Records of Eminence - SMN seems to be left out

[Aoisa]

I love the idea of ROE, but my avatars do not seem to count toward my goals, either with Blood Pacts or regular attacks. While I still get credit for kills, this makes it nearly impossible to do things like Total Damage, where NONE of my damage from avatars is included. A SMN's ability lies in its summons, and to expect a SMN to be able to fulfill objectives otherwise is, in my opinion, discriminatory.

Please change this so that avatars (and other pets in general, if this is the same for BST, DRG, etc) can apply themselves to ROE objectives.

[Karbuncle]

I love the idea of ROE, but my avatars do not seem to count toward my goals, either with Blood Pacts or regular attacks. While I still get credit for kills, this makes it nearly impossible to do things like Total Damage, where NONE of my damage from avatars is included. A SMN's ability lies in its summons, and to expect a SMN to be able to fulfill objectives otherwise is, in my opinion, discriminatory.

Please change this so that avatars (and other pets in general, if this is the same for BST, DRG, etc) can apply themselves to ROE objectives.

Not that I don't agree summoners damage should be counted, but with my melee set I can regularly perform 3k+ Shattersouls, even in SoA areas... as /RDM. I'm still a little squishy, but having Trust NPCs like Kupipi really help that :D. Hell I think in abyssea I regularly crit for 600+, really gets you through the 500+ damage trial... 1k+ is kinda annoying, but It can also easily be done with a good TP/WS set, even outside Abyssea... Inside Abyssea just makes it all the easier.

Finally my years of hording SMN melee/WS armor is paying off!

Anywho, in case the first sentence has since been lost in a chasm of blank stares once the word "Summoner melee" hit, I don't disagree with you, simply offering an alternative to completing the trials in the mean time while they adjust this.

[Elphy]

SMN should nvr just sit back and let their avatars do all the damage. That is the definition of a fail smn. The only time the avatar should do all the work is when their is a definite chance the smn will be killed, like with ironclads in aby. So you can still get plenty of dmg output, shattersoul is great for this.

[Aoisa]

Meleeing SMN is great for those who have all the time in the world to max out their Staff skill and their merits, but for those of us who have limited time to play, that's just not realistic. My staff skill is far below my level and it's difficult for me to hit mobs even below my level, and it will likely take me at least several more weeks before I even have a chance at the ROE Staff or Sachet - and that's if I do nothing else other than ROE.

The whole point of ROE is to be able to do content on a whim - to log in and start doing things and achieving goals, for those who only have maybe 30-60 minutes to play. When it's made that I have to do tons of preparation just to not be a "fail smn", then you've completely lost the purpose of this content.

[Elphy]

Oh yeah I forgot, the whole point of RoE is to relieve players from doing anything time consuming or pesky like skilling up...

Food, gear and moghancements for skilling make it easy. Plus the fact that unless you burned your smn up or used a 3rd pt program to skill up your smn magic if you bothered at all, staff skill can be kept up as you lvl 1-99 easily, even in book burns and aby pts. Ive done it, and I dedicate most my time to other games so am only on xi a few hrs a week.

I find it funny how ppl think that just because they only have an hr to play se should completely change the game for them or add items solely for them. Why not just take out skill to begin with. If you really like a job and want to play it, you NEED to dedicate some time to it. That's just how ffxi works.

[Karbuncle]

Meleeing SMN is great for those who have all the time in the world to max out their Staff skill and their merits, but for those of us who have limited time to play, that's just not realistic. My staff skill is far below my level and it's difficult for me to hit mobs even below my level, and it will likely take me at least several more weeks before I even have a chance at the ROE Staff or Sachet - and that's if I do nothing else other than ROE.

The whole point of ROE is to be able to do content on a whim - to log in and start doing things and achieving goals, for those who only have maybe 30-60 minutes to play. When it's made that I have to do tons of preparation just to not be a "fail smn", then you've completely lost the purpose of this content.

