No more "easy" leveling 91-99

[Magnum]

OK, I know i'm probably going to get flamed for this, but, for the last 2-3 years we as players have had it "easy".

"Easy" you say... Think about it, ToAU, spoon fed content, the "3" add-on expansions, just candy with nice stats for either WS or looking good in w/e area you hang out in. Abyssea, a nice easy ride from 75-90, ok Atmas were a pain in the ass, and Shinryu was a nice distraction.

But seriously, players, where have the challenges gone within this game?

I spent months/years doing CoP and Zillart missions, to be confronted by yet more challenges in Sky & Sea, with Abyssea, since its implementation, its been a joke.

What XI needs is a new challenge along the lines of the "old school" content, a challenge, not just an expansion to lolgrind thru, but a "proper" challenge, hard mobs, make us be glad to earn our levels, rather than grind away for 2-3 hrs on easy mode.

Feel free to flame me, but I really enjoy this game, and I miss the old content.

[chrism]

I agree with adding harder content but it shouldn't take months just to get from 90 to 99 when it comes out... sorry dude. Keep the xp as is and add harder content, down the ps2 limitations and lets get more content/ better graphics, voice chat.. all the stuff we all seem to be missing from the game and could use.

[Greatguardian]

People will probably still be able to EXP in any of the Abyssea areas 91-99 just fine. If people can party in La Theine and other Visions zones at 90, they can party in Heroes zones at 99. Mob exp chains also seem to cap out just fine regardless of the player's level.

So no, I highly doubt anything will change the EXP situation 91-99. Endgame? Sure, I'd love a challenge. Some of the same NMs we have at 90 could be decently tough without the benefit of Brews, Temp Items, Abyssites, Cruor buffs, and Atmas. I'm sure this has been part of the plan anyways. That has nothing to do with the thread title though, which is just not going to happen.

[Thizzerio]

OK, I know i'm probably going to get flamed for this, but, for the last 2-3 years we as players have had it "easy".

"Easy" you say... Think about it, ToAU, spoon fed content, the "3" add-on expansions, just candy with nice stats for either WS or looking good in w/e area you hang out in. Abyssea, a nice easy ride from 75-90, ok Atmas were a pain in the ass, and Shinryu was a nice distraction.

But seriously, players, where have the challenges gone within this game?

I spent months/years doing CoP and Zillart missions, to be confronted by yet more challenges in Sky & Sea, with Abyssea, since its implementation, its been a joke.

What XI needs is a new challenge along the lines of the "old school" content, a challenge, not just an expansion to lolgrind thru, but a "proper" challenge, hard mobs, make us be glad to earn our levels, rather than grind away for 2-3 hrs on easy mode.

Feel free to flame me, but I really enjoy this game, and I miss the old content.

i agree with you should be different zone and it should go hand in hand with leveling there, slow and rewarding. and highly difficult

[Eeek]

I can't say I agree with you, Krystal...*cough*, I mean Magnum. I can't stand leveling anymore, especially with the huge TNLs. I was in the process of closing down my characters (giving away gear, gil, etc.) when Abyssea alliance leveling was discovered.

I'll quit in a heartbeat if the dev team listens to the players with the masochistic hardon for 4k/hour exp parties on crabs, toramas, and raptors.

Also, there's nothing hard about getting atmas, and I for one love the freedom to set and achieve goals with a small groups of friends in Abyssea. I'll quit before I join another large, endgame LS only to sit in line for months or years to get an awesome piece of gear that never drops. Fuck. That.

[Alderin]

You will get 2 types of responses from this.

1) Old players have had a tough grind to where they are now - want to just have it easy and level a few jobs they thought they never would - solo some mobs they thought they never would.. etc etc. New players coming into this game so late aren't getting enough low lvl pt's in order to level a job the old grind way > therefore, foir a game that is a decade + past the release date with dwindling numbers, its better to have everyone all at a similar stage in their game life (high level) so they can just run around and have some fun.

2) Usually it will be old players that miss the old grind, old way of levelling, don't like leeching or "burns", have always liked the "grind" that SE is so great at making will agree with you. New players that aren't involved in an LS to let them burn their job up will agree with you as well - as there are very little EXP parties outside abyssea. Less leeching = more parties..

Pro's and cons for both arguments so I am not going to go much further in this thread as it has been over-covered in these forums. The dev's outlook with the release of Abyssea is changing due to how long the game has been running. The "easy and quick" way is exactly that - easy, quick, no grind. For a game that has been out so long, it is getting to that stage that without this "easy" method, people are going to start to drop off a bit faster then they have over the last couple of years.

I don't really have an opinion on this point.. Both sides have pro's and cons. So in short - I doubt you will see the "hard" setting getting bumped up for 90-99.

[Sparthos]

EXP should remain as-is, Abyssea EXP is always better than 6man EXP due to greater variety even if it means dealing with idiots AFK or hugging the Dominion NPC. I don't want to go back to some shitty scenario where my PUP or RNG cannot EXP because it ruins the ideal party.

