New 1 hours

[Tile]

So what ever happened with those new 1 Hours?

[Fynlar]

As I said in another similar recent thread here, they are chillin with Cait Sith and Atomos

[FaeQueenCory]

As I said in another similar recent thread here, they are chillin with Cait Sith and Atomos
Poo. I was gonna say that...

lol

Yeah, don't expect anything from them until this whole Adoulin storm settles and RUN and GEO have their AF, Relic, EMpy sets... Everyone else's AF, Relic, Empy sets are boosted to RUN and GEO's level... REMs get their validation back.... The final two Nakuaals are added to their WKRs... the 4 other Delve fractures are added.... AND the Adoulin Mission storyline is completed.

After all that.... (and the bug fixing that comes with it all... we're still working the kinks out of iLvs afterall) THEN we'll have those merit 2hrs, Cait Sith and Atomos.

[Darwena]

Poo. I was gonna say that...

lol

Yeah, don't expect anything from them until this whole Adoulin storm settles and RUN and GEO have their AF, Relic, EMpy sets... Everyone else's AF, Relic, Empy sets are boosted to RUN and GEO's level... REMs get their validation back.... The final two Nakuaals are added to their WKRs... the 4 other Delve fractures are added.... AND the Adoulin Mission storyline is completed.

After all that.... (and the bug fixing that comes with it all... we're still working the kinks out of iLvs afterall) THEN we'll have those merit 2hrs, Cait Sith and Atomos.

You are too positive about that. :rolleyes:

[FaeQueenCory]

You are too positive about that. :rolleyes:
Hey... I never said how LONG after all that happens.... lol

[Camate]

Hello,

The November version update is right around the corner and at last the new special abilities will be implemented. Below is message from Akihiko Matsui giving an overview of each special ability. Please note that the names and descriptions of these abilities may change before release.



Matsui here.

I'd like to inform you all about the new special abilities that will be implemented in the November version update.

In this update, we will be adding new special abilities for all 22 jobs.

Below is a list of the abilities for each job:

Warrior

Brazen Rush
Increases your double attack rate.


Monk

Inner Strength
Increases your max HP.


White mage

Asylum
Grants party members a powerful resistance against the effects of dispel and enfeebling magic.


Black mage

Subtle Sorcery
Lower enmity generated from spells and increase spell accuracy.


Red mage

Stymie
Greatly increase the accuracy of your next enfeebling magic spell.


Thief

Larceny
Steals one beneficial effect from an enemy.


Paladin

Intervene
Greatly lowers an enemy's attack power and accuracy with a strong shield bash.


Dark knight

Soul Enslavement
Grants a TP drain effect to melee attacks.


Beastmaster

Unleash
Increase Charm rate and reduces the recast time for Sic and Ready.


Bard

Clarion Call
Increases the number of songs that can be cast on party members by one.


Ranger

Overkill
Reduces the delay for ranged attacks and increase the rate for double shot and triple shot.


Samurai

Yaegasumi
Evades abilities. Additionally, TP is gained depending on the number of abilities evaded, and grants a bonus to weapon skill damage.


Ninja

Mikage
Grants a bonus to main weapon attack rounds based on the number of shadows.


Dragoon

Fly High
Reduces the recast time for Jump.


Summoner

Astral Conduit
Reduces the recast time for Blood Pacts.


Blue mage

Unbridled Wisdom
Special blue magic spells will become useable.


Corsair

Cut Card
Reduces the recast time for party members' special abilities.


Puppetmaster

Heady Artifice
Automatons use special abilities. The special ability used will differ depending on the head equipped.


Dancer

Grand Pas
Allows you to use Flourishes without consuming finishing moves.


Scholar

Caper Emissarius
Focuses enmity on a targeted party member.


Geomancer

Widened Compass
Expands the range of geomancy spell effects.


Rune fencer

Odyllic Subterfuge
Significantly reduces an enemy's magical accuracy.


Thank you so much for all the feedback on the new abilities up until now. I'd like to comment separately on some abilities that had a lot of feedback.



Red mage

Stymie
Greatly increase the accuracy of your next enfeebling magic spell.


We've received feedback that the effect is too small for this to be a special ability, but the development team feels that it has a lot of potential, and will be implementing it with the current specifications.

Regardless if they are boss-grade monster or not, the monsters introduced after Adoulin have been created to not have complete resistances as much as possible except those that have cumulative resistance to petrify and terror. Depending on the monster, they may have high resistances and despite using Elemental Seal spells may be resisted at a high rate; however, by using Stymie it will be possible to enfeeble these kinds of monsters, this can lend itself to opening up different strategies depending on how it is used.

However, we feel it's problematic that "Slow" is ineffective against monsters such as Matamata and Harpeia whose regular attacks are treated as special abilities, so we will be making adjustments to the system and make it so that "Slow" becomes effective.



Ninja

Mikage
Grants a bonus to main weapon attack rounds based on the number of shadows.


After looking into everyone's concern about the TP fed to enemies with an increase in attack rounds, we've added a strong subtle blow effect in order to reduce the amount of TP given to enemies. While under the effects of Mikage, the subtle blow cap will be increased significantly, so you will be able to largely reduce the amount of TP given to enemies by the combination of equipment and job traits.




Puppetmaster

Heady Artifice
Automatons use special abilities. The special ability used will differ depending on the head equipped.


We've made adjustments to increase the amount of enmity generated by the Valoredge's Invincible making it easier to keep an enemy on them. Moving forward we will be keeping an eye on the situation for each head's special ability effect and making adjustments accordingly.

While we looked into the requests we received to give puppetmasters their own special effect instead of other jobs' special abilities, as Camate commented here ( http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26191-New-2-hour-Abilities?p=403517#post403517) previously, we wanted to deviate from the shared effect of "Overdrive" and after considering both originality and practicality, we decided to adopt the current ability.

Also, while this is slightly off-topic from new special abilities, in the December version update we will be making adjustments to "Overdrive" and making it so you receive three maneuvers worth of an effect from a single maneuver. We'll still be keeping the maximum amount of maneuvers for a single element at three, so it won't be possible to go above this, but we will be making it so you can simultaneously increase the number of maneuvers for three elements to the maximum.

I mentioned that we were looking to perform the adjustments to "Overdrive" at the same time we added the new special abilities, but due to scheduling, it unfortunately will be one month later than the special abilities. I apologize to all of you who were anxiously awaiting the adjustment, but please give us just a bit more time.

I understand that there is feedback for further adjustments, but as all of the stats and direction for each ability has already been decided, we will be implementing these in the November version update. Moving forward, we'd like a greater range of feedback, including players who haven't participated in Test Server testing, and we will be making balance adjustments as needed, so please try using these new special abilities in a variety of situations.

[Jerbob]

... Stymie ...
I hope you are prepared for how catastrophically unhappy this is going to make a lot of people. Not only red mages are going to be angered by this, but the rest of the XI community will be disgusted at how developers have ignored us YET AGAIN.

Demon's post above will represent the feelings of a lot of people. This is not acceptable.

(edit) Or, rather, would have represented, were it still there...

[Zephrose]

Being so dramatic isn't going to make them listen any harder. Kind of like crying as hard as you can to your parents and all they are doing is laughing how funny your face is when it's bright red. Get over it, it's not the first time they've added something completely useless.

[Jerbob]

It's not the first time they've added something completely useless.
It certainly isn't, no, but we shouldn't just accept awful things because they constantly ignore us. This is a prime example of the community making significant objections to something and then SE just going ahead with it anyway with a "we know best" attitude. People have a right to be annoyed by it.

[Babekeke]

At least they gave a reason for RDM, regardless of how bad that reason was. Being able to dispel Kurma's def boost once per run is terribad. But at least they think it is acceptable and they're sticking to it.

THF however, they blatantly ignored, despite the fact that it was sold during the VW/Legion days by telling us how we can steal a mob's SP abilities.

Adoulin was then released where not a single mob can use a SP ability. If this doesn't steal auras, it's even worse than RDMs.

My reasoning: RDM can sub whm or sch and use new SP abil in lieu of ES. THF can just use aura steal anyway.

[Zephrose]

At least they gave a reason for RDM, regardless of how bad that reason was. Being able to dispel Kurma's def boost once per run is terribad. But at least they think it is acceptable and they're sticking to it.

THF however, they blatantly ignored, despite the fact that it was sold during the VW/Legion days by telling us how we can steal a mob's SP abilities.

Adoulin was then released where not a single mob can use a SP ability. If this doesn't steal auras, it's even worse than RDMs.

My reasoning: RDM can sub whm or sch and use new SP abil in lieu of ES. THF can just use aura steal anyway.

That's using your noodle! :D

[Jerbob]

That's not really the point though. The community made their feelings about the RDM SP quite abundantly clear, and it is objectively terrible as an SP, but SE went ahead with it regardless with no more justification than "we think it's kinda rad so let's go with it". I think that is reason enough to be disgusted, relative value of the ability itself notwithstanding. Maybe there are others that are worse, as Babekeke has pointed out, and that's definitely something else to be angry about - but a slightly less runny turd is still a turd.

[Demon6324236]

Ok, let me explain why this is pointless then. I will first go 1 by 1 through all Enfeebling Magic.

Addle - Useful, but not all to powerful against anything meaningful, hardly anything resists, not useful enough for a 1 hour recast timer.
Bind - Breaks after 1 hit.
Blind - Everything has to much Accuracy for this to ever make a difference, and any mob with a gimmick like Tute where this helps, its super easy to land.
Break - Breaks after 1 hit.
Dia - Cant be resisted anyways.
Dispel - Hardly anything resists.
Gravity - Hardly useful when we never run from enemies anymore, and the -EVA is hardly useful when we have so much Accuracy+ and EVA-.
Paralyze - Doesn't work on anything truly deadly.
Poison - The damage this does is pathetic, and its hardly resisted.
Sleep - Breaks after 1 hit.
Silence - Spells can be stunned easily, and most things that can be silenced, are easy to silence, the only hard thing to Silence right now is Tute and Muyingwa.
Slow - Doesn't work on any of the TP spamming mobs, even if it did, this doesn't effect WSs, which like Paralyze, is the main downfall.



That's mostly a complaint of why Enfeebling sucks for the most part, but really, none of it is hard to land, that's the issue, not only is it hardly useful, its easy to land!

[Demon6324236]

That's using your noodle! :DExcept for any important enfeeble we already do not need Elemental Seal.

[Kincard]

It took them a year to make 2 minor adjustments to 2/20 skills, and make 2 new skills to the 2 new jobs (Because I'm sure Adoulin was so rushed that they were not considered in the development cycle even a few months before the announcement of its release), and give the exact same explanation to why one of them is total garbage?

Is it really that hard to code XI, or were they just sitting on these/forgot about them until they needed it to make an update look bigger?

I just love how they were acting like they were holding off on releasing them because they needed to put oh-so-much work on them and this is the result after a year. Must be nice having tenure at SE.

[Demon6324236]

Part 2, breaking this down.
We've received feedback that the effect is too small for this to be a special ability, but the development team feels that it has a lot of potential, and will be implementing it with the current specifications.

Regardless if they are boss-grade monster or not, the monsters introduced after Adoulin have been created to not have complete resistances as much as possible except those that have cumulative resistance to petrify and terror. Depending on the monster, they may have high resistances and despite using Elemental Seal spells may be resisted at a high rate; however, by using Stymie it will be possible to enfeeble these kinds of monsters, this can lend itself to opening up different strategies depending on how it is used.

However, we feel it's problematic that "Slow" is ineffective against monsters such as Matamata and Harpeia whose regular attacks are treated as special abilities, so we will be making adjustments to the system and make it so that "Slow" becomes effective.

Issue 1~!

We've received feedback that the effect is too small for this to be a special ability, but the development team feels that it has a lot of potential, and will be implementing it with the current specifications.Ignoring what we said. Tons of feedback saying the ability is bad and needs changed, but rather than listen to us, the players, the dev teams thinks its better to just give us something we don't need. The original ability had a load more potential than this ever could, yet they threw it out at the first sign of trouble. That is what pisses me off more than anything. They had a good ability laid out, enhancing our Enhancing Magic spells for a time, had they upped the duration to 3 minutes like Tabula Rasa is, then made the enhancement +50% potency, the ability would have been fantastic, yet not overpowered, it would have been a Soul Voice for RDM but less potent and most spells are only self targeting anyways. Rather than doing this, they got rid of it, yet they are so hell bent on holding on to this failure of an ability.

Issue 2~!

Regardless if they are boss-grade monster or not, the monsters introduced after Adoulin have been created to not have complete resistances as much as possible except those that have cumulative resistance to petrify and terror. Depending on the monster, they may have high resistances and despite using Elemental Seal spells may be resisted at a high rate; however, by using Stymie it will be possible to enfeeble these kinds of monsters, this can lend itself to opening up different strategies depending on how it is used.The issue is that no 1 enfeebling spell is so effective, so crippling, that by using this it changes the battle in any real way. I can silence a NM, Silence, the most powerful enfeeble we have, the ability to remove an entire category of attacks from an enemy, yet I hardly have a time when this is hard to land as it is, and even if I had a hard time with it, we can stun them anyways. No other enfeebling is as powerful as Silence or has had as many monsters immune to it, and even it isn't truly worth this. Nothing is worth this kind of recast to ensure a land. Nothing is powerful enough so far as enfeebles go that we should need this. I can understand the idea behind 'Muyingwa is near impossible to land Gravity on, and using this with Gravity would allow an additional Evasion reduction, helpful to the battle' but its not really a widespread applicable ability, its not useful even in that case anymore. If we got new enfeebles like Amnesia, maybe this would be good, but otherwise... no...

Issue 3~!

However, we feel it's problematic that "Slow" is ineffective against monsters such as Matamata and Harpeia whose regular attacks are treated as special abilities, so we will be making adjustments to the system and make it so that "Slow" becomes effective.They haven't even finished making Enfeebling useful against all targets because they made mobs with gimmicks to make them harder, which they never fully incorporated in the game properly.

[Demon6324236]

The last reason, the entire thread last time this was brought up was filled with complaints about this ability, THF's ability, and BST's ability. Yet through all of the complaints they failed to learn this ability was a bad idea and that the other had potential, instead, they ignored it and want to continue onward with this.

I explained that RDM has many issues, it has had many over the last few years, and its only getting worse as time goes on, this is another failure for RDM, and if its put in, it just shows that yet again they fail to show the job the care it needs, and give it the updates it needs to become worthwhile again.

[Edyth]

I have two non-whiney questions about the implementation of these abilities:

1. Can a player have both of his special abilities active at once if it's a self-buff, such as Mighty Strikes + Brazen Rush, Inner Strength + Hundred Fists, or Inner Focus + Manafont? I understand that some of the combinations could be overpowered, but some of them, like the black mage example, wouldn't be overpowered and would substantially increase the usefulness of the new SP abilities.

2. Will monipulators have access to the new special abilities?


And now for my thoughts on Stymie: it seems like the developers have a secret regarding this SP ability that players just aren't seeing. Granted, Silence seems like the only use, but those of you dismissing every spell as stunnable need to step outside of Valkurm Dunes once in a while, because any monster that's any monster has quick magic nowadays anyway. In addition, it's naive to dismiss spells as "all stunnable" on monsters whose TP moves are deadly beyond all reason. Often, stunning a spell means that the NM is going to wipe a bunch of people with the TP move he uses LITERALLY right after stun wears off.

[SNK]

eh I'm done with RDM even tho it was my 1st 75. You just need to realize SE isn't going to fix it the way you want no matter how much you puff your chests about it.

[Calatilla]

So THF now has 2 useless SP`s, sweet.

[Phafi]

So THF now has 2 useless SP`s, sweet.

wasn't this one able to steal an enemy's 2hour? or did that idea get chucked

[Calatilla]

wasn't this one able to steal an enemy's 2hour? or did that idea get chucked

Current endgame bosses don't use 2hrs, so unless it can steal Aura's it's useless.

[Zhronne]

I'm so gonna miss the old BRD additional 1hr compared to this one :'(

[Annalise]

I have two non-whiney questions about the implementation of these abilities:

1. Can a player have both of his special abilities active at once if it's a self-buff, such as Mighty Strikes + Brazen Rush, Inner Strength + Hundred Fists, or Inner Focus + Manafont? I understand that some of the combinations could be overpowered, but some of them, like the black mage example, wouldn't be overpowered and would substantially increase the usefulness of the new SP abilities.


I am guessing based on my use of the RDM Bee Monipulator that you will be unable to use both at once. Frenzy Pollen gives the SP icon and hundred fists, which makes Mighty Strikes have no effect while active. The reverse is also true.

If the new abilities count as special abilities just like the original 1 hours, they will be unable to stack. If they change how special abilities work, then they may be able to stack. I'm guessing that will be unlikely, but we shall see.

[MarkovChain]

The new RDM SP2 sucks, everyone has been telling them so for over 1 year. I bet you can't even land a single stun with it because it's not enfeebling. For 99.99% of the content the RDM SP2 is an elemental seal that sucks because you will use it 6x less than ES for one, and it only works for enfeebling.

I'd like to point out that nobody, including the magic accuracy specialists like myself, understood the difference between this and ES. The dev team is unable to provide an exemple where ES can't be used and this on will be used.


Last I checked, ES is assumed to max your hit rate. The upper cap of the hitrate is modified based on mobs (resist traits), and last year the devs seemed to imply in an answer that this was the whole point of the ability. Then they mentionned partial resists. Partial resists are entirely determined by magic acc, so the SP2 will not help more than ES. They seemed to imply that the new SP2 would remove partial resists ... woot.

[Fynlar]

No matter how much you guys wanna close your ears and pretend RDM's ability isn't terrible, it still is. It's arguably MORE terrible now than it was back when it was first announced.

Not only does Elemental Seal suffice for the very few times you actually need it for anything anymore, our macc has increased so significantly that a properly geared/skilled mage should have virtually no problems landing things even without either of these abilities.

The original proposed SP2 had far better "potential" than this one ever would.

[Prothscar]

magic accuracy specialists like myself

I had no idea that Chi Blast could be resisted!

[MarkovChain]

You probably read that from BG, definitely not from me.

[Mefuki]

We never should have complained about RDM's original SP2 then, I guess. It would have been better to have just gone with that. Even then, I don't think anyone complained about just scraping it, we just wanted tweaks. There MUST be some reason why they think Stymie is worth the recast and limitations. Maybe they're planning for the future of MAcc? Maybe they're tooling around with new enfeebles?

On the plus side, at least we got them to change a few of the other SP2. Anyone remember how hilarious the BST SP2 was?

[Ophannus]

Wasn't BST's something like you killed your pet and gained Stoneskin equal to the pet's remaining HP and a RR3 effect?

[Demon6324236]

Yeah, Chocoburger.


We never should have complained about RDM's original SP2 then, I guess. It would have been better to have just gone with that. Even then, I don't think anyone complained about just scraping it, we just wanted tweaks.Exactly, that's the primary issue I have with this entire thing. Everyone on the forums basically agreed on the fact that the original idea held a ton of promise but it was just to short and to weak, it only lasted a minute, which was hardly enough time to fully buff, and it did not buff the effects enough, which could have easily been improved without breaking the game. But rather than actually adjusting like they did with most, they flat out changed it, and afterward, we pointed out the flaws, said it was bad, we all said we wanted the other one back with the changes we asked for, but nothing. Now, a long time has passed, yet still, no change, instead, they continue to try to justify it to us.


There MUST be some reason why they think Stymie is worth the recast and limitations.I think their reason is they fail to understand just how unneeded it is, and how little we actually use Enfeebles for their full effects. I can say I Paralyze Tojil, its hard, but I do it, I resist a few times for Immunobreaks, I throw down Saboteur, put on my potency gear and +2 hands, and throw it at him, it doesn't do anything really, it stops a few attacks here and there, but I don't use it for Paralyze, I use it for when Silence wears, so he doesn't get off a quick Diaga III or Sleepga while I am casting Silence again, and incase Silence gets its rare resist in. But the thing is, Silence is really the only Enfeeble I cast on Tojil besides Dia, everything else is either pointless because it does nothing, or it helps a little, but has such a small impact it doesn't matter if I do or not. The same goes for most fights in Adoulin. Paralyze has a minor effect in the overall battle, its mostly just a safeguard for me if anything, slow is pointless like poison, bind, sleep, break, and all of those other enfeebles, only really Paralyze, Silence, and Dia are of any use to me generally. So to me, I think its more that they just overestimate its use, and the overall use of Enfeebling Magic as a whole.


