R/M/E 99 to 119 upgrade info and findings

[Zumi]

Relics take 300x Pluton
Mythic take 300x Chunk of Beitetsu
Empyreans take 300x Riftborn Boulder

I killed several delve NMs so far
Tax'et, Kurma, Mata, Raptor, all droped 1 item. Got lucky on Supernal Chapuli he dropped a case which had 3. This is going to be one long grind. Since its loot pooled it may be worse then plates.

What I got out of it is that delve NMs drop 1 item or a rare chance to drop a case which has multiple. We will have to see what new BCNMs drop since nobody has seals yet.

[FaeQueenCory]

I killed several delve NMs so far
Tax'et, Kurma, Mata, Raptor, all droped 1 item. Got lucky on Supernal Chapuli he dropped a case which had 3. This is going to be one long grind. Since its loot pooled it may be worse then plates.
>_>
REALLY?
Just after learning about the BCNM alternative.......
300?
<_<
At like 1-3/NM...
This... is not fun...

Not that I wish bad things on you Zumi....
But I really hope you just had REALLY bad drops....
Cause... 300 is... a lot to grind...

And if your drops are the norm...
Are these at least sellable?? Have to check that out from the .dat mining...
That could cut down on the grind.... sorta... but not really... HMP were still 100k on Odin... even with REMs being crap.

The more I learn about the REM and AF1 upgrade... the more and harder I wonder why couldn't this just have been translurry KI trades?

[Zumi]

They are sellable yes. These will prob go for 1m+ at first.

But as I have seen now each delve NM drops 1 item with a rare chance at a case which has the ability to give you more then 1.

We got the mythic one a few times which nobody needed because we all had empyrean or relics that we were upgrading. I am guessing if you have a mythic you prob can pick up your items for cheap due to people trying to get items for the more popular relics/empyreans.

[FaeQueenCory]

Even the MegaBosses??
I'd think they drop larger "bags"...
But...
:(

[Zumi]

Even the MegaBosses??
I'd think they drop larger "bags"...
But...
:(

Yes there are boxes as well but there isn't enough people on to do a boss, so I don't know if bosses drop boxes or how many is in a box.

Box > case > single

[FaeQueenCory]

Yes there are boxes as well but there isn't enough people on to do a boss, so I don't know if bosses drop boxes or how many is in a box.

Box > case > single
D:
It's HMP/riftdross/VW all over again...
But worse because Delve.

VW having low drop rates was only tollerable because there wasn't a pool of rewards...
This is basically VW but everyone can lot the upgrade items.

EDIT: Delve brings out the douchiness in ppl... dear GOD this only will make that worse.

EDIT AGIAN: Thank you, Zumi, for posting this. :)

EDIT3: Maybe.... Maybe they'll immediately add/already added a plasm redemption for these... (if it's already; no one has noticed yet) Because that was really the only good thing Delve has done: have an alternative to the low drop rates that the NMs have...

[Zumi]

D:
It's HMP/riftdross/VW all over again...
But worse because Delve.

VW having low drop rates was only tollerable because there wasn't a pool of rewards...
This is basically VW but everyone can lot the upgrade items.

EDIT: Delve brings out the douchiness in ppl... dear GOD this only will make that worse.

EDIT AGIAN: Thank you, Zumi, for posting this. :)

Yea in a way its worse then plates because VW had your own personal pool you could do whatever you wanted with your plates/pouch. But now you join a group to kill a delve NM or boss you have to out lot all the other people in case of a boss that's 17 people.

[FaeQueenCory]

Yea in a way its worse then plates because VW had your own personal pool you could do whatever you wanted with your plates/pouch. But now you join a group to kill a delve NM or boss you have to out lot all the other people in case of a boss that's 17 people.
It was already worse requiring 300 and dropping only 1...
Adding that you might not even get that one that dropped...

It's like they combined the two things ppl hate about Delve and VW: ppl being dicks and incredibly low droprates...
Who wants to play the new delve?? >_>

[Kincard]

So in addition to the 100-(formerly)600M+ I had spent on an RME weapon before, I now have to gather 300 new items to dump into it just for the Adoulin upgrade when it takes me like an hour to poke Tojil/etc until he puts out, or buy a weapon of nearly the same strength off the AH for like ~5M?

They sure know how to destroy any good will they may have had. People wanted their weapons to be imported, they didn't want the quest quality imported too SE.

[Demonviper]

Good going SE. I can only assume you lads are millipedes, because you always seem to have another shoe to drop. Just when we think it can't get any worse, you always find a way to put the boot into us yet again.

[MarkovChain]

I had a case of boulders drop 9 boulders from eft NM. Anyone got cases of plutons ?

[Zumi]

from BG

Just did a run in Morimar

Shimmering Tarichuk - Pluton Case (11)
Perdurable Raptor - Beitetsu (1)
Volatile Matamata - Riftborn Boulder (1)
Tutewehiwehi - Beitetsu (1)
Kurma - Pluton (1)
Tojil - Pluton (1)

Guessing cases can drop up to 15 like the plate bags. But yea this is going to cost a lot of gil.

[Zumi]

I had a case of boulders drop 9 boulders from eft NM. Anyone got cases of plutons ?

6 maned a zone only case I seen so far is the empyrean one.

[FaeQueenCory]

So in addition to the 100-(formerly)600M+ I had spent on an RME weapon before, I now have to gather 300 new items to dump into it just for the Adoulin upgrade when it takes me like an hour to poke Tojil/etc until he puts out, or buy a weapon of nearly the same strength off the AH for like ~5M?

They sure know how to destroy any good will they may have had. People wanted their weapons to be imported, they didn't want the quest quality imported too SE.
Hey! It's totes NOT a magian trial yo!
It's totes differnt!
COMPLETELY differnt!
ENTIRELY EXACTLY DIFFERNT!

"hey you liked all those trials didn't you?"
"isn't that why you wanted to upgrade them?"

And ppl want the game to go beyond 119.....
I really pray that they don't now.

This was probably the absolute worse way to 119 the REMs....
No wait.
It's not the worst.
It could have said 3000 items.

Now I'm afraid to ask what it takes to "+2" the AF1 sets...

[Twille]

My understanding of upgrading AF is that you'll need items dropped by the new BCNM for 20 Kindred Crests. Winning the BCNM is a 100% drop of the item for each member of the party. The number of said item will vary from 1 to 4, depending on the difficulty selected. The only part i'm not sure of is how many of these items it will take per upgrade and whether items are job specific or not.

[Damane]

the RME upgrade is plain dumb... unless the KCNM drop thousands of them this isnt gonna happen... Like seriously there is a large playerbase with completed multiple 99 relics, some 99 empys and a few 99 mythics. This system isnt gonna work for any of them. God shits retarded... back to 05 where you need to enslave people or outlot them.

[FaeQueenCory]

My understanding of upgrading AF is that you'll need items dropped by the new BCNM for 20 Kindred Crests. Winning the BCNM is a 100% drop of the item for each member of the party. The number of said item will vary from 1 to 4, depending on the difficulty selected. The only part i'm not sure of is how many of these items it will take per upgrade and whether items are job specific or not.
That's all I got too.
I pray to GOD that it's not like Limbus+1ification... cause... that just blows.

Judging from the items identified currently from .dat mining...
There's some stuff that looks like Airlixers... No clue what it does... but there's 3 vairants (NQ, +1 and +2)...
And then there's some Rem's memoirs that stack to 99 like the REM update items....
I pray that it's the 880CE Goblin Soup... Ra-Ex... One item stack...

But it's probably X00 of those memoirs...
Cause they stack to 99.
Are exclusive.
And there's 5 variants.

I'm calling chapter 1 = head, cp2 = body, cp3 = hands, cp4 = legs, and cp5 = feet.
Why? because that's the staggering of gear... and 1-5 matches the slots....
REALLY hope my pattern recognition is wrongs... because... omg... that's horrible... Ex: "I need Xjob head... BCNM only drops feet 'seals'"
REALLY hope these exclusive items that stack to 99 that comes in 5 variants... has nothing to do with 109AF...
Then again it might be only as bad as empy seal farming... (only worse because of random drops) Do the abyssea seals stack to 99? Never gotten more than 10 of a kind...

EDIT: Login campaign 5:
500pt category: Moogle Kupon A

Moogle Kupon A: recieve X00 amount of appropriate Rem memoirs for an appropriate job's single piece of gear for upgrading Artifact Armor.
Just wait.

[Dragoy]

My understanding of upgrading AF is that you'll need items dropped by the new BCNM for 20 Kindred Crests.

Sacred Kindred's Crests.


The only part i'm not sure of is how many of these items it will take per upgrade and whether items are job specific or not.

Something like 5 I think it was, but I can remember very wrong; took a very quick peek but too tired to really register all of it (Monisette in Port Jeuno at (I-8) can tell you more accurately).


Do the abyssea seals stack to 99? Never gotten more than 10 of a kind...

Stacks of 12.

[Zumi]

Farming ADL which is an easy trio now even possible to duo with higher risk and buying the 300 items out of bazzars probably became the fastest way to do this.

[FaeQueenCory]

Something like 5 I think it was, but I can remember very wrong; took a very quick peek but too tired to really register all of it (Monisette in Port Jeuno at (I-8) can tell you more accurately).


Bluh!
You confirmed that it's the memoirs...
But don't mention how many of each you need...

Best case: you need #1-5 per piece of 109ification...
What I'm expecting: X of #Y for Z piece...

[Dragoy]

Click reply...
Your quote is all that's there...
*highly confused*

In response to your previous talk about that NPC...
Bluh!
You confirmed that it's the memoirs...
But didn't mention how many of each you need...

Best case: you need #1-5 per piece of 109ification...
What I'm expecting: X of #Y for each piece...

Yeah, I completely deleted everything else when adding your quote via an edit!

The rest is back now, too.

I'm pretty sure it was 5 per piece, and at least some jobs share the item (for example Ninja and Samurai). Again, don't take that as a 100% thing as I didn't check them all and not very carefully... need sleep... like now!

[Dalach]

Hello i am new here. But i have a ? Is ne1 having troubles that won a mythic in the Mog bona trying to upgrade it but CS won't take place. Is there something i am doing wrong i have all the requirements on it.

[FaeQueenCory]

Yeah, I completely deleted everything else when adding your quote via an edit!

The rest is back now, too.

I'm pretty sure it was 5 per piece, and at least some jobs share the item (for example Ninja and Samurai). Again, don't take that as a 100% thing as I didn't check them all and not very carefully... need sleep... like now!
LoL Of course.
My suppositions were just pattern recognition... which isn't always true...
But let's hope that the AF is get a set of #1, #2, #3, #4, and #5... and then you have a new piece...

What would be... just... ungodly wonderful.....
Set of memoirs 1-5, AF1 set, you get the full AF1 109ified.

Buuuuut... that'll never happen... not unless it works similar to ABCs...
Chances are it'll be 1-5, 1 AF1 piece = 1 109AF1 piece.
Not so bad...

Unless you have really bad random drop luck...

Of which I really do...
:(

EDIT:
Hello i am new here. But i have a ? Is ne1 having troubles that won a mythic in the Mog bona trying to upgrade it but CS won't take place. Is there something i am doing wrong i have all the requirements on it.
You need the CS...
So... you have to have made at least one mythic legitimately... in order to flag the quest for them... lemme get that from the main thread.

Prerequisites
Players must be in possession of a relic, mythic, or empyrean weapon only equippable by level 99 characters.
Players must either be in possession of either the detached stinger, flame-scarred skull. or craggy fin key items; or have cleared the “difficult” or “very difficult” version of one of the battlefields for which a macrocosmic orb is required for entry.
* For mythic weapons, players must have viewed the associated event that comes with acquiring them.
You might even need to see the CS for that specific mythic... they're basically all the same CS... but who knows with this game's flags...
Worse case, you now have the joy of making a 75 version of your 99 mythic...
Best: you now have to make a 75 of any random mythic... my suggestion: make a yagrush... a 75 is good enough for use. YäY magery not requiring 119 everything.

[Dalach]

Well if that is the case how is that fair. here take this win on a mythic but we wont' let you make it mega boss so its useless good job btw at winning.

[Dragoy]

Oh and having a +1 artifact piece will have lower requirements than a not-yet-upgraded one (I think the 5 items being the lower; 10 for the other, but I could remember wrong). Should be clear by tomorrow (or later today my time).

As for the NPC regarding mythics etc., they are having some known issues as well (there is no response to trading a weapon in) so there's that, too.

[FaeQueenCory]

Well if that is the case how is that fair. here take this win on a mythic but we wont' let you make it mega boss so its useless good job btw at winning.
I'm betting it was an "oversight"...
Though why they made that flag in the first place... instead of just a gear check like the flag for +1ing AF and relic gear...

These are the ppl who thought making the REMs worthless in the first place was no big deal.

If you never are able to 119ify your Mythic... I'm sorry... :(
At this point... I'm expecting another update tomorrow...
"patching" the requirements for all these janky updates.


Oh and having a +1 artifact piece will have lower requirements than a not-yet-upgraded one (I think the 5 items being the lower; 10 for the other, but I could remember wrong). Should be clear by tomorrow (or later today my time).

As for the NPC regarding mythics etc., they are having some known issues as well (there is no response to trading a weapon in) so there's that, too.
Well thank god they accounted for that at least...
I was wondering if the AF1+1s could be used... or if one would have to reacquire the base AF1 set...
It now sounds like Abyssea seals...
Which blows... so much...
I'm never gonna get an convoker's horn at that rate... not unless the "5 drop" versions Oops... 4 drop versions... there goes my hope for "very difficult" = a guaranteed drop set of #1-5.

[MarkovChain]

the RME upgrade is plain dumb... unless the KCNM drop thousands of them this isnt gonna happen... Like seriously there is a large playerbase with completed multiple 99 relics, some 99 empys and a few 99 mythics. This system isnt gonna work for any of them. God shits retarded... back to 05 where you need to enslave people or outlot them.
1) farm ADL
2) buy pluton
3) win

These are extremely easily farmed, so the market will be flooded soon. I predict 50k per or 30M for an upgrade which is not a lot of money for RME99 owners.

Killed 14 NMs and got ~50 stones total, it's not bad (that's 3 fracture runs in a 6 manparty).

[Monchat]

the RME upgrade is plain dumb... unless the KCNM drop thousands of them this isnt gonna happen... Like seriously there is a large playerbase with completed multiple 99 relics, some 99 empys and a few 99 mythics. This system isnt gonna work for any of them. God shits retarded... back to 05 where you need to enslave people or outlot them.

stop playing MMOs... grind in MMOs? really?

anyone that has a lv 99 R/M/E is by definition a hardcore. Buying 300 stones from bazaars is nothing if you completed the lv l 90+ trials. From the look of it the stones are 100% drop rate and will sell same-ish as Heavy metal from voidwatch, with the additional bonus that many NMs are killable with a whm mule, o if you dont want to buy from bazaar you still have the option to slowly advance in your trial on your own.

[FaeQueenCory]

1) farm ADL
2) by pluton
3) win

These are extremely easily farmed, so the market will be flooded soon. I predict 50k per or 300k for an upgrade which is not a lot of money for RME99 owners.
Not if they farmed those 99s with 2-3 friends...

Expect to see more RMTing... Cause... that's what ppl will fall back to. Ex: "arhg! This is gonna take 3yrs to get 300 of these stupid things! ... might as well just buy them." That's what causes RMT to happen.
Making them sellable is good and all...
But this kinda makes that conspiracy theory that that certain RMT company is actually Square in disguise.... seem a little suspiciously valid...
Cause you know they know that ppl are gonna resort to that...

And then you also have to factor in the fact that fracture runs cost gil to start...

So farming them up also starts to be a strain on ppl's wallets too...

At least there's the "bonus" of the fact that if you're trying to get the mythic items... and you get nothing but relic and empy drops... you can sell those and then buy the mythic drops....

YäY?

EDIT:

stop playing MMOs... grind in MMOs? really?

anyone that has a lv 99 R/M/E is by definition a hardcore. Buying 300 stones from bazaars is nothing if you completed the lv l 90+ trials. From the look of it the stones are 100% drop rate and will sell same-ish as Heavy metal from voidwatch, with the additional bonus that many NMs are killable with a whm mule, o if you dont want to buy from bazaar you still have the option to slowly advance in your trial on your own.
I think it's more the level of grind that is what upset her(? your pic is a girl, you is a girl).
Which I can definitely understand...
I mean...
Dear God Alexandrite.
Especially because.. again... how much does it take to get an oats?
A bunch of REM owners left because they got invalidated... and having the "totes not a magian trial" magian trial iLvficate the REMs...
Even more so when Delve is almost required... we'll have to see about the drops in those BCNMs...
I can understand why someone would be displeased in that.
At least it's no 3000 stuffs.

[Ravenmore]

LOL. People were complaining there wasn't any time sinks left and now they got some. This is the old game people said they missed and wanted back.

[FaeQueenCory]

LOL. People were complaining there wasn't any time sinks left and now they got some. This is the old game people said they missed and wanted back.
LOL
Yeah.....

Sorta anyways...
I think ppl miss the vaired stuff you could do at "endgame" to grind... Go grind in abyssea, go grind in dynamis, grind some VW, grind some Limbus, grind some Alexandrite...
Even with the alternative to Delve, that 99HQ-BCNM thing, it's still "go-do-delve-go-do-delve!"