What needs to change is the endgame content. Going back to actually needing 6-12 people to complete content would be ideal. It doesn't need to require a full 18man party but everything being 2-4manned is just Offline Fantasy XI: Boring. There are no more excuses about needing an HNM shell - PUGs have become staple in the game so even if you don't have a group, someone should be shouting to create groups if the content is worth it.

I like Abyssea as a whole more if I know that future content is going to be hard as fuck and require you needing those +2s/Emps to even stand a chance against what SE has waiting in the wings. Content for lowman is great but what makes an MMO is the group battles, not everything being mindlessly dropped by 3 people.

[Magnum]

This was never a "lvl up to 99 in Abyssea" thread, it was about adding new content and a challenge to XI. I for one would relish the time spent developing new strategies, etc to get through "hard" content, it would be much more an acomplishment than being "spoon-fed" Abyssea.

[Dauntless]

Abyssea, a nice easy ride from 30-90,


Fixed

Anywho, I agree with this but you're going to get attacked pretty hard for this.

[Greatguardian]

This was never a "lvl up to 99 in Abyssea" thread, it was about adding new content and a challenge to XI. I for one would relish the time spent developing new strategies, etc to get through "hard" content, it would be much more an acomplishment than being "spoon-fed" Abyssea.

Content is one thing. Leveling is another. You are not making that distinction in your OP, and your thread title is incredibly misleading.

EXP can and will not change from 91-99 because Abyssea EXP, as it is right now without any adjustments, will be just as viable at 99 as it is at 90. If anything it will be easier. If you want to talk about EXP, it's a moot point and you're just SOL because there is no way to force anyone to level outside Abyssea from 91-99. They will always have that option.

If you want to talk about Content, I highly suggest changing your thread title. You're just going to confuse people.

[Eeek]

This was never a "lvl up to 99 in Abyssea" thread, it was about adding new content and a challenge to XI. I for one would relish the time spent developing new strategies, etc to get through "hard" content, it would be much more an acomplishment than being "spoon-fed" Abyssea.

Sorry, you made it an exp thread by mentioning it twice in the OP.

I don't have the same patience with FFXI that I did when I was younger. I'm all for challenging content, but if the game reverts back into an excessively sadistic grind for exp and scraps of gear to feed whole alliances, fuck it, I'm out. FFXI is more fun now than it has been in years.

[Valefor4life]

You wanna make lvling 91-99 hard i propose you must collect 20 merits first then use KSCNM99 that requires 18 that not suck and make the fight insanely hard. If you lose the fight you lose your 20 merits and your KSCNM99 orb. Then the OP will cry because it's too hard and demand that SE should make it easier.

[Magnum]

Content is one thing. Leveling is another. You are not making that distinction in your OP, and your thread title is incredibly misleading.

EXP can and will not change from 91-99 because Abyssea EXP, as it is right now without any adjustments, will be just as viable at 99 as it is at 90. If anything it will be easier. If you want to talk about EXP, it's a moot point and you're just SOL because there is no way to force anyone to level outside Abyssea from 91-99. They will always have that option.

If you want to talk about Content, I highly suggest changing your thread title. You're just going to confuse people.

You miss my point completely! CHALLENGES within this game, COP/Zillart back in the day took on average 2 years to complete, now WOOSH 75-90 in 3-4 hrs, where is the fun/gratification/pride in that?

[Bigboy]

Personally, leveling is a rather outdated mechanic to me. I feel like more MMOs are rethinking the concept lately and that it isn't really a good time in FFXI's life to suddenly adjust the mechanic on everyone. It might be new/interesting to a player starting from 90, but to a new or returning player, there would just suddenly be a lump in the road of leveling, for no clear reason.

Getting back to what I meant by leveling being an outdated mechanic though... most companies will rush you through your levels because the majority of the content they want to spend their time on is endgame. That is the greatest return for investment. And Lore suffers pretty heavily under the concept of levels as well. I've met some sheep that could wipe the floor with Shadowlord. Never mind the heroes of the time being witnessed to be infinitely stronger than their opposition when "Wings of the Goddess" was added. Why did a group of 6 adventurers need to take care of this when Maat, or really any NPC could have slapped him down with next to no effort? When you have levels, these things become more obvious.

The oddness of leveling has become more obvious over the years as more parody of the system comes into play. What about stomping on rabbits for a week teaches me to fight a dragon? Do you really just want me stomping of rabbits for 2 weeks instead? Does that really change anything? It is just a scaling time barrier. I see no reason to really inflate the nonsense scale any further.

Now if you want to make me go through a long quest series along the lines of missions where I get rewarded with individual level cap increases, I suppose I would at least be interested. But it would still be annoying, and there would still be max level people within hours of server up.

[Greatguardian]

You miss my point completely! CHALLENGES within this game, COP/Zillart back in the day took on average 2 years to complete, now WOOSH 75-90 in 3-4 hrs, where is the fun/gratification/pride in that?

Dude. Doesn't matter. This thread is just *asking* to be flamed. Not because people are flamers. But because you intentionally made an OP and thread title that would antagonize people.

*EXP* will not change.

EXP is what is in your thread title.

EXP is what is in your OP.

