Realistic Job adjustments wants!

[Sin]

Figured I start this also.

#3: New Job Ability's (Perfect Parry?! Incease damage/chance of Critical hit on next WS Ability, or Even Enhance duration of next Self benefiting Ninjutsu spell??)

#2: Adjustment/Additional Ninja Spells (Jubaku: Ni? anyone? Myoshi:Ni? Yunin: Ni? Yonin:Ichi with longer duration?!?!)

#1: WHY DONT WE HAVE A+ SKILL ALREADY? We are the ONLY job that can use Katana's! How are we not masters at them?

[Shaj]

Throwing Weapon Skills would be nice! As it is A-!

[Ezrin]

I agree to both, I don't see any reason as to why ninjas don't have A+ katana skill already. As for throwing weapon skills, I'm pretty sure SE stated a long time ago that they were considering on implementing them but who knows.

[Fearforever]

It would be nice to have stronger spells of our old versions, its so annoying using sneak (which last 3 mins) then tonko: Ni (which lasts 5) feels like a waste of tools.

Also we should be able to get Blind, Slow in San form and Parazle in Ni form

[FoxtheSly]

I'm actually quite surprised we haven't gotten Jubaku: Ni yet. I just knew we'd have it by 85. Anyway, I want a reason to level throwing skill. Give us a high damage returnable NIN-only throwing chakram, or cheap shurikens, and throwing WSs. You still got time to get it right, SE.

[Nidhogg]

Don't forget so soon about the announcements from the last Vana'fest about Catagory 3 merits at Lv.99

Jubaku:Ni Dokumori: Ni Kurayami: San and perhaps even Utsusemi: San are all possible canditates for the future merit system that we don't know that much about!

[Emdief]

A+ in katana skill, WS for throwing (and better/cheaper shuriken) and jubaku/monomi ni.

[Coldbrand]

I'd agree that it'd be cool if throwing weapons could become affordable enough that they'd finally become a major part of NIN's game. That or more rare/ex itemization for throwing weapons spread out across the levels, and rare/ex shurikens so it's not just all boomerangs or chakrams. A large fuma shuriken model would be cool.

[Izzybella]

5th shadow count doesn't show for Ni...4 shows for Ichi tho.

and I strongly agree with having an A+ weapon rating for katanas...I mean, c'mon!

[Shadobi]

I totally agree on NINJA Weapon skill (Throwing).

Would also Like Smoke bomb ninja tool (escape or warp) wishful thinking but that just me.

[Catsby]

Jubaku Ni.
Migawari lasting longer than 60 seconds.
A decent arsenal of ranged weapons.
More INT/ Magic Atk Bonus gear.

[Killercat]

I agree with Jubaku or even other Ni spells. But why Kurayami: San? Kurayami: Ni has the same effect as a fully merited Blind II on RDM. So I think this one is ok.

Skill ratings sure need to be fixed. As being said Ninja is the only job that can use Katana it just don't feel right to have A- there.

For Shuriken... really want to use them, but the good ones are so expensive and doesn't even stack to 99. It feels like you throwing with gold nuggets.

[Usukane]

5th shadow count doesn't show for Ni...4 shows for Ichi tho.

and I strongly agree with having an A+ weapon rating for katanas...I mean, c'mon!

I would love to see a 5 Shadow count on the icon. ^^

[Nikia]

Jubaku: Ni, Utsusemi: San, Elemental Nukes T4, Monomi: Ni, Dokumori: Ni.
A+ in katana is a must!!!!
I really want to see dispel, sleep, bind ninjutsu...
Someone said a self haste.. that would be nice but rather have crowd control spells.

[Mojo]

I don't think that a throwing weaponskill is necessary. Players have been asking for this for years but honestly it seems quite random probably overpowered considering that there are already throwing weapons with DMG ratings of 250 in the game. I do think that a practical means to obtain shurikens would be nice though. Right now the best it gets is Koga Shurikens. They only come in small amounts from quests that nobody does anymore. Newer shurikens obtained via synergy would be fun.

Another improvement I would like to see is giving ninja the critical attack bonus trait. Innin and Iga back/body both enhance critical hit rate while Iga neck increases critical hit damage. Naturally I was expecting to see ninja receive this trait (along with other jobs like thief.) However, ninja ended up getting mostly useless traits like Tactical Parry, Magic Burst Bonus, and Skillchain Bonus. I found it quizzical that they got those instead of critical attack bonus.

[Fetus]

#3: New Job Ability's (Perfect Parry?! Incease damage/chance of Critical hit on next WS Ability, or Even Enhance duration of next Self benefiting Ninjutsu spell??)

I don't think that Ninja needs any new job abilities. Ninja is not Monk or Warrior nor does it need job abilities like Impetus or Blood Rage to function well. It is also not Scholar and giving it a Perpetuance-like job ability is laughable. The only thing you could use it on with any practical applicability would be Migawari, Monomi, Myoshu or Tonko... and who cares about extending the duration of Invisible or Sneak... so you're left with a mostly useless job ability. Pass.


#2: Adjustment/Additional Ninja Spells (Jubaku: Ni? anyone? Myoshi:Ni? Yunin: Ni? Yonin:Ichi with longer duration?!?!)

I mostly agree with you here. Jubaku: Ni and Dokumori: Ni are long, long overdue. I find it odd that almost every Ninja-type monster in the game can use these spells but even at level 90, players still cannot. At some point in the distant past, I could see the introduction of these spells as being overpowering tools in the NIN arsenal, but not any more. We all know RDM are the best users of enfeebling magic... it's impossible to beat them at it... they were almost exclusively designed for it. There isn't any real reason anymore that NIN needs Jubaku: Ni or Dokumori: Ni sans wanting to cast Jubaku or Dokumori faster. That's good enough for me, though.

By the way, Yonin is not a ninjutsu spell.


#1: WHY DONT WE HAVE A+ SKILL ALREADY? We are the ONLY job that can use Katana's! How are we not masters at them?

Thief has a A- rating in Dagger skill level. How is Thief not a master of using daggers or knives? Ninja isn't the only job in the boat of oddities. Have you seen Bard? You seem to forget that the beauty of Ninja is that no other job has as many A- ratings as Ninja does. Ninja is fine. Ninja is golden. Does it make narrative sense for Ninja to have a A+ rating in Katana skill level or Ninjutsu skill level? Yes. But is having either going to be a noticeable change for Ninja? Doubtful.

If anything, Ninja needs some job trait improvements. Critical Attack Bonus would have been a very nice addition, but for some reason, SE gave it to WAR/THF/DNC/DRK, instead. While I can justify WAR/THF/DNC (at least in my mind), I'm still oblivious as to why they gave DRK this job trait.

Ninja could make very good use out of Critical Attack Bonus and/or Quick Magic. A job trait that makes Yonin or Innin effective regardless of positioning during the day/night would be world-class, too. For example, the job trait would make Yonin effective from any position during the day. Conversely, it would make Innin effective from any position during the night. It upsets me that I spent so much time building a fantastic offensive ninjutsu set and that I never get to embrace the full potential because I can never use Innin for more than one :Ni or :San spell due to constant mob turning, etc.

Ninjutsu damage could use another boost. While the previous enhancements to the damage-capacity of elemental ninjutsu was noticeable and much appreciated, the damage is still paltry outside of Abyssea and against most NM within Abyssea as well. Blowing up EXP mobs inside of Abyssea is a blast, but trying to land a similar amount of damage per :Ni or :San nuke on any NM is frustratingly difficult. Everybody loved the update to ninjutsu. Do it again. That's my vote.

Also, Ninja is in dire need of offensive spell-casting equipment, but that's not really a "job adjustment", just a observation and a want. Besides two Sekka +2, Iga Tekko +2, Hecate's Earring and maybe Koga Hatsuburi +1, there isn't anything really noticeable or "WOW!" that NIN can wear to improve their offensive ninjutsu abilities. The Yasha set has always been pretty bad unless you're only looking for Spell Interruption Rate reductions or Enmity.

We all know NIN can melee. It's great at it. So are a dozen other jobs. But NIN is constantly overlooked as a potential magic damage-dealer... and when you actually have the gear for it (what little gear there is), you can do pretty extreme amounts of damage... but only in Abyssea, which is disappointing.

[Quetzacoatl]

I don't think that a throwing weaponskill is necessary. Players have been asking for this for years but honestly it seems quite random probably overpowered considering that there are already throwing weapons with DMG ratings of 250 in the game. I do think that a practical means to obtain shurikens would be nice though. Right now the best it gets is Koga Shurikens. They only come in small amounts from quests that nobody does anymore. Newer shurikens obtained via synergy would be fun.

250 DMG? The only weapons that have those are Sky god winds, and only one can drop from each God. There's not much sense in going by that claim, especially when we don't have something like Unlimited Shot to exploit weapons like that. Personally, adding Throwing Weapon skills would add something new to the job as far as ranged DD goes. I do agree that we need more practical means of obtaining shuriken though.

[Mojo]

My main suggestion to elemental ninjutsu would be to shorten the casting time for San spells down to 1.00 seconds (from 2.50) It's silly when the Ni spells result in a higher DoT than the San spells because of this (not to mention making casting them somewhat impractical and wasteful anyways because you lose out on so much katana DoT.) I'm content with the damage they do although most of the gear that improves it is kind of hard to come by.

[Sin]

Directed at Fetus.

Really you wasted that much your time? Writing a essay trying to bring negativity to someone post?
Yunin: Ichi was obviously suppose to be Yurin:ichi but I guess thats one of those Ninja spells you don't use because Ninja is already to "good"? On the other hand I said why don't ninja have A+ katana, because we are the only job that can use them. Almost all melee jobs in FF have at lease 1 A+. Daggers can be use by many jobs and *Cought* thief have A+ Evasion!



P.S. I really don't care for Ninjutsu damage it will never be able to take cake over Blm which is a elemental damage job! Our tools are mainly used to weaken and exploit a enemy. Ninja is a tank/DD and has been since the beginning. We only seen light the last 6 months but before that it was a dead job for 3+yrs if you disagree ask anyone in FFXIAH Top Ls list on your server.

This post is simply to give SE if they do indeed intend on reading this some general idea's that we would want done to our job to improve it.

Oh yea... A+ doesn't matter? um thats 8 Acc 8 att and back before abyssea... That was um...............kind of a big thing

[Fetus]

Directed at Fetus.

Really you wasted that much your time? Writing a essay trying to bring negativity to someone post?
Yunin: Ichi was obviously suppose to be Yurin:ichi but I guess thats one of those Ninja spells you don't use because Ninja is already to "good"? On the other hand I said why don't ninja have A+ katana, because we are the only job that can use them. Almost all melee jobs in FF have at lease 1 A+. Daggers can be use by many jobs and *Cought* thief have A+ Evasion!



P.S. I really don't care for Ninjutsu damage it will never be able to take cake over Blm which is a elemental damage job! Our tools are mainly used to weaken and exploit a enemy. Ninja is a tank/DD and has been since the beginning. We only seen light the last 6 months but before that it was a dead job for 3+yrs if you disagree ask anyone in FFXIAH Top Ls list on your server.

This post is simply to give SE if they do indeed intend on reading this some general idea's that we would want done to our job to improve it.

Oh yea... A+ doesn't matter? um thats 8 Acc 8 att and back before abyssea... That was um...............kind of a big thing

There was nothing negative about my post. If you think so, then you think so, but I think you're being overly defensive. Not sure why you're taking stabs at how I apparently play Ninja. Of course I know what Yurin is. It's not my fault you made typos and are too lazy to use the edit tool.

You're missing the point about Ninja having numerous A- skills. It's makes them well-rounded, diverse and survivable. And I said it made narrative sense for NIN to have A+ ratings in obviously NIN-onry skills. But they don't, so get over it. It's not like +8 Accuracy and +8 Attack will make any sort of difference now. If it is making some sort of game-breaking difference to you, then you're not doing something right.

If you've not tried building a set of equipment to use elemental ninjutsu, I suggest you try it. With proper atmas and the available gear to be had, it's quite easy to do 1000+ damage per :Ni nuke. Considering the fast casting times of :Ni ninjutsu, it's so easy to outdamage everybody, mage or melee.

I made my suggestions. Don't turn this into a amateur flamefest.

[Sin]

There was nothing negative about my post. If you think so, then you think so, but I think you're being overly defensive. Not sure why you're taking stabs at how I apparently play Ninja. Of course I know what Yurin is. It's not my fault you made typos and are too lazy to use the edit tool.

You're missing the point about Ninja having numerous A- skills. It's makes them well-rounded, diverse and survivable. And I said it made narrative sense for NIN to have A+ ratings in obviously NIN-onry skills. But they don't, so get over it. It's not like +8 Accuracy and +8 Attack will make any sort of difference now. If it is making some sort of game-breaking difference to you, then you're not doing something right.

If you've not tried building a set of equipment to use elemental ninjutsu, I suggest you try it. With proper atmas and the available gear to be had, it's quite easy to do 1000+ damage per :Ni nuke. Considering the fast casting times of :Ni ninjutsu, it's so easy to outdamage everybody, mage or melee.

I made my suggestions. Don't turn this into a amateur flamefest.

I'm not trying to make this a flamefest, but saying how someone suggestions are stupid or not needed is what most people call insulting or Trolling. While reading someone opinion on adjustments to spells and seeing Yunin I think its easier to think of the word Yurin and not Yonin after all its the English language and we assume the word within the first three letters. Also if you go back to Ninja forums and click on Post yourGear sets you see mine there and see I do not need to spam Ni tool's especially since most Nm's have what we call Magic Damage -30%+. Even AAA Blms have difficulty doing over 2500+ damage on Tier5 Blizzard.

[hadeed]

well I would like NINja to have throwing WS , it would be really nice to have , it doesnt need to be something high damage like ranger its just debuffing or buffing would be nice , also the Shurikin ( maybe spelling wrong sorry ) I see no point of having it in the game, very hard to get and then even if you have it the use of it not that great because it doesnt add anything just losing your money. but if You use throwing WS to buffing for example the Steps system in Dancer , you throw up to 5 Shurkin and that will buff for example the next coming Fire Skill Chain ? at this time i think wasting my shurkin will be more useful if there is no WS for throwing.


the path that SE made to boost the NINja ninjtsu damage is really good , would like more to put into it , its like more alternatives for the player , make it more useful . I know Debuffing is for the RDM path so no problem , Ninja can take other bath NInja can be the jack of all trade like RDM but as melee class , like lets say adding Ancient Ninjtsu ? some ninjtsu that take long casting similar to Blue Mage Magical spells that does massive damage , or a Physical Ninjtsu like the Physical Blue magic that be casted fast .

its all my imagination lol. well i know Japanese are better in this because its their classes anyway , Ninja and SAM , they can be creative , i know its cheesy but the games meant to be cheesy to have fun , like now in Abyssea with the damage and all , so why not , it will be great to add all the good special feeling in the classes , I would like to see that

Also please dont flame me , this forums is for sharing stuff , obviously i cannot balance the game because i am not in development team , i am just player who wants to enjoy the game and wants to play my class as it should be and i know people would love to see ninja do those stuff in the game !

cheers ~

[Fetus]

I'm not trying to make this a flamefest, but saying how someone suggestions are stupid or not needed is what most people call insulting or Trolling. While reading someone opinion on adjustments to spells and seeing Yunin I think its easier to think of the word Yurin and not Yonin after all its the English language and we assume the word within the first three letters. Also if you go back to Ninja forums and click on Post yourGear sets you see mine there and see I do not need to spam Ni tool's especially since most Nm's have what we call Magic Damage -30%+. Even AAA Blms have difficulty doing over 2500+ damage on Tier5 Blizzard.

You can go back and re-read, but I never said any of your suggestions were stupid. Also, it's not like my :Ni nukes are only doing 100 damage. They typically range between 500-700 on Mega Bosses unless the target has ridiculously high INT or extreme magic damage reduction via traits, TP abilities or whatever else.

[Pesh]

The major adjustment I'd like to see is Yonin/Innin lose the shared timer and drop to 1 minute similar to Hasso/Seigan.

SAM are able to switch offensively and defensively on the fly and they're big and clunky. Why can't the agile NIN do the same?

[Ezrin]

The major adjustment I'd like to see is Yonin/Innin lose the shared timer and drop to 1 minute similar to Hasso/Seigan.

SAM are able to switch offensively and defensively on the fly and they're big and clunky. Why can't the agile NIN do the same?


This ^^ I don't see why Yonin and Innin share timers, I mean look at SAM, Hasso/Seigan just overwrite each other. Also WAR can be used as another example, they have Berserk/Defender that just negate the effects of each other out.

[FoxtheSly]

Concerning Yonin/Innin, I'd like to see the position requirements removed.

[Icefloe]

I too would like a ninja throwing skill. However, unless they make stars more accessible/easier to craft, it just probably will never happen.

[Rambus]

Ill sign for throwing weaponskills

[Bulrogg]

Here is a copy of an e-letter I sent to FFXI devs via the old POL option back in 2007. If this was a Windows 7 commercial I would be Windows 7 because I so called tactical parry. :p


When will NIN get Throwing Weaponskills and bundle stacks for shruikens i.e. the way arrows/bolts, tools, stones are bundled and stacked?

Jubaku: Ni ........ come on now.

You know what would really be cool, if NIN got TP for successful Parries.