But this is VERY much "be careful what you wish for"...
Especially because this "totes is NOT a magian trial"... cause "we'll not do that again"... LOL

EDIT: Also... Remember when they "updated" the skirmish gear? 105 and janky after like a week... and then they added a KI to trade with the item to 113ify it?
I think a bunch of ppl were expecting an upgrade of that sort...
(I also think a bit of the gypped feeling is from that too... a "why is your crap adoulin gear easier to raise it's iLv than this gear I worked my butt off to get to 99"... just more of the sentiment that Adoulin has created: do less work, get better gear.)

[Aeron]

im in the same boat man.

[Zumi]

Would be nice if you could at least buy the upgrade items with plasm, we spammed nothing but delve for past 7 months, now we have to do it more for relics. Lots of us have several 99 relics and empyreans.

[Zumi]

http://i.imgur.com/UAGluk3.jpg

Tested out one of the new seal bcnm, we got 1 drop. Not worth it taking into account how long it takes to farm that many seals but we did unlock hard modes now for that BCNM, maybe those drop more.

[Luscia]

I am rather disappointed in this. We have waited so long for this update so we may be able to wield our beloved weapons again and THIS is what we have to do?! Look SE, I understand grinding, but making it so we need 300 of these things is beyond stupid. Why? Because the drops from what I have seen are random; you need a relic upgrade, but you get ones for mythic. This also isn't VW, we don't have our own treasure pool; so with what little people we have left on our servers you have probably over half of them competing for these items, not to mention they probably have more than one of these weapons to upgrade. Also by the description in the update notes it just says that we would need the KIs from the Delve Megaboss; hearing that it implies that they could be bought via plasm. I wish that was the case; I would have np buying them with plasm.

[Zumi]

All dual boxers are hogging all the low man NMs, Chapuli, Mata, Raptor.

Trading to the ??? for Chapuli the new Dragon's Aery.

[cyric]

Got a riftboulder case from Yumcax, had 12 boulders inside. (edited box to case, didn't realize there were different ones and pretty sure it was a case, not a box) I just said box because I forgot which.

[detlef]

Got a riftboulder box from Yumcax, had 12 boulders inside.That's very interesting... Here's hoping that WKR picks up again. This would be great if the entire player population can have a chance at obtaining these items so they can make some money.

[MarkovChain]

Got a riftboulder box from Yumcax, had 12 boulders inside.

Was it a box or a case, because the cases I got dropped betweeen 4 and 15. Also you are all crying like babies, is this the new BG ? This update is cool because it gives stuff to do at the pace you want.

[Mefuki]

This would be great if the entire player population can have a chance at obtaining these items so they can make some money.

Wait, you can sell the REM upgrade materials? Oh. So, why's everyone complaining? We wanted something for hardcores to work toward instead of just sitting around AFK, people were complaining about there being nothing to do just last week. This and the AF upgrades have give the game two boosts that it needed. 1) We now have our REMs back, possibly even giving us that "elite Gear" feeling people have been missing depending on long it takes to upgrade (You know how a lot of people have been complaining about how everyone has Oat and there's no gear that you feel sentimental toward?) and 2) Gil actually serves a function again which has been a nagging problem for some time so I hear.

As far as the "But I have SO many REM's" or the "There are too many REMs that need upgrading" argument goes, I assume this was intentional on SE's part. Now there's a greater way of showing everyone your devotion to a job via these continuous upgrades. Are you upgrade all your REM's maybe not but your "Main Job"'s? Yeah, you might. So, maybe I'm missing something but all in all, it doesn't seem that bad.

[Demonviper]

Stuff
Because this was a prime chance to have nice equipment that didn't come from delve, some people like me don't want to do delve and the majority of people who did like delve are already well and truely sick of grinding it anyway.

But no, go do delve says the man in japan. Relic/empy/mythic 99 holders already feel they've done their grinding. The weapons already take far more time and effort to complete than delve weapons for aprox. parity, if we're going to go grind delve anyway, why would we spent 10 times as long upgrading our R/M/E weapon when we'd likely have the delve weapon for that class in a fraction of the time? Why would anyone make a new R/M/E from scratch, knowing that they'll have to do delve anyway in the end? why wouldn't they just do delve first, save themselves some time and simply get a delve weapon instead?

Basically, this was a huge kick in the teeth to anyone who made a R/M/E, would consider making a R/M/E or simply wants to do more in final fantasy XI than just spam delve.

[Zarchery]

I'm a little disappointed. I worked for months on a Spharai just to have it. I don't regret my actions. I enjoyed it, having a goal to strive for. But the thing is that I was able to strive for it alone. I could do it casually, with 2 hours of Dynamis farming a day that I could start when I wanted. These Relic upgrade requirements feel like a combination of "time sink" and "hope you're lucky enough to get a good group". While I appreciate that this is an multiplayer game by design, I just don't have the patience for rolling the dice on group gathering any more.

Also, as Vold pointed out, it seems really odd that, in order to upgrade a relic to be as good as a delve weapon, you need to do the same thing that will probably get you a delve weapon.

[Zarchery]

Well if that is the case how is that fair. here take this win on a mythic but we wont' let you make it mega boss so its useless good job btw at winning.

It's probably just an oversight. SE can fix this in an upcoming patch.

[Kincard]

There's just no arguing with you people that are mentally twisted enough to think "lol you can do this at 1/50th the speed by farming seals and then spamming BCs/farming bayld and then spamming WKR" to the people who never enjoyed Delve farming, or people who actually think "lol isn't this exactly what you wanted". This is without even mentioning the total retardation of "farm something that drop lv119 weapons 200 times, to get a lv119 weapon through a quest". If I was sane I'd sit on all my gil my inactive account has, log back in another 6 months when the market has settled and buy my way to victory, and then quit the game again (or just get bent and don't bother). Of course, SOMEBODY has to be farming these, who knows if there's actually going to be enough people actually supplying these in a few months.

I honestly really love[d] the game, so it just hurts to see simple things like this handled in such an idiotic way.

But really, pchan, I sincerely wish you happiness farming ADL another 200 times to afford your shit. I'm not going to be taking my advice from what's fun and what's not from someone who does the same fight every single fucking day for literally years though.

[FaeQueenCory]

Also, as Vold pointed out, it seems really odd that, in order to upgrade a relic to be as good as a delve weapon, you need to do the same thing that will probably get you a delve weapon.

I don't want to farm anything anymore coz I know it will be replaced in short time, that goes for armor and weaps too.
These two statement pretty much sums everything up.

And I think they actually play off each other.

The fact that everything you work for will become worthless in an update makes the effort of grinding out Delve to upgrade your REM not only daunting but a "why even bother" type deal.

People expected something similar to the +1ification of skirmish gear.
Why did no one care about that being easy as sin?
Because we all knew that that gear would be crap in a week.

The REM requiring a HUGE investment... not only to 119ify them.... but just to make the 75 base...
And the fear of instantly being made worthless again...

The Devs should really just come out and say it: Adoulin will NOT exceed 119.
Sure it'll piss off those ppl who have no life outside this game... cause now what will they do? they have all the 119 gear...
But for all the massive amounts of ppl who don't have the time to do nothing but grind Delve...
It'll assuage the populous knowing that the 119 effort for REMs will be worth it.

[cyric]

I actually didn't know there was a box and case, I just said case because I had forgotten (poor short term memory). I'm pretty sure it was a case though.

[Zumi]

In terms of drops it goes box > case > single.

Nobody has found a box yet. If salvage/nyzul pouches is basically the system we got here, there were cotton pouch had like 3-15, and linen pouch which had 50-99.

Now then nobody has really found a box yet which could possible have 55-99 rem items. I theorize that the boxes drop from macrocosmic orb fights set on lv5 or very difficulit. Nobody has done one of these orb fights yet since you must beat it once on normal to unlock level 4 and 5, and those orbs are 20 SKC each which takes quite some time to farm. Took someone in my LS 4 hours of killing SoA mobs just to get 10.

Where else could boxes drop from which might be the fast way to do RME 119? Only place I can think of is hard mode macrocosmic orb fights.

[detlef]

It could come from some content that hasn't been introduced yet. Perhaps they'll be released with the next Delve update.

[Zumi]

It could come from some content that hasn't been introduced yet. Perhaps they'll be released with the next Delve update.

Nobody had deconfirmed them not droping from hard mode orb fights yet so we should look there first.

[Damane]

Wait, you can sell the REM upgrade materials? Oh. So, why's everyone complaining? We wanted something for hardcores to work toward instead of just sitting around AFK, people were complaining about there being nothing to do just last week. This and the AF upgrades have give the game two boosts that it needed. 1) We now have our REMs back, possibly even giving us that "elite Gear" feeling people have been missing depending on long it takes to upgrade (You know how a lot of people have been complaining about how everyone has Oat and there's no gear that you feel sentimental toward?) and 2) Gil actually serves a function again which has been a nagging problem for some time so I hear.

As far as the "But I have SO many REM's" or the "There are too many REMs that need upgrading" argument goes, I assume this was intentional on SE's part. Now there's a greater way of showing everyone your devotion to a job via these continuous upgrades. Are you upgrade all your REM's maybe not but your "Main Job"'s? Yeah, you might. So, maybe I'm missing something but all in all, it doesn't seem that bad.

I am sorry, even if the stuff is sellable, it doesnt cut it for me. I was hopeing for fun stuff, going back to delve after haveing it grinded out to death allready isnt fun... I am caped on delve gear (with full upgrades) and honestly bored of it now.

the new SKSNM sound fun, but there is the bottleneck/cockblock of haveing to farm sacred kindred crests (there isnt even an exchange option to exchange old seals into them) for probably 4 hours to get one orb going. Honestly if the new SKSNM were rather some form of battlefield you could enter once a day, so if you are a 6 man PT of people = x6 per day, once for each person, I would have been fine with it. But this is just utter garbage -_-.

Another fact is probable that I got so detached from FFXI the last 2 months (barely logging in) that I dont even care to go visit the new zones ._., there is 3 reasons for that:
1. alot of friends quit (some are still around!)
2. I feel like I am wasting my time trying to chase the carrot, because everything will become obsolete in 3-4 months anyway, which throws me back to point 0
3. my focus shifted and I dont want and cant invest that much time into FFXI like before

combine reason 2 and 3 together and you see why my motivation for this game has hit the lowest point ever: I dont have as much time to play as before -----> gear is getting constantly outdated -----> too much strain on time to keep up/on top -----> gear gets outdate again -----> you start to think "wtf is this shit I cant do this forever every 1-2 months" -----> REM update roles in with another huge timesink ----> "ok fuck this shit" is all I thought


I have no problem with partial parts of gearsets getting outdated, but alas atm it seems like everytime an update rolls in i have to replace almost all my gearsets with 5-6 gear pieces to keep the jobs I play on top. This is very time consumeing and frustrating when you play 5 different jobs that share little to no gear together (SCH WHM WAR COR BLU). the only jobs that share some moderate gear together are SCH and WHM and thats only for some curepotency and idle refresh pieces/debuff pieces/fast cast gear set (and thats only partialy). WAR COR and BLU share very little gear together.

besides the dev team allready indirectly said that it wont stop with iLvl 119 when they said that they will keep REM updated when they increase the iLvl to the next batch...
Dont get me wrong I like doing stuff, but i would like to have the feeling on working on something that doesnt get trivialized/obsolet as soon as I finished it.

[Monchat]

There's just no arguing with you people that are mentally twisted enough to think "lol you can do this at 1/50th the speed by farming seals and then spamming BCs/farming bayld and then spamming WKR" to the people who never enjoyed Delve farming, or people who actually think "lol isn't this exactly what you wanted". This is without even mentioning the total retardation of "farm something that drop lv119 weapons 200 times, to get a lv119 weapon through a quest". If I was sane I'd sit on all my gil my inactive account has, log back in another 6 months when the market has settled and buy my way to victory, and then quit the game again (or just get bent and don't bother). Of course, SOMEBODY has to be farming these, who knows if there's actually going to be enough people actually supplying these in a few months.

I honestly really love[d] the game, so it just hurts to see simple things like this handled in such an idiotic way.

But really, pchan, I sincerely wish you happiness farming ADL another 200 times to afford your shit. I'm not going to be taking my advice from what's fun and what's not from someone who does the same fight every single fucking day for literally years though.

200 times? Don't take those BG qqers too seriously. The update was live yesterday I already have 50/300 boulder(empy) and 50/300 pluton (relic) for a total of 4 hours of work, w/o buying anything. The QQers just want to find an excuse to not come back.

[Zumi]

What most people seem to be doing is spaming WRK to get items. Since the WKR price was dropped to 15k bayld you get that back during the fight and possible case with a lot of items in it. Not 100% that you get a rme item though.

[Twille]

Introducing Sacred Kindred Crests was a bad idea, the other 4 types of seals was enough, another type to collect is just stupid at this point.
Not allowing the other types of seals to be converted into the Sacred Kindred Crests was insulting.
/rant
between beastmen seals, kindred seals, kindred crests and high kindred crests, i have thousands of unused seals, THOUSANDS. why? because the battlefields they're used for dont appeal to me. What does appeal to me? Upgrading my original AF to ilvl 109 does! but of course I can't put any of my unused seals to any use, i have to farm up some new type of seal, thanks for nothing SE. Oh, and don't even get me started on the BCNM being a 6-man event....
/end rant

all-in-all, i'm pretty much done with FFXI. SE is consistently falling short of any expectation or hope that I have for this game.:
RMEs were expected to get a boost to the level 99 versions, instead we get a ridiculous quest involving items from an event we're already tired of doing.
You already saw my displeasure about AF upgrades.
SOA missions are complete garbage.
The implementation of ilvl gear throughout SOA content has been laughable at best. (regardless of whether we like or dislike ilvl gear, it could have been done much better)
They threw too much gear at us too quickly and sporadically. Wildskeeper Reives and Delve were released before being fully completed (not all zones available) which has left large gaps between jobs, most noticeably being those jobs with ilvl119 weapons available.
Just typing all this out is getting me rather frustrated.

FFXI was a fun game that I really enjoyed playing, just not anymore.

[Ravenmore]

To tell you the truth the forums was the worst idea SE ever thought up and then listening to everyone. This is what everyone was asking for. The good old days of farming content you were sick of just to upgrade/finally get the item you wanted. Sky, sea, limbus, dyna were all fun the first few times of doing it then they all became boring as watching the TV guide scrolling by but it still had the items you wanted so you did it. I see no difference between the "Good old days" and now having to do content that is no longer fun to get items. Every time people ask SE to go back to the old days this is what SE seen. Then we have the stat vomit on all the gear that has been coming out, same thing SE listened to people whine that they had to carry 2 to 3 sets of gear and use 3rd party tools just to do a WS. There was also complainants of having to farm gear, again from boring content that had been beaten into the ground to just be 1 or 2% better then what you had before but taking 20x longer to get it.

It's really sad at how badly SE over corrects. We went from them never listen to a thing we say to going to the other extreme and listen to everything.

[FaeQueenCory]

Introducing Sacred Kindred Crests was a bad idea, the other 4 types of seals was enough, another type to collect is just stupid at this point.
Not allowing the other types of seals to be converted into the Sacred Kindred Crests was insulting.
/rant
between beastmen seals, kindred seals, kindred crests and high kindred crests, i have thousands of unused seals, THOUSANDS. why? because the battlefields they're used for dont appeal to me. What does appeal to me? Upgrading my original AF to ilvl 109 does! but of course I can't put any of my unused seals to any use, i have to farm up some new type of seal, thanks for nothing SE. Oh, and don't even get me started on the BCNM being a 6-man event....
/end rant
Wait.
You mean to tell me...

That...

I....

Can't...

Trade the 500000000 crappy seals in the 3=1 conversion??

Are you sure??

Surely that must be an oversight....
I mean...
We can trade three of any into any one of any of the others.....
>_>

Someone please tell me Twille is horribly mistaken.
Craaaaaaap.
:(
I hope they fix this and the Mythic problem soon.

[Zumi]

They don't want to give you easy access to the new bcnms because that would lead to people who have tons of old seals stored up getting a bunch of drops and items with very little work based on having saved up tons of old seals. I don't think they will offer a transfer of seals to the newest SKC.

They want you to grind mobs for seals, just like they want you to grind delve, wkr, as the other options to get upgrade items.

[Kagetachi]

the AF upgrades need 10 items for normal and 5 for +1. plus 2 other items. reading the description of Rem's adventures however, says there are 10 chapters. so will the next 5 chapters be for AF99+1 or Relic99?

[FaeQueenCory]

They don't want to give you easy access to the new bcnms because that would lead to people who have tons of old seals stored up getting a bunch of drops and items with very little work based on having saved up tons of old seals. I don't think they will offer a transfer of seals to the newest SKC.

They want you to grind mobs for seals, just like they want you to grind delve, wkr, as the other options to get upgrade items.
That would be a valid argument....
Except the Sacred Kindred Seals are in the 100pt category in the next login campaign... which starts monday.
So "they want us to work for it" just doesn't hold water when they are giving it away immediately.
All things considered, this update was huge... many many MANY things got implemented...
It was probably just an oversight.
At least they remembered to make them storable with Shami/Shemo right off the bat. (I have the strangest sense that previously new seals were not storable day1... but I honestly can't recall if that was a thing or not.)


the AF upgrades need 10 items for normal and 5 for +1. plus 2 other items. reading the description of Rem's adventures however, says there are 10 chapters. so will the next 5 chapters be for AF99+1 or Relic99?
Probably relic or empy if they use more grind items.
EDIT: It seems that Matsui wants to make the AF1.... 119.... >_>
I really hope he just meant AF as in the all inclusive AF1/2/3 for Artifact, Relic, and Empyrean sets...
But If he meant AF1 will one day be 119.... >_>
Well, looks like we know what we'll have to grind for to get the items for the jump from 109 to 119.
>_>
They better have added the seal trading is all I'm saying... :/

[Zarchery]

If the upgrade items are purchasable, that makes the process a lot less frightening. I can solo grind for cash and buy stuff. I did it with Umbral Marrow, and I farmed a boat load of Dynamis currency.... BUT... if I need to farm 300 million gil... that's a bit out there. Here's hoping we can get SE to relent like they did with the original requirements for the 95->99 upgrades on these things.