If you want to talk about Content, edit the title/OP so people don't come in here foaming at the mouth.

Or you're trolling and I'm really, really dumb. Either one is fine, just tell me which :(

[Nacht]

You miss my point completely! CHALLENGES within this game, COP/Zillart back in the day took on average 2 years to complete, now WOOSH 75-90 in 3-4 hrs, where is the fun/gratification/pride in that?

You're comparing apples and oranges here. Missions and quests vs exp grinding.

[Ramsos]

You miss my point completely! CHALLENGES within this game, COP/Zillart back in the day took on average 2 years to complete, now WOOSH 75-90 in 3-4 hrs, where is the fun/gratification/pride in that?

Hate to break it to you, but taking 3-4 years to complete CoP/RoZ has nothing to do with people leveling fast.

[Aureus]

You miss my point completely! CHALLENGES within this game, COP/Zillart back in the day took on average 2 years to complete, now WOOSH 75-90 in 3-4 hrs, where is the fun/gratification/pride in that?
Hate to break it to you, but XP parties have never and will never be challenging. What they were was tedious. Now they're not. Removing tedium is always a good thing.

[Michae]

the big thing is they need to give us more challanges that force us to work as a team. They are going to have to come out with one heck of an expansion or ffxi will die. Its so easy to get lvls, skills, gear, etc that before long there will be NOTHING left to do. Literally. You can nearly solo everything and frankly without the challange none of the content really takes any time anymore. CoP and ToAU took years before to complete, not only due to lack of lvls, as long as u had one lvl 75 char you were usually good, but the challange is what took time. Fight Wipe Fight Wipe Fight Wipe, you needed strategy and cooperation between the pt members. Now you go in attack, heal, win, /cheer. If we arent challanged we are going to not be able to use all our fancy new gear since there will be nothing to use it on. Basically the whole game needs to be revamped to fit the new lvl cap or massive expansions have to be added. Something that will challange us like CoP and ToAU used to before the devs thought it was a good idea to gimp it to all burning hell

[Magnum]

Dude. Doesn't matter. This thread is just *asking* to be flamed. Not because people are flamers. But because you intentionally made an OP and thread title that would antagonize people.

*EXP* will not change.

I never asked it to be changed!

EXP is what is in your thread title.

Yes it is.

EXP is what is in your OP.

Yes it is.

If you want to talk about Content, edit the title/OP so people don't come in here foaming at the mouth.

Am I the one trolling and flaming?

Or you're trolling and I'm really, really dumb. Either one is fine, just tell me which :(

You just answered your own thread!

[wish12oz]

It seems everyone has forgotten what happen when SE first announced the lvl increase, and right after the lvl increase for the first few months before people figured out how to exp in abyssea. I remember it well, there was a whole lot of whining that people couldn't level XXX job cause it was useless, couldnt get invites, there wasn't enough areas for people to exp at, and people didn't have enough time to level their 5-8 75's up, etc. All these problems were alleviated by abyssea exp, they even let you bring your subjobs in there to exp so you didnt have to worry about them.

In the end SE just cant make people happy, everything is either to hard or to easy. I like abyssea exp, I like the way the game has gone, no more sitting in DA+BD+VOS for 9 hours of the day, no scanning for SW+DI for 5 hours each, now you can just go work for the gear you want. You don't have to worry about how difficult it is to level your jobs up after the increase, at most you can be done in the first month without even going out to exp specifically, just bring your different jobs to your LS events and theyll get there.

This game was never particularly challenging, it just required bots and patience to get anywhere.
EDIT: Want proof it wasn't hard? Look at all those old LS's who use to bot claim kings and were 'the best LS.' How many of them imploded with the new content and couldn't keep up/adapt to new content/etc. The main bot LS that use to rule everything on my server fell to pieces, I'm sure it was the same most other places too. (Kazoku, Quetzcotl server btw)

[Eeek]

Hate to break it to you, but taking 3-4 years to complete CoP/RoZ has nothing to do with people leveling fast.

Yeah, the only reason people took 3~4 years to finish CoP is because it took that long for SE to remove the level caps from the BCs so that ~50% or more of the playerbase could finally set foot in Sea!

[Greatguardian]

You just answered your own thread!

Poe's law Poe's law Poe's law Poe's law Poe's law Poe's law Poe's law Poe's law Poe's law Poe's law.

I'm going batty. I'm just going to assume you're trolling, because I still have some faith in humanity.

[Ramsos]

Yeah, the only reason people took 3~4 years to finish CoP is because it took that long for SE to remove the level caps from the BCs so that ~50% or more of the playerbase could finally set foot in Sea!

Sad to say that I know people who "still" dont have sea access lmao.

[HFX7686]

This is a terrible idea.

I like the pace of leveling these days.

Keep it how it is.

Add more challenge through new missions and quests.