Maybe they're planning for the future of MAcc? Maybe they're tooling around with new enfeebles?Both of these to me are a bad idea for so many reasons. Firstly, I hope RDM gets more Magic Accuracy than this, possibly a better staff, or some way to match the staff in Magic Accuracy, in which case it is harder to account for the future, unless they plan to make NMs so resistant that it requires this to land our spells. Secondly, its because it assumes that new spells would have such a use that it be worth this kind of timer in the first place, because unless they are spell which are so overpowered that they should be near impossible to land otherwise, such as Amnesia, I can not see them ever being worth an hour wait time.

[Byrth]

Okay, so the first batch of SP abilities was a mixed bag. Some of them suck (Mijin Gakure, Perfect Dodge, Azure Lore, etc.) and some of them are awesome (like Mighty Strikes). A few of them have even been adjusted (Tabula Rasa, Eagle Eye Shot, etc.) However, I'm not really expecting this second batch of SP abilities to be any better on average despite the fact that we've given feedback directly related to them. They did try to incorporate some suggestions, which got a major rework of the original abilities (some for the better and some for the worse) and that got us a new mixed bag. Some of the new ones are terrible (like RDM's, even the old 1.5x enhancing potency one was better) and some are good (Brazen Rush is just another thing for WARs to stack during a zerg). I'll be looking forward to using Grand Pas on DNC once every hour, as it's infinitely better than my original SP ability, Trance.


The real question I have is: Why did it take so many months to walk them from the test server to the real server? You're implementing essentially the same SP2s that were on the test server months and months ago. Why the heck did it take so long if you weren't cooking up a third mixed bag?

Don't get me wrong. I don't think that making a third set of SP2s would be any more successful than your first two attempts. This isn't because I think it is impossible to design good SP2s, but after ~60 tries you've got about a 50% success rate and seem somewhat unable to identify which SPs need to be changed. I just feel that the sane position with the available evidence is acceptance rather than demanding the unlikely, which is probably the conclusion that you reached as well (hence the release), so why did it take so long?

[Mefuki]

Actually it wasn't even Stoneskin.


Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.

[dasva]

At least they gave a reason for RDM, regardless of how bad that reason was. Being able to dispel Kurma's def boost once per run is terribad. But at least they think it is acceptable and they're sticking to it.
I'd disagree since the reason is either a flat out lie made up to make us feel better or made by people who have absolutely no understanding on how the game works thinking they do know better than the people actually playing it.

As far as Kurma I was landing dispel without ES at about 50% rate before the ilvl update if I had a geo. And since it only takes 45 macc to go from 50% to capped at 95% the ilvl update has made it so I have capped hit rate without a geo. On top of that they are saying it's for with ES which gives so much macc that people haven't been really able to test it. Basically their reasoning comes down to some kind of mythical mob that is so strong it has about twice the meva as any mob in the game but is weak enough where landing 1 enfeeble once will be a game changer when nothing else will land on it including stuns. Combine with the fact that current enfeebles rdm has are too weak and have been gimped so that they aren't worthwhile enough against mobs to justify bringing a rdm 99.9% of the time. I mean none of the enhance enfeeble nor saboteur works with dia which might actually be good if it did. Saboteur is gimped against nms despite the fact that a fully geared and merited saboteur slow II from a rdm is still less slow than a naked lvl 59 brd

And the biggest slap in the face is the blm sp2 does the same thing... except it does it for all types of magic AND for a duration instead of 1 spell AND lower enmity. And if you scroll back a bit to when they were talking about them previously like a year or so back you will see it's supposed to be comparable to elemental seal except for 60 seconds I think?

Though I must say the fact that they actually took into concern something as minor problem as tp feed of ninjas sp2 while at the same time completely ignoring the major flaws of rdm is also a solid slap. It's like closing your window from the rain but ignoring the hurricane at your door

[dasva]

I'm so gonna miss the old BRD additional 1hr compared to this one :'(

old one was rather awesome if somewhat odd for brd

[dasva]

Yeah, Chocoburger.

Exactly, that's the primary issue I have with this entire thing. Everyone on the forums basically agreed on the fact that the original idea held a ton of promise but it was just to short and to weak, it only lasted a minute, which was hardly enough time to fully buff, and it did not buff the effects enough, which could have easily been improved without breaking the game. But rather than actually adjusting like they did with most, they flat out changed it, and afterward, we pointed out the flaws, said it was bad, we all said we wanted the other one back with the changes we asked for, but nothing. Now, a long time has passed, yet still, no change, instead, they continue to try to justify it to us.
Also part of the problem was the original text made it to be alot better than it was. Since it said it increased duration and effect. But when it hit the test server it only had effect and they were like oh yeah that's how it's supposed to be. So we were all like ok so we can 2hr to throw a haste that and regen on our friends that has like 1/2 the potency and 1/3 the duration of embrava? We can do protects/shells that are slightly better than whms. Enspells that are still inferior to ifrits for 3 minutes etc. If they had kept the duration increase say maybe triple the duration then the weak potency increase might have been worthwhile. But a 1hr enhancing the potency of buffs that last 3 minutes at most needs to at least double them to be even remotely comparable to say idk stealing 50 tp per hit from a mob <.<. But as much tweaking as it needed it was 1000X better than the change. The only way this could even be remotely useful is if they litterally double the potency of rdm debuffs. Which really given how little they effect battle to begin with should be done anyways.

[Demon6324236]

Well hell, even if it doubled the potency of the enfeeble, then its just Elemental Seal fused with Saboteur.

Like I said before. Even if it was 1.5x multiplier on potency, 3 minute duration, and that was it, it would have been at least decent. Double potency with 3min duration would have been really nice. I can understand why duration was not included, and that's because of Composure and our gear which enhances duration. I mean, if you think about it, say for instance I use that then Haste myself, I just got a 30% Haste Effect which lasts about 25 minutes, admittedly, that is a bit overpowered. On the other hand, without the duration bonus. This could have been great for buffing parties as well as giving RDM melee a great boost. 40% Double Attack, 30% Haste, 50STR, so on, but the thing is that all but Haste is basically self cast, about the only other things which could possibly be overpowered would be Protect, Shell, and Phalanx. Phalanx would become 70 Damage Reduction, not overpowered, but quite powerful all the same, fair in my book, however Protect for 350 DEF could be a bit overboard, and Shell with near capped MDT alone, yeah, bit OP. The thing is, they can limit this kind of stuff, the effects with certain things, I mean Composure doesn't work with Protect/Shell, why would this have to? They could balance it easy.

[Minikom]

perosnally i dont see use for some SP abilities but im just thinking on our current content and not about future.
Beastmaster
Unleash
Increase Charm rate and reduces the recast time for Sic and Ready.
Charm WTF who still use that and recast for sick and ready, no real use when pets get tp so slow...this is definetly the worst SP, i know a lot of ppl think rdm is but rdm SP could be useful if is possible to break the inmuno no break on all Mobs, example, let RDM sleep ADL CLONES lol?

Monk
Inner Strength
Increases your max HP.
what happened to the counter ability, i remember they used to talk acount countering everything for MNK ability

Corsair
Cut Card
Reduces the recast time for party members' special abilities.
I just dont undertand this SP... we have wild card already, 3rd roll idea was something nice, let all rolls to be 11s or lucky numbers is another great idea but intead of that they giving us this, just dont undertand :/

Geomancer
Widened Compass
Expands the range of geomancy spell effects.
well with this ja, i wonder what is going to be the new range for indi spell and geo spells, if range is huge, geomace wont need to be too close of Monsters and can avoid take dmg, also all depend on if mobs have 20 range tp moves with death effect lol

[Babekeke]

You probably read that from BG, definitely not from me.

Whooooooooshh!

[MarkovChain]

Monk
Inner Strength
Increases your max HP.
what happened to the counter ability, i remember they used to talk acount countering everything for MNK ability

Corsair
Cut Card
Reduces the recast time for party members' special abilities.
I just dont undertand this SP... we have wild card already, 3rd roll idea was something nice, let all rolls to be 11s or lucky numbers is another great idea but intead of that they giving us this, just dont undertand :/

Geomancer


COR one actually doesn't suck, but not with the idea of using the 2H on a single fight of course. For instance ppl use 2H a lot in delve, well just have a COR SP2 and you don't have to wait 15 minutes for it to be ready on time. I know that when I do ADL, I'm also often waiting on recast so it's rather good.

For MNK, the SP2 is a chakra that doesn't suck basically with additionnal effect of being invicible for a few seconds. Thy did say it auto caps HP.

[Demon6324236]

MNK SP2 is Mantra, what are you looking at? And so far as it giving you full HP, are you sure? That's what they said in the old thread, not this one, they said many things in the old thread which are seemingly absent here. If I remember right, a few abilities were changed from then to now, such as BST, which if I remember right used to be unlimited pet TP, unlimited use of Ready/Sic moves, and unlimited charm/call beast, for the duration of the effect.

[saevel]

Red mage
Stymie
Greatly increase the accuracy of your next enfeebling magic spell.

We've received feedback that the effect is too small for this to be a special ability, but the development team feels that it has a lot of potential, and will be implementing it with the current specifications.

Regardless if they are boss-grade monster or not, the monsters introduced after Adoulin have been created to not have complete resistances as much as possible except those that have cumulative resistance to petrify and terror. Depending on the monster, they may have high resistances and despite using Elemental Seal spells may be resisted at a high rate; however, by using Stymie it will be possible to enfeeble these kinds of monsters, this can lend itself to opening up different strategies depending on how it is used.

However, we feel it's problematic that "Slow" is ineffective against monsters such as Matamata and Harpeia whose regular attacks are treated as special abilities, so we will be making adjustments to the system and make it so that "Slow" becomes effective.

DO NOT WANT.

Seriously SE the effect is horrible. You already created an ability better then this in every way possible that has been available since game launch.

Level 15 Black Mage
Elemental Seal
Duration: Next spell cast of any
Recast: 10:00 Minutes

Seriously what the f*ck will we do with an ability that only effects Enfeebling Magic and has a 60:00 recast. The only enfeeble worth using it for would be Impact but that's Elemental Magic and wouldn't work with this. This ability is a 5 ~ 10 min JA at best not a 60 min one.

Really GET RID OF IT.

[saevel]

At least they gave a reason for RDM, regardless of how bad that reason was. Being able to dispel Kurma's def boost once per run is terribad. But at least they think it is acceptable and they're sticking to it.

THF however, they blatantly ignored, despite the fact that it was sold during the VW/Legion days by telling us how we can steal a mob's SP abilities.

Adoulin was then released where not a single mob can use a SP ability. If this doesn't steal auras, it's even worse than RDMs.

My reasoning: RDM can sub whm or sch and use new SP abil in lieu of ES. THF can just use aura steal anyway.

Actually no. RDM is forced to be /BLM because they use CSS during the run. In any case there is only one spell worth guaranteeing a near 100% full duration land rate and that's Impact which is Elemental Magic and doesn't work with the RDM SP. Slow / Para / Silence / Grav II / Blind and Addle can all be recast as much as you want with no penalty. They are all cheap and outside of Grav II have a low recast timer. Dia III always lands for the full 15% effect and isn't' helped by ES at all. Break is a joke as the player version of petrify wears the moment the target takes damage, even DoT effects. And that's without even getting into the whole magic accuracy debate.

Seriously what spell would you use it with? There is absolutely nothing it changes or enhances for the job, it's a wasted JA slot.

[MarkovChain]

MNK SP2 is Mantra, what are you looking at? And so far as it giving you full HP, are you sure?

Mantra doesn't cap HP so no. This SP2 is an oshit macro. Also I remember them saying it would cap HP, let's just hope it's not just HP up.

[Demon6324236]

Like I said though, they changed some things, and the capped HP isn't mentioned in this thread. If they have more effects and that's one of them then yeah, its basically a max HP Chakra and a more powerful Mantra in 1. I am just disappointed with many of these to the point I don't doubt they would take that out, same with SMNs getting full MP, and so on.

[FaeQueenCory]

Stymie.... wouldn't be so awful if it was a stance type deal... instead of a 1hr delay ES...
Like if it lasted for a couple min and during that time you have what seems like the Macc bonus of a brew... instead of just a single spell.
Hope no one ever misclicks.

And are these still stackable? Or is it 1SP/person... cause... astral flow + astral conduit = fun times...
And BRD? Holy jesus... just think of all those songs for Delve Mega Bosses!
Not really a fan of BLU's... especially cause it makes "and we totes promise the new blu spells will NOT be unbridled learning only".... kinda a lie if they are unbridled wisdom only...

But DNC, DRG, SMN, and BRDs are gonna be soooooo gooooood...

EDIT: and are these still merit based? will they just poof up? will they be a 1/1 merit? will they have stages?
Maybe if they have stages stymie will be able to cast up to 5 or w/e x/x merits make it...

EDIT2: Just had a terrifying idea...

Ok, let me explain why this is pointless then. I will first go 1 by 1 through all Enfeebling Magic.

Addle - Useful, but not all to powerful against anything meaningful, hardly anything resists, not useful enough for a 1 hour recast timer.
Bind - Breaks after 1 hit.
Blind - Everything has to much Accuracy for this to ever make a difference, and any mob with a gimmick like Tute where this helps, its super easy to land.
Break - Breaks after 1 hit.
Dia - Cant be resisted anyways.
Dispel - Hardly anything resists.
Gravity - Hardly useful when we never run from enemies anymore, and the -EVA is hardly useful when we have so much Accuracy+ and EVA-.
Paralyze - Doesn't work on anything truly deadly.
Poison - The damage this does is pathetic, and its hardly resisted.
Sleep - Breaks after 1 hit.
Silence - Spells can be stunned easily, and most things that can be silenced, are easy to silence, the only hard thing to Silence right now is Tute and Muyingwa.
Slow - Doesn't work on any of the TP spamming mobs, even if it did, this doesn't effect WSs, which like Paralyze, is the main downfall.



That's mostly a complaint of why Enfeebling sucks for the most part, but really, none of it is hard to land, that's the issue, not only is it hardly useful, its easy to land!
That ice-lion..... >_>
What if....
What if they made it so that the bleh enfeebles.....
Were needed/useful against it!?
Or something like that...
I dunno.... sytmie is bad.... it sound redic like +9000Macclol...
And the way they present it with justification....
Maybe it's just because I'm a SMN....
I'm having Alexander flashbacks....
>_>
Requiring a job.... just for the 2hr... because w/o it.... >_>
I don't like this thought.

[MarkovChain]

If they gave RDM a 30 or 45 sec duration for their SP2 it would not be bad.

[Rwolf]

I'm just going to sincerely hope that the list just shows the in-game help text which doesn't always explain the full extent of abilities, spells, etc. Regarding specifically with MNK's Inner Strength and BST's Unleash.

Larceny is a really lame 1hr for THF now. There's nothing to use it on in new content. Sure it'll still Aura Steal one thing but for a 1 hour? At the very least it should just grab all current buffs on a target. A full dispel as a 1 hour isn't that overpowered to me, especially since most of these new NMs gain multiple buffs from 1 ability. Also, half of them do nothing for a THF which isn't magical or rarely ever tanking anything. At least it would see some use at that point.

Stymie, I think everyone's said a good deal on how bad it is and I completely agree how useless it is in this day and age of magic accuracy boosts. I wasn't even shocked at mentioning petrify like it's actually a valid tactic. (sleep works better any way) I give up on their rationality with RDM, I can't make an argument with a brick wall.

Cut Card, I hope they increased the -recast time on it so a 6 potentially resets all JA again because it was lame. I see what they were trying to do but under perfect conditions when they last described it. It lowers at maximum 50% recast on a 6. Most events aren't more than 45 mins. So unless it's a 1hr you were willing to toss any way, it doesn't really do much. Not in the age of revitalizers, resetting through reives, etc. It would have been better to just give COR an ability that makes all rolls XI and adds the job bonus without the job around 100%.

Regarding new jobs, Widened Compass sounds good. I just hope the length is far enough.

Odyllic Subterfuge, meh. I guess it's ok for preventing enfeebles or additional effects if magic accuracy affects it. Can they at least make it mirror PLD's Intervene so it lowers magic attack AND magic accuracy?

[Babekeke]

Actually no. RDM is forced to be /BLM because they use CSS during the run. In any case there is only one spell worth guaranteeing a near 100% full duration land rate and that's Impact which is Elemental Magic and doesn't work with the RDM SP. Slow / Para / Silence / Grav II / Blind and Addle can all be recast as much as you want with no penalty. They are all cheap and outside of Grav II have a low recast timer. Dia III always lands for the full 15% effect and isn't' helped by ES at all. Break is a joke as the player version of petrify wears the moment the target takes damage, even DoT effects. And that's without even getting into the whole magic accuracy debate.

Seriously what spell would you use it with? There is absolutely nothing it changes or enhances for the job, it's a wasted JA slot.

I've never seen RDMs doing CSS in delve in the runs I've been on. Generally stuns are all done by SCH/BLM. RDMs have often been /SCH for the extra dark magic skill and stratagems for casting Impact. While you're right that this wouldn't affect impact, it would (I assume) be stackable with Saboteur to prevent that "OFFS" moment when the spell you land 90% of the time decided to get resisted when you used Saboteur, as is sod's law.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way saying that it's good. If anything I'm saying that it has 1% usefulness 1% of the time in curent end-game adoulin content. And when comparing that to the THF SP2, it's 100% more useful than THF's is, if auras can't be stolen.


Mantra doesn't cap HP so no. This SP2 is an oshit macro. Also I remember them saying it would cap HP, let's just hope it's not just HP up.

As I recall, it didn't actually cap your HP, just add the amount of HP that it restored. So if you're down to 100/2000 HP and hit SP2, SP2 increases your HP cap by 2k, and gives you 2K HP. Your HP is now 2100/4000 for example.

[detlef]

CS stun is one way to deal with scorpion under 50%. It can probably be used on peiste or orobon but SCH stuns are just as good for those.

[dasva]

Well hell, even if it doubled the potency of the enfeeble, then its just Elemental Seal fused with Saboteur.

Like I said before. Even if it was 1.5x multiplier on potency, 3 minute duration, and that was it, it would have been at least decent. Double potency with 3min duration would have been really nice. I can understand why duration was not included, and that's because of Composure and our gear which enhances duration. I mean, if you think about it, say for instance I use that then Haste myself, I just got a 30% Haste Effect which lasts about 25 minutes, admittedly, that is a bit overpowered. On the other hand, without the duration bonus. This could have been great for buffing parties as well as giving RDM melee a great boost. 40% Double Attack, 30% Haste, 50STR, so on, but the thing is that all but Haste is basically self cast, about the only other things which could possibly be overpowered would be Protect, Shell, and Phalanx. Phalanx would become 70 Damage Reduction, not overpowered, but quite powerful all the same, fair in my book, however Protect for 350 DEF could be a bit overboard, and Shell with near capped MDT alone, yeah, bit OP. The thing is, they can limit this kind of stuff, the effects with certain things, I mean Composure doesn't work with Protect/Shell, why would this have to? They could balance it easy.
Oh no I meant rdm debuffs need a serious reworking period. Not with some ja but have their strength increased alot. I mean it's about time we rectified the fact that a lvl 59 naked brd can outslow a fully merited and geared 99 rdm.

And it's also about time we made it so saboteur worked on all enfeebles and that it wasn't gimped against nms.

Anyways still thinking at least some duration increase would've been fine at least when the original one was being discussed. I mean the haste for example at the time could only go to just under 6 minutes for others while this was back when embrava was much much more haste and other goodies at 12.5 minutes. I mean I was hoping they would make it on par with other 2hrs not just decent. But at least decent was way better than the garbage we got now

[dasva]

I've never seen RDMs doing CSS in delve in the runs I've been on. Generally stuns are all done by SCH/BLM. RDMs have often been /SCH for the extra dark magic skill and stratagems for casting Impact. While you're right that this wouldn't affect impact, it would (I assume) be stackable with Saboteur to prevent that "OFFS" moment when the spell you land 90% of the time decided to get resisted when you used Saboteur, as is sod's law.

dark skill doesn't help impact so there is that... the little extra elemental skill will help but we are only talking about 26 more skill unless your rdm isn't capped. Most runs I see rdms helping out with stuns not necessarily chaining them but free stunning when they aren't in the middle of buff or debuff cycles and when I did it I'd impact away and on most non boss nms I had fairly decent accuracy before the ilvl update

[dasva]

Break is a joke as the player version of petrify wears the moment the target takes damage, even DoT effects.

