Magian iLv Trials

[FaeQueenCory]

ok. so hear me out on this.... cause it's been rumbling around in my head for the past week or so... and thought I might as well open a discussion about it to see how everyone/anyone else thinks about it and maybe catch the devs attention if it's a popular idea.

This kinda started out from thinking about the proposed updates to the REMs and then the RDM Atinian Staff discussion kinda cemented everything in my mind.

The proposal is thus:
Instead of just making the 90/95/99/99-2 REMs be tiered with Delve/Skirmish2 weapons... what if they also were to implement further adjustments via more trials?

Let me further explain what I mean, because I'm applying this to more than just REM trials:

We already have the REMs with 2 versions that are lv99.
The base 99.
And then the 99-2 with the afterglow effect.

Now the boost to Mythics will put them basically equal to Delve weapons, and then Relic and Empys a smidge below that.
And this is talking about the 99/99-2 versions.
But what if instead of just making them equally tiered.... it also made the 99-2 versions have an iLv of, say, 103 or 106? or whathaveyou?

With the influx of the skirmish2 weapons (iLv113), the Delve weapons (bluh bluh bluh can't remember the iLv... 110? but the base damage is slightly higher than skirmish2 and that's 113... so... 114? 116?) and the Delve-crafted weapons (iLv117/8)...

What if there were further trials of the magian to raise the 99-2 gear to higher and higher iLv???

This could then apply to other magian weapons too... and even open the door for how the intended "bring AF1 gear to the level of RUN and GEO" will happen... Though I hope for an AF4 rather than an AF1+2. Not that I'd complain for the 109 gear.

Now for example that would show how this affects nonREM magian weapons, Atinian Staff out performs the magic affinity elemental damage staves, as it should, Atinian IS 18-19 levels above them.
But what if they could be increased in further stages, not to out do Atinian, but to offer a working alternative... or even just something worth using until you have the better/prefered weapon?

And let's say the stages of the trials go as such:
99->103->106->113->120 (or just have them stop at 113... but you know iLv120 is gonna happen. I'm just thinking ahead.)

And for like the magic affinity elemental dmg staves, it could look like this:

99: Xaff: Macc+1 Mdmg+6 casting time-14%
103: Xaff: Macc+1 Mdmg+7 casting time-16%
106: Xaff: Macc+1 Mdmg+8 casting time-20%
113: Xaff: Macc+2 Mdmg+9 casting time-26%
120: Xaff: Macc+3 Mdmg+10 casting time-50%

Now, this is just a rough outline of what I've been thinking about.
But just think of the implications for how iLv magian trials can affect REMs... at 99, most only give a huge buff of one stat... if any at all. And by implementing iLvs for the REMs... you could see not only crazy high stat buffs (like +50VIT and that alone) or multiple very high stat buffs (like +20STR +20DEX +20VIT +20AGI)...

Obviously I feel this is a vein to be looked in to.... Because it gives REM owners the benefits of iLv weapons (you're welcom BST and DRGs!) as well as broadening diversity and merges the old system with Matsui's newer ideas. (Of which, I am overall a big fan of.)

So what does every/anyone else think about this?

And before anyone jumps on my 120 suggestion as a thing... obviously I am thinking faaaaarrrr into the future. Like after all of Adoulin is polished and implemented... and there's that "Delve2" that I think was mentioned with the 120 rewards.
So basically: Delve2 goes gold giving access to 120 gear/weapons, and then a few months/updates later after the bugs are worked out... the iLv120 magian trials are implemented.

And as to what the trials would be.... tie it further to Adoulin, to reinforce the idea that Adoulin is the post-99 content. Or whatever have you... that's for the dev's to hammer out. ;p

And I wasn't sure if this belongs in general, or if it should have been posted in items... the mods will move it if it needs to be... ^^;;

[Xantavia]

I would love if we could level up our magian weapons further. I never had R/M/E so made do with some str weapons or other things to suit my playstyle. No need to be the best of the best, but it would be nice to have a decent alternative to NM or delve weapons.

[Daemon]

Ilvl Magian trials would give people an easier option to obtain weapons to get inside delve groups. But give people reasons not to do REM anymore because the alternative requires less effort.

At least that's how I see it.

