This thread AGAIN, please, fix WK. [Archive]

Demon6324236

08-05-2013, 11:36 AM

So far it hasn't been random for me. out of three NM's and KI I have gotten my Drg Tlamini, Bee droped Xuxhat for my Whm, And shark droped Cbow. I consider Tlamini my drop from shark.Did you do any fight twice? If not, your post is irrelevant, the problem is not the first battle, or even the second most of the time, its that you get a drop 100% of the time unless you already have the drop in which case you get nothing at all besides worthless craft items. This is where it becomes random, because if I so happen to go do Hurkan and get the Scythe, Axe, Bullet, or Grip, I get nothing at all as a reward. That, is a very large problem...

While I agree bayld takes some time to build up. I disagree that there aren't other ways to aquire bayld at a more rapid pace.When did I say there are no ways to build it faster? I only said it takes a long time to build up unlike VW.

VW had a system where you could go, get nothing, and walk away being ok with it most of the time because you expected nothing, but at the same time, you had stones which accumulated rapidly in the background for you while you went off & did whatever else you needed to do, and the stones had no other use. Bayld is vastly different in the respect you have to actively farm it specifically and then spend it on specifically this 1 Wildskeeper, there are many uses for Bayld, to use so much of it on this one fight but walk away with nothing because its an item you already had is ridiculous. Its not like VW in the fact we have such a large supply of what we need to go fight it at our finger tips, to walk away without any real sort of reward after this kind of battle with this kind of cost is stupid, and needs to be fixed. It was acceptable with VW, but here, no, its not really going to go over well with anyone who wants a specific item and does not get it their first few times. I myself have done a total of 9 fights against the new Wildskeepers, I walked away with 5 items, out of the 12, 4 fights I got nothing, the 5 items I did get I literally got none of the items I wanted for RDM, rather, I get every single one I did not. I can choose 1 item I want for free via the Library, but 1 item is stupid to pick, I would rather save it till I have all but 1, and choose that 1, so until I get my other 6 items, I have no plans to use that free item.

OmnysValefor

08-05-2013, 12:12 PM

VW fights are also incomparably faster. Even when some were hard, you had a half hour and that was that.

Also, if you wiped, you lost nothing. The popper would lose his Voidstone but noone else did.

OmnysValefor

08-05-2013, 12:16 PM

Is it people in your group... and I'm sure people dieing effects drop rate of loot somehow.....consistent dieing could make the loot obtained less common... IDK how SE has the loot system set up inside the rieves and how people achieve better loot.. but i assume since it's a community event and people need to work together them not performing also effects your drops as well...

You're making stuff up here. But, since the tree has a doom aura that cursna from an honest pro whm and holy waters don't always get you through, and the bird.. the bird can do over 1000 magic damage to an mdt-capped aegis pld (if it uses it's mdef move and the whm's don't get it right away).. deaths are going to happen.

I died 5? Times at Hurkan today. It is the way of the paladin, you should be the first to die and the last to surrender. I've done Hurkans where I died 0 times, trees where I've died once, and still got nothing.

Tired of this.

and as far as Buremte's gloves go nice. Hopefully things work out for you I'd advise doing shouts to help coordinate efforts amongst the people who can read and understand during the rieve.. Whms need to be ready with bar spels and status removal spells quite often during the fight... are the whms not preventing deaths?

This isn't a matter of people not knowing how to play their jobs.

Umichi

08-05-2013, 12:23 PM

Did you do any fight twice? If not, your post is irrelevant, the problem is not the first battle, or even the second most of the time, its that you get a drop 100% of the time unless you already have the drop in which case you get nothing at all besides worthless craft items. This is where it becomes random, because if I so happen to go do Hurkan and get the Scythe, Axe, Bullet, or Grip, I get nothing at all as a reward. That, is a very large problem...

When did I say there are no ways to build it faster? I only said it takes a long time to build up unlike VW.

VW had a system where you could go, get nothing, and walk away being ok with it most of the time because you expected nothing, but at the same time, you had stones which accumulated rapidly in the background for you while you went off & did whatever else you needed to do, and the stones had no other use. Bayld is vastly different in the respect you have to actively farm it specifically and then spend it on specifically this 1 Wildskeeper, there are many uses for Bayld, to use so much of it on this one fight but walk away with nothing because its an item you already had is ridiculous. Its not like VW in the fact we have such a large supply of what we need to go fight it at our finger tips, to walk away without any real sort of reward after this kind of battle with this kind of cost is stupid, and needs to be fixed. It was acceptable with VW, but here, no, its not really going to go over well with anyone who wants a specific item and does not get it their first few times. I myself have done a total of 9 fights against the new Wildskeepers, I walked away with 5 items, out of the 12, 4 fights I got nothing, the 5 items I did get I literally got none of the items I wanted for RDM, rather, I get every single one I did not. I can choose 1 item I want for free via the Library, but 1 item is stupid to pick, I would rather save it till I have all but 1, and choose that 1, so until I get my other 6 items, I have no plans to use that free item.

I still don't understand.... you keep doing the fights to get what you want.. if you have everything from it that you need then you've outgrown the Nm and should be focusing on other content..

