Producer Matsui, you have significantly improved the new player experience.

[OKOA]

Salutations,

I am currently a part-time blogger, full-time EVE Online player, and a former FFXI player…or at least I was until 7pm CST last night. This weekend I happened to catch a post on reddit about all of the changes that have happened in the game since I last played. For the record, I purchased the Adoulin expansion last March, but was completely put off by how poorly done it was.

Let me start by saying why I feel qualified to post on this matter. One year ago I had been paying four FFXI subscriptions for over a year. I would have called myself one of the biggest fans this game ever had, but I recognize how serious the contention is for that title. And yes, that means I bought four copies of Adoulin at full price. And yes, it also means Square-Enix lost four subscribers on the day I quit.

For that past year I had been heavily involved in the business of creating and testing some of the more creative “extensions” available for your fine product. Unfortunately, I had grown tired of a game that I felt all but forced me to engage in that kind of behavior to win. Let me be clear. Some people by some stroke of good luck which I can’t possibly understand are gifted both with voluminous play time as well as a great group of friends to play with. I was not one of them.

The Lulls

Two years ago I had those friends, and we stayed up late every night chatting on Xbox Live and playing this great game together. It was like a little slice of gaming heaven. But then they all quit, and there I was. So I turned to utilizing what tools I had available to continue playing the game the way I wanted to, albeit in absence of the camaraderie I had grown accustomed to.

This meant dual-boxing, and eventually quad-boxing.

I want to say that I am not proud of any of the things I just mentioned. Like many of your players, I have come to expect some very specific things from the games your company produces. First and foremost, those games should be a platform upon which we are given the opportunity to be exemplary, and if we demonstrate great heroism along with carefully plotted strategy, we can seize that opportunity to become great. I left your game because I gradually sensed that I was no longer heroic.

What I had to do to be great was not great. I was not a hero.

I started EVE Online because I sensed that such a platform existed there. My morality would be tested, my bravery challenged, and ultimately there existed real opportunity to be a hero. I challenged myself by playing the game with one-and-only-one account along with one-and-only-one character. I hope no one at your company really thinks having players pay for multiple accounts is a good business strategy. Take it from my experiences: it makes for a bad gaming experience, and that is the worst business strategy of all.

Good Games = Good Money

The current direction with the Trust system convinces me however that you do understand these two facts. I see new and exciting ways to be heroic emerging. I see that you have taken the player experience seriously by offering new avenues by which to be productive. Most of all, I see that you are encouraging progress rather than stanching it for some unknown fear.

Part of what has stalled FFXI all these years is the seemingly unrelenting assault on the possibility of the player to “break the game.” In one regard the past development team succeeded, by making sure no one crossed that invisible line. This however should be considered an utter failure, and the Trust system is the perfect evidence of that. Because it is brutally overpowered in some people’s eyes. Because it no longer reinforces a ridiculous standard of “throw people at it” to solve a problem. Because it is the way I have wanted to play for so long and haven’t been able to.

By the former dev team’s standards it is broken. By Final Fantasy standards historically, it has the capacity to bring FFXI into the fold as one of its own.

The Strength of the Franchise

FFXI is and always will be a franchise game. If you are willing to learn from past failures, you will see that in almost every case throughout the franchise’s history that ignored the power of the brand failed. The systems that deviated from this time-tested formula fell flat and the ones that played to the franchise’s strengths succeeded overwhelmingly. Now is not the time to ignore this important lesson. Now is the time to seize this momentum; do not turn away from success in favor of failure.

Dissidia is a game that successfully “borrowed from the brand” by making Shantotto a playable character. Yes, another Square-Enix game beat FFXI to making her “playable.” But commanding her in all of her malevolent glory falling rank and file with my npc hit-squad assures me that someone somewhere near the top may have finally learned this lesson about the power of the brand.

The Trust system seems to have already borrowed the things players liked best about classic systems such as the NPC AI in Kingdom Hearts and the Gambits system of FFXII. I implore you to heed this swell of player excitement, and I say to you “Please, whatever you do, don’t stop there.”

For my part, I downloaded the trial and tried both the Trust system along with the new Records of Eminence and I have to say that I am blown away by not only the creativity, but also the smoothness of the implementation of each. The forces that first drove me down the path of multi-boxing were ultimately also just the seeds that grew into a vile indifference for this game.

This concept of Trust, however unrefined presently, is a beacon of hope that suggests to me you understand the importance of being a force of influence in this universe.

Take that momentum behind Trust and Records of Eminence and power FULL STEAM AHEAD. Flesh those systems out into what they truly can and should be. Add the ability to customize the logic and behavior of summoned Trust companions by rearranging “runes” (MMM) or some other bauble. Make ROE the central hub of questing…it is a powerful behavioral motivator made even more salient by the fact that it synergizes so well with existing happens. That is what needs to happen to take this game to the next level: cross functionality.

On Being Strong

In what feels practically like another life, I hit 75 before Abyssea was a twinkle in anyone’s eye. I stayed with the game all the way to 99, and I hit that many many times over with any job I deigned to play. Slowly though, I found things I couldn’t do by myself, and so I started adding more and more accounts. At first it was just one, but unfortunately that still wasn’t enough to feel powerful.

If you asked me a week ago, I’d probably have said that FFXI is a game where no matter what you do, you have only one means of overpowering your enemies, and that is to throw more bodies at them. Now I realize this is somewhat factitious, as the likes of a player like Sylow prove that many obstacles can be overcome with patience, planning, player skill, and plurality (i.e. friends). There’s that plurality again though, and so how does a player address that, assuming he/she can’t make friends?

They quit. The answer is that they quit. They might try some things in the interim—like I did—but ultimately they will come to accept that they are weak in a universe they escape to in order to feel strong. I will take the Trust system as a sign of good faith that you understand this and are working on it.