Then again you are asking the DEV TEAM to use the SoA system on REM when Relics are from the past. Emp are Abyssea related and Mythics are ToA.

Meaning it doesn't make sense to go back and change the game based on SoA's system.

I think Magian trials were good before SoA, but for anyone with more than 10 jobs level 99 doing SoA would argue that inventory would be the issue.

We don't need more items to add on top of what we have in our gear sets, we need items that can prevent us from adding more to our gear sets overflooding our inventory.

That's why several end game players suggested more beneficial stats on 1 item than us carrying 1 item to do 1 task.

[Umichi]

It's not hard to get an entry Ilvl weapon from audolin... lets have the team finish this expansions content and no more gear s obtainable before we ask for more magian trials? at least then they can make an entire tree to build upon from I lvl 100-120

[Damane]

no more trials for gods sake ._.

[Tickmeoff]

No thanks, magian trials are poorly designed gil/time sinks and we should all be glad they are dead.

[darkhorror]

I actually would like to see the trials expanded, I enjoyed them because it gave you solo options for when you aren't doing events. It also gave the ability to choose specific things you wanted out of the weapons some of them interesting like OA2-4, DA, PDT-,...

[Mirage]

I'm actually pretty for this. I don't think they should get as good as the RME and very best SoA weapons, however, but extending ToM to reach iLv 115-117 would be fine. it could be done in increments of 4-6 levels per trial, I guess, or perhaps have an exponential difficulty curve, where the first trial got it all the way from 99-108 without taking an extreme amount of grinding, then the next to 112, then 115, and finally 117.

I know that not everyone is interested in doing more ToM, but different options for different players is always a good thing, I think. The more ways there are of getting stronger, the more players will have things to do, the more people will keep subscribing.

[Umichi]

How about the new ws be the WoE and Relic WS usage outside of the weapon? mythic allows this through a task. so does WoE and relic!

[detlef]

It would be nice if they continued ToM into Adoulin. Things like evasion daggers, strength swords, and especially nuking/enfeebling staves. It doesn't seem like it would be difficult to make add competitive weapons and such for people who wish to grind them out.

[Demon6324236]

I cant say I want this all to badly, but at the same time, I cant say that I would object either. Things like PDT swords and axes or EVA katana's/daggers or any attack weapon I made, would be nice to take forward with me. At the same time, do I feel like doing any more trials? No.

[FaeQueenCory]

Ilvl Magian trials would give people an easier option to obtain weapons to get inside delve groups. But give people reasons not to do REM anymore because the alternative requires less effort.
Um....
WHAT?
Please explain to me exactly how adding more trials to increase REMs into higher levels... will make ppl not want to make them?

I had no idea people just abandoned their 90 REMs because they released a trial that made them 99... Who knew that that was ever a thing!


Then again you are asking the DEV TEAM to use the SoA system on REM when Relics are from the past. Emp are Abyssea related and Mythics are ToA.

Meaning it doesn't make sense to go back and change the game based on SoA's system.
Whatthewhat??
What is this system you seem to believe exists?
Do you mean iLvs?
0_0
Cause... that's no more a system than the level cap being raised to 99 was a system...
It affects the game everywhere... it's not like you can only be 99 in Abyssea, y'know.


I think Magian trials were good before SoA, but for anyone with more than 10 jobs level 99 doing SoA would argue that inventory would be the issue.

We don't need more items to add on top of what we have in our gear sets, we need items that can prevent us from adding more to our gear sets overflooding our inventory.

That's why several end game players suggested more beneficial stats on 1 item than us carrying 1 item to do 1 task.
0__0
Weapons... aren't used for... gear sets... And with few exceptions (mainly stat-sticks), weapons are pretty much just a 1-per-job type deal...
And furthermore, seeing as how magian trials don't add anything to your inventory....
They wouldn't have any bearing on inventory clog any more or less than what is currently.

Unless I suppose you like to macro-gear-swap your weapons for your WSs...
Then I suppose you'll be carring around a lot of extra swords.

Mages will always carry around multiple staves... so that's kinda moot unless there's a staff/club with all 9999s.
Magery is all about situationally better stat-sticks.
And being a good mage is knowing about what to use and when.


