New Weapon Skills

[Daemon]

Hey DEV TEAM,

I'm curious to ask if any NEW Weaponskills from SoA will be in the works. We have all this amazing new gear from SoA but as of now people without REM are rocking out level 96 Merit WS.

ToA brought us Mythic WS
Zilart brought us Relics
Abyssea brought us Emp/Merits

Would be nice to bring us up-to-date with the ilvl gear, WR, Delve, craft weapons we are getting.

Not that Merit Weapon skills are bad but so far SoA presents us with all these amazing items, at some point New Weaponskills would be great!

After all SoA is meant to be true End game content. Just waiting on you Matsui to surprise us with end game Weaponskills!

Anyone else Agree or Disagree?

[Xantavia]

I would have to disagree. If any new weaponskill isn't better than what currently exists, nobody will use it.

[Daemon]

I would have to disagree. If any new weaponskill isn't better than what currently exists, nobody will use it.

Yeah that's what I was asking for. Better weapon skills to accommodate the new ilvl equipment than be stricted to level 96 Weaponskills. =p

[Demon6324236]

There isn't a lot of room for improvement on WSs besides the ones which simply are bad due to easily fixable flaws that were intentionally designed into the WS itself. For instance, no merit WS is a crit WS, none of them so far as I know can crit, which sucks. Req is built with a -20% Attack penalty, yet, all of the jobs which primarily use swords are on the lower end of attack besides possibly BLU. There are random mods on some of them like AGI or INT, which are flat out not helpful for the WS.

If they made new WSs for every type of weapon, they would need to either have bonus effects which make them better, crit, or move above 100% mods. All of which sound unlikely to me, but I wouldn't object to new WSs either way.

[Damane]

i would rather have them even out existing WSs and make magical WS actually usefull now that they have fallen into total oblvion due to raise of base dmg of weapons. Like wildfire for example ¬.¬, hell even makeing other magical WS usefull would go a long way.

[OmnysValefor]

Demon pretty much nailed it. The ws's that are suck, or are handicapped, are done so deliberately.

I'm certain SE is aware that Requiescat is the only sword ws worth using right now and that most every DRK uses a GS rather than a scythe. Things, literally, are working as intended, even if we don't understand the reason.

Ether you add a ws in a category that noone uses, or it's good enough that noone uses anything else, there's no in-between.

[Kriegsgott]

ToA brought us Mythic WS
Zilart brought us Relics
Abyssea brought us Emp/Merits

CoP + WoTG + SoA didn so its equal again 3 Add ons with WS 3 without sounds balanced (Trololol)

anyways lemme throw in another idea yes?

I have Spharai and would like to use Final Heaven without it maybe SE should work on a Quest for Spharai user?
same with Vere plz?

thats what i'm worried about atm and not new WS to be honest !

[Demon6324236]

WoTG didn so its equal again 3 Add ons with WS 3 without sounds balanced (Trololol)Besides the sarcasm, that's actually not true. While we could not use WSs outside of Campaign, there were Campaign weapons which allowed us to use their assigned Weapon Skills. The function is exactly like that of a near completed Relic, where it works perfectly fine in Dynamis. The only difference is the fact we can not make them into fully functional weapons. So really they did add WSs in WotG, just not WSs we still use today really.


I have Spharai and would like to use Final Heaven without it maybe SE should work on a Quest for Spharai user?
same with Vere plz?They said the fall update is when they are updating RMEs, with a level 99RME you will be able to upgrade them, not sure to what level, or what stats, but it will be possible. Also, we will be able to learn Empyrean WSs, though the exact method is unknown, originally it was to be Coin weapons only, this may still be the case, very little detail has been given. However, this information you are talking about has been announced by SE recently.

[Stompa]

Give Dancers a B- in swords and let us have Requiescat. ^^

[Mirage]

Merit WSes weren't from abyssea, just sayin :p.

