RME upgrading...

[Clou777]

so... by the look of it to upgrade our RMEs we have to have a delve boss win... and i thought the increase to dmg would have been applied straight from the update, this is not going to help me get a place in a delve win once again because its still going to be the elitists shouting for other elitists and not giving anyone else a chance to get the KIs. Ive been trying to get tojil win for months but keep getting turned away because of little things like "your brd doesnt have +3 march intrument, you only have +2" or "your sch needs capped haste equip" or "oats mnk only" etc etc etc. its getting harder to find anyone to get you win these days because the people who have won only bring the people who also have won before and i was expecting to be able to straight up join with my empys to stand a chance of an invite.

[Leocon]

I thought I read you could also do the new BCNMs to upgrade as well. Perhaps I misunderstood though?

[FaeQueenCory]

Yeah......
I was really disappointed in the fact that they require Delve MegaBoss wins too...

I thought the whole point of the REM update was to make it so more ppl could participate in Delve.

Requiring a quest to iLvficate them isn't that bad... especially not if it's soloable...
But it kinda sounds like it needs a full 99+ pt...
PLUS the Delve wins just to start it...

Getting RUN AF1 after the first week was one of the worst experiences I have ever had in the game.
That's why I always join shouts for RUN and GEO AF NMs whenever I see them... because shouting for an entire day... and getting maybe 2-3ppl to join... :(
Thank GOD that SMN can duo those NMs... Cause if not, I wouldn't have RUN's AF.

Having an update activity is NOT a bad thing... In fact, it could be very fun! Who knows!!
It would have been better had the 99 and 99-II just poofed to 119s... Cause now I am HELLA confused about what happens to a 99REM that you wanna afterglow it... Cause if you 119'd it... can you then give it the afterglow???
I'm not sure if you can.... >_>

But having an update activity... that requires you to have done the event that you're doing the update to DO....
And then having it require full pts (as I'm pretty sure it was designed for... considering it's "99BCNM"....)...
That's a lot of unfun times after this week.

EDIT:
I thought I read you could also do the new BCNMs to upgrade as well. Perhaps I misunderstood though?
You need the KIs to be able to start the quest to start the upgrade...
So...
You need at least 1 MegaBoss win...
Just to flag the REM update quest....
:(

[Leocon]

Well that is incredibly lame... But at least it's more options for weapons, I guess... and still more content. All in all I'm still pleased with this update.

[Demonviper]

SE don't get that not everyone wants to do delve. I know I don't & I don't see why it needs to be the only relevant content in the game.

Good to know there are more stupid hoops for E/R/M holders to jump through just to get roughly back on par though, when I saw this update was coming I resubbed to the game in hopes that SE have become aware of their mistakes and learned from them. Oh well, guess it saves me £10 a month.

[detlef]

SE don't get that not everyone wants to do delve. I know I don't & I don't see why it needs to be the only relevant content in the game.

Good to know there are more stupid hoops for E/R/M holders to jump through just to get roughly back on par though, when I saw this update was coming I resubbed to the game in hopes that SE have become aware of their mistakes and learned from them. Oh well, guess it saves me £10 a month.Wouldn't it have been more prudent to wait until after this update to decide whether to resub?


so... by the look of it to upgrade our RMEs we have to have a delve boss win... and i thought the increase to dmg would have been applied straight from the update, this is not going to help me get a place in a delve win once again because its still going to be the elitists shouting for other elitists and not giving anyone else a chance to get the KIs. Ive been trying to get tojil win for months but keep getting turned away because of little things like "your brd doesnt have +3 march intrument, you only have +2" or "your sch needs capped haste equip" or "oats mnk only" etc etc etc. its getting harder to find anyone to get you win these days because the people who have won only bring the people who also have won before and i was expecting to be able to straight up join with my empys to stand a chance of an invite.Few questions for you:

-What's wrong with having to do the current hardest content in the game to get the best weapons? You can't be bothered to find your way into an alliance to get a single win?

-Do you even have a level 99 RME? I can't imagine that someone with a level 99 weapon wouldn't have any connections or even be able to merc a win if absolutely necessary.

-Leaders demand MNKs with Oats because there are ton of MNKs out there who have them so they can be picky. If you can't bring that to the table you have to have a support job ready to go. +3 March instrument is hugely important for BRD, not just some little thing. As for SCH, only Apamajas II is a difficult to get. Everything else is just bayld, skirmish, empyrean, and relic gear. You can gear SCH cheaply; stunning is just a skill that takes practice.

[Demonviper]

Wouldn't it have been more prudent to wait until after this update to decide whether to resub?

I was caught up in an uncharacteristic bout of optimism I guess. I forgot to take into account the square-enix factor.

[FaeQueenCory]

Well that is incredibly lame... But at least it's more options for weapons, I guess... and still more content. All in all I'm still pleased with this update.
Overall... me too... sorta. (I'm on the line... But slightly on the side of "pleased" rather than "displeased".)

But making the REM update require Delve wins... kinda defeats the purpose of updating them entirely....
I know the devs made the REMs crap because they didn't understand the basic psychological attachment humans place on things they work on... (ask ppl who made their car about it and then compare to humans who just bought a car... look them in the eyes as they talk about it... I don't remember the term for this phenomenon... but it's connected to nostaglia.)
But having the update require the content that crapped on the REMs...

That kinda intrinsically defeats the purpose of updating them...

What makes me on the pleased side is that the 109AF1 aren't complete crap...
BUT they look like they require full-99-pts for their updating....
And are BCNMs...
I might have 300+ kindred seals.... but....
If it's the random drop like Limbus... (which is what it looks like if I'm reading the notes right)
Then getting the few pieces I want/need is gonna be hell if I don't get them this week. *remembersRUNAF1NMs*

EDIT:

Few questions for you:

-What's wrong with having to do the current hardest content in the game to get the best weapons? You can't be bothered to find your way into an alliance to get a single win?

-Do you even have a level 99 RME? I can't imagine that someone with a level 99 weapon wouldn't have any connections or even be able to merc a win if absolutely necessary.

-Leaders demand MNKs with Oats because there are ton of MNKs out there who have them so they can be picky. If you can't bring that to the table you have to have a support job ready to go. +3 March instrument is hugely important for BRD, not just some little thing. As for SCH, only Apamajas II is a difficult to get. Everything else is just bayld, skirmish, empyrean, and relic gear. You can gear SCH cheaply; stunning is just a skill that takes practice.
I can't speak for that guy, but updating the REMs wasn't about having the best gear in the game.

It was about letting more people be included in Delve, which is currently the ONLY endgame event.

To use your (and his) oats example, which is the strawman, requiring Oats is valid... it's not really different from requiring DDs to have REMs... except that's the difference.
With the REM requirement days, there's 3 different weapons that are roughly equal that are acceptable, this allows for ppl who can't make a mythic to play with everyone because they made a relic (you can exchange all the REM letters and it still holds true.)
The Oats requirement is a little harsher... because 1) it requires the content you're trying to do and 2) there are no viable alternatives.

The REM update, had it not required a Delve win (thank god it only requires one instead of all 3), would have made it so that mnks with a REM could join in and get an Oats if they wanted it.

More people playing on equal footing...

More alternatives to suit the player's taste. (to an extent, right Gungnir?)

The Merit WSs were a wonderful addition because it lessened the demand of REM-only, allowing more people to play together.

And this iLvfication should have done the same: lessen the demand that you've done delve to do delve.

It should have offered more alternatives to ppl to let more ppl be equal.

But instead it funnels the community again.

I have a delve win KI.... but I have no REMs... Should then I just be happy that I have my cake?
No.
Because I know that there are those out there with no Delve wins and a bajillion REMs...
I remember there was even a guy with all but 2 empys... all at 95 or 99...
Requiring Delve is the exact opposite of what made REMs good: The fact that there were multiple paths to the best weapons in the game.

Empy NM farming too daunting/mind numbing? Farm dynamis currency for a Relic!
Dynamis isn't fun for you? Camp NMs to make an Empy!
Alexandrite? Well you can still make an Empy or a Relic!!

But now?
Delve.
You have to do Delve.
You want to not do Delve?
Delve is boring for you?
Delve isn't fun for you?
Too bad.
You have to do Delve.

I only do delve for the gear... I don't enjoy it.
I would rather do Yorcia Weald Skirmish forever than go on more fracture runs...
Or Even do WKRs... because at least WKR doesn't bring out the dbags...
If I could do something I enjoy doing instead of the ONLY endgame...
I would.
But I need the gear from Delve just to be able to gear the jobs I enjoy playing.

And now... The REM owners have this same dilemma.
Ultimately.... this requirement to just flag the upgrade quest is bad.
Because it removes player-choice in how they wanna reach the endgame.

You wanna farm up a Relic?
You wanna camp up an Empy?
You wanna Alexandrite a Mythic?
Too bad.
Go do Delve.

EDIT: cause the post below...
It looks like there IS an alternative to trigger the quest instead of a Delve win.
Good.
Dunno how doable it is... but it's at least an alternative to Delve.
Even if it's using seals...

[Dragoy]

I guess I'm missing something, or do I simply read this in a different way when I think one needs not Menace Inspection (Delve)?


A quest which enables players to reforge their relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons has been added.

822182198215
Prerequisites

Players must be in possession of a relic, mythic, or empyrean weapon only equippable by level 99 characters.
Players must either be in possession of either the detached stinger, flame-scarred skull. or craggy fin key items; or have cleared the “difficult” or “very difficult” version of one of the battlefields for which a macrocosmic orb is required for entry.
* For mythic weapons, players must have viewed the associated event that comes with acquiring them.




Receiving the quest
Players must meet the prerequisites given above and speak with Oboro in Port Jeuno (E-6).

8208



Items required to reforge the weapons
The requisite items by be obtained by vanquishing NMs and boss monsters in Delve content.
* These items may be obtained regardless of whether the NMs are vanquished in the field or within a fracture.



Obtaining items in battlefields
These items may also be obtained as rewards in battlefields for which macrocosmic or microcosmic orbs are required for entry.
* These items can only be acquired on normal, difficult, or very difficult settings.
* The chance of receiving these items varies by difficulty level and type of orb used.




Here:

[...] or have cleared the “difficult” or “very difficult” version of one of the battlefields for which a macrocosmic orb is required for entry.