Would also be nice if NIN could unlock all 6 Sans and Tool Expertise.

Just tossing it out here but you remember when Utsu used to block -agas; how it would only consume one shadow? You should make it that way again but only NIN main. When /NIN -agas would wipe all shadows. You could also make /NIN Utsu like Blink i.e. there's a chance it wouldn't block the spell/attk.

just my 2 gil on the NIN subject.... guess I'm kinda looking for a NIN job adjustment. You keep tweaking PLD and w.legs pretty much put us NIN out of kiting jobs since AF isnt all day. Should make AF 1 and Relic 1 all day or extended past dusk-dawn; have it active from 14-9 with 5 hours of down time.

Come on, hook a neenja up!

oh yeah what was this 'new and deadly ninjutsu' that i read about a few updates ago? Was it referring to the Clone jutsu used by the aht urgh mobs? Just another jutsu we'll never see eh? *cough*Jubaku:Ni*cough*

Some of the stuff kinda seems meh now, I was just on a antiPLD rant back then... but I would like to still see Throwing WS and more affordable, bundlable too, shurikens.

It would be nice if Yonin/Innin weren't shared timer but were more like Hasso/Seigan timers. Yes?

It would be pretty cool if NIN had an ability like that of Sange but the Shadows would produce a clone and it's attack power would be equal to the number of shadows used or something of the like.

...and that's my two gil on the subject.

[Hawk]

Yonin/Innin should lose their position requirement. They should also lose their shared timer and each have a recast of 1 min.

New JA: Perfect Parry. 1 min recast, 30 sec duration. Just like Perfect Counter. Useful for getting Shadows up/casting an Ichi spell.

New JA: 2 min recast, 1 min duration. Doubles the length of your next self buff ninjitsu.

New JT: Critical Hit Bonus.

New JT: Evasion Bonus (Not as many as thf, but giving us a few would be nice)

Skill increase: Katana to A+, Throwing to A+

New Spells: Jubaku: Ni, Hojo: San, Kurayami: San, Monomi: Ni, Migawari: Ni, Utsu: San, Elemental wheel tier 4

Migawari adjustment: Ichi duration changed from 1 min to 3 min. Ni duration would be 5 min.

Cheap and good Shurikans. Make them stack to 99. Make them craft-able and buy-able at an npc.

Throwing Ws. Can make them some debuff mob in new ways. 1 - 2 that can be good damage ws (A reason to get Sange)

[Nemesio]

Seeing as Kannagi isn't hard to get, I feel like a throwing weaponskill would be dumb. Seeing as that would cut into damage to much. As well as no longer being able to use a ranged/ammo slot for anything useful.

[AyinDygra]

Here are a few ideas I've had, based on past SE comments about the direction they want to take Ninja.

New Job Ability: Image Trickery
Duration: 30seconds
Recast: 2min
The Ninja uses shadow images to change the appearance of the other party members so the enemy thinks all actions are done by the ninja. (no graphic changes needed in-game)
* All enmity created by any party member during this ability is given to the Ninja.
* Enmity gained depends on the party's actions.
* Requires at least 1 utsusemi shadow to be active to gain enmity from another's actions.
* Hate reducing abilities used during this effect do not impact the ninja's enmity. (High Jump and Super Jump do not reduce the Ninja's enmity, for example. Thief's Accomplice type abilities should have no effect on the ninja)

---

New Ninjutsu: Smokescreen
Duration: 30 seconds (can be canceled)
Recast: 1 min
The ninja throws a smoke bomb that creates a thick cloud of smoke, obscuring the ninja from view.
* Drops all enmity while in effect.
* When the effect wears off, more enmity is gained than was shed. (amount enhanceable through enmity+/- merits/gear)
* Enmity gained from the Ninja's offensive actions during the effect is not "gained" until the effect wears off.
* The sairui-ran tool may be used for this ninjutsu in addition to Kurayami.

---

New Job Trait: Fade
When a Ninja takes physical damage, their evasion increases for a brief time.
Tier 1 Level 20: +5 evasion
Tier 2 Level 40: +10 evasion
Tier 3 Level 60: +15 evasion
Tier 4 Level 80: +20 evasion

* It's +5 per tier, total of 20, not 50 (just in case there's any confusion)
* This is a very short effect, but it should last long enough to help evade at least the next enemy attack.
* Gear could be added to enhance Fade's duration and amount of evasion.

[Airget]

@ AyinDygra

I'd be for those 3 abilities, they work well for what Ninja is suppose to be and Fade does have a sense as to how a ninja may react when getting hit.
--
On the topic of Jubaku: Ni though we probably wont' get it unless they add a new form of paralyze to RDM. Jubaku: NI would be to overpowered and take away from the RDM ability to enfeeble. As a good example even with 370 ninjutsu skill my jubaku: ichi can land on an ice/tiger based NM with little trouble while even a fully merited RDM with 400 enfeebling skill may see trouble trying to land paralyze 2 on the same mob.

While we did get Blind/Slow ni I can understand why SE has yet to release paralyze. This is why we've received Player unique jutsu in an attempt to add new strategy towards the types of enfeebles we can land to make use more unique. With that in mind though it would've been wiser if they just gave us the ni forms of those rather the ichi since it does make it harder to actually make use of them.

We were given Aisha, which is like Bio. Yurin which is basically a Penance effect in jutsu form and doesn't seem to stack with the MNK ability. Miyoshu which acts as another form of subtle blow.
--

As for removing the Yonin/Innin placement for it to take effect I'd also have to disagree with that. It would increase NIN's dmg by to much and take away from the strategic standpoint they are suppose to be used for, if you wanna tank face the mob and Yonin, if you wanna deal more dmg and have someone else tank put up Innin and fight from behind. While I do understand some strategies may have you tanking the mob from behind you just need to adapt to the fact that you can't make use of Yonin in those situations.

It would however be nice if they did change th recast time of them at least, maybe not like hasso/seigan but even cutting it in half so that we don't have to wait such a long period in case it gets dispelled.

To me removing the placement requirement from Yonin/Innin would be like removing the SAM's Overwhelm and THF's Ambush placement requirements, while they are good abilities you have to use them properly to make use of them.

To be honest I like how NIN is now, the changes they made with jutsu damage and addition of new JA has really fleshed out to make it more unique. If there was one thing I'd like to see however it would be the ability to counter when making a successful parry, they are so far and few in between at times that it be nice if it did more then give you 1-2 TP lol.

[Fetus]

Jubaku: NI would be to overpowered and take away from the RDM ability to enfeeble.

False. It does nothing to RDM enfeebling. This isn't 2007.

RDM has access to:
-Enhanced Saboteur
-Enhanced enfeebling magic potency
-Tons of MND/INT
-Tons of magic accuracy
-Tons of enfeebling magic skill
-Loads of Fast Cast

Tell me, exactly, how Jubaku: Ni will do anything to RDM?

[Snprphnx]

Job Ability : Shadow Attack
Recast - 10 mins

-Upon using, all remaining shadows gain the ability to attack, with the same stats as the player currently has (atk, acc, eva, etc), with the exception of only having 10% of the players max HP.
-shadows gain 100% enmity increase
-player can not recast any Utsusemi spell while any shadows remain active

[Mizzou]

@Snprphnx - I've predicted this JA at lv99 since we found out of the level cap increase. Some mission mobs (not to worry, I'm not giving any spoilers) have this ability which is not unlike SE to show moves via mobs before players can use.

[Shin-Tsuchinoko]

On the note of Yonin/Innin placement. It would be nice to make a JA, trait, or spell to ignore placement for a short time. For example if the Enemy changes position and or moves around. You can use Tsukiyomi(just using a name that uses dark/light attributes) to regain or control the enmity that is running around. Or use Ninjutsu and any location within a certain time limit(if it was a trait it would say "occ. ignores position").

On another note, an offensive Dark and light ninjutsu would be nice, even if it doesn't fit the Elemental wheel, the -30 dark resistance would be good for Kurayami.

[Bulrogg]

I do like the idea of a JA Perfect Parry. I don't know if they could make it to include a counter attack but that would be be interesting to see. Maybe also include a bigger bonus to Tactical Parry.

Something else that would be nice. A Job Trait for when Ninja is set as main job to make Utsusemi able to absorb AOE magic and attacks with one or more shadows and do reduced damage if all shadow are used to absorb the attack. Basically for Utsusemi to act like it used to.

[Sama]

Would also Like Smoke bomb ninja tool (escape or warp) wishful thinking but that just me.

Awesome idea! Like a 0.5 second casting time warp to outside enemy atk range.

[Fearforever]

Alot of these Ja's and spells look good, it only makes sence that Ninja is ment to be a stealthy fighting job so why not have the ability to smokescreen yourself out for a moment to recast shadows etc.

[Panthera]

I'll jump on the Jubaku: Ni and Utsusemi: San Bandwagon.

[Superchicken]

don't think you will ever see Utsu San as with nin af3 boots you get 5 and 4 shadows

I think paralyze NI will come in next merits.

I also thought ninja should get some kind of sleep spell or something like hide that thf has. I mean ninjas are suppose to be sneaky and able to vanish or go undetected so gives a vanish ability

throwing WS's is a must if you ask me

what i'm really looking forward to is the statement SE made about increasing the skill up rate of parry and guard. 285 parry skill and playing ninja all day long and seeing maybe a 1 lvl skill up per day is depressing

[Fetus]

I'll jump on the Jubaku: Ni ... Bandwagon.

Right. Because something people have wanted for years is suddenly bandwagon. Or it's just getting more attention because SE gave us an official place to make ourselves heard.

[Gakaroth]

I would love to see a 5 Shadow count on the icon. ^^

AF3+2 shoes give the extra shaddow, making it not dissimilar to Utsu San, turns ichi into 4 shaddows, ni into 5

[Fetus]

AF3+2 shoes give the extra shaddow, making it not dissimilar to Utsu San, turns ichi into 4 shaddows, ni into 5

That's not what he's talking about.

[Vrbas]

A+ Katana skill <Yes Please>

[NightBear]

Lets be reallistic about all this JA's and stuff I read so far. NIN only needs 1 thing, Ni version of the Ichi spells we got after 75, nothing more. If you cannot perfor the job well as is, if you have a hard time keeping hate, keeping shadows up,getting hit, then that means this is not the job for you. It makes me sad/angry that back in 2007-eary 2010 you could count the amount of NIN players on any event around: Merit groups, Dynamis , Sky , Sea, Limbus, etc. Why? beocuse NIN was a complex job to play back them before Abyssea came out, In order to keep hate of 2handers you had to be good at keeping hate with your tools, WS sets, and JA's, chosing the right sub job for the right situation. If you think you need 10 clones to attack a mob.. go play Naruto games, If you think you need more evasion after you get hit.. go level THF and get an evasion set, If you think you need a throwing WS.. go level RNG. While the need of Ni spells for Yurin,Miwagari,Yubaki,Myoshin is needed badly ( becouse by the time you enfeeble an enely already lost 40% of its HP) San spells are versions are not. If you can't land your Ni spells as is then something is wrong with you ninjutsu gear set. If you need warp as a tool..then having 10 Conquest point warp scrolls,Warp sticks,Warp items from events,Teleporting rings, and your 2hr should just disapear no? . Yes I sound full of anger but if you jumped from the SAM bandwagon to NIN becouse its easy on abyssea and still want all this "Reallistic JA's" get real play the job right.

P.S. Yes I was a NIN since 2007 and always played NIN when it was needed. Some mobs are better off to be left alone for your fellow PLD's.

Edit: Katana skill A+? We are the only job with 4 A skills, and able to weild a GK too, Torque,AF3, Merits should be enough katana skill to be Q.Qing about not having A+

[Superchicken]

If you think you need a throwing WS.. go level RNG.

What's RNG have to do with a throwing WS. last time i checked RNG didn't have a throwing WS but guess what they have archery and marksmanship AND weaponskills for axe, dagger, etc. So what's wrong with having a couple throwing WS's for a ninja? No one said they had to be super duper powered up WS's but since alot of ninjas carry boomerangs, chakrams, because of the stat bonus some provide and heaven forbid may need to range attack something to pull it, or to make use of some of the nice dmg a nice shuriken has. If you really think about, whats the use of having throwing skill if theres no WS to go with it. Oh i know cause that throw you use to pull a mob to camp needs to hit right? Oh and theres Sange or w/e its called that you can merit on ninja, cause with the availability of the highest dmg shuriken sange is so sought after by nins right? With no throwing weaponskill theres really no reason have skill associated with throwing. The only real things throwing skill would even matter would be throwing winds at sky gods, but who does sky anymore and at lvl 90 who even cares about throwing the wind at it, or throwing the ash at Ixion cause i think it has to hit to claim him but not sure and if doesn't have to hit proves my point even more or the actually usefulness of even having throwing skill in the game if theres no weaponskills to go with it. And even throwing at sky gods or Ixion who uses a nin to do it anyway, most would use a RNG to unlimited shot the throw and sharpshot for increased racc

[Fetus]

5 A- skills, NightBear. Katana, Throwing, Parrying, Evasion and Ninjutsu. More than any other job. So if everyone would stop crying about not having A+ Katana skill, that'd be great.... it's not even worth whining about. Ninja doesn't need Utsusemi: San by any stretch of the imagination. Ninja also doesn't need to be tainted by Naruto anymore, so if you could cut it out with that crap, awesome. It's like 2/3 of you aren't even thinking about what you type before you type it.

[Bulrogg]

I totally forgot Naruto was in the game.
I guess he trained Kagetora (S) (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Kagetora_(S)) and Hundredfaced Hapool Ja (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Hundredfaced_Hapool_Ja). Because that's (Naruto) totally where we all got the idea of having shadow clones from Utsusemi and not those two NPC mobs.
Nor was it the three year old post from POL regarding 'New Mercenary Ranks and Assault Missions' (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/1549/detail2.html).

.....proceed with extreme caution. We have received reports indicating that these ninjas wield mysterious and deadly forms of ninjutsu.

I think allowing the PC's to use some form of this ninjutsu might have some nice role to play in game. Imagine if you could pop out your shadows as clones through a JA and then when they are killed or released you gain all of the Enimity/TP/HP that they had prior to the point of release. (Now yeah, I did kinda take that from Naruto where he learnt how to power level train himself) tainted love, oh oh oh oh....:p

[Ezikiel]

Here are a few ideas I've had, based on past SE comments about the direction they want to take Ninja.

New Job Ability: Image Trickery
Duration: 30seconds
Recast: 2min
The Ninja uses shadow images to change the appearance of the other party members so the enemy thinks all actions are done by the ninja. (no graphic changes needed in-game)
* All enmity created by any party member during this ability is given to the Ninja.
* Enmity gained depends on the party's actions.
* Requires at least 1 utsusemi shadow to be active to gain enmity from another's actions.
* Hate reducing abilities used during this effect do not impact the ninja's enmity. (High Jump and Super Jump do not reduce the Ninja's enmity, for example. Thief's Accomplice type abilities should have no effect on the ninja)

---

New Ninjutsu: Smokescreen
Duration: 30 seconds (can be canceled)
Recast: 1 min
The ninja throws a smoke bomb that creates a thick cloud of smoke, obscuring the ninja from view.
* Drops all enmity while in effect.
* When the effect wears off, more enmity is gained than was shed. (amount enhanceable through enmity+/- merits/gear)
* Enmity gained from the Ninja's offensive actions during the effect is not "gained" until the effect wears off.
* The sairui-ran tool may be used for this ninjutsu in addition to Kurayami.

---

New Job Trait: Fade
When a Ninja takes physical damage, their evasion increases for a brief time.
Tier 1 Level 20: +5 evasion
Tier 2 Level 40: +10 evasion
Tier 3 Level 60: +15 evasion
Tier 4 Level 80: +20 evasion

* It's +5 per tier, total of 20, not 50 (just in case there's any confusion)
* This is a very short effect, but it should last long enough to help evade at least the next enemy attack.
* Gear could be added to enhance Fade's duration and amount of evasion.

all nice idea i love the trickery the most though save it for melee to do WS

[Superchicken]

so with a Job Trait called Fade you want ninja to gain evasion when they are hit? Sounds broken to me. We should just have ninja's be able to not die at all while we are at. Ninja's have Utsu and good evasion skill as is, and you want an Ability to increase their evasion even more when they get hit, Yonin is already there to increase the evasion yet you still want more? I believe asking for this so called Fade ability is a little much. The thread is titled REALISTIC job wants i believe fade is slightly on the unrealistic side in terms of its something thats already there in game through yonin. Asking for even more evasion on a job that already has good evasion skill, a job ability to increase that evasion even more, Shadows to absorb physical hits, and plenty of evasion gear to use if you choose is a little far fetched and over the top if you ask me

[Bulrogg]

...because a ninja never gets their shadows AoE wiped twice in a row and left to eat hits to the face like a MNK while waiting on Uts recast, never.

While fade does seem over the top now, maybe it could be looked at as a T3 merit for 99. Fade could work like a Job Trait that activates only while Yonin is up. The Eva wouldn't be so large as to make you never get hit, but maybe dodge a few hits while waiting on Utsu recast. But who knows what SE has in mind. 99 is still a bit away from now.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone so put the flame throwers up for now; I'm just tired of seeing people bash other ideas for whatever reason: seems over the top, doesn't fit the play style of a NIN, unrealistic expectation, the name Imadouce was already taken and they are bitter about it....