Demon6324236

08-05-2013, 12:59 PM

I still don't understand.... you keep doing the fights to get what you want.. if you have everything from it that you need then you've outgrown the Nm and should be focusing on other content..Its not that you have everything from it. If I go fight it once and get 1 of its 6 drops, then fight 100 more times and get the same drop every 1 of those 100 times, I will get nothing. I can keep fighting it, but no real way to know if I will get what I want because it is random on which item you get.

Umichi

08-05-2013, 10:25 PM

I believe if you hold onto the items in question it won't drop again. -5 inv while your farming isn't to bad. I'm sure you could find space somewhere in yourMH for them :)

SpankWustler

08-06-2013, 12:43 AM

I believe if you hold onto the items in question it won't drop again. -5 inv while your farming isn't to bad. I'm sure you could find space somewhere in yourMH for them :)

http://i.imgflip.com/1bgw.jpg

Vivivivi

08-06-2013, 02:10 AM

http://i40.tinypic.com/2diisdw.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/5tyskk.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/206d8au.jpg

:(

OmnysValefor

08-06-2013, 02:57 AM

I believe if you hold onto the items in question it won't drop again. -5 inv while your farming isn't to bad. I'm sure you could find space somewhere in yourMH for them :)

Yes, precisely, I got the grip the first time, and the bullet the second time. I still have both, and in each successive fight, have gotten nothing but capes or mats. Keeping the loot doesn't alter the potential loot pool, it just means you won't get it again. Keeping the bullet doesn't mean that next time the loot system will only pick from everything besides the bullet.

Demon6324236

08-06-2013, 03:14 AM

I believe if you hold onto the items in question it won't drop again. -5 inv while your farming isn't to bad. I'm sure you could find space somewhere in yourMH for them :)I have held onto the Bullet incase I ever finish working on COR, kept the Axe because I like BST, I only got it on the wrong character, kept Scythe because I used to play DRK a lot, but now don't, so if I ever go back I have something nice, also kept the neck for COR & the Grip for if I ever skill up another 2-handed weapon.

While all of that is the case, thankfully these screenshots were posted by Vivi, which proves what I have been trying to explain.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2diisdw.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/5tyskk.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/206d8au.jpg

:(If you look at these, the rewards for the battle are being given, but no armor or weapons are included due to the fact Vivi already had them in their inventory.

Think of it this way, you play a game at a carnival or something like that where the person tells you that you have to pay 2 dollars to roll a die, every person who comes up can only win each prize once, he will not give out doubles to anyone. You see something you want, and fail to find it anywhere else, so you choose to play his game. You pay once and roll a 5, the item you want is a 3, so he gives you the prize for your 5 and you pay again, now you get a 2, and get that prize, but still not what you wanted. Without giving up hope you roll once more, and now get a 5 again, he tells you since you already have one of the prizes he gives out for a #5,, he will not give you another, but at the same time, he will not give you a free reroll either. Now you have to keep rolling, over, and over again, but you can not get repeats as this person knows you have one of that prize already, while he also will not give you rerolls if you roll something you already have.

That, is basically what we have here. If you have the item, no rerolls, and as you said, in a way, it will not drop. However, that is not to say they did not roll for that drop, accept it as your reward, and simply not show it. Since you have it already & its impossible for you to get multiple of the item due to its 'rare' tag, you are limited to that single one, and as such, when one drops, it shows nothing, after all why would it? You have it already and they know that, since its rare & would fall to the floor anyways instantly & without warning it simply does not show it. In the case of VW its different because its an item in a box, and in parties its different because every member has to have the item in question for it to simply 'vanish' from your rewards due to a repeat drop. But a simple way for you to test this & see for yourself is to simply find an item that is a 100% drop from a NM or monster, or at least a very high drop, and simply kill it a few times over and over again with its reward in your inventory. You will quickly notice that the 100% drop is not dropping for you, its not because its not 100% though, its because you already have one, and it does not show R items in your log as dropping when everyone receiving that reward already has it in their inventory somewhere.

Daemon

08-06-2013, 03:25 AM

http://i40.tinypic.com/2diisdw.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/5tyskk.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/206d8au.jpg

:(

225k Bayld for 2 ore and 1 log... My computer screen would be shattered by the aura of my anger.

svengalis

08-06-2013, 03:33 AM

225k Bayld for 2 ore and 1 log... My computer screen would be shattered by the aura of my anger.

only 150k if you do assignments. :p

Zarchery

08-06-2013, 10:03 AM

If you're making formal suggestions to the development team for the game, it might be appropriate to spell out names and not abbreviate.

FrankReynolds

08-06-2013, 10:51 AM

If you're making formal suggestions to the development team for the game, it might be appropriate to spell out names and not abbreviate.

Why? They don't read this. Translators do it and they know what we mean.

Anyways... I don't think deaths or damage on the NM affect drops. I got the mask and a bunch of other people got loot after a particularly messy Tchakka run that took like 6 hours (I was only there for about 2.5) for no real reason. I think I died about 30 times that fight. I didn't even cap bayld because I foolishly went SAM/DNC and spent half the time hiding from Krab AOE moves. The NM roamed through the resting / mage area and killed everyone about ten times and even when he wasn't there, people were constantly getting killed by AOE moves in the middle. I never even performed an action on the NM other than dieing to it's AOE.

