Trust, is extremely annoying

[Karah]

I realize, that it was basically the only saving grace for the game as it is, with everyone "having" to solo everything.

But these trusts are like the new BSTs

EVERYWHERE I go, these things are out. They're always in the way, and it's always some guy killing things as slow as humanly possible.

I used to be able to /sea area, cool, there's only 1 person there, no possible way that he'd get in my way.... but now every ONE person, is actually 4 with this trust crap.

Just wanted to vent, I think it's a pretty stupid thing, but its the only way the people that use them are capable of accomplishing things, so "necessary evil" I guess.

But it's still fail. Really, you're loosing money by doing it, all the trusts are is npc'd 2boxes. Instead of using them, should've had everyone pay for the second account and accomplish the same goal.

But really, I'd just like a way to not even have them visible on my screen. /ignorepet doesn't work, is there some new command to make them untargetable?

[Demonjustin]

Really hope you're kidding, because if your really upset about this, thats just sad.

[Twille]

Get over it. Trust NPCs are a positive addition to the game.

[Karah]

Yes, it's a positive for the people who are so bad that they need help with the things trust does, I cannot disagree.

However it's extremely annoying to see them EVERYWHERE.

Where's all the people I expect to see come in and say it's an mmo, we should be playing with each other not NPCs?

[Calatilla]

I can't understand why people use them in wildskeeper reive but other than that does it really make that much difference? They're fun to play with at certain times, I levelled my geomancer in crawlers nest using Trust NPC`s, they have their uses.

[Elphy]

Yes, it's a positive for the people who are so bad that they need help with the things trust does, I cannot disagree.

However it's extremely annoying to see them EVERYWHERE.

Where's all the people I expect to see come in and say it's an mmo, we should be playing with each other not NPCs?

Being bad has NOTHING to do with it. Trust is great, esp for low level or new players, since book burns and exp pts are practically non-existant, they increase your exp gain at low and mid levels incredibly. As for higher lvl stuff, it just makes things like reives go faster when you are solo, esp for those who are undergeared due to returning or being new. If you don't like them I think the only thing you can do is grin and bear it cause you may be in a very small minority on this one.

The simple fact that you think they are only for bad players says more about yourself as a gamer than those who use them.

[dasva]

What is annoying is when everyone is together doing the same thing and refusing to team up and instead throwing out tons of trust npcs and lagging the hell out of anything. I mean isn't the point of trust when there is no one else to do the stuff with?

[Demonjustin]

Trust to an extent is an answer to Dualboxing, people dual boxed, just now everyone can do it which is how it should be, balanced.

[Demonjustin]

To correct your inaccuracies in your statements, Multi-boxing and Gear Swapping do not require Third Party Programs at all.

[Kwate]

To correct your inaccuracies in your statements, Multi-boxing and Gear Swapping do not require Third Party Programs at all.

Only if you want to do it effectively...

[Demonjustin]

I never said they aren't more efficient, just that they are not required. People seem to always make the leap from Gear Swapping to being something they do not do, to Gear Swapping being illegal due to Third Party Programs. That is a jump that is factually incorrect, I know of people who do not play with TPPs but they do macro and gear swap, I also know people who Multi-Box without TPPs.

[dasva]

Oh lordy we have a preacher in the forums. If people do things they can't or wont do they must be evil no good cheaters. Burn the witches!

Might be noted but the first dual boxer I met dual boxed with a computer and ps2 at the same time and still did a better job than most players just playing one character. Especially those that would rather call cheat than step up their game. Avesta was doing full gear swaps for every spell and ws and back to idle and full set spams when he was eating tp moves running etc on a ps2 before most of those third party tools were available. Hell if you go back to the old vids of him you can actuallly see him going thru the maccro bars hitting multiple maccros to do 1 thing

[Elphy]

Only if you want to do it effectively...

I use 0 third party programs and I am quite effective at gear swapping...

[Kwate]

My point being, SE limits you to 6 lines for a mac, if you need to swap more than 6 pieces you need to hit 2 mac buttons, that's not very effective, but again that is subjective. Don't want to derail a thread over a pissing contest.

[Elphy]

My point being, SE limits you to 6 lines for a mac, if you need to swap more than 6 pieces you need to hit 2 mac buttons, that's not very effective, but again that is subjective. Don't want to derail a thread over a pissing contest.

I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest :) just making a statement lol its all good

I do have to hit ~3 macros for a standard gear swap but over the years I have become so accustomed to it that its second nature.

Frankly with all the problems third party programs can bring to the table I never bothered with them.