If you've nothing to add to someone's idea other than being a negative Nancey, let it go. If you have some real constructive criticism add it. If you're just here to say: that idea is lame, have better gear, you should level another etc. save it for another Forum. I really get tired of wading through negative replies while looking for the actual post that matter.

[Ezikiel]

the ideas weren't originally mine but i did like them though which is why i quoted them up there but there are trolls that just like smashing other people

[Superchicken]

...because a ninja never gets their shadows AoE wiped twice in a row and left to eat hits to the face like a MNK while waiting on Uts recast, never.

While fade does seem over the top now, maybe it could be looked at as a T3 merit for 99. Fade could work like a Job Trait that activates only while Yonin is up. The Eva wouldn't be so large as to make you never get hit, but maybe dodge a few hits while waiting on Utsu recast. But who knows what SE has in mind. 99 is still a bit away from now.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone so put the flame throwers up for now; I'm just tired of seeing people bash other ideas for whatever reason: seems over the top, doesn't fit the play style of a NIN, unrealistic expectation, the name Imadouce was already taken and they are bitter about it....

If you've nothing to add to someone's idea other than being a negative Nancey, let it go. If you have some real constructive criticism add it. If you're just here to say: that idea is lame, have better gear, you should level another etc. save it for another Forum. I really get tired of wading through negative replies while looking for the actual post that matter.

That is real constructive criticism to how the person describes Fade. In the logic presented its very unrealistic and unbalanced to add something like that to ninja when they already have a job ability that increase evasion and given their evasiveness by nature etc. Something that would make more sense would be ability like perfect counter for monk where if used you will evade the next attack the monster does, but even then i'd say its not needed. The thread is titled realistic job wants and to me i feel the way the fade ability is described is unrealistic and would be very unbalanced, you think differently thats your opinion, good thing we are all entitled to our opinions.

My comment is constructive as it describes why i think the Fade ability is unrealistic. I provide reasons and evidence for my statement. Now you could call it unconstructive if i simply said your idea is stupid and farfetched because i said so!

[Bulrogg]

Yeah, at first I thought something was wrong with my cookies and it took me back to some post I had already read when I clicked "unread post" and there will always be trolls so I'll just have to scroll through.

I just hope people won't get discouraged and not post because of them.

If we keep tossing out ideas maybe the Devs will see something they like from a few of them and put them together to make something.

I really did like the perfect parry idea. And then image trickery sounds like a nice way to generate more hate for the ninja. I'm still not convinced Fade would be needed with the way ninja is now but who is to know as the game progresses with level increase and newer content outside of Abyssea.

[Superchicken]

Yeah, at first I thought something was wrong with my cookies and it took me back to some post I had already read when I clicked "unread post" and there will always be trolls so I'll just have to scroll through.

I just hope people won't get discouraged and not post because of them.

If we keep tossing out ideas maybe the Devs will see something they like from a few of them and put them together to make something.

I really did like the perfect parry idea. And then image trickery sounds like a nice way to generate more hate for the ninja. I'm still not convinced Fade would be needed with the way ninja is now but who is to know as the game progresses with level increase and newer content outside of Abyssea.

i agree with you in the matter that fade is not needed and as I stated the way the the poster described Fade would be unbalanced imo. But i took the idea and applied something that way work like using it as Perfect Evade like Perfect Counter works on mnk, this could seem like something that could be added and not unbalancing at the same time.

[AyinDygra]

Fade was my signifigantly toned down version of FFTactics' Ninja ability: "Abandon" which doubled both physical and magical evasion rates. SE thinks this general concept is part of being a ninja. The implementation may vary.

The real use is not a permanent boost to evasion, but a way to occasionally have time to recast utsusemi against enemies that have very high accuracy or wipe shadows very quickly. I could see some modification to it, such as only activating as often as Monk's counterattack rather than all the time (based on evasion skill), or cut the evasion bonus in half unless under the effect of Yonin.

However, I don't think this is a horribly unrealistic or unbalanced trait when you reach the levels when it would be most potent. Just as a point of note: Ninja gets A- evasion skill. Both Dancer and Thief get at least Evasion Bonus III (+35 eva reported) as traits all the time, and while Dancer only has B+ evasion, Thief has A+ evasion and up to Evasion Bonus V (+60 eva reported). Ninja may get more evasion from gear(I didn't check that), but I really don't think it makes this job trait sound as bad as you make it out to be.

[Bulrogg]

That's cool about FFT.

Maybe if Fade was trait that activated with Yonin/Innin it could increase physical and magical evasion too. With the major boost effecting magical evasion and a lesser physical evasion trait while in Yonin stance. The Innin stance could have Fade offer a greater Enmity reduction (like Muted Soul) and maybe a DA or TA bonus so we can do more damage in the Innin stance without worry about the mob turning to us.

[Superchicken]

New Job Trait: Fade
When a Ninja takes physical damage, their evasion increases for a brief time.
Tier 1 Level 20: +5 evasion
Tier 2 Level 40: +10 evasion
Tier 3 Level 60: +15 evasion
Tier 4 Level 80: +20 evasion

* It's +5 per tier, total of 20, not 50 (just in case there's any confusion)
* This is a very short effect, but it should last long enough to help evade at least the next enemy attack.
* Gear could be added to enhance Fade's duration and amount of evasion.

here's the way the JA was describe. When you look at from top to bottom its talking about being a Trait which level increases, then at the bottom it describes it more like a Ability with the "lasting long enough to evade the next attack.

Now as i've said this origingal description seems somewhat unbalanced. Make it a job ability not a trait could work and make it like perfect counter. The situation for use that comes to mind would be say you are trying to get shadows up but can't cause the mobs accuracy is over powering your evasiveness. /ja "Fade" <me> , /ma "Utsusemi: Ni/Ichi" <me> blame o. Could be a practical implication of a new job ability. Thats how I use perfect counter on mnk/nin. Can't get my shadows back up cause i'm getting hit, pop perfect counter cast Utsu, blame back in business

[Jkr]

I would love to see Innin and Yonnin on separate timers, the same as hasso / siegan. They already have more negative effects than hasso / seigan, why penalise the timer's as well?

[Superchicken]

the problem i find with Innin is that if i'm not the tank i can actually get behind the mob to use it its not long before the mob has turned around to face me and innin is now pointless. So yeah, maybe do something with yonin/innin timers to make them operate more like hasso / seigan. I find myself having to cancel innin more often than actually being able to use it effectively

[Taurent]

1) A+ Katana--we're the only job that can use it, doesnt make sense not to be masters of it.
2) Jubaku: Ni, Monomi: Ni, Dokumori: Ni
3) Perfect Parry Ability
4) 5-Count Utsusemi On Status'
5) Migawari: Ichi- You need to increase the duration of this spell or decrease the recast. Its ridiculous right now.
6) Update NIN 2hr, Mijin Gakure is great now thanks to the elimination of weakness upon using, but if anything it should be a K.O. type move similar to Odin Summon. That or leave the NIN with Auto-Reraise upon use or with 1HP instead.
7) Yonin and Innin on seperate timers.
8) Decreased Futae recast. 1minute is long enough considering how little Ninjutsu spells still do sometimes.

[Relyk]

I agree that currently, in abyssea ninjas don't really need any adjustment. Our versatility is really allowed to shine whether it's DDing with high crit hit rate and damage or evasion tanking heavier NMs, there is an atma for everything. We even have a leg up over monks in some situations being able to VERY EASILY hold hate back taking NMs with nasty gaze moves or high damage spikes simply spamming the whee With the appropriate atmas. Having all of these tools has made us the new rdm and a whole bunch of new people trying to change it.


I think throwing skill actually being useful missed the boat many years ago. While I would love to see some nice synergy shuriken or reasonable npc sold ones (with boxes stacking to 12 stacks) it just does not seem practical at this point. Too many things would have to be changed in order to implement it.
A high recycle rate would have to be added for ninjas
The damage of throwing weapons would have to be reworked with the calculations for ranged attacks how they are
However cool a throwing weapon skill would be just seems well.. Like a waste of data. Thoughts of sitting back and peppering a mob with hundreds of stars is perhaps a dream that will never be implemented.

Now for my own crazy ideas.
Yonin/Innin timers definitely need rethinking. Even just separating them would be a huge step in the right direction.

400 skill weapon skill that implements the damage of your ranged weapon in its hits. (The animation would obviously be awesomesauce) hits with Katanas + jump back and throwing. Backflips and flying galkas /joy

Jubaku:Ni and dokumori Ni ... just sad it hasn't made it to players arsenals yet. They don't even need to be more effective, just an additional timer and a faster casting time would make me more than satisfied.

Changing the way shadows functions or giving us another level of utsusemi would honestly in my eyes be a bit over the top. A more stylish work around to everyones (I can't get shadows up) problem would be a job ability enhancing parrying. I'm thinking more like.... Parryingstance anyone? Perhaps not as broken as counterstance is for monk, maybe a 1/5 minute duration/recast 99 merit? Or 30sec/2min...

I've always liked ninjas in FF. They are the sexy, stylish and a little narcissistic.
Parrying: sexy
Evasion: Elegant
Shuriken: sexy (Boomers/chakrams: not sexy)

The biggest issue for us and developers I think is the unclarity of what players want from ninjas. I believe in it's first implementation ninjas were intended to be DDs like in so many other past FFs. The players took it's survivability to an extreme and demanded that the developers catered more to it's abilities as a tank. Since then it has been a tug of war going back and forth. What I would like to see out of the 99 merits is that they really define how you will play your jobs.

Something Innin like as a job trait.
Parryingstance
Quick Cast

It's too easy to get experience in abyssea now and you can pretty much change your merits around on a daily basis as you see fit. (this is not a complaint about exp). But 99 merits should at least show some sort of dedication towards the way you wish to play your jobs, either by being rediculously expensive (20 merits per level) or by making them more specific

[xSylarx]

i agree with the smoke bomb escape that would be cool but you are missing the best point evasion bonus. Why give thf and dnc duel wield and not give ninja evasion bonus

[Relyk]

Because ninjas can use blind II? And now, yonin if necessary? In terms of mitigating damage delt to them ninjas are far more versatile than thfs... Dnc idk it's a SJ and I haven't explored the mechanics of it's dances and such. It's loldnc however useful it is in abyssea.

[Catsby]

Isn't parry capped at 5% regardless of skill?
That needs to be fixed.

[Een]

They just need to take away -ga spells taking ALL shadows AND causing FULL damage. Not just 1 shadow should be gone like it used to, I never agreed with that tho it was nice, but if you have 4 shadows up and a mob is casting -ga IV on you, you shouldn't go from 1800 HP to 250 HP with a DEFINITE melee swing incoming as soon as the -ga spell lands on you killing you more than likely.

Say if you have 4 shadows up it should mitigate the damage of the -ga spell completely, 3 shadows you take 20% of the dmg from the -ga, 2 you take 35% 1 you take 50%, 0, you take the full blow.

Basically that is all it takes unless you have a Cure Bomb coming at you when a -ga spell lands on you from anything EM or Tough and up. Almost ALL your life gone, with a 100% for sure melee swing coming as soon as the casting is complete. Sure you can recast most of the time, but unless your /DNC or in a party your screwed. It doesn't even take a very hard mob to tear a ninja up with -ga spells. 2-3 and you are basically dead from a DC.

And Yonin/Innin do need seperated...or 1 minute combined recast. I find myself in Abyssea while not tanking running around chasing the mob so I can be in front of it. But while in Abyssea, even if I am tanking I'm just gonna blink my way through my hate and not cancel Innin because of the idiotic recast time.

BUT...one thing I DO NOT understand at all, why impair invasion if you have to be behind the mob to deal this extra damage? I mean come on...it's not like you are going to pull the mob ontop of you and keep it on you causing you to cancel the JA for 5 minutes, especially when it lowers enmity. They didn't think that through.

Jubaki: Ni a definite. Uts: San...naw I'll survive without....really....I'm not holding my breath on that one. Stronger elemental wheel...or a JA that makes ninja nuking worth doing consistantly, Innin just isn't enough. Futae is cool when you can land a MB. Like I have Doton: San, landed it with Futae and Innin on for 1100 on a MB. That mob didn't leave me after that.

I'll take Kuryami, Hojo: San, screw Dokumori: Ni...meh..maybe..I'd rather have a landable sleep spell. Something that you can sleep the link instead of being stuck with tanking 2 mobs hoping Kurayami and Hojo and Jubaku are enough to keep both the mobs from tearing your ass up.

I'd love a sleep ninjutsu spell.

But my favorite suggestion, I've been wanting this for a LOOONNNNGGG time. Would help SOO much with a ninja tanking. A Job Ability, able to give your remaining shadows to a party member, increasing ninja's Enmity exponentially.

With Uts recast up, Ni or Ichi, having the ability to Give your BLM your 4 or 3 remaining shadows and gaining Enmity off of that like crazy to get the hate back ontop of you would go great with Yonin. Being able to blink up your BLM, Recast Uts, Provoke and having the mob back ontop of you would be so great. I've thought about this for the longest time, it would be so worth it...the ninja's version of Cover.

Who wouldn't want that? Would be a great base for enmity when things need to be focused on you and you only or at least mainly you, it still would bounce, but it would give a ninja a fighting chance to be able to give another player, that has pulled massive amounts of hate off of you, to get it back from them instead of not being able to do much but hope that when you Provoke and WS it wants you again.

1 Min recast to btw. Being able to give your shadows every minute...it's not like it would change the balance of the game. You'd be giving away the very thing that protects you if you abuse it and not wait on recasts to be up you would be basically killing yourself..

Hell, PLD can cover and absorb MP while doing it, Samurai can give people TP, RDM and WHM MP and HP, why the hell can't a Ninja give Shadows and cause a massive hate turn in doing so? All just so the ninja can do his job...Blink tank.

[ThaiChi]

As much as people are throwing it around and not gaining more attention, one of the things I'd like to see implemented is the quick cast, and so people don't bitch about their jobs not getting it or making their jobs obsolete (Looking at you who complained about Battery Charge), should be applied to jobs with native skill. E.G. Ninjas should be able to occasionally quick cast ninjutsu, WHM/PLD/RDM should be able to quick cast healing magic, divine magic, enhancing magic, etc. BLMs, elemental... you get the idea. It could even possibly be implemented easily as a job trait post 50 as to systematically prevent sub jobs having quick cast on something they don't have skill in, similar to how you cannot skill up magic from a subjob. As something exclusive to main jobs, anyone using /nin would see no change and can continue playing as they were.

As for changes I'd like to see, I'd have to go with the consensus: Jubaku/Dokumori: Ni, seperate/adjusted Yonin and Innin timers, Ni spells of Yurin, Aisha, Myoshu and Migawari, and Perfect Parry.

However, I do want Utsusemi: San for a few reasons: 1. It's already in the dats. 2. Everybody and their mom has access to Utsusemi: Ni. That being sad, /RDM was recently given the ability to cast refresh and THEN was given refresh 2 for RDM mains. If they do decide to ever implement Utsu: San, it would have to be without giving NIN that perfect parry JA. 3 sets of shadows to absorb single hits and tack on perfect parry? Yeah, that'd be overpowered.

As for throwing WS, I'm on the fence about simply because I don't have the inventory to carry more crap lol. My NIN having all my equipment (WS, Eva, TP, Enmity, Fast Cast, Spell Interrupt, Nuking, Blade: Hi) already takes up close to 70 spots of inventory. I tend to leave my ninjutsu skill and pdt gear in the mog house or satchel, and that still doesn't include tools I have to carry (Universal tools are a godsend). Add in the stack of shuriken, the throwing skill/racc equipment and I'd have to be furiously swapping out things into my sack/satchel and tossing random trash whenever I see a drop in the pool I want to lot. But on the flipside, having something else to do damage with would just be plain cool.

Fade would be a bit unnecessary, but would be nice to have something on the player side in decreasing a mobs accuracy, since we already have Kurayami and it doesn't always land (See: Dark based abyssea mobs), a natural evasion bonus would suffice honestly.

imho, nothing else needs to be changed in any way. Most non 2hander jobs max out at A- skill in offensive combat skill with the notable exception of PLD and MNK for a clearly defined 1handed weapon. If SE gave NIN A+ katana, (which would be nice, but unneeded) they would have to give THF, BST, BLU, and WAR A+s as well in their respective 1 handed weapons. Ninjutsu on the otherhand.... would be a very welcome change to have an A+ skill.

That Image trickery JA that was brought up, should totally be called Genjutsu. /narutard.

[xSylarx]

Ninja is over powered at the moment inside of abyssea. Outside we are still a joke with the exception of those of which that have blade Hi. I started playing again because I heard ninja was getting new spells. I assumed Monomi:, Jubaku:, Dokumori: Ni. Instead the spells are alright but not great most i don't use aka Aisha. Since we are considered magish we have no JA. Parrying stance but that might be a bit to much or a spell that increases rate of parry. Sort of like reprisal 4 parry, also I think ninja should get parry mastery

[vajral]

ehm ninja already has it, it's just called tactical parry

1. jubaku:ni (and maybe dokumori:ni)
2. affordable/farmable throwing ammo (i just discovered Sange is GORGEOUS)
3. better recast for yonin/innin (it's way too frustrating when a dispelga just eats your fresh yonin)

imho this is what ninjas really need, no more no less, and also what's more likely to be given

[xSylarx]

i was meaning some kind of increase parry rate. To the throwing ammo comment Sange is when fully merited some thing you can use there 5 min. Everyone cries about throwing ws and ammo we don't have any ways to pack them up. Once again the great shuriken with only stack to 12. When ninja was created I think its safe to assume that ninja was meant to be a puller job. If they do make a throwing weapon it most likely gonna be a lame low damage dart.

