To everyone that hates relic/mythic weapons, I like to know why

[Rambus]

yes, it means not equal. i don't see at all how whether or not relics and mythics are the best weapons affects the casual player.

so the casual player won't have the BEST weapon in the game. why do they care, if they're a casual player?

i like empyreans. but i certainly won't be sad if they are still powerful, but not the best weapons. why? they didn't actually take that much effort. to me, ideally relics and mythics will be sidegrades or close (for damage; for other jobs they can be very different), and empyreans will be a bit behind.

That's how it should be in my eyes, but a lot of people seem to disagree for some unknown reason.

Can someone answer this please? All the threads I seen it seems people that show anti relic/ mythic ingore this point.

How does having a hard to get weapon/ lot of time getting a weapon effect you?
Why can't there be weapons that do a bit more performace that take way longer to get then alts like emp weapons?

FFXI had other concepts like that like how yiget body was an alt to a rare brd jse body, the yiget body was not the best but it had an effect liek the jse did.

same how SE gave out new gear that was alts to heca gear and so on.

or are people anti relic/mythic doing so just to "troll"? i would really like to understand

Also please add relics for the newer jobs.

* can we please have civil convo, not trolls/hate posts? I do not mind disagreement posts you have every right to but please have a reasonable reason.

[Purpleeyes]

Because DNC doesn't have a relic /cry

[TearValerin]

The problem is, relic owners spend months making their weapon, only to be second best by weapons that take no time to get. Empyrean weapons can be made in a few days, relics can be made in a few months on good runs. That is entirely not fair. Very few relics can compete with empyreans, and it isn't cool that someone can be better than another person over night who worked for months for his weapon.

[Henihhi]

I believe they are just trolling. You bring up good examples how there were almost always items released for the "casual" player but how the harder to obtain items were slightly better for those that devoted more time and effort.

[Rambus]

Because DNC doesn't have a relic /cry

oh yeah, SE can there be relic type weapon for the new jobs?

[TearValerin]

oh yeah, SE can there be relic type weapon for the new jobs?

There already is, Twashtar, and Terpischore.

[Rambus]

There already is, Twashtar, and Terpischore.

I think the new jobs could have relic type weapons to strive for, i agree with that poster i changed the thread just for them XD

oh you cant change the main title, oh well ><


I believe they are just trolling. You bring up good examples how there were almost always items released for the "casual" player but how the harder to obtain items were slightly better for those that devoted more time and effort.

yeah I tried listing gear like that too

[RichardNixon]

The real problem is weapons like the relic bow and gun being way too good compared to every other weapon in the game

the bow and gun really need nerfing

[Snaplin]

My Relic club needs more mage stats!

[Rambus]

The real problem is weapons like the relic bow and gun being way too good compared to every other weapon in the game

the bow and gun really need nerfing

does that only applay outside abyssea? what about inside where the emp bow and gun is huge?

range attack formula are bad when you really get buffed from the people I talked to.

I do not mind such statments but can I request giving data on why?


My Relic club needs more mage stats!

Oh i agree with you, same with mythic staff (SCH) mythic staff (blm) mythic sword (rdm)
emp staff, and relic staff

[TearValerin]

The real problem is weapons like the empyrean bow and gun being way too good compared to every other weapon in the game

the bow and gun really need nerfing
Fixed that for you, Jishnu's and Wildfire blow Coronach and Namas out of the water.

[Malamasala]

I hate Nirvana because by it being -4 perp to all avatars, it locked SE out of the possibility to add any new -4 perp to all avatars staff for casuals. EVEN THOUGH it can be upgraded to more -perp, they are still stuck "in case someone doesn't want to upgrade it".

That is all my hating on relics/mythics. The short sightedness in design, and then all future items are blocked from you.

Should have been an all elements -perp staff on magians. But yea, I picked the wrong job if I wanted any quality items.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I don't hate the weapons ..

I hate the users...

Like i don't hate guns.. i hate murderers

I dont hate pencils.. i hate people who can't spell


I don't hate relics.. i hate people who think they are entitled to the best weapon in the game.. because they did some retarded long quest.

[RichardNixon]

Namas arrow is seriously overpowered, a no hate WS that crits? it is amazing.

[Auredant]

I don't hate the weapons ..

I hate the users...

Like i don't hate guns.. i hate murderers

I dont hate pencils.. i hate people who can't spell


I don't hate relics.. i hate people who think they are entitled to the best weapon in the game.. because they did some retarded long quest.
I think this is the general sentiment. While it may not be true of yourself there are many relic users who look down and troll those who don't have them. I think it's more annoyance at this behavior than jealousy. Some of the relic owners are some of the most helpful and friendly people in game i know. Unfortunately many others are elitist douchebags. this doesn't influence my personal opinion on relic weapons though, as i think they deserve to be at least comparable to their empyrean counterparts, but many are just happy to see the relic owners get taken down a notch.

[Vinc]

I don't hate the weapons ..

I hate the users...

Like i don't hate guns.. i hate murderers

I dont hate pencils.. i hate people who can't spell


I don't hate relics.. i hate people who think they are entitled to the best weapon in the game.. because they did some retarded long quest.

This post summarizes the feelings of many people reading your threads.

To the OP, there is too much self-entitlement in your posts to want you to get your way. The trials of the past were done for the level 75 weapon. Anything that comes from this point should ignore previous work and require extensive difficulty (read: not something you may purchase your way to) to obtain. If the 90 base is used as a starting point for the best weapon, it by no means should involve nerfing empyreans, nor should relic owners just be handed the best weapon in the game for no future work. It is just not how the game should operate.

TearValerin and Rambus, I say this with the utmost of sincerity and with your best interests in mind, do your fellow relic owners a favor and stop posting.

[Greatguardian]

@OP: Because the only people left who have Relics and not Empyreans tend to be the biggest whiners in the game. Emps are not that hard. If Amano being second best bothers someone, they can get a Masamune and still have both weapons for whatever content we get at 99.

Getting the best in 2007 doesn't earn you a free pass for the rest of the game's life. If you want to be the best, you have to keep working to stay the best.

[Michaeluk]

@OP: Because the only people left who have Relics and not Empyreans tend to be the biggest whiners in the game. Emps are not that hard. If Amano being second best bothers someone, they can get a Masamune and still have both weapons for whatever content we get at 99.

Getting the best in 2007 doesn't earn you a free pass for the rest of the game's life. If you want to be the best, you have to keep working to stay the best.

I don't think anyone with a relic expects a free ride to 99. I hope they do give us some really hard quest for the 99 versions myself. Obviously i hope the 99 versions are not a let down either.