[FaeQueenCory]

There isn't a lot of room for improvement on WSs besides the ones which simply are bad due to easily fixable flaws that were intentionally designed into the WS itself. For instance, no merit WS is a crit WS, none of them so far as I know can crit, which sucks. Req is built with a -20% Attack penalty, yet, all of the jobs which primarily use swords are on the lower end of attack besides possibly BLU. There are random mods on some of them like AGI or INT, which are flat out not helpful for the WS.

If they made new WSs for every type of weapon, they would need to either have bonus effects which make them better, crit, or move above 100% mods. All of which sound unlikely to me, but I wouldn't object to new WSs either way.
I think the reason why the crit removal and all the negs on the merit WSs is because the idea is to Skill Chain.
So as for it working as intended... it's cause the game wants you to get massive damage via a SC instead of just poppin a WS off.

But that's more of the inherent design of the WS system.... not a flaw in it... just part of how it does things.

As to the topic of getting new WSs.... sure. why not? They'll be even more flashy than the merit ones... and those out-flashied the Mythic ones... so... yeah.
But then again... they might not be more flashy... cause the empy WSs don't out flash the Mythic...
So w/e.
Chances are they won't out-do the merited WSs in terms of sheer damage, but they'll probably be more along the lines of how Evisceration can be situationally better than a 5/5 Exenterator.

And given how they would like to unlock Empy WSs like Mythic WSs can be...
They'll probably have that as a feature for any new WSs too.

[Demon6324236]

I think the reason why the crit removal and all the negs on the merit WSs is because the idea is to Skill Chain.
So as for it working as intended... it's cause the game wants you to get massive damage via a SC instead of just poppin a WS off.This is highly unlikely for a few reasons. First of all being the fact that you would not make a super powerful 100% mod WS anyways if you didn't want the WS itself to be the cause of the damage spike. Secondly because the damage of the WS itself determines the damage of the skillchain, if I do a WS for 1k, my SC will do 1k too, however if I do a WS for 7k, it will do 7k, so in the end it would have to make my WS do more to make my SC do more. That is, unless I missed something.



In either case, I doubt they will tie any more WSs to weapons, they are trying to move past that design with RMEs already, and to just do it again seems like it would be very hypocritical at this point.

[nyheen]

i think having new weapons skill at this point would be kinda a bad idea atm. what should be happening is a way to bring back the older WS from like R/M/E. having it so you can unlock the WS from the weapon like example.
90+ Mandau lets you unlock the quest for Mercy Stroke.
99 let you do a quest to merge your mandau to any of the SoA weapons of your pick to get the Additional effects
it would be a nice way people back into the older stuff so it will be a win/win for all, because at this point it too much power going into just SoA and it kill off every other area.
the same idea can also good to the AFs, merge all your AF into a super epic AF. this will be the key to bring back stuff

[Demon6324236]

Relic WSs being unlockable is not something they have confirmed or denied, Empyrean WSs are going to be unlockable as of the fall update.

[Kriegsgott]

This is highly unlikely for a few reasons. First of all being the fact that you would not make a super powerful 100% mod WS anyways if you didn't want the WS itself to be the cause of the damage spike. Secondly because the damage of the WS itself determines the damage of the skillchain, if I do a WS for 1k, my SC will do 1k too, however if I do a WS for 7k, it will do 7k, so in the end it would have to make my WS do more to make my SC do more. That is, unless I missed something.

thats not true you should SC more often sometimes a SC does more dmg as your lets say 7k ws dmg

[Vivivivi]

Throwing weaponskills to make ninja relevant again maybe?

[Creelo]

Despite some of the Merit WSs' mods/attributes being disappointing (Att penalties, Agi/Int mods), they're all still quite fantastic. The animations are absolutely stunning and beautiful too. I was floored when SE released the WS showcase video, and the fact that there are race/gender specific animations tied in with these WSs as well was a great touch. Basically, I would love to see this again.