Additionally, the login campaigns solve some of the frustration of not being able to accomplish certain tasks. The question is what is ultimately heroic about just logging in? This is a bandaid at best, but the core issue still needs to be addressed. What do people really want to get out of playing this game?

I hope there are longer term solutions in the hopper.

On Growing Up

I have owned a copy of this game since the day it came out. Like many people here I have fallen in and out of love with it dozens of times. The max consecutive months I have ever subscribed is for a two year period. The truth is that I spent a whole lot more money on this game maintaining a single account than the few times I multi-boxed heavily and burnt out rather quickly.

I’ve played a lot of characters. I’ve experienced a lot of things. Still though, I sense somehow that there is more yet. This game has the potential to see a new dawn. I hope this new dev team will take this short term success and turn it into a big win for the franchise.

With that said, I just wanted to say thank you to the hard-working people who made these improvements possible. I hope it is not a discredit to their achievements to expect even more from them in the next three months. There is still hard work to be done, but at least the long term fans of this game are seeing green shoots for the first time in a long while.

Please keep up the good work.

[Anjou]

One word to reply to this:


Indeed.

[Feary]

great mother of god.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[OKOA]

One word to reply to this:


Indeed.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and respond.

[Vasch]

I agree. Things in Vana'Diel are definitely looking brighter every day.

[Direct]

Been a blogger is not something one brags off.

[OKOA]

Been a blogger is not something one brags off.

Thank you, I will keep your feelings on the matter in mind for next time I post.

[SilentSteel]

Definitely enjoyed the post, it sums up how I feel with the changes they've made with including Trust and RoE. I know some people feel very turned off by it, but I think they've added a lot.

[OKOA]

Definitely enjoyed the post, it sums up how I feel with the changes they've made with including Trust and RoE. I know some people feel very turned off by it, but I think they've added a lot.

Thanks for taking the time to read.

It is an exciting time for new players, with so much accessible to them through these new systems. As I have not had enough opportunity to level, I can't say much for how well Trust will work in the later stages of the game. I fully expect though that the systems can and will be expanded to further play areas, and that should help quite a bit in terms of getting things done.

It is refreshing though to see an attempt at "bridging the gap" between old and new players with the eminence weapons and armor. That was always the part where I ended up falling through the cracks when I tried to rejoin the game.

So far I was able to use my same level progression I had 4-boxed on:

Gustaberg pages: 15.

Dangruf Wadi Leech/Hare page: 23.

Korroloka Tunnel Bat/Worm page: 33.

Korroloka Tunnel Thread Leech page: 43. (you keep exp bonus if you don't zone) *I'm here so far.

Upper Delkfutt's Tower Gigas page: 50.

Crawler's Nest Crawler/Bee page: 58.


By my observations having 3 Trust npcs along for the ride below level 50 (assuming you are fighting DC or below) is about the equivalent speed to having a good 3-box setup. I'm looking forward to throwing a fellow into the mix as well.

The reduction in overhead is priceless though. Not having to flip around and manage 3 things at once is a god-send. There is also the factor of getting to collect and use some of your favorite NPCs. At this stage of the game it is a really fun system.

Ignoring some obvious deficiencies in AI, it is a lot more fun and you will learn a lot more about the mechanics of party play than the repugnant system of GoV alliances it replaces.

[Vivivivi]

The game is incredibly huge, a few other smart things that have even done recently (whether intentional or not):

Placement of AA, RoE, monstrosity, and trust npcs I the starting cities increases the random chances of seeing a new player with a ? Over their head, which I seem to be seeing more of lately.

[OKOA]

The game is incredibly huge, a few other smart things that have even done recently (whether intentional or not):

Placement of AA, RoE, monstrosity, and trust npcs I the starting cities increases the random chances of seeing a new player with a ? Over their head, which I seem to be seeing more of lately.

It would be really nice if they could find more ways to retain the new players they are hauling in lately.

One thing I did not realize when I first posted this thread is that a temporary bonus was in place to EXP among other things.

Having since gone back to bring my support job up to the same level as my main job, I can't say that I found the rate of leveling that much slower due to the fact that GoV and RoE are my two main sources of exp. It sort of begs the question though why they would even be apprehensive about making those numbers a permanent change and continuing to run 50% weekend campaigns or something like that.

Either way, the new Trust system and the RoE combined with repeating GoV pages and the ability to get exp multiple times each game day are all pretty groundbreaking in terms of making the leveling experience more palatable.

The eminence weapons and armor sets are also a good guarantee that I will be able to cheaply gear up to tackle most of the storyline solo.

I see plenty of cracks in the foundation already, but I have to say that progress is being made.

I guess I will report in once I beat Maat.

[Karah]

It sort of begs the question though why they would even be apprehensive about making those numbers a permanent change and continuing to run 50% weekend campaigns or something like that.



You've got to realize that exp is literally about 30x (not 30%, 30 TIMES) faster to get now.

Way back when, you would get 5, not 50, not 500, FIVE exp for killing something that took more than a minute to kill, because "easy prey" WAS NOT EASY.

Depending on your job, an EP mob could destroy your face, FoV GoV RoE trust none of this existed. The only thing we had was an exp ring...

So while they make it easier, and easier and eeaassiieerr and eeeeeeaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeerrrrrr at what point do they stop giving the "free" exp.

[Anjou]

You've got to realize that exp is literally about 30x (not 30%, 30 TIMES) faster to get now.

Way back when, you would get 5, not 50, not 500, FIVE exp for killing something that took more than a minute to kill, because "easy prey" WAS NOT EASY.

Depending on your job, an EP mob could destroy your face, FoV GoV RoE trust none of this existed. The only thing we had was an exp ring...

