Pet Jobs and iLevel: 113 vs 119

[Zhronne]

I was wondering what are the dev plans concerning this.
Currently pet jobs (I'll leave DRG out of this for a while, since pet for DRG has a much smaller relevance than it has for the other pet jobs) can get their pets up to iLevel 113, whereas in the majority of other slots, especially weapon one, you can equip gear up to level 119.
Why is that? Why does our pet have to be lower level than us?

There are a few exceptions to this:
SMNs can get it to 115 if they have the 119 version of the Mythic weapon "Nirvana"
BST can get it higher with the right amount of merits, augmented AF2+2 hands and using some specific pets (which aren't particularly strong or practical to use atm)



When is this situation going to change? Can we expect new ranged items for SMN and PUP soon?

[FaeQueenCory]

iirc, the delve jug pets cap at 115, just the same as a 119 Nirvana+dashavatara sachet SMN's avatars.

And also iirc, Matsui has mentioned looking into removing all level limits for pets (avatars, wyverns, and automatons don't have the same "i can only go to X level" that BST pets do).
But it was just a tertiary thing when he said it... so unless he's just remaining silent... don't expect anything higher than a 115 pet for a good while now.

(and BST should really be happy about how friggen easy it is to get a 115 pet... SMN has to WORK just to get that 115... and poor PUPs... their Automatons are still stuck at 113!!)

[dasva]

I disagree. There are only 4 pets we have that can even get that high and they are all kinda mediocre. smns should be happy that all their pets go to 115 or waste merits. I'd give anything to just have all jugs be 113 with just a peice of delve gear without hands or merits or augment or having to chose crap pets with low availability and then only get to 115 with mythic or relic or whatever. And I don't ever even plan on making an Aymur. Ah who cares about the ilvl of the pets anymore. 113 avatars can do more dmg in a single bp than the total dmg any jug can do over the course of 3 minutes

[FaeQueenCory]

Yes. Because Nirvanas just fall from the sky and require no work whatsoever to do... and getting merits? Oh lordy is that hard! It sure does take years getting all those merits up to their maximum amount.

And you are totally right. A random fish or cricket should CLEARLY be able to out damage the living embodiment of an elemental force of the universe... of course rabbits should out damage gods. I mean... what kind of world would this be where gods are doing more damage than the random fauna of the universe.

And what's this about Avatars requiring MP to use these abilities? why... MP is infinite right? It's not like the only limit on said damaging abilities is a simple timer...

[dasva]

Edit: ya know what I had some serious responses to that burst of patronizing sarcasm that made little to no sense but then I realized you must be joking and trolling me. Good job you almost got me. I shall completely agree with you in that avatars should be gods among pets making all others cower in fear and shame and that there bps shouldn't cost mp because heaven forbid they use refresh gear.

[dasva]

When is this situation going to change? Can we expect new ranged items for SMN and PUP soon?
This will most likely change when the next stage of delve comes out. Though when that will be idk. Kinda figured it would have happened decently before now considering until this most recent update it made it so only a few jobs could get ilvl 119 weapons while others couldn't. Though given lack of other options like 115 or crafted 117 items this leaves pet jobs kinda in the cold. Though altenator is kinda awesome anyways. Maybe they will come out when they release new jugs like they said they would to deal with the jug problem. But might be awhile right now they seem more concerned with creating sidegrades or step stones to the 119 gear for the jobs that already have it than remembering the jobs they left behind

[Rwolf]

+1'd to the OP. I definitely agree on this. If they are making it so that R/M/E will now upgrade to the highest possible item level as new gear is continually released. I personally believe the same effort should be extended to pet jobs in general. In order to easily have pet variety and balance at level 119 or whatever the new item level cap is at the time. If not a direct drop from somewhere then make it crafted with Delve materials. I'd be all for a 119 satchet, animator and more beastmaster pets given a higher cap. Regarding SMN, given how difficult a 119 Nirvana is to create, I don't see why SMN shouldn't have a 119 satchet and Nirvana push the avatar to 121. If any major retaliation from other pet jobs, make Aymur and Kenkonken do the same thing for pet levels.

SMN can do some nice spike damage with Astral Conduit but seriously about the only thing SMN is desirable for in current content in Wildskeeper Reives and that's already overrun with overkill. While you're at it, fix avatar melee damage. It's weird having a 113 avatar where I can deal more consistent melee damage with a lower level staff than my avatar.

