So um things on people's minds concerning the update.

[Lithera]

So last night while doing some skirmish with my LS they were wondering as I haven't at least seen anything about what happens to the augments of the +2 versions of the relic gear if you go and reforge them. Also now with the skirmish update we will be getting +2 versions of the skirmish weapons I'm wondering if you will be able to use an augmented +1 when upgrading to a +2 or if you will have to reget a base skirmish, get the +1 ki and then upgrade it without augments and then once it is +2 augment it.

[Vasch]

After spending over 85m on V. Stones +2 to get DA+1/2, high mab, and other niche stats on all of my skirmish gear, I will straight up quit if that gets taken away with the next upgrade.

EDIT: Okay I won't quit but i'll be really really sad :<

[Lithera]

Yeah I don't think my LS wants to get trolled again by the rng if we have to get my husband another skirmish sword just so he can get a +2 after getting the augments he wanted on it for his blue. We did it so often that even the one person's mule has the dagger before it dropped. So many people augmented their relic gear so they could put it back on a slip and not take up space. Would be sad if you did all of that work and ended up losing the augment specially when for some gear the augment was the key factor in +2ing the piece in the 1st place.

[Arcto]

After spending over 85m on V. Stones +2 to get DA+1/2, high mab, and other niche stats on all of my skirmish gear, I will straight up quit if that gets taken away with the next upgrade.



Guess you might as well ub-sub now. Augments are wiped with the upgrade as per dev post today.

I am in the same boat. 2% DA on full Otronif/-4% Song casting time (I doubt i'd upgrade those anyways since it's just precast) for Gende/Hagondes Hat/Legs only thing I really dumped stones onto for MAB.

I think at this point i'd just work piece by piece doing only Otronif legs/hands/feet and Hagondes head/legs ONLY if the difference in updated gear is more than just extra stat vomit or MEva.

[Vasch]

I think most of the problem with the last skirmish was that the NQ and +1 stones were virtually useless. I can't count the number of PDT only augments or augments that were just plain terrible.

Also, I didn't actually see anything in the dev post about old augments, unless the NA one is different from what was posted on the JP one.

[detlef]

I think most of the problem with the last skirmish was that the NQ and +1 stones were virtually useless. I can't count the number of PDT only augments or augments that were just plain terrible.

Also, I didn't actually see anything in the dev post about old augments, unless the NA one is different from what was posted on the JP one.They weren't useless, they were great for Hagondes. Great is the wrong word though, less bad is probably more apt. What's the deal with 10 different possible augments for Hagondes? It made it far, far too difficult to get the augment you wanted.

[Camate]

Also, I didn't actually see anything in the dev post about old augments, unless the NA one is different from what was posted on the JP one.

Greetings,

There was indeed an error with the English text (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/40050-dev1181-Skirmish-Additions-and-Adjustments?p=493110#post493110) and it has just been corrected.

As stated above, the augments will not carry over after enhancing equipment.

[Demonjustin]

You must know Camate that there is a large majority of people who will be very angry about that. Will you be changing the manner in which we augment them at all? Will the augments be just as random as the previous set? If so, to be quite honest, I doubt I will bother with much of this gear, no matter how good it is the previous system was a complete pain that did nothing but anger people, by resetting the augments and making us do the same thing again you would be asking for nothing but trouble, so I really do hope you make the augments more similar to Delve or something such as that, as well as increase the Fragment obtainment rate.

[Rwolf]

Delve had a great system for upgrading with mezzotinting, I was genuinely excited because I thought between that and static augments we were finally getting away from random augment systems. Can you relay to the team that there is a lot more people who dislike random augmentation than like it. This is exactly why previous systems like Synergy item etching (Ebon/Furia/etc) never took off. It doesn't prolong content by randomizing. Players who have the gil will spam to get the highest augments, most will settle with halfway decent augments and the rest just won't care. It'll die down exactly like Skirmish 2 gear did.

With Delve, the system lasted longer because players were given a static goal. Making the intricate system of different upgrade paths more likely to be used. Now if only max rank gear had a different name, you would have had Trial of the Magians all over again and players would redo for different upgrades to maximize gear.

I know for myself at least, I would spend more time and effort in content (prolonging the life of it) if there is a static way to get a perfect product. I would rather spend more time farming to grind augments than hoping this next stack of stones finally gives me something decent.

[Byrth]

Greetings,

There was indeed an error with the English text (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/40050-dev1181-Skirmish-Additions-and-Adjustments?p=493110#post493110) and it has just been corrected.