Mostfowl

08-06-2013, 12:40 PM

Fynlar

08-06-2013, 03:21 PM

Think of it this way, you play a game at a carnival or something like that where the person tells you that you have to pay 2 dollars to roll a die, every person who comes up can only win each prize once, he will not give out doubles to anyone. You see something you want, and fail to find it anywhere else, so you choose to play his game. You pay once and roll a 5, the item you want is a 3, so he gives you the prize for your 5 and you pay again, now you get a 2, and get that prize, but still not what you wanted. Without giving up hope you roll once more, and now get a 5 again, he tells you since you already have one of the prizes he gives out for a #5,, he will not give you another, but at the same time, he will not give you a free reroll either. Now you have to keep rolling, over, and over again, but you can not get repeats as this person knows you have one of that prize already, while he also will not give you rerolls if you roll something you already have.

It's not even like that. These fights are programmed to give you the non- weapon and armor drops more often. From Hurkan you will get the bullet/grip way more often than the other drops, for instance (so far from 6 Hurkans I've gotten 4 bullets and 2 grips). So it's like a loaded die.

Daemon

08-06-2013, 03:25 PM

It's not even like that. These fights are programmed to give you the non- weapon and armor drops more often. From Hurkan you will get the bullet/grip way more often than the other drops, for instance (so far from 6 Hurkans I've gotten 4 bullets and 2 grips). So it's like a loaded die.

Look at what you are saying...
You cannot expect Hekas to drop everytime someone plays 1-6 rounds of Akvaan. What about defending ring from King Behemoth?

Yes it takes time to earn the godly equipment but what did I just say?

"Godly Equipment."

People already complained there's nothing else to do besides Delve / Wildskeeper rieves. When everyone gets what they want after how long the Devs took to provide the content will people be complaining that we need more?

Once you get what everything you wanted are you going to play that boss again? I highly doubt anyone is going to save up the Bayld and do a nakuaal that has no other gear they need just out of boredom.

Fynlar

08-06-2013, 03:31 PM

and 2 grips). So it's like a loaded die.
Look at what you are saying...
You cannot expect Hekas to drop everytime someone plays 1-6 rounds of Akvaan. What about defending ring from King Behemoth?

Yes it takes time to earn the godly equipment but what did I just say?

"Godly Equipment."

People already complained there's nothing else to do besides Delve / Wildskeeper rieves. When everyone gets what they want after how long the Devs took to provide the content will people be complaining that we need more?

It isn't even godly equipment, really. Even if you just look at the item level, it's not top tier.

As soon as these zones have their Delve equivalents, they will be considered trash again, just like the gear from the first Wildskeepers were when Delve v1 came out.

Also, you don't pay 25-50k bayld for each shot at Akvan, either.

Daemon

08-06-2013, 03:34 PM

It isn't even godly equipment, really. Even if you just look at the item level, it's not top tier.

As soon as these zones have their Delve equivalents, they will be considered trash again, just like the gear from the first Wildskeepers were when Delve v1 came out.

Also, you don't pay 25-50k bayld for each shot at Akvan, either.

I've done Qilin over 2,000 times and still didn't get a coruscanti. That's a reason to compare and surpass your example of saving 25-50k Bayld. Although I thought it was 50-75k Bayld but compare the stats from gear off Nakuaals to coruscanti?

And I thought if you earned enough ki's you can still get what you wanted unlike Voidwatch.

SpankWustler

08-06-2013, 03:42 PM

If you're making formal suggestions to the development team for the game, it might be appropriate to spell out names and not abbreviate.

Are you really concerned that someone will walk away from this thread wondering why Andrew W.K. must urgently be repaired?

http://www.metalsucks.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Andrew-WK-Grumpy-Cat1.jpg

He's not broken, guys, he's just grumpy! It's all okay!

Demon6324236

08-06-2013, 03:47 PM

So it's like a loaded die.Ok so it would be more accurate to say a 12 sided die, 3 1s, 3 2s, 2 3s, 2 4s, 1 5, and 1 6. You have the highest likelihood of getting 1s & 2s, Bullet/Grip/Gorget/Cape, less of a chance at getting 3s & 4s, weapons I'm guessing, and the least chance at rolling 5 or 6, the gear. I feel that is a more accurate comparison.

Daemon

08-06-2013, 04:17 PM

It isn't even godly equipment, really. Even if you just look at the item level, it's not top tier.

2 pieces of gear dropped off Hurkan.

Uk'uxkaj boots
Description:
DEF:39 HP+10 MP+13 STR+8 DEX+9 VIT+8 AGI+28 INT+15 MND+16 CHR+29 Evasion+43 Magic Evasion+93 Enhances enfeebling magic effect

Armor Information
Races:All Races Equipment slot: Feet
Level:99
Jobs: White Mage / Black Mage / Red Mage / Bard / Summoner / Scholar / Geomancer

Uk'uxkaj cap
Description: DEF:60 HP+28 MP+22 STR+22 DEX+25 VIT+22 AGI+25 INT+22 MND+22 CHR+23 Evasion+34 Magic Evasion+46 Critical Hit Rate+3% Haste+7%

Armor Information
Races:All Races Equipment slot: Head
Level:99
Jobs: Monk / Thief / Ranger / Ninja / Blue Mage / Corsair / Puppetmaster / Dancer / Rune Fencer

And that's not Godly?