So while they make it easier, and easier and eeaassiieerr and eeeeeeaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeerrrrrr at what point do they stop giving the "free" exp.

I see Karah is on the warpath today. One moment let me just sift through your comment.

Back then, it was roughly 40-50 EXP per mob, not 5 which is a huge overstatement.

Depending on the job yes, but most people stuck to parties to fight larger mobs, solo'ing was a stupid idea bar BST.

They don't give out free exp Karah, otherwise we'd be seeing way more complaints on this forum about it. Yes it's easier to lvl up, but this is rate now isn't too low, isn't too high, in fact when we try the baby bear route, we find out this EXP soup is "Just right"

[Karah]

No, clearly you haven't been around that long, you could obtain single digit exp.

50 was basically the MAX you could get soloing (unless bst or smn).

They dont give out free exp eh, what do you call Records of Eminence objective; "heal without magic". You can accidentally obtain exp by resting.... come on now.

[Anjou]

No, clearly you haven't been around that long, you could obtain single digit exp.

50 was basically the MAX you could get soloing (unless bst or smn).

They dont give out free exp eh, what do you call Records of Eminence objective; "heal without magic". You can accidentally obtain exp by resting.... come on now.

That's for a new player Karah, something that you apparently associate everybody with nowadays by calling them gimps and noobs.

Since you obviously can't talk to anyone positively, I'll be the one to say it: No one likes you, you need to shut up and just leave, because you do not help ANYONE by acting the way you do.

Now if you want to keep talking, I can pretty much counter w/e the hell you're gonna throw at me, because I got about 5 and a half hours to sit around and do nothing.

[Karah]

I mean that's cool for you, I already made all the points, everything you say is completely irrelevant, just like justin.

There isn't anyone in all of ffxi that doesn't know Karah is a prick, it's common knowledge, repeating it ad-nausium is just redundant.

[Spiderturk]

Fantastic post really sums up the current state of ffxi and he it's growing, but no matter what people will stick with playing through the thick and thin with it all. Trust and RoE have been the best thing since adoulin started gives a lift to those who like leveling as exp party have taken a large decline due to the numbers.
But to say again great post
(Good job!) :)

[OKOA]

You've got to realize that exp is literally about 30x (not 30%, 30 TIMES) faster to get now.

Way back when, you would get 5, not 50, not 500, FIVE exp for killing something that took more than a minute to kill, because "easy prey" WAS NOT EASY.

Depending on your job, an EP mob could destroy your face, FoV GoV RoE trust none of this existed. The only thing we had was an exp ring...

So while they make it easier, and easier and eeaassiieerr and eeeeeeaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeerrrrrr at what point do they stop giving the "free" exp.

I appreciate your comments and enthusiasm, but I'd like to make one thing clear.

The first time I bought this game (the day it came out) I leveled MNK to level 18 with no subjob solo. Now I realize that back then not any job could do that, and monk was probably one of the best jobs to do it with, but I just want to be clear that it is a dubious claim at best by veteran players that you couldn't solo.

You certainly couldn't solo to level 50 without a subjob--which you can now--but there were solo opportunities for the motivated player.

I am really looking at things from a post-abyssea perspective however, and that is to say a world that exists many years after the fact you could just pay some random person a few thousand chocobo blinkers worth of gil, go afk, and come back 16 or so hours later to a brand new level 99.

That is the new exp reward paradigm the game is in and has been in for years. So it is pretty ludicrous to think that offering 120 exp versus 60 would somehow be game-breaking.

It is however hilarious to see that people would actually argue that it is defensible for them to do it, but would be criminal for a new player. The "us versus them" mentality has always been the worst "feature" of this MMO.

[OKOA]

Fantastic post really sums up the current state of ffxi and he it's growing, but no matter what people will stick with playing through the thick and thin with it all. Trust and RoE have been the best thing since adoulin started gives a lift to those who like leveling as exp party have taken a large decline due to the numbers.
But to say again great post
(Good job!) :)

Thank you for the words of encouragement. Much appreciated.

[Karah]

There's just so many advantages people have now to gain exp, yes you can solo and do it the hard way. That's always been an option. And I also realize that exp parties are all but literally completely gone.

I would totally go for something conditional; IE "while soloing" or "does not apply to limit points" or "if your account is new" etc, but just a broad stroke of EVERYTHING NEEDS TO GIVE 2x EXP THIS IS TOO SLOW WHINEWHINE is ludicrous.

You shouldn't be able to just log in, play blindfolded and hit level 99, that's exactly what breeds situations like we have now, where players can't even grasp simple concepts. And skipping game content that should've been required to be beaten, as with this CoP whining about reforging gear.

[OKOA]

There's just so many advantages people have now to gain exp, yes you can solo and do it the hard way. That's always been an option. And I also realize that exp parties are all but literally completely gone.

I would totally go for something conditional; IE "while soloing" or "does not apply to limit points" or "if your account is new" etc, but just a broad stroke of EVERYTHING NEEDS TO GIVE 2x EXP THIS IS TOO SLOW WHINEWHINE is ludicrous.

You shouldn't be able to just log in, play blindfolded and hit level 99, that's exactly what breeds situations like we have now, where players can't even grasp simple concepts. And skipping game content that should've been required to be beaten, as with this CoP whining about reforging gear.

Ok I actually agree with that to some degree.

I like your conditional idea, for one. For instance, they could do a "hotspots" system, to try to encourage leveling in specific regions...or encourage group play.

I too find complaints about "having" to do missions a bit peculiar being that it has always been one of the core motivations for playing a Square-Enix MMO versus any other ones.

I also see the reasoning that if you gut the exp grind out of the game, AND the missions, AND then you just hand out the gear ... what is really left?

But none of those were actually my point, and I certainly think there is a nicer way of saying those things.

