Skirmish 119 Armor Upgrade Path

[larrymc]

I was very glad to see that there are plans to allow us to upgrade skirmish armor to iLevel 119. The current skirmish armor, with quality upgrades is some of the best mage gear in slot, beating out 119 AF, and 119 Delve.

Many of us have spent a lot of time & gil trying to get the perfect augment set (or multiple sets) on Skirmish gear.

Is the plan for the 119 upgrade path to wipe out & erase those augments and make us re-acquire them with the higher level gear?

[Louispv]

Obviously. the 119 armor is an entirely different item from the 113 item, and thus will not have the same augments as an entirely different item. This is what you get with item level systems, nothing you work on matters for a more than a month, because you'll have to toss it when you get something better in the next event.

Of course, had we leveled up through an extended merit system, or had we just increased our actual levels, our work wouldn't be wasted, because our strength would come from our characters getting stronger rather than our gear. That and you would have to take all 22 jobs to level 119, instead of now, where you take BRD to 119, and use it to get the gear for the other 21, instantly jumping them to 119 at the same time.

[Demonjustin]

Obviously. the 119 armor is an entirely different item from the 113 item, and thus will not have the same augments as an entirely different item. This is what you get with item level systems, nothing you work on matters for a more than a month, because you'll have to toss it when you get something better in the next event.While I know you are sadly correct, I have to say, lets give them some credit, they haven't raised the limit from 119 as of yet since back in the second month of Adoulin, and they have let these pieces be the top pieces of gear for many things and many jobs for about half a year, so, its not that bad by compare to 'nothing you work on matters for more than a month', but I know, meant as an exaggeration.

I still hope they find a way to transfer them or something, otherwise we are going to have a lot of angry and disappointed people on these forums, or at least, more so than now.

[Louispv]

I still hope they find a way to transfer them or something, otherwise we are going to have a lot of angry and disappointed people on these forums, or at least, more so than now.
They can't, it's literally impossible. Every single possible augment ends with a different item the game has to keep track of. The game isn't taking your hagondes coat, changing it's stats, and giving it back to you, it's deleting your old one and handing you back a new one. That's why you can't store anything with augments without losing them. In order to keep the augments of the 113 gear on your 119 gear, they would need to create a different upgrade path for every single 113 augment possible, into every single 119 augment possible, and turn 25 items the game has to remember into millions of them.

That one change could be the size of an expansion and probably have to come on a disc by itself.

[Demonjustin]

They can't, it's literally impossible.I won't pretend that I understand exactly how their system works for it, but, I assume every augment has a different 'code' of some sort that makes it a distinct item in its own right, that way when you log on for instance it can tell what augments you had before, rather than just forgetting them and giving you no augments every time you log in. Now, assuming it does save it in such a way where the game can tell that piece apart from another Hagondes Coat, there seems to be no reason why the game could not just look at your Hagondes Coat, see that it has +25 MAB, and then give you your new Hagondes Coat +1 with +25 MAB Pre-Augmented on it by applying the 'code' to that new one that would give it the same augment. Just how I see it at least.

[Camiie]

So basically we'll have to downgrade our gear before we upgrade it, because there's no way the new gear will be better out of the box than our old gear with augments.

[Louispv]

So basically we'll have to downgrade our gear before we upgrade it, because there's no way the new gear will be better out of the box than our old gear with augments.

Or just get a second set to upgrade and use the old one till you get something better. It's not as if you're not sitting on hundreds of lebadopt wings after a couple dozen runs anyway.

The game can't see the +25MAB bit of code on your coat because it doesn't exist. There's a piece of code for the unaugmented coat with +10 MAB, and then there's code for a completely different Hagondes coat with +35 MAB. It's not the same unaugmented coat with 25 more MAB stapled to it.

[Camiie]

Getting the gear itself has never been the problem. It's getting the augments you want that are the roadblock.

