I think I'm finished; a new player's final thoughts

[Pandemon]

Leave this game, SE don't like new players, impossible for new player play this game. Move to WOW or FF14, i'm play since 2004 and listen me.....don't waste your time on FFXI.

[Randwolf]

I was offline for a while. About a year. Kept my account going and logged in occasionally to say 'hi' or do some simple things with the login campaigns. But, yes, the game is daunting now. As always, the best stuff comes from large group (alliance) activities. And, the gear got so over the top so fast that it's embarrassing wearing my gear from a year ago. I will say, though, the 117 Eminent gear is helpful. While not uber, it certainly gives a good bump to stats.

[detlef]

Brain dead questing? That'd be FOV, GOV, and ROE. They're quests without ANY pretense of story AT ALL. At least in XIV or WoW you get some flimsy excuse as to why the local Spriggan population must die or why the Horde needs 10 snake toenails. XI's devs are not even trying anymore with the quests that actually are worth doing.I don't consider FoV, GoV, or RoE to be quests. They're just bonuses you get for doing things. My definition of a quest is a specific task given to you by an NPC that is significant enough to show up in your quest log.

Edit: I guess you could consider almost any non-direct drop gear acquisition a quest too, but either way FoV, GoV, and RoE don't really seem to be quests in my eyes.

[Demonjustin]

RoE starts at a NPC, it gives you objectives, it is located in the Quest menu.



Ya know, just sayin.

[Finuve]

RoE starts at a NPC, it gives you objectives, it is located in the Quest menu.


Ya know, just sayin.as someone that is back on XI because of how incredibly boring XIV ARR is, I will say that RoE is questing done right, there is no pointless attempt to shoehorn a story where no story is deserved, no requirements to go to NPCs every time you finish objectives, and most importantly no handholding, just a list of things that say "go do it"

RoE is what XIV's hunting log should have been

EDIT: Quoted wrong person

[Lithera]

Hmm... I don't think Final Fantasy XIV has that "don't neglect your life" warning anywhere when logging in.

It's the a word to our players bit right before you hit play for the last time.

For verbatim: a word to our players

Exploring Vana'diel is a thrilling experience.
During your time here, you will be able to talk, join, and adventure with many other individuals in an experience that is unique to online games.

That being said, we have no desire to see your real life suffer as a consequence.
Don't forget your family, your friends, your school, or your work.

Sorry it took a while to reply and post this response but I havent logged in since Wednesday.

[detlef]

RoE starts at a NPC, it gives you objectives, it is located in the Quest menu.



Ya know, just sayin.I can't argue with that, although you have to admit that it has a decidedly different flavor from what you would consider a prototypical quest. That's why I don't fault the game or the devs for introducing them; they really added bonuses to something you would theoretically be doing anyway rather than what we generally think of as quests.

[Demonjustin]

They said FFXIV.

Unless it's the exact same for both games. Idk, just seemed like you misunderstood it as being FFXI they were talking about. :x

[detlef]

They said FFXIV.

Unless it's the exact same for both games. Idk, just seemed like you misunderstood it as being FFXI they were talking about. :xAre you responding to me? I don't know what we're talking about anymore.

[Lithera]

They said FFXIV.

Unless it's the exact same for both games. Idk, just seemed like you misunderstood it as being FFXI they were talking about. :x
Ahh yes true they were. Though I haven't seen one for XIV. But the whole don't neglect your RL wasn't started about XIV but XI. Though seriously you think the same parent company will say don't forget your RL for one of its mmos but not the other two? Would set them up for a lawsuit if they didn't take the same stance.

[Demonjustin]

Are you responding to me? I don't know what we're talking about anymore.Sorry, I was replying to what Lithera said.

[Obysuca]

Ahh yes true they were. Though I haven't seen one for XIV. But the whole don't neglect your RL wasn't started about XIV but XI. Though seriously you think the same parent company will say don't forget your RL for one of its mmos but not the other two? Would set them up for a lawsuit if they didn't take the same stance.

Returning from XIV back to XI, it's pretty easy to see why they didn't bother putting that message into XIV. You can literally finish all of the week's content in 1 day and have nothing to do the rest of the week so there'd be no point in people staying on for hours and days at a time like we used to on XI.

Semi-off topic but SE made the mistake on XIV of pulling the WoW crap, instead of pulling great ideas from XI, you know, the mmo of theirs that's lasted for over a decade, while all mmos that do the WoW route which they choose for XIV end up dying in a year or so lol Which is another reason they probably didn't add that message when you log on, there's nothing to keep people actually playing, every update XIV's had so far (yeah I know, not much but still) is the same crap you already do for the same gear, just different scenery.

[Lithera]

They had it I guess back in. 1.0 but haven't put it back on. Also I love people complaining about lack of stuff in XIV and thus why they have came back to XI. Right now and even back in 1.23 XIV is what XI was before RoZ was added. Not that how things are progressing in XIV are needed to be hashed out on another games forum.

[Elexia]

Brain dead questing? That'd be FOV, GOV, and ROE.

And FFXIV. Let's be honest. The ironic thing is you even mentioned the systems that are basically what a majority of FFXIV's quests are without the optional dialog. I'm pretty sure fetching laundry then slaying moles definitely gives you the story of the world and why the world had an enhanced 'healing' after Bahamut wrecked it.

Mhm.


XI's devs are not even trying anymore with the quests that actually are worth doing.

Neither are XIV's devs, most quests are copy pasted with terms swapped around. RoE though? Yeah, those I actually don't mind but then again I'm biased since XIV is pretty much x MMO that's been released 100x between 2005-2014, especially on the asian market.

People that complain about lack of stuff to do in XIV is because they artificially extend content you'd be done with in a few hours if they didn't introduce lockouts.

[Camiie]

Do we really expect every quest from every lowly NPC to contain an epic story with a world shattering threat at the end? If I help Grandma make her special snake toenail soup, should I expect the Ultimate Lord of Nightmares to come swooping in to take it? That'd be more than a little absurd, and cheapen the experience a lot more than some perfunctory dialogue.

[Afania]

Do we really expect every quest from every lowly NPC to contain an epic story with a world shattering threat at the end? If I help Grandma make her special snake toenail soup, should I expect the Ultimate Lord of Nightmares to come swooping in to take it? That'd be more than a little absurd, and cheapen the experience a lot more than some perfunctory dialogue.

No, I don't expect every quest from every lowly NPC to be super epic, but I expect something little more than "hey, I need help with delivering a letter, help me do it please!". I expect quests that's related to the world, the lore, and the way every NPC lives....something that's more than delivering a letter. If they want me to help delivering a letter, at least tell me why they need my help, maybe there's a big giant dragon lurking on the way that often attack the travellers or something.

SE didn't put their heart into writing side quests, instead they put all their resource into animation and boss mechanics. That's just not very acceptable IMO, since I value role playing element more than shiny animation and boss mechanics.

I mean, SWTOR and TESO had better quests, even though it's fundamentally the same "kill X and get Y", the dev put a little bit more effort than ARR in the questing aspect. If SWTOR and TESO can do it, why can't ARR?

Oh and btw, FoV or RoE is more acceptable than brain dead questing in ARR. To me FoV and RoE is a game system, FFXI has other side quests that's real side quests and that can tell us about the lore and the way NPC lives, ARR quests is part of the story, and most of them failed.

[Afania]

They had it I guess back in. 1.0 but haven't put it back on. Also I love people complaining about lack of stuff in XIV and thus why they have came back to XI. Right now and even back in 1.23 XIV is what XI was before RoZ was added. Not that how things are progressing in XIV are needed to be hashed out on another games forum.

Except XIV's lack of content isn't because it's new, but because it lacks replay value. Comparing with FFXI is pointless, ARR is competing against other recent AAA MMO such as SWTOR, GW2 and soon TESO. It's slightly behind in terms of replay value, sadly.(GW2 doesn't have much staying power either, but at least it has better PVP that made players occassionally go back and PVP)





Returning from XIV back to XI, it's pretty easy to see why they didn't bother putting that message into XIV. You can literally finish all of the week's content in 1 day and have nothing to do the rest of the week so there'd be no point in people staying on for hours and days at a time like we used to on XI.


And that's not a good design for MMO. MMO is supposed to keep players play for months and years, not letting players finish the game in less than 3 months and quit.

If someone want to play 12hr a day because they can't finish a MMO, it's not MMO's fault, it's player's fault. It doesn't justify short lived content.

[Elexia]

Do we really expect every quest from every lowly NPC to contain an epic story with a world shattering threat at the end? If I help Grandma make her special snake toenail soup, should I expect the Ultimate Lord of Nightmares to come swooping in to take it? That'd be more than a little absurd, and cheapen the experience a lot more than some perfunctory dialogue.

As said, you should expect a bit more, especially when SE has told us themselves each quest should give you lore and history on the events post Dalamud, so we should expect a bit more than telling me to give your sentries TEA...and PRETZELS...and fetching laundry....and killing 5 of x....and delivering letters....

No I don't expect there to be a Dynamis Lord type fight for every quest, but I do expect there to be a fair bit more relevance to the actual game's story. Even side quest is single player FF games was relevant to the world or main storyline in some fashion, generic MMORPGs tend to forget to do that. What cheapened the experience was going from relevant quest > filler x 80 > relevant > filler x 80 > FINALLY finishing. This is why RoE is "done right" because it's clear cut to the point that it's there as a mean of progression and not trying to disguise it by shoddy story you can skip through and feel no regret in doing so.

[Camiie]

I can speak more for WoW than for XIV, but if you really pay attention many quests DO tie in at least superficially to the main story. Some of them do so quite directly. And then many are completely out of left field and unrelated to anything. The problem is many players don't pay attention. They just click enter. The storyline is there even if it's not shown in an elaborate cutscene. I guess they need it crammed forcibly down their throats, but then they'll complain about that too.

[Elexia]

I can speak more for WoW than for XIV, but if you really pay attention many quests DO tie in at least superficially to the main story. Some of them do so quite directly. And then many are completely out of left field and unrelated to anything. The problem is many players don't pay attention. .

I've paid attention as I always pay attention to details which is why I still see XI doing much, much more in terms of design than XIV is doing. ARR may be prettier and "new" but it still has a long way to go before it reaches that point where it pays attention to the 'little things' that made XI's world design pretty awesome. Quite a lot of them are unrelated to anything as the whole purpose is to level you, give you money and sometimes a piece of gear or two. It is true that:


They just click enter.

Because even Square did when they showed off the system.


The storyline is there even if it's not shown in an elaborate cutscene.

Same with many of FFXI's quests, at best you can get 'automated' scene or two and not a full blown CS, yet most quests were actually related to something rather than pointless fetch..hell even a snippet of dialog went a long way to make it relevant. It's more like XIV tries a bit 'too hard' but if you've played as many of the 'generic MMORPGs' as I have, ARR really did fall into the 'progression' trap and they lost their way and you can really see it by quest design and can point out exactly when the quests went from relevant to "We needed more or the player would be stuck in levels."


I guess they need it crammed forcibly down their throats

Funnily enough, it would then be a FF game. This is why RoE is pretty much the best quest system, it's pretty obvious in its purpose and it doesn't beat around the bush, want story and lore? Do quests from NPCs...want to progress? RoE is there for ya. It even has the same exact type of quests you're offered in XIV - go collect stuff, go slaughter x of y and so on. Hell I even record every single quest and cutscene from XIV 1.x > ARR so I can have my own personal archive and keep up with the story and mythos and quite frankly, even being reunited by a 1.0 character felt thrown in somehow.

[Inarukja]

I'm playing 14-day-Free trial. After a week of my play, I love the game and decided to buy the full game when the free-trial end.
But this thread makes me afraid to buy the game for some reasons :(

[Camiie]

I'm playing 14-day-Free trial. After a week of my play, I love the game and decided to buy the full game when the free-trial end.
But this thread makes me afraid to buy the game for some reasons :(

Don't worry about what other people think, especially the people here (including me). This is one of the worst places to get unbiased opinions about XIV. If you enjoy it that's all that matters, and I doubt you have anything to worry about as far as XIV going away anytime soon or anything like that.

[Inarukja]

Don't worry about what other people think, especially the people here (including me). This is one of the worst places to get unbiased opinions about XIV. If you enjoy it that's all that matters, and I doubt you have anything to worry about as far as XIV going away anytime soon or anything like that.

XIV ?? I didn't talk about XIV. I hate XIV ARR. I like 1.0.

_____________________________

I mean I'm playing FFXI 14days-free-trial and I'm loving the game.
I like MMORPG that gives me the new experience, not copy other game and add something (like XIVARR).
Even XI is old, but it is something new for me. The game mechanic is fun, the musics are touching (I'm and old FF fan), etc. I like the game when it tells me nothing to do. It's fun that I have to figure out myself what to do to progress through the game. And it is more fun if I can ask what to do from the community and get a good answer.

Then I just found this thread and read through to page 10-11. What I've got from reading this.
I have to solo everything in an MMO game, really ? I know this is and old game so most of the players are veteran. Some old contents are needed to clear for endgame progression, some are just for fun, some are waste of time to do. It's fine even I do this "alone" in a "Multiplayer" game, BUT it's like I will never reach veteran player. How long will a new player catch up and enjoy playing this game as an "MMO" ?

Is there any "NEW FRESH PLAYER" like me that just start in 2012 or 2013, not a returning player, that can catch up with veteran and enjoy this game as MMO ?
If the answer is yes, I might buy this game because I still want to get in to the game and enjoy it. Even it will take me months to achieve that.

ps. I was a strong Final Fantasy fan. I've played all FF1-FF14 except this game, FFXI.

[bungiefanNA]

I'd say Tiktaks' REDDIT LS on Asura server shows that yes, new players can make it to the level of veteran players. You could join that when you have the full game and are allowed to trade with other players to get a pearl. I've also got an LS full of people in SanelyInsane on my server, a lot of new ones that have come to the game in the past year. Both LS have people that will assist in mission completion. How fast you catch up depends on how much time you have to play, but a month seems reasonable to being able to do an endgame event of your choice if you have about 10 hours a week.

[Elexia]

Don't worry about what other people think, especially the people here (including me). This is one of the worst places to get unbiased opinions about XIV. If you enjoy it that's all that matters, and I doubt you have anything to worry about as far as XIV going away anytime soon or anything like that.

Heh, the sad thing is, you say this yet on any XIV community you get noting but biased opinions and any "unbiased opinion" generally have people trying to tell you you're wrong. Fancy that.

[Camiie]

XIV ?? I didn't talk about XIV. I hate XIV ARR. I like 1.0.

I misread what you typed, but my point stands. Don't worry about other peoples' opinions, especially those on a forum like this.


Heh, the sad thing is, you say this yet on any XIV community you get noting but biased opinions and any "unbiased opinion" generally have people trying to tell you you're wrong. Fancy that.

Yeah I wouldn't listen to them either, or the people on the WoW forums or any other game really.

[Bukota]

I'm playing 14-day-Free trial. After a week of my play, I love the game and decided to buy the full game when the free-trial end.
But this thread makes me afraid to buy the game for some reasons :(

Sorry I didn't get to a reply sooner, but had a busy weekend enjoying the game.

I wanted to make sure I got to it though, and that I made the point that despite all of us posting in this doom and gloom thread, most people that actively post on this forum currently enjoy and play the game.

If you are into the storyline of other Final Fantasy games, then this one offers SO MUCH.

Now is the best time to come back and experience it in its totality.

The major complaint in this thread is by/for people who are not driven by the desire to do missions and follow the story.

And while I would still argue that it would be nice to have that option for my friends who felt that missions were just a challenge of seeing who could scroll through the meaningless text fast enough, I'm afraid some of the people who have argued that "maybe this just isn't the game for them" may be right.

For my money, there still seems to be quite a bit of partying going on in Abyssea, and I was able to break through some major boundaries this weekend by grouping there with other players.

Even though that is just mindless exping, it seems to me that there is a platform to make those connections.

[Mirage]

Inarukja: You have some catching up to do, but it isn't an impossible ordeal. There are some gear pieces that are easily obtainable even for new players, and that act as "gear resets" for the game. It's not the best, but it's good enough to jump directly into the current events that are part of the path to the best gear. As for the missions and quests you need to do, many of them involve a bit of legwork, and it might be hard to find people who are willing to help you with old content if they need to run for a long time to even get where it is. You might need to do most of the old content on your own, but you'll probably be able to get help with the final stretch of the mission lines, aka the "last bosses" of each expansion and such.

Currently there is an issue in the game where you're actually leveling slower by teaming up with others before you reach level 75-ish. It is not intentional, but a side effect of some things SE recently added. They'll probably sort it out sooner or later, but sadly that is the case right now. If it wasn't for that, I would say you'd probably be able to team up with 1-2 random people in some areas while leveling to the top, but right now i'm not certain. At 75+, most of the leveling is done in large grind-groups and they are fairly easy to get into.

