Future Plans for Equipment [Archive] - FINAL FANTASY XI Forum

Camate

01-07-2014, 10:46 AM

Greetings,

Below are some comments from Akihiko Matsui in regards to equipment plans for the future.

Matsui here.

Are there any plans to add shields stronger than Ochain and Aegis? How about instruments that surpass Daurdabla and Gjallarhorn? Ranged weapons that are stronger than Yoichinoyumi and Annihilator? And if so, will they have weapon skills?

All of the items in your question possess extremely high stats, so we’d like to make it easier to enjoy playing jobs such as paladin and bard by adding equipment that will fill this gap.

The strong point of Ochain is in its extremely high block rate, but damage reduction wise the Killedar Shield has been set higher. We will be adding an item level 119 shield in the future, so please know that we will be reducing this gap even further.

In regards to instruments, we are currently looking into adding an instrument that will add another song, but I can’t promise a time frame just yet.

Finally, in regards to ranger, as everyone is already aware, the enmity-related stats for Coronach are very high; however, we've tuned content so that it can be completed even without Annihilator if you put Decoy Shot and Camouflage to use. Ranger is a job that we’d like players to pay careful attention to enmity, so we do not have any plans at the moment to introduce equipment or weapon skills that largely reduce enmity.

Speaking in terms of the overall situation, we feel that enmity is lacking for high item level tanks, and as such we would like to look into enmity adjustments as a larger framework.

Matsui here.

I’d like to discuss the fundamental plans for upgrading equipment with item levels, as there are questions and uncertainty in regards to the future.

First, the equipment we are currently planning to make upgradeable is the reward equipment from Rala Waterways, Cirdas Cavern, and Yorcia Weald skirmishes. You’ll be able to perform the final upgrade to item level 119 with the new skirmishes that are to be added.

Besides these items, we do not have any plans to upgrade other equipment with item levels. Also, we’ll be introducing brand-new rewards in the skirmishes to be added after the next round.

If we were to continue adding upgrade items, players would have to keep a large amount of equipment and this is tied to inventory space consumption, so moving forward when we implement higher-tier versions of existing content and make adjustments to content levels we would like to adopt the method of adding new equipment rewards.

Basically we will not be making it so you need to have older equipment to obtain the new equipment, and for the exceptions where you can upgrade and there are requirements to exchange existing equipment, we feel it necessary to make it easier to obtain the original item as well as have a way to recover the items if they were thrown away.

In regards to inventory expansion, just as Yoji Fujito has commented here ( http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/36878-So-uh-how-s-the-storage-situation-progressing?p=472078&viewfull=1#post472078), it is being investigated, but we need to create a new system from scratch and it will take some time.

Tamarsamar

01-07-2014, 11:00 AM

As long as item level is a thing, there can be no guarantee that anything that we're playing with now won't be obliterated (not just obsoleted) by the next version update. This is the main issue I take with the game as it is; this is why, in spite of my overeager excitement to explore the western continent, I have refused to use my money to purchase the Seekers of Adoulin expansion, where this madness all began; and this will certainly be the cause for the playerbase to plummet further if left unchecked.

Who's stopping you guys from creating Item Level 120 items on a lark? 139? 159? 9001? If Vana'diel intends to survive for another 11 years, we need stronger levies against such rampant, spiraling power creep between players and enemies both.

MDenham

01-07-2014, 12:49 PM

Who's stopping you guys from creating Item Level 120 items on a lark? 139? 159? 9001? If Vana'diel intends to survive for another 11 years, we need stronger levies against such rampant, spiraling power creep between players and enemies both.The answer, obviously, is "nobody except themselves", but...

The thing is, the alternatives are either a stagnating cap (the better part of a decade where the cap was 75 and everything was situational; arguably we could be heading back toward that if the iLevel cap stays at 119 for an extended period) or raising the actual level cap (which would probably be directly accompanied by converting all of the iLevel gear to just have the associated level, and pretty much "be damned to all of you who were getting bigger boosts under the old scheme" - that is, this would be a nerf to pretty much every job that isn't at the forefront of any specific category).

Given the options, I prefer the current system - where, for now, it's going to sit at a cap of 119 on iLevel gear, and there's room to keep bumping it up in the future without causing stagnation or gut-punching everyone who's second best or worse in their field.

On the note of "future iLevel increases and inventory": My opinion here would be to have that process progress very slowly - a one-level jump every six to nine months - but have part of it be "let's give you a reason to get AF, relic, and Empyrean gear to iLevel 119/120/121 respectively first, then starting at 122, we introduce a fourth set that gradually subsumes the other three sets into it and gets upgraded as you go along". A finished set of AF4 ("Crystal Armor"?) would probably sit at about iLevel 129, but would very much be the be-all and end-all for job-specific armor... and that'd give a 5-7 year plan for things, introducing various content along the way.

(The "AF4" idea here would start with a quested "-3" set at iLevel 122; pieces could be upgraded through an NPC to Crystal -2 gear [iLevel 123] by trading in the iLevel 119 AF along with materials, to the -1 [iLevel 124] through a second series of quests, NQ [iLevel 125] by trading in iLevel 120 Relic along with (at least partly different) materials, +1 [iLevel 126] through a third series of quests, +2 [iLevel 127] by trading in iLevel 121 Empyrean and more materials, +3 [iLevel 128] through more quests, and finally +4 [iLevel 129] through some other means - possibly a final fight against Atori-Tutori, maybe something else. It's just a rough idea and I'm sure other people would have their own ideas about how to progress job-specific armor to a "this is the last suit you'll ever wear" stage.)

Karah

01-07-2014, 01:16 PM

All I can really add is iLevel is still iRetarded.

Rwolf

01-07-2014, 02:13 PM

TL;DR - FFXI has too much power creep as it is. They need to start adding incomparable weapons/armor/rewards and create content going forward with alternate goals than kill X within X minutes.

In complete agreement with Tamarsamar (+1'd). Matsui and the dev team are playing dangerously with content that is feeding power creep. Each time they release a new set of gear that completely destroys anything before it, some players take it as a good time to just quit instead of continue what they know from experience of Seekers of Adoulin is to be a continued power creep. And my hypothesis based on how they've introduced gear so far. Skirmish 3 gear will likely topple over a good deal of Delve boss gear, some AF pieces that don't have niche uses and some Ark Angel gear. Just to justify getting people to do the new content.

This is bad. A MMO is supposed to be a perpetuating experience yes, but at the same time what makes players feel the need to stay around is the attachment to the investment of things they work for. If a new update every 1-2 months tells you your investments are worthless or temporary, it loses value. Which means the game itself loses value. Why work hard all month to complete a set of gear if you're just going to get a better set that's easier to build next month? While some will still do it, it becomes more and more unattractive to players. Just look at the difference between the server population pre-Seekers of Adoulin compared to now. It's not just FFXIV: ARR or that the game is 11 years old.

In 9 months we went through several sets of gear that were outdated. That is some crazy power creeping. We definitely need new content and I am in no way advocating going back to HNM camping and all the other bottlenecks that still exist on content. Instead of making content with clearly better gear each update, make incomparables.

We need rewards that cannot be easily compared to other gear as better. We need content that is not won the exact same way. They need to go back to the templates that was Assault, Moblin Maze Mongers, and Meeble Burrows. Once there is endgame content that is variable, it will open the amount of imcomparable rewards they can add. Thus releasing the valve on power creep.

Even Monstrosity could be good (good as in there's a good percentage of the population who play it) but there's not enough reward to justify leveling a job from scratch. And by reward, doesn't mean add some set of Monster gear at 120 that beats everything else. Incomparable rewards. Adding sidegrade gear, new accessories like they've already started. Also adding heavy metal plates, alexandrite, riftcinders, colorless souls, umbral marrow, etc that already have a bottleneck. I know the devs will say well we'd have to look into balance. But seriously if anyone is going to solo level a bunch of monsters to 99 and hopefully do some dungeon content they said they'd add. You deserve some of that.

I think it's odd that they are afraid of allowing people to make R/M/E weapons by alternative and longer means, but have no issue adding gear that just tramples all over stuff and is easier to obtain.

Tamarsamar

01-07-2014, 02:17 PM

The thing is, the alternatives are either a stagnating cap (the better part of a decade where the cap was 75 and everything was situational;

Ah yes, the 75 cap. A period of time when--in spite of lacking the myriad of quality of life improvements that we practically take for granted today--the game was at its peak with a variety of things for players to do that were still relevant. Back then as now harder content was rewarded more-handsomely, but not so dramatically that you were expected to have all the best stuff or GTFO (because, well, the content was freaking hard!).

Or am I forgetting anything here?

Sapphires

01-07-2014, 02:30 PM

Draylo

01-07-2014, 03:23 PM

Please don't let skirmish 3 be a snooze fest like the previous one ><

Demonjustin

01-07-2014, 05:07 PM

Agreed, Skirmish for Yorcia was nice but at the same time it was horrible, the fact it went so slowly, made it just so boring. Also, please improve Skirmish by increasing the number of Fragments obtained, you currently need an obscene amount to buy +2 stones and NQ/+1 fall from the sky anyways so no real point in buying those anyways. Getting as few as we do per kill makes it so our only reliable way of getting fragments are from the rifts, and those are only once a run, and with those included, it would be around 25 runs with fully T5 pops for a single V.Stone +2, which is absolutely insane in my opinion.

Sapphires

01-07-2014, 05:55 PM

Please don't let skirmish 3 be a snooze fest like the previous one ><

totally agree, waiting for the next monster 'wave' to spawn had to be the most agonizing boring thing ever. Best cure for insomnia ever

All they really had to do was add some trigger you could hit at the tent that would force the next wave to spawn (and possibly improve the spoils by doing so) and it would have improved the event 10x

Zhronne

01-07-2014, 05:59 PM

You really need to consider doing a 109/119 of the AF2 (relic) or AF3 (empyrean set)
While we don't know what ilevel they will have and if they will come in a single version or an upgradable one, they already said multiple times that new versions of Relic Armor and Empyreal Armor are indeed coming.

I have very little to say about Skirmish sets. Aside from the augments and the PDT aspect, the usefulness of these sets for me is in the fact it's "shared" among multiple jobs, and as such it can be an useful inventory saver.
Sadly, in that regard, it's not as useful as the 3 Delve sets.
For instance mage jobs are split between Gendewitha and Hagondes. Which means for example my SMN cannot use my cure-pot augmented Gendewitha items, and so on.
Or that my RUN and DNC cannot use my PUP/SAM/NIN/MNK's Otronif gear (whereas with Manibozho they could).

At the beginning of SoA it was awesome how much inventory space I managed to get when jumping from old gear to Delve one, in the slots where I could.
Now I'm starting to have an insane amount of specific gear. Skirmish sets, Delve Sets, Delve MB drops, Naakuals 115 drops, 109/119 AFs... and my inventory is crying.
I had to go back using Porter Moogle again which is a nice addition but it's not as comfortable/fast to use as to take gear out directly from one of your main inventory repositories...

Demonjustin

01-07-2014, 06:08 PM

Karah

01-07-2014, 07:58 PM

Another important thing to note about this is the fact we are very likely going to have our augments reset again, which is going to send anger through the roof with this gear, after all, many people have thrown a ton of stones at gear for the augments they wanted, and now this is going to come along, outdate their gear with a copy but better, and make them experience the same pain all over again.

You should've known better, obviously. If you didn't have the money to throw away, shouldn't have bothered. You knew perfectly well that it was likely coming, after seeing the weapons.

Ravenmore

01-07-2014, 08:17 PM

Ah yes, the 75 cap. A period of time when--in spite of lacking the myriad of quality of life improvements that we practically take for granted today--the game was at its peak with a variety of things for players to do that were still relevant. Back then as now harder content was rewarded more-handsomely, but not so dramatically that you were expected to have all the best stuff or GTFO (because, well, the content was freaking hard!).

Or am I forgetting anything here?

So sitting at a HNM camp for hours on end just hoping you beat the other LSs that might or might not have bots and if it happen to spawn in JP prime good luck. Oh and then killing Kirin for the 1000th time hoping it's your turn for W.legs. None of the old content at 75 cap was hard just a giant time sink of extremely low drop rates. Frankly yes to get into a HNMls that did ground on a DD you were expected to have the best of the best gear to even be considered not cause it was hard just cause so many people wanted it. Sky was just that easy that getting into a sky LS AH gear was more then enough, sea finding your way was the hardest thing, limbus what a joke that was, the really good players were 6 manning Omega with 18 people with half a brain it was a cake walk. Dyna staying awake was the hardest. Ein was about the hardest event around to bad it relied to heavy on pure luck on which mobs you got, roll drk elements and the Chairmen you were in for a time and drops from the none Odin chambers were crap. There just wasn't enough incentive to get the masses to do it.

