Excited for November's update!

[Tennotsukai]

Hi guys,

Really can't wait for all the cool new toys we'll be receiving in the nov update, but I can't help but to redundantly ask if you guys plan on fixing all of the additional effects ws' s and blue magic, tourbillion, that are broke?

They have been accepted as bugs now twice or so, once from me.

So...pleeeeeease fix these..... pleeeeeaaaaaaseee!

Thank you.

[Rwolf]

I'll join on this thread just because I'd like to see an official response from SE recognizing the additional effects problem of Blue Magic, especially Tourbillion and Barbed Crescent.

They've been submitted multiple times as bugs. They've been brought up a ton of times in their own threads and other threads. They obviously work on the Test Server. I don't understand why they are not responding or fixing it. I haven't seen any negative feedback, so it's not a hard thing to answer.

It's really disheartening. It's one thing to be quiet on things that were planned but never implemented. It's a totally different one to have things in the game clearly broken and no response over years of asking about it.

[Kincard]

Yes, I'm also excited for the November update, it's a first since a while now. But I guess this is also a "repeat another complaint you've stated in multiple threads" thread as if it'll be any different this time. (Guess I'll get a few out of my system: plz make Ninja not suck, and please when you update RMEs take the time to look at a few of the weapons that were never useful to begin with like Tupsimati Gungnir Nagi etc)

Was Tourbillion broken in a specific update? If it works on the Test Server but the not the real ones I have to assume that adjusting Tourbillion was considered at one point but they felt the effect was too powerful, or they put the spells on the Test Server before they decided that the effect was too powerful. This honestly wouldn't be that far fetched to me considering how ridiculous -33% DEF is when Angon only gives -20% and it's one of the only utility abilities that DRG gets, from a merit, and consumes an item. It does seem stupid to make it an Unbridled ability if they've already pretty much negated any use of it by making the only effect it has so inaccurate though.

Barbed Crescent has sort-of a similar broken-ness to it when you consider Exenterator gives a -20 acc debuff when Crescent gives -30 accuracy. This one isn't as bad considering how you can spam the crap out of Exenterator and UL is on a 5-minute timer, but still, it just seems really broken to me to give Blue Mage the most potent debuffs of a type when they already have all these other things they can do. (Do you see any THFs or DRGs able to simultaneously fill the roles of backup healer, AoE sleeper, DPS, etc etc. I'd love to have more stuff to play with on Blue Mage but I actually think Tourbillion especially would be kinda broken if they worked properly)

If it were up to me I'd probably fix the magic accuracy on them and possible lower their effects a little, but then people would probably just complain about how their effects have been weakened.

[detlef]

I don't want to get too excited because something is bound to be a colossal disappointment. However, they've already stated that RMEs will be getting item levels on par with Delve mega boss gear so my biggest concern appears to be addressed. I just hope that the process to upgrade them is balanced so that it takes a good effort but isn't too soul-crushing.

[FaeQueenCory]

Y'all make me sad... because we know that that isn't gonna happen... and getting your hopes up... :(

Maybe when Cait Sith shows up....

But fixing the notoriously broken blue magics...

It's just not gonna happen... :(

At least not next week anyways.
(Though if it does.... YäY!!!)


More on the topic of excitement over the update:
1) I need to know.... these 109 AF1 sets.... >_> will they just poof to 109 in my slip? Will I have to do something to +2 them? If I have to +2 them... can it be like the relic where I skip +1... cause... that suuuuuucks.... Please don't tell me I have to reacquire them from "109" versions of those NMs... cause.... that's... just... bleagh.
2) REM stats! REM STATS! I wanna know what they look like!! We know they're all 119... but... like most mythics have a random +acc stat... is that still there? is that forsaken for the acc from the "fake" skill? What about the mage staffs and club??? And will RUN and GEO get mythics in this update too???
(Mythics really seem to me to have been designed by a mage-minded dev... which is why they aren't usually the best weapon for phys-DD jobs... though DRG is a huge exception... but for any Mage class... they're kinda the best there is, merging everything that those jobs used/needed into one singular stat-stick weapon.)

