Regen (and Merit Point effect) Revamp for WHM

[Sofrid]

As a WHM that used Regen II/III extensively during the 75 cap years, it saddens me to see that there's really no reason for WHM to cast any of the Regen effects, period, because SCH can simply do it better.

If that is the case, let's get rid of the Cat 1 Regen Merit Point choice or replace it with something that would be worthwhile for WHM to even choose that.

SCH easily gets 58HP/tick Regen IV that lasts 1 min 48 sec (at Level 99, Light Arts, and Savant's Cap +2) while WHM can only get up to 44HP/tick that lasts at most 1 min 18 sec (and requires Marduk's Tiara +1, Cleric's Briault +2, Orison's Mitts +2, and 15 merit points). And that's not counting the fact that, if SCH uses Tabula Rasa, they get 70HP/tick for 2 min 21 sec.

I'm not asking for a lot, but simply make it so the difference between SCH and WHM's casting of this is not as big.

[Economizer]

I'm not asking for a lot, but simply make it so the difference between SCH and WHM's casting of this is not as big.

Scholar has things like Regen V, Perpetuance, Accession, and more stratagems then a WHM/SCH ever will have. White Mage has Orison Pantaloons +2 for their cure spells.

Your Regen spells will never be MP efficient compared to a Scholar's, and a Scholar's Regen spells aren't as MP efficient when compared to White Mage's cure spells.

Regen is among the weakest choices for merits in the category currently.

[Sofrid]

I'm not asking to give WHM Regen V, and I can see why SCH should get a better Regen than WHM.

I'm simply asking that, when the situation dictates, (i.e. when there's no main SCH), whm can still use Regen IV to a decent degree of effectiveness. Right now Regen IV offers WHM very little that even I, who like having Regen working when SCH isn't around, don't really want to cast it (and disregarding Strategems - I purposely didn't include them in my OP for a reason).

I'm asking for a smaller difference for spells that both classes get. I don't mind carrying different gear for Regen+, but I do think that it's hard to justify so when SCH's Regen IV is 70% better - both in Duration and HP/tick - compared to WHM at Lv 86 (when WHM gets Regen IV).

[Ophannus]

Give SCH Cure V and you can have your buffed Regen.

[SpankWustler]

I'd rather the merits be adjusted to work with the strengths of each job.

Just move Regen merits over to Scholar and replace those merits with something directly or indirectly related to Cure MP efficiency on White Mage such as Cure MP cost or Solace Stoneskin duration. White Mage merits that make Cures even more MP efficient would accomplish the same thing in 2013 that Regen merits did in 2007.

[Sofrid]

If we're along that path, then give RDM Cure V too. (And Paladin needs a different self-cure that has adjustable hate, as Cure V's hate is a set value.)


Just move Regen merits over to Scholar and replace those merits with something directly or indirectly related to Cure MP efficiency on White Mage such as Cure MP cost or Solace Stoneskin duration. White Mage merits that make Cures even more MP efficient would accomplish the same thing in 2013 that Regen merits did in 2007.

I don't recall them actually having changed the merit ability itself altogether for any job.

And even if they do, Cure MP efficiency will be tough to balance, because the Empy+2 pants already returns 5% of amount cured. Since WHM get the same full benefit from Light Arts, let's assume that we get 2% MP cost reduction and the usual 5 ranks. Take a WHM/SCH. With Light Arts, Cure is -20% MP cost (so Cure VI is 229 * 0.8 = 184 MP, Cure V down to 108 MP). Cure V already heals for 800+ easily (low-balling here, bear with me), so 40MP returned. The efficiency is 68MP for 800+ healed. Probably even more. Even if we make it 1% per rank (so -5% total), Cure V would still end up being 80-ish MP cost for 800+ healed + Solace Stoneskin. I just don't see this happening.

[Demon6324236]

Honestly if you think your Regen is bad, look at RDM, we only have Regen II, we get better duration on our self than other jobs cause of Composure and we can give a half decent duration Regen to someone else cause of Empyrean gear enhancing Composure the way it does, but really, our Regen is leagues behind WHM's. Regen has a lot of large gaps in that way.

RDM has the worst, only up to T2, no gear to specifically enhance the spell, no merits to specifically enhance the spell.
RUN is miles ahead, it has up to T4, not much gear to enhance it, but something, no merits to enhance it, but it also has low duration due to no gear/merits/JAs to really enhance it, and MP is to low on RUN for it to be viable to cast on multiple people, though those two things are more of a job flaw, than Regen itself.
WHM is quite a bit ahead of RUN, it has up to T4 just like RUN, but has both equipment and merits to enhance it.
SCH is just god of Regen, 1 piece of gear, no merits, but T5 and Light Arts are all it needs to be king of the Regen.

Each of these are miles ahead of the last, so to expect an adjustment to it, would basically mean going back & fixing up each job's Regen a little bit if you want to be fair about it.

Secondly, RDM doesn't need Cure V.

[Sofrid]

Honestly if you think your Regen is bad, look at RDM, we only have Regen II, we get better duration on our self than other jobs cause of Composure and we can give a half decent duration Regen to someone else cause of Empyrean gear enhancing Composure the way it does, but really, our Regen is leagues behind WHM's. Secondly, RDM doesn't need Cure V.

I know RDM sucks at Regen. (My second highest is 98 RDM atm so I know the pain.) I could complain about RDM here, but I think it'd be off-topic and off-forum, so I'll do that in RDM forum when I see fit.

But still, all I ask is something so that WHM - if Regen is no longer their best thing - to switch what it does (instead of +rank/tick).

[Raksha]

The cure and regen situation is fine as-is. Regen merits aren't that great, but there are lots of shit-tier merits in this game. If you don't believe me take a look at modus veritas merits.

[Demon6324236]

If your asking for merits be redone rather than some kind of changes to WHM Regen to make it actually good then by all means, I agree, however I also think many other jobs need it too, so rather than asking only for WHM to have its merits redone, I would ask that all jobs have their merits redone.

[Sofrid]

If your asking for merits be redone rather than some kind of changes to WHM Regen to make it actually good then by all means, I agree, however I also think many other jobs need it too, so rather than asking only for WHM to have its merits redone, I would ask that all jobs have their merits redone.

I agree with you - I also play RDM, and their Merit Group2 is a mess. (and I'm not even going to start the "fix Phalanx II" talk.)