You stay classy, FFXI.

[Bersty]

After much deliberation, I have come to a decision I feel has been a long time coming... The time to leave the land of Vana'Diel, indefinitely. This may simply go upon deaf ears; however, I feel a genuine heart felt departure was indeed necessary after 10+ years of playing this game since NA launch.

It's no mystery that FFXI has indeed reached it's peak, some years ago. Today it is quite evident that it is a mere after thought to FFXIV. My reasons for hanging up my hat; however, stem from something else... Pure recklessness.

For the better part of the past 3+ years I have worked with a small group of friends towards the completion of a Death Penalty mythic weapon. Starting this quest long before the increase in level cap, before abyssea, or even iLVL gear. This was the driving force behind my reason of playing FFXI, my purpose in-game. At times, focus was solely on this "gun", at times it was focused on helping others within my tight knit group (which at times grew, at times returned to our group of four). We worked together in unison towards our "goals" and had a ton of fun doing it.

To be quite honest, even when the iLVL 119 upgrades were announced for the weapons, I wasn't overly enthusiastic, as it was seemingly done to "keep people happy", or to "shut up the whiners". Truth be told, it did provide a small push towards completion of the weapon, as we (as a group) were now nearing the final 10,000 alexandrite required for completion.

This week, the version update dropped.

This is where the final bit of recklessness tipped my hand towards making that final click to cancel subscriptions. An inadvertent nerf to the Death Penalty was implemented. It was done without prior discussion, consultation or even presentation by either the devs or the community team. The question I was left with is: How many of these guns actually exist to merit this adjustment to maintain "game balance". To do this type of change at this point in the games life just seems reckless, or that whoever is running "the show" doesn't care.

This is just the tip of the iceberg though.

Has anyone noticed how un-policed the game has been of late? Since my subscription is already cancelled; I will elaborate, has anyone noticed that characters are seemingly roaming at an alarmingly quick pace? Or the fact that around 10% of the online population is in Beaucedine Glacier? To a point, I get it... however, the amount of outright "cheating" that occurs on a daily basis in FFXI these days is just plain and simply inexcusable. Vana'Diel has lost it's integrity as a game as is so painstakingly evident that there is such a tremendous lack of effort to maintain the simplest aspects of it. Couple that loss of integrity along with content that is just simply not intriguing in any way and there you have it, the downward spiral continues. Call it a rant, I implore that it is not. It is sometimes just nice to peel back the curtain and say it how it is.

This is not; however, to say that SE will no longer get my money, as they will. My money will go to FFXIV: ARR as the potential and ceiling for the game are seemingly infinite at this point in it's life. In the case of FFXI, it simply has nowhere else to go from here but into the history books.

It's been a wonderful 10+ years FFXI, filled with many fond memories and accomplishments. The friends and community I have experienced in this game will truly last a lifetime, as I have no doubt I will continue to enjoy their company in Eorzea.

It's been a thin slice of heaven FFXI, you stay classy!

~Bersty

[camaroz]

lol and you think 14 is any better with regards to botting

[Bersty]

Don't know, don't care.

I do think; however, that they might just actually do something about it in XIV.

Take care Camaroz, I hope you continue to enjoy Vana'Diel.

[camaroz]

Take care enjoy those coils

[Alhanelem]

Uh, I've been all over the world on shiva and never seen any of this kind of cheating.

Really, I can imagine certain reasons why people would quit, but cheating? Cmon, there is hardly any. (You do realize that they increased everybody's movement speed right.

This version update is actually one of the best in a long while for me, so its a shame that you've picked this time to throw in the towel, but hey, your choice.

(What the hell is there in Beaucedine that people would be willing to cheat for? And why the hell is it a problem now when I've never heard of anyone complaining about this prior to today?)

[svengalis]

They really have been giving us what we want lately, for some time really. I do see what you are saying about the cheating I'm guilty of that somewhat to(I don't fish bot but I do use third party tools but don't most people: windower?) but I don't see the fish botting as a big deal anymore because Gil has become an afterthought these days.

[Bersty]

You do realize that they increased everybody's movement speed right.

Yes, I do realize this; however, what I am referring to is the obvious and blatant use of a third party tools that is overly-abused and seemingly unchecked.


What the hell is there in Beaucedine that people would be willing to cheat for? And why the hell is it a problem now when I've never heard of anyone complaining about this prior to today?

I can't see a reason why people would complain about making gil in a relatively easy manner while being at work IRL... Also, I wasn't complaining about it, merely stating it as a matter of fact.