On top of it all no one did any endgame content out side of nyzul isle and assaults with shout groups. So if you didn't have a LS you didn't do much endgame and spent your time in game waiting for a merit party to kill little pink birds or if your were in a LS spent it waiting on people to gather for a event that you had long since become sick of and only showed cause it was close to your turn to get something or you didn't want to give up your point lead. I don't really care for delve or skirmish now that I'm sick of it just like I was sick of dyna, limbus, NI, or sea at 75 and meriting was so slam head on desk mind numbing, I maxed merits on one job and stopped leveling others.

Return1

01-07-2014, 09:08 PM

Most old 75 content was harder than anything that's come out from SoA. We really gonna compare Skirmish to Byakko? Delve to Dynamis Lord? That's pretty much all SoA has to offer is those two events and WKR, and there's only one really bad WKR and that's only because it spams doom and you can't 100% doom removal.

Sure 75 content was easy once you know what to do, but at least it wasn't instant win button like Delve once you know what the NMs gimmick is / throw enough beads at it, or a literal snooze fest like Skirmish2 that spit out some of the best gear in the game provided someone in your group could stay awake long enough to use a key.

Also, at 75 we had far more relevant content. Sky, Sea, Limbus, Dynamis, HNM, Einherjar, Assault, Nyzul, ZNM, MMM, BCNMs, and KSNMs. What's more, while there was a best option, obviously, there were a lot of side grades so you didn't have to do events that were not your cup of tea if you didn't want to for the most part. Believe it or not you could make a strong Tank/DD/Mage without a single Ground King drop, which is what everyone complains about first and foremost about 75cap, the event with the least amount of drops and the most grind.

The old system was so successful that the game lasted as long as it did, and has quite frankly dropped off with a lot since the level cap increase altered how the game was played. SoA put the game on life support with the stupidity of the iLVL system and rampant outclassing of old gear. That's why they've self-imposed the 119 cap and are working to add more battles that are relevant. And look, players online are slowly creeping back up. If they were smart they'd leave the cap at 119 for good and work on re-updating Sky, Sea, and Limbus once they finish the HM battles from ZM and PM.

Also, Relic and Empyrean armors 119 need to be a priority. Upgrading JSE will add more life than monotonous-everyone-wears-the-same Skirmish armor. It also adds more stuff for players to do. Make Empyrean 119 and you have to go back and get all your empyrean gear if you haven't, then upgrade it, and you need to do that for any job you want to be relevant. 20 sets of relevant gear vs 4 sets of relevant gear. They need to realize having more gear relevant = more stuff to do, which is what everyone wants whether they know it or not.

MDenham

01-07-2014, 09:37 PM

Ah yes, the 75 cap. A period of time when--in spite of lacking the myriad of quality of life improvements that we practically take for granted today--the game was at its peak with a variety of things for players to do that were still relevant. Back then as now harder content was rewarded more-handsomely, but not so dramatically that you were expected to have all the best stuff or GTFO (because, well, the content was freaking hard!).

Or am I forgetting anything here?That there's a difference between "relevant content" and "fun content"?

I dunno. I've outlasted a lot of the people I knew in this game because I've got different standards of what I find fun. Exploring East Altepa on my WHM25 way back in the day at one end of the spectrum. Soloing - well, me plus three Trust NPCs, but at least I know that if I die it's because I did something stupid - the second-tier Jailers, or soloing Abyssea zone bosses, again on WHM as a more recent example. Trying to do things that would be considered ridiculous otherwise, just for the sake of seeing if it can be done now when I know it couldn't in the past.

Eventually the game will reach the point where it's pointless even for someone with my playstyle - or, more likely, it'll reach the point where it's no longer earning its keep before then - and I'll be done, but the memories of doing things my way, for my own entertainment, are what I'll end up keeping. And very little of that involves content that was relevant at the time.

---

That's kind of beside the point of why I mentioned the 75-cap era, though. I mentioned it because the "all gear is situational" thing leads directly to complaints about inventory space as an unfortunate side effect, and the devs are trying to minimize that particular complaint through means other than "here, have more inventory". It wasn't "have the best stuff or GTFO", it was "carry forty pieces of equipment and make life a pain in the ass for your healers who aren't using tools to ignore people blinking out, or GTFO".

Secondplanet

01-07-2014, 09:51 PM

Puck

01-07-2014, 10:28 PM

You really need to consider doing a 109/119 of the AF2 (relic) or AF3 (empyrean set) , you really dont need to create more new different armor, just let us build on alot of our beloved pre existing pieces that we already carry around for JA/situational macro pieces.
We don't need item level higher than 119, seriously just let us 109/119 sidegrade for the next year AF2/AF3.
I could've sworn I heard the dev team was considering relic/empyrean armor ilevel upgrades. Was I just imagining that? Well, for sure I know they said this:

Rune fencer and geomancer job-specific equipment
We'll introduce relic and empyrean armor for rune fencer and geomancer in the future.
Which would be COMPLETELY useless if they weren't ilvl gear. So I'm hoping that means they're going to give relic and empyrean gear the same treatment they gave AF. If not, then WTF are they thinking??

Tamarsamar

01-08-2014, 01:02 AM

That's kind of beside the point of why I mentioned the 75-cap era, though. I mentioned it because the "all gear is situational" thing leads directly to complaints about inventory space as an unfortunate side effect, and the devs are trying to minimize that particular complaint through means other than "here, have more inventory". It wasn't "have the best stuff or GTFO", it was "carry forty pieces of equipment and make life a pain in the ass for your healers who aren't using tools to ignore people blinking out, or GTFO".

Now this I can understand, but it still doesn't sit right with me how dramatically more powerful equipment seemed to become overnight. Weapons literally more than doubled in power (which is kind of ridiculous, if you ask me, even for an alleged 20-level gap). However much equipment you were using before was almost all rendered effectively worthless by whatever SE feels like should be the new best-in-slot at the time. In effect, it's actually a worse deal for players whose inventories were cramped with gear swaps--sure, they have tons more free inventory space now, but only because all their prior treasure has since turned to trash!

And you know as well as I do that SE will keep populating the "Level 119" tier of equipment with rewards from whatever new content they want players to participate in. As I seem to have missed your point, you seem to have missed mine: what's stopping them from decimating relevant content all over again simply by introducing a new "top tier" item level on a whim, obtained from a single event that--if Delve is anything to go by--probably isn't any fun, either?

Catmato

01-08-2014, 02:31 AM

So sitting at a HNM camp for hours on end just hoping you beat the other LSs that might or might not have bots and if it happen to spawn in JP prime good luck. Oh and then killing Kirin for the 1000th time hoping it's your turn for W.legs. None of the old content at 75 cap was hard just a giant time sink of extremely low drop rates. Frankly yes to get into a HNMls that did ground on a DD you were expected to have the best of the best gear to even be considered not cause it was hard just cause so many people wanted it. Sky was just that easy that getting into a sky LS AH gear was more then enough, sea finding your way was the hardest thing, limbus what a joke that was, the really good players were 6 manning Omega with 18 people with half a brain it was a cake walk. Dyna staying awake was the hardest. Ein was about the hardest event around to bad it relied to heavy on pure luck on which mobs you got, roll drk elements and the Chairmen you were in for a time and drops from the none Odin chambers were crap. There just wasn't enough incentive to get the masses to do it. As opposed to the current state of the game which boils down to:
-Get sparks gear because it's better than anything but Delve gear
-Delve
-Log out

I'll take my Sky, Sea, Dyna, Limbus, Ein, Assault/Nyzul, etc. Just because you grinded everything so it wasn't fun anymore doesn't mean everyone did. No, there's no clear upgrade path, but at least there was some variety.

MDenham

01-08-2014, 03:16 AM

Now this I can understand, but it still doesn't sit right with me how dramatically more powerful equipment seemed to become overnight. Weapons literally more than doubled in power (which is kind of ridiculous, if you ask me, even for an alleged 20-level gap). However much equipment you were using before was almost all rendered effectively worthless by whatever SE feels like should be the new best-in-slot at the time. In effect, it's actually a worse deal for players whose inventories were cramped with gear swaps--sure, they have tons more free inventory space now, but only because all their prior treasure has since turned to trash!

And you know as well as I do that SE will keep populating the "Level 119" tier of equipment with rewards from whatever new content they want players to participate in. As I seem to have missed your point, you seem to have missed mine: what's stopping them from decimating relevant content all over again simply by introducing a new "top tier" item level on a whim, obtained from a single event that--if Delve is anything to go by--probably isn't any fun, either?Part of why weapons went up in power as much as they did is because their progression hadn't matched even a linear progression (in DPS terms, that is) between 75 and 99 - you look at the highest DPS weapons in the 75 era, they sit around 13-15 DPS... and by the time you hit 99, they're around 16-17 DPS. In the immortal (but slightly censored) words of a Picard image macro, "WTF is this derp?"

That, more than anything, is where Abyssea's problems were: armor progression was good (actually, armor progression was kind of ridiculous because pretty much all of your gear was obsoleted, setting the stage for what we see now), but weapon progression was - for the most part, anyway - a giant pile of derp.

And I could have sworn I answered the "what's stopping them" question: the only thing that's stopping them is their idea of balance. We could get another wholesale change of direction in six months, or three years, or whatever where they decide to raise the actual level cap to something ridiculous rather than going on this gear-progression treadmill. Or it could remain fairly true to what they've said in the past, and 99(119) is where it stops.

Really, only one thing is certain: people are going to complain no matter what SE does. Trying to make everyone happy is a lost cause, like it is in any field. You just try to make the most people happy that you can.

Jerbob

01-08-2014, 04:39 AM

(Insert obligatory rant about how awful the item level system is)

People are constantly concerned that their hard-earned equipment is going to be rendered obsolete within a couple of months of it being introduced. The work people put into augments that are going to be replaced almost immediately is a shining example of this issue. SE's future plans need to take this into account - vertical progression simply does NOT work properly in this game. If SE is so insistent on retaining the insanity of item levels, rather than a character-based level system (using an existing system like merits), then the cap has to stay at 119. Otherwise, zap us and our gear back to level 99 and sort out an alternative level representing system that actually works.

This game is built on a foundation of gear having various uses for various jobs. There's an (admittedly inadequate) macroing system and tons of stats spread across tons of jobs that cement this feature as a keystone upon which the game relies. It's something that I feel makes this game more appealing than some of the alternatives. As things stand, there are only a very limited number of item level appropriate equipment sets available, all conforming to SE's already lamentably short-sighted "mage/light DD/heavy DD" paradigm. This is not going to be enough to support the game's fundamental job and stat system when combined with item levels - yes, it's (unfortunately) the system they've always conformed to, but when there are ten sets of level-appropriate mage/light DD/heavy DD available, increasing all the time through horizontal progression, there's something to suit everyone somewhere. As thing stands, players have to wear otherwise useless gear with item level stat vomit just to stay alive - and for jobs with specific stat requirements, like SMN, that's not different to being forced to use pure DEF gear at 99. Some jobs - SMN being another prime example - have only just escaped from this gear pigeonholing.

There needs to be a horizontal spread or jobs are going to be left out. Horizontal spread is intrinsically incompatible with the vertical progression system.

SE's specific announcement here is fine, I guess. There's nothing particularly horrible in it, and some potentially interesting additions. However, these aren't really the kind of "future plans" that we need to be seeing. It's important for players to be able to understand what SE's long term intent is with regard to the item level and vertical progression paradigms as a whole - fundamental questions such as "Are things going to keep increasing?" have already been raised in this thread, and they are so important because they change the whole nature of the game. By not supplying us with this sort of information about long-term plans and general intent with regard to progression, SE is not answering the fundamental question that a lot of us would like clarified - where is this all going and, as a result, should we even be bothering..

Who's stopping you guys from creating Item Level 120 items on a lark? 139? 159? 9001? If Vana'diel intends to survive for another 11 years, we need stronger levies against such rampant, spiraling power creep between players and enemies both.
This Tarutaru presents the issue brilliantly.

Catmato

01-08-2014, 08:22 AM

Basically we will not be making it so you need to have older equipment to obtain the new equipment, and for the exceptions where you can upgrade and there are requirements to exchange existing equipment, we feel it necessary to make it easier to obtain the original item as well as have a way to recover the items if they were thrown away.

I feel that much of the playerbase would rather upgrade their gear so that they have something to make continual progress on. Also, so they don't have to throw away everything they worked for every couple months due to being outdated.

Demonjustin

01-08-2014, 09:22 AM

I would like both options. Do something similar to that of Reforged Gear.

If you have the original Hagondes Coat you need 5000 blah points to obtain Hagondes Coat +1 and all augments are transferred over.
If you do not have the original Hagondes Coat, you need 10000 blah points to obtain Hagondes Coat +1, but it must be augmented normally.

Players with and without the original can obtain the new piece of gear, players with the old version have an easier time obtaining it, and continue to have use of their augments, win win for everyone.

detlef

01-08-2014, 09:43 AM

I feel that much of the playerbase would rather upgrade their gear so that they have something to make continual progress on. Also, so they don't have to throw away everything they worked for every couple months due to being outdated.It really depends on the piece. Upgraded AF, Relic, Empyrean, and Salvage armor all work because that gear is all easy to get now. Would you want to see upgraded Pulse weapons if you didn't have one?

