Monstrosity Feedback [Archive] - FINAL FANTASY XI Forum

Camate

08-09-2013, 03:18 AM

Greetings monipulators. :D

How does Vana’diel look through the eyes of a monster? Just when Ronfaure rabbits thought they were safe from adventurers, now they have to worry about monsters they thought were friendly!

Below Ryota Iwagami has answered some questions about the system.

Hello.

Thanks for your thoughts on Monstrosity thus far!
I’m breathing a little easier now that it seems like you are all enjoying it.

We are currently working on expansions for this content, so please look forward to it as you play with the system.

Now then, I’d like to answer a couple of questions.

Positioning when teleporting to areas from the Feretory
Considering the implementation of PvP, we’ve made the position you teleport to random so you are not stalked and forced to fight the same person over and over. When in non-PvP mode, it’s possible to address this so you spawn in fixed locations, but there is a concern that it will result in fighting for monster claims in the area you spawn. Also, allowing you to choose your spawn point will result in problems of how we will have you choose the location, so we’ve made it so it is selected randomly from multiple points. We would like to continue making this content easy to play, so please continue to submit you feedback.

Relinquish destination
There is a reason why you are returned to your adventurer form when you select to relinquish your monster form.
Considering the usability for future content, we'd like to monitor the current situation for a while. Once we have something to share we will be sure to let you all know.

Magic spells
I received some additional responses about this while I was in the midst of preparing a reply, and I will be posting in the coming days. It's going to take me a little bit.

Area expansion
We need to give consideration for the balance with other content, and while it won't happen during August, we are in the midst of working on this. We are putting priority on implementing levels for large-scale monsters that will be difficult to level up.

Our aim is to inspire you through Monstrosity to play other content and do other things you haven’t done before, so we’ve added some elements where it would be beneficial to obtain items as an adventurer. One example is the items you can obtain from Mog Gardens.

This is a collaborative plan designed around the below ideas:

Make it so people who have yet to experience Mog Gardens have an opportunity to do so
Make it so people who have experienced Mog Gardens but have yet to play Monstrosity give it a chance because they are obtaining these items.

In addition to Mog Gardens, we plan on having other events where you can obtain seeds and other special items, so please look forward to it.

The items you can obtain for Monstrosity as an adventurer have been created to make playing Monstrosity even more fun, so basically we will not be making it so if you don’t obtain items as an adventurer you cannot become a new monster family. Looking at everyone’s comments, there was some surprise that there was one somewhat difficult element for unlocking a sub-species, but we’ve prepared elements you can aim for to make Monstrosity even more fun, so please talk with your fellow monipulators and try to go obtain these items together.

Thank you.

Also, if you could please use this thread to centralize all feedback relating to Monstrosity it would help out a lot! Thanks :cool:

SpankWustler

08-09-2013, 04:07 AM

Positioning when teleporting to areas from the Feretory
Considering the implementation of PvP, we’ve made the position you teleport to random so you are not stalked and forced to fight the same person over and over. When in non-PvP mode, it’s possible to address this so you spawn in fixed locations, but there is a concern that it will result in fighting for monster claims in the area you spawn. Also, allowing you to choose your spawn point will result in problems of how we will have you choose the location, so we’ve made it so it is selected randomly from multiple points. We would like to continue making this content easy to play, so please continue to submit you feedback.

Random spawn points would be 100% okay, and sometimes even lead to really pleasant surprises in zones I've rarely explored since level 75+ monsters were added to them, if the initial scampering stealth mode just lasted a bit longer.

My urge to punch some skeletons in Gusgen Mines as a Wet No. Two Mandragora was quickly ended by some rather aggressive Accursed Soldiers that the teleport roulette system saw fit to pit me against over and over again. The dead are not amused by poop jokes, for only the living can poop, and that fills them with jealous rage.

Bamph

08-09-2013, 04:10 AM

I'm not sure about the idea of giving us all the magic, but I noticed that I have Warp, but cannot use it on myself.

Kaisha

08-09-2013, 04:13 AM

I'm not sure about the idea of giving us all the magic, but I noticed that I have Warp, but cannot use it on myself.
There's quite a few spells you can't use on yourself or others, such as Warp, Escape, Tractor, Raise, Reraise, Teleport spells, etc.

I'm guessing the magic list is still a work in progress? From what I've been hearing, you have to have unlocked the spells on your regular self first, before you can use them on appropriate monsters under Monstrosity, which would blow if you're someone who only focused on melee classes in their FFXI career.

Been enjoying the distraction at any rate. Just hope partying up becomes available on the update later this month, as lvl50+ starts to become a chore with the currently available areas.

And Camate, manage to unlock Behemoth yet?

Demon6324236

08-09-2013, 05:05 AM

I understand the idea of random spawns but can you please make the locations it can put you dependent on the level you are at? Say for instance the Dunes, you would pop up somewhere near the Plateau or Highlands entrances if at 12 or under, and as you get higher the spawns to the west become possibilities as well after time. This would allow people the safety of being near the things at their target level more easily. As it stands now, someone can pick an area and be thrown into the highest level part, for instance as a level 30 Bee in the Glacier I expected to be near enemies who were level 34 as the menu suggested, however I was thrown all the way to the bottom area near Fei'yin with level 40 enemies scattered along my path to the easier enemies, while I was able to take our 1 or 2 Goblins who were 10~13 levels above me, I fell when a Goblin aggroed during my fight with a Tiger.

In the end, the random spawn caused my death, and the level suggestions are very often false because of this system, so you should make some sort of adjustment to where it will put you depending on your level. Had a I been a level 35 or 40, I would have ended up in a perfectly fine location, but as a Bee which was 10 levels under everything around me, it was simply an issue which killed me.

Melraen

08-09-2013, 05:22 AM

Have to say, I've really been enjoying Monstrosity so far! It's nice to have something you can do purely for the fun of it. =3 I'm very much looking forward to being able to party up when it's possible. I agree though, it would be nice if the gestation state would last longer, or if the game would try to put you in places safer for your level.

Vivivivi

08-09-2013, 05:25 AM

A+ All around, fantastic job so far :) Can't wait to see how it "evolves" :D

I posted this in another thread, but to consolidate the feedback here, I'll add here as well.

These are all suggestions on ways to proceed forward, the implementation so far I love in every way!!

I was thinking about how adventurers partying with monsters could work and came up with the following suggestions:

Limit 1 party per alliance to monsters OR one party slot per party to monsters. Having an alliance of 18 Hahava's might be a little broken lol.

Have monsters share the same types of rules as pets- no casting buffs on pets or cures, but allow monsters to use abilities or magic on their adventuring party members. Allow monsters to buff/cure other monsters (currently allowed! a player playing as a beetle came by and cast cure on me when I was a mandragora).

When partying with adventurers, 'spawn' near the party leader, and include a weakness cool down if KO'd. I say keep the no weakness/random respawn for soloing or monster only parties.

Allow a special relationship between monsters in the same party as a beastmaster, either via the charm ability or a new ability. This would allow the beastmaster to use pet food on the monster, and use killer instinct, maybe even run wild etc. When "charmed" the beastmaster wouldnt actually have control over the monster, but could use those abilities listed above. Disallow the ability for a beastmaster to have an additional pet out while the monster is "charmed".

One other idea I had was to introduce a new method for "trading" otherwise rare/ex gear. Giving the feeling that even thought you may be dueling with a friend, you still have a chance to obtain a worthwhile item! This could be restricted to specific items, disallowing delve equipment, REM weapons, and other trial weapons, but perhaps allow VW pulse gear for example. The idea would be to have a monster and adventurer square off in a confrontation status, agreed on by both players, and both put something on the line such as a Toci's Harness and Anhur Robe. At the end of the bout, the winner recieves the item that the other player put up.

Edyth

08-09-2013, 05:43 AM

Is it true that traits that do not function for MONs show up on their trait lists (Gilfinder and Treasure Hunter for example)? As well as unusable spells, like Warp?

Nix that, or let us use them please.

PS. I am definitely enjoying Monstrosity. I would like to have quests and NMs for my monster to battle for rewards. This would make maxing out our monsters more than just a fun pastime.

Vagrua

08-09-2013, 06:29 AM

I also am enjoying monstrosity.

I have only two complaints:
1. Infamy caps at 10000 & will not go any further until spent.
2. Once defeated, I'd like to have a choice to return to the lobby instead of just to my adventuring form.

Wanderlustfully

08-09-2013, 06:42 AM

I enjoy this new leveling system where we can be monsters and what not, but me and my friends have been having issues with playing with this. We can not check how tough monsters are, nor can we see the experience we are getting, or when we level up, and we can not check other people. We are not being able to to enjoy the full benefits of this game the way other players and are and it NEEEEEEDS TOOOO BEEEEE FIIIIIXED!!!!!!!!! Thank you :/

Karbuncle

08-09-2013, 07:10 AM

All great planned adjustments. I have a few recommendations, even though some are in the works, Here's what I'd like to see as a priority!

1) Unlock RoTZ and CoP Zones soon - This is sorely needed. I mean, I enjoy exploring the original zones, But Its getting repetitive and it gets real hard to level around 60. Opening up some fresh new zones would be great. Especially needed for Larger Enemies.

2) Party Play! - Exp above 50 becomes slow, as it does with a player, I've lost the will to grind past 60 even as a RDM bee. Please introduce this ASAP! A lot of people look forward to it!

3) Increasing Infamy Cap - Current its capped at 10k, And you did mention it would go higher, Would like this even if you just increase it to 20k for now... It caps so easily XD

4) Pvp - Yes prz :3

5) "Relinquish" Takes you back to Monster-Island, Not human form. - Pretty please!!

Thats my wish list, I would really like to see new zones, like, really, its entirely too crowded in the existing zones and it becomes boring killing crabs, fish, or crawlers for 40 levels.

winxsoceanis

08-09-2013, 10:55 AM

I abosuletly love being a monster though i admit there are two main things i hate 1. getting teled to a high level zone with sneak not able to last long enough 2. Big monsters are really limited on areas they can train (like i am a morbol atm) other than that love it and i hope a fish or water monster will be avaiable in the future

Vriska_Serket

08-09-2013, 08:19 PM

Hawklaser

08-09-2013, 08:56 PM

Something that may be of use for those that start up monstrosity later than the rest of us, could be having one of the NPC's in the Feretory mentioning how far off a monsters next non-TP move unlock is. Does not need to give specific level ranges, but a clue as to if nearing one or not would be useful for those that don't check wikis often.

The Beast family of monsters is a great example of where something like this would be useful for late comers.

Karbuncle

08-10-2013, 07:22 AM

Everything in this post, along with;

- Make gestation last until I click it off to cancel it. Because being dumped in a high level area of a low level zone sucks, especially on monsters with movespeed penalties. Unlimited sneak/invis isn't overpowered when you only get it once & it's not on your adventurer self.

Actually going to Echo this. Cause Gestation lasting like 15 seconds is stupid.

I tried to go to Fei'Yin to Exp, if you don't get put near the camp you're aiming for? You're f**ked. You either die, or relinquish. Testing the Random Number Generator hoping you don't get dumped next to level 65 enemies at level 34 is not only incredibly infuriating but really kills your will to play.

Make Gestation last for at least 5 minutes or until you click it off, please?

I'm seriously getting genuinely pissed off having to play "Camp roulette" in hopes i don't get shafted on my pop location and have to suicide or go back to player form and try again. It sucks all the fun out of the system when half the time spent after level 40 is Dying or Relinquishing in hopes you end up in a level appropriate camp.

Briarb19

08-10-2013, 08:30 AM

My feelings on Monstrosity so far? I definitely think you're on to something here. I think this system has some serious potential and could literally reinvent FFXI, assuming you play your cards right here. The worst thing you could do now is impose too many restrictions. At a minimum, keep it simple and allow us the basic functionality of partying/allying up with each other and fighting against other parties/allies. Allow normal players to participate in this as well. If you restrict this to 1v1 or even party v 1, it will not last. Let us decide how we want to use the system. If my linkshell wants to take two alliances out into the field and duke it out, let us. Just create a simple on/off switch so people can decide whether they wish to participate in the PVP aspect or not when running around in the field. If you are too restrictive with the PVP aspect, you could kill this system before it even gets off the ground. If you want to expand on that basic functionality and create events with reward systems, that's fine, but keep the basics in place.

All in all, so far so good! Great job so far. Myself, and my LS, are very much looking forward to the PVP aspect of this event. Please keep us posted!

Sothis

08-10-2013, 09:49 AM

Overall, having a brilliant time with Monstrosity. By far the most fun I've had in XI since.. I can't even remember when. It's going to keep me playing when I probably otherwise would've left.

My only two complaints both sort of revolve around the "random Feretory warp" though. Definitely echoing the longer duration Gestation sentiment, because I've gotten dumped into too many horrible places at horrible levels to be there. I'd also really like - since we can't pick where we spawn - to be able to interact with certain things, like the Banishing Gates in Garlaige Citadel. It's unfortunate to get stuck behind the first gate repeatedly in the mid-30s (and either die or Relinquish because you can't get back out), and then not be able to get back there when you actually want to be there.

SpankWustler

08-10-2013, 07:38 PM

Make Gestation last for at least 5 minutes or until you click it off, please?

This. Once More, this.

I leveled a handful of different monsters to 30 or just past it to get some instincts and unlocks and whatnots, so I'm only now experimenting with the various places that work well for leveling in the 30-40 range. There are a lot of options there.

My biggest discovery? I get warped to lots of terrifying places in Garliege Citadel, Crawler's Nest, Beaucedine Glacier, etc. no matter which one I pick. I settled on the Glacier as it seems easier to avoid aggro there, and well, I'm still pretty sure the goblins in Beaucedine Glacier will have completed many "Kill 8 members of the Wet No. Two family" Field of Valor pages by the time I'm able to reach an area that matches my level on multiple critters.

Other than this, I'm really enjoying Monstrosity. I particularly love how there are high level variants of tiny and/or adorable monsters, such as the RDM/THF Luckybug or the WHM/WAR White Rabbit, that seem just as strong as the gigantic and/or predatory stuff that resides near the top of each species tree.

Tohihroyu

08-10-2013, 08:10 PM

Monster parties!

Make Gestation last longer PLEASE...I decided to venture into a zone that said "Lvl 10~" and guess where I'm sent? smack in the middle of IT/IT+ Yagudo who wanted to make some tasty Rarab Steak...

Make the whole PvP thing separate from current Play as a monster...really do not want this fun ruined by elitists who think it would be lulz to run around killing other players as a 99 [insert monster here] vice verca of low level monster players being KO'd like make a separate arena area for PvP please... (and also lest we see one too many "Wet Fantasy Malboro" attacking female characters >.> )

What about the ability to chose your monster type depending on your story progress? like finishing wotg would unlock Monoceros (both types) depending on what the rest (inc nations maybe?) offer it could motivate players to finish expansions?

Devon

08-10-2013, 09:29 PM

I appreciate you answering our questions. Can you address some of the issue with certain players not being able to check the level of monsters. I have been killed by so many monsters and not being able to advance because i can not see how hard they are... or I'm fighting weak monsters too long because I don't realize when they are too easy. Please fix this so that all players can see the toughness of other monsters, check other players, and see themselves recieve xp and lv up. Its kinda annoying that has happened and no one has addressed it yet. Thank you in advance. ^^

Greetings monipulators. :D

How does Vana’diel look through the eyes of a monster? Just when Ronfaure rabbits thought they were safe from adventurers, now they have to worry about monsters they thought were friendly!

Below Ryota Iwagami has answered some questions about the system.

Also, if you could please use this thread to centralize all feedback relating to Monstrosity it would help out a lot! Thanks :cool:

Byrth

08-11-2013, 12:54 AM

Overall, really having a lot of fun. Some minor things I have noticed:
1) We really need more zones for the low 30s and 60~80.

2) Certain TP moves need to be adjusted, like:
- Sharp Sting and Leaf Dagger are both highly inaccurate because (as far as I can tell) they rely on Ranged Accuracy which is unaffected by Instincts (like DRG and RNG Instinct)
- Sheep Song is very magically inaccurate

3) There is currently a very long delay after specific monster moves. Like, Wild Carrot has a ~10 second delay after it. These are terrible and make these abilities very annoying to use.

Chakoteh

08-11-2013, 03:48 AM

Yugl

08-11-2013, 04:09 AM

Can you add descriptions for species as well? We have generic player-given names such as "Brown Lizard" and "Gray Lizard", but giving us an official list of species would be nice.

Karbuncle

08-11-2013, 04:58 AM

ok, it's fun to be a monster and smack & kill stuff but... what is the ultimate goal here? we get no drops and there does not appear to be any rewards for this particular aspect of the game. Is the only reward being able to kill higher and higher mobs? Like everything in FFXI, it takes time to pursue monstrosity and I'm just wondering if I'm doing this purely for the enjoyment of gaining infamy to be an NM or HNM OR ... are there other 'rewards' planned for monstrosity?

Here ya go.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/monstrosity/index.html

Scroll to the bottom, or read the entire thing, but the ultimate importance of this event is pretty much spelled. Most of its not implemented yet and I'd put this as more of a "head start" to the event, allowing you to get the hang of it, level some Monsters, and unlock some things before all the pvp/rewards are added.

Reading update notes helps, they give us a lot of information in them.

Hashmalum

08-11-2013, 05:30 AM

First, I am enjoying Monstrosity quite a bit. I would like to echo the idea of making gestation last longer and be cancelable though. I've noticed that in general healing abilities are extremely weak; my level 51 morbol just drained 53 HP from a Tough yagudo WHM, for instance. Photosynthesis was also not very worthwhile. I only took bee to level 16 but Pollen was underwhelming as well. Could these perhaps be made more useful? As it is, they might as well be empty slots on the menu.

Karbuncle

08-11-2013, 06:11 AM

At level 60, Pollen does about 800-850 HP, not great, not terrible. Still, WHM, RDM, etc mobs seem to have a high Cure Potency/Healing Skill or something, Cure IV on my RDM be cured about 800 HP. And yah, "Drain" TP moves have always sucked, even for monsters :(, Its sad.

IDK if they'll get balanced up considering they're as weak for enemies as they are for us, would be cool though.

Zarabi

08-11-2013, 12:54 PM

Edyth

08-11-2013, 06:22 PM

MONs need to be able to open doors. Getting sick of returning to the feretory just because the game insists on spawning me on the wrong side of doors.

Gestation duration needs to be tripled or even longer than that, and it needs to give flee speed. Getting sick of returning to the feretory just because the game insists on spawning me in level 90+ portions. There's no reason we shouldn't get ample time to go to a desired part of a dungeon before being forced to warp out because we have no sneak/invisible.