I wonder how much Gil does a person spend doing colonization rieves to earn Bayld vs a person with 0 VW stones & cruor wasting half the day joining an abyssea exp party to earn cruor to buy cells and purchase Voiddust with Gil spamming Qilin more than 12 hours a day to reach 2,000 kills and still not get a dagger.

OmnysValefor

08-06-2013, 04:45 PM

Daemon

08-06-2013, 04:47 PM

Dopped off Hurkan
Hunahpu
Description: DMG:140 Delay:288 STR+12 DEX+12 Axe skill +188 Parrying skill +188 Pet: Accuracy+30 Haste+3%

Weapon Information
Races:All Races
Weapon Skill:Axe
Damage:140
Delay:288
DPS:29.17
TP/Hit:7.6
Level:99
Jobs: Beastmaster

VS.

Dropped off Morta
Aytanri
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120811164413/ffxi/images/e/ec/Aytanri.png

VS.

Earned from Delve
Kerehcatl
Description: DMG:156 Delay:288 Accuracy+28 Attack+25 Pet: Accuracy+28 Attack+28

I wonder how much damage would Hunahpu deal with 140 Damage, 12 STR & 188 Axe skill? Would this surpass the 156 Base DMG Kerehcatl and the rank upgrade maxed at 15? I'm not a math guy and I'm too lazy to actually do the research and try to figure out this however the point of bringing up these 3 weapons...

What are the possibilities of obtaining each item? How long would it take? Do they really have such a huge difference in the time it takes to earn one?

What about REM?

Daemon

08-06-2013, 04:52 PM

The boots and cap are certainly amazing right now, however, all gear is going to look this amazing because they're artificially inflating our level and making this absurdly complex.

I would so much just rather be level 110 than all this crazy gear.

Yeah I'd rather SE incorporated power through level and stats than have more gear added on to the inventory crisis..

Fynlar

08-06-2013, 04:56 PM

I've done Qilin over 2,000 times and still didn't get a coruscanti. That's a reason to compare and surpass your example of saving 25-50k Bayld. Although I thought it was 50-75k Bayld but compare the stats from gear off Nakuaals to coruscanti?

You should be getting back 25k bayld from the fight unless you're a COR, which means it only ends up costing 25-50k.

And I thought if you earned enough ki's you can still get what you wanted unlike Voidwatch.

Only one item, from one mob, once. If it was repeatable (and it really should be), there'd be less of a gripe because you could still make sure progress toward the items you wanted.

And that's not Godly?

Not really, no. It just looks that way right now because that was some of the only gear (along with Ixtab and the other weapons) to have their item level stats fully implemented upon release. Now that all ilvl gear has their proper stats, these things look much less impressive in comparison.

And again, as soon as these zones' Delve variants come out, these items will all be considered trash again, and Wildskeeper v2 will go the way of the dodo just as quickly as Wildskeeper v1 did, if not sooner.

By the way, Coruscanti was never a top tier dagger even when it originally came out. Glowiness or rarity does not a good weapon make.

I wonder how much damage would Hunahpu deal with 140 Damage, 12 STR & 188 Axe skill? Would this surpass the 156 Base DMG Kerehcatl and the rank upgrade maxed at 15?

1) Delve MB gear cannot be mezzotinted. What you saw on the weapon is what you got
2) Item level gear now has their proper stat/skill boosts on it, so now Kere is the definite superior mainhand weapon. Prior to this patch, it's arguable that Huna would have been the better mainhand unless *possibly* if you were using one of the newer jug pets that can exceed level 114, because having Kere in the mainhand would have allowed them to go up to 119.

Demon6324236

08-06-2013, 05:00 PM

And that's not Godly?Look at every piece of Adoulin gear after todays update, you will quickly notice how these are not so far above what SE expects to be average in Adoulin content. Do not get me wrong, good gear still, great gear at that, but it is not such great gear that it is 'godly' and deserves this level of torment.

I wonder how much Gil does a person spend doing colonization rieves to earn Bayld vs a person with 0 VW stones & cruor wasting half the day joining an abyssea exp party to earn cruor to buy cells and purchase Voiddust with Gil spamming Qilin more than 12 hours a day to reach 2,000 kills and still not get a dagger.0, but that's not an important comparison. You could sit around and do nothing and the next day you would have more Voidstones waiting for you to pick them up, WKs do not. Qilin also took 18 people, 5 minutes a kill, and the time it took to get the dust or gil to buy the dust was minimal, especially if you go by back in the days of Blinkers. Now on the other hand, WKs you have to work for Bayld constantly, unlike VW stones the Bayld will not simply come back in time, the time spent on a pop is much greater fight times can be as long as 10 hours or more depending on if people come, and how many, and the amount of people needed is much, much greater than simply 18.

On top of all of that, I know you did a ton of Qilin and got no dagger, but why use that as a defense for this kind of content? This kind of screwing of the players? If anything you should use this as the exact reason its unfair and broken to do this kind of thing. All this sort of stupidity does in this game is cause people anger and annoyance when they complete the same battle over and over with no true reward of value. No matter how bad you had it before, its no reason to with the same sort of hell and pain on others in a different event.

sc4500

08-06-2013, 05:10 PM

Um? Do the quest order up and then if do the first 3 nak fights get to choose a piece of gear in the library then after you do the next 2 harder nak fights then get to choose again. So You able to choose wisely what you need. I went 5/5 on all the drops with fame 5 and 3 coalitions at contrib , have not repeated them though to see if that effect the drop.