[dasva]

My point being, SE limits you to 6 lines for a mac, if you need to swap more than 6 pieces you need to hit 2 mac buttons, that's not very effective, but again that is subjective. Don't want to derail a thread over a pissing contest.

It didn't used to be as bad but awhile back when they updated the maccro bar and stuff it increased the delay it takes to pop up making it take longer to fire off multiple maccros. Still doable but you will lose efficiency compared to swapping all at once. But yes SE really needs to fix that 6 line limit BS. There is no good reason for it especially when you consider the fact just how many peices of gear they introduce that have such small niche uses that they are completely worthless unless you either use some kind of extended maccros or use 2-3 per action and go thru 2-3 maccro bars per job some alot more. I think more people have gone to 3 party tools because of that than anything else. Well except maybe being able to play in windowed mode before SE finally released there version

[Edyth]

Yes, it's a positive for the people who are so bad that they need help with the things trust does, I cannot disagree.

However it's extremely annoying to see them EVERYWHERE.

If you're not using Trust NPCs when solo, you aren't fighting at your full potential. Your statement could be modified to say, "Gear swap macros are good for helping bad players do better, but the blinking annoys me," or "Oatixur is good for monks who are bad at dealing damage, but the look of them annoys me," or "Raise spells are good for white mages who are bad at curing, but seeing people get raised annoys me." All of those statements get at the same point: you are annoyed by people utilizing what is available to maximize their effectiveness.

[Afania]

Trust to an extent is an answer to Dualboxing, people dual boxed, just now everyone can do it which is how it should be, balanced.

Not really dualboxing, no. I did quest another day and unlocked NPC, summoned it and they have extremely poor performance in combat due to lack of gear swap, using shitty WS, cast useless spells and so on.

Whether I Summon them or not, I still kill kamihr drift mob just as fast without them. Dual box>>>>>> loltrust.

[Afania]

My point being, SE limits you to 6 lines for a mac, if you need to swap more than 6 pieces you need to hit 2 mac buttons, that's not very effective, but again that is subjective. Don't want to derail a thread over a pissing contest.

You're not starting a pissing contest, you're stating the obvious.

Of course hitting 2 macro is less effective than hitting 1 macro using tools. But for ppl without 3rd pt tool or play on console, hitting 2 macro is the only choice if they want to play decently, and still way more effective than no swap at all. What else do you expect from none 3rd pt tool users? Just don't swap cuz it's not effective?

[dasva]

Not really dualboxing, no. I did quest another day and unlocked NPC, summoned it and they have extremely poor performance in combat due to lack of gear swap, using shitty WS, cast useless spells and so on.
Also there stats change based on the ilvl gear you are wearing at the time. So if you ever tp in something that isn't the highest ilvl because it might not be the best to use they are even weaker. If you swap out to something lower they retroactively get weaker.

And yeah as stated the AIs aren't the brightest.... would be nice if we could sorta adjust the AIs like our companion npc. Or hell maybe something like gambit system.

[Demonjustin]

Not really dualboxing, no. I did quest another day and unlocked NPC, summoned it and they have extremely poor performance in combat due to lack of gear swap, using shitty WS, cast useless spells and so on.

Whether I Summon them or not, I still kill kamihr drift mob just as fast without them. Dual box>>>>>> loltrust.Im sorry that the brand new system that was just released does not instantly match up to the abilities of a real player upon release.

Play at any sort of lower level than Adoulin and you will see they are very powerful, its only once item levels are introduced to the mix that they begin to fall so short of the mark and reach the point of being worthless, even then, its not quite true. Using melees in high level areas like Kamihr you will not see them do much due to the fact they have not been fixed for that level yet, their accuracy falls off very poorly and their attack is seemingly horrible with them hitting for very low numbers such as 50s with daggers in the case of Nanaa.

However, if you use Shantotto, Ajido, and Kupipi as your party you can see a nice difference so long as you afford them the MP they require. I soloed merits for Ark Angels earlier for instance and for my party I used these 3 NPCs, so long as I kept them Refreshed full time, Kupipi made healing effortless, paralyze was never on for more than 3 seconds, and my BLMs dealt enough damage to combined total up to about 70% of my overall damage because they spam nukes for 1.5~2k.

So long as the updates coming in February(which are supposed to be fairly large it seems) do enough to improve them at level 100+ and the AI improves, we could easily see this become dual boxing for people who don't normally. Till then, its a hell of a lot better than having literally 0 assistance at all like people had before Trust was added.

[Karah]

What is annoying is when everyone is together doing the same thing and refusing to team up and instead throwing out tons of trust npcs and lagging the hell out of anything. I mean isn't the point of trust when there is no one else to do the stuff with?