[ThaiChi]

I don't know about you, maybe its placebo, but ever since they gave us tactical parry, my rate of parry has gone up. But that could also be attributed to me going from 245 to 290. And tactical parry isn't a stance, its a job trait, much like counter, most people here have been talking about having a job ability that gives us a guaranteed parry akin to Seigan+Third Eye and Perfect Counter.

edit: oh nvm, i see what you did there. Parry mastery = Tactical parry haha.

[vajral]

koga shuriken stack to 99, but they're a real pain to get

[Orenwald]

they should make a Shuriken Synergy recipe like all the other ammos. x99 NQ x198 HQ1 x297 HQ2 :(

Also: Make the shuriken you make with that recipe not suck ;_;

[vajral]

I don't know about you, maybe its placebo, but ever since they gave us tactical parry, my rate of parry has gone up. But that could also be attributed to me going from 245 to 290. And tactical parry isn't a stance, its a job trait, much like counter, most people here have been talking about having a job ability that gives us a guaranteed parry akin to Seigan+Third Eye and Perfect Counter.

edit: oh nvm, i see what you did there. Parry mastery = Tactical parry haha.

i skilled up like crazy lately too, 200-240 but i think it's only because we're continuously fighting IT mobs, since i got my ninja back i tanked nearly everything we fought
before abyssea i was mainly playing rng, which parry like crazy but doesn't get skillups

[Faule]

What I'd like to see:

1. By level 99 give us Auto-Sneak. I'm a Ninja goddammit. I don't make noise when I walk places. This would get rid of the people shouting for Monomi Ni. (even though that spell should exist).

2. Throwing Weapon Skills. Yes I want throwing weaponskills. No, I don't want them to do damage. I'd like the Aim-Leg and other types of debuffs for the skills. Things like bind, gravity, def down, mab down. Debuffing Throwing Skills. I see no problem dumping 100%TP or more for a debuff. It wouldn't be overpowered but it could find it's way into usable situations. Accuracy would obviously be based off of your Throwing Skill, and duration/potency based off of your throwing weapon base damage or other bonuses.

You could get into some simple synergy that allows you to get Shurikens with additional effects for Bind etc. I find it silly they can make drain/sleep/elemental etc arrowheads and bolt heads. But Shurikens ... they just can't quite figure out. -_-

3. I don't have a three, this is me saying Ninja rocks as it is and outside of Jubaku: Ni (I've been asking for this for years) I can't ask for anything else.

[Viltry]

I completely agree. Ninja needs A+ skill and new job abilities/new Ni scrolls. They shafted us in other updates and it seems like only after 90 will Nin see something worth while.

What I would like to see:
-Katana A+ skill
-Jubaku:Ni,Monomi:Ni,Usti:San(might overpower nin but w/ any job able to do Ni with Nin sub, would be nice)
-Better parrying rate(way, way too low)
-2hr adjustment(right now, its little more then another form of warp)

Nin is my main and I hate to see it so mixed up in and out of Aby. Great job just seems to have been shafted recently.

[Alderin]

NIN got the long straw regarding the later updates in my opinion, so I would just replace a few of the most recent terrible traits that we got from 75-90 with these.

1. Instead of Magic Burst Bonus - change it to Magic Attack Bonus. (For Ninjitsu spells obviously). Because let's face it, that is a terrible job trait as is.

2. Instead of Skillchain Bonus - once again a terrible job trait. Change it to what has already been mentioned - Crit hit rate or crit hit dmg.

3. Tactical Parry?? Seriously guys.. wtf? Perhaps instead of that, simply a Parry Bonus (similar to evasion bonus etc for DNC). I would much prefer to parry more often, rather then get TP if I parry. Unless you are going to throw us like 100% TP every time we parry or something crazy - this trait is useless and if anything should be a lvl 10 job trait.

However I don't believe nin needs fixing. Beef up PLD instead.

[LeaderofAtlantis]

I had an idea to make better use of Throwing Stars as they seem to be left behind in favor of boomerangs.

(JT) Saijunkan - Chance to recover throwing items for reuse. Chance per trait level: +5%

[Orenwald]

NIN got the long straw regarding the later updates in my opinion, so I would just replace a few of the most recent terrible traits that we got from 75-90 with these.

1. Instead of Magic Burst Bonus - change it to Magic Attack Bonus. (For Ninjitsu spells obviously). Because let's face it, that is a terrible job trait as is.

2. Instead of Skillchain Bonus - once again a terrible job trait. Change it to what has already been mentioned - Crit hit rate or crit hit dmg.

3. Tactical Parry?? Seriously guys.. wtf? Perhaps instead of that, simply a Parry Bonus (similar to evasion bonus etc for DNC). I would much prefer to parry more often, rather then get TP if I parry. Unless you are going to throw us like 100% TP every time we parry or something crazy - this trait is useless and if anything should be a lvl 10 job trait.

However I don't believe nin needs fixing. Beef up PLD instead.

Dude, SC bonus and MB bonus rock.... this being said why can't we have SCB, MBB, MAB, AND Crit Damage bonus? prz? perty prz?

[Faule]

Tactical Evade. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

How ridiculously tasty would that be.

[Orenwald]

Tactical Evade. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

How ridiculously tasty would that be.

lol dude I was joking about that with my friends... this being said, even if it was a nerf TP like 0.1 TP per evade I'd still jizz in my pants over it. I'm not gunna complain about free TP @.@

[Alderin]

Dude, SC bonus and MB bonus rock.... this being said why can't we have SCB, MBB, MAB, AND Crit Damage bonus? prz? perty prz?

Depends how much party stuff you do. In my circumstance they are terrible traits as most of the stuff I use nin for is low-manned, and not something I am spamming skillchains and bursts off with. But hey thats a matter of opinion and circumstance.

But yeah Crit DMG would pwn.

[Mizzou]

1. By level 99 give us Auto-Sneak. I'm a Ninja goddammit. I don't make noise when I walk places. This would get rid of the people shouting for Monomi Ni. (even though that spell should exist). ~Faule

I've thought about this myself, even at 90 why isn't stealth proc'ing more? With that said, I'd like to see "Stealth II". . . BUT. . . (as we know SE in the past) it would most likely occur during night time (if we're REAL lucky, during dark weather too, WOOT!)

As a rumor I've been told there is another merit group coming at lv99 (okay, I'm sure most of us already know it is in fact inevitable). I see the merit groups for Ninja being Ni AND San spells. It makes sense due to the nature that we're exposed to a wide range of spells now (1 or 2 more please. ie ~ a dark spell for debuffing) for personal play styles via merits.

Additionally, I don't ever see something like 'smoke bomb' coming out because we already have a blind 2 spell (San perhaps), unless we're talking -ga spells. Don't take that the wrong way, in fact, I wish they would give something in the form of -ga. I think we're overdue. Movies, books and common stereotypes, (ie: Shinobi or American Ninja<3, even TMNT) if the ninja isn't fighting another elite ninja, she/he's fighting multiple opponents. Thus, give me a -ga spell. To kind of put that into perspective or solidify my point of view: blm, sleepga. whm and rdm, diaga and blu well, too many to name. But if WHM has a -ga, then give me a -ga. Give me blindga (smoke bomb-ga) to pull with or crowd control. Nice alternative to assist mages when sleepga wears off. :cool:

Tactical Evasion = Sexy

P.S. ~ I don't care to hear people complain/b'sh about too many nin's or making nin too powerful INSIDE abyssea. Because I've been Ninthra'ing it since the job came out and SOOOO many flipping haters out there would not let most of us play because it was in fact, unorthodox and didn't fit the 'stereotype' of jobs. My response to the haters: FU~! And to the conformers: I'm glad we're on the rise and I'm proud to see more people taking ninja in. Or maybe all this time there have been closet Ninja's finally coming out.

P.S. II ~ Gakaroth is a conformer :D

[Shadobi]

The Smoke Bomb (スモークボム, Sumōku Bomu) is a recurring, single-use item in the Final Fantasy (6,7) series usually used to escape from battles. Its what I meant on the first page not as blind tool like in Final Fantasy X... and so on -.-..

[Mojo]

I think there actually have been upgrades to the Stealth ability, although I can't be 100% certain. I find it difficult to sound aggro some mobs sometimes on ninja, have to get very close.

[Fetus]

It's been said a hundred times so far, but I'll say it again: NIN doesn't need A+ skills, throwing WS or certain :Ni or :San-level ninjutsu. Stop asking for it. Going on 9 pages of this crap. Tactical Evade or whatever will also never happen. Keep dreaming.

[Orenwald]

Yes, NIN doesn't need any of that junk... but throwing WS's would be fun, and not really game-breaky at all :D

[Mizzou]

Apparently someone forgot the name of this...
Thread: Realistic Job adjustments wants! (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/393-Realistic-Job-adjustments-wants%21)

"wants".

[Fetus]

Apparently someone forgot the name of this...
Thread: Realistic Job adjustments wants! (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/393-Realistic-Job-adjustments-wants%21)

"wants".

Apparently some people forgot the modifying word realistic.

[Mizzou]

I thought about stating that, but then I realized, let him do it for me. Thank you, there are many realistic 'wants'. Look at previous FF games and compare to what people are saying. And in case you forgot, SE only knows what's going to happen in the future. So to say that none of these are going to be in it? Leave. The only comment that resonates unrealistic is yours. I do understand your optimism and enthusiasm is handicapped by negativity. Perhaps because these are not your wants and you prefer something else or nothing at all. This is not the thread for you. However, this is a thread for people say how they would like to see the job evolved even more. Why is that so hard to comprehend? (that was rhetorical) Have fun with it or leave. Don't be the buzz kill.

[Fetus]

I thought about stating that, but then I realized, let him do it for me. Thank you, there are many realistic 'wants'. Look at previous FF games and compare to what people are saying. And in case you forgot, SE only knows what's going to happen in the future. So to say that none of these are going to be in it? Leave. The only comment that resonates unrealistic is yours. I do understand your optimism and enthusiasm is handicapped by negativity. Perhaps because these are not your wants and you prefer something else or nothing at all. This is not the thread for you. However, this is a thread for people say how they would like to see the job evolved even more. Why is that so hard to comprehend? (that was rhetorical) Have fun with it or leave. Don't be the buzz kill.

The crap you guys are asking for won't happen. Hate to be a Debbie Downer. Most of it is beyond ridiculous. Come back down to Earth.

[Orenwald]

The crap you guys are asking for won't happen. Hate to be a Debbie Downer. Most of it is beyond ridiculous. Come back down to Earth.

This is the internets, we don't have to be on Earth. We can live in space if we want to, don't be hatin'

[Bulrogg]

Hate to be a Debbie Downer.

Then don't be?

Just because you do not agree with someone else's "realistic job wants" does not mean you have to actively belittle the idea.

[Faule]

Tactical Evade or whatever will also never happen. Keep dreaming.

/That was the joooke.

But I'm completely serious about the Auto-Sneak.

[Orenwald]

/That was the joooke.

But I'm completely serious about the Auto-Sneak.

I'd jump on that bandwagon. One less tool I'd have to buy xD

[Shoko]

It's been said a hundred times so far, but I'll say it again: NIN doesn't need A+ skills, throwing WS or certain :Ni or :San-level ninjutsu. Stop asking for it. Going on 9 pages of this crap. Tactical Evade or whatever will also never happen. Keep dreaming.

Actually it's more feasible than you think to add Ni and San levels of enfeebling ninjutsu. The argument would have been invalid if this was 2004 before merit additions, but now RDM (for example) have T2 Slow and Para, and Sabo JA and tons of Magic Acc and MND/INT potency gear.

I agree that the other stuff is more over the top however. Either way, I'ma post a new topic soon on relative and simple fixes to NIN that might make it a better job overall.

[Gakaroth]

P.S. II ~ Gakaroth is a conformer :D

A conformer...

No, I'm just comfortable playing the job as it is at the moment, and if you ask any, ANY, of my friends, they'll tell you that every update we've got a new spell I've been pissed off it hasn't been the one spell we've lacked since lv45~ Jubaku: Ni.

Just because I haven't posted any origional ideas does not make me a conformist, infact, the only thing I've pointed out in this forum is that AF3+2 shoes give a 5th shaddow from Utsu: ni (I realise I miss-read what the user posted, but I'm dyslexic so sue me... and the icon shows '4+' on it at the moment, for those who weren't ninja before yonin/innin and shaddow count was added to the icons)

I've been sitting back and reading the suggestions slowly contemplating how they would be implimented in the game, and debating improvments and the likes, and also been trying to think of my own. I've been NIN for 3 years now, spent 6 months after level sync came out getting it from 50-75 before taking a break from XI for the birth of my son for 6 months.

I've still to come up with any concepts but am enjoying reading the forum, and fail to see why I was singled out and picked on here. Can you please explain this?

[Fetus]

Actually it's more feasible than you think to add Ni and San levels of enfeebling ninjutsu. The argument would have been invalid if this was 2004 before merit additions, but now RDM (for example) have T2 Slow and Para, and Sabo JA and tons of Magic Acc and MND/INT potency gear.

I agree that the other stuff is more over the top however. Either way, I'ma post a new topic soon on relative and simple fixes to NIN that might make it a better job overall.

Maybe I should clarify:

I'm saying that :San level enfeebling ninjutsu is highly unlikely considering that NIN lacks a complete line of even :Ni level ninjutsu. The extremely popular consensus has been that players would like to have Jubaku: Ni and Dokumori: Ni. If anyone wanted proof, just read any FFXI ninja-related forum on the internet. The comment was more directed to the unlikelihood of accessing Tier 4 elemental ninjutsu. Unless they were level 99 merits. Even then, no fking thanks. Give us some good merits for once, instead, please. Also, I think you meant valid.

@Bulrogg - Explain to me how A+ skills, :Ni and :San everything, sooper dooper Throwing WS and whatever other outlandish stuff you can unfortunately find in this thread are needed or necessary. Then I'll stop "belittling".

[Bulrogg]

We do not know what SE has planned for the future, at 99, inside or outside of Abyssea. So while a lot of stuff that is uber duper is not needed then or now, it shouldn't stop us from discussing things that could potentially be a great addition or adjustment.

I guess some people feel the need to shoot down any idea that will change the game/job from the way they think it should be.

[Fetus]

Because so much of this garbage is a "great addition or adjustment".

And yes, I will continue to shoot down ideas that are terrible.

[Bulrogg]

I said that could be...
But first it would have to not get shot down by people that don't like the idea and think there is no room for improvement except in the areas they agree with.


And I'm really, really tired of pessimist like you complaining about everything that people on these forums are suggesting. The forums were designed precisely for this purpose.

I won't try reason with you as why not to be a downer, it seems your mind is set.

[Addy]

I want to see a complete line of :Ni spells... As others have mentioned the idea of AoE spells also seems cool to me. I could see the :San levels of our spells maybe taking such an idea on. Also, I'm on the Utsu: San bandwagon as well but I feel it should function as a defense against AoE's. I see it as possibly still allowing the damage to hit us but as long as Utsu: San is up no other shadows would be erased. This would solve the pesky problem we occasionaly run into of getting dropped in 1 or 2 hits after an AoE is cast. I'd like to see these spells be questable if they arent added to merits.

I also love the idea of shurikens (or throwing WS's, I don't really care) making up for the enfeeb's we dont have. Throwing things that add silence, bind, magic def. down etc. I think would really add a new aspect to nin game play.

As far as JA's go I would love to see Innin and Yonin on seperate timers, however, I don't see this as being extremely crucial. Really JA and Job Trait wise I feel Nin is pretty solid.

[wish12oz]

I hate this thread so much, 99% of these ideas fail.
The only good idea, is the people who want jubaku ni.

[Faule]

I hate this thread so much, 99% of these ideas fail.
The only good idea, is the people who want jubaku ni.

What a square. ;)

[Orenwald]

I want to see a complete line of :Ni spells... As others have mentioned the idea of AoE spells also seems cool to me. I could see the :San levels of our spells maybe taking such an idea on. Also, I'm on the Utsu: San bandwagon as well but I feel it should function as a defense against AoE's. I see it as possibly still allowing the damage to hit us but as long as Utsu: San is up no other shadows would be erased. This would solve the pesky problem we occasionaly run into of getting dropped in 1 or 2 hits after an AoE is cast. I'd like to see these spells be questable if they arent added to merits.

I also love the idea of shurikens (or throwing WS's, I don't really care) making up for the enfeeb's we dont have. Throwing things that add silence, bind, magic def. down etc. I think would really add a new aspect to nin game play.

As far as JA's go I would love to see Innin and Yonin on seperate timers, however, I don't see this as being extremely crucial. Really JA and Job Trait wise I feel Nin is pretty solid.

I'm totally with you on the Innin/Yonin timers!

I do think we should get at least an :Ichi tier sleep spell. Ninjas mythically have sleeping powder/gas! Let us use it! ;_;

[wish12oz]

What a square. ;)

Being a square is better then being a fool who thinks ninja needs anything other then a slight boost to melee damage.