Also if do all the seekers quest and stuff get the KI for the fights to around 35k for first 3 and 60k balyd for last 2.

One dude got his down to 25k and 55k, but a few of my buddies were not sure if , it coalitions the amount at contributers equal your fame. or dude lying. Im at 35k KI first 3 and 60k on last 2, with fame 5 and 3 coalitions at contributers.

Linku

08-06-2013, 05:11 PM

Daemon

08-06-2013, 05:24 PM

VW fights are also incomparably faster. Even when some were hard, you had a half hour and that was that.

Also, if you wiped, you lost nothing. The popper would lose his Voidstone but noone else did.

Yeah fights are faster, drop rate IMO are not.

Daemon

08-06-2013, 05:25 PM

I don't understand why people are against making a guaranteed drop in WKRs. You spend hours, along with usually 100 or more people, and a bunch of bayld. You should get an item.

I've done Yumcax about 10x now, and have gotten Ocachi Gorget and Pahtli Cape. The two worst drops for me.

It's rediculous to have it this way. It's not like anything else in the game where you can take 6 or 18 people from your LS or a shout and get it done. You need a big effort by a ton of people to do WKR, and right now a lot of people are feeling ripped off.

Seriously look at what you are saying? How long would it take if everyone on the entire server got what they wanted every fight? Then what? Devs cannot keep pumping out content every week...

I wonder how the economy would be effected when RMT could leech off 1 WR and do minimal work to get such items?

Then again how many lazy people will show up gimp and do the same?

Demon6324236

08-06-2013, 05:29 PM

I'm just going to say this now, if you bring 'Order Up' up as a solution to this issue then your an idiot. That only works for people who need only a single drop! I need 7 drops from these NMs, in 9 fights I have yet to get a single one of them, Order Up will give me 1 single item I need from these 7, 1, why would I be stupid enough to waste that right now and risk getting repeat drops on my choice later, when I can save it to get my last item I need? I wouldn't, and wont, besides that, a single choice does not help me get my other 6 drops either. This 1 quest and its other rewards are not a solution to this issue, not unless it can be repeated...

Daemon

08-06-2013, 05:30 PM

Look, wanting everything easier I get it. Wanting it effortless is another. Even I've made rants about the game but I also see it from the DEVs POV too.

Daemon

08-06-2013, 05:35 PM

Look at every piece of Adoulin gear after todays update, you will quickly notice how these are not so far above what SE expects to be average in Adoulin content. Do not get me wrong, good gear still, great gear at that, but it is not such great gear that it is 'godly' and deserves this level of torment.

0, but that's not an important comparison. You could sit around and do nothing and the next day you would have more Voidstones waiting for you to pick them up, WKs do not. Qilin also took 18 people, 5 minutes a kill, and the time it took to get the dust or gil to buy the dust was minimal, especially if you go by back in the days of Blinkers. Now on the other hand, WKs you have to work for Bayld constantly, unlike VW stones the Bayld will not simply come back in time, the time spent on a pop is much greater fight times can be as long as 10 hours or more depending on if people come, and how many, and the amount of people needed is much, much greater than simply 18.

On top of all of that, I know you did a ton of Qilin and got no dagger, but why use that as a defense for this kind of content? This kind of screwing of the players? If anything you should use this as the exact reason its unfair and broken to do this kind of thing. All this sort of stupidity does in this game is cause people anger and annoyance when they complete the same battle over and over with no true reward of value. No matter how bad you had it before, its no reason to with the same sort of hell and pain on others in a different event.

Lol teach me DJ because even I waited an entire week to an entire month only to burn those stones in a few hours.. I've spent millions of Gil even selling all my HMP and still didn't get the dagger. And yes I know it wasn't the best but it was something at the time I wanted because I don't own any REM daggers and didn't feel the need to waste my time for a job I only used for farming.

Btw I have all kis that replenish your stones faster including the one you get from PW and still ran out of stones..

I've never seen anyone kill VW bosses in 5 minutes. Can people cap red that fast?

Linku

08-06-2013, 05:38 PM

Seriously look at what you are saying? How long would it take if everyone on the entire server got what they wanted every fight? Then what?

So its better to reward 150 players spending 2+ hrs to take down Yumcax a maple log?

A better way would be to make the Library quest repeatable. Defeat all 5 Naakuls again and choose another 2 items

Daemon

08-06-2013, 05:54 PM

So its better to reward 150 players spending 2+ hrs to take down Yumcax a maple log?

A better way would be to make the Library quest repeatable. Defeat all 5 Naakuls again and choose another 2 items

Are you getting a maple log every fight? Last week I did Hurkan and got nothing. My inventory was 80/80.

I'll agree if nobody is getting any items but asking to get the best in only 1 fight is where I disagree. WR is new. Even when VW was first implemented, nobody got the best in such a short time.

The way I see it, you are talking from the point of view of a person who didn't get what you wanted. Not from the point of view from a person earning what you put effort and accomplished the reward because then maybe the boost of power from a nakuul item would change your POV as how it was worth it.