Aside from that, I'm extremely happy with Monstrosity, but these flaws are preventing me from getting my raptor from 30-34 because there's no field area for that range, and the only monsters a decent level in Beaucedine for me to challenge this early are tigers that have Lizard Killer.

Tiesto

08-11-2013, 11:54 PM

- Make Relinquish actually take you to the Feretory.
- Do something about Gestation..at least make it last a minute or so if you don't want to go overboard.
- Pollen for Bees is...not good.
- I have often have accuracy issues, and die to monsters I..should defeat, due to missing 10 times in a row.

Dragoon's instinct HP+5% Accuracy+40 Conserve TP+10 there you go oh and the faratory is for your beastly vessel it says so when you use relinquish it states that your "form" will be sent back to the Faratory.

Relinquish: Releases a monipulator's soul from possessing a monster after a count of five. Moving and enemy actions interrupt the spell. Working as intended!!

Hashmalum

08-12-2013, 01:46 PM

Morbol's Putrid Breath needs to have the TP cost lowered, it is higher than the TP cost for Miasmic Breath which outshines it in absolutely every possible way. Comparison:

Level learned: 50 for Miasmic, 60 for Putrid. Advantage: Miasmic.
TP cost: 200 for Miasmic, 250 for Putrid. Advantage: Miasmic.
Damage: 500+ for Miasmic, 300+ for Putrid. Advantage: Miasmic.
Status effects: A strong Poison for Miasmic, none whatsoever for Putrid. Advantage: Miasmic.
Targeting: Damage around the target for both. Advantage: tied.

There is no time whatsoever that you would use Putrid Breath over Miasmic Breath, because Miasmic Breath is far superior and is learned earlier so there is no time you would have Putrid Breath and not have Miasmic Breath.

detlef

08-12-2013, 03:31 PM

It's a little crowded right now; some of the areas are congested.

Karbuncle

08-12-2013, 03:36 PM

Beaucedine Glacier is a GD War zone, 93 People there on Asura.. Personally unless they're all (Large) mob they're pretty tarded... There's some awesome 31~ Camps not Beauc.

but yah, I hope they add more zones in the End of August update...

Bamph

08-13-2013, 01:23 AM

I know at the moment you can't change monstrosities without losing the rest of the XP from that level. Is this planned to change, or is it going to be kept that way?

Leiberfond

08-13-2013, 02:47 AM

First of all I just want to say Thank You SE! I absolutely love Monstrosity Content. Its fun solo content for people who just enjoy to level and explore. I love the random spawn feature because it puts me in camps I may never have found and I think it will be very useful with the upcoming expansions. Monstrosity, as a long time player, reminds me of XPing way back when. I do have some suggestions mostly ones that have already been placed here.
Remove the large monsters in dungeon restriction:it is extremely difficult to find camps to gain XP 50+ and specifically 70+. Grounds of valor added mobs are the best XP options and are only found inside Dungeons.
Increase Gestation Times:Sometimes 15 seconds is just not enough to get away from the high level mobs or to a safe camp in general. 5 Minutes would be ideal but even 1 minute would be plenty for most areas.
Expand on the areas:I would make this a top priority.
Give a Respawn Command Give a Monster Ability of Respawn to take you to another Random Location so you dont have to die if you dont like where it put you to start with.
Address issues of doors:In some areas doors cannot be targeted making travel difficult but in others (Castle Ostrojah) the doors are able to be opened.
Expand on the suggested level of areas:It is somewhat hard to find high level camps and the descriptions of the areas that have large range of monster levels is very deceiving. Possibly organize it by a 10 level gap and then list all the areas what have monsters of those levels.
Make the random spawn a little more intuitive:Make the random spawn to certain points based on your level. i.e. if you are level 10 and choose Castle Oztroja do a random spawn on the first floor, If you are level 50+ random spawn to the 3rd or 4th floor.

Those are my suggestions from playing alot of Monstrosity up to this point (Level 76 White Tiger right now).
Some things I would like to see for new content involving Monstrosity.
Monstrosity Spawned NM quests: create NMs/spawn locations that can only be spawned as a Mon and have them give Mon rewards(Instincts or Mon Unique creature models. i.e. Purple Malboro. Or have them unlock new jobs.)
Instincts that give abilities: Getting a Mon to 99 may unlock an instinct that will allow a Mon to use the TP move of a different Mon. i.e. An Instinct that would allow any mob to use a Tiger's "Roar". Or have this be part of the above quest rewards.
Instincts that unlock MON 1hour abilities or Job Abilities in general:sometimes it would be nice to use Aflatus:Solace or even just Provoke mobs for pulling.

Once again thank you so much for Monstrosity and I am very anxious to see what you have in store for us. I hope my ideas were voiced clearly. Thank you for reading my long winded reply.

Zarabi

08-13-2013, 07:47 PM

Dragoon's instinct HP+5% Accuracy+40 Conserve TP+10 there you go oh and the faratory is for your beastly vessel it says so when you use relinquish it states that your "form" will be sent back to the Faratory.

Relinquish: Releases a monipulator's soul from possessing a monster after a count of five. Moving and enemy actions interrupt the spell. Working as intended!!

True, the Dragoon's instinct was helpful, has not noticed that by then.
Relinquish may be working as intended but.. not as I hope it would. :D

sc4500

08-13-2013, 08:25 PM

I like to see it as a true sandbox mmo style version, were any thing goes. can have linkshells holding areas and people just having fun.

Like a full blown pvp sandbox. If i am a healer. I can heal the mob there fighting so they got to fight me or they get mad and give up. If there mad they can call in there friends to destroy me. Heck even have it so that those not in the fight if I show up as easy prey or higher they can attack me. Need to be able to form party and alliances and have if in linkshell in same area you can not kill, but out side watch out. see 40 bees running . If some dude like I got you and then he got 80 linkshell members running on him , or he was the decoy and had 80 members hiding out. Then just one giant ass fun fight and war.

Right now it a nice theme park and well thought out. Need to take it to the next level heheee.

I would like to see some way to add, balyd,conquest points, besiege points, allied notes also. With the infamy points also. Heck maybe have a way that can add exp to your jobs from the infamy points.

for those on here. here all ffxiah.com and info for the mobs stuff. http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/39980/monstrosity-species-guide/15/

Firebert_Lakshmi

08-14-2013, 04:49 PM

I'm liking the content so far. I'd like to one day become an Adamantoise so I can lay eggs for myself.

Bamph

08-14-2013, 11:27 PM

Hashmalum

08-15-2013, 10:07 AM

While playing a spellcasting monster is enjoyable, there is a problem for some people playing these monsters: they will not have the spells on their monster spell list, because the monster spell list will only have spells on it that the player learned in their ordinary jobs. You can't use the appropriate scrolls to learn the spells while a monster either (I just tried it; the "use" option for the scroll is greyed out when playing as a monster). Furthermore, this also prevents player-controlled monsters from casting monster-only spells such as Paralyga and equipment-only spells such as Impact.

I would suggest some combination of one or more of the following three options be implemented:
1) Automatically give player monsters all appropriate spells for their monsters job and level while they are playing that monster.
2) Create instincts that add spells to the spell list when equipped.
3) Allow the player to use scrolls appropriate to their monster's job and level when playing Monstrosity.

Zarabi

08-15-2013, 04:56 PM

I really wish monsters could use spells the player has not learned. I don't feel like leveling PLD and BLM.... I DO feel like leveling monster.

Firebert_Lakshmi

08-16-2013, 12:38 AM

This may be a wild and crazy idea, but what if it was possible to use this system and create a new job? I was thinking the Morpher job from FFTA. Keep the Monstrosity system as it is, but when you're playing a Morpher, you can change to any of your monsters. The morphed version would have to be nerfed a little, and the monster's level would be synced to the Morpher's level, or the Party if under Level Sync. Hell, add the job unlock quest to CoP areas so that expansion can finally get a job unlock quest.

Camate

08-16-2013, 05:20 AM

Greetings everyone!

Thanks for all the feedback thus far for Monstrosity! We're happy to hear that you are all enjoying your alternate lives as monsters. :p

Below is some information from Ryota Iwagami about upcoming adjustments and additions to the Monstrosity system.

Hello.

I’d like to let you know about the future plans we have for Monstrosity.

Adjustments Phase 1

Expansion of areas
Addressing the below two points are our priority:

Not enough areas where you can level large monsters.
Not enough areas that support high levels.

Monipulator vs. adventurer
First we’ll start off with this. (Monipulator vs. monipulator is still a bit out.)

Addition of rewards for monipulator vs. adventurer content
While these rewards will not be items you can't live without when you are an adventurer, we’d like to prepare some rewards that the adventurers participating in this content can aim for.

Battle balance adjustments
We’ll be making adjustments mainly based on PvP.

Instincts adjustments
We’ll be making adjustments so you’ll be able to consider a bit more which instincts you’d like to use. While the values will be somewhat small, we’d like to add a bit more accuracy to a good amount of instincts.

Unlocking job abilities for monster’s main job
To give you an idea, if a monster’s main job is warrior they’ll be able to use Provoke, and if a monster’s main job is black mage they’ll be able to use Elemental Seal.

Adjustments Phase 2

Expansion of areas
We’ll be supplementing portions where there are gaps in recommended levels.

Unlocking of monster species

Unlocking of monsters to go along with special events
For example, we’d like to make it possible to obtain certain monster sub-species that appear during New Years.

Adjustments Phase 3

Expansion of areas

Unlocking of monster species

Addition of Monstrosity-specific content
The main thing we are planning for this is content that you can play as a party.
Specifically, content for leveling up, battle content, and content where you can compete as teams.

If you have any content you’d like to see besides the above, we’d love to hear your ideas!

At the current stage the plans are still up in the air, but we are thinking it would be a lot of fun to do things like a team battle or battle royale type of thing where you can have fun while gaining experience points, even if the amount you receive is not that high.

Forming parties as monipulators
The content you can play as monipulators will be Monstrosity-specific content.
In regular field areas, hunting down monsters at a fast pace and doing other activities would largely affect players, so we’d like to create content where you can play as a party to your heart’s desire without having to worry about these kind of things.

Skillchains as monipulators
To go along with being able to party as monipulators, we would also like to make it possible to execute skillchains.

We’ll be looking into all of the other feedback we have been receiving in regards to magic, battle preparation time, and other aspects. Once there is any movement on this we will be sure to let you know!

And on a short-side note...

And Camate, manage to unlock Behemoth yet?
Well, I'm already a behemoth, so I believe the real question is -- did you manage to unlock Camate yet?

Kriegsgott

08-16-2013, 06:27 AM

Karbuncle

08-16-2013, 06:46 AM

Futan

08-16-2013, 07:58 AM

Unlocking job abilities for monster’s main job
To give you an idea, if a monster’s main job is warrior they’ll be able to use Provoke, and if a monster’s main job is black mage they’ll be able to use Elemental Seal.

Does anyone else NOT want this? I mean, I don't want to basically just be a normal player running around dressed as a monster. It just becomes kind of a stupid gimmick for PvP at that point.

Catmato

08-16-2013, 09:44 AM

Does anyone else NOT want this? I mean, I don't want to basically just be a normal player running around dressed as a monster. It just becomes kind of a stupid gimmick for PvP at that point.

I concur.

Also, it's odd to me that you can still catch aggro while monipulating. Mobs don't attack each other normally, why are they attacking me?

Demon6324236

08-16-2013, 09:49 AM

Does anyone else NOT want this? I mean, I don't want to basically just be a normal player running around dressed as a monster. It just becomes kind of a stupid gimmick for PvP at that point.Don't get me wrong I enjoy Monstrosity, but... Isn't that what it is already? We just have not got the PvP part yet. Right now we are just a monster running around using monster TP moves & spells to the correlating job, if they add JAs, we will have JAs to use too, but really I can not see it turning the event from special to mediocre, its fun now, it would be fun with JAs, if anything my complain is that no normal monsters use JAs, but at that same time no normal Bee casts Phalanx, so that argument is a little weak.

Karbuncle

08-16-2013, 10:04 AM

Does anyone else NOT want this? I mean, I don't want to basically just be a normal player running around dressed as a monster. It just becomes kind of a stupid gimmick for PvP at that point.

I personally love playing THF/THF, WAR/WAR, and MNK/MNK jobs that make up the majority of the jobs available right now Auto-Attacking nonstop for hours on end with a weak weaponskill randomly tossed in. Mage/Combo classes catch a break but personally I like the idea of JA's tossed in. Souleater for instance would be devastating to the mob as well as whoever it hit.

Anyway, No, it doesn't become a PVP Gimmick at that point, if it was going to be one it would be it because of its premise, MvM and MvP, not because it added Job Abilities. I personally always suspected we would eventually get 2hours for NM-types, which would be awesome. I didn't expect Provoke and such but personally i welcome the idea if only because I WANT COMPOSURE GDI.

*ahem*, That aside, Monsters still operate differently than players, and Monsters who would use Berserk would decimate their defense, So its like if players would use it now they're taking their life into their hands with it. Defender would help but you also remember these effects can be dispelled, and if its one v many its more likely they will, so they'd be more strategic like... Berserk > WS and hope they don't stun you (Or equip Resist Stun instincts and make yourself immune!!)

Point being I do want this, Auto-Attacking ad-infinum on WAR/WAR classes is boring as hell, and at least being able to Berserk or something to speed it up would make it a little more involved. Adds more strategy to the players in PvM too, as If they saw it ready Elemental Seal they'd know a big nuke was coming, or if it used Berserk a big WS. Personally you can make yourself immune to stun through instincts, It would cause some more strategy in fights, especially with a human mind behind the monster. I support the idea of job Abilities. thoroughly.

Edyth

08-16-2013, 11:40 AM

When you say battle adjustments centered on PvP, I hear "weakening monipulators, making leveling up slower and the solo content less fun."

If you do mean weakening monipulators, can it please ONLY be in PvP? Please don't gimp monsters outside of PvP.

Also, I'm unhappy to see no mention of monipulators being able to open doors in the future.

Lastly, please implement areas in order of usefulness instead of by expansion. For example, Ifrit's Cauldron is useless for leveling, and Uggalepih, and Den of Rancor too. Those three places should never be introduced in Monstrosity.

On the other hand, areas like Lufaise Meadows, Misareaux Coast, and both Riverne areas would be extremely useful (yes, please let monipulators go through spatial displacements).

Karbuncle

08-16-2013, 11:55 AM

Ifrit's Cauldron is Ballin for exp if you know the right area :o, Goblins are squishy as hell. Beyond that, places like those are real good for the reason that

A) A lot of people think like you and believe they're useless for exp, so they'll be significantly less crowded for people like me who know the good camps in them.

B)... I don't have a B, A covers it pretty thoroughly.

I'd personally love ToAU Zones, I wanna punch Colibri.

Karbuncle

08-16-2013, 12:13 PM

Oh, Also some suggestion I thought of.

Can ya add more name affixes? Some examples:

Body (to go with "Fang)
Scale
Skin
Hide
Fur
Claw
Tail
Wing

Elements
Flame
Blazing
Frost
Frigid
Thunderous
Molten

Metals
Silver
Golden/Gold

Colors/etc
Scarlet
Blood
Sun (to opposite Moon)

Some examples of these combinations could be

Golden Sun Ladybug
Blood Claw Tiger
Scarlet Fur Ram
Blazing Fang Raptor
Blazing Claw Tiger
etcetc

Mnejing

08-16-2013, 12:14 PM

Well, I'm already a behemoth, so I believe the real question is -- did you manage to unlock Camate yet?

Can we unlock Okipuit instead? Having unlocked Bayohne and Hvinire was a mesmerising experience.

*psst test server event, please! :D

Asymptotic

08-16-2013, 01:04 PM

The lack of partying for the purpose of levelling up is truly, extremely disheartening. Monstrosity is great content, but this is a multiplayer game and Monstrosity dictates that I spend many, many, many hours alone and unable to spend time with my friends.

If you're really worried about rapid annihilation of monsters, perhaps allow us to team up with one other monster?

I think it's pretty naive in the first place to think that monster experience parties would actually negatively impact anyone, though. The one level sync party left on all servers anywhere seemed to be doing fine with 25 monsters killing enemies in Qufim.

detlef

08-16-2013, 01:08 PM

Also, I'm unhappy to see no mention of monipulators being able to open doors in the future.Only raptors will be able to open doors.

Infidi

08-16-2013, 05:13 PM

Only raptors will be able to open doors.

Clever girl...

Louispv

08-17-2013, 02:41 AM

Only raptors will be able to open doors.

Where can't you open doors? The ones in Hororuto work just fine.

Mnejing

08-17-2013, 02:47 AM

Where can't you open doors? The ones in Hororuto work just fine.

Garliege and Oztroja are primarily the ones that can't be opened.

Khiinroye

08-17-2013, 03:35 AM

As far as zones, Sanctuary of Zi'Tah, Eastern Altepa Desert, Western Altepa Desert, Cape Teriggan, Valley of Sorrow, Lufaise Meadows, Misareaux Coast, Uleguerand Range and Bibiki Bay would be a good start for helping large monsters to level and expanding options. They're all Zilart and CoP areas, which really should be assumed that everyone has at this point.

Meyi

08-17-2013, 04:28 AM

Not feedback, but does anyone remember this thread?

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=112423271053204871&h=50

Okipuit

08-17-2013, 05:49 AM

We followed-up with the main monipulator, Ryota Iwagami, and received some updates to your feedback.

I understand the idea of random spawns but can you please make the locations it can put you dependent on the level you are at?

We'd like to monitor Monstrosity conditions a bit more before we make adjustments to the spawn locations; however, we are looking into extending the gestation time when there is no PvP.

- Make gestation last until I click it off to cancel it. Because being dumped in a high level area of a low level zone sucks, especially on monsters with movespeed penalties. Unlimited sneak/invis isn't overpowered when you only get it once & it's not on your adventurer self.

As mentioned above, we are looking into extending the gestation time, so this should help out when you are in high level areas and need to evade monsters.

Unlock RoTZ and CoP Zones soon - This is sorely needed. I mean, I enjoy exploring the original zones, But Its getting repetitive and it gets real hard to level around 60. Opening up some fresh new zones would be great. Especially needed for Larger Enemies.

As mentioned in the post from Iwagami about future adjustments, priority is first going to be placed on adding adding areas where large monsters can level up at high levels. Once this is completed, we will start looking into adding Zilart and Promathia areas. :)

Infamy caps at 10000 & will not go any further until spent.