Also, the Trust system is qualitatively good even outside of the ability to make things easier. It reclaims a desirable mechanic from bygone Final Fantasys.

Finally, the point I was really trying to make is they already DID gut the exp mechanic effectively. The saying goes "there's no use crying over spilt milk." Well, Abyssea already spilled the milk, so it seems a little bizarre to cling to the idea that Abyssea-like exp shouldn't be obtainable anywhere else under any circumstances.

If anything, that is the whine in this thread.

[Spiderturk]

Only I problem I can really see from exping you can gain is that it lacks the challenge. Anyone can go start a lvl 1 job have trust,FoV/GoV,exp ring and RoE you will fly through levels pretty quickly where is the challenge there?
It does need balance and maybe a system as you both have said to start with just to give it some edge.
Know one can complain that it's to easy as it's just as easy to sit on afk hill in a worm party an death the levels rack up inca again no challenge to anyone to do that.
The update is really fun and interesting and gives you a brand new way of experiencing ffxi from 1-99 but it needs something to give it that challenge (exp)!!! What that is I don't know ( my brain capacity isn't that big to think of an idea lol)

[Olor]

I too find complaints about "having" to do missions a bit peculiar being that it has always been one of the core motivations for playing a Square-Enix MMO versus any other ones.

I also see the reasoning that if you gut the exp grind out of the game, AND the missions, AND then you just hand out the gear ... what is really left?



I dunno, I've been spending my game time lately leveling thf, and even with trust/ROE AND someone power leveling me a bit in abyssea, I am still only level 68 after a couple weeks. I don't have a lot of time, so I am not finding lack of things to do.

I play this game because I like the job system/combat and the general feel of the world. I don't mind doing battlefields and stuff but I don't like quests/missions very much, mostly because they just involve a lot of running around trying to find a random NPC - not really doing anything.

That said, I've been working on sea and sky and various quests around the world WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT. Doing it that way, it's enjoyable. But I strongly dislike modern content being roadblocked with ancient questlines. It's arbitrary, unnecessary and only serves to make it harder to attract/keep new players to the game. It doesn't hurt anything to leave those quests/missions optional (except to get their specific rewards) - it doesn't take away from the good memories people have, it doesn't remove the content - but it also doesn't stop people from playing with their friends.

People don't like (say) having to get to sea to get access to reforged AF1. Why? Because they were busy playing with friends doing modern content - yet, instead of being able to continue PLAYING WITH FRIENDS, they are forced to go solo 3 days worth of cut scenes?!?

I only get to play 5-10 hours a week, I don't want to spend it doing 9 year old content that is no longer relevant by myself. I'm definitely not asking for anything to be sent to me for free - I am just asking for SE to stop trying to force the playerbase to complete storylines that are no longer relevant. People play games for different reasons. I personally don't play them to run between NPCs by myself.

[Xantavia]

Having since gone back to bring my support job up to the same level as my main job, I can't say that I found the rate of leveling that much slower due to the fact that GoV and RoE are my two main sources of exp. It sort of begs the question though why they would even be apprehensive about making those numbers a permanent change and continuing to run 50% weekend campaigns or something like that.
I've found that with RoE rewards, it goes pretty fast as is without relying on GoV pages. (And if you look, FoV zones give more for kills than GoV zones). That 5-600 extra per 10 kills seems to make up for not killing certain mobs only. Sure, I'll tag a page, but I no longer feel that a kill is wasted if it doesn't count towards page completion. And it can stretch the life of a zone out longer, when you are just about to level but more mobs are popping as too weak. You can kill them and get some credit to the zone bonuses.

I just can't wait for the expanded areas they say are coming. 88 GEO now and I've resorted to getting crystal bonuses in C. Mire for now. I burned myself out of high level GoV zones like 4 jobs ago.

[OKOA]

I dunno, I've been spending my game time lately leveling thf, and even with trust/ROE AND someone power leveling me a bit in abyssea, I am still only level 68 after a couple weeks. I don't have a lot of time, so I am not finding lack of things to do.

I play this game because I like the job system/combat and the general feel of the world. I don't mind doing battlefields and stuff but I don't like quests/missions very much, mostly because they just involve a lot of running around trying to find a random NPC - not really doing anything.

That said, I've been working on sea and sky and various quests around the world WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT. Doing it that way, it's enjoyable. But I strongly dislike modern content being roadblocked with ancient questlines. It's arbitrary, unnecessary and only serves to make it harder to attract/keep new players to the game. It doesn't hurt anything to leave those quests/missions optional (except to get their specific rewards) - it doesn't take away from the good memories people have, it doesn't remove the content - but it also doesn't stop people from playing with their friends.

People don't like (say) having to get to sea to get access to reforged AF1. Why? Because they were busy playing with friends doing modern content - yet, instead of being able to continue PLAYING WITH FRIENDS, they are forced to go solo 3 days worth of cut scenes?!?

I only get to play 5-10 hours a week, I don't want to spend it doing 9 year old content that is no longer relevant by myself. I'm definitely not asking for anything to be sent to me for free - I am just asking for SE to stop trying to force the playerbase to complete storylines that are no longer relevant. People play games for different reasons. I personally don't play them to run between NPCs by myself.

Thank you for your reply.

I actually agree that it is nice to have storyline content that is fully optional. WoTG is probably a great example of that, and the 3 mini-expansions. It seems like recently they kind of went for an even mix of required elements and skippable ones.

My view on the storylines though is that as long as the fights are easily soloable, making missions required content is not necessarily the worst thing.

If the new homepoint warp system allows them to be completed with a reasonable travel time, all the better.

One of my main motivations for playing however IS to finish to CoP storyline though, so I'm quite biased.