[detlef]

I've done 5 WKR and between 3 characters I've gotten 1 boulder and 1 beitetsu. That's a little frightening.

[Monchat]

go solo your matamata with your whm mule, takes 7 mn. Eft and raptor chappuli scorpion orobon (and others) take 5 minute with 2 DD 1 BRD.

[Kincard]

We've largely eased the difficulty for obtaining the Walk of Echoes weapons and for unlocking their special weapon skills. Please understand that this is not the beginning phase for the easing of difficulty for creating relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons.

lol
goddamn
i don't know if this means what i think it means, but if your goal is to retain your existing subscribers then continuously introducing new trials where we collect 300 NM items while making the parts we've already finished take 10 byne bills to finish is probably only going to be frustrating. I'm sure it'll make those people freshly joining FFXI incredibly happy that the initial stages will be easier now though, because we all know XI gets a lot of those.

[Sapphires]

Well lets be honest here, with my server pop at 1200ish during JP prime, and like 400-500ish at other times, only the JP forums exploding over the difficulty are going to carry any weight.
People that fishbot or 6box are the only ones that are going to pay 500k+ per upgrade piece or dont find the task at hand difficult.

I don't find it unreasonable to pay maybe 100k per piece, but right now the droprate depending on the activity you do is on par with VW riftcinder so people want 1M which is crazy.

I think SE fails to see that if it was made a bit more reasonable, more people would come back and play longer and think about upgrading multiple RMEs with the new trial if the supply was much higher.
Right now the initial impression is so bad that people dont want to come back or have to swallow the bitter pill that they have to pick only 1 weapon to take through this new upgrade because its so costly from a time/gil standpoint.

[detlef]

Well lets be honest here, with my server pop at 1200ish during JP prime, and like 400-500ish at other times, only the JP forums exploding over the difficulty are going to carry any weight.
People that fishbot or 6box are the only ones that are going to pay 500k+ per upgrade piece or dont find the task at hand difficult.

I don't find it unreasonable to pay maybe 100k per piece, but right now the droprate depending on the activity you do is on par with VW riftcinder so people want 1M which is crazy.

I think SE fails to see that if it was made a bit more reasonable, more people would come back and play longer and think about upgrading multiple RMEs with the new trial if the supply was much higher.
Right now the initial impression is so bad that people dont want to come back or have to swallow the bitter pill that they have to pick only 1 weapon to take through this new upgrade because its so costly from a time/gil standpoint.Yeah, I'm looking at 600 Beitetsu. That's quite a bit, even looking at it as a long term goal. 1m per item is far more than what a reasonable person would pay, but right now that is probably the appropriate price from the sellers' perspective based on how difficult they are to obtain. Hopefully something gives a little bit because RME upgraders will probably not pay that, and sellers are going to have a hard time lowering the price because they are still pretty challenging to obtain.

I posted in the WKR feedback thread that I would like to see the drop rate increased slightly such that WKRs can be sustained even after players cap out on gear. Something is also going to have to be done with Sacred Kindred's Crests so that people can participate in the new battlefields. Upgraded AF shouldn't be significantly more difficult to obtain than Yorcia Skirmish gear, so hopefully that gets adjusted too.

In the mean time, it's comforting to know that even Valefor, the most red-headed of all the servers, can now tackle WKR like champs. I'm hoping that the server will finally get slightly better so that there are more successful pickup Delve shouts and more items are introduced to the market.

[Byrth]

I got 6 Beitetsu last night:
* 3 came from 7 Matamata - I joined a shout group and we 4-manned it.
* 2 were direct drops from 5x Wildskeeper Reives
* 1 I got by trading a boulder for a Beitetsu

At 2% per night, it would take me less than 2 months to complete Terpsichore to 119 even without buying any, without an LS, etc. Wait until people give the BCs a shot this weekend. Very hard mode won't be beatable by everyone, but it guarantees a Case + Single. They will really start to flow soon.

I bet I finish Terpsichore to 119 in two weeks.

[Zumi]

On my server prices seem to be
Relic 250k each
Empyrean 150k
Mythic 100k

Due to the fact a lot more people have 99 relics, empyrean and mythics are far less in comparison.

[FaeQueenCory]

Upgraded AF shouldn't be significantly more difficult to obtain than Yorcia Skirmish gear, so hopefully that gets adjusted too.
From your lips to God's Ear.

Does everyone one know the ONE simple... intern-level "fix" that would make ppl actually be able to do the AF1 upgrade in a timely fashion?

That's right!

Add the stupid seals to the trade table.
-_-

*see update*
"oh good. hope they fixed the mythic and seal shenanigans"
*they fixed the mythic*
-_- "where is my seal trade"

Though I'm not sure if everyone has seen the message yet... BUUUUT apparently.... Matsui knows that 300 BS item grind.... is too much BS...
And from his words...
No one is allowed to make 119 REMs.
Don't do it.
If no one makes any...
Then that 300 will severely drop...
Just like the 5k alexandrite.

(only mildly joking.... you crazies who have the time and drive... make your 119 REMs... but it's really nice to know that the number most likely will probably be dropping... *100 or 50 plz*)

[MarkovChain]

It seems that pluton and boulder have a higher droprate than beiretsu. Mdk and me have farmed ~120 plutons, 120 boulders but I think less than 40 beiretsu. We only do raptor/mata/eft though, might be the reason. It would be logical to not flood the market with beirtsu as there are very little mythics around.

[FaeQueenCory]

A quest storyline for each job. With three AF's dropping from completing quests, a moderately difficult pop NM battle for one AF item, and a super-hard bcnm for the last AF slot item (head or body).

TBH theres no way I'm doing the AF1 upgrades anyway if they plan to upgrade relic and empyrean armors later. I really love the set bonuses on my AF3+2 sets and the jobspecific bonuses on my augmented relic+2 sets. Imo SE should have done AF3 upgrade first, and done so after SOA was released. <That way> I could have just upgraded my af3+2 and used it in Seekers, instead of farming 50 sets of self-destructing bayld armors ("This armor set will self-destruct in one week!") that become obsolete before I've even had time to equip the damn things. And ugly ass Skirmish armors which you may have noticed are copies of Battle Trophy "Spry Armor Set" which was the ugliest armor ever and then replicated in skirmish.

Its BS that we have to grind lots of bcnm for these armors when they are supposed to be artifact ie. storyline related with historical significance relating to knowledge passed down from the NPC's who are masters of that specific job. This grinding number system is ok for some things but not for AF. Imho. And it just widens the gulf between the atmospheric and interesting jobspecific RPG storylines style of FFXI pre Aby/Soa and the thing we have now which is basically building by numbers.
It's hard to tell exactly... cause... Japanese=contextual hell...
But it could be that Matsui intends to have it so that the Artifact, Relic, and Empyrean sets all can be upgraded through 119....
Or maybe he meant that the Empy (AF3) will be the upgrade to 119...
Or maybe just the Af1 will go up to 119...

Translating Japanese is the devil.
So I can't say you shouldn't give up hope or not...
But for at least some of the jobs... some of the 109AF1 is hella good. (Namely thinking of SMN, but PUP is also really good too... and DNC... Fa~bu~lo~us!!)

Though I have to disagree about the AF3 being upgraded first....
I think that RUN and GEO AF1 should have just been an AF4 and we never have had to deal with iLvifying the three existing AFs...
So that RUN and GEO got their AF4 first because Abyssea and 99 and all that... and then the other jobs get their AF4s while RUN and GEO get their AF1-3.

On the other hand... Dear Lord that SMN horn... :D
And I don't mind the idea of all the JSE sets being all 119 and mix and matchy...
Sure I am horribly terrified at what Empy armor is gonna look like due to the whole set bonus gimmick it has...
They might even drop that for static bonuses/effects...
The design is really good on this 109AF1...
But I completely see where you are coming from.

[Dragoy]

While I agree, that it would be nice to have some actual quests again (that sure takes me back in time), upgrading the Artifact armour to level 74 (+1) didn't have a real quest to it either, so keeping that in mind, I'm not too fussy about it being just a fetch quest this time around (could of course be better).

What I find strange is how they made them 109 now, if they were already planning on taking them up to 119. That is odd. I would have imagined the Relic and Empyrean armour to be around there, or higher.

I am actually eager, burning from the want of making the new versions of the original sets, but the Sacred Kindred's Crests are blocking the way; it's simply difficult (takes too much time) to get to even try one's mite on the battlefields. So yes, this part needs to be addressed, I feel, and I'm not even talking about the weapons (I have some Empyreans, perhaps a Relic at some point, and friends of mine have several, so there is that, too, but I'm giving it time).

I'm tempted to say, add copies of the chapters from Rem's Tale to other content, such as Campaign, but I guess that would make it too... easy... <ahem>, so I would suggest adding more ways to access the battlefields. Add the crests to something like Campaign (though the reward system there is begging for an overhaul before anything, but what about Allied Notes?).

It often seemed like it was more easy to implement new things than re-shaping the old, which I understand from a programmer's point of view; especially when it's something like FINAL FANTASY XI Online, it might be easier to put them into new things, such as the “Eminence Records” (new content only mentioned on the Japanese side so far some week(s) or so ago), what ever that may be (it looks like we should find out come December). I doubt the name is referring to a record company, so it'll probably be something like Through the Archives or something completely different!


Anyblue, what was I talking about?

Nothing!

[Dragoy]

However it didn't involve farming crests and spamming bcnms.

Well, there is the Limbus part, which I actually had to 'spam' quite a bit. Granted, it's way more accessible (these days), but I feel they will make these sets of armour accessible, too, as they keep saying how they would like to create more solo-friendly content moving forward.

As is, these battlefields are difficult to gain access to, yes, but I don't think it will remain that way for very long (or/and there will be additional content to go for to obtain the items).

I wonder if Empyrean and Relic armour upgrades will come from older content such as Voidwatch, as they did mention they're going to do something different with those, while they also mentioned earlier that they will be expanding to all areas, that is, to old cont(in)ent as well as to the new. I could see Voidwatch easily as they hinted on making that doable with less players as well (perhaps even I will finally go through that story)...

[Camate]

Greetings,

Below is a comment from Producer Akihiko Matsui in regards to the new battlefields and the crests needed to access them.



Matsui here.

Thanks for the feedback regarding Sacred Kindred’s crests.

We’ve made it so that as the level of the monsters become higher the drop rate on seals becomes higher as well.

As there is a difference between monster levels even within the same area, this is just a rough guide, but we’ve establish the drop rates for Sacred Kindred’s crests in the below manner for the monsters in each area:



<table width="350" border="0"><tr><td width="15.0%" align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Area</td><td width="15.0%" align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Sacred Kindred’s crest drop rate</td><tr><td align="center" bgcolor="#f5fafb">Kamihr Drifts<br>Woh Gates</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#f5fafb">High</td></tr><tr><td align="center" bgcolor="#f5fafb">Yorcia Weald<br>Marjami Ravine<br>Dho Gates</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#f5fafb">Medium</td></tr><tr><td align="center" bgcolor="#f5fafb">Yahse Hunting Grounds<br>Ceizak Battlegrounds<br>Foret de Hennetiel<br>Morimar Basalt Fields<br>Moh Gates<br>Sih Gates<br>Cirdas Caverns</td><td align="center" bgcolor="#f5fafb">Low</td></tr></table>


Originally we would get seals while we leveled up and then use those seals, but we aren’t leveling up now and it’s pretty rough to go get seals as a means of having a good time playing.


It’s true that the feeling between defeating enemies to obtain seals and obtaining seals as a byproduct of defeating enemies with a different goal in mind is different.
Currently there are not many opportunities to defeat regular monsters in Adoulin areas, so in future version updates we would like to increase the benefits for doing so.



Can you make it possible to exchange seals with Shemo to receive Sacred Kindred’s crests?


When giving consideration to the conditions after implementation and also to the amount of seals below High Kindred’s crests in circulation, we had expected instanced areas to experience congestion and decided not to implement this in the recent update.

We will be addressing this in a future version update.
We plan on keeping the exchange rate and rules as they are.

[Terrigenesis]

or you could make them drop from the Colonization Rieves... you already give us useless Arrowwood logs so you might as well add in something of use

[Dragoy]

Hm, as expected, fears of congestion was the reason for no exchanging seals/crests. Thank you for confirming that.

I never had many seals and/or crests, but I guess others do, somehow. Right now I think I have less than 150 beastmen's seals (only because of the log-in campaigns), and less than 100 of them others.

I do wonder if the post is also confirming that Sacred Kindred's Crests can not be obtained outside Adoulin areas? In which case the few I did get, were actually not supposed to appear in Gustav Tunnel. I fully expect that since I got about 5 or so right away as I went there after the version update, and then they just stopped appearing (haven't tried afterwards).

Oh well. Even if I could travel to Adoulin, I wouldn't be hunting monsters for just this reason; it's very dull, and I shall wait and see what the future brings. At least they can be looted more often now, so thank you for that!

It's still unfortunate since I was surprisingly excited (which doesn't oft happen!) about creating the sets.

:|


Edit:

Answering my own question: it is still possible to find the Sacred Kindred's Crests in areas other than Adōulin. \ö/

Still not going to go fer them unless I can think of something else to do at the same time...

[FrankReynolds]

When giving consideration to the conditions after implementation and also to the amount of seals below High Kindred’s crests in circulation, we had expected instanced areas to experience congestion and decided not to implement this in the recent update.

Knock it off. This is terrible logic and it pisses everyone off every time you use it.

[Mefuki]

Between the fears of over congestion and giving us a reason to kill all the high level normal monsters in Adoulin and else where, I don't think it's necessarily that bad of a setup right now. I have hundreds of other seals stockpiled. If I could immediately transfer all of them into SKC, I could potentially spam the BCNM all day. I'm just one person. Imagine if the whole server did this.

Note Matsui didn't say he'd never let 3:1 transfers happen just not right now, when everyone is doing it. Also consider that he gave us some insight into what area has the best drop rates. That's more info than we usually receive. Combine that with the new info I'm reading on BG about zoning affecting crest drops in the AF Upgrade thread (which reminds me very much of when Abyssea first came out and we were all raging about it because we didn't know anything about the mechanics), and I don't think the BCNM entry requirements are quite so unreasonable. People have been reporting, using the methods in that thread, that after an hour or two they have enough to do the BCNM. A BCNM, I needn't remind you, drops AF upgrade items AND 119 upgrade materials. Sounds pretty good to me.

[Zarchery]

The item collection part doesn't bother me since you can buy the stuff, but the requirement of the Delve win does. You need 18 high level players for that and I just don't have those kinds of connections unless I'm lucky enough to get accepted into a pickup group. And I have to be online all day and lucky enough for one to crop up.

[detlef]

The item collection part doesn't bother me since you can buy the stuff, but the requirement of the Delve win does. You need 18 high level players for that and I just don't have those kinds of connections unless I'm lucky enough to get accepted into a pickup group. And I have to be online all day and lucky enough for one to crop up.I just don't see how someone with ilvl 119 aspirations doesn't have the wherewithal to make connections. You go through the effort to have the best weapon(s) in the game, but aren't motivated to pursue the best gear in the game to support the weapon? Even if you had to merc a single Tojil win, you just get it done.

The next login campaign will give Yggzi beads, meaning you only have to kill 2 NMs and the mega boss for the win. There's your chance.

[Zarchery]

I just don't see how someone with ilvl 119 aspirations doesn't have the wherewithal to make connections. You go through the effort to have the best weapon(s) in the game, but aren't motivated to pursue the best gear in the game to support the weapon? Even if you had to merc a single Tojil win, you just get it done.

The next login campaign will give Yggzi beads, meaning you only have to kill 2 NMs and the mega boss for the win. There's your chance.

I don't understand your statement. Relic work so far has been entirely soloable. I've had to team up with two others for the Mildageneux x5 and Animated Knuckles x10 trials. A Delve win requires 18 people. I frankly don't have the social or leadership skills to corral that many strangers to do something I've never done before.

[FaeQueenCory]

When giving consideration to the conditions after implementation and also to the amount of seals below High Kindred’s crests in circulation, we had expected instanced areas to experience congestion and decided not to implement this in the recent update.

We will be addressing this in a future version update.
We plan on keeping the exchange rate and rules as they are.
While this is... Admirable.
And shows good foresight.
...
Blocking people from easily participating in content to alleviate server clog.........
Is not a good way to alleviate server clog.

And judging from his comment........ Hopefully this means that in the next update... Or sooner... This intentional oversight is remedied.

Not everyone has the time to spend grinding out 20x10x5=1000 SKCs....
Especially not now... Because this is job/school/children crunch time. *fall semesters*
And that number is just assuming 1BCMN/1page... Most ppl have more than one AF they'd like to 109ify... And even doing the BCNMs at max, that's 4 sets made for 1000 SKCs.
So the "crazies" (I kid because I have mad respect for your dedication) who have 20 AF1s to 109ify... yeah...