The infamy cap is actually related to the requirements for becoming an NM. In order to become a true NM, you'll need to break through the cap. The infamy cap can be broken while playing in PvP mode.

We'll continue to discuss your feedback with the development team, so keep it coming!

Meyi

08-17-2013, 05:58 AM

Thanks Okipuit for the feedback! I'm excited to hear about gestation being increased. <3 I like the idea of it being permanent until clicked off as well, even if it's just for MvE.

Could we possibly have HP and MP regeneration increased at a quicker rate as well? For the low levels it's fine, and EXP comes in quick enough to not need to rest, but higher up (30+ anyway) it seems to slow down. Tremendously so.

Karbuncle

08-17-2013, 06:39 AM

Tend to agree, thanks for all the info. I'm assuming for Big enemies we'll probably see Cape Terrigan soon, and i wouldn't rule out zones like Altepa.

Really hoping for this stuff in the End of August Update ^^.

Also... Good to know Infamy won't go past 10k Unless you're doing PVP, It helps us to understand it.

QUESTION <3: do you plan to do something to combat Item Levels, Cause how easily people kill Tojil now, I don't think us Monsters will stand a real chance when we'll be getting hit with 10k+ Resolutions with all this overpowered I.level stuff :|...

Examples, Nerf ilvl stuff in PvMonstrosity? Or perhaps are we going to be buffed above and beyond the normal NMs available? Are you going to raise the Level cap of Monsters to 120+ Later down the line?

Trumpy

08-17-2013, 08:46 AM

Bamph

08-17-2013, 09:08 AM

PvP would be cool but i really hope you give us the option to flag ourselves open for PvP, and be able to turn off that flag should we not want to PvP. When im not in the mood to pvp players and i just want to level I want to be left to it and not be constantly killed by players.

It will probably work in the way that you flag it on in your home beach... That would prevent people from saying "I don't want to anymore" when they're losing.

MDenham

08-17-2013, 01:25 PM

As mentioned in the post from Iwagami about future adjustments, priority is first going to be placed on adding adding areas where large monsters can level up at high levels. Once this is completed, we will start looking into adding Zilart and Promathia areas. :)I would actually recommend making these additions at the same time, simply because the Zilart/Promathia areas already include several areas that would work well for leveling large monsters post-60. (Ro'Maeve, Quicksand Caves, Bibiki Bay, and Uleguerand Range come immediately to mind as areas that seem like they'd fit large monsters easily, especially the latter as it is the home of buffalo to begin with. I may be wrong about Ro'Maeve having room for large monsters, however.)

The alternatives I can think of at this time are either allowing large monsters into more cramped areas - which runs the risk of rendering issues and possibly stuck characters - or adding monsters to certain areas that are already large-monster accessible, which seems like a stopgap measure that has potentially unintended side-effects for people who are not, for whatever reason, participating in Monstrosity. (Similar to the addition of lv80+ monsters in low-level zones, only probably not as drastic in effect because it'd more likely be lv65+ monsters in zones that currently top out at lv55ish for the highest-level monsters.)

Babekeke

08-17-2013, 03:17 PM

QUESTION <3: do you plan to do something to combat Item Levels, Cause how easily people kill Tojil now, I don't think us Monsters will stand a real chance when we'll be getting hit with 10k+ Resolutions with all this overpowered I.level stuff :|...

Examples, Nerf ilvl stuff in PvMonstrosity? Or perhaps are we going to be buffed above and beyond the normal NMs available? Are you going to raise the Level cap of Monsters to 120+ Later down the line?

Remember of course that when we play as monsters, we won't be holding our TP for no apparent reason, until we are below 25%. We'll also be able to pick the most deadly TP move, and possibly even ignore the normal enmity rules? Go and kill the whms and schs then see how well the DDs do^^

Karbuncle

08-17-2013, 04:01 PM

True, But, When you're rocking 20k HP, Its not going to take long for them to kill you, You'll probably not even see the number 200% on your TP Bar by the time you're dead if the DD are any good lol.

Demon6324236

08-17-2013, 05:18 PM

Even if it works under PvP rules of engagement as I assume it will, Provoke will simply become a must have in Monstosity, as it will force the Mon-player to attack the Provoker, so far as gear goes and levels, if you remember right, we are all normal monsters right now, we are not classified as NMs, so our HP will likely grow in our NM forms I would think. So far as holding TP goes, that's not to bad either, after all, if I am fighting my LS as a, say, Tojil like mob, they are smart enough to bring Stunners to take out Lahar, the same goes for if I pick a Wyrm & spam Spike Flail, now if we make ourselves immune to stun, then it could get interesting, or boring, how fun is it to fight a mob who only uses a single move over and over again to kill you? In my opinion, its fairly boring, and its annoying as hell when its a cheap move like Lahar which causes Weakness or even worse, a move like Oblivion's Mantle from Gallu type mobs.

Edyth

08-17-2013, 05:50 PM

Only raptors will be able to open doors.

Yes! Real raptors open doors; why can't I?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzIVwpCcgkM

Ironically, I was playing as "Old Mr. Raptor" when I first raged about doors. I happened to be trapped in Gusgen Mines, unable to proceed further in.

Anyway, Okipuit! Can you see if the "main monipulator" will tease another HNM for us?

Ferromantoise and Naraka have been teased, and I think a Hadhayosh-type behemoth as well. Can we have another? Perhaps... a Naakual? I want Old Mr. Raptor to graduate to Big Old Gabbrath :cool:

Karbuncle

08-17-2013, 05:57 PM

Well, I'm capable of opening doors in Zvahl and Oztroja as a monster, even the ones that required levers (of note, the 4 lever door in Oztroja, the Gates in Zvahl Keep).

Krysten

08-17-2013, 07:07 PM

i too LOVE monstority its All ive been playing tho the Area for big guys needs to expand soon Also i really want to see Partying soon! its a bummer not being able to show off monsters to people so id love party to happen!

what abut monster abilities will those been gettin some? maybe even some Monster Merits down the line. partying with human players would be funny too.

how about "Runic stations" placed within some areas like, lets say Qufim if a Large monster attempt to go into a Cave and go past one the runic point it will either become a human or will be teleported randomly, thus making it a large monster coudl go into an area just not thru a tunnel.

Zarchery

08-17-2013, 09:35 PM

I just got around to dipping my toe in the Monstrosity pool late yesterday evening just before I went to bed, but I really like it so far.

Fynlar

08-17-2013, 10:17 PM

It needs some rewards (and I'm not talking about the kind of reward that is relevant only to Monstrosity), or at least some kind of indication that we will eventually be able to make use of this system to benefit our actual characters in some way.

As it is, just beating up trash mobs and not even being able to get things like beastmen's seals for my efforts has me wondering why I'm even bothering. If I wanted to get nothing, I could accomplish the same thing just standing around in my MH.

Vriska_Serket

08-18-2013, 01:17 AM

Beastmen's Seals in 2013?

Hashmalum

08-18-2013, 05:43 AM

It would be nice to be able to turn off the ground-shaking effect for large monsters in Monstrosity. Actually, it would be nice to be able to turn it off for monsters anywhere, but it is especially bad in Monstrosity when the monster you are playing shakes the ground with every step. I understand that this can cause motion-sickness in some people.

Krysten

08-18-2013, 07:46 AM

no the groundshakiong is awesome leave it in lol motion sickness ppl can go play a small creature lol

Krysten

08-18-2013, 08:04 AM

booom boom boom its very dramatic - Jurassic park

Fynlar

08-18-2013, 09:35 AM

Beastmen's Seals in 2013?

Kclub is still valuable (on my server, its value is actually going up) and they are still convertable into other things.

Karbuncle

08-18-2013, 10:46 AM

Oh, Another suggestion! With the Discriptors, Can you allow us to remove the Species name from it?

For instance, Right now, You're always "Somethingsomething Specie", Example Zodiac Fang Tiger. I was curious if we could remove the Specie name as an option, to become simply "Zodiac Fang", or as another example, "Lumber Jack Beetle" minus Beetle.

Would be nice if we could change the position of the Specie name too. So we can place it between or before First and second Descriptors.

Karbuncle

08-18-2013, 01:03 PM

it dawns on me. When it comes to Partying with other monsters, can you stop observing balance or whatever? I play an MMO to interact with others. Soloing, no matter how much easier, is super boring lol.

Limit party with monsters to Maybe 3, But exp parties as Monsters would be really welcome. let us party in a Moblin Maze Mongers capacity... Anything to stem the monotony of exping alone. PLEASE :)

Most people i ask say soloing is the most likely reason this event will start to die. People don't like playing alone forever, it gets boring and stale... and everyone I've talked to says they look forward to partying, and hope its implemented quickly.

Babekeke

08-18-2013, 05:13 PM

I'm intrigued by GEO Instinct. Has anyone unlocked this, and can they confirm that it does in fact give 10%HP? I assume that it would have given MP, and that it's possibly a mis-type in the translation.

Karbuncle

08-18-2013, 05:37 PM

Its HP. Geo's are known for being close to enemies for their Auras, having high HP/PDT is more part of the job than their MP pools for most of what they're used for... Makes a sense XD. I think.

Louispv

08-19-2013, 03:06 AM

Babekeke

08-19-2013, 02:21 PM

Why does Cocoon only last 15 seconds? It lasts for 3 minutes when normal crawlers use it, or even 1 minute when a BLU casts it, but it's the only useful move crawlers have, and the short duration has taken even that away.

If a wild crawler spends 100 tp to get a 3 minute cocoon, so should we. A shorter duration for BLU's makes sense as all they need is a handful of mp, but at 100 tp, what use is a 15 second buff you could never hope to use more than 1/5 of the time?

Having stayed in crawler's nest levelling up from 40-62, I can say for certain that when mobs use the move it does not last for 3 mins. At least not with any great regularity. I usually see it wear off after 5-6 hits, so I hold off on using a TP move until I see that I'm hitting for normal amounts again.

Demon6324236

08-19-2013, 05:23 PM

Even if it was only 1 minute, it would mean it would actually be good enough to use. Some moves seem well balanced while others are balanced horribly. Cocoon is one of the horrible ones, 15 seconds is bad, very bad, kinda like how some TPs are weaker than others but cost more TP and get learned at later levels. As much as I really do like this event, admittedly, I understand balance is going to be an issue, I mean, you have hundreds of families of mobs, to balance them all perfectly on all of their TP moves can not be expected. The only thing is, some of these mobs should have been easier to spot than others, like this one.

In the end, so far as feedback goes, I think they need to look at buffing moves a little closer, like this one, because they sometimes last to short of a time it seems. Also, some damage moves need to have a look taken at them as well, some are much to weak for their level, and are worse in every way than ones that have come before it seems. If these two issues are fixed with TP based attacks though, I think balance for simply playing as a monster, would be fine.

Fynlar

08-19-2013, 08:16 PM

Here's another suggestion:

Make it so that Relinquish is only stopped by direct mob attacks. It's annoying to not even be able to leave the zone just because you have some stupid 1/tic poison on you that won't go away for several minutes and have no means of healing (on most monsters)

Byrth

08-19-2013, 08:43 PM

Karbuncle

08-19-2013, 09:05 PM

Fynlar

08-19-2013, 09:11 PM

Good idea, But you can always kill yourself. (no joke)

Even that is pretty annoying to do when you have more HP in the 40s than an Abyssean MNK at 99.

Damane

08-20-2013, 01:09 AM

I am enjoying monstrosity alot atm, i am very eager to see what you devs will do with Party play for it. Cant wait for it!

Really looking forward to implemented events/battles etc. for monstrosity.

Babekeke

08-20-2013, 01:30 AM

Demon6324236

08-20-2013, 02:05 AM

You should be able to access it, it was in the list of areas SE gave us, and its listed on BG as well as I know a few people who said they leveled their in my LS, I myself have not, highest level mob right now is a level 49 Lizard. If you can not find it under Ranfaure then hit the + key or whatever you use to enlarge your chat log I assume.

Byrth

08-20-2013, 02:37 AM

Can anyone confirm the info from BG wiki site for me please? It recommends going to Bost Obliette at level 52... At level 62 I still can't access that zone. Anyone reached 99 able to say if you can ever access it?

Zone access is restricted for Medium and Large body monsters. Neither can access Boston Omelette.

Use Toraimarai Canal instead to get to 66 or 67, then stack all your Acc instincts and go to Zeruhn Mines. It will be slow, but it's the only way until they add more zones.

Babekeke

08-20-2013, 03:04 AM

Zone access is restricted for Medium and Large body monsters. Neither can access Boston Omelette.

Use Toraimarai Canal instead to get to 66 or 67, then stack all your Acc instincts and go to Zeruhn Mines. It will be slow, but it's the only way until they add more zones.

Ah ok, it's due to my size (sheep).

Toramorai is exactly where I went, but since they've moved all the mobs about I'm not entirely sure where the mobs are that I need to fight. I spent about an hour in there slowly moving around, agroing a load of DC mobs, then stopping to kill them all, hit a dead end, run back and do it again. Covered about 50% of the map so far >.>

And yeah, zehrun at 67 was my plan as well. ALL I have for acc so far is DRG and THF (well, TA and DEX), but I should be able to replace war or drk with rng by the time I get 6 more levels.

Eliseo

08-20-2013, 03:33 AM

Magic spells
I received some additional responses about this while I was in the midst of preparing a reply, and I will be posting in the coming days. It's going to take me a little bit.

We going to hear anything about this soon?

Shinalia

08-20-2013, 07:39 AM

Unlocking of monsters to go along with special events

I have two words: Twinkling Treant

You would have all of my love and happy vibes if that legendary Christmas mob became an unlockable skin.

Babekeke

08-20-2013, 02:14 PM

I have two words: Twinkling Treant

You would have all of my love and happy vibes if that legendary Christmas mob became an unlockable skin.

Not Mr. Hankie?

Hashmalum

08-20-2013, 04:10 PM

Not Mr. Hankie?Just imagine a Santa hat on the brown lizard. Close enough!

Hashmalum

08-20-2013, 04:26 PM

2) Certain TP moves need to be adjusted, like:
- Sharp Sting and Leaf Dagger are both highly inaccurate because (as far as I can tell) they rely on Ranged Accuracy which is unaffected by Instincts (like DRG and RNG Instinct)
The poison effect on Leaf Dagger also has a blink-and-you'll-miss it duration even if the attack lands. As I recall the duration of certain poison effects was adjusted downward because of how low-level players got killed by lingering poison even after they killed the mob; however, rather than doing the sensible thing and making poison duration scale with level (as was asked for at the time), there was a brainless meat axe across-the-board nerf instead. Still, it's not too late to go back and do what should have been done long ago. The dev team's mistakes are not sacred.

- Sheep Song is very magically inaccurateSo is Dream Flower. I have never once seen it land on anything even remotely worth sleeping. I'm not sure how these are supposed to stand a snowball's chance in hell of landing on other players in PvP when they can't even touch normal XP mobs.

Kristal

08-21-2013, 12:10 AM

I haven't done Monstrocity content yet, none of the monsters are cool. I want an acrolith, iron giant, caturae, chariot, automaton, ghrah, etc ... I'm a puppetmaster, not a sheepherder! If it doesn't click or whirl, it's not for this girl...

Babekeke

08-21-2013, 01:48 AM

So is Dream Flower. I have never once seen it land on anything even remotely worth sleeping. I'm not sure how these are supposed to stand a snowball's chance in hell of landing on other players in PvP when they can't even touch normal XP mobs.

I can't speak for dream flower, but Sheep Song tends to land on everything that doesn't have a native resistance to sleep, or the element (dark?), as long as the mob isn't higher than IT--. The main issue with Sheep Song is that if you sleep 3+ mobs, 1 will almost always awaken within 10 seconds. Very rare that any will see out a full minute, even with DC mobs.

Demon6324236

08-21-2013, 06:58 AM

Arcana or GTFOI know how ya feel, but at the same time, its still fun even without those kinda mobs in my opinion, couldn't hurt to at least try, never know what they will require to unlock the others. ;x

Trisscar

08-21-2013, 08:03 AM

Snip.

Y'all can feel free to toss PvP junkies under the bus for all I care.

Trisscar

08-21-2013, 08:34 AM

I know how ya feel, but at the same time, its still fun even without those kinda mobs in my opinion, couldn't hurt to at least try, never know what they will require to unlock the others. ;x

I figure it's only a mater of time before they add arcana mobs to monstrosity. I'm looking forward to that but the requirements are likely to be absurd, especially if they add in Khimeria as a playable mob.

Kristal

08-21-2013, 04:06 PM

I figure it's only a mater of time before they add arcana mobs to monstrosity. I'm looking forward to that but the requirements are likely to be absurd, especially if they add in Khimeria as a playable mob.
Arcana would be nice, but I do hope they don't forget about automatons, luminions and archaic machinery... those are the cool ones, remember!

Trisscar

08-21-2013, 04:44 PM

Arcana would be nice, but I do hope they don't forget about automatons, luminions and archaic machinery... those are the cool ones, remember!

Indeed. I can't argue with this.

Splinters

08-21-2013, 05:43 PM

I was excited about Monstrosity until I saw it was a closed system. One can't get drops, join (human) friends in missions or battles. It's a grind where all you obtain is higher level monsters to grind with. Maybe the devs plan to allow Monsters to join the rest of the world in future updates but as it is now, no thank you.

hiko

08-21-2013, 11:08 PM

[waste of dev time]
add monster emotes !!
[/waste of dev time]

Trisscar

08-22-2013, 01:42 AM

Arcana would be nice, but I do hope they don't forget about automatons, luminions and archaic machinery... those are the cool ones, remember!

Now I think about it, I think it would be neat if they added animated weapons (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Animated_Weapons). They could be unlocked by spending infamy and trading items that satellites drop... And at higher levels you would be able to use the relevant relic weapon skill.

Aknom

08-22-2013, 02:54 PM

My idea to continue Monstrosity is somehow tie Pankration / Monstrosity together. I posted on the forums how I think it should go!

Karbuncle

08-22-2013, 03:58 PM

You guys know if you do monstrosity, and you sort the monsters you can be by Species... It shows every specie Family they'll eventually add right?

Acrolith are there (Aiacana or something), Luminians... Every Family Archetype is listed.

Traxus

08-26-2013, 07:42 AM

The exp tnl curve needs a huge reduction in this system. Leveling things 1-50ish is fine, but it becomes an incredibly unfun, time consuming, and repetitive grind at higher levels that gets worse and worse the higher you go. Mobs already take longer to kill the higher you go (more hp proportionate to the damage you do), we don't need crazy tnls compounded on top of that.