Again while i agree with your OP, and that summons themselves should count as part of the RoE trials... You uh, you're not helping your case. While i personally agree that everyone has their own styles and times they can play and what not, making it seem like pulling out your staff and using it during those 30-60 minute windows is somehow a godforsaken crime is not a prudent choice of words.

I suggest, simply in the mean time while I hope they fix this ovesight, when you go out to do things for RoE, you bring along some cheap sushi and melee with your pet, every little bit helps. You're pretty SoL right now though with uncapped skill and little in the way of gear, but In the down time while they patch this bug, you can at least use the time wisely and touch up your skills :)


If you really like <something>, you NEED to dedicate some time to it. That's just how <life> works.

Edited and agreed really. As an old fictional doctor once said, Nothing in life worth having comes easy. =)

Play how you want OP, remember everything I mention is only a suggestion!

[Camiie]

I'd like to say I can't believe that the OP is taking heat for his request, but this is the allegedly friendly FFXI community where "my way or the highway" is the Golden Rule. Of course Avatars damage should count. Of course a caster job shouldn't have to rely on swinging their stat stick to get things done. You might as well force a MNK to complete tasks by throwing pebbles instead of punching things.

[Sasaraixx]

Plus the fact that unless you burned your smn up or used a 3rd pt program to skill up your smn magic if you bothered at all, staff skill can be kept up as you lvl 1-99 easily, even in book burns and aby pts.

That is not true. Unless you are in a really bad party, you will not be keeping your staff skill capped. You will have to go out and skill up on your own.

I absolutely hate meleeing on SMN and find it incredibly boring. If I want to melee, I'll switch to another job. I'm also not going to spend what little play time I have gearing up an aspect of the job that really is not necessary and I don't enjoy. Does it add to your ability to play the job? Of course. You are not a "fail SMN" though if you aren't running around with multiple melee sets. That being said, if I am fighting something weak I will whack it with my staff because it does speed up kills.

I do agree with the OP though that avatar damage should count. I've been playing as SCH mostly so I haven't had to deal with it on SMN.

[Aoisa]

I'd like to say I can't believe that the OP is taking heat for his request, but this is the allegedly friendly FFXI community where "my way or the highway" is the Golden Rule. Of course Avatars damage should count. Of course a caster job shouldn't have to rely on swinging their stat stick to get things done. You might as well force a MNK to complete tasks by throwing pebbles instead of punching things.

Thank you. This is precisely the point I was trying to make in the original post.

And don't worry; I'm taking any heat. It doesn't change the point of the topic.


That is not true. Unless you are in a really bad party, you will not be keeping your staff skill capped. You will have to go out and skill up on your own.

I absolutely hate meleeing on SMN and find it incredibly boring. If I want to melee, I'll switch to another job. I'm also not going to spend what little play time I have gearing up an aspect of the job that really is not necessary and I don't enjoy. Does it add to your ability to play the job? Of course. You are not a "fail SMN" though if you aren't running around with multiple melee sets. That being said, if I am fighting something weak I will whack it with my staff because it does speed up kills.

I do agree with the OP though that avatar damage should count. I've been playing as SCH mostly so I haven't had to deal with it on SMN.

Thank you as well. This is exactly why I didn't bother fueling the fire. There's no point in using up all of your free time doing work when you want to relax and just play.

Of course there's a point that you need to dedicate to your character doing that work, but you don't need to get maximum everything before you play it. Those of us that leveled our mage jobs before book burns and abyssea existed understand why it's such a chore.

[dasva]

I think part of is there needs to be someway to balance it since smn is great at the relatively safe AoE dmg. I mean you can hit over 500 AoE from thunderspark. Similarly to how there healing hits everything in WKRs which would be rather unfair if they make a repeatible healing

[Karbuncle]

If you think you're taking heat from me I imagine none of you are reading this thread very well.

I may agree with Elphy regarding SMN melee but we are addressing it in different manors.