Due to its age, it is a very top-heavy game. A large number of players have just about seen everything there is to see in the old world, and many have probably helped dozens of people through the content before. Eventually, even the more helpful players get kind of tired of it all, but I'm sure there are still some people left who are up for it.

One of the most important things is to get to know people fast, long before you feel that you need help. It's easier to help people you've known for a while than it is to help someone you've never even talked to before. I go pretty far out of my way to help people that i've known (and like) for a little while, even if it's just a week or two.

[Afania]

Don't worry about what other people think, especially the people here (including me). This is one of the worst places to get unbiased opinions about XIV. If you enjoy it that's all that matters, and I doubt you have anything to worry about as far as XIV going away anytime soon or anything like that.

Opinions about ARR on this forum is 10 times more unbiased than any other ARR related forum I've read lol, barring BG. So far the only negative opinion I see here about ARR are boring side quests and the lack of longevity. Those flaws are pretty much agreed by the majority. Pointing out flaws in a game =/= biased opinion.

Go to ARR official forum or other ARR forum, you see fanboys defend for every bad design direction made by SE. That's real biased opinion.

[Crevox]

Currently there is an issue in the game where you're actually leveling slower by teaming up with others before you reach level 75-ish.

This was an extremely common theme I noticed in game. Nobody wanted to party up to kill anything because they'd rather solo with their trust NPCs and not split exp/drops.

However, what they don't understand is that in many scenarios, you can gain more experience in a party through the eminence and book objectives, by killing enemies quicker. My friends and I started doing exp parties in areas like 5-10 levels below us, on easy prey mobs. The individual mobs gave "meh" experience, but we plowed through them so fast that we were finishing eminence objectives/book objectives and receiving better EXP/hr than if we were solo. Beyond that, it was a lot more fun, turning the usual "pull, kill, rest for 1 minute, kill again" into a non-stop massive battle of enemies constantly attacking. We fight and fight, people constantly pulling new enemies into the pack, taking on so many enemies at once, using our abilities as the jobs we were to do everything we could to survive. MP management was key for the people in the party that needed it, but with things like Refresh, food, and other items (Destrier Beret, which was often used because level syncing low level areas to do this was often the best). MP wasn't even really ever a problem, and if it was, all it took was for that person to sit and the battle to rage on. Even level ups played a part: they actually happened at a consistent enough rate that by the time we needed MP, we leveled up and got it all back.

This was a lot of fun and actually better exp than taking your trust NPCs and soloing monsters. It became even better when the double exp event ended, as the monster exp didn't change much at all from the event ending, yet, eminence and book EXP stayed the same. We got to play the jobs and make use of their abilities to their fullest, having MANY close calls and epic, fun scenarios for us to engage in. I still remember a lot of situations where a party member would come running back with a ridiculous number of monsters and someone in the party would say "run, we can't do this" and we would fight it out, and somehow come out alive. It became an ongoing challenge and joke to try to push the limits of what we were capable of, and use our abilities in creative ways to survive. This was probably the most fun I had in this game for the duration I played it.

The problem is that things like this go unnoticed. It's a strategy to gaining EXP, but it's not obvious by any means, so newbies don't do it. Combine this with the fact that it doesn't take long before newbies get told about the mythical "Abyssea worm party" and you end up drastically reducing the potential life span and fun of leveling for those that haven't done it a ton of times already.

[Eyeballed]

Amen to that Crevox. I often forget just how many new players now populate the game. There really aren't a lot left who played before the advent of Abyssea. I see a Lv99 / R10 and don't connect those two markers of experience don't mean much anymore.

Invited a LS member to join me in Crawler's Nest this morning, a level 99 WHM R10 Bastok and I had to tell them how to get there. Nothing against the person, as all they know is Abyssea.

Another shell-mate couldn't fathom why I was soloing there when I could be in Abyssea. He could not understand that I just enjoyed playing the game...

[Lithera]

You actually see rank ten people who are from post abyssea? Wow I just see rank 6 types

[detlef]

However, what they don't understand is that in many scenarios, you can gain more experience in a party through the eminence and book objectives, by killing enemies quicker. My friends and I started doing exp parties in areas like 5-10 levels below us, on easy prey mobs. The individual mobs gave "meh" experience, but we plowed through them so fast that we were finishing eminence objectives/book objectives and receiving better EXP/hr than if we were solo.I agree in theory that you should be killing much faster when you party up. However, I would argue that there aren't really very many camps in Adoulin with sufficient mob density/respawn to be able to handle a real XP party with bad intentions. I would love for there to be one or ten of them, as this would give us some serious options.

[Dreamin]

I agree in theory that you should be killing much faster when you party up. However, I would argue that there aren't really very many camps in Adoulin with sufficient mob density/respawn to be able to handle a real XP party with bad intentions. I would love for there to be one or ten of them, as this would give us some serious options.

Been to the few zones that was added in the last 2-3 updates?

[detlef]

Been to the few zones that was added in the last 2-3 updates?If you have a moment, please describe the camps.

[Dreamin]

If you have a moment, please describe the camps.

Not going to give away my latest camps/areas since there are trusters all over as is and they would absolutely killed your chain if they come into my camp.

But I wont mind giving ideas of 'older camps'. For example, with the 'old' toah merit style, you can just run in loops in the 'gates' area. Won't even need to be full party, but a group of 4 (2 DDs, healer and a cor or brd would be sufficient).

[Ravenmore]

Been to the few zones that was added in the last 2-3 updates?

From what I have seen none of the areas offer a bird camp dense area of mobs with the couple that comes close are also the type of mobs EXP parties avoid.

[detlef]

Not going to give away my latest camps/areas since there are trusters all over as is and they would absolutely killed your chain if they come into my camp.

But I wont mind giving ideas of 'older camps'. For example, with the 'old' toah merit style, you can just run in loops in the 'gates' area. Won't even need to be full party, but a group of 4 (2 DDs, healer and a cor or brd would be sufficient).Okay but I run through Woh Gates with just a DD and a healer and that can't handle much more than that. Is there anything with a denser concentration of mobs?

[Crevox]

Not going to give away my latest camps/areas since there are trusters all over as is and they would absolutely killed your chain if they come into my camp.


Stuff as simple as this is still kept a secret?

[Camiie]

Hey now, MMO XP is serious business. You have to protect your spots like Coca-Cola protects their formula. Billions of XP are at stake!

[Dreamin]

Stuff as simple as this is still kept a secret?

it is to me when I wanted to keep my chain going and not get wasted by some trusters who typically kill slow enough to just disrupt chain. difference between 700-800 exp vs 1.4k-1.6k on chain make my meriting session go a lot faster.

[Dreamin]

depending on what is your healer and what your DD is capable of doing, Woh Gate's from Drift straight down south loop with rabbits and worms are a prefect example of a very low man pt (<= 2 DD at most). Anymore and respawn will kill your chain. Nothing aggro in this path but they do link like crazy so either have a healer that can also sleep would give you some relieve. Or just make sure your healer is a capable healer.

[Eyeballed]

I understand Dreamin's want to keep his camp secret. He probably found it the way any other person could: by researching and exploring.

[Mirage]

Stuff as simple as this is still kept a secret?

You have the same ability as everyone else to figure out which spots work best for you. Finding the optimal spot for yourself can take some time, it's only natural that people don't want to see it spoiled by others right away.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I understand Dreamin's want to keep his camp secret. He probably found it the way any other person could: by researching and exploring.

... which is time that could have been spent EXPing with Trust NPCs.

[Camiie]

Behold the kind, compassionate, and generous FFXI community at work.

[Dreamin]

... which is time that could have been spent EXPing with Trust NPCs.

No thanks. I do get more and faster xp without the use of trust npc. However, I did use Lion last time I went to fishmarket to farm up a rock for delve entry and it was hella fast with TH (got 2 drop within the 1st 10 mobs...and then the 3rd drop almost 45min later). I definitely thinks the Trust has its place and it does allow those more casual players better opportunity to complete a lot of the stuff that they can't do themselves. But a blanket statement that said Trust NPCs will get you MORE exp than party is just flat out wrong.

There are plenty of other camps that would work. The key is will your party be willing to take on the risk of the harder mobs or not (we're talking about a lot of these will and can 1 shot you even with 119 gears). More risk = more reward and faster merit session.

[Dreamin]

From what I have seen none of the areas offer a bird camp dense area of mobs with the couple that comes close are also the type of mobs EXP parties avoid.

remember it's not just mob density, but the combination of respawn timer that will yield you the effective density. Not sure you ever had to do this before but back in the old colibris merit pt, when we ended up getting the upper camp, we usually have to go steal 1 or 2 birds from the lower deck to keep chain going. But just that 1-2 birds are usually enough to keep chain going and not dropped it. [yeah the lower deck ppl usually yell/shout at us to stop stealing their birds but it's usually just lol all around].

So yeah, there might not be enough density to kill fast but as long as there are enough mobs to keep chain going, then density becomes a non-issue (and why I said in some camps, when you have more than 2+ DDs it wont work anymore since you'll be killing too fast).

[Dreamin]

Behold the kind, compassionate, and generous FFXI community at work.

Unless you're paying my monthly fee, I'm not required to help anyone in any way, shape or form. Especially like others have said, I've spent my own time and found these camps and if I don't feel like sharing with the open public so everyone and their mother and their trusts will come kill my chain. It is no one else's business. I dont mind sharing ideas on how to find the appropriate camp for others (i.e. party size/strength/weakness are the key parameters one need to understands and accepted).

I'll throw a freebie to you here. If you have a group of people who needs a lot of merits (AA KI) and only 1 or 2 people can be active and the rest needs to afk and you just dont want to suffer the 200-300xp/mob + RoE exp bonus on lower level mobs, you can take a MNK (just load him up with EVA) [or BLU with good Thunder gears, or BLM with good MAB or ... name your jobs] and a part time healer/keyer and you can effectively do just about any Abyssea camp with mobs that aggro/link (otherwise kill speed will be way too slow). Won't be some great/grand exp but in about 1.5hr, you walk everyone out with the 20 merits that you each need for that AA run. Abyssea zone/mob choices, I won't tell you but it's not hard to figure that out [there are just way too many to choose].

[detlef]

I agree in theory that you should be killing much faster when you party up. However, I would argue that there aren't really very many camps in Adoulin with sufficient mob density/respawn to be able to handle a real XP party with bad intentions. I would love for there to be one or ten of them, as this would give us some serious options.


Been to the few zones that was added in the last 2-3 updates?


There are plenty of other camps that would work. The key is will your party be willing to take on the risk of the harder mobs or not (we're talking about a lot of these will and can 1 shot you even with 119 gears). More risk = more reward and faster merit session.I made the claim that there are virtually no XP camps that support even a half-competent group. You asked if I'd checked the newer zones, as if we are barely aware of the what lies beyond West Adoulin. Then you gave me a camp that works for 1 strong DD and a healer and might work for 2 DDs and also qualified it by saying that any kind of disruption will kill your chain.

And then the second example you give is Abyssea. When the discussion is about teaming up instead of using Trust, Abyssea is a terrible example.

If you're going to make the claim that there are existing camps that work well for XP PTs, then why post if all you're going to share is a mediocre (and oft-used) camp and Abyssea?

[Dreamin]

I've said I wont give out my current/latest camp but will give you older camp and one of them support up to 2 DDs. The abyssea one was in response to the other people as to keeping secret on exp camp and not willing to help others. So I gave an example of where you can help a ton of ppl just with 1-2 active ppl in abyssea.

Seriously, for the latest camps, if you just run through some of the newer zones you will see where a lot of camps can be possible. It wont be a compact not having to move type of camp but rather a moving camp similar to the old bird merit camp. You might have to mix in different mob types (i.e. rabbits/worms) to keep chain going but they are out there.

You want another camp that I used to use, you can go up to Yorcia and kill Snapweeds+Monkey (and sometimes mushroom heads too). Access might be a problem depending on your server's waypoint situation. So if you have to start from FS you might have to get thruogh some Lairs to get to the more ideal camp site.

[Elathia]

Hello,

You might remember me from a topic I made a while ago (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/39218-New-player-getting-overwhelmed-what-do-I-do). I was a new player just starting out. It's been about a month now, and I just can't find myself logging in anymore.
So it seems you only played for a couple of months. I played since 2004 and quite maybe 6-7 times. Game was vastly different back then.



I played for one month and grinded out like crazy, and accomplished a lot. However, recently, I've just been absolutely burnt out after doing all of it.
Took you a few months to burn out, but took most of us 10 yrs.



Things I accomplished:

-Level 99 SMN, didn't go to Abyssea until 75; Geomancer is like 93 or something
-Nation mission rank 6, Dynamis unlocked and farmed on multiple days
-Zilart beginning
-Aht Urhgan complete, Alexander/Odin
-Chains of Promathia complete
-Zoned into Wings of the Goddess at like level 50, got eaten by a random mob, didn't go back
-3 pieces of 109 AF armor, along with some relic armor
-Barely touched Abyssea "progression", never managed to kill a single zone boss
-Completed various other quests (max gobbiebag, all avatars including Fenrir, Evoker's Ring, the list goes on) along with farming/hunting for various SMN specific items
-Did not touch Adoulin; never got a good reason to go there, wanted to explore it with friends, but friends got burnt out and quit before we even got that far. Beyond that, from the looks of it, it looks like more time gated content (coalition?) and all the other things above seemed to provide better armor/items/worth than Adoulin.

Far more than I've accomplished in 10 years. Frankly new players got it made and shouldn't quit.



the only party content I've done is EXP (with like 1-2 people) or Dynamis with 1 other friend. Keep in mind, a LOT of doing all of this was time spent researching. I have to understand pretty much the majority of every aspect of this 11 year old game to find out where to get certain items, how the missions work, where I have to go, etc. Learning it all at once gets extremely complex (as a new player, look at the login rewards; you will have NO IDEA what 90% of the stuff is).

There is 11 years worth of information readily available for all. FFXI is probably the most documented MMO in history. Even when I came back, I had no trouble catching up due to all the information out there. Sounds like you're rushing. Don't.



The reason why I didn't party up is the requirements. I spent nearly every day working on all those requirements to get ready. If I wasn't "working" on all that, I was exping with friends, or helping them out with the various tasks they needed help with (they have their own list of things they need to do). Also, keep in mind I couldn't do a lot of the stuff by myself, or didn't know how, but thankfully, I got help from a couple nice people.
This is a critical mistake ANY FFXI should not make. New or old. If you play to catch up, you will not enjoy yourself. Friends will leave you behind, but the real friends are the ones that will help you when you need it.


After all this, the only things I read on the forums are old players saying they SHOULDN'T remove all these requirements or make it faster. They are saying that people should HAVE to take all this time doing the stories and such. Example from another thread:

I don't agree with them. Indeed times have changed and some of those requirements do need to be removed. Most of what SE has implemented to make things a little less stressing was a welcome change at least to me.




If I was someone who was lazy, and just wanted everything handed to me/instantly... I would not have taken the effort to do all of that.
I guess some of them forgot what a real lazy player is. Boy I got some horror stories for you!



-Level 99 THF, didn't go to Abyssea until 75
-Nation rank 2
-Got to Aht Urhgan to unlock Corsair, did not touch the missions
-Did not touch Chains of Promathia
-Did not get ANY AF, not even the low level
-Did not max Gobbiebag, no other important achievements to note
-Never touched Adoulin

... and he quit. Why? Cause a lot of this is boring. It's work.

Or maybe because Rank 3 requires help. All those matters required help. That THF(a job that had it rough in the early years) most likely had HELL getting help. That is one of the reasons I quit so much.



New players do not want to, and should not have to, go through all this.
I agree. But I'm thinking on a wider range.



I'm going to say that the old players need to stop looking at this game through nostalgia goggles. Times have changed. The game is not the same as it was before. You need to accept change, and move forward, or this game is going to suffer. There are a LOT of things that could be changed, and should be changed, for the game to move forward and prosper for years to come. However, it doesn't help when the majority of the community is straight up rude to new players, or thinks that it's right for them to "suffer the same way they did in the past." The response to practically anything I say is "YOU KNOW IT WAS SO MUCH HARDER IN THE PAST, YOU SHOULD STOP COMPLAINING." I spent a lot of time arguing/discussing various topics (mythic weapons, mission requirements, etc) with people on this forum, and boy, it's been an uphill battle. So many people want all the requirements to stay, and if you don't like it, "too bad this isn't the game for you." I still think this quote is hilarious:
I can't speak for other old players on this, but I look at the game through nostalgia glasses, and I think to myself that I'm glad those days are behind me. If I wanted to start over fresh, sure the "need help" missions are still there, but EXPing is no longer an event, and that's huge. Once again, you new players got it made. And it was harder back then. You have no freaking idea at all. Some of the stuff you want(and stuff I want) technically you don't need because they are obsolete.



Why does a "rush to end game" exist?
snip

You're not 'forced' to do old content. And don't rush.

I never finished CoP
I never finished TOAU
I don't really care for WoTG
SoA doesn't interest me.