Camate

08-28-2013, 03:29 AM

Greetings,

Ryota Iwagami has provided a couple more responses to feedback received for Monstrosity, so please check it out!

Thanks for all the feedback.

Based on what we have been receiving, I'd like to respond to a couple of them.

Gestation
When teleporting to an area from the Feretory in your monster form, we've been hearing comments that it's easily to be killed when you spawn in an area where there are monsters that are higher level than you. Due to this, we'll be making adjustments so the gestation effect will wear off only when you remove it. However, this will be limited to times when PvP is not active only.

Large monsters
We've received feedback that when moving around as large monsters such as treants or adamantoise, the screen shakes and it's making people feel sick.

While we are continuing to look into a specific method for this, we would like to make it so you can toggle this shaking on and off for your screen.

More special characteristics for monsters
We'd like to have monsters that possess more special characteristics, such as Gnoles, which would receive effects depending on the lunar phase, etc.

I apologize that there are a lot of suggestions that I haven’t been able to respond to, but I'll be checking up on each of them, so please let me know if there is anything else you are curious about.

Karbuncle

08-28-2013, 10:04 AM

All good knews, especially gestation, one of my biggest worries!

Outside of what he listed, all of my other concerns are already planned future adjustments (More areas, More mobs, Party play)...

I thought you could turn off the shaking by disabling Footstep effects?

Edyth

08-28-2013, 02:57 PM

Thank you for the gestation and footstep updates.

The moon phase concerns me. For example, will I go to the feretory wanting to level up my wamoura, but then when I look at the moon phase, I realize that it's X phase and my STR and DEX are being penalized, or that lizards are being powered up substantionally by the moon phase but vermin are unaffected, or INT is being boosted so much that I should level up a black mage monster instead?

In other words, I never want the moon phase to discourage me from playing the monster I want to play, and the three above possibilities (penalties to important stats, bonuses to monsters that I don't feel like playing as right now, and bonuses being so good that I might as well only level up monsters during moon phases that especially benefit them) would do that.

Edit: Also, please comment on the door situation. I can't be the only person who wants to open doors as a monipulator. I've seen some people claim they've been able to open doors in certain dungeons, but I haven't experienced that. So far, doors have stonewalled me in Gusgen Mines and prevented access to certain monsters in Fei'Yin.

Demon6324236

08-28-2013, 03:05 PM

Special effects from moon phases are a bad idea, please don't do this...

Ophannus

08-28-2013, 03:07 PM

In other words, I never want the moon phase to discourage me from playing the monster I want to play, and the three above possibilities

Think they were referring to specific mobs which are already affected by moon phase normally. Like Gnoles.

Demon6324236

08-28-2013, 03:31 PM

Even things like that shouldn't really be effected by moon phase, all it does it mean certain mobs are better to play or worse to play than others depending on the time of day or where the moon is, which to me, is a stupid mechanic to base our monsters off of.

Zarchery

08-28-2013, 07:32 PM

I'm glad they're making Gestation last until it wears off. I had a lot of trouble in the low 40s (or maybe mid 30s, I forget) spawning in Fei'Yin, far away from the monsters I needed to target. I kept getting killed trying to get the the Beaucedine zone line. I had to die and respawn probably half a dozen times before I made it.

A similar problem was when I hit the high 40s in Zvahl Keep. I'd spawn near the ahriman on the 2nd floor, but these were Decent Challenge, and I wanted to get to the T-IT demons and ahriman closer to the Throne Room. A short gestation meant I'd have to spend time fighting my way through a bunch of low value mobs.

So this is a good improvement.

Babekeke

08-29-2013, 01:55 AM

Edit: Also, please comment on the door situation. I can't be the only person who wants to open doors as a monipulator. I've seen some people claim they've been able to open doors in certain dungeons, but I haven't experienced that. So far, doors have stonewalled me in Gusgen Mines and prevented access to certain monsters in Fei'Yin.

In Gusgen Mines, you can certainly operate the levers to get from the low-level area to the high-level area. I seem to remember that I couldn't open the door from the other side though, but I just assumed that this was supposed to be the case, even when not a monipulator. Is it not? Been a while since I had to do it.

Edit: Actually, I opened a door (with the lever), ran through, checked the map then ran back through it to try a different door. I can't remember if I opened the door from the other side or if it just stayed open for long enough for me to get back through it.

Edyth

08-29-2013, 05:21 AM

In Gusgen Mines, you can certainly operate the levers to get from the low-level area to the high-level area. I seem to remember that I couldn't open the door from the other side though, but I just assumed that this was supposed to be the case, even when not a monipulator. Is it not? Been a while since I had to do it.

Edit: Actually, I opened a door (with the lever), ran through, checked the map then ran back through it to try a different door. I can't remember if I opened the door from the other side or if it just stayed open for long enough for me to get back through it.

I tried the levers. They do nothing. I think people are just making shit up now.

Edit: unless it was an announced update, that is. I haven't tried since the late August update, but I know Fei'Yin's doors are still sealed.

Catmato

08-29-2013, 07:15 AM

Gestation
When teleporting to an area from the Feretory in your monster form, we've been hearing comments that it's easily to be killed when you spawn in an area where there are monsters that are higher level than you. Due to this, we'll be making adjustments so the gestation effect will wear off only when you remove it. However, this will be limited to times when PvP is not active only.
Solution:
Make mobs not aggressive when Monipulating. Mobs don't attack other mobs normally, why do they do it when we're at the helm?

Karbuncle

08-29-2013, 12:45 PM

I tried the levers. They do nothing. I think people are just making shit up now.

Edit: unless it was an announced update, that is. I haven't tried since the late August update, but I know Fei'Yin's doors are still sealed.

The only doors i've encountered so far that i could not open were the doors in Fei'Yin (the tiny little doors leading to the dolls/etc). I've opened every important door in both Castle Zvahl and Castle Oztroja... including the door that requires the lever password and the door that requires you to pick the right lever.

There are doors we can't open that are annoying (Garlaige...) But most if not all Lever doors work fine, and even doors you click to open like the ones in Zvahl work fine. knowing this from personal experience

Edit: Remembered off the top of my head I'm not sure i ever made it to the "Password" Door to the Yagudo Avatar. So i can't confirm that one.

Hashmalum

08-29-2013, 02:03 PM

The only doors i've encountered so far that i could not open were the doors in Fei'Yin (the tiny little doors leading to the dolls/etc). I've opened every important door in both Castle Zvahl and Castle Oztroja... including the door that requires the lever password and the door that requires you to pick the right lever.

There are doors we can't open that are annoying (Garlaige...) But most if not all Lever doors work fine, and even doors you click to open like the ones in Zvahl work fine. knowing this from personal experience

Edit: Remembered off the top of my head I'm not sure i ever made it to the "Password" Door to the Yagudo Avatar. So i can't confirm that one.The yagudo password door works fine.

Annalise

08-30-2013, 04:31 AM

When we get to Avians, I want unlockable chocobos.

For skins:
Yellow could be WAR/WAR
White could be WHM/WAR
Red could be RDM/WAR
Black could be BLM/WAR

...and so on.

How awesome would that be? Different forms could even have a unique TP move, like Choco Meteor or something.

Louispv

08-30-2013, 01:09 PM

Waiting on something with BLU and BRD spells myself, honestly. If there's gonna be monster parties soon, we need buffers. And of course a BLU monster would just confuse the hell out of the normies.

Camate

08-31-2013, 04:16 AM

Mnejing

08-31-2013, 04:24 AM

Will monsters such as ladybugs be affected by night/day then?

detlef

08-31-2013, 04:34 AM

Waiting on something with BLU and BRD spells myself, honestly. If there's gonna be monster parties soon, we need buffers. And of course a BLU monster would just confuse the hell out of the normies.Unless they tweak the mechanics, BRD will suck with no instruments and no subjob.

Okipuit

08-31-2013, 05:04 AM

Also, please comment on the door situation. I can't be the only person who wants to open doors as a monipulator. I've seen some people claim they've been able to open doors in certain dungeons, but I haven't experienced that. So far, doors have stonewalled me in Gusgen Mines and prevented access to certain monsters in Fei'Yin.

To clarify the monstrosity door situation in dungeons, we’ve made it so you can gain access through doors that we have flagged as okay to be opened, but if there are doors that cannot be opened that are posing problems, please let us know and we’ll look into it.

Demon6324236

08-31-2013, 05:48 AM

Greetings,

I'd like to quickly clarify that the lunar phase effects would not be all monsters. This was an error in the original post, which I corrected. The plan is to introduce more monsters that have special properties, and one example are Gnoles who would receive special effects depending on the lunar phase. Apologies for the confusion!That's better, but still, it will be an annoyance to someone like myself who wants to play a monster and have full access to everything that monster can do while they play as it. I believe I would find it more annoying if I enjoy playing as a Gnole standing, but not as much on all 4s, and at the same time were unable to freely change between the two. Or even worse, if I couldn't during the correct moonphase either, and were stuck in whatever form I ended a battle in.

Helldemon

08-31-2013, 06:40 AM

Waiting on something with BLU and BRD spells myself, honestly. If there's gonna be monster parties soon, we need buffers. And of course a BLU monster would just confuse the hell out of the normies.

Could be waiting awhile, the only monsters that are blu/brd are beastmen, no?

MDenham

08-31-2013, 07:21 AM

Could be waiting awhile, the only monsters that are blu/brd are beastmen, no?As far as BRD, there are large-bird NMs that have that job, so that's a possibility there.

BLU is probably out of luck except as a special case on either flans or soulflayers, though.

Trumpy

08-31-2013, 07:38 AM

i got thru doors in gusgen jsut fine. I cant remember if i was able to hi tthe lever or if they just opened for me. one time i spawned beehind them adn i just went thru it.

Edyth

08-31-2013, 08:49 AM

To clarify the monstrosity door situation in dungeons, we’ve made it so you can gain access through doors that we have flagged as okay to be opened, but if there are doors that cannot be opened that are posing problems, please let us know and we’ll look into it.

Already making an epic montage of my monipulator failing to open doors. I reproduced the monipulator trap in Gusgen easily in my second feretory warp. I filmed three videos of my raptor failing to open every door (from both sides when possible) and lever in the mines. I'll edit them together later tonight and post on Youtube. But honestly, I shouldn't have to do this; anyone can do it. Maybe this is monipulator-specific to raptors, but I doubt it. I don't think any of these people claiming to have opened Gusgen doors really did.

Also, we need our "Pouch of weighted stones" to let us open banishing gates in Garlaige simply by clicking the door, which is how it functions in normal form. Currently, it does nothing as a MON. You cannot pretend the banishing gates are unproblematic.

Karbuncle

08-31-2013, 10:46 AM

I shouldn't have to do this; anyone can do it. Maybe this is monipulator-specific to raptors, but I doubt it. I don't think any of these people claiming to have opened Gusgen doors really did.

You know you really don't have to make a video for the Devs, a simple "Gusgens won't work" is enough to get them to look into Gusgen, Since they have "Flagged" doors as okay to open I imagine they can simply view the list and go "Oh hey, Gusgen isn't on here".

But yah, I'll say Gusgen and Garlaige should be added to list of approved doors ;x

Edyth

08-31-2013, 11:07 AM

You know you really don't have to make a video for the Devs, a simple "Gusgens won't work" is enough to get them to look into Gusgen, Since they have "Flagged" doors as okay to open I imagine they can simply view the list and go "Oh hey, Gusgen isn't on here".

But yah, I'll say Gusgen and Garlaige should be added to list of approved doors ;x

The reason I'm making videos is because so many people are essentially calling me a liar.

In any case, here are the videos of Gusgen door fails. The poor video quality is symbolic of Old Mr. Raptor's weariness of these doors.

TRAPTOR'd:
As you can see on the map, both possible routes to the weaker area of the mines are sealed, and the center path is on a different elevation. The maps on FFXIcyclopedia seem to suggest that there is no way to access the first area of the mines in this situation. Even if it is possible, we should really just be able to open these doors. Notice how I had to dash through the room of those 90+ beasties in a generally level 30~40 spot due to the locked door?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlBHKO5hJ0w

Not a single door or lever functions. I've seen people claiming to be able to use both as monipulators. It doesn't happen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1TIVbQyIHE (No matter how many times I click the levers/doors, the center one stays open, and the others stay closed. This blocks access to a mid-level portion of the mines)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy8Y5v-Di-c (very bad quality on this one, just illustrative purposes because this can be bypassed it seems by just walking around)

dasva

08-31-2013, 11:37 AM

Traxus

08-31-2013, 03:02 PM

Could be waiting awhile, the only monsters that are blu/brd are beastmen, no?

There are a number of bird and dragon types that sometimes have brd jobs; small birds, rocs, hippogryphs, dragons (the wingless undead looking ones), and puks. Very few of them actually cast songs (just a handful of roc and dragon nms I think?), but some of them are brds stat/trait wise the same way most crabs are plds.

The only non-mamool blu mobs have afaik been soulflayers, but that doesn't mean we won't see any outside those. Many of the current monstrosity skin/job combinations are not reflective of real mobs. IE: blm/war rabbit|lizard|wivre|antlion, blm/mnk korrigan, etc. They were just something SE put in to make those skins different. So I wouldn't be surprised if there's a blu flan/colibri/whatever eventually.

Umichi

09-01-2013, 02:16 AM

dasva

09-02-2013, 07:20 AM

Probably been mentioned before but why the heck does my monster get shield mastery and reprisal if it can't block. And why can't it block if pld mobs we fight can?

Edyth

09-02-2013, 09:18 AM

Probably been mentioned before but why the heck does my monster get shield mastery and reprisal if it can't block. And why can't it block if pld mobs we fight can?

I'm guessing because the PLD monsters you have in mind are shield-wielding beastmen, not shieldless beetles.

Traxus

09-02-2013, 10:47 AM

Most pld monsters (crabs, wamouras, etc.) can't block. The only type I know that might be able to (besides beastmen/whatever with shields) is admantoise, and even than that might just be guard or a random physical damage reduction trait SE gave them.

dasva

09-02-2013, 02:52 PM

I'm guessing because the PLD monsters you have in mind are shield-wielding beastmen, not shieldless beetles.

Actually I have adamantoise in mind. I guess it's probably more like some haxed guard really but they aren't mnk types so yeah. And it's not just pdt since it clear effects some hits but not others. Still begs the question why can I cast reprisal lol. Or why do my thf mobs still get TH and gilfinder when I can't get drops or gil

Kristal

09-02-2013, 07:24 PM

Actually I have adamantoise in mind. I guess it's probably more like some haxed guard really but they aren't mnk types so yeah. And it's not just pdt since it clear effects some hits but not others. Still begs the question why can I cast reprisal lol. Or why do my thf mobs still get TH and gilfinder when I can't get drops or gil

TH might be usefull later on, if they add unlockables requiring monster drops. It's pretty early in the content, after all.

Fynlar

09-02-2013, 10:25 PM

Chigoes attack is broken but has been declared not a bug even though it clearly is broken. Certainly provides a significant loss of game enjoyment to have 40 att at lvl 60. I suggest you actually consider it a bug and fix it

Again, it isn't a bug. Chigoe gives up some atk in order to hit faster.

If your atk is that low at 60, you're not putting on enough atk instincts.

dasva

09-03-2013, 07:19 AM

Again, it isn't a bug. Chigoe gives up some atk in order to hit faster.

If your atk is that low at 60, you're not putting on enough atk instincts.

Again you aren't listening. Forgetting how disproportionate the att lose to speed gain is... it is stacking additively . So -50% debuff means you are actually at -90% total. Add in bio and you have -100%. Please tell me what outside of the 2 +% att instincts (one of which gives slow completely destroying the point of using chigoe the other only being 5%) what I can do add to make -100% att not result in 0?

Right now on lvl 60 chigoe +145 att and +47 str and only am up to 242 att. Now I go fight a leech and my att goes down to 40 exactly... so nice try with use more attack instinct but it's completely wrong. Oh and to give you an idea of the difference my 61 scorpion has 545 att with those same instincts and only goes down to 317 att when fighting the leech. Almost 8 times as much att under the same exact situation.... so I'm not sure I'd call it gives up "some att"

Now you could say just don't fight mobs with attack down moves (though really the problem is almost as bad with mobs with +def moves too)... aside from the fact that that pretty much admits it's a huge problem what happens in mvm or mvp? When everyone who knows about this flaw will be able to render your chigoes physical dmg litterally down to 0? Kinda makes the monster unplayable

Also if chigoe is giving up some att to hit faster what exactly is it getting from not being able to use tp?

Umichi

09-04-2013, 12:47 AM

Again you aren't listening. Forgetting how disproportionate the att lose to speed gain is... it is stacking additively . So -50% debuff means you are actually at -90% total. Add in bio and you have -100%. Please tell me what outside of the 2 +% att instincts (one of which gives slow completely destroying the point of using chigoe the other only being 5%) what I can do add to make -100% att not result in 0?

Right now on lvl 60 chigoe +145 att and +47 str and only am up to 242 att. Now I go fight a leech and my att goes down to 40 exactly... so nice try with use more attack instinct but it's completely wrong. Oh and to give you an idea of the difference my 61 scorpion has 545 att with those same instincts and only goes down to 317 att when fighting the leech. Almost 8 times as much att under the same exact situation.... so I'm not sure I'd call it gives up "some att"

Now you could say just don't fight mobs with attack down moves (though really the problem is almost as bad with mobs with +def moves too)... aside from the fact that that pretty much admits it's a huge problem what happens in mvm or mvp? When everyone who knows about this flaw will be able to render your chigoes physical dmg litterally down to 0? Kinda makes the monster unplayable

Also if chigoe is giving up some att to hit faster what exactly is it getting from not being able to use tp?

Chigoes have always been a niche mob though... high evasion, low attack, DA, I think I've seen one TA before, the ability to be one shot by criticals.. I'm not surprised they take a big hit when they get womped with attack down at low levels of attack.. I mean attack down takes a huge hit on adventurers at lower levels compared to higher levels where players have the attack to spare

Demon6324236

09-04-2013, 01:33 AM

Chigoes have always been a niche mob though... high evasion, low attack, DA, I think I've seen one TA before, the ability to be one shot by criticals.. I'm not surprised they take a big hit when they get womped with attack down at low levels of attack.. I mean attack down takes a huge hit on adventurers at lower levels compared to higher levels where players have the attack to spareFirst off, if you want to make a monster with low attack, do the smart thing, make it have low attack. Don't incur a 40% natural attack penalty on the creature which is impossible to avoid. For one, it makes it so no matter what you put on it, the attack of instincts and such are lessened quite a bit, if I put DRK on, I get 30 instead of my 50 Attack.