Break is a joke but DoT effects don't take it off only direct dmg. Making it about .01% more effective than sleep but with crappier duration

[Babekeke]

CS stun is one way to deal with scorpion under 50%. It can probably be used on peiste or orobon but SCH stuns are just as good for those.

OK, I'm still awaiting a bee run myself >.> narrowly missed out on the first shout I've seen in a month.


Break is a joke but DoT effects don't take it off only direct dmg. Making it about .01% more effective than sleep but with crappier duration

Useful for the time that someone accidentally targets the wrong target with a DoT spell.

[Zarchery]

I hope you are prepared for how catastrophically unhappy this is going to make a lot of people. Not only red mages are going to be angered by this, but the rest of the XI community will be disgusted at how developers have ignored us YET AGAIN.

Demon's post above will represent the feelings of a lot of people. This is not acceptable.

(edit) Or, rather, would have represented, were it still there...


Funny you should speak for "the rest of the XI community", because I, as a member of said community, don't care.

[Tile]

Rdm/Sch

Dark arts, Manifestation, Stymie

Breakga on any NMs or group of mobs for super long duration unless some dummy AoEs. wouldn't this be good on ADL or something

[dasva]

Rdm/Sch

Dark arts, Manifestation, Stymie

Breakga on any NMs or group of mobs for super long duration unless some dummy AoEs. wouldn't this be good on ADL or something

It might be ok on a couple of old content stuff if it actually works like that. But some things like say saboteur only work on main target when you manifestation

[Fynlar]

Not sure if this is still the case nowadays, but at some point Saboteur was determined at one point to not carry its effects on non-targeted mobs with an AoE spell like Sleepga (the targeted mob will stay asleep longer than everything else). However, if Saboteur+Manifestation+Sleep is used instead, it will still take effect on every target hit (all mobs will stay asleep for the same amount of time, barring resists).

[Tptn937]

Break is a joke but DoT effects don't take it off only direct dmg. Making it about .01% more effective than sleep but with crappier duration

Sadly this isn't true. Try using a SCH helix spell, followed by break.

[Snprphnx]

Hey Camate,

Whats with the new Ranger SP. It says it enhances both Double Shot AND Triple Shot. But Ranger does not have access to Triple Shot.

[Fynlar]

And yeah, DoT effects can still break Break.

It just doesn't seem to break with a very small amount of damage, like how Sleep does. Like, you can probably still Break something that has Diaga on it. But something more substantial like a helix will ruin it, yep. I haven't really played around with the spell enough to note the exact amount of damage required.


Whats with the new Ranger SP. It says it enhances both Double Shot AND Triple Shot. But Ranger does not have access to Triple Shot.

Most likely it just means that it's going to give RNG the temporary ability to shoot 2-3x times (like how a piece of equipment with say, "enhances 'Double Attack' effect" actually gives you the ability to hit twice without already having the trait). It likely won't be any sort of modifier to the actual job abilities with those names.

[dasva]

Not sure if this is still the case nowadays, but at some point Saboteur was determined at one point to not carry its effects on non-targeted mobs with an AoE spell like Sleepga (the targeted mob will stay asleep longer than everything else). However, if Saboteur+Manifestation+Sleep is used instead, it will still take effect on every target hit (all mobs will stay asleep for the same amount of time, barring resists).

It's been awhile but last time I did it with sleep 2 only the main target got the enhanced duration

[dasva]

And yeah, DoT effects can still break Break.

It just doesn't seem to break with a very small amount of damage, like how Sleep does. Like, you can probably still Break something that has Diaga on it. But something more substantial like a helix will ruin it, yep. I haven't really played around with the spell enough to note the exact amount of damage required.
Well all dmg breaks sleep. Just did some testing on it and you might be a certain amount. Like my 40 dmg helixes weren't breaking it but if I put bio and poison on first it would. Might be a glitch

[Hammurabi_Jones]

"Instead of one spell, please allow the ability to affect all enfeebling magic cast for a duration."

Since the ability also affects Silence and Sleep which can completely stop the enemy from performing certain actions, if we were to give the ability a duration, it would be possible to continuously neutralize an enemy for a duration. If we had to consider such tactics when creating new monsters, we no longer be able to avoid placing immunities on certain monsters, which would then serve to narrow the available tactics to players in general. Because of this, the ability only affects the first spell.

What the actual heck?! Do they even have half a clue what they are talking about? If I can use the ability to land 1 sleep that lasts 1 Minute and the duration of of the Abitlity is 30-45 seconds how are we locking out mobs more than the ability will already allow us? :confused:

That is the worst, least-thought-out excuse I have ever heard. They are trying to justify a 1 time use by using spells that have a duration greater than the ability duration we are looking for as "locking out" mobs. Does Matsui read the excuses he posts before posting them. if he does he is so far out of touch that he really needs to start looking for a new job. I hear that the McDonald's down the street is looking for a new Fry Guy.

:mad:

[Afania]

I hope you are prepared for how catastrophically unhappy this is going to make a lot of people. Not only red mages are going to be angered by this, but the rest of the XI community will be disgusted at how developers have ignored us YET AGAIN.

Demon's post above will represent the feelings of a lot of people. This is not acceptable.

(edit) Or, rather, would have represented, were it still there...

I saw a couple of OP abilities though, may be game changing even. What's with all the QQing?

[Jerbob]

I saw a couple of OP abilities though, may be game changing even. What's with all the QQing?
Oh, don't get me wrong, a few of them look great. I was really looking forward to the SMN one before all the more recent unrelated development failures, and I'm sure that some of the others will be equally appealing to other people.

I was really irritated at the time and didn't make it clear that I was specifically referring to the RDM ability, not the whole bunch. The QQing comes from the fact that most of these abilities were presented to us by SE a long time ago. Several were judged as being awful for a variety of valid reasons, but SE ignored that completely when "redeveloping" them over the last few months. It's being ignored by developers who don't fully understand their own game that is frustrating. The lacklustre abilities themselves are only the externally apparent outcome of this issue.

I will concede that some of them were improved as a result of player feedback, way back when they were first presented - but then again, some of them were made worse.

[Camate]

Hello,

As we've received quite a lot of feedback already based on the new special abilities announced the other day, Producer Akihiko Matsui has some follow-up comments that I would like to share.



Matsui here. Based on the questions we've been receiving I checked with the development team and will comment on some of them.


Beastmaster
When using Unleash, TP and Charges will be increased to their maximum value, and while under the effect of the ability, neither of these will be consumed. This will allow you to use your pet’s abilities without any limitations.

In regards to Charm having a short effect duration, we would like to make adjustments to this, but we are still looking into this at the moment and need a bit of time.


Monk
When using the new special ability, it will double your max HP and will recover your HP for the amount your HP is increased.

Also, on a side note here, while it won’t take place in the upcoming version update, we would like to unlock the new special abilities for Monstrosity in the future.


Ranger
Our aim for Overkill was to in a completely different direction than Eagle Eye Shot. Eagle Eye Shot is an ability that allows you to deal steady damage without gaining enmity, but Overkill deals large damage in exchange for enmity, so we do not have plans to add an enmity reduction effect to it.


Thief
In addition to the effects that can be stolen by Aura Steal, Larceny will allow you to steal monsters' special abilities as well. In the case where a monster has several enhancements active, the special ability will take the highest priority for stealing. When the effect is stolen, it will be removed from the monster, and the effect will be granted to the player that stole it. Even if you steal the ability from them after it has been used for a bit, the effect duration will be reset when stolen, so you will gain an effect duration that is the same as if you used it yourself.

However, there are some exceptions. Astral Flow cannot be stolen. This is due to the fact that the specs for Astral Flow used by monsters is different than that of what players use, and it is a type of ability where the effect is elicited upon use.

One more ability that is treated specially is Meikyo Shisui. While you will be able to steal and use Meikyo Shisui from monsters, it will not be possible to stop them from using their weapon skills. This is due to the fact that the behavior of monsters with this ability is different.


Corsair
When using Cut Card, rolling a 5 will only reset the original special abilities. If you roll a 6 it will reset both the original and new special abilities.
*Currently there is a bug and when using Wild Card in the November version update it will only reset new special abilities. We apologize for this inconvenience and will be fixing it as soon as possible.


Warrior
When using Brazen Rush the effect will decrease over time, but there will still be a significant increase to your double attack rate even right before the effect wears off.


White mage
Asylum will not only protect against magic based effects, but it will prevent various enfeebling effects and dispel effects used by monsters. However, it will not have an effect against certain abilities where there is a prolonged area of effect enfeeble.

While there have been comments that the effect duration is too short, the effect itself is very strong, so we’d like to look into this very carefully for adjustments. With that said, we will be implementing it with the current effect duration; however, we will be looking into adjustments.


Dark knight
There have not been any changes to the amount of TP absorbed while on the Test Server. The amount of TP absorbed will depend on the delay of the main weapon you have equipped.


Geomancer
As Widened Compass extends the area of effect for geomancy spells, the animation effect will also expand.


Red mage

Make it possible to use for multiple spells while under the effect duration instead of just one
As the magic effects that this ability apply to include those that completely incapacitate enemies’ such as Sleep and Silence, if we were to increase the effect duration, strategies that involve completely neutralizing enemies would become possible. Since we designed content giving consideration towards these type of strategies, we would have to implement complete resistances, and the range of strategies would become limited. Due to this, we will be making the ability apply to only a single spell.


I can’t visualize a way to use this
Currently, the hardest content in the game is Delve, and in a lot of cases the use of enfeebling spells is somewhat limited to Paralyze and Silence, but with the new seal battlefields and higher tier mission battlefields that will be added in the November and December version updates, there will be a greater selection for enfeebling magic that can be used.


Boost both the enfeebling magic effect and the effect duration
By enhancing your MND with the equipment that is currently available, we feel you are able to achieve a sufficient effect for enfeebling magic. Also, we designed this ability so you can choose to stack it with Saboteur, so we do not have any plans of making these additions at the moment.



For these new special abilities, there are some aspects where the way they work might be a bit difficult to grasp until you actually encounter the situations where they can be used.

With the new special abilities, we’ve designed them so there are attack based ones such as Brazen Rush, which is a straight damage source and Clarion Call that will give advantages in battle when used proactively, and also defense based abilities such as Larceny and Stymie that can be used to counter enemies depending on the situation.

In regards to the latter type of abilities, we feel that you’ll be able to understand their usefulness once you encounter the situations they can be used, and while there may be differences in opinion before implementation between the developers who stand in the position of the monsters and adjust these abilities and the players who form strategies and use them, they are by no means bad abilities.

The development team will be making adjustments in the event that after implementation the effects are not achieved as planned, and we will be looking at your feedback to base these adjustments off of. However, as I have said in the past, we’d like you all to try them out in a variety of situations and try to find scenarios where they are most useful.

[Byrth]

I believe there may be a translation error in the Corsair addendum. Wild Card is glitches in such a way that it does not reset SP2s, not that it exclusively resets them.

[Zumi]

I hope you are prepared for how catastrophically unhappy this is going to make a lot of people. Not only red mages are going to be angered by this, but the rest of the XI community will be disgusted at how developers have ignored us YET AGAIN.

Demon's post above will represent the feelings of a lot of people. This is not acceptable.

(edit) Or, rather, would have represented, were it still there...

I think these abilities are fine, jeez you people seem to get upset over every little thing they add. Can't you just sit back and play the game? All the crying is getting a bit over the top.

[SNK]

I hope you are prepared for how catastrophically unhappy this is going to make a lot of people. Not only red mages are going to be angered by this, but the rest of the XI community will be disgusted at how developers have ignored us YET AGAIN.

Hate to tell you but you don't speak for all the community. Princess RDMs are a thing of the past. A lot of people need to realize it and move on.

[dasva]

I don't know what's worse the attitude of who cares how horrible it is screw rdm or why complain about bad stuff. Or SE devs complete lack of understanding on how the game really works.


Point 1: You say because sleep and silence are so powerful that we shouldn't be able to keep landing over the course of a minute. Except both spells last for a minute or longer anyways <.<. And with sleep we can't dmg it at all or it goes away so all it really saves is having a guy in twilight gear RR3 hold mobs

Point 2: You say we players wont know until we use it but unless you make it bypass immunities it's the same thing as elemental seal. And a counter point to that I say until you guys really play the game like us you wont understand just how horrible this is or how just how much debuffing in general has fallen into such a state of disrepair.

Point 3: Makes no sense as far as an argument. Ok you told us what we already know about how to enhance debuffs. Oh goody it works with saboteur which already has gimped potency against all ITG monsters

[Tohihroyu]

And once again Call Wyvren is still 20 minutes, I guess Dragoon is not very popular in the jp community. 2 hours get shortened to 1 hours, get new 1 hours, yet Call wyvren still staying at 20 minutes guess its still loldrg in Japan ┓(´_`)┏

[Ascadia]

Make it possible to use for multiple spells while under the effect duration instead of just one

As the magic effects that this ability apply to include those that completely incapacitate enemies’ such as Sleep and Silence, if we were to increase the effect duration, strategies that involve completely neutralizing enemies would become possible. Since we designed content giving consideration towards these type of strategies, we would have to implement complete resistances, and the range of strategies would become limited. Due to this, we will be making the ability apply to only a single spell.

The base unresisted duration of Sleep is one minute; Sleep II is ninety seconds. Silence has a duration of two minutes. Unless the effect duration for Stymie were to be extended for longer than 60 seconds, this excuse is invalid.


I can’t visualize a way to use this

Currently, the hardest content in the game is Delve, and in a lot of cases the use of enfeebling spells is somewhat limited to Paralyze and Silence, but with the new seal battlefields and higher tier mission battlefields that will be added in the November and December version updates, there will be a greater selection for enfeebling magic that can be used.

I use every enfeeble at my disposal on Delve (except for Poison because it sucks) and rarely have trouble landing anything on Rdm/blm. If for some reason I experience a resist, I can use Elemental Seal to force the enfeeble to stick. We're using the full range of enfeebling magic at our disposal now. To nip this in the bud before it blooms, not having to sub blm for an additional burst of magic accuracy is not a valid reason for Stymie's existence/current form.


Boost both the enfeebling magic effect and the effect duration

By enhancing your MND with the equipment that is currently available, we feel you are able to achieve a sufficient effect for enfeebling magic. Also, we designed this ability so you can choose to stack it with Saboteur, so we do not have any plans of making these additions at the moment.

I actually agree with this one in the sense that potency/duration doesn't need to be increased with this JA due to Saboteur. However, there needs to be some bonus to Stymie. Currently, it's a watered-down Elemental Seal on a much higher recast timer. You're giving us an inferior version of something that we already have and telling us to give it a chance because we haven't used it yet. The problem with that is is that every time we use Elemental Seal, we're using Stymie +1.

This is the most important part: you're telling us to wait until we encounter a situation where we would use Stymie before we dismiss it as useless. If I encounter a situation wherein I need more magic accuracy, I'll use Elemental Seal because it'll be ready 10 minutes from its time of activation as opposed to an hour. How do you guys (SE) not see how poor of a JA Stymie is?

[Fynlar]

Silence has a maximum duration of two minutes.

Edited for accuracy; I don't know if that's actually correct, but just so it's noted, Silence's duration is *extremely* randomized and can potentially wear off in a mere second or two (before you even see the message in the log saying that it landed). This is a completely independent factor from resists; it's just the nature of the spell, and can still happen even when used with ES. I'd imagine that Stymie would do nothing to change this.

[saevel]

Seeing as I've done a metric sh!t ton of delve, the RDM's will CSS Tulu @50% to make the fight cleaner. They also CSS scorp after the BLU's AT wears off, for the same reason. I can't thing of anything in Foret that we CSS.

SE's answer is complete horsesh!t and demonstrates how they have no idea how we play the game. It needs changed RIGHT F*CKING NOW, not in two years when they around to fixing it.

Camate are you listening. SE is about to release a completely useless ability. The player base, the ones who play this game and have mastered playing Red Mage are the ones telling you this. When the professionals are telling you that your idea is stupid then you might want to f*cking listen. Otherwise the developers are about to make themselves seem very very stupid.

[Snprphnx]

Again, why does the Ranger description list Triple Shot as being enhanced, since Ranger does not get it.

[dasva]

Again, why does the Ranger description list Triple Shot as being enhanced, since Ranger does not get it.

Actually it says increases rate of triple shot. It's not referring to the ja but the chance to shoot 3 times. Though I am kinda sad since now it says increases rate of triple or double shot while before it was garuntees triple and double shot which kinda sounds like 4 shots every /range or turning each shot into a minibarrage lol

[Fynlar]

Otherwise the developers are about to make themselves seem very very stupid.

Like that's never happened before :rolleyes:

[MarkovChain]

Edited for accuracy; I don't know if that's actually correct, but just so it's noted, Silence's duration is *extremely* randomized and can potentially wear off in a mere second or two (before you even see the message in the log saying that it landed). This is a completely independent factor from resists; it's just the nature of the spell, and can still happen even when used with ES. I'd imagine that Stymie would do nothing to change this.

Most enfeebles like para and slow, and silence in this case, have random duration even at capped macc. There is a hidden resist state that allows a maximum of 1 minute duration and possibly additional states. I've never seen silence wear off a couple seconds after landing though but that could imply that the spell has many resist rates. Under capped acc it has a minimum of 30 sec duration IIRC.

[Fynlar]

Silence just has way more randomness in its duration than Para does (Slow doesn't have any, actually; you might be thinking of Gravity, which does have some)

It doesn't matter what the target is, the immediate Silence wearoff can happen even on scrub mobs, or even if you ES it. It's the nature of the spell, not anything to do with partial resists (although, presumably, it CAN still be partially resisted too just like other spells)

[Teraniku]

And once again Call Wyvren is still 20 minutes, I guess Dragoon is not very popular in the jp community. 2 hours get shortened to 1 hours, get new 1 hours, yet Call wyvren still staying at 20 minutes guess its still loldrg in Japan ┓(´_`)┏

Yeah and Call Wyvern used to be DRG's SP ability @ 2 hour recast......

[MarkovChain]

Silence just has way more randomness in its duration than Para does (Slow doesn't have any, actually; you might be thinking of Gravity, which does have some)

It doesn't matter what the target is, the immediate Silence wearoff can happen even on scrub mobs, or even if you ES it. It's the nature of the spell, not anything to do with partial resists (although, presumably, it CAN still be partially resisted too just like other spells)

yes but silence can't get lower than 30 sec when no resisted

[Ophannus]

I wonder if these will be given to us for free like the mog satchel or if they will be quested or if they will unlock w/merits?

[Annalise]

While I like both the BST and SMN new one hours, I still think the SMN one should be lengthened to 1 minute duration to match BST. Especially since most sic/ready moves activate quicker than bloodpacts. Bloodpacts are stronger than Sic/Ready, but the SMN is still limited by MP and BST gets a 300 TP bonus which balances it a bit.

[dasva]

While I like both the BST and SMN new one hours, I still think the SMN one should be lengthened to 1 minute duration to match BST. Especially since most sic/ready moves activate quicker than bloodpacts. Bloodpacts are stronger than Sic/Ready, but the SMN is still limited by MP and BST gets a 300 TP bonus which balances it a bit.

That doesn't really balance it though. Even at 300% tp against anything other than fodder bps will do a good 10X as much as the best ready moves. Idk if you saw it but there was a vid of a smn soloing some vwnms before their sp2 ran out. And that was before soa equipment came out. I'm fairly certain that as it is right now smn will put out more dmg but bst will have slighlty better survivability at throwing pets at things

[Tile]

Idk if you saw it but there was a vid of a smn soloing some vwnms before their sp2 ran out. And that was before soa equipment came out.

Yea but to be fair Papesse isn't a normal Smn.