To be clear, my intention of quitting is not because of cheating; rather, the lack of effort by our game developers to do anything about it (when it is so seemingly obvious). Further, I respect that they have been giving us "what we want" lately, it still doesn't change the fact that the challenges they add are simply not interesting anymore, personally.

Alhanelem, I'm happy to hear that Vana'Diel still has that sense of "shock and awe" to you, and that it is genuinely something you can still enjoy. For me; however, I just feel that I no longer have any adventures to intrigue me in Vana'Diel.

[Umichi]

compared to how FFXI was the term cheating and botting. And the fact that I hardly ever even see bots anymore I'ma call shenanigans! who dares step forth to be the judge of this initiation?!


Lemme edit by saying SE has gone to great efforts to minimize the amount of cheating that has occured over the past decade in this game. they even made a task force that went about investigating everything. Adjustments so gil wasn't abused have consistantly taken place, fishing bots have ded down, RMT's messaging us practiclly zero.

[Bersty]

Lemme edit by saying SE has gone to great efforts to minimize the amount of cheating that has occured over the past decade in this game. they even made a task force that went about investigating everything. Adjustments so gil wasn't abused have consistantly taken place, fishing bots have ded down, RMT's messaging us practiclly zero.

Umichi, my reasoning was not to contend with the fact that SE did their due-diligence over the past decade as you suggest; rather, that the current state of the game is virtually un-policed. This is especially evident in comparison to before. The notion that fishing bots have died down and that we have less RMT tells is merely an effect of the decrease in the player base and interest in the game (supply/demand).

Cheers

[detlef]

I'm no gun expert, but wasn't the base damage of 119 Death Penalty pretty out of line with any other gun in the game? So out of line to the point where you would say that it was an obvious oversight?

[Zumi]

Uh, I've been all over the world on shiva and never seen any of this kind of cheating.

Really, I can imagine certain reasons why people would quit, but cheating? Cmon, there is hardly any. (You do realize that they increased everybody's movement speed right.

This version update is actually one of the best in a long while for me, so its a shame that you've picked this time to throw in the towel, but hey, your choice.

(What the hell is there in Beaucedine that people would be willing to cheat for? And why the hell is it a problem now when I've never heard of anyone complaining about this prior to today?)

Go to the coast in Beaucedine its the popular spot for people who fish because the fish there npc for a lot. They npc all the fish puts ton of gil in the economy

[Alhanelem]

no problem, they'll just make the npc price worthless so that fishing becomes more useless :p


Alhanelem, I'm happy to hear that Vana'Diel still has that sense of "shock and awe" to you, and that it is genuinely something you can still enjoy. For me; however, I just feel that I no longer have any adventures to intrigue me in Vana'Diel. If you're bored with it, just say you're bored. That's fine. You're projecting your feelings into other issues when the real fact of the matter is that you're just bored with it. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. So why wrap that up in a guise of ragequitting over cheaters?

Basically, the reasons you're suggesting now are not really the reasons you gave in your original post.

In general terms btw, it's best if you want to quit to just quit. Don't tell anybody about it, just move on. It kind drags other people down with you. whatever issue you have isn't something SE can simply 'fix," so saying why you're quitting doesn't really benefit anybody.

[Carth]

Probably is a good time to check out FFXIV, considering they're about a week away from updating to 2.1.

I got bored of XIV though, because endgame is nothing more than grinding Mythology tomes until you cap for the week.

[Karbuncle]

I'm no gun expert, but wasn't the base damage of 119 Death Penalty pretty out of line with any other gun in the game? So out of line to the point where you would say that it was an obvious oversight?

You would be correct. It was an immediately obvious gross overpowering of the weapon to anyone with a hint of brain power.


Probably is a good time to check out FFXIV, considering they're about a week away from updating to 2.1.

I got bored of XIV though, because endgame is nothing more than grinding Mythology tomes until you cap for the week.

After playing (and enjoying mind you) FFXIV for about 2-3 months, I can safely say 2.1 offers nothing of interest... I'd say wait about a year and maybe they'll be off the "Once a week" Lockout crap so endgame is more than logging on every monday for 4-5 hours to finish capping all your weekly tasks then waiting til next monday.

[Alhanelem]

After playing (and enjoying mind you) FFXIV for about 2-3 months, I can safely say 2.1 offers nothing of interest...You can't safely say that until it comes out. Maybe try the content before you shoot it all down?


Lockout crap so endgame is more than logging on every monday for 4-5 hours to finish capping all your weekly tasks then waiting til next monday. If the only thing you care about is loot, sure, once you have all the darklight for all the jobs and have all crafts to 50 with all the best gear for them and all the DoH's to 50 and all the best gear for those, and beaten Twintania, then it might be a "monday game." This "lockout crap" is no worse than Dynamis in its heyday or assault or salvage or the avatar quests etc. all of which have or had lockouts on them at some point. Abyssea has a lockout that eases over time as you progress in it.