[OKOA]

I've found that with RoE rewards, it goes pretty fast as is without relying on GoV pages. (And if you look, FoV zones give more for kills than GoV zones). That 5-600 extra per 10 kills seems to make up for not killing certain mobs only. Sure, I'll tag a page, but I no longer feel that a kill is wasted if it doesn't count towards page completion. And it can stretch the life of a zone out longer, when you are just about to level but more mobs are popping as too weak. You can kill them and get some credit to the zone bonuses.

I just can't wait for the expanded areas they say are coming. 88 GEO now and I've resorted to getting crystal bonuses in C. Mire for now. I burned myself out of high level GoV zones like 4 jobs ago.

Thank you for this post, and for the GREAT idea.

I too have pretty much been through all the GoV grinds I care to. With the FoV pages added to ToAU zones and the new crystal spoils RoE initiatives, it would be agood time for me to branch out and see some new places without feeling like I'm missing out on exp.

I will have to experiment and report back in, thanks.

[OKOA]

I decided to report back in and update my progress, along with a few observations.





Gustaberg pages: 15.

Dangruf Wadi Leech/Hare page: 23.

Korroloka Tunnel Bat/Worm page: 33.

Korroloka Tunnel Thread Leech page: 43. (you keep exp bonus if you don't zone) *I was here last post.



Since that post, I have progressed as follows:

Upper Delkfutt's Tower Gigas page: 49.

Crawler's Nest Crawler/Bee page: 50 99/100ths.

At some point I went back and soloed my support job, and leveled RDM to 44. I then purchased every critical spell for RDM and WHM up to that point which I could afford.

Contrast this with a few times I have returned to the game and the usual solution is to zone into Gusgen and just have a high level drop a magicked skull into the treasure box. It's lame, and unheroic. So it felt good to get it all done by myself.

Last time I played, they added the ??? points so that "In Defiant Challenge" could be completed solo. It was a nice touch, but still kind of lame.

This next part I am especially proud of. For the first time ever, I completed "In Defiant Challenge" BY MYSELF, by killing the requisite monsters using my team of trust NPCs.

There is no real way for me to describe the satisfaction of doing so, other than to say that the Lich I battled was one of the most exhilarating fights I have ever had in the game. Thank goodness it dropped the parchment, because it took everything I had + my 2hr to get through it.

Crawler's Nest Crawler/Bee page: 55 99/100ths.

"Atop the Highest Mountains" is actually the first time I grouped. I treked out to Xarcabard and put out a shout. A JP who spoke no English (but I'm assuming knew that as a level 55 in zone shouting I needed help on the level cap) actually grouped up with me and killed the NMs.

My understanding was that this was changed to just allow you to grab the Frigicites and run off. I'm assuming the intention is that you just grab the key item and suicide?

I don't know because I didn't try. If that were the case, that is horribly designed. Point blank, this quest is bad and needs to be adjusted. It would still take more than 1 full group of 55 capped players to beat all 3 of these NMs.

Based on my experience with "In Defiant Challenge," a smart move would just be toning these fights down to the point that a player and 3 trusts make for a VERY TOUGH fight, but a doable one.

Crawler's Nest Crawler/Bee page: 57

Crawler's Nest Exoray/Fly page: 60 99/100ths.

I've never had any issue with the next limit break, so I don't anticipate any obstacles other than the time required to get to rank 5 in my home nation and then run through the quests. I'm not certain, but if there are home points that will save me some time, this may have gotten even easier.

I started my account on Sunday night of last week. It took me exactly 1 week to get to the point above, 36 hours exactly of played time.

That's about 4 hours a day, with a little extra on the weekends. That's pretty high for me as pretty much a life-long casual gamer.

This amount of progress feels right to me, personally.

I think a definite improvement would be adjusting the battles in the second limit break so that it was a fun and exciting quest, not just an inane chore.

I think an acceptable difficulty level would be on par with soloing an Explosure or Exoray or Lich at job level 50 with Trust NPCs out.

Let me make one final suggestion.

In my opinion, the RoE system can be used to improve and expand on a lot of the weak points the game has right now.

One thing in particular could be an RoE popup coming up every time your level caps, and directing you to see Maat.

That way new players would know exactly where to go and what to do.

But in particular I believe the RoE system offers the opportunity to "do old things in new ways." That is to say, you already have 2 ways to do "In Defiant Challenge," which is great.

I don't think either one is particularly good though, in the context of attracting new first time players.

At the end of the day though, you still turn the same 3 items in to Maat, and it doesn't really matter where you get them. And RoE can be programmed to drop any item, right?

Logically, this gives Square-Enix a third avenue to go down.

Think about things that were truly fun in previous Final Fantasy games...

I for one thought of going through the battle arena in FFVII and having to consecutively win fights in progressive difficulty.

Something like that could replace the existing "In Defiant Challenge" by allowing the player to accept an RoE objective, be warped off to a burning circle by Maat (just like the 95 limit break), and then have to fight through consecutive arenas with their trust NPCs to fulfill the RoE objectives and claim the 3 quest items. You could always have the option of getting them the old fashioned way.

So why bother doing all of this?

Number one, it's low hanging fruit. Number two, it could open doors to do more of this stuff for end-gamers.

And also for the same reason I stated above. The older quests come across as more of a stale chore nowadays than anything else. They were also tailored for larger teams, and they are pretty brittle in that regard. Most people just have a high level completely eradicate any challenge.

Frankly, the logic for changing things up is because it would make the game more palatable for new players.

I think it's great that everybody here did these quests and didn't rage quit. That doesn't make them good quests, or fun quests for that matter. And it also doesn't guarantee that the next guy will have patience for them. The "next guy" is the one whose $13 keeps the lights on and the servers running.

FFXI has always been the "Taco Bell" of MMOs, just taking the existing ingredients and re-combining them ad nauseum. Well, RoE is a great opportunity to reinvent some of the existing quests by putting a new spin on them.