As stated above, the augments will not carry over after enhancing equipment.

This obviously sucks. You should make the augments carry over but increase the ranges on the higher tier gear. That way there's still a force driving the new stone market but people aren't quite so pissed.

Before the obvious "It's unpossible" reply, it's totally possible. It's possible for them to keep changing the range and increasing it up to 513 stat for everything. It's just a matter of doing it, and they should do it in this case.

[evanwimbish]

It was already assumed we couldn't keep our auguments because they already did this once with cirdes------>yorcia

[Karbuncle]

If anyone honestly expected to be able to keep their augments after the Skirmish Weapons going from NQ > +1 didn't keep their augments, you only set yourself up for failure.

While i agree with byrth that it should be possible, Its borderline insanity to have assumed anything but them being erased.

[detlef]

If anyone honestly expected to be able to keep their augments after the Skirmish Weapons going from NQ > +1 didn't keep their augments, you only set yourself up for failure.

While i agree with byrth that it should be possible, Its borderline insanity to have assumed anything but them being erased.When were we informed that there was going to be more Skirmish?

[Karbuncle]

When were we informed that there was going to be more Skirmish?

Sometime months ago? When Skirmish was introduced? When they gave us plans for the future of Delve/Skirmish?

They also specifically said that Skirmish armor would be upgraded to 119. I'm not saying the day Skirmish II was released, but quite shortly after a dev post mentioned that armor would be upgradable same as the weapons. They also said Skirmish would be updated as a stepping stone for new Delve going forward (Meaning, They envisioned people using Skirmish sets to complete Delve, in tiers, Kinda like in XIV how they have Coil of Bahamut and Crystal tower).

Its been a long time since I've read this so its hard to give you a date.

[detlef]

Sometime months ago? When Skirmish was introduced? When they gave us plans for the future of Delve/Skirmish?

They also specifically said that Skirmish armor would be upgraded to 119. I'm not saying the day Skirmish II was released, but quite shortly after a dev post mentioned that armor would be upgradable same as the weapons. They also said Skirmish would be updated as a stepping stone for new Delve going forward (Meaning, They envisioned people using Skirmish sets to complete Delve, in tiers, Kinda like in XIV how they have Coil of Bahamut and Crystal tower).

Its been a long time since I've read this so its hard to give you a date.Yorcia Skirmish was introduced in the August update, making it about 6 months old. I looked through the Dev Tracker posts and the earliest posts referring to new Skirmish gear are here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/39659-Freshly-Picked-Vana-diel-3-Digest?p=489702&viewfull=1#post489702

and here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/39702-Upcoming-Version-Update-Announcement

If you can find an earlier reference where they say that they will be adding/upgrading Skirmish gear (or even make reference to a new Skirmish zone), I'd like to see it. I feel like very little warning was given.

[Lithera]

So that for both skirmish and relic augments? If so that really blows

[waithuhwhat]

Yorcia Skirmish was introduced in the August update, making it about 6 months old. I looked through the Dev Tracker posts and the earliest posts referring to new Skirmish gear are here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/39659-Freshly-Picked-Vana-diel-3-Digest?p=489702&viewfull=1#post489702

and here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/39702-Upcoming-Version-Update-Announcement

If you can find an earlier reference where they say that they will be adding/upgrading Skirmish gear (or even make reference to a new Skirmish zone), I'd like to see it. I feel like very little warning was given.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/39346-Future-Plans-for-Equipment

[Demonjustin]

So that for both skirmish and relic augments? If so that really blowsI would assume not for Relics, if so... Well currency prices are sure to fall again...

[Selindrile]

This is pretty painful, I blew about 5-10 Mil getting my augments to where I wanted them, I pity the people who lost so much more.

[detlef]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/39346-Future-Plans-for-EquipmentGood catch. Still, that's only about a month ago. My main point is that we haven't known all along that Skirmish Armor was going to be upgraded; we've only known recently. Not since "sometime months ago."

[Karbuncle]

I believe i remember it being said before that post. But that post does line up with what I remember reading when I was thinking back on it.

Regardless, I'm sure more than a sane amount of +1/2 Stones have been sold in the last month or so at a steady pace, and I'm sure those voices are among the ones complaining as well, While not my original concern, the point stands, not a one should have expected augments to carry over, regardless of the given time frame.

I know its rather troubling, but considering the nature of the current gear ladder content they're going for, one should just expect the armor/weapons we're given to be all but temporary, such is the glaring flaw with this type of power-creep design model.