There is more to do for most people than you can complete in one day unless you ultra hardcore, and I mean ULTRA hardcore.


I don't think ff14 is a good game at all. Is just my imho, it lacks sophistication, and the core input system is not make me feel special. If I want to watch a movie I have some great DVD's <over there> but when I'm gaming I want more user-input and more user friendly game nodes than what 14 has got.*scratches head* If you liken FFXIV to watching a movie, then you never actually played it at all... and "core input system is not make me feel special" ... what? I'm not even sure what this means.

'I want more user-input and more user-friendly kinetic integer nodes than what 14 has got." I don't know what a "kinetic integer mode" is, but FFXIV has all the "user input" you could ever ask for. How far in the game did you play? You can't seriously play any of the endgame content in XIV and tell me it doesn't require enough user input from you.

Both XI and XIV are good games for different reasons, though it's difficult to compare a game that's been out for 11 years to a game that's been out for less than 4 months.

[Alhanelem]

which are not the same as what a lot of gamer kids today consider a "good game."
You are not sure what I mean, but you had never heard of Beaudecine fishbots either until just now. I don't appreciate you taking stabs at me like this. I have never heard of Beaucadine fish bots because 1) I rarely visit that zone and 2) I have been away from the game for months and I don't keep track of how people cheat in a game that I'm not actively playing.
Next, I'm not just some "gamer kid." I'm 30 years old and I contribute to society. You may be older than me but that doesn't give you the right to talk down to me.


Also I compare 2013 games with 1981 games, time is immaterial, I rate games on playability alone.You can't compare a real life game to a video game and have an accurate view of "playability." What makes a video game playable is a lot different than what makes a sport or other real life game playable.

Ever heard of comparing apples and oranges? That's what you're doing. You're comparing two different games that aren't even played with the same medium much less being in the same genre.


Also how did you reply to my post before I actually posted it, by seven minutes. There is this feature called "Edit post." I chose to edit my post rather than make another one. It comes from FFXIV's forum having a cap on posts per day and thus people often get around it by editing one post.


FFxi originally was high user input, the game didn't help you at all and was happy to see you die over nothing. FF14 is the opposite, User-input % is low, and the game is forgiving and will play itself if you nudge it and pewpew occasionally.This isn't true at all. You demonstrated to me with this statement that you haven't really played the game. Go fight the primals and run Bahamut's coil and tell me the user input % is low. The game does not "play itself," and doing nothing is the surest way to fail, unlike in xi where auto attacking is powerful enough to kill enemies in many cases. When I play Warrior in FFXI, I engage, use all my cooldowns when I have TP, use a weapon skill, and go to the next room and grab a cup of coffee. When I come back, my TP is back ready for another weapon skill. In FFXIV, I'm pressing buttons and giving commands at all times.

Also, "not helping you at all" and "happy to see you die over nothing" are not marks of good game design. While I don't advocate hand holding, giving the player no information is the surest way to lose that player. It took years before FFXI even had anything resembling a tutorial. It was one game where reading the manual sure wasn't optional, that much is for sure.

[Draylo]

You can't safely say that until it comes out. Maybe try the content before you shoot it all down?

If the only thing you care about is loot, sure, once you have all the darklight for all the jobs and have all crafts to 50 with all the best gear for them and all the DoH's to 50 and all the best gear for those, and beaten Twintania, then it might be a "monday game." This "lockout crap" is no worse than Dynamis in its heyday or assault or salvage or the avatar quests etc. all of which have or had lockouts on them at some point. Abyssea has a lockout that eases over time as you progress in it.

There is more to do for most people than you can complete in one day unless you ultra hardcore, and I mean ULTRA hardcore.

*scratches head* If you liken FFXIV to watching a movie, then you never actually played it at all... and "core input system is not make me feel special" ... what? I'm not even sure what this means.

'I want more user-input and more user-friendly kinetic integer nodes than what 14 has got." I don't know what a "kinetic integer mode" is, but FFXIV has all the "user input" you could ever ask for. How far in the game did you play? You can't seriously play any of the endgame content in XIV and tell me it doesn't require enough user input from you.

Both XI and XIV are good games for different reasons, though it's difficult to compare a game that's been out for 11 years to a game that's been out for less than 4 months.

Yet people with only 5 lvl 99 jobs complain about nothing to do in XI. They should have gotten all of the jobs to 99, all crafts maxed, all mythics/relics/emps for each job before passing judgment right? According to you.