The new versions of the artifact armour look cool, but I don't like the idea of grinding for them Sacred Kindred Crests (looks like there's a mistake on the notes, about kindred's crests being required for them orbs). I never ever had a lot of seals/crests. >.<

I did get one from the first defeated monster, actually, but after 5 or 6, they stopped appearing! I guess it'll take a while to get 'em, but I still say thanks for reducing the time required for the next one to be found!

[FaeQueenCory]

I guess I'm missing something, or do I simply read this in a different way when I think one needs not Menace Inspection (Delve)?



Here:

[...] or have cleared the “difficult” or “very difficult” version of one of the battlefields for which a macrocosmic orb is required for entry.

The new versions of the artifact armour look cool, but I don't like the idea of grinding for them Sacred Kindred Crests (looks like there's a mistake on the notes, about kindred's crests being required for them orbs). I never ever had a lot of seals/crests. >.<

I did get one from the first defeated monster, actually, but after 5 or 6, they stopped appearing! I guess it'll take a while to get 'em, but I still say thanks for reducing the time required for the next one to be found!
Bluh.
I didn't notice that... so... Well good.

I can't say how "good" it really is...
Especially if it's basically a BCNM-delve-fracture...
But at least it's an alternative.

And for you, Dragoy, you can always do the exchange of 1=3 seal/crests/w/es
Even if that's still pricey...
(they really should have just used the translurry KI from Yorcia Skirmish for the AF upgrades... why did this have to be so damn complicated when we already had a "+1" system in place?)

[Zumi]

You guys realize that clearing delve once to flag the quest isn't even the hard part its collecting the 300 items you need to do the upgrade.

[FaeQueenCory]

You guys realize that clearing delve once to flag the quest isn't even the hard part its collecting the 300 items you need to do the upgrade.
Getting 300 of something isn't really hard....

It's just really obnoxiously mind-numbingly boring...

And/or rage inducing because... lotting... :(

[Dragoy]

I can't say how "good" it really is...
Especially if it's basically a BCNM-delve-fracture...
But at least it's an alternative.
To me it looks like it'll be those (now old) battlefields listed (Kindred Spirits et al).


And for you, Dragoy, you can always do the exchange of 1=3 seal/crests/w/es
Even if that's still pricey...
(they really should have just used the translurry KI from Yorcia Skirmish for the AF upgrades... why did this have to be so damn complicated when we already had a "+1" system in place?)

Yeah, I was thinking about that, too, but it s not (yet) an option.


You guys realize that clearing delve once to flag the quest isn't even the hard part its collecting the 300 items you need to do the upgrade.

It kind of can be when one doesn't have access to the particular cont(in)ent at all, which is also why I am very thankful for there being a non-Adōulin method of doing these things. ^^;

[Zumi]

If you plan on doing bcnms you still have to go to adoulin to kill mobs for the new seals, so there really isn't a non adoulin method.

[Dragoy]

If you plan on doing bcnms you still have to go to adoulin to kill mobs for the new seals, so there really isn't a non adoulin method.

Unless it was/is unintended, they do appear in places like Gustav Tunnel, too.

[FaeQueenCory]

If you plan on doing bcnms you still have to go to adoulin to kill mobs for the new seals, so there really isn't a non adoulin method.
He could do it the REALLY grindy way.....

1) get 3 of any old seals
2) trade for 1 new seal
3) repeat until X0 is made
4) ???
5) Profit

(the last steps should have sounded how poor I think this method is)

[Twille]

the last thing this game needed was another type of seal to trade in...

[Omegablue]

I'm disappointed.

Instead of making use of the Limbus/Dyna/Einherjhar/Salvage battlefields we get stuck with new orbs and Delve. BOO! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[FaeQueenCory]

I'm disappointed.

Instead of making use of the Limbus/Dyna/Einherjhar/Salvage battlefields we get stuck with new orbs and Delve.
Or they could have just.... added more items to the translurry KI trade table...
It's not like that would have taken much to do...

(also glad there was no Limbus shenanigans with all these updates... not a fan of that place...)
At least the 109ification of the AF1s don't require Delve...
YäY?

[detlef]

With Yggzi being available from the next login campaign, there is absolutely no excuse not to get your wins.

[Kensagaku]

On top of all that's said, a Delve weapon is not required for Delve. Yes, some leaders want only the best of the best because they think that's the only way they can win, but that's not all that's required. People had to get the wins back before the weapons, after all; once the mechanics were figured out for each area, it became increasingly easier.

Got DRG? Many Delve groups take you if you've got 5/5 Angon and at least a reasonable gear set. I got to go a few times before my Upuirex with my Qatsunoci. Not +1, the original. People really do like that Def Down. MNK, I got to go with my Ninzas, and if we had known all the mechanics, we probably would have won. No RME there. And even if you don't have a good melee setup (why do you have a 99 RME if you don't though...?), there's plenty of support options, as Phil has listed.

COR, for example, requires only a few essential pieces of gear: things to boost your rolls/JAs, and your AF2+2 boots for a better Wild Card reset. Besides that, your rolls are not gear-based, so get your rolls up and contribute how you can otherwise. SCH isn't bad either, aside from your stun staff, most of it is pretty cheap to gear up. Sure, it helps to optimize with better FC/Haste gear (and a bit of M.acc/dark skill, though the new Magic Accuracy Skill negates most of the need for that), but as long as you have the bare essentials, your job is to mostly stun. BRD requires a little more investment into making sure you have the right instruments to boost your songs as well as gear for duration and the like, but again, wouldn't take an excessively long time. GEO is another good one, as long as you level your skills to their cap. Toss on the bell, cape, and hands and boom, max potency. Helps to have other gear sets, but as you can see, it's not terribly hard to gear for.

Delve weapons are not needed to beat Delve bosses. It's just easier, but there are other options. So having that as a prerequisite for the RME updates, if you choose not to go the route of the orb BCNMs, doesn't really seem all that bad...

[FaeQueenCory]

On top of all that's said, a Delve weapon is not required for Delve. Yes, some leaders want only the best of the best because they think that's the only way they can win, but that's not all that's required. People had to get the wins back before the weapons, after all; once the mechanics were figured out for each area, it became increasingly easier.

Got DRG? Many Delve groups take you if you've got 5/5 Angon and at least a reasonable gear set. I got to go a few times before my Upuirex with my Qatsunoci. Not +1, the original. People really do like that Def Down. MNK, I got to go with my Ninzas, and if we had known all the mechanics, we probably would have won. No RME there. And even if you don't have a good melee setup (why do you have a 99 RME if you don't though...?), there's plenty of support options, as Phil has listed.

COR, for example, requires only a few essential pieces of gear: things to boost your rolls/JAs, and your AF2+2 boots for a better Wild Card reset. Besides that, your rolls are not gear-based, so get your rolls up and contribute how you can otherwise. SCH isn't bad either, aside from your stun staff, most of it is pretty cheap to gear up. Sure, it helps to optimize with better FC/Haste gear (and a bit of M.acc/dark skill, though the new Magic Accuracy Skill negates most of the need for that), but as long as you have the bare essentials, your job is to mostly stun. BRD requires a little more investment into making sure you have the right instruments to boost your songs as well as gear for duration and the like, but again, wouldn't take an excessively long time. GEO is another good one, as long as you level your skills to their cap. Toss on the bell, cape, and hands and boom, max potency. Helps to have other gear sets, but as you can see, it's not terribly hard to gear for.

Delve weapons are not needed to beat Delve bosses. It's just easier, but there are other options. So having that as a prerequisite for the RME updates, if you choose not to go the route of the orb BCNMs, doesn't really seem all that bad...
It's not really about just having to do Delve to upgrade... it's about "why bother when I can just do 1/10000000 of the work and have the delve weapon".
Using Oats as the strawman is what everyone does, so let's run with that.
It's soooooo easy to get Oats.
Painfully easy.
I could have one if I wanted... but I don't cause my monk and pup are only 50.
"evrybdy haz oats"

And what's worse about it is that you don't even have to win the lot for the oats that dropped to be able to get one.

And that's the main problem here.

The REM update was supposed to bring more people to the current endgame: Delve.
People who left because they suddenly became the same as a lv1 character.
People who just haven't been able to get the delve gear but had perfectly good REM and skirmish.
People who are new.

The REMs were healthy at the top because of the multiple ways a person could create a "best weapon".
Requiring Delve to bring them back....
Just funnels the variety back into "go-do-Delve-go-do-Delve-go-do-DELVE!!!"

And VW might have had terribad drops.... but those drops were ALWAYS YOURS.
Without the option to buy these using plasm...
This is just the same as not having updated them.

Personally, I think that +30%dmg will make the HUGE "totes not a magian trial" effort be worth it...
But I, and a vast majority of the REM ppl I imagine, just don't have the time right now.
It's school season.
Making a REM was a summer "event" of sort...
And demanding pretty much the same dedication that takes a whole summer to just make the 75... during the fall/winter...
Ain't nobody got time for that.

One of the things that was the problem with the REM outdate was the fact that it takes a whole summer to just make the base... but 45min-1hr to win a random lot for a weapon of "the same" quality.
And here again we find distaste in "I have to go through hell AGAIN just to make this the same as something that took me a single hour to do"...
Not having the stupid items be buyable with Plasm was a horrible idea.

At least there's a BCNM that can be done in place of a Delve win.

(and as to your "just crap gear certain jobs"... that might work on Valefor... but on Odin, if you don't have the best of the best... You will probably not get any delve wins unless you luck on one of the 3 nice ppl organizing Delve.)

EDIT STORY TIME:
Why do I think this ungodly, stupidly huge demand of effort will be worth it?
I was in a PUG skirmish group one time... there was a DRG who was sporting the 113 skirmish polearm. (I don't know if it even had augments... I don't recall)
And I think she was testing Stardiver and Drakesbane with the iLv gear because she'd alternate...
And what the log told us about her dmg was terrifying. (or at least it was to me! Mages are happy if a WS hits 1k)
With only a 113 polearm, her stardivers were averaging about 2500 (2450-2550).
But her Drakesbane were averaging 2600 (2550-2650)...
Which might not sound all that different... Until you factor in the +30% from using drakesbane with the mythic.
That's popping out 3380 on average. (obviously it'll actually be MORE than that because REMs are 119 not 113... but for an easy comparison the number holds.)
That bonus is what made the REMs the top.
It's what I feared about making them 119.
Because... I don't think the other 119 drops can compete with that.