Oh and no more random augments. All that Skirmish gear is weeping.

Catmato

01-08-2014, 10:45 AM

It really depends on the piece. Upgraded AF, Relic, Empyrean, and Salvage armor all work because that gear is all easy to get now. Would you want to see upgraded Pulse weapons if you didn't have one?

Oh and no more random augments. All that Skirmish gear is weeping.I kinda meant current gear. Let us upgrade the stuff we're already wearing.

Demonjustin

01-08-2014, 11:23 AM

detlef

01-08-2014, 11:28 AM

Basically I think Catmato is saying we do not need another +1 set like we had for the Bayld sets, where its +1 and NQ had literally no relationship with one another in their obtainment, you could not upgrade the originals to +1 if you tried, you had to throw them away and buy the new +1 gear.I think we can agree that no good came of that. The implementation of Bayld +1 gear and RoE gear was just bizarre especially after Yorcia Skirmish.

Catmato

01-08-2014, 12:24 PM

Basically I think Catmato is saying we do not need another +1 set like we had for the Bayld sets, where its +1 and NQ had literally no relationship with one another in their obtainment, you could not upgrade the originals to +1 if you tried, you had to throw them away and buy the new +1 gear.

I wasn't talking about those specifically, but that's a very good example. I'd rather spend Sparks upgrading my Espial gear than throw it away and buy new stuff.

Glamdring

01-08-2014, 02:55 PM

the biggest problem I see with this is what amongst the gear we've gotten in the last few end-game pools of gear can safely be tossed as never relevant again. even with the porter system there is a large quantity of gear that is not porterable or muleable that is R/EX. I don't want to toss a piece that took alot of effort to make, is now irrelevant and then have you make it upgradeable down the road. An example would be all those elemental and TP axes I made for beast with Magian trials. I would be infuriated if I was told they are forever useless, toss them, then 6 months later get a "Good news, in the next version update your elemental magian gear will be upgradeable through a new..."

Zhronne

01-08-2014, 04:22 PM

In regards to instruments, we are currently looking into adding an instrument that will add another song, but I can’t promise a time frame just yet.
Seeing as how "necessary" (or should I say "expected"?) having at least 3 songs has become as of lately, this is a very welcome addition for everybody willing to play BRD.

Still, if you want to go this way (which I personally approve) it becomes even more necessary than it is now that you guys do "something" about making the 90>99 Daurdabla upgrade more reasonable.
I'm not talking about giving a free one to the current lv90 Daurdabla owners of course, but something has to be done to make it more realistically possible with the current state of the game.

Several actions could be taken concerning this, and I feel this should be addressed in multiple ways.
Giving slightly more reasons for people to be doing Voidwatch, slightly increasing the droprates of Heavy Metal Plates and Riftcinders, and making them available from other sources as well.
Records of Eminence could be the right answer to many of these points.

Demonjustin

01-08-2014, 06:19 PM

Well really I would say lower the amounts needed to 150 Heavy Metal Plates and 10 Riftcinder/Riftdross, and/or change the drops so that when you get anything besides a piece of armor you do not already have, in your top slot of your box, you automatically get a Heavy Metal Plate, and for Cinder/Dross increase the drop rate to around 25% and 10% for the respective NMs, since it seems to be something like Cinder 5% on Morta but 1% on Bismarck or some such.

Catmato

01-09-2014, 02:30 AM

I would be infuriated if I was told they are forever useless, toss them, then 6 months later get a "Good news, in the next version update your elemental magian gear will be upgradeable through a new..."Please tell me I'm not the only one still holding out for this.

Zhronne

01-09-2014, 05:32 AM

Well really I would say lower the amounts needed to 150 Heavy Metal Plates and 10 Riftcinder/Riftdross
Now I wouldn't complain for that, but it's not realistical and honestly too extreme of a reduction.
Also, increasing drop rates usually feels "better" than just reducing the number required. The result is the same, but it has a better placebo effect on both the players who already completed the trials and those who still have to.

Demonjustin

01-09-2014, 07:58 AM

Either one works, but either way they need to do something. If a 3 song instrument is introduced, which I have no issue with personally, it will essentially make the Empyrean 90 nothing more than an upgrade for duration, which is by no means a bad thing, but its going to annoy some, make others angry, and make the last upgrade all the more important, which I very much agree with you about I believe.

Luscia

01-09-2014, 07:59 AM

Secondplanet

01-09-2014, 08:31 AM

SE... why would you add another instrument that adds a 3rd song? You technically "fixed" that problem with Clarion Call more or less. If you do add an instrument that has a 3rd song than you NEED to do something about upgrading the Daurdabla. This is the exact problem I had with the ilvl gear in the first place; players go out of their way to make themselves special and stand out so they would be wanted in events and then you come out and trash the items we worked so hard for. I upgraded my Gungnir to 119 because I love my DRG and that was my special piece for it, but Upukirex still craps all over it without even mentioning that the DEF Down from Gungnir overrides Angon (yeah, look into that people). I have both GHorn and Daurdabla; both incomplete due to the ridiculousness to upgrade them and now some random Aby burned BRD can have 3 songs? You also mention a new shield will be coming along too; so should I just tell my BF to hold off on making his Ochain and Aegis because why bother when this will be way better and easier to get? You said before you didn't want old content to be forgotten yet you are making it so we don't have to do them at all. I sneeze and oh look there's a new polearm for DRG. You used to speak of balance and I think you have to look up what that word means, because this crap isn't it. I have played this game for almost 10 years and seeing the way you started out and going to what it is now; you had more of a harmonic balance back when we were 75. Even with the intro to the Emp weapons, it didn't break the game; RMEs didn't mean your job didn't function without them. All weapons were close in power more or less and you weren't looked down upon if you didn't have them (unless you were COR cause WF was actually OP). So think about this aspect before you add these items.

The problem is that now if you don't have Daurdabla you go without a party, i use to love playing bard, but being a family man and poor health to boot i don't have much time to play the game, so now a job i use to love to play i can't and even though i know every song, have every skill capped i'm called a noob cause i don't have something that just myself am unable to obtain within a reasonable time. You made the point of the time you sunk into the game making your harp/horn/polearm but look at all the time you spent leveling a job back in the day, now someone can do it in one day. The game has changed to a faster more rewarding (sometimes) game.

I welcome a chance at easier to get shields and Harps/Horns since there seems to be a huge demand for Brd and pld. SE is trying to get more people back into this game and at some points pushing others away. I have played summoner since i started playing back in 2005, i love the job and played it non stop both being a whm or solo'ing to get my levels which took months upon months to complete. I see some of the gear out now that just !@#$'s all over the stuff i've obtained over the years including my favorite YYR. Its just how the game is becoming which is a rather sad state but its the path the SE has chosen.

Luscia

01-09-2014, 08:44 AM

The problem is that now if you don't have Daurdabla you go without a party, i use to love playing bard, but being a family man and poor health to boot i don't have much time to play the game, so now a job i use to love to play i can't and even though i know every song, have every skill capped i'm called a noob cause i don't have something that just myself am unable to obtain within a reasonable time.

I really don't know of any BRD who has been turned away. Granted I can only really speak of Delve now, but most BRDs I have seen in my parties that I would be rotating with are what you are more or less saying an "NQ" BRD; no Ghorn or Emp harp. What are you considering a reasonable time frame? My Gungnir took 2 years to make to 75, my Ghorn and harp 1 year because I work, hang with my friends and have interests outside of this game.

Demonviper

01-09-2014, 11:18 PM

I really don't know of any BRD who has been turned away. Granted I can only really speak of Delve now, but most BRDs I have seen in my parties that I would be rotating with are what you are more or less saying an "NQ" BRD; no Ghorn or Emp harp. What are you considering a reasonable time frame? My Gungnir took 2 years to make to 75, my Ghorn and harp 1 year because I work, hang with my friends and have interests outside of this game.

Who's going to spend 2 years building a weapon, armor or instrument now? Given the state of the game and knowing full well that within 6 months SE will be introducing something better, easier to obtain and having a good long laugh at all our hard work.

Sapphires

01-10-2014, 03:20 AM

Now I wouldn't complain for that, but it's not realistical and honestly too extreme of a reduction.
Also, increasing drop rates usually feels "better" than just reducing the number required. The result is the same, but it has a better placebo effect on both the players who already completed the trials and those who still have to.

I'd rather see more people doing voidwatch and see drop rates increased than reducing the number of materials needed for an upgrade.
In iLevel gear and halfway intelligent job distribution people are doing Qilin, Uptala etc with only 6 people.

Too many people are sitting on hundred of voidstones but are just scared/lazy to participate, or want everything easymode and handed to them through records of eminence by grinding trashmobs.

The only voidwatch monsters that have balance/difficulty issues in the era of low manning voidwatch are ones like Kalasutrax/Ig Alima if staggers/temps run out to save you from their doom moves.
It would be far better to have voidwatch content made more appealing with a revamp than to have it never used.

FaeQueenCory

01-10-2014, 03:25 AM

More skirmish armor upgrades really? That armor is so ugly, so generic, everyone has been super happy with the 109/119 AF reforged armor and getting out of that ugly skirmish junk.

You really need to consider doing a 109/119 of the AF2 (relic) or AF3 (empyrean set) , you really dont need to create more new different armor, just let us build on alot of our beloved pre existing pieces that we already carry around for JA/situational macro pieces.
We don't need item level higher than 119, seriously just let us 109/119 sidegrade for the next year AF2/AF3.
Good News!
Matsui already said that the Relic and Empyrean sets will be iLvficated....
AND that they will be 119!
...
I'd also bet that it requires 0 effort to have RUN and GEO's AF2 and 3 be 119... betting they'll be that "out of the box"... just like their RF1/AF1 is.
And while they might start at 109... that would mean that the 119 is "+4" for relic and empy pieces.... and chances are it'll just be 1 upgrade... no data to support that, just a feeling that 90ish gear will get an upgrade to 119 instead of a half upgrade.
(cause 50-60 to 109 was only to match the iLv of RUN and GEO's AF1... basically whatever the base iLv for RUN and GEO's relic and empy pieces will be will be the iLv step for everyone else...)
BUT he DID say that the method will be entirely different... which I suppose makes me suspect the straight-to-119 upgrade... cause... if not... why not just use the same pages?
Basically, in light of this new 119 skirmish sets... there will be 4 full 119 armor sets to pick and choose from, and then the random pieces here and there from Delve and the Ark Angels/Divine Might 2. (RF1+1, RF2, RF3, 119Skirmish)

And I like the skirmish sets pieces.... though if the 119 upgrade allowed to change the color of the model to either the pre-existing white or black version.... I'd REALLY like the skirmish sets more.

Demonjustin

01-10-2014, 05:46 AM

Too many people are sitting on hundred of voidstones but are just scared/lazy to participateI'm not exactly sure I would call it laziness. At 1500 plates even at a 18 person party and a 33%~ish drop rate on singles (http://ffxidb.com/items/3509) as we have now you are looking at roughly 500 fights average. Going by pouch (http://ffxidb.com/items/5910) mobs it would be something more like a 5% drop with an average of 10 plates inside puts you at an average of roughly 170 fights. This is all assuming 18 player parties as well, if you are talking about 6-maning these fights then your looking at triple the rates, so 500~1500 fights.

As I said, I do not think laziness is exactly what I would call it, in a day and age when people did VW a lot and most people did not need plates, these trials still sucked, but they were more realistic because there was at very least some amount of supply, but today, when no one does VW really and the plate supply is near non-existent? 1500 plates is ludicrous.

Kote

01-10-2014, 12:25 PM

I'm still supridsed that even with I level sheilds now, Aegis and Ochain were not part of the RME weapon sets (unless its part of the armor sets) getting reforged to ilev119. Even if they dont want to change the stats on them. Would any additional +sheild skill added to those two make a difference in how they would function?

Sapphires

01-11-2014, 04:05 AM

I'm not exactly sure I would call it laziness. At 1500 plates even at a 18 person party and a 33%~ish drop rate on singles (http://ffxidb.com/items/3509) as we have now you are looking at roughly 500 fights average. Going by pouch (http://ffxidb.com/items/5910) mobs it would be something more like a 5% drop with an average of 10 plates inside puts you at an average of roughly 170 fights. This is all assuming 18 player parties as well, if you are talking about 6-maning these fights then your looking at triple the rates, so 500~1500 fights.

As I said, I do not think laziness is exactly what I would call it, in a day and age when people did VW a lot and most people did not need plates, these trials still sucked, but they were more realistic because there was at very least some amount of supply, but today, when no one does VW really and the plate supply is near non-existent? 1500 plates is ludicrous.

If people want plates, start paying more to create incentive for more supply and stop clinging to paying the old 70-100k rate.
I know of 2 Ukons that did their plate stages completely in a few weeks recently because word got out they were paying 150k a plate.

I play on JP time and they do alot of VW and most of the plates they get sell out before NA/EU time, this same thing is happening for dynamis money in regards to supply, theres a huge demand spike right now, lot of people have gil to burn from farming RME cases/reforge mats from AAs and other things. This game is throwing gil at people right now doing certain activities.