[Alhanelem]

Yet people with only 5 lvl 99 jobs complain about nothing to do in XI. They should have gotten all of the jobs to 99, all crafts maxed, all mythics/relics/emps for each job before passing judgment right? According to you. You know what? Yes. Complaining about lack of things to do when you haven't done all the things is illogical.

Really the only reason anyone at all is in a position to complain about lack of things to do is because the game is way less grindy than FFXI, which from a gameplay standpoint is a good thing, even if it means the devs have less time to create new content before people finish the last content (which is the only reason lockouts exist in the first place in any MMO).

Also, FFXIV, yet to receive its first major content patch, has about as much content as FFXI did at its original launch in Japan (and with less bugs and issues), so they really aren't in a bad spot as long as they are able to deliver their content on schedule (we'd already have 2.1 by now but it was held up by the time that was needed to address the server / login issues)

[Alhanelem]

Playability was the prime-requisite of game reviewing in the 1980s, it was considered more important than graphics.And it still is. Any review source that doesn't proritize it isn't worth reading. But FFXIV has good gameplay, not just shiny graphics.


In summary just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean other people are wrong about it. That was why I raised the fishbots as an example of this.
And People have been fishbotting in that zone for years, so your few months away from the game wouldnt make a difference.Again, I was never exposed to it. I didn't do it myself, and nobody I ever played with talked about it. Why should I know about it then? You stop just short of calling me ignorant here even though I had legitimate reason not to know about it.


> Even if they were different genres, I could still compare playability.You can't compare playability at any more than the most basic level of things like "do the controls work / are intuitive" and "is it fun?" The characteristics of a game with good playability in one genre are not all the same as those in another genre. The aspects of a good, playable puzzle game are very different from the aspects of a good, playable beat-em-up.


In summary just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean other people are wrong about it.I called you wrong because you made statements about a game that demonstrated you had not played it (or had not played it enough). Like many games FFXIV is fairly simple as you get started, but becomes much more involved as you progress to later content. I understand some people like being hurled into a world without a clue and want to figure everything out on their own, but in my opinion, early on guidance and tutorials are vaulable in retaining a potential player.

I could not get into games like Minecraft, Terraria, and to a lesser extent Starbound because these games all basically drop you in the middle of a (randomly generated) world and don't even tell you the controls much less the basics of how to play. In Terraria my first time playing for instance the game started me right next to a cliff and before I could even figure out the controls some enemy pushed me over the edge and killed me. That to me is not good game design. The player should be given at least a basic sense of what a game is about prior to being thrust into something.

I managed to get into FFXI back when it came out, just barely. It took me a while to figure out all the controls, much less what to do, because the game gave little information to you except through a handful of NPCs in the cities who tell you the basics but you can't even easily identify them until you already know the stuff they're going to tell you. Eventually they improved these issues but let me tell you, quite a few friends of mine quit because they couldn't figure the game out (this was back when it was new).

TL;DR, you (allegedly) quit XIV because it was holding your hand at the beginning. You implied to me you hadn't played the game much because you said the game has a low input % which I know not to be true because there are many encounters in the game which require contstant, intelligent control of your character to survive.

[Karbuncle]

You know what? Yes. Complaining about lack of things to do when you haven't done all the things is illogical.

Really the only reason anyone at all is in a position to complain about lack of things to do is because the game is way less grindy than FFXI, which from a gameplay standpoint is a good thing, even if it means the devs have less time to create new content before people finish the last content (which is the only reason lockouts exist in the first place in any MMO).

Also, FFXIV, yet to receive its first major content patch, has about as much content as FFXI did at its original launch in Japan (and with less bugs and issues), so they really aren't in a bad spot as long as they are able to deliver their content on schedule (we'd already have 2.1 by now but it was held up by the time that was needed to address the server / login issues)

A game, specifically an MMO is meant to appeal to many different types of players, with content for each to experience. a single person in an MMO is not expected to experience every instance of content as its expected that some may not appeal to them, such as crafting, leveling different jobs, and so forth. Most MMO companies know this and some even say this openly. To expect a person to go out of their way to participate in content they actively distaste, like being a Healer, or leveling Crafts, or doing H.E.L.M activities just to have "more content" is the illogical assumption to me.

This is why they plan content for each type accordingly. Offering content for Crafting folk, content for the gatheres, content for party players, big and small, and content for soloers and so forth. They offer content for all types of players because they know all types of players exist in their game, no one but the players themselves seem to be oblivious or just foolhardy enough to believe every single MMO player should be for to experience every single content clearly designed for specific players in mind before they can claim "Lack of content".