[detlef]

I know its rather troubling, but considering the nature of the current gear ladder content they're going for, one should just expect the armor/weapons we're given to be all but temporary, such is the glaring flaw with this type of power-creep design model.Yeah, the point of my posts was certainly not to call you out or anything, I just feel that we weren't really prepared for it. Part of the reason people thought Skirmish gear was "safe" because it is niche gear. I didn't expect a new version of Skirmish that would erase all those augments, but maybe I should have.

[Kote]

I kinda stopped feeding stones when I realised the boosts were on the.. meh.. side of things.. Although the little +acc, +Atk, -pdt was nice for what it was. I only really feed stones into Hogendaz for Mab and kept getting +Pet &/or +Avatar mods, then stopped doing it..

I never spent feeding heavily into weapons one or two +1 gave me decent mods. Now that weapons and armor are going up one level, I'm kinda glad I never tried to invest all that $$$ into the Ah. To an extent the only thing I really liked was that sheild mod I got from a +2 stone.

I don't know what the iLev on weapon +2 or armor +1 will rise to. I'll probably only feed rocks into weapons, sheild and as needed on gear. I'm just glad I never decided to toss any of them out yet.

[FaeQueenCory]

You must know Camate that there is a large majority of people who will be very angry about that. Will you be changing the manner in which we augment them at all? Will the augments be just as random as the previous set? If so, to be quite honest, I doubt I will bother with much of this gear, no matter how good it is the previous system was a complete pain that did nothing but anger people, by resetting the augments and making us do the same thing again you would be asking for nothing but trouble, so I really do hope you make the augments more similar to Delve or something such as that, as well as increase the Fragment obtainment rate.
From your lips to their ears...
Dear... GOD...
I randomly joined a PUG a week ago... got 2 +2 stones... decided, "well I doubt they're gonna 119 the weapons and shield... so... I'll sell one and drop the other on my shield"
Very first time augmenting it...
-4PDT Shield Mastery+3
0_0
I ain't EVER gonna get that again...
It would be nice if they allowed to maintain current augments (it's not like it will make the content any more dead/alive) by paying an extra bayld fee.... The programming for that shouldn't be *too* difficult... BUT it might very well be impossible to do due to the way the random augmenting works... Then again, for all we know the +1 for the weapons (which looks as though it's the EXACT same thing for this 119 upgrade) also utilized the random upgrade process, but had the variables all zero'd out.
(for those out of the programming knowhow, basically when you'd "upgrade" the item, what you're doing in this scenario is also running the augmenting script wherein any and all augments have a variable range of 0-0 which would translate into being wiped, thus no augments. If it works in that manner, or in some similar manner, then... it could actually be adjusted to keep the current augments on the items.... HOWEVER... what is more likely.... it's destroying the traded item and spawning a brand new "+1" item. Pretty sure that's how the magian trials work for the relic and empy armors... especially now that all augment text is "second page'd"... yet empyrean gear has no second page, but is "augmented".)

Especially given the economy for +2 stones... it would be nice if more than a middling amount of fragments dropped.... Especially given how there's very little longevity to the skirmish content: you do it a few time, suddenly you have all the gear you want/need and all the wings you need to get any other that might not have dropped... and the only reason to do the content again is to farm stones for the augments... which after a few times... you either have nothing or you have a decent augment. (though for the pet job gear.... yeah... you ain't ever gonna get the one you want.)
And now that there's a third tier... yorcia skirmish is gonna be as dead as cirdas and rala. (at least with the clarification that the weapons are getting 119'd those two will have a few shouts for the first week of the update.)
This is especially true cause now the third skirmish can give you more than just armor from the wings that drop.

[AyinDygra]

From a programming perspective, there shouldn't be a problem with saving the augments and adding them to the new gear.

Right now, the gear has *some* setting that tells the system what augments the gear has, otherwise, they'd be wiped out every time you zoned and the gear re-loaded in the system.
That setting could be checked and saved, then added to the upgraded gear.

The ONLY way I see it not working, is if the new gear does not have the option to have the same augments. (there would be no equivalent setting to add to the gear to "keep" the augment)
In my opinion, this should have been thought of in advance to keep the system "backwards compatible", so the same augments exist in the system, even if the new gear could never randomly gain the old augments in the new upgrade system.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter. I have no personal stake in these, since I just came back in the welcome back campaign after having been gone for a year, so I never got the gear in question to begin with. It just makes logical sense!