[Kincard]

I think these abilities are fine, jeez you people seem to get upset over every little thing they add. Can't you just sit back and play the game? All the crying is getting a bit over the top.

Yeah, they should really create an official channel of some sort where people can go to submit their feedback and complaints about the game or something.


I don't know what's worse the attitude of who cares how horrible it is screw rdm or why complain about bad stuff. Or SE devs complete lack of understanding on how the game really works.

I'm already past the point where I'm ever surprised SE adds stupid things to the game, for me its more the "we spent a year doing pretty much nothing" part that really gets me.

[dasva]

Yea but to be fair Papesse isn't a normal Smn.

Very true but it was also before lvl 113 avatars, staffs with 120 pet mab and an armor set that can get up to 150 pet mab on it too lol. Kinda want to see just how much dmg a smn can throw out there in a few seconds lol

[Bluestar2kx]

I think these Abilities look rather nice. Least some of them do.
Maybe not stellar but even some of the current ones aren't great. Nothing can be perfect, and we've had enough of the OP'd stuff.
I'm very curious about the pup and nin abilities. Mnk isn't bad though, HP healed for the amount buffed.

With the Relic updates, and new abilities, looks to be a nice november update ^.^
You can't please everyone, nor should anyone try, but I'm content.

[Bntyhuntrx]

How come no one is bringing up the fact that the ability being added for thief is exactly the same as the merited ability "aura steal"

Any thoughts on this. Shouldn't thief's new ability actually be new. Maybe increase TH effect by an extra level or something.



A response by camate or a developer would be appreciated.

[Bntyhuntrx]

Additionally while we are talking about new abilities, is there any plan to give us more point options in merited weaponskills. We really should be able to unlock and put 5 merits into all of the merited weaponskills. not just 3.

[Bntyhuntrx]

A little off topic, is there any chance that twilight scythe will be reverted back to the way it was originally. Based on the lower dmg compared to level 100+ weapons, giving the twilight scythe the full time ability to deal non-elemental magic damage would not over power the weapon.

But based on the current 10 seconds that is available with the enchantment, the weapon is all but useless.

I think the twilight scythe would be very beneficial in current content very similar to the usefulness of the ws effect of Murasamemaru against certain damage resistant nms.

[Bluestar2kx]

Additionally while we are talking about new abilities, is there any plan to give us more point options in merited weaponskills. We really should be able to unlock and put 5 merits into all of the merited weaponskills. not just 3.

Specialization hun.
What people used to do until aby. Would be nice if we had to do that again.
Gave a bit of element to the game again.

[FrankReynolds]

Specialization hun.
What people used to do until aby. Would be nice if we had to do that again.
Gave a bit of element to the game again.

WTF are you talking about? Everyone had the same merits before abyssea. Go look at the census. Were you that special snowflake who merited chr on war or something?

[Bluestar2kx]

WTF are you talking about? Everyone had the same merits before abyssea. Go look at the census. Were you that special snowflake who merited chr on war or something?

Actually I was referring to specialization as in, people had 2 maybe 3 primary jobs, and fully geared/merited them.
These days however, everyone has 22 mainjobs and no specialization, except in restricted merit categories.

[Aezelas]

While I like both the BST and SMN new one hours, I still think the SMN one should be lengthened to 1 minute duration to match BST. Especially since most sic/ready moves activate quicker than bloodpacts. Bloodpacts are stronger than Sic/Ready, but the SMN is still limited by MP and BST gets a 300 TP bonus which balances it a bit.

I don't really know what to think about the smn one.
Players have been asking for bp recasts to be inately reduced, as a fix to the job.
I don't want to judge until i see ingame what it actually brings to smn, but i still have doubts.

[Camiie]

Actually I was referring to specialization as in, people had 2 maybe 3 primary jobs, and fully geared/merited them.
These days however, everyone has 22 mainjobs and no specialization, except in restricted merit categories.

And then you invariably get stuck with 2-3 primary jobs that aren't good for any event because the job balance is non-existent. The only way to avoid that is if your 3 jobs are WHM BRD and COR.

[FrankReynolds]

Actually I was referring to specialization as in, people had 2 maybe 3 primary jobs, and fully geared/merited them.
These days however, everyone has 22 mainjobs and no specialization, except in restricted merit categories.

That was an option based on a person's preferences. If you had time, you could do everything. You even got a funny hat to prove it. There is a difference between choosing and being forced to choose. Have you seen those car commercials on TV? I'll take sweet and sour chicken over just sour chicken every day.

[Babekeke]

According to the update notes, BST new SP gives THE ENEMY 300% TP, lol!!

[FaeQueenCory]

And then you invariably get stuck with 2-3 primary jobs that aren't good for any event because the job balance is non-existent. The only way to avoid that is if your 3 jobs are WHM BRD and COR.

That was an option based on a person's preferences. If you had time, you could do everything. You even got a funny hat to prove it. There is a difference between choosing and being forced to choose. Have you seen those car commercials on TV? I'll take sweet and sour chicken over just sour chicken every day.
Bold for emphasis...
I don't have 22/22 @99... most ppl I know don't either.
Very few have I met who have the full 99s... and usually they have been playing for 10years.

I don't like BRD... in fact... I HATE playing it.
I got it to 50 just so I could brd proc in abyssea as BLM/brd.
I will never level it beyond 50 because it's one of the most horrible jobs I have ever had the displeasure of leveling.

But there are those people who love it.

People level the jobs they enjoy playing...
They gear the jobs they enjoy playing.
Because they don't want to play the jobs they hate.

Sure there are a few people who level and gear everything...
But that is not the norm.
It is not the standard.

Not everyone is a 999-completionist. (that's completionists who go beyond the 100%... Those are the completionists who in FFX have 9s for every variable on every character in the game. I know someone. All those 9s... They hurt my soul.)
Let the completionists have their fun, but don't demand that everyone else become something they are not.

ON-TOPIC EDIT:
So... I'm still updating...
Do these new 2hrs just poof on you at 96?
Are they Merits like the WSs?
>_>
Why did the new 2hrs require no work or effort... but the REM update quest demands delve wins...
Not that Merits are "work"... but it's at least some effort...

[Camate]

According to the update notes, BST new SP gives THE ENEMY 300% TP, lol!!

Apologies! This has been corrected to read:

"Increases the accuracy of Charm and eliminates the recast time of Call Beast, Sic, and Ready. Sets pet's TP at 300 when either Charm or Call Beast is used."


Likewise there was an error with thief's new special ability as well and has been corrected to the below:

"Steals one beneficial effect from the target enemy.
* New special abilities cannot be stolen."

[Babekeke]

Apologies! This has been corrected to read:

"Increases the accuracy of Charm and eliminates the recast time of Call Beast, Sic, and Ready. Sets pet's TP at 300 when either Charm or Call Beast is used."


Likewise there was an error with thief's new special ability as well and has been corrected to the below:

"Steals one beneficial effect from the target enemy.
* New special abilities cannot be stolen."

This makes me assume that mobs in the new SKCNM battles can use SP2 o.0

[Vriska_Serket]

Okay, so now how about revealing that the entire RDM SP has been a horrible mistranslation and it's not actually an hour-recast Elemental Seal? No? Please?

[SNK]

Okay, so now how about revealing that the entire RDM SP has been a horrible mistranslation and it's not actually an hour-recast Elemental Seal? No? Please?

My god, Give it up already with the pissing and moaning over RDM..

[Terrigenesis]

My god, Give it up already with the pissing and moaning over RDM..

Your on the wrong forums then. Pissing and moaning is all the official forums are about.

[Vriska_Serket]

My god, Give it up already with the pissing and moaning over RDM..

has it stopped being a problem?

no?

then no.

tyty ^^

[Ophannus]

Fly High wears off after 30 seconds on my character despite being advertised as a 45second ability.

[SNK]

has it stopped being a problem?

no?

then no.

tyty ^^

That's the thing. You and a lot of people have pissed and moaned for months and months over RDM's lack of real utility anymore. SE doesn't seem nor care to listen anymore. The job will never be like it was in 2004/2005 anymore and the sooner you like catch on to that the better off you'll be. The use of "^^" just makes you sound more like a petulant child then anything.

[Vriska_Serket]

That's the thing. You and a lot of people have pissed and moaned for months and months over RDM's lack of real utility anymore. SE doesn't seem nor care to listen anymore. The job will never be like it was in 2004/2005 anymore and the sooner you like catch on to that the better off you'll be. The use of "^^" just makes you sound more like a petulant child then anything.

you seem mad

take a nap

[FrankReynolds]

I stole Mighty Strikes from Chukwa today with Larceny, the duration of MS on me was 45 seconds. This despite the NM's own Mighty Strikes seeming to last around 10-15 seconds each time. I was surprised to get the full WAR version rather than the NM's mini version although Chukwa's shorter MS could just be due to retreating into the shell, idk tbh I rarely fight him. But I like the new THF ability a lot now lol.

Seriously? being able to crit for 45 seconds in abyssea is a good 1 hour ability? Shouldn't your crit rate be close to cap anyways in there?

[FrankReynolds]

No, being able to steal 2hours with a high success rate is a good ability. Also I play a lot outside of atma-world, where this ability would be useful. I was just saying I liked the new THF sp, but feel free to get angry about somebody being happy with something, if thats how you get your jollies.

It doesn't work on anything that you would actually "Need" to steal an ability from to win. It's like chrome trim on a Honda Civic. I'm not mad at the guy who likes it, but I certainly don't want him telling Honda that it is just fine to leave out the airbags and put more chrome instead.

[Fynlar]

I stole Mighty Strikes from Chukwa today with Larceny, the duration of MS on me was 45 seconds. This despite the NM's own Mighty Strikes seeming to last around 10-15 seconds each time. I was surprised to get the full WAR version rather than the NM's mini version although Chukwa's shorter MS could just be due to retreating into the shell, idk tbh I rarely fight him. But I like the new THF ability a lot now lol.

Chukwa does not have any sort of "mini" Mighty Strikes; it has always been the full 45 seconds it's supposed to be. Additionally, it doesn't ever retreat back into its shell unless its Mighty Strikes have expired (that's how the NM works; it drops its defenses whenever casting or using a WS, or whenever Mighty Strikes is up).

It's nice to know that you seem to get the full duration of the SP stolen regardless of how much of it has already been used up on the enemy, though.

[SNK]

you seem mad

take a nap

Who's mad? If anyone's pissed off it's a lot of career RDMs who can't handle the fact their new SP along with a few others pretty much suck. lol Seeing some of you post stuff like this...


Okay, so now how about revealing that the entire RDM SP has been a horrible mistranslation and it's not actually an hour-recast Elemental Seal? No? Please?

is watching a train wreck everytime someone like you cries and cries and cries knowing they'll be ignored by the devs. I know you take the game seriously obviously but why don't you find some use for RDM with the tools that you're givin and make it work. The new SP is worthless. We all know this. We also all know that they arn't going to change it just because you're bitching. Make RDM work with what you have and not with what you want that will never come.

I mean if you really want to make RDM better or get something better, Why not suggest something with some actual ides of how you'd like RDM to be that wouldn't "break" the game instead of making rage posts all day over how RDM gets ignored.

The job is a jack of all trades with the whole concept of being able to do a lot but never being the best at any of it. SE took it to the extreme and well RDM got put from being a top teir job in 2004/2006 to right around the same level as lolpup *No offense to anyone who loves pup* so it's hard to take posts like yours serious when you can't seem to do anything other then make short lil posts with nothing other then...


Okay, so now how about revealing that the entire RDM SP has been a horrible mistranslation and it's not actually an hour-recast Elemental Seal? No? Please?

You come off sounding like an ass with this line of posting. I mean hell, I'm a BST main and you don't hear me QQing at how worthless the job is for event related stuff.

[dasva]

That's the thing. You and a lot of people have pissed and moaned for months and months over RDM's lack of real utility anymore. SE doesn't seem nor care to listen anymore. The job will never be like it was in 2004/2005 anymore and the sooner you like catch on to that the better off you'll be. The use of "^^" just makes you sound more like a petulant child then anything.

That's the thing. You and some people like you have pissed and moaned for months and months over people pissing and moaning at legitimate problems. The people you are bitching at don't care and the sooner you like catch on to that the better off you'll be.

Seriously seeing people bitching about bitching is just hilarious especially when the original complaints are over 9000% valid while the shut up and take it responses aren't

[FaeQueenCory]

you seem mad

take a nap
Vriska.
Stop your trolling.
No one likes how many irons you have in the fires.
Why can't you just stay in the Bubbles like a good ghostie.
;p

[saw the name and couldn't resist.... :S]

[Bluestar2kx]

Seriously seeing people bitching about bitching is just hilarious especially when the original complaints are over 9000% valid while the shut up and take it responses aren't

The complaints may be valid but their not at the same time, the reason I say that is, yes, the job is unloved lately. But it's wrong in believing it's the only job that is. Every job comes and goes all the time in usefulness and favorability, complaining indefinitely isn't necessarily going to remedy the problem, and as you can see, it just starts more problems then it solves.

Ranger used to be the hot job.
Thief used to be the hot job.
Samurai used to be the hot job.
Ninja used to be the hot job.
The current favorites seem to be sch and mnk. (Bard always has been)

People used to hate dragoon, dancer, puppet master (pup got a lot of hatred because it lacked a higher h2h skill like monk), and monk. People used to like Red mage, black mage, summoner. (black had it rough after Toau though)

Complaints over each of those jobs are both valid and not at the same time. Jobs go in and out, some are favored by players, by SE, some are ignored, and then favored later. The reasons for all of it change all the time, what makes red mage so special right now, esp about this one Job ability? What will happen when later this JA is found to have a good use after all?

Personally, with my limited but growing experience with red mage, I think it's quite good. It has advantages my scholar doesn't have, like sticking enfeebles, having nearly limitless MP (By simple definition not practical) and a reasonable melee capability and damage absorption. I'm sure there's more I'll find out as i level.

[dasva]

If by lately you mean the last 8 years or so then yes. And no one is saying it's the only one it's just right now in a thread about sp2s it is getting dicked over in the sp2 category supposedly for reasons that don't even realistically apply to the game.

As far as the side points you are making the thing is it isn't a matter of players liking it or using it more or even SE whimisically bostowing yums here and there sometimes one job and sometimes another but consistently to sam so much is rdm consistently has gotten the least out of any update if anything at all for longer than most people have played the game. Finding a good use for the ability implies that there are enfeebles that are game breaking if you can land them. There aren't. It also implies that you couldn't land the spell on the mob without immunobreak before now since everything that can land without immunobreak will land with elemental seal but it does seem like sytmie also gets around this sorta soft immunity. On everything else elemental seal will do the same thing except from a subjob on a 10 min timer and all spells and the blm sp2 will do that for duration with -emnity. If they specifically go out of there way to make a mob that caters to this sp2 it might be good in that situation. Such a situation doesn't exist currently. And saying things like hey landing sleep and silence several times in a minute because they stop enemy actions when they will last longer than that unless they get resisted just doesn't make sense. Even less so in a game where they are perfectly fine with people stun locking mobs for minutes at a time or letting blu litterally aoe petrify as much as it wants for a full minute

The thing is you I'd hate to come out and just say it but you are wrong on how good rdm is right now. Like you say sticking enfeebles. But right now sch and rdm are pretty much tied with macc on enfeeble unbuffed. Well before this update I haven't done new gear sets since it since it just happened. Before the ilvl skill to macc update sch was waaaaaaaaaay ahead. But then sch gets weather, klimaform and focalization and will come out slightly ahead. Though it doesn't really matter since the debuffs you were using could be landed with good sets before the ilvl update at a decent rate and now with another 200 or so macc are a joke to land. Mp efficient they are again about even until you factor in stratagems. Ok sch will never be a good melee on anything anywhere near your ilvl and it wont have quite the survivial rate. But in any pt function sch is preferable to rdm

[Bluestar2kx]

So basically what you're saying is proving my point. To a degree.
Monk was basically ignored by, pretty much everyone as far as gear, new abilities (oh boy, we got footwork!), but most esp players in most situations except the old KRT parties. Unless you had no other 75 job, then you got invited to chi blast kirin for an hour. In those respects, I can sympathize with Red mage, because that was my life for about a year into my endgame time (about 2007-8 by the time I went for such events) but i was always told to come summoner, or white mage.

This isn't a new problem, nor is it exclusive to red mage.
The biggest difference is red mage had very little JA's, monk had a lot.
I think Ranger was in such a unloved case too, except for endgame however, after the range attack adjustments. (though it too got new JAs) Same with black mage after Toau.

Moving on to this new ability.
I think it's only fair to reserve judgment until we see if they carry out their statement that new events are coming that will favor this ability. Perhap it doesn't just have macc, perhaps it has potency, something that increases the power of the enfeebling spell cast with the ability active so it proc's more often on more powerful monsters. It just came out a few days ago after all, we need to test it and see if it does. Wouldn't be the first time SE added something with a hidden effect, nor are they always forthcoming about hiding effects.

Obviously i'm not a career red mage, so I've no way to test this in any situation, nor am I in adoulin events as of yet.
But I don't think giving SE a fair chance is unreasonable. This ability could be useful, maybe not in adoulin, but new content it maybe, and as I said, it may have effects we don't know about yet, effects that could make that new content need or even require a red mage, or multiple red mages.

As for red mage vs scholar.
They may be tied for macc, but not the enfeebling spell selection. Red mage still wins that category, although (again not being a high level red mage) I can't test the potency of the tier 2 enfeebling merit spells vs the regular. Phalanx I don't know about, the stats on wiki show it's basically the same as the tier 2 except can be cast on others without using accession.

Scholar definitely wins in raw nuking power, which is fun on scholar ^^ But you burn MP so fast (poor black mage lol) sublimation isn't enough to keep up, and overwrites refresh ;; At my scholar's level so far, refresh 2 would be nicer than sublimation. Stratagems help of course, but spending them all on parsimony to conserve mp seems wasteful.

But red mage would be able to cast more frequently, possibility evening up the damage gap with endgame staves. My friend was telling me stone I can hit like a truck and almost reach stone III damage with the right gear and III can reach almost IV's damage. So I don't know if scholar having tier V access is great or not as he said it doesn't scale the same way as tier 1, 2 and 3 do with that gear, 4 and 5 seem to stagnate in scaling. But i can't compare yet sadly, only my automation has tier V access, and she's only averaging about 1k unresisted lol.

As for melee power, well, I don't know the endgame practicality of that, but for my work it could be very helpful with the right equipment. Might help (with good gear and /war) to keep my partner who's a black mage from dying all the time lol. (yeah, totally over nukes) Maybe i won't refresh :P muhahaha! ^.~

But anyway, to close, because i want to go back to bed. ^^

Complaining all the time, esp the way the other poster was, is not solving the problem. Sure be vocal, and express a problem, it won't be solved otherwise. But complaining constantly to the annoyance of other posters is a problem in itself. Surely we're better members of the community then that?

[dasva]

I beleive we have different definitions of proving your point <.<

Not sure I get your mnk point. At 75 was it kinda underloved? Sure though it did have one of the best DD 2hrs. For the last several years since then not so much. It's been getting alot and has stayed one of the best or the best DD and it's sp2 is pretty damn good as if unlocking one of best ws in the game wasn't enough for 1 update

I think it's fair to judge it by what is currently out. You can what if all you want but that doesn't change how things are now. What if they invent a mob that takes 10000X dmg from counters? Oh my everyone would be mnk or /mnk. The fact that they could do that does not in fact make counterstance any better. As far as potency I will agree that occasionally they do sneak things in I mean they snuck in counter rate to mnks (though iirc that was part of the original idea for it's sp2) but for rdm that wouldn't be the case. They specifically said it wouldn't increase potency. And I can only think of one time they specifically said something would definitely happen and then go back on it.