[wish12oz]

The problem is, relic owners spend months making their weapon, only to be second best by weapons that take no time to get. Empyrean weapons can be made in a few days, relics can be made in a few months on good runs. That is entirely not fair. Very few relics can compete with empyreans, and it isn't cool that someone can be better than another person over night who worked for months for his weapon.

My problem with relics is two-fold.

First and foremost is this attitude the person I quoted has. The "ZOMG I spent forever upgrading this legitimately it should remain the best forever" attitude. You don't see the people who spent years acquiring Dalmaticas, adaberks, homam, ridill, heca gear, salvage gear, byakkos haidate, etc complaining that they got screwed. AF3 is better then that gear, and much easier to get. If those pieces are replaced, then good for the game, relics should be no different. Other games don't bother to let you continue to use old gear when new stuff is added and better. Relic owners should be happy they got magian trials to upgrade stuff at all and stfu about it.

Now, let me clear up my perspective of most relic holders, it might not be true for all servers, but on the 3 I have been on (I transferred once with some friends and got merged once), 95% of all the relics are owned by people who acquired them in a 'bad' fashion. They either fish botted gil while they slept and bought it, they RMTd gil to get it, or they made an LS and had said LS farm them gil/currency to get the relic. These are not people I give 2 craps about, and them getting hosed is perfectly fine with me. I fail to see how using any of these 3 methods that most people used to acquire relics makes them difficult to obtain, so people complaining about all the effort they put into it I see as liars or stupid.

[Greatguardian]

I don't think anyone with a relic expects a free ride to 99. I hope they do give us some really hard quest for the 99 versions myself. Obviously i hope the 99 versions are not a let down either.

Well yes, but you have a Twashtar so there :(. I'm referring to Rambus and a couple others who have made or posted in all these Relic threads, yet haven't bothered with a replacement Empyrean despite it being "easy".

I doubt the final products will be too much of a letdown for the stronger Relics. Weaker and mid-tier relics have always been fairly lackluster so not much has changed there anyways. Moving outside of Abyssea will allow more of the Relic WS to shine, as well, if they continue to add flat-% damage increases to them. I'm not sure anything can fix Catastrophe, but Guillotine is still a solid WS outside Abyssea anyways.

[Vold]

Can someone answer this please? All the threads I seen it seems people that show anti relic/ mythic ingore this point.

How does having a hard to get weapon/ lot of time getting a weapon effect you?
Why can't there be weapons that do a bit more performace that take way longer to get then alts like emp weapons?

FFXI had other concepts like that like how yiget body was an alt to a rare brd jse body, the yiget body was not the best but it had an effect liek the jse did.

same how SE gave out new gear that was alts to heca gear and so on.

or are people anti relic/mythic doing so just to "troll"? i would really like to understand

Also please add relics for the newer jobs.

* can we please have civil convo, not trolls/hate posts? I do not mind disagreement posts you have every right to but please have a reasonable reason.

I don't have a problem with the weapons. I have a problem with the people that act like they legitimately earned their relics. That act like they deserve better and are owed by SE to adjust the weapons to be #1 without question.

The players that legitimately earned their relics have earned their right to debate those weapons remaining #1. I'm not ill informed on the sacrifices one must make to obtain a relic legitimately. However, I could care less about anyone who wants to play the "my time matters more than yours" card. That pretty much fits everyone who didn't earn their relics legitimately by buying gil or having a LS fund it for them. Which is pretty much everyone that posts in favor of their relics being boosted because legitimate relic owners are so few and far between that I doubt any of them are even here on these forums, at least NA wise. But if they are here, good job on the accomplishment.

I'm aware some LSs have the system in place where a person must do blank amount of work and the LS will foot the bill for the rest of the way. I'm mixed on that but I guess ultimately if you at least earned your way to the point of getting help legitimately then you too deserve the right to debate for changes.

Overall I'm mixed on the weapons themselves. While I have a passionate view about how it all comes down to wasting your time on a video game and it doesn't matter what you do while playing it, I am not oblivious to the fact that time is precious in any form and players are owed something for playing this game with the assumption that it would never go past lv 75. We only have mere seconds to at best 130 years of life after we are born. It's not a lot of time and the last thing we want is to feel any of that time is being wasted. In that respect perhaps relics should be better than Empyreans hands down.

[Byrth]

Namas arrow is seriously overpowered, a no hate WS that crits? it is amazing.

Namas can't crit.


On another note:
Think it's worth writing a coherent thread explaining why and how the Mythic quests should be adjusted?

[Flunklesnarkin]

Namas can't crit.


On another note:
Think it's worth writing a coherent thread explaining why and how the Mythic quests should be adjusted?

Thats another thing lol.. relics should always be the best to relic holders.. even though mythics are more "difficult" to obtain.

They have 2 sets on logic on this.. relics should be better than empyreans because relics are "harder"

In reality none of them are difficult.. they just take a lot of leg work.

[Rambus]

Namas can't crit.


On another note:
Think it's worth writing a coherent thread explaining why and how the Mythic quests should be adjusted?

I have 2 sugesstions.

1. then need to cost less money or let the money be found easier ( money as in alex and money spent to enter content no one wants to do *einhrjar*

2. update the content so other people have a reason to do said content. This means let assault, salavge , and einhrjar appeal to level 90/99.

I would really like to try this to see if more mythics get into players hands, its very dispointing to see so little. The other issue is killing those ZNM ( i think? for the 80-90 trails) ZNM could also be updated to appeal to people that is 90/99

I would really love SE to update all this instance content because otherwise you might as well remove it from the game.

Why have all that data and space if it is not going to be used? ( poking fun at ps2 limitation)

as for the rest of the comments of running into people that rip people off with relics, that can happen to any kind of content. I have seen people do shady things in abyssea even. People would still MPK/ mob steal/ grief steal/ LS bank steal/ RMT gil for other things if relics did not exist. My point with saying this is that you cannot blame the content for people's actions.

[Vyvian]

With mythics though, there wasn't really any secret to the fact they'd do less damage, we had a number of the completed mythic stats long before anyone finished one. Mythics were about the utility, and in some cases it allowed a change to how you could play a job.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

The problem isn't the relics themselves, it's the individuals who believe that they should surpass empyrean. Which they should not. I don't have a problem with them being on par, but they should not be better. Old is old.
That's my two cents.(Don't bother asking me question in responce, I said what I came to say and wont be back in this thread. ^^)
~Regards.

[Purpleeyes]

There already is, Twashtar, and Terpischore.

I mean relic relic though, not mythic or emp.
I mean, it would really be nice for the new jobs that don't have a relic weapon to have one, or at the very least be able to use one that is currently in the game. Why do those jobs get three choices and others only have two?
I don't really care, but I think it would be a nice addition to the game.

