Would you play on a pre-abyssea/adoulin stand alone server?

[Silex]

I often hear people (not everyone, but a big chunk) talk about how great the old FFXI was. Usually CoP era, but certainly pre-Abyssea/Adoulin. I was just wondering how many people would be interested in playing on a server (if SE came round to the idea) that had just the older expansions on?

Maybe it's 'Nostalgia Vision', I don't know. All I can say is I didn't start the game until Abyssea was already out and I regret not having started sooner if the game really was as good as people claim back then.

If SE decided to put out a single server in addition to what's already available that didn't have Abyssea/Adoulin added features would you be interested or not? Is the idea itself worthy of consideration or just being said by a vocal minority?

This came to mind as I was reading the FFXIV forums, it seems there are a lot of people there who are trying to mold that game into becoming a FFXI v2.0

Here's an example of one of the posts there:


I've said for a long, long time now; I'd subscribe and play for years to ffxi IF a server was made with the old rules, old loot system, old hnm pop system, old leveling system, and everyone on said server was level 1.

You know, a basic roll back to the release of the game, stagger out expansions on the same schedule over the next decade. Yeah, it's hard core and not for everyone, but I'd sign up in a heartbeat for that!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/145003-Return-to-FFXI?p=1862359&viewfull=1#post1862359

[Valhoola]

nope i rather have it like it is because i can XP and not waste a whole day doing nothing. the game is still pretty much the same but the Gov & FoV is what messed up the party dynamics, lv30 entry for abyssea now they added trust NPC's like GW1 so you never have to group even though grouping is way faster still.

too bad FFXIV went far away from FFXI and turned into a wow clone. my charcater i had for 3 years is sitting on the back burner since i hate that style of game may never be used again.

[AppropriateName5786]

You didn't miss anything, OP.

[Vivivivi]

Not interested, personally.

[lllen]

I started and grinded my way to 75 on Rdm, Blm and Blue under the old game. It was hard, grinding and sometimes I was ready to give it up I was so frustrated. I hung in there and Campaign came out...a way to get exp without grinding in parties (esp if you were in Die-namis omg the exp loss.)

When Abyssea came out it was like freedom a breath of fresh air, maybe it was a little overboard but to tell the truth we were loosing people left and right up until Abyssea. Abyssea pulled a lot of people back to the game and changed the dynamics. It had to be done, the old game was extremely time consuming, and took for ever to get where you wanted to go, endgame to get the good gear. To get good gear ole way: Then it was 2 nights a week in Dynamis Shell, 2 nights a week in sky shell, not counting Sea, Limbus, Salvage and Nysul Isle. There was COP which took forever, and all the missions to get to sea and sky.

Adoulin came out and it changed the game again, I was mixed up for a while but I have a handle on it and can see the forest for the trees (or the other way around). Today's world is different from the world 11 years ago rl and in game. To start with we are 11 years older, if you were 18 you are now 29, which means rl has changed for 99% of us. Today's game has something for all groups, I can hop on and do content for an hour or I can be on all day. There is gear you need to do hard fights to get, but there is also good gear that you can get without having to be "geared for god" to get into the Party.

The content has expanded and the game is now what you make of it. It is time the old people quit complaining about the new and building up how the ole days were better. We worked our butts off to get there in the ole days but the world changes in rl and gaming but was it a better way in the ole days...no it was hard, grinding, actually boring once the newness wore off...

[Blah]

I'm sorry but you should call those people out for being bald-faced liars, while it was true pre-aby and that was good times it wasn't THAT good, I can't even bring myself to play where there isn't a fov or gov manual and the parties? Pfft most were still always with the "be (job/ support job) or you can't join" crap with EVERYTHING, leveling, NM fights, missions freaking everything. I think people are "forgetting" they were all about that back then. At least for the most part that elitist garbage is gone because now if they try it just leave them high and dry in the city yelling for hours lol.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I was just wondering how many people would be interested in playing on a server (if SE came round to the idea) that had just the older expansions on?

Let's see if I can avoid being my usual petty and condescending self...

With only certain exceptions (EXP per kill comes to mind), most of the "new content" that self-described old-timers decry is optional. You don't have to enter Abyssea or Adoulin if you choose not to. In fact, the devs went to great lengths to ensure you could still reach level 99 without any expansion packs or add-ons.

Perhaps the loudest complaint is about the changes to Chains of Promathia, specifically the removal of area level caps. But people are (willfully?) forgetting a few things there...


Nobody actually hung out in those areas. Nobody went to those areas unless they absolutely had to. In fact, i suspect a great many CoP quests were never completed by many players simply because completion involved deviating too far from where you were required to go for a mission (e.g. why visit the belfry in Cape Riverne?)
The areas were specifically designed to discourage people hanging out. EXP rates out there were halved for those whose true level was higher than the area's cap, to discourage people from grinding to 75.
As the caps were removed, tougher monsters were added for those players who still sought a challenge from those areas. So you're still free to find "a challenge" on the way to such-and-such battlefield.


Level caps were removed from battlefields themselves, but substantially similar battles still have level caps. Chains of Promathia mission battles are uncapped, but ENMs are still capped if you still want to worry about animas and such.

And of course none of this precludes having a low-level job set aside specifically for trying to go through these on "hard mode."

All in all, I'd say the hardest thing about doing things "the way it used to be" is finding other, like-minded individuals. People did things the old way at the time because it was the only way, putting up with it because they had to. Now that the compulsion is gone you'll find nobody can be bothered.

Having an "old skool" server won't fix that problem, either. Joining that server would still be a voluntary act on the part of the players, and the end result is that you simply will not find anywhere near enough players to justify an entire server for.


This came to mind as I was reading the FFXIV forums

Fantastic example. I was in Ul'dah when they took down Balmung 1.0. 1.0 was kept live and basically free-to-play after the final ARR event, for those people who still enjoyed doing things "the old way." The servers would be kept up for as long as demand persisted, with the understanding that, now that the ARR event was over, any new progress wouldn't be carried over to 2.0.

I don't believe it lasted six weeks.

[Bukota]

No, I would not.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I hung in there and Campaign came out...a way to get exp without grinding in parties (esp if you were in Die-namis omg the exp loss.)

OMG that was beautiful! I still remember the joy of discovering a way to get EXP for my lolPLD at a time when merit points parties were DD- and support-only. After all, once you no longer had to worry about leveling up out of the sweet spot for a particular EXP camp, you were better off chaining T's and VT's rather than the slow grind of IT's, which generally meant dedicated tanks and dedicated healers had a lonely time past 70.

But lo, suddenly I could tank all the things, without the stress of having a linkshell leader screaming at me about having to hold hate off the MNK spamming Final Heaven!

And then I got enough Allied Notes for a full set of Iron Ram armor and started wondering why the heck I was still grinding my face off for "lotting rights" on Valor Armor to begin with...

[detlef]

If you were on a server like that, you'd never be able to get a group for anything and you'd be stuck soloing... Except there would be less low-man content for you to do.