Its really not as dire as people make it out to be, anyone in RoE gear can solo farm other content (salvage+dynamis) easily to make a couple million a day and bankroll the cost of rift/cinder/dross if they really want to make a 119 empyrean.

Olor

01-11-2014, 04:56 AM

I'd like to see voidwatch armor sets be reforged/upgraded. It's the only ways to get people to actually do voidwatch. I'd be happy to lead some runs but there is zero point because it takes so long to get enough people with triggers and the rewards are not worth it. People are not paying enough for plates for it to be worthwhile. ALSO - the pulse armor is the nicest looking gear in the game. It seems stupid to leave it functionally worthless. Even if VW armor just could be taken to 117 or something that would be nice and help fill out options. There are some interesting gear pieces and since they can be used for several jobs they would be nice to have. If they made the upgrade items for voidwatch gear mostly be obtained THROUGH voidwatch it would be even better. Especially if it was just one kind of item used to upgrade all gears so we don't have to collect 2000 different kinds of do dad.

Louispv

01-11-2014, 05:35 PM

If people want plates, start paying more to create incentive for more supply and stop clinging to paying the old 70-100k rate.
I know of 2 Ukons that did their plate stages completely in a few weeks recently because word got out they were paying 150k a plate.

I play on JP time and they do alot of VW and most of the plates they get sell out before NA/EU time, this same thing is happening for dynamis money in regards to supply, theres a huge demand spike right now, lot of people have gil to burn from farming RME cases/reforge mats from AAs and other things. This game is throwing gil at people right now doing certain activities.

Its really not as dire as people make it out to be, anyone in RoE gear can solo farm other content (salvage+dynamis) easily to make a couple million a day and bankroll the cost of rift/cinder/dross if they really want to make a 119 empyrean.

Yeah, but you realize that that puts empyrian weapons at about 300 million gil to complete just up to 99, right? And that instead you could get a relic to 119 for 150 million gil, and get another one besides. And even if you did make the 119 empyrian, a relic/mythic/delve/ark angel weapon with the unlocked empyrian ws is still probably better anyway. Except for COR, which literally has no other weapon option, there's no real point in making an empyrian at that price. (And no COR is going to make one anyway, since 99% of COR's just put up rolls, and go afk or play as a shitty /WHM.)

That's all beside the point anyway. Doesn't matter how much money you have, when there's none up for sale. Most of the heavy metal plates in the last month were from the Kindred crest burning circles, which could drop singles and pouches, and were soloable by basically everyone. Thus there was an influx of them into the market, until that event ended. There really hasn't been an increase in the zero people doing voidwatch, there was just a new source for a few weeks.

Karah

01-11-2014, 06:36 PM

Actually dood On our server we're doing Morta 6-7x daily... and there was a stretch of Qilin while Luloo was obtaining 1500 plates.

Bred Briste or Jaqen shouts morta every couple hours atm.

Louispv

01-12-2014, 10:11 AM

Actually dood On our server we're doing Morta 6-7x daily... and there was a stretch of Qilin while Luloo was obtaining 1500 plates.

Bred Briste or Jaqen shouts morta every couple hours atm.
You mean the ones where they just zerg it to death as fast as humanly possible, without any triggers because they just want the fast merits for ark angel pops? Cause the single plates that can drop, with only lucky/accidental triggers ain't exactly flooding the market.

Karah

01-12-2014, 12:37 PM

No...?

99% of them are capped, they don't go out of their way to bring loljobs like blu smn pup bst dnc so you cant ALWAYS get time:reward ratio 100% but 99% it's closeenough.jpg

Sapphires

01-13-2014, 12:20 AM

Yeah, but you realize that that puts empyrian weapons at about 300 million gil to complete just up to 99, right? And that instead you could get a relic to 119 for 150 million gil, and get another one besides. And even if you did make the 119 empyrian, a relic/mythic/delve/ark angel weapon with the unlocked empyrian ws is still probably better anyway. Except for COR, which literally has no other weapon option, there's no real point in making an empyrian at that price. (And no COR is going to make one anyway, since 99% of COR's just put up rolls, and go afk or play as a shitty /WHM.)

That's all beside the point anyway. Doesn't matter how much money you have, when there's none up for sale. Most of the heavy metal plates in the last month were from the Kindred crest burning circles, which could drop singles and pouches, and were soloable by basically everyone. Thus there was an influx of them into the market, until that event ended. There really hasn't been an increase in the zero people doing voidwatch, there was just a new source for a few weeks.

Looking at the ffxiah site for your server, theres over 100 plates in bazaars right now.

On my server casually checking bazaars I can find 50-100 plates a day for my friend 119'ing his caladbolg.

Yes its expensive to 119 an empyrean, so are mythics, don't cry about the price, then contradict yourself again and say relic/aa/mythic are better anyways and empy is pointless, then say gil is irrelevant and say theres no plates for sale when there are some regulary up for sale. So much contradiction going on there.

People that want to finish a 119 empy that needs plates are getting them done because they make their own vw shouts and offer to buy plates/pouches on the spot. People complaining are not trying hard enough and not paying enough - thats all there is to it.

I usually avoid posting on the official forums, but i'm rather tired of people crying about the work and cost involved building and upgrading an RME and wanting it to be made more easymode. People suddenly want all of the prestige of owning a 119 RME without doing any of the work and would probably endlessly grind mandies in ceizak for an RME if they could.

Kimjongil

01-13-2014, 03:33 AM

Louispv

01-15-2014, 02:54 PM

Looking at the ffxiah site for your server, theres over 100 plates in bazaars right now.

On my server casually checking bazaars I can find 50-100 plates a day for my friend 119'ing his caladbolg.

Yes its expensive to 119 an empyrean, so are mythics, don't cry about the price, then contradict yourself again and say relic/aa/mythic are better anyways and empy is pointless, then say gil is irrelevant and say theres no plates for sale when there are some regulary up for sale. So much contradiction going on there.

People that want to finish a 119 empy that needs plates are getting them done because they make their own vw shouts and offer to buy plates/pouches on the spot. People complaining are not trying hard enough and not paying enough - thats all there is to it.

I usually avoid posting on the official forums, but i'm rather tired of people crying about the work and cost involved building and upgrading an RME and wanting it to be made more easymode. People suddenly want all of the prestige of owning a 119 RME without doing any of the work and would probably endlessly grind mandies in ceizak for an RME if they could.

I don't even know how to respond to this jibberish. Yes people are making them, that doesn't make it a good idea. I don't get how I'm contradicting myself when I point out that among all the 119 weapons, the empyrians are both the crappiest, AND the most expensive and difficult to get. When mythics end up cheaper than empyrians, there's a bit of an issue. Especially when the issue isn't difficult content that people aren't able to do because they suck, but old outdated content no one wants to do because it's pointless.

For instance, why would your friend waste his time making a 119 Caladbolg, when he could have got a 119 Ragnarok, and a 119 Apocalypse, both superior weapons, for the same price? Or make any at all when he can do potentially 1 ark angel fight and get a Tunglmyrkvi that is still far better than the caladbolg? Or go to the AH and buy a Senbaak Nagan for 3 million which is about equal? What is the point of the cheapier, easier, crappier alternative to relics, when they've become the more difficult, more expensive, crappier alternative to relics?

Karah

01-15-2014, 04:53 PM

What is the point of the cheaper, easier, crappier alternative to relics, when they've become the more difficult, more expensive, crappier alternative to relics?

There have to be objectives for stupid people too dood. Why do you think they're always coming out with new shinies that are usually not really shiny at all...

If everyone always had the best stuff and weren't making 119 Caladbolgs and Gungnirs, who would we make fun of?

Kimjongil

01-15-2014, 07:25 PM

I don't even know how to respond to this jibberish. Yes people are making them, that doesn't make it a good idea. I don't get how I'm contradicting myself when I point out that among all the 119 weapons, the empyrians are both the crappiest, AND the most expensive and difficult to get. When mythics end up cheaper than empyrians, there's a bit of an issue. Especially when the issue isn't difficult content that people aren't able to do because they suck, but old outdated content no one wants to do because it's pointless.

For instance, why would your friend waste his time making a 119 Caladbolg, when he could have got a 119 Ragnarok, and a 119 Apocalypse, both superior weapons, for the same price? Or make any at all when he can do potentially 1 ark angel fight and get a Tunglmyrkvi that is still far better than the caladbolg? Or go to the AH and buy a Senbaak Nagan for 3 million which is about equal? What is the point of the cheapier, easier, crappier alternative to relics, when they've become the more difficult, more expensive, crappier alternative to relics?

While I agree their is little insensitive to go from 90 to 119 on many weapons, I would disagree that people who do comete it are stupid or dumb.

Many people complete emoy ar mythic weapons to 119 for love of there job or personal satasification.

I do feel empys should be buffed somehow. Maybe 20% more potency for club, staff or something. Or even add occult to aftermath for tp gain. I don't know. But many people can unlock empy and do mire dmg with the ws on relic mythric or even aa weapons. And many more weapons will come.

Griblit

01-16-2014, 12:24 AM

I think the important thing that needs to happen at this point, is to take all the different kinds of gear we've worked for over the years, and reforge it all so its all iLVL 119, to be equal with each other.

That way people can keep busy reforging, and mixing and matching stuff. Then we can wear our favorite gear, and it will all be on par. Of course minor differences here and there will be necessary, like macroing in for augments and different situations, etc...

Reforge all this! :D

1. AF
2. Relic
3. Empy
4. Salvage
5. Abjurations
6. Sky stuff
7. Limbus
8. Nyzul Isle
9. Assault

Karah

01-16-2014, 02:26 AM

Reforge all this! :D

4. Salvage

<Yes, please>

Rwolf

01-16-2014, 08:31 AM

First, the equipment we are currently planning to make upgradeable is the reward equipment from Rala Waterways, Cirdas Cavern, and Yorcia Weald skirmishes. You’ll be able to perform the final upgrade to item level 119 with the new skirmishes that are to be added.

Besides these items, we do not have any plans to upgrade other equipment with item levels. Also, we’ll be introducing brand-new rewards in the skirmishes to be added after the next round.

In regards to upgrading gear from Skirmish. Can we please have the new skirmish gear be upgradeable in a similar system to delve? And the same for all other content going forward that will be augmented? Random augmenting is a horrible system and it doesn't prolong the life of your content. You get players who are willing to spend millions of gil on the upgrade items and ones like myself who will try a few times and give up because I know in a month or two. It'll be worthless so why do it.

With upgradeable paths for different stats you still prolong content because you give a very obtainable goal through hard work. And if you make the paths different and vary enough, you can make it so players are encouraged to make multiples of one item. Static progression is much more enjoyable than random progression, especially in this age of vertical progression in gear. Let us enjoy the gear at max for awhile, instead of the unlucky and impoverished finally getting max augments only to find it's about to get upgraded and wiped out.

Camate

01-18-2014, 05:22 AM

Greetings,

Below is a follow-up comment from Akihiko Matsui in regards to adjustments related to items and content.

Please stop basing all of the adjustments around Ochain
Matsui here.

When creating content, the development team play tests over and over for adjustment purposes, but they actually do not use Ochain, Daurdabla, or other similar equipment.

We adjust content so that even without RME weapons you are able to clear it as long as you have equipment with a high enough item level. This goes the same for extremely difficult content. (Naturally it’s not easy since it’s extremely difficult…)

With that said though, the people who are recruiting for parties may feel the responsibility of “we can’t lose!” and are searching for a safer party setup.

While this is a difficult issue, we would like to make it so you can all play more easily by working on things from various angles.

Karah

01-19-2014, 11:51 PM

Greetings,
Below is a follow-up comment from Akihiko Matsui in regards to adjustments related to items and content.

When creating content, the development team play tests over and over for adjustment purposes, but they actually do not use Ochain, Daurdabla, or other similar equipment.

I would love nothing more than to watch Matsui and his party attempt Very Difficult AA's (ESPECIALLY if he were to tank it using RUN)...

Camiie

01-20-2014, 06:18 AM

The problem I see is that the Emp/Relic instruments and shields are seemingly sacred cows that can never be allowed to be surpassed or even equaled, while most every other piece of equipment that I can think of has a viable alternative. I get that the devs painted themselves into a corner by making the instruments and shields so overpowered, but it seems like it's the players who are paying the price for it. What's even more a slap in the face is that at first it looked like Killedar would be made into a rival for Ochain, but the proposed stats were dialed back for whatever reason. I just don't get it.

Karah

01-20-2014, 08:02 AM

dasva

01-20-2014, 02:24 PM

Colorless soul farming is soul crushing...

And part of the reason the level 90 version is so good is because blocking wise both rate and dmg there is no difference between the 90 and 99 versions.