Secondly, its not nearly as simple as you make it seem. Its not something you simply grow out of as you get to higher levels, in fact, it gets worse. At lower levels the amount you lose is not that high, due to your lower attack you normally have, while at higher levels, you need a nice bit of attack to be able to hurt the enemy even, and at higher levels, the enemies you fight have stronger Attack Down effects, such as Bio becoming Bio II or III. The problem mostly comes from the fact it stacks, if it were just a naturally low attack rather than a stacking effect, it would be fine, however, it doesn't work that way. If I normally should have 400 attack, I will have 240, now, if something casts Bio II on me, normally as a monster with 240 I would be reduced 10%, which would leave me at 216, instead, however instead, thanks to the stacking factor, I get left at 200. I am losing basically about 17% Attack because of that massive flaw in the race. What happens when a stronger effect comes along? Something like, say, -40% Attack, which I believe is what Trio Bats give, well, normally my 240 would go to 144, thanks to the fact my attack should be 400 though, and my attack penalty is now a stacked amount of -80%, my attack is left at 80. I am losing 66.6% of my Attack, the overall potency of the Attack down is about 160~170% more effective, just because of my race, at this point, on a Easy Prey mob like a Bat which can do this sort of thing, my attacks would go from wherever they are, do basically a flat out 0.

These mobs already have no TP moves, a large penalty all on its own, to make its attack suck this badly, removes physical from your options of ways to deal damage nearly completely on any mob who can abuse it. Simply avoiding this mobs isn't an answer, its a solution, but only to the extent of saying 'yes, its a problem, but we don't feel like it deserves to be fixed, instead, we rather limit you on where you can play this till you unlock BLM' which is stupid.

Fynlar

09-04-2013, 08:55 AM

Again you aren't listening. Forgetting how disproportionate the att lose to speed gain is... it is stacking additively . So -50% debuff means you are actually at -90% total.

So... don't fight stuff that does atk down on you? This isn't rocket surgery, here.

Even on mobs other than chigoe, you usually wouldn't want to fight atk-down capable mobs anyway unless you either have Erase or the ability to beat them before they can do a TP move.

Demon6324236

09-04-2013, 09:42 AM

So... don't fight stuff that does atk down on you? This isn't rocket surgery, here.Your right, its not, its simple, just don't give a mob without TP moves super low attack in this form. If you want to give it low attack, do it normally, I assume all of these mobs have a different method of getting attack, I wouldn't know for sure, never check, if so, instead of making a -attack % penalty, there are 2 other ways to do it, either make it naturally just suck at attack, or B, make it a scaling penalty that goes up with every level. Making it a -attack % that stacks is stupid. I guess I can never play as a Chigoe against other players, no matter my level and no matter my type or class, I get to know that a lovely Bio II & some BLU spells or other such abilities will make my attack so low I cant touch them because I flat out suck thanks to a race based penalty.

dasva

09-04-2013, 11:53 AM

So... don't fight stuff that does atk down on you? This isn't rocket surgery, here.
Thank you for admitting it's a problem that you HAVE to work around :). And one you have zero choice in once you start doing mvm and mvp. Also you face very similar problems on high def +def move mobs.

Fynlar

09-04-2013, 01:25 PM

Not everything is going to be equally good. It can't be done, and even if it could... surprise, that would make things boring. Frankly, the system already IS boring due to how similar most of the monsters play out (mindless auto-attacking things to death and actually succeeding due to ridiculous amounts of HP and HP regeneration), and right now we only have a small fraction of what will eventually be available. If something doesn't tickle your fancy, don't play it. Man, you people act like tiers never existed before in fighting games with loads of characters.

I personally found chigoe to be a change of pace, because it isn't as durable as most other monsters and you have to actually pay more attention to your prey, because that IT++ high def enemy is going to fare a lot better against you than it would on almost any other monster. Nevertheless, I still got it to 60 for my haste+5 instinct, as I imagine most of you will, want to, or already have. It's Monstrosity on hard mode (at least comparatively speaking; playing on almost any other monster feels like easymode in comparison) with a nice reward for sticking it out to at least level 60. Suck it up or go play something else. There's like 50 or so other easymode monsters to use right now and they aren't going to be the last.

dasva

09-04-2013, 01:58 PM

Again thank you for admitting it's a problem with your non solution solutions.

If something is broke just pretend it doesn't exist brillant. Never try to fix it. Hell let's treat everything in the game like that. If you don't like it just don't play it. And since there is no to improve on anything in the game or our playing of it let's just do away with the OF they really serve no prupose then. And heck by your logic if what I have to say isn't your cup of tea then just don't read it and don't respond

And oh my I never knew that something that litterally reduces the mobs ability dmg to 0 making it unplayable is just not equally good. Your grasp of the situation is so amazing I don't know what else to say other than I can't wait for your next post about how we should just stick our heads in the sand

Fynlar

09-04-2013, 04:09 PM

Again thank you for admitting it's a problem with your non solution solutions.

Except I never said that it was a problem, nor that it is broken. Don't put words in my mouth.

And oh my I never knew that something that litterally reduces the mobs ability dmg to 0 making it unplayable is just not equally good.

Oh crap, this mob just petrified me. My ability to do damage is now zero! I'm calling bs, remove petrification from the game!

Try again.

Demon6324236

09-04-2013, 04:36 PM

Totally the same thing...

Fynlar

09-04-2013, 08:55 PM

Totally the same thing...

My point exactly

Demon6324236

09-05-2013, 02:13 AM

My point exactlyExcept its not, here, lets take SAM & give it a -40% Attack penalty. It gets TP faster than other jobs, so it WSs faster, the Attack bonus on most of its WSs can make up for the penalty, but it should be balanced, right? How about DRG, they got a Wyvern, support abilities unlike other 2-handed DDs, perhaps we should give them some massive penalty to the job too right? Or DRK, just give them a -40% defense native effect, because after all, its a massive offensive job, tons of attack on that one, should take out its defense so its fair.

No, that's stupid. Chigoes are simply broken. Under the rules of the game when fighting an enemy version of them, it works, because they have special rules that will not allow them to become so worthless, that's why level 1 mobs can hit any level 99 for DMG still, but in the case of us players... its different. We can hit for 0 due to these penalties, they effect us in a much worse and terrible way. If they simply gave us low attack, it would be better, at least then the attack down effects we get from any source would not instantly get a super boost to potency due to our race.

As it has been said, the race attacks a little faster, yippy, but the -attack & no TPs alone is more than enough to make the race suck to the point of being nearly unplayable because of how horrible it is. There is no, 0, zilch, nada reasoning for why this should be stackable with other effects similar to itself in a way that makes a Chigoe basically worthless for physical combat simply because their race was made to have a foolishly implemented naturally unavoidable penalty which brings it down. As I said, I hope no one wants to play as a Chigoe when PvP comes out for this event, because it already is hopeless seeing as unless they change the rules for player monsters, 1 attack down effect is all it takes to make your damage drop to crap.

Mefuki

09-05-2013, 08:14 AM

Man, you people act like tiers never existed before in fighting games with loads of characters.

Who knows, maybe the community will go the Pokemon route and make up their own tiers (smogon, official, etc. complete with different clauses and subsets of rules). That's a pretty exciting prospect to me.

dasva

09-05-2013, 11:44 AM

Except I never said that it was a problem, nor that it is broken. Don't put words in my mouth.

So... don't fight stuff that does atk down on you? This isn't rocket surgery, here.
don't play it.

Yes you clearly aren't admitting it's a problem when your solution to things is either just don't play large parts of it or don't play it at all. That sticking your in the sand and pretending there is nothing to see clearly isn't saying there is a problem. Your mastery over logic is simply breathtaking. I'd say I couldn't wait for your next stroke of brillance but you already had another one

Oh crap, this mob just petrified me. My ability to do damage is now zero! I'm calling bs, remove petrification from the game!

Try again.

Because yes something that only does that to 1 mob is totally the same as something that does that to everything. Even better a rather common ability is the same as a fairly rare one. I can't wait for your next totally apt comparison.

Fynlar

09-06-2013, 09:17 AM

As it has been said, the race attacks a little faster, yippy, but the -attack & no TPs alone is more than enough to make the race suck to the point of being nearly unplayable because of how horrible it is.

You're being a little melodramatic there, because I've played it and it isn't even anywhere near as bad as you claim.

As it has been said, the race attacks a little faster, yippy, but the -attack & no TPs alone is more than enough to make the race suck to the point of being nearly unplayable because of how horrible it is.

Then don't play it.

In the meantime, the rest of us (or me, at least) have gotten it to 60 just fine, gotten our haste+5 instinct, and moved on with our (my) life.

Yes you clearly aren't admitting it's a problem when your solution to things is either just don't play large parts of it or don't play it at all.

The problem lies with the playerbase here for being whiners that can't adapt, not the devs. One piddly monster out of 50 or whatever (soon to be way more) is not a "large part" of the content by any means.

Demon6324236

09-06-2013, 09:43 AM

You're being a little melodramatic there, because I've played it and it isn't even anywhere near as bad as you claim.Would you like to tell me what bonus a Chigoe gets that makes it worth losing TP attacks and 40% of its attack power which can result in much more potent & devastating attack down effects?

Fynlar

09-06-2013, 10:15 AM

Would you like to tell me what bonus a Chigoe gets that makes it worth losing TP attacks and 40% of its attack power which can result in much more potent & devastating attack down effects?

No. You said the monster is unplayable, and I'm saying that's certainly not true, because I managed it, and without even wanting to kill myself in the process. I don't owe any further defense of my position than that.

You're just spoiled because almost every other monster has a slightly easier time of things, so as soon as one shows up that even remotely presents more of a challenge, there's immediately something wrong with the monster.

My point is, you have like 50 other monsters (again, soon to be more) that you can play if you want Easymode Monstrosity. Why are people compelled to complain about one monster being slightly harder to level than the rest? It's not even a matter of being different playstyles, like it is with our normal adventurer jobs. Every monster plays out almost exactly the same way, auto attack stuff to death while solo. It's not like you're missing out on some unique gameplay experience because chigoe is too hard for you to play.

Also, please stop bringing up the atk down effects like it's some kind of major issue. Even on mobs other than chigoe, it's typically best not to fight anything that puts atk down on you anyway unless you can Erase it. There are many other instances where mobs have an ability to completely cripple your ability to do damage, and I just don't see what makes this one any more noteworthy than the rest.

Demon6324236

09-06-2013, 11:12 AM

You're just spoiled because almost every other monster has a slightly easier time of things, so as soon as one shows up that even remotely presents more of a challenge, there's immediately something wrong with the monster..Balancing of this monster is off, that's why, its not a challenge, its simply not balanced properly. Attack down & no TP moves are supposed to be a balance for the faster attacks I would assume, however, that is broken because they do not make up for it, not even close. As I said earlier and it was brought up by others as well, for monsters that's fine, they work differently, but we get very badly effected by this attack down, which is why it needs changed.

Fynlar

09-06-2013, 11:47 AM

Balancing of this monster is off, that's why, its not a challenge, its simply not balanced properly. Attack down & no TP moves are supposed to be a balance for the faster attacks I would assume, however, that is broken because they do not make up for it, not even close.

Worked well enough for me, and I wouldn't have even called it difficult, just slightly more challenging than playing mostly any other monster.

Not everything is going to be perfectly balanced unless everything is a carbon copy of each other. There's going to be characters/jobs/whatever that you don't feel like playing. This alone is not enough of a reason for changes to be made.

but we get very badly effected by this attack down, which is why it needs changed.

It, more than likely, is not going to change (due to the nature of the monster when it is not being used by a player; it has always been a weak attacker than attacked faster than normal), nor do I see a reason why it has to change.

You might as well complain about how unplayable wamouracampa is because of how slowly it moves. Surprise, that's how wamouracampa are. Double surprise, nobody's forcing you to play it!

Demon6324236

09-06-2013, 12:38 PM

Worked well enough for me, and I wouldn't have even called it difficult, just slightly more challenging than playing mostly any other monster.Did I say difficult? No, I said improperly balanced.

Not everything is going to be perfectly balanced unless everything is a carbon copy of each other. There's going to be characters/jobs/whatever that you don't feel like playing. This alone is not enough of a reason for changes to be made.Did I ask for perfect balance? No, but this is easy to see how unbalanced it is, and easy to fix. Give it a 10% attack penalty that doesn't stack with other things, easy fix, makes it much more playable.

It, more than likely, is not going to change (due to the nature of the monster when it is not being used by a player; it has always been a weak attacker than attacked faster than normal), nor do I see a reason why it has to change.Again, monsters play by different rules, unless monstrosity lets us play by their rules rather than the normal player rules, it screws this mob.

You might as well complain about how unplayable wamouracampa is because of how slowly it moves. Surprise, that's how wamouracampa are. Double surprise, nobody's forcing you to play it!To get to the monsters that come after it, or its instincts, yes, people are.

dasva

09-06-2013, 01:37 PM

The problem lies with the playerbase here for being whiners that can't adapt, not the devs. One piddly monster out of 50 or whatever (soon to be way more) is not a "large part" of the content by any means.
1 problem out of 50 is still a problem.... your lazy attitude about it doesn't really mean anything nor make it not a problem

dasva

09-06-2013, 01:55 PM

You might as well complain about how unplayable wamouracampa is because of how slowly it moves. Surprise, that's how wamouracampa are. Double surprise, nobody's forcing you to play it!1. It isn't that slow and there aren't exactly alot of gravity moves out there to make it really that painful.
2. You can pull mobs to you
3. You have tp moves that make to AOE kill tons of ITs at once making it lvl actually alot faster than alot of other monsters
4. That actually is how the mob is this isn't how chigoes really are

You're just spoiled because almost every other monster has a slightly easier time of things, so as soon as one shows up that even remotely presents more of a challenge, there's immediately something wrong with the monster.
Stop lieing. I lvld 7 monsters to 60+. It's ALOT harder. And you are completely missing the point having such a large difference is the problem.

My point is, you have like 50 other monsters (again, soon to be more) that you can play if you want Easymode Monstrosity. Why are people compelled to complain about one monster being slightly harder to level than the rest? It's not even a matter of being different playstyles, like it is with our normal adventurer jobs. Every monster plays out almost exactly the same way, auto attack stuff to death while solo. It's not like you're missing out on some unique gameplay experience because chigoe is too hard for you to play.
Not fixing one thing just because there are other options is a very poor excuse. Hey guys let's not fix things wrong with reives because heck there are litterally hundreds of events in the game. Let's not fix a job because there are 21 others. Let's not even develop content because there is so much already and some people will apparently just lap up any POS SE hands them and say sir can I have another.

Also, please stop bringing up the atk down effects like it's some kind of major issue. Even on mobs other than chigoe, it's typically best not to fight anything that puts atk down on you anyway unless you can Erase it. There are many other instances where mobs have an ability to completely cripple your ability to do damage, and I just don't see what makes this one any more noteworthy than the rest.

Are you really that dense? Have you not lvled up before the regular old way? Triple bats and worms have always been a staple of lvling since the game came out. As are things like crawlers and crabs. This is even without erase. I fought them all the time because I had so much att and because of it factoring additively with my native attack bonuses it had less of an effect then it would've even normal players. So I can easily power thru it and ones like say bats and worms are so squishy and usually easier to fight that it doesn't matter when I still have a decent amount of att. But when I have 40 at lvl 60 I can't do shit. And the reason why this is noteworthy is because it only cripples 1 monster. GET THAT THRU YOUR HEAD. SOMETHING IS COMPLETELY CRIPPLING 1 MONSTER WHILE LEAVING THE REST BARELY EFFECTED. This would be like if your previous petrify example if petrify lasted for 10 seconds on most job and 3 minutes against 1 job. At this point I think you actually do see the problem but after posting a bunch of stuff based on things that have been proven wrong you just can't stop sticking to your guns even though you know how wrong you are. But keep on keeping on. It's very entertaining in a sad kind of way

Fynlar

09-07-2013, 09:35 AM

1 problem out of 50 is still a problem.... your lazy attitude about it doesn't really mean anything nor make it not a problem

"I don't like it" doesn't qualify as an actual problem, fyi

1. It isn't that slow and there aren't exactly alot of gravity moves out there to make it really that painful.

Chigoe isn't that ineffective at killing things and there aren't exactly a lot of atk down moves out there to make it really that painful.

3. You have tp moves that make to AOE kill tons of ITs at once making it lvl actually alot faster than alot of other monsters

Most monsters can't actually do that, either because the AoEs aren't strong enough, or because the TP cost is too high. Usually it's both.

4. That actually is how the mob is this isn't how chigoes really are

Uhh, yes it is. They have always hit lightly and more frequently.

Stop lieing. I lvld 7 monsters to 60+. It's ALOT harder. And you are completely missing the point having such a large difference is the problem.

I've done more than you. You still want to try playing the experience card with me?

Not fixing one thing just because there are other options is a very poor excuse. Hey guys let's not fix things wrong with reives because heck there are litterally hundreds of events in the game. Let's not fix a job because there are 21 others.

I don't propose that they fix things here because I don't believe anything is broken. Chigoe is, to borrow a phrase that I'm sure everyone hates, working as intended.

dasva

09-07-2013, 03:26 PM

"I don't like it" doesn't qualify as an actual problem, fyi
Making stuff up doesn't qualify as a real counter arugment either fyi. No matter how many times you try to claim how minor this is or how balance it is or how I should just equip more att instincts or how there is somehow nothing wrong with making it so certain moves reduce 1 monsters dmg to 0 while barely reducing other monsters dmg wont make it so.

Chigoe isn't that ineffective at killing things and there aren't exactly a lot of atk down moves out there to make it really that painful.

Most monsters can't actually do that, either because the AoEs aren't strong enough, or because the TP cost is too high. Usually it's both.