Which again is what I would call the illogical assessment.

A game can have a lack of content well without experience every single nook and cranny, cause content thats unbelievably boring and infuriating is well and out of reach of what an MMO, or all games, are trying to achieve... being enjoyable. Therefor if you can roll with the logic train here a moment, expecting a player to experience content that is boring and unenjoyable to them is not the intended goal, therefor the content is null for said type of player, whoever they may be.

But thats all really besides the point as frankly none of it defends the fact once a week lockouts suck in every way and in the end hurt the "Casual" player base more then the hardcore because the further you lag behind the harder its going to be to catch up in the long run. Especially such with Item levels involved.

Anywho I know i might as well be yelling at a wall because no one on the internet changes their mind, but its fun.

[DreaMeer]

yo, i just came back to ffxi because i played too much ffxiv arr, my crew are all like "dang~ they more i play ffxiv arr the more i want to play ffxi.." but that's us, everyone is different.

i would like to suggest you try out other MMO, refresh yourself and see which one fit you the most cuz i know im not the only one who keep coming back to play ffxi.

Honestly i feel any other mmo are way too easy compare to ffxi. combat, crafting, mission questing etc. plus most nice players are in ffxi!! (you don need to be a female toon to be able to receive help lol)

[Alhanelem]

To expect a person to go out of their way to participate in content they actively distaste, like being a Healer, or leveling Crafts, or doing H.E.L.M activities just to have "more content" is the illogical assumption to me. Whether you like it or not, crafts and gathering is content. The point remains is that you're shooting down something you haven't even played when we aren't even 100% sure how it actually works, how fun it is what other things they havent mentioned, etc.

also, just because you are one of the minority to conquer all the content (that you're interested in) doesn't make it a bad game. I

TL;DR I don't think it's unreasonable to ask to wait-and-see and/or try it before shooting it down in a blazing ball of fire.



But thats all really besides the point as frankly none of it defends the fact once a week lockouts suck in every way and in the end hurt the "Casual" player base more then the hardcore because the further you lag behind the harder its going to be to catch up in the long run. Especially such with Item levels involved.again, FFXI had once-per-so-often lockouts too, nobody complained the way people are complaining now about it. Also, this doesn't hurt the casual playerbase because the casual playerbase isn't even affected by the lockout (Coil is hardly casual player content)

Let me ask you what's better: totally conquering all the content in a month and having nothing to do for 2-3 until they are able to produce more content, or have them put a time / looting restriction on content to ensure it takes some time for them to conquer it, thereby meaning they have more reason to play the entire time? This is the only reason lockouts exist in any MMO- to give them time to keep developing more stuff.
It is very common in other MMOs for hardcore players to beat everything quickly, unsub, beat everything in some other MMO, and resub after another patch comes out.



Anywho I know i might as well be yelling at a wall because no one on the internet changes their mind, but its fun. Something i fully agree with you on >.>

[Edyth]

Death Penalty nerf was announced. The massive power was a glitch.

Movement speed was increased in the update.

Bye.

[Alhanelem]

yo, i just came back to ffxi because i played too much ffxiv arr, my crew are all like "dang~ they more i play ffxiv arr the more i want to play ffxi.." but that's us, everyone is different.

i would like to suggest you try out other MMO, refresh yourself and see which one fit you the most cuz i know im not the only one who keep coming back to play ffxi.

Honestly i feel any other mmo are way too easy compare to ffxi. combat, crafting, mission questing etc. plus most nice players are in ffxi!! (you don need to be a female toon to be able to receive help lol)
FFXI is easy and has been for years, so I guess every other mmo is really, really easy then. Let me guess, you beat Twintania with a blindfold on?

Also it's character not toon, and in my personal experience the XIV community is mostly very nice (and what's this about having to be female to get help? I have never seen anything like that in either game...?)

[mattkoko]

FFXI is easy and has been for years, so I guess every other mmo is really, really easy then. Let me guess, you beat Twintania with a blindfold on?

Also it's character not toon, and in my personal experience the XIV community is mostly very nice (and what's this about having to be female to get help? I have never seen anything like that in either game...?)

Alhanelem, I made an observation that I just wanted to point out to you. You cry about people taking stabs at you, yet, you take a stab at everyone you don't agree with. If you cannot handle the fire, don't ignite the fuse.

[Alhanelem]

Alhanelem, I made an observation that I just wanted to point out to you. You cry about people taking stabs at you, yet, you take a stab at everyone you don't agree with. If you cannot handle the fire, don't ignite the fuse.
I didn't "cry" about anything- I'm not making personal attacks, like the "stabs" I was referring to. I can handle the fire just fine, thanks for your concern.

