Job Specific Capes recently added in New Areas - New Exchange System

[Zhronne]

In the latest big patch 3 new areas were added to the game:
1) Marjami Ravine
2) Yorcia Weald
3) Dho Gates

Monsters, Soul Pyres and Reives in these 3 zones have a chance to drop one of 22 Job Specific Capes.
The rate is pretty low and it was meant from the developers as a system to promote doing reives and various activities in the 3 new zones.

I think enough time has passed since then, and now most people just obtained what they needed or gave up trying to.
I hence propose a new system.
Similar to what was recently done for Abyssea Feet equipment, there should be an NPC that in exchange for any 3 Capes, gives you a chance to pick 1 cape of your choice.

[FaeQueenCory]

How a bout a job check?
Like the first cape to drop (so it doesn't actually increase droprate) is the cape for the job you're on.

This would promote more job types in Rieves (and make getting the actual cape you want a whole mess easier).

[Zhronne]

It's a good idea but honestly too "different" from how everything else in the game works and too complicated to code it.
Why even bother? I'm sure a lot of the people who even cared about capes got a lot which they do not want, and can keep getting ones they do not want/need.

Allowing to trade them, even if at a non-equal rate like the suggested 3:1, sounds fair to me.


P.S.
R.I.P. Masaki Koh, miss him so much ; ;

[predatory]

How about increasing the drop rate on the capes? I have a friend who managed to get all 22 capes, and from doing those reives alone managed to do wkrs every Sunday, and ended up with 1.5 million bayld. That seems more like a way to discourage casual players from going out to do those reives than it does to encourage them.

I'm not proposing a 100% drop rate because that's just lame, but why not a 20% drop rate? I bet that would get people in those reives more consistently

[Zhronne]

but why not a 20% drop rate?
If you want an answer to this question, I already replied in my first post.
Wether it was right or wrong, the reasoning behind this choice from SE is that the capes weren't a goal for them, but a mean to reach a goal.
This goal was to promote people into doing activities (Reives mainly, others as well) into those 3 new zones.
Things didn't perfectly play out as they wanted since the player base condensated into Marjami instead of more or less equally distributing among the 3 zones, but in spite of that I'd dare to say they pretty much achieved their goal.

It's just that it couldn't last forever, and at this point aside a small minority of people still spamming reives in hope of getting the cape they want, the majority of people either got what they wanted or they didn't. Whatever the outcome, they stopped bothering.

This is exactely why I'm saying that this is the right time to offer an exchange. It would be very simple on their end to implement and they wouldn't have to change absolutely nothing with the current mechanics.
Drop rate is not that bad imho. Sure it's not good, but with a rate like the one you suggested people would have stopped hunting capes in 2 days, while clearly they wanted a long term activity to keep players busy with.
What's bad is that with so many capes and with no possibility to choose (and with the mentioned low rate) it can be quite frustrating to keep hunting for them.

I think offering an exchange system is the most simple, quick and efficient way for them to handle the situation without major changes in balance one way or another and without losing too much time or effort in it (they'd rather focus their reduced manforce in other fields of the game)

[predatory]

The exchange system is a great idea, but in order to implement it, people would actually have to get them to drop. I spent a day and a half in Marjami Ravine and only got one cape to drop, and decided to not spend all my ingame time going after those capes. Now I just farm Marjami for the bayld I need every weekend to do WKRs. It wasn't really much of a loss for me either way as I use Molluska mantle for pld, Libeccio Mantle for my rng, and Atheling for my dnc, it would just have been kind of cool to have one for those jobs

[Byrth]

Looks like capes will be added as a potential reward (for when you receive a R/Ex item you already have) from WKRs:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/35776-Wildskeeper-Reive-Feedback?p=475188&viewfull=1#post475188

[Zhronne]

Since they could already drop (I got my RUN mantle from Yumcax) I assume they mean something else? Not 100% but something high?

[Byrth]

They mean that the first drop slot will potentially load a cape now. In the past it was only the other drop slots that could be capes, but the first slot was frequently empty because you already had the r/ex item that the game picked for you.

[Zhronne]

That's potentially a good or a bad change. If it's a system based on priorities (i.e. cape gets rolled only if you already have the item that came out) then it's awesome, but I seriously doubt it works like that.

If it just increases the potential loot pool for the first slot adding 22 more items (capes) it will just become an infernal nightmare to get the item you want from that boss...