It should also be noted that ochain isn't even right now currently the best shield for blocking in the game for all situations. In dmg reduced per block it's actually slightly lower than koenig. That's right per block a cheap crafted lvl 75 shield blocks more dmg. And both aegis and killedar (and probably alot of the newer ilvl shields) block waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more dmg per block. The main thing is outside of the new ilvl ones and ochain blockrate is capped down around 65% without palisade/reprisal iirc. So overall dmg blocked is more with ochain/ilvl shields. That said iirc killedar already is fairly close to ochains overall block dmg on ~110 content and higher with block rate increases

Speaking of ilvl shields... does anyone know if eminent has some kind of hidden effect? All the weapons got latents which is what mainly boosted them to being better than the 115s.... but with just the visible stats eminent appears to be vastly inferior to killedar despite the same ilvl

Camiie

01-20-2014, 11:22 PM

If you knew what just an absolute pain it was to obtain Ochain, fighting with a thousand other people over t2 pops, and being denied color changes literally, hundreds of times... you might see why making something FREE on par or better than Ochain, would just be insane.

Trust me, I've helped with enough peoples' souls that I should have my own Ochain by now. No one should have to go through all that just to make a job work. It's a disservice to the player base as a whole.

Obviously new things replace old things and make old things easier, etc. But souls are still the biggest time:reward sink ever created.... (barring alexandrite and plates)

And? You know that the real reason SE hasn't obsoleted the shields and instruments is because they're overpowered. It has nothing to do with their respect of your efforts.

VoiceMemo

03-07-2014, 10:49 PM

Speaking as a Carnwenhan 119, Gjallarhorn 99, Daurdabla 90(working way to 99). A new 3 song instrument without any buff to Daurdabla is a slap in the face. As a career brd I strived to be the best bard possible. But if SE is going to make easier to get instruments, just because people want 3 songs brds, you'll get fewer and fewer career brds. Just because you have 3 songs doesn't make a good brd, you still need to know how to utilize it well from timing, song orders and priorities.

Camate

03-13-2014, 03:33 AM

Greetings,

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team would like to add new shields and instruments so that both paladin and bard can have an easier time playing without being too focused on obtaining relics and empyreans. I'd like to share the development team's thoughts at the moment and what is planned for the future.

Shields
Currently, shield blocks and the amount of damage reduced are affected by the following:

Damage reduced: type of shield and shield defense
Block rate: type of shield, player shield skill, combat skill attributed to each monster

Comparing Ochain and the easier to obtain Beatific Shield +1, damage reduction from the Beatific Shield is approximately 50%, while Ochain is around 60%, and the block rate, though it depends on the enemy, is very close between the two. On the other hand, the Killedar Shield’s damage reduction nearly reaches 70%, but the block rate is lower. While Ochain is still more powerful than both of these shields, we've managed to close the large gap that existed in the past.

We plan on adding new item level 119 shields moving forward to close this gap even more.

Instruments
In the April version update we will be introducing a new instrument that grants an additional song. As this effect is extremely powerful, it won't be so easy to obtain; however, we'd like this to be another option in addition to Daurdabla.

While the treatment of powerful equipment can be difficult, we'd like to continue to increase other choices so that these jobs can join parties easier and have a more comfortable time playing.

Mirage

03-13-2014, 03:47 AM

Zhronne

03-13-2014, 04:02 AM

Instruments
In the April version update we will be introducing a new instrument that grants an additional song. As this effect is extremely powerful, it won't be so easy to obtain; however, we'd like this to be another option in addition to Daurdabla.

Will this new instrument "stack" with Daurdabla 90? Meaning owners of Daurdabla 90 will be able to get 4 songs with this instrument?

Olor

03-13-2014, 04:27 AM

Instruments
In the April version update we will be introducing a new instrument that grants an additional song. As this effect is extremely powerful, it won't be so easy to obtain; however, we'd like this to be another option in addition to Daurdabla.

While the treatment of powerful equipment can be difficult, we'd like to continue to increase other choices so that these jobs can join parties easier and have a more comfortable time playing.

I appreciate the thought here. Unfortunately if it is too difficult to obtain the players that need it the most will not be able to get it. Basically the only BRDs that will be invited to the content where you can get it - will be the bards that already have a Dharp.

I know someone will say "level another job" or whatever - but the problem is it is EVEN HARDER to get a party for difficult content as a Damage Dealer than it is as a so-so bard.

Camiie

03-13-2014, 06:46 AM

Speaking as a Carnwenhan 119, Gjallarhorn 99, Daurdabla 90(working way to 99). A new 3 song instrument without any buff to Daurdabla is a slap in the face.

By your reasoning every DD with an RME was slapped in the face when Adoulin came out. You had a much longer wait before your dominance was challenged, so you really have nothing to complain about.

As a career brd I strived to be the best bard possible. But if SE is going to make easier to get instruments, just because people want 3 songs brds, you'll get fewer and fewer career brds.

I think you're mistaking the word career for princess. No worries. It's a common mistake.

Just because you have 3 songs doesn't make a good brd, you still need to know how to utilize it well from timing, song orders and priorities.

If skill is more important than gear then what the heck is your problem? It sounds like you just want to shut people out of your exclusive club or something.

Kari

03-13-2014, 07:18 AM

Pretty much gonna echo everything Camiie said about the situation.

To begin with, Getting a 90 Daurd isn't hard. It's a bit time consuming.
I'd imagine the new instrument might be more on the difficult side with less time.
The difference is you will never get 2 songs with the new instrument, just 1.

If this new instrument required a lot less money/time and gave 2 songs, then you'd have a legitimate reason to whine.

Glamdring

03-13-2014, 08:08 AM

actually Kari it's very hard. Competition to get the NMs is fierce. and before you say get a static, I've joined 3. all broke up before they even started on mine. I've gotten 8 souls so far, soloing on my rune because I got lucky and managed to get a claim while someone's static was busy and reacted just a second or 2 too slowly. between that, the low conversion rate on the abyssite and the long repop on the NMs I don't anticipate getting this anytime soon. and the 90-99 leg is going to be murder considering the volume of plates required, noone doing VW much and the requirement for procs meaning it cannot be meaningfully soloed.

My relic will be easier since I can solo it to 75, just needing time. but past that might be a problem if/when I have to go bard as even at 119 soloing is difficult on brd. I think my event shell will help on those fights since we can do most in a single run but I can't be certain, other players have their own priorities to make themselves tougher so making the bard even stronger for stuff we only do on events nights isn't as high on their priority list. And considering that I'm good enough as a bard that we beat most content with my measly 2 songs makes it even less of a priority-no content REQUIRES 3-4 songs to beat, it just makes it alot easier and more certain.

If anything, my worry is that a 3 song instrument will give them even less incentive to help me with the harp I really do want.

Selindrile

03-13-2014, 08:56 AM

I own an Ochain and it was hellacious to get, but I am not bothered by the inclusion of these new shields, and welcome the new 3 song instrument as well.

In my perfect world Ochain/Aegis would remain the best shields and Daur/Gjaller the best instruments, but only by a small margin, would even love to see them reach iLv119, but I'd like the gap to be within something like 10~15% effectiveness of each other. Not the current world in which a max Daur literally double's a bard's effectiveness compared to any other option.

I still wish they would ease the requirements on getting Ochain, both the souls and the heavy metal plates part as well.

Shields, in actuality, are far closer, I tanked difficult AAs before getting my Ochain, with Beatific, and after recieving Ochain, I was surprised it wasn't a bigger difference, but I'm still satisified having done it, and would like to get it to 99 or 119, but as it is, I won't work on Heavy Metal Plates the way they are now.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

03-13-2014, 11:12 AM

I think you're mistaking the word career for princess. No worries. It's a common mistake.

That would explain my Pretty Princess Pally Tiara Coronet...

Peepiopi

03-13-2014, 12:09 PM

Zarchery

03-13-2014, 12:59 PM

I'm all for more non-RME options, but this feels like a little bandaid to the bigger issue. Yes this gives more non-RME users opportunities to participate in endgame boss fights, but at the end of the day, it still doesn't do anything to change the already monopolizing demand for Paladins and Bards. There are other jobs in the game you know..

What jobs do you put in the parties you create for endgame activities?

Kimjongil

03-13-2014, 01:40 PM

I wish SE would buff other jobs so its not a seven to eight job game even though 22 jobs I game. Why can't cor and geo have an extra buff to give out?

Why cant war sam drk drg blu be buffed enough to be able to do endgame like mnk and rng?

SE shouldn't try to give options to fix a problem they made, but bring back Tanaka as he at least had job balance. Their is no balance right now.

While you are at it, for high end battlefields you should introduce a new item NOt AA fights but DM, the two tower fights and others. "Blank page" This item can be traded to a NPC for a chapter of your choice 6-10. This would make people do the fights.

Demonjustin

03-13-2014, 02:22 PM

I wish SE would buff other jobs so its not a seven to eight job game even though 22 jobs I game. Why can't cor and geo have an extra buff to give out?

Why cant war sam drk drg blu be buffed enough to be able to do endgame like mnk and rng?I agree although to some extent this is impossible to balance, or SE is incapable of balancing it. They have shown everything either hits to light to matter(Delve) or hit to hard to survive(AAs). In the first category everyone complains it's to easy and the difficulty lies solely in killing the monsters fast enough to finish the event, while they often add stupidly overpowered attacks in the mix to make up for the easier enemies such as Encumbrance, Weakness, Death, Doom, or Zombie. In the second category everyone takes only PLD, MNK, and RNG, due to the fact that PLD can mitigate a ton of DMG, MNK has the highest HP and can take a lot of DMG, and RNG is able to do a ton of DMG from a distance without pulling hate which allows them to take no DMG. So long as content falls into these 2 categories, things won't change much.

MNK also holds to much utility, not only is it the DD with the highest DPS but it also has the most HP, a JA to boost it's and everyone else's HP, and JA that lets it be the best magical DD there is. That results in a job which is basically made to be perfect. Why bring a DRK when it's only doing DMG? A MNK does more magic based DMG than a DRK ever could hope to hold a candle to and DPS wise DRK falls behind a MNK so far as I know, not only that but the MNK will take more hits. The same thing goes to WAR, but WAR is even worse off with no magic damage. DRG can lower monster's DEF and has the highest Accuracy in the game which is an edge for it, while BLU has a lot of things it can do, but neither in the end surpass MNK either.

To fix this though they would have to buff every DD to have great magic DMG while also giving them all an HP boost and more utility abilities overall so that they don't become a MNK clone.

SE shouldn't try to give options to fix a problem they made, but bring back Tanaka as he at least had job balance. Their is no balance right now.Tanaka was no better, he made worse content by far, you could argue he had more job balance but nothing has really changed for the jobs except for the new weapons, which admittedly MNK's was unbalanced by the amount of skill placed on it and how MNK works, but outside of that nothing has actually changed in the end. The thing that changed job balance the most was the fact that PD went away as being a viable solution to all our problems, back when PD & Embrava were the be all end all solutions we did things like Legion using them and a verity of DDs. If PD never existed I have no doubt that eventually MNKs and Mantra cycles would have become the norm there too, we just took till Adoulin for it to happen because it wasn't till Adoulin that PD really fell out of use. If anything I would say the jobs were less balanced under him in the end though because at least Matsui has introduced things that have helped balance some of the more broken jobs such as the Animators which made PUP Automatons better, the Blood Pact Recast II stat that has helped fix SMN up a bit, and so on. In all honesty I feel like they are more balanced than before but at the same time still broken, Tanaka wasn't better when it came to balance in my opinion but he wasn't much worse either.

While you are at it, for high end battlefields you should introduce a new item NOt AA fights but DM, the two tower fights and others. "Blank page" This item can be traded to a NPC for a chapter of your choice 6-10. This would make people do the fights.This I agree with completely. The fact it's random is a massive disincentive to do it, that and the low drop rate on the battery which seems like its 1%... those drop rates never made anyone want to do a piece of content.

Kimjongil

03-13-2014, 02:49 PM

I agree although to some extent this is impossible to balance, or SE is incapable of balancing it. They have shown everything either hits to light to matter(Delve) or hit to hard to survive(AAs). In the first category everyone complains it's to easy and the difficulty lies solely in killing the monsters fast enough to finish the event, while they often add stupidly overpowered attacks in the mix to make up for the easier enemies such as Encumbrance, Weakness, Death, Doom, or Zombie. In the second category everyone takes only PLD, MNK, and RNG, due to the fact that PLD can mitigate a ton of DMG, MNK has the highest HP and can take a lot of DMG, and RNG is able to do a ton of DMG from a distance without pulling hate which allows them to take no DMG. So long as content falls into these 2 categories, things won't change much.

MNK also holds to much utility, not only is it the DD with the highest DPS but it also has the most HP, a JA to boost it's and everyone else's HP, and JA that lets it be the best magical DD there is. That results in a job which is basically made to be perfect. Why bring a DRK when it's only doing DMG? A MNK does more magic based DMG than a DRK ever could hope to hold a candle to and DPS wise DRK falls behind a MNK so far as I know, not only that but the MNK will take more hits. The same thing goes to WAR, but WAR is even worse off with no magic damage. DRG can lower monster's DEF and has the highest Accuracy in the game which is an edge for it, while BLU has a lot of things it can do, but neither in the end surpass MNK either.