Anyways, that's just my 2 cents.

[Stompa]

I like the new Home-point nexus system a lot. I also really love being able to wear my AF1 sets again, without them being totally gimp. I've had my AF1 sets in storage for over nine years, I would sometimes wear it for farming EP mobs, just because I love the appearance of AF1. Its great that those sets now have some powerful stats and are useful in real battles. And the ROE system is okay, in the sense it enables you to obtain stuff on solo, on a casual time-frame.


Huge applause & credit to SE for those three things.
:)

[OKOA]

I like the new Home-point nexus system a lot. I also really love being able to wear my AF1 sets again, without them being totally gimp. I've had my AF1 sets in storage for over nine years, I would sometimes wear it for farming EP mobs, just because I love the appearance of AF1. Its great that those sets now have some powerful stats and are useful in real battles. And the ROE system is okay, in the sense it enables you to obtain stuff on solo, on a casual time-frame.


Huge applause & credit to SE for those three things.
:)

Thank you for leaving the positive feedback here for the team.

That's what this thread is all about!

[Stubbin]

They could merge servers to make things better. I am on Carbuncle, and we have maybe 600-700 people on during NA peak time. I have not played in 7 years, so i am completely lost and am finding it hard to get into a linkshell. Thank god I was at least able to solo to level 28, get my subjob and chocobo, and now I am working on rank in Windurst along with trying to go from broke to get enough money to buy my vendor spells. I have 25k gil at level 28, this isnt enough. I know some can be quested for, and thank god because there is no way I can afford the AH hehe.

Fortunately for me I am NOT looking for the fast way to 99. I want to experience most of what I can from all the expansions, but I am worried that some will require grouping, and grouping at low-mid level does not exist on Carbuncle :(

[OKOA]

They could merge servers to make things better. I am on Carbuncle, and we have maybe 600-700 people on during NA peak time. I have not played in 7 years, so i am completely lost and am finding it hard to get into a linkshell. Thank god I was at least able to solo to level 28, get my subjob and chocobo, and now I am working on rank in Windurst along with trying to go from broke to get enough money to buy my vendor spells. I have 25k gil at level 28, this isnt enough. I know some can be quested for, and thank god because there is no way I can afford the AH hehe.

Fortunately for me I am NOT looking for the fast way to 99. I want to experience most of what I can from all the expansions, but I am worried that some will require grouping, and grouping at low-mid level does not exist on Carbuncle :(

Make sure you are checking one of the various wikis online to see where you can buy spells from NPCs.

They have made most spells NPC buyable for MUCH cheaper than you'd get off of the AH.

Also, see my posts above in reference to a smooth solo path to level ~70 or so.

Using only gil I made from 3 sources ( Valor pages, Missions, Selling Crystals ) I could afford every single one of my spells if I always bought from NPCs.

[Stubbin]

Thanks, where is your post?

[OKOA]

Thanks, where is your post?

I'm going to condense it a bit to make it easier.


|-----------ZONE----------|---Page--|---Fiend 1-|--Fiend 2-|-Level Start--|--Level End|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--N/S Gustaberg----------|----1----|---Bee-----|----------|-----1--------|----14-----|
|--Dangruf Wadi-----------|----3----|---Hare----|--Leech---|-----14-------|----23-----|
|- Korroloka Tunnel-------|----1----|---Bat-----|--Worm----|-----23-------|----33-----|
|--Korroloka Tunnel-------|----4----|---Leech---|----------|-----33-------|----43-----|
|--Upper Delkfutt's Tower-|----1----|---Gigas---|----------|-----43-------|----49-----|
|--Crawler's Nest---------|----1----|---Crawler-|--Bee-----|-----50-------|----57-----|
|--Crawler's Nest---------|----4----|---Exoray--|--Fly-----|-----57-------|----70-----|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not 100% sure on the page numbers because I did not look them up and just went off of memory.

3 trust NPCs can complete that entire progression even if you do not have armor or weapons.

[bungiefanNA]

Thanks, where is your post?

You can click her name to view her post history.

[Blbelt]

I am thinking of returning myself. Currently trying to decide whether to dust off my old duo or start anew with one character as you have. I am in no hurry to get to 99 and have no desire to do endgame content at the moment. The joy for me is exploring, doing quests and missions, and camping NMs to gear up as I level.

Very disappointed to learn that Trust NPCs cannot be used for mission battles. I hope they change this soon.

Also, it seems sparks can only be used to purchase weapons at lower levels. Is this correct or is there armor available as well?

Lastly, I would like to see them ease some of the older reputation grinds. If I start over, I am really not looking forward to trading 100 stacks of millioncorn to the guy in Selbina...

[Demonjustin]

Also, it seems sparks can only be used to purchase weapons at lower levels. Is this correct or is there armor available as well?This is correct, however, gear often drops from chests and chests drop from monsters very often now so its not much of an issue unless you kill things only in caves.

[OKOA]

I am thinking of returning myself. Currently trying to decide whether to dust off my old duo or start anew with one character as you have. I am in no hurry to get to 99 and have no desire to do endgame content at the moment. The joy for me is exploring, doing quests and missions, and camping NMs to gear up as I level.

Very disappointed to learn that Trust NPCs cannot be used for mission battles. I hope they change this soon.

Also, it seems sparks can only be used to purchase weapons at lower levels. Is this correct or is there armor available as well?

Lastly, I would like to see them ease some of the older reputation grinds. If I start over, I am really not looking forward to trading 100 stacks of millioncorn to the guy in Selbina...

Sorry I could not get to your post sooner Blbelt, but thank you for taking the time to write here.

I think now is 100% the best time to return to the game there has ever been. Now, that all depends on what your goals are, but for me, my goals are to experience the story. They have made it significantly easier to do so on several levels.

