Combo Job Abilities

[Blah]

Since developers are thinking about adding new abilities I'd like to put this one out there: Combo abilities for each job combination. A little more work but if well thought out very rewarding.

[L0IRE]

Since developers are thinking about adding new abilities I'd like to put this one out there: Combo abilities for each job combination. A little more work but if well thought out very rewarding.

Like a specific ability for say War/Mnk and an entirely different ability for War/Thf kind of thing?

[Blah]

Yeah exactly , they could (and probably would make it a 2hr ability but I was kinda hoping for you know level 15 get a combo ability, level 20 another. Maybe even think of some Combo spells if you have red mage/ blue mage or black mage/scholar, you know?

[L0IRE]

yeah that would be a good cool concept

[Kafrein]

It would certainly help make people experiment more with support job combinations. I play a Blue Mage so I like to experiment, but often times it's just not worth it. I am /DNC most of the time playing solo just because nothing else is as useful. Giving each support job more of a reason to use it would be really fun. One of the things I love about this game is the job system so making people want to experiment more would be great...

[L0IRE]

It would certainly help make people experiment more with support job combinations. I play a Blue Mage so I like to experiment, but often times it's just not worth it. I am /DNC most of the time playing solo just because nothing else is as useful. Giving each support job more of a reason to use it would be really fun. One of the things I love about this game is the job system so making people want to experiment more would be great...

yeah I agree with you, I got /DNC on my BLU aswell for soloing, but if you had say a BLU specific skill with other classes, it would probly help, and yeah as far as classes go, no other game compares....im looking at you ffxiv

[Blah]

Bump bump bump :D

[Hvinire]

While this idea is interesting, there is a possibility that it would reduce the amount of choices players can make when it comes to selecting which support job to use, and this isn't something we would like to have happen. As we don't want to reduce the viable choices players have for support jobs, we would instead like to make adjustments that expand player's support job options.

[Olor]

While this idea is interesting, there is a possibility that it would reduce the amount of choices players can make when it comes to selecting which support job to use, and this isn't something we would like to have happen. As we don't want to reduce the viable choices players have for support jobs, we would instead like to make adjustments that expand player's support job options.

If this is true would you consider giving at least level 1 dual wield to more jobs? Right now with the difference between dual wield and no dual wield is very large for many jobs - meaning only DNC or NIN can effectively be subbed. Wouldn't it be better if people could choose to sub dancer because they want to use waltzes etc rather than because they need dual wield to be competitive?

Please consider at least adding Dual Wield 1 to Beastmaster, Red mage, and Bard.

Bard doesn't get any benefit from single wielding, meaning there is no benefit almost ever to using daggers over staves... even though daggers are our main weapon.

Beastmaster's shield selection is crappy so it loses out big time if it doesn't get the extra TP/damage/stats from DW

[Blah]

While this idea is interesting, there is a possibility that it would reduce the amount of choices players can make when it comes to selecting which support job to use, and this isn't something we would like to have happen. As we don't want to reduce the viable choices players have for support jobs, we would instead like to make adjustments that expand player's support job options.
Ah, in what way could it possibly limit choices? I suggested it to expand our choices. After all if I have a cool job ability for, say dark knight/ corsair and another for dark knight/ red mage I would be more inclined to do both of them instead of dark knight/ warrior all the time. Enlighten me, how could it limit our support job possibilities any more than they are limited right now?

[Blah]

Edit: cool COMBO job ability for dark knight/ corsair and another for dark knight/ red mage.

[Demonjustin]

It could limit it by having some abilities so powerful that they become expected. For instance how THF used to be expected to /NIN, or how any single-handed job in the game is forced to /NIN or /DNC to DD well due to needing Dual Wield. Once you have such powerful things such as Dual Wield that you can only get from certain sub-jobs, it becomes a near requirement to have it.