[detlef]

I'm a little lost. Are you arguing that you shouldn't have to set foot in Delve to start the quest? Or are you saying that you shouldn't have to set foot in Delve to farm upgrade items for the quest? Or is it just a that Delve and RME upgrades shouldn't be related in any way?

[FaeQueenCory]

I'm a little lost. Are you arguing that you shouldn't have to set foot in Delve to start the quest? Or are you saying that you shouldn't have to set foot in Delve to farm upgrade items for the quest? Or is it just a that Delve and RME upgrades shouldn't be related in any way?
I was arguing that what was healthy before was that there were viable and equal alternatives to get you to "the best weapon in the game."

Don't like Dynamis? Make an Empy.
Don't like NM camping? Make a relic.
Alexandrite? Relics and Empys exist.

All three were functionally interchangeable... and thusly, more people had access to "being teh best" by the virtue of alternatives.
Obviously there are exceptions... Like Gungnir... Or Claustrum.... Poor super-crappy relics...
But now.... It's all funneled into Delve.
Which is an event that excludes just over half the playable jobs in the game. (mnk, sch, drk&sam, drg, whm, brd, cor, geo... that's pretty much it... 9/22)

Sure, one can argue that there's a BCNM that you can farm too... but unless you're seeing the comparable drop rates to 6NMs dropping 1+ per kill....
Then that's not a real viable alternative.

It's not an argument over which gives you more money base or dreamworld dynamis...
It's an argument for the NM camping to make an Empy over being forced into any dynamis area to make a Relic.

THAT's what had contributed so much to FFXI's longevity... Or at least a part of it anyways. (and Hater's gonna hate... but Abyssea didn't kill off server populations.)
Funneling the REM update through delve is exactly like not updating the REMs in the first place... because it tells you "go-play-delve-NOW!"

Some people don't like Delve.
Some people (this is me) don't like the people who play Delve. (I've met too many dbags and not enough nice ppl in Delve, endgame has always brought out the worst in ppl... but not like Delve.)
And then there are those that just don't have access to the means to get to Delve.

Making the drops be sellable is good... but, again, not all of us have 400M to blow on these items.

And it's... almost adorable... this update for the REMs... because I can see why the devs did it like this instead of just adding to the translurry table.
It's part of the critical failure that they have at understanding the human emotional attachment to the REMs...
They discarded them because they didn't understand that humans create an emotional bond with something that they spend a lot of time with (see GLaDOS and the Companion Cube).
But what the Devs saw when they saw ppl wanting their friends back... was the timesink.
It seems that a lot of ppl are taking this update as a slap in the face...
But I'm sure it wasn't meant as such...

In fact I'm pretty sure... No. I am 100% sure that they Powers that Be thought that this 300 BS item farm was JUST what people were asking for...
TBH, I don't think there'd have been much backlash had the number been something "big but reasonable" like 50 or even 100.
Sure there'd be bitching and moaning... but there'd be a BUNCH of support for it.... at least more than there seems to be now.

And if the 300 BS item were to be maintained... Had these items been "the new geodes/-ites" that drop off of any Adoulin mob but drop in troves in Delve...
Then I don't think there'd be as much resentment either. (That'd be a dreamworld vs normal Dynamis debate/choice.)

One of the reasons for the backlash against requiring to do delve is the ease in which the delve 119 weapons can be gotten.
A "why spend a month getting 300 thingies when I can just spend an hour and have a w/e"...
Other reasons are what I've already mentioned above this "paragraph."

On that note... I actually think the effort might be worth it... all REMs have that +30% damage... so... theoretically... 119 REMs might just blow all the current 119 weapons out of the water...
We won't know for a bit.
But I suspect that the 119REMs will out perform the 119 MegaBoss drops.

It's sadly adorable imo that the Devs thought that the grind is what people missed from the REMs...
But then again...
It seems like the REMs are also the "red headed stepchild".

Let us look at the "legitimate children" who got their iLvs boosted: the skirmish weapons.
IMO, I say that they Yorcia skirmish was probably the BEST thing to happen to Adoulin.
Because it turned these crappy 105 weapons into weapons that were comparable to Delve 113 weapons. (This is also an example of alternative variety. You don't have to Delve to have a 113 weapon anymore.)
And the process of upgrading them was a simple: Trade <item>; check KI: 1/0; if;then spawn <item+1>

And what's even better, is that due to the augments... a skirmish 113 weapon or a 113 delve weapon can be used based upon a player's gear and playstyle.
Some setups the Delve will be superior, others, the skirmish...
But for all intents and purposes... the difference between them is negligible.
(Again, player agency comes to bear here. For instance, I prefer the straight +10str and +acc from a rank15 Bereaver over a comparably augmented Crobaci+1. But I'm Elvaan so... a higher acc from more "fake" skill and augments is more important to me than that sweet +2% DA that comes with the trade offs of higher base dmg and longer delay... There are strengths and weaknesses to using each of these 113 GSs... but it's ultimately up to playstyle and player agency to pick which to use.)

I could argue that the reason why REMs didn't use the simple updater of the translurry is because they are the "redheaded stepchild"...
But that would be wrong I think... I mean... maybe that is why they did it the way they did...
But I honestly believe that they believed they were giving the people what they wanted: a 300 BS item grind.

Because I honestly think that the Powers that Be believed that the complaints against the REM-outdate was a lack of magian trial grinding in Adoulin.





Last thing: Is anyone else worried about Afterglow? I don't even actually think I've seen one... But... I think we might have broken things... Or at least I hope the devs realized this too...
What happens when I make my 99REM a 119REM... and then want to Afterglow it?
Can... that even be done anymore using a 119 version?
Someone needs to find that out because....
That's kinda a big thing to no longer be able to do... >_>

[Okipuit]

What happens when I make my 99REM a 119REM... and then want to Afterglow it?
Can... that even be done anymore using a 119 version?

Even if you have upgraded your weapon up to ilvl 119, you will still be able to perform the upgrade to receive the afterglow effect.

[FaeQueenCory]

Even if you have upgraded your weapon up to ilvl 119, you will still be able to perform the upgrade to receive the afterglow effect.
A little more elaboration: Will that revert the 119 back to the base 99 and have to be 119ified again?
Or is there some new magian trial that... I haven't looked for.... >_> (That's a lot to dig through.)
Or is the upgrade from 119 to 119afterglow something entirely different like the 99>>>119 upgrade??
Thank you for the response about that.

[MarkovChain]

It's not really about just having to do Delve to upgrade... it's about "why bother when I can just do 1/10000000 of the work and have the delve weapon".
Using Oats as the strawman is what everyone does, so let's run with that.
It's soooooo easy to get Oats.
Painfully easy.
I could have one if I wanted... but I don't cause my monk and pup are only 50.
"evrybdy haz oats"


Well then why complaining if you are ok with a weapon that is slighly worse than RME ? The main avantage I see with the current game is that new players are not left out while old players are not left out either. At the same time there is still a hierarchy between weapons, which is necessary in an MMO. Math say for instance that spharai and vere are roughly 5% better damage than oat. For some it's too little to be worth it. Ok. For other more dedicated people, they will have to upgrade it through a process that is not really tedious unlike what has been said (I'm already 113/300 after 6-7 hours of doing delve 6-man style, someone that plays serisouly every day will probably need 2 to 3 weeks only).
The only thing I regret is that there is a gap for empy between the level 90 ones and 119 ones, because only a couple of players per server can make it to 95 and 99 due to the supply of voidwatch mats.

[Dragoy]

A little more elaboration: Will that revert the 119 back to the base 99 and have to be 119ified again?

Nay.


Or is there some new magian trial that...

Indeed.


(That's a lot to dig through.)

Not really:


Find the “orange” Magian Moogle.
List available trials.
Select any weapon type.
Check the trials in the bottom of the list.

=)

[Malthar]

I'm going to use the opportunity to address the afterglow situation.
In addition to the afterglow, can you make it worth the wielder's time? When afterglow is active increase the rate at which the multi-damage effect occurs.
Do this and we will love you forever!

[FaeQueenCory]

Well then why complaining if you are ok with a weapon that is slighly worse than RME ? The main avantage I see with the current game is that new players are not left out while old players are not left out either. At the same time there is still a hierarchy between weapons, which is necessary in an MMO. Math say for instance that spharai and vere are roughly 5% better damage than oat. For some it's too little to be worth it. Ok. For other more dedicated people, they will have to upgrade it through a process that is not really tedious unlike what has been said (I'm already 113/300 after 6-7 hours of doing delve 6-man style, someone that plays serisouly every day will probably need 2 to 3 weeks only).
The only thing I regret is that there is a gap for empy between the level 90 ones and 119 ones, because only a couple of players per server can make it to 95 and 99 due to the supply of voidwatch mats.
My MNK is 50.
0_0
I have no Oats.

And I think the WS bonus alone is worth the work it takes to 99->119 a REM.

But it's just as you said.
It's not just this one thing that needs to be done.
There's more to the REMs than just this 99->119 totes-not-a-magian-trial.

I'm not really complaining... Because the difference between Oats and the H2H REMs doesn't affect me in the slightest.

Though I suppose I am complaining about one thing... The virtual requirement to do Delve with this.
The beauty of the REMs is that there were multiple paths that suited the player's tastes to a "best weapon."
And having other 119 weapons opens up more people to being able to play with "the best."

But I do not like the funneling everything through Delve... which, is the only feasible, realistic way to get these items.
At least until they add more ways or even drastically lower the 300 requirement.

I do not enjoy Delve.
It is not a fun endgame event for me.
For others it is.
But those same other who enjoy Delve may hate Dynamis, which I love.
And the way the REMs were before was that Mythics and Empys didn't require you to ever even look at Dynamis.
And that's what I would like here.
Instead it's currently the difference between farming in Dreamworld Dynamis or farming in regular dynamis... "farm them in WKRs if you don't like Delve"... Except you'd have to be really dumb to think that those are two equally viable farm outlets.
It's why you, Markovchain, have achieved so much so quickly.