Besides, you'd have to carefully consider at what point in the game's history you want to freeze time. FFXI's glory days probably occurred during ToAU, but think about it... Double alliance Dynamis with horrid drop rates and "sponsors," not to mention the BLMs would die so much they'd have to go back to Puddings to build up their XP buffer. Twice-a-week Limbus to fight Omega and get double head drops. 7-man Salvage with abyssmal drop rates. Einherjar where everybody needs to have all 9 feathers to fight Odin. Not to mention Sky and Sea with 15 minute ??? repops... Man, what a nightmare.

It was fun times, but it was fun because of the people and the fact that you probably had more time to devote to the game than you do now.

[Feary]

no. i wouldnt need to go back and play then, as i had already completed my goal and felt beat the content. all that was left was relic or mythic. i had maats cap and experienced all the jobs. i would do dynamis because i miss it but then again how hard would it be to make a decent group.

if s.e continued to develop the content under that model. maybe. however we've already been spoiled and going back to that would just make ppl quit.

[Raydeus]

@OP
The only way anyone would want to move to a server like that is if time travel was also included in the package.

Because it isn't just about the mechanics alone, but about how the community functioned at the time. That is why Abyssea was so devastating to the community because of how much it disrupted all of the systems that maintained player interaction as strong as it used to be.

So to answer your question no, I would not play in a server like that unless there was a guarantee (which no one could ever make) that the community would go back to the way it was 6 years ago.

PS > Although I do feel bad for the players that will never get to experience how good XI was back then. I mean it's still a better game than most ¨modern¨ WoW clones out there right now, but the experience is nowhere near as good as it used to be. /shrug

[bungiefanNA]

I would never want to go back to before Abyssea. It took me 8 years to get one job to 75 under the old system, when I had more time to play. Campaign allowed me to finish that up, but that was still slow going. I only ever got to do Dynamis about 4 times before Abyssea, and 2 Einherjar runs. I have more access to content now, and a server going back to that would erase that.

[Doombringer]

i'm reading a lot of no.

i'm gonna echo that no.

admittedly, ilvl feels shoehorned, and i hated voidwatch with a passion. but in general i'm enjoying the game.

abyssea may have been "too easy" but all that really DID was facilitate players broadening themselves. you could pick up new jobs, and gear them competently in a way that wouldn't have been possible before. (at least not for most of us)

delve may have been "too hard" at one point, but i actually enjoyed it. having something that required coordination, knowing that your performance mattered. it actually got me to sit up straight and turn off the T.V. while playing. not to mention that plasm is probably the fairest loot system we've ever had.

wildskeepers loot system is, taken on it's own a complete clusterfuck of frustration and woe. but that was eventually mitigated between the library and RoE quests.

and now you can even PICK your difficulty in the newest content. (i guess that solves the issue of aby to easy, delve to hard?)

games not perfect, but has it ever been? we call the current endgame restrictive, only a handful of jobs are useful. but has that ever NOT been the case? you must remember "loldrg" or "lolpup" hell, a lot of jobs couldn't even get into XP parties, let along endgame. at least now you can easily level other jobs, and if you really insist on using your beautiful unique snowflake of a job, you can just choose to turn down the difficulty?

we accuse groups of "requiring the drops from the content to do the content" but that's simply not true. your corsair doesn't need to have oatixurs to do tojil. lest we forget your monk never got to do anything in sky except chi cannon anyway, and you can sure as hell bet that if sky had been instanced, they would have just been left behind.



the issues with the community are the same that they've always been. if anything the GAME has gotten better.

[Crevox]

No I would not

[Leocon]

I'm inclined to agree with the whole 'no' brigade. The only thing I miss from those days is seeing lots of new players, but surprisingly I've been seeing a few new faces running around the starter cities over the last few weeks. Sure they aren't a slew of new members like you used to see dying all over Valkurm, but damn it's nice to see some level 50 no subs (man, who'd've thought that day would come lol) running around and checking every NPC out of curiosity. Instead of a "Glory Day Server", I'd rather see SE devote some money to an advertising campaign, but as many have pointed out in the past, the game supposedly isn't "in a state to accommodate new people."

Maybe it isn't, I personally wouldn't know since I've been playing non-stop since 2004, but I'm sure as hell willing to bring in new blood to my social shell and show them the ropes and make new friends.

[Ravenmore]

The reason a lot of people look back fondly on the "old days" is because the game was a lot harder back then and this difficulty forced people to team-up with complete strangers, and stay in parties for hours and hours. This led to you getting to know new people all the time, and talking with them at length. This created a sense of global community, you might be XPing etc. with people from allover the world. The only exception back in the old days was Bst, which you could solo on, but all other jobs required you to engage in teamwork. Regardless of how we feel about some of nightmare LFP times (ten hours flag up in dunes anyone?) the truth is that the rigid and challenging nature of the old game forced people to develop comradeship in adversity, and this led to lasting friendships and a server community. This existed until 2010 May~ when Aby arrived, things changed very fast after that, with FC's and Dom Ops. Trust NPC "army-of-one" options with a player and a train of NPCs running after him, is the coup-de-grace on the old game, the killshot. I see lots of people competing for crabs and flys and stuff, with their private Trust armies lol, when pre-Trust we could have just teamed up and not competed for the available sparks mobs. I haven't even unlocked any Trusts and don't want to, because I have my fellowship NPC from seven years ago and he rocks. But anyway I never use my NPC for farming sparks because I am always ready to team up with other players so we don't compete for the same handful of sparks mobs.
Re; the "time warp" idea in the OP, it would not work today. Most new FFXI players have got used to the casual and easymode nature of post-2010 FFXI, and would be horrified if they saw how the game was back in say 2006. And as mentioned above, the old game was teamwork because there was no alternative way to overcome obstacles, whereas now you can't even get people to drop their Trusts for ten minutes to farm some sparks in party. I'm not really saying the game is better or worse now (lets not go there), but it is a completely different game, the polar opposite, and most new players would hate the sort of rigid stratified heirarchy that the old game consisted of.


No they only did endgame with LSes and you only did missions with pugs out of sheer desperation. We had just the same crap we have now with need XYZ job or gtfo. Even grinding merits needed the top DDs with great gear or you weren't getting that one rdm and brd that was seeking and many a brd would drop party if you weren't hitting at least 20k a hour or if you broke the chain to many times for their liking. So you spent a massive amount of time standing around doing NOTHING.

Franky it wasn't no where near as hard as you seem to remember. Just like to day a couple days after new content was released the perfect strat and set up was posted on BG and if you followed it to a T you got the win(good luck fighting the RNG for drops and lots). Before the easy mode you are referring to came around every bit of HNM or endgame content was so well tread that the hardest part wasn't falling asleep while you waited on people to gather.

Once you understood the very simple system FFXI worked on it was child's play of kite and chip or zerg. I did the old endgame crap far more then I want to remember it was a mess of boredom and some how I convinced my self I was having fun.