I'll repeat the what if isn't a real argument again here... as far as other abilities idk if you've read but SE members have come in and defended that it was good just as is no hidden abilities. That just landing sleep and silence multiple times would be overpowered. If there really was some kind of hidden effect in there that redeems it that they put in that would mean there explanations were flat out lieing when they were defending it. Do you really think SE would add an ability that looks like it sucks but has some hidden good effect and then when it comes time to calm the masses about it instead of revealing that it has something else good about it lie and say that no just the part that we know of that sucks is actually good? That said going to start testing my current theories on it

Slow 2 is 39% vs 25% slow if fully meritted and with capped dmnd. Paralyze I/II doesn't have concrete numbers but against the nms neither procs well. Blind II is the same potency of nins blind. Dia/bio III are just as strong as II with quickdraw. Phalanx 2 back at 75 was actually worse then phalanx now at 99 5/5 phalanx 2 is exactly the same as phalanx but ya know without having to use 5/10 group 2 merits. Now being able to cast them directly on others instead of of having to get within AOE range well risk eating AOEs is a slight benefit but it's kinda mitigated with the fact sch can increase duration by 2.5X and well embrava to keep folks alive.

Nuking wise really the thing to do now is just spam tier 1s. Which should put them close though sch getting much better nuking weapons and gearing/jas would put it a little ahead there still. As far as refresh II vs sublimation that's only because you would have a higher lvl rdm casting it then you using sublimation. Refresh II is 6 and you get it at 82, at 75 sublimation is 6, at 85 it's 7, 95 it's 8.

And yes tier one nuking is the thing now. This is because new staffs add a set amount of dmg to every magic spells base dmg so obviously percentage wise helps lower base dmg spells more and with how little they cost and how fast they cast now it's just alot better. Basically new staffs do pretty much same dmg as the 35% boost trial staffs for T5 but adding 200 or so base dmg to stone 1 will litterally triple it's dmg. So basically the new staffs have kept T5 dmg exactly where it was while double to tripling T1 spells and you can basically chainspell them. Do 1k dmg for 4 mp or 4k for 156 <.<. But this is wear sch takes a bit of a lead. Yes it will cast slightly slower but it also gets to do things like take advantage of weather dmg bonus (and even more with their af3 boots) but mostly it's the fact that they get a staff that has +248 magic dmg on it but rdm only gets one with 151 though it does get a little int and mab. This is partly because right now the only weapons that rdm gets that are higher than ilvl 113 are swds which don't get that.

Oh yeah low man playing around rdm rocks. Largely because while it might not really be meaningfully tops in anything it can do a okish job at just about everything. And I'm sure it would probably melee better than every other mage out there except blu and probably beat out a few non mages too like um pld or thf and probably nin too. Though some of that is things like temper which really should be allowed to be casts on party members. That alone would make rdm a better support than an extra sch or geo.

I can't speak for other people but I try to voice my concerns over the exact nature of the problem with using knowledge from the game alot of which I personally test or borrow from others who preform well thought out tests of things to explain why things are a problem. Sometimes repeatidly in hopes of getting people in general but SE in hopes they might understand it. In the case of the players to let them know what they are in for and combine info and such and in the case of SE to hope they fix problems they haven't forseen. After all they are basically a skeleton crew right now and don't really have the manpower to test flat out glitches (I mean check out a lot of the items added this update. They don't have names on the english clients lol) let alone play the game and test how game mechanics and strategies work and interact and could use our help (I mean heck that's kinda the entire point of the test server)

[nyheen]

That's the thing. You and some people like you have pissed and moaned for months and months over people pissing and moaning at legitimate problems. The people you are bitching at don't care and the sooner you like catch on to that the better off you'll be.

Seriously seeing people bitching about bitching is just hilarious especially when the original complaints are over 9000% valid while the shut up and take it responses aren't

how about SE just cancel the new 1 hours if you people going to cry about it.

[Randnum]

how about SE just cancel the new 1 hours if you people going to cry about it.

This is actually a perfect benchmark for this. When a particular job is so annoyed by a change, even an addition, that they'd rather have nothing just so they don't have to be annoyed by seeing it in their list and remembering how stupid the change was, then you've gone wrong.

The beautiful irony in your statement is that there are probably quite a few RDM that would not care one bit if you canceled it because they'd rather keep their dignity than be given a ridiculous new ability.

It's like how many people feel about the iLvl system. They wanted the game to progress but if you gave them the choice between iLvl and NOTHING they'd choose NOTHING.

Note that as usual I have no stake in this either way so don't bother addressing it to me. I can't even play with the new toys unless I level up.

[SNK]

That's the thing. You and some people like you have pissed and moaned for months and months over people pissing and moaning at legitimate problems. The people you are bitching at don't care and the sooner you like catch on to that the better off you'll be.

Seriously seeing people bitching about bitching is just hilarious especially when the original complaints are over 9000% valid while the shut up and take it responses aren't

You must be seriously confusing me with someone else tho. This is the 1st time I've ever spoke up about this because to be quite frank... it's gotten really old. The complaints can be as valid as you think or want it to be but don't you get tired of repeating the same shit over & over?

Also if anyone's to blame for the way RDM is now it's the load of idiots who so hardcore advocated RDM melee to begin with thinking that it might actually be something viable. I will admit that at least SMN got a damn good new SP vs what RDM got but hey considering SMN hasn't been thrown a bone *or a cait sith for that matter* in years I kinda thought RDM would get something also.

Edit: Missed this..


Complaining all the time, esp the way the other poster was, is not solving the problem. Sure be vocal, and express a problem, it won't be solved otherwise. But complaining constantly to the annoyance of other posters is a problem in itself.


Hit the nail right on the damn head.

[Jerbob]

...if you gave them the choice between iLvl and NOTHING they'd choose NOTHING.
If I could give you all the Likes for this, I would. There are often people who seem baffled by the fact that there are complaints when we are given new features, and this is the reason for it. If you were in a restaurant and were given a side order of excrement with your meal, and then told that you had to eat both items or neither, you would not be impressed.

W.r.t. there being too many complaints, the fault lies with SE for creating dodgey content and being deaf to feedback. I can appreciate that seeing endless complaints can be boring but people have invested a lot of time and emotion into this game and have a right to speak up when things go horribly wrong. Blatant budget and staffing redirection and a complete lack of understanding of the game are NOT the playerbases' fault, and if people don't call SE out on it then things will just keep getting worse.

I don't think complaining once and then ignoring the issue is going to get their attention - we have plenty of evidence that this doesn't work. Indeed, if every single post on this forum was a well structured and valid complaint I'm pretty sure they'd ignore the whole lot, or simply put the forums under indefinite maintenance. However, it's better than not trying at all.

[Zarchery]

I haven't tried many of them yet.

I love the new BST ability. They should have put this in as the first instead of Familiar.

The MNK ability might be nice if it lasted more than 30 seconds. Who needs a boost of HP that short lived?

[Draylo]

You must be seriously confusing me with someone else tho. This is the 1st time I've ever spoke up about this because to be quite frank... it's gotten really old. The complaints can be as valid as you think or want it to be but don't you get tired of repeating the same shit over & over?

Also if anyone's to blame for the way RDM is now it's the load of idiots who so hardcore advocated RDM melee to begin with thinking that it might actually be something viable. I will admit that at least SMN got a damn good new SP vs what RDM got but hey considering SMN hasn't been thrown a bone *or a cait sith for that matter* in years I kinda thought RDM would get something also.

Edit: Missed this..




Hit the nail right on the damn head.

I agree, I wish they would just quit already.

[Zarchery]

Complaints are fine. We're customers, if we're dissatisfied with the product, we have the right to offer feedback in this forum which was designed for that.

What's NOT okay is the way complaints are delivered. Frankly, the vast majority of complaints are rude and abusive. Being dissatisfied with a product doesn't give you the right to be a jerk to the customer service reps.

[dasva]

SMN hasn't been thrown a bone *or a cait sith for that matter* in years I kinda thought RDM would get something also.
Not sure I'd call another +250ish avatar mab and ilvl pets in the last few months months not thrown a bone

[dasva]

The MNK ability might be nice if it lasted more than 30 seconds. Who needs a boost of HP that short lived?

I've read it gives you 100% counter rate as well

[dasva]

Complaints are fine. We're customers, if we're dissatisfied with the product, we have the right to offer feedback in this forum which was designed for that.

What's NOT okay is the way complaints are delivered. Frankly, the vast majority of complaints are rude and abusive. Being dissatisfied with a product doesn't give you the right to be a jerk to the customer service reps.

While I agree in general that complaints should be presented in a better matter it's also somewhat understandable that when complaints are presented they are completely dismissed. Especially when the reasoning given is complete BS an at times in manners that sound rather patronizing. In short they are being jerks as well and while that doesn't justify anything it makes it somewhat understandable why people are so frustrated

[Zarchery]

While I agree in general that complaints should be presented in a better matter it's also somewhat understandable that when complaints are presented they are completely dismissed. Especially when the reasoning given is complete BS an at times in manners that sound rather patronizing. In short they are being jerks as well and while that doesn't justify anything it makes it somewhat understandable why people are so frustrated
You may have a point, but some of the complaints by the users are so hateful and vitriolic that they should be ashamed of themselves. I also think that "we have heard your request, and the answer is no" is sometimes an acceptable response, but it is often treated as though it is never acceptable.

[dasva]

Unfortunately that wasn't there response. There response was nuh uh it's super awesome don't you know you can enhance potency with more mnd maybe that's why your debuffs suck. And it's just too hard for you to understand how useful they will be until you get into a situation to use them <.<. And how repeatidly casting silence and sleep would completely incapacitate monsters <.<. Aside from the fact that simply not true and multiple casts over say 30 seconds aren't going to be any better than 1 how is it ok to terror lock things for a minute with blu or stun lock things for several minutes with sch? Or blm with it's huge macc ability over time casting those same spells or brd with N/T doing lullaby?

We aren't getting a simple no we don't want you to get something good. That might have at least been somewhat accepted instead we get condescension and defenses that were rather disingenious to say the least

[Demon6324236]

I was banned for 10 days and am catching up on the posts I missed I wanted to reply to in the mean time, so forgive me if I slim some of these down and cut some minor things out in order to conserve space, the link in the top corner of the quote is there if you wanna see the full thing...


You and a lot of people have pissed and moaned for months and months over RDM's lack of real utility anymore. SE doesn't seem nor care to listen anymore. The job will never be like it was in 2004/2005 anymore and the sooner you like catch on to that the better off you'll be.Who said they wanted RDM to be king of the world soloing WKs and Delve like RDM did Sky and such? No one. People want RDM not to suck, not to be a worthless job, and so we complain. Guess what, don't like the complaints, don't read them, our complaints are justified and reasonable, how about we take your favorite jobs and throw them into obscurity by nerfing everything about it which made it good then on top of it never give it anything good ever against outside of hand-me-downs from an overgeneralized gear set? Then we can see how much you complain.


That's the thing. You and some people like you have pissed and moaned for months and months over people pissing and moaning at legitimate problems. The people you are bitching at don't care and the sooner you like catch on to that the better off you'll be.

Seriously seeing people bitching about bitching is just hilarious especially when the original complaints are over 9000% valid while the shut up and take it responses aren'tIts just an example of the stupidity these forums so often exhibit sadly.


Moving on to this new ability.
I think it's only fair to reserve judgment until we see if they carry out their statement that new events are coming that will favor this ability. Perhap it doesn't just have macc, perhaps it has potency, something that increases the power of the enfeebling spell cast with the ability active so it proc's more often on more powerful monsters. It just came out a few days ago after all, we need to test it and see if it does. Wouldn't be the first time SE added something with a hidden effect, nor are they always forthcoming about hiding effects.We had the ability to test it on the test server to see how it worked, it was Elemental Seal as we said, basically landed a single spell dead on, like Elemental Seal does, didn't break immunities, still doesn't, and it does not give potency. SE also said it would not give potency because that's what Saboteur does, for the sake of making this long post less, well, long, I will not post that here unless you actually request me to, in which case Ill take the time to go dig it up rq. For now, I hope you take my word for it.

In either case, this effect would have had use only if there were new enfeebling abilities that came out which do the exact thing they are trying to prevent us from, locking down monsters. If we got Amnesia, cool, I can see a ton of use for that so long as there are no immunities like in Adoulin and so on, however, soon as we see immunities, boom, worthless again, and that ability could never exist anyways because, again, locks a mob down to much, like Silence, but better. If you want an example of SE's fear of Enfeebling magic look no further than that of Break, a spell which petrifies a target, and by petrifies I mean it puts them to sleep in the same way sleep does with a short duration and hardly any differences, not even close to the real petrify we see from, say, mobs who cast the same spell, which petrifies us for a certain amount of time, which can be resisted or removed, but prevents any and all action from the player. Why did we not get this effect even though nearly every pre-SoA NM was immune to it in the entire game!? Because, it would lock down a mob.


Obviously i'm not a career red mage, so I've no way to test this in any situation, nor am I in adoulin events as of yet.
But I don't think giving SE a fair chance is unreasonable. This ability could be useful, maybe not in adoulin, but new content it maybe, and as I said, it may have effects we don't know about yet, effects that could make that new content need or even require a red mage, or multiple red mages.The issue is not truly even with the ability itself, its the lack of use for Enfeebling magic in any endgame setting. I specify endgame because, simply put, that's the only time a RDM worth his Chapeau now days would have any chance at being resisted, and as such, you see the issue. If we can land anything we want on NMs, and most spells hardly do anything to them to begin with, what use do we have for an ability that makes a spell land 100% of the time? I am a career RDM, and I can tell you from experience that from the moment I saw this ability, I knew how it would turn out, and its just as I expected.


As for red mage vs scholar.
They may be tied for macc, but not the enfeebling spell selection. Red mage still wins that category, although (again not being a high level red mage) I can't test the potency of the tier 2 enfeebling merit spells vs the regular. Phalanx I don't know about, the stats on wiki show it's basically the same as the tier 2 except can be cast on others without using accession.RDM's spell selection is larger in the most minor way possible. Let me explain. If you have a SCH/RDM in your party and a RDM/SCH in your party the RDM will have, without counting merits, 2 enfeebles so far as I can recall, that are not known by the SCH as well, these two are Addle, and Gravity II. Addle is learnt by WHMs, I believe even before RDMs learn it, possibly shortly after, point being, they learn it, and a WHM is in every EG party, so we can already safely assume that a WHM is in the party capable of casting, and likely landing the spell. Gravity II is a spell only known to RDMs, same as the original, however the SCH as the original due to sub job, and the gravity in the form of Weight is the same effect as the RDM's, RDM will get -20 EVA on the target that the SCH will not, that is the only difference. So the SCH loses out on a slight EVA debuff.

Moving on to the idea of merits, the potency so far as I know is not all to much higher, Phalanx is the exact same at 500 Enhancing Skill, a benchmark which all RDMs worth their Chapeau should be able to hit or at very least get extremely close to. SCHs surely have a more difficult time reaching that level, but in the end the effects are the same. Enfeebling like Paralyze and Slow are sure to be more powerful, Dia III is more powerful, and Bio is ineffective but stronger than its lower level counterpart as well, the thing is, none of these are important really. Dia III is the only one we use in today's FFXI which we place any amount of importance on, because we can not Paralyze or Slow TP attacks and through our zerging we do today due to crunch time limits in every EG event, that's all we are threatened by. This leaves us with Dia, an effect which can be enhanced by Light Shot to the point that be it Dia III or II, we can get roughly the same thing in the end.

So far as accuracy goes, if you count the JA and the best gear, a SCH should easily beat a RDM in Magic Accuracy now days, which is pathetic and insulting as that seems to be our only use SE grants us anymore.


Scholar definitely wins in raw nuking power, which is fun on scholar ^^ But you burn MP so fast (poor black mage lol) sublimation isn't enough to keep up, and overwrites refresh ;; At my scholar's level so far, refresh 2 would be nicer than sublimation. Stratagems help of course, but spending them all on parsimony to conserve mp seems wasteful.

But red mage would be able to cast more frequently, possibility evening up the damage gap with endgame staves. My friend was telling me stone I can hit like a truck and almost reach stone III damage with the right gear and III can reach almost IV's damage. So I don't know if scholar having tier V access is great or not as he said it doesn't scale the same way as tier 1, 2 and 3 do with that gear, 4 and 5 seem to stagnate in scaling. But i can't compare yet sadly, only my automation has tier V access, and she's only averaging about 1k unresisted lol.I would suggest a Sublimation/Idle set for your SCH, as well as possibly picking up the Seidr Body, its wonderful infinite MP on any lower tier nukes. Which by the way, lower tier nukes are what you should focus on any time you have any sort of MP issues, or you are fighting something without a nice amount of Refresh, because unless you can get MP back easily you probably want to use the most MP efficient spells available, which are lower tiers. Having T5 spells will not make SCH all to much better in DMG, but where SCH wins in damage with nukes is access to 1 single little staff. Atinian. Which beats out every single nuking option for RDM in the game. And by now, Mythic is also better than any RDM Nuking or Magic Accuracy option in the game as well.


This is actually a perfect benchmark for this. When a particular job is so annoyed by a change, even an addition, that they'd rather have nothing just so they don't have to be annoyed by seeing it in their list and remembering how stupid the change was, then you've gone wrong.

The beautiful irony in your statement is that there are probably quite a few RDM that would not care one bit if you canceled it because they'd rather keep their dignity than be given a ridiculous new ability.And that's exactly how I feel about this. I feel insulted and humiliated by the fact SE thought this was the right way to go with the job's new ability, and in the face of countless amounts of feedback in multiple threads still sought fit to release it as it were. I would have rathered them give RDM nothing than this waste of an ability, for the only use I have found for it since the update was paralyzing Dragua or Azdaja, because Abyssea mobs were given extreme amounts of resistance to everything they were not immune to in most cases.


Also if anyone's to blame for the way RDM is now it's the load of idiots who so hardcore advocated RDM melee to begin with thinking that it might actually be something viable.Oh, excuse me, the fault for RDM being a horrible job now is because a load of people thought it should be a hybrid job as it has been in just about every FF game? Sorry, I missed the part where us being on Relic Sword/Dagger, Mythic Sword, Empyrean Sword, having our highest skill in Swords and Daggers while no skill in staff and hardly any in club, all pointed to the fact we were meant to be a backline job.

No, if you want to blame people, its the people who went out and soloed everything in the game as RDM, and then it became SE's and all of the complainer's faults for having nerfed it into obscurity, rather than simply properly balancing the job and making it fair rather than a god. They could easily upgrade the melee aspects of RDM today as well as its gear selection and its utility and it would never come close to what it used to be.


If I could give you all the Likes for this, I would. There are often people who seem baffled by the fact that there are complaints when we are given new features, and this is the reason for it. If you were in a restaurant and were given a side order of excrement with your meal, and then told that you had to eat both items or neither, you would not be impressed.

W.r.t. there being too many complaints, the fault lies with SE for creating dodgey content and being deaf to feedback. I can appreciate that seeing endless complaints can be boring but people have invested a lot of time and emotion into this game and have a right to speak up when things go horribly wrong. Blatant budget and staffing redirection and a complete lack of understanding of the game are NOT the playerbases' fault, and if people don't call SE out on it then things will just keep getting worse.

I don't think complaining once and then ignoring the issue is going to get their attention - we have plenty of evidence that this doesn't work. Indeed, if every single post on this forum was a well structured and valid complaint I'm pretty sure they'd ignore the whole lot, or simply put the forums under indefinite maintenance. However, it's better than not trying at all.Again explaining just how I feel. We have made well reasoned posts many times in the past, or at least I have, but I have seen how little it has ever gotten me, which is why I end up repeating the same complaints over and over, maybe if I say it enough SE will take notice, but even if they don't, its better than having done nothing to even try. As you said, the fact we have to deal with all of these issues anyways is largely not a fault of the players, but something we have been made to deal with by force, and of course we are going to complain about such an outrageous thing.


I agree, I wish they would just quit already.So the player base can get smaller, resulting in more people quitting, less people participating in game, less events being done, less money going to SE, and so the game can be shut down even sooner? More people quitting would just take more people off this game as its profit continues to dwindle. Wishing we would quit does nothing but make you look like an idiot because it would do more damage to the game than us staying and complaining on the forums where we can vent out rage, only to go back to the depressing game that FFXI has become where we will continue to play anyways.


Not sure I'd call another +250ish avatar mab and ilvl pets in the last few months months not thrown a boneYeah but admittedly RDM gets to come to events and Dia or Silence NMs now, I guess a massive damage increase that gives a job a viable use is equal to letting a RDM do the equivalent of a half decent SCH and giving them nothing else, right?