If they lessen the #: "well you have to do more Delve... but at least you don't have to do a LOT more... good."
If they add more to other places: "good. now I don't have to do more Delve."
Heck, even emulating the previous model by making the relic stone drop in Dynamis areas, the Mythic drop off of VNMs, and the empy drop off of Abbyssea/VW NMs...
Where it might be fastest to grind delve... but there are other viable alternates...
That's all I'm wanting.
More options to make it so that more people can get to the same standing in more ways.



Find the “orange” Magian Moogle.
List available trials.
Select any weapon type.
Check the trials in the bottom of the list.

=)
Bluh... XP
I hate trudging through those menus... Was hoping for a quick and easy "yes, they are there #s X-X" or w/e.

[Dragoy]

Bluh... XP
I hate trudging through those menus... Was hoping for a quick and easy "yes, they are there #s X-X" or w/e.

It's certainly not fun! At least with the new UI, there will be lots more space in those menus so that one can see more at once, but I digress!

To expand upon the trials a little bit, if you didn't check them yet, there are simply additional trials to be taken for those higher level versions of the weapons, and the requirements are the same as for the trials that existed before.

[FaeQueenCory]

It's certainly not fun! At least with the new UI, there will be lots more space in those menus so that one can see more at once, but I digress!

To expand upon the trials a little bit, if you didn't check them yet, there are simply additional trials to be taken for those higher level versions of the weapons, and the requirements are the same as for the trials that existed before.
Yeah, I've looked now. (not at the 119->119afterglow, but with the [ ] weapons.)
And it's especially not fun because of that "please wait a moment" huge lag between trials.
16g ram... fastest internet available... still takes like a minute for the next trials to load... (it's really the main reason why I asked lol... none of the wikis have been updated for either yet, and I usually default to them to look up trials instead of navigating the in game menu...)

Are they.... gonna give those WoE cheap weapons names?

[predatory]

This was a crappy deal all the way around, but probably more so for the people who decided to farm and buy dynamis coins etc for Relics, and do the Magian trials for Empys, AFTER SE announced they were going to fix the R/M/Es. The reason I specified after is because once it was made known that the R/M/Es were definitely going to be upgraded they hustled out there and busted ass farming and camping etc to get it done in just a couple of short months rather than doing it leisurely like a lot of the people who already had those weapons did, and after they'd blown their fortunes, and worked tirelessly for just a few short months getting them done in time for the upgrade, SE pulls this maneuver on everyone. That isn't to say I don't feel bad for the people that already had them, but I think a lot of the R/M/E owners had already written them off as a lost cause, and had moved on to delve weapons, I know quite a few people who were building them simply because they didn't have the "right" jobs leveled to get into delve, or they'd leveled the "right" job so they could get into delve, but didn't have delve gear so no reindeer games for them. A few people I knew on Bahamut viewed it as a way for them to get the weapons they wanted for their jobs after all, and it's really sad that SE gave them, (and everyone who had them before SoA), such a hard slap in the face for all the time and effort put into this

[Mefuki]

SE had 4 options at this point that I can think of:

1) Don't update RME.

2) Update them automatically after a version update.

3) Update RME but allow us to make them not as good/as good as the highest damage weapons in the game.

4) Update them and allow us to make them the best weapons in the game (as far as I know), but only slightly better (I've been reading ~5% on some).

Out of all the avenues they could have took, they chose the best one given the position they were in. We were upset that RME were outclassed in the first place so if they took option 1, we we wouldn't have been pleased. We made that know to them quite clearly. Option 2 would have been the lazy, short term solution. We would have been pleased initially as we continued to stand around Adoulin, having nothing to work toward because we suddenly have the best weapons in the game (which we had already told them were at the heart of so much endgame activity thus far). Option 3 wouldn't have helped anything because hardly anyone would do the work to make a weapon that was inferior to a Delve one.

Option 4 has the capacity to rejuvenate a lot of the old endgame areas, bolster economic stability and give us something to work toward again (which was something people were complaining about quite a bit). You want to talk about Effort - Reward systems? That's what this is. Like I said before, I'd agree with you that if these items were EX items that only came from Delve it'd be terrible but they come from other places and are sellable. Which means that there are different ways to get the items you need. You can make Gil (i.e. points) to earn the items that way if you really wanted to. Option 4 was the one of the best things they could have done to help the game continue to stabilize.

People have been saying, "great, now I have 5+ weapons to work on. This is stupid." Who says you have to update them all. Who says you have to update any of them. The different between RME and Delve is 5% or so I've read in RME's favour. Enough that it's actually worth working toward but not enough that you couldn't get by with other weapons (not at all like when Delve weapons came out which had 40% or so on people's then useless RME.)

And now they're talking about trying to make future gear a little more lateral rather than vertical? That's great. A lot of us were complaining about that too. So, far from a "slap in the face", a lot (not all) of this update was SE saying, "You're right, that was dumb. We'll try to get the game back on track".

[Demon6324236]

Well then why complaining if you are ok with a weapon that is slighly worse than RME ? The main avantage I see with the current game is that new players are not left out while old players are not left out either. At the same time there is still a hierarchy between weapons, which is necessary in an MMO. Math say for instance that spharai and vere are roughly 5% better damage than oat. For some it's too little to be worth it. Ok. For other more dedicated people, they will have to upgrade it through a process that is not really tedious unlike what has been said (I'm already 113/300 after 6-7 hours of doing delve 6-man style, someone that plays serisouly every day will probably need 2 to 3 weeks only).I completely agree with this, if your argument is why spend hours doing RMEs when you can spend an hour doing Delve for Oats, why do you care in the first place? Oats are not as good, either that means cut your losses, save your time, and get your Oats, or spend your time getting the better weapon and stop complaining you need 300 items to do it which are not even that hard to obtain.


A few people I knew on Bahamut viewed it as a way for them to get the weapons they wanted for their jobs after all, and it's really sad that SE gave them, (and everyone who had them before SoA), such a hard slap in the face for all the time and effort put into thisIts not a slap in the face to ask people to work for a better weapon, you can still make these without even entering Delve a single time.


People have been saying, "great, now I have 5+ weapons to work on. This is stupid." Who says you have to update them all. Who says you have to update any of them. The different between RME and Delve is 5% or so I've read in RME's favour. Enough that it's actually worth working toward but not enough that you couldn't get by with other weapons (not at all like when Delve weapons came out which had 40% or so on people's then useless RME.)

And now they're talking about trying to make future gear a little more lateral rather than vertical? That's great. A lot of us were complaining about that too. So, far from a "slap in the face", a lot (not all) of this update was SE saying, "You're right, that was dumb. We'll try to get the game back on track".This is really how it is, they gave us something to do, it has a lot of good things about it, and all people are doing is complaining. We complained enough to get the game going a bit more on track, its ok to stop now guys, we can calm down on this subject, complain about the other issues like jobs with bad RF/SPs and balance issues which cause jobs to be neglected by the players, stuff like that, as well as needing more unique content and such, we won this battle, and the relating battles.

[Camiie]

Shouldn't fully upgraded relics, mythics, and empys be rare? Shouldn't they only ever be in the hands of the hyper-dedicated? If so then the process has to have considerable hoops and expenses at various stages. It has to be difficult or you do a disservice to the prestige of the weapons and a disservice to average players who have to face the expectations of having one.

[predatory]

Shouldn't fully upgraded relics, mythics, and empys be rare? Shouldn't they only ever be in the hands of the hyper-dedicated? If so then the process has to have considerable hoops and expenses at various stages. It has to be difficult or you do a disservice to the prestige of the weapons and a disservice to average players who have to face the expectations of having one.

They were already upgraded once, why should a person have to redo all that work, just to make them as strong as a Delve you can farm in a week. wtf is wrong with you people?

[Demon6324236]

They are stronger than a Delve weapon, if you are ok with a Delve weapon go get your Delve weapon and deal with it, if you want something better, you know the path you must take and what it involves, as well as its reward at the end. What's wrong with you people not understanding that the game needs something to do?

[Mefuki]

They were already upgraded once, why should a person have to redo all that work, just to make them as strong as a Delve you can farm in a week. wtf is wrong with you people?

..."The different between RME and Delve is 5% or so I've read in RME's favour. Enough that it's actually worth working toward but not enough that you couldn't get by with other weapons (not at all like when Delve weapons came out which had 40% or so on people's then useless RME.)"

[Demon6324236]

That's really the nice thing about the RME update which everyone keeps acting like its horrible. The RMEs are not so amazing they make the Delve weapons worthless or pale in comparison, while yes, some people will be mad they are not super duper amazing weapons from the gods themselves, I am honestly happy the gap is smaller rather than larger, they are strong enough to be better, weak enough to be able to be dealt without. This means, no RME119 only shouts, no requirements of having one, no getting called gimp without one, so on, just if you want one, get one, shows your dedicated to that job, if you do not have one, you can still use 119 weapons and be just slightly weaker, oh no.

[predatory]

That's really the nice thing about the RME update which everyone keeps acting like its horrible. The RMEs are not so amazing they make the Delve weapons worthless or pale in comparison, while yes, some people will be mad they are not super duper amazing weapons from the gods themselves, I am honestly happy the gap is smaller rather than larger, they are strong enough to be better, weak enough to be able to be dealt without. This means, no RME119 only shouts, no requirements of having one, no getting called gimp without one, so on, just if you want one, get one, shows your dedicated to that job, if you do not have one, you can still use 119 weapons and be just slightly weaker, oh no.

Well if you love the system for upgrading RMEs and AF so much, hop to it, if you're truly upgrading AF and RMEs well bully for you, but you seem to spend alot of time trolling the forums for someone with so much on his plate

[Anjou]

Well if you love the system for upgrading RMEs and AF so much, hop to it, if you're truly upgrading AF and RMEs well bully for you, but you seem to spend alot of time trolling the forums for someone with so much on his plate

Eh I kinda have to say that I see Demon playing a lot actually, a multi tasker but he gets a lot of things done ingame. o. o

[Demon6324236]

I normally post while waiting on things. Doing Monstrosity with 5 mobs on me, afk, post some, come back. Gathering for Delve, tell the leader to send me a tell when were about to enter, look back to the forums for more posting. Doing Skirmish and we have 2 BLMs dominating everything, well, no need to pay attention there, I know what to do...