It took 4 years to get my first 75 job(this was normal back then heh).
I just like to log in, kill mobs and enjoy myself. Everything has left me in the past, but I don't care.

Think about your enjoyment.

[Camiie]

Unless you're paying my monthly fee, I'm not required to help anyone in any way, shape or form.

Which only reinforces what I said. Kindness, compassion, and generosity are generally expressed by helping others without obligation or expectation of reward.


Especially like others have said, I've spent my own time and found these camps and if I don't feel like sharing with the open public so everyone and their mother and their trusts will come kill my chain. It is no one else's business. I dont mind sharing ideas on how to find the appropriate camp for others (i.e. party size/strength/weakness are the key parameters one need to understands and accepted).

You don't mind sharing as long as there is no detriment to yourself. You're still just reinforcing my point.


I'll throw a freebie to you here.

Personally I don't need anything you might have to offer. I've been playing for years. It's new players I worry for when they see how purely self-serving veteran players are to the point where even decent XP camps are kept secret for fear that there might actually be social interaction in a multiplayer game.


If you have a group of people who needs a lot of merits (AA KI) and only 1 or 2 people can be active and the rest needs to afk and you just dont want to suffer the 200-300xp/mob + RoE exp bonus on lower level mobs, you can take a MNK (just load him up with EVA) [or BLU with good Thunder gears, or BLM with good MAB or ... name your jobs] and a part time healer/keyer and you can effectively do just about any Abyssea camp with mobs that aggro/link (otherwise kill speed will be way too slow). Won't be some great/grand exp but in about 1.5hr, you walk everyone out with the 20 merits that you each need for that AA run. Abyssea zone/mob choices, I won't tell you but it's not hard to figure that out [there are just way too many to choose].

Go to an Abyssea zone on a JOB and kill monsters. Well I guess that's... something.

[Dreamin]

Wow, the big I'm a selfless person post. Didn't know that only passionate/compassion/kind ppl are allowed to pay a monthly fee so that they can spend their free time however they wanted to spend them. When I want to truly help people, I donate to the Red Cross/United Ways/local food bank/etc. I'm sorry, like most people, my playing time is limited, so I value how I spend my playing time and I spend them on what my current goal is. I don't play for other ppl and I certainly hope no one else is playing for me.

[Mirage]

No one is really selfless anyway. If you dig deep enough, you can always find selfish reasons to why you are doing nice things to others.

I do nice things to others because i want them to enjoy the game because if the game has more players, it will remain healthy and online for a longer period of time. The game being shut down is not in my own best interest. Players that quit out of frustration from inability to progress don't make the game stay alive.

[detlef]

Wow, the big I'm a selfless person post. Didn't know that only passionate/compassion/kind ppl are allowed to pay a monthly fee so that they can spend their free time however they wanted to spend them. When I want to truly help people, I donate to the Red Cross/United Ways/local food bank/etc. I'm sorry, like most people, my playing time is limited, so I value how I spend my playing time and I spend them on what my current goal is. I don't play for other ppl and I certainly hope no one else is playing for me.I don't really care about how nice you are. I just think that you did not refute my claim that there is an inadequate number of XP camps with sufficient mob density and XP per kill sufficient to encourage people to group up instead of using Trust NPCs.

[Crevox]

it is to me when I wanted to keep my chain going and not get wasted by some trusters who typically kill slow enough to just disrupt chain. difference between 700-800 exp vs 1.4k-1.6k on chain make my meriting session go a lot faster.

And this EXP beats Abyssea parties? I remember getting 200k/hr in Abyssea, sometimes 300k+ if the party was good.

[Camiie]

Wow, the big I'm a selfless person post.

I never said I was, so I dunno where you're getting that from.


Didn't know that only passionate/compassion/kind ppl are allowed to pay a monthly fee so that they can spend their free time however they wanted to spend them.

You can do what you want, but that doesn't preclude me saying that we look like a bunch of anti-social jerks when people act like you and those who defended you. You want to take a stand then you have to take the criticism.


When I want to truly help people, I donate to the Red Cross/United Ways/local food bank/etc.

That's highly commendable, but don't make this in to a big I'm a selfless person post.


I'm sorry, like most people, my playing time is limited, so I value how I spend my playing time and I spend them on what my current goal is. I don't play for other ppl and I certainly hope no one else is playing for me.

Like I said, do what you want but there are consequences when much of the community has that mentality.

[Eyeballed]

Behold the kind, compassionate, and generous FFXI community at work.

Remember that guide I wrote back in January? In my own LS I direct all the newbies and returning players to it, yet 99.9% of them end up asking questions that are clearly covered in it and I end up repeating myself till I'm blue in the face.

There's a FFXI wiki also that some blatantly refuse to investigate; All they want is someone to hold their hand all the way through the game and it's damn bothersome.

[Crevox]

Remember that guide I wrote back in January? In my own LS I direct all the newbies and returning players to it, yet 99.9% of them end up asking questions that are clearly covered in it and I end up repeating myself till I'm blue in the face.

There's a FFXI wiki also that some blatantly refuse to investigate; All they want is someone to hold their hand all the way through the game and it's damn bothersome.

I was going to respond to this, but after thinking about it, I don't even know what to say.

[Demonjustin]

Remember that guide I wrote back in January? In my own LS I direct all the newbies and returning players to it, yet 99.9% of them end up asking questions that are clearly covered in it and I end up repeating myself till I'm blue in the face.

There's a FFXI wiki also that some blatantly refuse to investigate; All they want is someone to hold their hand all the way through the game and it's damn bothersome.Some things on the wiki are flat out confusing, also not everyone can read something and instantly pick it up with no issues. I don't feel like going into a big long rant on why exactly it's stupid to expect everyone to learn everything super easy from a single guide or for someone to learn everything off wiki by looking it up instantly, but let me cover some examples.

Pankration, simple enough event once you understand, but if you went to wiki and looked it up as I did when I first heard about it(about 2~3 years ago, literally my first or second day after going to Aht for the first time) you wouldn't have understood any of it at all, and been at a total loss as I was most likely.

ZNMs, same as Pankration, confused me to no end originally, I tried to understand, but there were so many things involved it simply made no sense, I did not know what Imperial Standing was, I thought it was a kind of fame originally, I also had no idea how to obtain the currency, and had no idea what Jettons were, all which seemed to be tied to this system in a way that confounded me.

I have had tons of people tell me Dynamis and its procing system was confusing as all **** and they were unable to understand it, though even just tonight, I went through with a returning player who has only been back a few weeks, and has been trying to farm without TEs, without Procing, and been doing terribly, since last time they played was in the 75 days and they have no idea what they are doing. In a hour of helping them I explained TEs, procing, showed them the cycles to do in Valk, explained when to change mobs, a few tips on how to keep track of certain things or how to more easily pull a good amount of currency, in general I explained the event to them and helped them learn it. They were not stupid, they picked it up quickly & easily.

People often absorb information much easier through experience and by being told about it in a way that they can ask questions and get instant responses, rather than a static guide that can answer nothing outside of what is written within, or a wiki that can be confusing to navigate when you don't know what to even look for to get what you want from it. Yes, some people are just not trying, asking you for every little detail and refusing to even try it on their own, others are likely to actually be looking for a better way to learn or understand, and aren't getting what they need in the guide or wiki you provide them, even if to you, that question is answered within it.



TLDR: Not everyone learns the same, to expect it is foolish. Not everyone wants a hand holder, but rather, some want a dynamic method of learning that can answer to their questions and needs, rather than a simple guide.

[Camiie]

Remember that guide I wrote back in January? In my own LS I direct all the newbies and returning players to it, yet 99.9% of them end up asking questions that are clearly covered in it and I end up repeating myself till I'm blue in the face.

There's a FFXI wiki also that some blatantly refuse to investigate; All they want is someone to hold their hand all the way through the game and it's damn bothersome.

If you don't have the patience to deal with people then why play a game that requires doing so? All you've done is describe how people act in real life all the time. How do you deal with them when they're right in front of you and not a thousand miles away?

[Lithera]

Yes but some people also don't ask you and the rest of your LS the same bloody question that gets answered different ways from different people five or more time within five minutes. Those are the types of people who are bothersome and makes you want to strangle them through the screen.

Going to the guy who hadn't been in dyna since the 75 days how did they not know what a TE was? Were they not paying attention during their runs or not understanding how it worked back then? Or am I misunderstanding in assuming he had done dynamis back then? I mean sure it was easy to not pay to what was going on back then, even had a guy who went afk for most of a run a few times. Just baffles me anyone who did dynamis back then wouldn't understand how a 30 min event stretched out to a 3hr event once inside without being booted before then.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Yes but some people also don't ask you and the rest of your LS the same bloody question that gets answered different ways from different people five or more time within five minutes.

Then just /breaklinkshell and get on with your life.

If the publishers aren't adequately explaining the game well enough for new(ish) players, there's no reason for that to be your problem to deal with. You're paying them, not vice versa, so unless you feel that complaining about other players on these forums is worth your entertainment dollars, go do something else.

[Lithera]

This wasn't my linkshell to break and it was back around 2005. This was how they were when asking about anything every day inside the LS or through shouts. When unless their chat window is scrolling like mad at least one example of what to do to get to the zone they wanted to get to should have been still on their screen if they popped it open without having to scroll back. They also were not new to the game.

[Demonjustin]

Going to the guy who hadn't been in dyna since the 75 days how did they not know what a TE was?I would assume it's a combo of not having played in years and Dynamis having changed so much. I can't really say, I didn't exactly ask him, all I know is he told me he was trying to farm Hopes in Dynamis Xarc and asked if I wanted to join him since Dynamis only takes an hour, which obviously made me question why he thought the event was an hour long, and once he told me he didn't know how to extend it longer and thought that it was just a hour long, I just told him I would do a run with him and teach him about the event. But in all honesty, Dynamis did change a ton, you said yourself that the time went from 3 hours to 2 hours, who's to say they didn't lower it to 1 hour? I admit he could have found it out on wiki, but it goes back to the learning thing I was talking about, in the end, I find it easy to believe he just didn't know, even though he did do Dyna way back when.

Now when it comes to people who ask the same question over and over, and are answered each time but fail to use the knowledge to do what they are trying to do, those are the kind of people I simply ignore. The thing is, I find that generally, people aren't like this, I have had very few people in this game I have ever helped that did not seem to at least give an honest effort on their part to learn what they needed to. I will not say they don't exist, I have met a few, but they are far fewer than those who legitimately need help and will use it to its fullest.

[Lithera]

Ahh the old haven't done said event in a long time thus brain goes derp bit. Yes, most people I have helped over the years were not as bad as the person I mentioned and coming close to spaming chat with the same question in a zone that doesn't normally get much shout chat and didn't zone is indeed a rarity. Though have had my share of people who make you go how do you not understand instructions your average six year old could even follow over the years.

[Ritsuka]

They have not completed CoP. They simply do not want to do it.

There is no "help" when it comes to CoP unless you're doing one of the like 2 missions that require two people. It is a long, arduous, painful journey of auto-run (the R button) and warping from place to place. Having more than one person would only make it take longer; the best anyone can do for you is talk to you while you do it so it's not as boring.

You could enjoy the story. I liked COP's story line taru its good ^_^
That's what role playing games are about the story

[Crevox]

You could enjoy the story. I liked COP's story line taru its good ^_^
That's what role playing games are about the story

The story was great. It just takes forever to get to the story parts of the missions due to the large amount of tedious tasks in between. If I could just do story cutscene, fight, cutscene, fight one after another in tandem, then it would be fantastic.

[Raydeus]

The story was great. It just takes forever to get to the story parts of the missions due to the large amount of tedious tasks in between. If I could just do story cutscene, fight, cutscene, fight one after another in tandem, then it would be fantastic.

Yikes, that's precisely what I hate about WoW clones nowadays.

But on the bright side you'll probably love XIV.

[Crevox]

Yikes, that's precisely what I hate about WoW clones nowadays.

But on the bright side you'll probably love XIV.

Do you enjoy the hours of running between the cutscenes? What makes the intermediary part so appealing?

This is an honest question. I do not understand why people will argue that content like that should remain. It's just not fun, and the people that argue it agree that it's not fun, yet for some reason think it should still exist in a game.

No one wants to give me a straight answer; they always dodge and then tell me I'm just whining, or I should just do it, or something else (aka they just troll me).

[Zarchery]

Do you enjoy the hours of running between the cutscenes? What makes the intermediary part so appealing?

This is an honest question. I do not understand why people will argue that content like that should remain. It's just not fun, and the people that argue it agree that it's not fun, yet for some reason think it should still exist in a game.

Do you just not conceive of the idea that people have different personalities than you and aren't nearly as wound up about all this? You have been whining about this CONSTANTLY for weeks. You didn't like the game, so you burnt out and quit after 2 months, and it looks like you're on target to spend at least twice that long complaining about it. You go on and on about how the game needs to change to attract new players. It's such an egotistical position. Like new players are some precious commodity that the game needs to survive, and that the developers should bend over backwards to attract and accommodate. For what? So that they can attract more impatient, whiny neurotics like you who burn out and quit after a few months? Sounds like a real money maker.

You can't figure out how to do something. We tell you there's multiple resources out there that tells you exactly what to do, you say "But I don't wanna use that!!".

You say you don't understand what the game jargon means. We tell you that you can ask someone, but you say "I don't wanna do that!".

You say you don't want to do missions as a prerequisite to do certain fights. We tell you that the prerequisites are easy and you can just not do the fights if you don't want to do the prerequisites. You say "I don't wanna do that!"

You want the entire game to bend to your whims because you couldn't accomplish your every goal in 2 months of play. You have no patience, and you're so self absorbed that you think you're some precious commodity the developers should dote over.

SE has already given us so much to attract and retain new players. Incredibly easy XP at all levels. Great gear that you can get with almost no effort via Records of Eminence. Multiple easy revenue streams for earning gil. Reductions in fame requirements for important quests like Gobbiebag. Alternative ways to complete gobbiebag. The list goes on. But no matter how much they give, someone always wants more. And they always think they deserve it because "SE needs to attract new players".

There always have been and always will be players who just don't like this game. SE accepts that this is not for everyone. It's just that certain players can't accept that.

[Zarchery]

So let me say something about "new players" versus "old players".

I have played off and on since July 2004. I am by all accounts, an old player. I know the game pretty well and can answer a lot of questions. But I was once a new player too. And I asked questions. And I got answers. But I also TRIED. Back in 2004 when I wanted to get through Bastok missions, I went to Allakazham and read up mission descriptions and what I had to do. I soloed what I could and got help when I needed help to kill something. Some of today's players would just start out at rank 1 and ask "Hey how do I get to rank 10?"

Look, I accept that the game doesn't give you much information in game to figure stuff out. And I think there's room for improvement there. But the resources to find these things out are out there, free of charge.

I'll help if it sounds like someone has put in some effort and got a little lost. But thing is... I did research online to find things out. If you won't, you're insulting me by saying your time is more valuable than mine.

Besides that, there's just the aspect of the VOLUME of help required. I'm in a pretty big linkshell, and several times a day someone comes asking for help. And it's usually not something quick. Usually it's something that's gonna take 30 minutes minimum, sometimes a few hours. But I pay my dues too. I want to play the game to accomplish my goals too. I can't always drop everything to help someone, particularly if that help is something they could do on their own with a little reading and research.

I'm just sick of this "us versus them" mentality that some players have. That veteran players have a duty to drop what they're doing at any time and help someone in need. I once helped a guy do the level 60 limit break quest, which BTW is entirely soloable because there is no combat involved. He wasted a ton of my time because he didn't have the waypoint warps, or any of the recall telepoints, or even a chocobo license. It pissed me off because I felt taken advantage of by a guy who just was not willing to put in any effort.

But here's another point that nobody else has brought up. With the updates coming out every 1 or 2 months, we're all "new players" at some point. A few weeks ago, Outer Ra'kaznar was introduced. Every single player was on equal footing that day. Some pioneers figured out how to get there. I'm not really sure how the first players figure this stuff out. That knowledge was posted on web sites and wikis and passed around. I had to ask people how to get there. I got lost in Ra'Kaznar for a while trying to find the Colonization Reives and had to ask a guy who had got there a day before me how to get to the lower level. He sent me a link to a marked up map on the Internet that someone else had made. I was a new player. We all were. But by God we worked together and figured it out. And we made the knowledge available. What I could have done, if I'd had the piss poor attitude of some new players, is stomp and say "IT'S NOT FAIR!!!! I CAN'T FIND MY WAY AROUND OUTER RAKAZNAR!!! I QUIT!!!"

[Crevox]

More assumptions and labeling out of you, as always. It's the same every time you post, Zarchery. You don't read what anyone says and just say whatever you want to say, and believe whatever you want to believe.

You shouldn't be on a forum if you don't want to discuss things and just want to talk talk talk talk talk.

After this being like the tenth time this has happened with you, I'm putting you on ignore now.

