[Dev1167] Mes'Yohi

[Malphius]

Think we can take this opportunity to add DRG to Haubergeons? Why have they never been able to wear these? Lets please just fix this now :D I'd really like to be able to use this on my DRG as i'm sure everyone else would.

[Ophannus]

Because DRGs cannot wear any chainmail class of armor and Haubergeon is a chainmail type. Mes'Yohi is a ilvl Haubergeon so we can't wear it, however they may add an ilvl 'Scorpion Harness" or something for light DDs which DRG will be on. This may seem lame but occasionally light armor bodies have better stats than heavy armor bodies (Thaumas Coat vs Phorcys Korazin)

[Rwolf]

Pretty weak counter argument. DRG can wear a bunch of heavy armor so that lore of the job is already broken. Cizin set, Ares set, Calma set, Fazheluo Mail, Hrafn/Huginn set, etc. Yes specificially not anything that says chainmail but they are on a bunch of heavy armor sets. I think it's a pretty legitimate thing to ask for seeing as DRG is 2handed melee job and the game isn't like it was back then. Also DRG isn't on Thaumas so it's not a really good comparison. If I had to guess anything they just transferred the original jobs on Haubergeon, but WHM also got their own Haubergeon so there goes that theory that it's only meant for X jobs. I think it's a legitimate request.

[Tamarsamar]

Because DRGs cannot wear any chainmail class of armor and Haubergeon is a chainmail type.

Ninjas can wear chainmail.

Your argument is invalid.

[Karah]

Also, haubert is another "form" of Hauberk/haubergeon

And Dragoon can clearly wear;
http://www.ffxiah.com/item/27925/karieyh-haubert
http://www.ffxiah.com/item/27907/gorney-haubert
http://www.ffxiah.com/item/11873/hrafn-haubert

It's just a silly argument though, really.

http://darksword-armory.com/blog/the-evolution-of-the-medieval-sword-in-the-13th-15th-centuries/attachment/13th-c-chain-mail-armor-haubert/

13th C. chain mail armor – haubert
http://i42.tinypic.com/28hg6s2.jpg

Also;
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Chainmail

Chainmail (チェインメイル, Chein Meiru?), also called Chain Mail and Chain Plate (チェインプレイト, Chein Pureito?), is a recurring armor in the series. It is often a mid-ranked armor that is used by heavy melee classes such as Warrior and Dragoon, and usually provides decent Defense. It often does not provide any additional bonuses.

Direct quote from Final Fantasy Tactics, about Dragoons, wearing chainmail.

And;
lolinsult to injury; http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Ancient_Dragoon_Chainmail_Coat

One more for good measure lol;
http://legendofdragoon.neoseeker.com/wiki/Chain_Mail

Last one I promise;
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Aetherial_Steel_Chainmail (wearable by YOU GUESSED IT A DRAGOON!)

[Ophannus]

Dragoons cant wear haubergeons in FFXI. You can argue all you want but the fact remains. We can't wear near-eastern armor or chainmail. FFXI isn't FF5 or FFT Tactics either, so the Chainmail reference is a poor one as Dragoons in FFXI are different from every other iteration of Dragoon. Just because in previous FF games we can wear chainmail doesn't mean we should in FFXI. FFXI Dragoons don't get "Dragon Arts' or Holy Breath and we have a Wyvern.

Haubergeons are a subclass of chainmail gear. We cannot wear chainmails except for special unique sets. Chainmails and haubergeons are exempt to Dragoons(notice DRG can wear Espial gear which is a Gambison type but cannot wear Outrider which is chainmail type).

"Haubert" is different subclass of gear which we can wear. Originally DRG could not wear heavy plate armor except for a specific subtype of Corazza(Barone, Amir, Askar) so the same goes for chainmail, we cannot wear any except for Haubert types which Mes 'Yohi is not.

[Karah]

That's literally what I said;

It's just a silly argument though, really.


A dragoon (anyone) should be able to wear whatever the hell they want, fuzzy pink booties? sure. You want to use a bow? Go for it.

It's just another one of SE's Arbitrary decisions saying no, drg cannot wear this.

Just pointing out the fact that the lore DOES support that a Dragoon can in fact wear chainmails.

And the point is, "why can't they, if the lore supports it?"

The answer; Arbitrary decision, that could easily be reversed, which is all the Op is asking, and there's no logical reason not to support it.

[Ophannus]

I suspect these new battlefields will drop gear reminiscent of what players wore when these fights were new. At the time of 2004 zilart era, endgame gear included Haubergeons and Scorpion Harnesses. I suspect that Mes'Yohi is an ilvl neo-haubergeon and the piece that will be for THF/BLU/DRG/MNK/DNC/PUP etc will be a scorpion harness model that will have ilvl equivalent scorpion harness relevant stats e.g stat vomit, and like 30-40 acc/30-40 evasion and 4-5% haste.

On a similar topic if they do, as a trend, release era-relevant gear for these new battlefields, we can expect a neo ilvl Barone Corazza from one of the CoP ilvl fights which may be boss for DRG.

[Karah]

No one is arguing that point at all, clearly they're going to retool probably every piece of old armor and stat-vomit it.