[predatory]

I think it's better than what's in place now, but then it's something we're going to have to find out by actually doing the WKRs

[Rwolf]

I don't like the idea of an exchange system, unless they take off the rare tag which they have on the capes. I have all 22 jobs leveled which a lot of players do and exchanging capes I want to get another doesn't really solve anything. I'm sure it's a great idea to people who don't care about most of the capes, but I don't like it.

I'm confused also about how they worded capes dropping from Wildskeeper Reives.


To eliminate this and make it so every time you participate you receive a reward, we will be adding new accessories that are not rare/ex, the job specific back pieces you can obtain from Marjami Ravine and Yorcia Weald reives, and other items as new rewards.

If this means it will load in the top slot with the Naakaul gear then that's lame. Having a 16.6%-ish chance at getting Naakaul gear you want is one thing. Changing that to a 3.5%-ish chance by adding 22 capes to the 6 items is another.

It's definitely not better. The primary reason for doing these is for rewards from the Naakauls. Adding a ton of fodder in the same slot makes it worse. I still want my capes, and I still find it making things worse.

They are totally different objectives that don't need to be mashed together to make it harder to get either item. It's lowering the chance of getting the cape I want AND the Naakaul gear I'd want.

Now... if it means that they are making the capes and other new accessory items load in it's own slot, then that's amazing and I'm all for it.

[Tptn937]

I've gone 20 hours of nonstop reives following the communities accepted standard of earning 3 evaluations without a cape. Overall I've had 15 capes drop to me. I don't play 10 of the jobs that I've received capes for, and I still need to earn 3 more specific capes before I'm done. This isn't fun.

[Karah]

I don't see why Seekers capes should have a totally 100% random drop system when previous expansions had 100% targeted drop systems for similar JSE items.

Uh, this is pretty obvious. If you actually got the things you wanted, you'd stop trying to earn them, duh?

It's another artificial "difficulty" placed to keep us playing, to keep colonization rates up, to keep Hurkan """reasonable""" (many air quotes here).

If you weren't spending days on end trying for "that one cape I REALLLLLY want" colonization rate would be 0, colonization would be completely dead circa Campaign battles.

[FaeQueenCory]

It's a good idea but honestly too "different" from how everything else in the game works and too complicated to code it.
Why even bother? I'm sure a lot of the people who even cared about capes got a lot which they do not want, and can keep getting ones they do not want/need.

Allowing to trade them, even if at a non-equal rate like the suggested 3:1, sounds fair to me.
It's not too hard, its a simple if;then code... very basic.
There's a few things in the game that checks for if;thens, so it's not completely unheard of.... just not utilized for something like this. (off the top of my head, SCH unlock quest has an if;then check for job and 2hr being present.)


P.S.
R.I.P. Masaki Koh, miss him so much ; ;
It's actually the only reason why I want the 119 dagger from Delve...
my thf is only for TH, and my dnc is only to feel fa~bu~lo~us...
But having a Koh dagger... would be nice. TuT

EDIT:

They should have done a Boghertz quest for this. You find a 'tattered cape' after a rieve, 5% drop on a high-score evaluation. You take it to Guslam, or a SoA version of him, and you get the "could it be........is this truly....the work of Boghertz...." type of stuff, and are told that to activate the ancient power of the cape, you have to earn 100k~ xp while wearing it in rieves. It then transforms into the cape for the job you first brought the tattered cape to the npc on.
The stats on these capes are OK, not earth-shattering, and certainly not good enough to justify the Las Vegas randomness of it all. In aby, if you wanted Orison cape, you went and kicked that rabbit NM around for a few hours. I don't see why Seekers capes should have a totally 100% random drop system when previous expansions had 100% targeted drop systems for similar JSE items.
This would work too.
It's more work than just "bring that job to the rieve" but it DOES give the player more control over which cape to get.

[Zhronne]

I don't like the idea of an exchange system
I don't get why you're against the idea.
I do get the fact that this solution wouldn't be beneficial for a situation like yours, but it wouldn't be detrimental either.

If you were to say "this solution doesn't ease the situation for me" I could agree, but it's not like it would make it worse, whereas it would ease it for a large number of other players.
In light of this, I can understand a neutral or indifferent position from you, but I cannot understand your strong opposition.