To fix this though they would have to buff every DD to have great magic DMG while also giving them all an HP boost and more utility abilities overall so that they don't become a MNK clone.

Tanaka was no better, he made worse content by far, you could argue he had more job balance but nothing has really changed for the jobs except for the new weapons, which admittedly MNK's was unbalanced by the amount of skill placed on it and how MNK works, but outside of that nothing has actually changed in the end. The thing that changed job balance the most was the fact that PD went away as being a viable solution to all our problems, back when PD & Embrava were the be all end all solutions we did things like Legion using them and a verity of DDs. If PD never existed I have no doubt that eventually MNKs and Mantra cycles would have become the norm there too, we just took till Adoulin for it to happen because it wasn't till Adoulin that PD really fell out of use. If anything I would say the jobs were less balanced under him in the end though because at least Matsui has introduced things that have helped balance some of the more broken jobs such as the Animators which made PUP Automatons better, the Blood Pact Recast II stat that has helped fix SMN up a bit, and so on. In all honesty I feel like they are more balanced than before but at the same time still broken, Tanaka wasn't better when it came to balance in my opinion but he wasn't much worse either.

This I agree with completely. The fact it's random is a massive disincentive to do it, that and the low drop rate on the battery which seems like its 1%... those drop rates never made anyone want to do a piece of content.

Keep in mind, they nerfed twilight scythe. Magic dmg scythe for drk. But they don't nerf mnk JA process for magic. They nerf blood weapon, making monsters resist it or immune to it. But they don't nerf monks JA or hundred fist. They don't let souleater gear stack but will let counter or store TP.

They won't give blu a sword with +150-200 blu magic, or potency or magic. There are many things they could do. But they nerfed drk way into the ground and buffed mnk to their being little to no point in playing other jobs. YOu won't see invites andbe laughed at.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

03-13-2014, 08:00 PM

it still doesn't do anything to change the already monopolizing demand for Paladins

Beatific ain't exactly PLD-only.

Selindrile

03-13-2014, 08:54 PM

What jobs do you put in the parties you create for endgame activities?

The good ones, just like everyone else, which is the point of his gripe that he needs to do something of the sort.

FaeQueenCory

03-13-2014, 09:06 PM

I have to point out that "balance" is 50% actual objective balance (which, for example, RUN is supposed to be balanced against PLD such that they are equivalent... But they aren't.) and subjective balance (job A only plz).
The subjective balance is based on human nature... And as we all know, humans are just pigs in clothing.
So it will take time for humans to stop being stupid about things like pt setup... (Ala when RUN actually IS comparable and interchangeable with PLD... Do you honestly think it'll be less than a year before the masses accept it in PLD's stead?)

And to be quite honest... There is and always has been only ONE content in this entire game that actually had 100% job balance: VW
That's it.
Every other thing to do always favored some job over another and this made the subjective balance flare up.
But VW?
You always benefited from having at least 1 of anything... When shouts ask for SMN in endgame content with equal frequency as PLD or WHM or BRD... THAT is a balanced content.

But this by no means makes VW necessarily GOOD content. (I realize that 99.99999% of humanity can't distinguish between "you are stupid" and "what you just said is stupid/your idea is stupid"...)
VW was an artificially prolonged content.
Unlike, say, dynamis wherein you're only real deciding factor is real luck. (Getting relic A vs B which you wanted)
VW extends it's life via having abysmal drops.
Sure, it's possible to have ALL dynamis items... But it can take years to get them. And then there's always the upgrades to them... Which requires more dynamis.
The ONLY thing that extended VW's life was the fact that drops were so bad and were good.
Had VW had the droprate of Delve... VW would have been completed as quickly and as easily as Delve is. (Most ppl I know have either everything from Delve or everything they want from it.)

Selindrile

03-13-2014, 09:25 PM

Game balance in an MMO is somewhat subjective, yes, however some content, and games are far closer to a desired distribution than FFXI, and for the record, VW wasn't 100% balanced by any rate, the distribution caused several jobs to be left out because they had very few procs or you could cover them from subjob, Thf, Bst, Pld (If not supertanking adds), Rdm(Completely nonexistent once they removed the Merit Procs) and you to want 2-3 Blms/Wars because they could cover a lot of procs but yes, there was absolutely much less job imbalance in it, than what we have today, and I was not nearly as concerned with job balance at those times as I am now....

That's not to say that the game was better overall then, this content is overall much more enjoyable to me than those days, and I do enjoy seeing the effort they're putting into adapting things and things feel "fresher" than have for many many years.... but they still miss the mark on balance, a lot.

Feary

03-13-2014, 09:40 PM

By your reasoning every DD with an RME was slapped in the face when Adoulin came out. You had a much longer wait before your dominance was challenged, so you really have nothing to complain about.

I think you're mistaking the word career for princess. No worries. It's a common mistake.

If skill is more important than gear then what the heck is your problem? It sounds like you just want to shut people out of your exclusive club or something.

You're calling him a Princess? really?

you have sat on this forum with other lazies whining to daddy (s.e) about unbalance. Preaching about how a job you dont play and job content you clearly dont understand is flawed since the other kids wont play with you because you dont have the same drive or shines they do.

On the other hand, he has played the game, admired s.e content, enjoyed his time on his job and earned the right to his abilities. You cant ask more of a player or a customer.
He get his stuff done and should be commended.

S.E will give you these instruments to shut you up since they probably figured they couldn't do anything else because of the system itself or time it would require to do.

the respectable players who can achieve in any endgame content will navigate through and come to their senses.

this new instrument wont matter because for these players, it will be either easy enough that all future career bards will eventually have it and shouts will change to "99 relic bards only"

or its too difficult to obtain and nothing will change. daurbs will still be easier to get.

any career bard or knowledgeable player knows +5 to songs like march mads and preludes are better than anything a 3rd song alone will give.

the working class player base will always be better than you, princess. this club you are mention is earned by hard work and dedication. Not given to lazies so if you want the fairness you seek, encourage people the play the content and make educated suggestions.

Olor

03-14-2014, 03:55 AM

I miss voidwatch if only because it was content where people actually wanted me to play on BLU. Now, ha ha ha... nothing.

[especially because the bar was not insurmountable - I just needed to have my spells, my skill capped and some MACC gear - and I could do my job - but now for current content people want you to be in the top 1% of players to participate... it is a real bummer]

Camiie

03-14-2014, 06:58 AM

You're calling him a Princess? really?

you have sat on this forum with other lazies whining to daddy (s.e) about unbalance. Preaching about how a job you dont play and job content you clearly dont understand is flawed since the other kids wont play with you because you dont have the same drive or shines they do.

On the other hand, he has played the game, admired s.e content, enjoyed his time on his job and earned the right to his abilities. You cant ask more of a player or a customer.
He get his stuff done and should be commended.

S.E will give you these instruments to shut you up since they probably figured they couldn't do anything else because of the system itself or time it would require to do.

the respectable players who can achieve in any endgame content will navigate through and come to their senses.

this new instrument wont matter because for these players, it will be either easy enough that all future career bards will eventually have it and shouts will change to "99 relic bards only"

or its too difficult to obtain and nothing will change. daurbs will still be easier to get.

any career bard or knowledgeable player knows +5 to songs like march mads and preludes are better than anything a 3rd song alone will give.

the working class player base will always be better than you, princess. this club you are mention is earned by hard work and dedication. Not given to lazies so if you want the fairness you seek, encourage people the play the content and make educated suggestions.

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/excuse_me_princess.jpg

radiationbots

03-14-2014, 09:33 PM

the working class player base will always be better than you, princess.
pffhffhahahhaha

this guy

Mefuki

03-14-2014, 10:20 PM

Post #83

Apologies Feary but I'm having a hard time understanding the point you were trying to make. Your post seemed a little scattered. Could you summarise?

detlef

03-15-2014, 03:38 AM

He has a lot of Empyrean weapons so we should probably take his opinion very seriously.

Addressing the comment that started this debate, any BRD with Carn and Ghorn should really have made Daurdabla 99 already. There's no excuse really. 99 your weapon if you want it to be taken seriously. The proposed instrument is only as good as the 90 version. The only way you should feel threatened is if they introduce something as good as the 99 version. Then you have permission to freak out.

They really have to do something about the situation because right now there are career BRDs with 4 songs and there are people who play it slightly less seriously and are only half as effective. Why not improve the situation so that anybody can be as good as BRDs were at level 90? If it makes you feel better, I'm sure that the new instrument will be too difficult to obtain for many players, and you'll still be able to properly look down upon them.

Firebert_Lakshmi

03-20-2014, 06:24 PM

Are there any plans to add instruments or a throwing weapon to the list of item level 117 RoE gear?

Kimjongil

03-20-2014, 07:30 PM

Calatilla

03-20-2014, 11:23 PM

I miss voidwatch if only because it was content where people actually wanted me to play on BLU. Now, ha ha ha... nothing.

Being asked to go BLU to VW wasn't playing BLU, you were just a BLM in a different outfit, the reason it was and still is difficult to find a BLU to do VW with is because nobody likes sitting in the back row on BLU. You're there for procs, nothing else.

Martel

03-21-2014, 12:08 AM

O think it is a smart move on SE to outdate 90 Ochains and instruments. I mean think about it, if your main job was brd or pld why should of you bought SOA? As a company SE wants to sell copies of the expansion, but there was nothing to offer a pld or brd. In addition they could just bought lvl 117 weapons on the AH. So to sell copies they should of had something to offer these two jobs long ago.

As a 119 R/E owner I did feel annoyed that I had to 119 my weapons but lvl 90 was ok for those two jobs.

Thank you SE.

Now just upgrade empy armor.

Except they haven't outdated Ochain in the slightest. Just narrowed the gap between it and the next best shield somewhat.

As a 90 Ochain owner, I'm annoyed that the upgrade to 99 is nearly pointless. And that there isn't even a 119 at all. -.- I'd much rather there have been some benefit to taking Ochain up to 99. But it's just not worth the gil just to get a few points of VIT and a bit more mp convert.

Selindrile

03-21-2014, 01:03 AM

Being asked to go BLU to VW wasn't playing BLU, you were just a BLM in a different outfit, the reason it was and still is difficult to find a BLU to do VW with is because nobody likes sitting in the back row on BLU. You're there for procs, nothing else.

I was happy to be whatever the party wanted on VW, playing on the back-line didn't mean I got any less rewards, I'd much rather "back-line Blu" than "not-invited Blu".

I remember back when Blu first came out, many, many times I'd end up going Blu/Whm and curing/debuffing, because there weren't enough Whms and Rdms to go around and it may not have been optimal but I remember it being far better than I expected the first time I tried it.

My only gripe about proc-blu was having to change my spells mid-fight to cover them all if I was the only one. >.>

But yeah, at the end of the day, I think most people just want to be able to participate in these events, even if they might not get to do it the way they want. I mean Schs are invited to Delve for stuns and nothing else, but I think generally they're happy to get to go at all, rather than just having nothing to do now that embrava's nerfed. And I'm pretty sure Smns long for the day when they got to Perfect Defense endgame things cuz at least that meant they got to go Smn even if they might've secretly wished they were there just do damage primarily instead of support.

Kimjongil

03-21-2014, 02:18 AM

Except they haven't outdated Ochain in the slightest. Just narrowed the gap between it and the next best shield somewhat.

As a 90 Ochain owner, I'm annoyed that the upgrade to 99 is nearly pointless. And that there isn't even a 119 at all. -.- I'd much rather there have been some benefit to taking Ochain up to 99. But it's just not worth the gil just to get a few points of VIT and a bit more mp convert.

I agree with you a 99 Ochain should have had more benefit over 90. Same for most empys. As an empy staff and club holder I feel II got shafted with WOE, and just unlock it. But If I was a pld what do I have to look forward to in SoA. Brd, same.

SO for those 90 shield and brd owners, the new gear is 30 lvls over what most of you have, as most are not 99. Of course it should be better.

Calatilla

03-21-2014, 02:19 AM

I was happy to be whatever the party wanted on VW, playing on the back-line didn't mean I got any less rewards, I'd much rather "back-line Blu" than "not-invited Blu".

I remember back when Blu first came out, many, many times I'd end up going Blu/Whm and curing/debuffing, because there weren't enough Whms and Rdms to go around and it may not have been optimal but I remember it being far better than I expected the first time I tried it.

My only gripe about proc-blu was having to change my spells mid-fight to cover them all if I was the only one. >.>

But yeah, at the end of the day, I think most people just want to be able to participate in these events, even if they might not get to do it the way they want. I mean Schs are invited to Delve for stuns and nothing else, but I think generally they're happy to get to go at all, rather than just having nothing to do now that embrava's nerfed. And I'm pretty sure Smns long for the day when they got to Perfect Defense endgame things cuz at least that meant they got to go Smn even if they might've secretly wished they were there just do damage primarily instead of support.