Sure dragoon has a myriad of options, and haubergon and haubergeon vII are not amongst them. Even though, they should be, nothing more nothing less.

Personally don't care either way, only reason I even posted is that I agree with the op from a LOGIC standpoint, I know logic is hard to grasp, but there it is.

[Rwolf]

I agree, I don't think anyone is saying that DRG might not be on a ilevel119 Scorpion Harness. Guessing that they aren't on Haubergeon because there might be a Scorpion Harness is one thing. Saying no, DRG is not and cannot be on chainmail/heavy armor is another. Though honestly I'd rather DRG be added to the Haubergeon, seeing as they already have Accuracy Bonus III. It was wrong back then for them not to be on it, still wrong now.

[Demonjustin]

Ninjas can wear chainmail.

Your argument is invalid.http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/attachment.php?attachmentid=8649&d=1389690712
Ninjas can wear the new body too, how is his argument invalid again? He said DRGs could not wear it, thats correct, they never could, and NIN is able to use it as always, so really, I'm at a loss as to how that is inaccurate.

I suspect that Mes'Yohi is an ilvl neo-haubergeon and the piece that will be for THF/BLU/DRG/MNK/DNC/PUP etc will be a scorpion harness model that will have ilvl equivalent scorpion harness relevant stats e.g stat vomit, and like 30-40 acc/30-40 evasion and 4-5% haste.I agree, but don't forget RDM in there, we want it too!

[Karah]

The fact that WHM can wear http://www.ffxiah.com/item/14469/reverend-mail clearly shows that anyjob can wear whatever they want, if so chosen arbitrarily by SE.

Arguing any further point is moot, either agree or disagree, that's all that's left to do here.

Everyone's opinion is/was/willalwaysbe irrelevant as SE makes the decision who wears what.

So support the change or not.

The lore supports that A Dargoon can wear a Haubergeon, SE doesn't see fit to make that true.

[Malphius]

Well i'm glad this got some replies. I actually just muled and stored all my DRG gear a week before I posted this. The job is dead atm which is a shame because it was actually starting to close the gap between other DD's but now I feel like it's falling behind again. I really don't care what the lore is or was, I just want it to be over with. Back in the day they added a JSE body called Thrakon Breastplate so something like that could be an option, but it was still very sub-par compared to Hauby.

For those saying ilv119 scorpion harness etc... that's all good and fine but I imagine that to be high in evasion, accuracy, dexterity and agility. Nothing a DRG actually needs so that's worthless.

C'mon SE, end the DRG haubegeon ban!

[detlef]

Job's still good. Piercing, Angon, and the ability to shed hate regularly.

[Malphius]

Yeah but not good enough.

[Ophannus]

Actually DRG/NIN is basically as good as RNG in AA and much easier to find than a relic rng.

Also Mes'Yohi isn't that great. It's an HQ http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/4/45/Gorney_Haubert_description.png

[Demonjustin]

9 STR, 14 DEX, 9 VIT, 30 Attack, 15 Accuracy, and 50 Defense difference, on top of everything else. Thats a bit difference, and makes it much, much better, especially in content that hits so hard and has such high EVA/DEF as the AAs do.

[Malphius]

Yeah that's a huge difference. Gorney and Mes'Yohi aren't even close. It's in a league of it's own.

[Ophannus]

Meh who knows, the piece for other melee could very well be something retardedly good like STR+25 DEX+34 VIT+25 AGI+30 MND+20 INT+19 Attack+10 Accuracy +40 Quadruple Attack +3%

[Demonjustin]

Could, probably won't be, but could. :x

[Tamarsamar]

Ninjas can wear the new body too, how is his argument invalid again?

I'm perfectly aware that Ninjas can wear it while Dragoons can't, much like the original Haubergeon. That's exactly why I brought it up--my point being that it's (still--always has been) silly that Ninja gets access to heavier armor than Dragoon.

Really, SE just need to either add DRG or (much more unlikely at this point) subtract NIN from Haubergeon models at this point.

And yes, RDM should most definitely be on this hypothetical neo-Harness people are talking about.

[Ophannus]

RDM would probably be put on the mage body like they were for Orvail, Hagondes and Nares.

[Demonjustin]

RDM would probably be put on the mage body like they were for Orvail, Hagondes and Nares.I wouldn't be so sure, we got great melee gear last update, and now, this update as well, including our first(and now second) ever pair of 6% Haste Legs(sad we just hit that milestone...) and a few 7% Haste Heads with even an 8% Haste Head. If a Scorpion Harness upgrade comes in the future, I am fairly confident we will be on it actually just because they seem to be staying true to the jobs on the old iterations, its hope at least.

[Malphius]

I'm gonna go ahead and link to the item update where DRG got squat. What a joke. http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/January_2014_Version_Update_Changes

[Demonjustin]

Legs are cool, not sure the STP will be worth losing out on the 4 Double Attack possible with Cizin, but, they are a new STP piece where there weren't all to great of options before. In general though I agree, DRG got screwed this time around, perhaps when they implement Shadow Lord and some other ones DRG can be included in some cool stuff.

[Ophannus]

Wyverns are hitting 50-60% harder now so that's better than any single piece of gear we would ever get unless it's like a Thaumas Breastplate.