EDIT:

I don't want to get too excited because something is bound to be a colossal disappointment. However, they've already stated that RMEs will be getting item levels on par with Delve mega boss gear so my biggest concern appears to be addressed. I just hope that the process to upgrade them is balanced so that it takes a good effort but isn't too soul-crushing.
They've already addressed this concern:
No magian trial for the upgrade.... the 99 and the 99-2 versions of them will be insta-iLv-ified during the update.
So... poof! Now your REMs have iLv119!
It's equally good and bad... but mostly good because if you have a 99/99-2... you don't have to do anything...
And if you don't... now there's more incentive to team up with others.

[Leocon]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the new 1HRs finally coming in November lol. Maybe Cait Sith and Atomos by March 2014? Well...I can keep wishing at least.

[Demon6324236]

Seeing as we have no idea what the effects of the new 1hours are, I expect them to suck... I hope I am wrong, I hope they fix all of the broken shitty ones like RDM's super Elemental Seal of uselessness, but whatever, Ill wait for the update, if its good, yay, if not, SE will never change it, and I will simply lose faith once more.

[detlef]

They've already addressed this concern:
No magian trial for the upgrade.... the 99 and the 99-2 versions of them will be insta-iLv-ified during the update.
So... poof! Now your REMs have iLv119!
It's equally good and bad... but mostly good because if you have a 99/99-2... you don't have to do anything...
And if you don't... now there's more incentive to team up with others.You sure about that?


To upgrade them we will not be making a new Trial of the Magians, and we'll be making adjustments so that certain content is not overcrowded for this by having multiple ways to obtain the items you need to upgrade these weapons.Sure makes it sound like there's going to be an item required. The other way to interpret it is that they are adjusting VW, Dynamis, and PW somehow to make it easier to obtain the level 99 version.

[Tennotsukai]

Yes, I'm also excited for the November update, it's a first since a while now. But I guess this is also a "repeat another complaint you've stated in multiple threads" thread as if it'll be any different this time. (Guess I'll get a few out of my system: plz make Ninja not suck, and please when you update RMEs take the time to look at a few of the weapons that were never useful to begin with like Tupsimati Gungnir Nagi etc)

Was Tourbillion broken in a specific update? If it works on the Test Server but the not the real ones I have to assume that adjusting Tourbillion was considered at one point but they felt the effect was too powerful, or they put the spells on the Test Server before they decided that the effect was too powerful. This honestly wouldn't be that far fetched to me considering how ridiculous -33% DEF is when Angon only gives -20% and it's one of the only utility abilities that DRG gets, from a merit, and consumes an item. It does seem stupid to make it an Unbridled ability if they've already pretty much negated any use of it by making the only effect it has so inaccurate though.

Barbed Crescent has sort-of a similar broken-ness to it when you consider Exenterator gives a -20 acc debuff when Crescent gives -30 accuracy. This one isn't as bad considering how you can spam the crap out of Exenterator and UL is on a 5-minute timer, but still, it just seems really broken to me to give Blue Mage the most potent debuffs of a type when they already have all these other things they can do. (Do you see any THFs or DRGs able to simultaneously fill the roles of backup healer, AoE sleeper, DPS, etc etc. I'd love to have more stuff to play with on Blue Mage but I actually think Tourbillion especially would be kinda broken if they worked properly)

If it were up to me I'd probably fix the magic accuracy on them and possible lower their effects a little, but then people would probably just complain about how their effects have been weakened.

It's not just barbed and tourbillion that are broke. Sandspin and few other no one cares about spells are broke as well as some WSs. Barbed Crescent isn't OP btw. Blu has another spell that does -40 acc and silence that AoE. I rarely use either spell since my eva is usually already capped or prefer other spells to set. As for Tourbillion, it is rather potent but unlike the all might angon, it can miss and be resisted.

[Demon6324236]

Hell if they think they are overpowered, you do the smart thing, nerf the effects of the spells and make them stick. What good is it doing us now when 1/100 casts land? Nothing, I would rather them be nerfed and land than to be 'to powerful' and not land at all, at least nerfed we could make use of their weaker effects rather than having a more powerful one which never lands anyways.

[Tennotsukai]

IMO, it's not OP, and I have been told it does not make too much of a difference on new end game bosses due to -dt. I will agree though, anything is better than nothing.

[FaeQueenCory]

You sure about that?

Sure makes it sound like there's going to be an item required. The other way to interpret it is that they are adjusting VW, Dynamis, and PW somehow to make it easier to obtain the level 99 version.
LoL japanese is awkward.
That's in reference to the actual magian trials to upgrade the stuff from 75-99-2.
It's a little hard to read.... but it looks like that it only applied to the WoE weapons?
Or maybe it applies to all magian trials...
But what is obvious is that the current trials... are getting revamped.