I do not troll from what I understand it to mean, trolling being when you post only to make others angry or annoy them, I post to make a point, sometimes I do it normally, sometimes argumentatively, sometimes sarcastically, but I am always trying to make a point, its just a matter of if its lost on you or not.

[Camiie]

They were already upgraded once, why should a person have to redo all that work, just to make them as strong as a Delve you can farm in a week. wtf is wrong with you people?

What do you have to redo? Last I checked you had to collect 300 of some brand new item to give your weapon a 20 level upgrade. That's beans compared to the previous trials. If you could gather up 1500 HMPs then this is a cakewalk for you.

As others have said they're superior to delve weapons, but not so superior or so easy to obtain that they adversely affect everyone else in the game that doesn't have the resources to make one. You get to be at the top of the DPS chain, have a prestigious item, and you're not hurting anyone else in the process. I don't see how that's not a great solution for the game as a whole.

[Ravenmore]

What do you have to redo? Last I checked you had to collect 300 of some brand new item to give your weapon a 20 level upgrade. That's beans compared to the previous trials. If you could gather up 1500 HMPs then this is a cakewalk for you.

As others have said they're superior to delve weapons, but not so superior or so easy to obtain that they adversely affect everyone else in the game that doesn't have the resources to make one. You get to be at the top of the DPS chain, have a prestigious item, and you're not hurting anyone else in the process. I don't see how that's not a great solution for the game as a whole.

That is what I'm saying for the first time they didn't massively over correct. The items drop enough to keep the price reasonable and at the same time low enough to revive old content(and some not so old) that was just sitting there as everyone sat in town moaning how there was nothing to do. As time goes on the price will drop even lower. Really should be happy they listened in the first place and if you been playing this game long enough to have a REM you should know how SE treats the items needed to upgrade them.

[predatory]

Lol if this was such a great idea, why didn't anyone come back to take advantage of it? Could it be possible that RME owners who haven't returned haven't returned because they already paid their dues on their weapons and don't feel like spending another few months rebuilding them? While you guys cheer SE on in this you're giving them the idea they are doing it right, but if they were the servers would be filling back up rather than bleeding out. If you guys really want to save this game and make it last a few more years, then you need to stop being head cheerleaders for massive fuck ups. We need to point the developers in a direction that's going to make people like me that want content vs time sinks back to the game, and there are alot of us out there. The only reason I post on these boards is to let them know they are headed in the wrong direction to bring us back, and hopefully they get it right soon, because I would love nothing more than to play the game again, but I refuse to pay for a broken product, and this is definitely a broken product. You know how you can tell it's broken? Me and 1600 other people left because of the SoA fuck up, and they think we are going to come back because they make an update where we can upgrade our af to geo run af levels but only if we spent 20x the time involved getting geo and run af sets, or people who left that built rme's will come back so they can spend another 6 months upgrading them. Get it now? They fucked up and before anyone will come back they need to fix the flaw, you guys who are telling them they are doing it right, are obviously in the minority, because me and 1600 na prime time players on each server say they're doing it wrong. You may post here on these boards a lot, but you are in the minority

edited because this whole conversation pisses me off and if I said what I really meant to say they'd probably perma-ban me

[Draylo]

Lol if this was such a great idea, why didn't anyone come back to take advantage of it? Could it be possible that RME owners who haven't returned haven't returned because they already paid their dues on their weapons and don't feel like spending another few months rebuilding them? While you guys cheer SE on in this you're giving them the idea they are doing it right, but if they were the servers would be filling back up rather than bleeding out. If you guys really want to save this game and make it last a few more years, then you need to stop being head cheerleaders for massive fuck ups. We need to point the developers in a direction that's going to make people like me that want content vs time sinks back to the game, and there are alot of us out there. The only reason I post on these boards is to let them know they are headed in the wrong direction to bring us back, and hopefully they get it right soon, because I would love nothing more than to play the game again, but I refuse to pay for a broken product, and this is definitely a broken product. You know how you can tell it's broken? Me and 1600 other people left because of the SoA fuck up, and they think we are going to come back because they make an update where we can upgrade our af to geo run af levels but only if we spent 20x the time involved getting geo and run af sets, or people who left that built rme's will come back so they can spend another 6 months upgrading them. Get it now? They fucked up and before anyone will come back they need to fix the flaw, you guys who are telling them they are doing it right, are obviously in the minority, because me and 1600 na prime time players on each server say they're doing it wrong. You may post here on these boards a lot, but you are in the minority

edited because this whole conversation pisses me off and if I said what I really meant to say they'd probably perma-ban me

Wow so much angst. It does not take a long time to get the new version of AF at all.... Hardest difficulty everyone gets 4 pages to their own loot pool per orb and you get 3~4 in the pool. It takes only a few hours with this campaign to farm 20 seals. The whole thing was a grind and mega time sink before SOA as well, what are you smoking? Farming dyna 24/7 or some other money activity to buy your way to a REM. THEN you had to do trials on trash mobs over and over for the finished product. What part of that is not a time sink? Do you realize what an MMO is? Did you expect to log in to an instantly powered up REM for no effort? Get real.

[Draylo]

Well if you love the system for upgrading RMEs and AF so much, hop to it, if you're truly upgrading AF and RMEs well bully for you, but you seem to spend alot of time trolling the forums for someone with so much on his plate

People can post on these forums and still enjoy/play the game... Sooo bitter.

[Demon6324236]

Lol if this was such a great idea, why didn't anyone come back to take advantage of it? Could it be possible that RME owners who haven't returned haven't returned because they already paid their dues on their weapons and don't feel like spending another few months rebuilding them?I can think of a few reasons. They left and found something else. They left and noticed how much they wanted to leave, but were kept by friends or the sense of having to much to leave behind. They stay away because they do not want to work on catching back up to everyone else now that they fell behind so much with next to no chance of returning. They do not return because their friends left too, and are not in contact with them anymore or they simply do not want to return, meaning they would be returning alone. Many reasons.


While you guys cheer SE on in this you're giving them the idea they are doing it right, but if they were the servers would be filling back up rather than bleeding out. If you guys really want to save this game and make it last a few more years, then you need to stop being head cheerleaders for massive fuck ups. We need to point the developers in a direction that's going to make people like me that want content vs time sinks back to the game, and there are alot of us out there.A massive fk up would be to leave the game without anything to do or without any incentive to do it.


The only reason I post on these boards is to let them know they are headed in the wrong direction to bring us back, and hopefully they get it right soon, because I would love nothing more than to play the game again, but I refuse to pay for a broken product, and this is definitely a broken product. You know how you can tell it's broken? Me and 1600 other people left because of the SoA fuck up, and they think we are going to come back because they make an update where we can upgrade our af to geo run af levels but only if we spent 20x the time involved getting geo and run af sets, or people who left that built rme's will come back so they can spend another 6 months upgrading them.Honestly it would be stupid to invest in things to bring people back, most people wont come back no matter what they did because simply put we have played this game so long and we see how it goes, if you can get out, run, and never come back, because the service is not that great normally and it never seems to get better. The people who are here are normally here for friends or for the fact they invested so much into the game already, and want to leave neither behind, and once they leave, they either come back for friends/nostalgia, or the stay gone.


Get it now? They fucked up and before anyone will come back they need to fix the flaw, you guys who are telling them they are doing it right, are obviously in the minority, because me and 1600 na prime time players on each server say they're doing it wrong. You may post here on these boards a lot, but you are in the minorityActually no, I count your vote as a vote of 1, uno, ichi, not any more than that. You can not speak for 1600 other people all on your own and expect anyone else to listen to you. if you want to count the people who left as votes in agreement with you, your a fool, because simply put had I quit, you would not be representing me at all, and trust me, were it not for friends, I would have quit long ago, not to mention right after this most recent of updates.

[predatory]

I can think of a few reasons. They left and found something else. They left and noticed how much they wanted to leave, but were kept by friends or the sense of having to much to leave behind. They stay away because they do not want to work on catching back up to everyone else now that they fell behind so much with next to no chance of returning. They do not return because their friends left too, and are not in contact with them anymore or they simply do not want to return, meaning they would be returning alone. Many reasons.

A massive fk up would be to leave the game without anything to do or without any incentive to do it.

Honestly it would be stupid to invest in things to bring people back, most people wont come back no matter what they did because simply put we have played this game so long and we see how it goes, if you can get out, run, and never come back, because the service is not that great normally and it never seems to get better. The people who are here are normally here for friends or for the fact they invested so much into the game already, and want to leave neither behind, and once they leave, they either come back for friends/nostalgia, or the stay gone.

Actually no, I count your vote as a vote of 1, uno, ichi, not any more than that. You can not speak for 1600 other people all on your own and expect anyone else to listen to you. if you want to count the people who left as votes in agreement with you, your a fool, because simply put had I quit, you would not be representing me at all, and trust me, were it not for friends, I would have quit long ago, not to mention right after this most recent of updates.

You have a post count of 4258 posts on feedback forums and I'm the fool?

[Draylo]

You have a post count of 4258 posts on feedback forums and I'm the fool?

Petty attacks, you can do better than that.

[Umichi]

Lol if this was such a great idea, why didn't anyone come back to take advantage of it? Could it be possible that RME owners who haven't returned haven't returned because they already paid their dues on their weapons and don't feel like spending another few months rebuilding them? While you guys cheer SE on in this you're giving them the idea they are doing it right, but if they were the servers would be filling back up rather than bleeding out. If you guys really want to save this game and make it last a few more years, then you need to stop being head cheerleaders for massive fuck ups. We need to point the developers in a direction that's going to make people like me that want content vs time sinks back to the game, and there are alot of us out there. The only reason I post on these boards is to let them know they are headed in the wrong direction to bring us back, and hopefully they get it right soon, because I would love nothing more than to play the game again, but I refuse to pay for a broken product, and this is definitely a broken product. You know how you can tell it's broken? Me and 1600 other people left because of the SoA fuck up, and they think we are going to come back because they make an update where we can upgrade our af to geo run af levels but only if we spent 20x the time involved getting geo and run af sets, or people who left that built rme's will come back so they can spend another 6 months upgrading them. Get it now? They fucked up and before anyone will come back they need to fix the flaw, you guys who are telling them they are doing it right, are obviously in the minority, because me and 1600 na prime time players on each server say they're doing it wrong. You may post here on these boards a lot, but you are in the minority

edited because this whole conversation pisses me off and if I said what I really meant to say they'd probably perma-ban me


well it's a good thing it's their game and they can do w/e they want with it right?