[Zhronne]

I've gone 20 hours of nonstop reives following the communities accepted standard of earning 3 evaluations without a cape. Overall I've had 15 capes drop to me. I don't play 10 of the jobs that I've received capes for, and I still need to earn 3 more specific capes before I'm done. This isn't fun.
Tips:
If you're looking for the most efficient time/effort way to get capes, aim for Lair Reives and not Colonization Reives.
When you do, make sure to get at least 3 evaluation before you end the Reive. This is not *necessary* to get the cape (can get them with zero evaluations) but it greatly increases the odds of getting one up to the point that it's not even worth to end a Reive before you achieved that.

[Rwolf]

I don't get why you're against the idea.
I do get the fact that this solution wouldn't be beneficial for a situation like yours, but it wouldn't be detrimental either.

If you were to say "this solution doesn't ease the situation for me" I could agree, but it's not like it would make it worse, whereas it would ease it for a large number of other players.
In light of this, I can understand a neutral or indifferent position from you, but I cannot understand your strong opposition.

I disagree, it is detrimental to add anything that penalizes you for playing one of the game's core functions. Class changes.

I have a strong opposition to any ideas that propose a solution to a problem that everyone wants but only to serve a few players needs. Your solution isn't for a large number of players. Most players have all jobs at 99 and actually at least decently gear them. I also have a strong opposition of changing the capes into this exclusively easy for a few capes, meaning exclusivity to jobs. It will immediately be a case of which capes are better for groups. Meaning why haven't you turned in these capes to get this for your group?

A large amount of players agree with the cape dispense rate. Only a small group of players don't have or don't care about most of the jobs in the game. I wouldn't say "this solution doesn't ease the situation for me" because it's not just about me. There are plenty of people looking for a good majority, if not all the capes.

The real question is why are you so opposed to a solution that still embraces you getting the capes, but provides it not just to you, but everyone?

[Kwate]

I disagree, it is detrimental to add anything that penalizes you for playing one of the game's core functions. Class changes.

I have a strong opposition to any ideas that propose a solution to a problem that everyone wants but only to serve a few players needs. Your solution isn't for a large number of players. Most players have all jobs at 99 and actually at least decently gear them. I also have a strong opposition of changing the capes into this exclusively easy for a few capes, meaning exclusivity to jobs. It will immediately be a case of which capes are better for groups. Meaning why haven't you turned in these capes to get this for your group?

A large amount of players agree with the cape dispense rate. Only a small group of players don't have or don't care about most of the jobs in the game. I wouldn't say "this solution doesn't ease the situation for me" because it's not just about me. There are plenty of people looking for a good majority, if not all the capes.

The real question is why are you so opposed to a solution that still embraces you getting the capes, but provides it not just to you, but everyone?

I think its safe to say most people have 5+ jobs at 99. Everyone is entitled to their view on cape drops rather its in line with yours or not. Blanket statements like EVERYONE has all 99 jobs, how do you know? or most people don't have an issue with cape drops, how do you know? You mentioned "I disagree" alot in your post, yet try to squeeze EVERYONE or LARGE GROUPS to make your point. You have your opinion....so does everyone else.

[Rwolf]

I think its safe to say most people have 5+ jobs at 99. Everyone is entitled to their view on cape drops rather its in line with yours or not.

I'm sorry, where did I state he wasn't entitled to his viewpoint? He asked me why I don't agree. I answered it. Stop trying to create an issue where there isn't one just to start a debate.


Blanket statements like EVERYONE has all 99 jobs, how do you know? or most people don't have an issue with cape drops, how do you know?

Have you never taken a look at the census data for FFXI? Again, stop trying to create an issue where there isn't one. You contradict yourself. You defend the OP saying he is entitled to his viewpoint, yet discredit me because I oppose it.


You mentioned "I disagree" alot in your post, yet try to squeeze EVERYONE or LARGE GROUPS to make your point. You have your opinion....so does everyone else.

I use "I statements" because it is my opinion. It would be foolish to claim it otherwise and no where did I ever state it wasn't my opinion.

The word "everyone" generally is a blanket term, no matter how you put it. It's quite obvious the majority of people aren't thrilled about the current drop rate of capes in all communities on FFXI. Otherwise they wouldn't mention adjusting it due to feedback.