[Camiie]

You two are just butting in with your own little pet project even if you mean well by doing so. It's great that you're an awesome front-line DD SMN, but your post was more about promoting your niche play style than it was about this rather glaring oversight (or horrible decision) by the devs. Whether you meant it that way or not, you essentially told the guy that he's doin' it wrong when in actuality his style is perfectly valid. Elphy took the opportunity to kick the guy in his teeth and other sensitive bits after you knocked him down. I'm used to such behavior from the FFXI community, but it still gets on my nerves.


I think part of is there needs to be someway to balance it since smn is great at the relatively safe AoE dmg. I mean you can hit over 500 AoE from thunderspark. Similarly to how there healing hits everything in WKRs which would be rather unfair if they make a repeatible healing

I disagree. It'd actually be perfectly fair for SMN to have a huge advantage in this content since other jobs have huge advantages over SMN in other content. That's the way SE tends to "balance" things.

[Karbuncle]

You two are just butting in with your own little pet project even if you mean well by doing so. It's great that you're an awesome front-line DD SMN, but your post was more about promoting your niche play style than it was about this rather glaring oversight (or horrible decision) by the devs. Whether you meant it that way or not, you essentially told the guy that he's doin' it wrong when in actuality his style is perfectly valid. Elphy took the opportunity to kick the guy in his teeth and other sensitive bits after you knocked him down. I'm used to such behavior from the FFXI community, but it still gets on my nerves.

I have to disagree. I said in almost all of my posts on this topic, that not only did I recommend the OP play his own style and that my responses were only suggestions and should be taken as such, but i also said I unequivocally agree that Summons should be counted and that the meleeing aspect should only be considered a temporary fix until SE comes around to addressing the issue or oversight since it will probably take some time.

Just because this aspect of RoE is clearly broken does not mean one should feel helpless to complete the RoE trial until its fixed, by offering a temporary solution to the problem, we're giving the OP, and any out-of-the-loop Summoners, a real chance to collect the Sparks from these trials, which is far better than posting absolutely nothing or any importance outside of "I agree" and fanning the flames of rage on the subject rather than looking for any logical short term solution to the issue.

So I hope this post has alleviated that miscommunication, also if we really want it to be fixed soon, I would like to also suggest posting it in the bug report section if its not already been made there.

Edit: In regards to AoE damage, BLUs have been using the Whiskers AoE move in Abyssea to easily finish their 500/1k Damage trials, so it shouldn't be an issue with summoner either when they address it.

[Demonjustin]

I was going to bring up how just about every job in the game has at least 1 way to complete that trial easily because just about every job has an AoE strong enough to do it, but I felt it went without saying.

[Karbuncle]

I agree.

I think even moves like Spinning Attack can hit 500+ now yah? Cyclone and Aeolian Edge can pull it off. heck you could probably go to abyssea and pull it off with Earth Crusher too (or Cataclysm if you're high enough skill wise)!

Theres a lot of short term solutions to the problem until its addressed. So don't miss out on your sparks OP if you can, I know it sucks to not be able to complete it with the key aspect to SMN's job (summons), but you can still collect sparks in the mean time, its just a slightly bigger pain in the butt :x

[Demonjustin]

Off the top of my head, only BST, RNG, SAM, NIN, and COR, are left out.

[Byrth]

BST, RNG, and NIN get Aeolian Edge. SAM and COR get Circle Blade, afaik.

[Demonjustin]

Yeah I was just going off the top of my head with built in WSs/Spells/JAs.

[Aoisa]

If you think you're taking heat from me I imagine none of you are reading this thread very well.

While i personally agree that everyone has their own styles and times they can play and what not, making it seem like pulling out your staff and using it during those 30-60 minute windows is somehow a godforsaken crime is not a prudent choice of words.
Saying something derogatory in a nice way doesn't make it an acceptable comment.


I think part of is there needs to be someway to balance it since smn is great at the relatively safe AoE dmg. I mean you can hit over 500 AoE from thunderspark. Similarly to how there healing hits everything in WKRs which would be rather unfair if they make a repeatible healing
I don't see how it's any different than AoE Weapon Skills. In fact, many AoE weapon skills are much more powerful than avatar AoEs, and avatars are very limited in the amount of damage they can sustain. Usually, I have difficulty with large groups of mobs unless they are much lower level.