What does that mean?
Well... I have no idea.
It seems like the numbers are getting lowered....
But maybe the numbers aren't getting lowered and the NMs involved are getting their repop timers lowered....

Japanese is awkward like this.

EDIT: Lemme just break it up a bit by content.


To upgrade them we will not be making a new Trial of the Magians.

We'll be making adjustments so that certain content is not overcrowded for this by having multiple ways to obtain the items you need to upgrade these weapons.
A comma was used... but I would have used a period or semi-colon... because it makes clear the separation of ideas.

This is the problem with Japanese>>>english.
Both do stupid things...
Japanese doesn't say 90% of what it means... (do you know the difference between "wanna get something to eat" "do you want something to eat" and "wanna try my food"? there is none! They just say the verb "eat".... THEY DON'T EVEN USE THE QUESTION MARK SOUND... I know German... so... this kinda thing bugs the hell out of me about Japanese... forget anything you learn in your class... people don't talk or write in full sentences!)
And English is German trying to operate under Latin grammar rules...
So... things get really dumb when commas show up... because we either use or read them wrong 99% of the time.

Japanese is 100% nuance and context.
German is 100% empirical and complete.
English is 50% of nuance and flat statement.... So translating these two into English is... horrible.
There is just so much that just doesn't work in either... so we make do.
But because Japanese is nothing but nuance... We kinda have to remove the nuance when we translate it... if that makes any sense...

This is getting weird for me to explain...
I need to sleep. Sorry for the rant, but I hope I explained stuff enough so if you don't know Japanese, English and German semi to full fluently... you learned something.

[detlef]

Slycer's translation is pretty clear but hey, maybe it's up for interpretation:


In regards to the method of upgrading the weapon, it will not take the form of a new Magian trial; it will be necessary to obtain items which will obtaintable in multiple ways, in order to avoid concentrating players to specific content.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts-%28NO-DISCUSSION%29?p=5925603&viewfull=1#post5925603

[FaeQueenCory]

Slycer's translation is pretty clear but hey, maybe it's up for interpretation:



http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts-%28NO-DISCUSSION%29?p=5925603&viewfull=1#post5925603
Yes!! See! A semicolon!
That's different than a comma and a conjunction.
At least in english.

The fact that you would cite this is... odd.
It's clear from this that these two statements are separate.
So why would you think that they aren't.

This is why I shy away from using commas when dealing with conjoined sentences.

It's also clear from that announcement (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/37959-Nov.-2013-Version-Update-Information) that the 99 and 99-2 REMs are just poofing to 119iLv.

Your cited revisions to their upgrades obviously is directed at the current magian trials being changed...
To what exactly.... who knows.

Currently all we have is "we're changing them"...
And it's not clear if they are simply lowering numbers... or doing something bigger like lowering the repop time of the required NMs.
It's to make it so there's less competition... so it could be either.
Or it could be something entirely different that we know nothing about.

EDIT post shower:
hmmm.... Japanese annoys the hell out of me.
For the fact that they don't say their words!
It's the German in me...
But thinking about it in the shower... I can see your confusion.
And that fact throws doubt into my mind...

I still think that it's an insta-poof type thing... but it might be something as stupidly simple as a translurry KI trade...
If you think pronouns can be confusing in English.... Japanese rarely ever uses them to be confusing to begin with. >:S

Though I'm still reading the original as "the update won't take a thing to do. we're also making them less competitive to get to 99".

[Kincard]

Blu has another spell that does -40 acc and silence that AoE.
If you're talking about Auroral Drape, that's a blind effect and not an accuracy down effect. If you want them to adjust Hecatomb Wave for all those times you use that I suppose you can go ahead and complain about that as well and I'd no complaints. Honestly, I'm not against them making Barbed Crescent useful either, I'm just pointing out that there seems to be some kind of actual reasoning to the blue magic spells that continue to remain broken.


As for Tourbillion, it is rather potent but unlike the all might angon, it can miss and be resisted.
Isn't the entire complaint that it gets resisted way too much? They either adjust it so that it's consistent enough to be useful or nobody will ever use it (You don't plan strategies around an ability that will only work a small percentage of a time), so this statement makes no sense in the context of assuming that they'll actually bother adjusting it.