[Umichi]

I was arguing that what was healthy before was that there were viable and equal alternatives to get you to "the best weapon in the game."

Don't like Dynamis? Make an Empy.
Don't like NM camping? Make a relic.
Alexandrite? Relics and Empys exist.

All three were functionally interchangeable... and thusly, more people had access to "being teh best" by the virtue of alternatives.
Obviously there are exceptions... Like Gungnir... Or Claustrum.... Poor super-crappy relics...
But now.... It's all funneled into Delve.
Which is an event that excludes just over half the playable jobs in the game. (mnk, sch, drk&sam, drg, whm, brd, cor, geo... that's pretty much it... 9/22)

Sure, one can argue that there's a BCNM that you can farm too... but unless you're seeing the comparable drop rates to 6NMs dropping 1+ per kill....
Then that's not a real viable alternative.

It's not an argument over which gives you more money base or dreamworld dynamis...
It's an argument for the NM camping to make an Empy over being forced into any dynamis area to make a Relic.

THAT's what had contributed so much to FFXI's longevity... Or at least a part of it anyways. (and Hater's gonna hate... but Abyssea didn't kill off server populations.)
Funneling the REM update through delve is exactly like not updating the REMs in the first place... because it tells you "go-play-delve-NOW!"

Some people don't like Delve.
Some people (this is me) don't like the people who play Delve. (I've met too many dbags and not enough nice ppl in Delve, endgame has always brought out the worst in ppl... but not like Delve.)
And then there are those that just don't have access to the means to get to Delve.

Making the drops be sellable is good... but, again, not all of us have 400M to blow on these items.

And it's... almost adorable... this update for the REMs... because I can see why the devs did it like this instead of just adding to the translurry table.
It's part of the critical failure that they have at understanding the human emotional attachment to the REMs...
They discarded them because they didn't understand that humans create an emotional bond with something that they spend a lot of time with (see GLaDOS and the Companion Cube).
But what the Devs saw when they saw ppl wanting their friends back... was the timesink.
It seems that a lot of ppl are taking this update as a slap in the face...
But I'm sure it wasn't meant as such...

In fact I'm pretty sure... No. I am 100% sure that they Powers that Be thought that this 300 BS item farm was JUST what people were asking for...
TBH, I don't think there'd have been much backlash had the number been something "big but reasonable" like 50 or even 100.
Sure there'd be bitching and moaning... but there'd be a BUNCH of support for it.... at least more than there seems to be now.

And if the 300 BS item were to be maintained... Had these items been "the new geodes/-ites" that drop off of any Adoulin mob but drop in troves in Delve...
Then I don't think there'd be as much resentment either. (That'd be a dreamworld vs normal Dynamis debate/choice.)

One of the reasons for the backlash against requiring to do delve is the ease in which the delve 119 weapons can be gotten.
A "why spend a month getting 300 thingies when I can just spend an hour and have a w/e"...
Other reasons are what I've already mentioned above this "paragraph."

On that note... I actually think the effort might be worth it... all REMs have that +30% damage... so... theoretically... 119 REMs might just blow all the current 119 weapons out of the water...
We won't know for a bit.
But I suspect that the 119REMs will out perform the 119 MegaBoss drops.

It's sadly adorable imo that the Devs thought that the grind is what people missed from the REMs...
But then again...
It seems like the REMs are also the "red headed stepchild".

Let us look at the "legitimate children" who got their iLvs boosted: the skirmish weapons.
IMO, I say that they Yorcia skirmish was probably the BEST thing to happen to Adoulin.
Because it turned these crappy 105 weapons into weapons that were comparable to Delve 113 weapons. (This is also an example of alternative variety. You don't have to Delve to have a 113 weapon anymore.)
And the process of upgrading them was a simple: Trade <item>; check KI: 1/0; if;then spawn <item+1>

And what's even better, is that due to the augments... a skirmish 113 weapon or a 113 delve weapon can be used based upon a player's gear and playstyle.
Some setups the Delve will be superior, others, the skirmish...
But for all intents and purposes... the difference between them is negligible.
(Again, player agency comes to bear here. For instance, I prefer the straight +10str and +acc from a rank15 Bereaver over a comparably augmented Crobaci+1. But I'm Elvaan so... a higher acc from more "fake" skill and augments is more important to me than that sweet +2% DA that comes with the trade offs of higher base dmg and longer delay... There are strengths and weaknesses to using each of these 113 GSs... but it's ultimately up to playstyle and player agency to pick which to use.)

I could argue that the reason why REMs didn't use the simple updater of the translurry is because they are the "redheaded stepchild"...
But that would be wrong I think... I mean... maybe that is why they did it the way they did...
But I honestly believe that they believed they were giving the people what they wanted: a 300 BS item grind.

Because I honestly think that the Powers that Be believed that the complaints against the REM-outdate was a lack of magian trial grinding in Adoulin.





Last thing: Is anyone else worried about Afterglow? I don't even actually think I've seen one... But... I think we might have broken things... Or at least I hope the devs realized this too...
What happens when I make my 99REM a 119REM... and then want to Afterglow it?
Can... that even be done anymore using a 119 version?
Someone needs to find that out because....
That's kinda a big thing to no longer be able to do... >_>

Also last I checked when these weapons were released they were top shelf weapons... that usually required doing what was the current endgame to even have a remote chance at getting them... why should you have the best weapon in the game if you don't work the hardest for it?

[Okipuit]

Greetings,

There have been some comments requesting to make it so all pouches of items that are used to enhance relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons display the number of items when the pouch is opened, mainly so when leaders open them up everyone knows the exact number.

While this is currently possible with pouches of alexandrite, which uses a specialized process, we will look into a system that will allow this number to be displayed for all of the other items as well.

Please give us a bit of time before we can implement this.

[detlef]

That is a good idea.

[Draylo]

Yeah that would be helpful.

[bukadan]

Players that aren't skilled and experienced at their jobs should not be allowed to mindlessly farm the best gear among the fastest and best. You're either good enough or not. Work with what you are given, be able to adapt quickly to things, and go out there and get what you want because if you want it bad enough, why would you let shitty requirements get in your way?

[Malthar]

Here's a better idea. Make delve mobs have a chance to drop singles, NM's inside the fracture always drop a pouch, delve NM's outside the fracture have a chance to drop a pouch or singles, and bosses drop HQ a pouch (1-50 items perhaps).

[Frodnon]

Greetings,

There have been some comments requesting to make it so all pouches of items that are used to enhance relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons display the number of items when the pouch is opened, mainly so when leaders open them up everyone knows the exact number.

While this is currently possible with pouches of alexandrite, which uses a specialized process, we will look into a system that will allow this number to be displayed for all of the other items as well.

Please give us a bit of time before we can implement this.

While you're at it, can you let us list Dynamis currency, Alexandrite, Heavy metal plates, and the new stones, as well as their pouch equivalents on the auction house?

[Raksha]

While this is currently possible with pouches of alexandrite, which uses a specialized process, we will look into a system that will allow this number to be displayed for all of the other items as well.



How about asking the dev team to re-use stuff that works instead of re-inventing the wheel every time they design new content. Its mind-boggling how these new pouches arent basically just a copy/paste of alexandrite pouches anyway. That's the bigger problem here.

[detlef]

While you're at it, can you let us list Dynamis currency, Alexandrite, Heavy metal plates, and the new stones, as well as their pouch equivalents on the auction house?People will use AH bots and you'll never get the discount you're looking for.

[Karah]

Not about wanting a discount, it's mainly about getting inventory back, being able to sell without having to bazaar/shout for days.

And being able to buy without tracking down random people.

While we're requesting things from the AH, how about more than 7 items sellable, just sayin.

[detlef]

Not about wanting a discount, it's mainly about getting inventory back, being able to sell without having to bazaar/shout for days.

And being able to buy without tracking down random people.

While we're requesting things from the AH, how about more than 7 items sellable, just sayin.You're either going to have to sell singles or stacks. You'll never be able to put all your currency on the AH at one time and you can already consolidate your currency of a given type down to two slots (singles and hundreds). How much inventory are you really saving?

[Sp1cyryan]

Greetings,

There have been some comments requesting to make it so all pouches of items that are used to enhance relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons display the number of items when the pouch is opened, mainly so when leaders open them up everyone knows the exact number.

While this is currently possible with pouches of alexandrite, which uses a specialized process, we will look into a system that will allow this number to be displayed for all of the other items as well.

Please give us a bit of time before we can implement this.

Thank you.

This will stop people from trying to sell pouches of the items for a higher average value the average amount of items inside in their bazaars :D

[Karah]

You're either going to have to sell singles or stacks. You'll never be able to put all your currency on the AH at one time and you can already consolidate your currency of a given type down to two slots (singles and hundreds). How much inventory are you really saving?

Quite a bit actually, generally I wait until I have 10 99 stacks to convert them into 100 pieces, not that I would bother ah'ing them as I'm one of the 24/7 Elite Statues that bazaars said items, but it could be beneficial to others who lack this capability.

[Tamarsamar]

Pardon me if I'm being naive here, but unless I'm mistaken, the update to RMEs still doesn't come even close to resolving the enormous effort/reward schism between the RMEs themselves and the Delve weapons. True, it makes them as powerful as the Delve weapons, more or less. Sidegrades, if you will.

Quite frankly, this is the exact same trap SE fell in to when they first released the Empyrean weapons: they release a new batch of overpowered weapons that's both more powerful and easier to acquire than the Relic/Mythic weapons. They gave Relic/Mythics Magian Trials to play catch-up, and eventually Heavy Metal Plates (and so on) were introduced as a bottleneck so that everybody and their mother wouldn't have what were (in general) the best weapons in the game. Eventually, Empyrean weapons settled to be more-or-less on-par (but still coming out a bit ahead on average) with Relic and Mythic weapons in terms of effort put in compared to reward received, and the playerbase was more-or-less satisfied . . .