[Camiie]

I disagree. There are only 4 pets we have that can even get that high and they are all kinda mediocre. smns should be happy that all their pets go to 115 or waste merits. I'd give anything to just have all jugs be 113 with just a peice of delve gear without hands or merits or augment or having to chose crap pets with low availability and then only get to 115 with mythic or relic or whatever. And I don't ever even plan on making an Aymur. Ah who cares about the ilvl of the pets anymore. 113 avatars can do more dmg in a single bp than the total dmg any jug can do over the course of 3 minutes

I'm not sure we should really take Mythic into account when we talk about what a job is capable of. Mythic, by it's nature, isn't a realistic goal for most people and should do something exceptional for those who are able to obtain it.

[Olor]

Yeah, can you please make some cheaper jug pets that are useable in current content? It's really garbage to have to spend 30K or so a pop for a sort of okay pet with universally crappy ready moves.

I MEAN O WOW, SCISSORLEGS DID 150 DAMAGE AND IT WAS AOE. THAT IS BOSS.

(not)

[Zhronne]

I disagree.
With what exactely do you disagree D:


There are only 4 pets we have that can even get that high and they are all kinda mediocre.
Exactely, and the system in itself is pretty convoluted.


smns should be happy that all their pets go to 115
I'm sure the 4 people in the world with ilevel 119 Nirvana will be very happy.
Talking about "The SMNs" intending the whole category is a bit too much though :p


113 avatars can do more dmg in a single bp than the total dmg any jug can do over the course of 3 minutes
Not sure this is a good way to compare things.
Different fights require different stuff of course, but BST can still deal a quite large amount of damage himself, whereas the same cannot be said for SMN which has to rely 100% on their pets. BST can choose to, but it's just an option for them.
Also, with the 45sec cap I feel SMN has still other things to be troubled about.


Either way, this is all a bit out of topic. The main concern of my thread is the general initial question about what do Devs intend to do to make pets scale up as content raise up and as player ilevel goes up?
In my own view the pet level, no matter how it is achieved, should be the same as the player. Or if we want to talk about a difference, it should be small. 119-113 sounds a bit too much of a difference to me.

[Zhronne]

This will most likely change when the next stage of delve comes out.
I was expecting 3 new Delve areas for december patch, since now we finally have 3 new Naakuals that should convert well into 3 new fractures.
But not I'm not so sure anymore...

And about the new jugs, I won't be unhappy to get em but they should do something else about the old jugs. Either they release a new one with TH or I'll still be forced to use Falcorr.
They could double the amount of levels you get through Beast Affinity or I dunno, change how the whole system works for BST and make it simpler, less convoluted, with less exceptions etc.
Alternator is still kinda awesome but you can clearly see it's falling behind compared to how it did when it was first released.
It's till awesome, but I'm concerned for the future.

[dasva]

Yeah I think we all expected more delve before now but they are on the filling in content between 99 and delve stuff since the jump was too big and probably overdoing it.

Honestly I'm still waiting for the pet th gear they promised when they lowered the th on falcoor by 2.... that said yeah it could use to be a whole lot less convoluted. I doubt it wouldn't be hard to either just make the mobs cap at whatever your mainhand weapon is or to just raise the cap a whole bunch higher like how they used to be. You'd get them at a certain level but they would naturally cap way higher.

As far as falling behind I think all the pets are in the same boat. I'm afraid ilvling pets up will be there last thougth just like it was way after players litterally doubled there dps before they addressed that all pets couldn't even hit anything let alone deal dmg lol

[Demon6324236]

The issue is they went from 106 to 119 in 1 update, then started filling the gaps while a great deal of players are sitting at 119 just waiting. After this update, it will get worse, RF+1 being at 119 will make even less future gear matter unless its at 119 or above too, which really means if they keep filling gaps, we will have nothing to look forward to in those updates. Such as now, adding Bayld+1 gear meant nothing to me, I had no use for that gear anyways anymore, and so on.

[Okipuit]

Greetings,

We have plans to add new item level 119 summoner ammo slot equipment and animators! Not only that, we'll also be adding pets with a base level cap of 119. Hang tight, we'll release more information on this as we receive it!

[Demon6324236]

Greetings,

We have plans to add new item level 119 summoner ammo slot equipment and animators! Not only that, we'll also be adding pets with a base level cap of 119. Hang tight, we'll release more information on this as we receive it!Will do Okipuit! Great to hear your working on it. In the mean time, please check out my thread for RDM! :D

[Cett]

Greetings,

We have plans to add new item level 119 summoner ammo slot equipment and animators! Not only that, we'll also be adding pets with a base level cap of 119. Hang tight, we'll release more information on this as we receive it!