They are giving them away during the next login campaign...
For 100pt a single SKC.
That's not a lot of SKCs...

While I can understand wanting to make it so that people don't crap out the servers....
The servers handled the Yorcia Wield update.
Why shouldn't they also have been able to handle this one with the same efficiency?
We'd understand if there was a bit of lag or whatever... we get it. Server space.
But intentionally making it so that only the people who have infinite resources are able to do this... not cool.

And, Dragoy, while I have not had Eliosha for every long... only a few years now...
Eliosha has about 500ish for every seal.
Never bought one from a login until this last one when I had 900pts and nothing to spend them on... so I got 90 beastmen seeing as I have a newbie friend who will need those BCNMs.
Sure, some are like 450... and others are like 580 or 600... My highest is either Kindred Crests or High Kindred Crests... whichever is the more common from Abyssea... Because when I take a job from 75 to 99... those are what I get... and last I looked... the count was something redic like 780ish. (also from Meriting those jobs too)
So I can only imagine what people who have been playing for longer than me have...
(I also blame never doing the 30->99 burn for having so many of the lower ones too... that and my severe hoarding tendencies in RPGs...)

All in all: add to the stupid trade table. Maybe then the people who have real world responsibilities might actually DO the content...

[Zumi]

The congestion for RME items is not in bcnms because the seals have an abysmal drop rate.

The real congestion is at ??? at Mata, Chapuli, Raptor, and to a lesser extent taxet. The easy pop-able delve nms. If the dev team was worried about congestion, they should check out "Johnny Q Dualboxer" hogging the mata ??? for 10 hours straight, who starts to complain when you get in a pop and starts yelling obscenities at you.

[FaeQueenCory]

So log-in event wise, we can buy 1 SKC for 100 points, or buy 10 bseals for 100 points, and will soon be able to convert the ten bseals at 3-to-1 into 3 SKCs. So why would anyone buy one SKC from event when they could get three times as many by buying bseals and converting them.
I am farming seals again now , new and old. The problem is that most people doing the SKCNM fights are doing runs in closed LS groups, they don't want to do PUGs and risk wasting their SKCs because of PUG-related mishaps. And most of the smaller LS are nearly empty post SoA, including ours. So the problem isn't so much obtaining seals, it is obtaining people who want to do the bcnms and who have spaces in their group.
Bold is the other half of the problem....
Which would also be solved with adding the conversion table.

"oh no! this PUG wiped! now I'm down 20 SKC..."
With the conversion available it becomes:
"oh no! this PUG wiped! now I'm down 20 SKC... Oh well... I got xbajillion other seals, I'll just go convert some more."

(also, it's really hard to tell because... Japanese is the devil... but it seems like they might be postponing adding the conversion? Like... there's an implication from this: "こちらは、今後のバージョンアップで対応します。
交換レートやルールは、従来通りにする予定です。" that makes it seem like when they add the conversion... it'll be like the December update... BUT... maybe they'll add it in tomorrow's maintenance... this kind of thing is the programming level of an intern with a spreadsheet... But even if it won't happen until December at the earliest... at least it will be a 3:1 rate... instead of some new stupid rate.)

[Zumi]

Yeah but some of us don't have millions of seals. For example I converted countless thousands of seals into kindred seals to spam ks99 for the sole purpose of helping LS Members obtain their Black Belt items. I lost count of how many times I did this in the last few years. I don't even play monk but I was happy to use my seals to help LS members.

To recap ; the Af1 99 upgrade path is bloody awful. The finished Af1-99 is practically the same as the higher end bayld & skirmish armors which can be obtained in absolutely no time and being AFK too. To have to grind 1000s of bcnm crests to upgrade some af1 sets is bullshit, when you consider they are not that much better than what is available for free with 18k Bayld. Add to that the low server numbers, and the fact that most ppl spamming those bcnms are doing so in statics on their endgame LS, what you have got is a new Af1 upgrade system that penalises solo players and players who are on low-man LS, or simply in LS (like mine) that are nearly empty since SoA arrived and pissed everyone off and made them play Tetris instead.

Even if the spamming bcnm requirement for multiple sets of upgraded af1 were actually just CS trigger soloable bcnms, and not requiring thousands of crests, it would still be a fairly bullshit system compared to storyline reward systems and quest-specific battlefields. But if the upgrading Af1 via solo bcnm option was there I would take it, because nobody on my LS wants to upgrade af1 and ppl arent doing PUGs for it either. So SE designed a brand new brick wall for people to be brought to a dead stop by. Praise Altana.

Have you done the new BCNM? There have different difficulty levels. Normal was a joke it probably can be beat with 2 or 3 people. Took 6 people and destroyed it on normal the mobs hardly hit for any damage at all. Really only level 4 or 5 are very challenging and require a full group.

I haven't done easy or very easy but I assume they are soloable. There is your solo option.

If you only have a small number of people, do 2 normal mode bcnm instead of going for level 5. You get 3 drops from level 3, 5 drops from level 5, but level 3 is so easy you can easily low man it.

[FaeQueenCory]

Yeah but some of us don't have millions of seals. For example I converted countless thousands of seals into kindred seals to spam ks99 for the sole purpose of helping LS Members obtain their Black Belt items. I lost count of how many times I did this in the last few years. I don't even play monk but I was happy to use my seals to help LS members.

To recap ; the Af1 99 upgrade path is bloody awful. The finished Af1-99 is practically the same as the higher end bayld & skirmish armors which can be obtained in absolutely no time and being AFK too. To have to grind 1000s of bcnm crests to upgrade some af1 sets is bullshit, when you consider they are not that much better than what is available for free with 18k Bayld. Add to that the low server numbers, and the fact that most ppl spamming those bcnms are doing so in statics on their endgame LS, what you have got is a new Af1 upgrade system that penalises solo players and players who are on low-man LS, or simply in LS (like mine) that are nearly empty since SoA arrived and pissed everyone off and made them play Tetris instead.

Even if the spamming bcnm requirement for multiple sets of upgraded af1 were actually just CS trigger soloable bcnms, and not requiring thousands of crests, it would still be a fairly bullshit system compared to storyline reward systems and quest-specific battlefields. But if the upgrading Af1 via solo bcnm option was there I would take it, because nobody on my LS wants to upgrade af1 and ppl arent doing PUGs for it either. So SE designed a brand new brick wall for people to be brought to a dead stop by. Praise Altana.
That's true. Not everyone has the resources I do... but I didn't mean to imply that you did too.
I was just saying that having the conversion option alleviates the need to farm SKCs exclusively. Because even if you don't have a bajillion seals, the "dead seal drops" that you get while farming the SKC can then become SKC and thus aren't dead drops anymore.

The MNKs I know had gotten their BB a long time ago... So the only BCNMs that I have ever needed seals to help someone else has been the Beastmen Seal seals....
But yeah, my point was that having the conversion means that any other seals that drop while farming the SKC will hold the potential to be a SKC too.

Have you done the new BCNM? There have different difficulty levels. Normal was a joke it probably can be beat with 2 or 3 people. Took 6 people and destroyed it on normal the mobs hardly hit for any damage at all. Really only level 4 or 5 are very challenging and require a full group.

I haven't done easy or very easy but I assume they are soloable. There is your solo option.

If you only have a small number of people, do 2 normal mode bcnm instead of going for level 5. You get 3 drops from level 3, 5 drops from level 5, but level 3 is so easy you can easily low man it.
This is very good to hear.... buuuuut... the 1:1 page:BCNM pop requires 1000 SKCs just to 109ify a single set...
while having the solo option is good.
And it's even feasible.... if the conversion was allowable.

Most people do not have all jobs at 99.
But most people DO have 2-3 jobs leveled to 99 that they will want 109ification for.... at least.
So... basically we really need the conversion to let everyone have access.


Tbh I haven't tried because I'm still farming SKC. Also I wasn't sure if it had entry requirement 6/6. It doesn't say 1-6 players it says requirement 6. On POL, under the "upgrade AF" tab it also says 20 kindred's crests, rather than SKC. Again that confused me. I have a fairly confused factory-setting to begin with (getting old!) so those POL announcements don't help.

I have only heard of people doing it on 6/6. If it is soloable or duoable they should say that on POL. What they said "20 kindreds crests to enter" shouldn't that say 20 SKC? And it says"restrictions : 6 persons" normally it would say "1-6 persons" if it was soloable. Seriously though if it is duoable I have a friend who wants to build the new AF. I'm certainly happy to try, I've been soloing bcnm for a long time. I just wasn't sure if they locked it for 6 person only. Also not sure if it can be done by two people in 30 mins. A lot of solo/low man stuff like this results in the mob on like 2% and you time out, which is ok if its just a mission battlefield but it sucks when you are losing 20 SKC for it.
As it is, a) I'm still farming the SKCs and b) as other have pointed out this system is mega b@ll$, AF should never involve farming thousands of seals, and more so when equally powerful armors can be obtained for like 0.01% of the effort in skirmish or from the Peacekeepers lol. Its just a fail idea, and I realise they are "organic process" and trying stuff out, but I think they made an error on it to use bcnm and crests.
But I will get an orb tomorrow and try to enter on solo or duo. But that doesn't change the fact that its a dumb system really, theres like 100 other ways they could have upgraded af1 without losing any of the work ethic or challenge. And those ways would be more fun too.
That's all translation "error".
You see... Japanese is... something.
The Japanese you'll learn in a university classroom is nothing like the Japanese people speak...
Every language has dialects... but this isn't a dialectal thing...
The truth is.... Japanese people don't speak in full sentences.
Like... 70% of sentences spoken will be just a verb, or just a noun... nothing else.
And this happens in writing too... though less frequently in text than in rl speech.
The thing is, Japanese is a 100% context based language. Hence why "kindred crests" is in the notes... because Japanese is contextual, makes that mean the Sacred Kindred Crests....
Though it's been almost a week since I looked at the original JP announcement... soooooooo... I could be misremembering and it's just a localization error.
But recall that it was just "demon seal" and not "holy demon seal"... But I could be misremembering.

[Dragoy]

The item collection part doesn't bother me since you can buy the stuff, but the requirement of the Delve win does.

Well there is the option of clearing one of the new battlefields in “difficult” or “very difficult” setting instead of Menace Inspection.


And, Dragoy, while I have not had Eliosha for every long... only a few years now...
Eliosha has about 500ish for every seal.

I don't have very much playtime either... 698'ish days, but much like Stompa there, I have repeatedly used all of my crests/seals to either try my luck on a Kraken Club or the Black Belt items (from which the latter, especially the behemoth tongue took ages, was for a friend, and we didn't even find one in over 10 battles (but I digress)).

Them seals and crests just don't come my way (not partying for EXP probably isn't helping).


Also I wasn't sure if it had entry requirement 6/6. It doesn't say 1-6 players it says requirement 6. On POL, under the "upgrade AF" tab it also says 20 kindred's crests, rather than SKC.

I agree that it could be clearer, though I personally just imagined it meaning 'up to 6'. And yes, the mistake regarding the crests still isn't fixed, even though the matter has been reported on the day of the update...

Tsk.


I'll still wait the alternative options they'll come up with, and if I happen to find enough siegels, I'll go and take a look see.

[Byrth]

... the 1:1 page:BCNM pop requires 1000 SKCs just to 109ify a single set...

My impression is that every person at the BC gets 2 pages per completion, and then the BC itself drops 1-5 pages based on the difficulty mode. So if you solo the easiest mode you get 3 drops per orb. If you do the hardest mode (YPYD) in a group of 6, you get 17 pages per orb.

It takes 5 pages to upgrade a +1 piece and 10 pages to upgrade a NQ piece. So really:
Solo - 33 SKCs per +1 upgrade, 67 SKCs per NQ upgrade; 167 SKCs per +1 full set upgraded, 333 SKCs per NQ full set upgraded
Hard Mode Party - 6 SKCs per +1 upgrade, 12 SKCs per NQ upgrade

If you're really going to go about soloing it, I would hope that you can also go solo Limbus (can enter every day now) and upgrade your stuff from NQ to +1.

[FaeQueenCory]

I don't have very much playtime either... 698'ish days, but much like Stompa there, I have repeatedly used all of my crests/seals to either try my luck on a Kraken Club or the Black Belt items (from which the latter, especially the behemoth tongue took ages, was for a friend, and we didn't even find one in over 10 battles (but I digress)).

Them seals and crests just don't come my way (not partying for EXP probably isn't helping).
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying that you should have a lot of seals or anything...
I was just giving my example of a 2yrold character who has >2000 useless seals... But I know a lot of my friends don't have the seals that I have... I, unlike you, have just been lucky...

Ultimately, it's like what I said to Stompa, adding the conversions will help everyone.
For those that don't have many seals: any new seal will be able to be turned into a SKC, making 0 "dead" seal drops.
For those that already have a stockpile: they can now actually use the seals they have saved up for something worthwhile.


My impression is that every person at the BC gets 2 pages per completion, and then the BC itself drops 1-5 pages based on the difficulty mode. So if you solo the easiest mode you get 3 drops per orb. If you do the hardest mode (YPYD) in a group of 6, you get 17 pages per orb.

It takes 5 pages to upgrade a +1 piece and 10 pages to upgrade a NQ piece. So really:
Solo - 33 SKCs per +1 upgrade, 67 SKCs per NQ upgrade; 167 SKCs per +1 full set upgraded, 333 SKCs per NQ full set upgraded
Hard Mode Party - 6 SKCs per +1 upgrade, 12 SKCs per NQ upgrade

If you're really going to go about soloing it, I would hope that you can also go solo Limbus (can enter every day now) and upgrade your stuff from NQ to +1.
From my understanding.... it's based upon the difficulty of the BCNM.
very easy = 1
very hard = 4

With easy being soloable, that's still 10pgs needed... meaning 10 BCNMs. Meaning 200 SKC just for a single piece of AF... not a whole set, just a hat or a glove.
For the set, that's 5x more... so 1000 SKCs.

I am not sure where you got the idea that they all drop 2 and then a bonus based on difficulty... if that's so... GREAT.
But I don't recall ever seeing that in the notes.
And further... I don't see how you get 13 SKCs... are you fractioning for 2 runs giving you a little more than 5? Cause... that's inherently misleading. You can't do that.
You can't spend 13 SKCs on an orb. It will cost you 40 per +1 upgrade no matter what, assuming you are not mistaken about the base/bonus page drops.
So your SKC numbers are just wrong.
Sure you might end up with "extra" seals...
But you can't fraction the cost of the entry item to be less than the entry item's cost.

And I didn't know Limbus was a daily thing now... I thought it was still 3day cooldown...
Well that's good to know... I guess. (I despise Limbus and the way you +1 the AF1s... too much randomness.... too much... grind without any gain, if that makes any sense...)
So it might very well be advantageous for people to +1 their AF1 first...

But ultimately that's a personal choice. (I hate Limbus so much, I am more than willing to spend some more SKCs on a couple more BCNMs... plus, I just don't have the TIME to Limbus+1 4 AF1s... and that's only when I can actually afford to do so by using my resources... some people have time, others have gil, I just have seals and never enough of the other two.)

[Ascadia]

So, let me make sure that I'm understanding this. You guys (Square Enix) held off on allowing us to exchange Beastmen seals, Kindred Crests, and High Kindred Crests for Sacred Kindred Crests due to fear of congestion on the instanced servers. Correct? Similarly, you're allowing us to upgrade our reforged AF (iLevel 109) to AF+1 (iLevel 119), in December, at which point you will also presumably be allowing us to exchange for Sacred Kindred Crests.


While currently the item level is 109, we are planning to increase it to 119 in the December version update.

After this, we would like to add upgrade content in a slightly different fashion for relic and empyrean armor.

As difficult and time-consuming as it is to farm seals now, and as few people care enough about iLevel 109 gear to put forth the time and effort to farm the seals, not many people have the reforged AF. The desire for the iLevel 119 reforged AF, however (which will presumably require the base reforged AF) will be much higher, leading to much more interest in doing the battlefields, which they will be able to do due to being able to exchange for Sacred Kindred Crests.

My point is this: in delaying the ability to exchange for Sacred Kindred Crests due to fear of server congestion, you've increased the amount of congestion the servers will experience in December past what it would have been otherwise. In my opinion, a viable solution would be to have a maintenance, mini-update, or something similar before the December update (the sooner the better) to allow us to exchange seals for Sacred Kindred Crests so that more people will have the base reforged AF. Think of it as spreading the server load out over time instead of waiting for it to explode when the December update is released.

Just my two cents.

[Zumi]

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying that you should have a lot of seals or anything...
I was just giving my example of a 2yrold character who has >2000 useless seals... But I know a lot of my friends don't have the seals that I have... I, unlike you, have just been lucky...

Ultimately, it's like what I said to Stompa, adding the conversions will help everyone.
For those that don't have many seals: any new seal will be able to be turned into a SKC, making 0 "dead" seal drops.
For those that already have a stockpile: they can now actually use the seals they have saved up for something worthwhile.


From my understanding.... it's based upon the difficulty of the BCNM.
very easy = 1
very hard = 4

With easy being soloable, that's still 10pgs needed... meaning 10 BCNMs. Meaning 200 SKC just for a single piece of AF... not a whole set, just a hat or a glove.
For the set, that's 5x more... so 1000 SKCs.