1) There are systems in place that make it possible to obtain levels and equipment without having to rely on unreasonable measures—I still think the Genkai quests need further revision.

2) Additional level cap increases and powerful gear along with reduced travel times make it much easier to focus on the story & cutscenes, and less on the frustration of losing or needing help to advance the story.

3) Almost 100% of the storyline content can be experienced solo on a wide variety of jobs, assuming the player has spent the time and effort perfecting at least 1 job.

Deciding what to do next…

For pretty much every storyline in the game I was “about half way through.” So I simply decided to start fresh and try to experience the storylines from scratch.

As of a week and a half, and a little over 48 hours of playtime, I am ready to turn in my storyline quest for Rank 5 & the airship pass, and I have completed the requisite limit breaks to power through to 70.

All of this solo, save two small instances where I needed player help.

( One was with the NMs in Xarcabard for LB2, the other was in Castle Oztroja—I had the Yagudo Torch, but another player on the same quest actually lit the fire and opened the door for me )

Here are some miscellanea I am working on or have completed in the same time span:

1) Unlock Kazham, travel there, activate homepoint. – In Progress
2) Unlock Whitegate, travel there, activate homepoint. – In Progress
3) Unlock Abyssea, start generating stones. – Finished
4) Travel to the past, activate campaign & Ops, unlock a [S] homepoint. – Finished
5) Receive a promotion in the Fighting Fourth. – In Progress
6) Farm a testimony. – Not started
7) Beat Maat. – Not started

I plan on completing the entire list above within the next 2 days and under 72 total hours of time played. And I will have done it almost entirely solo.
So as far as whether you want to return or start fresh?

My advice is to look at the list and the allotted time, and ask yourself if you are ok exhausting about 72 hours of play time to get “caught up.” To me, it was a trivial matter—I enjoyed starting from scratch.

At the point of being 75 and unlocking merits, it is a very short jaunt to being able to easily solo the entire game’s storyline. It will just be a question from there of how you want to handle that.

[OKOA]

I think now is 100% the best time to return to the game there has ever been.


One thing I think is worth mentioning is that itemization is pretty much broken at this point below level 78.

There are 3 factors to that:

1) The auction house doesn't have enough supply to keep up with recent new player activity.

2) Store bought goods are not priced in a way that makes them practical versus the gil rewards of FoV/GoV.

3) With the relative strength of the Trust NPCs on Easy Prey mobs and the speed at which they can complete a page, neither 1 or 2 even matter.

4) This means you end up running around in a Chocobo tunic at level 60 if you spend your money on keeping spells current.

5) Not sure this matters either, because hitting level 78 and getting a few thousand cruor puts you in Perle / Aurore / Teal.


I honestly wish I had a better answer to the armor question, and maybe I'm just too jaded.

What Matsui and Co. need to do is come up with a level 60 version of Perle / Aurore / Teal that can be bought with Sparks.

( Since this is the missing link in the Spark reward tier ).

It would take someone at most one afternoon to design (stat-wise), and would help new players get through their limit breaks.

My solution?

I picked WHM for my first job so I didn't even need to bother gearing, and could just kite Maat.

Alternatively, BST can easily beat Maat naked at 70.

Again though, in the spirit of the thread, there's nothing heroic about either of those things.

I find the places where this game really breaks down and becomes un-fun to be where utility and practicality trump autonomy.

i.e. You bought the game because you love Summoners, and so you unlocked the job and raced to level 99, but now no one will invite you. Then you went on a forum and everyone told you "Level BRD or COR if you want invites." So now you have the option of playing a Bard if you want to party, or just quitting, which is most likely what you will do--because the whole reason you bought the game was your love of summoning, not tooting your Faerie Piccolo for the villagefolk.

So that's the one saving grace...that the Trust system and RoE system give you a lot of capability to just play the game your way--assuming you don't care about end-game and are just here for the storyline.

[Blbelt]

Thanks for your replies, OKOA. I've decided to start a new character on Odin! Made it to level 15 last night and will be applying for my chocobo license soon.

While I will surely be bumbling along at a much slower pace, let me know if you ever need a hand with anything. And keep me posted on your adventures -- I enjoy reading these updates.

**Character name is Nozzleton. Having some problems getting a forum account set up for the new character.

[Stubbin]

You can click her name to view her post history.

I did that before I replied, it only shows me the replies to this post.

[OKOA]

Thanks for your replies, OKOA. I've decided to start a new character on Odin! Made it to level 15 last night and will be applying for my chocobo license soon.

While I will surely be bumbling along at a much slower pace, let me know if you ever need a hand with anything. And keep me posted on your adventures -- I enjoy reading these updates.

**Character name is Nozzleton. Having some problems getting a forum account set up for the new character.

That's great news!

Feel free to message me if you need any help with anything.

Also, check out the Friends of All Nations linkshell on Odin. They have a light aquamarine link pearl, and most members are also sackholders. Try to flag someone down from the linkshell and get a pearl. They are a new player friendly shell.

[OKOA]

I did not have as much time to play this weekend as I usually do, but I'll put a quick update here for anyone following along at home.

Real quick, one goal I had independent of other goals I've listed was to unlock all of the Trusts.

1) I missed Zeid (for the time-being), but I purchased Lion through the login campaign.

2) I easily unlocked Tenzen easily with conquest points.

3) It took 1 full night of play to unlock Valaineral…Going into the past, unlocking the maws, signing up for the fighting fourth, doing an Ops, and finally fighting a couple campaign battles.

4) Joachim was another night’s worth of play because it involved getting into an Aby party to get the cruor.

5) I still haven’t unlocked Mihli. I did however finish the quest to travel to Whitegate.

If I get desperate, I will trade copper vouchers for Imperial Standing in order to buy Mihli.

For now though, I liked actually earning the currency the old fashioned way.