While I agree in general that complaints should be presented in a better matter it's also somewhat understandable that when complaints are presented they are completely dismissed. Especially when the reasoning given is complete BS an at times in manners that sound rather patronizing. In short they are being jerks as well and while that doesn't justify anything it makes it somewhat understandable why people are so frustratedI admit, many of my posts today are fueled by rage and anger at what I think of as incompetence when addressing player feedback(note, not insulting the developers, but stating what I think of it as in many cases, not saying that it is what it is), I used to post well thought out posts first before submitting myself to my anger on a topic and lashing out, however, I stopped doing that for the very reason of what you just said. I have grown tired of their failure to respond properly to the feedback they have received and after so long of feeling ignored, I have gotten frustrated to the point I no longer see a reason to temper my anger and put it into a well thought out and polite post, but instead, I often just speak my mind pure and simple, which results in a 10 day ban like the one I just had lifted today, the result of my mind speaking on the topic of the new RDM SP.


I also think that "we have heard your request, and the answer is no" is sometimes an acceptable response, but it is often treated as though it is never acceptable.
Unfortunately that wasn't there response. There response was nuh uh it's super awesome don't you know you can enhance potency with more mnd maybe that's why your debuffs suck. And it's just too hard for you to understand how useful they will be until you get into a situation to use them <.<. And how repeatidly casting silence and sleep would completely incapacitate monsters <.<. Aside from the fact that simply not true and multiple casts over say 30 seconds aren't going to be any better than 1 how is it ok to terror lock things for a minute with blu or stun lock things for several minutes with sch? Or blm with it's huge macc ability over time casting those same spells or brd with N/T doing lullaby?

We aren't getting a simple no we don't want you to get something good. That might have at least been somewhat accepted instead we get condescension and defenses that were rather disingenious to say the leastThank you so very much for making this point, I wanted to make it since the day I was banned and they made that dreadful post saying that it was to stop Silence and Sleep from locking mobs. Jobs have already been capable of doing exactly what they are saying they do not want RDM to be able to do for a long time. BRD has had the ability to use what is basically Chainspell Sleepgas which can not miss the target, every 10 minutes, with abilities which last a full minute. Yet, RDM is told our new SP which no one wanted would be good, but could only be used for a single spell to prevent doing exactly what BRD has been able to do for so long, and ours must be on a 1 hour timer rather than a 10 minute timer such as Elemental Seal or Troubadour.

I admit, I wanted to mimic BRDs, but not in this way, I wanted Soul Voice for RDM, for Enhancing Magic, that would have been very fair for us, a different kind of buffing, hardly any party buffs without /SCH, only 6~7 minute durations rather than nearly 10 minute durations like BRD is capable of, almost all buffs would still be minor like Phalanx or Enspells, but we would have some that could shine. Rather than giving us that, which is so very close to their original idea, they thought this ability had potential still, and implemented it and then gave it restrictions which make no sense, and prevent the ability from being truly useful in hardly any situation worth caring.

They did not simply tell us our idea was bad, they told us we were wrong about why it was bad, that we did not understand, when we most certainly do, and that it has a use, when they fail to even understand the true issue, and above all, told us effectively that our feedback did not matter, because while we had so many people saying not to do it, they showed not a bit of care, and instead pushed forward. They keep talking about how they want more feedback, they will listen, they want to move forward and make FFXI a better game for everyone to enjoy, but at the same time they ignored a massive amount of people telling them not to do this all because they thought we did not know. To me, we have ever reason to complain about that.



Please forgive me for the massive post, but I have had many things I have wanted to say on these forums after the last 10 days as well as this update, after being unbanned today I wanted to make this post replying to it all, since I was unable to speak my mind during the original time of the post.

I hope you all understand.

[SNK]

Maybe you should ask yourself why you were banned to begin with.

Oh missed this nugget.


Oh, excuse me, the fault for RDM being a horrible job now is because a load of people thought it should be a hybrid job as it has been in just about every FF game? Sorry, I missed the part where us being on Relic Sword/Dagger, Mythic Sword, Empyrean Sword, having our highest skill in Swords and Daggers while no skill in staff and hardly any in club, all pointed to the fact we were meant to be a backline job.

Just because your job is on a weapon doesn't mean you're going to be good with it no matter what it is. SE is retarded for putting jobs being able to use certain weapons with no benifit whatsoever. The fact you held all this crap in waiting with baited breath to be unbanned so you come come to RDM's rescue makes me wonder why you give so much of a crap about a job you know that SE isn't going to do anything with anymore other then give it silly lil buffs which serve no benifit whatsoever outside of solo *Looking at you Temper* or whatever else suits your fancy. RDM's a good job even now just it won't be anything you think you want it to be.

Sooner you wake up and realize that, the happier you'll be.

[Okipuit]

Greetings,

Previously Producer Akihiko Matsui made the following comment about Charm:


In regards to Charm having a short effect duration, we would like to make adjustments to this, but we are still looking into this at the moment and need a bit of time.

The development team is planning to make it so the effect duration relies on your main weapon’s item level, and they are aiming to do this in the December version update.

The reason for only relying on your main weapon is to make it easier to understand without having to procure various other equipment, and the rule is the same as when using “Call Beast.”

[Okipuit]

Thanks for all the feedback regarding Stymie.

While this may end up being a repeat of what was mentioned previously by Producer Akihiko Matsui, the development team feels that when it comes to the newly implemented seal battlefields, this ability is effective and has its uses.

We encourage you to enter these battlefields and try out strategies using this ability.

On the other hand, the development team is aware that when it comes to Delve and other alliance based content, red mage is having difficulties performing, and they will be looking into adjustments for the future.

[Demon6324236]

Thanks for all the feedback regarding Stymie.

While this may end up being a repeat of what was mentioned previously by Producer Akihiko Matsui, the development team feels that when it comes to the newly implemented seal battlefields, this ability is effective and has its uses.

We encourage you to enter these battlefields and try out strategies using this ability.

On the other hand, the development team is aware that when it comes to Delve and other alliance based content, red mage is having difficulties performing, and they will be looking into adjustments for the future.We understand that you feel it has its uses, but we do not need it, we do not use it, and we do not like it. Has any serious RDM said it was a good ability?

The fact of the matter is Matsui that during this game's life we have had two ways things could go, how the players want it, or how the development team wants it, the sad thing is, most often it is the way the development team wants it in the end, you came saying you wanted to make this game better for all, I implore you, if that is truly your goal, listen to our feedback. You say you want our feedback, this is a chance to use it, we don't want this ability, look at just about every post you have made about the new SPs, nearly every one of them has had a reply to this because we do not want it, and we keep saying so.

How is it right or fair to tell us we can not change this, even through large amounts of feedback, because you like it, so much so that you have to mention it every time to us that you think the ability is fine as it is because we keep complaining about it? To me, its not fair, you want feedback it seems but only feedback you agree with, in this case, you do not agree with us, not because of balance, not because of the job being to strong already, but because you want to keep what you like, because you think its good and useful, and if that's what it comes down to, why should we even post feedback in the first place? I really hope you did not read my RDM thread yet, and upon doing so will do as I asked, because this ability really does drown the hopes of RDM being a good and useful job once again.

[Demon6324236]

Maybe you should ask yourself why you were banned to begin with.I got an Email telling me why I was banned, I need not ask that to which I already know the answer.


Just because your job is on a weapon doesn't mean you're going to be good with it no matter what it is. SE is retarded for putting jobs being able to use certain weapons with no benifit whatsoever.You see, part of why RDM needs a sword, and should use one and be good with it, is because in today's FFXI we have nothing we can do better than a SCH/RDM really, SCH is much better at both white and black magic than we can hope to be, it stole our role in that respect, our third part to our job, melee, is the only thing that makes us special anymore.


The fact you held all this crap in waiting with baited breath to be unbanned so you come come to RDM's rescue makes me wonder why you give so much of a crap about a job you know that SE isn't going to do anything with anymore other then give it silly lil buffs which serve no benifit whatsoever outside of solo *Looking at you Temper* or whatever else suits your fancy.If we got real melee gear, like Buremte, more often, we could use Temper and the like on the front lines, and fill that role as well as back line roles, we could also use a trait to allow us to attack while casting, which would solves that entire issue, but no, people are against the idea of RDMs ever using a sword, always have been, always will be I suppose. As for why do I care, I started as RDM and played it from then till now, I have always done my best to melee when given the chance, I have always tried to better myself, and I have always put all of my work into it, even through other jobs. My care about RDM is because I worked hard on the job, I worked hard to be good at the job, and I worked hard to learn everything I could about the job, and in the end it amounts to nothing if the job itself amounts to nothing, so I care because I think of myself as one of the best there are when it comes to RDM, and I think the job deserves better, just like every PLD feels like it deserves better, and every THF feels like it deserves better.


RDM's a good job even now just it won't be anything you think you want it to be.Please, explain to me what great use a RDM can be that a SCH/RDM can not already fulfill.


Sooner you wake up and realize that, the happier you'll be.Perhaps you are the one who needs to make the realization of RDM's place in the game currently, and you can understand the anger and frustration rather than complaining about those who exhibit it.

[Zephrose]

I'm going to have to side with SNK on this one Demon. I believe your vision and SE's vision of RDM are not in sync and I don't believe SE is in the wrong here. RDM is still a very viable job to play but in a different style than it once was.

Like all things, change comes and goes, and this is no different. SE has nerfed RDM in the past and it was terrible then but people still found a way around the nerf to make RDM enjoyable and a solid job to play. One of RDM's greatest advantage over other mages is speed and it's durability. With these together, RDM can survive in most places a normal mage cannot. I still see RDM going in to delve all the time as a Silencer/Sleeper/Mage&Tank Supporter. Just because they have some fancy swords doesnt mean they will be using them all the time. Look at Whm... for years they have decent clubs and a great WS to boot... yet when did they ever have the chance to run up to use them?

I don't mean to tear you down or belittle you, I'm simply elaborating on the point SNK might have been trying to make in their post. We all have a favorite job and we all want to see it do the best they can to our personal vision. But in the end, it's not our vision to control. We simply play with the ball SE provides us with. If they say it's fine if the ball only bounces 15 feet when we want it to bounce 20, who's to say they are wrong? It's a game they provide us with, it's up to us to make the game happen and enjoyable.

[FrankReynolds]

it's up to us to make the game happen and enjoyable.

I have a broken phone for sale ( I dropped it in the toilet) for $500. It's up to you to enjoy it. I accept paypal, visa, master card and of course cash money. How would you like to pay?

[Camiie]

@Zephrose
From long before the days of FFXI, Red Mage was a hybrid job. A jack of all trades. They melee and they cast with equal effectiveness. If it does not fit that vision, then they're doing it wrong. If it doesn't melee it's not a RDM. Melee is as much an aspect of RDM as it is for MNK or WAR or DNC.

[Zephrose]

@Zephrose
From long before the days of FFXI, Red Mage was a hybrid job. A jack of all trades. They melee and they cast with equal effectiveness. If it does not fit that vision, then they're doing it wrong. If it doesn't melee it's not a RDM. Melee is as much an aspect of RDM as it is for MNK or WAR or DNC.

Then that's your vision of it from other games. In FFXI, it is also capable of doing melee but not at the level of other melee-centric jobs. It's your word that says it's wrong, not their's. Last time I checked, SE made the Final Fantasy franchise, not the players/fans. And have mercy if a player/fan base actually controlled an MMO... Man would we be %$#@ed!

[Zephrose]

@FrankReynolds

Your sarcasm is not welcome in such an expression and I hesitate to respond to this. However, if such a thing were to happen to the game where it would reflect a broken cell phone, I would just simply quit. If you feel the game has gone to this level, I would suggest it. I have yet to see it go to that level and still have friends I enjoy playing with. So really, it's not all bad atm.

[dasva]

I'm going to have to side with SNK on this one Demon. I believe your vision and SE's vision of RDM are not in sync and I don't believe SE is in the wrong here. RDM is still a very viable job to play but in a different style than it once was.

Like all things, change comes and goes, and this is no different. SE has nerfed RDM in the past and it was terrible then but people still found a way around the nerf to make RDM enjoyable and a solid job to play. One of RDM's greatest advantage over other mages is speed and it's durability. With these together, RDM can survive in most places a normal mage cannot. I still see RDM going in to delve all the time as a Silencer/Sleeper/Mage&Tank Supporter. Just because they have some fancy swords doesnt mean they will be using them all the time. Look at Whm... for years they have decent clubs and a great WS to boot... yet when did they ever have the chance to run up to use them?

I don't mean to tear you down or belittle you, I'm simply elaborating on the point SNK might have been trying to make in their post. We all have a favorite job and we all want to see it do the best they can to our personal vision. But in the end, it's not our vision to control. We simply play with the ball SE provides us with. If they say it's fine if the ball only bounces 15 feet when we want it to bounce 20, who's to say they are wrong? It's a game they provide us with, it's up to us to make the game happen and enjoyable.

The problem is while rdm is "viable" it's viable in the same sense that thf is "viable" as a DD. It does do the job sortish but is very much inferior. Just because people continue to use it doesn't make it any better.

While I could care less if rdm can dd (I mean it does have mediocre dagger/swd skill) but having the highest base enhancing and enfeebling skill should mean something but it doesn't now and hasn't for a long time. And why should 1 job have to work around nerfs while other jobs incorporate huge buffs? I'm all for trying to make the best out of a bad situation but part of that is trying actually fix the bad situation not just walk around it and pretend it doesn't exist. I mean really that's half the point of the feedback from these official forums. It certainly isn't just to shut up and take it like you suggest

Also your anology would be more like if we want the ball to bounce 20 feet, other balls end up bouncing 30 and one deflates. Guess what that is wrong

[FrankReynolds]

@FrankReynolds

Your sarcasm is not welcome in such an expression and I hesitate to respond to this. However, if such a thing were to happen to the game where it would reflect a broken cell phone, I would just simply quit. If you feel the game has gone to this level, I would suggest it. I have yet to see it go to that level and still have friends I enjoy playing with. So really, it's not all bad atm.

Personally I would attempt to have the cell phone fixed or replaced instead of telling the user that he / she needed to make the phone enjoyable. But, that's just me. You are an excellent consumer. Personally, I see this game as an ongoing service that people pay for based on their level of enjoyment. As such, it is in the best interest of the owner of said service to make it desirable and enjoyable to as many people as possible. Without that, there is really no point in releasing updates or having discussion forums at all. I don't see it as my responsibility to make them feel good about producing gameplay that I don't enjoy by making lemonade from their lemons.

I'm glad that you have friends that you enjoy playing with, but "Zephrose has friends he / she enjoys playing with..." isn't really a very good substitute for acting on customer feedback. For me personally, this game is like a dive bar that I go to because it has nostalgia even though there are much better places to go and I could see my friends any time. Recently though, they hired a bartender who waters down the drinks and a DJ that just plays mambo number 5 on repeat 24 hours a day.

[Zephrose]

The problem is while rdm is "viable" it's viable in the same sense that thf is "viable" as a DD. It does do the job sortish but is very much inferior. Just because people continue to use it doesn't make it any better.

While I could care less if rdm can dd (I mean it does have mediocre dagger/swd skill) but having the highest base enhancing and enfeebling skill should mean something but it doesn't now and hasn't for a long time. And why should 1 job have to work around nerfs while other jobs incorporate huge buffs? I'm all for trying to make the best out of a bad situation but part of that is trying actually fix the bad situation not just walk around it and pretend it doesn't exist. I mean really that's half the point of the feedback from these official forums. It certainly isn't just to shut up and take it like you suggest

Also your anology would be more like if we want the ball to bounce 20 feet, other balls end up bouncing 30 and one deflates. Guess what that is wrong

There is something innately wrong with that thought though. All sorts of games have different tiers of character/mechanics. Just because you want one job to be better at something that another job already has the ability to do it better doesn't make it wrong. Try looking at it from a different angle and see it for it's strengths. List out what the job does in each aspect and measure it's strengths verses other jobs. In the case of Rdm, it has a couple strengths over Sch I can already think of. As for Thf, it too has strengths over other DDs as well, however raw DD power is not one of them.

To openly attack someone that is defending SE for what they are doing is just shameful. All I see is bias opinions and unnecessary crying over something that isn't broken nor fully explored. Plenty of jobs have taken a hit nerf wise or had a job rise above them. You know what that's call in MMO terms? Flavor of the (time period)... An MMO is a ever growing and evolving system. With every iteration the devs push through, the game changes slightly. Players find new ways to use their jobs. Systems are used for unintended experiences. SE gives us a game to play and we play it. I don't make the game to play it... that would be asinine. No one would like it because no one would agree on anything. Which is much like what's going on now... A bunch of complaining because they didn't get what they wanted.

This will be my last post on the subject as it seems there is no reasonable argument on the subject. Later down the road you'll look back at this time and laugh how silly all this feuding was. Enjoy your time while you have it. Don't waste it on meaningless squabbling. <Take Care.>

[Okipuit]

Fly High wears off after 30 seconds on my character despite being advertised as a 45second ability.

Fly High's duration was originally planned to be 30 seconds and we have corrected the version update information to reflect that. We do apologize for that error.

We appreciate your feedback on the new SP abilities and we do have plans to adjust some of the new SP abilities and previously existing ones moving forward. While we can't disclose specific details or promise a an implementation period as of yet, we'll be sure to let you know as soon as we receive details. We're just as anxious as you are to hear more on this. :o

[Camiie]

Then that's your vision of it from other games.

No, that's what the job was. That's the concept of it.


In FFXI, it is also capable of doing melee but not at the level of other melee-centric jobs. It's your word that says it's wrong, not their's.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11/manual/index.html?loc=en
"Red Mage
Capable of using both white and black magic, and adept at swordsmanship.
However, mastering powerful spells takes far longer than white or black mages."

From their manual to your eyes.


Last time I checked, SE made the Final Fantasy franchise, not the players/fans. And have mercy if a player/fan base actually controlled an MMO... Man would we be %$#@ed!

If players and fans are such idiots then what does that make you?

[MarkovChain]

Thanks for all the feedback regarding Stymie.

While this may end up being a repeat of what was mentioned previously by Producer Akihiko Matsui, the development team feels that when it comes to the newly implemented seal battlefields, this ability is effective and has its uses.


I have done several very hard mode battles, and I'm not the only one to find that having all mage using elemental seal (hi) is the way to go, and you have to cast 4+ sleepga or lullaby aoe with capped magic accuracy, so yeah a single use of the rdm's SP2 is going to be useless :P. Players have already told why the abilty is gimp, and they prove it by using elemental seal on non rdm jobs (double fail).

Exemple : "divine punishers" very hard mode
MNK/WARx2 : only DD atm
BRD/BLMx2 : 2 troubadour horde lullaby II, 2x elemental seal horde lullaby II
WHM/BLMx2 : 2x elemental seal sleepga as backup.

[dasva]

There is something innately wrong with that thought though. All sorts of games have different tiers of character/mechanics. Just because you want one job to be better at something that another job already has the ability to do it better doesn't make it wrong. Try looking at it from a different angle and see it for it's strengths. List out what the job does in each aspect and measure it's strengths verses other jobs. In the case of Rdm, it has a couple strengths over Sch I can already think of. As for Thf, it too has strengths over other DDs as well, however raw DD power is not one of them.

To openly attack someone that is defending SE for what they are doing is just shameful. All I see is bias opinions and unnecessary crying over something that isn't broken nor fully explored. Plenty of jobs have taken a hit nerf wise or had a job rise above them. You know what that's call in MMO terms? Flavor of the (time period)... An MMO is a ever growing and evolving system. With every iteration the devs push through, the game changes slightly. Players find new ways to use their jobs. Systems are used for unintended experiences. SE gives us a game to play and we play it. I don't make the game to play it... that would be asinine. No one would like it because no one would agree on anything. Which is much like what's going on now... A bunch of complaining because they didn't get what they wanted.

This will be my last post on the subject as it seems there is no reasonable argument on the subject. Later down the road you'll look back at this time and laugh how silly all this feuding was. Enjoy your time while you have it. Don't waste it on meaningless squabbling. <Take Care.>

This isn't a want this is what the job has been designed to be the best at. I know the job and know it well and there is nothing I would ever do that would make it more advantageous to bring a rdm other than I want to because it's my first job and I like it. Let's see what does it have that sch doesn't some T2 enfeebles that will never make or break you. Refresh II which also wont. Melleing? Lol. Dia III? Light shot says hello. Thf has Th and feint.