This is basically what I was really trying to get at.

It's just extremely annoying to see all these trusts... when they're REALLY not necessary... I mean come on, do you really need 3 people to help you kill 20 mandragoras in your ilvl 119 gear in ceizak... serously?

That's what I'm talking about, its a CRUTCH and a huge one, people think they need the Trusts FOR EVERYTHING. It's pathetic.

[Afania]

Also there stats change based on the ilvl gear you are wearing at the time. So if you ever tp in something that isn't the highest ilvl because it might not be the best to use they are even weaker. If you swap out to something lower they retroactively get weaker.

And yeah as stated the AIs aren't the brightest.... would be nice if we could sorta adjust the AIs like our companion npc. Or hell maybe something like gambit system.

The only none IL gear I TP in was Thaumas body, everything else besides accessory are pretty high. Weapon was 119 too.

No stat change can save them if they're not gear swapping/using right WS.





Im sorry that the brand new system that was just released does not instantly match up to the abilities of a real player upon release.


More like dev still have 0 idea about gear swapping and gear optimization concept in 2013.

[Demonjustin]

No stat change can save them if they're not gear swapping/using right WS.

More like dev still have 0 idea about gear swapping and gear optimization concept in 2013.Except the very real possibility they make their stats just a fusion of the two and fix the WS prioritization. Not all too hard to believe they would do such a thing in the course of its updates especially since some of it they said was scheduled to be adjusted in the update coming in February. Gear swaps are only needed if you need to give yourself more stats for something, more Haste for TP, more STR for WS, so on, but is they just cap a NPCs Haste and give them a ton of STR at the same time, no need to swap, would be stupid, all they have to do is increase their base stats as you level and its fine. Past that, again I say, its better than the nothing we had.

[Camiie]

Here's a TLDR for the OP: "People play different than me so they are bad and stupid. They should stop and play my way or GTFO."

[mattkoko]

I agree it can be annoying. But I believe Karah handles it the wrong way. It is not trust that annoys me. It is how people use it that annoys me. People now refuse to team up because they have trust NPCs. Trust is suppose to be easier for you when you solo. When you don't have anyone there to help. Now, everyone is doing the same thing but refusing to team up beacue of trust NPCs. I love the idea of the trust system. But the player base abuses it and therefore, pushes players away from each other. It should only be used when teaming up is not an option. But that is just my opinion.

[Demonjustin]

Once they allow us to use them in parties the teaming up issue should be resolved as well.

[Karah]

I agree it can be annoying. But I believe Karah handles it the wrong way. It is not trust that annoys me. It is how people use it that annoys me. People now refuse to team up because they have trust NPCs. Trust is suppose to be easier for you when you solo. When you don't have anyone there to help. Now, everyone is doing the same thing but refusing to team up beacue of trust NPCs. I love the idea of the trust system. But the player base abuses it and therefore, pushes players away from each other. It should only be used when teaming up is not an option. But that is just my opinion.

You said it perfectly.

Trust is NOT needed EVERYTIME you go outside town. Yet, that's exactly how it's being used. It's retarded.

Good way to fix it, is to limit it's use.

Would modify the title to "the way people use trust is extremely annoying" but that's semantics.

[Camiie]

Lately when no one else in my circle of friends is on, I will go to an unoccupied area and solo for merits. Why would I NOT summon my NPCs for faster and more efficient killing? I thought doing things as quickly and efficiently as possible was the sign of a good player. It's what I've always been told in regards to XP and completing content. /shrug

[Karah]

I have no problem with someone using them when theyre no where near me getting in my way, totally different.

It's when these morons roll up where I am, with their party of gimptrust that is annoying as hell.

[Demonjustin]

You see Camiie, its only good to be efficient when you're not annoying other people with your methods of being more efficient in some way, like for instance, being in the presence of someone else.

^that was sarcasm btw.

[dasva]

Yeah I can't tell you how many times I've gone to do a time limit RoE quest and there are 5-6 other people there doing the same thing all solo all with trust... luckily I got a couple of other characters with me so I can blow past them faster than them. Hell faster than all of them put together lol. But would be so much better party of 6. I could so see people doing nm magian trials and not being willing to pt up now. Well more so now lol

[Aguro]

I think trust should be restricted and only be allowed when teaming is not an option and should not be allowed when you're just level grinding. I just came back to this game after 4 years and I'm not high level in the slightest. I like to grind levels. The harder a game is the better in my opinion. Leveling is WAY too easy now and I think it takes away from the game. It would be nice to have in certain situations, where fighting a really tough monster solo is virtually impossible, but now I don't even have to look at the screen when I'm fighting. It really makes the game pretty boring.