I am not sure where you got the idea that they all drop 2 and then a bonus based on difficulty... if that's so... GREAT.
But I don't recall ever seeing that in the notes.
And further... I don't see how you get 13 SKCs... are you fractioning for 2 runs giving you a little more than 5? Cause... that's inherently misleading. You can't do that.
You can't spend 13 SKCs on an orb. It will cost you 40 per +1 upgrade no matter what, assuming you are not mistaken about the base/bonus page drops.
So your SKC numbers are just wrong.
Sure you might end up with "extra" seals...
But you can't fraction the cost of the entry item to be less than the entry item's cost.

And I didn't know Limbus was a daily thing now... I thought it was still 3day cooldown...
Well that's good to know... I guess. (I despise Limbus and the way you +1 the AF1s... too much randomness.... too much... grind without any gain, if that makes any sense...)
So it might very well be advantageous for people to +1 their AF1 first...

But ultimately that's a personal choice. (I hate Limbus so much, I am more than willing to spend some more SKCs on a couple more BCNMs... plus, I just don't have the TIME to Limbus+1 4 AF1s... and that's only when I can actually afford to do so by using my resources... some people have time, others have gil, I just have seals and never enough of the other two.)

When you do the new bcnm there is personal drops and chest drops. Difficulty is 1 - 5. If you soloed something on lv1 you would get 2 personal drops, and 1 from the chest for a total of 3. Also update notes are vague and don't give the full story and often have translation errors.

[Demon6324236]

Here is what you have to look forward to. So far as I understand Monsters in Monstrosity will be able to level past 99 somehow, likely involving Infamy, but in either case. The idea I figure is get a monster to 99, once that update hits, level in a PvP uncapped zone so long as those exist, and tada, you win, play Monstrosity, have fun, enjoy yourself, be overpowered as all hell, and you can get SKCs still!

[Sapphires]

drop rate on SKC is from my own experiments in SoA zones pretty terrible, I spent a couple of hours soloing jagil and crackclaws on my dancer in Foret, and the SKC drop less often than one sees the Zaffre Ygrette Shards.
It seems like they added a minimum time limit before SKC can drop, so I cant get one sooner than 5 minutes since the previous one no matter how many things you kill, kind of like how they slowed us down from mass farming things like flame geodes with AOE burning.

[FaeQueenCory]

When you do the new bcnm there is personal drops and chest drops. Difficulty is 1 - 5. If you soloed something on lv1 you would get 2 personal drops, and 1 from the chest for a total of 3. Also update notes are vague and don't give the full story and often have translation errors.
Ah!
Thank you for clarifying. (and I know better than most how the production notes will have translation "errors" in them... it's why I follow the links to the JP release and read those too.)
This makes getting 10 a lot easier... even if one has to solo it. (I'd rather PUG... cause... I enjoy the social aspects of MMOs.. gasp!)
But that's still a huge mess of seals to get! (though not 1000 at least)


drop rate on SKC is from my own experiments in SoA zones pretty terrible, I spent a couple of hours soloing jagil and crackclaws on my dancer in Foret, and the SKC drop less often than one sees the Zaffre Ygrette Shards.
It seems like they added a minimum time limit before SKC can drop, so I cant get one sooner than 5 minutes since the previous one no matter how many things you kill, kind of like how they slowed us down from mass farming things like flame geodes with AOE burning.
You have to "cheat" to get a bunch... read: zone every time you get a seal/SKC to drop.

[Angrykitty]

I would like to see trial of magians weapon progression upgraded to level 119 as well. I'm sure i'm not alone on this idea. But rather than make it a monster grind to go past 99, there should be some other method to complete the upgrades...

[Glamdring]

this is a case of something where you "can't win for losing". 1st, with the reives, why bother? 2nd, they deliberately made colonization easier so people could get to battles; great, but it removed most incentive to just fight in the areas. if you put any of that back people will bitch about the need to waste time trying to keep paths open when they only want to get to the battles, like they did when you 1st made the changes. I don't envy you the decision on how to make old school play-regular mobs- relevant when old school partying is dead. but since I preferred that style I hope you can make it happen.

[Ravenmore]

Love you people bunch of dee dees.This is what you all have been asking for really. This is the game you all missed. A massive amount of grinding for something that may or may not be just a side grade or situational piece. Everyone should want a piece or two of the 99 af some of it is best in slot but no harm in only getting those pieces for the jobs you want you don't have to have the whole set.

If they made it the same as run and geo then the content would be dead in a week or two simple as that. Don't like tell you friends to leave 14 and come back....oh wait it was this way for years will 1% drop rates grinding a bunch of NMs with nothing for rewards to fight the big bads that drop the item you and the whole alliance wanted. The game has never delivered content at a reasonable rate so all the content we got took grinding it forever to finish it. People say they are sick of delve what they really mean is no reason since unlike Kirin that getting 18 people W.legs back in the day was a lol goal that everyone knew wasn't going to happen but they kept showing up hoping that it would be their turn before people burned out or left after they got their, worst yet the LS decides that they done enough of sky and it was time to move on.

[MarkovChain]

Box don't seem to come from SKC20 very hard mode, or at least they are not 100%. Got 1 single and one case. Also there were 3 AF-mats in the common pool and 4 in personal pool if anyone cares.

Bleh, did a second run and we got 1 single pluton and a single bouler from the chest... seriously wtf.

at least we got a title : "yagudo coopkeeper"

[Demon6324236]

The issue with what you are saying is the fact we would likely be waiting months still to get the RF for our jobs because to do that they would likely create a story around it too, unlike now where the story is as simple as getting things that tell them how to make our gear better I assume, like the plans for Salvage were. The fact they would have to create new stories on top of characters, animations, new ???s, monsters, quests, and so on, all would make it take much more time than this. While I can agree with you that I would rather have a real quest system to obtain them, I can understand that realistically we would have waited months longer for it, and that time can be better spent, that's why I actually prefer this way in light of everything else.

[Demon6324236]

I am not sure how it is illogical though. They spent a small amount of time redoing fights that no one did anymore to be relevant and threw a reward in them for people, then added a new difficulty system that we have not had before in these kinds of battles on top of it, rather than spending time to make individual battles and/or quests for each job. I mean, if you are talking about having the exact same quest for every job that's 1 thing, but that's also stupid in my opinion as this solution is because then your just spamming battles all the same, just on a different job, or on the same job for a different job's rewards.

Also, if you have some friends or LS-mates to do it with it would not be that bad, the fact that even on Normal, which is not hard at all if you have some well geared people, you can get 2 pages every time, and only need 5 a piece, that's 13 battles at most on normal for a full set. If you win lots or do higher difficulties you can get even more from it.

[Demon6324236]

Its not logical to stay in a LS if the LS is not doing anything and has no members. It sounds like you need a new LS. What I am saying is logical so far as the quests go is the fact of how they developed it, development wise it is logical to do it as they did. The fact they are harder than new jobs really sucks, but its to be expected, they are not the same as the old jobs, the same way that ToAU jobs and WotG jobs worked differently to make their AF. The difference between then and now is the fact that the level increased, and so you can expect even more changes because of that. Am I saying its 100% fair? No, I am not, I do have to work harder for my RDM RF than RUN did for its AF, yes, but that does not change the fact that I can understand that from a development point of view it was smarter to do because it saved a lot of time.

As for it being the same as the Bayld gear, its not, its attuned to your specific job, including abilities and stats you would never see on another piece, in the case of your PUP, sure, you can pick up that Bayld gear, but you will find no Maneuver bonus, no Automaton Haste, no overload reduction, and when the time comes for the next update, you will be able to upgrade your RF to 119, the highest level in the current game, where as the Bayld gear will not. The advantages are worth more than you give them credit for. I can agree with the fact it is unfair to a point, but I think you exaggerate it to much.

The real issue I have with it is that they tied it to the poor seal system at all, without fixing the seal system itself. The drop rates should not be on a timer, they should not be as low as they are, and there should be a reason to kill normal mobs. If we could get seals off anything we kill in the level range and the highest level enemies dropped it once every 2~4 kills, that would be perfect to me, the lowest level can have a drop rate of once every 8~10 kills. To me, it would be balanced, harder mobs, higher risk, much higher drop rate, and no timer rules to dictate drops, that is a bad idea from the start.

[Demon6324236]

You say I think everything is fine unless it effects my RDM, as though I have never complained about VW, WKs, Reives as a whole, the way content was outdated to the extreme, VNMs, Item levels, NNI's near total luck reliance, and so on. I have had various problems with this game in the past both with RDM and completely ignoring it. To me you seem to look at everything from the worst possible view, or are simply pessimistic with things. I know stunners who do not bot, I myself can stun without a bot, and I know of no linkshells who will force you to use one except one you mentioned, I have never heard of another that I can recall.

I am not here to defend SE nor to attack them, I am here to speak my mind on every subject I feel the need to. Do I understand your complaints? Yes, but I also understand the foolishness of some things you say too. For instance, there is no reason you can not leave the LS your in and all join a new shell, or recruit, or make a new shell and recruit if the shellholder is no longer present. Saying that you do not want to because of the memories or because of what the shell once meant is a bad reason in my opinion, I am in the fourth incarnation of a long standing Linkshell on Phoenix, it was originally ScarletRain when I joined it, becoming Convicts, ConvictsReborn, and now PuntDeTaru. Every time the name and shell changed it was because the leader either left or stepped down, as I did when it became PuntDeTaru, and one of our best members took over the shell.

I see the same pessimism in your talk about other Linkshells as I saw in your talk about Empyrean weapons, where you made it sound as though all Linkshells were ran by people lording over others forcing them to build the leader a weapon against their will in hopes of currying favor with said leader for later on. My point being, you seem unwilling to try what I am saying in fear of things which may not happen, even if they did happen, you found a bad Linkshell, why not look for another. If all Linkshells are that bad, perhaps its not the Linkshells, but rather the server of which they are located.

Another thing is you say I am acting like a cheerleader for SE, yet at the same time, part of what I am defending it seems is the community, since the community is every LS of which you seem to think is bad, and while I do not agree with any of those you have complained about, I know that all Linkshells are not like that, as I said, if they are on that server then its not only a community issue, but a server issue. In this case, I think what they did from a development viewpoint was good, it was fast, got us content we wanted, and they are upgrading it further next update so it can be some of the top gear in the game. On the other hand, from an in game viewpoint it was worse than quests, its a bit unbalanced and unfair, but it at least exists and will again, be upgraded to the point it is top tier gear.

Lastly, so far as the AF being your free option, it changed. Right now your free option is the Bayld gear, the same gear you complain about throwing away and having to buy a new set every month, that's your free gear. The RF gear right now is top tier gear, at this very moment its got some pieces which are the best you can get, and others which are not far off, once the update comes it will be top tier across the board most likely because of how item levels work.

Am I saying its perfect? No, but I do think you over-exaggerate the issue and when told to play with others who want to do it too, use your previous bad experiences with Linkshells as an excuse as to why its not fair.

[Ravenmore]

Why, the fights offer lowman groups the content they been wanting with good rewards for everyone and adjusting difficulty, you know everything the player base has been asking for. Yeah the seal system sucks but guess what there was going to some kind of road block you knew full well was coming. If there was no road block then the content would be dead. Like now you might see a couple of shouts flat out begging for the run and geo af fights but having no rewards that really matter for any one they sit in town for hours. The SCK seal fights do drop gil items plus af upgrade items and the harder fights drop more items for the upgrades so if 6 people got to together you could knock out whole sets in a couple of sittings and unlike the old af, that you were mocked for ever full timing even at the level you first got it, the RF is useful and like I said some of it is best in slot either for macro or full time. From what I have seen you don't need bots to do any of the SKC fights just people knowing how the game works.


Also guess what old endgame was massively flawed to, it wasn't ever that fun fighting the same mobs over and over for crappy drop rates and then hoping you won the lot had the most points or the leader decided it was finally your time to get your reward. It was only fun the first 2 or 3 times then it became a chore that you did cause if you skipped out you would either lose your favor with the overloards or point edge. How many hours did people put in just when it might finally be their time the LS disbanded, the leaders decided it was time to move on or people just stop showing up and the LS went from a event LS to a social.

[Demon6324236]

Addressing the idea of things being outdated in 'five weeks' real quick.

Since the day item levels were introduced, 119 so far has been the highest level gear. SE has shown they understand the players do not want it going higher, they have not made anything higher as of yet. They made the old WKs the same level as the newer WKs, which should indicate that new Delves will be the same level as old Delves. Since Delves have the highest tier of gear the current time, it would stand to reason that until they create all new content past Delve, which is likely months or more away, that level 119 will remain the dominant level. If 119 remains the highest level, RF gear will be level 119 next month, putting it at the top, not to be outdated for a long time.

What I am trying to say is, unlike other gear, this gear is confirmed to be top tier for some time following the update next month, and since the pages are gotten from SKCNMs right now, and next month is the update of which we get the other battlefields updated from the stories, I assume that means we will see the new pages for 119 coming from fights like Divine Might II and Dawn II, though I could be mistaken.

[Demon6324236]

As I said like five times already, people are doing the new BCNM in closed groups with longtime friends they can trust, and on VT mode for max drops, and they are not doing shout runs for the obvious reason of losing crests. So if you have a LS in which 50% of ppl didn't quit FFXI in protest this year, and that LS is farming the bcnm you are OK. If you don't have that, you're screwed. Theres your fair and logical system that you are waving pompoms about.So shout yourself for a party of which you do YOYD(Your Orb Your Drop). If you do that, you can get a party, do the event, and no one can complain, you can offer to use your Orb first to assure everyone that in the event of failure, you are the one losing your Crests, not them. If you are not willing to put your own Crests on the line for others, why should they be willing to do it for you? Simple answer, they shouldn't be, so unless you can do this, you can not complain others will not shout for their own either.

This again goes back to the community issue of people wanting to do events but not willing to lead them, like those who complain about RME VW shouts or Oat MNK Delve shouts, but then never make their own parties for it.


I'm glad you like it now everyone has quit the game and new AF farming excludes anyone that doesn't have a full LS.Excludes anyone who doesn't have a full LS? 6 people is a full LS? You said you had 5 right? Well, find 1 more member, your almost filled!


I hope you continue to enjoy your iLvl progression game with dwindling server numbers, as more and more people quit. Just don't ever question why those ppl are quitting, those people are WRONG because they don't have 5000 posts on a forum means their views are wrong.I forgot, where again did my post count come into this discussion as a reason my points are more valid than yours?


And that SE decisions which exclude everyone who doesn't have a full LS on a server with 400 ppl half of which are mules, SE are right to do that and those players are wrong.Ignoring the full LS thing, which was ^ there... SE are right to do that which gives us more content to do when it has been the single largest complaint for this game since SoA because the events went from, well, long list I don't feel like typing, to Reives, Skirmish, and Delve.


And as for farming bayld sets, wont happen, I will most likely join the thousands of ppl who quit this game since SOA / iLvl arrived, ppl who unlike me are not prepared to make a few comments on a forum to say what is wrong. And to face the relelntless OCD trolls on those forums too.And the troll card is played. The normal internet rules, all who oppose me are trolls, no matter their argument or its validity, the only exceptions to this being when someone is either a hater, because they use aggression in their arguments, or a cheerleader, because they do not complain about everything you do. The easiest way to deflect an argument, through the use of over used generalizing statements to attempt making another poster seem bad for their opinion. Love it.

[Ravenmore]

Why do you keep going on about the 1000SKC if you got off you butt and started the shout your self you wouldn't have to do all that leg work of farming all the seal. Only reason it was done with 18 people was the people that needed were also the ones that were under geared to start with. 6 people could down it no problem but they were also the ones that didn't need it either cause they had better or already got it. But really that was endgame 7 years ago. A piece you could use pure gil to obtain was released with Toau. I wouldn't even consider it endgame it was part of midgame.

Sky, sea, limbus, all had crappy drop rates but with the SKC system of pop while not being perfect would let you finish far faster, by you know playing with other people in a MMO. Even lowmaning those events would still take a long time to finish everyone's want list or you could take a few hours of soloing the pop set then another couple of hours DoT kiting mobs or pet swapping and risk losing it at any point to some dick that claims the NM at the last 1%.

People begged SE for the solo option too and even said they wouldn't mind if it took longer so SE game them what they asked for but it is still far faster to do it with a group that at least everyone benefits from. Really I want to see exp of the best gear that didn't involve low drop rates, only thing I can think of is AH gear and W.turban.

[Mefuki]

...people are doing the new BCNM in closed groups with longtime friends they can trust, and on VT mode for max drops...

And that's why it's so brilliant that SE is finally including difficulty level choices with the events. Scalable difficulty. Finally. I've been waiting for years for them to do this because I don't have that many people to play with anymore. Now I can go in solo or in a duo and make progress. Pick the level you think your particular group can handle, get proportionate rewards. This encourages people to group up while at the same time not leaving other people behind. Is it a little slower? Probably, but I'm ok with that. What bugged me was when SE would create an event that said to me, "You want to pick up the game and play then put it down whenever you want? Well, too bad because X event requires you to have connections and give up some sleep here, another sacrifice there. After all, you're not getting anywhere without an alliance large LS backing you up."

[Demon6324236]

Seeing as having +1 halves the cost of the upgrade via pages, you should only need a total of 500 at very most, that's also assuming you do easy or very easy for every single one and none drop from the box at the end of any of the SKCNMs you do though.

[Mefuki]

...But the current system is another bunch of roses given to multiboxers and powershells who can spam high lvl mobs and burn the bcnms on VH mode for maximum drops, so its exactly as bad as your worst Tyrant LS memories, solo players and friend-group LS are getting screwed harder than ever in this Version Update.