[Afania]

It could limit it by having some abilities so powerful that they become expected. For instance how THF used to be expected to /NIN, or how any single-handed job in the game is forced to /NIN or /DNC to DD well due to needing Dual Wield. Once you have such powerful things such as Dual Wield that you can only get from certain sub-jobs, it becomes a near requirement to have it.

They can balance every combo job JA to a point that every combo JA are equally useful in every situation. But knowing SE it'd require too much resource for them. It's hard to balance 22 jobs without worrying about combo JA, let alone balance 22 jobs WITH different combo JA.

[Demonjustin]

They can balance every combo job JA to a point that every combo JA are equally useful in every situation. But knowing SE it'd require too much resource for them. It's hard to balance 22 jobs without worrying about combo JA, let alone balance 22 jobs WITH different combo JA.They have failed to balance 22 jobs properly, or if you want to limit it a bit, they have failed to balance even 2 different tanks properly so that both have a real use, since PLD massively crushes RUN in use, if they fail to balance these jobs, what leads anyone to believe that they could balance these JAs? Especially if you are talking about an unique ability for every combo, that is 21 extra abilities for every job that would need to be balanced, that is an overall grand total of 462 abilities which would need to be overall balanced for the game so that they do not make jobs more powerful than one another in a massive way such as the aforementioned tanks.

I like the idea, but I have no faith what so ever that it could ever result in a good outcome in this game.

[Cabalabob]

They can balance

hehe hahaha! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Blah]

Eh more than likely it'll just come down to if they're willing...and the answer is as always NO

[Darwena]

"they can balance".

Pffff...pffff... Mouhahahahahaha...

Best joke ever, thanks.

[Kaiichi]

Can you give /SCH access to Thunderstorm and Thunder II? I'm OCD like that.

[Kafrein]

Yes, I think this would be a way to EXPAND choices, not limit them. At the moment people only tend to sub certain jobs, some combinations are entirely unheard of or laughed at...

[Selindrile]

SE Reasoning: Combo JAs would possibly make it so there's only one desired subjob choice.
Reality: There's only one desired subjob choice for each event, currently.

Substantially changing something about subjob choices could either exacerbate this problem, or lessen it, depending on what the devs create, but don't tell us that issue doesn't already exist, it makes us think none of you actually play the game, because it's already overwhelmingly the case, creating more powerful abilities for currently unused job combinations and weak ones for currently used ones would actually increase variability among playstyles.

The real reason not to do this is that if you want to treat all jobs fairly it would involve creating 462 unique abilities (22 Jobs x 21 Subjobs), or 231 if you wanted War/Nin to have the same abilities as Nin/War. I don't blame you for not wanting to do it, but lets be honest about why.... It took us how long to get 22 new JAs (SP2s), the OP is kinda asking for the moon here, even if it's a cool concept.

http://www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html

Permutations without repetition (n=22, r=2) List has 462 entries.