[lllen]

Detlef you are so right, it was the people esp if you were on skype that drew us back to the game day/night after day/night. I had forgotten the great Puddings, omg I lived on those things. I was still doing them when Abyssea came out with the Strength weapons and so mad when the dd's would come in on Firesday to kill them.

[Imakun]

Only thing I miss about "those times" are my friends and my Linkshell. If I could wave a magic wand and bring all of them back, it wouldn't matter what type of XI we'd play.
So to answer your question, no. I would not go back to "old XI" just for sake of how it worked. It was all about friends, LS mates and community in general.

[WoW]

Well, I can recall the the old HNM spawn system and six man parties (These are just a few events that I have participated in). The game mechanics are still the same, with the exception of the stagger system (Which did not affect much imo). I still have friends and will occasionally join 6 man parties; but from my personal experience, ffxi is the same game it always was (Macro mashing), just less time consuming. I mean, a few friends quit, but I made some new ones.

Honestly, I cannot relate to the "well back in the day talk," it all feels the same to me. "Shrugs"

[Ravenmore]

Yes you just illustrated exactly what I was saying. It was harder, harder to get xp parties of the same level with appropriate jobs of the same level. Harder to travel to camps etc. Even reraise scrolls and warps scrolls cost a small fortune in CP. Mobs gave less xp. Jugpets and automatons died in around eight hits. You had to skill up super-slowly on steelshells, and hope that the rest of the group would heal you while you skilled up. There was no /dnc so you were f*ked if you wanted to solo on most jobs except Bst/whm. And if you were Bst75 in 2004 (I was) it meant soloing every single XP from level 1-75, delevelling more often than levelling. No empress bands, no book page xp bonuses. I define this as "harder" than the game is today. Off you go and tell me I'm wrong again.

it wasn't harder it was time consuming. You paid SE to be bored. Yes you are wrong and falling into the same trap over and over thinking time sink=difficulty.

[Leocon]

I'm of the same mind as WoW heh. When SoA first released it just felt like the old days when CoP came out. Brand new zones to explore with plenty of mobs that could wipe the floor with you. Then I got to know the lay of the land, learned the new mob's aggro/link patterns and started gathering new gear and becoming stronger. The iLvl system was definitely a shock to the game, but since they've kept the cap at 119 and added more content to fit that cap it's started to balance back out again.

I still run around with the same group of friends I've had for years now; lots have left but the ones still around still enjoy the game as much as we did 3, 5... jeez, 10 years ago now; hell even more so now that we can get more done in the same amount of time, or even less time than back in the old days. And spamming the same old content is no different than sitting in Qufim killing the same old mobs for 3+ hours a day, waiting around Aht Urghan for besieged to start or assault runs to form, standing by forts waiting for armies to decide to attack. It's still the same game as far as I'm concerned, just far less populated per server; hence my previous wish for them to promote the game through adverts again heh.

[Hercule]

Nonsense. First of all, you are mincing words just to pick a scrap. You really are just splitting semantics for no reason. In the old game we had to have level 30 and level 60 armor sets including accessories, in moghouse, just so we could do capped battles. I had like five jobs gear at level 30 etc. sitting in my MH so I could do capped events. That IS NOT a time sink, that is HARDER than the current system in which you don't need any cap gear at all. It is EASIER ( ***LESS HARD***) to simply do an event in your 99 stuff and you are scaled down automatically. In the past it was HARDER because it was LESS EASY. EASY AND HARD ARE OPPOSITES. I had like Seers+1 sets and stupid energy earrings+1 cluttering up my MH so I could cap to 30 in a hurry. It was bloody stupid. It wasnt a question of time sink at all, it was a question of it was not easy, like it is now.
And that is just one example. Xping in dunes, taking the ferry because we didn't have waypoints or HP warps back then & not everyone had the OP warp so you waited for them to ride the ferry, not having a whm with raise at that level of course, but also not having the option of getting reraise from a magical flying book positioned conveniently near your camp. Also refresh/regen from book. Also lvl 1 hat with regen/refresh/movement speed/skill-up bonus. We didn't have those things back then, but we do post 2010 and it made the game EASIER.
Airships. Waiting for them. Missing them. Sitting on them. Now you just Aby-warp or waypoint warp or homepoint warp. Easier. Less hard.
At higher levels not having a Whm with Erase because that spell cost 5m gil so that meant you often spent the whole Spider Parties permanently slowed because you couldn't get Erase. IT IS MUCH EASIER NOW, I.E. LESS HARD, because we can get Erase cast on us because it is dirt cheap to buy and gil is more freely available for WHMs to obtain. In the old game most people I knew were broke except for my Bst LS, I was farming Haku Eyes on my Bst, but hardly anyone else was farming them except other Bsts because the tougher eyes were hard to solo. People were broke, and they constantly needed help with AF coffer keys and things like that. Now you can solo it all. That makes it easier = less hard. And thats not to mention spending hours building a party, travelling to camp ( WITH NO SPECTRAL JIGS!) and people dying on the way because the poor long-suffering Whm couldn't keep them all sneaked/invisibled all the time, get to camp and the tank immediately D/cs permanently (and no level-appropriate tanks LFP and ........... no Level-synch system!) so its all over and you got like 200 xp total! Nowadays XPing is much EASIER - MEANING LESS HARD - MEANING THAT THE OLD GAME WAS HARDER.

I will draw you a crayon diagram next time ^^
:p

Edit ; removed profanity!


I completely agree with what you say, and long time ago I suggested to SE how they could (maybe) save "at least" the old HNMLS end game part of this game on a little update without breaking any of the new content:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18977-Suggestion-How-to-reintroduce-HNMLS-gameplay-in-FFXI-Lv99%E2%80%8F

Now, no one understand that the difficulty is making you proud of what you've done in the game, and nowadays no one really care, of anything exept him self like a solo game, the real teamwork is dead because no one want back the boring part of "teamwork" but if you don't take the boring part, you also don't get the euphoric part... except your small personal goals...
That no one really care exept yourself.

I will not repaeat all we speak in my old thread but up to you to have a look if you want :)

[Silex]

Thanks everyone for the input. It's good to get a better picture of the pre-Abyssea era.

It's interesting to see a collective "No" here, yet there are still many players who have migrated to FFXIV I see saying the opposite. Maybe they are only remembering the few good times they had?

[Randnum]

It's complex to answer but I'm gonna be the one that says yes, with hopefully clear reasons why.

SE has done a lot of quality of life improvements to FFXI since Abyssea/Adoulin.

Most of those are not directly connected to Abyssea/Adoulin. They could have been done without. The joy of FFXI to most is working together with people, often strangers, to achieve a goal.

One of the most enjoyable experiences for many people was Walk Of Echoes back when it was good. There's a specific point where it was good. Around when the level cap was 85, the lower walks were good. You took like 30 people, threw them at a horrifying thing, and died a lot. It LOOKED like Zombie fighting but you actually had to strategize even that, to a point, because most walks would still be failed if you did THAT wrong.