It's not hard to get an entry Ilvl weapon from audolin... lets have the team finish this expansions content and no more gear s obtainable before we ask for more magian trials? at least then they can make an entire tree to build upon from I lvl 100-120
Of course!!
I only propose this as a far-flung idea (hence my reference of iLv120).
Adoulin needs to not only be finished but also polished off before any magian trials would be added.
The bold of your quote is basically what I'm proposing boiled down to a single sentence.


I'm actually pretty for this. I don't think they should get as good as the RME and very best SoA weapons, however, but extending ToM to reach iLv 115-117 would be fine. it could be done in increments of 4-6 levels per trial, I guess, or perhaps have an exponential difficulty curve, where the first trial got it all the way from 99-108 without taking an extreme amount of grinding, then the next to 112, then 115, and finally 117.
Nonono! Of course not as good as the DREMs!
Never that good.... barring the exception of the staves because for them the stats matter more than the dmg/delay... but the dmg delay would never be anywhere near the DREMs... ever.
And the REMs would be boosted along with all the bluh weapons too... I mean... they ARE part of the magian trial log afterall.


I know that not everyone is interested in doing more ToM, but different options for different players is always a good thing, I think. The more ways there are of getting stronger, the more players will have things to do, the more people will keep subscribing.
And increasing diversity is exactly why I was proposing this. ^^


I cant say I want this all to badly, but at the same time, I cant say that I would object either. Things like PDT swords and axes or EVA katana's/daggers or any attack weapon I made, would be nice to take forward with me. At the same time, do I feel like doing any more trials? No.
EXACTLY... and then it also opens up new playstyles too... Especially for the likes of BST. (super -PDT axe main-hand AND getting lv118 pets anyone?:cool:)

[Aeonk]

No thanks, magian trials are poorly designed gil/time sinks and we should all be glad they are dead.

And yet they were most definately the lesser of 2 evils.

There's a reason magian trials replaced the Evolith system: because random augments are a terrible idea. Too bad they went with it again for Skirmish 2 armor, but my guess is that was to buy some time to develop w/e else they have on their plate while we try to upgrade those gloves for the 100th time.

[Kimjongil]

How about the new ws be the WoE and Relic WS usage outside of the weapon? mythic allows this through a task. so does WoE and relic!

They never said relic weapon skills will be able to be used outside of the relic WS. Only empys due to the WoE path.

[Umichi]

They never said relic weapon skills will be able to be used outside of the relic WS. Only empys due to the WoE path.

sorry I should clarify I was merely stating that relic and WoE relic WS should both be unlockable. and I meant so should* on the final sentence.

[Daemon]

Um....
WHAT?
Please explain to me exactly how adding more trials to increase REMs into higher levels... will make ppl not want to make them?

I had no idea people just abandoned their 90 REMs because they released a trial that made them 99... Who knew that that was ever a thing!


Whatthewhat??
What is this system you seem to believe exists?
Do you mean iLvs?
0_0
Cause... that's no more a system than the level cap being raised to 99 was a system...
It affects the game everywhere... it's not like you can only be 99 in Abyssea, y'know.


0__0
Weapons... aren't used for... gear sets... And with few exceptions (mainly stat-sticks), weapons are pretty much just a 1-per-job type deal...
And furthermore, seeing as how magian trials don't add anything to your inventory....
They wouldn't have any bearing on inventory clog any more or less than what is currently.

Unless I suppose you like to macro-gear-swap your weapons for your WSs...
Then I suppose you'll be carring around a lot of extra swords.

Mages will always carry around multiple staves... so that's kinda moot unless there's a staff/club with all 9999s.
Magery is all about situationally better stat-sticks.
And being a good mage is knowing about what to use and when.


Of course!!
I only propose this as a far-flung idea (hence my reference of iLv120).
Adoulin needs to not only be finished but also polished off before any magian trials would be added.
The bold of your quote is basically what I'm proposing boiled down to a single sentence.


Nonono! Of course not as good as the DREMs!
Never that good.... barring the exception of the staves because for them the stats matter more than the dmg/delay... but the dmg delay would never be anywhere near the DREMs... ever.
And the REMs would be boosted along with all the bluh weapons too... I mean... they ARE part of the magian trial log afterall.