{War,Whm} {War,Blm} {War,Mnk} {War,Thf} {War,Rdm} {War,Pld} {War,Drk} {War,Bst} {War,Brd} {War,Rng} {War,Sam} {War,Nin} {War,Drg} {War,Smn} {War,Blu} {War,Cor} {War,Pup} {War,Dnc} {War,Sch} {War,Geo} {War,Run} {Whm,War} {Whm,Blm} {Whm,Mnk} {Whm,Thf} {Whm,Rdm} {Whm,Pld} {Whm,Drk} {Whm,Bst} {Whm,Brd} {Whm,Rng} {Whm,Sam} {Whm,Nin} {Whm,Drg} {Whm,Smn} {Whm,Blu} {Whm,Cor} {Whm,Pup} {Whm,Dnc} {Whm,Sch} {Whm,Geo} {Whm,Run} {Blm,War} {Blm,Whm} {Blm,Mnk} {Blm,Thf} {Blm,Rdm} {Blm,Pld} {Blm,Drk} {Blm,Bst} {Blm,Brd} {Blm,Rng} {Blm,Sam} {Blm,Nin} {Blm,Drg} {Blm,Smn} {Blm,Blu} {Blm,Cor} {Blm,Pup} {Blm,Dnc} {Blm,Sch} {Blm,Geo} {Blm,Run} {Mnk,War} {Mnk,Whm} {Mnk,Blm} {Mnk,Thf} {Mnk,Rdm} {Mnk,Pld} {Mnk,Drk} {Mnk,Bst} {Mnk,Brd} {Mnk,Rng} {Mnk,Sam} {Mnk,Nin} {Mnk,Drg} {Mnk,Smn} {Mnk,Blu} {Mnk,Cor} {Mnk,Pup} {Mnk,Dnc} {Mnk,Sch} {Mnk,Geo} {Mnk,Run} {Thf,War} {Thf,Whm} {Thf,Blm} {Thf,Mnk} {Thf,Rdm} {Thf,Pld} {Thf,Drk} {Thf,Bst} {Thf,Brd} {Thf,Rng} {Thf,Sam} {Thf,Nin} {Thf,Drg} {Thf,Smn} {Thf,Blu} {Thf,Cor} {Thf,Pup} {Thf,Dnc} {Thf,Sch} {Thf,Geo} {Thf,Run} {Rdm,War} {Rdm,Whm} {Rdm,Blm} {Rdm,Mnk} {Rdm,Thf} {Rdm,Pld} {Rdm,Drk} {Rdm,Bst} {Rdm,Brd} {Rdm,Rng} {Rdm,Sam} {Rdm,Nin} {Rdm,Drg} {Rdm,Smn} {Rdm,Blu} {Rdm,Cor} {Rdm,Pup} {Rdm,Dnc} {Rdm,Sch} {Rdm,Geo} {Rdm,Run} {Pld,War} {Pld,Whm} {Pld,Blm} {Pld,Mnk} {Pld,Thf} {Pld,Rdm} {Pld,Drk} {Pld,Bst} {Pld,Brd} {Pld,Rng} {Pld,Sam} {Pld,Nin} {Pld,Drg} {Pld,Smn} {Pld,Blu} {Pld,Cor} {Pld,Pup} {Pld,Dnc} {Pld,Sch} {Pld,Geo} {Pld,Run} {Drk,War} {Drk,Whm} {Drk,Blm} {Drk,Mnk} {Drk,Thf} {Drk,Rdm} {Drk,Pld} {Drk,Bst} {Drk,Brd} {Drk,Rng} {Drk,Sam} {Drk,Nin} {Drk,Drg} {Drk,Smn} {Drk,Blu} {Drk,Cor} {Drk,Pup} {Drk,Dnc} {Drk,Sch} {Drk,Geo} {Drk,Run} {Bst,War} {Bst,Whm} {Bst,Blm} {Bst,Mnk} {Bst,Thf} {Bst,Rdm} {Bst,Pld} {Bst,Drk} {Bst,Brd} {Bst,Rng} {Bst,Sam} {Bst,Nin} {Bst,Drg} {Bst,Smn} {Bst,Blu} {Bst,Cor} {Bst,Pup} {Bst,Dnc} {Bst,Sch} {Bst,Geo} {Bst,Run} {Brd,War} {Brd,Whm} {Brd,Blm} {Brd,Mnk} {Brd,Thf} {Brd,Rdm} {Brd,Pld} {Brd,Drk} {Brd,Bst} {Brd,Rng} {Brd,Sam} {Brd,Nin} {Brd,Drg} {Brd,Smn} {Brd,Blu} {Brd,Cor} {Brd,Pup} {Brd,Dnc} {Brd,Sch} {Brd,Geo} {Brd,Run} {Rng,War} {Rng,Whm} {Rng,Blm} {Rng,Mnk} {Rng,Thf} {Rng,Rdm} {Rng,Pld} {Rng,Drk} {Rng,Bst} {Rng,Brd} {Rng,Sam} {Rng,Nin} {Rng,Drg} {Rng,Smn} {Rng,Blu} {Rng,Cor} {Rng,Pup} {Rng,Dnc} {Rng,Sch} {Rng,Geo} {Rng,Run} {Sam,War} {Sam,Whm} {Sam,Blm} {Sam,Mnk} {Sam,Thf} {Sam,Rdm} {Sam,Pld} {Sam,Drk} {Sam,Bst} {Sam,Brd} {Sam,Rng} {Sam,Nin} {Sam,Drg} {Sam,Smn} {Sam,Blu} {Sam,Cor} {Sam,Pup} {Sam,Dnc} {Sam,Sch} {Sam,Geo} {Sam,Run} {Nin,War} {Nin,Whm} {Nin,Blm} {Nin,Mnk} {Nin,Thf} {Nin,Rdm} {Nin,Pld} {Nin,Drk} {Nin,Bst} {Nin,Brd} {Nin,Rng} {Nin,Sam} {Nin,Drg} {Nin,Smn} {Nin,Blu} {Nin,Cor} {Nin,Pup} {Nin,Dnc} {Nin,Sch} {Nin,Geo} {Nin,Run} {Drg,War} {Drg,Whm} {Drg,Blm} {Drg,Mnk} {Drg,Thf} {Drg,Rdm} {Drg,Pld} {Drg,Drk} {Drg,Bst} {Drg,Brd} {Drg,Rng} {Drg,Sam} {Drg,Nin} {Drg,Smn} {Drg,Blu} {Drg,Cor} {Drg,Pup} {Drg,Dnc} {Drg,Sch} {Drg,Geo} {Drg,Run} {Smn,War} {Smn,Whm} {Smn,Blm} {Smn,Mnk} {Smn,Thf} {Smn,Rdm} {Smn,Pld} {Smn,Drk} {Smn,Bst} {Smn,Brd} {Smn,Rng} {Smn,Sam} {Smn,Nin} {Smn,Drg} {Smn,Blu} {Smn,Cor} {Smn,Pup} {Smn,Dnc} {Smn,Sch} {Smn,Geo} {Smn,Run} {Blu,War} {Blu,Whm} {Blu,Blm} {Blu,Mnk} {Blu,Thf} {Blu,Rdm} {Blu,Pld} {Blu,Drk} {Blu,Bst} {Blu,Brd} {Blu,Rng} {Blu,Sam} {Blu,Nin} {Blu,Drg} {Blu,Smn} {Blu,Cor} {Blu,Pup} {Blu,Dnc} {Blu,Sch} {Blu,Geo} {Blu,Run} {Cor,War} {Cor,Whm} {Cor,Blm} {Cor,Mnk} {Cor,Thf} {Cor,Rdm} {Cor,Pld} {Cor,Drk} {Cor,Bst} {Cor,Brd} {Cor,Rng} {Cor,Sam} {Cor,Nin} {Cor,Drg} {Cor,Smn} {Cor,Blu} {Cor,Pup} {Cor,Dnc} {Cor,Sch} {Cor,Geo} {Cor,Run} {Pup,War} {Pup,Whm} {Pup,Blm} {Pup,Mnk} {Pup,Thf} {Pup,Rdm} {Pup,Pld} {Pup,Drk} {Pup,Bst} {Pup,Brd} {Pup,Rng} {Pup,Sam} {Pup,Nin} {Pup,Drg} {Pup,Smn} {Pup,Blu} {Pup,Cor} {Pup,Dnc} {Pup,Sch} {Pup,Geo} {Pup,Run} {Dnc,War} {Dnc,Whm} {Dnc,Blm} {Dnc,Mnk} {Dnc,Thf} {Dnc,Rdm} {Dnc,Pld} {Dnc,Drk} {Dnc,Bst} {Dnc,Brd} {Dnc,Rng} {Dnc,Sam} {Dnc,Nin} {Dnc,Drg} {Dnc,Smn} {Dnc,Blu} {Dnc,Cor} {Dnc,Pup} {Dnc,Sch} {Dnc,Geo} {Dnc,Run} {Sch,War} {Sch,Whm} {Sch,Blm} {Sch,Mnk} {Sch,Thf} {Sch,Rdm} {Sch,Pld} {Sch,Drk} {Sch,Bst} {Sch,Brd} {Sch,Rng} {Sch,Sam} {Sch,Nin} {Sch,Drg} {Sch,Smn} {Sch,Blu} {Sch,Cor} {Sch,Pup} {Sch,Dnc} {Sch,Geo} {Sch,Run} {Geo,War} {Geo,Whm} {Geo,Blm} {Geo,Mnk} {Geo,Thf} {Geo,Rdm} {Geo,Pld} {Geo,Drk} {Geo,Bst} {Geo,Brd} {Geo,Rng} {Geo,Sam} {Geo,Nin} {Geo,Drg} {Geo,Smn} {Geo,Blu} {Geo,Cor} {Geo,Pup} {Geo,Dnc} {Geo,Sch} {Geo,Run} {Run,War} {Run,Whm} {Run,Blm} {Run,Mnk} {Run,Thf} {Run,Rdm} {Run,Pld} {Run,Drk} {Run,Bst} {Run,Brd} {Run,Rng} {Run,Sam} {Run,Nin} {Run,Drg} {Run,Smn} {Run,Blu} {Run,Cor} {Run,Pup} {Run,Dnc} {Run,Sch} {Run,Geo}