Already so many players complain that because people have Delve weapons, many people are excluding others from a good portion of the new events.

What will happen when several players stop doing Nakuuls and can't even get enough people to do them anymore?

Some complain there's nothing else to do.

What will happen when you have everything? What other goals are there for you to accomplish?

Personally I had fun even though I has to purchase the ki for 75k Bayld, I'd still do it again. Nakuul items may not be godly to some of you but to many there are players out there who are not even near close to having the ability to get one anytime soon.

This is where I feel sorry for the DEV team. They give us the content and have made several adjustments to make things easier and still people complain.

If I remember correctly kis were 100k not too long ago..
Earning Bayld through reives was harder than now..
I also thought Skirmish makes it easier to earn Bayld.

How many people would only do library quest and stop doing coalition rieves and Skirmish? Then players will argue that these events are dead and some will complain they cannot get past rieves to reach WR.

Daemon

08-06-2013, 06:26 PM

You should be getting back 25k bayld from the fight unless you're a COR, which means it only ends up costing 25-50k.

Sadly I did not reach the boss in time to earn that Bayld back. But to earn that on top of earning Bayld in Skirmish how long would it take to obtain another ki?

Only one item, from one mob, once. If it was repeatable (and it really should be), there'd be less of a gripe because you could still make sure progress toward the items you wanted.

That's better than nothing. Heck I wish VW was like that.

Not really, no. It just looks that way right now because that was some of the only gear (along with Ixtab and the other weapons) to have their item level stats fully implemented upon release. Now that all ilvl gear has their proper stats, these things look much less impressive in comparison.

You my friend sound like you only aim for the best. I still think the gear is way better in comparison to the older content stuff. Which I understand, I mean inventory crisis lol.

And again, as soon as these zones' Delve variants come out, these items will all be considered trash again, and Wildskeeper v2 will go the way of the dodo just as quickly as Wildskeeper v1 did, if not sooner.

Yeah but that always happens in every new content update/release.

By the way, Coruscanti was never a top tier dagger even when it originally came out. Glowiness or rarity does not a good weapon make.

Oh I know, I just wanted it for my Thief at the time as I only use for farming and nothing else. My main is RDM & SCH for the time being. No point making an REM for a job I don't use for bigger things.

detlef

08-06-2013, 06:35 PM

Effortless huh. LOL.

There is a balance between getting every single drop from a Wildskeeper Reive within 5-6 runs and obtaining only 3 of the drops in 10 runs. It should probably be closer to the former than the latter.

detlef

08-06-2013, 06:38 PM

Seriously, go to 10 Yumcax and still be 3/6 on drops and missing the gloves, hat, and club. Then get back to me on how we want drops "effortlessly."

Demon6324236

08-06-2013, 06:42 PM

Wanting it effortless is another.No one said give us every drop for a single fight, let us buy the drops, or give us an item of our choosing every battle. No one has a problem with it being random so long as you are still getting 1 drop a fight that is truly worth something, to go out and do any fight this time taking and walk away with literally the equivalent of a Yagudo Bead Necklace but from Adoulin is complete stupidity. If we were assured we got 1 item, one of its primary and R/EX drops, each and every fight against it, everyone would have the items they want in at most 6 kills. To me, that's fine, all they need to do on top of it is add some of expencive craft items at a reasonable drop rate(not 1% drops like VW did with Legion mats...) and people would continue to do it to sell them.

I fail to understand how wanting to get an item for a 10 hour battle with Yumcax which is actually worth my time is wanting the game to be effortless or easy, its wanting it to be fun and not pissing me off. A few nights ago I spent probably 6 hours out at a WK Reive for Yumcax, I spent long enough out there that we kept wiping and getting back up only to wipe again, we failed to hurt it because of its regen. After 6 hours enough people came that we could fight it without wiping, it took about a hour from that point before we got the NM to 90% HP, we slowly fought it from that point till death, the overall battle took over 12 hours from when I entered till we killed it, it took 12 hours, the item I walked away with was literally an Arrowwood Log, a Log worth an amazing 5 gil to an NPC, 1k on the AH. My 12+ hours of standing in that zone, waiting, watching, and wiping, all of my xp loss, messed up sleeping schedule, all for this log. The only item I have from Yumcax is the Neck, that's it, I was lucky enough to reroll it again, and got nothing. Forgive me if I think that is stupid and wrong, and if I think it is flat out retarded for SE to expect a player base to put up with this kind of horrible design.

Demon6324236

08-06-2013, 06:45 PM

This post is mostly off topic.

Lol teach me DJ because even I waited an entire week to an entire month only to burn those stones in a few hours.. I've spent millions of Gil even selling all my HMP and still didn't get the dagger. And yes I know it wasn't the best but it was something at the time I wanted because I don't own any REM daggers and didn't feel the need to waste my time for a job I only used for farming.So rather than go out and spend the time to make a RME weapon for your THF/DNC/BRD you thought it better to fight Qilin 2,000 times and walk away with nothing still?

You could have literally used the Cruor from all of those Qilin to literally go out and brew down every single Glavoid Shell & Itzpapalotl Scale for the dagger, even Orthrus too. Hell, at the exchange rates for Cruor(1 Cruor = 2.595 Gil) which was with Blinkers, when I assume you did most of your Qilin, the 'golden age' of VW, 2,000 fights is 40,000,000 cruor, that's 103,800,000 Gil worth, if you spent that gil on a Relic you would have had most of your Mandau done, it leaves out DNC, but still. Even if its a job you use only for farming, you spent way to much time on going out to get this single dagger than you ever should have even tried.