[AyinDygra]

Being a square is better then being a fool who thinks ninja needs anything other then a slight boost to melee damage.

Because none of the other jobs are getting anything more than a slight boost to anything in the next 9 levels? At this point in time it may be true that Ninja doesn't "need" anything major. This will not always be the case.

All jobs will be getting new things. It's not a question of "needing" anything, it's a matter of possible areas of growth for the jobs. Depending on how long the game continues, all the jobs will continue to be given new things to play with, even after we hit the level 99 cap, just like how jobs kept getting things while we were at the level 75 cap.

Also, some ideas (like mine) were born directly from SE's comments at past Fanfests about the direction they wanted to take certain jobs. (for example, for Ninja, they said they were considering a job ability that would drop a Ninja's enmity temporarily and then restore that enmity plus more, to make dual tanking easier) and the other two were logical extensions of the job's historical FF abilities and current in-game player-created usage of the job.

Many of the ideas in this thread "fit" the ninja job in concept, but may need to be changed or balanced before implementation. It's not really the job of people with the ideas to do all that (even if they did, there are factors that only the Dev team are aware of that would render all that work pointless.)

It doesn't hurt to point out that you personally wouldn't like certain things, but some people's only reasoning is that we don't "need" anything more, and that's just wrong.


On a more general note:

These boards allow players to communicate to the Dev team what direction we would like to see the game take. I wouldn't say that all the ideas I've seen on all the job sections are all good, however, it does give insight into the way players perceive the jobs (however misguided some may be.) This feedback also allows the dev team to discuss how to change player perceptions and make better use of what we already have if additions are not made to existing systems that are deemed sufficient as is.

I encourage everyone who "wants" something for the game to speak up about it, whether "needed" or not. (I understand some annoyance people have when "silly" ideas are put forth, since they have a chance of being taken seriously, but I'd like to think that the people who are reading these boards and collecting the ideas to be presented to the Dev team are able to discern most of those for what they are.)

I would also add that it is not up to players to say whether something is "too hard" to implement, or any other such "final decisions" that are clearly up to SE to make. I've seen way too many threads on these boards where players try to speak up on behalf of SE to give their answers (usually "no", too hard, PS2 limitations, blahblah), rather than seeing what the Dev team has to say. No, we don't know how they'd respond, even if they've responded in a certain way in the past. They've clearly shown that they're open to changing the direction of the game in recent years.

[Faule]

Being a square is better then being a fool who thinks ninja needs anything other then a slight boost to melee damage.

I'll keep my mind open.

[wish12oz]

stuff

Cool story Bro.

[Bulrogg]

Some people just don't want to see [INSERT JOB HERE] changed in any way and want to stay in Abyssea forever.

We shouldn't forget there are nine more levels of wonderment. I enjoy reading the suggestions and wonder what if any the Devs might pick to improve upon.

[JiltedValkyrie]

I liked the mention in the throwing thread about ammunition (or more specifically, shuriken) to be thrown during melee attacks.

New Job Ability:
Hogeki (hōgeki, 砲撃) English: "bombardment"
Occasionally adds a ranged attack while engaged in combat.

*Duration: 1 minute, Recast: 3/5 minutes.
*Does not interfere with melee attack speed (instant attack animation--it's automatic).
*Damage affected by Throwing Skill level. (give a little something to those of us with really high skill levels and incentive to others to skill it up)

The extra damage would be nice! Would make having a gun, bow, throwing, or shuriken/ammo equipped more worthwhile. I'm thinking specifially throwing/ammo though.

[Orenwald]

I liked the mention in the throwing thread about ammunition (or more specifically, shuriken) to be thrown during melee attacks.

New Job Ability:
Hogeki (hōgeki, 砲撃) english: "bombardment"
Occasionally adds a ranged attack while engaged in combat.

The extra damage would be nice! Would make having a gun, bow, throwing, or shuriken/ammo equipped more worthwhile. I'm thinking specifially throwing/ammo though.

I like this idea, maybe make it one of those 3min duration 5min recast JAs so it's not so like... broken~y

[wish12oz]

I liked the mention in the throwing thread about ammunition (or more specifically, shuriken) to be thrown during melee attacks.

New Job Ability:
Hogeki (hōgeki, 砲撃) english: "bombardment"
Occasionally adds a ranged attack while engaged in combat.

*Duration: 1 minute, Recast: 3/5 minutes.
*Does not interfere with melee attack speed (instant attack animation--it's automatic).
*Damage affected by Throwing Skill level. (give a little something to those of us with really high skill levels and incentive to others to skill it up)

The extra damage would be nice! Would make having a gun, bow, throwing, or shuriken/ammo equipped more worthwhile. I'm thinking specifially throwing/ammo though.

Your idea involves losing qirmiz tathlum, and carrying stacks of shurikens, which will reduce available inventory even more. Us notgimpninjas currently carry 75+ items with us we require to effectively do our jobs, last thing we need is more crap to carry and waste gil on. This is a terrible idea.

Not to mention the fact that theres no good throwing weapons available.

[JiltedValkyrie]

Your idea involves losing qirmiz tathlum, and carrying stacks of shurikens, which will reduce available inventory even more. Us notgimpninjas currently carry 75+ items with us we require to effectively do our jobs, last thing we need is more crap to carry and waste gil on. This is a terrible idea.

Not to mention the fact that theres no good throwing weapons available.

Not to mention Square Enix can make new shuriken. Think ahead. Extra attacks would easily be better than a Qirmiz. Your Hogeki timer down? Put the Qirmiz back. Easy. Shuriken stack to 99 already. There are many play styles for every job.

[wish12oz]

There are many play styles for every job.

There is many play styles, but only 1 is the most effective and useful.
SE's track history shows they're bad at adding shurikens anyway if you bothered to look, theyre way to expensive to make or come 1 at a time as a drop from battlefield NM stuff no one does. More of this is not what ninja needs.

[Bulrogg]

There is many play styles, but only 1 is the most effective and useful.

Maybe for the present time but you're not thinking ahead from here to 99. Stop trolling about the past where they failed and look for what is coming. I have a feeling we all will be adjusting play styles between future version update and 99.

I want my Billy-goats, Billy-goats, Billy-goats...

[Kensagaku]

Your idea involves losing qirmiz tathlum, and carrying stacks of shurikens, which will reduce available inventory even more. Us notgimpninjas currently carry 75+ items with us we require to effectively do our jobs, last thing we need is more crap to carry and waste gil on. This is a terrible idea.

Not to mention the fact that theres no good throwing weapons available.

I second the idea that there are no good throwing weapons, but the rest...

Where are you getting 75+ for us "good" ninja? O_o With sets for evasion, TPing, ninjutsu, shadow recasts, and WS, as well as my tools (Shadows, Blind/Para/Slow, Myoshu, Migawari, Yurin, Sneak/Invis) I hit roughly about 55-60 inventory at best. When I get Blade: Hi finally I'll be converting my WS set but that won't even change my final inventory amount much. Toss in Echo drops and food, keep extra weapons for proc in mog sack 'til I need them out... really there shouldn't be too much issue carrying a stack or two of shuriken (Or even "holsters" of them if they decide to implement this and make them baggable), provided said weapons were worth the time and effort to get them.

Of course, I emphasize that they make them actually useful and reasonably obtainable/useful. >.> Nokizaru/Koga Shuriken, I'm looking at you...

[JiltedValkyrie]

Precisely. If new shuriken are unobtainable reasonably, then a JA like hogeki would be too lucrative in aspect to its cost, or they'd have to revamp old shuriken stats and/or recipes.

[wish12oz]

I second the idea that there are no good throwing weapons, but the rest...

Where are you getting 75+ for us "good" ninja? O_o With sets for evasion, TPing, ninjutsu, shadow recasts, and WS, as well as my tools (Shadows, Blind/Para/Slow, Myoshu, Migawari, Yurin, Sneak/Invis) I hit roughly about 55-60 inventory at best. When I get Blade: Hi finally I'll be converting my WS set but that won't even change my final inventory amount much. Toss in Echo drops and food, keep extra weapons for proc in mog sack 'til I need them out...

Where's your damage reduction and magic damage reduction sets? Arhats+1 body/head, twilight torque, merman's earrings, dark rings, denali gloves, shadow mantle/collosus mantle? Leitenants sash? pants? shoes? thats 8-12 slots you are missing right there, and I don't even know what your TP or WS gear looks like to tell you what you're missing.


Precisely. If new shuriken are unobtainable reasonably, then a JA like hogeki would be too lucrative in aspect to its cost, or they'd have to revamp old shuriken stats and/or recipes.

But they won't, people have been asking for that for years and SE has never done it, move past throwing, it's a low level thing and no longer useful and you have enough in your inventory as it is.

And I wouldn't be saying all this but the title is REALISTIC job adjustments.

[darkvision]

so with a Job Trait called Fade you want ninja to gain evasion when they are hit? Sounds broken to me. We should just have ninja's be able to not die at all while we are at. Ninja's have Utsu and good evasion skill as is, and you want an Ability to increase their evasion even more when they get hit, Yonin is already there to increase the evasion yet you still want more? I believe asking for this so called Fade ability is a little much. The thread is titled REALISTIC job wants i believe fade is slightly on the unrealistic side in terms of its something thats already there in game through yonin. Asking for even more evasion on a job that already has good evasion skill, a job ability to increase that evasion even more, Shadows to absorb physical hits, and plenty of evasion gear to use if you choose is a little far fetched and over the top if you ask me

on the topic on Evasion THF gets way more EVA than Ninja does by ~30 evasion so does that mean THF is broken since they have more EVA than NIN?

Also remember that Yonin's EVA bonus is when infront of the mob only so when not infront of the mob (like tanking something from behind or AoE) then THF has ~ 80 more evasion than NIN so having an ability like fade will not break NIN and if you read the description


New Job Trait: Fade
When a Ninja takes physical damage, their evasion increases for a brief time.
Tier 1 Level 20: +5 evasion
Tier 2 Level 40: +10 evasion
Tier 3 Level 60: +15 evasion
Tier 4 Level 80: +20 evasion

* It's +5 per tier, total of 20, not 50 (just in case there's any confusion)
* This is a very short effect, but it should last long enough to help evade at least the next enemy attack.
* Gear could be added to enhance Fade's duration and amount of evasion.

i even under lined it for you. THF will still get ~10 more evasion than NIN

ask yourself again, will an ability like Fade, as AyinDygra mentioned, break NIN?

imo no it will not, if your woried that it will, then why not make it activate while Yonin is not in effect? Yonin can be dispelled and can be stolen from some mobs and if this is the case then THF still has the superior EVA

here is how i looked at it
Thief Evasion
Evasion Skill A+ 361
Evasion Bonus V Total Evasion Up: +60
Gear +105 (approx not exact possibly higher)

Total: 526

Ninja Evasion
Evasion Skill: 354
Yonin (when in front of mob): +50
Gear: +103(approx not exact possibly higher)

Total: infront of mob = 507
Total: not infront of mob = 457

will a total of +20 REALLY break NIN?

[wish12oz]

Ninja blind and slow (and especially more shadows) are more useful then thfs extra evasion.
And all that stuff you said doesn't make your idea good or particularly useful.
Also, do some research, thief gets way more then 30 evasion over ninja.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Evasion_Bonus
Evasion bonus V at level 76 thf for instance is +60 evasion, ninja doesn't get any of those. If you want SE to give ninja evasion, maybe you should ask for something more realistic like this job trait, instead of inventing things that sound really hard to code, and are less useful.

[Darwena]

Realistic change on NIN I would like to see?

1- Mijin Gakure: Need to be a better use than Weakned effect remover or free warp... Here my Idea: Mijin gakure could be similar than Odin's effect, exept NIN will die using it.

2- Shuriken: should be nice if we could make/buy good Shuriken w/o selling a kidney for it... Also is freakin time than SE invest some time on better one that can stack over 99 (best one so far are at lv48). Another thing about Shuriken would be bags to stack them like quivers and such. About throwing WS... would be nice, would like to use it but would need to be freakin awsome to use them instead of katana one...

3- Ninjutsu: Love them, love the new spell but will be awsome to get the Ni version of the old one (Jubaku, Dokumori and Monomi). Maybe having a silencing one will be the cherry on the cake.

4- Kick: that one is lil bit pushed but I would realy like to have kick added to our attack :) I mean, I know it's a MNK hability, but NIN are formed with hand to hand also. Since Dual Wield is accessible to DNC and THF, why not we could have some MNK skill too it's all martial art after all.:D

[Gnoir]

My thoughts are for and ES type /ja or a composure typre /ja (prefered) or maybe a warcy esq /ja that enhances party crit rates all 3 would be very usefull and not broken if done right. You could even do it for ma crit, that would be interesting, if a little broken with proprer planning. I might like to see a hate shedding mechanism since ninja's could strike and vanish. Options are as limited as your imagination. Sry if I suggested something already here, I just read a little

[Kensagaku]

ES - Someone already has it. If you're looking for debuff accuracy, get some ninjutsu gear + merits.

Composure - Someone already has it. Besides which, we'd buff what, Utsusemi? It usually goes down from damage rather than fading. Migawari? Takes one hit and poof. Only thing I can see it being used for is Myoshu, which we could just say get a further extension on rather than making a new JA for it. Maybe Tonko/Monomi, I guess.

WAR JA you described - Blood Rage - Someone already has it. What good would M.crits do our Nin nukes? >.>

The point is that we're trying to individualize each job and give them their niches instead of combining them. Sure, there's gonna be some overlap at points, but just going so far as to copy or nearly copy a JA isn't going to make NIN an individual job in any way. =\

[Gnoir]

ES - Someone already has it. If you're looking for debuff accuracy, get some ninjutsu gear + merits.

Composure - Someone already has it. Besides which, we'd buff what, Utsusemi? It usually goes down from damage rather than fading. Migawari? Takes one hit and poof. Only thing I can see it being used for is Myoshu, which we could just say get a further extension on rather than making a new JA for it. Maybe Tonko/Monomi, I guess.

WAR JA you described - Blood Rage - Someone already has it. What good would M.crits do our Nin nukes? >.>

The point is that we're trying to individualize each job and give them their niches instead of combining them. Sure, there's gonna be some overlap at points, but just going so far as to copy or nearly copy a JA isn't going to make NIN an individual job in any way. =\

It's cool you can arbitrarily tear apart someones volunteered opinion. /ja's and /jt's tend to go back and forth, many are the same with a different name or slightly different characteristics. Nin has already cemented it's place and it was never inteded, by se, to be used like the player base uses it. Btw I was responding to the op not you. Your opinion is as welcome here as mine but, I won't bother telling you how worthless your opinion is. I will let you do that

[Shadobi]

Ninja 72 Hour ability Kage Suitchi: Technique which switch the target with yourself. (Any form of attack monster does to you will damage the monster and Any damage you do to target will damage yourself.) Kage Suitchi means Shadow Switch.

What I came up with in other forum Thread: New ideas for v2 Two - Hour abilities. just for fun.

[Gnoir]

Ninja 72 Hour ability Kage Suitchi: Technique which switch the target with yourself. (Any form of attack monster does to you will damage the monster and Any damage you do to target will damage yourself.) Kage Suitchi means Shadow Switch.

What I came up with in other forum Thread: New ideas for v2 Two - Hour abilities. just for fun.
Very cool idea lol very, very broken also. I do like the idea of adding super powerfull three day abilities, that's both original (as far as I know) and has the potential to change the game in alot of unique ways. Don't know if se would go for one that powerfull though XD

[wish12oz]

Btw I was responding to the op not you. Your opinion is as welcome here as mine but, I won't bother telling you how worthless your opinion is. I will let you do that

umad?

Don't post if you can't take other people responding to you. But he's right, all that stuff already exists.

[Karbuncle]

NIN + THF Evasion stuff

I don't think +20 Eva will break NIN! But if you add those traits, with NIN infront of the mob, You'd have 1more EVA than THF... and Evasion is kinda THF's thing :X Its a Catastrophe :O!

It sounds like a solid Job Trait though, It'd be selfish for me to think that NIN wouldn't be good with it.

But you should also give it to THF At a lower rate. I.E

Lv.40 Fade I
Lv.60 Fade 2
Lv.80 Fade 3

for THF, just to keep them on the top of EVA :P

[Gnoir]

umad?

Don't post if you can't take other people responding to you. But he's right, all that stuff already exists.

Not the point, the thread ask's for "realistic job adjustments you want", NOT unique job adjustments that have never been done before.

[Karbuncle]

Not the point, the thread ask's for "realistic job adjustments you want", NOT unique job adjustments that have never been done before.

I think its how you worded it. You told him basically "His opinion is worthless", while at the same time getting upset they were commenting on your Opinion. You were being hypocritical.

Truthfully, I prefer Abilities that Think outside the box!

Perfect Parry in OP was totally my idea in a THF thread :P! but I think I can conjure up some NIN abilities. Note my Japanese sucks so forgive me for any grammatical errors.

Job Traits:
Lv.25 Ansatsusha - Raises the Ninja's Attack, and grants a TP bonus to WS when Utsusemi is active.
Lv.50 Ansatsusha II - Enhances Ansatsusha Effect further
Lv.75 Ansatsusha III - Enhances Ans Further
Lv.99 Ansatsusha IV - Enhances Ans Further.