[Xantavia]

Do you enjoy the hours of running between the cutscenes? What makes the intermediary part so appealing?

This is an honest question. I do not understand why people will argue that content like that should remain. It's just not fun, and the people that argue it agree that it's not fun, yet for some reason think it should still exist in a game.

No one wants to give me a straight answer; they always dodge and then tell me I'm just whining, or I should just do it, or something else (aka they just troll me).
What I like is exploring the world. Traveling to the next area and admiring the scenery is a huge draw for me. Finding the stuff that make the zone unique has me stopping and taking screenshots (or going back later in specific gear to take a sweet picture). Before abyssea, there were mobs that just weren't common and may have only existed in 1 or 2 zones. You fight it see what it fights like, see if it drops anything you could use. Before it became a jugmaster, this is how you could find a nice solo area for leveling bst. Tabbing around, I might find a ??? on the ground. If nothing happens, I'll check a wiki to see what it is for. If it happens to be something for a quest I have flagged along the way, I might eat dirt. (Thank you Temple of Ugly, for wiping me and 2 friends thanks to my insatiable curiosity).

I've got a majority of my jobs at 99, but most of those were done solo. Yes, I've done the abyssea (70+ only) parties, I've done a few Crawlers Nest parties, but most of the time it was me and my fellow. If you search a zone on the way to a CS, I'm that one guy hanging out there. Killing pots and diremites in Pso'Xja because I like the architecture of the place. Fighting malboros and hippogryffs in Riverne thanks to the floating rocks in the background. Training mobs in Movapalos because they always manage to see me when I'm in battle with one.

For you the running between cutscenes is a roadblock. For me, it is opening up possibilities of stuff to do in the future.

[Crevox]

What I like is exploring the world. Traveling to the next area and admiring the scenery is a huge draw for me. Finding the stuff that make the zone unique has me stopping and taking screenshots (or going back later in specific gear to take a sweet picture). Before abyssea, there were mobs that just weren't common and may have only existed in 1 or 2 zones. You fight it see what it fights like, see if it drops anything you could use. Before it became a jugmaster, this is how you could find a nice solo area for leveling bst. Tabbing around, I might find a ??? on the ground. If nothing happens, I'll check a wiki to see what it is for. If it happens to be something for a quest I have flagged along the way, I might eat dirt. (Thank you Temple of Ugly, for wiping me and 2 friends thanks to my insatiable curiosity).

I've got a majority of my jobs at 99, but most of those were done solo. Yes, I've done the abyssea (70+ only) parties, I've done a few Crawlers Nest parties, but most of the time it was me and my fellow. If you search a zone on the way to a CS, I'm that one guy hanging out there. Killing pots and diremites in Pso'Xja because I like the architecture of the place. Fighting malboros and hippogryffs in Riverne thanks to the floating rocks in the background. Training mobs in Movapalos because they always manage to see me when I'm in battle with one.

For you the running between cutscenes is a roadblock. For me, it is opening up possibilities of stuff to do in the future.

This is a good, reasonable response, thank you.

The question I have then is... if you enjoy it, and you do this stuff anyways, do you really need a set of missions like CoP to direct you to do it? I suppose for you it's a case of either "I don't mind it because of this" or "I would be doing this anyways, and now I can do both at the same time."

I guess you could say it's also potentially just giving you a sense of direction when performing such tasks?

[Xantavia]

You could say it is a sense of direction, forcing me to get out of my comfort zones early on. Its a different game now than when I started, but I can see the missions serving the same sort of purpose experience parties used too pre-sync. Being forced to move camp was my introduction to many places on the initial climb to 75. Traveling to the dunes starting at windurst, running as party to qufim island for the first time. I had never actually visited bastok until a party decided to head for korraloka tunnel. I was given directions to Garlaige citadel by a party waiting for me, and my ls pointed me in the direction of getting keys for Kazham parties. Aht Urghan I was a bit more independent, fumbling my way around solo as a 30mnk on my quest to unlock blu, but imp and troll parties helped in getting staging points for AF.

With the leveling nowadays consisting of gusgen mines (maybe) and abyssea leeching, I think it can only benefit players to travel all over the world SE has created. They may just discover there is more to the world than just a handful of endgame areas.

[Kincard]

For me, travel is part of the immersion and scale of the world. Being able to teleport anywhere from anywhere like in XIV truly makes the game feel like...a game, a theme park. I kinda like the scale in an RPG. It's part of the reason why I also liked things like flight paths in WoW- just watching your character swoop across areas you've already explored on feet in the air...really cool feeling for me.

[Zarchery]

After this being like the tenth time this has happened with you, I'm putting you on ignore now.

I highly doubt you have that kind of restraint. If you did, you wouldn't be complaining so much about a game you're allegedly finished with.

You may not realize this, but you're hardly unique. Malcontents like you have been ragequitting, saying "I'm done with this game", posting endlessly in forums about all the faults with the game and how it needs to adjust to your liking or die, for the past 10 years.

[Inafking]

This game has lots of balance and progression issues, don't let the trolls tell you different. They're probably all one fat jackass in his basement.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6qka8ijB51rpl29so2_500.jpg

[Mirage]

Do you enjoy the hours of running between the cutscenes? What makes the intermediary part so appealing?

This is an honest question. I do not understand why people will argue that content like that should remain. It's just not fun, and the people that argue it agree that it's not fun, yet for some reason think it should still exist in a game.

No one wants to give me a straight answer; they always dodge and then tell me I'm just whining, or I should just do it, or something else (aka they just troll me).

As some others have said, for me, it is the scale of the world that does it. Vanadiel is a very large world, especially considering when the game was made. Although I agree that some missions and quests are a bit extreme on the legwork stuff, I think it's important that when you have a large world, the players should get a real feel of how big it is. The screen fading out and fading back in at the destination doesn't really give any real sense of what sort of distances are involved, it just makes the world feel small. A lot of work was put into some of the areas in this game, and I think it would be a shame for all that stuff to be lost on the majority of the players, and I think the developers deserve that we actually experience most of what they spent so much time creating. Over the years, there have been many reasons to explore the game other than *just* seeing scenery. There used to be a lot of NMs in remote areas, there used to be a lot more minor quests with relevant rewards, there used to be areas you went to just to gain experience, then there was also areas you went to, or went through to complete the main storylines. Nowadays, there's almost no reasons to go to most of these areas, except the missions. They're kind of the only incentive left that makes new players go out and look around.

Again, I'll agree that some quests and missions are a bit too heavy on the walking, but there is sort of a recurring theme in this game that you first get your patience tested and then rewarded if you put up with it. I didn't like climbing parradamo tor when the game made me do it, but when i finally got to the top and saw the sunset from there, i actually felt that it was worth the trouble. It is sort of like if you are mountain hiking. Walking up the steep hills and getting exhausted isn't really "fun", at least not to me, however, the feeling when you are standing at the top of the mountain and are finally done with the hard part, that really does feel great. Of course, doing it in a game isn't really near how it feels in real life, but I think the game tries to capture at least a tiny bit of the same feeling. It felt special because it's not something you can just experience whenever you want to, as you can't (or couldn't, at least) just teleport there instantly anytime you felt like seeing it. If you wanted to see it, you had to take your time and walk up there. There's a lot of places like that in the game, and it's one of the things, I think, that sets (or used to set) the game apart from a lot of other MMOs, for better or for worse.

Like you said, it's not always "fun", as in it will make you feel great the entire time while doing it. It's more like an investment. Not all people like that sort of thing, but some do, and I have a feeling that many of the players that stuck with FFXI through all of these years are fine with this model. It's not for everyone, but it is for some people. Not all games cater to the same audience, just like not all movies cater to the same audience. If the naked gun 1 wasn't your cup of tea, you probably shouldn't try the two sequels, right? Your preferred sort of entertainment isn't wrong just because it's something that most others don't like, but that doesn't mean your flavor is "bad", as this is a subjective thing entirely.

Hope I made at least a bit of sense up there.

[Cabalabob]

So I have a question for you OP, I read your edit where you ask why we play? And you say you play because you want to play with friends. If that's true, why are you in such a rush to skip the game and get to where everyone else is? Why not just enjoy the content available to you and your friends?

When me and my friends started playing we were happy doing the missions while levelling up and exploring as far as we could. Eventually we heard shouts for BCNM's in places, one of which we recognised from our explorations, the palbrough mines. We spent months trying to find the burning circle in palbrough, levelling up to explore deeper, obtaining the map so we knew where we were, eventually finding the burning circle and not knowing what to do with it, we asked someone who entered, he told us to go to jeuno, we had our new goal..

I'll stop there as I'm sure you don't want to hear my characters life story, but the point is we didn't just install the game, go to the wiki, find out that dynamis was the last content, burn ourselves to 75 and complete all the relevant content to get dynamis. We enjoyed what we had. And because of that, getting to a burning circle battle, something you'd probably accomplish in an hour, took us 3 months. And we enjoyed every minute of it.

[Mirage]

For me, travel is part of the immersion and scale of the world. Being able to teleport anywhere from anywhere like in XIV truly makes the game feel like...a game, a theme park. I kinda like the scale in an RPG. It's part of the reason why I also liked things like flight paths in WoW- just watching your character swoop across areas you've already explored on feet in the air...really cool feeling for me.

Flight paths are way cooler than instant teleports for sure

[Raydeus]

Do you enjoy the hours of running between the cutscenes? What makes the intermediary part so appealing?

As a matter of fact I do very much enjoy "traveling between cutscenes".

But I'm the kind of player who will rarely use fast travel in games like Fallout or Elder Scrolls. And I usually take some time getting missions and quests done, so I never have the issues someone impatiently rushing through it all would have.


This is an honest question. I do not understand why people will argue that content like that should remain. It's just not fun, and the people that argue it agree that it's not fun, yet for some reason think it should still exist in a game.

No one wants to give me a straight answer; they always dodge and then tell me I'm just whining, or I should just do it, or something else (aka they just troll me).

It varies from player to player, but to me it's because that kind of content makes the world feel bigger and it makes activities feel like a trip and an adventure rather than just a grind.

For instance, back in the day it could take half an hour to get to sky or sea, and then then another half an hour to get to where the event/fight/etc. was actually happening. And that, believe it or not, made the event feel special. You weren't just grinding mobs but you were adventuring to the deepest parts of a remote region of Vana. A region where you could easily die if you weren't careful or didn't have a party to watch your back.

And most of the times you were doing these events, missions and quests for the story and the adventure rather than the reward. Because most mission/quest rewards while decent were rarely worth the time if you were only in it for them and not the story.

Which is of course something unthinkable for "modern" players that are used to teleporting to an instance through a raid finder and be done with it in less than 20 minutes in the Skinner box model.

Also, I play MMOs with the expectation of playing for years, so it was normal to get the next mission a week or a month later, since I had plenty of stuff to do and get sidetracked with in the mean time. Nowadays games are cleared in a matter of days, and rarely anyone sticks with an MMO for more than 6 months before jumping to the next one, only resubbing for the next expansion which they will finish less than a week later.

But in the end it's all a matter of personal preference. If you don't enjoy XI then you could try XIV, which again seems much more your type of game. Just don't expect it to have the depth or longevity a game like XI does.

[Crevox]

The thing is, new players aren't going to want to do all that running, let alone try to figure it out or look it up on wikis. Gaming has changed, and gamers have different expectations of games now. Whether or not you want to believe it, FFXI won't hold a new player's attention for very long once they realize what they have to go through, unless they are really, really dedicated for some other reason. I mean, just look at the main post. About 6 different people I know that I started the game with all quit (and didn't complete any missions, though they tried and got extremely bored). The most you'll see out of new players is leveling to 99 off of mythical worm party, maybe get some steps into Adoulin, and then that's it.

The thing is, there are tons of changes that could be done that would make the game enjoyable. This game has such a high number of playable jobs, and the party play is actually very good and has huge potential, but the game itself holds it back from reaching that potential. Archaic requirements, time gates, difficulty to find party content outside of leveling when you're not 99 (and little point to people to party when leveling thanks to trust); these things cause problems. If SE streamlined things a bit, people could see the game for what it truly is... but after months of playing, I never even reached party play outside of leveling due to all the requirements I had to go through, and no one is going to be that patient.

If it was my decision, I would remove the mission requirements from content, unlock all the jobs by default, and just let players go and do whatever they want. The game has so much content blocked behind walls. Just open it all up and let people have fun. You can go ahead and do CoP if you want, if that's your thing, but that's the great part: you have a choice.


But I'm the kind of player who will rarely use fast travel in games like Fallout or Elder Scrolls. And I usually take some time getting missions and quests done, so I never have the issues someone impatiently rushing through it all would have.

The same can be done in modern MMORPGs, in higher detail and graphics. Players aren't going to choose FFXI over FFXIV or WoW or anything else just for this. Also, if you enjoy it, it's a choice; it shouldn't be a requirement of all players. Players should be able to either warp to the location they need to reach, or take the scenic route and enjoy seeing everything along the way. There, you have the best of both worlds (or just leave it how it is and remove the content as a requirement for critical 2014 current content).


it makes activities feel like a trip and an adventure rather than just a grind.

It feels like a grind as is due to the ridiculous amount of time it takes. Leveling didn't feel like a grind to me; what felt like a grind was doing the missions. Leveling was enjoyable, I had fun. I may find different things enjoyable than you (and that's perfectly fine), but there's no reason missions can't appeal to both of us. I want to get it out of the way as a requirement (and while the story is enjoyable, the in-between running and stuff takes far too long), and you want to take the time to explore and enjoy the scenery. Different people play this game for different reasons, and SE is just ignoring that and forcing everyone through the same path, even newbies. If they could speed it up a bit, or just remove it as a requirement so we can make the choice to go and experience it all at some time of our own leisure, then there's nothing wrong with it. I was planning to do CoP at some point because I wanted to see it all, and play through the same stuff everyone else did in the past, but I was cut short and forced to prematurely. That's not fun.


don't expect it to have the depth or longevity a game like XI does.

The longevity and depth of XI mostly comes from how long it takes to do things. The majority of the time I spent playing was catching up on missions so I could actually play the game with other people. Skirmish, Dynamis, and other "high level" content don't actually take that long to clear or get the rewards you desire from. It's certainly better off in terms of longevity than XIV, but people don't ever reach that point due to ~10 year old content being a wall between you and the 2014 content (AA, Zilart, Dynamis, ARMOR, etc).


And you say you play because you want to play with friends. If that's true, why are you in such a rush to skip the game and get to where everyone else is? Why not just enjoy the content available to you and your friends?

What content? CoP? As I said, CoP is not "playing with friends." If you want to do missions with a friend, you're only going to make it worse for everyone involved. You are both basically just playing a single player game, going "okay now we have to warp here, okay now we have to go there." After spending hours of doing this, eventually, probably sooner than you'd expect, ONE of you is going to be done with it for the moment. Either they need a break, they need to go to sleep, they need to go somewhere, who knows. So, what do you do? Do you all stop and wait for the person? If you do that, it's only going to take even longer before you finish the missions, and catch up on the current content and be able to play with everyone else. You could go on without him, but then you're all on different stages of the missions before long, and then you're truly all just playing by yourselves. Not long after that, in either scenario, people are going to end up quitting.

It sucks having to tell your friends "hey guys, we can't fight any monsters or do anything fun and interesting for the next couple weeks, because we have to do all these missions first. Yeah, I know it sucks, but we have to do it, because we can't join any parties until we do, and we need the armor as well, so we don't have a choice." Next couple weeks is also probably a bit generous considering the amount of play time people who work and go to school full time have. The thing is, you basically have no choice but to do all this. You can go and level up a new job, or try some Adoulin content, but you still ultimately have to do those missions, and having them sit there with knowledge of them having to be done at some point is just bogus. You're just delaying the inevitable. You can't get the good armor or do a lot of other content until you do it.

And yes, it's not just about playing with friends; it's about being able to play with anyone at all in any current content relevant to the community. People shout in town all the time: AA, WKR, that other new battlefield, and more. You can't join any of that until not only your character has reached the minimum requirements by clearing all the missions, but you also have to be at least competently geared, which is a challenge itself when you can't access content or trade your items for upgraded armor. Yes, spark gear does exist for this purpose as well, but its usefulness will depend on your job (for SMN it's mostly just defense and base stats that do nothing for your avatar besides the delicious sachet) and many people just straight up go "ew spark gear, that guy is a noob" and won't let you come along.


For me, travel is part of the immersion and scale of the world. Being able to teleport anywhere from anywhere like in XIV truly makes the game feel like...a game, a theme park.