The ways I can think of to implement it are:
1. Give a heavy dStat and/or Blue Magic Skill mod for the def-% so you can't just have anyone cast it and have it outdo what was supposed to be a unique Dragoon ability
2. Make it a bit weaker, as other have mentioned
3. Just increase the accuracy and put it in as-is and piss off DRGs worldwide (not like they havent done stuff like that before)
I do agree they should at least give some kind of statement about it since the way it is it just looks like they forgot about it. For the record even if they ever did No.2 people would probably complain anyway, because if you really wanted to DEF Down using your UL you could use Bilgestorm right now and that lands decently, and it gives some other stuff as a bonus.

[Traxus]

Tourbillion never worked on live servers, and the update that added it broke spells that worked fine up until that point (sandspin, hecatomb wave, etc.), which you aren't going to convince anyone were nerfed for balance purposes.

As for bilgestorm, the duration is awful. It lasts like 30s (maybe less?) unresisted.

[Tennotsukai]

If you're talking about Auroral Drape, that's a blind effect and not an accuracy down effect. If you want them to adjust Hecatomb Wave for all those times you use that I suppose you can go ahead and complain about that as well and I'd no complaints. Honestly, I'm not against them making Barbed Crescent useful either, I'm just pointing out that there seems to be some kind of actual reasoning to the blue magic spells that continue to remain broken.


Isn't the entire complaint that it gets resisted way too much? They either adjust it so that it's consistent enough to be useful or nobody will ever use it (You don't plan strategies around an ability that will only work a small percentage of a time), so this statement makes no sense in the context of assuming that they'll actually bother adjusting it.

The ways I can think of to implement it are:
1. Give a heavy dStat and/or Blue Magic Skill mod for the def-% so you can't just have anyone cast it and have it outdo what was supposed to be a unique Dragoon ability
2. Make it a bit weaker, as other have mentioned
3. Just increase the accuracy and put it in as-is and piss off DRGs worldwide (not like they havent done stuff like that before)
I do agree they should at least give some kind of statement about it since the way it is it just looks like they forgot about it. For the record even if they ever did No.2 people would probably complain anyway, because if you really wanted to DEF Down using your UL you could use Bilgestorm right now and that lands decently, and it gives some other stuff as a bonus.

Auroral drape still negates 40 acc..read 60 acc from wiki, but nonetheless; your points are rather invalid. All these additional effects don't remain broke primarily based on tourbillion being too good either. That would not make any sense. I'd love it if SE actually came out and said that though for lols.

Again, the spell works perfectly on the test server as do the others, but on the live servers each of these broken abilities' proc rate remain floored no matter what.

also bilgestorm sucks...just sayin. Short duration with a def down that benthic already offers. K... the other stat downs can be decent but no one cares about them.

Sometimes blu spells just rock while some don't. Lol look at cocoon, that spell is amazing! Then look at feather barrier. I hate you feather barrier! If people complain, let them. This spell is in the game whether they like it or not. If anyone should complain, it's blu's for getting f'd over on this for 4 years.

I apologize if this seems somewhat a derivative reply, but too many people resist these posts aimed at community reps just because idk lol... It's really annoying to deal with though.

[Kincard]

Tourbillion never worked on live servers, and the update that added it broke spells that worked fine up until that point (sandspin, hecatomb wave, etc.), which you aren't going to convince anyone were nerfed for balance purposes.

My point is exactly why would it work on the Test Servers and not on the live servers if it wasn't an intentional adjustment they made to the spell before they implemented it? I guess it's possible they just screwed the spaghetti code somewhere when they copy pasted their test server data over to the real servers. Also I don't see why I'd have a hard time convincing anyone they adjusted anything for inane "balance" issues given that they've done it continuously over the years. These are the same people who think Treasure Hunter balances out Thief's crappy DPS.


Auroral drape still negates 40 acc..read 60 acc from wiki

I'm saying that's not relevant when it's not the same spell effect because accuracy down and blind effects can stack with each other. I also can't find any source for where this -60 figure comes from. I admit that if the -60 figure is accurate that's kinda crazy, but of course it was added back when they were discussing adding some kind of level 99 merit point system so maybe they were planning on giving RDM Blind III at some point. lolidunno


If people complain, let them. This spell is in the game whether they like it or not. If anyone should complain, it's blu's for getting f'd over on this for 4 years.