[Demonjustin]

So basically what you're saying is, you have a system you can use but are not forced to, and do not like it because it makes things easier, and rather than just, I don't know, not using it? You don't want anyone at all to be able to use it whether they want to or not except in situations you deem fit, just because you don't want to use it at all times?

Do you not understand how stupid & selfish that sounds?

[Concerned4FFxi]

my two major issues with trust that has yet to be addressed is the lag in wkr and kupipi casting protectra 5 in a wkr and it overwritting my merited protectra 5 (kupipi is NOT in my party)

[Camiie]

Yeah I can't tell you how many times I've gone to do a time limit RoE quest and there are 5-6 other people there doing the same thing all solo all with trust... luckily I got a couple of other characters with me so I can blow past them faster than them. Hell faster than all of them put together lol. But would be so much better party of 6. I could so see people doing nm magian trials and not being willing to pt up now. Well more so now lol

Do you offer to team up with them?


I think trust should be restricted and only be allowed when teaming is not an option and should not be allowed when you're just level grinding.

How is that even possible?


I just came back to this game after 4 years and I'm not high level in the slightest. I like to grind levels. The harder a game is the better in my opinion. Leveling is WAY too easy now and I think it takes away from the game. It would be nice to have in certain situations, where fighting a really tough monster solo is virtually impossible, but now I don't even have to look at the screen when I'm fighting. It really makes the game pretty boring.

You can still go out there and grind mobs to your heart's content. You don't have to sign up for FOV or GOV pages. You don't have to level in Abyssea. You can find tough mobs to fight solo. What are you even talking about?

Do you want the game to hold your hand and make a party for you like WoW? Find like minded people and do the things you want to do! If you can't find like minded people then maybe your ideas aren't really that popular. That's fine. Some of mine aren't either, but that's not a game design flaw.

The game still does offer what you want, it just doesn't force people to play that way anymore. You have the potential to be happy and so do people who want to play differently. I don't see that as a bad thing at all.

[Renaissance2K]

The "using Trust when they don't need them" argument is silly. If I'm farming for drops or there's nobody around doing the same thing as me, I'm going to summon them. No sense in digging with a shovel when I have a bulldozer available, even if I know I'm capable of doing the former.

The only place where they get really annoying is in Wildskeeper Reives, where it discourages people from teaming up to take down the boss. WKR already had incentive issues when it came to killing fodder mobs, but this just made it worse.

[dasva]

Do you offer to team up with them?
Sometimes. Usually met with no response.

[dasva]

The "using Trust when they don't need them" argument is silly. If I'm farming for drops or there's nobody around doing the same thing as me, I'm going to summon them. No sense in digging with a shovel when I have a bulldozer available, even if I know I'm capable of doing the former.

The only place where they get really annoying is in Wildskeeper Reives, where it discourages people from teaming up to take down the boss. WKR already had incentive issues when it came to killing fodder mobs, but this just made it worse.

It's also rather annoying when 10 people with 3 npcs each are all farming the same mobs not for drops or xp but just for kills that the entire pt gets credit for...

[Demonjustin]

It's also rather annoying when 10 people with 3 npcs each are all farming the same mobs not for drops or xp but just for kills that the entire pt gets credit for...I doubt anyone condones this sort of action, but just because some people are fools and asses with this system does not mean the system itself is bad, it means the people using it are bad, or rather, the people using it are, shall we say... intelligence deprived.

[Karah]

I doubt anyone condones this sort of action, but just because some people are fools and asses with this system does not mean the system itself is bad, it means the people using it are bad, or rather, the people using it are, shall we say... intelligence deprived.

That was the entire point of the thread.

[Camiie]

Fighting over camps is nothing new and has nothing to do with the Trust system.

[dasva]

No but the system has exacerbated the problem

[Camiie]

Well Trust is here to stay so it's time to adapt. In you're truly a better player than those who rely on Trust you'll find better camps then they could ever hope to handle.

[Karah]

If gimps want to use gimptrust then they should be the ones to find exotic camps and not get the luxury of the easiest and quickest, since they're using an entire party to do so.

[Demonjustin]

Take your self centered attitude elsewhere.

I am not gimp, I use Trust unless people offer to team up, why? No reason not to, if that bothers you, that's to bad.

Also, if Trust is 'gimptrust' as you call it and its so bad then really a gimp player using it should be just as good as you at very best, which means they likely need the easier camps more than you do now don't they? Especially when you, a non-gimp as you seem to think of yourself as, can use the same Trust system to get that extra power making you do even better in those harder areas.

[Karah]

Really couldn't care less what gimps need tbh

The last thing we need is more "in the way people".