Tell me another story grandpa. Also how in the hell are you responding to what I was saying about wamoura with stuff about chigoe. Keep your stories straight man. Either way like already said bats and worms are staples of lvling Very common and squishy and def up moves hurt almost as much in such a lopsided way and those mobs are also plentiful easy common mobs to lvl up on. They are relatively speaking common buffs/debuffs on xp mobs. I'll grant you in these days many players don't seem to know what xp mobs are or do since people abyssea burn everything so that's probably why you don't know this

Uhh, yes it is. They have always hit lightly and more frequently.No that isn't and I dare you to in any way shape or form prove regular chigoes have a -40% att that stacks addivitely with attack downs to the point where you can reduce there dmg to 0 with no buffs just an attack down move. I'll be waiting

I've done more than you. You still want to try playing the experience card with me?
Assuming you aren't lieing yet again you clearly weren't awake during it. Otherwise you'd know just how wrong the things you are saying are. Slighlty harder psh. In the time it takes to get those last 10 lvls for the chigoe instinct I have litterally take another monster from 0 to 60. And sure a little of that is the crappy job choices chigoe gets cause native chigoes only have ones that are unsuitable for solo lvling like this but most of it is this BS attack thing and no tp moves. Speaking of which even before you get rdm sub the other thf vermin ie ladybug was miles stronger so it's not even just a job thing. And once you get rdm sub and that good AOE move... well from lvl 50 when I got the move to 75 when I stopped ladybug I was litterally getting anywhere from a full half to a full lvl each pull I did. Though I did have to be somewhat selective on my targets

I don't propose that they fix things here because I don't believe anything is broken. Chigoe is, to borrow a phrase that I'm sure everyone hates, working as intended.
If you really believed that you wouldn't be suggesting avoiding entire mob families all together or just not playing the job. Regardless working as intended doesn't always mean it isn't broken. In fact really if often doesn't mean that as far as when SE uses it. I mean for years using utsesmi to tank was considered not working as intended lol. Several blu spells that haven't worked for 3 years were considered working as intended until recently... well hopefully they might just be feeding us false hope on that one. Something that litterally reduces 1 and only 1 monsters dmg to 0 in a game that has never done that in over 10 years of being out is clearly broken. Especially in something is intended for pvp as the only way to obtain rewards. But whatever it's not like I actually expected you to use reason or see your own self contradictions. This is mostly to demonstrate the sheer magnitude of the inequity of the situation. First and foremost to SE in hopes reading this they realize this might need adjustment... which is kinda the point of threads like this and they do do that. And secondly to the community so if SE fails they know what they have in store for them. Thank you again for the lulz. It was fun almost as fun as getting my diremite from 54 to 60 while writing this not even paying attention really. Shame it's not /rdm would been that much faster

Camate

09-10-2013, 03:33 AM

Greetings!

Below is an update from Ryota Iwagami in regards to one adjustment to take place in the fall version update for Monstrosity.

Hello.

I’d like to tell you all about one adjustment planned for Monstrosity to take place in the fall version update.

Area expansion
As I mentioned here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/36535-Monstrosity-Feedback?p=465378&viewfull=1#post465378), we will be increasing the number of areas where large monsters can move around, and will be simultaneously adding high level camps. Currently we are planning to add Lufaise Meadows, Uleguerand Range, and other areas; however, considering there may be bugs, please understand that we cannot guarantee this at the moment.

Everyone seems to be interested in the monipulator vs. adventurer content and all the other new things, so I would like to make a comment on it in the near future. Please hang in there for a little while longer.

Fynlar

09-10-2013, 11:30 AM

No that isn't and I dare you to in any way shape or form prove regular chigoes have a -40% att that stacks addivitely with attack downs to the point where you can reduce there dmg to 0 with no buffs just an attack down move. I'll be waiting

I never said that all chigoes necessarily have a -40% atk, but they do hit for less damage than other mobs of their level. Our lessened atk as a chigoe is supposed to simulate this, I'm sure. Again, this is made up for by the fact that they hit faster.

We aren't going to be exactly like monsters in every single way. We don't die immediately to critical hits, for one thing.

Assuming you aren't lieing yet again you clearly weren't awake during it. Otherwise you'd know just how wrong the things you are saying are. Slighlty harder psh. In the time it takes to get those last 10 lvls for the chigoe instinct I have litterally take another monster from 0 to 60.

Maybe you're just no good at being a chigoe :(

If you really believed that you wouldn't be suggesting avoiding entire mob families all together or just not playing the job.

Why not? Sometimes some people just don't like playing certain jobs. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong with the job.

Demon6324236

09-10-2013, 12:51 PM

I am disappointed in the fact you find nothing wrong with this...

scaevola

09-11-2013, 03:37 AM

The Monstrosity system is richer for having a few weak monster types that reward you with top-shelf instincts.

I'm never going to use chigoe for PvP, but I'm never going to use like 90% of the monster types available anyway, so what's the problem? It's not a prerequisite for another monster, iirc; the only thing you give up by shelving your chigoe is the 5% haste instinct. Hopefully we'll get a few MORE weak monster types that force you to think (worm!) and reward dedication with excellent instincts later on; it would make Monstrosity as a whole more interesting than one million types that play like the basic beetle or tiger.

Mirage

09-11-2013, 03:57 AM

My feedback: Can you let us gain conquest points while being a monster? Can you make it so that we keep dedication effects when turning into monsters?

Can you make it so that some of the powers we gain in monstrosity eventually affects our "normal" character? Doesn't have to be a lot, just a tiny bit. A couple of points of str here, a 2% intimidation rate there. That sort of stuff.

dasva

09-11-2013, 11:41 AM

I never said that all chigoes necessarily have a -40% atk, but they do hit for less damage than other mobs of their level. Our lessened atk as a chigoe is supposed to simulate this, I'm sure. Again, this is made up for by the fact that they hit faster.
We aren't going to be exactly like monsters in every single way. We don't die immediately to critical hits, for one thing.Technically you said yes it is in response to me saying this isn't how they work. So I guess you are taking that back eh? Because the whole hits for a little less dmg for slightly faster attack isn't even what 90% of this discussion is about. Nice try though
Also not all of them die immediately on crit/jas and you miss the point they are way different in a way that horribly gimps them in a way that it doesn't other jobs. Again nice try with the diversions and sidesteps.

Maybe you're just no good at being a chigoe :(
Maybe you're no good with reality

Why not? Sometimes some people just don't like playing certain jobs. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong with the job.
When the reason to switch is because of playability. When that is the only "solution" to the problem it's actually a problem. Just because you think things should be horribly unbalanced doesn't mean something isn't wrong

Minikom

09-12-2013, 04:03 PM

what about PT on monstrosity?

DanDan-

09-13-2013, 03:01 AM

Remember this?

Basic Plan

•Being able to play the same as everyone else
Fundamentally, all players will be beginning from the same starting point, and elements such as job levels, the gear you have, and the magic you have learned will not play a part.

You described this event as something one could play independently of the rest of the game and that though they may cross over at times this will simply be "achievement elements similar to synthetic atma, while making it so they are not an essential aspect".

Yet, the fact that, if we have not played mage jobs, we need to spend millions of gil on magic scrolls and a bunch of time on levelling every job that can cast spells that a monster has is "working as intended"? I came back to this game solely for this, which you said would be fine but it isn't at all if I wish to experience a large portion of it and even if I wish to be in effective in battle in many cases.

Camate, you translated Iwagami's message more than a month ago where he stated that he will be posting in the "coming days" with a response to the magic issue - any update please whatsoever?

Mefuki

09-13-2013, 09:40 PM

Yeah, I came back only for Monstrosity as well. I LOVE it but I haven't been able to play it for about 3 weeks now because I've got to level all these mage jobs I don't care about in preparation. Why do I have to play parts of the game I don't like to get to the part I want to play? I suppose it's smart of them because it's just more busy work that eats up more time which has me subscribed for longer...

Besides, knowing FFXI they probably couldn't code spells being independently learned by monsters. Lets just hope, really hope, that this won't be the same case for Job Abilities or else we'll have another hoop to jump through.

Soraishin

09-14-2013, 01:25 AM

my only gripe with monstrosity is not being able to party, imo spending tedious hours leveling up a monster with no applicable rewards towards my character or monster is irrelevant at this point, i've taken a few monsters to 50 and it was fun for a while but now it seems pointless wasting more time in it. If it were possible to party with other monsters to speed up the level up process it would be much less boring than running around solo looking at the same mobs dishing out dirt xp. So as it stands i'll be staying out of the Feretory until i can party as it takes too long to level up monsters over lvl 50 with no forseeable rewards or incentives. Getting adamantoise is cool and all but still not worth it at the moment.

dasva

09-18-2013, 11:13 AM

I too can't wait for pting but lvling isn't so bad. Aside from chigoe I can chain 5 IT+s as far as I've taken all mine so far which is several 60s and a couple of 75s. So each level goes pretty fast though nothing like the hour it takes to get from 1 to 30 lol. Well except large monsters after 40ish of course because of that whole we are going to make it so the highest level monster you can fight is only lvl 52 <.<. Really looking forward to more zones for big monster since after a point forget speed it's just litterally impossible to level them anymore. And even before that leveling off of dcs is dreadfully slow especially after doing a monster that can basically cleave a good 5+ ITs at once (be even crazier in a pt with heals)

Fynlar

09-18-2013, 11:39 AM

The Monstrosity system is richer for having a few weak monster types that reward you with top-shelf instincts.

Thank Christ, someone else who gets it.

Annalise

10-08-2013, 04:06 AM

While the addition of monster abilities is nice, was it intentional to take away job traits? For instance, my Tiger was WHM/THF and had all of the job traits of both jobs at level 90. Now it only has WHM job traits. I am just wondering if this is intended, or if this is a bug.

Babekeke

10-08-2013, 04:19 AM

elqplau

10-08-2013, 08:37 AM

im a lvl 16 lizy i dont see the point of it no drops cant leave the area what us the oount of it i find it boring

dasva

10-10-2013, 01:48 PM

It has no point outside of itself. If the only thing you care about is getting drops this isn't for you. If you enjoy just playing and want quick lite new stuff with no "rewards" at least currently it's for you

Selindrile

10-10-2013, 04:20 PM

And therein lies the problem, does anyone remember Ballista? I do, it was big, and it was fun, and then after some time it ceased to exist to 95% of the playerbase, we shouldn't spend dev time on developing something for a tiny sliver of the playerbase.

Party content will be fun, and I imagine a resurgence when this happens, I can't wait for it myself, but the only way to give this system any real longevity will to be to tie it in to standard adventurers, this could be done with gear but I don't really think it should be, may I propose the following.

Wild Soul: Merry Monstrous Meriting!

A system that ties monstrosity back into the adventurer itself by allowing some tiny portion of power to be transferred back to the player. Think of it like meriting, that you do while playing monstrosity, it should be small IMO, but noticable.

From inside my mog house I click my "Wild Soul" (tm) menu, and then scroll through the different list of monster races I've unlocked, I select "Sheep" as my mode, and see the 10 points I've earned by levelling Sheep to 99, I then ponder what would be best for playing my monk in delve.

I choose "HP+1%" for 3 points, "Attack +5" For 3 more points, and "Double Attack +1" for 4 points, then close my menu, leave my mog house knowing that that choice is locked in until I return.

I could only select one monster at a time to gain benefits from, and these bonuses are quite small but feel important and rewarding as they don't take up a gear slot, but it provides an interesting reward system to playing monstrosity.

I think doing something like this would keep people playing and feeling rewarded for playing Monstrosity, without imbalancing players, for a long time to come.

Demon6324236

10-10-2013, 05:34 PM

They said Monstrosity will have its won rewards and they will be relevant to the game. The thing is, all of this comes with the PvM & MvM features I assume, and since those aren't out till next month, and even then, it seems to be only the PvM, we right now get nothing.

Selindrile

10-10-2013, 05:39 PM

"While these rewards will not be items you can't live without when you are an adventurer," Was what they posted, if you need a translation, that means: "Fashion Items and other useless things few people care about."

That's what Ballista had, that's what Pankration had, and that's not enough to keep people interested for any real length of time.

dasva

10-12-2013, 02:12 PM

I disagree.

Ballista got boring largely because getting groups together and such was annoying and well the whole no switching things very disproportionately hurt various jobs and it was rather cut a dry. A small handleful of jobs with a few full time gear doing exactly the same thing.

Pankrations main problem is they did nothing with it. The entire system had less to do then just what monstorsity has so far.

I've already spent more time doing monstrosity then I did ballista and pank combined and I did alot of pank for my photos and still very interested while completely bored with the others. And that is without even mediocre rewards the others had or pvp options.

Now this clearly isn't for everyone. But I kinda like the idea of events that are designed to be fun in and of themselves and scoff the idea that everything has to have immediate endgame applicability for it to be worthwile

Demon6324236

10-12-2013, 03:10 PM

I agree with Dasva, though I wish the leveling was faster post-50 as it gets annoying stupid as normal, I have been enjoying it quite a bit without rewards. Next update when PvP is added I plan to take my level 99 Genbu Adamantoise up against my LS and see how it works out, I have a few people who seem very excited at the idea, and some who are even thinking of leveling their own mobs to unlock things like Behemoth, even if it rewards them with nothing more than enjoyment.

Selindrile

10-12-2013, 04:10 PM

Well I can't disagree enough with the both of you, when Monstrosity first came out, there was just tons of people playing it, wave after wave, I started a Monstrosity linkshell, the most common question asked by new people is, "What do I get from doing all this?" And quickly, it tailed off to the point where I know almost noone who still does it, even I quit doing it, as excited as I was by the concept, because it felt unrewarding, I only know one person who made it to higher levels (70+) on monstrosity on my server.

I now almost never see other monsters when I do go out, which I have been doing since the patch to play with job abilities. This thing seems to be falling off as fast as Pankration did, which was extremely fast. Ballista was far more popular, for quite a longer time, again, on my server at least.

Demon6324236

10-12-2013, 04:40 PM

Once you can do more with it, perhaps it will be more lively then. Right now the game is dying and the content is still being built, unlike the other 2 which were made, released, and hardly touched.

dasva

10-13-2013, 03:05 PM

I don't think you are disagreeing with me so much as saying it's not for alot of people and that a decent portion of the player base only cares about their endgame rewards. Which I totally agree with. I'm just saying it is fun in and of itself. Why do events that you wouldn't do without a reward just so you can get gear to help you do other events you wouldn't do if there wasn't a reward?

Either your server is silly or your sample size is skewed. I personally have 5 species over 70 and everytime I go to level in zeruh there are at least 2-3 people there between lvl 65-75. So I can safely say there are definitely people out there that can have fun in the game without some nice pixels going into there loot pool.

As a final note we already have lots and lots and lots of events for drops. Litterally 10+ years worth. Yet aside from voidwatch I see more people doing monstrosity than all other pre soa content combined. This is because with the focus on rapid gear progession (though even before soa there was very few people in older stuff) only the most current events are worth doing for gear. And if you didn't make the content fun to begin with well who cares. With this they have the chance to make a nice lite event that is just fun to do. That wont be tied to ever shifting materialism. Will the town gear E-pimps like it? No they wont but they also don't like 90% of the content other there either since it's past it's expiration date. I beleive keeping it like it is will keep it's overall longevity for the niche it is going for and perhaps some rewards for the more competive parts that come with pvp and mvp. Just wait till partying and pvp and mvp come along. The main bore right now is how slow higher levels are and how you are 100% alone on it. I personally can't wait to go to BD as "King Behemoth" and troll the lines there lol

PS. Technically there are rewards right now. You can get KIs from kills :). Though there aren't many that can be done as a monster in those areas I think and was probably just an oversight lol

Selindrile

10-17-2013, 04:26 AM

You just said "This content isn't for most people." Why are we spending this much dev time on content that "Isn't for most people?" Then, this is not a few emotes, or something like that, this is slated to be a pretty big system, with what little dev power we have, we should be focusing on the majority, trying to maintain some population.

We have lots of events for drops, 10 years worth, which all have become obsolete as you just said yourself, and few people do the vast majority. There's only one old content that I see people doing more than monstrosity, BCNMs/KSNM, mainly because people are still building blackbelts, going for Drings, and (until this weekend) looking for Utsususemi: Ni and Phalanx scrolls. As you said, there's even lines for KB, people still do this because of the Dring, not anything else.

Rewards, that is what gives content desirability and longevity in an MMO environment, that and nothing else, also, my proposed system would not ever fall 'out of date', there's no materialism or E-pimpery involved in merits. There's nothing to fall "out of date" as it's essentially Merits: Group Monster.

I'll admit that my sampling hasn't been scientifically conducted, but look at the FFXIAH forums, nobody mentions monstrosity, and the forums here, people don't talk about monstrosity much, which implies, as seems to my own anecdotal evidence, that it's not done much anymore, despite the changes, and I argue that's because it's unrewarding.

Byrth

10-17-2013, 04:51 AM

All I do in game right now is Monstrosity, pretty much. I'm working towards level 90 Gnat right now (at 68). It's very boring, but so is the rest of the game.

dasva

10-18-2013, 11:05 AM

Dammit Byrth you passed my gnat!!!

dasva

10-21-2013, 12:35 PM

What exactly are you even complaining about?

Edyth

10-22-2013, 07:33 AM

This thread is about 200 posts, this BG thread has 558 posts [http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/117380-Monstrosity-Acquiring-Species], and this FFXIAH thread has 28 pages [http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/39980/monstrosity-species-guide/], so obviously people care about monstrosity. I think the reason it's not as hot a discussion topic as it was before is because Gnat and JAs are the only things added since August 6. We're just waiting around now/leveling up the dozens of species already accesible.

dasva

10-22-2013, 12:53 PM

Oh and that bg thread is more or less specifically about well acquiring species though it does derail into lvling location talk and such. The other thread for mechanics and such is about twice as big.

Speaking of jas can we get a confirm on wether or not we are supposed to get any subjob jas?

Afin

10-27-2013, 07:06 PM

Question to the dev's, Is it possible for you to implement items, or perhaps instincts based similar to exp rings? or perhaps a similar system to fov/gov? As this may keep those interested who want to lvl HNM and regular mobs past 70 but would get a better exp bonus than grinding through mobs that eventually give 100-150 xp. And those are in the camps where you added new high lvl mobs at the same time as releasing abyssea. I think the issue is that people don't like the idea of grinding slow lvls anymore, yeah its what we used to do. But the games not exactly doing well servers wise nowadays. People want fun stuff to do, I personally love monstrosity. But their maybe others that do but find it really boring past 70.

dasva

10-28-2013, 10:15 AM

Well except for large mobs you can still fight T+s still like 95 I think? Still gets rather slow and monotonous though.

Anyways a question of my own. So HNM status is suppose to give 50 more faculty points and at 99 we already have 109... so my question is when are we going to get more slots for instincts? Right now to actually use all those faculty points you'd have to basically fill it mostly with just the job ones which is a bad idea. For example right now to cap haste I use 52 points and 8 slots that would leave me with over 100 points for 4 slots when the highest amount is 15 <.<. Even right now I'm more worried about slots than points so often will equip instincts that aren't very efficient point wise just because they are more efficient slot wise

Demon6324236

10-28-2013, 10:41 AM

Past 50 I find it boring as hell, I got my Lizard, Bugard, and Wivre all to 60 so I could unlock Adamantoise, I got it to 81 so far, but its just so slow & boring that every time I log in to work on it I kill enough mobs for half of my XP bar, maybe a full bar, then log off or go afk because its just so boring. All I have done for the past 6 levels is kill birds in Misar, over, and over, and over again.