I've never seen anyone kill VW bosses in 5 minutes. Can people cap red that fast?If you never killed a Qilin in under 5 minutes, you had some horrible groups you went with. Groups I used to do it with were killing in under 3 usually because Qilin is a cake walk, he does nothing threatening and procing is easy so long as you have people who actually understand what splitting spells means. Even on slow kills with all melee procs, it never took all to long for a WAR or MNK to knock it out & kill.

Daemon

08-06-2013, 06:48 PM

No one said give us every drop for a single fight

Oh? I never said every single drop. I was implying 1 good drop every fight.

I don't understand why people are against making a guaranteed drop in WKRs.

Is the reason I said that.

Daemon

08-06-2013, 06:51 PM

This post is mostly off topic.

So rather than go out and spend the time to make a RME weapon for your THF/DNC/BRD you thought it better to fight Qilin 2,000 times and walk away with nothing still?

You could have literally used the Cruor from all of those Qilin to literally go out and brew down every single Glavoid Shell & Itzpapalotl Scale for the dagger, even Orthrus too. Hell, at the exchange rates for Cruor(1 Cruor = 2.595 Gil) which was with Blinkers, when I assume you did most of your Qilin, the 'golden age' of VW, 2,000 fights is 40,000,000 cruor, that's 103,800,000 Gil worth, if you spent that gil on a Relic you would have had most of your Mandau done, it leaves out DNC, but still. Even if its a job you use only for farming, you spent way to much time on going out to get this single dagger than you ever should have even tried.

If you never killed a Qilin in under 5 minutes, you had some horrible groups you went with. Groups I used to do it with were killing in under 3 usually because Qilin is a cake walk, he does nothing threatening and procing is easy so long as you have people who actually understand what splitting spells means. Even on slow kills with all melee procs, it never took all to long for a WAR or MNK to knock it out & kill.

When people tell you "I got the dagger 1/200 tries... Do you think I expected not to get one before 2,000+? O.o

Had I known I'd probably had 3 or more R/E done.

Seriously DJ I have a hard time believing that. Cycling through spells, especially BLM? Darkness proc wasted time. The amount of time to find out procs was another thing. And how many times someone has dual box characters like ninja in the party and did not proc or even land spells due to not having skills maxed?

I know Qilin is easy. But it's impossible to join a perfect group for 2,000 fights.

Sorry I take that back the only time I ever saw Qilin go down in 5 minutes was parting with JPs.

NA's sorry, there's people who dual box, fall asleep or afk during the fight. Don't even know blind and dispel is a darkness proc and Dark Knights power hungry and only want to WS most of the time and not even cast DRK spells for darkness.

Oh and yeah there are even BLM who don't know poison, poison II and poisonga are water procs.

There's whm who don't know addle is fire, slow is earth and paralyze is ice...

And some SCH don't even know Luminohelix is light BLM...

The confusion of 1,3,5 or the difference between HV and EV...

Then again every DD used fanatics. >.>

If there are perfect NA parties where were they when I joined??

Demon6324236

08-06-2013, 07:24 PM

I was implying 1 good drop every fight.Ok, and this would be bad because? Realistically as I said, these fights have a high cost to entry, need a very large number of people, and take a very long time to do by compare to any other event in the game, I fail to understand how bring guaranteed a single valuable drop can be such a bad thing. Really, I do not get it, and I doubt after my own experience with these fights anything could convince me that its not a horrible design choice which should be changed.

Demon6324236

08-06-2013, 07:26 PM

Off topic things about VWI have no problem continuing that talk with you in game, but I specifically put the large bolded statement at the top to point out it was off topic in hopes it could be left out of this thread.

Daemon

08-06-2013, 07:40 PM

Ok, and this would be bad because? Realistically as I said, these fights have a high cost to entry, need a very large number of people, and take a very long time to do by compare to any other event in the game, I fail to understand how bring guaranteed a single valuable drop can be such a bad thing. Really, I do not get it, and I doubt after my own experience with these fights anything could convince me that its not a horrible design choice which should be changed.

This would be bad because look at it from my point of view... You are talking about every single player. If 150+ player are at only 1 Nakuul and got 1 good drop every round 750+ players would be at 5 Nakuuls and due to different time zones people would possibly be doing these more than once per day and some would be able to earn Bayld fast enough to play twice a day..

5 Nakuuls

Colkhab 4 items
Tchakka 5 items
Achuka 4 items
Yumcax 6 items
Hurkan 6 items

25 items total. If a person plays 1 Nakuul per day in 25 days you and every single player will be done with WR in 25 days.

Twice a day and you will be done in 11 days.

Really?? Then what will happen when you have every item? Farm synthesis materials? For how long? Then what? Devs can release new WR content every month?

And what will happen when most people stop doing WR and others trying to do it can't find enough people?

I don't want to waste my time paying to play a game that can allow something like this to happen..,
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Diablo-Blizzard-PC-Gaming-7-hours-Korea,15649.html

(infact I gave this game (Diablo III) the bird and never touched it again after I found out that and haven't touched it since.) >.>

Who plays VW for the gear anymore? I certainly don't want WR to end up like VW.