Every time I mention "everyone" and "large groups", it's not paired with my opinion. It simply states facts.
Majority player base feels there is an issue with current method and rate of capes. Fact.
Most players have all jobs at 99. Fact.

Don't dissect my post in an attempt to discredit me and twist my words. I don't agree with the OP and I'm entitled to explain and defend that. I didn't attack the OP, I disagreed and stated why I do. The OP questioned my staunch stance on the disagreement and I explained that as well and posed my own question back to the OP. We are being civil here. No one is being discredited for posting an idea. He is entitled to his opinion. I am entitled to mine. We both are entitled to use facts to collaborate to our opinions.

You on the other hand, are taking it to a different level altogether.

[Demon6324236]

Even if everyone had all jobs at 99, and everyone wanted to gear their jobs well, that doesn't mean you need every cape, many of them have little to no use, I would trade away every RDM cape I ever got if I could because it sucks. Really, the idea of needing every cape only goes to 1 group of people, the people who want everything for their collection, those people who hoard everything special on a mule, and while I have no issue with people who do, there's no reason to avoid implementing something helpful to most people just so you can cater to people who want it all and don't want to trade any away.

[evanwimbish]

Has anyone actually received a cape from anything other than doing the Lair/colonization reives? Back when they did the double exp campaign and it was 1000-2000 experience points per enemy in M.Ravine or whatever its called.. I killed at least 700 enemies and received 0 capes... (not trying to start any discussions other than '' yes I received a cape, or no I have yet to receive a cape in these areas")

[Demon6324236]

So far as I know its Lair, Colonization, Wildkeeper, and the sparkles from normal mobs, however I have only gotten 1 cape, DNC, and it was from a WK, I cant confirm the Sole Pyres or whatever.

[FaeQueenCory]

Even if everyone had all jobs at 99, and everyone wanted to gear their jobs well, that doesn't mean you need every cape, many of them have little to no use, I would trade away every RDM cape I ever got if I could because it sucks. Really, the idea of needing every cape only goes to 1 group of people, the people who want everything for their collection, those people who hoard everything special on a mule, and while I have no issue with people who do, there's no reason to avoid implementing something helpful to most people just so you can cater to people who want it all and don't want to trade any away.
EXACTLY!
I do not have every job at 99... only WAR, WHM, BLM, SMN, RUN, THF, and DNC.
Because there's the jobs I like to play: SMN and RUN.
The jobs that are useful for pts: WHM and BLM.
And the jobs I leveled to 99 for one reason: WAR (for combat skill ups) and THF (for TH).
Most players I know DON'T have every job at 99... because they don't want to play those jobs they don't like playing.
(I know my BRD is never leaving 50... cause... fuck that. I HATE brd. I only leveled it to 50 for /brd abyssea procs.)
And even for the ppl who want EVERY cape...
Implementing a trading system wouldn't hurt them.
Cause they will just spend more time getting all the capes for completion after they get the capes they really want.
Because that's what completionists do.

So far as I know its Lair, Colonization, Wildkeeper, and the sparkles from normal mobs, however I have only gotten 1 cape, DNC, and it was from a WK, I cant confirm the Sole Pyres or whatever.
Better than me. I have 0 capes.... but then I haven't been back there since they first went gold.... (too many ppl = not enough evals = no capes ever)

[detlef]

Somebody actually came along and recommended killing mobs in zones like Dho Gates as a legitimate way to farm capes... Just no. It's pretty much reives or bust.

[Zhronne]

I disagree, it is detrimental to add anything that penalizes you for playing one of the game's core functions.
How does adding a function that you're not interested in create a dentrimental aspect compared to now?
I don't see how the situation would change for you. If anything it wouldn't change at all and I could understand such a point of view, but dentrimental?


but only to serve a few players needs
Define "few". Statistically it's the large majority of players, not "a few". Altough, of course, it surely is not the totality of the player base.



Most players have all jobs at 99
I think you are probably misenterpreting data from census and other FFXI social platform. Players with all jobs at 99 and especially those interested in keeping them all highly equipped and up to date are a large minority.
Not sayin these players do not deserve attention of course, but defining them "the majority" is quite wrong.



The real question is why are you so opposed to a solution that still embraces you getting the capes, but provides it not just to you, but everyone?
I'm a bit lost here, would you mind rephrasing your concept with different words so I can better understand what you were trying to convey through it?