[Aureus]

the big thing is they need to give us more challanges that force us to work as a team. They are going to have to come out with one heck of an expansion or ffxi will die. Its so easy to get lvls, skills, gear, etc that before long there will be NOTHING left to do. Literally. You can nearly solo everything and frankly without the challange none of the content really takes any time anymore. CoP and ToAU took years before to complete, not only due to lack of lvls, as long as u had one lvl 75 char you were usually good, but the challange is what took time. Fight Wipe Fight Wipe Fight Wipe, you needed strategy and cooperation between the pt members. Now you go in attack, heal, win, /cheer. If we arent challanged we are going to not be able to use all our fancy new gear since there will be nothing to use it on. Basically the whole game needs to be revamped to fit the new lvl cap or massive expansions have to be added. Something that will challange us like CoP and ToAU used to before the devs thought it was a good idea to gimp it to all burning hell
You seem to be forgetting that the final level cap is 99, not 90.

Abyssea is, at best, transitional content. Think of it as something to keep us occupied until the "new" endgame at 99 cap. It's not particularly challenging, nor should it be. It's a good baseline to get people equipped for 99 endgame. People may complete things quickly, but they're supposed to. The current expansions are solely to keep us occupied for a few months until bigger and better things come. With the ease of levelling/gearing characters now, I'm sure many people are gearing up new jobs they never thought they'd play, just because they can.

Adding a long-term event where rewards take substantial time to obtain would be outright stupid with the cap increasing every 3 months. Best to save those for 99 when things stabilize.

Also, CoP and ToAU were never particularly hard. To be honest, the most challenging part of anything in FFXI is assembling the group for it. Even when CoP was new, if you had a group of 6 people that knew what they were doing, you could breeze through it in a few days, most of that time spent getting various cutscenes. ToAU was always a joke. I don't understand why anyone could think it was challenging at all.

The old endgame content should be left to die. It has to be. No sane person wants to keep running sky, or sea, or dynamis, or einherjar. These events had their time, now we can look forward to what their replacements bring.

[Morgantisthedon]

Your thread content was a little misleading I agree. As far as a challenge I agree alot of stuff has hit the "eazy" button so called. I have came to accpet these changes since level sync intro gimp of CoP abby etc. Some things are still the same but definatly alot eazier especialy with brews etc....(low man kirin 5 ~6 bsts non zurg less 10 mins do u need it ?>? just a example)

Here is some of my ideas for harder content.


To combat this I would like SE to introduce a high end events and non abby high area.

Incorperate a new city with maybe new zones that are more based for players 76~99 That has top end quests

Introduce a second tiered Vnm scale in the new areas or incoprate a way to go past whats established giving u a key item letting you unlock a next tiered vnm system

A second tower to climb 76+ up recomended levels in a nysile static (get -1 gear comided with the +1 gear and maybe some item drops) for upgrades to the gear there or for quests / upgrades mythic

Assults past 50 missions ... intoduce a ranked 2 tier of assults that unlock once you hit captain rank offering new revised assults with new areas harder mobs or objectives

Salvage incoperate it sorta like nysil isle and a assults round 2 combined. offering a harder course and ways upgrade more armour with more harder mobs.

A introduction to Kindred crest burning circle notorious monsters ... still waiting on this

A introduction to High kindred crest buring circle notorious monsters.... still waititng on this also

Incoperate a better reward sytem and harder quest line post 10 for windy sandy bastok

intorduce a second part of sky with a higher tier that needs acess via having the tital of killing kirin to be able to enter that posses higher ranked gods on a more elevated zone. (after all its sky isnt the sky limitless) The same could go for similar instances in sea

I would like to see a more insurgance for stuff complex to players 76~99 than going around low man spamming stuff in old "weaker zones". Dont get me wrong I love abby, I just think alot of stuff is abby based and other areas of the game could do with a improvement to help compencate for more of a epic level challenge areas for us high levels .... especialy something where I am not on a time based limit like abby.

Just random thoughts of how to allievate the eazyness of the game you are saying... I have felt it also in alot of stuff... i do wish some these things can turn about and a harder version or more testable thing is incoperated..... In thus the ultimate challeneg we all strive for it :) lolz

[Ramsos]

No sane person wants to keep running sky, or sea, or dynamis, or einherjar. These events had their time, now we can look forward to what their replacements bring.

I wouldnt mind letting sky/sea die, but personally I enjoy einherjar and would like to see new tiers added. Dynamis is getting a revamp, so it might be alot better than it has been. I hope ZNM stays dead though.

[Greatguardian]

I wouldnt mind letting sky/sea die, but personally I enjoy einherjar and would like to see new tiers added. Dynamis is getting a revamp, so it might be alot better than it has been. I hope ZNM stays dead though.

I'm with this guy. Einherjazz is a lot of fun, and it's quick. The rewards are really lame (mainly because of the required timesink between each Odin fight), but it's probably the only 75-cap Endgame where that didn't bother me. Ichor rewards were also a great idea, and I hope to see future Endgame take advantage of similar systems.

[Aureus]

I wouldnt mind letting sky/sea die, but personally I enjoy einherjar and would like to see new tiers added. Dynamis is getting a revamp, so it might be alot better than it has been. I hope ZNM stays dead though.
The dynamis redesign is exactly what I'm talking about. They killed off the old event, and replaced it with something new. Granted, the same basic concept is there, but SE seems to be all about taking the unnecessary grindyness out of FFXI lately. As far as I'm concerned, thats a good thing.