Actually, just the opposite. Solo players and Friend group LSs have been given the chance to participate in the battles for their AF1 +2 items. Can powershells do it faster? Yeah, probably. There's more people involved. But as it stands now smaller groups get to participate too.

This system WOULD be a bunch of roses to powershells as well as solo, friend-group unfriendly if it was a system like Legion: No scaling difficulty, all good items RARE/EX or 10s of millions of gil, Alliance mandatory, only best gear allowed.

But this? I'm just not seeing why this event is so hard on solo, friend-group LSs. It's actually quite accommodating.


But SE made a version update with RME patch materials & with AF99 upgrade path, and instead of making a smart decision to have these two version update contents follow a different path to eachother, they bundled RME and af1-99 items into the same bcnms. Enquiring minds like mine might say that was a LAZY decision on their part, like screw it we'll just make all the Version Update content drop in the same Bcnms.

I thought that was actually kind of smart of them. Now people from all "walks of life" are feeding the supply of RME mats, giving an economic boon to those who sell them and perhaps encouraging others to start their own RME. And because there are 3 different items to collect for R, M and E respectively, it further encourages trading, buying and selling. Again, the bad thing to do here would have been to make them EX and only drop from Delve fractures or <insert event here>. That would be very friend-group unfriendly.


Also they made it so a solo player, obtaining 1 piece of AF upgrade item, requires 20 SKC and as you say "pick the easy battle". I have been farming the new new rabbits in the Drifts, and here is my results. 75 kills. 3 SKC. Half the night.

I presume by this statement that you haven't been reading about the info found about these dropping. BG users are reporting a drop rate of greater than 20% and very rarely as many as 5 dropping from one monster. Check out the AF Upgrades thread on BG Forums for more information.

[Demon6324236]

In that case I agree, they could have done more, and I do not like the Seal system as a whole so you will get no complaint from me in saying they should not have used it specifically, the only thing I have been trying to say the entire time is that from a development standpoint it does make sense, and it was a good choice, they used content they already were implementing in order to fulfill the need for a way to upgrade our AF/+1 into our RF.

I can definitely say I do not like that it is though X-NM battlefields, but I do like that they are at least trying to make that system better, such as right now trying to increase the drop rate. During the event going right now the drop rate is increased, the timer removed or lowered to 1 minute, that is unsure, and the amount of drops possible is determined by the number of people in your party, from 1~6 per drop depending on the amount. To me, these are amazing ideas that can help get people not only to play together to farm but help people get people together to fight the SKCNMs themselves.

Its not perfect, but it is something, and if nothing else, like RME items, they can always add them to other things later or maybe even make more permanent adjustments to the Seal system in the future, which is why I am being a bit more patient with it, if it were not for adjustments and the event they have made, I would be with you complaining about it, but I am trying to give them a bit of time with this, they already said they plan to adjust it, and they have plans for more battlefields next update, and that the RF will be going to level 119, all of which causes me to have at least some hope, enough so that I spent 3 hours on my RDM thread explaining why at that time I think some changes should be made, and why I have been trying to defend them a bit here.

But as I said, I do agree with you that the SKCNM idea as the exclusive way to upgrade these was a bad choice.

[Demon6324236]

I presume by this statement that you haven't been reading about the info found about these dropping. BG users are reporting a drop rate of greater than 20% and very rarely as many as 5 dropping from one monster. Check out the AF Upgrades thread on BG Forums.Admittedly if that was in a party, it counts for very little, the event increases the rate and drop cap depending on the number of people in the party from what I understand, which is why solo I get a max of 1, but in a party with 4 friends yesterday I was getting 1~4. I could be wrong though, and have been just getting unlucky.

[Demon6324236]

Re; starting shouts. People are doing the bcnm in closed groups on VT mode for max drops. Nobody with enough SKC is going to waste it on /sh runs.This assumes no one else is in your situation besides you, which I think is false, and if you say you will use your own before others pop their own, it can give others a sense of security and safety when using their own, because the first run, which you supply the orb for, can allow them to see the difficulty, and chances of success. For instance if I make a group and we fail, I lost my orb, and while it sucks, at least we tried, and we learn, if others will stay we can try again, but the fact I used mine originally helped get them to come with me because I was willing to risk my own SKCs to show how we would do. I think it should work, if you try it and it doesn't, well, I am sorry, but if it does work, you have found a way to get through it easier.

I am sure others are in the same position as you are, looking for a way to get it done, but if you never shout for people and ask them you will never know, and if nothing else you could also shout for a party to farm the SKCs, making your kills faster, easier, and potentially more beneficial because of the event.

[Demon6324236]

That's great for multiboxers. Who are paying extra fees to SE every month. What a happy coincidence!This is one of the times I say you are being a pessimist... you could take your friends with you to farm and get more done, or team up with others to farm and then do the battles, rather than think of this or focus on it, you are busy complaining about how its easier for players playing multiple characters, do you see what I am getting at?

[Mefuki]

I'm referring to the zoning thing:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/118908-AF-Upgrades?p=5949089&viewfull=1#post5949089

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/118908-AF-Upgrades?p=5946541&viewfull=1#post5946541


That's great for multiboxers. Who are paying extra fees to SE every month. What a happy coincidence!

I think it's more like, "That's a great incentive to encourage people to party up but it's not mandatory to make progress."

[Demon6324236]

TBH I gonna wait until you are all farming iLvl 150 gear this time next year, and the af1-99 sets are being given away for free in log-in event.I am a bit disappointed, I really did try to help and suggest things for you to try I think would work, and instead you ignored them and chose to be pessimistic about it once more.

[detlef]

Sometimes a person is just convinced that the situation is hopeless and isn't willing to listen to reason.

[Ravenmore]

Re; starting shouts. People are doing the bcnm in closed groups on VT mode for max drops. Nobody with enough SKC is going to waste it on /sh runs.

Re; farming the SKC. I am. It will take me till 2016 to complete like 3 armor sets at this rate.

Re; old areas endgame content, we have a difference of opinion. I went the path of avoiding the big LS's, and did lowman path. Because the simpering /dancefortheLSleader path to get some drops eventually didn't interest me. I also consider farming your own haku pop, and killing that mob on 3 ppl, was endgame, it was not easy at all in 2005. And the item was relevant for five years so it can't have been junk can it. We also duo'd Xol for the Zoolater hat, after waiting for the big LS alliances to wipe horribly to him.
And yes on solo sometimes ppl tried to steal the mob on 1%, but that doesn't mean it wasn't fun to solo those hard mobs, if you like challenge and excitement. <EDIT: in 2006 January I claimed Alkyoneus on solo BST, the RMT were late to arrive as it had overlapped with another high value time pop, and their mages were still in QI running to the tower, the NM was on like 6% after absolutely ages of mad kiting and me being on like 30hp half the time, the RMT stole the NM from me, but they lacked mage support and their seven members died in less than a minute after which I got the NM back and killed it, he dropped and ice crystal btw and after he died the RMT sent me a /tell asking for a raise. I have screenshots of the battle timestamped with SE 2006 at the bottom. Gear used was bst af1 and a light staff.>
Certainly those old days endgame offered a lot more fun than farming SKC's off rabbits or watching Yumcax die slowly again for hours, if that is what you call end game then I despair.

In 2005 a group 6 good 75s could take it out and 12 75s would run it over like a pinto getting hit by a train. As for alky lol I know dozens of bst and thfs that where soloing it in 2006 wasn't that hard just like everything else that was old endgame(not like either of those mobs were considered endgame by the rest of the player base). Killing that mob solo was nothing new in fact was done all the time. Just like Avesta never being that impressive when you see another rdm do every one of his solos in half the time. Not like DoT kite is impressive, it was well known and exploited by many more then him. As soon as ToAU(well the truth was when Omega was released) came out Ohat was pretty much junk to anyone that know how to gear and hit acc cap with out it and knew to use food. It was useful from 70 to 75 after that it was replaced.

[predatory]

Stompa is right on this whole thing, and if you guys weren't looking through rosy colored glasses because wow SE just brought back RME and AF, you'd realize that there is no reason for the revamped AF or RMEs to be so insanely time consuming to get, especially considering the RMEs aren't really much stronger than Delves, and the AF is the same as Run and GEO as far as item levels. The AF should have been a forced pop nm using your old AF as the trigger, if you lost the fight you lost the AF piece, (which isn't really a big deal because they can be re-quested easy enough at 99), but if you won you get a shiny new AF piece to match Run and Geo. Well now guess what? You didn't really get any new content, but you sure got another time sink. Way to go SE rah rah rah. And you guys that are cheerleading SE on this should pull your heads out of your asses, (I think the lack of oxygen is really killing your brain cells), and think about how fucked up this really is.

Give 'em hell Stompa you are 100% on the money, don't let a few retards stop you from letting SE know just how badly they messed up

[Demon6324236]

there is no reason for the revamped AF or RMEs to be so insanely time consuming to get

You didn't really get any new content, but you sure got another time sink.Yes, they should have given us all free upgrades on our 99 RMEs instantly and then on top of that made easy NMs to kill for quests that take less than a day to do so we have our full RF and our RMEs a day or two after the update. Then for the next month we can stand around in Adoulin complaining about how we have no new content. Totally agree, awesome idea, why didn't I think of it sooner!

[Demon6324236]

People could say your making all of your stories up too ya know.

[Anjou]

http://narwhaler.com/original/b6/3/and-then-out-of-nowhere-spiderman-b63rXW.jpg

On a more serious note however, I think that the grind is a little better than just being handed out to us. Gotta work for your meals as they say.

[Ravenmore]

Hi yeah. Just stop and rewind that. You are lying. "Dozens of bst and thf were soloing alky in 2006". LIE. Thief couldn't solo Alky until SE transformed it into a pop-spawn mob, and THF/DNC was available. Old version Alky hit like a truck full of obese people, and did AOE that wiped shadows and NO amount of THF bloody bolts would keep them alive without at least some support.
I even saw several Nins and Thfs dying on that occasion when they stole the mob at 6% and they couldnt even solo it down past 4% because it hit really hard back then. You are probably confusing it with the super easy pop Alky that everyone knows from recent years.
Also you say you know dozens of Bst that solo'd it. I call BS on that too. Number one ; RMT had that mob locked down continuously, occasionally it was claimed by other LS, but normally solo players didnt stand a chance at claiming it because the gloves were 30m on the AH. You never saw BST soloing it. And if THF could solo that NM, every THF on the server would be camped in Upper Delkfutt's tower, on solo-mode, waiting for the chance to solo a 30m gil drop. The reason you never saw solo BST or solo THF hanging around UDT waiting for the mob to pop is that it was not a solo mob at all. You saw the server's biggest LS hanging round there, and the RMT shells were there all the time and they usually got the claim because of their 'enhanced claim products.' Either way, you never saw solo THF standing round UDT waiting for Alky to pop, which you certainly would seen have if any solo player with TH4 could grab Alky and solo it np. My friend Non was a premier JP thief and he would never have gone anywhere near that place on solo.
Only reason it happened to me is that I was skilling up sword (for lols) on the Jotunns and Alky popped right ontop of my head pretty much, and the RMT were downstairs hurrying up. And back then all BST were uniform-gear, AF/relic charm sets, light staves. Forget melee that NM, we didn't have snarl ability back then. Was a straight charm fight. So my experience is uniform for what any other BST would have experienced, ie. winning by sheer luck and getting PTSD and being on like 10hp half the time. Thats not a strat that people can use as a regular tecnique. Old version alky was taking out Courrier Carrie jugpets in 4-5 hits. He was taking out the bats I charmed in like 6~ hits too. I beat him by pure luck as it happens, it is not possible to cast cure often up there because of the magic jugs, so I was kiting him on like 10% of my hp most of the time. It is not an orthodox BST vs. NM fight and on my LS (a BST LS) I was the only person that did it and I freely admit that I won by luck. The RMT who wiped 7/7 (including several THF and nin) actually said it was a big achievement, coz they watched me kiting him for the last 8%~. Anyway I never met another BST that solo'd him back then, and technically THF would have been impossible back then just because of the damage output and you not having /dnc even. Anyway, say what you want, we know you're making it up as you go along now.
Also re; Avesta, its really easy to look back in hindsight and say "oh anyone could do that stuff" but in truth most people really couldn't, and if they had been able to f.ex solo ODS on Blm75 you would have seen videos of them doing it online. Avesta was a true & very humble legend and was my great honour to even meet him on Remora. But now that everyone is 99 with ilvl-w/e gear and millions of stats on everything, they can talk about how easy it was to do stuff back then, even though mysteriously only Avesta and a few others actually put out videos of them doing that stuff, which is surprising because if everyone was doing that stuff you'd expect to have seen the thousands of videos online.

LOL guess some one never freaking heard Bloody bolts. Thfs have fairly good marksmanship and high enough to land status bolts easy. Thfs have really high eva then stack eva gear on top of it with /nin and bolts and it was done a lot.

People did what he did all the time and faster at that. He was nothing special. No you wouldn't expect it since it wasn't all that impressive. Tickling a mob to death over a couple hours was a sure fire way to P** off every sky/hnm LS on your server and make you a target of griefing so why would anyone put them selves out there like that. You forget the server was a small play ground and people knew you and you couldn't run away yet to a new server unless you started over.

[Anjou]

Personally I could care less whether or not a story holds water. The fact of the matter, is that yes people thought their RME's were getting their deserved upgrade, but no turns out there's one more grind fest. This game was sadly never meant to be easy, nor was it meant to be fair. What makes me uneasy however, is the lack of information until before the update hits, as people had no time to even get things prepared.

All in all, we can have all the great updates monthly like the system is gonna be now, but tbh I'd rather talk to the devs and establish a good communication system so we're not left in the dark anymore like we have been, and then listen to this on the forums.

Af armor I like, but not something I'll -immediately- prioritize, as there's other options to use. But you can bet your hind end that I'll eventually get to it, I just don't wanna burn myself out trying to get it all at once, what's the point of a game if we got it all? Not only that, but farming crests is a pain.

[Ravenmore]

Personally I could care less whether or not a story holds water. The fact of the matter, is that yes people thought their RME's were getting their deserved upgrade, but no turns out there's one more grind fest. This game was sadly never meant to be easy, nor was it meant to be fair. What makes me uneasy however, is the lack of information until before the update hits, as people had no time to even get things prepared.

All in all, we can have all the great updates monthly like the system is gonna be now, but tbh I'd rather talk to the devs and establish a good communication system so we're not left in the dark anymore like we have been, and then listen to this on the forums.

Af armor I like, but not something I'll -immediately- prioritize, as there's other options to use. But you can bet your hind end that I'll eventually get to it, I just don't wanna burn myself out trying to get it all at once, what's the point of a game if we got it all? Not only that, but farming crests is a pain.

Frankly the amount of communication we have now is light years ahead of what we had back in the good old days. Anyone that wasn't expecting another grind for their REMs were kidding them selves. It's a MMO based off a JRPG these things are to be expected. Could have been much worse they could had put the items in dyna on one NM or made them also drop off ADL. Also it would be down right stupid to give out that information before hand no mmo dev does that it is quit simple why they wouldn't.

They have been listening how do you think we got here. People whined at how easy abyssea was and they wanted alliance based content back then we got VW. They complained and said they wanted a point based system that you could grind to the rewards, that is what we got in delve. Beat a NM once then you could buy it's drops with plasma or if you got lucky got it direct drop. After that people were complaining about not having the grind anymore saying how they missed old endgame well we got the grind back but they also whined about lock outs so they had to put up another type of road block(don't even kid your self all MMOs are about slowing you down to extend content life).

Many my self included hated how far ahead REMs were(mainly relics for me, they were far to common to have such a large lead) and they listen and relics are about 5% head of delve boss drops. Then we had the stat vomit that is on all the new gear, another item the player base on this forum begged for, remember all the gear swapping hate people were throwing around. Finally what lead to the ilvl was people were saying how sick they were of the sidegrade gear at 75 and in VW once we hit 99..

[predatory]

Yes, they should have given us all free upgrades on our 99 RMEs instantly and then on top of that made easy NMs to kill for quests that take less than a day to do so we have our full RF and our RMEs a day or two after the update. Then for the next month we can stand around in Adoulin complaining about how we have no new content. Totally agree, awesome idea, why didn't I think of it sooner!

This update only brought a few if any back to upgrade those items, and more than a few that are left are pissed off about this fuckarow, so go ahead stand there and cheer SE on as the game dies around you, and pretty soon you can be on a server of one, and then you can happily cheer away every decision they make by yourself

[Dragoy]

Figured I'd post my experiences on our first try on the new Kindred Spirits battlefield, and I'll quote the following for some reference.


Have you done the new BCNM? There have different difficulty levels. Normal was a joke it probably can be beat with 2 or 3 people. Took 6 people and destroyed it on normal the mobs hardly hit for any damage at all. Really only level 4 or 5 are very challenging and require a full group.

I haven't done easy or very easy but I assume they are soloable. There is your solo option.

If you only have a small number of people, do 2 normal mode bcnm instead of going for level 5. You get 3 drops from level 3, 5 drops from level 5, but level 3 is so easy you can easily low man it.

A group of 4 got defeated in about 20 seconds on normal difficulty (WHM, GEO, SAM, RUN).

Geomancer and Runefencer have their artifact equipment, no stuff from Skirmish nor Menace Inspection. Samurai and White Mage only have Empyrean +2 slash Salvage II equipment.