And increasing diversity is exactly why I was proposing this. ^^


EXACTLY... and then it also opens up new playstyles too... Especially for the likes of BST. (super -PDT axe main-hand AND getting lv118 pets anyone?:cool:)

First off. Several players already have Delve weapons etc. if Magian trials are increased, for whose benefit would this be for? Players without Delve weapons? Or people who have Delve weapons wanting something else as an option?

How would SE balance this so people could choose between Delve, WR, Skirmish over Magian?

In the case of REM the complaint is that these take too long and cost way too much gil. And as people spend time in this moment of the game, the gap becomes big because while non REM are wasting time doing REM trials, they are also wasting valuable time that could be spent catching up with those doing SoA.

By the time players do finish REM, end game players will probably be further apart in power.

In order to speed things up Magian trials would have to be faster to avoid this. Which would give reasons to skip REM and opt to Magian trials instead.

People these days don't care about REM Weaponskills. Why care about WS that are either low in damage compared to Merit WS used with today's gear or limited to only using WS with Relics and Emp?

It doesn't make sense to limit your power to using these WS on low DMG weapons that have become irrelevant.

Mages don't do WS trials for combat purposes. Magian trials are done for enhancing spells or enhancements such as Cure Potency.

Then again now Delve gears such as Bokwus Gloves, WR weapons like Tomaxchi and new Skirmish gears and stats like 160-180+ magic accuracy give today's players even more reasons to disregard all Magian trials.

Right now many players already disregard REM because if WR and Delve plus new AH crafted Weapons.

At this point even non REM players still have option to pass all of this by fresh out of Abby as a level 99 by playing a support job, earn Bayld and buy Bayld gear and play Delve without the need of AF3 or any other older content gear.

Bayld gear is way faster than hunting seals, +2s upgrading AF3.

It's not as gimp anymore being that extra stats were added to Bayld gears a few updates ago. Better than showing up in 99 AH gear and could allow anyone to wing it on AF3. And because anyone can save up 4-5 mil+ to buy NQ weapons in AH that are more powerful than Delve rank weapons or REM. it's pointless. I mean who would spend 200 mil+ to do a relic?

Join delve groups with end game players to earn Kis, earn Plasm and THEN start focusing on the main job of their choice.

Or

Spend a few weeks farming enough to buy an NQ Delve crafted weapons. For those who don't want to spend time farming Gil, playing a support can most likely get people playing Delve right away.

Because SoA has become fast pace in progression. This is the reason people don't want to go back and waste time obtaining gear that has become irrelevant.

Also now as DEVs continue to add more items and since word has been mentioned about REM upgrades and AF or JSE armors, upgrades are aiming to a benefit to players who have already dedicated massive amounts of time earning such items disappointed that the hard earned effort has become a waste of time.

Unlocking Relic and Emp WS I believe was mentioned which EMP trials can be done faster doing WoE path but for relic WS it will boil down to this. Do I want to go back and do such an expensive time consuming quest to unlock a WS if the DMG and effect doesn't outweigh merits? Then again if EMP WS is good? Why waste time doing Relic quest when its faster to unlock a Emp WS instead.

Until Devs implement upgrades and uodate to REM... It's something to think about. And adding ilvl Magians will only boil down to this. Is it going to kill REM even further? Add on to the gear sets that jobs like Mage classes use? Is it going to increase inventory crisis? Is it worth the amount of time to do these quests over the current content?
Will Magian trials be lower than SoA gear, on par or surpass? If its below the level of SoA gear who will waste time doing it over SoA items? If its on par, why waste time doing it if people already have Delve gear now. If it surpasses who will do SoA if Magians give better stats?


That's why several players might disagree.

[Daemon]

I could level to 99 in less than 8 hours,
skill up magic and combat enough to participate in events in 2-3 days
earn bayld and buy orvail set,
save up 4.5mil gil for atinian staff and be good to go in SoA.


That's how fast and easy FFXI has become.

And then wait for NEW JSE AF to be implemented while participating in WR and delve collecting gears in order to stay in line with end game players.

Then go back to older content and collect AF, Relic items or single piece items to build my sets.

If I started a new account.

Which is sad when I see people asking to have it easier. It's because people ask to make it easier we have the game in its current state.

Then people wonder why the heck is the game like this now.

Unless if its the intention to purposely setup the game for failure to kill off 11.