As for einherjar, while the event itself isn't that bad, you've got to admit it has some serious flaws. Requiring 3 mules to do odin on any sort of reliable schedule (not to mention that odin drops are largely irrelevant now), having to gather in an extremely out-of-the-way location, 180k entrance fee, arbitrary 3-day lockout, etc.

[Magnum]

Hate to break it to you, but XP parties have never and will never be challenging. What they were was tedious. Now they're not. Removing tedium is always a good thing.
This is exactly what I was expecting.
Quick fix, fast completion, is this what Xi is comming down to...
This MMO in the beginning was "hard", it promoted people to actually "work as a team", not just play as if it were a 1-player game, that was the "fun". We actually made friends, not alienated people, due to the fact that we "had" to work together. Maybe i'm getting too old for this, but my values of friendship, comeraderie, and faith in other people still hold today, as they did way back in 2004 when I started playing.
These values seem to have become lost imo, due to the fact that people now want instant rewards, w/o working for them, hence the title I gave this thread.
91-99 needs to be hard, people need to work together again, make those social bonds that once made this game great.

[Ramsos]

The dynamis redesign is exactly what I'm talking about. They killed off the old event, and replaced it with something new. Granted, the same basic concept is there, but SE seems to be all about taking the unnecessary grindyness out of FFXI lately. As far as I'm concerned, thats a good thing.

As for einherjar, while the event itself isn't that bad, you've got to admit it has some serious flaws. Requiring 3 mules to do odin on any sort of reliable schedule (not to mention that odin drops are largely irrelevant now), having to gather in an extremely out-of-the-way location, 180k entrance fee, arbitrary 3-day lockout, etc.

Oh I agree 100% that einherjar has flaws and could be streamlined. I like the event though, would be sad to see it go poof altogether.

[Aureus]

This is exactly what I was expecting.
Quick fix, fast completion, is this what Xi is comming down to...
This MMO in the beginning was "hard", it promoted people to actually "work as a team", not just play as if it were a 1-player game, that was the "fun". We actually made friends, not alienated people, due to the fact that we "had" to work together. Maybe i'm getting too old for this, but my values of friendship, comeraderie, and faith in other people still hold today, as they did way back in 2004 when I started playing.
Current XPing allows "teams" of up to 18, instead of 6. ∴ Current XPing is 3 times better than old XPing by your logic, since you can team up with that many more friends.


These values seem to have become lost imo, due to the fact that people now want instant rewards, w/o working for them, hence the title I gave this thread.
91-99 needs to be hard, people need to work together again, make those social bonds that once made this game great.
People have always wanted better, faster xp. Did you try levelling a DRG or MNK back in 2004-2005? Those jobs were, at the time, seen as subpar. They had a nasty habit of getting to 50ish and then not receiving invites for weeks at a time.

91-99 doesn't need to take a long time to foster bonds between players. Try actually talking to people in your abyssea parties, instead of just complaining about leechers, or whatever it is you do.

[Magnum]

People have always wanted better, faster xp. Did you try levelling a DRG or MNK back in 2004-2005? Those jobs were, at the time, seen as subpar. They had a nasty habit of getting to 50ish and then not receiving invites for weeks at a time.


75 DRG was my 1st job to 75, yes I recall the days my 2hr was "Recall Wyvern", and sitting in Jeuno flag up.

[Sparthos]

This is exactly what I was expecting.
Quick fix, fast completion, is this what Xi is comming down to...
This MMO in the beginning was "hard", it promoted people to actually "work as a team", not just play as if it were a 1-player game, that was the "fun". We actually made friends, not alienated people, due to the fact that we "had" to work together. Maybe i'm getting too old for this, but my values of friendship, comeraderie, and faith in other people still hold today, as they did way back in 2004 when I started playing.
These values seem to have become lost imo, due to the fact that people now want instant rewards, w/o working for them, hence the title I gave this thread.
91-99 needs to be hard, people need to work together again, make those social bonds that once made this game great.

EXP was never working as a team, it was pure grind for hours just to get one level and a marginal upgrade of gear if you got lucky.

Yes, part of the charm of XI was the fact that everything seemed hard and everything seemed like a mountain to climb with your friends and i'll probably never forget the first journey to 75 but by my fourth run to cap, I was annoyed, bored and hated EXP because 90% of parties sucked hard.

You always had problems with finding a tank, refresh or some puller (hi2uBRD) Yes, not every PT had DD tanks because that depended on either having PLs, ideal as hell camps or an amazing support team. EXP was just troublesome.

@HNMs

As much as I hear "shit was easy", people wiped and wiped often. Countless times I saw Khims wiped by botting LS' so people are totally talking with their ass or perhaps my server just sucked. What the reality was is that most shells had A teams and B teams.

The A teams were usually the most hardcore (skill or toolwise) and made HNMs look easy but when those people weren't online the B team usually took over and those people usually were average meaning subject to human failure. I suspect that HNMs scaled up of a similar difficulty would be enough to feed the hunger for challenge for 90% of the endgame population.