I've also thought it would be really nice if SE would open up Campaign WSs for use outside of Campaign, probably through some method of unlocking with quests associated with the NPCs that use these WSs. There's a ton of potential content here that could possibly reinvigorate Campaign content in the process of acquiring these WSs. Some of these WSs may not be as strong as the merit ones or lvl 99 RMEs (and I'm sure there'd probably have to be some adjustments to them in general for outside use); however, most of them seem to be AoE, which could definitely give us some better utility for fighting hordes of enemies. Not to mention, they look really cool.

I've posted some youtube video links that showcase most of the Campaign WSs I'm referring to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tF_4_xq3vI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkMpyPS4wUs

[Demon6324236]

thats not true you should SC more often sometimes a SC does more dmg as your lets say 7k ws dmgI Skillchain on my WAR quite often in Delve, I made a priority of knowing every single WS I could Skillchain with that is commonly used in Delve for that reason. I never see my Skillchain on WAR exceed the DMG of the second WS in the chain. I never remember Skillchains, without a form of Skillchain Bonus, doing more DMG than that of the WS that triggered the Skillchain itself.

[pretre]

id like to see them nerf the merited great katana ws as its kinda made sam a job for people who cant be botherd to put much work in but still get really high ws numbers, but that's just my opinion. ik just remember the days when sam like all other dds required work to get good numbers out of it

[Demon6324236]

SAM can be bandwaggoned, but so can MNK, WAR, and DRK.

Go get 5/5 Skirmish, go get a Skirmish+1 or Delve wep, tada, your a decent DD so far as gear goes for the most part.

[Kriegsgott]

I Skillchain on my WAR quite often in Delve, I made a priority of knowing every single WS I could Skillchain with that is commonly used in Delve for that reason. I never see my Skillchain on WAR exceed the DMG of the second WS in the chain. I never remember Skillchains, without a form of Skillchain Bonus, doing more DMG than that of the WS that triggered the Skillchain itself.

yep prev SoA just did the SC with a THF Exe + Shijin
http://s1.directupload.net/images/130902/bfddgerf.png
I'm going to make SS of my future SC's as soon i see this happens again

[Creelo]

Mnk gets Skillchain Bonus II JT.

4495 x 1.12 = 5034~

[Demon6324236]

Mnk gets Skillchain Bonus II JT.

4495 x 1.12 = 5034~Beat me to it, thank you.

Easiest way to check what jobs have this trait is here (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Skillchain_Bonus). If you intend to prove me wrong on how Skillchains work, please make sure that the job and gear you are Skillchaining on/with are not giving you this effect.

Like I said, so far as Skillchains are right now, the WS that closes the SC matches the DMG of the SC, for that reason, unless they made special WSs which work with SCs in a special way, WSs will always be about their own spike DMG, and SCs will be a bonus.

[Kriegsgott]

Mnk gets Skillchain Bonus II JT.

4495 x 1.12 = 5034~

this makes sense now ty :D


Beat me to it, thank you.

Easiest way to check what jobs have this trait is here (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Skillchain_Bonus). If you intend to prove me wrong on how Skillchains work, please make sure that the job and gear you are Skillchaining on/with are not giving you this effect.

Like I said, so far as Skillchains are right now, the WS that closes the SC matches the DMG of the SC, for that reason, unless they made special WSs which work with SCs in a special way, WSs will always be about their own spike DMG, and SCs will be a bonus.

i guess i was wrong this time i didn know about this JT before must be happend while i had a break from FFXI to much focus on Catchup & stuff

[OmnysValefor]

Besides a random fight or two, skillchains haven't been "the idea" in years.

[Doombringer]

There isn't a lot of room for improvement on WSs besides the ones which simply are bad due to easily fixable flaws that were intentionally designed into the WS itself. For instance, no merit WS is a crit WS, none of them so far as I know can crit, which sucks. Req is built with a -20% Attack penalty, yet, all of the jobs which primarily use swords are on the lower end of attack besides possibly BLU. There are random mods on some of them like AGI or INT, which are flat out not helpful for the WS.