[Demonjustin]

The game can't see the +25MAB bit of code on your coat because it doesn't exist. There's a piece of code for the unaugmented coat with +10 MAB, and then there's code for a completely different Hagondes coat with +35 MAB. It's not the same unaugmented coat with 25 more MAB stapled to it.Which~ is what I said.
I won't pretend that I understand exactly how their system works for it, but, I assume every augment has a different 'code' of some sort that makes it a distinct item in its own rightBy which I meant exactly what you just said, following that I said...
Now, assuming it does save it in such a way where the game can tell that piece apart from another Hagondes Coat, there seems to be no reason why the game could not just look at your Hagondes Coat, see that it has +25 MAB, and then give you your new Hagondes Coat +1 with +25 MAB Pre-Augmented on it by applying the 'code' to that new one that would give it the same augment.By this I meant that for instance, and I know this is now how the code would look really but bare with me my dumbed down example, if the code for Hagondes were 2113XXXX, the first X being the PDT augment while the second is determining what the extra augment is, and the third/fourth Xs are the potency of the augment. So lets say that extra augment 0 is nothing, 1 is Fast Cast, 2 is Enmity-, 3 is MAB, 4 is MAcc, 5 is Pet MAB, and 6 is Avatar Perp. Now lets also say that Hagondes +1 will be 2119XXXX with the same idea behind the Xs. All they would have to do to transfer your augments for a 4 PDT 25 MAB Hagondes Coat to a Hagondes Coat +1 would be for the game to look at your Coat, see that its code is 21134325 and give you a Hagondes Coat +1 with a code of 21194325, thus, you are given a Coat with the same augment without any problems.

I fail to see why if they are distinct items in their own right that SE can not simply pair up the numbers, codes, whatever, with one another so that when upgrading an augmented piece you receive an augmented piece in return.

[Demonjustin]

Getting the gear itself has never been the problem. It's getting the augments you want that are the roadblock.I believe what he is saying is that rather than upgrading your current armor with its augments being lost you should simply use Wings or Yorcia to get another copy of the item, then upgrade that new blank one to try augmenting and until it surpasses the stats of your original simply do not use it, thus, you keep your original with its augments so long as your new one is not superior. It makes sense and it will or should work, but its still poor by compare to simply giving the augments to the new gear.

[Louispv]

Which~ is what I said.By which I meant exactly what you just said, following that I said...By this I meant that for instance, and I know this is now how the code would look really but bare with me my dumbed down example, if the code for Hagondes were 2113XXXX, the first X being the PDT augment while the second is determining what the extra augment is, and the third/fourth Xs are the potency of the augment. So lets say that extra augment 0 is nothing, 1 is Fast Cast, 2 is Enmity-, 3 is MAB, 4 is MAcc, 5 is Pet MAB, and 6 is Avatar Perp. Now lets also say that Hagondes +1 will be 2119XXXX with the same idea behind the Xs. All they would have to do to transfer your augments for a 4 PDT 25 MAB Hagondes Coat to a Hagondes Coat +1 would be for the game to look at your Coat, see that its code is 21134325 and give you a Hagondes Coat +1 with a code of 21194325, thus, you are given a Coat with the same augment without any problems.

I fail to see why if they are distinct items in their own right that SE can not simply pair up the numbers, codes, whatever, with one another so that when upgrading an augmented piece you receive an augmented piece in return.

The problem with that is they don't just have to program the output, they have to do the inputs too. Right now, you trade them a Hagondes coat. It's just a base hagondes coat, even if it has augments, and you keep them, it's giving you back a different coat with the same stats. There's just the one base coat, and 9999 coats that can come out. That way the NPC you trade it to only has to recognize the one Hagondes Coat.

If you wanted to keep your augments, they'd need to make 9999 inputs, each of which has 9999 outputs. The NPC would have to be programmed to accept 9999 different items for trade, rather than 1. They'd have to program in 21130001, and all the different augments you can end up with 21190000->21199999. Then 21130002 and all of 21190000 -> 2119999 it can become. Then 21130003 and all of it's, etc. Not gonna happen, because they save time by just wiping augments and using the unaugmented coat as the base, so they only need to keep track of one input, since there's so damned many outputs to keep track of.

[Demonjustin]

If it were the way you are saying it then it makes little sense they would have the ability for you to trade an Augmented Hagondes Coat in and still choose to keep those augments rather than your new augments due to the fact that when trading it in you are saying it only sees a Hagondes Coat, not an Augmented Hagondes Coat, at which point when entering the conversation it should not recognize the augments that were already present. If it is its own distinct item once augmented it stands to reason when you trade the item it does not see a Hagondes Coat, but rather it sees an Augmented Hagondes Coat with its specific augments, meaning if it has to have multiple inputs for each augment combination then it would make sense that in order to even allow you to keep your current augments it would have to do the same, so it knows what to give you back in the event you choose to keep your current ones.

If when trading the coat it can see the augments already present it would seem that it is getting all of that data included into the conversation as well, at which point you can conclude that either they need not make an input for each of the subsequent outputs in the way you describe or that they already have for the current version of the system.