With the quote, I was trying to make a point: It's not fair criticism to call one game easy without playing its hard content, when you have in the other game you're mentioning.

[mattkoko]

I wasn't concerned. No one has made personal attacks at you either but you still consider them stabs. With your smart ass comments all over the place. Then you wonder why people fire back at you. Then you say you don't appreciate that when you did exactly the same thing. If you don't see that, reread your posts. I am not trying to start anything. Just trying to make you aware that what you accuse people of doing, you are just as guilty of.

[Karbuncle]

Whether you like it or not, crafts and gathering is content. The point remains is that you're shooting down something you haven't even played when we aren't even 100% sure how it actually works, how fun it is what other things they havent mentioned, etc.

I have goldsmithing to 50 and a second craft on its way... Here: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/3695673/

Regardless, I do like how you say "Rather you like it or not" when I already explained why thats a null point. I won't repeat it as its pretty pointless. But needless to say, I've got nothing to nice to say anymore so I won't be saying anything at all.

[Alhanelem]

Whatever, I'm being misunderstood, there's no point in continuing anyway.

[Byrth]

An inadvertent nerf to the Death Penalty was implemented. It was done without prior discussion, consultation or even presentation by either the devs or the community team.

Check out this link:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/38208-What-s-up-with-Gastraphetes-%28and-xbows-in-general%29?p=481644&viewfull=1#post481644

It is the official announcement of the incoming DP nerf before the update. You can read on and see the "Well, that was expected" quality of responses they got to the said announcement, because iLevel 119 Death Penalty had ridiculous DPS compared to every other ranged weapon in existence.

In summary, you played the game for years and are quitting because they fixed a very obvious mistake from the previous update (aka nerfed a weapon you don't even have yet). {That's interesting.}

[Elexia]

lol and you think 14 is any better with regards to botting

Oh man, I'd kill for XIV to be in the state of XI because then it would actually be LESS botting. So many people in so many FCs botting and getting kicked for it lately. Ps Bersty, they've yet to take care of the botting situation in XIV and RMT situation in XIV and XI is heaven in comparison. Good luck fighting with bots on the Market Board, all I can say.

They handled RMT and major botting in XI fine honestly, the most I see people even do these days is in stuff like Nyzul or speed boosting (you can't hide it.)

[Alhanelem]

Ps Bersty, they've yet to take care of the botting situation in XIV and RMT situation in XIV and XI is heaven in comparison. Good luck fighting with bots on the Market Board, all I can say.This is mostly because there is comparatively less money to be made in XI vs XIV. That said there has been a lot more banning recently and the problem isn't as bad as it used to be (It's still a problem of course, but not one that they can ever completely eliminate)

It does suck in any amount, no question about that though.

[Sfchakan]

Don't worry, FFXI will remain classier than this thread's OP.

If you wanted to move on to XIV, all you had to do is move on. There was no need to cry about an obvious mistake being corrected and making a scene.

[CaptainCrunch]

Lol jumping off one train wreck right onto another one.

[Infidi]

At least this train wreck is full of injured FF fans. ARR train wreck is full of injured WOW players lol.


:p
*Uses a Pheonix Down on Doom Train* Problem solved. :D

[Tohihroyu]

compared to how FFXI was the term cheating and botting. And the fact that I hardly ever even see bots anymore I'ma call shenanigans! who dares step forth to be the judge of this initiation?!


Lemme edit by saying SE has gone to great efforts to minimize the amount of cheating that has occured over the past decade in this game. they even made a task force that went about investigating everything. Adjustments so gil wasn't abused have consistantly taken place, fishing bots have ded down, RMT's messaging us practiclly zero.

Fishbotting died down? um.. No it hasn't-- there's always at least 24 or more in Beau fishboting-- "But Tohi most of them are MON! Stop blaming bots! take off the tinfoil hat bawww errbody dose it why can't you?" bullcrap, I went there as MON and the WHOLE seaside was swarmed with fish bots & fishbotters I maybe saw one other person running around as a monster, thats it. The only way fishbotting is gonna die down is if they make Goblin Bounty Hunters level 200+ and Agro fishing players who have been fishing far longer than any human player should. Sure they ended many an RMT activity but there is still fishbotters and non "Chinese gil farmer" RMT because most of the remaining players encourage RMT & botting, unlike years before if you MPK'd RMT or botters you where cheered on over it (if GM's caught you tho you still got in trouble.) now? don't you dare! or the wrath of the seven deadly sins and his many many other bots-- err I mean "mules" will be after you because you "ruined business":rolleyes:

[Alhanelem]

The best part about monstrosity should have been empowering players to kill fish bots. :D

they could find some way to detect fish botters and put the PvP flag on them and then we can all get on our behemoths and rocs and eat them. Who's with me?