[Rambus]

With mythics though, there wasn't really any secret to the fact they'd do less damage, we had a number of the completed mythic stats long before anyone finished one. Mythics were about the utility, and in some cases it allowed a change to how you could play a job.

some do not offer real utility..

NIN mythic could augment Innin and Yonin
RDM mythic needs mage stats on it so its more then a convert macro, since full DD would be emp
SCH and blm mythic need potency for nuking stats not MAB

what does thired eye effect do on sam mythic? could we maybe have seigen and hasso effects?

some mythics are really good for DD like drg mythic.

some have to relay on bad ws like COR and RNG mythics.


I mean relic relic though, not mythic or emp.
I mean, it would really be nice for the new jobs that don't have a relic weapon to have one, or at the very least be able to use one that is currently in the game. Why do those jobs get three choices and others only have two?
I don't really care, but I think it would be a nice addition to the game.

I know, i agree i tried to change the title for you XD

[Purpleeyes]

some do not offer real utility..

NIN mythic could augment Innin and Yonin
RDM mythic needs mage stats on it so its more then a convert macro, since full DD would be emp
SCH and blm mythic need potency for nuking stats not MAB

what does thired eye effect do on sam mythic? could we maybe have seigen and hasso effects?

some mythics are really good for DD like drg mythic.

some have to relay on bad ws like COR and RNG mythics.



I know, i agree i tried to change the title for you XD

Thanks.
I was actually going to start one before I went to bed but feel asleep.
Maybe later today though.

[Coops]

I spent years obtaining all the salvage gear the my jobs could use (few sets) only to see it all not replaced, but blown out of the water by AF3 stuff, so what did I do? I started gaining the much easier to get AF3 stuff to replace the salvage stuff.

Instead of complaining about outdated gear which will no doubt have its chance to shine again, start working on what's good, and easy to get for the now. That way you're covered no matter what the outcome is.

[Randwolf]

Can someone answer this please? All the threads I seen it seems people that show anti relic/ mythic ingore this point.

How does having a hard to get weapon/ lot of time getting a weapon effect you?
I think a lot of the venom against relics is that a significant amount of the population had someone get their relic while riding on their backs. They had the currency needs of relic upgraders control the Dynamis zone entries. Yes, no one made them go. But, many went begrudgingly because it was a required event and they didn't want to sacrifice everything else they worked for in the shell by having to leave for not attending Dynamis. Also, by 75, most gear from Dynamis is useless, with a few exceptions. So, the allure of that as an incentive was minimal. Even more-so now.

Anyway, while I don't think it makes people 'hate' relics, the association with those Dynamis runs as well as people running around acting like they did it on their own (evident in your quote), when it actually took a ton of people a lot of time helping upgraders get their weapons, makes them bitter about relics. It also doesn't help when the people who have partially completed their relics argue against the Dynamis changes because it will make it harder for them to complete it now, if they are using a shell to do so. It may not make logical sense but it explains the emotional side of the anti-relic feelings.

[Rambus]

I am not sure what you mean by "by 75" dyna came out after the 75 cap.

dyna was something to do, I would still do it if people wanted too becasue abyssea everything is luceroius.

It was something to do so I really do not understand where some people come off in acting like they where slaves. Like I said before even if relics did not exist I bet peopel would do it to get gear. If that was the case though you would have people that would get the one thing they wanted and leave, that would leave the event unstable.

people acted like that with any event though so i just dont know.
I am not sure why people would feel they where slaves and abused.

[Randwolf]

I am not sure what you mean by "by 75" dyna came out after the 75 cap.

dyna was something to do, I would still do it if people wanted too becasue abyssea everything is luceroius.

It was something to do so I really do not understand where some people come off in acting like they where slaves. Like I said before even if relics did not exist I bet peopel would do it to get gear. If that was the case though you would have people that would get the one thing they wanted and leave, that would leave the event unstable.

people acted like that with any event though so i just dont know.
I am not sure why people would feel they where slaves and abused.

You ignored points in my text:

1) Most Dynamis gear is weak at 75 compared to other options, even before the cap increase
2) Many people, I didn't say all, didn't like Dynamis but went because it was a required shell event (that will make you feel very unkindly to an event)
3) Not only was it required, the currency need often dictated the zone, not which gear people wanted
4) People who used their shell to get their relic but then act as though they solo'd it

You question was "why do people hate relic." I gave you the reasons I saw. You can argue the points, but I still saw what I stated. Arguing the point is not going to change what I saw nor the reasons I gave as to why there is a venomous feeling by some towards relic weapons: Some people have negative feelings about how people got their relics and that spills on to the relics themselves.

Forgot the 4th point you see in almost every thread by people who are complaining about the weapon that "they spent so much time getting," when we know many of those weapons were gotten by a ton of people spending a ton of time. I have not seen a relic owner say "my shell spent a ton of time helping me get this weapon." Not saying someone hasn't said it but I haven't seen it posted.

[Rambus]

You ignored points in my text:

1) Most Dynamis gear is weak at 75 compared to other options, even before the cap increase
2) Many people, I didn't say all, didn't like Dynamis but went because it was a required shell event (that will make you feel very unkindly to an event)
3) Not only was it required, the currency need often dictated the zone, not which gear people wanted
4) People who used their shell to get their relic but then act as though they solo'd it

You question was "why do people hate relic." I gave you the reasons I saw. You can argue the points, but I still saw what I stated. Arguing the point is not going to change what I saw nor the reasons I gave as to why there is a venomous feeling by some towards relic weapons: Some people have negative feelings about how people got their relics and that spills on to the relics themselves.

Forgot the 4th point you see in almost every thread by people who are complaining about the weapon that "they spent so much time getting," when we know many of those weapons were gotten by a ton of people spending a ton of time.

your 1. that is what I was questioning, I did not understand what you ment since 75 was out before dyna was.
To me that gear was always ment to be macros since most at release was subpar. back then though it was the only thing to do, was that, sky, or hnms.

2. There is a lot of required events back in the days, I do not see people attacking people that have riddli because they camp a NM that pops everyday that had 30 min windows and you had to stand there ( maybe HQ only drop it I dont remember, I never cared becasue I never cared for the weapon)

I am not auguring with you, I am just trying to understand because I never seen anyone talk to me like they were slaves in dyna ( till VERY recently because everyone is abyssea only)

[Randwolf]

2. There is a lot of required events back in the days, I do not see people attacking people that have riddli because they camp a NM that pops everyday that had 30 min windows and you had to stand there ( maybe HQ only drop it I dont remember, I never cared becasue I never cared for the weapon)
Actually, funny you bring that up. I was in a HNM shell that fell apart primarily because of the Ridill. Well, the Ridill and Abyssea.