[Blah]

Ah well now obviously if it's the same job (black mage/ scholar, scholar/ black mage) I expect it to have the same combo job ability, maybe tweaked a bit but the same. I think you all (and SE) seem to think I want it all and I want it now. No I don't. I want it to be thought out, planned and implemented gradually, like on the test server (remember the test server? Are they even using it anymore to, ya know, TEST ideas before they try them??) Then if it does well THEN introduce it slowly, like maybe 4 jobs at a time. Not all 400+ abilities at once. That's foolish.

[Selindrile]

Ah if it has the same combo ability that's only 231 different and unique JA that may need to be tweaked, the dev team never does anything quickly, and nobody uses the test server.

As far as I can tell, they first started telling us they were working on new SPs on June, 2012, they were released on November, 2013, or 18 months for 22 abilities, meaning they'd finish your request if they started working on it today in 189 months, so sometime in the year 2030.

[Blah]

Ah if it has the same combo ability that's only 231 different and unique JA that may need to be tweaked, the dev team never does anything quickly, and nobody uses the test server.

As far as I can tell, they first started telling us they were working on new SPs on June, 2012, they were released on November, 2013, or 18 months for 22 abilities, meaning they'd finish your request if they started working on it today in 189 months, so sometime in the year 2030.
Now wait a minute don't say "nobody uses the test server" because there are quite a few complaints on that thread by people who are actually playing on it. And yes I know they seem to take forever but usually it's for stuff like, well, balancing out jobs, fixing stuff in the game that's been broken forever, but putting out new things, item leveling, the new battle systems and stuff like that they seem to be able to roll right out so was hoping they would do the same here or something similar. At least something similar if combo abilities will take too much time and resources.

[Dreus]

Revisited simple job adjustments like allowing people who sub bard or cor to use two rolls isn't ground breaking. I was thinking about the idea that just having the option to use pet job abilities from bst as a drg would be cool, offer boosts to wyvern pet when drg subs /bst, same goes for smn, just getting to use assault and boosting pet parameters would be awesome to have the option.

[Dreus]

Another idea would be giving, tp bonuses to certain job combos, that are normally non viable, so for
Examples:
war/geo - grants TP bonus +1000 for earth crusher, conserve tp +20
brd/sam: Give TP back to party members who participated in the skill chain.
drk/blm - Gain mp when using staff weapon skills, or let occult ocumen stack.