[Zhronne]

there's no reason to avoid implementing something helpful to most people just so you can cater to people who want it all and don't want to trade any away.
Even if there are people who want to gather everything, the system proposed in this thread wouldn't stop them to continue what they are doing now: doing reives to gather all capes.

The fact the game could offer a new possibility doesn't mean that someone would suddenly brainwash them to force them to use it.
It would not benefit them, this is safe to say, but it would not change their situations. Things would simply stay as they are now for such people, i.e. they would continue to gather the capes so they can get them all.

[predatory]

I don't like the idea of an exchange system, unless they take off the rare tag which they have on the capes. I have all 22 jobs leveled which a lot of players do and exchanging capes I want to get another doesn't really solve anything. I'm sure it's a great idea to people who don't care about most of the capes, but I don't like it.

I'm confused also about how they worded capes dropping from Wildskeeper Reives.



If this means it will load in the top slot with the Naakaul gear then that's lame. Having a 16.6%-ish chance at getting Naakaul gear you want is one thing. Changing that to a 3.5%-ish chance by adding 22 capes to the 6 items is another.

It's definitely not better. The primary reason for doing these is for rewards from the Naakauls. Adding a ton of fodder in the same slot makes it worse. I still want my capes, and I still find it making things worse.

They are totally different objectives that don't need to be mashed together to make it harder to get either item. It's lowering the chance of getting the cape I want AND the Naakaul gear I'd want.

Now... if it means that they are making the capes and other new accessory items load in it's own slot, then that's amazing and I'm all for it.

But what if they're talking about adding it to the pebble slot?

[Byrth]

I have 2/22 capes, both for jobs that I do not play and am unlikely to ever consider playing.

[Rwolf]

How does adding a function that you're not interested in create a dentrimental aspect compared to now?
I don't see how the situation would change for you. If anything it wouldn't change at all and I could understand such a point of view, but dentrimental?

It penalizes one of the biggest mechanics in this game. Class changes and the ability to have them all. This isn't merits or specialization. It's armor. You haven't answered my question as to why you're against a solution that not only gives you what you want but makes it so all interests and goals are satisfied. It would be one thing if I was against changing cape obtainment from it's current mechanics. Why you're against something that does the same goal? (i.e. getting the cape you want) All I see is you not wanting it to be something other than the result of an idea you proposed.


Define "few". Statistically it's the large majority of players, not "a few". Altough, of course, it surely is not the totality of the player base.

Statisically a large majority of players agree with your idea? What data could you possibly be basing that on?


I think you are probably misenterpreting data from census and other FFXI social platform. Players with all jobs at 99 and especially those interested in keeping them all highly equipped and up to date are a large minority.
Not sayin these players do not deserve attention of course, but defining them "the majority" is quite wrong.

I'm not misinterpreting raw data. The majority of players have all jobs at 99. That's a fact. I'm not disagreeing with you that there are people who agree with you and would prefer your idea. I don't agree with your idea because you're proposing a solution that only resolves it for people who don't mind sacrificing capes they have earned.


I'm a bit lost here, would you mind rephrasing your concept with different words so I can better understand what you were trying to convey through it?

Sure, I can do that. The goal of your desired effect and mine are the same. Getting the JSE cape you desire. I expand that idea to say why just solve the issue for players like yourself? Why not an idea with the same goal, but changed to fit so you aren't penalized from participating in this for wanting to keep a JSE cape.

I see where this idea falls in some similarity to SE adding the same function for Empyrean feet. Though there's two big differences.

1. Empyrean feet are a much higher rate of acquisition than JSE capes.
2. Empyrean feet are a base item that is upgradable, making any additional base feet that are the same useful.

As I stated previously, if they made capes storable I would be all for your idea. Without it being storable, it makes the idea only serve some players not all. Whereas an example such as Empyrean feet acquisition is a process that serves everyone.

[Rwolf]

But what if they're talking about adding it to the pebble slot?

It already is a chance to load in the Pebble slot. I've already acquired two JSE capes this way. However I did say "If this means". There is no way to really know for absolute certain what they mean until it's implemented or explained in detail.

[Rwolf]

Even if everyone had all jobs at 99, and everyone wanted to gear their jobs well, that doesn't mean you need every cape, many of them have little to no use, I would trade away every RDM cape I ever got if I could because it sucks. Really, the idea of needing every cape only goes to 1 group of people, the people who want everything for their collection, those people who hoard everything special on a mule, and while I have no issue with people who do, there's no reason to avoid implementing something helpful to most people just so you can cater to people who want it all and don't want to trade any away.