Most people with 'nostalgia' are remembering the FUN part of 'teaming up with strangers to do something hard but not utterly punishing or blatantly timesinked'. The problem with your question is that you have two types of people that answer. People who remember all the stupid timesinks and bad design that has only been fixed SINCE then and go 'God no never again' and people who either didn't do most of that or had a way around (static groups, just lucky, desirable job) and go 'eh' because they don't see what the fuss is about either way.

Campaign was fun because everyone could do something and it have a serious meaning. You could have 20-30 people in one fight and everyone contribute and then get rewarded. Walks were similar. Magian trials are another, and for those who had the patience either with content gating or the occasional failure due to bad players, things like Salvage and Nyzul Isle could be fun.

The nostalgia you're seeing is probably just from the fact that with ALL the old content more or less invalidated or super easy now, we lost both the good and the bad. SE spread players pretty thin, then focused us back on one spot but a lot of people wistfully look back at the old and want it to be difficult again and possibly relevant again because they can remember the fun they had.

But those who say no are still absolutely right if you are talking about timewarping the whole game back to that era because there's just too much stuff that SE has fixed since then, that makes it less hell. One simple example.

The ISNM battle Compliments to the Chef in Talacca Cove is fairly fun to do, not too hellish or slow to get to from Nashmau, easily accessible for anyone with Imperial Standing, and decently rewarding in the scope of a level 75 or 80 era game (drops certain scrolls, good Chocobo eggs, some crafting stuff).

This fight however requires people to find their way to Nashmau whenever they want to do it which is not something most people could randomly go 'oh sure I'll be right there' back in those days. Today, it'd be a homepoint warp to Nashmau and about 6 minutes run, then a little over an hour of fighting to do six fights, no one really has to leave empty handed, nothing.

You could do this with strangers. Decent ones, even better. Friends and one or two strangers? Perfect. But it wasn't easily accessible then and it isn't relevant now. If you offered me a server where I could should shout {ISNM}75{Talacca Cove}3/6 and be fighting in half hour or less, I'd take it.

[Byrth]

No.

No no no.

[Hercule]

Thanks everyone for the input. It's good to get a better picture of the pre-Abyssea era.

It's interesting to see a collective "No" here, yet there are still many players who have migrated to FFXIV I see saying the opposite. Maybe they are only remembering the few good times they had?

Nope, the problem on this official SE forum, is people who are posting, are not representative of all the FFXI community, and all the time, when someone come here and say "FFXI was good before" this product from them a big and massive "raised shields" and even sometimes they coming agressive, but i really don't think these people represent the real old core of FFXI players, comparing old FFXI to actual FFXI is like comparing Dark Soul to Skyrim, its 2 differents experiences, but here the gentile won :3

[Doombringer]

Thanks everyone for the input. It's good to get a better picture of the pre-Abyssea era.

It's interesting to see a collective "No" here, yet there are still many players who have migrated to FFXIV I see saying the opposite. Maybe they are only remembering the few good times they had?

well obviously the people who quit this game to play some other competing game do not like this game as much as the people still paying to play it.


as for hercules silent majority, they've either moved on (as i suggested) or don't exist. i also doubt that they're any kind of "majority". anybody with an active FFXI subscription has access to these forums.

a lot of people also seem to ignore that the game was in decline long before abyssea.

some people liked campaign because it made leveling solo feasible, but the WOTG mission structure is a massive clusterfuck which somehow managed to take SE years to FINISH, and the de-ranking turned a lot of people off. it added 4 HNMs and a set of assault style missions that you generally couldn't access because you were a member of the wrong nation, and just plain not much else. most of the "new" zones were reskins with nothing worthwhile in them and a few new walls put in to make navigating them as difficult as possible. (to be fair abyssea is all reskins, but at least there's stuff to do in them, and they're not needlessly convoluted. conflux's respect the players time...)

almost everyone i knew quit during WOTG (including myself, though i never let my account lapse)

abyssea brought SOME of us back.

[Ravenmore]

Nonsense. First of all, you are mincing words just to pick a scrap. You really are just splitting semantics for no reason. In the old game we had to have level 30 and level 60 armor sets including accessories, in moghouse, just so we could do capped battles. I had like five jobs gear at level 30 etc. sitting in my MH so I could do capped events. That IS NOT a time sink, that is HARDER than the current system in which you don't need any cap gear at all. It is EASIER ( ***LESS HARD***) to simply do an event in your 99 stuff and you are scaled down automatically. In the past it was HARDER because it was LESS EASY. EASY AND HARD ARE OPPOSITES. I had like Seers+1 sets and stupid energy earrings+1 cluttering up my MH so I could cap to 30 in a hurry. It was bloody stupid. It wasnt a question of time sink at all, it was a question of it was not easy, like it is now.
And that is just one example. Xping in dunes, taking the ferry because we didn't have waypoints or HP warps back then & not everyone had the OP warp so you waited for them to ride the ferry, not having a whm with raise at that level of course, but also not having the option of getting reraise from a magical flying book positioned conveniently near your camp. Also refresh/regen from book. Also lvl 1 hat with regen/refresh/movement speed/skill-up bonus. We didn't have those things back then, but we do post 2010 and it made the game EASIER.
Airships. Waiting for them. Missing them. Sitting on them. Now you just Aby-warp or waypoint warp or homepoint warp. Easier. Less hard.
At higher levels not having a Whm with Erase because that spell cost 5m gil so that meant you often spent the whole Spider Parties permanently slowed because you couldn't get Erase. IT IS MUCH EASIER NOW, I.E. LESS HARD, because we can get Erase cast on us because it is dirt cheap to buy and gil is more freely available for WHMs to obtain. In the old game most people I knew were broke except for my Bst LS, I was farming Haku Eyes on my Bst, but hardly anyone else was farming them except other Bsts because the tougher eyes were hard to solo. People were broke, and they constantly needed help with AF coffer keys and things like that. Now you can solo it all. That makes it easier = less hard. And thats not to mention spending hours building a party, travelling to camp ( WITH NO SPECTRAL JIGS!) and people dying on the way because the poor long-suffering Whm couldn't keep them all sneaked/invisibled all the time, get to camp and the tank immediately D/cs permanently (and no level-appropriate tanks LFP and ........... no Level-synch system!) so its all over and you got like 200 xp total! Nowadays XPing is much EASIER - MEANING LESS HARD - MEANING THAT THE OLD GAME WAS HARDER.

I will draw you a crayon diagram next time ^^
:p

Edit ; removed profanity!

The only level cap content that people needed that gear for was missions and a couple of ENM/BCNM that very few did why do you think those drops were worth anything. The gil from the drops could be made easier and faster then giving up your MH space and waiting on a run or finding like minded people to form a static with(since they needed bst or nin to do them the way that was easiest). All the level caps did was make it more of a chore for the people that missed the rush of CoP putting them further behind those that got in on the rush and a convenient excuse for people NOT to help with those missions or fights. Again you act like time sink(gil farming) made the game hard, it did not as you just pointed out the reason why people just started to avoid mobs like spiders unless they where the only mobs open.