I'm mostly peeved that you decided to create a general thread for excitement for the next update and decided to head it off by spending most of your post talking about something that's not only not even relevant to the update but has been complained about numerous times and often in better detail on other parts of the forum (like the bug section where its actually relevant). This is coming from someone who loves to bash the XI dev team for continuously doing nonsensical things. Also, what? Tourbilion hasn't been in the game for 4 years, or even half that time.

Really if there's an update-related complaint anyone can voice it's SMNs and them still not getting Cait Sith despite it being promised and teased at for forever. It even had a video preview of it at one point, I don't even play SMN or think Cait Sith would be in any way useful and I still feel insulted.

[detlef]

Though I'm still reading the original as "the update won't take a thing to do. we're also making them less competitive to get to 99".So if they're saying that RME will continue to be upgraded in the future, I'd say it's 99% guaranteed that it'll take some work to keep them up to snuff.

[FaeQueenCory]

So if they're saying that RME will continue to be upgraded in the future, I'd say it's 99% guaranteed that it'll take some work to keep them up to snuff.
Assuming they are. But it looks more like 119 is the cap we're getting.
Which I for one find wonderful.
I don't think we need anymore instantly outdated content. (thinking about the bayld gear)

EDIT:

Really if there's an update-related complaint anyone can voice it's SMNs and them still not getting Cait Sith despite it being promised and teased at for forever. It even had a video preview of it at one point, I don't even play SMN or think Cait Sith would be in any way useful and I still feel insulted.
Thanks for this smn support.... but.... Have you met our Light summon? Carbuncle....
>:[
Cait Sith is a godsend.... especially if that last Nakuaal is gonna be dark alined...

But I have to disagree on one thing: BLUs have every right to be offput by their spell not working.
And they should in no way be discouraged from voicing that disenfranchisement.
If ppl hadn't complained about the BS of REMs getting janked... we wouldn't be getting them 119ified.
And them getting 119ified is a godsend to the populace.
(so long as the +30% dmg doesn't trash the Delve Mega Boss drops... :( I just want more ppl to be able to play together...)

[Kincard]

I'm not even trying to say that the BLU spell accuracy thing is a totally invalid complaint (BLU is one of my main jobs and I'd love to see it addressed too), I'm mostly just annoyed that a thread called "Excited for November's Update" is headed off by a post that's 90% complaining about something only tangentially related (by virtue of the fact that technically everything in the game is related to version updates). It seems like he was less creating the thread for excitement for the update and more like he was looking for a relatively visible venue to complain about something that has come up time and time again.

[MarkovChain]

I didn't see mention of new delve for the incoming VU. I assume (hope ?) they realised the system is mostly fail (pop items not needed and too boring etc ). I've seen them talk about new nakuaals and a new type of NMs though, but no delve sequel still.

[Zumi]

There is 1 new Wildskeeper they already posted it on the website. Kumhau, looks like a frost lion.

[predatory]

For endgame all they added was a wildskeeper, that's how many months now with barely any endgame content? This game is 11 years old, this is not acceptable

[detlef]

For endgame all they added was a wildskeeper, that's how many months now with barely any endgame content? This game is 11 years old, this is not acceptableWhatever event upgrades RMEs will become very popular out of necessity.

[MarkovChain]

For endgame all they added was a wildskeeper, that's how many months now with barely any endgame content? This game is 11 years old, this is not acceptable

That's what you get for giving oatixur to the entire server and releasing a pop NM system that doesn't serve any purpose (last I checked, outside NM drop less armor, less plasm than inside NMs).

[FaeQueenCory]

I didn't see mention of new delve for the incoming VU. I assume (hope ?) they realised the system is mostly fail (pop items not needed and too boring etc ). I've seen them talk about new nakuaals and a new type of NMs though, but no delve sequel still.
I too really hope that Delve isn't the new SKY/Dynamis/SEA/and all the rest... there were a bunch weren't there?

I even like VW more than Delve... even with the crap droprates... at least it gave me a reason to do it more than a handfull of times.

Theoretically there'll be 7 delve fractures to match the 7 WKRs....
But...
It's getting really confusing about if they will all be CL20 or not.
They might even be debating that, hence why the tree and thunderbird lack fractures atm.

[Draylo]

Extremely excited!! New BLU spells goooo

[Mefuki]

I'm pretty excited as well. Tons of new stuff (NM monstrosity time!) and fixes to stuff.