There's also no reason to avoid implementing something helpful to everyone.

[Zhronne]

It penalizes one of the biggest mechanics in this game.
Yes you said in you previous post. What I tried to inquire is how does it penalize?
It would not change what you are doing now.
Are you farming capes trying to get them all for all your jobs? I assume you are.
Adding a trade system wouldn't change anything to you. You just would be able to apply your freedom of choice and keeping all your capes instead of trading them.
How would this penalize you?


You haven't answered my question as to why you're against a solution
Which solution? I don't think I've stated I'm opposing any solution at all in this thread? Maybe I expressed some perplexities but I doubt I went over that.
What are you talking about exactely?



Statisically a large majority of players agree with your idea? What data could you possibly be basing that on?
Huh? "Statistically" was an adjective related to the "few people" which you were talking about.
"Statistically" they are not "a few" but actually the majority of current players.
I never said that "statistically" everybody agrees with anybody else in this thread, or never dared to. Where did you get that idea? o.O



I'm not misinterpreting raw data. The majority of players have all jobs at 99.
Which data are you using to support the fact that the "large majority" of players fits that position? How is that "a fact" to quote your words? I mean, maybe I just missed something, not claiming it cannot be, but if you're so sure about that, which looks highly unlikely to me, I'd love to see some data.



Sure, I can do that. The goal of your desired effect and mine are the same.
What is "yours" exactely? I think I've only read you about opposing stuff, expressing perplexities about Naakuals etc? Did you actually propose something? D:
If you did I'm afraid I missed it and I beg your pardon.

[Rwolf]

Yes you said in you previous post. What I tried to inquire is how does it penalize?
It would not change what you are doing now.
Are you farming capes trying to get them all for all your jobs? I assume you are.
Adding a trade system wouldn't change anything to you. You just would be able to apply your freedom of choice and keeping all your capes instead of trading them.
How would this penalize you?

It adds content that puts you at a disadvantage for wanting to obtain items versus very easily adding a similar system that doesn't remove items.



Which solution? I don't think I've stated I'm opposing any solution at all in this thread? Maybe I expressed some perplexities but I doubt I went over that.
What are you talking about exactely?

LOL. I can't believe you cut off the rest of my sentence to try and make a counter point. The whole sentence is

"You haven't answered my question as to why you're against a solution that not only gives you what you want but makes it so all interests and goals are satisfied."

Bolded is the part you decided to quote me on.


Huh? "Statistically" was an adjective related to the "few people" which you were talking about.
"Statistically" they are not "a few" but actually the majority of current players.
I never said that "statistically" everybody agrees with anybody else in this thread, or never dared to. Where did you get that idea? o.O

sta·tis·tics (st-tstks)
noun
1. (used with a sing. verb) The mathematics of the collection, organization, and interpretation of numerical data, especially the analysis of population characteristics by inference from sampling.

There is no data you're providing that shows the majority of current players supports your idea. I get the idea because you keep saying words like "statistically" and "actually" which means, fact, reality, hard data to back it up.


Which data are you using to support the fact that the "large majority" of players fits that position? How is that "a fact" to quote your words? I mean, maybe I just missed something, not claiming it cannot be, but if you're so sure about that, which looks highly unlikely to me, I'd love to see some data.

The large majority of players have jobs at 99? It's called the Vana'diel Census data. Which is true statistics.


What is "yours" exactely? I think I've only read you about opposing stuff, expressing perplexities about Naakuals etc? Did you actually propose something? D:
If you did I'm afraid I missed it and I beg your pardon.

I figured eventually you would try to make it personal that I'm not agreeing with your exact idea. It's constructive criticism. So you make this wild accusation that all my posts are purely just to oppose stuff just to make the defense that I must be just trolling your thread.

I proposed that the idea should be expanded by either making the JSE capes storable to support the direct idea. Or change the idea to not only work for players willing to trade capes for other capes, but ones who aren't.

All I've seen is you make this into some tirade about not expanding your idea and taking it personal. Ignore any questions of my own while I've answered every one of yours in an attempt to have a discussion about the mutual desire for increased JSE cape distribution. There's no point in continuing to speak on it because there is no discussion happening. At the rate you're already going it will just turn into more personal comments because some disagrees with your idea.