A game feeling like a game is a good thing; it's certainly better than it feeling like a job, which is what happens when you try to go get a Mythic weapon, or complete CoP, etc. Yes, that's personal opinion, but the thing is, nothing is stopping you from taking the run from one point to the other in XIV. It's probably about the same run time in XI, and you'll even save money in XIV from doing so, and get to see the scale of the world and all that. Again, back to that original point: you have a choice. This game does not give you a choice.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

For instance, back in the day it could take half an hour to get to sky or sea

And sky ended up having terrible participation rates compared to other content because of it. There are reasons why they put the Limbus entrances at the crags and the Dynamis entrances right inside towns. And even then it took forever to get all the participants to show up in a reasonable amount of time.


and then then another half an hour to get to where the event/fight/etc. was actually happening.

I invite you to go browse some of the old Vana'diel Censuses and observe what the progress/completion rates for CoP were like before the level caps were removed. Other content, for which sneak and invisible were viable, ended up in a situation where participants expected and required the other participants to bring their own sneak and invisible, just to cut down on the hassles (i.e. time duration) of travel.


Also, I play MMOs with the expectation of playing for years

I doubt your sincerity here. Even S-E doubted FFXI would last this long.

[Demonjustin]

Crevox, any chance after they change the price to change servers (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/11859/detail.html) you would be willing to come back to the game and change to Phoenix? I think me and my LS might be able to help you get into the game easier and feel more included. We obviously can't fix all of the issues, but so far as doing party based content, we can easily help with that by simply including you in what we do normally. Since you have stuck around these forums I would assume you still have some interest in the game, I really thinking coming to Phoenix and joining the shell would help. ^_^

[Lithera]

It gives you plenty if choice you don't need reforged anything. Again smn isn't a wanted job but even it can get into a Yorcia skirmish party. If one of the biggest "end game" things is reforging then you're wrong. Yes you stop when the person has to stop. If you can't find something else to do while you or your friend(s) isn't on to continue through which ever mission you are on and can't bloody wait for them; then I'm sorry but you're an awful friend.

Why not just all jobs at 99 if you just want them all unlocked at the start because you know getting to 30 is too hard and slow for some people. There are stories behind every job and sure it makes you have to explore some but hey at least for any jobs that are not in the starter cities you'll find out where you have to go for your AF. If you have all 22 unlocked then unless you use a wiki all but geo and run would have people getting their AF. Why go to Norg, or Aht Urhgan, or the past if those jobs are unlocked day one? I doubt many new players would go and do the various missions if there was no reason to do so.

Just look at Olor who has been playing for three years who is just now touching CoP because they want to reforge gear. They say they might one day finish on their own if it wasn't required, but I doubt it. If only because story isn't big for them, doing the one expansion that doesn't have a butt load of warps and requires you to actually run from place to place seem like it's equal to someone who has to choose either eat for the day or have electricity.

End game content is in no way to be thought of as the only party content. I'm sorry that you feel that is and believe that any other new player will also think this. It's funny for years one of the biggest complaints people had in this game is that you HAD to have a party to do almost anything in this game. Now, that we can pretty much solo anything but the current events people have gone the opposite in thought. I'm sorry, but we obviously can't have our cake and eat it too. SE is doing their best to find a middle ground which even if they do someone will probably still find something to complain about.

[Crevox]

Crevox, any chance after they change the price to change servers (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/11859/detail.html) you would be willing to come back to the game and change to Phoenix? I think me and my LS might be able to help you get into the game easier and feel more included. We obviously can't fix all of the issues, but so far as doing party based content, we can easily help with that by simply including you in what we do normally. Since you have stuck around these forums I would assume you still have some interest in the game, I really thinking coming to Phoenix and joining the shell would help. ^_^

I do still have interest in the game, of course. It's all a matter of when to come back...

I don't know if I'd be so keen on transferring servers. The price is high, but besides that, I'd basically be giving up on my friends ever coming back to the game too. They may or may not play again, but I can be hopeful, and completely abandoning them would hurt. ;|


I doubt many new players would go and do the various missions if there was no reason to do so.

So... they won't do it because it's not fun. So... force them to do it even though it's not fun, so that they have to experience it even though they don't want to.

Uhhhhh... okaaaaay....


because you know getting to 30 is too hard and slow for some people.

It's not only about getting to 30. Yes, while some people are going to want to play something like SMN or COR off the start (and honestly, where's the harm in it) some of the quests just suck and people will get bored/annoyed/quit before they even finish it. Getting to Aht Urhgan is a mission in itself that requires a lot of reading up on in order to understand on how and where to go for things like COR, collecting all the weather for SMN is not easily done for a newbie, etc. It's just not needed anymore.

[bungiefanNA]

Running around only takes a long time the first time. There are teleports to most zones in core, Zilart, and Promathia. You have to unlock them, but once you do, going just about anywhere is about a 10 minute trip, and most of that is navigating through the zone you teleported to. If you spend time unlocking the transportation options, missions, and going to events, will be much faster. Waypoint warps from Jeuno, voidwatch warps, homepoint warps, and outposts cover just about every area I can think of.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Transportation

Also, the missions were designed when it took months to level, and you would be doing them as you leveled, so it would be days or weeks between missions. The fast leveling screwed that up a bit, but the transportation options have been implemented to adjust for that.

As far as needing reforged armor, some jobs it isn't that great for. Sparks gear should be enough to do Delve or Skirmish to get gear with better stats, as an alternative to reforged armor, while you can work on the requirements for reforged armor. There were also plenty of other events you could have tried with friends, like Voidwatch, Salvage, Abyssea. There were 6 of you, you could have done just about any event you wanted together, not just having to jump into current endgame. Leveling is faster in a 6 person party than Trust, partly because of more members, and partly because of more control than the AI lets you have. Also, an established social LS would have likely assisted you with learning things and unlocking things. Endgame shouldn't be the focus of a new player, and having the best armor is going to take you a while.


I do still have interest in the game, of course. It's all a matter of when to come back...

I don't know if I'd be so keen on transferring servers. The price is high, but besides that, I'd basically be giving up on my friends ever coming back to the game too. They may or may not play again, but I can be hopeful, and completely abandoning them would hurt. ;|

Another option is to start a new character in a new slot, and leave your old character inactive until your friends come back...

If you stayed on Asura, there's an LS run by Tiktaks called REDDIT that is recruiting players of all types, newbies and veterans, to provide help to whoever they can.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxi/comments/1zflia/tiktaks_guides_need_to_be_stickied/

http://www.reddit.com/r/RedditLinkshell

They're very active from what I've seen. I'm almost considering a server transfer myself, but I'm the admin of the web site for my current LS on Guildwork, and the fee for the transfer is still high on top of what I'm already paying.

[Demonjustin]

I do still have interest in the game, of course. It's all a matter of when to come back...

I don't know if I'd be so keen on transferring servers. The price is high, but besides that, I'd basically be giving up on my friends ever coming back to the game too. They may or may not play again, but I can be hopeful, and completely abandoning them would hurt. ;|I can understand that. Not sure how to really solve that sadly. Just feel as though this LS could make you feel more welcome and get ya into the game. I dunno, I would just hate to see someone who does have interest in the game be put off by things like this and not really play the game because of it, but if you ever do wanna take me up on the offer, the LS has been around for about 4 years already, so I'm sure it will still be here! :P

[Lithera]

Noo. They won't do it because the game if changed the way you wish for it to be changed to wouldn't give them a reason to do it period. Sure there still would be a nice ring at the end of it but why bother doing so if there is nothing else but that? Again I'm sorry if actually having to physically get some place takes more time than a few minutes isn't fun to you and a few others. It is literally the only expansion that was given or had other ways later added to it in order to cut down on travel time. Again condemning CoP because of only that one flaw is stupid and selfish.

I'm surprised you didn't name Drg, or nin in that part. Though cor? Really? Once you get all of the CSes inside of town it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to guess where pirates might be hanging out at. Oh I know it has to be Halvung, right? No? Damn it I was sure they would be having a ship right next to an active volcano. Because if someone who seriously wants to become a job they're going to give up while unlocking. We'll maybe if they're trying for Drg and can't get a gold hairpin, but that isn't as annoying as waiting for the damn egg to hatch. Again I'm sure most specially ToAU and post that job except sch would see a bigger f this shit with having to get mats for their AF and quit there than at the unlocking point.

[Raydeus]

The thing is, new players aren't going to want to do all that running, let alone try to figure it out or look it up on wikis.

And that's perfectly ok. They can play all the other games available out there.

Because in the end XI will always be an older game, made for an older time and an older audience. And trying to "modernize" too much will only water down the experience older players like while simply not being able to compete with games designed from the ground up for the more immediate WoW-like experience.

So I rather see the devs continue making the game more convenient for older players returning to the game rather than focusing on bringing brand new players in.

Which again, is what XIV is for.


I doubt your sincerity here.

Guess I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight just worrying about it. :(

[Crevox]

And that's perfectly ok. They can play all the other games available out there.

No, it's not. The game is a business. If you aren't attracting ANY new customers, or holding them for longer than one sub, there's a problem. And that problem needs to get solved if the game wants to survive.


So I rather see the devs continue making the game more convenient for older players returning to the game rather than focusing on bringing brand new players in.


Things like removing CoP as a requirement for getting the AF/relic armors doesn't hurt anyone, and yeah, there are older players that haven't yet completed CoP. In the end, everyone wins. Same thing can be said about unlocking all the jobs.

[Demonjustin]

I hate the fact that something like completing quests has now become a reason why people should go play another game when FFXI's combat and overall gameplay is fairly different from other games.

Personally, I love FFXI gameplay, I hate many things about the game outside of it though, such as the drop rates on items, the augmenting systems they use for things like Skirmish, or the travel that is literally the very reason I never completed WotG or my even my home nation's mission line. Yet, apparently due to how I feel about subjects such as CoP or travel I should go play WoW, or FFXIV, because even though their gameplay is different, and I may not like it as much as this, it's the only option I am apparently supposed to have. There seems to exist no middle ground, the fact these things need not be used by others and in general many changes asked for in these instances would have no negative effect on other players who are either finished with the content(CoP) or don't wish to use the features(travel reduction) but yet we are told if we want the changes we ask for, go play another game.

[Crevox]

I hate the fact that something like completing quests has now become a reason why people should go play another game when FFXI's combat and overall gameplay is fairly different from other games.

Personally, I love FFXI gameplay, I hate many things about the game outside of it though, such as the drop rates on items, the augmenting systems they use for things like Skirmish, or the travel that is literally the very reason I never completed WotG or my even my home nation's mission line. Yet, apparently due to how I feel about subjects such as CoP or travel I should go play WoW, or FFXIV, because even though their gameplay is different, and I may not like it as much as this, it's the only option I am apparently supposed to have. There seems to exist no middle ground, the fact these things need not be used by others and in general many changes asked for in these instances would have no negative effect on other players who are either finished with the content(CoP) or don't wish to use the features(travel reduction) but yet we are told if we want the changes we ask for, go play another game.

Pretty much agree. The combat, partying, strategy, jobs, and gameplay in this game is fantastic. The game just makes it so hard for you to experience in it in a meaningful way.

The thing is, all the quests have already been done in the past by anyone who is arguing against them... why does it matter? I feel like the game could really benefit from just being opened up a bit. There's a lot of potential here, a lot of great game that just sits there untouched. The combat and party play in this game continues to be fitting of FINAL FANTASY, the game just needs some tweaks to allow people to see that and get there before getting bogged down and quitting from the stuff in between.

There's a lot of easy ways to leave the game unharmed for those that enjoy the "old style" or how FFXI has been over the years, while also improving the experience for those that want to just enjoy the combat or whatever else.

[Xantavia]

No, it's not. The game is a business. If you aren't attracting ANY new customers, or holding them for longer than one sub, there's a problem. And that problem needs to get solved if the game wants to survive.
The danger is in alienating the base who like the way it is. Those of us who have been playing for years (and will likely be playing as long as there is a server up) obviously found something we like. Changing it up and making it easier and easier for people to max out on endgame stuff, what happens then?

For arguments sake, say they revamp the whole game and make it similar to WoW or FF14, two games that really do nothing for me. I drop my subscription and they lose $13 monthly as long as the game is around. You love the changes but max out on stuff after 3 months. Now do you keep playing (no net gain/loss because you are taking my place) or do you get bored because there is nothing left for you to do and find another game(which now has SE making $13 less than before).

You see it as necessary for the games continued survival. I see it as alienating the playerbase that likes the game and replacing them for those with no long term commitments and will jump ship as soon as the next shiny MMO comes along. I personally think they have been doing a good job striking a balance between new and old (RoE and trust come to mind). Invalidating content older than 2 months to please potential new players is not a good decision. I'm basing this on what happened before ilvl gear. Players wanted to be able to use their relics and mythics and SE eventually made a path to upgrade them. Players liked their sky gear and there was finally a change to augment it. Aldouin releases, ilvl gear is revealed, and the forums rioted. Suddenly everything, (except maybe black belt and d-ring) aren't worth it any more. That has been corrected over time, but it was rough and the only time I seriously debated quitting. It was the addition of RoE that got me to stay (besides pretending WotG was the last expansion).

[Xantavia]

The thing is, all the quests have already been done in the past by anyone who is arguing against them... why does it matter? I feel like the game could really benefit from just being opened up a bit. There's a lot of potential here, a lot of great game that just sits there untouched. The combat and party play in this game continues to be fitting of FINAL FANTASY, the game just needs some tweaks to allow people to see that and get there before getting bogged down and quitting from the stuff in between.
Could you clarify this a bit? I'm just reading a contradiction between untouched content and players getting bogged down by the stuff in between? Isn't the untouched stuff the between stuff? Based on what I interpret from your posts (and some other players too), the between stuff is everything not related to Aldouin endgame, and that is what you wish to skip. But doesn't that include the potential that you see in the game.

I hope I'm being clear here. Based on another thread, players dislike having to do CoP in order to reforge armor. So is CoP the between stuff that turns you and your friends off, or is CoP something that you see potential in and it is a shame that it sits there untouched? And if it has potential, why such an uproar and eagerness to skip it? Do you see what I'm getting at?

Unrelated, but if you do decide to come back, they announced that Cait Sith is coming, but will require all but completing WotG to acquire. IIRC you did CoP and ToAU enough to get Diablos/Odin/Alexander but weren't thrilled with the requirement. Just something to keep in mind.

[Demonjustin]

The danger is in alienating the base who like the way it is. Those of us who have been playing for years (and will likely be playing as long as there is a server up) obviously found something we like. Changing it up and making it easier and easier for people to max out on endgame stuff, what happens then?If someone finished with CoP is going to quit because they made CoP a non-requirement for RF gear... I would be left speechless.


For arguments sake, say they revamp the whole game and make it similar to WoW or FF14Woah, stopping you right there. A few changes to make the game easier to get into for new players is not even close to revamping the entire game into a casual game in any way. They can leave everything on the top half of the game how it is, making a smoother climb to that point is what's being asked for, I doubt many people have an issue with how the game is when it comes to the upper areas where other players actually are, it's getting to feel like you have access to be able to do everything that's the problem. What I mean is, when CoP is blocking you and someone says you have to go do it in order to upgrade your gear, or they tell you that you need to make a Relic that takes a couple months to do(how it used to be, not now necessarily) then you have some problems on your hands. That being said, when it comes to being told you need a 119 weapon to do Ark Angels because they are hard content, but once geared better you can do it, and the only thing standing between you and that is other content which is actually at your level(Yorcia, Outer Ra, Delve) then you're fine.


I drop my subscription and they lose $13 monthly as long as the game is around. You love the changes but max out on stuff after 3 months. Now do you keep playing (no net gain/loss because you are taking my place) or do you get bored because there is nothing left for you to do and find another game(which now has SE making $13 less than before).If the changes caused you to leave, then you are correct, the game could lose money from the changes. But I refer you back to my original comment at the start of this post.


You see it as necessary for the games continued survival. I see it as alienating the playerbase that likes the game and replacing them for those with no long term commitments and will jump ship as soon as the next shiny MMO comes along. I personally think they have been doing a good job striking a balance between new and old (RoE and trust come to mind). Invalidating content older than 2 months to please potential new players is not a good decision. I'm basing this on what happened before ilvl gear. Players wanted to be able to use their relics and mythics and SE eventually made a path to upgrade them. Players liked their sky gear and there was finally a change to augment it. Aldouin releases, ilvl gear is revealed, and the forums rioted. Suddenly everything, (except maybe black belt and d-ring) aren't worth it any more. That has been corrected over time, but it was rough and the only time I seriously debated quitting. It was the addition of RoE that got me to stay (besides pretending WotG was the last expansion).I can very easily say I think this is in that balance you said they struck. The last time CoP was thought of as a 'long term goal' was quite a while back... No one has suggested making anything since level 75 cap was broken irrelevant in this thread so far as I can tell. If anything, it seems to me people just keep going with the slippery slope argument to fight against anything changing old content to make it more easily accessible, or more specifically, that would make the new RF gear not require CoP completion since I think that is what sparked all this originally.