If they made new WSs for every type of weapon, they would need to either have bonus effects which make them better, crit, or move above 100% mods. All of which sound unlikely to me, but I wouldn't object to new WSs either way.

FTP exists, so there's really no upper bound on how powerful SE can make a weaponskill.


whether or not they SHOULD is another discussion, but there is just about infinite room for improvement if you wanna talk theory.

[Damane]

thats not true you should SC more often sometimes a SC does more dmg as your lets say 7k ws dmg

ecxept that SCs are getting now resisted when you fight anything remotly hard since the m.acc of the SCs didnt get bumped up with ilvl weapons! duh.

[Rekin]

Beat me to it, thank you.

Easiest way to check what jobs have this trait is here (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Skillchain_Bonus). If you intend to prove me wrong on how Skillchains work, please make sure that the job and gear you are Skillchaining on/with are not giving you this effect.

Like I said, so far as Skillchains are right now, the WS that closes the SC matches the DMG of the SC, for that reason, unless they made special WSs which work with SCs in a special way, WSs will always be about their own spike DMG, and SCs will be a bonus.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought SC gained increased dmg if it was done in steps beyond 2 wses.

[Demon6324236]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought SC gained increased dmg if it was done in steps beyond 2 wses.That I don't know much about, I cant solo multiple SCs on WAR really without wasting my Sekkanoki and mobs don't have enough HP for that to be effective. Never paid attention to SC DMG till I played WAR cause RDM was never good to do it. So in the end, no idea, if so then awesome, but with TP gear now days, no matter how WSs are meant to be designed, it would be a damage loss probably to hold TP for multiple back to back Skillchains since I believe you can only do 3 back to back at a time.

[Daemon]

Merit WSes weren't from abyssea, just sayin :p.

Well yeah, Merit WS are from Merits... Hence why they call it Merit WS. But it was implemented and adjusted during Abyssea Era :p

I just didnt want to write a novel in my OP for the benefit of everyone just glancing at the overall topic.

[noirin]

as long as i get a new axe ws that stays as far away from cloudsplitter as possible,i can't imagine why new ones wouldn't be a good idea.outside of it consuming time and resources to create.

[Kriegsgott]

ecxept that SCs are getting now resisted when you fight anything remotly hard since the m.acc of the SCs didnt get bumped up with ilvl weapons! duh.

i was talking about increased dmg didn even noticed one SC below my WS dmg tbh i guess you ar talking about Delve stuff ? i'm going to keep a eye on it next week is delve-week so i can experience it a bit :D

[Rekin]

That I don't know much about, I cant solo multiple SCs on WAR really without wasting my Sekkanoki and mobs don't have enough HP for that to be effective. Never paid attention to SC DMG till I played WAR cause RDM was never good to do it. So in the end, no idea, if so then awesome, but with TP gear now days, no matter how WSs are meant to be designed, it would be a damage loss probably to hold TP for multiple back to back Skillchains since I believe you can only do 3 back to back at a time.

Okay so according to BG the dmg bonus is related directly to the number of wses in the chain and the CS end result. the highest potential is a level 3 SC with 6 wses in it's chain for 2.25 multiplier where as two wses that make a level 3 is just 1.0.

However we are in agreement the dmg from SCes is generally ignorable as potential dmg that is lost doesn't justify doing SCes in today's meta.

[Stompa]

Besides a random fight or two, skillchains haven't been "the idea" in years.

People have been using Light SC to deal catastrophic damage to the caturei mega-boss in WOE top flux. That mob is a pain unless you light SC it, then it just crumbles almost instantly.
:cool:

[Mirage]

Really? I did not know that. Maybe because most of the time when I try that flux, everyone dies really soon and it turns into a zombie-fest.