I agree with everything you said, I was just saying the reason it was and still is to a point, hard to find a blu for VW is because if you're on BLU you want to DD not be relegated to the backlines. If however you put in your shout that you already have 1 BLU, its much easier to find a 2nd blu. Spell swapping mid fight is a pain as you said, even more so when the DD`s just zerg everything then complain "y u no get white proc!" when u said 15 times, i need to set it.

Olor

03-21-2014, 02:56 AM

Being asked to go BLU to VW wasn't playing BLU, you were just a BLM in a different outfit, the reason it was and still is difficult to find a BLU to do VW with is because nobody likes sitting in the back row on BLU. You're there for procs, nothing else.

Yeah, I am aware of what my job was. Again, at least I'm invited ON BLU. I played my role, I played it well - would still rather be a proc star on BLU than playing on WHM or some other job I don't really like.

I was happy to be whatever the party wanted on VW, playing on the back-line didn't mean I got any less rewards, I'd much rather "back-line Blu" than "not-invited Blu".

I remember back when Blu first came out, many, many times I'd end up going Blu/Whm and curing/debuffing, because there weren't enough Whms and Rdms to go around and it may not have been optimal but I remember it being far better than I expected the first time I tried it.

My only gripe about proc-blu was having to change my spells mid-fight to cover them all if I was the only one. >.>

But yeah, at the end of the day, I think most people just want to be able to participate in these events, even if they might not get to do it the way they want. I mean Schs are invited to Delve for stuns and nothing else, but I think generally they're happy to get to go at all, rather than just having nothing to do now that embrava's nerfed. And I'm pretty sure Smns long for the day when they got to Perfect Defense endgame things cuz at least that meant they got to go Smn even if they might've secretly wished they were there just do damage primarily instead of support.

This. All of this. Would rather be invited on BLU to proc than not invited on BLU at all. It meant I could actually do the current endgame, on one of my favourite jobs. Versus now, when I don't get invited at all because I only have 2 songs on BRD and a BLU (without Tojil sword) and a BST

Calatilla

03-21-2014, 03:16 AM

I totally get what you're saying and I agree as I said, I didn't mind being a proc-blu to VW, sometimes I prefer it because I can just idle away in the background. But the point I`m trying to make is that a lot of BLU's will not reply to a shout asking for BLU because they don't want to be proc-blu they want to be DD BLU,which is why its difficult to find one.

If VW Procs were more like Abyssea procs, where it's just one spell per element it would be much easier to cover all procs with 1 BLU and still have potential to DD.

It would be nice to have more BLU's like you Olor, who are just happy to come BLU, but that isn't usually the case.

Olor

03-21-2014, 05:49 AM

yeah I honestly found it to be one of the most relaxing endgame activities because with spells set I was so gimp (especially /pld) that no one could possibly expect me to do anything but cycle procs and maybe use a AOE temp here or there

VoiceMemo

04-02-2014, 08:17 PM

So as a pro bard, you have nothing to fear then.

That is correct instrument wise I don't need to worry about replacing but my complaint is it's always nice to get something. When everyone else is getting something why not something, ANY upgrade, no matter how small for the rest. To be left out just because of SE's lack of forsight is unfair for those of us who did achieve such goals in game.

By your reasoning every DD with an RME was slapped in the face when Adoulin came out. You had a much longer wait before your dominance was challenged, so you really have nothing to complain about.

Yes I agree, EVERY DD that had RME was slapped in the face when Delve weapons were released. Again the players paid the price for SE's lack of forsight and understanding about how we the players viewed weapons and the reasons why we made RME's.

I think you're mistaking the word career for princess. No worries. It's a common mistake.

I Think I've worked very hard for the gear I have considering my IRL work schedule. Unless you know someone's IRL situation, in my opinion you have no right to criticize someone's gear choices.

I'm not saying everyone should be a RME brd. I'm not saying that everyone must do it. This is my opinion and I think I'm entitled to it. The forums are a way for me to post them and for SE to read them.

I will get to 99 Daurdabla, it's just a matter of time. The journey is what counts. The result is nice too, but I've known many relic holders that got their relic at 75(back in 75 cap days) then quit a few months after because they had nothing to do, nothing to strive for. I'm pretty sure this won't happen to me but the thought that I would have nothing to strive for for brd has crossed my mind.

If skill is more important than gear then what the heck is your problem? It sounds like you just want to shut people out of your exclusive club or something.

My point is again we shouldn't be left out on upgrades both Shield, Horn and Harp didn't get any upgrade when RME upgrades came out from SE's lack of forsight. Look at BRD Job points. SE clearly doesn't know what to do with brd because they didn't forsee adoulin coming out. Decreased casting time for songs sung under Soul Voice does not help. Most brds have 5/5 Nightingale which they already use under Soul Voice which is instant casting of songs.

VoiceMemo

04-08-2014, 09:35 PM

Greetings,

Instruments
In the April version update we will be introducing a new instrument that grants an additional song. As this effect is extremely powerful, it won't be so easy to obtain; however, we'd like this to be another option in addition to Daurdabla.

It won't be easy to obtain huh. I don't think SE understand the meaning of "It won't be so easy to obtain"

All you need to get it is 1 delve win from original 3, 1 win from the new 3, a win from difficult or very difficult SCKNM, Cehuetzi Pelt, Ebony Harp, Shofar, and 150 of Beititsu, Pluton, or Riftborn Boulder.

Some have already gotten the new harp in hours of update completion. How is this hard to get?

Yes it is limited to 3 songs but until SE fixes VW to make it more lowman friendly the ability to get HMP and Cinders, Daurdabla is hampered by the limited amount of people that actually still do voidwatch.

Olor

04-09-2014, 04:38 AM

Demonjustin

04-09-2014, 11:52 AM

It won't be easy to obtain huh. I don't think SE understand the meaning of "It won't be so easy to obtain"That or you don't, it's not like this is super easy for your average player...

All you need to get it is 1 delve win from original 3, 1 win from the new 3, a win from difficult or very difficult SCKNM, Cehuetzi Pelt, Ebony Harp, Shofar, and 150 of Beititsu, Pluton, or Riftborn Boulder.Ok, so lets assume you have a win already from an original Delve or from AAs, that leaves the Pelt, Harp, Shofar, and 150 items. Now, everything below is Phoenix prices.

Ebony Harp - 80~100k
Shofar - 250~300k
Cehuetzi Pelt - 7~7.8M
150 P/B/B - 10k or so each.

Add this all up, you get roughly 9M. I don't know about you but to me that seems like a lot of gil for a player without the ability to get into Delve or other pieces of high end content due to lack of a harp with the proper amount of songs able to be cast with it.

Some have already gotten the new harp in hours of update completion. How is this hard to get?Some people had New Delve wins within a day of release too, doesn't mean it was easy by any means, only that it's easy for those with the resources to obtain it...

detlef

04-09-2014, 12:29 PM

Uh these weapons are ridiculously easy to make. Even if you don't want to touch Delve at all, you can fulfill the quest prerequisites by completing a macrocosmic/microcosmic BCNM on difficult or by completing an Ark Angel fight on normal difficulty. That's it. Everything else can be bought. I think the estimate above of 9m is reasonable, and any player should be able to come up with this amount. Any player! Seriously guys, you can't complain about this one being too hard.

Demonjustin

04-09-2014, 01:58 PM

Too hard? No, I wouldn't dare, but to complain it's too easy would be equally as unreasonable to me.

detlef

04-09-2014, 02:27 PM

Too hard? No, I wouldn't dare, but to complain it's too easy would be equally as unreasonable to me.That guy is just salty cause he doesn't have a 99 harp.

The difficulty and cost of this new harp is just right, although if my only two choices were too easy versus too hard I'd lean toward easy.

VoiceMemo

04-09-2014, 07:51 PM

lol "easy to get" - as I said earlier - this harp will only be easy to get for the people that need it the least (AKA those people who already have all wins etc). Folks like me, who would like to help bard up the world, are completely locked out. I have 0 delve wins and, being in a small social shell and having limited playtime, I will be like that for awhile. Should have been something that folks not already finished with current endgame could get so you know, we could actually DO current endgame. Fail SE, fail.

Getting 1 win from 1st tier of delve or 1 win from 2nd tier of delve or 1 win from SCKNM on normal or very hard is hard? SE already gimped delve to be 6 manable with the HP reduction of NMs dependant on how many people enter. Unless this is the first year you've played you should have made a few friends by now that you could team up with to 6 man delves or 6 man SKCNM on normal.

With limited playtime(ie only able to play 3-4) days a week, I was able to gather all the alex to finish my mythic farming salvage. Though it took me 4 years to get all the alex having it, I consider it well worth the time spent.

Ok, so lets assume you have a win already from an original Delve or from AAs, that leaves the Pelt, Harp, Shofar, and 150 items. Now, everything below is Phoenix prices.

Ebony Harp - 80~100k
Shofar - 250~300k
Cehuetzi Pelt - 7~7.8M
150 P/B/B - 10k or so each.

Add this all up, you get roughly 9M. I don't know about you but to me that seems like a lot of gil for a player without the ability to get into Delve or other pieces of high end content due to lack of a harp with the proper amount of songs able to be cast with it.

As for the synthesis why not gather materials and contact people witht he required synthesis levels. Usually if you gather materials the synth price becomes much cheaper than the result. Yes you do have to risk the chance of failing the synth and the time it takes to gather the materials. But if you lack gil this is a viable alternative. Or you could farm items, sell and build the gil up to buy the result. There are many ways to the solution, it all depends on what you can do and what you are willing to do.

As for pluton/riftborn/beititsu. Records of Eminence has been out since Dec 11, 2013. IF you have done the limited time trials only once per day since that has been out you would have 119 vouchers as of April 8th. Limited time trials only take at most 30 min to complete(this was the seal one but now faster as all seals are counted) 119 vouchers is 59 of the relic reforge items. Over 1/3 the amount of the 150 requirement.

If it doesn't take time, it takes gil. This has always been the case. You either spend alot of time(FFXI is a game about the long term) or spend high amounts of gil to bypass the time requirement. Everything in the game can be accomplished with time.

You don't have to spend gil to get what you want, you can spend time. Keep trying, lead the runs and learn the strategies. Ask friends for help, this is a MMORPG that requires teamwork.

That guy is just salty cause he doesn't have a 99 harp.

As for my progress to 99 Daurdabla. As I tell others, why are you so concerned about MY gear. I'll get to 99 eventually but at my pace and my terms. If your so concerned about MY gear you should give me HMP and cinders. I choose not to rush because I've known so may people who back in the 75 days finished relic, used it for a month or so then quit the game because they had nothing left to accomplish. I doubt I'd quit but it has occurred to me that once I finish 99 Daurdabla, there really isn't anything left for me to do as brd. So what would be my motivation as brd.

Many things are way easier now. Back in '07-'09 when I was doing Gjallarhorn there still was dynamis hourglass cost. Dynamis still required alot of manpower to farm efficiently. Currency was 10k-12k each. If you want something work for it, make gil, get wins. Keep trying you may fail alot, treat each loss as a learning experience and build upon it. But above all keep trying. The journey is what counts and when you do get the wins, they will be that much more satisfying.

detlef

04-10-2014, 03:00 AM

As for my progress to 99 Daurdabla. As I tell others, why are you so concerned about MY gear. I'll get to 99 eventually but at my pace and my terms. If your so concerned about MY gear you should give me HMP and cinders. I choose not to rush because I've known so may people who back in the 75 days finished relic, used it for a month or so then quit the game because they had nothing left to accomplish. I doubt I'd quit but it has occurred to me that once I finish 99 Daurdabla, there really isn't anything left for me to do as brd. So what would be my motivation as brd.

Many things are way easier now. Back in '07-'09 when I was doing Gjallarhorn there still was dynamis hourglass cost. Dynamis still required alot of manpower to farm efficiently. Currency was 10k-12k each. If you want something work for it, make gil, get wins. Keep trying you may fail alot, treat each loss as a learning experience and build upon it. But above all keep trying. The journey is what counts and when you do get the wins, they will be that much more satisfying.I never would have had one inkling of what your gear was if you hadn't posted it for anybody to see. Look, you have a Ghorn 99 and a Carn 119. You should have a Daurdabla 99 already, and it should have been done before the Mythic. That's all there is to it. You simply cannot call yourself a career BRD, then make a Carn before finishing Daurdabla to 99, and then complain when SE introduces an easy 3-song alternative. It's just not logical. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

Also, just because you complete your BRD goals doesn't mean the game is over and you've won. Maybe you strive for perfect gear. Maybe you work on another job. Maybe you... cap job points? Someone I knew sponsored our LS dynamis for a year, finished his Yoichi, and then quit within a couple weeks. Don't be that guy, it's a slap in the face for whoever helped you.

As for your other point, I'm pretty much in agreement. The harp is pretty straightforward to make, and anybody can do it. Although unlike you, I think it should be that way. It means that I can make a harp on my mule. It means that others in my linkshell who are not RME BRDs can still play the job competently and I might get to come on something different. The reasonable baseline for the job just got a little higher and that's good for the playerbase as a whole.