I would love leveling to be faster, I mean, we already have more mobs right now than we have individual jobs, and most mobs are the same as one another for the first 30 or so levels since the grand majority are all WAR/WAR at level 1, and do not get any differences till 30+ besides TP abilities, which are not enough to make it enjoyable to level nearly the same mob all over again. I originally wanted to unlock Behemoth after getting my Adamantoise to 99, now... I can hardly hit 99 with my Adamantoise, if I last that long, I don't think I can make it through 4 level 75s, and a level 90 just to unlock Behemoth, which I will then want to get to 99 as well...

Demon6324236

10-28-2013, 10:43 AM

I think new instincts might cost more since they are giving us so many extra points we can use, what I am more worried about is, are there any other advantages to being a NM or HNM? I mean, more points is nice and all, but if that's all we get, its not really enough I can say I think it matters much unless they do make things cost more, because as it stands, we hardly need more points at 99.

EekYou

10-29-2013, 07:04 AM

As a true adventurer, I apologize for my jilted comrades' statements of abhorrent nonsense. Oh ye Altana, I do not beg for changes of beast, nor of man, nor of any element or spell known. I ask only that we be allowed a single character(or letter) the lowercase Alpha from the written language of the Grecian peoples. I am able to find greek beta(ß) in many forms, however, where I expect an alpha(α) I find only a common a.

If it helps, I'm on Shiva server as a NA player with both PC and PS2. Normally in PC use, the Alpha char holds @[(alt)+224;α&#03b1;&alpha].

I understand that translation is hard for software development. I also understand how part of the development process requires that game terms are kept out of the /translate function until they have been approved past the 'test' phase.

/ms "Fighting Stance α" translates over the net, but because of the way that games are made, fonts need to be pretty exclusive.

Say what you will, but I'm not embarrassed by the fact that I have never used any application to alter FFXI, no windower, nada. I felt like a cheater by altering my macro file outside of the game. 83 BF bitwise non-comment.

From my knowledge and research, Gnole and Wamoura both have the issue of this simple syntax omission.

Altana, if it be your will, I would surely appreciate the ability to scribe the greek character known as alpha.

dasva

10-29-2013, 11:58 AM

Kinda largely depends on the monster. Like Gnat has been insanely fast even without any support or healing abilities. But then again I maintain an almost constant ~69% haste on it. So I can still chain 5 VTs for 900 on the last kill at 90 with little to no prep actions to help. So I still get over a level an hour. If I had some outside cures, buffs and debuffs it would be real crazy. Ladybug went pretty fast too once I realized the dot on it's AOE move doesn't seem to work on dark type mobs. Gnole get's pretty crazy too. Seen a few pull like 6 IT+ stand in front of them with max counter rate and boost to counter dmg

Demon6324236

10-29-2013, 08:48 PM

I don't doubt some are fast, but others are very slow, leveling my Adamantiose for instance has been very slow, and the fact I still haven't unlocked Testudo Tremor at level 81 hasn't mad things any easier for me either.

dasva

10-29-2013, 10:45 PM

Oh I know. I still have nightmares about Chigoe. Sadly I think moves like that might be locked to NM/HNM mode or something

Babekeke

11-05-2013, 03:31 AM

From the Update notes:

Damage Increased
Dust Cloud / Lamb Chop / Ram Charge / Campiric Lash / Spinning Top / Fireball / Snort / Cyclotail / Snowball / Venom / Sprout Spin / Critical Bite / Cannonball / Aqua Fortis / Regurgitation / Seedspray / Nox Blast
Damage Decreased
Lamp Chop / Razor Fang / Stomping / Vicious Claw / Frog Kick / Somersault / Needleshot / Sharp Sting / Mandible Bite / Wild Rage / Double Claw / Ripper Fang / Big Horn / Wild Horn / Shock Wave

?????

Genz

11-05-2013, 09:51 PM

Have we any information if they're planning to allow monipulators to cast all spells available to their job/subjob, regardless of the spells learnt as adventurer?

Lamcekalzas91

11-07-2013, 10:46 AM

I think square enix should put boxes and notorius monsters in monstrosity i'd like to be able to get rewards from monsters instead on just exp and infamy i think they should give like boxes that have infamy in them or KI's to give you more infamy per kill or exp or even an attribute or hp/mp % it doesn't have to be a huge reward from the boxes just something to make the monstrosity more fun since you can't go into dungeons with all the monsters and can't enter abyssea it would balance it out a little also i think there should be some type of merit thing for monstrosity.

Mefuki

11-07-2013, 11:13 AM

I had a similar idea. I'd like to be able to fight NM as well. Whether we can get teleported to a special arena or just have them spawn in the Feretory, it'd be great to be able to fight, let's say, Bukhis for example. They COULD make it drop stuff since when we're NMs things do drop to us but, really, that's just gravy. I mostly just want to pit my monster(s) against some past NM's and tough monsters.

In a similar idea, I'd also like to participate in BCNM. Maybe we'd have to pay the cost with the appropriate item (Cloud Evokers, 6*Orbs, etc) beforehand or something. Maybe we'd get something for clearing certain tiers of BCNM. Maybe at the end, we'd get to re-fight mission and end expansion bosses that we've already beaten (Ouryu, Ark Angels, Promathia, Shinryu, etc) and get a reward for beating that. Maybe we'd unlock a special pygmy skin of some of the end bosses for beating them (That's a long shot even with pipe dream thinking :P)?

Sorry, I'm just blue skying at the potential that this very fun system has. I'd to see this stuff but I don't know what the future holds.

dasva

11-07-2013, 11:20 AM

So I think you should be able to get drops as a monster vs a player and buy items with infamy. Right now with only being able to get items as a gladiator that means either straight up getting drops off of monipulators or using prestige but farming prestige off of regular monsters when you are capped at 90 in crappy zones without being able to swap gear the way we normally do would be mindblowingly painful. So that leaves us farming it off of monipulators. The only problem with that is where is the incentive for the monipulators? I mean if they lose they lose 30% of their infamy and if they win they only get 20% of their oppenents prestige in infamy and since their oppenent is clearly farming off of you probably don't have that much. On top of that just leveling up your monipulators you have more infamy than you can use. So there is little to no advantage to fighting as a monipulator and a bit to lose while fighting as a gladiator there is much to gain

Babekeke

11-08-2013, 03:09 AM

dasva

11-08-2013, 03:38 PM

Oh I wasn't referring to leveling in those zones with the chance that a gladiator could attack you so much as actually trying to fight gladiators. It's kinda lopsided where the monipulator really rather wouldn't unless just for fun while the gladiator has much incentive to do so. While I see nothing wrong with there being a risk of some random high level gladiator coming up and whomping on you while you level up to get rank up I just think maybe there should be some kind of meaning to actually fighting back as a monipulator. As is right now if that happens and you think there is any chance you could lose it's much more likely you'd call for a high level friend while trying to kite the gladiator with your 10k hp. Or worst case scenario you just force disconnect and you should still be alive by the time it auto logs you off.

Babekeke

11-09-2013, 08:32 PM

Just killed a 1 star, who should have given me at least 2k prestige, but I got nada ><

Demon6324236

11-13-2013, 07:04 PM

Now that monsters have the ability to change modes, can Turtles be given that ability? I would like to be able to go inside of my shell and gain a potent Regen effect while I am inside like the real ones can, not all can I know, but not all Gnoles can stand either, but you have allowed them to do so when played. Also when fish come out, I would like to think the snails will have the same ability! :x

Mefuki

11-13-2013, 09:41 PM

I posted about that in passing in this post:

I'd like to see this. I'd like to see moving forward more job coverage in general. Ninjas, Scholars, Beastmasters, etc. Speaking of BST, I'm reminded now. I noticed that almost every monipulator is still missing one of their TP moves like Rafflesia is missing Floral Bouquet, Gnole missing Call of The Moon, Peistes missing Grim Glower, etc etc. Can we expect to unlock these via spending large amounts of Infamy like we have to to unlock certain sub-species or perhaps from quests of some sort? Or are they going to be available at level 99, perhaps?

Also, as NM/HNMs, can we expect to gain the ability to have access to some of the quirks that made NMs so interesting and sometimes challenging in the first place? Things like En-enfeeble effects, auras, withdrawing into shells (similar to Aspidochelone), absorbing certain elements to heal and other traits that NMs have that make them difficult/tactically interesting (just look to other NM's you've made in the past for more examples).

I think between this and giving us more interesting job combinations will make fighting as a monster more appealing and will make for some cool strategic value, particularly when MON Vs. MON gets released and/or when we start fighting uncapped.

Demon6324236

11-13-2013, 09:52 PM

True, but you also added in many other things, I was specifically asking just for the form change because we have the ability to change stances with certain ones, and that's basically what this is. I do agree it would be nice to be able to add more of those things, I just wanted to ask specifically for this since it seems more realistic in my opinion. :x

Babekeke

11-18-2013, 06:54 PM

dasva

11-20-2013, 11:37 AM

No prestige again from killing a 1 star player. Can the devs please explain what is happening here? As if it wasn't hard enough to get prestige in the first place...

On this occasion, the monipulator was defeated by other monsters, not by myself (he ran and agro'd everything in his path).

That might have had something to do with it. Did you get the message that you claimed it? I've killed ones dozens of times and always gotten prestige so maybe some weird glitch for you?

Babekeke

11-20-2013, 04:19 PM

That might have had something to do with it. Did you get the message that you claimed it? I've killed ones dozens of times and always gotten prestige so maybe some weird glitch for you?

Killed one that was AFK today and I got prestige. Also killed a friend as I ran by him - I got the message that I claimed him, but the mobs he was fighting killed him, not me - no Prestige.

So, it seems that if you are playing as a monster and not AFK and a gladiator attacks you, all you have to do is run, agro as many mobs as you can, and hope that they kill you, not the player = no reward for the player, and no infamy lost. This means that you can only kill mobs if you can gravity them, or they're AFK, or it's an organised battle with friends that they aren't going to run from.

Babekeke

11-20-2013, 04:33 PM

Things that need fixing/changing with PvP

1) Gestation - I'm sure that there was a reason to give the rubbish Gestation to the PvP zones, however, it really really really really sucks! If 18 hour gestation is unacceptable due to people being able to pop up 'out of nowhere' to attack people, then please adjust it thusly:

Go to Uleguerand Range. Time how long it takes to run all the way from the entrance to the the frozen lake, or vice versa. Add 2 minutes. Make that the new Gestation period for PvP zones.

2) Prevent agro from other mobs in the zone once a monipulator is claimed. As I mentioned above, a monipulator can get themselves killed by other monsters in the zone to prevent the Gladiator from getting the reward, and taking their infamy. Also, Monipulators have been known to quickly kill other mobs around them to level up whilst fighting Gladiators. Please remove this capability to attack other mobs while they are claimed.

3) Include a penalty for running away. Make an area maybe 100 yalms from where the monipulator is claimed. If the monipulator runs too far, they are considered to have lost and will lose their infamy and drop a chest, rewarding the Gladiator(s). Same for if the Gladiator(s) run.

I'm sure there are more, but I'm out of time. I'll add more if I think about them later.

Tanama

11-22-2013, 09:18 AM

Monstrosity is the reason I resubscribed to FFXI. I would like to thank Mr. Ryota Iwagami and his team for making this possible.

With that said, I have a few suggestions to add.

_____________________________________

1. Open more zones for Monstrosity.

I am sure zones will be added with content updates but here are some I and most likely everyone else would really like:

Gustav Tunnel
Korroloka Tunnel
Kuftal Tunnel & Quicksand Caves
Labyrinth of Onzozo & Bibiki Bay (Including Purgonorgo Isle)
The Boyahda Tree & Ro'Maeve
Tu'Lia (Ru'Aun Gardens, The Shrine of Ru'Avitau & Ve'Lugannon Palace)
All of Delkfutt Tower
Elshimo Island zones
Attohwa Chasm
and the rest of the open Aht Urgan zones.

2. If Kuftal Tunnel is added, set one of the spawn points behind the moving rock so that we can access the higher level monsters at any time of the day.

3. If Quicksand Caves is added, allow the Loadstone key item to work as a Monipulator.

4. Allow us to set Belligerency music to play only when fighting Gladiators.
____________________________________

That is all for now. I am very much enjoying Monstrosity and highly anticipating the coming updates. Keep up the great work!

Babekeke

11-22-2013, 08:13 PM

OK, I found something else....

Ram has a TP move called "Rumble": "Reduces evasion of all enemies around the caster"

Unfortunately, it has poor accuracy such that anything that you need to land eva down on, you can't. It only works on mobs that you can hit just fine anyway, thus making it completely pointless.

Oh and whilst I'm at it: Some mobs have TP moves that are considered 'ranged attacks', like Mandragora's Leaf Dagger and Opo-Opo's Stone Throw. All are also useless due to there being no way to increase ranged accuracy (other than maybe using every agi instinct out there). Even with +15 Agi set, I can't hit even Even Match mobs with Stone Throw with enough success to warrant using it at all.

Mefuki

11-22-2013, 10:28 PM

I imagine +Ranged accuracy instincts will start coming once RNG monsters are released.

Okipuit

11-23-2013, 03:46 AM

Include a penalty for running away. Make an area maybe 100 yalms from where the monipulator is claimed. If the monipulator runs too far, they are considered to have lost and will lose their infamy and drop a chest, rewarding the Gladiator(s). Same for if the Gladiator(s) run.

This would be difficult to implement. We certainly understand that users would like every battle to have a conclusion. Running away by changing areas is something that we could easily detect, but we also have to consider the possibility of a user being disconnected. Also, in the scenario a player leaves a specified area where the battle started, it would be difficult to confirm which player was running away and both competitors could potentially receive the penalty.

Make mobs not aggressive when Monipulating. Mobs don't attack other mobs normally, why do they do it when we're at the helm?

If monipulators do not receive aggro from monsters, but gladiators do, it wouldn’t be fair for gladiators.
In addition, monsters have different strengths and weaknesses depending on their type. We encourage users to select a monster type that fits the area.

With that said, I have a few suggestions to add.
I am sure zones will be added with content updates but here are some I and most likely everyone else would really like:

Gustav Tunnel
Korroloka Tunnel
Kuftal Tunnel & Quicksand Caves
Labyrinth of Onzozo & Bibiki Bay (Including Purgonorgo Isle)
The Boyahda Tree & Ro'Maeve
Tu'Lia (Ru'Aun Gardens, The Shrine of Ru'Avitau & Ve'Lugannon Palace)
All of Delkfutt Tower
Elshimo Island zones
Attohwa Chasm
and the rest of the open Aht Urgan zones.

Thank you for the suggestions! We still have plans to introduce even more monstrosity areas and in addition to that, we have an idea to host a monipulator and gladiator PvP specific “Diorama Abdhaljs” area.

Gestation - I'm sure that there was a reason to give the rubbish Gestation to the PvP zones, however, it really really really really sucks! If 18 hour gestation is unacceptable due to people being able to pop up 'out of nowhere' to attack people, then please adjust it thusly:
Go to Uleguerand Range. Time how long it takes to run all the way from the entrance to the the frozen lake, or vice versa. Add 2 minutes. Make that the new Gestation period for PvP zones.

To prevent users from gaining an unfair advantage, the gestation period during PvP is only 1 minute. Also, it is part of the purpose for the gestation period to allow users to move. We feel that currently there is not enough advantage or disadvantage involved to cause a problem.

Edyth

11-23-2013, 01:14 PM

My thoughts:

Regarding Aggro:
Adventurers are able to psychically discern monsters' levels and names, the names of items we obtain, the stats of items we obtain, etc. I do think that real monsters should be able to sense that something isn't right about monipulators, and I support aggro in Monstrosity. However, it would be nice if lizards could aggro chigoes. They are currently very difficult to engage when playing as a lizard.

Diorama Abdhaljs
Yes, yes, a million times, yes!

Gestation Duration:
Gestation limitation is very important in PvP; otherwise, players could just stay invisible and stalk a a monipulator until it is down to a sliver of health from fighting normal monsters, and then they drop gestation and kill the monipulator in one nuke. Therefore, I support the developers' stance on this as well. Also, Babekeke, when traveling long distances, you can log out and log back in to reobain gestation. Not a practical strategy to use to stalk people, but it's a great way to get across Uleg in less than 30 minutes when playing as a slow monipulator.

Now, an issue: unequal speed during gestation:
All monipulators should have an equal starting point when gestating. However, when playing as slow monsters such as wamouracampa, adamantoise, and marid, our speed is severely penalized even when gestating. Can gestation speed be a constant value, rather than being a multiplier with the monipulator's normal speed as the base? In other words, when gestating, raptors and wamouracampas would both run at raptor-like speed. But without gestation, they'd have their normal speeds.

Kaiichi

11-23-2013, 02:02 PM

Can we get party setting when getting experience? not when fighting gladiators, just when gathering exp? Soloing can be a drag.

Firinia

11-24-2013, 05:33 AM

Can we get party setting when getting experience? not when fighting gladiators, just when gathering exp? Soloing can be a drag.

I second this! I've leveled a huge number of monipulators and I can say... it really does start to drag... Not only that, it starts to become a chore, and can get kinda lonely soloing all the time. :<

I really hope co-op play of some sort between mons, or even other regular players, comes around the bend soon. It's something I really look forward to if/when it happens. :)

Edyth

11-24-2013, 02:06 PM

HNM and NM faculty point bonus needs to transfer to non-belligerency areas or there is no point in exiting belligerency. In fact, there's little point in leaving Buburimu alone, since there's no risk of a level 30 gladiator beating a decent monipulator, and since massacring tons of easy prey in 1-4 hits each amounts to much faster EXP than killing higher level monsters slowly. The lack of faculty point bonuses outside belligerency makes it so that leveling outside Bubu/Xarc/Uleg is even more sluggish.