Is this implying, december's update or a future update? :o

[dasva]

December update

[FaeQueenCory]

December update
Perhaps I just can't find it... but I've looked multiple times... and there is 0 mention of any animator or SMN item....
Just BST pet adjustments.

[Demon6324236]

They said new items, didn't specify SMN or PUP but one can hope they are somewhere in there since BST was mentioned as well.

[FaeQueenCory]

Hopefully.
It IS just a preliminary gist of the update...

But you'd think that sort of thing would be a note with the 119AF1 and "new BST pets"...

[Demon6324236]

Not so sure, the BST update also includes charm adjustments and more BST pets in general, not new Avatars or new Automatons, so they may just not include it for that reason, who knows.

[Metalgod]

Made some posts on the Summoner area:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22868-Whatever-happened-to-Cait-Sith-and-Atomos

Who knows when they will let us know the status of the new summons. However I'm glad they will be giving us new items to increase pet lvls accross the board to lvl 119. Wonder what pets BST going to get??

[Zhronne]

Hope among the new pets there will be a TH pet, because otherwise I'll still be forced to use Falcorr >.>

[Olor]

Greetings,

We have plans to add new item level 119 summoner ammo slot equipment and animators! Not only that, we'll also be adding pets with a base level cap of 119. Hang tight, we'll release more information on this as we receive it!

Can you tell us whether some of those BST pets will not cost an arm and a leg? Can we have something made with really affordable materials so I don't have to pour all my gil down the drain every time I want to play BST?

[dasva]

Perhaps I just can't find it... but I've looked multiple times... and there is 0 mention of any animator or SMN item....
Just BST pet adjustments.

I thought I saw it but now I can't

[FaeQueenCory]

Can you tell us whether some of those BST pets will not cost an arm and a leg? Can we have something made with really affordable materials so I don't have to pour all my gil down the drain every time I want to play BST?
WHAT?????
YOU DON"T HAVE 200K PLASM TO DROP ON THESE ITEMS THAT YOU USE UP CONSTANTLY JUST LIKE AMMO!?
[/sarcam]

For reals.
I think the idea behind the 119 plasm pet for bst is that they are "the same as" the 119 weapons... so a stack of 99 is 198k...
Though why the ammo is so dirt cheap, (10 plasm and 300 plasm iirc... both net you a stack of 99 for less than the cost of a 113 weapon) I have no clue...

I do not play BST.... but I can see how constantly buying the pets with plasm is redic. (cause.... let's face it.... 90% sure the new ones will be plasm pets... that 10% is uncertainty about being crafted only.)
Especially when smn, drg, and pup don't have a money cost in their upkeeps. (they all have their limiting drawbacks: smn=MP+BP cost, pup = frame and attachment limits, and drg = fragility)
And while I feel that 10 or 300 plasm is a bit on the small side.... 2000 plasm is just redic.
They should really lower it to like... 500? 1k at the very least.

[dasva]

Unless the pets are rediculously good I don't see anyone that doesn't just happen to have a lot of plasm spending more than 500 each. I mean even if you assume the plasm you are farming are full 1-5+ boss runs of just under 70k plasm and total time spent on them is only an hour between gather explain etc and no failures that's about 140 jugs an hour best case scenario. It's not that hard to make a million gil an hour so opportunity wise that's over 7k gil a pet basically while everything besides the new ones with really rare ingredients are like 1/4 that. And then for everyone else who isn't getting into full delve clears quick in and out all the time the proportions get even more off.

Really given how much they die and have to be resmned and how much recycle rng gets they shouldn't be much more than the ammo is.

[Umichi]

WHAT?????
YOU DON"T HAVE 200K PLASM TO DROP ON THESE ITEMS THAT YOU USE UP CONSTANTLY JUST LIKE AMMO!?
[/sarcam]

For reals.
I think the idea behind the 119 plasm pet for bst is that they are "the same as" the 119 weapons... so a stack of 99 is 198k...
Though why the ammo is so dirt cheap, (10 plasm and 300 plasm iirc... both net you a stack of 99 for less than the cost of a 113 weapon) I have no clue...

I do not play BST.... but I can see how constantly buying the pets with plasm is redic. (cause.... let's face it.... 90% sure the new ones will be plasm pets... that 10% is uncertainty about being crafted only.)
Especially when smn, drg, and pup don't have a money cost in their upkeeps. (they all have their limiting drawbacks: smn=MP+BP cost, pup = frame and attachment limits, and drg = fragility)
And while I feel that 10 or 300 plasm is a bit on the small side.... 2000 plasm is just redic.
They should really lower it to like... 500? 1k at the very least.

Don't forget about time for a drg pet. and fragility is iffy