We had a long line of people who wanted a Ridill. Many people had high triple digit points. If I remember correctly, Ridill would cost you 350 points. Since it never dropped, and people didn't want to drop in standing for Ridill by spending points, the points just kept accumulating. Anyway, when Abyssea came out, a lot of people looked at the gear and the OAT weapons and said "Why are we still camping Ridill?" By this point, the shell was only seriously camping Fafnir from the Kings. People would only log in for it and then log back out. People in line for the Ridill, myself included (I was second in line), just got fed up with all the focus on a weapon that really wasn't that great anymore to the exclusion of activities (primarily Abyssea) that not only gave better gear but also allowed more people to get gear, as opposed to the rare Ridill drop and E-Body. Also, just as you stated, people began to get really tired of how the HNM window worked.

Sorry, should bring the post back around. Most likely, with the advent of Abyssea, people would have still begrudgingly come to Fafnir if it meant they got Abyssea gear. And, I'm sure some of that same venom we see directed at relics would also be directed at Ridill by those who had to keep coming to Fafnir to maintain their Abyssea standing.

[Rambus]

Actually, funny you bring that up. I was in a HNM shell that fell apart primarily because of the Ridill. Well, the Ridill and Abyssea.

We had a long line of people who wanted a Ridill. Many people had high triple digit points. If I remember correctly, Ridill would cost you 350 points. Since it never dropped, and people didn't want to drop in standing for Ridill by spending points, the points just kept accumulating. Anyway, when Abyssea came out, a lot of people looked at the gear and the OAT weapons and said "Why are we still camping Ridill?" By this point, the shell was only seriously camping Fafnir from the Kings. People would only log in for it and then log back out. People in line for the Ridill, myself included (I was second in line), just got fed up with all the focus on a weapon that really wasn't that great anymore to the exclusion of activities (primarily Abyssea) that not only gave better gear but also allowed more people to get gear, as opposed to the rare Ridill drop and E-Body. Also, just as you stated, people began to get really tired of how the HNM window worked.

Ridill died with 2 H update, after that it was just an option for DRK zerg.

people still wanted that when abyssea came out? lol -.-

[Purpleeyes]

Ridill died with 2 H update, after that it was just an option for DRK zerg.

people still wanted that when abyssea came out? lol -.-

Probably more as a trophy or a toy or something, rather than something to use full time.

[Randwolf]

Ridill died with 2 H update, after that it was just an option for DRK zerg.

people still wanted that when abyssea came out? lol -.-
I think some people were obsessed because of how long they had been waiting and just couldn't walk away. We had gone 2-3 months without one dropping to our LS. Also, because of S/E's statement about old gear being upgradeable, they were counting on Ridill being one of those pieces.

[Rambus]

I think some people were obsessed because of how long they had been waiting and just couldn't walk away. We had gone 2-3 months without one dropping to our LS. Also, because of S/E's statement about old gear being upgradeable, they were counting on Ridill being one of those pieces.

It might be, who knows.

SE stated something about allowing bykko's pants being upgradable though syngery.

I would like to see other weapons to be upgradable like V-fork but thats just me

[Insaniac]

These threads...

#1 There is nothing wrong with a sense of entitlement if you are actually entitled to something. We earned a more difficult weapon to obtain when the game in general was just more difficult and EVERYONE, relic holder or not thought that those would always be the best weapons. None of us would have put in that work if we knew they would be trumped some day. The level cap sat at 75 for what.. 6 years? In what world would we expected to think there was any chance a better weapon would come out some day and it would be easier to get?

#2 The % of ill gotten relics is hugely exaggerated. It takes one jealous guy to start a rumor about a guy with a relic to completely destroy his rep. I lost half my friends when I got my relic because of one prick who decided to start a rumor that I sold half my currency and finished my relic still having 30+ mil. I finished with 1.3mil. The average casual player can't comprehend how someone could obtain a relic legitimately thus they bridge the gap in their head with the only thing that helps them understand it. Gil buying, Bank stealing, LS abusing, fish botting, ect. ect. Yes there are people with relics who are jerks but there are just as many people per capita without relics who are jerks. Just like with non-relic players the jerks tend to be the ones who draw attention to themselves causing a negative stereotype. It's really messed up to wish bad things on the entire community of relic holders because of your dealings with less than 1% of them. Get to know more of us and you might feel a little compassion instead of contempt.

[Randwolf]

These threads...

#1 There is nothing wrong with a sense of entitlement if you are actually entitled to something. We earned a more difficult weapon to obtain when the game in general was just more difficult and EVERYONE, relic holder or not thought that those would always be the best weapons. None of us would have put in that work if we knew they would be trumped some day. The level cap sat at 75 for what.. 6 years? In what world would we expected to think there was any chance a better weapon would come out some day and it would be easier to get?

#2 The % of ill gotten relics is hugely exaggerated. It takes one jealous guy to start a rumor about a guy with a relic to completely destroy his rep. I lost half my friends when I got my relic because of one prick who decided to start a rumor that I sold half my currency and finished my relic still having 30+ mil. I finished with 1.3mil. The average casual player can't comprehend how someone could obtain a relic legitimately thus they bridge the gap in their head with the only thing that helps them understand it. Gil buying, Bank stealing, LS abusing, fish botting, ect. ect. Yes there are people with relics who are jerks but there are just as many people per capita without relics who are jerks. Just like with non-relic players the jerks tend to be the ones who draw attention to themselves causing a negative stereotype. It's really messed up to wish bad things on the entire community of relic holders because of your dealings with less than 1% of them. Get to know more of us and you might feel a little compassion instead of contempt.
I agree with your post. I helped people get their relics. However, again, it's always "WE (the relic holders) Earned," and reinforces the feeling of animosity. The statement "My shell spent a ton of time and effort helping me get this weapon" still says how difficult the weapon is to get. But, I don't think I've seen one relic holding person on this site credit anyone else but themselves. While I'm sure some people didn't use a shell to lessen the cost of getting it and bought all the currency from their own farming. And, perhaps even paid others to do the fights in Dynamis. Not one person acknowledges the efforts of others. It just adds to the view that relic holders are simply about themselves.

So, out of curiosity, did you earn your relic without any assistance from a shell?

[Frost]

Surprise surprise... I'm going to post... lol...

1) I agree the bad apple spoils the bunch. There are a lot of threads on forums about people that screw thier shells over for a relic, steal the bank, etc. But last I checked, there's but a single thread cheering people on for getting thier Relic legitimately. It's a long thread, but one thread against many.

2) Someone posted here that there's not, and there are, people that read these forums that have a 100% legitimately earned relic. They just choose not to express that fact for fear of being lumped in with "Them" (with a capital T). As it might affect peoples' perceptions of the arguments they propose.