Honestly SE should take a different approach with HNMs. How about some puzzles or a dungeon crawl requiring multiple tasks like opening doors or something? Nyzul for alliances in a sense.

[Morgantisthedon]

Maybe SE has made all these things semi eazier so peopel could finaly get people done with them to incoperate updated harder epic related stuff in a new city new area or zone. ATM still all I can do is speculate and think of ideas how to redo older ideas (see previous post I made with some ideas ) SE has had to make them challenging unless they come out with a new area based city encompasing the true power a 76~99 chcracter can do.
I do like abby also gives me a chance to go in and fee godly for awile but I would like the devotion to other harder or revamped additions so I am specificaly not stuck in there or going to older eazier events.
For the time being all we can do is speculate and voice our concerns and hope they see.... who knows they might have a grand scale comming for us ... they even mentioned a kindred crest style fights coming soon.... Plus I am sure they are hard at works with revamping other ideas people have had.... I am sure of this though its not a matter of they are not going to incoperate the stuff we all lust after... Impossible quests hard events for epic level characters. Its probably a more as when they are going to invent it and incopoerate it.
Thus I believe is one the reasons they created these forums to see players feedback and suggestions. Given time a moderator can notice it pass it onto a devo. and work on our stuff we all want. Till then i say remain patient. We still got 91-99 updates to come to get to the goal anyways and this is all new ground breaking areas I am sure they are hard at work with all us in mind :)

[Ryland]

Don't know about you doods, but I'm going to lv sync abyssea burn my jobs to 99.

[annewandering]

I want to get to 99 fast but I also know it does me a lot of good to slow down and see how things change. One thing I am certain of is that when my Abyssea LS goes out to try some harder stuff I need to be able to keep them healed up and alive. I am thinking I will do whm as quick as possible but the rest more leisurely while I check out whms new stuff.

[Dale]

OK, I know i'm probably going to get flamed for this, but, for the last 2-3 years we as players have had it "easy".

"Easy" you say... Think about it, ToAU, spoon fed content, the "3" add-on expansions, just candy with nice stats for either WS or looking good in w/e area you hang out in. Abyssea, a nice easy ride from 75-90, ok Atmas were a pain in the ass, and Shinryu was a nice distraction.

But seriously, players, where have the challenges gone within this game?

I spent months/years doing CoP and Zillart missions, to be confronted by yet more challenges in Sky & Sea, with Abyssea, since its implementation, its been a joke.

What XI needs is a new challenge along the lines of the "old school" content, a challenge, not just an expansion to lolgrind thru, but a "proper" challenge, hard mobs, make us be glad to earn our levels, rather than grind away for 2-3 hrs on easy mode.

Feel free to flame me, but I really enjoy this game, and I miss the old content.

I agree they've made gaining exp too easy.

[Morgantisthedon]

Don't know about you doods, but I'm going to lv sync abyssea burn my jobs to 99. I think most of us have leveling and getting merrits realy isnt the challenge anymore lol.( Even if they dont want to admit it or not I am sure we all have in some way somewhere )
Back to the topic though of the thread :)
I am looking for something more event quest nm related to challenge me other than trials (i love those also though) To occupy my free time i have now since I am now open to much more free time because this and enjoy that aspect of the game. Even if low maning kirin ,Brewing nms in abby or taking my bst buddies out and slaughtering events of the past still has me wanting craving a more challenged based system or something to do with my new levels that can be time consuming or needs people

[Raka]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but the reason I think SquareEnix allowed such an easy form of Experience Point gain is most likely for the reason of a much larger level gap, 1~90 and soon 99. They didn't want players to spend another several months just to relevel their jobs from 75 to 99 and then an even longer period of time to earn the newely awaiting merits they plan to add.

Would be just too much of a hassle with all the new content: Magian trials, Seal farming, Zone bosses, Caturea(sp), while having existing events with your Linkshells, and work/school/etc. Players would fall too far behind, and I'm sure even now, some still do. Regardless of the level cap increases in phases that stretch out for a year+.

I agree to us needing harder content though, but I must disagree that it be Exping.

[Kuishen]

Both sides have pro's and cons. So in short - I doubt you will see the "hard" setting getting bumped up for 90-99.

I have yet to see any positive effect exping the "old way" can give. So no, both sides don't have pro's.

[Yarly]

I have yet to see any positive effect exping the "old way" can give. So no, both sides don't have pro's.

the ignorant will tell you that less newbs will be there, more accomplishment feeling on the inside, epeen status, etc. are the pros

[magnius]

Why is there another topic about EXPing? Why not just bump one of the other two threads about EXP?


Y
Abyssea is, at best, transitional content. Think of it as something to keep us occupied until the "new" endgame at 99 cap. It's not particularly challenging, nor should it be. It's a good baseline to get people equipped for 99 endgame.

Also, this.

[svengalis]

OK, I know i'm probably going to get flamed for this, but, for the last 2-3 years we as players have had it "easy".