[Lithera]

Um WotG you can warp to almost any part if it that you need to go to. Only parts that have some travel time would be getting to both castles. Switching between time used to be a huge travel time eater, but with VW and now HP warps that's no longer a time sync. Again using the I can't be bothered to do something or I seriously am having no fun due to travel time is perhaps the weakest reason to change something. Also demonjustin I think you are not fully grasping how bad the changes Crevox is asking for is. Make the game even more of an easy mode like it seems he wants to and you will probably have a lot of older players quitting. A lot of us don't mind helping new people, but can you really say that you wouldn't mind taking maybe an hour to explain a lot of stuff before finally doing delve that took some time just to get people to someone who just started the game five days ago because they had all jobs unlocked got to 30 and burned to 99 within that time?

Aww don't make him go and want to quit before he even comes back.

[Crevox]

Make the game even more of an easy mode

Hah. The fact of the matter is, none of the changes I mentioned have anything to do with "difficulty"; they are all tedious, tasks with zero difficulty that just involve lots of running around. I would not dare ask them to nerf monsters, bosses, or anything of the sort. I embrace difficulty, which is part of the reason I enjoy this game; because it is ruthless at times and battles are always a fun challenge, not a mindless button mash.

Don't even compare any of those quests to "difficulty." That word does not even apply.


I hope I'm being clear here. Based on another thread, players dislike having to do CoP in order to reforge armor. So is CoP the between stuff that turns you and your friends off, or is CoP something that you see potential in and it is a shame that it sits there untouched? And if it has potential, why such an uproar and eagerness to skip it? Do you see what I'm getting at?

CoP is the requirement that none of us wanted to do, but were forced to do if we wanted the armors and other things (Diabolos). I'm not saying CoP shouldn't exist. I went and got Diabolos (though it was annoying) and was done with CoP for the moment, but had planned to go back some time in the future to see the rest of the storyline through. It's a game. It's content. It's not like the story was bad, it was just time consuming to complete, and I had a lot of other things I wanted to see and do with that time first... I just needed Diabolos, so I went and got him real quick. No biggie. I'll fully complete it at some point, probably when my friends aren't online, to explore and experience the world and all that good stuff.

Then bam, suddenly, I find out I need to do it for the armor. CoP. All the way up to sea. Not good. THAT is annoying. Now I HAVE to do it, as soon as possible, to be able to trade the items I already went and got for the armor I was striving to obtain. It is no longer an act of choice, not something I can do at my own leisure when I feel like it; it is now a requirement that I get it done, a priority. That means it automatically gets in the way of everything else I wanted to do. I have to get it done before I can do the more interesting and fun things that I wanted to do. Ugh. How annoying. Not only that, all my friends need to do it now too, and they're not online often; when they are, we do something together. How the heck are they ever going to get it done? What a mess.

Maybe that gives you some more insight into my thinking.


Unrelated, but if you do decide to come back, they announced that Cait Sith is coming, but will require all but completing WotG to acquire. IIRC you did CoP and ToAU enough to get Diablos/Odin/Alexander but weren't thrilled with the requirement. Just something to keep in mind.

I know. Painful. Ultimately WotG was in the same situation as CoP. I heard it has a great story, it gives the refresh earring at the end, and I wanted to see it all at some point. No biggie, no rush. The only reason I didn't do it while my sub was active is because I got burned out by all the other stuff (CoP, ToAU).

It's still not as bad as the CoP requirement though. I couldn't even trade in my items for my Convoker armor unless I cleared CoP. WotG just has a nicer reward at the end for me when and if I do complete it with the addition of Cait Sith. Cait Sith, while nice, is not exactly a priority. The SMN armor on the other hand, felt like something I really needed; and it ended up being extremely useful. Armor that actually does stuff for SMN is not exactly easy to come by, and I had already spent all my sparks/gil on the items needed to trade, so it was pretty much a finality that I had to do CoP, like, now. It was in the midst of my great item hunt for SMN related things, and CoP stuck a giant stick right in those plans, and interrupted everything. Screwed up my whole order of things, set me back hard, and greatly contributed to me getting burnt out on the game. No, that does not mean I'm just butthurt at CoP because of what happened, it's still just a requirement I think shouldn't exist for that purpose.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Again using the I can't be bothered to do something or I seriously am having no fun due to travel time is perhaps the weakest reason to change something.

What's the quick route to the Sacrarium? Only way there is a long trudge through monsters that don't even aggro you at the area's old level cap. Boneyard Gully? Again a long yomp, again aggro-free at the old level cap.

Long walks that exist for nothing more than the sake of being long walks, and continuing to be long walks.


Make the game even more of an easy mode like it seems he wants to and you will probably have a lot of older players quitting.

I note the introduction of Home Point warps doesn't prevent old players from still using the airship.


but can you really say that you wouldn't mind taking maybe an hour to explain a lot of stuff before finally doing delve that took some time just to get people to someone who just started the game five days

How long do you walk to get to Delve?

[Lithera]

Again I know a person who felt walking to boyahda tree from the out post was too much work. Quickest route to the sacarium is tavy ring or void watch and exit through the northern exit in coast. Compared to say walking all the way from Southren Sandy to Xarcabard is a much longer trip than the time it would take someone to travel from tavnazia to the sacarium. Specially when you can use a chocobo or sprinters shoes.

For boneyard gully void watch straight to either the maze or to attohwa it's self. Assuming the person of coruse has access to those void watch warps. If the person doesn't have a tavy ring or void watch there is the outpost warp. If no Outpost then yeah need to use the swirling vortex.

No it doesn't but airship travel went down long before home point warps were introduced.

It could take a while to get to where the fracture is that they want to get to if they don't have the closest bivouac. Though I said understanding how delve works, what all of the short hand in game ment. You know things most people who are doing delve or skirmish or the AA fights would assume the rest of the group understood. It would be like if you were in kazham making a party back in the day didn't only not know how to get to there but how to unlock it or what WS or SC meant. Only to find out the person didn't even know how to get to jeuno because they were that new. Would you really be willing to spend time explaining things to someone that new how to get to and do an event that took a while to get a group for, or would you rather take a person who knows these things already in order to prevent others in the group to leave because it's taking so long to do the event?

I never said they were short trips, but to have it as the only reason for something to be changed is being lazy. I would be all for the CoP areas to get more quicker ways to get to places. Like for instance a midway point on the map in Uleguerand Range would be nice. Like where flux 5 is in it's abyssea counter part.

Oh and don't forget the geomatic founts you can use with the proto-waypoint in Ru'Lude. Once you get any of those which you can go and get before any CoP mission asks you to go to some places it just takes a small amount of kinetic units to cut down on actual travel time. Only one that might be an out of the way to take would to use the riverine site B01 to get to the sacarium.

[Zarchery]

No, it's not. The game is a business. If you aren't attracting ANY new customers, or holding them for longer than one sub, there's a problem. And that problem needs to get solved if the game wants to survive.



Things like removing CoP as a requirement for getting the AF/relic armors doesn't hurt anyone, and yeah, there are older players that haven't yet completed CoP. In the end, everyone wins. Same thing can be said about unlocking all the jobs.

And like I said, if they're so impatient that CoP is a major roadblock for them, they're gonna burn out anyway, and complain about something else anyway and quit.

[Sapphires]

Hah. The fact of the matter is, none of the changes I mentioned have anything to do with "difficulty"; they are all tedious, tasks with zero difficulty that just involve lots of running around. I would not dare ask them to nerf monsters, bosses, or anything of the sort. I embrace difficulty, which is part of the reason I enjoy this game; because it is ruthless at times and battles are always a fun challenge, not a mindless button mash.




It's not like the story was bad, it was just time consuming to complete, and I had a lot of other things I wanted to see and do with that time first...


This game has survived 11 years and counting because it values the long term goals and journey through all of its content. You seem to come from a different generation of MMO player that just wants to skip through cutscenes/missions and teleport everwhere for the latest loot.

I think you need to step back and look at how obvious your hatred for something as basic as world travel is. All the warps are nice and convenient, but there is still a reason for all that space in between.
All of your arguments seem to rest on I can't complete my goals as fast I want to.

You've spent more than one thread and the 30 some pages of this one trying to bend SE to your sense of faster gratification, when you should really just go back to playing the game, slow down and enjoy the journey to your goals. You seem to love this game based on how much you argue about it, but you just need to be less impatient to truly enjoy it.

[Zarchery]

Then bam, suddenly, I find out I need to do it for the armor. CoP. All the way up to sea. Not good. THAT is annoying. Now I HAVE to do it, as soon as possible, to be able to trade the items I already went and got for the armor I was striving to obtain. It is no longer an act of choice, not something I can do at my own leisure when I feel like it; it is now a requirement that I get it done, a priority. That means it automatically gets in the way of everything else I wanted to do. I have to get it done before I can do the more interesting and fun things that I wanted to do. Ugh. How annoying. Not only that, all my friends need to do it now too, and they're not online often; when they are, we do something together. How the heck are they ever going to get it done? What a mess.

No. You're just outright wrong here. This is what's infuriating about you. You say obviously wrong things and won't own up to it.

You could have done CoP at a leisurely pace. Taken 6 months to do it. Taken a year. Not done it at all. Use sparks or skirmish gear in lieu of reforged AF and reforged relic. Don't use Diabolos. But you're so insistent I WANT IT NOW I DESERVE IT NOW GIVE IT TO ME NOW that you built up these strawman criticisms. You don't accept that you have time to do things. You don't accept that you have to put effort into things. You don't accept that you don't intrinsically deserve everything in this game immediately and without effort. You don't accept that you and your friends, who burnt out and quit after less than half a year, are not exactly a moneymaker for a business that depends on recurring monthly membership fees.

[Zarchery]

This game has survived 11 years and counting because it values the long term goals and journey through all of its content. You seem to come from a different generation of MMO player that just wants to skip through cutscenes/missions and teleport everwhere for the latest loot.

I think you need to step back and look at how obvious your hatred for something as basic as world travel is. All the warps are nice and convenient, but there is still a reason for all that space in between.
All of your arguments seem to rest on I can't complete my goals as fast I want to.

You've spent more than one thread and the 30 some pages of this one trying to bend SE to your sense of faster gratification, when you should really just go back to playing the game, slow down and enjoy the journey to your goals. You seem to love this game based on how much you argue about it, but you just need to be less impatient to truly enjoy it.

Sapphires,

That was so beautifully put that I wish I had 10 accounts so I could Like your post 10 times. I wish you were on Carbuncle so I could high-five you in game.

[Afania]

I hate the fact that something like completing quests has now become a reason why people should go play another game when FFXI's combat and overall gameplay is fairly different from other games.

Personally, I love FFXI gameplay, I hate many things about the game outside of it though, such as the drop rates on items, the augmenting systems they use for things like Skirmish, or the travel that is literally the very reason I never completed WotG or my even my home nation's mission line. Yet, apparently due to how I feel about subjects such as CoP or travel I should go play WoW, or FFXIV, because even though their gameplay is different, and I may not like it as much as this, it's the only option I am apparently supposed to have. There seems to exist no middle ground, the fact these things need not be used by others and in general many changes asked for in these instances would have no negative effect on other players who are either finished with the content(CoP) or don't wish to use the features(travel reduction) but yet we are told if we want the changes we ask for, go play another game.

Because there are ppl that still enjoys FFXI/MMORPG as a whole, not FFXI/MMORPG with just jobs/battle/combat.

I want to play FFXI as a whole, including the running, long CS, "long journey to the end" feel. I want to feel like living in another world.

I don't want to play a MMO which I log on, hit cap in 2 weeks, and the only purpose of playing is to hit cap so I can do the "real content". I don't want to feel like I'm playing a game to beat a boss and get achievement.

After all the crazy 30 pages I'm not sure why this still goes on. There are titles that feels like living in another world, with slower pace, more walking and more running/boring quests. Because the point of this kind of game, is to live in a virtual world and keep playing the game as another life.

There are also titles that focus on endgame and difficult raiding. With epic boss and loot, and complicated combat system. Everything from lv1~cap is meaningless. FFXIV/WoW is this type of the game. The point of this type of game is instant gratification.

I'm not sure why is it so hard to understand that everyone has different taste, and why do people like Demonjustin/Crevox continue to linger in FFXI, but hating FFXI for what it is.

I don't like WoW and FFXIV, I quit instantly because I know it's not my cup of tea. I don't yell on their forum, asking for the game to change focus. I don't "hate" every element in games like FFXIV. I love the boss mechanics in FFXIV, it's fun, but the lack of role playing element made me quit. I don't linger in FFXIV just because I like 1 aspect and hoping every other aspect to change to fit my taste too. Being an instant gratification MMO is part of FFXIV, it's just what it is. I can't have a game with fun boss mechanics AND a virtual world. I either play FFXIV for fun boss mechanics or quit for another MMO for virtual world.



So you like FFXI job/battle system? Sure. But just face the truth, a MMORPG is more than "log on and have fun beating the boss with a cool battle system". A MMORPG, at least this game, is everything. Walking, running, watch CS, make friends so you can do content, buying stuff and selling stuff, dealing with retards, grinding RME, it's all part of the gameplay. Something someone else enjoys. Maybe someone else who haven't finish everything also enjoys it, and now you're asking SE to take it away from them too

If you don't like grinding/walking/watching CS but only like the battle system, make a decision, leave and give up on the battle system, or stay but tolerate the aspect you don't like. I don't think I've ever play a game and found myself loving every aspect of it, there are always a few aspect I don't like, so what's the big deal?

Stop asking dev to change the game into another instant gratification MMO where everyone's only purpose is to kill boss, thanks.

[Lithera]

Oh snap Afania just got back into the thread ya-all. This is gonna go for at least 5 more pages. Go get your popcorn and have a seat. :D

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Again I know a person who felt walking to boyahda tree from the out post was too much work.

And S-E added a faster way.


Quickest route to the sacarium is tavy ring

If you already have a Tavnazian Ring, why would you need to go to the Sacrarium?


or void watch and exit through the northern exit in coast.

The correct answer is "From the Qufim Island outpost," but that's neither here nor there. It's a heck of a lot longer a hike, regardless of the starting point, than you seemed to believe with the "They added teleports to everywhere!" insistence.


Compared to say walking all the way from Southren Sandy to Xarcabard is a much longer trip than the time it would take someone to travel from tavnazia to the sacarium.

But a good many jobs need never go to the Northlands to get AF109.


Specially when you can use a chocobo

Did you seriously just suggest using a chocobo in the Northlands or around Tavnazia?

You're insisting new players do stuff that you obviously can't even remember doing yourself. How are you fit to comment, let alone pass judgment, on this topic?


Assuming the person of coruse has access to those void watch warps.

Ah, so not only are new players obligated to progress through CoP, but headway must also be made in WotG in order to complete CoP.

And again, do try to remember that you're insisting that new players go through all this, while old players can just flit around amongst waypoints and home points to access their shiny new content. Shouldn't the burden be instead on the older, more experienced players, kinda like how there is no Tu'Lia outpost?


No it doesn't but airship travel went down long before home point warps were introduced.

And this hurts your play experience how? Did it deny you all the enlightening conversations you had with other passengers that I'm sure you had?


It could take a while to get to where the fracture is that they want to get to if they don't have the closest bivouac.

/pcmd kick


Would you really be willing to spend time explaining things to someone that new how to get to and do an event that took a while to get a group for, or would you rather take a person who knows these things already in order to prevent others in the group to leave because it's taking so long to do the event?

Congratulations, you've just made the OP's point for him: new players are excluded from popular gameplay.


I never said they were short trips


Only parts that have some travel time would be getting to both castles.


Oh and don't forget the geomatic founts you can use with the proto-waypoint in Ru'Lude. Once you get any of those which you can go and get before any CoP mission asks you to go

Thereby making it easier to return to places you only need to visit once. Make no mistake: those are for ENMs, not missions.

[AppropriateName5786]

"Role Playing Games" are a longstanding culture dating back to the late 1970s when I was a kid and I was playing a brave knight in tabletop dice-n-books D&D, and RPGs are a not a passing fad or a gimmick label to tag onto products - RPG is a lifestyle, and a deep passion for millions of veteran gamers around the globe.

You may or may not need to get out more.


FFXI is the best open-ended RPG videogame online. No challengers come anywhere near to taking the crown from FFXI.

Get a dictionary, and check the definition of "fact" and "opinion."


Or you can RPG your character as with a death-wish person, somebody brave who takes risks others are unwilling to chance, because their family was killed by orcs and now they only seek death on the battlefield in the hopes of being reunited with their family in Heaven. Or a healer who feels victorious when the party survives, and weeps when somebody falls in battle. Or a thief who only speaks occasionally and watches everyone else with hawk-like eyes and ears instead. The option to play FFXI as a pure RPG *does totally exist* and it is entirely upto the user to provide the imagination and depth of personality that goes into the character - just like dice-n-books RPGs.

I don't drink much or do hallucinogens, but I'm sure if I did I still wouldn't begin to understand this.


Or you can play FFXI as a sort of basic arcade beat-em-up too, although this is not as rewarding as playing the RPG element.