Smart players avoided the dunes altogether and it was faster to solo EPs or duo DC/EMs right past the dunes instead of putting up with the time sink of WAITING. Unless they said they had a Power level which was common. Travel time is nothing but time sink, nothing hard about buying oils and powders off the AH and running right past mobs. Not very many true sight and sound mobs till you get to the 60s and then you are exping off them. I know I did it 3 times for jueno mules from the starter cities.

The people that you knew were just lazy(can't blame them to much gil grinding is boring). Silk thread and beehive chips were the go to money maker that everyone knew about. I funded my SH and sniper rings off of those took about a week of farming, nothing hard game wise killing too weaks but staying awake did pose a bit of challenge and if that is why it's hard then that is just bad game design and showed that all FFXI was back then was a EQ clone.

Not trying to attack you on this but please break up the wall of text. It makes it hard to read.

[WoW]

Nope, the problem on this official SE forum, is people who are posting, are not representative of all the FFXI community, and all the time, when someone come here and say "FFXI was good before" this product from them a big and massive "raised shields" and even sometimes they coming agressive, but i really don't think these people represent the real old core of FFXI players, comparing old FFXI to actual FFXI is like comparing Dark Soul to Skyrim, its 2 differents experiences, but here the gentile won :3

I agree, it all comes down to ppl giving their opinions/input and each individual's personal experience may vary. For instance, I started playing ffxi in the summer of 2004, did all of the endgame events, sky, limbus, HNM,etc, but it all feels the same to me (Macro mashing). I can only give my personal feelings and/or experiences; but I do not represent the entire ffxi community (As you previously stated). There may be a fair amount of defiance associated with this topic (As you alluded to), but I can only add my 2 cents.

[Camiie]

I totally agree with you. The old game put "rules ontop of rules" like a mountain of rules that you had to climb. It was you versus this big challenging system that seemed to enjoy watching you die in tragic and tearful ways! But when you reached the summit of the mountain, you felt euphoria - you were ontop of the world.

I think you're mistaking euphoria for relief. I could come up with crude comparisons if you like, but basically your mind/body is responding to the removal of negative stimuli. Basically "THANK GOD I DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT MISERY ANYMORE!" Personally I think a game is missing the point of being a game if the process of obtaining a thing is miserable. And a game can be challenging without being miserable.


I talk to new players who joined post 2010, and got 99 without ever doing a legit party, usually just watching sweepers get one-shotted in Aby-Altep for 69 levels and skeletons getting pwned in Gusgen before that. They sailed through the levelling process and they never talked about euphoric moments, like I experienced every five levels on solo Bst when I felt like Hannibal from the A-Team, lighting a triumphant cigar and "I love it when a plan comes together!"
Also agree with your HMNLS link.
If SE could retain some of the old "party-dynamics" system of the old game, while retaining the "ease-of-access" functions that have been added recently, it would be great. I personally hate WKR. It is everything I hate. The lag melts my PC. There is no party-dynamics in 99% of WKR activity, it is 'blunt-instrument' gaming and it is not why I love FFXI. I love FFXI for the solo heroism, or low-man triumphs moments. Soloing the black abyssite T4 Dragon on my Pup, or killing Xol with three Bsts back in 04. Feelings of victory that WKR open-alliance smashmode doesn't even get anywhere close to.


I'm happy every time I improve my character. It doesn't matter if it's through merits, buying something at the AH, or getting a rare drop.

[Ravenmore]

I totally agree with you. The old game put "rules ontop of rules" like a mountain of rules that you had to climb. It was you versus this big challenging system that seemed to enjoy watching you die in tragic and tearful ways! But when you reached the summit of the mountain, you felt euphoria - you were ontop of the world. I talk to new players who joined post 2010, and got 99 without ever doing a legit party, usually just watching sweepers get one-shotted in Aby-Altep for 69 levels and skeletons getting pwned in Gusgen before that. They sailed through the levelling process and they never talked about euphoric moments, like I experienced every five levels on solo Bst when I felt like Hannibal from the A-Team, lighting a triumphant cigar and "I love it when a plan comes together!"
Also agree with your HMNLS link.
If SE could retain some of the old "party-dynamics" system of the old game, while retaining the "ease-of-access" functions that have been added recently, it would be great. I personally hate WKR. It is everything I hate. The lag melts my PC. There is no party-dynamics in 99% of WKR activity, it is 'blunt-instrument' gaming and it is not why I love FFXI. I love FFXI for the solo heroism, or low-man triumphs moments. Soloing the black abyssite T4 Dragon on my Pup, or killing Xol with three Bsts back in 04. Feelings of victory that WKR open-alliance smashmode doesn't even get anywhere close to.

All of that is still there just not in every aspect of the game just like it has always been. Many people low man all the sky gods and limbus bosses and old Jailers but LSes were still faster then low man even sharing the loot. There was crappy LSes that failed, but many more that could do it all in their sleep. Ally kills were safer and faster just like delve or anything else you don't have to take a full alliance to, delve in fact many LSes sold up to 4 slots for delve and still won comfortably. You don't have to take the max allowed to enter any of the fights now so you can have the old days back by limiting your self just like then.

Hey SE did just what you're asking look no further then the AA fights, 6 man parties just like back in the day, unless you mean must have a pld, whm, buffer, BLM DD, DD but those days died long before easy mode when the player base woke up and seen SC+MB was inferior to spamming your strongest WS and DD tanking was just as fast as taking a pld cause the system was broke since the 50s. FFXI is so simple and easy to understand that anyone could pick it up and how oyu killed beetles and birds didn't get you ready to kill HNM.

[Ravenmore]

Thing is people got older and took on more responsibilities, so once hardcore players now welcome the faster exp and more jump on and play. That type of player simple out number people that enjoyed the grind. Sorry just the way things work and SE had all the evidence they needed when every low level zone was empty more often then not.

Without the faster exp people would have capped out their couple of 75s get bored of the jobs but unable to level at a acceptable rate due to no one doing the low to mid level way bother so the only option left to them is to quit. Either way SE was going to lose players no matter which they went and went with the way that would lose the least.

All MMOs decline in population even WoW, so will FF14 and any other new MMO. SE has the hard data and you can bet they made the call based on login time and actively of players that were on to decide to go this route.

[Camiie]

Thing is people got older and took on more responsibilities, so once hardcore players now welcome the faster exp and more jump on and play. That type of player simple out number people that enjoyed the grind. Sorry just the way things work and SE had all the evidence they needed when every low level zone was empty more often then not.


Additionally new, games were released that showed the world that an MMO could function without being a painful, life-sucking, poop-socking experience. A trend that SE was slow to catch on to.

[Evogolist]

Now this is just my personal opinion, but I always see threads and conversations like this. True I myself miss the old days of XI back when the community was more interactive with each other, but to be honest SE simply gave us the tools for better and easier gameplay. Not pointing fingers at anyone, but SE gave us stuff like campaign, abyssea, FoV/GoV, and even buffed the amount of xp that mobs gave to make gameplay easier. We the community were the ones that ultimately made the decision to use what was given to us. Even now there's nothing that stops any of us from going back to the old way of level grinding/merit grinding in 6 man pts and most of the old camps remain unchanged. The only issue that you would run into is finding like minded people, which to be honest is a rarity nowadays since ppl want max lvl and xp now so that they can go straight to endgame.