I guess I'm not going to upgrade them weapons this way, at least not for a while. :D

(I'd still like to get some artifact armour, so perhaps very easy is the thing to try next...)

[Ravenmore]

Why even try that set up knowing full well you had players (your main DD sam) under geared and no where near ready to take it on. both run and geo may had been wasted slots as well. So it's worth little to show how the fights are.

[detlef]

Going in with no crowd control and undergeared DDs is no way to go through life.

[Dragoy]

Ravenmore, detlef,

Simply to see what it is like.

That's the way we do things; experiment with some trial here and error there, while also having some fun. It's quite difficult to gauge from reading only about people doing it with more current equipment. In this scenario, the SAM and WHM have no access to Adōulin at all, which sets its own kind of a challenge to it.
That said, the fight did go pretty much how I expected it to go, and we should have gone with very easy for starters. Perhaps we'll last 30 seconds there!

For what it's worth, I do realise that posting about such experiences might not prove to be useful to many, and that our set-up is what it is, so I apologise to those who might feel offended by it; 'tis certainly not intended. ^^

The intention was to expand upon the view(s) on the battlefield(s) a little bit at least.


Thank you for your input.

[detlef]

I'm just saying that you had to know that the new BC would simply be a harder version of old BC, so you would've known before entering that there would be multiple mobs that would need to be dealt with. It just sounds like you didn't even have a plan.

[Demon6324236]

This update only brought a few if any back to upgrade those items, and more than a few that are left are pissed off about this fuckarow, so go ahead stand there and cheer SE on as the game dies around you, and pretty soon you can be on a server of one, and then you can happily cheer away every decision they make by yourselfIf more fools and lazy people want to leave or stay gone I will be happy, to many people stand around as is... The thing is, people haven't done the math, when we get updates, we get a certain amount of stuff, more RMEs = less content, more AF = less content, had they implemented those easily, we would have the new WK to do right now, that's the entirety of what everyone would do, nothing else is new unless you count PvM from Monstrosity. In order to make up for that lack of content/'shit to do' I am perfectly fine with RMEs taking a bit more work and RF gear taking some time to obtain.

[MarkovChain]

Just did a very difficult mode SKC10, dropped 1 single and one parcel of beitetsu. The bad news is that boxes still don't seem to drop, the good news is that SKCx10 is fairly easy to farm especially now, though TBH matamata spam is much faster and easier ...

[Dragoy]

I'm just saying that you had to know that the new BC would simply be a harder version of old BC,

Perhaps, had I ever tried the old version. :D

I really used all my crests while helping with black belt items, so I never happened to do that one.


so you would've known before entering that there would be multiple mobs that would need to be dealt with.

You got me there. I did know what there would be, but I guess I had more important things to find out about than actually having a sane plan (or I was too lazy to think about jobs and whatnots).


It just sounds like you didn't even have a plan.

I didn't, really! Given I did not even do the old battlefield, I really had no idea except for the few comments by other people I happeend to see. All I knew was the number of enemies, and their likely patterns in behaviour. What I didn't really have any idea of, was probably the most important part: how hard would they hit me.

We know now, and I can better (I feel) plan on it for the next time I try, whenever that may be. ^^

[Ravenmore]

Ravenmore, detlef,

Simply to see what it is like.

That's the way we do things; experiment with some trial here and error there, while also having some fun. It's quite difficult to gauge from reading only about people doing it with more current equipment. In this scenario, the SAM and WHM have no access to Adōulin at all, which sets its own kind of a challenge to it.
That said, the fight did go pretty much how I expected it to go, and we should have gone with very easy for starters. Perhaps we'll last 30 seconds there!

For what it's worth, I do realise that posting about such experiences might not prove to be useful to many, and that our set-up is what it is, so I apologise to those who might feel offended by it; 'tis certainly not intended. ^^

The intention was to expand upon the view(s) on the battlefield(s) a little bit at least.


Thank you for your input.

Sorry after reading the dribble about how unfair it all is from others, I should have sugar coated that a little better. The ilvl and amount of def skirmish or bayld gear offers you could handle that it if you swapped out the run for a little better DD or just added another dd to it. Geo might be able to handle the crowd control but I wouldn't stake the SKCs on it till you had more practice with the fight.

[detlef]

Perhaps, had I ever tried the old version. :D

I really used all my crests while helping with black belt items, so I never happened to do that one.



You got me there. I did know what there would be, but I guess I had more important things to find out about than actually having a sane plan (or I was too lazy to think about jobs and whatnots).



I didn't, really! Given I did not even do the old battlefield, I really had no idea except for the few comments by other people I happeend to see. All I knew was the number of enemies, and their likely patterns in behaviour. What I didn't really have any idea of, was probably the most important part: how hard would they hit me.

We know now, and I can better (I feel) plan on it for the next time I try, whenever that may be. ^^I'm sorry, I shouldn't be so critical. I've never done the old battlefield either. In the future, you can check the wiki for at least a guide to the old, easy version of the BC:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Kindred_Spirits

Then at least you'll know how many mobs you'll have to deal with and what types they will be. You'll have an idea of which NMs you should target first. So that's something to keep in mind for the next time.

[Zumi]

Ravenmore, detlef,

Simply to see what it is like.

That's the way we do things; experiment with some trial here and error there, while also having some fun. It's quite difficult to gauge from reading only about people doing it with more current equipment. In this scenario, the SAM and WHM have no access to Adōulin at all, which sets its own kind of a challenge to it.
That said, the fight did go pretty much how I expected it to go, and we should have gone with very easy for starters. Perhaps we'll last 30 seconds there!

For what it's worth, I do realise that posting about such experiences might not prove to be useful to many, and that our set-up is what it is, so I apologise to those who might feel offended by it; 'tis certainly not intended. ^^

The intention was to expand upon the view(s) on the battlefield(s) a little bit at least.


Thank you for your input.

My experience with people who have all delve/delve boss gear, skirmish 2 was that the mobs just missed most of the time and they destroyed them very quickly on normal.

[Demon6324236]

Well that's the thing, I am guessing level wise it goes something close to this...

Very Easy = 99
Easy = 106
Normal = 109
Hard = 113
Very Hard = 119

I think this is how its setup because of them being the most common levels. So since most of that party sounds like it was in Pre-SoA gear, it should have been fighting VE, maybe at most, E, and its no wonder N beat em down so easy.

[Zumi]

Those fools and lazy people are paying subs which are keeping the game online, for geniuses and workaholics like you. You should literally feel sad every time somebody quits FFXI because theres like 400/server, currently enjoying a post-update/ pre-Christmas revival to 700~ per server, its still a fraction of how many people played the game when the game was popular and immersive. If somebody actually makes a new online RPG that doesn't suck, this game will lose a lot more players and you will wish that the "fools and lazy people" were still here paying subs so the game would stay online.
Also its not only fools and lazy ppl quitting the game, about 25% of my JP friends have quit post SoA including some of the most intense high-speed gamers I ever met, and smart professionals, who were happy to farm mountains of baskets in Oztroya[s] 2008~ for a shot at the lol-hat in the BC, but were not happy to run endlessly in a self-immolating SoA ilvl gearwheel. You should really be grateful for all subscribers at this point, especially if SE keep throwing "farm 1000 hours of crests for an AF set" updates at people.

I just saw several BCNM shouts today and they weren't requiring people to have an orb. Which means if you join shout group you get personal drops and you can finish that way.

[Dragoy]

Sorry after reading the dribble about how unfair it all is from others, I should have sugar coated that a little better. The ilvl and amount of def skirmish or bayld gear offers you could handle that it if you swapped out the run for a little better DD or just added another dd to it. Geo might be able to handle the crowd control but I wouldn't stake the SKCs on it till you had more practice with the fight.

I have no doubt the Skirmish and Bayld stuff would help (the black mage demon was dealing around 400-500 points of damage with just melee to the samurai without any defence boost etc.), but they're not an option at this time for the two.

Next time will be different fer sure!


I'm sorry, I shouldn't be so critical. I've never done the old battlefield either. In the future, you can check the wiki for at least a guide to the old, easy version of the BC:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Kindred_Spirits

Then at least you'll know how many mobs you'll have to deal with and what types they will be. You'll have an idea of which NMs you should target first. So that's something to keep in mind for the next time.

I don't mind critique. ^^

And that's a great idea indeed. I did mention I knew what to expect in numbers and behaviour of the monsters, just I didn't know how much above us they would be in level, at normal difficulty. I expected it to be around Bayld equipment level perhaps, and I suppose that's not too far off the mark.

Why would we still do it? Well, a friend wanted to try, and so did I, I guess, and the other two are not consulted upon such trifles. D:

I've been editing that Wikia wikki since 2009 or so, though less after the founders left it, but I still know my way around there. I maybe think.

Many thanks for the suggestion(s)! =)


My experience with people who have all delve/delve boss gear, skirmish 2 was that the mobs just missed most of the time and they destroyed them very quickly on normal.

Thanks for following up on that!


Well that's the thing, I am guessing level wise it goes something close to this...

Very Easy = 99
Easy = 106
Normal = 109
Hard = 113
Very Hard = 119

I think this is how its setup because of them being the most common levels. So since most of that party sounds like it was in Pre-SoA gear, it should have been fighting VE, maybe at most, E, and its no wonder N beat em down so easy.

Indeed.


It was a silly test run, poking at a monster the size of a crag with a stick... without any socks on.

[Mefuki]

...but were not happy to run endlessly in a self-immolating SoA ilvl gearwheel.

I notice you keep mentioning iLevel in your posts. I have yet to run into a person who doesn't think iLevel was/is a terrible idea. That's not the sticking point with me. Everyone knows lateral, "sidegrade" gear is what this game needs right now. And based on what one Dev post said, SE seems to be realizing that as well. Good for them because we can all agree that the level of power creep this game as undergone just this year alone is completely unsustainable, long-term.
*Insert obligitory Power Creep Ep of Extra Credits, as it's almost an exact analogy over why FFXI's old system (with it's MUCH better handling of "incomparables") was so effective*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

The main problem I'm having is people saying that the RME and AF1 +2 upgrade methods are unreasonable when it's really not. Not if you've already spent time getting a 99 RME or do research and take advantage of said research to get your SKC. Because now we're in a position where FFXI vets like Byrth, Sylow and Jinjo have already completed the trials and, according to one FFXIAH thread, are wondering what to do now, meanwhile other people on the OF want RME mats to be added Colonization Reives...I mean, what do you want here? Because it seems to me that SE just can't win even when they do what we ask them.

We wanted RME to matter both for personal and game heath reasons, that's what we got. And now we complain we want automatic upgrades? When we're already seeing people completing these trials?

We wanted to use our AF again, that's what we got. And now we complain that we can't immediately transfer our Beastmen and Kindred seals into SKC? When the stockpile of BS and KS is so high (I personally have a little over 1000 of each)? Maybe it was a good idea to give us a reason to actually kill all those monsters that they put in Adoulin areas. Plus, if you followed the link I provided a few posts back, apparently there are ways to getting SKC at a somewhat decent pace. Now, if it turns out that what we see as a mechanic is actually a glitch or something, I'd be more willing to bend on this point but given the information we have, it doesn't seem that unreasonable and it's a system where everyone can have a chance to get upgrades and play content, whether you're an alliance sized LS or a solo, lowman group.

[detlef]

The main problem I'm having is people saying that the RME and AF1 +2 upgrade methods are unreasonable when it's really not. Not if you've already spent time getting a 99 RME or do research and take advantage of said research to get your SKC. Because now we're in a position where FFXI vets like Byrth, Sylow and Jinjo have already completed the trials and, according to one FFXIAH thread, are wondering what to do now, meanwhile other people on the OF want RME mats to be added Colonization Reives...I mean, what do you want here? Because it seems to me that SE just can't win even when they do what we ask them.Yeah, I posted that. And it's not for the reason you think.

It's not that I think the RME trial should be easier. I just think that the healthiest situation is for RME items to be accessible to anyone. Adding them to reives (as in my example) would give even the most casual players another thing to sell. Likewise, I think that the drop rate in WKR should be carefully considered such that they are plentiful enough to keep players coming back even if they are the sole incentive to participate.

Basically I'm saying that these items should be used as an incentive to do events, especially server-wide events that anybody can participate in.

[Zumi]

The double-negative at the start of that post confuses me a bit, "have yet to meet a person who doesn't think ilvl is a terrible idea" <paraphrased> so you are saying you haven't met a person who thinks ilvl was a good idea.
Assuming you meant the opposite, that everyone you meet loves iLvl, which would chime with the rest of your post, obviously two factors ; A) this forum has had hundreds of posters saying iLvl is a terrible idea, B) a lot of people quit the game without posting their reasons on Forums or going around ingame chatting to people about it.
The RME patch doesn't affect me at all, as I don't own a RME, because I spent most of the last 9 years helping thousands of LS members with mundane Cinderella chore type stuff over and over and over, using my time and gil for LS events, and obviously when you build RME you need to devote your time and money to that. I was able to build around 25 magian99s and four Woepath empys, because those take less time/no money compared to RME's. All of the magian 99 which SE decided to not included in their iLvl game, or offer upgrade paths for. So we have the laughable situation where SoA bayld/conquest points weaps are more powerful than magians/woepaths that took months of farming to build. So the ilvl system you are so happy with doesn't apply to existing lvl99 weapons that people worked hard for as recently as last year. As I said 100x I would have been happy if I could just hit mobs in SoA with my magians and woepaths. Sadly SE ignored those requests and instead nerfed the hard-earned woepaths into a trial weapon, while continuing to hand out lvl 115 weapons in WKR for just hanging around and hitting NQ mobs for a few hours, not even needing to touch the Boss NM. A lot of magian/woepath owners have quit ffxi over this situation where their magians have been put in the trashcan by SE and immensely powerful weaps have been given 115 lvl and can be obtained in an hour or two.
Re; what did I want etc. well from SoA I was hoping for new areas, quests missions battlefields etc., Campaign/Besieged style events with NPC Soldiers/Generals/Hero Mercenaries who are involved in the actual regional storyline and who join you in battlefields, and for the enemies in those events to be actual enemy soldiers / generals / NMs like in Campaign, as opposed to lots of base template rabbit mobs from 2003 and some base chapulis etc. I was hoping for pop NM's. And free-roaming NM's. SoA has nothing like that, the NM's are all locked into alliance based lagfests like WKR, which go on for hours and are extremely dull and unmotivating.
I think af1 could have gone up to lvl90, available via a quest/storyline/pop-NM process, to use as situational swapout pieces to use with existing relic+2/af3+2 and new SoA armors. But that the gear cap would have remained 99. And for new armors weaps to drop in Soa, which were say 10% more powerful than exisitng pre-Soa gear. And a new RME-type weapon building system in SoA, to give an alternative to ppl who couldnt get on the mythic bus in time etc. a new form of power weapon. And for those weapons to take the same amount of time etc. as RME's.
I think iLvl was pointless, as lvl 90-99 gear plus new 99 stuff from SoA was fine, we just needed new battlefields and areas to use the existing gear in.
^^
The problem is your in the minority. Most people did to r/m/e weapons because they weren't that hard to do after all the nerfs to dynamis and how easy abyssea became after the 99 cap.

And Since they added skill to ilvl weapons this was a huge nerf to delve let the casual players able to kill bosses. It sounds like you want to sit around with your old gear not wanting to do anything but wanting SE to automatically make it the BiS. Personally I didn't know anyone that did a bunch of magian weapons because they weren't the best. A lot of WoE or Magian took longer then making a empyrean.

The old stuff was good for the old content. Now we have new content and its time to upgrade your gear.

[Mefuki]

The double-negative at the start of that post confuses me a bit, "have yet to meet a person who doesn't think ilvl is a terrible idea" <paraphrased> so you are saying you haven't met a person who thinks ilvl was a good idea.

My apologies. I try to be as coherent as I can when I post. That's why a lot of my posts have "last edited" marks, I'm constantly making minor adjustments or spelling/grammar fixes for clarity.

That said, I think if you read the rest of that paragraph I think you'll get the idea I was trying to convey. I was trying to say that no one is debating iLvl is terrible (that I'm aware of), so bringing it up is a little bit of a red herring when we're talking about the "fairness" of RME upgrading.

---

I notice you keep mentioning iLevel in your posts. No one is debating iLvl is terrible. That's not the sticking point with me. Everyone knows lateral, "sidegrade" gear is what this game needs right now. And based on what one Dev post said, SE seems to be realizing that as well. Good for them because we can all agree that the level of power creep this game as undergone just this year alone is completely unsustainable, long-term.
*Insert obligitory Power Creep Ep of Extra Credits, as it's almost an exact analogy on why FFXI's old system (with it's MUCH better handling of "incomparables") was so effective*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

---


Yeah, I posted that. And it's not for the reason you think.

It's not that I think the RME trial should be easier. I just think that the healthiest situation is for RME items to be accessible to anyone. Adding them to reives (as in my example) would give even the most casual players another thing to sell. Likewise, I think that the drop rate in WKR should be carefully considered such that they are plentiful enough to keep players coming back even if they are the sole incentive to participate.

Basically I'm saying that these items should be used as an incentive to do events, especially server-wide events that anybody can participate in.

Your point is well taken and I agree. Which is why I was so pleased (and figured everyone else would be) at the fact that RME mats drop from various places and are sellable. Now, anybody can make Gil (read: points) to get them that way or get them while get your AF1 +2 upgrades or doing WK reives or fighting Delve NM's outside the fracture or doing the fracture itself or a little bit of all of those things. I think, given how many already exist, it's entirely reasonable to keep things as they are.