"Easy" you say... Think about it, ToAU, spoon fed content, the "3" add-on expansions, just candy with nice stats for either WS or looking good in w/e area you hang out in. Abyssea, a nice easy ride from 75-90, ok Atmas were a pain in the ass, and Shinryu was a nice distraction.

But seriously, players, where have the challenges gone within this game?

I spent months/years doing CoP and Zillart missions, to be confronted by yet more challenges in Sky & Sea, with Abyssea, since its implementation, its been a joke.

What XI needs is a new challenge along the lines of the "old school" content, a challenge, not just an expansion to lolgrind thru, but a "proper" challenge, hard mobs, make us be glad to earn our levels, rather than grind away for 2-3 hrs on easy mode.

Feel free to flame me, but I really enjoy this game, and I miss the old content.

Would you mind soloing Rani for me?

[svengalis]

We still don't know what 99 cap is going to bring. Don't know what all the complaining is about.

[jeffanddane]

Can you please tell me where to get that sig XD!

[Aureus]

Would you mind soloing Rani for me?
I've 2boxed it with a brew after triggering, does that count?

Also, one more thing to keep in mind for nostalgia difficulty: back when CoP and RoTZ were considered "hard", we were all...well...stupid. The effect of str, WS mods, haste, etc. weren't very well understood back then. With a proper understanding of game mechanics, none of the old "hard" events were ever very difficult; we just weren't educated enough to approach them properly.

[Andylynn]

OK, I know i'm probably going to get flamed for this, but, for the last 2-3 years we as players have had it "easy".

"Easy" you say... Think about it, ToAU, spoon fed content, the "3" add-on expansions, just candy with nice stats for either WS or looking good in w/e area you hang out in. Abyssea, a nice easy ride from 75-90, ok Atmas were a pain in the ass, and Shinryu was a nice distraction.

But seriously, players, where have the challenges gone within this game?

I spent months/years doing CoP and Zillart missions, to be confronted by yet more challenges in Sky & Sea, with Abyssea, since its implementation, its been a joke.

What XI needs is a new challenge along the lines of the "old school" content, a challenge, not just an expansion to lolgrind thru, but a "proper" challenge, hard mobs, make us be glad to earn our levels, rather than grind away for 2-3 hrs on easy mode.

Feel free to flame me, but I really enjoy this game, and I miss the old content.

there never really was consuming content in difficulty, it was all mostly tedium and monotony. do you really want to go back to a game where only those who wasted their lives away had good stuff and you were inferior? i find the current system a lot more lax on casual people who just want to enjoy the game for what it is, i mean, i could understand a new add-on, or difficult nms requiring nonzerg strategy. but really, i appreciate where gear is now, it is quite a bit of work for those of us without a regular LS.

[svengalis]

I've 2boxed it with a brew after triggering, does that count?

Also, one more thing to keep in mind for nostalgia difficulty: back when CoP and RoTZ were considered "hard", we were all...well...stupid. The effect of str, WS mods, haste, etc. weren't very well understood back then. With a proper understanding of game mechanics, none of the old "hard" events were ever very difficult; we just weren't educated enough to approach them properly.

I actually said no brew then edited it LOL. Yeah most Abyssea mobs can be soloed with brew but then again we have seen Avesta solo just about anything in the game at 75 so was the old content, was it really all that hard to begin with?

[svengalis]

there never really was consuming content in difficulty, it was all mostly tedium and monotony. do you really want to go back to a game where only those who wasted their lives away had good stuff and you were inferior? i find the current system a lot more lax on casual people who just want to enjoy the game for what it is, i mean, i could understand a new add-on, or difficult nms requiring nonzerg strategy. but really, i appreciate where gear is now, it is quite a bit of work for those of us without a regular LS.

Yup. This is why I have continued to play. I just recently restarted last year with some friends at work who played. They no longer play but I still do though because alot of end game gear is actually quite obtainable without having an end game LS. On my first account I had an end game LS but I didn't get much end game gear because of the times I played. I was about to quit again but then I saw so many people walking around in +1 +2 gear. I thought to myself if this many people have this gear it can't be that hard to get.

I looked up how to get the seals and realize even at the time I play it is possible for me to obtain the seals. May take awhile but one day I should be able to have all +2 gear for my characters. I would have quit long ago again if I thought I couldn't obtain end game gear without an endgame LS.

[Airenn]

there never really was consuming content in difficulty, it was all mostly tedium and monotony. do you really want to go back to a game where only those who wasted their lives away had good stuff and you were inferior? i find the current system a lot more lax on casual people who just want to enjoy the game for what it is, i mean, i could understand a new add-on, or difficult nms requiring nonzerg strategy. but really, i appreciate where gear is now, it is quite a bit of work for those of us without a regular LS.

I sure appreciate it, too, TearV. I sure do, too.

[Eligia]

I just came back after 2 years and had to start completely fresh. This new content and exp system is incredible. There was nothing great about the old way. It was just repetitive and slow. There's no way I'd be playing if I had to go through the CoP shitstorm again. I think everyone is just crying because less experienced players are making the same progress it took you years to accomplish. BFD.