[svengalis]

After spending over 85m on V. Stones +2 to get DA+1/2, high mab, and other niche stats on all of my skirmish gear, I will straight up quit if that gets taken away with the next upgrade.

EDIT: Okay I won't quit but i'll be really really sad :<

why? did you not get what you wanted in the end? i dont get peoples deal with spending gil to get what you wanted and then getting mad cause SE gives us updates negating everything you done up to this point. you have known for many months they were going in this direction and they have been doing it since last june so nothing at this point should surprise you anymore.

[svengalis]

I kinda stopped feeding stones when I realised the boosts were on the.. meh.. side of things.. Although the little +acc, +Atk, -pdt was nice for what it was. I only really feed stones into Hogendaz for Mab and kept getting +Pet &/or +Avatar mods, then stopped doing it..

I never spent feeding heavily into weapons one or two +1 gave me decent mods. Now that weapons and armor are going up one level, I'm kinda glad I never tried to invest all that $$$ into the Ah. To an extent the only thing I really liked was that sheild mod I got from a +2 stone.

I don't know what the iLev on weapon +2 or armor +1 will rise to. I'll probably only feed rocks into weapons, sheild and as needed on gear. I'm just glad I never decided to toss any of them out yet.

i stopped doing it because the price was to much but not only that it seem every month SE adds near gear that makes old gear obsolete. they told us they were moving in this direction so i dont know why this surprises anyone.

[Louispv]

It's an item level game. All of your gear is worthless every few months when better shit is added. You knew this since Item Level was added. Even if you didn't get hagondes +1 gear and it wiped your augments wasting all your money, you'd be getting an entirely different item with higher stats that makes you never use hagondes and wastes all your money. There is no argument to make here about you not knowing this, you've seen it happen a dozen times.

Especially since you already knew skirmish gear lost their augments, since they've done this before.

[detlef]

It's an item level game. All of your gear is worthless every few months when better shit is added. You knew this since Item Level was added. Even if you didn't get hagondes +1 gear and it wiped your augments wasting all your money, you'd be getting an entirely different item with higher stats that makes you never use hagondes and wastes all your money. There is no argument to make here about you not knowing this, you've seen it happen a dozen times.

Especially since you already knew skirmish gear lost their augments, since they've done this before.Skirmish weapons yes, Skirmish armor no. There was no indication that Skirmish gear would be replaced. Even if a higher level item came out, a lot of people logically assumed that Skirmish armor would retain its niche status with -pdt and several unique stats. Maybe Delve introduces higher ilvl armor, or maybe a revamp of an old event. You would have had to predict that a new event would replace all the niche uses that Skirmish gear offered. Basically, you'd have to have predicted that there would be new Skirmish specifically to really say that we should have seen it coming. And I don't think there was much indication until recently about that. I don't think people had an inkling that there'd be another zone, even the dat miners.

So I think it's fair to say that even with item levels, it was hard to foresee Skirmish gear being replaced so quickly.

[Demonjustin]

So I think it's fair to say that even with item levels, it was hard to foresee Skirmish gear being replaced so quickly.I don't feel this was all to 'quickly' outdated, 6 months is not a bad span of life for gear, it is annoying and I agree with you none the less.

[Selindrile]

Felt quick to me.

[detlef]

I don't feel this was all to 'quickly' outdated, 6 months is not a bad span of life for gear, it is annoying and I agree with you none the less.Yeah, it just felt like it was niche gear that would survive, so long as it wasn't replaced by a +1 version of itself. Which is exactly what happened, unfortunately.

[Eaglestrike]

Are people really complaining that ilvl 113 gear when there's ilvl 115, 117 and 119 gear out already, ended up getting replaced?

[Demonjustin]

Are people really complaining that ilvl 113 gear when there's ilvl 115, 117 and 119 gear out already, ended up getting replaced?Replacement isn't an issue, it's the fact it's a direct upgrade to +1 and yet we are losing our augments when they could be kept.

[Damane]

Replacement isn't an issue, it's the fact it's a direct upgrade to +1 and yet we are losing our augments when they could be kept.

^ this, alot of people used alot gil and/or stones to get their desired augments, and need to restart from scratch just for some little "stat vomit" upgrade to ilvl 119. It kind of insta killed Skirmish 3.0 for me unless the augments become substantionally more stronger then the ilvl 113 vesion.

[Ravenmore]

Its not like the gear is rare so you could keep the augments you have now while trying for better on the +1 versions so that really lessen the blow for me. The weapons are where it is really at so should be happy that it should be a easy event for a 119 weapon that comes really close to delve boss weapons.