Convenience destroys the game.

Some people wonder why jobs allow workers to sit all day earn massive salaries while sitting under the A/C drinking Starbucks coffee, have their little mini fridge by their desk posting on Facebook eating Dunken donuts.

U know there's people out there that have it like this. Don't lie.

[Umichi]

I could level to 99 in less than 8 hours,
skill up magic and combat enough to participate in events in 2-3 days
earn bayld and buy orvail set,
save up 4.5mil gil for atinian staff and be good to go in SoA.

That's how fast and easy FFXI has become.

And then wait for NEW JSE AF to be implemented while participating in WR and delve collecting gears in order to stay in line with end game players.

Then go back to older content and collect AF, Relic items or single piece items to build my sets.

If I started a new account.

Which is sad when I see people asking to have it easier. It's because people ask to make it easier we have the game in its current state.

Then people wonder why the heck is the game like this now.

Unless if its the intention to purposely setup the game for failure to kill off 11.



Convenience destroys the game.

Some people wonder why jobs allow workers to sit all day earn massive salaries while sitting under the A/C drinking Starbucks coffee, have their little mini fridge by their desk posting on Facebook eating Dunken donuts.

U know there's people out there that have it like this. Don't lie.

because what you can do in less than a week someone else new to the game can do that too right? yes lets see them pull 4.5 mill out of their arse. comparing a new char you make to someone who is new is quite a difference... especially since you tout to being on this game since the begining, you clearly have a straight edge tactical advantage to someone with no connections and no knowledge of the game.

[nyheen]

I could level to 99 in less than 8 hours,
skill up magic and combat enough to participate in events in 2-3 days
earn bayld and buy orvail set,
save up 4.5mil gil for atinian staff and be good to go in SoA.


That's how fast and easy FFXI has become.

And then wait for NEW JSE AF to be implemented while participating in WR and delve collecting gears in order to stay in line with end game players.

Then go back to older content and collect AF, Relic items or single piece items to build my sets.

If I started a new account.

Which is sad when I see people asking to have it easier. It's because people ask to make it easier we have the game in its current state.

Then people wonder why the heck is the game like this now.

Unless if its the intention to purposely setup the game for failure to kill off 11.



Convenience destroys the game.

Some people wonder why jobs allow workers to sit all day earn massive salaries while sitting under the A/C drinking Starbucks coffee, have their little mini fridge by their desk posting on Facebook eating Dunken donuts.

U know there's people out there that have it like this. Don't lie.

this!. nail it right on the spot. i been called this out and slowly saw it happening around when abyssea first came out.
only bad thing abyssea did was kill the low lvl pts. (you all know the reason why)
SoA kill off every endgame event. and it seems like skimish is the only endgame that happening, delve seems to be dying since skimish is way too crazy easy to get the best gear/weapon.

but this is what YOU people wanted, everything to be super easy/Convenience. well this what will happen

[Daemon]

because what you can do in less than a week someone else new to the game can do that too right? yes lets see them pull 4.5 mill out of their arse. comparing a new char you make to someone who is new is quite a difference... especially since you tout to being on this game since the begining, you clearly have a straight edge tactical advantage to someone with no connections and no knowledge of the game.

Uhhhg yeah they actually could. 4.5 mil is easy compared to how i was use to farmin on day 1. Spent several weeks and still couldn't even make close to half a mil.

Between limbus, Dyna, farming synthesis and crafting. One could earn 4.5 mil quickly. It's just people tend to be impatient and most don't know how to save.

Saving Gil is a skill.

[Daemon]

this!. nail it right on the spot. i been called this out and slowly saw it happening around when abyssea first came out.
only bad thing abyssea did was kill the low lvl pts. (you all know the reason why)
SoA kill off every endgame event. and it seems like skimish is the only endgame that happening, delve seems to be dying since skimish is way too crazy easy to get the best gear/weapon.

but this is what YOU people wanted, everything to be super easy/Convenience. well this what will happen

Because people don't understand or refuse to understand that adjustments in any game is like selling your soul to the devil.

Yeah it might be good but at the cost of making something bad. The greater the good for 1 side, the greater the bad for the other.

And that's how balance works no matter what anyone wants to believe.

That's why when I see an adjustment being made, I question what's the aftermath to follow it.