[Castanica]

Someone that complains about cheaters and botters going to FFXIV? Well enjoy your time in FFXIV, because there are more botters and cheaters on FFXIV than you will ever see on this game. You can't throw a rock without hitting some botters on FFXIV, Square does very little to counter them either.

If you're bored of the game that is one thing but to use cheating when it's even more rampant on XIV is just silly.

[Bersty]

Don't worry, FFXI will remain classier than this thread's OP.

If you wanted to move on to XIV, all you had to do is move on. There was no need to cry about an obvious mistake being corrected and making a scene.

U mad bro?

I don't quite understand how your interpretation of my post being tearful in nature whatsoever. I stated it as one example (a recent one at that) where something was announced as a footnote without prior discussion with the player base. i.e. supporting my stance of recklessness. It's called having an objective opinion, nobody is handcuffing you to agree/disagree with it. Besides the facts, my mog house will always remain a haven of rich mahogany along with my leather bound books, thus remaining the epitome of class.

[Bersty]

If you're bored of the game that is one thing but to use cheating when it's even more rampant on XIV is just silly.

Boredom =/= Lack of things I find (personally) interesting.

I never implied the cheating was the reason for me cancelling my subscription; rather, an observation of the game's loss of integrity (due to the fact that people have the ability to do said things without any repercussion/punishment). Who, today, would actually be scared enough of repercussions to run through Port Jeuno at 700% movement speed?

[Zumi]

I reported the fish bots in glacier a couple times but they didn't get banned or anything so I just stopped caring about it.

[Sfchakan]

I stated it as one example (a recent one at that) where something was announced as a footnote without prior discussion with the player base. i.e. supporting my stance of recklessness.

They don't have to have a discussion with the player base to fix unintended issues, though. They also notified us prior to the update that it was going to be fixed. Byrth linked to the heads up (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/38208-What-s-up-with-Gastraphetes-%28and-xbows-in-general%29?p=481644&viewfull=1#post481644) earlier in this thread. If someone raced to build that weapon after it was boosted to an unintended height in power, then that sucks, but shows why someone shouldn't chase every bandwagon in an MMO.

However, I think yourself and most other owners of the weapon made it or decided to work on it prior to that point in time.

[Demonjustin]

Fishbotting died down? um.. No it hasn't-- there's always at least 24 or more in Beau fishboting-- "But Tohi most of them are MON! Stop blaming bots! take off the tinfoil hat bawww errbody dose it why can't you?" bullcrap, I went there as MON and the WHOLE seaside was swarmed with fish bots & fishbotters I maybe saw one other person running around as a monster, thats it. The only way fishbotting is gonna die down is if they make Goblin Bounty Hunters level 200+ and Agro fishing players who have been fishing far longer than any human player should. Sure they ended many an RMT activity but there is still fishbotters and non "Chinese gil farmer" RMT because most of the remaining players encourage RMT & botting, unlike years before if you MPK'd RMT or botters you where cheered on over it (if GM's caught you tho you still got in trouble.) now? don't you dare! or the wrath of the seven deadly sins and his many many other bots-- err I mean "mules" will be after you because you "ruined business":rolleyes:They need to just nerf fishing to hell till it makes 0 money via NPC then make new mage foods and meaningful foods which use fish as materials. Kill fish botting for money, because there are no other real options. The next best thing to do is make everyone always in Belligerency in that zone, so MON players can kill the bots, but then legit fishers suffer too, and you can't make it so they get that if they don't move long enough, people will just update their stuff to work around it. Its also important to note that many people who fish bot do not even seem to be RMTs anymore, just normal players who are to lazy to make money and wreck the economy for their own beneficial gain.


U mad bro?

I don't quite understand how your interpretation of my post being tearful in nature whatsoever. I stated it as one example (a recent one at that) where something was announced as a footnote without prior discussion with the player base. i.e. supporting my stance of recklessness.You want recklessness? Recklessness would have been them keeping a gun far above all other ranged weapons in terms of DPS because of an error. Recklessness would have been allowing an exception to a single weapon to make it massively stronger than others and then not changing anything. You're overreacting on something that was very likely done by accident and fixed, if your going to quit because of that, so long,


It's called having an objective opinionThats the exact opposite of what you seem to have actually.

An objective opinion is without bias, based on facts rather than personal feelings on the matter. The weapon was overpowered when compared to others of its class, thus, it should have been nerfed, that is my opinion, I have no benefit to gain from this outcome, nor do I have something to lose, its based off of fact, and so it is an objective opinion.