3) There's actually, amazingly, very few ways to do Dynamis, and even fewer ways that work. And I agree, it rare you ever hear/read someone refer to their relic as "The relic my shell got me". That's an exceptionally valid point.

4) You guys are generally right about the "Empyrean vs. Relic" debate. But the argument usually is misread form what I see. You hit the nail on the head with other things like Slavage gear vs. Empyrean vs. Abjuration gear. You're right, it was a kick in the teeth. It was like getting beat up really badly, but then when the beating was done, you realize that beating was not only the best massage you ever had, you walk away with a lollipop to boot.

In the case of Empyreans vs Relics, you need to look at timing...

And here's where I go off on one of my long winded posts:

At the time Relic holders in order to just keep up with easily attained Stat+X weapons needed to kill in upwards of like 3,500 mobs or whatever initially with a killshot from a relatively underpowered weaponskill. With the only known reward, that once they are done with the trials, it would only be a few damage more than the next best alternative.
Empyreans existed, but no mention of the weaponskills were made just yet, and they seemed out of reach for just a cool looking weapon.

Later hey added weapons that were just drops off mobs that offered close to the same stats as the relics and let people use the exclusive weaponskill associated with it. Meanwhile Relic holders had to kill 4,500 more monsters in the same fashion as before, just to be within 1 base damage as said [free] weapons.

A little later the first Empyreans started to finally surface. As did their weaponskills...

Historically SE made the effort to make sure any relic holder had access to any/all weaponskills for that weapon. Empyreans had something that relics did not.

Relic holders already knew SE hosed relic holders in their weaponskills. They were typically pretty bad, getting blown out of the water in most cases by a weaponskill attained at level 60 (still are in some cases). The weaponskills that were just introduced at skill~300 were laughable at best(at the time). The first reports of the Empyrean weaponskills were startling and overwhelmingly powerful to say the least.

All the while SE kept assuring relic holders that "an update was coming" for relics.
If the update was killing 9,000 mobs...

So now it was more a matter of a broken promise in the face of "They DID have the resources to make good on that promise. But they decided not to."

it's less a matter of a "sense of entitlement", so much as it's SE promised something that never came. SE said they were going to enhance Relics BEFORE the level cap, and never did. Then made Empyreans when they could have fixed relics first.

While at the same time gave relic holders trials that would best be described as punishment.

Would that seem fair to you if you were a relic holder?

5) The "Just make an Empyrean" alternative. Sure. Let's help the guy with a relic get an Empyrean... Do you have any idea how low on the list of "People to help get an Empyrean" a relic holder would(should) be? "Hey my Mandau only does 3-4k Eviscerations, how 'bout y'all help me kill a bunch of Glavoids and THAT GOD DAMN FLEA FROM HELL WHO SHALL REMAIN NAMELESS, how does that sound guys?"

Yeah.. exactly...

So yeah, after spending more money than any four people you know combined.
Going through linkshell politics for about two years, including whining, people stealing, ninja-lotting, whining, back-stabbing, leaving, coming back, whining, balancing zone variety, wiping, losing a glass, whining, people not passing and losing armor/coins, and whining...
Having to deal with knowing 25 or more people who are doing it for you, which is a lot of stress on your shoulders.
Running out of money and wondering how you're going to fund the next glass.
Being told "Yes we know they are under powered and we will fix them soon."
FOR TWO F'ING YEARS!!!

Then:
Having to kill 9,000 monsters with a weaponskill that's STILL underpowered.
While watching people get the Stat+x weapons stealing your mobs in massive alliances while you're trying to get a killshot. KNOWING thier weapons is probably better.

I can guarantee you, if I was a relic holder, every killshot would be like a reminder of how much I've been made a fool of. Every time that Weaponskill leaves a monster at 1% health... I could assure you, if I were a relic holder, I'd be murderous...

After all that.

You see some dude get a weapon that surpasses yours all the while having fun getting it, and rewarding everyone that helped HEAVILY with free +2 upgrade items in a matter of weeks.

Relic holders aren't mad at Empyrean holders. They're mad they weren't given any break, that they've been made a fool of. Dynamis is torture for most people, including people getting relics. It always delivered sub-par gear, and rarely at that. Getting and Empyrean is awesome fun. I've helped close to Eight people now get theirs. I know relic holders DO get angry when an Empyrean just throw salt on the wounds. I have yet to see an Empyrean owner, while in the face of a relic owner, not throw salt on the wounds.

That's all. They just want the promise made to be delivered.
And a little civility when they ask SE "Hey, what about that promise you made?"

[Insaniac]

I posted a full page of thank yous to my shell and everyone who helped me achieve such a monumental thing. I also put into effect new rules AFTER finishing my relic to make it easier for others to finish. This is anecdotal obviously but what it does prove is that someone doesn't have to say "I and my shell worked hard" every time they reference the difficulty of obtaining a relic to show appreciation. Of course the help of others is appreciated even if that help most of the time was not selfless. The word WE is in reference to the people participating in this debate. WE being the people who currently have the relics. Using semantics to try and make myself and others out as selfish inconsiderate or unappreciative is quite aggravating.

[Randwolf]

I posted a full page of thank yous to my shell and everyone who helped me achieve such a monumental thing. I also put into effect new rules AFTER finishing my relic to make it easier for others to finish. This is anecdotal obviously but what it does prove is that someone doesn't have to say "I and my shell worked hard" every time they reference the difficulty of obtaining a relic to show appreciation. Of course the help of others is appreciated even if that help most of the time was not selfless. The word WE is in reference to the people participating in this debate. WE being the people who currently have the relics. Using semantics to try and make myself and others out as selfish inconsiderate or unappreciative is quite aggravating.

You missed the point of my post. People want to know the reasons why the venom against relic holders. I gave you one: Some people are bitter about the whole "I got this by myself" impression that is given when not one Relic Holder mentions that these weapons took a lot of people's time, not just theirs. So, by, up to your post, no Relic Holders acknowledging that fact, they reinforce the bitter people's belief about relic holders being selfish as well as not making it the issue of non-relic holders who helped someone get a relic. My point is, if you are trying to get some non-Relic Holders support, not having one relic holder crediting anyone's efforts towards the long relic road simply keeps the debate Relic Holder versus non-Relic Holder. Perfectly fine if you wish to go that route. But, it certainly isn't inviting the support of non-Relic Holders to come to support you. As well as reinforcing the anti-relic camp's resolve.