Attack? I don't think you know the meaning of the word. I merely pointed out the flaws in your reasoning. Aren't you just complaining because you aren't getting what you want and that being mindless sheep just taking whatever SE gives them. I play the game because I enjoy it. When serious issues arise that are enough to stop people from playing parts of it I point it out in hopes of getting it fixed? What is your goal? Trying to stop things from being fixed? Sticking it to the rdms?

For once something we agree on though in seperate ways. I find it silly right now. I always find it silly that people complaining about complaining. It's amazingly ironic

[dasva]

I have done several very hard mode battles, and I'm not the only one to find that having all mage using elemental seal (hi) is the way to go, and you have to cast 4+ sleepga or lullaby aoe with capped magic accuracy, so yeah a single use of the rdm's SP2 is going to be useless :P. Players have already told why the abilty is gimp, and they prove it by using elemental seal on non rdm jobs (double fail).

Yeah I didn't get that excuse either... I mean who does 1 BCNM an hour anyways? And so far what little I've seen it's only use is on mobs that used to be immune to certain spells but can be debuffed with immunobreak now can be debuffed once with stymie. Like sleeping skeletons. So stymie basically seems kinda like a double immunobreak. However so far I'm pretty sure I've gotten 1/2 resists for all stymie ones while immunobreak I have gotten full durations so not quite as good as that. Seems like this really should've been a 5-10min ja that rdm got going up to 99 (especially since it got so little anyways going up to 99)

[Ophannus]

Fly High's duration needs to be 45 seconds. Dragoons can only get off two Spirit Jumps and two Soul Jumps during the ability's duration which does not really equate to much extra damage. For example, on Delve megabosses, Spirit Jumps and Soul Jumps are doing ~500-600 damage each and the combined TP from all 4 Jumps is roughly 200, allowing roughly 2 more Weapon Skills during that 30 second SP2 duration that I normally wouldn't get. Unfortunately, compared to other SP2s, the damage output of Fly High is lower, especially because Jumps during "Fly High" can and will miss. I suppose the decision to make it 30s was because it also allows rapid succession of Super Jump which can be seen as a defensive role of "Fly High". Still though, Jump accuracy should be set to 100% and either a duration increase to 45s or allow the recast of Jumps to be lower if the Jumps are merited (If a Jump ability has 5/5 merit recast reduction, that Jump under the SP2 "Fly High" will be set to 6 seconds, would be perfect and not overpowered).


Larceny should steal at least 2 effects from a mob. While Larceny can steal SP abilities, most mobs do not use SP abilities, meanwhile DRKs can steal multiple effects with Absorb-Attribute with Nether Void. Many times on THF, I use Larceny to steal a Protect or Shell effect from a mage type mob only to be disappointed that I stole Refresh or Aquaveil. Having the SP2 steal 2-3 effects from the mob increases the chances of stealing a useful skill and makes the ability more attractive(considering NMs in most current content do not use SP2s but use abilities that grant multiple effects such as Batholithic Shell or Cacharian Verve)

[Babekeke]

Larceny should steal at least 2 effects from a mob. While Larceny can steal SP abilities, most mobs do not use SP abilities, meanwhile DRKs can steal multiple effects with Absorb-Attribute with Nether Void. Many times on THF, I use Larceny to steal a Protect or Shell effect from a mage type mob only to be disappointed that I stole Refresh or Aquaveil. Having the SP2 steal 2-3 effects from the mob increases the chances of stealing a useful skill and makes the ability more attractive(considering NMs in most current content do not use SP2s but use abilities that grant multiple effects such as Batholithic Shell or Cacharian Verve)

The priority rate (which has supposedly been manually set by SE) always seems to prioritise buffs which are of little to no (or at best, situational) use to the THF. MAB being prioritised over att boost for example. MDB over haste, as well as the examples that Orphanus gave.

Larceny at this point seems like it's only use vs mobs that don't use a SP ability would be if it stole ALL buffs. Not 1, not 2, but every single buff active on the mob.

I'd be content if it did a check: Does the mob have an SP ability active? Yes = steal it only. No = Steal all active buffs.

Also, thanks a bunch for giving us the only SP ability that can have NO EFFECT. Please change this so that if a mage has dispelled the buff as we're sifting through the menu to use the JA, we get an error message saying that Larceny can not be used on this mob. Larceny has no effect is a terrible thing to see in the log.

[Karah]

Ok for Larceny, as it currently stands, let's be completely honest.

Is it a little lackluster? Yes
Is it pretty awesome when the enemy does in fact have an SP? Yes

Here's the thing though, thf isn't being taken to anything that matters anymore.
So in theory it's one of, if not the most amazing SP ever, but in actual use it's basically useless.

Steal the WARs MS for some lol damage,
Steal a MNKs Hundo, /legit,
steal chainspell to save your life in true SP fashion, /hurray!
The other 19 SP abilities.... not so much =/ Many of which aren't even steal able, Mijin, Meiyko, Bene, Flow, Overdrive(?), Familiar, Spirit Surge (which enemy Dragoons do not even get lol) Wildcard, EES.... Bolster...

I mean come on, really? ~50%Cannot be stolen. 50% Can be, and 10% are of some value?

Does the ability to steal any regular ability really matter that much? Aside from a few select awesome times (stealing boost from Yovra etc) Nope., It really does need to steal many, if not indeed all active buffs to be a real 2hour (SP).

I mean, that's the original definition of the 2hour, to be used in a life or death situation, not to be consistently disappointed at every use.

[Sp1cyryan]

No, that's what the job was. That's the concept of it.



http://www.playonline.com/ff11/manual/index.html?loc=en
"Red Mage
Capable of using both white and black magic, and adept at swordsmanship.
However, mastering powerful spells takes far longer than white or black mages."

From their manual to your eyes.



If players and fans are such idiots then what does that make you?

People cry about RDM here too much.

Who cares what an 11 year old manual to a game that constantly changes says? It means nothing and so does RDM.

[Camiie]

People cry about RDM here too much.

Who cares what an 11 year old manual to a game that constantly changes says? It means nothing and so does RDM.

You answered your own question with your first statement. Just because it means nothing to YOU doesn't make it meaningless. I know that when you move the camera it seems like the world revolves around your character, but it actually doesn't. You'd do well to keep that in mind.

[dasva]

Larceny should be bumped to full buff steal. ie you take every single buff the enemy has including any sps. Not going to redeem thf probably but god it would be fun to steal all of something like Carcharian Verve. Or even awesome when it steals a buff instead of just the thf getting it the entire pt does. Or for crazy tech when it steals a buff it inflicts an opposite but equal debuff on the mob at the same time. ie you steal some super haste they get some super slow.

[Ophannus]

Meanwhile, I'm sure nobody is complaining about SAM's new SP2 because it's ridiculously, phenomenally, incredigood.

According to Llewelyn:



Confirmed:
- 45 second duration.
- Stacks with Meikyo Shisui.
- Avoids physical, magical and breath abilities.
- 20% Weapon Skill Damage increase per ability evaded.
- 60% Weapon Skill Damage cap.
- Grants 50% TP for every ability evaded.
- WSD% bonus does not reset upon weapon skilling.

Compared to many other SP2s, this is incredibly potent.


Can't Larceny be patched to steal something else. Like:

-Steal all of a mob's current TP.
-Steal a large number of Attributes.
-Steal a temp item i.e Berserk's Tonic/Fanatic's Powder/Lucid Elixir(would be random)
-Add a 60 second 'Bully' effect on the target
-Add a powerful Critical Hit Evasion Down debuff

etc

SAM and MNK's SP2s do so many things(Inner Strength doubles Max HP, heals them AND gives 100% counter) whereas many other SP2s just do one thing, and usually with a shorter duration.

Maybe Unbridled Wisdom could heal a BLU's MP to full considering they're combat mages and may not always have enough MP to cast more than a few spells (especially because UL spells are so expensive to cast), it also adds a secondary effect to the SP2 for some BLUs that have yet to learn many spells, it at least gives some kind of benefit in that case.

[SNK]

Perhaps you are the one who needs to make the realization of RDM's place in the game currently, and you can understand the anger and frustration rather than complaining about those who exhibit it.

I see RDM's place perfectly. My Linkshell loves a damn good RDM in delve. The people in our shell who play RDM do a damn good job with the tools they have and not the tools you think they should have.

[Camate]

Not sure if this is still the case nowadays, but at some point Saboteur was determined at one point to not carry its effects on non-targeted mobs with an AoE spell like Sleepga (the targeted mob will stay asleep longer than everything else). However, if Saboteur+Manifestation+Sleep is used instead, it will still take effect on every target hit (all mobs will stay asleep for the same amount of time, barring resists).

Greetings,

Currently the effect of Saboteur is not applied to AoE based spells and when using spells such as Sleepga, the increased effect duration is only applied to the initial target. However, we will be making adjustments so this effect is extended to AoE spells. At the current time unfortunately I cannot make any promises of a specific implementation time period, but once we hear developments on this we will be sure to let you know.

[Alerith]

At the current time unfortunately I cannot make any promises of a specific implementation time period, but once we hear developments on this we will be sure to let you know.

Probably around the time Cait Sith is released to Summoners.

[Demon6324236]

I'm going to have to side with SNK on this one Demon. I believe your vision and SE's vision of RDM are not in sync and I don't believe SE is in the wrong here. RDM is still a very viable job to play but in a different style than it once was.To this I will always respond, if the job is viable, what can it do that a SCH with proper gear can not? SCHs have Cure IV like RDM, but a much higher skill under the proper Art, Regen V, and Weather boosts which make their Cure IVs as strong as a Cure V, far more powerful than RDM or WHM can naturally get their Cure IVs to be. SCHs have Weather boosts for their nukes as well, which push them above us yet again, and if that was not enough, they have the best DoT spells in the game, and better access to nuking gear, especially in the case of Staves right now where a RDM's best staff is Lehbrailg +1 with proper Augments, and it does not beat out Atinian, or come close to Mythic. SCH has better Enhancing spells, able to access every party able spell RDM has from using it as a sub-job basically and adding on top of it a spell for Regain, Weathers which can give the same kind of effects as our Gain-Spells, and the ability to AoE all buffs basically, let alone Embrava. Then we come to Enfeebling, our so called specialty, where a SCH/RDM can match every spell we have, with less potency if we have IIs merited and count them into the mix here, but SCH is only missing 2 things, Gravity II, and Addle. Gravity is the same as Gravity II except the EVA penalty is 20 EVA better for II, a small boost, and Addle is able to be cast by WHM, a job sure to join in any event.

The point of all of this is that so far as magic goes, there is nothing SCH is not better at really. It can land Enfeebling Magic better than RDM with less potency, that's the best thing RDM has going for it, less accurate but more potent Enfeebles. I want someone, anyone, to tell me exactly what it is RDM can do better besides those, because I have yet to find it.


One of RDM's greatest advantage over other mages is speed and it's durability. With these together, RDM can survive in most places a normal mage cannot.This is not quiet true. A SCH/RDM with Arts up has roughly the same as 25% Fast Cast, RDM sub gives 15, Arts gives 10, a RDM99 has 30%, speed is just barely better, and hardly a matter of importance with today's level of Fast Cast gear available, so if that is what you mean by speed, its not really a point of true strength against our largest competitor. So far as durability, I fail to see how we are any better than a SCH really. We have PDT gear, most of it is the same as SCH, the only real pieces we have a SCH does not are the PDT Sword, and Genbu's Shield, with Flume Belt. That might impress if the Terra Staff did not have 20% PDT, 1% less than Shikargar/Genbu's, and took no real work to get by compare to the two. The belt might seem nice but it can be replaced easily too. Past that, we both use Gendewitha/Hagondes for PDT/DEF gear, with no real difference in our sets, our survival from Protect, Shell, and Phalanx, are hardly accountable either, since SCH can match those as well. Lastly it comes down to Regen V vs our F rating in Shield, since I am sure the thought of using a Shield instead of a staff makes it sound more defensive, but blocking almost never happens because our skill is pathetic, and Regen V allows a SCH so much HP/Tick that it massively helps their survival in a situation. Overall, both of those two things, SCH is better at when played well.


I still see RDM going in to delve all the time as a Silencer/Sleeper/Mage&Tank Supporter. Just because they have some fancy swords doesnt mean they will be using them all the time.No, but the Swords are not really important in that situation either, and the swords are an underutilized resource that stops us from bringing anything unique to the table. You mentioned RDM as a Silencer, Sleeper, Mage and Tank Supporter, but I fail to understand what we do here that SCH can not. SCH has more Magic Accuracy than RDM has, even if they had the same amount, Silence is easy to land on all but the Peiste, the Eft it lands easy but the duration is bad, so it needs to be spammed, and that's about the same you get with any RDM. Sleeping things is easier for a SCH, RDM needs /SCH and Klimaform to have a chance at being more accurate with Enfeeblings than a SCH is, and its the best sub for RDM anyways unless you need Stun or Elemental Seal, so chances are a RDM will not have Sleepga, and will not want to waste a Stratagem on Manifestation to throw one out. On the other hand, SCH has an abundance of Stratagems and their recast is about 30% of what a RDM/SCH's is, which makes sleeping much easier. Supporting mages may be a bit weaker, sure, less Refresh, but here is the question, what is Refresh for? The SCH/BLMs do not need it, they hardly spend MP as it is, and the MP they do spend is likely recovered by their own Sublimation, or is easily recovered by the 3 Refresh a SCH/RDM provides, GEOs need it to cast their spells and heal themselves, casting their spells is a valid reason, but it should not be much an issue in reality so long as they are not healing themselves, and SCH heals better than RDM as I covered before, especially with Regen, so this is a mute point. Lastly you have Tank support, where its the same as mage really, with the only stand out thing about RDM being they can Phalanx without being near the tank, and not really anything else.


Look at Whm... for years they have decent clubs and a great WS to boot... yet when did they ever have the chance to run up to use them?WHM has never had a history for being a melee job, and the situation is hardly the same. SCH does what RDM does, in every magic category. If WHM had an all magic, staff only counterpart with better abilities and spells in almost every case, would WHM be used? The answer is likely no, what's the point? But for RDM, melee is the only thing we have that stands out from SCH, and unless they revamped RDM from the ground up and made it a full on mage while giving us a lot more Enhancing Magic, full party targeting, powerful buffs, and a full revamp to all Enfeebles, it just would not make RDM useful next to SCH which does our magic based jobs so easily.


I don't mean to tear you down or belittle you, I'm simply elaborating on the point SNK might have been trying to make in their post.I do not mean to do those to you either, this is a subject I feel strongly about in this game, and I feel like SNK, and anyone else who really thinks RDM should be left alone, or people should not complain, are in the wrong. I tried to highlight the reasons in this post, explaining why each thing is not in RDM's favor, and giving points to RDM in the few things it is better at, but the evidence is far in SCH's favor of being the better job, so much so it makes RDM hardly useful.

I see people take RDM to Delve, I am happy, I get to participate, but it does not stop the voice in the back of my head telling me a SCH/RDM could do the job better, because I know they can, its fact, and even though people do not use it often or at least do not shout for it often, does not change the fact. Its only a matter of time till people realize these things, to me, that's all it is, and while I can be useful now, it wont last forever, and my use now is more out of a lack of knowledge on the part of leaders, than it is a real use for my job, I sadly know that, and it eats away at me every time I join a party.


We all have a favorite job and we all want to see it do the best they can to our personal vision. But in the end, it's not our vision to control. We simply play with the ball SE provides us with. If they say it's fine if the ball only bounces 15 feet when we want it to bounce 20, who's to say they are wrong? It's a game they provide us with, it's up to us to make the game happen and enjoyable.I can not live with that ideal anymore. I was shunned by people for trying to make use of my melee, take pride in the one thing RDM could do so much better than SCH that set it apart, and many people did not invite me. I got by only being invited by friends or linkshell members who took pity on me, its for that reason I made an Almace, and later my Excalibur, working hard to make my RDM better in those fields, farming the best melee sets possible, even if it cluttered my inventory horribly, and so on. I worked with what SE gave me and tried to make the game enjoyable, making a Relic was by far the most stressful thing I did in the game because it was basically the only thing I had left I could do to try getting my job invited to things. Once it was done, I did get more invites, people saw my determination to make it work and let me come. The thing is, I am tired of working to try making a game more enjoyable. I should not have to work for hours upon hours today to make my Excalibur level 119 just so I can be turned down by the grand majority of people doing things like Delve and such who will never take my job as a melee, only a mage, where I get to know constantly that I am mediocre.

I can not believe it is so hard to ask for this job to be improved and be understood by people, how many people will argue its fine or that its dead forever, I fail to understand it.

[Demon6324236]

I see RDM's place perfectly. My Linkshell loves a damn good RDM in delve. The people in our shell who play RDM do a damn good job with the tools they have and not the tools you think they should have.You not once explained what RDM can do that SCH can not, till you can provide me an argument that actually explains why RDM is better than SCH/RDM, why it had a use, this argument will mean nothing. I know people take RDM to Delve, I know people who do it, but it does not change the fact that the majority of SCHs I know have Atinian and the ability to do my job just as well as I do, and that has never changed, at best RDM has a slight upper hand right now with Buramenk'ah, and that's at best, as soon as the 119 Staff comes out there will be no exceptions, SCH will flat out be better at Enfeebling than RDM is. No matter how good a job your RDMs do with what they have, it does not change the fact that the same person would do better as a SCH/RDM doing the same job, if they know how to play SCH.

[Zephrose]

You not once explained what RDM can do that SCH can not, till you can provide me an argument that actually explains why RDM is better than SCH/RDM, why it had a use, this argument will mean nothing. I know people take RDM to Delve, I know people who do it, but it does not change the fact that the majority of SCHs I know have Atinian and the ability to do my job just as well as I do, and that has never changed, at best RDM has a slight upper hand right now with Buramenk'ah, and that's at best, as soon as the 119 Staff comes out there will be no exceptions, SCH will flat out be better at Enfeebling than RDM is. No matter how good a job your RDMs do with what they have, it does not change the fact that the same person would do better as a SCH/RDM doing the same job, if they know how to play SCH.

I know I said I would never post in this thread again but man... you are just too dramatic not to respond too. HA!

It really sounds like you need to pick up Blue Mage or Scholar... Red Mage has been in this slump for years. It does have it's strengths that you don't seem to see. In it's current pool of jobs, Sch might just be the upper tier of jobs to play in it's Magic Role. And that goes the same for Blu in it's Melee/Magic fusion role.

All I can say at this point is...

http://img.pandawhale.com/46248-Dr-cox-Scrubs-deal-with-it-gif-JkyG.gif

[Demon6324236]

It really sounds like you need to pick up Blue Mage or Scholar... Red Mage has been in this slump for years. It does have it's strengths that you don't seem to see. In it's current pool of jobs, Sch might just be the upper tier of jobs to play in it's Magic Role. And that goes the same for Blu in it's Melee/Magic fusion role.It has strengths I don't see, yet, no one has the ability to state. If I wanted to play BLU or SCH, I would, fact is, I do not, I like RDM, I built my Excalibur and Almace for RDM, there is no reason why RDM can not be fixed, none at all, other than people ignorant enough to think its fine as it is and SE's lack of belief that it needs changing, the former likely fuels the latter as well which only makes things worse in the end.

I say again though, if you can state the advantages and strengths RDM has which makes it worth bringing to events and not just a job you bring because it can get the job done even though other jobs do it better, please, be my guest, explain them. Till then, arguing RDM has strengths I am missing is a pointless argument, I have played the job for years, I have played it primarily over every job, and I have tried to make it work for every situation and in every way I can, and yet I fail to see this mystical power which is so cleverly hidden within the job that makes it fine as it is.

[Zephrose]

My statement still stands. It doesn't seem you see the strengths of Rdm that others might see. And the reason this might be is clear in your continuous debate. The job is not curbed to your liking or vision. If you want to make Rdm more front line hybrid, go for it. But the game is only going to give you so many tools to do so. This has been the case since it's existence in FFXI. I simply pointed out Whm in the same light because it has some interesting tools that it may never fully use, similar to Rdm. This goes for Brd as well.