. . . and then Delve happened. Rinse and repeat.

(Quite funny, thinking back on it. Back then I had advocated weakening the Empyrean weapons themselves, but SE then and now seems way too trigger-shy to nerf much of anything--especially anything that deserves it! So now we even have a whole new system where "Item levels" go up so far as 119 with content being designed to match . . . it's an arms race that's spiraling out of control! As excited as I was for SoA, I am now actually happy that I did not have the opportunity to pre-order it, as I am now withholding my purchase in protest of all this nonsense. Accordingly, I've also been playing more sparingly, but that's been more due to shifting my priorities around . . . okay, aside over.)

Let's just face the facts here: to have a weapon on par with a Delve weapon, you could . . .

* Go through the already notorious processes of acquiring a RME weapon.
* Do every Magian Trial required to level them up to 99.
* Then do Delve anyway (or some kind of ridiculous alternative).
* Then Delve (or ridiculous alternative) some more for the final quest.
* Get your 119 weapon.

Or, you could . . .

* Do Delve.
* Delve some more.
* Get your 119 weapon.

Something's gotta give. Or so the legend says.

[Umichi]

How about asking the dev team to re-use stuff that works instead of re-inventing the wheel every time they design new content. Its mind-boggling how these new pouches arent basically just a copy/paste of alexandrite pouches anyway. That's the bigger problem here.

The final fantasy series has always been about reinventing the wheel. It's why most of their games are popular.

[detlef]

The final fantasy series has always been about reinventing the wheel. It's why most of their games are popular.In fairness, it's also why some of them are perceived in a mixed or negative light.

[Ravenmore]

Pardon me if I'm being naive here, but unless I'm mistaken, the update to RMEs still doesn't come even close to resolving the enormous effort/reward schism between the RMEs themselves and the Delve weapons. True, it makes them as powerful as the Delve weapons, more or less. Sidegrades, if you will.

Quite frankly, this is the exact same trap SE fell in to when they first released the Empyrean weapons: they release a new batch of overpowered weapons that's both more powerful and easier to acquire than the Relic/Mythic weapons. They gave Relic/Mythics Magian Trials to play catch-up, and eventually Heavy Metal Plates (and so on) were introduced as a bottleneck so that everybody and their mother wouldn't have what were (in general) the best weapons in the game. Eventually, Empyrean weapons settled to be more-or-less on-par (but still coming out a bit ahead on average) with Relic and Mythic weapons in terms of effort put in compared to reward received, and the playerbase was more-or-less satisfied . . .

. . . and then Delve happened. Rinse and repeat.

(Quite funny, thinking back on it. Back then I had advocated weakening the Empyrean weapons themselves, but SE then and now seems way too trigger-shy to nerf much of anything--especially anything that deserves it! So now we even have a whole new system where "Item levels" go up so far as 119 with content being designed to match . . . it's an arms race that's spiraling out of control! As excited as I was for SoA, I am now actually happy that I did not have the opportunity to pre-order it, as I am now withholding my purchase in protest of all this nonsense. Accordingly, I've also been playing more sparingly, but that's been more due to shifting my priorities around . . . okay, aside over.)

Let's just face the facts here: to have a weapon on par with a Delve weapon, you could . . .

* Go through the already notorious processes of acquiring a RME weapon.
* Do every Magian Trial required to level them up to 99.
* Then do Delve anyway (or some kind of ridiculous alternative).
* Then Delve (or ridiculous alternative) some more for the final quest.
* Get your 119 weapon.

Or, you could . . .

* Do Delve.
* Delve some more.
* Get your 119 weapon.

Something's gotta give. Or so the legend says.


And other mmos have long grinds for just for just cosmetic. The relics are back where they should be a huge grind you can hold over someone else but not automatically be better then them when it came to doing your role. At 75 and old dyna many were not worth playing FFXI human resources to get a shell to farm up the currency or convincing people to keep grinding cities when all they needed was northlands gear. Even the more dreaded self funded bought all and merc the fights. So get used to it this has been the way it has always been. Franky if dyna hadn't been changed none of this REM crap would be happening now. What changed was even with no gil you could still solo the currency and sell what you didn't need to either cover cost or speed it up with buying currency. If that had never happen most of the Relics holders would be saying let them die since they wouldn't have one.

[Tamarsamar]

If that had never happen most of the Relics holders would be saying let them die since they wouldn't have one.

I want to get Excalibur pretty much just because it's mother*wark* Excalibur! But that means nothing if I can hypothetically get a better/equivalent Sword for far less effort (and without it looking like an ugly blue airplane), because then why bother?

[Ravenmore]

I want to get Excalibur pretty much just because it's mother*wark* Excalibur! But that means nothing if I can hypothetically get a better/equivalent Sword for far less effort (and without it looking like an ugly blue airplane), because then why bother?

Then you never really wanted it. It is slightly better then the runner up and it shows just how much you love the job just the way it was at 75 were people laughed at plds for making it over shield. Only a couple relics were worth in under old dyna when you had to play more human resources then the game. All the other relics and mystics at 75 were trophy items when you took in account all the effort vs reward. Think back how many people loled at someone for making a GS over scythe or polearm at all. Thfs with relic performed the job they were asked to do no better then non relic thf since all they had to do was poke the mob and get kicked but there were thfs that still made it and took pride in the fact they made something that for group content didn't give them much of if any leg up over the other thfs that just had maxed TH.

What made relics so dirt common was the easy at which you could obtain them after the changes to dyna. I don't care that you think a 3 month solo grind is long and hard it is still far easier and incredibly less stressful the building one under the old system. Trophy items exist to give the hardcore players something to grind towards not something the rank and file to realistically aim for in any speed that they would find reasonable, really it is MMO dev 101. You have hardcore players that just eat content at a speed you could never produce enough for so you give them a long grind to keep them playing.

[Tamarsamar]

I know how to read, so there's no need to repeat yourself. I also know that Joytoy was the "serious" sword at 75, so in essence yes I wanted it for the trophy factor more than anything serious.

The problem is that was then, and this is now. Even as "just" a trophy item, SE keeps making bigger and shinier "trophies," with less effort required to get them. This is a valid point to complain about.

[Ravenmore]

Not really. Relics are right were they should be now. Thing is people been wanting old 75 era game back and guess what SE gave you all just that now deal with it.

[Tamarsamar]

Not really. Relics are right were they should be now.

This is where we disagree. While the power level of Relic weapons are, ultimately, about where they should be right now, the effort required to get them isn't anywhere near matching.


Thing is people been wanting old 75 era game back and guess what SE gave you all just that now deal with it.

Also, this particular straw man doesn't apply to me at all. For a variety of reasons, I'm glad that the game changed with the risings of the level cap (how the game changed, of course, could use some work).

[Ravenmore]

This is where we disagree. While the power level of Relic weapons are, ultimately, about where they should be right now, the effort required to get them isn't anywhere near matching.



Also, this particular straw man doesn't apply to me at all. For a variety of reasons, I'm glad that the game changed with the risings of the level cap (how the game changed, of course, could use some work).

Game is limited in what they can do and SE has given people almost everything they have asked for. Hell delve is exactly what the players asked for. Harder fights able to grind points to get rewards after beating once they even dumbed it down after only a short while. Really though the only people that have any right to complain about how hard they worked for relics are those who built them with out abusing a LS and ran a fair and decent Dyna LS back in the day. Because no matter how much work you think it is now only just helping with the herding of the cats for a dyna LS it is no where near what it used to be.

Where SE messed up really is listening to the player base at all. Everything that has came with SoA is what the player base ask for. I know im repeating this over and over but for goodness sake it's the truth. A small group of players hated and were very vocal about the amount of gear swapping we get stat vomit. Other wanted a return to alliance based content after abyssea we got it. People wanted more grind we get it, people complained delve was to hard they nerfed it. Rewards took to long skirmish has direct drops and trade in with drop rates never really seen for a event before and it is "can do it in your sleep" easy. The RNG is only for the augments but the base gear is so good that even oif you don't get perfect augments on the gear it's still good.

So the player base is to blame for everything just as is SE for listening to them in the first place. If they remove the last bit of hardcore content what is left for them. So SE is trying to please everyone and listening to the players far more then they should. Keep saying straw man but if you look back at older post from the end of abyssea up to now you can pick out everything that was asked that is now in game in some form. The only thing they haven't given is reduction REM items.

[Zephrose]

This is where we disagree. While the power level of Relic weapons are, ultimately, about where they should be right now, the effort required to get them isn't anywhere near matching.



Also, this particular straw man doesn't apply to me at all. For a variety of reasons, I'm glad that the game changed with the risings of the level cap (how the game changed, of course, could use some work).

I find it hard to see which side of the debate you are on. If you want the relic weapon, go make it. If you don't want the relic weapon, go find something else to use. It's that simple. Raven is absolutely correct in that the RMEs are right where they need to be now. Back to the grindstone for those that like showing off their Epeen.

SE has, and will continue too, to make content for the quick gamer and the grind gamer. That has been evident since the initial inclusion of RME upgrades and similar systems for gear. SOA is no different... you want something comparable to a RME, get a Delve weapon. If you want something slightly better, work on a RME and see in 4-12months.

SE brought back mindless grinding you all wanted and now you complain about it... Makes this taru laugh pretty hard. GL to you and your pockets :D

[Kaeviathan]

Just posting to remind the developers that the concept for 300 X items for ilevel 119 R/M/E is terrible. I do not want to wait for months, or years, for the items to be affordable. I already cancelled one account, one more bad decision you guys make and I'll just gonna call it quits. So get your act together.

P.S. I am not willing to devote my time killing Matamata to farm my items, and very much less to invite my friends to join me in a "rinse and repeat" situation.

[Riggs]

i don't except this statement that its our fault se made this a grind because we asked for it, frankly even if we did its been so badly implemented if boggles the mind. so what do we have so far, rme weapons that were the best but took a long time to get, se introduce better weapons that for many were easier to get.
RME owners complained.
So for many people here the logical thing to do would be to introduce a short quick quest to bring them back on par with dev weapons and then introduce a more grind development system going forward.

Did they do this? no. all they did was piss of the RME people even more.