Please check the right answer: The above statement is a fact. __ The above statement is an opinion. __


Re; the long drawn-out stuff. Again - if you remove the grind, you kill the game. Keep it lengthy and keep it challenging, thats the ticket.

Trust me, they could remove every expansion, every enm/bcnm/kcnm etc, every VW path progression, and this game would still have 10 years of "grind" if you put your mind to it. If you didn't have to fight the whole path to get to Qilin, you'd still be grinding him for weeks and months if you wanted a Coruscanti. If you didn't have to unlock Dynamis, you'd still have to grind for currency to get a relic. If you didn't have to complete CoP to attain 109 AF armor, you'd still have to get the original AF, grind the sparks/bcnm for chapters, then grind 20 merits per AA fight to get enough seals. And someone who isn't already in 119 armor will not get into a difficult/very difficult AA group, and can't grind merits as efficiently, so that all adds to the grind. Or you could just start a Mythic. The grind was never the issue, it's the roadblock leading to the grind.

[bungiefanNA]

What's the quick route to the Sacrarium? Only way there is a long trudge through monsters that don't even aggro you at the area's old level cap. Boneyard Gully? Again a long yomp, again aggro-free at the old level cap.

Long walks that exist for nothing more than the sake of being long walks, and continuing to be long walks.

It's ten minutes or less from the homepoint or outpost warp, especially with the increased movement speed they added at the end of the year. That's very quick compared to what we used to have. As I said, going anywhere is generally a 5-10 minute run from a transportation landing.

[Olor]

somebody with a Doctorate such as I've got

I don't care one way or another about your little spat, but come on...

[Raydeus]

Are you saying it is a bad thing to be educated? Or that you don't see the relevance of how being educated means that a person understands basic words like "fact" and "opinion" which was the point/flame I was responding to.

He is saying that using your title like that was petty.

I mean I don't actually disagree with your post about roleplaying (I gave it a Like), but that did make you look pretty bad. <_<;

[detlef]

That guy is just a troll posting on a mule's account. Just ignore him.

[Olor]

I was actually saying I can't believe anyone with a doctorate could write such a poorly constructed sentence. In addition, doctorate should not be capitalized.


You suggesting that somebody with a Doctorate such as I've got, doesn't know basic words like 'fact' and 'opinion' is also a gross personal insult, and again has nothing to do with FFXI or the subject at hand.

How about "Given that I have a doctorate it's ridiculous to suggest that I don't know the meaning of basic words such as 'fact' and 'opinion,' and it's also a gross personal insult that has nothing to do with FFXI or the subject at hand."

Raydeus is right though, it is also petty. At the very least, however, if you're going to brag about academic credentials, please take care to do so in a way that doesn't make you look ridiculous.

I do agree, however, that the person who was attacking you was out of line. I just shudder to see sentences written in the passive, poorly.

[Raydeus]

Did you read the troll post that followed my perfectly innocent and upbeat RPG post, in which I flamed nobody and did not insult anybody about their level of intelligence?

That troll post said I should "get a dictionary and look up fact and opinion." As I am a Doctor, I do not need to get a dictionary to look up basic words like "fact" etc. Me pointing this out to the troll-post writer, was not petty, it was just me stating "fact" - which is ironic under the circumstances. If they had not insulted me with their post and told me to look up basic words, I would not need to assert the fact that I know those basic words already, and in fact I know some very long complicated words besides.


I did read it, and I can see it got to you.

Which is precisely the point of making trolling posts like that, to get to you and make you rage about it. So the moment you took offense to a post from someone on the internet that's the moment you "lost", so to speak.

[AppropriateName5786]

Actually, insulting people was the last thing I wanted to do, Stompa. I agree that my tone may not have been the friendliest, but I merely tried to emphasize how ridiculous it was for you to state your opinions about the game like they were facts, and subsequently use them as a basis for your position on the topic (i.e. RPGs are a "lifestyle" to me, and, thus, every grind, regardless of how outdated or unhealthy it is, must be kept and the OP cannot be given any leeway). Also, a person's post count should have absolutely no bearing on whether they are heard or not. Using that as a measure of a poster's experience/worth/ability shows how truly subjective one's take on this topic is, and is also the reason I chose not to link my main character on this forum. I post when I desire to, which is not very often. Furthermore, I am not here to make enemies, and we're discussing a video game after all, so let's just leave it at that.

I'm not new to FFXI, so no matter what they change with content lockouts, 95% of it most likely won't affect me. I argue for the OP and against you in this thread not because I like him and hate you, but because I look at the logic of each post and argue accordingly. The fact is the OP is a new player who represents a typically silent population of new players (no matter how small it is, it is there) and the changes he asks for are reasonable and in line with the general direction that FFXI has been heading.

[Lithera]

No it's not he just said he wants to get rid of everything trivial. What is trivial to him most likely isn't to those who oppose him. Also where do we stop at if we did take out trivial things? It is a very slippery slope to where it's like stomps said it might as well be an app that allows us to put dogs in cute costumes.

[Demonjustin]

Because there are ppl that still enjoys FFXI/MMORPG as a whole, not FFXI/MMORPG with just jobs/battle/combat.

I want to play FFXI as a whole, including the running, long CS, "long journey to the end" feel. I want to feel like living in another world.

I don't want to play a MMO which I log on, hit cap in 2 weeks, and the only purpose of playing is to hit cap so I can do the "real content". I don't want to feel like I'm playing a game to beat a boss and get achievement.Guess what, nothing that has been suggested would prevent you from it.


After all the crazy 30 pages I'm not sure why this still goes on. There are titles that feels like living in another world, with slower pace, more walking and more running/boring quests. Because the point of this kind of game, is to live in a virtual world and keep playing the game as another life.

There are also titles that focus on endgame and difficult raiding. With epic boss and loot, and complicated combat system. Everything from lv1~cap is meaningless. FFXIV/WoW is this type of the game. The point of this type of game is instant gratification.

I'm not sure why is it so hard to understand that everyone has different taste, and why do people like Demonjustin/Crevox continue to linger in FFXI, but hating FFXI for what it is.I'm not sure why it is so hard to understand that everyone has different taste, and why do people like Afania continue to act as though other games like FFXIV and WoW are accurate replacements for FFXI when the gameplay is entirely different, and nothing asked for changes this game's gameplay or difficulty, only mediocre boring easy crap we don't find fun or entertaining in any way and want to cut out so that players can more easily enjoy the game?


I don't like WoW and FFXIV, I quit instantly because I know it's not my cup of tea. I don't yell on their forum, asking for the game to change focus. I don't "hate" every element in games like FFXIV. I love the boss mechanics in FFXIV, it's fun, but the lack of role playing element made me quit. I don't linger in FFXIV just because I like 1 aspect and hoping every other aspect to change to fit my taste too. Being an instant gratification MMO is part of FFXIV, it's just what it is. I can't have a game with fun boss mechanics AND a virtual world. I either play FFXIV for fun boss mechanics or quit for another MMO for virtual world.Cool, you see, this is where we differ, you liked the FFXIV battle mechanics and didn't like the RPG aspect, I don't like the battle mechanics of most MMOs, in all honesty I hate most MMOs because the gameplay is so boring to me, and I would probably hate FFXI too if I hadn't played it nearly every day for the last few years. The thing is, I can't find another game like FFXI, and even if I could, I wouldn't have the same people playing it with me, which means either I try to change this game, I leave all the people I know and this game, or I sit here and do nothing, I pick the first of the 3, it seems the best, and if things aren't changed I lost nothing in the process.


So you like FFXI job/battle system? Sure. But just face the truth, a MMORPG is more than "log on and have fun beating the boss with a cool battle system". A MMORPG, at least this game, is everything. Walking, running, watch CS, make friends so you can do content, buying stuff and selling stuff, dealing with retards, grinding RME, it's all part of the gameplay. Something someone else enjoys. Maybe someone else who haven't finish everything also enjoys it, and now you're asking SE to take it away from them too

If you don't like grinding/walking/watching CS but only like the battle system, make a decision, leave and give up on the battle system, or stay but tolerate the aspect you don't like. I don't think I've ever play a game and found myself loving every aspect of it, there are always a few aspect I don't like, so what's the big deal?

Stop asking dev to change the game into another instant gratification MMO where everyone's only purpose is to kill boss, thanks.No, I'm not going to stop asking devs to make changes to the game that I think would make the game better, that is the entire fkin point in having forums! What in the world do you think these forums exist for if not for feedback? So we can talk to people on other servers? No, because SE knows we have multiple sites like BG and FFXIAH for that, this forum was created with the idea of feedback, and yet at the same time what we seem to have right here is a bunch of people basically saying that feedback isn't allowed unless it affects you specifically(in the case of my arguing for the sake of arguing since I completed CoP and god forbid someone want changes to help others), it changes the game to be easier(because people misunderstand what difficulty is and think that doing CoP constitutes as in any way being difficult even though it's literally killing TW and EP mobs over and over), or if it changes old requirements for content that was created years ago and anyone with eyes, hands, a brain, and a character at 99 could curb stop on any given day of the week.

So, no, I will not stop asking Devs to change the game, be it your misguided vision on what I personally ask for or if it's what I really ask for, I will ask for whatever changes I please, and you are free to misinterpret them however you wish.

[Demonjustin]

No it's not he just said he wants to get rid of everything trivial. What is trivial to him most likely isn't to those who oppose him.So you're telling me that completing CoP before getting certain ilevel gear is a massively important thing to all of the people opposing that 1 specific change, even though it literally doesn't affect them at all if it's changed since they already have it finished?


Also where do we stop at if we did take out trivial things? It is a very slippery slope to where it's like stomps said it might as well be an app that allows us to put dogs in cute costumes.Slippery Slope arguments are in my opinion the worst arguments that can ever be made to not do something. You know why? Anything can be taken too far, look far enough down that slope and you will find a terrible place no one wants to end up at, but generally people don't look down these slopes unless it's something that they don't want or doesn't affect them. The argument that it's a slippery slope is basically 'it could end up being bad later, so lets do nothing that could even remotely start that chain now' rather than even thinking the idea of 'lets do what makes things better now, and if the time comes that things start getting out of hand lets slam on the breaks' which in my personally opinion is the much better way to go about it.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

My Doctorate is in Social Science, which I have taught at University for almost twenty years. My qualifications are not in the field of "writing beautiful prose on web forums."

If there's one thing I know about graduate school, is that you will have a style manual beaten into you. And you should have written more than enough papers by now that "writing beautiful prose" should be second nature to you, be the medium a web forum or not.

Don't title drop your degree and not expect to be held to the higher standard you just introduced.

[Xantavia]

Slippery Slope arguments are in my opinion the worst arguments that can ever be made to not do something. You know why? Anything can be taken too far, look far enough down that slope and you will find a terrible place no one wants to end up at, but generally people don't look down these slopes unless it's something that they don't want or doesn't affect them. The argument that it's a slippery slope is basically 'it could end up being bad later, so lets do nothing that could even remotely start that chain now' rather than even thinking the idea of 'lets do what makes things better now, and if the time comes that things start getting out of hand lets slam on the breaks' which in my personally opinion is the much better way to go about it.
That is the difference between some posters like you and me. You think these proposed changes are good, while I see them as starting to get out of hand already. We have different views at where the point of "good for the game" and "going too far" lie.

For me, the point lies betweens easing the difficulty of content (good) versus removing the content from the equation completely (bad), like in regards to the request to separate CoP progression from reforged armor.

[Afania]

Guess what, nothing that has been suggested would prevent you from it.


You said want to be a game designer but you still don't understand psychology and human behavior.

Players don't purposely pick 1 way to play the game, unless the designer force them to do it. Further more, even if 1 person decided to play the game different from what designers wanted them to, the rest of the community still gonna play the way designers wanted them to, in the end you still won't get the said experience.

For example, if a party gets 10000 EXP/hr, solo gets 9990 EXP/hr, most people would just solo. Because the extra time you spend making a pt makes it less efficent than solo. Even if you want to party just because you love to party, nobody else gonna party with you because it's not efficent for THEM. If you want players to party, you have to make solo EXP 10/hr or content unbeatable. You can't expect players to party by themselves just because they like to party. You have to make the game a party focused game.

What is the point to purposely play slow, when every other player isn't going to play slow? It doesn't work that way. MMORPG community work as a whole, you can give players option to travel by teleport or travel by 10 min airship, 99.99999% of players gonna travel by teleport, even if you want to travel the slow way, nobody want to wait for you in the party. This applies to every aspect in this game.

Basically, what you're saying is, if you want to play slow, go play slow, but I want instant gratification, dev give me instant gratification. It may work in a single player game, but it doesn't work in MMO, in which you also play with other players. The game design affects entire community, not just 1 person.

The experience a game provides, is not related to player choice, but the game design itself. Purposely play slow or purposely spend time in other aspect of the game, does not change the nature of the game.



I'm not sure why it is so hard to understand that everyone has different taste, and why do people like Afania continue to act as though other games like FFXIV and WoW are accurate replacements for FFXI when the gameplay is entirely different, and nothing asked for changes this game's gameplay or difficulty, only mediocre boring easy crap we don't find fun or entertaining in any way and want to cut out so that players can more easily enjoy the game?


The thing you don't find "fun", is the thing I find important in a RPG.....something I find "fun". Also I really don't understand your logic. Based on your previous statment, it's obvious that FFXI is not your cup of tea, barring combat/job system. But you choose to complain on FFXI forum so they change the game direction to fit your taste. Why don't you do the same on FFXIV forum? FFXIV can't replace your XI, why not complain on FFXIV(or instert your MMO title) forum so they change the gameplay/battle system and made FFXIV a proper replacement?

It just....logically it makes zero sense. You dislike XI, but continue to linger in XI, wanted XI to change so it become a game you'd like. But you don't do the same to other titles so other titles fit your taste.

Maybe you should start a post about how bad FFXIV battle system is so dev can change it....I mean, they've changed the FFXIV battle system several times in past 3+ years, sure they can change it again if you complained enough!






No, I'm not going to stop asking devs to make changes to the game that I think would make the game better, that is the entire fkin point in having forums! What in the world do you think these forums exist for if not for feedback?

Of course everyone has their opinion about what make a better game, and you're free to present your opinion. I don't always love FFXI, there are certain game direction I don't like either. I don't like Abyssea era because everyone play with mules and it killed the whole point of playing MMO, I don't like SoA era because SoA direction made FFXI feel more like a game and less like a virtual world, thus made the game less interesting. I dislike them, I've complained about them on the forum a couple of times, but I don't start thirty nine pages of discussion and continue to complain just because the game won't change. I wrote a couple of SoA rant on the forum, but I don't linger for thirty nine pages on the forum just because the game won't change. I either move on if I don't like the direction, or deal with it. Despite I post on the forum often, I only play FFXI a few hours a month because I don't find FFXI fun anymore, and I used to play a lot. And even then, I don't complain for 39 pages like OP just because if the game isn't what I wanted it to be.

I don't like the direction, and not everyone agree with me, what else I gonna do? Write a couple of rant post, if games won't change then move on. I just fail to understand why you/Crevox have so much hate about the game direction, with opinions obviously not everyone agrees, AND continue to complain on the forum for 30 pages. As if everyone has to agree with your opinion or else you won't give up.

The issue isn't even "I have different opinion", the issue is "you must agree with my opinion or else....", then inc 30 pages of discussion, and it's still going on.

You don't like this game, other ppl still like this game. If you guys have so much time to complain about a game direction that's obviously not your cup of tea, at least pick a different game already heading toward a direction you want.





Oh snap Afania just got back into the thread ya-all. This is gonna go for at least 5 more pages. Go get your popcorn and have a seat. :D

This statement pointed out that I'm not the main culprit of this 35+ pages thread. It's going to last forever without me, tbh ._.

[Lithera]

Oh I know it will unless a community rep locks it cause it just now is starting to get reaaaly nasty.

[Crevox]

Oh I know it will unless a community rep locks it cause it just now is starting to get reaaaly nasty.

Not really. We've been having good, productive discussion for a while now. Understanding each other's view points and reason behind opinion is pretty much the key here. There's a little sidetracking, but it always gets back on point.

If more people would come out and say why they believe things shouldn't be changed, instead of just straight up calling people "lazy" or something else for suggesting it, we can get somewhere.

[Lithera]

We won't though because people's thick skulls and stubbornness is starting to come out. Also until you resub we all know that you wouldn't be able to continue to post here. Thus you have been breaking the ToS.

[bungiefanNA]

We won't though because people's thick skulls and stubbornness is starting to come out. Also until you resub we all know that you wouldn't be able to continue to post here. Thus you have been breaking the ToS.

No, that's the design of this site allowing cookies to remain valid for so long. When his expires, or he takes an action that renews it (like trying to view his profile), he will lose the ability to post to, but not read the forums until he resubs.

[Lithera]

No, that's the design of this site allowing cookies to remain valid for so long. When his expires, or he takes an action that renews it (like trying to view his profile), he will lose the ability to post to, but not read the forums until he resubs.