Play without training wheels and you might actually accomplish something.

If abyssea was allowed to be used on the new challenges it wouldn't be nearly as big of an annoyance, but when you see 30 trust npcs killing mandragoras it makes my blood boil.
Literally disgusting.

[Demonjustin]

So find another place to go, there are plants all over the game, Ceizak, Yorcia, Boyahda, Woodlands, and more, there are no reasons that someone else should go somewhere that do not apply to you just as well except you feel like your special and better and thus deserve to force them to move rather than them bother you with their presence. If you can not live in the areas you goto, shut up, use Trust, get your 2 WHMs and your BRD, cast them, and kill what you need.

[dasva]

Well actually got a few people to respond to team up shouts today. Even eventually managed a full pt lol. But took awhile and for a decent part of the building it was basicaly a bunch of groups of people soloing with there trust npcs hoping to get 1 kill every 5 minutes.

Really though when your doing the same thing as everyone else and refusing to team up (trust or not) it's kinda a jerk move. Trust is just making it easier on harder stuff. If you really hate playing with people that much why not as suggested go somewhere more out of the way so you wont even have to deal with them at all?

[Camiie]

Really couldn't care less what gimps need tbh

The last thing we need is more "in the way people".

Play without training wheels and you might actually accomplish something.

If abyssea was allowed to be used on the new challenges it wouldn't be nearly as big of an annoyance, but when you see 30 trust npcs killing mandragoras it makes my blood boil.
Literally disgusting.

Wait... So using Trust NPCs is "literally disgusting" but loading up with atma and curor buffs while taking on vastly underleveled mobs is not "playing with training wheels?"

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs46/i/2009/191/d/6/Spock_Finds_You_Illogical_by_densethemoose.jpg

[Karah]

Only made mention of abyssea because the enemy fields repop and die very fast, making accomplishing the kill 20 objective take 1 minute instead of 2 hours fighting with 30 other trusts. Therefor not needing them.

[Aarahs]

Basically, don't use trust if you're worried about Karah's feelings. If you want to play the game, carry on.

[Calatilla]

Well I guess im unskilled for levelling my geomancer on crawler's nest GoV pages using trust instead of gimping it up as an abyssea key whore.

[Karah]

See you're not understanding.

Using the trusts TO LEVEL is TOTALLY FINE.

Using 3 NPC's to complete the ROE kill 20 enemies when there are 200 other people all doing that instead of team up, IS NOT. THAT is what is EXTREMELY ANNOYING.

Simply, trust should not be allowed to be used in Adoulin areas, problem solved.

NPC fellows had (have) a TON of restrictions, that have been improved every 6 months or so. Trust should've had the same restrictions.

[Kote]

They helped speed up VWNM pops for magian trials, especially for shoggoth and for removing petrifacation. I havent tried it yet but is it even possible to skill up enhancing or healing magics on them? Kind of sucks though, you'll only get songs and whm buffs when engaged with an enemy. Or how the two (assumed) best blm in vanadel become completely useless in long/multi fights after running out of mp. Drawback: can't release them and re summon them when in combat. You can always re summon and Adv fellow though with a charged tactics pearl.

Otherwise I just see alot of people just standing around showing off their new showponies in obscure areas.

[Demonjustin]

Using 3 NPC's to complete the ROE kill 20 enemies when there are 200 other people all doing that instead of team up, IS NOT.Reasonable complaint.


Simply, trust should not be allowed to be used in Adoulin areas, problem solved.Unreasonable solution.

[Trumpy]

I agree with your using 3 npcs to kill 20 enemies where there are 200 other people thing (assuming they are willing to team up, not always the case)

Disagree with blanket statement of gimpness or bad playered-ness.

People bitched about not being able to get some stuff done without seeking or trying to form groups for hours. or not being able to log on for short times and achieve anything cause of lack of available or willing players. Trust is one of their solutions for this (they been mentioning adjustments to solo content for the last few months). The bad thing is the people unwilling to dismiss the trusts when there are others willing to help. Like many magian trials in the past when couple players dont want to team up for a nm trial but i team up with anyone willing to and we outclaim them and even offer an invite when we do and they refuse thats just fucking stupid!

For me if i am playing on my monster and there is say a limited time quest going for a mob in my area, i will sometimes go with my mule somewhere else and use trust to finish the goal for him instead of stopping what i am doin on my monster for 10 or so minutes to finish the goal together. I try to go to out of the norm places where there are tons of mobs available or no players tho cause i dislike competing for 3 mobs, as long as it isnt too ridiculous to get there.