*Base Trait Increases NIN Attack by 5, Adds 10TP Bonus. increases by 5 and 10 each level. for a maximum of +20 attack, +40TP bonus at level 99.
**Ansatsusha is "Assassin" In Japanese, Which is why it requires Shadow Images. Confuse the enemy.

Lv. 25 Jissen - Increases Accuracy and Parry rate when you are the Target of the Enemy
Lv. 50 Jissen II - Further Increases effect
Lv. 75 Jissen III - Further Increases Effect
Lv. 99 Jissen IV - Further Increases Effect

*Base trait raises accuracy by 5, and Parry Rate by 5%. Increases by 5Acc and 5% parry each level for a maximum of +20 Acc and +20% Parry rate.
**Jissen is Japanese for "Combat"

Lv.10 Teikouryoku - Increases Resistance to Poison, Paralyze, Slow, and Blind
Lv. 30 Teik II - Further Enhances Teik
Lv. 50 Teik III - Further Enhances Teik
Lv. 70 Teik IV - Further Enhances Teik
lv. 90 Teik V - Further Enhances Teik
*Using Ninja training, Ninjas are less likely to be harmed. Increases Resistance by 5%. Increases additional 5 per level for a maximum of 25% Resistance (1 in 4 Resist! Rate)
*Teikouryuko is Japanese for "Resistance"


Job Ability:

lv. 75 kawasu - Allows you to Parry the next Attack Directed at you.
Recast: 1 minute
Duration: 30 Seconds (or Til wears off)
*Works similar to Perfect Counter.
**"Kawasu" means "Parry"


Lv. 95 kyouritsu mukaeutsu - Consumes remaining shadow Images to increases Weaponskill Power.
Recast: 5 minutes
Duration: Next TP Move.
*Grants a 0.2fTP Bonus for each Shadow Image Consumed.
**Kyouritsu Mukaeutsu means "Joint Assault"

[Bulrogg]

My guess would be no. But I do know we are about tired of all you trolls dumping on threads/post you disagree with like it's your personal latrine. If you have no positive way to offer constructive criticism just leave already.

There is no reason you can not dispute an idea without being childish about it simply because you do not agree with it, even if you are one.

Stop trying to derail threads and go play WoW with the rest of the button mashing kids.

I still like the Perfect Parry JA idea. As well I am looking forward in hopes for an update to Throwing/Shurikens whether it leads to Throwing WS or not. I am still also for the idea of an ability that allows an actual clone to fight along side you. Something like this that I found in another thread.




Ninja: Striking Shadow Image - For the duration, as long as the Ninja has at least 1 Utsusemi shadow image active, a "pet" ninja clone will join them in battle. If Mijin Gakure is used while this is active, each shadow will add to the damage. (only one pet ninja clone will ever be present despite having multiple shadows active, however, it will continue to exist as long as any shadows are up, mimicking every move the Ninja makes, with lower power)


I'd like to see that as an job ability 3 minute active/5 minute timer vs 2hr. When shadows wipe clone disappears, recast re-calls a new clone.

I agree 3/5 Timer might be frowned up; maybe a 5 active / 15 recast instead.

[Karbuncle]

My guess would be no. But I do know we are about tired of all you trolls dumping on threads/post you disagree with like it's your personal latrine. If you have no positive way to offer constructive criticism just leave already.

There is no reason you can not dispute an idea without being childish about it simply because you do not agree with it, even if you are one.

Stop trying to derail threads and go play WoW with the rest of the button mashing kids.

I understand you're frustration, But if you come off as bad as them, You might get your post deleted or Reported for Flamming.

Just word it more understandably, Even if you're upset.

[Kensagaku]

Forgive me, I wasn't attempting to tear you down. If I wanted to say "STFU, that sucks!" I would. I really have no problem shooting down a stupid idea. Your idea wasn't stupid, but I felt that mimicking other jobs isn't the way to go with a realistic job adjustment. While jobs do share some traits, for the most part each has unique niches that they aim to fill with their setups.

Things like Krabknuckle's (:P) ideas are the sort of thing I'd look for; unique, while still enhancing those critical traits that make NIN its individual job. Keep it up. :D

To contribute, though honestly this one is sort of meh:

Job Ability
Kageimono (Poorly Translated: Shadow Casting)
Recast: 10 min.
Duration: 1 min or until an elemental ninjutsu is used.
Effect: Consumes all shadow images to repeat an elemental ninjutsu cast, once per shadow. If you lack sufficient tools, consume all shadows and cast equal to the number of tools available. Each cast is susceptible to resists.
Note: Does not stack with Futae.

Basically this is sort of a boost to Futae, which consumes two tools to add a 50% boost to your elemental nuke. This one instead consumes all of your shadows to recast the same spell, so essentially you can get anywhere from one extra cast (doubled damage if both are unresisted) to five extra casts with AF3+2 feet (6x the damage, assuming all of them go unresisted).

Hopefully this addresses the NIN nuke idea while maintaining a unique niche.

[wish12oz]

Some of us think ninja is fine, and adding a bunch of useless stuff would just make it worse, or is not worth the effort SE would have to put in. That is our "job adjustment wants," we want the job adjusted to stay the same as it is now. I've only seen 2 ideas in this whole thread that would not be completely useless, and I fell the need to state my opinion about it, same as you feel the need to say yours, that's the way the thread goes. If you don't like it, don't post here.

I'll even contribute my ideas for what would be useful!
Here's some useful stuff that could be added:
Crit damage bonus job trait.
Innin working from the front, because for any half decent ninja, you can't not tank.
10% more dual wield from job traits.

Here's some useless stuff:
All the fancy job abilities and anything to do with throwing listed in this and other threads.

EDIT: That job ability where you exchange damage taken with the mob would be funny, but is grossly overpowered, I have to admit that.

[Karbuncle]

Some of us think ninja is fine, and adding a bunch of useless stuff would just make it worse, or is not worth the effort SE would have to put in. That is our "job adjustment wants," we want the job adjusted to stay the same as it is now. I've only seen 2 ideas in this whole thread that would not be completely useless, and I fell the need to state my opinion about it, same as you feel the need to say yours, that's the way the thread goes. If you don't like it, don't post here.

I'll even contribute my ideas for what would be useful!
Here's some useful stuff that could be added:
Crit damage bonus job trait.
Innin working from the front, because for any half decent ninja, you can't not tank.
10% more dual wield from job traits.

Here's some useless stuff:
All the fancy job abilities and anything to do with throwing listed in this and other threads.

EDIT: That job ability where you exchange damage taken with the mob would be funny, but is grossly overpowered, I have to admit that.

ZOMG WHY YOU GIVE YER OPINION YOUR ELITEST BRO OMGZ

Also yes. Do you like my Ideas?!

I edited one of them ;;!

[Karbuncle]

Also, I Miss our Community Reps, Feels like its been so long since I've seen one in any thread :3

i wonder if They're allowed to have small-talk with us, Or is it more 'Business' than 'play'? wonder how much time they spend here as opposed to other things.

[Gnoir]

Forgive me, I wasn't attempting to tear you down. If I wanted to say "STFU, that sucks!" I would. I really have no problem shooting down a stupid idea. Your idea wasn't stupid, but I felt that mimicking other jobs isn't the way to go with a realistic job adjustment. While jobs do share some traits, for the most part each has unique niches that they aim to fill with their setups.

Things like Krabknuckle's (:P) ideas are the sort of thing I'd look for; unique, while still enhancing those critical traits that make NIN its individual job. Keep it up.

Forgive me. I wouldn't have known about this, save that I left my phone open to it. I wil make no excuses. In the surest sense of the word my reaction and words were wrong. You can tell I don't leave many posts, in here or any forum. I read alot but, never post. To be frank I have honestly no idea what a troll is other than the historical sense of the word. I am honestly guessing on the quote thing, well see if I get this right. I would like to say I apologize to Kensagku. I am normally a very quiet person. The only other person I have ever had dealings with on any forum is wish12oz. The information you provided me with has helped my understanding of game mechanics more than you know. I am very sorry if my hostile response has left everyone with a bad taste in regards to me.

[Shadobi]

Forgive me. I wouldn't have known about this, save that I left my phone open to it. I wil make no excuses. In the surest sense of the word my reaction and words were wrong. You can tell I don't leave many posts, in here or any forum. I read alot but, never post. To be frank I have honestly no idea what a troll is other than the historical sense of the word. I am honestly guessing on the quote thing, well see if I get this right. I would like to say I apologize to Kensagku. I am normally a very quiet person. The only other person I have ever had dealings with on any forum is wish12oz. The information you provided me with has helped my understanding of game mechanics more than you know. I am very sorry if my hostile response has left everyone with a bad taste in regards to me.

Nice post, usually don't see people apologizing.
I learned that the internet makes a lot of brave souls who wouldn't even in reality say two words to you if they saw you.
The flammers I call Voltron because theres always one lion (brave behind a computer talking crap) in always a few join and unite to feel special about themselves :mad: and when they do watch out thats when the flaming words(blazing Sword) get you into the mix but use total concentration like Daniel son in you'll me fine. :cool:

[JiltedValkyrie]

Job Ability
Kageimono (Poorly Translated: Shadow Casting)
Recast: 10 min.
Duration: 1 min or until an elemental ninjutsu is used.
Effect: Consumes all shadow images to repeat an elemental ninjutsu cast, once per shadow. If you lack sufficient tools, consume all shadows and cast equal to the number of tools available. Each cast is susceptible to resists.
Note: Does not stack with Futae.

Basically this is sort of a boost to Futae, which consumes two tools to add a 50% boost to your elemental nuke. This one instead consumes all of your shadows to recast the same spell, so essentially you can get anywhere from one extra cast (doubled damage if both are unresisted) to five extra casts with AF3+2 feet (6x the damage, assuming all of them go unresisted).

Hopefully this addresses the NIN nuke idea while maintaining a unique niche.

Fortunately, NIN can nuke extremely well and hold tank without ever engaging the mob. This is especially true in Abyssea. SE recently changed ninjutsu skill level to affect damage in a previous update. I often hit San nukes for over 1000 without MBing or using Futae. I've done over 3000 on a magic burst with futae. If I'm doing 3000 on a magic burst using 1.5x damage from futae, 6x would be extremely overkill (unless the casting time is prolonged). Although I can't say I'd mind an 18,000 damage nuke. Pretty expensive, too, but I'd use it if it just changed Futae to 100% instead of +50%.

[Darwena]

I want evrything wish12oz so the game will be freakin amazing and we will be happy and the all the nation in the world will be happy too.

Just in case, just to give you some Ex-pla-na-tion, the OP asked for relistic stuff WE want to have... Didn't reed the OP asking what Mr I feel like God behind a PC want to be happy...

So, if some PPL want to throw some Shuriken, Could they, please, ask for it in a post that what the purpose of... Just silly are the suposed "elitish" player that impose "THEYRE" way of view of the game and everything else for them is $h!T...

Neway... You will write another stuff how wrong am I and how godly you are and bla bla bla... Oh nice! Family Guys on TV... Cya!

[Kensagaku]

Fortunately, NIN can nuke extremely well and hold tank without ever engaging the mob. This is especially true in Abyssea. SE recently changed ninjutsu skill level to affect damage in a previous update. I often hit San nukes for over 1000 without MBing or using Futae. I've done over 3000 on a magic burst with futae. If I'm doing 3000 on a magic burst using 1.5x damage from futae, 6x would be extremely overkill (unless the casting time is prolonged). Although I can't say I'd mind an 18,000 damage nuke. Pretty expensive, too, but I'd use it if it just changed Futae to 100% instead of +50%.

o.o Nice. My Ninjutsu set's a bit weak atm, so I barely break 500s with San ninjutsu, maybe 800ish with an MB, which was why I proposed it. I honestly don't see many NIN use their nukes to any real effect, so I thought of it as evening out the balance a bit without removing the emphasis from their normal role.

[wish12oz]

I want evrything wish12oz so the game will be freakin amazing and we will be happy and the all the nation in the world will be happy too.

Just in case, just to give you some Ex-pla-na-tion, the OP asked for relistic stuff WE want to have... Didn't reed the OP asking what Mr I feel like God behind a PC want to be happy...

So, if some PPL want to throw some Shuriken, Could they, please, ask for it in a post that what the purpose of... Just silly are the suposed "elitish" player that impose "THEYRE" way of view of the game and everything else for them is $h!T...

Neway... You will write another stuff how wrong am I and how godly you are and bla bla bla... Oh nice! Family Guys on TV... Cya!

I would respond to you directly, but with your lack of ability to use the English language, I have a hard time understanding what you're saying. Sorry~

But this sort of stuff is pretty typical right? You said my name, I think you're trying to insult me, you can't communicate your ideas effectively, you don't know how to spell, you don't know the difference between your and you're, and you just give the impression of not knowing a thing about how the game works. If SE listened to people like you, I would quit. But my main idea here is that this is a direct form of communication with the people who make the game, and if I didn't tell them these ideas were dumb and speak for my side of the argument, I would be partly to blame if any of these terrible things got implemented.

All I have to say is, where are all of you people with relevant information in the threads people ask questions in, if you're so amazing and I'm garbage? Why am I the one answering questions like 'how do haste and DW affect weapon delay' and not you? Maybe you should follow your own advise, and go be productive instead of constantly trying to bash my ideas for how the job should work, I mean, based on every thread in this sub forum I'm the one with knowledge on the job, not you.

[Bulrogg]

If SE listened to people like you, I would quit.

May I use that as my signature? <.<



I still like the Perfect Parry JA idea. As well I am looking forward in hopes for an update to Throwing/Shurikens whether it leads to Throwing WS or not. I am still also for the idea of an ability that allows an actual clone to fight along side you. Something like this that I found in another thread.
Ninja: Striking Shadow Image - For the duration, as long as the Ninja has at least 1 Utsusemi shadow image active, a "pet" ninja clone will join them in battle. If Mijin Gakure is used while this is active, each shadow will add to the damage. (only one pet ninja clone will ever be present despite having multiple shadows active, however, it will continue to exist as long as any shadows are up, mimicking every move the Ninja makes, with lower power)

I agree 3/5 Timer might be frowned up; maybe a 5 active / 15 recast instead.

Still on the fence about JA Fade. Although I think it would be nice to see some sort of a boost to magic evasion.

I did like a few suggestions from Karbuncle's post.
Truthfully, I prefer Abilities that Think outside the box!

I am still hoping that SE will make an update to Utsusemi for when NINJA is main job the spell will work like it use to in regards its ability to block -aga's per shadow.

I'm not sure I agree with removing Yonin/Innin position proc; I'm curious of what SE intended with the position requirement to begin with. I would however like to see them on a Timer similar to Hasso/Seigan or LightArts/DarkArts; or make the effect of each un-dispelable(sp?)

[wish12oz]

May I use that as my signature? <.<



Go for it.

And I don't really know what SE was thinking with yonin/innin either, no good ninja who would actually benefit from innin is able to actually use it. The position requirement just makes it completely useless, which is exactly what ninja does not need more of; useless JAs that do nothing so SE can think "Ninja is ok now, we just updated it."

[Darwena]

I would respond to you directly, but with your lack of ability to use the English language, I have a hard time understanding what you're saying. Sorry~

But this sort of stuff is pretty typical right? You said my name, I think you're trying to insult me, you can't communicate your ideas effectively, you don't know how to spell, you don't know the difference between your and you're, and you just give the impression of not knowing a thing about how the game works. If SE listened to people like you, I would quit. But my main idea here is that this is a direct form of communication with the people who make the game, and if I didn't tell them these ideas were dumb and speak for my side of the argument, I would be partly to blame if any of these terrible things got implemented.

All I have to say is, where are all of you people with relevant information in the threads people ask questions in, if you're so amazing and I'm garbage? Why am I the one answering questions like 'how do haste and DW affect weapon delay' and not you? Maybe you should follow your own advise, and go be productive instead of constantly trying to bash my ideas for how the job should work, I mean, based on every thread in this sub forum I'm the one with knowledge on the job, not you.

I prefer going productive on job, or with my friend when I'm playing Hockey and such, Otherwise, when I'm playing video game, I still prefer being lazy, having fun and such. And sorry about my bad english, not my 1st langage, but at least I'm trying to comunicate in that second langage and make the best I can to write for it...

Neway I didnt want to bash you, or insult you... but just let you know that are ppl who "play" FFXI for the fun and such... not just elitish ppl who make mathematical and focus on all the tech about a "game". and again, Sorry about my Baaaaad english.

[Shadobi]

Shurikenjutsu Expertise

JOB TRAIT
Description: Grants 5 Dexterity 5 Agility on attributes and Critical hit damage on stackable shuriken equipped. Occasionally allows ranged attacks without consuming shurikens.
(Job Trait is only active on stackable shurikens equipped.)
Shuriken Juju Shuriken Manji Shuriken Fuma Shuriken Koga Shuriken


JOB ABILITY
SANGE (Revamped)
~Imbue stackable shurikens with elemental ninjutsu or foe-enfeebling ninjutsu tool.
~occasionally throws multiple shurikens at once.
Recast Time: 3:00
Duration: 1:00 (Ninja star Icon will show with element)

[wish12oz]

I prefer going productive on job, or with my friend when I'm playing Hockey and such, Otherwise, when I'm playing video game, I still prefer being lazy, having fun and such. And sorry about my bad english, not my 1st langage, but at least I'm trying to comunicate in that second langage and make the best I can to write for it...


http://catmacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/i_dont_even_cat.jpg?w=390&h=502

[Shadobi]

http://catmacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/i_dont_even_cat.jpg?w=390&h=502

I am in tears with your reply. I laughed so much. but its not his or her first language in there trying.