I'm not going to state my points if you already know the job so well. If you have such knowledge, then I suggest you use it.

And lastly, this is a service you pay for. Much like going into an amusement park. You pay a fee to get in an have fun with the services offered. If you don't like the service, there are plenty of other parks to choose from. You wouldn't expect Disney Land to change a ride because you thought it wasn't "Fun" enough just because you paid. They'd simply tell you sorry to hear your feedback and wish you a better time.

Enough trolling for the day. Have fun.

[Demon6324236]

My statement still stands. It doesn't seem you see the strengths of Rdm that others might see.


I'm not going to state my points if you already know the job so well. If you have such knowledge, then I suggest you use it. This is the entire issue with the debate here about RDM's use. One side says the job sucks and needs to be fixed, providing ideas and ways it can be as well as examples of the issues the job faces. The other side says the job is fine, complains about people complaining about it, and refuses to give examples of its power that leads them to believe its good in the first place. If you can not provide examples of how its good, better than the other options and not just a mediocre replacement, then your argument has no backbone, your just sayings its good without any reasons or facts as to why it is.


And lastly, this is a service you pay for. Much like going into an amusement park. You pay a fee to get in an have fun with the services offered. If you don't like the service, there are plenty of other parks to choose from. You wouldn't expect Disney Land to change a ride because you thought it wasn't "Fun" enough just because you paid. They'd simply tell you sorry to hear your feedback and wish you a better time.Disney Land also would not keep a ride the way it is if at all when no one likes it, if no one rides that ride, its nothing more than a waste of space, in this case, some people do ride that ride, but so few people do and there is another ride right next to it which 90% of the people riding them agree, is better.

[Twille]

What exactly do you want from RDM that you aren't getting?

[Zephrose]

Rdm Points:
Solo-ability
Shadow Tanking
Easy access to cap fast cast
Quick Response crowd control
Quick Response support
Quick Response Stun lock
Longer lasting enfeebles
Easier access to PDT and MDT gear

Background:
Since Rdm's haydays of years past, Rdm has been primarily a solo mage. What I mean by that is, they are selfish mages. A lot of their spells were self targeting and not share-able. I'm sure you know. But since the addition of Sch, Rdm has been able to turn that around. They added a party flavor to Rdm that wasnt once there. This also came shortly after they nerf Rdm on some of their solo aspects such as kiting and the like. Basically, they wanted Rdm to get back into the mix.

Pre-75s, Rdm/Sch was so top notch, it was insane. Salvage was easier with it. Low man anything was easier with it. Post-75 days, Whm took over. Rdm was not up to snuff for curing such large amounts of HP in abyssea, had limited access to procs and for obvious reasons no DD. Since then, the transition has moved to Sch with it's great gear selection and constant ask to stun with strategems. Yes, Sch can help support and help cure and help enfeeble but really in those runs they have a set role with no deviation. That's where Rdm comes in. To facilitate those needs to help support the group. It's almost like the times when Rdm was very helpful for Kirin runs or Jailer pops or Sandworm fights or what have you. The very nature of Rdm is jack of all trades, master of none. If you ask them to make better over another job, they would be breaking that core aspect.

Rdms, at a time, use to be the solo kings. I know, I was up there with them. I use to solo stuff on Rdm and farm pops or items to use later. It was fun. When they broke it, I was angry. But I found another way with support low man tanking. Rdm/nin was and still is pretty bad ass. But it doesn't get use today because there is no need for it anymore. There's really no need to solo anything on Rdm old school when you can just take a DD up to it and blow it up.

Rdm play aspect is always changing, just like all 22 of the other jobs. It's the evolution of the game and what the developers put into it. Yelling and screaming about how you don't like the job and want it the way YOU want it, isn't going to make them change anything. My analogy of the amusement park was just that. If you wanted into Disney land and told them you didnt like space mountain because it didnt have all the loops or falls you wanted, they would laugh and tell you to go somewhere else. But enough people like the ride to not warrant a change and so they dont touch it. This is no different.

Do you realize that really 1% of the people playing the game post on these forums? And maybe 20% of those playing come to read this bu*$#&@t? Those numbers might have grown since the loss of players but really, there's not a ot of people complaining about Rdm.

And not to say the pebble can not move the mountain if it really tried but in this case, SE's statistics will be the only proving grounds to whether the job is failing or not. And to tell you the truth, this is the last place they are looking for statistics.

[Demon6324236]

Rdm Points:
Solo-ability
Shadow Tanking
Easy access to cap fast cast
Quick Response crowd control
Quick Response support
Quick Response Stun lock
Longer lasting enfeebles
Easier access to PDT and MDT gearSolo is great, but so many jobs can solo now days and some better than RDM, not really a good role to fill either when no content worth doing today can be soloed except a few NMs outside of Delve maybe, about it.

Shadow tanking is really not to great, the only time we get to /NIN is solo, so really its the same as above all over again.

Easy to cap Fast Cast is like saying WHM can easily cap cure potency, sure, it can do it easier, that doesn't really make it a good job just for that reason, its just less work to attain the same goal just about every mage can these days, especially in their respective magic field. The next three points fall into this same thing, Quick Response bleh is basically just Fast Cast's effects, that's about it.

Quick Response Stun Lock is funny, SCH Stuns so much better than us without a SP its made CSSing go out of date, people use SCHs now because of that.

Longer lasting enfeebles, unless you mean via Saboteur I don't think we actually get a duration bonus, except maybe our +2 Body, in which case 10% is worth what? 5 seconds? And they take no time to cast so that's not even important really.

Easier access to PDT/MDT gear. For PDT, RDM uses full Gendewitha, Dark Rings, Darkness Earring, Black Earring, Shikargar, Genbu's Shield, Twilight Torque, and Flume Belt, leaving room for Shadow Mantle. Of that list the only 3 pieces a SCH can not use are the Sword, Shield, and Belt, the Sword and Shield are replaced by a staff from the AH, the belt is replaced by a back piece. This leaves our PDT sets different, and SCH actually being easier to cap because they can avoid 2 NMs and an entire series of trials, however they lose out on the Nulls from the Shadow Mantle.


Since Rdm's haydays of years past, Rdm has been primarily a solo mage. What I mean by that is, they are selfish mages. A lot of their spells were self targeting and not share-able. I'm sure you know. But since the addition of Sch, Rdm has been able to turn that around. They added a party flavor to Rdm that wasnt once there. This also came shortly after they nerf Rdm on some of their solo aspects such as kiting and the like. Basically, they wanted Rdm to get back into the mix.The spells that were single target, were all melee based spells. Enspells, Phalanx, Spikes, all things you make use of on the front lines, and not the back lines, showing the idea of meleeing being meant for the job, a use we never took.


Pre-75s, Rdm/Sch was so top notch, it was insane. Salvage was easier with it. Low man anything was easier with it. Post-75 days, Whm took over. Rdm was not up to snuff for curing such large amounts of HP in abyssea, had limited access to procs and for obvious reasons no DD. Since then, the transition has moved to Sch with it's great gear selection and constant ask to stun with strategems. Yes, Sch can help support and help cure and help enfeeble but really in those runs they have a set role with no deviation. That's where Rdm comes in. To facilitate those needs to help support the group. It's almost like the times when Rdm was very helpful for Kirin runs or Jailer pops or Sandworm fights or what have you. The very nature of Rdm is jack of all trades, master of none. If you ask them to make better over another job, they would be breaking that core aspect.I have said many times on these forums, though possibly not this thread, I do not want a boost to our healing, we are as good as we should be, and we do not need a boost to our nuking, its perfect as it is, the 3rd part to it is melee, which we are constantly denied from both devs and players alike. Past that we need a boost to the amount of Enfeebling magic in the game, and their potency, to make them worth using more than just a small safety net. What I mean is, if Paralyze had a chance to stop TPs or something powerful, it might be better, more useful, but most enfeebles right now are hardly powerful, most are hardly worth casting at all, like Blind, which outside of special mobs has no use because Accuracy is never an issue for NMs, not outside of Abyssea at least.


Rdms, at a time, use to be the solo kings. I know, I was up there with them. I use to solo stuff on Rdm and farm pops or items to use later. It was fun. When they broke it, I was angry. But I found another way with support low man tanking. Rdm/nin was and still is pretty bad ass. But it doesn't get use today because there is no need for it anymore. There's really no need to solo anything on Rdm old school when you can just take a DD up to it and blow it up. Part of the issue. RDM needs some DD aspects to it, the third part of the jack of all trades, if we could cast and melee at the same time that would solve the issue real well, we could melee, deal DMG, and still do some supporting, and it would fit with the idea of the job, but to cast while meleeing is a huge DPS drop, and to ignore out magic side outright makes it pointless to come RDM in the first place.


Rdm play aspect is always changing, just like all 22 of the other jobs. It's the evolution of the game and what the developers put into it. Yelling and screaming about how you don't like the job and want it the way YOU want it, isn't going to make them change anything. My analogy of the amusement park was just that. If you wanted into Disney land and told them you didnt like space mountain because it didnt have all the loops or falls you wanted, they would laugh and tell you to go somewhere else. But enough people like the ride to not warrant a change and so they dont touch it. This is no different. I know a lot of RDMs, I know hardly any who say the job is fine as it is, who get to play it often without either being solo or having to make their own parties just to get an invite. As for me saying I don't like how the job is, tell me, if we don't like it and say nothing, how will things ever change? They wont, they have no chance of changing when people are silent, if we yell and scream we want changes and they do nothing, you know what, tried, failed, but at least I didn't sit in a corner complaining about those who spoke their minds on how the job was rotting away.


Do you realize that really 1% of the people playing the game post on these forums? And maybe 20% of those playing come to read this bu*$#&@t? Those numbers might have grown since the loss of players but really, there's not a ot of people complaining about Rdm.Most people gave up on the job already, they saw the massive amount of horrible choices made for the job and how things never changed for it really, it always just got screwed, the SP2 was so heavily opposed by every single person, not a single person I have seen was in favor of it, at best, they had the wait and see attitude that maybe it wouldn't suck, but no one thought it was actually good. People did rise up, people did complain, and we got no where, but if your ignoring that fact, the fact people did speak out about it, then I have no idea what your expecting.

[Demon6324236]

What exactly do you want from RDM that you aren't getting?A job with a use that can not be filled so easily by another job.

To be more specific I suppose in this case, changes to the job to allow melee to be useful, more gear like BLU has so we seem like a real hybrid, a trait that lets us melee while casting, and unique enfeebles with the inability to be cast by anyone besides RDM, and enough potency to make RDM worth bringing, even if not necessary, by easing the fight through restrictions on the monster in question.

[dasva]

What exactly do you want from RDM that you aren't getting?

That's not necessarily the point the point would be what exactly would you want from a support job that rdm offers that you can't get with others?

[dasva]

at best RDM has a slight upper hand right now with Buramenk'ah, and that's at best, as soon as the 119 Staff comes out there will be no exceptions, SCH will flat out be better at Enfeebling than RDM is. No matter how good a job your RDMs do with what they have, it does not change the fact that the same person would do better as a SCH/RDM doing the same job, if they know how to play SCH.

Bura is still 15 less macc than NQ atinian. So I'd imagine they are probably about even on enfeebling with maybe a slight lead to sch more so if it is taking advantage of weather and klimaform

[Demon6324236]

Bura is still 15 less macc than NQ atinian. So I'd imagine they are probably about even on enfeebling with maybe a slight lead to sch more so if it is taking advantage of weather and klimaformYeah, RDM's only reason for possibly winning right now is that RDM can use the same things, Weather and Klimaform with /SCH and top it off with a higher Enfeebling Magic Skill naturally, which should put it just a bit above SCH with their Magic Accuracy JA I would think. What's annoying more than anything to me personally is that even if I finish my Mythic and 119 it, a 119 Delve Staff SCH will have more Magic Accuracy than I will most likely, since my Mythic will have no INT/MND, and only +30 Magic Accuracy on it outside of the ilevel Magic Accuracy, where as the staff will likely have something like 15 INT/MND and the same Magic Accuracy or more than my Mythic will.

[Calatilla]

Of that list the only 3 pieces a SCH can not use are the Sword, Shield, and Belt.

I read your entire post and I agree with everything you said, RDM needs something specific that no other job can so easily cover. Just wanted to point out though, SCH can use Genbu's Shield. And I'm pretty sure they can make a pdt club? so that would really only leave the belt.

[Demonjustin]

I read your entire post and I agree with everything you said, RDM needs something specific that no other job can so easily cover. Just wanted to point out though, SCH can use Genbu's Shield. And I'm pretty sure they can make a pdt club? so that would really only leave the belt.Ah good point, at the time I guess I had forgotten SCH was on it, but the Club is WHM & GEO only it seems so Staff would still be their weapon of choice. Either way~... Thank you for the correction. ^_^

[dasva]

So it's been a few months SE and stymie is still piss. You gunna keep telling us it's just rain?

[Demonjustin]

So it's been a few months SE and stymie is still piss. You gunna keep telling us it's just rain?I really wish they would fix it, and overall, I wish they would fix Enfeebling in general, a real fix to it. I mean, I know it's off topic but the more I look at Stymie the more I notice how stupid they treat Enfeebling in general. For instance, they made note of the fact NMs in Legion have no immunities, same with mobs in Adoulin, but really what does that even count for?

Azdaja, level 90 content NM, has such a high resist rate for Paralyze that I literally can cast in nearly the best possible MND Enfeebling Accuracy set in the entire game as a RDM, and yet, Paralyze will not stick.

This same type of stupid resist rate is all over Legion when it comes to ailments like Sleep and Silence. In Legion I can't land Silence on any of the NMs basically, I admit, I haven't tried every single one, but I basically gave up after everything in An was 'resisting' my Silence in such a way that it may as well be immune. I mean if you have level 99 content, say you remove their immunity, and yet a player using the job you basically built to enfeeble with more than 300 more Accuracy than was even possible at that level cap, and they still can't even come close to landing it, you have not removed the immunity, you are just calling it a resist when you know it's not actually meant to be possible.

I feel like the reason they shoved Stymie down our throats the way they did is because they don't want to really fix Enfeebling as it should be, where a great RDM can actually legitimately lock a NM down, they want us to rely on a JA as our only way to stick certain ailments, and this was the JA to end all JAs that would be able to do that. This, was their JA they felt they had to give us to achieve that goal rather than the one we almost all said we wanted, an Enhancing JA that would bolster our Enhancing Magic for a time, a Soul Voice for RDM if you will, much like their original idea but better in how long it lasted and in how much it enhanced our Enhancing Magic.

That's how I have started to look at it, and feel about it in the months since its release. I really hope one day, we will have a useful JA rather than Stymie, but the crowd died down, we stopped complaining, not because it's useful but, at least in my case, because I felt it was pointless to even try anymore.

[dasva]

And there is the fact that our debuffs have almost never meant the difference between win/loss directly. Back in the day when it was popular it was more of a difference of how much curing the tanks/dds would need and with the limited to no refresh that could in the long run mean difference between win/loss. But now when we can probably pull of 30 refresh anywhere who cares. We need debuffs that can reliably decently lower the dmg coming our way or increase the dmg we are dealing to the mobs. Not just the occasionaly para or slighlty slowing the rate with slow. I notice they just gave smn amnesia why not rdm? Give it a built in -50 macc if you feel it's too powerful so we have to really build macc sets to land it. But don't make it so it wont land even with full macc set and ES and stymie like you tend to do. Make dia IV since apparently actually have enhance enfeeble effect gear/ja actually work on dia III seems too hard

[Ophannus]

I'll just leave this here:


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/masamune_seraph/wtf_zps212a4ff2.png

[Raydeus]

And I'll just leave this here:

Homestead dagger : Can RDM equip it?

"Nope."

Ok then, Homestead Blade : Can RDM equip it?

"Nope."

Fine so I'm not a melee, how about the nuking staff?

"Lulz no. But you can have another wand that is worse than Eminent so you can try to melee with it in Reives! =D "

Probably some of the devs got owned in Ballista by a RDM and that's where all the hate is coming from. Otherwise I don't understand why they go out of their way to f with us even on things as basic as lvl 117 weapons and armor.

To this day I'm still surprised RDM got Temper, Composure and Eminent Sword and Dagger. But those were only a glitches it seems.

[Demonjustin]

Ah this good ol thread.

I'll say it now and every time the subject comes up, we wanted something different than Stymie. We wanted our original concept for it we were given, one that would be basically Soul Voice for RDM. That's the one we wanted, not this. We were told that once we had it we'd like it, but that never came to pass, I've still to this day yet to meet the RDM who's happy we got this rather than that of which we were originally planed to get.

We got it, we don't like it, and yet the chances of it ever changing and near nullified. To change it they'd have to do nothing more than change the effects and then change the Job Points for it. How hard is this? Not at all really, so few things are tied to Stymie right now that changing it should be as simple as adding a new ability. Just change the effect itself to double Enhancing Magic potency for it's duration, change the duration to 3 minutes rather than 1 minute as it was originally on the test server. After this the only other change should be the Job Points, and all that would need to be done with that is add Enhancing Duration % as an enhancement as we have with enfeebling right now for Stymie. I'd be more than happy with +1% Enhancing Duration per point as that'd result in +30% by the end of Job Points, stack that with gear and a RDM would buff others for about 5 minutes while having about 15 minutes on their own buffs.

The sad thing is, the ability is in the game already. I can think of no time in this game's history that we've ever seen an entire ability removed or it's effects completely changed from one thing to another. The very fact they implemented this ability as it was simply killed any resistance we had to it, that's why threads on it died down, why the player base simply stopped fighting it. It was another time we seemed to get the idea that SE was going to do what SE wants to do, and if we don't like it then we can complain as much as we want but chances are, it'll never change. This ability was put in how it is today and we stopped fighting it, we stopped arguing over it, we just let it be at this point. Even if we raised hell we'd likely make little to no progress anymore because with how they are about things they just don't change this kinda stuff. I'd love the team to prove me wrong, a post from Matsui saying he understands how Red Mages feel left out and genuinely wants to help the job out, I'd love it even more if they said they would change this ability to what it was supposed to be, but that day will likely never come.

[Malithar]

I'll just leave this here:


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/masamune_seraph/wtf_zps212a4ff2.png

What difficulty was that? Not to rub salt in Rdm's face, but had to hold VD EV a week or so ago as a Geo after the Pld dced for 5ish min. Indi-Focus + Geo-Languor and didn't have a single resist out of 2 gravs and 3 binds while he logged back in. Still get resists occasionally (maybe 60-70%ish land rate) with just Indi-Focus. Stymie should at least be 100% land if the mob's not immune. <.<;

[dasva]

What difficulty was that? Not to rub salt in Rdm's face, but had to hold VD EV a week or so ago as a Geo after the Pld dced for 5ish min. Indi-Focus + Geo-Languor and didn't have a single resist out of 2 gravs and 3 binds while he logged back in. Still get resists occasionally (maybe 60-70%ish land rate) with just Indi-Focus. Stymie should at least be 100% land if the mob's not immune. <.<;

That's kinda the problem thought that he still got a resist with a 1hr ability that SE touts as being awesome... but a level 15 blm ja with a 10 minute recast would've allowed him to land that spell naked

[Demonjustin]

Stymie, if they wanted to make it in any way truly useful, should've flat out ignored immunities and been impossible to resist in any sense. Instead it does nothing more than force the spell to land(within capped accuracy limits it seems, 1/20 casts still fail) and it can be resisted all the same rather than landing with full potency/duration. Take for instance earlier today, I was basically forced to use the(god awful) job ability to sleep Dakuwaqa after a group I was in failed to kill it and practically wiped at 16%. I used the ability, I slept Dakuwaqa with Sleep II, and yet thanks to how this ability is designed I got I think 45 seconds off of it, it honestly felt shorter, but I know it was not the full minute and a half for sure. The fact anything can resist this ever is stupid, the fact that it doesn't force maximum duration/potency is stupid, and the fact that it doesn't break immunities makes it even more pointless. The fact Elemental Seal is still better than this is just...

I hate Stymie. I really want my Enhancing Magic version of Soul Voice SE, please...

[dasva]

Heck just give us a full version of soul voice for rdm spells. If it's not horribly broken on a job with much stronger buffs and much stronger slow then it shouldn't be too powerful for rdm