[Insaniac]

And what I am saying is that in the conversations that have been had never did a point come where it would have made sense for someone to give credit to the people who helped them. That credit was undoubtedly given directly to those people. If someone is getting the impression you are implying that my wording suggests then that person is just trying to find things to not like about people with relics. How disingenuous would it be to cite the effort put forth by the people who helped us along the way but did not get a relic as a reason for relics to be buffed? Relic owners are the ones with an interest in the discussions about weather or not relics should be buffed. To bring up the effort of those kind enough to help us would be a weak argument in that specific discussion. I simply don't see how anyone who wasn't already trying to come to the conclusion that we think we are the only ones who put in work could take that from the posts I have seen.

[Yarly]

The only people who hate relic/mythic are the same people who complain about ffxi being too hard at present time.

[wish12oz]

I spent years obtaining all the salvage gear the my jobs could use (few sets) only to see it all not replaced, but blown out of the water by AF3 stuff, so what did I do? I started gaining the much easier to get AF3 stuff to replace the salvage stuff.

Instead of complaining about outdated gear which will no doubt have its chance to shine again, start working on what's good, and easy to get for the now. That way you're covered no matter what the outcome is.

Stop trying to make sense! Your valid point has no place in this thread!

[Cream_Soda]

As far a I'm concerned, it's not about hating relics or mythics, it's just the attitude of most people who wield them (mainly relics), as they feel they're just 100% deserving to always be on top.


How does having a hard to get weapon/ lot of time getting a weapon effect you?Not at all, but at the same time, how does someone else wanting to get an emp instead effect you. If you want some sort of sense of accomplishment, whether your weapon is better or not, you still completed that long journey or w/e you want to call it.

I think they should be brought up to balance it out a bit better, but auto put as the best, def not.

As I've said before, there should be some relics that are better than mythics and emps. Some Mythics that are better than emps and relics. Some Emps that are better than mythics and relics when all is said and done at 99.

[Byrth]

Arondight is proof that SE does not equate difficulty of obtainment with usefulness. Same with Nadrs. Same with dozens of other items. Basing arguments on that is a bad way to start.

[Randwolf]

And what I am saying is that in the conversations that have been had never did a point come where it would have made sense for someone to give credit to the people who helped them. That credit was undoubtedly given directly to those people. If someone is getting the impression you are implying that my wording suggests then that person is just trying to find things to not like about people with relics. How disingenuous would it be to cite the effort put forth by the people who helped us along the way but did not get a relic as a reason for relics to be buffed? Relic owners are the ones with an interest in the discussions about weather or not relics should be buffed. To bring up the effort of those kind enough to help us would be a weak argument in that specific discussion. I simply don't see how anyone who wasn't already trying to come to the conclusion that we think we are the only ones who put in work could take that from the posts I have seen.

Alright then. Honestly, I could care less what happens to your relics. Not like there aren't another hundred things in the game that are difficult to get. I watched people ride on the backs of their shells to get their relics and act as though it were some gargantuan effort on their part alone. They complain now about the requirements to upgrade. Personally, I think they complain because they may actually have to do some work on their own instead of being carried through the process. Oh well, just as in the past, new things come out that are better than old things. There was never a promise made that your relic would always be the number one weapon in the game.

[Michaeluk]

@ Randwolf not every relic holder had a ls to get the relic for them a lot of people spent time farming, leveling multiple crafts to 100 to get funds, doing dynamis aswell, cockblocked by a nm who wouldn't drop the right attestation for months etc. Just saying it's funny how you assume relic holders are lazy.

The more i think about it the more i feel se will give relics a final hard trial and some will be better than the other weapon counterparts and some will not.

[Randwolf]

@ Randwolf not every relic holder had a ls to get the relic for them a lot of people spent time farming, leveling multiple crafts to 100 to get funds, doing dynamis aswell, cockblocked by a nm who wouldn't drop the right attestation for months etc. Just saying it's funny how you assume relic holders are lazy.

The more i think about it the more i feel se will give relics a final hard trial and some will be better than the other weapon counterparts and some will not.
From what I saw, you are in a group which is a minority of relic holders. Very few solo'd theirs. And, some of the ones that did, used questionable means to raise the gil. My issue is that many of these relic holders did little more work than was done for them by their LS. But, they act as though they personally solo'd Dynamis week after week to upgrade the weapon. I've helped multiple people attain both relics and empy weapons. Most were good people and appreciative. Quite a few were self-serving SOB's. So, although some people busted their butts to get them, I saw many more that rode an LS to get them or used questionable means to get the gil to buy them.

Needless to say, to me, the mystic aura which surrounded these weapons when I first started has faded to tarnished silver plating.

[Byrth]

"SE giveth, and SE taketh away."

If they choose to make the weapons the best, so be it. If they don't, it is no worse than arbitrarily banning you, which is also entirely within their powers. At the moment, you are lucky to have invested your Gil in a relic, as opposed to virtually anything else.

[Insaniac]

I give up. I can't crush grudges you have against other people. Especially over the internet. Just try and put yourself in the shoes of a legitimate relic or mythic owner. If you don't see where we are coming from then you aren't a reasonable person.

The answer to why some people hate relics so much: Ill deserved resentment (in most cases) and lack of empathy.

[Michaeluk]

At the moment, you are lucky to have invested your Gil in a relic, as opposed to virtually anything else.

Wait a minute do you really think i have not lost gil in items aswell such as my dusk gloves +1, etc etc. Of course i have.

[Byrth]

Wait a minute do you really think i have not lost gil in items aswell such as my dusk gloves +1, etc etc. Of course i have.

Well, think about it like this:
Add up the price of currency for Mandau from when you got Mandau.
Add up the the currency for Mandau at current prices (the current market value of a Mandau).

How much did you pay for your Dusk Gloves +1?
What is the value of your Dusk Gloves +1 right now? - I'll fill this in, about 4mil

Percentage-wise, which was a worse investment?

[klostro]

I don't hate relics.. i hate people who think they are entitled to the best weapon in the game.. because they did some retarded long quest.
If it took a year to make your empyrean weapon, instead of a week, would you be mad if I got a weapon that was better than yours in 2 days from an NM drop?

[Nephilipitou]

Well considering my 2 90 jobs are Sch and Pup, Relics mean nothing to me right now. I can't use any of the Relics, and so I didn't really know that they existed for the most part because I mainly focus on Scholar and Pup single mindedly until I get them geared up.

I don't know if i will care about relics, but before you QQ about Relics being underpowered and need to be boosted to be stronger than everything else, maybe every job needs a relic before that. Until then i'll worry about my Empyrean cause that's all I can do.

It's not really a lack of empathy for those who legitimately earned their Relics as well. Who knows how much of the gear I'm working for right now will become outdated when the level cap hits 99. Maybe I'm not working as hard as you think I need to be, to be comparatively worried, but at the same time... You sign on to an MMO knowing that if something major does happen to the game, the stuff you're working so hard to accomplish will be doable much easier at some point.