That being said, I don't really need to AoE everything; I just want my avatars to count for something.

[dasva]

My point wasn't that they could AoE. Everyone can AoE. My point was they could do so more safely in unsafe territories. ie instead of making it a mission to go out and do the 500 dmg trials they can just do in while accomplishing content like reives. Because no one is going to go out and do the 500 over and over again just to do it. And 1k isn't repeatable and can be done once again by anyjob in abyssea. Also note that for these trials more powerful AoEs are actually a detriment if you already hitting over 500 or 1k depending on which one you doing.

[Camate]

Hello everyone,

In a future version update we will be making it so that all types of attacks count towards objectives, which of course includes avatars.

[Demonjustin]

Thats great to hear! :D



Also, welcome back to you and everyone else on the community team! I hope you all had a great time over the holidays! ^_^

[Mnejing]

We miss Okipuit already.. :(

[Demonjustin]

Wait, what happened to Okipuit?!

[MDenham]

Wait, what happened to Okipuit?!We're not supposed to talk about that. From the footage I've seen, though, it seemed to have involved a tragic accident involving a truckload of Ulbuconuts and [DATA EXPUNGED]

[Aoisa]

Hello everyone,

In a future version update we will be making it so that all types of attacks count towards objectives, which of course includes avatars.

Thanks very much for the speedy response, Camate! Hope your holiday break was enjoyable. =)

[Goldfish]

A bit late to the party but on the page 1-2 discussion about SMN meleeing, I'm surprised not much mention of SMN nuking.

[Edit - This is a big post. I bolded any major points.
Here is the tl;dr version: I can do 600+ damage as SMN/SCH (with Dark Arts up) against fodder mobs in Kamihr Drifts WKR. And as SMN/GEO in Abyssea Misareaux Conflux 7, I managed to do 900+ damage Blizzara on a decent amount of mobs too (2.7k+ Blizzara on a single mob).

So SMN can still do the RoE 500+ damage quest decently (in terms of Abyssea Misareaux AoE farming, I got interrupted a lot, so it made pulling a lot of mobs much harder but it still doable at a decent speed in terms of getting those RoE 500+ damage credits).

For nearly all pre-adoulin content, you can get away with /RDM (single target) or /GEO (for AoE in Abyssea for example) as long as you have the item level nuking staves as they will boost magic accuracy high enough that you'll likely be capped on most pre-adoulin stuff (Eminent Staff is probably the easiest one to get if you don't have any yet). Also I recommend /GEO over /BLM since the -ra spells cast much faster than the -ga spells (the -ra T1 spells are between -ga T1 and T2 in terms of damage but they still do at least 500+ damage even on a train of mobs, which is enough for the RoE 500+ damage quest).]

Here's my budget nuking set for SMN (it's not the best but it still works decently enough):
1. Baqil Staff + Tzacab Grip (I use it mainly for the HP and because I don't have a good nuking grip yet; if you have a good nuking grip, you can use that instead)
2. *Convoker's Horn + Convoker's Pigaches (mainly for refresh and the -4 avatar perp cost)
3. Otomi Gloves (if you had Hagondes Cuffs with good magic attack bonus augments, replace Otomi with those instead).
4. Hagondes Coat and Hagondes Pants (I have one with +22 magic attack bonus).
5. Moldavite Earring + Hecate's earring. Obviously replace these with Friomisi + Novio earring if you have them.
6. Rings I just had a +4 INT ring and just used evoker's in the other slot. I just kept using Caller's Pendant (if you have something better, you can use that instead). (Regain on avatar does mean that Healing Ruby IIs, Spring Waters, or Whispering Winds will heal a bit more.)
You can probably switch to Twilight Necklace (if there aren't that many other people there or if you are farming).
7. For back, I usually keep Repulse mantle on with Moepapa Stone. Obviously if you have a better belt for nuking, use it. (I usually just use Moepapa when meleeing with my Avatar on pre-adoulin content. On newer content, since avatar's auto attacks aren't that great especially compared to nukes, you could probably just Cetl Belt over Moepapa for the +4% double attack while meleeing or just use a belt for nuking.)