[Aureus]

I just came back after 2 years and had to start completely fresh. This new content and exp system is incredible. There was nothing great about the old way. It was just repetitive and slow. There's no way I'd be playing if I had to go through the CoP shitstorm again. I think everyone is just crying because less experienced players are making the same progress it took you years to accomplish. BFD.
That's essentially it in a nutshell. There was exactly the same response when the level 20 avatar fights were added. Many, many people were upset that it "cheapened" their accomplishments. At this point, I think we can all look back and say that it corrected a very necessary issue.

[Andylynn]

I just came back after 2 years and had to start completely fresh. This new content and exp system is incredible. There was nothing great about the old way. It was just repetitive and slow. There's no way I'd be playing if I had to go through the CoP shitstorm again. I think everyone is just crying because less experienced players are making the same progress it took you years to accomplish. BFD.

i'd be in that boat, i got 3 90 jobs, 3 full sets of AF3, nyzul 100, finished COP, near finished empyrean weapon within first 3 months of play. some call it epic, others go loleasymode, u suck. personally, im glad i got to enjoy the content as i did, and don't think i would've been able to like it was back then.

[Eligia]

I enjoyed the game in 2004, and I enjoy it just as much now. FFXI is basically an extremely interactive chat room, anyway. I'm glad I don't have to wait months and months to finish missions and get pretty gear for myself again.

[Airenn]

i'd be in that boat, i got 3 90 jobs, 3 full sets of AF3, nyzul 100, finished COP, near finished empyrean weapon within first 3 months of play. some call it epic, others go loleasymode, u suck. personally, im glad i got to enjoy the content as i did, and don't think i would've been able to like it was back then.

Wow, TearValerin, did you know that you have exactly everything Andylynn has, too? So amazing!

[Henihhi]

OOO 3 90 jobs and full af+3.... so accomplished. I hope to god they add some serious content soon. Abyssea content is great for xp but lolend game at best.If this is SE's strategy to push us into playing 14 it is failing miserably. It is just creating more retards that want to brag about their lolachievements.

[Dale]

I have yet to see any positive effect exping the "old way" can give. So no, both sides don't have pro's.

I'll give you some pros Kuishen. Longevity. Also i'm a bit old-fashioned i'll admit. I do miss the old days when RPGs weren't just a race to finish line so you can start spamming "endgame". This premis has ruined a lot of promising games. The only reason it doesn't kill this one is because FF has such a vast, fun, and rewarding endgame - so it's not a huge a problem with this one. But I do think MMOs need to change this whole leveling system or just scrap it all together - because it is obvioulsy not working anymore. Every game ends up scrapping it and just turning it into something quick you just get over fast as possible so the real game can start.

[Kuishen]

I'll give you some pros Kuishen. Longevity. Also i'm a bit old-fashioned i'll admit. I do miss the old days when RPGs weren't just a race to finish line so you can start spamming "endgame". This premis has ruined a lot of promising games. The only reason it doesn't kill this one is because FF has such a vast, fun, and rewarding endgame - so it's not a huge a problem with this one. But I do think MMOs need to change this whole leveling system or just scrap it all together - because it is obvioulsy not working anymore. Every game ends up scrapping it and just turning it into something quick you just get over fast as possible so the real game can start.

Game has been running 8 years, and abyssea has been in for over half a year, longevity isn't a pro because it was never an issue in the first place.

[Dale]

Game has been running 8 years, and abyssea has been in for over half a year, longevity isn't a pro because it was never an issue in the first place.

Well the game has lost some of its longevity because of it. You can't argue that.

But you are right in a sense, as I pointed out in my post. With this game it's not a serious issue because FF11 has such an extensive amount of content availabe endgame. It's been the death kneel though of a lot of others. And it has hurt this game in some respects. A lot of areas and content is never enjoyed by players because they simply outgrow it too fast.

[Seriha]

People looking for challenge are more than free to fight the harder Abyssea NMs without cruor buffs or atma. Could step that back further and use sub-par gear. Just don't be surprised if few are actually interested in doing so because even in "EZ MODE!" FFXI, there's still some grind to it.

[Malamasala]

Why do people STILL talk about challenging content? Not a single person who has ever complained about this has had the will to participate in hard content. Want a challenge? Kill AV without melee zerg... oh wait, you don't want to do that because you want to "do as much damage as possible while still being hard"... ok so lets add NM with 100 000 000 000 HP... no now you'll complain that you don't want to fight for 24 straight hours.

Just accept that whatever SE makes, you'll take the easy way out. And you'll be complaining for life.

[Mojo]

Well, one of the problems with the challenging content that was in the game before was how bottlenecked it was. Like even fighting AV required doing a large amount of tedious tasks. I don't find grinding to be challenging, just long and boring. I like the format of Abyssea, I hope that they keep it, but would like to see harder fights that may require around 6 people.

[Coldbrand]

No thanks. Mindless grinding doesn't prove anything.

[Wade]

I would like to see them implement both. Add more content to Aby for the people who just want to zip to 99 and be done with the game, but also add something harder for the people who would like a challenge. Preferably something "new".