You just have to do what you think is best for your character. If you care about your relic weapon maybe you don't have to have the best possible weapon, maybe just do trials for your weapon of choice and go "Ya know what? This thing is important to me and I'll take care of it, and hopefully Square Enix will reward me at some point. But if they don't, this thing is near and dear to me. I wear this with honor."

Sometimes you just have to use the items you want to use, and just use Atma to handle what ever shortfalls that gives you.

[lorzy]

Well considering my 2 90 jobs are Sch and Pup, Relics mean nothing to me right now. I can't use any of the Relics, and so I didn't really know that they existed for the most part because I mainly focus on Scholar and Pup single mindedly until I get them geared up.

I don't know if i will care about relics, but before you QQ about Relics being underpowered and need to be boosted to be stronger than everything else, maybe every job needs a relic before that. Until then i'll worry about my Empyrean cause that's all I can do.

this was addressed on the first page of the thread.

[Hoshi]

If it took a year to make your empyrean weapon, instead of a week, would you be mad if I got a weapon that was better than yours in 2 days from an NM drop?

No, I'd go camp the NM.

Speaking as one of those people who worked for years to get other people relics, I really enjoy my empyrean weapon. I won't be crying if next update relics come out on top of empyreans, in fact I think it would be cool if having a relic meant you also got access to the empyrean weapon skill on your relic. I don't hate the people I got nice gear for, but it's nice that I'm finally also able to obtain nice gear even though I don't have a great way to farm millions of gil.

[lorzy]

No, I'd go camp the NM.

Speaking as one of those people who worked for years to get other people relics, I really enjoy my empyrean weapon. I won't be crying if next update relics come out on top of empyreans, in fact I think it would be cool if having a relic meant you also got access to the empyrean weapon skill on your relic. I don't hate the people I got nice gear for, but it's nice that I'm finally also able to obtain nice gear even though I don't have a great way to farm millions of gil.

i don't really understand your post, you seem to take both sides.

as someone who's helped with relics, wouldn't it be somewhat upsetting to see them put it aside? because that's your work, that you (i assume) got nothing out of, and doesn't get any use anymore. my argument, which was quoted in the OP, was that it's great being able to reasonably obtain nice gear, but i'd be fine if that stuff wasn't THE BEST. i also like your idea of relics having access to empyrean weaponskills.


aside from that, the reason i see for wanting relics and mythics, or even any new comparably time-consuming type of weapon, to remain on top is that once you've got all jobs 90 (which doesn't take long at all now), and all empyreans, what is there to do? you can make relics or mythics, but if they're clearly inferior, there would be no point.

[Hoshi]

I see things differently from you. When all my jobs are 90 and I have obtained every empyrean thing in the game I would play to help others in my linkshell obtain these things. It's fun to have nice stuff but it's more fun to be playing with friends... XI gives us a reason to have fun together but ultimately it's the people that make the game fun for me.

I'm not a fan of the relic quests because I find them quite tedious... there's a bit of nice storyline at the end of it but I'm quite burnt out on dynamis and there's literally nothing I need from it aside from currency. The mythic quests are a bit more interesting but the alexandrite supply limits the number of mythics completable and the mythic itsself is the most disappointing of the 3 weapon types we're discussing. Assuming I 'beat the game' and my friends needed nothing I would probably spend my time attempting to solo interesting NMs and goofing off on vent.

[Humie]

I dont think most people hate relics, there are ony a few types of people that get relics
- people who steal a LS bank and upgrade a relic
- people who make a LS with a unfair system claiming all the currency then break the ls
- people who have no crafts or other ways of making vast amounts of gill yet upgrade a relic in a few motnhs (gill buyers)
- people who put years into dynamis, crafting farming ect dedicating all there spare time to upgrading

Unfortunatly the first 3 types of people stick in peoples memories more and are more common than the dedicated relic holders

My relic took me 4-5 years to upgrade going to every dynamis run for 5 years and using my points for currency (as a ls member not a leader) then crafting while i was out of events. Yet people see a relic and presume there a idiot, thinking i wonder who they rolled over for that relic

[Septimus]

And here's where I go off on one of my long winded posts:

At the time Relic holders in order to just keep up with easily attained Stat+X weapons needed to kill in upwards of like 3,500 mobs or whatever initially with a killshot from a relatively underpowered weaponskill. With the only known reward, that once they are done with the trials, it would only be a few damage more than the next best alternative.
Empyreans existed, but no mention of the weaponskills were made just yet, and they seemed out of reach for just a cool looking weapon.

Later hey added weapons that were just drops off mobs that offered close to the same stats as the relics and let people use the exclusive weaponskill associated with it. Meanwhile Relic holders had to kill 4,500 more monsters in the same fashion as before, just to be within 1 base damage as said [free] weapons.

A little later the first Empyreans started to finally surface. As did their weaponskills...

Historically SE made the effort to make sure any relic holder had access to any/all weaponskills for that weapon. Empyreans had something that relics did not.

Relic holders already knew SE hosed relic holders in their weaponskills. They were typically pretty bad, getting blown out of the water in most cases by a weaponskill attained at level 60 (still are in some cases). The weaponskills that were just introduced at skill~300 were laughable at best(at the time). The first reports of the Empyrean weaponskills were startling and overwhelmingly powerful to say the least.

All the while SE kept assuring relic holders that "an update was coming" for relics.
If the update was killing 9,000 mobs...

So now it was more a matter of a broken promise in the face of "They DID have the resources to make good on that promise. But they decided not to."

it's less a matter of a "sense of entitlement", so much as it's SE promised something that never came. SE said they were going to enhance Relics BEFORE the level cap, and never did. Then made Empyreans when they could have fixed relics first.

While at the same time gave relic holders trials that would best be described as punishment.

Would that seem fair to you if you were a relic holder?

5) The "Just make an Empyrean" alternative. Sure. Let's help the guy with a relic get an Empyrean... Do you have any idea how low on the list of "People to help get an Empyrean" a relic holder would(should) be? "Hey my Mandau only does 3-4k Eviscerations, how 'bout y'all help me kill a bunch of Glavoids and THAT GOD DAMN FLEA FROM HELL WHO SHALL REMAIN NAMESLESS, how does that sound guys?"

Yeah.. exactly...

So yeah, after spending more money than any four people you know combined.
Going through linkshell politics for about two years, including whining, people stealing, ninja-lotting, whining, back-stabbing, leaving, coming back, whining, balancing zone variety, wiping, losing a glass, whining, people not passing and losing armor/coins, and whining...
Having to deal with knowing 25 or more people who are doing it for you, which is a lot of stress on your shoulders.
Running out of money and wondering how you're going to fund the next glass.
Being told "Yes we know they are under powered and we will fix them soon."
FOR TWO F'ING YEARS!!!