Unless you make it so that there's incentive to leave Buburimu (besides boredom), you might as well not add any more areas besides Abdhaljs. :( Also, with the large number of species, the EXP for each level needs to be reduced starting from level 50 (or even earlier) onwards.

dasva

11-24-2013, 04:14 PM

I find it's a bit faster to just ignore nm/hnm points and lvl elsewhere. Most monsters can at least chain 5 on VTs for 1800 xp if they can pick there prey better than those limited 3 zones (demons and undead only are pretty ugg) which is mighty fast lol. Of course if you have more than 9999 infamy you wont get anything so you either bite that bullet or keep siphoning off. Of course since I've bought all instincts and monsters I can awhile that means letting another character kill me to build their prestige... but if they I don't go to 20k there wont be a chance to get alloy tonic+1. And the nq are praticaly useless lol. Of course not all monsters can do that. I'm looking at you chigoe <.<.

Byrth

11-24-2013, 11:44 PM

Maybe it's just because my server is sleepy and I've only been leveling at NA times, but I've been XPing almost only in the NQ/NM/HNM zones. I did 9-32 in Buburimu, went 32-60 in Xarcabard, and now I'm looking at the jump to U.range.

HNM status is awesome, but if you don't have the instincts to take full advantage of it, there's kind of no reason to push for it and use these zones.

Edyth

11-25-2013, 01:25 AM

I have plenty of instincts, more than I can use even with HNM status. My monsters take a devastating drop in power if I drop HNM status.

If you went all the way to 60 in Xarcabard, I'm sure you haven't tried going back to Buburimu. Xarcabard chains start to die at 51/52, and from then on, the monsters take an eternity (relative to Bubu) to whittle down for the same amount of EXP as a monster that dies in 1-4 hits in Buburimu. Xarc monsers also pile on status effects like they're milk on cereal, and they aggro and link enough to take your HP down. Xarcabard is COMPLETELY pointless at 53+. You can't chain anymore.

There are brief level ranges where it is better to chain in Xarc/Uleg, but when those chains dry up, it's back to Buburimu. Other HNMs on my server are catching on too, and boy, is Buburimu getting old here on Quetz.

Buburimu tip: it's the Mighoya Dunes and Kibubu Lighthouse parts of the zone that make most of monstrosity's EXP options a waste of time.

dasva

11-25-2013, 05:02 AM

They really just need to lift the 10k infamy cap on non belligerancy zones. And add zones for all mob sizes that have mobs over lvl 100. Going from 60k+ xp an hour to like 10-30k just so I can keep getting infamy or because everything is too low of a level is kinda fail.

Themailman

11-26-2013, 04:13 PM

I got spoiled......I started this 2 weeks ago during the event celebration. Being my first time I didn't realize double xp was applied. I was having a blast and I still am!!.....but xp shrunk bad on 25th.I agree with others if we got to use infamy to get xp bonus, or just have it permanent for Monstrosity. My 2 kids have their own character on separate accounts and they love this cause it's a lot like pokemon, the FFXI version, but son got kinda discouraged when he noticed the xp drop too. I'm not even close to unlocking all monster, but i'd love to have the chance to be an Imp, or Demon and my kids liked having elementals in Pankration. I'd die if I got to be Vrtra!! So while I dream of those, it'd be cool to be any mob in game, even if we earn no instinct from them, just so we could have fun with them all. Gotta "catch" them all! Thanks SE for a really great event!.Feels like the old days lvling low jobs to 99 w/o doing abyssea! :D

Demon6324236

11-26-2013, 09:44 PM

So far as the PvP aspect in this event goes, while it is fun and can be very enjoyable I think there should be some way to penalize people for taking advantage of monsters. What I mean is that I can often find myself leveling in an area such as Uleg as low as 53, yet players at level 90 not only can attack me, with a 37 level gap, but can also attack at the most opportunistic of times, such as when my HP is low, say, 10%, and I am recovering from a battle, some players will swoop in and kill me while I can do nothing about it. These two things make it very annoying, either one can lead to a swift defeat that is unavoidable unless you run, and that in itself is a problem, running from a battle is far to easy, same with abusing monsters being able to heal. Sleeping your enemy and walking away a few steps can allow your auto-regen to kick in and heal you a great deal, while players have no such ability.

I have been Ambushed with a large level gap 3 times, 2 times I had the luck of fighting someone who was understanding, and left me alone because it was unfair, I have had 3 encounters with people who were waiting for my HP to be low, 2 of which, I pulled through and won with strategy and skill, as well as the fact I was on monsters which were RDMs, allowing me a great deal of power, but the 3rd, I was on a WAR, at 10% HP I had no hope of winning, and died quickly. I understand fixing some of these will be difficult, but I just want to point them out because together they do hurt the amount of fun that can be had with the event.

The last issue is the prices of items bought with Prestige should be drastically lowered. Monsters are so strong that it is nearly impossible to kill 1 solo at the same level as you are, the maximum gain possible is 10,000 Prestige, that's if you beat a HNM with capped Infamy, a task that is never easy, if you fight them with a full Alliance you get only around 500 Infamy, 50 kills of capped Infamy HNMs to get enough for the base piece alone! The need to get just 25,000 for a piece of gear, and then so much more for a capped piece of gear, let alone letting it evolve into something better, and then upgrading that, its just not really fair. This content needs to last a while, and trust me, its working, many people enjoy it, and its what I myself spend the majority of my time doing even, but the PvP aspect just isn't rewarding to me. This one, is easy to fix, but its more a matter of how you wish to fix it, the new prices you set, the ideal amounts needed to upgrade, and so on. If you make the prices this high, no one will do it unless they abuse it, simply because otherwise, its far to slow, to tedious, who would bother with such a thing?

Demon6324236

11-26-2013, 10:56 PM

2. If Kuftal Tunnel is added, set one of the spawn points behind the moving rock so that we can access the higher level monsters at any time of the day.This can be problematic, I hate the idea of getting stuck back there at level 60 and having to die till I don't get popped back there, at the same time, its not a fun idea to have to die repeatedly at a higher level to get that pop spot either, just so I can level up in the zone.

Gestation Duration:
Gestation limitation is very important in PvP; otherwise, players could just stay invisible and stalk a a monipulator until it is down to a sliver of health from fighting normal monsters, and then they drop gestation and kill the monipulator in one nuke. Therefore, I support the developers' stance on this as well. Also, Babekeke, when traveling long distances, you can log out and log back in to reobain gestation. Not a practical strategy to use to stalk people, but it's a great way to get across Uleg in less than 30 minutes when playing as a slow monipulator.This really does not work. I can go out on RDM/SCH and Invisible/Sneak myself as soon as I pop, find a monster, and follow them. Nothing is different than my movement speed during this, I can still be targeted just like under Gestation, I can still attack, and I can still take advantage of monsters. I do not do this, but I know its possible, and has happened to me, limiting it sounds good for balance but its just as bad as it is good. I often level in Uleg at around level 53, I can fight the monsters at the entrance, nothing else, however of the 5~ish spots I can pop, only 2 can get me there before it wears, there is a 3rd, but I have to fight the Bats in the caves, which are a pain, and the last 2 are on the other side of the zone, with no hope of getting there in time, not even close. So it really limits a monster's ability to do things, and gives next to no real benefit, in my opinion.

Babekeke

11-27-2013, 04:01 AM

This really does not work. I can go out on RDM/SCH and Invisible/Sneak myself as soon as I pop, find a monster, and follow them. Nothing is different than my movement speed during this, I can still be targeted just like under Gestation, I can still attack, and I can still take advantage of monsters. I do not do this, but I know its possible, and has happened to me, limiting it sounds good for balance but its just as bad as it is good. I often level in Uleg at around level 53, I can fight the monsters at the entrance, nothing else, however of the 5~ish spots I can pop, only 2 can get me there before it wears, there is a 3rd, but I have to fight the Bats in the caves, which are a pain, and the last 2 are on the other side of the zone, with no hope of getting there in time, not even close. So it really limits a monster's ability to do things, and gives next to no real benefit, in my opinion.

Precisely.

I knew about the logging off trick since before PvP was released as it was the only way to get through some areas of crawler's nest and toraimorai canal, which were among my favourite levelling spots, when on a job with no sneak/invis.

I'm not asking for the same 18 hour gestation as was given for non-pvp zones (and tbh 18 hours seems a little over-kill anyway) but just 5 mins would be far more beneficial.

In Uleg if you're on a lvl 50 job on a slow moving mob like adamantoise or marid, you are pretty much limited to just 1 spawn point to get to camp without having to fight anything or weave your way around the mobs. And Marid is war/war only >.>

Edyth

11-27-2013, 05:58 AM

Could we have monipulators' species-based elemental weaknesses (represented by a negative number) and resistances reflected in the status screen? It would be nice to have this information. Perhaps we'll learn some weaknesses are worth compensating for using instincts if the negative value is low enough.

Demon6324236

11-27-2013, 06:25 AM

Edyth

11-27-2013, 07:19 AM

Are there any plans to add monsters which use TP attacks for normal attacks? For instance, I notice we have access to the majority of Lizards, the only real ones I can think of that are missing are Matamata and Tojil races, or for Vermin where we have no Mantid. It would be great to know if these will be playable, and if so, are you holding off for now to release them later or are you having technical issues with implementing them? I ask because ever since I saw the original idea for Monstrosity, I have wanted to play as some of these, the original example I remember was Undead with Naraka, and I instantly wanted to be a Mantid or Gallu, so information on this would be awesome!

I remember the Naraka as well.

We are currently missing the following monsters:

Beasts: Yztargs, Raaz, new Sheep and Ram forms from Kamihr
Lizards: Matamatas, Gabbraths
Vermin: Apian Beasts, Bztavians, Mantids, Chapuli, Twitherym
Plantoids: Belladonnas, Leafkin, Snapweeds, Yggdreants, many forms of Treant (unless undiscovered)

The following patterns exist:
1. No Seekers of Adoulin families, but SOME special forms are okay if they come from the initial Adoulin areas (Coral Wamoura, Lapinion)
2. No families introduced in Voidwatch, but special forms are okay (like Unusual Wivre)
3. No AoE attackers (do Apian Beasts and Yztargs fall under this category?)

We know the following pattern DOES NOT exist:
1. Families introduced in Meeble Burrows are not off-limits: we have Panopts

Vagrua

11-27-2013, 10:53 PM

It would be convenient to have that double exp always apply to Monstrosity. Players have Abyssea to level nonstop from alliances from 30 & beyond within a few hours to 99. The double exp would definitely help the grind from 60+ in Monstrosity. Could we have it always apply to Monstrosity?

Firinia

11-28-2013, 04:51 AM

I remember the Naraka as well.

We are currently missing the following monsters:

Beasts: Yztargs, Raaz, new Sheep and Ram forms from Kamihr
Lizards: Matamatas, Gabbraths
Vermin: Apian Beasts, Bztavians, Mantids, Chapuli, Twitherym
Plantoids: Belladonnas, Leafkin, Snapweeds, Yggdreants, many forms of Treant (unless undiscovered)

The following patterns exist:
1. No Seekers of Adoulin families, but SOME special forms are okay if they come from the initial Adoulin areas (Coral Wamoura, Lapinion)
2. No families introduced in Voidwatch, but special forms are okay (like Unusual Wivre)
3. No AoE attackers (do Apian Beasts and Yztargs fall under this category?)

We know the following pattern DOES NOT exist:
1. Families introduced in Meeble Burrows are not off-limits: we have Panopts

We haven't actually gotten anything exclusive to Adoulin, because that pink Wamoura (Grannus boss) is also from Meeble Burrows, as well as the Lapinion. Both were introduced in the Batalia Downs Meeble Burrows, I believe. That was before we had Adoulin.

Okipuit

12-03-2013, 10:23 AM

Can we get party setting when getting experience? not when fighting gladiators, just when gathering exp? Soloing can be a drag.

We definitely understand how you feel about this, and we are planning content for Monstrosity parties right now! It's an opportune time to let us know what you would like to see content-wise, so feel free to leave your suggestions!

Edyth

12-03-2013, 12:14 PM

We definitely understand how you feel about this, and we are planning content for Monstrosity parties right now! It's an opportune time to let us know what you would like to see content-wise, so feel free to leave your suggestions!

What I and much of the community would like to see content-wise!

Double EXP: Currently, monipulators cannot use EXP rings, nor can they enter Abyssea, nor can they complete quests or FoV/GoV for experience points. Monipulators should have a method to obtain additional EXP. Some possible options would be by unlocking the feature permanently with key items, by trading an EXP ring to the Odyssean Passage in the Feretory to use a charge as a MON, or simply doubling EXP at all time for all montsers within the event.
Voidwatch and Adoulin monsters: I was so pumped to play as Harpeia! I've wanted to play as one ever since this event was announced. However, no monster families introduced in either VW or Adoulin have been added yet. Please do this! Yztargs, twitherym, mantids, chapuli, apian beasts, harpeia, botuli, Bismarck's family (I forget the name), raaz, matamatas, gabbraths, Kumhau's family, belladonnas (Morta), craklaws, acuexes, etc., still be missing from our monster types after this update. If AoE standard attacks are an issue, make them attack normally, I don't care, but please add them!!
NM and HNM faculty bonuses should apply outside of Belligerency as well. The fact that they do not means that very weak monipulators desperately in need of the bonuses (raptors, chigoes, buffalos, crawlers come to mind) can only be leveled efficiently in buburimu peninsula level capped at thirty.
Please do not nerf monipulators. Some desperately need buffs (chigoe is the worst, I hear), and only in the MOST EXTREME situations of unintentional omnipotence should any monipulators be nerfed. They do not upset the balance of the game because they affect only a very small portion of FFXI's content. Furthermore, some misdirected nerfs (raptors, for example), make a large portion of the monstrosity community live in dread of any random monipulator being nerfed to the point of misery.
For people who don't have mage jobs leveled, it would be nice if they could somehow obtain those spells for their monipulators by alternate means; for example, by trading the scroll to one of the corpselights. This is mostly an issue for new players, but it would help them experience the variety of monstrosity.
Please allow us to choose to have the electric guitar monstrosity music play ONLY during battle, so that we can hear the zone themes outside of battle. I miss the beautiful music in Lufaise, Misareaux, Ronfaure, and Altepa, and the disappearance of Gustaberg's haunting music makes me sad. I'll never be leveling a normal job in Gustaberg again, but I want to hear the music of my very first days in FFXI again while I level in Monstrosity.
Cameo monsters, yes please! Slime and Spriggan were a great idea. Maybe some Lightning Returns or FFX crossover monipulators someday? Perhaps the pets used by the tamer dressphere in FFX-2, Kogoro, Ghiki, and Flurry? Or Yojimbo's dog Daigoro from X?
Lastly, keep up the great work! We passionately care about this content that you've created, and it's brought us a lot of hours of fun.

Edit: rams are good, buffalos are bad! Fixed that.

Alhanelem

12-08-2013, 03:15 AM

I second everything in the above post.

NM and HNM faculty bonuses should apply outside of Belligerency as well. The fact that they do not means that very weak monipulators desperately in need of the bonuses (raptors, chigoes, rams, crawlers come to mind) can only be leveled efficiently in buburimu peninsula level capped at thirty.
Additionally, it creates an annoying hassle where you have to change your faculties whenever you want to play in a non-belligerency area.

Mefuki

12-08-2013, 08:07 AM

It's an opportune time to let us know what you would like to see content-wise, so feel free to leave your suggestions!

Very well.

More Job Coverage: As more monster are added, be creative about their jobs and job combinations. Summmoners, Blue Mage, Beastmasters, etc. Eventually I'd like to see all the jobs and job combinations represented.

Full TP Movelists: A lot of monipulators are still missing one/some of their TP moves: Floral Bouquet for Rafflesia, Call of The Moon for Gnole, Grim Glower for Peistes, etc etc. Whether we unlock these via spending large amounts of Infamy like we have to to unlock certain sub-species or perhaps from quests of some sort or from reaching level 99 with a particular monster, they're still missing.

Full Monster Family List: Like it has already been said, out of just the families currently released, we're missing; Yztarg, Twitherym, Mantid, Chapuli, Apian Beasts, Raaz, Matamata, Gabbrath, Cehuetzi, Bztavian, Yggdreant, Belladonna, Snapweed, Leafkin and any associated subspecies. I'd like to see the monster family lists filled out. I imagine you have plans to do so already (in particular for the Naakual, who I imagine will require a rather large time and/or Infamy cost to unlock), so this is just a reminder to not forgot about all these guys.

Classic and Modern NM/HNM Traits: I'd like to see En-enfeeble effects, auras, withdrawing into shells (similar to Aspidochelone), absorbing certain elements to heal, Draw-in, summoning additional monsters (Like Alpha Gnole Anders), or other traits that NMs have that make them difficult/tactically interesting. This can really add an extra layer of depth when Mon Vs. MON is released. You could even make a separate, smaller equipment screen for these special traits and quirks. (just look to other NM's you've made in the past for more examples. Be creative like you've tried to be when making NM's).

Access to Trust Magic: If necessary for balance sake or some other reason, you could perhaps just allow us access to them when we're not fighting other players in Belligerency. But it'd be nice to have the boon to solo EXPing.

As far as the strict definition of content goes:

NM/HNM PvE: Whether we can get teleported to a special arena, have them spawn in the Feretory or be given the ability to actually go to the zone itself and pop the NM as a Monipulator, it'd be great to be able to fight, let's say, Bukhis, Tsui-Goab, Umagrhk, or Medusa for examples. You COULD make them drop their associated rewards or something else entirely since when we're under the effects of Belligerency things DO drop to us so we know it's possible. Of course, I leave that up to you on how to balance rewards and such. I mostly just want to pit my monster(s) against some past NM/HNM's and tough monsters.

BCNM Access: I'd also like to participate in BCNM. Maybe we'd have to pay the cost with the appropriate item (Cloud Evokers, the appropriate Orbs, etc) beforehand or something. Maybe we could get something for clearing certain tiers of BCNM. Maybe at the end, we could even be given the chance to re-fight mission and end expansion bosses that we've already beaten (Ouryu, Ark Angels, Promathia, Shinryu, Provenance Watcher, etc) and get a reward for beating that. Maybe we'd unlock a special pygmy skin of some of the end bosses for beating them (Ok, that last one is a long shot even with pipe dream thinking :P)

Lastly but very importantly, this is something that has to happen to keep the content relevant:

Reward Improvements: Improve the quality of rewards that can be gained from PvP as well as future MONvMON content. Doesn't have to be the best gear in the game necessarily but I think you know the importance of proper incentive by now, SE. Gladiators need reasons to go NM hunting and NM's need reasons to hunt/stick around to fight Gladiators.

Thank you very much for this content. It's what brought me back to the game and it's one of my favourite things to do when playing. Given the proper attention and depth, this could potentially be a great strategic system akin to, say, the Pokemon battle system in complexity.