[dasva]

Well I guess im unskilled for levelling my geomancer on crawler's nest GoV pages using trust instead of gimping it up as an abyssea key whore.

Psh screw that leech! That said nowadays I'd actually rather level outside just for more RoE goodness. Daddy needs more RF+1!

[Karah]

Reasonable complaint.

Unreasonable solution.

Feel free to think of a better solution, eliminating them from all Adoulin content is the only one I can think of.

[Bamph]

Feel free to think of a better solution, eliminating them from all Adoulin content is the only one I can think of.

Move all the people that don't want to use trust, or abby, or any "easy mode" to another server where everything like that is disabled, go back to the way dynamis used to be, take out the easy mode stuff, no events, because that's not really "leet" stuff, etc... Leave all the people who don't really care about other people using trust alone on their servers.

[Calatilla]

Feel free to think of a better solution, eliminating them from all Adoulin content is the only one I can think of.

Stopping people from using them in Adoulin zones won't make them team up though, SE will let trust be summoned while in a party at some point (at least they said they were looking into it) so people can have the best of both worlds I guess, but people who are anti-social will always be anti-social.

I agree that people who would rather fight 30 people for 15 mobs instead of teaming up for quicker kills is annoying, it's the only thing that annoys me about the way some people use trust but Adoulin isn't the only place RoE works and if someone wants to solo 20 mobs instead of teaming up for 5mins then that's their loss.

[Karah]

I agree that people who would rather fight 30 people for 15 mobs instead of teaming up for quicker kills is annoying, it's the only thing that annoys me about the way some people use trust but Adoulin isn't the only place RoE works and if someone wants to solo 20 mobs instead of teaming up for 5mins then that's their loss.

It's not just their loss though, it's aggravating to the OTHER people as well, it's simply just rude quite actually.


Move all the people that don't want to use trust, or abby, or any "easy mode" to another server where everything like that is disabled, go back to the way dynamis used to be, take out the easy mode stuff, no events, because that's not really "leet" stuff, etc... Leave all the people who don't really care about other people using trust alone on their servers.

I've asked about new/different servers forever now, never going to happen.

[Calatilla]

Well the other people can just team up and kill everything can't they, and the solo person will be living off scraps. If they don't want to team up with you and your buddies then just go about your business regardless. Surely you can kill a few mobs faster than 1 person?

I don't quite get why you're placing this on Trust though, some people just refuse to team up, even before Trust NPC`s, hell I had to fight for claim on a trial NM, we were both on the same f'in path but they refused to team up.

[Karah]

It's solely the fault of trust that MORE players think they don't need to team up.

Certainly I can kill 5x faster than some gimp using trust, but you must not understand the pop mechanics if you don't understand why it's annoying.

While they sssssslllllllooooooowwwwwllllllyyyyyy kill one enemy it ruins the entire cycle waiting for the ones already dead to repop.

Being cost 5 seconds of downtime is enough to justify hatred toward these people. Time is money, and you're wasting it.

[Demonjustin]

It's not just their loss though, it's aggravating to the OTHER people as well, it's simply just rude quite actually.Then its a problem with players, not with the content, your 'solution' would be punishing every player for the douchebaggery of the people you are talking about.

[dasva]

Then its a problem with players, not with the content, your 'solution' would be punishing every player for the douchebaggery of the people you are talking about.

Except it's content enabling it. But yes his solution is poor.

[Karah]

Like I said feel free to come up with something better;

RoE doesn't count while using trust?
Trust cannot be summoned @ 99?

Any possible fix is going to piss someone off, so just straight up elimination would be my vote.

[Twille]

get over it.

[Demonjustin]

Any possible fix is going to piss someone off, so just straight up elimination would be my vote.Any fix will piss someone off, so lets just flat out eliminate it so we piss the most people off.


Like I said feel free to come up with something betterWait till you can join parties with Trust, thats my solution. If people won't team up after that they they wouldn't have either way so taking it away or keeping it will do nothing regardless and your just pissing people off by restricting it, which does nothing to help anyone.

[Camiie]

Being cost 5 seconds of downtime is enough to justify hatred toward these people. Time is money, and you're wasting it.

Hon, if 5 seconds of downtime bothers you that much then you're playing the wrong damn game.

[Zarchery]

This is basically what I was really trying to get at.

It's just extremely annoying to see all these trusts... when they're REALLY not necessary... I mean come on, do you really need 3 people to help you kill 20 mandragoras in your ilvl 119 gear in ceizak... serously?

That's what I'm talking about, its a CRUTCH and a huge one, people think they need the Trusts FOR EVERYTHING. It's pathetic.