Then:
Having to kill 9,000 monsters with a weaponskill that's STILL underpowered.
While watching people get the Stat+x weapons stealing your mobs in massive alliances while you're trying to get a killshot. KNOWING thier weapons is probably better.

I can guarantee you, if I was a relic holder, every killshot would be like a reminder of how much I've been made a fool of. Every time that Weaponskill leaves a monster at 1% health... I could assure you, if I were a relic holder, I'd be murderous...

After all that.

You see some dude get a weapon that surpasses yours all the while having fun getting it, and rewarding everyone that helped HEAVILY with free +2 upgrade items in a matter of weeks.

Relic holders aren't mad at Empyrean holders. They're mad they weren't given any break, that they've been made a fool of. Dynamis is torture for most people, including people getting relics. It always delivered sub-par gear, and rarely at that. Getting and Empyrean is awesome fun. I've helped close to Eight people now get theirs. I know relic holders DO get angry when an Empyrean just throw salt on the wounds. I have yet to see an Empyrean owner, while in the face of a relic owner, not throw salt on the wounds.

That's all. They just want the promise made to be delivered.
And a little civility when they ask SE "Hey, what about that promise you made?"

Why has everyone ignored this? This is why people with Relic Weapons think their weapons should be better. Not because they are better than everyone else, but their upgrade trials are some sort of Sadomasochistic tango of endurance. Considering the huge amount of work that you have to do to upgrade a relic weapon, they should be better than they are.

I don't have a relic (although I technically did earn one that I passed to someone that I felt deserved it more), I can say that I honestly think that relic owners got shafted.

[Glamdring]

I don't hate relic or mythic, I'd actually like to have them for my jobs.

The problem is, the game has passed them by. Dynamis is getting tweaked, so maybe getting new relic will be reasonable and we can simply continue on the 75-90 Empyrean upgrade path. Mythic? Maybe they'll work on making that worthwhile to attempt in the future.

They were awesome when noone actually expected the game to ever pass 75... but it did. It seems the relic/mythic holders that are complaining want to require everyone to hold one themselves before they pass 75 on a job. Unfortunately, that really isn't a reasonable expectation, especially if you expect other players to be able to contribute to end-game content.

It's kind of funny, because it's a reverse complaint; relic/mythic holders did alot of work to upgrade their weapon to the best at level 75, and they can continue to be upgraded to be the best at level 90 (mostly, we know about Aegis, but the job that can use it is also currently in ruins with current game content). However, because players can upgrade a weapon to be adequate in a few weeks the emperyean weapon holders are somehow not working seems to be the allegation. So the relic/mythic holders want a free upgrade from stage 4 to stage 7 without working. Why?

The trials to further upgrade a relic/mythic to continue their domination of their job's weapon slot are really no harder than the WS weapon trials, you just have to put in a little time-which the relic peeps were just complaining was too easy. Face it, your relic/mythic was a time-sink to begin with. It was designed so that you would almost have to create your own LS of people full-timing dynamis runs solely for the shellholder's benefit on the relic weapon front (they could get armor, but that's about it); mythic weapons were even worse which is why so few botherred to attain them at all, but if you did try SE could collect alot of fees while you satisfied your "to-do" list.

Believe it or not, not every player wanted to be in a full-time end-game or HNMLS type group, I think the majority simply wanted to have fun, not trophies. I know I never did, if I wanted to work that hard I'd just get a 2nd full-time real-life job and enjoy real cash. When I eventually take all my jobs to 99 and decide on 1 I will almost exclusively play I probably will get a mythic and upgrade it all the way to stage 9 for the awesomeness (currently leaning towards Aymur), but in the meantime I'll stick with my Empyrean weaps as I level so that my group can depend on me to contribute to their efforts. If you want to be able to brag that you're the best because you put in all this effort for your awesome "fill in the blank" feel free, my /blist still has room; if you just want to show up and put up good play-relic/mythic or not-my /flist has room too...

[Rambus]

thanks for all the replays, kind of forgot bout the thread, no idea why it was moved here. I want to read more carfully what everyone has said before giving a better replay.

[Hayward]

To be completely honest, I do not hate Relic, Mythic, or Empyrean weapons. I EXTREMELY dislike the systems required to get them. To my mind, Each and every one of them invites corruption, collusion, patronage, and various other social maladies that has turned me away from going after any of the weapons. Let not even mention the hoops S-E requires us to jump through that practically REQUIRED us to put ourselves in the power of others whose trust is murkier than swamp water. The Empyrean system is probably the LEAST odious since the most you have to worry about is someone stealing your upgrade items or upgrading a weapon that requires Chloris Buds.

[Wenceslao]

The real problem is weapons like the relic bow and gun being way too good compared to every other weapon in the game

the bow and gun really need nerfing

Why should be nerfed?, How many ppls have u seen with that relics?, they are suppose to stand a challenge to players, so i think the reward worth the time and effort, btw idc on getting a Empyrean weapon as they really do not pose a challenge to a ppl, i've been working on my Gugnir relic for a long time and i'll be proud of getting one, no matter if it's overwhelmed by a new one, as i'll know the effort it took me to get it.

[Unctgtg]

Its already been confirmed they are beefing up relics/mythics to be better and on par with emp.

[Byrth]

We are aware that there currently exists a major difference between the strength of Empyrean weapons and that of Relic and Mythic weapons.

In regards to that balance issue, we are planning to make adjustments. We plan to create a higher level of balance by strengthening both Relic and Mythic weapons instead of simply weakening Empyrean weapons.

Along with that, we are also planning to make adjustments to both the time and cost required to create and strengthen Relic and Mythic weapons. Eventually, we would like to even out the differences in the amount of time required to create and strengthen these weapons.

Sounds like they're also making them substantially easier to make, or making Empyreans harder. Dynamis rework is probably the first step in making Relics easier to get. I bet it is accompanied by a straight reduction in requirements.
They said today that Mythics/Salvage/etc won't be in the next update, but will be later.

[Unctgtg]

Sounds like they're also making them substantially easier to make, or making Empyreans harder. Dynamis rework is probably the first step in making Relics easier to get. I bet it is accompanied by a straight reduction in requirements.
They said today that Mythics/Salvage/etc won't be in the next update, but will be later.

They said obtaining not beefing them up, which they are doing in this update.

[Byrth]

They said exactly what I quoted. They're definitely going to make Relics and Mythics stronger so that they're "balanced" with Empyreans.

They're also going to either make Empyreans harder to get or relics/mythics easier to get or both (the last paragraph of what I quoted).

Basically, I don't think Kikoku Ninjas that went out and got Kannagi are going to have wasted their time.