Draylo

04-10-2014, 04:36 AM

Demonjustin

04-10-2014, 05:07 AM

Getting 1 win from 1st tier of delve or 1 win from 2nd tier of delve or 1 win from SCKNM on normal or very hard is hard? SE already gimped delve to be 6 manable with the HP reduction of NMs dependant on how many people enter. Unless this is the first year you've played you should have made a few friends by now that you could team up with to 6 man delves or 6 man SKCNM on normal.

With limited playtime(ie only able to play 3-4) days a week, I was able to gather all the alex to finish my mythic farming salvage. Though it took me 4 years to get all the alex having it, I consider it well worth the time spent.It's a Normal AA or a SKCNM on Very Hard, not a SKCNM on Normal. As for Delve, the fact they made it 6-man able made it harder to get wins, not easier, because anyone who doesn't have 119 weapons and the specific gear people want don't get in. No Oats? Nope, not allowed. No March+4? Nope, go away. It's not like that made it easier, if anything it restricted the content even more and strengthened an issue people were trying to escape.

As for the synthesis why not gather materials and contact people witht he required synthesis levels. Usually if you gather materials the synth price becomes much cheaper than the result. Yes you do have to risk the chance of failing the synth and the time it takes to gather the materials. But if you lack gil this is a viable alternative. Or you could farm items, sell and build the gil up to buy the result. There are many ways to the solution, it all depends on what you can do and what you are willing to do.

As for pluton/riftborn/beititsu. Records of Eminence has been out since Dec 11, 2013. IF you have done the limited time trials only once per day since that has been out you would have 119 vouchers as of April 8th. Limited time trials only take at most 30 min to complete(this was the seal one but now faster as all seals are counted) 119 vouchers is 59 of the relic reforge items. Over 1/3 the amount of the 150 requirement.

If it doesn't take time, it takes gil. This has always been the case. You either spend alot of time(FFXI is a game about the long term) or spend high amounts of gil to bypass the time requirement. Everything in the game can be accomplished with time.

You don't have to spend gil to get what you want, you can spend time. Keep trying, lead the runs and learn the strategies. Ask friends for help, this is a MMORPG that requires teamwork.None of this at all reduces the cost for the pelt which is the overwhelming majority of the cost for the overall item either.

As for my progress to 99 Daurdabla. As I tell others, why are you so concerned about MY gear. I'll get to 99 eventually but at my pace and my terms. If your so concerned about MY gear you should give me HMP and cinders. I choose not to rush because I've known so may people who back in the 75 days finished relic, used it for a month or so then quit the game because they had nothing left to accomplish. I doubt I'd quit but it has occurred to me that once I finish 99 Daurdabla, there really isn't anything left for me to do as brd. So what would be my motivation as brd.

Many things are way easier now. Back in '07-'09 when I was doing Gjallarhorn there still was dynamis hourglass cost. Dynamis still required alot of manpower to farm efficiently. Currency was 10k-12k each. If you want something work for it, make gil, get wins. Keep trying you may fail alot, treat each loss as a learning experience and build upon it. But above all keep trying.Your gear matters because it seems to be the one and only reason you continue to complain about a 3 song harp existing outside of Empyrean that isn't exactly as hard as you want it to be.

The journey is what counts and when you do get the wins, they will be that much more satisfying.The journey of making a Relic and/or Empyrean just to play a job has never been satisfying, it's always been stupid, thankfully we moved past a time when that was required for all jobs yet for some reason you seem to be against the update that actually gives BRD more of a chance of moving away from it finally too.

Olor

04-10-2014, 07:46 AM

All you ever do on these forums is complain complain complain. For someone who constantly moans about his playtime being limited, you should be spending less time on this forum complaining and more time actually playing....

a) I've made tons of constructive suggestions. Go check the trust forum for my suggestion on turning pankraton monsters into trusts. Or go check the ROE section for my suggestion on how to make missions easier to complete without leaving the game and having to read a wiki. You're complaining about my suggestions/concerns - which, frankly, adds nothing to any discussion.

b) I post when I am on lunch/coffee breaks at work, when I can't play XI. So thanks for the suggestion but it cannot be implemented.

c) I'm frustrated because I want to play BRD and with the way things currently are, I might as well not even have it leveled.

d) I'm a woman, thanks.

detlef

04-10-2014, 08:20 AM

Olor

04-10-2014, 10:29 AM

On my backwater server, Cehuetzi pelts are 8m currently. I expect that to dip another couple mil when all is said and done. But for now, it's pretty accurate to say that the harp costs 9m. Are you saying that 9m is too hard? Or are we arguing about being able to complete one of the prerequisites? Because you could easily earn that gil within 3-4 Dynamis runs.

Most I've ever earned in a dyna run is a few hundred K.... also I don't have the pre-req, nor a job that is welcome on one of those runs.

Look, I'm sure in a year or two when its no longer current content I might be able to get it, but looks pretty out of reach right now. The fact that people WHO DON'T NEED IT won't have a hard time getting it, doesn't make it easy content.

Mirage

04-10-2014, 11:21 AM

I feel pretty confident that you can manage to build a party that can complete a SKC10 battlefield on difficult. I've done SKC20s on normal with 4 players almost entirely in sparks gear (two of us had a few 109 AF pieces we reforged with tales bought with sparks). Throw in another DD and a bard to soul voice and I'm sure you can burn down one of those things on difficult without too much trouble.

Draylo

04-10-2014, 03:33 PM

Most I've ever earned in a dyna run is a few hundred K.... also I don't have the pre-req, nor a job that is welcome on one of those runs.

Look, I'm sure in a year or two when its no longer current content I might be able to get it, but looks pretty out of reach right now. The fact that people WHO DON'T NEED IT won't have a hard time getting it, doesn't make it easy content.

Few hundred k from a dyna run? You are doing it so wrong...

Mirage

04-11-2014, 03:10 AM

Yeah really. I'm not exactly the best dyna farmer but even I managed to get more than 700k per run even before we got item level gear.

Olor

04-11-2014, 03:53 AM

Yeah really. I'm not exactly the best dyna farmer but even I managed to get more than 700k per run even before we got item level gear.

I haven't gone since ilevel. I've been a bit busy - then I got addicted to pankraton, which is fun and doesn't require 2 hours time committment. While it might be more efficient now, there are also more people farming it... so it never seems worth it to enter.

I don't believe I can do AA because I haven't finished zilart. Am I wrong?

detlef

04-11-2014, 04:36 AM

Olor

04-11-2014, 05:53 AM

Have you considered finishing your Zilart missions? Although difficult SKC10/20 are easier anyway.

You should be able to rack up 250-300 singles per Dynamis run once you get the hang of it. It's very easy and the only issue really is overcrowding (which is a significant issue, but still).

Yeah been meaning to give it a try since finishing up my THF. Just need to upgrade the TH boots. I appreciate the encouragement.

VoiceMemo

04-11-2014, 07:57 AM

The journey of making a Relic and/or Empyrean just to play a job has never been satisfying, it's always been stupid, thankfully we moved past a time when that was required for all jobs yet for some reason you seem to be against the update that actually gives BRD more of a chance of moving away from it finally too.

If that was the case to give BRD a chance of finally moving away from it, why are people charging so much for the Cehuetzi Pelt. Yes I understand supply and demand but if others want more 3 song brds and they lack the gil to buy them at the high cost, the same result happens, lack of 3 song brds. Whenever I get one, I plan to just give them away to brds I know that arn't 3 song.

Gannon

04-11-2014, 08:02 AM

VoiceMemo

04-11-2014, 08:07 AM

I never would have had one inkling of what your gear was if you hadn't posted it for anybody to see. Look, you have a Ghorn 99 and a Carn 119. You should have a Daurdabla 99 already, and it should have been done before the Mythic. That's all there is to it. You simply cannot call yourself a career BRD, then make a Carn before finishing Daurdabla to 99, and then complain when SE introduces an easy 3-song alternative. It's just not logical. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

Where is it written that Daurdabla must be made to 99 before Carnwenhan is obtained? Do I not have the choice to go in the order I wish to? I said before that it'll get there but on MY terms. You saying that I should have done Daudabla before Carnwenhan and that I'm not a career brd is your opinion and your right to say so. But I've played brd some 9 years so I consider myself a career brd. The order of which that I complete items is my business and no one else.

As for quitting, it's unlikely that that would happen. Dynamis wise I've helped I believe at least 10 others since I've finished Gjallarhorn to complete relics. I go to team dyna runs just to help out, I solo dynamis and just give away all my currency to those that are working on it in my ls. But again that is MY choice, and others should respect my choice. Your welcome to disagree with the opinion but you should respect my choice in the matter since there is nothing written in stone telling you that you MUST do it this way.

Demonjustin

04-11-2014, 10:39 AM

If that was the case to give BRD a chance of finally moving away from it, why are people charging so much for the Cehuetzi Pelt. Yes I understand supply and demand but if others want more 3 song brds and they lack the gil to buy them at the high cost, the same result happens, lack of 3 song brds. Whenever I get one, I plan to just give them away to brds I know that arn't 3 song.SE's trying to give BRD another option, just because it's SE's intention to some workaround it doesn't mean players will exactly follow suit in all ways. The price is set by players, the items set by SE, and while they did knowingly add an expensive item to the requirements it's likely because of the very thing happening here, complaints. They made a 3 song harp and even though it's not too easy it's still being complained about. If they made it easier than this, it would only make things all the more inflammatory in the end, but this way there's an alternative we can get without it being too hard.

When you back up and look at the whole picture the whole RME lineup went through the same thing BRD now is, but it happened about a year ago, back when Delve first came into existence. Even now days RMEs only barely edge out their competition for many weapons, and that's if they win at all. Over this last year only 2 jobs have remained RME dependant, those jobs are BRD, and PLD. This served to aid those jobs in getting away from that paradigm and it worked fairly well to a large extent as the Shield is quite good so far as it seems to me, and the Harp fulfills a basic need of the current game without stepping on the toes of those who are truly dedicated to the job.

As for anything to do with your having Mythic rather than Empyrean 99, it's not a matter of what you have or saying you're not a career BRD but to me it's a serious show of a lack of judgement when by comparing the two you can easily tell that the Empyrean is miles ahead in the utility it provides your job in the end. An extra song vs the duration isn't even a question of which is more useful to the job and yet, you took the duration. The reason it was said you're not a career BRD is likely for this fact, the thought that a career BRD would make such a choice especially in light of how much better a 4th song is, is sort of sad.

To equate it to another job of a similar situation it would be similar to a PLD making a Burtgang before an Aegi. Anyone who does that for PLD would be ridiculed intensely because Aegis is so much more important and so powerful that it's foolish to make something so much weaker, even if powerful all the same, before it.

VoiceMemo

04-11-2014, 05:02 PM

As for anything to do with your having Mythic rather than Empyrean 99, it's not a matter of what you have or saying you're not a career BRD but to me it's a serious show of a lack of judgement when by comparing the two you can easily tell that the Empyrean is miles ahead in the utility it provides your job in the end. An extra song vs the duration isn't even a question of which is more useful to the job and yet, you took the duration. The reason it was said you're not a career BRD is likely for this fact, the thought that a career BRD would make such a choice especially in light of how much better a 4th song is, is sort of sad.

The choice of Carnwenhan before Daurdabla was more a time/manpower concern. I found it more time efficient. I was able to do salvage low man, 3-4 people vs having to get majority of procs for VW which requires more since lights are wanted for drops to help increase the chances of HMP/Cinders.

Of course I know that 1 more song would help more than duration BUT when it comes down to time/efficienty Salvage came out greater than Voidwatch. I try to not just buy my way to completion, I like to do the events for the actual items. That is why on my terms, IF I wanted to I could probably buy my way to 99, but I don't.

Demonjustin

04-11-2014, 09:11 PM

In that respect I most definitely agree with you.

Olor

04-18-2014, 04:53 AM

Can anyone recommend easiest micro orb fight to complete on difficult and some strategies (that don't require decked out PLD) to do it?

I was thinking worms turn with a three song brd (2X stone resist song, 1 ballad) and a WHM with proper barspell ability and maybe GEO, SCH, BLM, BLM?

Is there a reason straight up manaburn wouldn't work? Draw in maybe?

Also can the worms be slept at all by a competent bard or a good blu?

elqplau

05-16-2014, 03:08 AM

I am an old player my first update was ToU ive burned no jobs ive been to few aby parties one delve the gear i do have ive worked hard at getting it atm i use spark gear because if the stats RDM in the start was next to PLD in power now we cant get parties because we have been refresh/buff jobs RDM Maat fight was made diffucult because they took the melee away from RDM but left in that fight.. ive been solo sence the nurph i donot carry a staff as alot of others do...my merits are damage related not enfeebled if id wanted to play BRD mt BRD would be higher...those that burn their jobs then spend weeks casting protect on themselves should go back to WoW or which ever game they came from...if i wanted to do"end game" it would have been done already i was and still am an adventurer i walk the world killing if i can surving if i can i rely on 11 years of being the best RDM from the old order