A subjective opinion is with bias, you have exhibited this I believe, from what I can tell your opinion is based on the fact you were working on it at the time and did not know the nerf was incoming, and thus when it happened, you got angry and are now quitting. There is a difference between an objective and subjective opinion, your exhibiting subjective from what I can tell, not an objective opinion as you claim.

[Trumpy]

Only problem with killin npc prices is you hurt legit people who farm this way without botting. This has happened tons of times already. Yea i know everyone says how easy gil is to come by these days but if its so worthless and plentiful please do send me alot. Please note i do not have fish leveled high enough to take advantage of these npcable fish, but ive seen this crap before, like when they killed demon weapons in castle Z a week after i finally got thf leveled high enough to farm there. Everything i have done for gil seems to get killed before i can make use of it lol, but thats just my luck.

[Demonjustin]

Only problem with killin npc prices is you hurt legit people who farm this way without botting. This has happened tons of times already. Yea i know everyone says how easy gil is to come by these days but if its so worthless and plentiful please do send me alot. Please note i do not have fish leveled high enough to take advantage of these npcable fish, but ive seen this crap before, like when they killed demon weapons in castle Z a week after i finally got thf leveled high enough to farm there. Everything i have done for gil seems to get killed before i can make use of it lol, but thats just my luck.I know it would hurt people, trust me, but the simple fact is there are far more people who abuse it than people who don't, and those who do this legitimately are still hurting the economy no different then when they nerfed Chocobo Blinkers, sure, we were all mad when it happened, and many blamed RMTs for it, but that view was short sighted for all of us because no one saw the harm it did to the economy, and with fishing its 10 times worse, sure, it does less damage because its not as widespread, but the fact that its not widespread is what makes it even worse, so few people are able to do it that it hurts so many more people as a result. At least with Blinkers, we all had the power, it was fast, easy, and available, but with fishing, its much more difficult to get into, especially legitimately. The thing is, thats why I said we need new crafts to use fishing, people who bot for money are unlikely to go all in with it when their entire profit relies on the AH and crafters than just NPCs, which I think is why it would work out much better and still keep some good profit in it for people who legitimately do it, I could be wrong though.

[Xantavia]

Too bad there can't be some kind of compromise when it comes to NPC prices. Say after selling 5 of the same item to a vendor, that item drops in resale value until the next Earth day. Let people bot until they are sitting on 200 fish but that is going to take 2 months to sell. Doesn't really hurt people who do it casually and would encourage people to diversify their sources of income.

[Demonjustin]

Thats really what I am saying with the AH basically, just through player market rather than via NPCs, NPCs are too easy to abuse and it would still create gil that way which is bad in large amounts either way.

[Trumpy]

I tried blinkers like maybe 2-3 times. It was boring and made me want to beat my skull against a wall. Each time i only did it cause i needed 1-400k gil for something. Ive never been rich. the most ive ever had was like 3-4 mil, which i never had long and i been playing since day one. But from what i gathered "Everyone" did it, prolly more legit people than RMTs and so much so that people claimed gil was worthless which i never understood cause they would never give me any if it was so worthless.

Now I have no idea how these things correlate though but, When you level certain crafts there is generally an item that you make big bang gil from making when you are really high level crafter. For fishing there arent so many craft items like that. maybe a few fish used for food but not many. As i understand it you need to put some work in it to fish what they npc in glacier? maybe ebisu? I am not sure at all. So maybe npc prices are set that way to make up for lack of a "big money item." Yea and i have heard the argument before that you dont spend nearly as much gil to level fishing to high levels. But gettin an ebisu isnt really cake is it? Please correct me if i am wrong bout the level of fish skill and rod to fish up what people npc for gils there.

[Demonjustin]

Well the thing is, almost every single one I have ever seen fish, both fish gil via botting, and skilled to get there via botting, as well as got their Ebisu via the same thing.

Crafting sucks up a ton of money, fishing hardly any by compare, and crafting is faster to skill than fishing, most people who craft likely also bot, but its not as noticeable, and crafting does not create gil, it creates items from other items which are then put in circulation through the market, and the creator gets gil from someone else who already had it, whereas NPCing fish creates gil from nothing.

Blinkers did this same thing with gil being created which is the only reason I brought it up, people literally created gil from air by NPCing a massive amount of things for a massive amount of gil.

But, for the difficulty, you are right so far as I know, the fish does need high skill and such, the only thing is that I still don't count that for much when considering that most people who fish bot the rod, skill, and their gil all the same, since so far as I know it all comes from fishing in the end.