I might pop a couple of Emperor band charges and beat up some ToAU mobs the old fashioned way for my 2000 IS if I can find the time before Feb 2nd.

I really liked the way they set acquiring these 4 NPCs up! These rewards seemed really well thought out. They should do a few more Trust acquisition campaigns like this.

On to the Meat & Potatoes

First things first, after I finished Limit Break 3, I did a couple pages then returned and quickly finished Limit Break 4. There are certain things the new homepoint system is really nice for. It should be further expanded.

My level cap was now 70, so I paired up with a couple linkshell mates to go kill some worms and get the cruor I needed to unlock Joachim. The party we created ended up being a big success and I capped out pretty quick. I was also able to get my RDM leveled up quite a bit.

Here’s where things start to get a little sketchy.

The trust system made it easy enough to get a WHM testimony. Of course I spent probably 3 hours farming one up because that’s just my luck.

This entire time I had just assumed I would waltz into WHM Maat naked and it would be that easy. My first fight I literally did not even eat any food and just kind of ran in thinking it would be easy enough to just kite him. It wasn’t.

Clearly I had underestimated the fight, having never done it on a caster before. So, I got an Earth Staff off of the AH which brought be down to 0 gil, and I got the Salted Fish buff from the Field Tome. For the record, there was no armor on the AH either time.

Even though I took half as much damage the second time, it still just wasn’t the right way to do the fight. I used Benediction too early, and I just barely lost.

So I bought a bunch of medication, and went in for a 3rd fight. The 3 fights per testimony is kind of a nice change.

I made it about 2 minutes into this fight with no resistance from Maat at all and a guaranteed win with all the medication I was packing (none of which I used). For some reason though I derped at that moment, and a crit took me down before I could cure myself.

This should be a super easy fight, so I chalked it up to a couple of tactical mistakes on my part.

1) Even though I’ve done well on spell acquisition, I use Kupipi, so I’d never bothered buying the rather expensive Protect and Shell spells. Missing out on the 120 defense from Protect IV is making this fight unnecessarily easy.

2) I decided to complete all of my AF1 solo before trying again. And not because it’s absolutely required, but just because fighting Maat naked is against my core value of playing this game to be a hero.

More on the AF

I’m going to cut this short and just say that these quests are pretty dated and it shows. I doubt much will change here, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say that most new people to this game should be completing their AF before moving on past level 75.

The problem is that there is a power disparity that makes it pretty unenjoyable to do the quests at 70, and completely absurdly easy at 99. Most people will just find a convenient way to skip doing it until 95 or so, but people who pick a job with a hard Maat fight won't have that luxury.

Needless to say, I’m trying to enjoy the challenge, and just finished my 3rd piece.

It does feel good to get this done solo, whereas without the Trust system, there would be no prayer of doing so.

These quests were badly designed, and reflect a bygone era of woefully bad design choices in this game. It is sad that this is still the first impression this game will give new players.

I like that intentionally better design choices are being made in the late game, but I find it incredibly vapid that the "winning strategy" is to just skip ahead to the stuff that wasn't badly designed.

[Olor]

yeah AF... ugh. Even overleveled it can be a pain. I tried for an evening to get started on thf but it requires stealing an item... and I just can't steal it! I spent several hours trying to steal it, no dice. Then I got bored and decided it wasn't worth the pain.

[Xantavia]

I haven't fought Maat on whm (only doing the jobs where this limit break finishes up a storyline) but a few thoughts. Forgive me if you have attempted any of these.
Can you Repose him to buy some time? Make sure you put up blink/stoneskin/aquaveil. Use the stance (solace?) that grants cureskin. I learned while attempting to heal back in the day that regen can be the difference between victory or defeat. Make him come to you after he is active so if you die, you can reraise safely. Don't focus on beating him up but run out the clock by staying alive.

A lot will come down to luck. BLU was the fight I needed to advance to 71. First 3 attempts were pathetic and I lost quickly (don't forget echo drops as a mage), but the 4th go went so easy I can't believe I lost to him earlier. He chose to cast some less effective spells this time, and I also made a whole new macro set-up just for this fight.

[OKOA]

I haven't fought Maat on whm (only doing the jobs where this limit break finishes up a storyline) but a few thoughts. Forgive me if you have attempted any of these.
Can you Repose him to buy some time? Make sure you put up blink/stoneskin/aquaveil. Use the stance (solace?) that grants cureskin. I learned while attempting to heal back in the day that regen can be the difference between victory or defeat. Make him come to you after he is active so if you die, you can reraise safely. Don't focus on beating him up but run out the clock by staying alive.

A lot will come down to luck. BLU was the fight I needed to advance to 71. First 3 attempts were pathetic and I lost quickly (don't forget echo drops as a mage), but the 4th go went so easy I can't believe I lost to him earlier. He chose to cast some less effective spells this time, and I also made a whole new macro set-up just for this fight.

Thank you for following along, and also for trying to help. I really do appreciate that you would take the time to do so.

I too once leveled BLU as my first job, and MAN was that a tough spot to be in. However, the feeling of success must have been great when you finally triumphed.

For some reason I had it in my mind that WHM was a very easy job to break 70 with. Certainly it must be one of the easier ones, but BST is still much easier and can be done completely naked.

As for finishing the AF armor, my play time was severely limited this week, but what little time I did have largely resulted in failure. My bottom line here is that it's just easier to use medicines and skate through maat, then come back to this later. So yeah, I will just end up beating the old man nearly naked I guess.

Unfortunately money is tight and I had forgotten about Repose anyway, but yes, I believe that is the key to what makes this fight such a cake walk.

I will probably spend some time farming gil and maxing out my divine magic before trying again.

A successful Repose would have made my second attempt laughably easy as I just barely lost the fight by a matter of seconds.