[Ravenmore]

i don't except this statement that its our fault se made this a grind because we asked for it, frankly even if we did its been so badly implemented if boggles the mind. so what do we have so far, rme weapons that were the best but took a long time to get, se introduce better weapons that for many were easier to get.
RME owners complained.
So for many people here the logical thing to do would be to introduce a short quick quest to bring them back on par with dev weapons and then introduce a more grind development system going forward.

Did they do this? no. all they did was piss of the RME people even more.

Relics became far to common and could be made solo in little time. Now few will be able to make them fast and the rest will take longer. So yes the root of the problem is SE for the dyna revamps making relics soloable and it is not logical at all for a fast quest to be back on top or on par just would mean more work later on for a MMO with a small staff. You all forget this game is paid for and would even make a good profit with only a couple servers of players, not to mention this no longer their flag ship MMO. Most likely there is many in SE that would like nothing more then the game to die off so any threats of leaving doesn't worry SE at all most of you will end up on 14 anyway. Don't believe me the fanbase has already shown they are blind little lemmings and anything with the name Final fantasy on it will sell and people will play.

Stompa if you know so many people that have no LS to help with farming reforge items why not team up and do the normal runs and if everyone takes one orb you can get many drops in a short amount of time. You get personal drops from each orb used plus the loot pool. You also seem to be forgetting that what you are talking about with the proc system you needed a blm, whm, nin and blu to hit all the procs in abyssea. You could change out the nin with thf for TH and hope the blu had enough M.acc to hit nin drk or had a drink on them. If you didn't have proc it was a long grind for those as well if you soloed them. So it wasn't as easy as you seem to be remembering. People could be waiting to see if they will allow exchanges with old seals before joining pugs. But really at normal the fights are no harder then they were at 75 if you have wkr and skirmish II gear. If you don't even have that how lazy can one get. Skirmish is so mind numbing easy that anyone in byald gear can do T2 or even T3 with out much effort. Then back at 75 with old af it could take a lot of effort trying to get help with some of the more annoying AF fights more so if you were doing them at level on your first job.

You may call it a straw man but people whine and complained about how easy it was to get emp armor even to +2 it. What were you doing when people were saying all that, were you telling them it was a good idea that it was easy and that how the game should be or were in enjoying the game while they were on here being vocal.

[Kaeviathan]

These upgrades should have been quested instead of what they have implemented (Upgraded AFs should also have been quested also). This whole SCNM and buying x 300 items shows that they lack any motivations to be creative. No one wants to put up with doing something very tedious. The games has changed drastically over the recent years, so the grind mindset should have too.

I would like to own mythic great Katana or a empyrean katana, but, the process in obtaining one is too outrageous. There is nothing challenging in obtaining one, It's pure time consuming. When i see someone with an ilevel 119 R/M/E, i don't congratulate them for their success, rather I congratulate them for putting up with you all (the developers).

[Ravenmore]

These upgrades should have been quested instead of what they have implemented (Upgraded AFs should also have been quested also). This whole SCNM and buying x 300 items shows that they lack any motivations to be creative. No one wants to put up with doing something very tedious. The games has changed drastically over the recent years, so the grind mindset should have too.

I would like to own mythic great Katana or a empyrean katana, but, the process in obtaining one is too outrageous. There is nothing challenging in obtaining one, It's pure time consuming. When i see someone with an ilevel 119 R/M/E, i don't congratulate them for their success, rather I congratulate them for putting up with you all (the developers).

That has been the way game has always been and you expect it to change now of all times with a skeleton crew and lower ranking devs that didn't get picked for 14 or some who are pulling double duty. People were saying how much unused content there is, we'll SE did the right thing and is using it. Really if they make the exchange possible in the dec update you won't be complaining then.

[Anjou]

I'd complain then, there's more to do with a story than a mere "Hey peasant, go get me these items and make it snappy"

[Zephrose]

I'd complain then, there's more to do with a story than a mere "Hey peasant, go get me these items and make it snappy"

If you're looking for gear rewarded by story, wipe your characters memory of all the AF quests and go do those again. These were the only relevant pieces obtained through this method. All other gear obtained afterwards was either; kill a bunch of mob until something you need drops or go collect me X-number of 'This' and I'll give you 'That'... which in turn happens to be more killing a bunch of mobs until something you need drops. The game has always been a grind, no matter how big or small. This includes RMEs, which at its very core, is meant to be a grind. This is to keep the players interested so they feel like they have some satisfaction at the end of the whole process.

Really, SE has been playing the 'Peasant, get it Snappy' game ever since... Relics? Yeah, that sounds right.

[detlef]

I'd complain then, there's more to do with a story than a mere "Hey peasant, go get me these items and make it snappy"You want story for each job, each piece of gear? Does it really make sense to invest their efforts into gear that may be obsoleted a few updates later?

If the devs were forced to add a story to gear, they'd probably be introducing relic +2 right around now.

I don't know why people are upset with fetching and collecting. That's what an MMO is.

[Ravenmore]

I'd complain then, there's more to do with a story than a mere "Hey peasant, go get me these items and make it snappy"

Yeah thing is we got the story the first time not much to add to it. Like the post above have stated, why invest all that time into 20 different stories that not only have to be written they have to be programed and tested. That is far more work then the way they went. Even if somehow they didn't outdate them in a couple months it would still be a huge waste of resources for a game that is getting very little. The FFXI you look back at with Rose tinted glasses never existed in the first place you were just to green and new to know better.

[Anjou]

Yeah thing is we got the story the first time not much to add to it. Like the post above have stated, why invest all that time into 20 different stories that not only have to be written they have to be programed and tested. That is far more work then the way they went. Even if somehow they didn't outdate them in a couple months it would still be a huge waste of resources for a game that is getting very little. The FFXI you look back at with Rose tinted glasses never existed in the first place you were just to green and new to know better.

I never said the stories had to be unique, can be the same damn thing that after the first time, the cs' become skipped. Just going to get the items is dull, at least -something- explaining who this NPC is is at least amusing. I do not look back at the game with rose tinted glasses, I look back when thegame wasn't crap, and yes I have the right to leave whenever I choose, but I'm waiting to see what happens this December 11th before that decision is made.

[detlef]

So, my friend who is terrible at making money is nearly halfway to his 119 Masamune. He owes his success to the tried-and-true method of making an effort and not just sitting on his ass complaining about it. Seriously, if this guy can do it, anybody can do it if they try.

[Demon6324236]

Thank you.

This will stop people from trying to sell pouches of the items for a higher average value the average amount of items inside in their bazaars :DOne of us is misunderstanding this. I think they mean that like Alex and Plates, when you open it, it shows the amount that were inside, not that it shows the amount inside before opening it.


Pardon me if I'm being naive here, but unless I'm mistaken, the update to RMEs still doesn't come even close to resolving the enormous effort/reward schism between the RMEs themselves and the Delve weapons. True, it makes them as powerful as the Delve weapons, more or less. Sidegrades, if you will.The way it needed to be, no one wants to return to RME Only shouts, no one, and if they were miles ahead, we know that's all that would happen as soon as a few months pass and a ton of people have level 119s who want them.


The final fantasy series has always been about reinventing the wheel. It's why most of their games are popular.Your post makes no sense, they did something stupid, they made a few pouch like items without doing the same thing with it that they do with every other pouch. Its like multiple buying options. Why must we ask every single time to be able to buy multiple at once!? Forbidden Keys, 1 at a time, had to ask for the choice to buy in multiples. Glasses in Adoulin, same deal, started as single, had to ask for multiple. Seals from Login Campaigns... well, I think you get my point. They keep reinventing the same thing over and over, not in a good way, not with innovation, they just remake the same old thing with the same old flaws and a new name stuck to it, a week later, they say they understand we want a change, then the next update adds something that should have been done in the first place because it should have been expected after having done it in the past with items that worked nearly exactly the same.


I want to get Excalibur pretty much just because it's mother*wark* Excalibur! But that means nothing if I can hypothetically get a better/equivalent Sword for far less effort (and without it looking like an ugly blue airplane), because then why bother?If it were any other weapon or job, I would say maybe you have a point, but no, the point for any Dual Wield job is that you get a much better off-hand which does actually boost your DMG quite a nice bit. But either way, if you want Excalibur just because its Excalibur, then the fact you can get a Buramenk'ah so easily should not matter, it does not make an Excalibur become an Almace, its still Excalibur, and it has a lot of use still, arguably more than some other RMEs since other RMEs which are 2-handed are not as much of an upgrade to the job as 1-handed jobs, since 1-handeds without it are using a 119 and 115~118 or under.


Not really. Relics are right were they should be now. Thing is people been wanting old 75 era game back and guess what SE gave you all just that now deal with it.Agreed, good enough to be on top, not good enough to make everything else look bad by compare. The power is just right.


So, my friend who is terrible at making money is nearly halfway to his 119 Masamune. He owes his success to the tried-and-true method of making an effort and not just sitting on his ass complaining about it. Seriously, if this guy can do it, anybody can do it if they try.Wish him best of luck!

[Dragoy]

So, my friend who is terrible at making money is nearly halfway to his 119 Masamune. He owes his success to the tried-and-true method of making an effort and not just sitting on his ass complaining about it. Seriously, if this guy can do it, anybody can do it if they try.

Considering the current requirements of going from 90 to 99, I think I'd rather not even try. D:

(Referring to the state of Voidwatch etc.)

However, had I actually done Voidwatch, upgraded my weapons to level 99, and procured Seekers of Adoulin, I think I would not see the 300 items too bad, really, considering how commonly available they seem to be. Yes, it's obviously out of proportions when compared to the Menace Inspect— I mean Delve weapons, but I don't care about that too much I guess... They made it clear that they wanted to toss them out the window, so meh!

Until they make Mythics a reasonable thing to go for, I don't see things like this unexpected... sadly.

I'm sure it could be worse. ^^;

[detlef]

Considering the current requirements of going from 90 to 99, I think I'd rather not even try. D:This is a fair assessment and we players must constantly make decisions about whether this, that, or the other thing are worth our time and effort. It's not a bad thing if you feel like your time is better spent doing other things, this game is supposed to cater to as wide an audience as possible. Rather, my point was that none of these hurdles are insurmountable (although I feel like the riftcinder stage of Empyrean weapons is about as close as it gets).