OP here's a small suggestion. Try shouting in Jeuno, whitegate, or Adoulin for old school pts, it's a long shot, but if you can find ppl who are interested in old pts than get together with them, maybe even start a static pt. Wanna go pt in the dunes? Wanna pt in crawlers nest or garliage citadel? Wanna go back to level capped mission and bcnm fights? Simple, just shout for it and form a group. Like I said, not many may want to do it, but if it's really what you and a few other ppl want, then go for it. The game and how it's played is only limited to what it is that we want and how we play it.

[illusionist]

I miss old days a lot,Like getting AF1 was huge adventure,like that..and I say these kind of things sometimes.
But I can't play with old system now.I cannot keep up with friends without abyssea.

I once stopped all lvling shortly after Zilart,I just couldn't stand lvling without chatting.(I felt like I'm a casting machine back then.)So I've been playing for years as only BLM.
Evogolist is right,it's all about spirits.People grew up or got old in this 11 years,and Maybe I began adjust myself to gaming system.Maybe I'm not majority and hopeless romantique,
For me,It's ok If system isn't going to crash our spirits.For a light player like me,Abyssea is convenient boost,and My 2nd job and rest grew up different way.I sometime feel insecure about my player skill in those job,but now my 1st job I've been stick with is not so different.

It's ok and now I can't go back,I don't praise Abyssea but without Abyssea,I just get huge task and will be crashed.

(sorry about my English and rambling,and Hi Vivivivi_・)ノ　)

[Mirage]

While I don't think they pulled off the abyssea and onwards content as well as they could have, I definitely would not want to play at 75cap again.

I do however think that the level cap increases from 75 to 99 should have been handled a lot more carefully. In my opinion, a lot of the issues that arose from raising the cap wasn't because the cap was raised, but because they raised the cap faster than they managed to maintain balance between the different jobs. To use some imaginary numbers, let's say the increase from 75 to 80 made 5 jobs relatively stronger than they were before, and 5 jobs relatively weaker. SE started fixing a few of these issues, but before they were done with even half of the 10 jobs, they raised the cap to 85, which gave us a dozen new issues, and so on. SE saw these issues but apparently didn't feel they had time to sort these issues out fast enough, and ended up with a cop-out, aka proc system. It's basically SE telling us straight out "these jobs suck but you have to bring them if you want good loot". Of course, they even failed at that the first time around, as tons of job were still excluded in the abyssea era, and a small selection of jobs could basically cover almost everything. Voidwatch continued the trend, except they actually managed to do what they tried to do in abyssea: Create alliances full of underpowered jobs that were only there for proccing.

Raising caps wasn't a bad idea at all, I'd even argue that it was absolutely necessary, but the execution of it was really messy and might still affect endgame balance even today.

Ideally, I think they should have been spread like this: RotZ: 50-75, CoP, 75-80, ToAU 80-85, WotG 85-90, all of abyssea 90-95 and then finally 95-99 in SoA. That would have given SE plenty of time to balance jobs as their levels increased. We might even have seen a few more interesting JAs in between 75-99 too, as they wouldn't be forced to brainstorm several dozen JAs and spells to add in just like a year with a severely understaffed dev team.

[Olor]

No. I could get the same level of amusement by standing with my flag up doing nothing, in the dunes, on my current server.


Thanks everyone for the input. It's good to get a better picture of the pre-Abyssea era.

It's interesting to see a collective "No" here, yet there are still many players who have migrated to FFXIV I see saying the opposite. Maybe they are only remembering the few good times they had?

I don't see how it would make sense for folks who are nostalgic for olde FFXI to migrate to FFXIV. I can think of very few things that are more opposite of olde school FFXI than FFXIV. It has literally NOTHING in common with olde FFXI.

[Puck]

Yeah, I totally want to go back to paying $13 a month to wait to play a game. That was sooooooo fun all those years. Waiting is my favorite activity, so I'm really disappointed I can actually play this game now instead of waiting to play it.

[Mirage]

Thanks everyone for the input. It's good to get a better picture of the pre-Abyssea era.

It's interesting to see a collective "No" here, yet there are still many players who have migrated to FFXIV I see saying the opposite. Maybe they are only remembering the few good times they had?

I think what they were really missing was the sense of adventure. Even if these players went back to a 75cap FFXI, I don't think they'd be satisfied. They'd seen every area, tried every job, fought every monster, read every story, and so on already. Playing FFXIV isn't just going back to a lower level game, but it is also to get to know a whole new world, and to be part of the community when new new stuff is discovered, when new groundbreaking strategies are developed, and so on. These players can't get that in FFXI now no matter what the level cap was.

[Ravenmore]

While I don't think they pulled off the abyssea and onwards content as well as they could have, I definitely would not want to play at 75cap again.

I do however think that the level cap increases from 75 to 99 should have been handled a lot more carefully. In my opinion, a lot of the issues that arose from raising the cap wasn't because the cap was raised, but because they raised the cap faster than they managed to maintain balance between the different jobs. To use some imaginary numbers, let's say the increase from 75 to 80 made 5 jobs relatively stronger than they were before, and 5 jobs relatively weaker. SE started fixing a few of these issues, but before they were done with even half of the 10 jobs, they raised the cap to 85, which gave us a dozen new issues, and so on. SE saw these issues but apparently didn't feel they had time to sort these issues out fast enough, and ended up with a cop-out, aka proc system. It's basically SE telling us straight out "these jobs suck but you have to bring them if you want good loot". Of course, they even failed at that the first time around, as tons of job were still excluded in the abyssea era, and a small selection of jobs could basically cover almost everything. Voidwatch continued the trend, except they actually managed to do what they tried to do in abyssea: Create alliances full of underpowered jobs that were only there for proccing.

Raising caps wasn't a bad idea at all, I'd even argue that it was absolutely necessary, but the execution of it was really messy and might still affect endgame balance even today.

Ideally, I think they should have been spread like this: RotZ: 50-75, CoP, 75-80, ToAU 80-85, WotG 85-90, all of abyssea 90-95 and then finally 95-99 in SoA. That would have given SE plenty of time to balance jobs as their levels increased. We might even have seen a few more interesting JAs in between 75-99 too, as they wouldn't be forced to brainstorm several dozen JAs and spells to add in just like a year with a severely understaffed dev team.

You are giving them way to much credit, they sucked at balance from the very start and no matter how much time they had they still wouldn't have came close to balance. Franky look at how long they had at 75 and the only real DD was sam cause of ease of play and difficulty of derp. Sure other DDs were ok or even good at exping but really lolexp or they took so much effort to play right that again why risk it when you knew taking a sam was safest. What really gave the illusion of balance was events being easy for 18(limbus bosses), events not being timed, not instanced or being able to take so many people it didn't matter taking the weaker jobs and those jobs weaknesses weren't visible.