*Also about Convoker's Horn and Pigaches, you can probably replace them with Hagondes Hat and Hagondes Sabots in WKR, especially if you're meleeing a bit too for Spirit Taker.

(Take note Hagondes Sabots doesn't have any magic accuracy or attack on it unless augmented, so if you don't have those, you can feel free to use Convoker's Pigaches instead.)

As you can see, a very budget build (the only good augments I have is the pants with +22 magic attack bonus).

With this set, in Kamihr Drifts WKR, (as SMN/SCH with Dark Arts) my stone 1s manage to do 600+ damage to fodder mobs with almost no resists (seems capped magic accuracy on fodder mobs at least). Enough to get the 500+ damage RoE credit.

Though, I haven't had good results nuking the Naakual itself but the fodder mobs I have no problem with getting 600+ damage Stone 1s.

Not only that, I have Carbuncle out all the time (If you run out of MP or want the regen, keep avatar's favor up) and use Healing Ruby II for extra heals.

Later, I changed to Leviathan to spice things up (Leviathan can still heal decently and Spinning Dive does decent damage). You can macro in your SMN set when using Blood Pacts (I make one macro for a nuking set and another for the SMN set).

I capped bayld fairly easily and never really ran out of MP (thanks to reive momentum bonuses and spirit taker usage if needed) even with avatars up full time (I used Carbuncle for most of it, Healing Ruby II does heal the most at 0% TP but I switched to Leviathan to spice things up later and still had no issues with MP).

If you don't have staff skill up for spirit taker, you can probably still keep MP up (just keep avatar's favor up). Worse case, only summon between blood pacts and resummon but I don't think there are that many MP problems.

Carbuncle with avatar's favor (-4) Convoker's Pigaches (-4) (at this point you are already capped on perpetuation cost reduction on Carbuncle) and Auto Refresh +4 from Hagondes Coat and Convoker's Horn and the auto refresh trait SMN has (+2) means even with carbuncle out, you still regain 5 MP per tick.

I don't have any screens but you can just try it out yourself.

(Besides Hagondes set, most of those gears can easily be obtained. Hagondes set, if you don't have them yet, you can try shouting for a PT and the pieces for yorcia are really cheap nowadays.
Verdigris Stones are still wanted and if you shout you're doing a T3 (and at least on Fenrir, torso, and legs all cost only 10k each right now), you should be able to get some people (though I haven't tried myself). At least during JP hours, I have seen a decent amount of yorcia shouts regularly still.

Also even before Baqil Staff, SMN could also either use Lehbrailg +1 or Soothsayer Staff.
And if you don't have any of those, Summoner can also use Eminent Staff (the nuking staff) which is also a great (and I didn't actually check the stats before writing this but they're actually superior to Baqil Staff aside from the melee damage).

On any old content (Walk of Echoes bosses for example), you don't even need to go /SCH. /RDM can do as well. On the bosses and stuff, I did decent damage with nukes in between my avatar's blood pacts (I forgot the exact numbers since I haven't done them in a while though).

As for Abyssea - I haven't tried it yet but I wouldn't be surprised if I could just go as SMN/BLM or SMN/GEO (Ra spells cast much faster than ga spells and are a bit stronger too, and if the mobs are east from your position, you get magic attack bonus +13 as Geomancer thanks to Cardinal Chant) and use Atma of the Beyond, Atma of the Minikin Monstrosity and Atma of the Mounted Champion and just leave Carbuncle up (for regen) and go with a full nuking set and -ga or -ra everything.

(Also if you want to leave Carbuncle up for the regen, take off the Item Level Avatar Sachet and start the pull by nuking the mob. That way, even if Carby auto attacks, it will be unlikely he will take hate away from you.)