I don't need the Trust NPCs, but they make it easier. Why would I intentionally make something more difficult?

[Zarchery]

Only made mention of abyssea because the enemy fields repop and die very fast, making accomplishing the kill 20 objective take 1 minute instead of 2 hours fighting with 30 other trusts. Therefor not needing them.

It sounds like your entire complaint is not with Trust, but with competition for mobs for the Records of Eminence special objectives. You're going about this all wrong. I've never had one take nearly that long. It certainly doesn't help your case that you're also condescending people who use Trust at the same time.

Firstly, the limited time objectives aren't limited to the 2 hour window. You have to be logged on during that window in order to receive the quest. You have until the next quest window opens to complete it. So for the 6-8 AM objective, you need to be logged in between 6 and 8 AM, but you have until 3 PM (when the next one comes to overwrite it) to finish.

Secondly, camps will be more crowded early on but open up more as time goes by. I did "Vanquish Beasts" in Uleguerand Range in about 10 minutes at 12:15 AM last night.

Lastly, given that you kill mob families (i.e. plantoids) instead of specific mob types (i.e. mandragora), your options really open up. Also, there's no rule that says you have to do it on a level 99 job. For plantoids, hop on a level 1 job and kill mandragora in the Sarutabaruta region. If you don't have a low level job, use Monstrosity; those kills count too. I've done several RoE objectives in starter zones on low level monstrosities.

It sounds like your problem is that you have a very limited set of options in mind and don't like that a bunch of other people also have those limited options in mind and are overcrowding you. For the "Vanquish" objectives, go look up the FFXI bestiary (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category%3ABestiary), pick a mob family, and go somewhere that isn't so crowded.

[Zarchery]

Speaking of RoE... there are several objectives like "Clear 5 Colonization Reives" and "Clear 5 Lair Reives" in such and such area. These are pretty easy to solo with my Trust NPCs, but virtually impossible without. I'd like to clear these objectives, but nobody wants to go around clearing reives all over Adoulin for nothing. I usually summon Mihli, Trion, and Kupipi because they're all healers, while I dish out the damage.

But see now, you want to eliminate this possibility because you can't do RoE special objectives in exactly the way you want. No thanks. I'd rather have a shot at accomplishing my objectives.

[Karah]

You really try too hard, and must be oblivious to hyperbole, but that happens with text.

I run past these idiots with trusts and go somewhere else, but everytime I see them, it's hard not to literally vomit.


Hon, if 5 seconds of downtime bothers you that much then you're playing the wrong damn game.

I'm ok with natural downtime, of course that's going to happen, but gimpcaused downtime is unacceptable.

[Demonjustin]

Then go do a different area, I assure you every camp is not populated and if your just doing the common ones where everyone else goes you're the only one to blame.

[Dragoy]

Hmmm...


Really couldn't care less what gimps need tbh

The last thing we need is more "in the way people".
You sure have some cute attitude there towards your fellow players. I somewhat wonder how many of those frequenting these particular forums appreciate it. I'm sure you don't mind either way, however. ^^


Play without training wheels and you might actually accomplish something.

Heh. That's funny, and really makes me think of players using third-party 'helpers'. I think I'll resist going further on that thought for it would be off-topic, and wouldn't accomplish a thing.

Yet it seems I could not resist mentioning it.

Battletoads!


If abyssea was allowed to be used on the new challenges it wouldn't be nearly as big of an annoyance, but when you see 30 trust npcs killing mandragoras it makes my blood boil.

I believe they already stated that Abyssea will be a thing in the future, but I may remember wrong.


Literally disgusting.

Literally what one might say about your attitude, too. ^^;


I run past these idiots with trusts and go somewhere else, but everytime I see them, it's hard not to literally vomit.

Seems perilous indeed. Have you thought about consulting a doctor?

I'm seriously worried about your health especially for when you can find one to three players making a full alliance with these things. :S

Jests aside, I understand that in its current form, and under certain circumstances, one can feel negatively about this Face Faith Trust magic, but to this extent? It does seem a bit much. If players are not teaming up I believe there's a high chance of them not teaming up either way, NPCs or no NPCs.

I haven't had any issues with it, really, but like I said, I can imagine the situation quite easily even though I only did these Records of Eminence objectives a few times, and I haven't used the NPCs myself aside from a few quick tests (I find them a bit creepy, personally).
All in all, I do think it's a nice idea, although obviously not a finished one. I also understand that many a player simply prefers to 'be alone' if they can, and this probably helps those players a bunch. In any such situation, I'm likely to simply relocate myself.

I most certainly can't be bothered to be angry about it, since essentially, the only thing any of us here is doing is wasting time, and if I'm not enjoying a particular waste of time, only then will that time truly become wasted (and I'll perhaps stop wasting it).