Some of it is also due to how well the player base understands the mechanics of the game and how limited and hand tied SE is at changing the base mechanics of the game.

[Xantavia]

Yeah, I totally want to go back to paying $13 a month to wait to play a game. That was sooooooo fun all those years. Waiting is my favorite activity, so I'm really disappointed I can actually play this game now instead of waiting to play it.
For some reason, I never seemed to suffer the waiting game in Jeuno (started about 6 months before WotG). Sure I didn't get parties everyday, but I found other stuff to do while LFP. I'd set a seacom and go farm somewhere or kill some easy prey for 20-30 xp a kill. And its not like people were waiting for a BLU to come along and complete the group. Even when I took up BST as my second job, I would get invites on occasion. If your only goal at the time was to level and you stood around doing nothing until a tell came along, I guess I can see the frustration. I just made sure there was other stuff I wanted to accomplish so there were multiple activities I could fill an evening with.

Years later, magian weapons were a godsend. With 95% of missions knocked out of the way and collecting most of gear that caught my eye, it opened up a whole slew of stuff to do. Every time I decided to level a new job, I'd grab a trial and go xp in an appropriate zone to upgrade a weapon. Even with sparks gear awaiting me now at 99, I recently decided to make a set of h2h for mnk. I even switched over to merit mode so I wouldn't level too fast to outdate them.

[Kaiichi]

Kind of a coin toss to me. I may make a character on the server, but I don't think I could leave my old one. Kaiichi has already lived through the pre 75 cap bull crap, I can't say that I would want to do it again.But at the same time, "Maat's Cap" would be a respected trophy once again. So I guess yeah, I'd have a character on that server, but it would probably see less play than Kaiichi dose.

[Alhanelem]

I would not. I accept that MMOs evolve and change over time, and that even if The game was reverted to years ago, it still wouldn't be the same.

[Vivivivi]

One way to think about the current game is that it's easy to get to level 99 but it takes some effort to get to 119 ;) and for that, six man parties have returned in the form of new BCs, skirmish and delve.

[Calatilla]

Only thing I miss about "those times" are my friends and my Linkshell. If I could wave a magic wand and bring all of them back, it wouldn't matter what type of XI we'd play.
So to answer your question, no. I would not go back to "old XI" just for sake of how it worked. It was all about friends, LS mates and community in general.

This, I`d want my old friends back more than having the game the way it was. Competing with other linkshells week in week out for 1 drop that you might be lucky to even be able lot on after 5yrs was never my idea of fun.

[Shugo]

I just recently returned to FFXI (I quit in 2011 when FFXIV 1.0 came out) after FFXIV just wouldn't cut it at all for me. I played this game from the moment it released until the cap when up to 80. The newer generations of MMOs, games too in general, are just getting more and more casualized.

Now just hear me out on this before you get mad. This game was basically my life from 2003 to 2011. I was never the 'best', but for the most part I beat everything in the game and usually had something to show for it. I loved this game more than anything in the world.

If I had one wish it would be to go back to 2003 and do it all over again. I regret absolutely nothing about my experience. If I had one wish it would be to have the original XI remade with a few changes to fit with the times.

And no I don't have rose tinted goggle on.

Did certain things suck? Yeah. But take a closer look at it.

You hate waiting for parties? It could suck sometimes being an unpopular job and sitting for days, even a week without getting exp. There isn't a doubt about it. But look at the duty finder in XIV, look at getting 99 in Abyssia today. What do you get out of that? Nothing. Leveling up should be a fun journey where you learn and make friends along the way, not a catapult straight to endgame.

When you partied it was more than just that, it was the foundation of a community. Something that MMOs barely have anymore!

Think about it: When you got a party, you were usually on your best behavior. You were friendly, you helped others if they needed it. You waited for people because you had to. Why? Because if you were a jerk, people would remember you and wouldn't invite you next time!

It encouraged people to bond, to have to WORK TOGETHER! When you're able to do everything by yourself or simply group up with randoms at the push of a button, other players and the atmosphere of the game becomes just background noise. Add into that a real-time GPS map system and there basically isn't a reason to have an MMO. It might as well be a lobby system like playing a MoBa like LoL or maybe like Diablo 3. Seriously, what is the point in playing an amazing game with so many people when you're not encouraged to have anything to do with them?

Over the years I played XI I made so many friends it was basically another life. Compare that to XIV which I lost way more friends that I gained. Why? In XI people were encouraged to be nice and make new friends in order to get things accomplished. Sure later on when endgame was well defined you had people being close-knit elitists. I was sure one of them, I won't lie to you. But does a more casual endgame with absolutely no competition solve that? You might not have to deal with people like that claiming an NM over you, but they're still going to have the same attitude.

The pace of the game in the original XI was purposeful too. Yeah it was a long grind to 75, but you were pretty much FORCED to know how to play your job properly. Now compare that to FATE grinding in XIV where you smash your face on the keyboard and get exp. Compare that to exping in Abyssia.

TLDR?

Yes XI had its negative points, but getting rid of them completely dismantled the foundation and the point of an MMO. To play online, meet new people, and have fun.

If they somehow ever remade the original XI, people would play it and it would be better than any of the other watered down trash there is now.

They could just add a bit more quality of life to some things, but still keep the same foundation. They could keep FoV books, thus making soloing an option but grouping should be the focus still. The old HNMs everyone struggled over could be more casualized into force pops like they are now. Along with having level sync, I think that's all it would take to make it more casual-friendly.

[Lithera]

Yet back in the 75 days you would still find people who didn't know how to play their job. Though they probably were in the minority. Also now that they made fate grinding for xp less appealing in XIV people have started to learn their jobs over there. Though xp partying roles vs end game event roles changed abit for some jobs.

[Ravenmore]

Yet back in the 75 days you would still find people who didn't know how to play their job. Though they probably were in the minority. Also now that they made fate grinding for xp less appealing in XIV people have started to learn their jobs over there. Though xp partying roles vs end game event roles changed abit for some jobs.


Sadly they were not that rare. With endgame being exactly like it is to day you had many brds, rdms and whm, cors that had no idea what they were doing since they were DD players trying to level a support job to get into a endgame LS. As for DDs after 60 you could expect to see in your party one or two of them in full af which was for the most part worthless outside macros.

At least with the bad dds you wouldn't see them again or they were just being cheap and saying for 75, the mages no matter how bad they were, they were getting insta invites. So even kicking them out of your party didn't teach them anything some one would be desperate enough to get some exp they would put up with it.

As for waiting for invites wasn't just the unpopular jobs it was every non-support job that had to wait and unlike them if you got stuck in a sub par party you had little to no choice but to suck it up cause parties took long enough to get that you justified putting up with it with some thing is better then nothing.

Then the one thing people seem to always forget when looking back at good old 75 was the exping only taught you how to exp and nothing else. Endgame was so different then exping that you had to relearn where you fit in to the team any way so in the end all exp done was serve as a road block. Then there was the same old you could buy your way to good gear and many LSes only did ground and sky to sell the drops.