[Bulrogg]

JA: Seisha Seichuu (I think it means "Correct Shooting/Hit")

First while under the effect of this ability you are granted a Job Trait similar to Unlimited Shot. So we can make use of Nokizaru and other high level Ammo.

Second while under the effect of this ability all throwing ranged attacks will be embedded with an added effect of Provoke. Maybe this will help to make up for losing some DMG to perform the ranged attack since it would be like using provoke but with DMG too. (in before someone says "if I want to use provoke I'd use provoke" lets just keep going)

Thirdly if Sange is used it would still increase the DMG x #shadows but it would not: a) consume the shurikens because of the unlimited shot job trait. b) the added effect of provoke would also be increased x #shadows. c) shadows would not be consumed.

I'm not sure what the effect of Yonin/Innin would be on the new JA if any at all. Maybe.... if SE did remove the position requirement of Yonin/Innin then using Yonin would not change any effect of Seisha Seichuu. How ever the use of Innin would allow for it to Proc and also remove the added effect of Provoke. This way would could, if we chose, perform similar to a RNG or BLM by dealing damage safely from a distance when going up against mobs that are best to keep a distance from and still be able to get in for close combat without hindering the mêlée playing style.

2 minute duration with a recast timer of 15 minutes. merit 1 will reduce the recast down to 5 minutes. merit 2 will increase the duration of Ability to 3 minutes.

[Akujima]

Problem: A- in throwing
Problem: Lack of high level available/affordable shuriken
Solution: More Shuriken
Solution: Throwing Weapon Skills

Problem: No Jubaku: Ni
Solution: Jubaku: Ni

JA Additions: Perfect Parry, Some other Enmity gain/loss (as mentioned in an earlier post)

Fun Stuff: "Smokebomb" Ninjutsu (As far as what it does, idk. But it would be neat to have something like this :p)

[wish12oz]

Problem: A- in throwing
Problem: Lack of high level available/affordable shuriken
Solution: More Shuriken
Solution: Throwing Weapon Skills


SE already stated they could not add throwing weapon skills, years ago when they were actually going to do it. And if throwing weapon skills are inferior to katana WS, no one will use them. So there's no point to adding any of this.

A- throwing also not a problem, neither is A- evasion or katana, all these skills were put at that lvl to balance out ninja's skill set, since it has no many A skills.

[Akujima]

SE already stated they could not add throwing weapon skills, years ago when they were actually going to do it. And if throwing weapon skills are inferior to katana WS, no one will use them. So there's no point to adding any of this.

As I stated many times before, situational and circumstantial battles.

[Nikia]

Throwing WS meh...
More enfeebles such as Bind. Sleep ichi & ni. Dispel(light based).
Maybe a self haste or a attack up spell.
Make the 2hr less of a warp / weakness remover.
That is all

[wish12oz]

As I stated many times before, situational and circumstantial battles.

Know what would be better? switching to rng or blm during those times and not being useless/wasting SE's time, or just not being terrible in general since the only thing ninja cant DD tank atm is cuelebre, which you don't even need to kill on ninja, and if you did, you could get MAB atmas and nuke it down.

[Bulrogg]

Come on guys, you are arguing over the same thing in different threads. Please stop. Agree to dissagree and move on to another topic.


Are you fighting the same mob over and over? I have gone up against many mobs that are best kept distance from; and while keeping at a safe distance I toss a few :Ni/:San and yes; even shuriken.

If you aren't fighting a mob like that I see your point. But some people are and they would like to see an adjustment to some of Ninjas ranged attacking methods (Elemental and Throwing).

Is not fighting those mobs an excuse to have a closed mine and not see situations where a made adjustment can be useful?

I am more on the fence about throwing than ever before... but I would like to see (from both sides of the community) is the posters here stop imposing their playing style on everyone else. We have to get over the fact that not every person/party/alliance/linkshell fight/kite/kill the same mobs the same way.

All of this bickering and telling people to go do such-n-such or play another job is just a lot of negativity and going to get threads closed. That is why I keep asking people to bite their cheek in their replies. Make your point and hit reply before saying something that gets the thread closed or you banned.

What ever happened to "if can't say something nice...?" (I always preferred "speak like your grandmother is listening" cause my granny didn't put up with anything lol)

[Karbuncle]

I don't think I've ever come across a mob on NIN I felt i needed to be out of AoE range on.

Granted i Generally low man with ~4 people max and am the tank as such...

Also, Shuriken's Sweet spot is literally Melee range, If you're out of AoE range your Shuriken damage is going to blow chunks too.

I know throwing is sorta a weird wet dream, but the entire concept sucks, back at 75 there might have been a use for it, but at 90~99 Where a NIN has so much Dual wield/Haste gear, Throwing anything short of God-Winds is going to just hurt your DPS, and even then it probably still will.

I don't think i can even think of a proper comparison between NIN and Throwing being useless and another job/another ability.

I'm very open minded when it comes to adjustments, But i'm with Wish on this one, If you want adjustments to NIN, don't think about Shuriken... It works well for RNG cause thats rngs "Thing" and even they're kinda boned cause there is no Haste/March for Ranged attacks.

So unless we're given Easily accessible Shuriken with "Snapshot+50" and DMG:200+ Its not going to make it useful.

[Shadobi]

I don't think I've ever come across a mob on NIN I felt i needed to be out of AoE range on.

Granted i Generally low man with ~4 people max and am the tank as such...

Also, Shuriken's Sweet spot is literally Melee range, If you're out of AoE range your Shuriken damage is going to blow chunks too.

I know throwing is sorta a weird wet dream, but the entire concept sucks, back at 75 there might have been a use for it, but at 90~99 Where a NIN has so much Dual wield/Haste gear, Throwing anything short of God-Winds is going to just hurt your DPS, and even then it probably still will.

I don't think i can even think of a proper comparison between NIN and Throwing being useless and another job/another ability.

I'm very open minded when it comes to adjustments, But i'm with Wish on this one, If you want adjustments to NIN, don't think about Shuriken... It works well for RNG cause thats rngs "Thing" and even they're kinda boned cause there is no Haste/March for Ranged attacks.

So unless we're given Easily accessible Shuriken with "Snapshot+50" and DMG:200+ Its not going to make it useful.

Ninja does not need to be far to get bonus from throwing we still get the squarely bonus(not the max) if you move just a bit back in still able to hit the mob with katana's. I doubt most ninja know this... also not saying anything negative towards you whats so ever just stating what I know playing ninja =)

[Akujima]

I don't think i can even think of a proper comparison between NIN and Throwing being useless and another job/another ability.

I'm very open minded when it comes to adjustments, But i'm with Wish on this one, If you want adjustments to NIN, don't think about Shuriken... It works well for RNG cause thats rngs "Thing"

This is unbelievable. I'm talking about Improving something that has gone bad. Never once did I say that Throwing at this very moment is any good. But it seems to be the trend to just toss out and do away with a key feature ability (NIN has had throwing since the conception of the Final Fantasy Series) of this particular job. Im knocking my head against the wall...

Ninja's Throw Things.

Improve Throwing itself, don't get rid of it.

Done.

[Bulrogg]

I've already said throwing is situational in other threads, but that is ninja all together; situational. They have the ability to react to mobs in ways that other DD/tanks can't. Or at least that is how I've been playing it these past seven years.

I didn't literally mean making all ranged attacks from out AoE range. More or less staying on that threshold moving away to avoid moves and coming back to continue DMG/Debuff, keeping yourself on the hate list in case the other tank goes down.

But again I will say Throwing is situational. That being said I would like to see an update that would make it more than situational. Why? Maybe only because when I think of ninja's I think of Nunchaku and Shurikens. That's enough for me.

and speaking of Nunchaku....
new blunt weapon with NIN skill A- (cause thats just what we'd expect from SE) <.<
Dual weilding Nunchaku o.O!

[Darwena]

I've already said throwing is situational in other threads, but that is ninja all together; situational. They have the ability to react to mobs in ways that other DD/tanks can't. Or at least that is how I've been playing it these past seven years.

I didn't literally mean making all ranged attacks from out AoE range. More or less staying on that threshold moving away to avoid moves and coming back to continue DMG/Debuff, keeping yourself on the hate list in case the other tank goes down.

But again I will say Throwing is situational. That being said I would like to see an update that would make it more than situational. Why? Maybe only because when I think of ninja's I think of Nunchaku and Shurikens. That's enough for me.

and speaking of Nunchaku....
new blunt weapon with NIN skill A- (cause thats just what we'd expect from SE) <.<
Dual weilding Nunchaku o.O!


Nunchaku love the idea :) and why not DW tonfa also :) and don't forget Shuriken please, even if I'm the only one who would use it ;p

[wish12oz]

Since you're trying to argue this in like 8 threads, I'm posting the same response in all of them so I know you see it.

I'm gonna spell this out for you, try not to get lost, read it til you get it.
Manji Shuriken have a 192 delay.
Kannagi+Kamome have a combined (210+180) 390 delay.
When you hit the delay reduction cap of 80%, this becomes a new delay of 78.
78+78=156, you get slightly more then 2 melee attacks rounds per throw.(throwing delay is 192)
with apoc, /war, brutal, eponas you have triple attack+18%, double attack+18%, which means 54% of the time, you get an extra attack per melee round.
So at +54% melee attacks per round, every time you attack, you get 1 extra attack, because you attack twice every round.
you get slightly more then 2 attack rounds per throw, you get 3 attacks per round.
Your throwing damage needs to be slightly better then 6 melee attacks and give as much tp as 6 melee attacks to be on par with just meleeing.
Throwing comes no where near either of these 2 things, and never will, it's impossible unless they make haste affect ranged attacks.

Argue against me, go ahead.

[Darwena]

Oh come out with you're silly math all you want, I just don't care about it. I like shuriken, I like FFXI, I like Ninja and i like you're art (seriously). But harder you try to convince me how shuriken re bad, and more I would like to use them. :)

[Karbuncle]

Oh come out with you're silly math all you want, I just don't care about it. I like shuriken, I like FFXI, I like Ninja and i like you're art (seriously). But harder you try to convince me how shuriken re bad, and more I would like to use them. :)

Feel free to play this game however you want, You can enjoy it and find fun wherever you please. I respect this 100%. You are allowed to freely explore any aspect of the game you want! :)

But, Shuriken are less than desirable at the moment. They do offer a way to pull mobs however. They're fun toys too, and you have every right to use them.

But just because you hate math, does not mean you should insult those who do enjoy playing the job to its best potential!

Again, Enjoy the game however you want, But don't act like we're the bad guys here :)!


Also, For the sake of Argument, I already posted my Job Adjustment wants for NIN about some pages ago, You can go look at them. I liked them :|

[Bulrogg]

Can a mod please clean up the off topic/ToS post so it is easier to navigate and find the actual "Realistic Job adjustments wants!" as that is the thread title. To much bickering going on over petty play styles.

Back on topic.

I did like that guys idea to add a Job Trait 'shuriken attack' to our melee attacks the same way a Monk has a Job Trait to 'kick attack'. That way it would not interrupt anyones melee but add to their DPS the same way proc'ing a kick attack does.

[Karbuncle]

Can a mod please clean up the off topic/ToS post so it is easier to navigate and find the actual "Realistic Job adjustments wants!" as that is the thread title. To much bickering going on over petty play styles.

Back on topic.

I did like that guys idea to add a Job Trait 'shuriken attack' to our melee attacks the same way a Monk has a Job Trait to 'kick attack'. That way it would not interrupt anyones melee but add to their DPS the same way proc'ing a kick attack does.

You're just as guilty as the rest of us for continuing this. Also this thread is about realistic Job Adjustment Wants. its an open Discussion. Just because you don't like that their opinion is different from yours, you want them Silenced? How does that promote open discussion and exchange of Ideas. You may as well be saying "They Don't agree with me, Shut them up". thats unsporting any way you look at it.

Besides, I already Contributed Realistic Ideas and Wants :)! Its on page like 8.

Also, How would Shuriken Attack work? Would it be like Kick Attacks and just be an Animation of throwing, Or would you need to have consumable Ammo equipped?

Would it work with a Boomerang, or a Smart Grenade(something you dont want to throw?)

Curious, Because if its like Kick Attacks where its just an Animation of you throwing a Shuriken, It could only improve NIN's DPS and add the Element Of Shuriken (Even though Historically Ninjas never used Shuriken during Face-to-Face Combat). I think that would work.

However if it Consumed Ammo, It would prevent Ninjas from using some Useful ammo that's still tossable.

[Greatguardian]

I think it fits the thread title fine. The discussion has mainly been about how realistic the job adjustment wants of some player were.

Auto-Throw seems interesting, but it would mean choosing between Shuriken and some of NIN's better ammo pieces (Qirmiz Tathlum is just awesome). At least I am fairly sure something along those lines should be doable, too. My only real issue with it is that you're likely going to end up with mediocre throwing damage at best since you'll be geared for Melee TP. Having to sacrifice TP gear for Ranged Attack/Acc gear from the get-go is already going to shove the JT into the gutter.

That said, I'm of the mind that NIN doesn't really need much of an adjustment right now. Ninja shines whenever it's fighting weak mobs. This is why they're finally relevant in Abyssea. Whether or not the move out of Abyssea and into 90+ Overworld content means a move back to hard mobs is yet to be seen. One of two things can happen:

1) NMs/Mobs remain relatively weak compared to the player, and NIN remains top tier. The only real buffs they could give it that would mean anything are Critical Hit Damage and Critical Hit Rate. Adding more tiers of Dual Wield is unnecessary (And actually very detrimental in group scenarios) when NIN can already cap Delay Reduction with outside buffs.

2) NMs/Mobs become relatively strong compared to the player again, and NIN is shunted back to bottom tier. If this happens, NIN will definitely need to see Attack, Acc, and Crit hit/Dmg boosts in order to attempt to claw their way up the ladder. Katanas are low weapon rank weapons as well, which means NIN is stuck with a low fSTR cap.

Throwing may be fun, but it would not help NIN at all if the latter choice is what the Devs opt for with new content. Innin was nice in theory, but the fact of the matter is (as Wish12oz has pointed out many times) any NIN who takes proper advantage of the damage increase is going to be holding hate anyways, which nullifies the stance. Removing the mob placement aspects of Yonin/Innin would certainly help some. An ability similar to Mnk's AF3+2 Body Enhanced Impetus would also definitely help.

[Karbuncle]

Enhancing Yonin/Innin to work from anywhere would be a wonderful idea. It would definitely be a step in the right direction.

[Bulrogg]

I was thinking 'Job Trait: shuriken attack' would be just an animation so we could continue to use out range/ammo slots as we see fit.

While I think Yonin/Innin need some adjustment I'm hesitant to agree with the removal of the direction restriction. I am curious to know why the Devs placed it on the ability in the first place. Maybe their reasoning would break the ability in their eyes by removing the restriction.

But I do think Yonin/Innin could gain from separate timers and maybe the activation of one would reset the timer of the other. I'm just trying to think of a way to combat having the ability dispelled and stuck waiting on recast.

In all I don't think things should be changed much but am very curious to know where the Devs plan to go from here to ~99

[Khajit]

Making shurikens work similar to cor cards is about the only thing i can think of other than perhaps a jintusu/stance that lets you do a small barrage as a counter. Now that i know throwing ws is impossible it looks really hard to make it useful at all.

Um.. here's one.
Opportunist:If a monster no longer has you as it's main emnity target ninja automatically expends up to 5 shuriken as a ranged attack at the monster. There's obviously alot of tooling around with this to make sure it isn't overpowered. One thought I had is to make it a charged attack based on how many times the ninja was attacked in a row before the hate shift. Another is to make it activate in the event a monster that was previously engaged moves out of melee range.

[RoughRyder]

Alluring hawt Mithra ninja chick! http://i54.tinypic.com/dpd3qo.jpg http://i52.tinypic.com/2cwsaqx.jpg http://i54.tinypic.com/206j8k4.jpg

[axlzero]

All ninjitsu spells up to san, wider better easyer to make throwing weapons that are cheaper and easyer to get, weapons skills for ninja throwing stars, As for me change Mijin Gakure to a one hours ability or something and make ninjas new two hour a clone ability where the ninja turns to three of him and they repeat themselves in every way til the clones die. clones cannont be healed and have the same hp and abilities as the main if the main cast a spell on a target so do the clones if the main ws so do the clones if you throw something so do the clones if the main dies before the clones then a clone with the highest hp becomes the main. that would make ninja really cool

[wish12oz]

that would make ninja really cool

Know what else is really cool?
Coherent thoughts typed out well.

[Karbuncle]

"Throw Attacks" Doesn't sound like a bad idea Bull. It adds a "Throwing Element" To ninja that really helps the RP'ers, and does not hurt its DPS. So i wouldn't object to that.

The way i understand it is, It'd basically be like Kick Attacks? Random-Chance ~(10%) at end of Attack round. Not having it consume ammo is a good idea.

Perhaps as a way to not simply make it "Kick attacks", It could do damage based on your R.acc/R.atk instead of Acc/atk, Also it could give you ~10TP, same as 1 Attack round, as an added bonus.