[Demon6324236]

There's also no reason to avoid implementing something helpful to everyone.May I point out, I am not against helping everyone, but I support helping anyone, you on the other hand are seemingly against helping people if your not included in the mix. Now I understand that you likely seem this way because you want them to spend time on something which helps everyone, not something which helps only some people, but if we have to pick between nothing being done, or something that helps some, but not all, people, I will take the latter every time.

[Demon6324236]

It adds content that puts you at a disadvantage for wanting to obtain items versus very easily adding a similar system that doesn't remove items.What? How does it put you at a disadvantage for wanting items? Your not making much sense here... it doesn't benefit you, so it harms you? Is that the logic here?


The large majority of players have jobs at 99? It's called the Vana'diel Census data. Which is true statistics.The large majority of players have jobs at 99. Fact.

The large majority of players have all jobs at 99. Not Fact.

Your original statement was that most people have all jobs at 99, not that most people have multiple jobs at 99, vastly different claims, and so far as I know, the census does not say most people have all jobs at 99...

[FaeQueenCory]

The large majority of players have jobs at 99. Fact.

The large majority of players have all jobs at 99. Not Fact.

Your original statement was that most people have all jobs at 99, not that most people have multiple jobs at 99, vastly different claims, and so far as I know, the census does not say most people have all jobs at 99...
Quite so.
The Vanadiel Census data shows that their is the majority of jobs at 49/50, and at 99...
If we were to assume that everyone had jobs according to that....
Then everyone has both all jobs at 99 and all jobs at 50.

This is why stat should probably be required for all highschool graduates... if not all majors in college...
Even if it was the most horribly boring and mind-numbingly tedious class I have ever taken....
I find that it has proved useful for actual comprehension and understanding of raw statistical data, as is present in the Census.

And just speaking from those who I know, I think I only know two people on my server (Odin) that have all jobs at 99.
But that's just the people I know.
Obviously I don't know everyone.
But all the rest of the people I know only have a handful of 99s.

And even those two that I know with all 99s... They aren't perfectly/ideally geared for each of them.

There was a friend of mine who no longer plays... who had not only all 99s... but also all in empy+2 and full AF and relic sets for everything...
Why did he have it all?
Because he's been playing for 11 years and decided why the hell not.

The fact that I know this person... tells me that there are players out there who do, not only have all 99s, but also have them decently geared.
But by no stretch of the imagination would I ever even come close to asserting (or even assuming for that matter) that everyone who has all 99s has each job perfectly geared.
That's going further than even the asinine assumption that everyone has all jobs at 99.

Adoulin has a HUGE flaw with all the content.
Rieves.
Skirmish.
WKRs.
Delve.
All of it has one huge flaw.

And it's NOT iLvs. (I actually think it's a novel idea... but needs the bugs worked out... which is happening... so... yeah.)

It's that there is no longevity to ANY of it.

I have WHM, BLM, SMN, RUN, THF, WAR and DNC at 99.
I don't plan on leveling anything else for a long while. (and that's only a maybe... and if I do... it'll only be GEO and/or SCH)
I got the gear I wanted from WKRs. Only did them 1x... and got all I needed from the drops and the redemption of the KIs.
I got all the gear I needed from Skirmish as well.
And am currently working on getting the measly handful of gear that I want from Delve. (that's what I WANT... I don't even need half of what I want... Sangoma ring? sure it's nice... but there are plenty of functional alternative rings that I already have. That MAB necklace? I don't really NEED it... I have 8bajillion MAB on my BLM as is... AND I already have stoicheron medal... that 119 dagger? I only play DNC for feeling fa~bu~lo~us and THF is for TH only.... I just want it because it had Koh in it's name....)

And once I get the 5ish pieces of Delve gear that I want.... what then?
Adoulin offers me nothing.

Oh sure... there will be four more delve fractures offering me a possible 2-8 pieces of gear that I may want....
But even then... it's just gear that I want as opposed to actually needing...
Adoulin has a glaring flaw with longevity....
And this whole cape thing is just a poor excuse to create longevity.

Exactly the same way that the random drops for empy boots were a trivial way to create longevity.

Hence why there really should be an exchange NPC at the VERY least.