Go read the part of the ToS of what you are allowed to have access to if you terminate your sub. You are allowed as long as you are subbed to use anything that you need to sign into using Square ID. He stated clearly that he is no longer subbed to the game. He is just using a loophole at the moment. Again if he doesn't want to be perma baned from the forums he'll have to resub.

[Demonjustin]

Go read the part of the ToS of what you are allowed to have access to if you terminate your sub. You are allowed as long as you are subbed to use anything that you need to sign into using Square ID. He stated clearly that he is no longer subbed to the game. He is just using a loophole at the moment. Again if he doesn't want to be perma baned from the forums he'll have to resub.Yes, I'm sure they enforce that very harshly.

[Ravenmore]

[QUOTE=Ziyyigo-Tipyigo;496710]And sky ended up having terrible participation rates compared to other content because of it. There are reasons why they put the Limbus entrances at the crags and the Dynamis entrances right inside towns. And even then it took forever to get all the participants to show up in a reasonable amount of time.



I invite you to go browse some of the old Vana'diel Censuses and observe what the progress/completion rates for CoP were like before the level caps were removed. Other content, for which sneak and invisible were viable, ended up in a situation where participants expected and required the other participants to bring their own sneak and invisible, just to cut down on the hassles (i.e. time duration) of travel.


't matter how fast one can get some where there will always be people that are lat. Even now with fast travel the same people I used to see show up late all the time still show up late. The real kicker is they also had the sky warp back in the day as well.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

The real kicker is they also had the sky warp back in the day as well.

Nope. Aside from needing near completion of Chains of Promathia to accomplish, it wasn't added until the same update that introduced Salvage.

[Demonviper]

This isn't WoW, but SE has turned it into a bad copy of it.

For me, this game is dead, It isn't the game that I fell in love with a decade ago, it's a complete mess of unbalanced content and broken systems and what's more, the game feels smaller and more restrictive for each new one that SE has tacked on.

If I could go back and play 75 cap XI again, I would in a heartbeat, Vana'diel still feels like home to me and every so often I'll hear a song from the OST, or remember epic adventures with friends or tough battles that took us all night to beat... and I'll get the craving to resub, but every time I have I'm cruelly reminded that the game I loved, one of the best I've played no longer really exists.

So, I can relate to the OP despite his newness, I wish he'd have been able to enjoy XI in its prime, not the dead rotting chocobo that remains, the only movement being the result of SE continually kicking the corpse in hopes of tricking us into believing it's signs of life.

[Draylo]

This isn't WoW, but SE has turned it into a bad copy of it.

For me, this game is dead, It isn't the game that I fell in love with a decade ago, it's a complete mess of unbalanced content and broken systems and what's more, the game feels smaller and more restrictive for each new one that SE has tacked on.

If I could go back and play 75 cap XI again, I would in a heartbeat, Vana'diel still feels like home to me and every so often I'll hear a song from the OST, or remember epic adventures with friends or tough battles that took us all night to beat... and I'll get the craving to resub, but every time I have I'm cruelly reminded that the game I loved, one of the best I've played no longer really exists.

So, I can relate to the OP despite his newness, I wish he'd have been able to enjoy XI in its prime, not the dead rotting chocobo that remains, the only movement being the result of SE continually kicking the corpse in hopes of tricking us into believing it's signs of life.

God I hate players like you with the nostalgia goggles bolted on tight. The game would have died if it stayed at 75 cap. You people have no idea what the hell you want. Go on a private server and play there, they have a few of them now.

[Ravenmore]

Nope. Aside from needing near completion of Chains of Promathia to accomplish, it wasn't added until the same update that introduced Salvage.

LOL so you don't consider that back in the day being over 5 years ago, half the life of the game(considering there are many MMOs that never see the 5 year mark that is pretty long time). Still doesn't change the fact if you were in a real endgame LS and not just the entry level sky LSes you had that and people still putzed around till the last min even when they did have warps and were still late.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

LOL so you don't consider that back in the day being over 5 years ago

When you're talking about a gap of over three years between the introduction of Tu'Lia and the introduction of the "Warrior of the Crystal" teleports, no.

[Demonviper]

God I hate players like you with the nostalgia goggles bolted on tight. The game would have died if it stayed at 75 cap. You people have no idea what the hell you want. Go on a private server and play there, they have a few of them now.

It's fine, I'm not exactly keen on players like you who'll happily gobble up whatever gets put on your plate without complaint regardless of how god awful it is.

So I guess I'm saying; I don't see us becoming friends.

[Damane]

It's fine, I'm not exactly keen on players like you who'll happily gobble up whatever gets put on your plate without complaint regardless of how god awful it is.

So I guess I'm saying; I don't see us becoming friends.

not to nitpick, but Draylo is right, put your nostalgia glasses down and move on... the game is in a very good spot compared to where it was pre lvl cap raise (pre-abyssea) and after abyssea.

[detlef]

This isn't WoW, but SE has turned it into a bad copy of it.

For me, this game is dead, It isn't the game that I fell in love with a decade ago, it's a complete mess of unbalanced content and broken systems and what's more, the game feels smaller and more restrictive for each new one that SE has tacked on.

If I could go back and play 75 cap XI again, I would in a heartbeat, Vana'diel still feels like home to me and every so often I'll hear a song from the OST, or remember epic adventures with friends or tough battles that took us all night to beat... and I'll get the craving to resub, but every time I have I'm cruelly reminded that the game I loved, one of the best I've played no longer really exists.

So, I can relate to the OP despite his newness, I wish he'd have been able to enjoy XI in its prime, not the dead rotting chocobo that remains, the only movement being the result of SE continually kicking the corpse in hopes of tricking us into believing it's signs of life.Those days are gone forever. You should just let 'em go.

[Direct]

What makes me laugh is we already farmed our af,dynamis gear se then release a new expansion and the playerbase laps it up that they have to go back to sky and old bcnms to to ilevel gear we already had, im sorry but se should be keeping us in the new zones not going back to do old fights we've already done.

[Camiie]

What makes me laugh is we already farmed our af,dynamis gear se then release a new expansion and the playerbase laps it up that they have to go back to sky and old bcnms to to ilevel gear we already had, im sorry but se should be keeping us in the new zones not going back to do old fights we've already done.

Well Job Points will effectively force us all to the new areas, so there's that. Be careful what you wish for.

[Eyeballed]

Those days are gone forever. You should just let 'em go.

But can you see him, his brown skin shining in the sun?

[Aldersyde]

What makes me laugh is we already farmed our af,dynamis gear se then release a new expansion and the playerbase laps it up that they have to go back to sky and old bcnms to to ilevel gear we already had, im sorry but se should be keeping us in the new zones not going back to do old fights we've already done.

Guess you missed all the threads where people were asking that old areas by made relevant again because the majority were sitting empty during/after abyssea. "I really miss how pretty such and such a zone was, it's sad that there's no reason to go there anymore...make people want to go there again!"

I don't envy Camate and the other reps one bit. No matter what SE does, there's always going to be some jackhole complaining..even when they're just doing what people ask them to do.

[Draylo]

I know it must suck for them. They create such a masterpiece to have these armchair developer obese meatheads come in and complaining 24/7.

[Demonjustin]

I know it must suck for them. They create such a masterpiece to have these armchair developer obese meatheads come in and complaining 24/7.Between one who complains endlessly and one who praises endlessly neither one deserve any true amount of respect nor credibility.

[Zarchery]

Guess you missed all the threads where people were asking that old areas by made relevant again because the majority were sitting empty during/after abyssea. "I really miss how pretty such and such a zone was, it's sad that there's no reason to go there anymore...make people want to go there again!"

I don't envy Camate and the other reps one bit. No matter what SE does, there's always going to be some jackhole complaining..even when they're just doing what people ask them to do.

That's just the nature of humanity. We're not a collective hivemind like the Borg. We're a group of individuals with our own separate and contradictory desires.

[FaeQueenCory]

What makes me laugh is we already farmed our af,dynamis gear se then release a new expansion and the playerbase laps it up that they have to go back to sky and old bcnms to to ilevel gear we already had, im sorry but se should be keeping us in the new zones not going back to do old fights we've already done.
That's actually bad game design.
It's called integration. Good games do it, using older content to support new etc.
And integrating new ideas into old content is always good.
Without doing this, games actually DO die.
And further, we wouldn't have half the stuff people prize without it. (Dynamis procs, Thaumas coat, +1 anything... Etc)

[Direct]

That's actually bad game design.
It's called integration. Good games do it, using older content to support new etc.
And integrating new ideas into old content is always good.
Without doing this, games actually DO die.
And further, we wouldn't have half the stuff people prize without it. (Dynamis procs, Thaumas coat, +1 anything... Etc)

No the playerbase are a bunch of mugs who will do the same old crap over and over again, we have already farmed af, dynams gear and now people go crazy just to upgrade the same old crap.

Lets have more new gear with new designs, sure use the old zones sky etc but give us new stuff not the same old crap with new stats that the playerbase fawn over.

[Damane]

No the playerbase are a bunch of mugs who will do the same old crap over and over again, we have already farmed af, dynams gear and now people go crazy just to upgrade the same old crap.

Lets have more new gear with new designs, sure use the old zones sky etc but give us new stuff not the same old crap with new stats that the playerbase fawn over.

I dont mind for AF Relic and empy upgrades. Those are iconical Job specific equipments, i like their design. HOwever i really DO NOT want to see sky abjuration/gear etc be upgraded... rather see a new event with new drops. Some things should be left to die, because they are too olde. If they really want to upgrade those items too, i rather have them revamp sky/sea etc. with new monsters for ilvl 119 players and have them wipe out the olde drops with new drops that have the same armor model. I am really tired atm haveing to carry around 392302939023 of old gear just because it "might" get upgraded.

[Zarchery]

No the playerbase are a bunch of mugs who will do the same old crap over and over again, we have already farmed af, dynams gear and now people go crazy just to upgrade the same old crap.

Lets have more new gear with new designs, sure use the old zones sky etc but give us new stuff not the same old crap with new stats that the playerbase fawn over.

See, your post is stupid. The reforged gear is new gear. It has a new name, new stats, and is acquired through new content. The only way it is "the same old crap" is because it looks the same. It's purely cosmetic.

At the same time, they are releasing new Delve and Skirmish zones with other equipment paths that look different.

[Calatilla]

What makes me laugh is we already farmed our af,dynamis gear se then release a new expansion and the playerbase laps it up that they have to go back to sky and old bcnms to to ilevel gear we already had, im sorry but se should be keeping us in the new zones not going back to do old fights we've already done.

Would you build an extension on your house and then ignore every other room apart from the new one? I think it's good that content is spread across old and new areas. I don't think all new content should only be in new areas.

[FaeQueenCory]

No the playerbase are a bunch of mugs who will do the same old crap over and over again, we have already farmed af, dynams gear and now people go crazy just to upgrade the same old crap.

Lets have more new gear with new designs, sure use the old zones sky etc but give us new stuff not the same old crap with new stats that the playerbase fawn over.
So... You're just gonna ignore the valid point about new gear that utilizes old content because... You're super lazy and don't want to do anything that's old?

I suppose then you should just not play FFXI... I mean... It's over ten years old! Nothing good comes from the past!
Better throw out every FF you have that isn't 14... Or I guess 13 since most of that trashy "game" is newer than 14.

And I guess that makes you the mug of mugs... Whatever that means... People are coffee containers?
Cause all you're doing is bitching while you do what you're complaining about.
No one is forcing you to reforge your AF sets.
If you don't want to, don't.

But it would be bad game design 101 to not integrate an expansion with the rest of the game.

[Ravenmore]

Would you build an extension on your house and then ignore every other room apart from the new one? I think it's good that content is spread across old and new areas. I don't think all new content should only be in new areas.

If they didn't already abuse it with all the reskins over WotG and abyssea then yeah you would have a point but they already over played that card.

[Damane]

its kinda depressing how hard it has become to get anything going during EU prime time. Cant even fill a 6 man PT for delve in the Shell, and if you shout there arent many options left :/

[Alhanelem]

I dunno, i'm up at odd hours, and have even been getting random stuff like Legion done (some group was looking to clear it to get meteor/arise scrolls). Could just be a right time right place kinda thing, or maybe your server is slower than Shiva.

Anyway, I do kind of agree with the same old crap sentiment, to an extent. Yes, it's nice for cosmetic purposes to upgrade the old gear, if you like the look of it. But a lot of people would rather have new, cool looking stuff and not just keep reusing the same stuff but updating the stats. At least we know we're staying at ilvl 119 for the forseeable future, so we are once again gaining more avialable sidegrades instead of purely a vertical treadmill.

[Olor]

I really like that they are upgrading AF, and honestly I would like them to upgrade some more items - if only because without that, people won't do the old content at all... and the new content is either boring or impossible to complete for me at the moment. I dunno, I also really liked having a lot of different items to choose from that were half decent for my char - from different events, so if I (say) wasn't good enough to do NNI, I could aim for Toci's harness vs the thaujmas. Yes, thaujamas are better, but I had something to work towards.

Right now there isn't a lot for me since I am locked out of relic/AF upgrades by lack of COP completion and while yes, I could work on COP completion that is not really fun at all for me so it certainly does not encourage me to log in... so basically there is WKR and Skirmish ... those are only two things I can do to improve my gear now, and I have most skirmish base peices now and almost everything I want from WKR (and people almost never do WKR anymore)

Basically, I'm saying if they either don't stop blocking me from working on AF/relic cause COP completion - or start adding new events or upgrading more old items (without cock blocking or at least without cock blocking that forces me to do tedious things solo) - I really won't have any reason to log in because there will be no more attainable upgrades for my character

[Lithera]

Who do you try to do NNI with? Just got the KI my self on Sunday in a MNKx2, blu, WHMx2 n a mule with mostly skirmish v1 gear.

[Olor]

Who do you try to do NNI with? Just got the KI my self on Sunday in a MNKx2, blu, WHMx2 n a mule with mostly skirmish v1 gear.

I haven't tried it recently. I don't have any interest in most non ilevel gear

[Lithera]

Ahh. We only did it for one of our mnks that just recently switched to the PC version of the game and needed the body that supposedly is the best tp top even though it's not ilv.

[Olor]

Ahh. We only did it for one of our mnks that just recently switched to the PC version of the game and needed the body that supposedly is the best tp top even though it's not ilv.

Yeah it is a good top, but given my playtime it isn't really worth my time trying to beg several folks to do the run with me. If I was going to beg people to do any nyzul it would be NQ nyzul since otherwise I will never get stringing pummel...

[Wincy]

Walking, running, watch CS, make friends so you can do content, buying stuff and selling stuff, dealing with retards, grinding RME, it's all part of the gameplay. Something someone else enjoys.


Well I am a little late to the party but wanted to comment on this.

First of all to the OP, I am shocked by how much you have been able to accomplish in such a short amount of time. Do you have any idea how long that would have taken to do years ago? In this respect, I think SE has done so much already to make the game more accessible (as you are requesting). Since you weren't around to see how it used to be, maybe you just don't realize this.

Myself I have been playing this game off and on for like 8 years, and I just resubbed this week after ~ 2 years away. I am VERY casual though, so I have not gotten very far in comparison to others. My highest job from the 75-cap-era is 63 PLD (I remember like the "lol turtle" kind of discussions, and Colibri PTs). I am only Sandy rank 5, have never completed CoP, never gone to Dynamis, etc etc. I was never really able to get into this content before due to the time commitments required. That being said I have like 59 DAYS in-game. Can you imagine that, especially in comparison to a modern MMO? 2 MONTHS of playing and I never even got all that close to the level cap. This is just a testament to the amount of content (fun) the game has to offer as you are on the journey towards the top.

What I have always loved about FFXI in comparison to other MMOs is just how sweet the rewards feel. Admittedly I haven't seen as much as a lot of you, but I do remember things like grinding out my Utsusemi: Ichi scroll and questing my PLD AF. If these goals are too easy, it just isn't anywhere near as exciting when you complete them. So in this way I think a little tedium can actually greatly enhance the experience, if that makes sense. Do you really think it would be as fun to have AF +1 if it was easy to get?

I LOVE the changes now, especially Trust NPCs and RoE, because they make it possible for me to go back and finally complete all these old objectives on my own time. I am really excited to progress more in CoP specifically. I guess there is a fine line between words like "hard" and "time consuming" and "easy." All I can say is I feel like the balance that exists now is pretty perfect. It is within my own power to slowly but surely progress on these goals. They are not too quick or easy, and so they are rewarding to complete, but at the same time at least it isn't so restrictive as it used to be. I can complete the content now, but it is still challenging enough for me to appreciate the rewards. Hopefully that makes sense to some of you.


Maybe someone else who haven't finish everything also enjoys it, and now you're asking SE to take it away from them too


Yep this is me!

[Spellcaster]

this is a sad thread on a sunken game

[SNK]

This thread was amusing.....