[predatory]

Nope. Even though there are quite alot of things I miss about the old days (the grinds and time sinks and long term goals, sky, sea, hnms, sidegrade gear etc) there are a few things I like about aby and beyond. I like the proc system added in aby and carried over into dynamis, I like having my mog satchel and mog case, I like the trust system, I like the waypoints, home point warps, aby warps and vw warps, and I like being able to do assault, salvage etc solo. The one thing I hated about the old days was not being able to solo unless you were on one of a very few jobs

[Siviard]

To answer the OP......"No"

[Donmega]

I prefer FFXI as it is now, i had alot of fun back in those times but tanaka's concepts for events were just too encumbering, time vs. reward is a sensitive subject but i prefer it be quicker than slower for most things, maybe beside r/m/e style weapons. As far a FFXIV i got a maxed character from when the retail release launched til patch 1.23 and i miss the patch 1.23 days, liked the battle system very much and enjoyed the game more then despite the fundamental flaws then i ever will with the generic spam-actions battlesystem they have today, only way i'd play FFXIV again is if they made another version with an auto-attack battlesystem similar but much improved from the one FFXI is got right now, maybe like the one they had in FFXIV patch 1.23 but updated.

[predatory]

For some reason, I never seemed to suffer the waiting game in Jeuno (started about 6 months before WotG). Sure I didn't get parties everyday, but I found other stuff to do while LFP. I'd set a seacom and go farm somewhere or kill some easy prey for 20-30 xp a kill. And its not like people were waiting for a BLU to come along and complete the group. Even when I took up BST as my second job, I would get invites on occasion. If your only goal at the time was to level and you stood around doing nothing until a tell came along, I guess I can see the frustration. I just made sure there was other stuff I wanted to accomplish so there were multiple activities I could fill an evening with.

Years later, magian weapons were a godsend. With 95% of missions knocked out of the way and collecting most of gear that caught my eye, it opened up a whole slew of stuff to do. Every time I decided to level a new job, I'd grab a trial and go xp in an appropriate zone to upgrade a weapon. Even with sparks gear awaiting me now at 99, I recently decided to make a set of h2h for mnk. I even switched over to merit mode so I wouldn't level too fast to outdate them.

But that's not how it always was. At one point in time if you weren't a rng, whm, or a tank, and you wanted a party, you ass had better be standing in Jueno with your flag up because there wasn't an option to look for people lfg, you had to search by level and area. So when people say standing around with their flag up in jueno, that's exactly what they meant

[Krystal]

I would. The only problem is that I don't think it would take off at all. Too many of us have been spoiled by abby's easy leveling. to be forced to go back to old fashioned leveling now that we KNOW there's an easy way out there would be like saying"hey kids! there's two version of the cop bahamut battle now! This version lets you kill him in 3 hits solo while the other requires 20 players and a detailed strategy to beat!" Three guesses the and the first two don't count as to which they would choose 99% of the time.

If they had done abby differently, such as restrict level entry to 75, then things would most likely have turned out better.

[Rpro]

But that's not how it always was. At one point in time if you weren't a rng, whm, or a tank, and you wanted a party, you ass had better be standing in Jueno with your flag up because there wasn't an option to look for people lfg, you had to search by level and area. So when people say standing around with their flag up in jueno, that's exactly what they meant

That is incorrect. /sea all inv - was in the game from the day I started in January 2004. That would show everyone with their flag up worldwide. You could add level parameters to narrow the search.

[Ravenmore]

But that's not how it always was. At one point in time if you weren't a rng, whm, or a tank, and you wanted a party, you ass had better be standing in Jueno with your flag up because there wasn't an option to look for people lfg, you had to search by level and area. So when people say standing around with their flag up in jueno, that's exactly what they meant

Sorry but in the whole time I have been playing(since 2004) you have been able to search by level over all areas, who ever had their flag up showed up no matter where they were. All standing in town meant was you where closer to a choco, airship or to shout up a tele.

Again people like Krystal seem to think people would had level all the jobs they have now under the old system. Sadly it's simply not true the only reason people level those jobs was because of the ease of leveling and more then likely wouldn't had taken them past subjob level. I had 3 jobs at 75 before aby and one of those I had almost completely soloed 37 to 75 and I was not going to level another job no matter how much it would help me progress in game.

[Castanica]

Most of the people that would love to see FFXI return to the party leveling system have long since quit, so asking this here is..kinda silly.

[Ceinwyn]

Most of the people that would love to see FFXI return to the party leveling system have long since quit, so asking this here is..kinda silly.

some still come back, like me tough... (: a revamp of some Kind would be nice but i dont think SE is intrested in it so best u can so is to look for likeminded People and make some Kind of Events out of it!

btw most mmorpgs on the market are crap compared to this one!

[Spook]

Most of the people that would love to see FFXI return to the party leveling system have long since quit, so asking this here is..kinda silly.

I agree with this. Like, as is its too late for XI to go back imo. The funny part is I feel with the changes they are making to XI they are catering to the same people who enjoy XIV, so in the end those of us who liked XI for what it was (even though of course there were things I wanted changed) get nothing in the end. Now it doesn't really matter anymore, but it does make me a bit sad. The positive thing is at least there are other companies that realize people are tired of not having any options on the MMO market so unlike the last ten years we will "soon" be able to play new games that cater somewhat to us but with a new take on it instead of being forced to cling to old games only.

Just to be clear I am not saying they did anything wrong, I am only saying they have done the wrong moves for my taste, that does not mean I think it was the wrong move overall.

[Nobuo_Uematsu]

Id Pay Quadruple the price to get on a server of the old game.

ive been soloing my characters 1-99 with help of trust system, feels a bit like it used to but there not much of conversation starters.

abbysea power leveling killed the old ffxi so doubt there will be many hard core players still around.
someone should just make some hard core linkshells. or one server would be nice so no abby burns.

ha summoner burns were hard core compared to abbysea

[Ravenmore]

Id Pay Quadruple the price to get on a server of the old game.

ive been soloing my characters 1-99 with help of trust system, feels a bit like it used to but there not much of conversation starters.

abbysea power leveling killed the old ffxi so doubt there will be many hard core players still around.
someone should just make some hard core linkshells. or one server would be nice so no abby burns.

ha summoner burns were hard core compared to abbysea

Wow, why can't people like you understand the only reason people leveled up as many jobs as they have now was because of abby and if not for abby leveling they just wouldn't have leveled them at all. Also there have been a few LSs that have tried that but either broke up or just gave up with the no aby thing. Mostly cause they needed either whms or other proc jobs for endgame were most of the action was.

[Spook]

Yeah, I don't think making an LS or old school server would do much at this point. SE chose who they wanted to cater to with Abyssea/Adoulin and MOST of the people who didn't want that have quit. Not to mention even if some people prefer the old game (like me and my friends), not all would play on a server with no updates or things to look forward to etc. At this point SE should just continue catering to the few people that are left and focus on them.