If all else fails, Why not just add a ranged WS to NIN? Similar to Bora Axe. Here i'll even give you the Animation!

Ninja Throw Katana
Katana goes through Enemi, Big "Slash" explosion. Ninja Vanishes during
Ninja Reappears to grab Katana from ground (where it landed)
jumps back to starting spot.

alternative

Throws Katana (Right hand going from left to right) forward "Cuts" through enemy
Right hand comes from Right to left "Pulls Katana" back through enemy, another "Slash/Cut" effect+Explosion.

Congratulations, Ninja now has a Thrown Weaponskill :O!

I'm done my brain hurts :(

[wish12oz]

"Throw Attacks" Doesn't sound like a bad idea Bull. It adds a "Throwing Element" To ninja that really helps the RP'ers, and does not hurt its DPS. So i wouldn't object to that.

The way i understand it is, It'd basically be like Kick Attacks? Random-Chance ~(10%) at end of Attack round. Not having it consume ammo is a good idea.

Perhaps as a way to not simply make it "Kick attacks", It could do damage based on your R.acc/R.atk instead of Acc/atk, Also it could give you ~10TP, same as 1 Attack round, as an added bonus.


Even I wouldn't object to this one, as long as I don't have to lose qirmiz tathlum for it, or they add equally amazing and cheap throwing weapons to replace it. (which is lulz, cause they would never add cheap/easy to acquire shurikens)

[Karbuncle]

Also


Job Traits:
Lv.25 Ansatsusha - Raises the Ninja's Attack, and grants a TP bonus to WS when Utsusemi is active.
Lv.50 Ansatsusha II - Enhances Ansatsusha Effect further
Lv.75 Ansatsusha III - Enhances Ans Further
Lv.99 Ansatsusha IV - Enhances Ans Further.

*Base Trait Increases NIN Attack by 5, Adds 10TP Bonus. increases by 5 and 10 each level. for a maximum of +20 attack, +40TP bonus at level 99.
**Ansatsusha is "Assassin" In Japanese, Which is why it requires Shadow Images. Confuse the enemy.

Lv. 25 Jissen - Increases Accuracy and Parry rate when you are the Target of the Enemy
Lv. 50 Jissen II - Further Increases effect
Lv. 75 Jissen III - Further Increases Effect
Lv. 99 Jissen IV - Further Increases Effect

*Base trait raises accuracy by 5, and Parry Rate by 5%. Increases by 5Acc and 5% parry each level for a maximum of +20 Acc and +20% Parry rate.
**Jissen is Japanese for "Combat"

Lv.10 Teikouryoku - Increases Resistance to Silence, Paralyze, Slow, and Blind
Lv. 30 Teik II - Further Enhances Teik
Lv. 50 Teik III - Further Enhances Teik
Lv. 70 Teik IV - Further Enhances Teik
lv. 90 Teik V - Further Enhances Teik
*Using Ninja training, Ninjas are less likely to be harmed. Increases Resistance by 5%. Increases additional 5 per level for a maximum of 25% Resistance (1 in 4 Resist! Rate)
*Teikouryuko is Japanese for "Resistance"

Job Ability:

Lv. 95 kyouritsu mukaeutsu - Consumes remaining shadow Images to increases Weaponskill Power.
Recast: 5 minutes
Duration: Next TP Move.
*Grants a 0.2fTP Bonus for each Shadow Image Consumed. and 10TP bonus per shadow
**Kyouritsu Mukaeutsu means "Joint Assault"

So no one can say I didn't contribute :P!

[Greatguardian]

Even I wouldn't object to this one, as long as I don't have to lose qirmiz tathlum for it, or they add equally amazing and cheap throwing weapons to replace it. (which is lulz, cause they would never add cheap/easy to acquire shurikens)

I wouldn't mind if they made new Ammo recipes (Shuriken and Bullets alike, go COR!) which simply used expensive materials which are found within the smithing/GS lines. Right now, all this "Campaign-onry Material" BS in the new ammos just makes them impossible to craft in any sort of large quantity.

There's no way in hell any new Shuriken SE implements will be cheap. Ranged weapons have always been expensive as shit. But as long as it's possible to craft them from the ground up in some way, I'm sure someone will make them (Or, hell, NINs with 100 Smithing will make them for themselves too). It's not like Gil is hard to get anyways.

[Shin-Tsuchinoko]

Job Traits:

Lv.10 Teikouryoku - Increases Resistance to Poison, Paralyze, Slow, and Blind
Lv. 30 Teik II - Further Enhances Teik
Lv. 50 Teik III - Further Enhances Teik
Lv. 70 Teik IV - Further Enhances Teik
lv. 90 Teik V - Further Enhances Teik
*Using Ninja training, Ninjas are less likely to be harmed. Increases Resistance by 5%. Increases additional 5 per level for a maximum of 25% Resistance (1 in 4 Resist! Rate)
*Teikouryuko is Japanese for "Resistance"


I like this one, but an increased resistance to silence over poison would be better suited.

[Karbuncle]

I like this one, but an increased resistance to silence over poison would be better suited.

Noted~ and fixed.

Surprised no one mentioned the Joint assault one, I'd think a 1.0FTP Increase to your next WS would be liked >.>!

[Shin-Tsuchinoko]

To be honest it does look good, if your not tanking. And in conjunction with Innin for increase in DMG. But losing shadows while both timers are down is a big downside.

[Karbuncle]

To be honest it does look good, if your not tanking. And in conjunction with Innin for increase in DMG. But losing shadows while both timers are down is a big downside.

Admittedly it would be a bit more of a strategic Ability. Would have to make sure a timer is up.

Would be useful on a lot more of the "lax" NMs, like Scars/Visions area NMs.

[Shin-Tsuchinoko]

It would work really well with 2 or more tanks. It also can keep enmity balance onto both tanks, if the mob doesn't have a hate reset type ability. But most ppl are "lets smash its face in fast, then lets think of good strategic way to kill this thing."

[RoughRyder]

New ninja AF4 prototype concept ideas, http://postimage.org/image/2mktoaomc/full/ http://postimage.org/image/2mkwzddlw/full/ http://postimage.org/image/2ml6wlgkk/full/

[Cdryik]

I'd like to get the same Job trait that have blm and drk when landing a spell (tools for us) they get back some TP.

We could be some decent ranged DD, throwing spells get 100% TP and then we could use a throwing WS to stay in range.

Some things i wish to see (but probably never be in), is make utsusemi Ni only use as main job while you can get Innin/Yonin as sub job instead.

_______________
What Yonin offer to others:

Enmity / Counter (good monk tank !) / Evasion / enemy critical hate - (good for blood tank like paladin or even a war).

What Innin offer :

Accuracy and Critical also less enmity


______________

[Orenwald]

I'd like to get the same Job trait that have blm and drk when landing a spell (tools for us) they get back some TP.

We could be some decent ranged DD, throwing spells get 100% TP and then we could use a throwing WS to stay in range.

Some things i wish to see (but probably never be in), is make utsusemi Ni only use as main job while you can get Innin/Yonin as sub job instead.

_______________
What Yonin offer to others:

Enmity / Counter (good monk tank !) / Evasion / enemy critical hate - (good for blood tank like paladin or even a war).

What Innin offer :

Accuracy and Critical also less enmity


______________

Yonin only adds counter when you have the NIN AF3 legs :(

[Cdryik]

Oh, damn right :p

[Gravionblack]

Yonin only adds counter when you have the NIN AF3 legs :(

And no shadows.

[Kuroganashi]

AS A MAIN JOB NINJA, I see this 20 RULES MUST BE FOLLOWED:

# 1 = Make Katana A+
# 2 = Make Evasion A+
# 3 = Make More NINJUSTSU: NI
# 4 = Make NINJUSTSU: Dispell
# 5 = Make NINJUSTSU: Silence
# 6 = Increase the "Potency" of NINJUSTSU (Both DMG and Effect)
# 7 = Increase the "Potency" of "Futae" , "Yonin" and "Innin"
# 8 = Increase the "TIME" Both "Monomi" and "Tonko" would Stay up for
# 9 = Increase the "TIME" Enhancing NINJUTSU would Stay up for
# 10 = Increase NINJA's ACCURACY / CRITICAL HIT RATE / CRITICAL HIT DMG / EVASION / PARRING Bonus Applied as a Job Trait
# 11 = Increase NINJA's WEAPON SKILL DAMAGE
# 12 = Make so "Blade: HI" is not out damaged by "Blade: Jin" (That just looks BAD)
# 13 = Make so The RELIC Might be worth something
# 14 = Make so NINJA gets more "Ninja's Tool Expertise" (+25% Yonin / +25% Merit / +33% Hands = only 83% ><)
# 15 = Make so NINJA gets more "Dual Wield" Job Traits (Dual Wield +55% / Haste+27% Atm and still feel SLOW ><)
# 16 = Make so NINJA gets more "Store TP" 9~11 TP / hit is WAY TOO WEAK X.x
# 17 = Make so NINJA gets something Useful for Weapon Skill Damage Like a Job Ability or Something (Job Trait)
# 18 = Make so NINJA gets Some form of "QUICK MAGIC" or "QUICK CAST" or "FAST CAST" for Ninjutsu
# 19 = Make so NINJA gets this NINJUTSU or JOB ABILITY (with a Fast Recast)(like 0:15) that would show "Enemy's Weakness to Weapon Type / Magic Type / DMG Type"
# 20 = Give NINJA something like "Quadrupal Attack" Job Trait (+25% or more at lvl 90) Seems Fair Since NINJA's are "THE SPECIAL FORCES ASSASSINS"


T h a n k Y o u , For Reading this and Taking into Consideration

[Juxtaposition]

Bro, just stop playing. I don't think this job (game?) is for you.

[Catsby]

# 1 = Make Katana A+


I agree.


# 2 = Make Evasion A+
Sure but this isn't as much of an issue with Yonin and shadows...


# 3 = Make More NINJUSTSU: NI

Yeah I agree again. Would be nice to finally fucking get Jubaku NI.


# 4 = Make NINJUSTSU: Dispell
wait a second...


# 5 = Make NINJUSTSU: Silence
hey now...


# 6 = Increase the "Potency" of NINJUSTSU (Both DMG and Effect)
have you ever tried a int/mab build?


# 7 = Increase the "Potency" of "Futae" , "Yonin" and "Innin"
I would just change how they work. It's kind of dumb that you need to be behind / in front for these to work. It's also kind of dumb that you spend 2 tools to get a 50% boost.


# 8 = Increase the "TIME" Both "Monomi" and "Tonko" would Stay up for
They last for several minutes... I'm not sure what the problem is.


# 9 = Increase the "TIME" Enhancing NINJUTSU would Stay up for
Are you talking about migawari because watching monster behavior is totally up to the player. It's really not that hard to judge when to put up the spell and avoid that really powerful attack.


# 10 = Increase NINJA's ACCURACY / CRITICAL HIT RATE / CRITICAL HIT DMG / EVASION / PARRING Bonus Applied as a Job Trait
you already said this. Also parry hardly ever goes off because it contends with face tanking, evasion, shadows and a 5% chance to go off regardless of skill.


# 11 = Increase NINJA's WEAPON SKILL DAMAGE
Ninja isn't about weaponskill damage. Your ratio should be something like 60-70 melee to 40-30 weaponskills or you are doing it wrong. Moreso with relic, mythic, empyrean.


# 12 = Make so "Blade: HI" is not out damaged by "Blade: Jin" (That just looks BAD)
When has this ever happened? Probably only when you miss Hi and in that case it's a fluke.


# 13 = Make so The RELIC Might be worth something
we know. Also there is plenty of intrinsic value to relics.


# 14 = Make so NINJA gets more "Ninja's Tool Expertise" (+25% Yonin / +25% Merit / +33% Hands = only 83% ><)
really now, only 83%?


# 15 = Make so NINJA gets more "Dual Wield" Job Traits (Dual Wield +55% / Haste+27% Atm and still feel SLOW ><)
Haha.. ok now you have to be trollin'


# 16 = Make so NINJA gets more "Store TP" 9~11 TP / hit is WAY TOO WEAK X.x
It doesn't matter if the bulk of your damage is DoT. It also matters less if you can maintain aftermath.


# 17 = Make so NINJA gets something Useful for Weapon Skill Damage Like a Job Ability or Something (Job Trait)
you mean like an aftermath effect?


# 18 = Make so NINJA gets Some form of "QUICK MAGIC" or "QUICK CAST" or "FAST CAST" for Ninjutsu
With slow, paralyze and stuns there is no need.


# 19 = Make so NINJA gets this NINJUTSU or JOB ABILITY (with a Fast Recast)(like 0:15) that would show "Enemy's Weakness to Weapon Type / Magic Type / DMG Type"
...


# 20 = Give NINJA something like "Quadrupal Attack" Job Trait (+25% or more at lvl 90) Seems Fair Since NINJA's are "THE SPECIAL FORCES ASSASSINS"
haha.. oh wow.

[Bagel]

Best post ever

Haven't laughed that hard in a while. Thank you sir. I request a youtube version of this list of rules with you screaming them into the camera while wearing a "Ninja Special Forces Assassin" T-shirt.

[Kuroganashi]

well , what ever you guys want to say XD

I stand by what i posted XD

[Cdryik]

Increase the "TIME" Both "Monomi" and "Tonko" would Stay up for
They last for several minutes... I'm not sure what the problem is.

They should atleast put the duration of the sneak/invis effect based on ninjutsu skill, it's sad a whm can have sneak/invis up for 10~20min and we are stuck with 3min sneak, 5min invis...
Even, give the spectral Jigs (dnc move), based on dagger skill.


# 1 = Make Katana A+

I don't care about the A- only, but it would be nice to have some more accuracy to counter the loss from Yonin (Accuracy Bonus II maybe ?)
Or a new job trait, that give Accuracy bonus III during daytime and Evasion bonus III during Nighttime. (like that we could get a better use to Innin, using it the nighttime to counter the loss of Evasion from job trait, and Yonin the daytime to counter the loss of accuracy).

[Vazerus]

well , what ever you guys want to say XD

I stand by what i posted XD

You so silly kuro, you so silly.

[Kuroganashi]

You so silly kuro, you so silly.

stick with the thread instead of trying to offend me bud XD

You can do a thread for that later

this is about "NINJA IMPLEMENTS" N O T About KUROGANASHI :P

[Vazerus]

Alright then; I don't think NIN really needs much except Sneak + Paralyze :Ni. It's already an amazing job inside and outside abyssea.

[Kuroganashi]

Alright then; I don't think NIN really needs much except Sneak + Paralyze :Ni. It's already an amazing job inside and outside abyssea.

True that , but It be rly nice to have something that would boost up even more

[wish12oz]

It's already an amazing job, but only when fighting weak mobs.

Fixed that for you~

[Vazerus]

Fixed that for you~

You've got me there; I haven't tried voidwatch yet.

[Kuroganashi]

NIN NEEDS MORE POWER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Diemond]

Here are a few ideas I've had, based on past SE comments about the direction they want to take Ninja.

New Job Ability: Image Trickery
Duration: 30seconds
Recast: 2min
The Ninja uses shadow images to change the appearance of the other party members so the enemy thinks all actions are done by the ninja. (no graphic changes needed in-game)
* All enmity created by any party member during this ability is given to the Ninja.
* Enmity gained depends on the party's actions.
* Requires at least 1 utsusemi shadow to be active to gain enmity from another's actions.
* Hate reducing abilities used during this effect do not impact the ninja's enmity. (High Jump and Super Jump do not reduce the Ninja's enmity, for example. Thief's Accomplice type abilities should have no effect on the ninja)

---

New Ninjutsu: Smokescreen
Duration: 30 seconds (can be canceled)
Recast: 1 min
The ninja throws a smoke bomb that creates a thick cloud of smoke, obscuring the ninja from view.
* Drops all enmity while in effect.
* When the effect wears off, more enmity is gained than was shed. (amount enhanceable through enmity+/- merits/gear)
* Enmity gained from the Ninja's offensive actions during the effect is not "gained" until the effect wears off.
* The sairui-ran tool may be used for this ninjutsu in addition to Kurayami.

---

New Job Trait: Fade
When a Ninja takes physical damage, their evasion increases for a brief time.
Tier 1 Level 20: +5 evasion
Tier 2 Level 40: +10 evasion
Tier 3 Level 60: +15 evasion
Tier 4 Level 80: +20 evasion

* It's +5 per tier, total of 20, not 50 (just in case there's any confusion)
* This is a very short effect, but it should last long enough to help evade at least the next enemy attack.
* Gear could be added to enhance Fade's duration and amount of evasion.

I thought my ideas where good but yours are great!

[Cpt_Planet]

True that , but It be rly nice to have something that would boost up even more

its always nice to boost something up alittle more, but it dosnt make it right and/or balanced >.>; most of the suggestions would just brake the job making it to powerful thus you'll have nin bandwagoners... besides missing Ni spells, that whole yonin innin behind infront bs, and the fact that elemental:san spells are merit to obatin even after the whole cap increase. i think nin job is fine just the way it is. change elemental:san spells to obtainable by a certain lv, change yonin & innin to work positioned anywhere, finally give nin's missing Ni spells that are owed to us (paralye/posion), maybe add new ichi/ni or san spells to the merit section. idf SE can implicate this Nin would be golden