[Okipuit]

Greetings,

Similar to some of the other high level content, we will be looking into having the content level displayed for the high-tier seal battlefields as well.

In case you are curious about the current content level, when selecting “normal” difficulty, microcosmic orbs are content level 107 and macrocosmic orbs are content level 109.

[Damane]

I notice you keep mentioning iLevel in your posts. I have yet to run into a person who doesn't think iLevel was/is a terrible idea. That's not the sticking point with me. Everyone knows lateral, "sidegrade" gear is what this game needs right now. And based on what one Dev post said, SE seems to be realizing that as well. Good for them because we can all agree that the level of power creep this game as undergone just this year alone is completely unsustainable, long-term.
*Insert obligitory Power Creep Ep of Extra Credits, as it's almost an exact analogy over why FFXI's old system (with it's MUCH better handling of "incomparables") was so effective*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

The main problem I'm having is people saying that the RME and AF1 +2 upgrade methods are unreasonable when it's really not. Not if you've already spent time getting a 99 RME or do research and take advantage of said research to get your SKC. Because now we're in a position where FFXI vets like Byrth, Sylow and Jinjo have already completed the trials and, according to one FFXIAH thread, are wondering what to do now, meanwhile other people on the OF want RME mats to be added Colonization Reives...I mean, what do you want here? Because it seems to me that SE just can't win even when they do what we ask them.

We wanted RME to matter both for personal and game heath reasons, that's what we got. And now we complain we want automatic upgrades? When we're already seeing people completing these trials?

We wanted to use our AF again, that's what we got. And now we complain that we can't immediately transfer our Beastmen and Kindred seals into SKC? When the stockpile of BS and KS is so high (I personally have a little over 1000 of each)? Maybe it was a good idea to give us a reason to actually kill all those monsters that they put in Adoulin areas. Plus, if you followed the link I provided a few posts back, apparently there are ways to getting SKC at a somewhat decent pace. Now, if it turns out that what we see as a mechanic is actually a glitch or something, I'd be more willing to bend on this point but given the information we have, it doesn't seem that unreasonable and it's a system where everyone can have a chance to get upgrades and play content, whether you're an alliance sized LS or a solo, lowman group.

I wasnt sure if I should comment on anything because I am tired, but anyway. My relic (Bravura) was done like 6 years ago, I am sitting now basicly on a almost finished mythic (just have to turn items/alex etc. in and do assaults once I pick a weapon which isnt happening).
the RME upgrade is garbage, because there is no way to solo at least some of it. I am not saying I am not makeing progress, infact I am, did like 5 evenings of RME upgrade item farming with some friends and we split everythign up at the end. I am sitting at ~50 upgrade items in 10 hours thats ok. However those arent all plutons, i only need plutons but I have mythic and empy upgrade items I have no need for at the moment, so infact I have only 34 plutons (2 weeks of farming). so i should be finished at this rate iiiiin 6 months
... oh god where am I going with this lets make it simple

I am TIRED. tired of trying to catch the carrot SE has put in front of us for the last 7 months. I am caped on delve gear and skirmish gear (at least what I wanted) etc. but I am just TIRED of running out every 1-2 months to upgrade basicly ALL of my gear because it all got obsolete after 1 month.
I dont have anymore the time/freetime to put so much effort into a relic/mythic to finish it in 2 weeks, nor do I have the motivation.
I am TIRED of chasing after things that should be so easily accessable, like the new BCNMs for AF upgrades.
I am TIRED of artificial cockblocks of not adding any way to trade your old seals into new seals
I am TIRED of haveing to work for my finished Relic AGAIN on an event I am totally sick off, because I spammed the hell out of it before. I would rather do the new BCNMs for it, but see one line up "artificial cockblocks".
I am TIRED to go and replace all my equipment for 5 jobs after each months
I am TIRED of not being able to enjoy this game because of bullshit that blocks your road and is total bogus. The transportation system is garbage, running through new zones is sometimes garbage due to reives I DO NOT want to join, going to some places is garbage. I am looseing time for nothing.
I am TIRED and I really dont have anymore the time for this.

I think i should just quit.

I am ageing, the game is ageing too, my priorities/freetime changes. The game isnt adjusting very well to that and I find myself less and less able to adjust to the game, which imho i shouldnt do so I should just stop.

EDIT: i forgot to mention that my 5 main jobs are WAR COR BLU SCH WHM which basicly share little to no common gear together.

[Karah]

I am TIRED of artificial and arbitrary c-blocks
I am TIRED of having to work for my finished Relic AGAIN on an event I am totally sick off, because I spammed the hell out of it before.


I just realllllly wanted to echo these sentiments.

Was sick of delve the day they created it, continued to be sick of it, and now absolutely disgusted by the mere thought of it.

[Claudeus]

Dear SE Devs,

I haven't heard anything about Gungnir being fixed in regards to defense down procs, or making it stack with angon etc.

SE officially stated that they have taken care of issues with certain other weapons (Excal enspell > added effect case), but they have not mentioned anything about doing anything about Gungnir.

If it's not too much to ask, it would be great if they would also look into the Aftermath and Geirskogul WS, to make this a realistic option to keep an AM effect up.

I know this horse has been beaten to death plenty, and nothing has happened as of yet. This is my first post on the forum, and I sincerely hope the Devs will make a reply in regards to issues related to Gungnir.

If they would add more whollop to my polearm and fix the current issues, which I am upgrading to 119 regardless, it would make this subscribing player very happy :)

[Sapphires]

After playing a bit more with this update and tempering my initial emotional reaction to it, some feedback to the dev:

As for the RME upgrade item, I am 70/300 and a majority of them are farmed, I am admittedly impatient and not too great at making gil quickly and am rather poor at the moment :p However, I think this quest to upgrade is a rather fair one since they plan to keep upgrading the weapons into the future. There is no sense of accomplishment without effort in this game, so while its initially disappointing that the upgrade was not 'free', the materials arent impossible to find/farm/buy for even casual player.

RME material dropping from new SKC battles and WKR was a good idea, and I also like that 6 person group can kill outside delve NM for these item too.

my thoughts on SKC and new AF:

+ The addition of a new SKC seal and more drops with larger party size was good, it got players to team up to a full party instead of solo grinding. They only come from higher level monster so it reinforced teamwork.
Its possible as a 6 person group to divide the work of simultaneously farming delve NM outside for RME upgrade materials, with 1 person continuously farming normal zone monster to gather SKC/HKC/KC +delve NM pop item for all member. My friends and I find the current time/reward for this very enjoyable.

As a nice side effect of the above situation, and the introduction of the new iLevel 109 Artifact armor, we've been able to make a few SKC orbs and make some of the new armor. I thought it was a nice touch that the upgrade required rare and often unused materials that were obtainable through doing older content (malboro fiber coming from Byakko for example to make AF 109 bodies). Also a shortcut reward path for using AF1+1 to make the new body using less chapter pages gave us a good reason to go back to limbus. Although that older content is very easy to do, its a bit of quick and easy fun and alot of us never made AF1+1 pieces.

One of my favorite part with the new SKC 20 fights is that all participating member can get upgrade chapter pages as personal reward item while there still being a common loot pool to share. This fixed alot of the problem with trying to get 6 player to do bcnm style fight, which was coming up with a reward for all participant for a group if only 1 or 2 player had enough seal/crest for an orb.

While some may find these aspects annoying or inconvenient, I am much more optimistic about future updates since this update created alot of different activity options for players to do and incentivized teaming-up for mutual reward.

[FallenE]

NEVER | REM 300 | FORGET

[Karah]

The only comment I can really give about 119, why I'm so disappointed. Is that the items are like everything else, buyable.

Morons with more gil than skill/brains/talent/abilty/whatever, instantly obtain it, and have no clue how to use it. It's pretty disgusting to me at least.

If you had made the plutons boulders and beitetsu drop into inventories with Ex tags, like the new pages for reforges, then I'd be a lot less inclined to hate it.

I realize money makes the world turn (even fake ones) but just once, it'd be nice to see people who're actually good at their job get rewarded, instead of he who bots longest.

[MarkovChain]

Gathering gil is a large part of the game, so I'd say that if you are rich it's largely a matter of skill.

[Karah]

No, just no.

The only "skill" to being rich is having an alarm on your fishbot and being able to wake up when it goes off.

You're the 1% of 1% that obtained gil via other methods than haks. Though I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if you didn't have one as well...

Though most of your gil did come from selling to fishbots so.... technicalities.

[Byrth]

If you have gil then you are a proxy-botter because a large fraction of the gil in the economy came from fishbots. Heard it here first, everyone.


I have 2x 119s and 0 fishbots. I still slowly grind away towards 110 fishing on Cave Cherax with my Ebisu's when I'm super bored, but I'm not even 101 yet. It's just a matter of doing new content when people are still paying good gil for drops. I made millions and millions of gil doing CoP Dynamis for forgotten items when it was release. Recently the new BCNMs have been a similarly substantial gil stream. Legato Daggers for 7mil, selling the other terrible weapons for 1-2mil, etc.

[dragmagi]

Dear SE Devs,

I haven't heard anything about Gungnir being fixed in regards to defense down procs, or making it stack with angon etc.

SE officially stated that they have taken care of issues with certain other weapons (Excal enspell > added effect case), but they have not mentioned anything about doing anything about Gungnir.

If it's not too much to ask, it would be great if they would also look into the Aftermath and Geirskogul WS, to make this a realistic option to keep an AM effect up.

I know this horse has been beaten to death plenty, and nothing has happened as of yet. This is my first post on the forum, and I sincerely hope the Devs will make a reply in regards to issues related to Gungnir.

If they would add more whollop to my polearm and fix the current issues, which I am upgrading to 119 regardless, it would make this subscribing player very happy :)
You forgot about the agi based WS.

[Karah]

If you have gil then you are a proxy-botter because a large fraction of the gil in the economy came from fishbots.

More or less, but argue if you will, it's irrelevant.

If people couldn't bot gil, then prices wouldn't be superoverinflated etcetcetcetc

And if I had wheels I'd be a wagon.

The only point I wanted to make is not EVERYTHING should be buyable, one(big) thing in the entire game that was earned by your own merit and not your gil flow would be a nice change of pace.

[Anjou]

The only point I wanted to make is not EVERYTHING should be buyable, one(big) thing in the entire game that was earned by your own merit and not your gil flow would be a nice change of pace.

I really can agree with this to some extent, yeah you gotta work for your meals as they say, but then there'll be people who just get their friend to do all the work, then is it -really- earning it?

[Claudeus]

Dear SE Devs,

I haven't heard anything about Gungnir being fixed in regards to defense down procs, or making it stack with angon etc.

SE officially stated that they have taken care of issues with certain other weapons (Excal enspell > added effect case), but they have not mentioned anything about doing anything about Gungnir.

If it's not too much to ask, it would be great if they would also look into the Aftermath and Geirskogul WS, to make this a realistic option to keep an AM effect up.

I know this horse has been beaten to death plenty, and nothing has happened as of yet. This is my first post on the forum, and I sincerely hope the Devs will make a reply in regards to issues related to Gungnir.

If they would add more whollop to my polearm and fix the current issues, which I am upgrading to 119 regardless, it would make this subscribing player very happy :)


You forgot about the agi based WS.

Yes indeed. Geirskogul's AGI mod is just a slap in the face. I really hope to see a response in regards to their plans to implement a fix to Gungnir. Or even if there is a plan :)

[Minikom]

give ppl new reasons to do old content, add plutons to dynamis areas, example, 1/5 on drop rate when mob was proced, add the mythic one to salvage, they reducing the number needed to enter soon, should be ppl motivation to farm thier own items, since this work diferently comparated with dynamis, nm can drop 100% the item, megaboss or boss 100% drop on case, alex market will increase and alex will price will drop, more ppl can complete thier mythics. Riftborns could be hardeest ones to get, add to VW is good idea but we know already drop rates here and no one cares about VWs basically that is dead and wont raise again. add or lmbus o einherjar i dont know, lv 119 iweapon wasnt supposed to get hard to get and i remember what SE said that they were doing nothing similar to ADL items where ppl need a gruop to complete this stage, items shouldnt be bazzarable.

[Ravenmore]

give ppl new reasons to do old content, add plutons to dynamis areas, example, 1/5 on drop rate when mob was proced, add the mythic one to salvage, they reducing the number needed to enter soon, should be ppl motivation to farm thier own items, since this work diferently comparated with dynamis, nm can drop 100% the item, megaboss or boss 100% drop on case, alex market will increase and alex will price will drop, more ppl can complete thier mythics. Riftborns could be hardeest ones to get, add to VW is good idea but we know already drop rates here and no one cares about VWs basically that is dead and wont raise again. add or lmbus o einherjar i dont know, lv 119 iweapon wasnt supposed to get hard to get and i remember what SE said that they were doing nothing similar to ADL items where ppl need a gruop to complete this stage, items shouldnt be bazzarable.

Nothing is hard about it. Really there are so many ways to make gil. With relics again(well the ones that were good to start) on top people have been finishing them prices are going back up alex will soon be a easy way to make gil, good old stand by's ,not to mention the items needed for the latest stage are coming into the market at a fast pace thanks to wkr and skc. I don't remember ever seeing SE say anything about not needing a group to do the content that the items would drop from. Most I seen was them saying it wouldn't only be one large fight that needed 18 people.

I really think it is perfect the way it is now. It is the proper way to restore relics to where they should be so not everyone and their brother has one right after the 119 versions released. Only reason they are priced high right now is it is still new barely a month old.

[Zarchery]

After a lot of bad Delve runs, I finally got over the one big non-soloable hurdle required for a 99->119 relic upgrade. I got a clear on "Hard" difficulty for one of the Sacred Kindred Crest BCNM fights.

So I got lucky. We did "Amphibian Assault", a fight against 4 sahagin in Sacrificial Chamber. I have a pretty well geared WHM and a linkshell buddy of mine who had some connections got me an invite. Setup was PLD MNK MNK SAM BRD WHM. PLD and damage dealers had exceptional gear. DD had Delve boss weapons and some pretty good gear otherwise (don't recall what it was). PLD had some Ilevel 109 sword, 99 Aegis, and about -45% PDT. BRD was only 2 song BRD; no fancy instruments there. WHM (me) had about +50% cure potency, -47% cure casting time, and a bunch of Fast Cast, so my cures went off pretty quickly and were pretty efficient. I subbed RDM to keep myself refreshed, BRD hit me with Ballad when he could but I think I went a lot of the fight without it. BRD also tossed some backup curing. PLD supertanked the team of sahagin while we picked them off one by one. Order was BRD>MNK>DRG>WHM.

Normal level (we had to do one on Normal so that the BRD and I could proceed to Hard) was a breeze. The first Hard got a little hairy when the MNK Sahagin popped Hundred Fists and took out two of our guys. But the other guys held out while we got raises. I don't think I ended up getting low on MP that time. Second fight on Hard went smoother. No deaths, though I did run out of MP a bit after we killed the first two Sahagin. But since I was subbing RDM I did a Convert and got right back in the game.

So I don't want to say it was a cakewalk on Hard mode. I think that we had a reasonably easy time but that was just because we had a very well prepared and geared group. I think a less well geared group (no Delve boss weapons for example) might have to try different tactics, such as perhaps kiting or even zombie fighting (kill some of the sahagin far away from the main battle area, die, reraise, recover, finish off the rest).

[Damane]

After a lot of bad Delve runs, I finally got over the one big non-soloable hurdle required for a 99->119 relic upgrade. I got a clear on "Hard" difficulty for one of the Sacred Kindred Crest BCNM fights.

So I got lucky. We did "Amphibian Assault", a fight against 4 sahagin in Sacrificial Chamber. I have a pretty well geared WHM and a linkshell buddy of mine who had some connections got me an invite. Setup was PLD MNK MNK SAM BRD WHM. PLD and damage dealers had exceptional gear. DD had Delve boss weapons and some pretty good gear otherwise (don't recall what it was). PLD had some Ilevel 109 sword, 99 Aegis, and about -45% PDT. BRD was only 2 song BRD; no fancy instruments there. WHM (me) had about +50% cure potency, -47% cure casting time, and a bunch of Fast Cast, so my cures went off pretty quickly and were pretty efficient. I subbed RDM to keep myself refreshed, BRD hit me with Ballad when he could but I think I went a lot of the fight without it. BRD also tossed some backup curing. PLD supertanked the team of sahagin while we picked them off one by one. Order was BRD>MNK>DRG>WHM.

Normal level (we had to do one on Normal so that the BRD and I could proceed to Hard) was a breeze. The first Hard got a little hairy when the MNK Sahagin popped Hundred Fists and took out two of our guys. But the other guys held out while we got raises. I don't think I ended up getting low on MP that time. Second fight on Hard went smoother. No deaths, though I did run out of MP a bit after we killed the first two Sahagin. But since I was subbing RDM I did a Convert and got right back in the game.

So I don't want to say it was a cakewalk on Hard mode. I think that we had a reasonably easy time but that was just because we had a very well prepared and geared group. I think a less well geared group (no Delve boss weapons for example) might have to try different tactics, such as perhaps kiting or even zombie fighting (kill some of the sahagin far away from the main battle area, die, reraise, recover, finish off the rest).

are you talking about "Hard" or "Very Hard" mode? because "Hard" mode only is a cakewalk, while "Very Hard" is deffinitly what it says "Very Hard".