That said, I sometimes do wonder how people do it, or why. Why do people use their energy into being angry about things in general. It certainly doesn't seem the most constructive nor the most productive way to suggest adjustments and/or improvements.


Well, that's just a theory. A Dragoy theory.

(No ill meanings went into constructing this post.)

[Karah]

I just wanted to bump this, as I noticed Starcade posted about me #livingthedream.
http://darkrenegadesmusings.blogspot.com/


Hmmm...
You sure have some cute attitude there towards your fellow players. I somewhat wonder how many of those frequenting these particular forums appreciate it.

Apparently none of them =/ no one ever takes the time to complain to me in game ==//



Literally what one might say about your attitude, too. ^^;
I'm a prick, no one is shocked.


one can feel negatively about this Face Faith Trust magic
One can, and should feel negatively about this system



Well, that's just a theory. A Dragoy theory.

Shout out to The Game Theorists;
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo_IB5145EVNcf8hw1Kku7w

[Dragoy]

Good reply. ^^


As for realistic adjustments, instead of restricting this feature, I wonder if they could create more incentives towards party-play. Perhaps more Records of Eminence objectives that require a party, similar to the level-sync one, and perhaps the reward would scale up as the party gets bigger?

I don't know. I can't tell if people would team up even then.

[Dethard]

I do find it amusing that the so called "elite" players expect the so called "gimp/noob" players to party up now because they get in the way of the elite players doing a event/quest. They seem to forget that many of these players got used to playing solo as they could not get into parties because they were "gimp".

I am sure everyone remembers and still sees the shouts for parties, stating "Delve/relic/Mythic/Emperyan" weapons only.

I agree that people should group up for these RoE quests, but you cannot blame people for playing solo when they have been forced to solo most of the time and are excluded from certain events because the "elite" players class them as "gimp".

[Selindrile]

Karah's view of "Trust is stupid and is training wheels for baddies." is a really ridiculous view, one could say the same of pretty much anything in the game:

"People who use cure spells are baddies who aren't good enough to not take damage, they're training wheels and should be removed from the game, people who aren't good enough to make proper use of Utsusemi and Stuns should just quit, it makes me projectile vomit whenever I see someone casting cure."

Is a statement with equal logic.

That said, there is a problem with trust, as much as I like it, this is a situation that comes up often:

Six people need 20 merits to go fight an AA battle, their options are as follows:

1.) Create a fast paced xp party and go fight things, Bard+Whm+Mnk x4.
2.) Everyone go Monk, pull out Trust NPCs, and fight solo in seperate areas.

The problem is that option two is CONSIDERABLY faster than option 1, to such an extent that grouping really punishes players and delays the time they take in accomplishing goals, therefore, people don't team up.

[Blah]

*looks around* WHAT PEOPLE? Where are all these hordes of people that you are seeing? I see maybe one or two people in La Theine, 5 or 6 MAYBE in Valkurm Dunes geeez even with the npcs that's not enough to hop up hollering. And let's try to get it a little straight: even before the trust npcs no1 wanted to team up, or at least not on mah server they didn't.

[Blah]

*looks around* WHAT PEOPLE? Where are all these hordes of people that you are seeing? I see maybe one or two people in La Theine, 5 or 6 MAYBE in Valkurm Dunes geeez even with the npcs that's not enough to hop up hollering. You just seem to want empathy for something that you shouldn't even be bothered by especially since there isn't even that many people left in the game. And let's try to get it a little straight: even before the trust npcs no1 wanted to team up, or at least not on mah server they didn't.

[Blah]

Ooops sorry I posted twice...feel free to pick on me for it >_>

[Camiie]

Karah's view of "Trust is stupid and is training wheels for baddies." is a really ridiculous view, one could say the same of pretty much anything in the game

The irony is that the high-end/elite community, which Karah likely considers himself a part of, consists almost entirely of people who never would have gotten where they are without "training wheels." So called gimps are actually the least likely to take shortcuts to victory and trample upon the camps of others without regard.

[Aezelas]

While they sssssslllllllooooooowwwwwllllllyyyyyy kill one enemy it ruins the entire cycle waiting for the ones already dead to repop.

Being cost 5 seconds of downtime is enough to justify hatred toward these people. Time is money, and you're wasting it.

You have issues, and other players' way of playing a game is not the main one.

[Olor]

No but the system has exacerbated the problem

Not really. People ignored my offers to team up well before trust. Some people just don't want to be friendly - trust MAGIC has nothing to do with it. (The other kind of trust might be the culprit)