[predatory]

FaeQueenCory
Adoulin has a HUGE flaw with all the content.
Rieves.
Skirmish.
WKRs.
Delve.
All of it has one huge flaw.

And it's NOT iLvs. (I actually think it's a novel idea... but needs the bugs worked out... which is happening... so... yeah.)

It's that there is no longevity to ANY of it. My thoughts on this are they messed with the system, and made it too easy. Pre-SoA items we crafted, quested, bought from npcs, or obtained as drops. In comes SoA with it's unique system where you don't need to do actually do delve, (unless you're after delve boss pieces), to get delve gear. You can fight the nm outside of fracture for a KI that allows you to buy the equipment from an npc with plasm that you can get from shards, which you can either farm on your own, or buy off the AH. Which makes delve meaningless to a lot of people.

Skirmish, Skirmish to me is the great give away, you only have to do it a few times to get the best armor in the game, (well situationally anway, I use empy +2, Seriyus Kote, relic hat, and thurandaut trousers as my tp pieces, and swap a couple pieces out for Iuitl for ws), which is a relief because it is so mind numbingly boring.

Reives. The only reason to do reives is so you can get the bayld to do the only fun thing they added with SoA, and that's Wildskeeper Reives. Some people us them for farming, (I make more gil in 3 hours farming to make silent oils, and then crafting them, then I made in a day in a half doing Marjami Ravine colonization and lair reives), some do them for capes, to me theyre just a waste of time

Edited because i wanted to edit it

[FaeQueenCory]

FaeQueenCory My thoughts on this are they messed with the system, and made it too easy. Pre-SoA items we crafted, quested, bought from npcs, or obtained as drops. In comes SoA with it's unique system where you don't need to do actually do delve, (unless you're after delve boss pieces), to get delve gear. You can fight the nm outside of fracture for a KI that allows you to buy the equipment from an npc with plasm that you can get from shards, which you can either farm on your own, or buy off the AH. Which makes delve meaningless to a lot of people.

Skirmish, Skirmish to me is the great give away, you only have to do it a few times to get the best armor in the game, (well situationally anway, I use empy +2, Seriyus Kote, relic hat, and thurandaut trousers as my tp pieces, and swap a couple pieces out for Iuitl for ws), which is a relief because it is so mind numbingly boring.

Reives. The only reason to do reives is so you can get the bayld to do the only fun thing they added with SoA, and that's Wildskeeper Reives. Some people us them for farming, (I make more gil in 3 hours farming to make silent oils, and then crafting them, then I made in a day in a half doing Marjami Ravine colonization and lair reives), some do them for capes, to me theyre just a waste of time

Edited because i wanted to edit it
I don't think it's too easy...
Not unless you've already done it.
Which brings us back to longevity.

(I also disagree with you about the fun of skirmish. I find WKRs boring as all get out, but I find that Skirmish is really fun! But that actually shows good design... two people having differing opinions on which content is fun and which isn't.)

I also think that what makes Delve more meaningless... is that once you have what you want, why bother.
There are two ways to get what you want... and I for one think that it was wonderfully designed this way.
Tojil doesn't drop 16x helms.
This allows people to waste less time having bad luck on lots for items that they want.

And this is kind of endemic to all Adoulin content.

Even Rieves have no purpose for you once you get the stuff you want.
And that's not hard for the WKRs... I'm betting that most people don't need/want all the drops... so chances are they are gonna have everything just from the 1x fight, and the redemption NPC.
I know I sure did.
And I don't think it's unfair to say that a great many others will too.

I can't say what it's like on Bahamut... but on Odin, there are no WKRs.
Maybe once in a blue moon there will be a shout for them.... but there really is no one doing that content repeatedly on Odin.
(Or if they are, they are in a dedicated LS/solo/lowmaning it.)
People on Odin use 111 skirmish burns to bayld farm if they want bayld.

With this next update... there will be more desire for the new WKR... maybe even the old ones too if there's more library redemptions... like there seem to be.
And on Odin, there will be more demand of skirmish for bayld due to the addition of 106~113 bayld armor....

But even though we can say that Skirmish and WKRs are well designed in terms of enjoyment. (this IS still a game last I checked)
They are pisspoor in terms of longevity.

And that seriously needs to be addressed.
Because with Adoulin as the endgame... the game is doomed.
Revamping the REMs to 119 will bring back a lot of longevity... but will it be enough to counteract the shortness of Adoulin content?