Edit #1 - I ended up trying out SMN in Abyssea AoE farming. Abyssea Misareaux Conflux 7. I let Light Spirit cast Protect V on me. I used Atma of Beyond, Minikin Monstrosity and Atma of the Mounted Champion.
Went as SMN/GEO (Geo has Blizzara and the Ra spells cast much faster than the ga spells and they're between ga I and II in terms of damage).

(Also for RoE, the Ra spells are the best since you just want to spam as much as possible as long as the AoE does 500 or more damage requirement is met. That's why I use /GEO over /BLM.)

I pulled all the mobs but I ended up having to use two potions as I kept getting interrupted (though I managed to wipe out all the mobs as some casts still managed to get through).

So without innate elemental skill, pulling all the mobs is probably a bad idea (you will get interrupted a lot) but pulling 10-15 mobs at a time is doable.
I didn't have anything except Carbuncle's Favor and Protect V from Light Spirit.

You can probably use Noctoshield for Phalanx but it's probably not needed unless you're trying to pull the whole zone (which at least from the one try I did, I ended up getting interrupted a lot). For 10-15 mobs, between both atma of the mounted champion and Carbuncle's Favor, you will likely always be at full health most of the time, so Noctoshield isn't needed unless you want to try for more mobs.

My Blizzara with the atmas and the gear same set above (I used Twilight Torque and a Dark Ring with -5% physical damage taken in place of Caller's Pendant and the +4 INT ring), my Blizzara against the whole zone dealt 900+ damage each. (Against a single mob 2276 damage.)

(Also this was without Ascentic's tonic. Though in case of RoE farming, you may not want to use Ascentic's tonic as long as you do at least 500+ damage. In that case, you can just keep a decent amount of mobs on you then keep nuking them all with Blizzara to get RoE credit each time.)

Now I haven't tested it on the leveled up mobs yet but I wouldn't be surprised if 10 mobs or less are still doable. While the lack of the skill does mean that you can't pull the whole zone (you get interrupted a lot), you can still probably pull 10-15 mobs without much issue as SMN/GEO spamming Blizzara.

So if you don't have any nuking jobs, SMN can still be a solid nuker since they have access to almost the same set of gears nuking jobs can use (Hagondes set + the nuking staves).

/GEO for AoE farming in Abyssea, /RDM for single target nuking (on old content), and /SCH for Adoulin related stuff.

Edit #2 - I ended up leveling them up for a bit. It does get noticeably more difficult once they're leveled up as it seems they interrupted me a lot more and were more accurate (more they ended up interrupting me a lot). I wonder if switching to Eminent Staff may make enough of a noticeable difference. My GEO/RDM has no problem casting phalanx and ice spikes even when I pulled all the mobs and even when they were leveled up (As GEO/RDM, I only have 160 enhancing). The only difference is I use Atinian Staff (item level 117) compared to SMN with Baqil Staff (115) and I do have 8 merits in enhancing while I have none in elemental.

You can probably also change Atma of the Beyond to Atma of the Merciless Matriarch (for the fast cast bonus) as long as Blizzara still does 500+ damage even after the change.

Overall:
1. In WKR (Kamihr Drifts) - SMN/SCH with Dark Arts up can land 600+ Stone 1s on the fodder mobs (which will give you credit for the 500+ damage RoE). You can continue to use blood pacts on top of that (for evaluations).

I haven't really tried SMN nuking on the other Naakuals but assuming the fodder mobs are the same level, there shouldn't be any difference.

2. In almost all pre-adoulin content (Walk of Echoes and Abyssea), you don't even need to use /sch sub. /RDM (for single target spells) and /GEO (for AoE) can work (even with just 144 elemental skill, you will probably be capped on magic accuracy just from the item level staves alone).

Also if you can get it, Summoner can also use Venabulum, which is the new item level 119 nuking staff.

So if you don't have any traditional nuking jobs, SMN can still do decently.