And if 1 good drop was guaranteed what would happen when people join and do barely nothing but park character and wait doing only a few heals or hits. Or even join in at 5% and wait for others to kill it?

And if everyone was allowed to get 1 good drop per Nakuul. A balance in the game will be way off where more than 150 people would join in WR as fast as possible before the event dies out. Lag issues, all other content totally dead..

Devs are not stupid.

Daemon

08-06-2013, 07:41 PM

I have no problem continuing that talk with you in game, but I specifically put the large bolded statement at the top to point out it was off topic in hopes it could be left out of this thread.

Actually it wasn't off topic when I brought it up earlier. I just used VW as a comparison to WR.

Daemon

08-06-2013, 08:23 PM

Don't get me wrong ill always agree if people suggest something reasonable. You can see in many of my comments and replies that I have agreed with many on various topics.

But you guys also have to look at the entire community as a whole and not just from how you feel from your point of view over content thats brand new because suggestions like the one I'm defending I'm thinking about the after effects of what would or could happen.

Barely have I stood up for the DEV team but I have to on this one. Regardless of how bad we want things easier and how we want items... I'm not here being an elitist saying "You need to earn your status"

I'm just looking at the previous content and comparing how things happened from changes that although may be good but every change has its bad effects that go with it.

Zarchery

08-06-2013, 09:04 PM

Why? They don't read this. Translators do it and they know what we mean.

Kind of for the same reason you don't turn in resumes riddled with abbreviations, slang, and spelling errors. You're trying to make a professional request, act like an adult and use complete words.

Vivivivi

08-06-2013, 10:54 PM

225k Bayld for 2 ore and 1 log... My computer screen would be shattered by the aura of my anger.

At least I got skillups! Ohwait.... :(

FrankReynolds

08-06-2013, 11:54 PM

You're trying to make a professional request, act like an adult and use complete words.

No I'm not. This is a video game and the person translating it knows exactly what we're talking about. And who says what's "adult" and "professional" anyways? I'm 36 years old. The IT (Notice I said IT? That's what people in the industry call it. They abbreviate.) staff and budgets I run are probably bigger than the FFXI team has atm. If I do it, then it's what professional adults do.

Daemon

08-07-2013, 02:32 AM

No I'm not. This is a video game and the person translating it knows exactly what we're talking about. And who says what's "adult" and "professional" anyways? I'm 36 years old. The IT (Notice I said IT? That's what people in the industry call it. They abbreviate.) staff and budgets I run are probably bigger than the FFXI team has atm. If I do it, then it's what professional adults do.

Hey Frank I don't think he meant you personally. I think he said it as in anyone who sends a resume would need to act like an adult and use complete words rather than slang, abbreviations etc due to being a professional request. Which was a good example as to how translators would have to present our ideas to the DEV team in the same manner.

At least that's how I read it.

I've been to Japan in 1999 and believe me it was not very English friendly. Barely any signs are in English. My Japanese friend told me if you want to visit Japan you have to learn the language or have a translator with you at all times so that's why I read his comment as a comparison and not as a direct personal attack on you.

As for abbreviations, FML, TTYL, TBH, LOL, might be known already because everyone uses them all the time online. But this is not standard English that's taught in schools, books, etc. these are terms we made up to save money/time sending walls of text through cellphone messages, online chats and so on.

Equip could mean "equipment" or as in "put it on"

Slang is hard to understand as well like if I said "Why are you being so sketchy?" Or "don't go flake out on us. Then there are sayings like "You know the drill."

Then you have people who write like this "ya brah, dun joo know rAWL ha I joust say you teh udder day, why u is flake out on meh? Das ok yo."

Which can be confusing to those who don't speak English as a first language.

Hope you get a good laugh out of my reply lol...

Oh yeah my favorite one... Did you see the movie bad teacher? When Ms. Squirrel says "Shut the front door." Lol..

Here is a good example of how people (as in translators) can misinterpret and misunderstand English.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpy75q2DDow&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DBpy75q2DDow

Mahoro

08-07-2013, 03:40 AM

I fail to understand how wanting to get an item for a 10 hour battle with Yumcax which is actually worth my time is wanting the game to be effortless or easy, its wanting it to be fun and not pissing me off. A few nights ago I spent probably 6 hours out at a WK Reive for Yumcax, I spent long enough out there that we kept wiping and getting back up only to wipe again, we failed to hurt it because of its regen. After 6 hours enough people came that we could fight it without wiping, it took about a hour from that point before we got the NM to 90% HP, we slowly fought it from that point till death, the overall battle took over 12 hours from when I entered till we killed it, it took 12 hours, the item I walked away with was literally an Arrowwood Log, a Log worth an amazing 5 gil to an NPC, 1k on the AH. My 12+ hours of standing in that zone, waiting, watching, and wiping, all of my xp loss, messed up sleeping schedule, all for this log. The only item I have from Yumcax is the Neck, that's it, I was lucky enough to reroll it again, and got nothing. Forgive me if I think that is stupid and wrong, and if I think it is flat out retarded for SE to expect a player base to put up with this kind of horrible design.

To me, the larger problem here is that Yorcia Weald reiving is still having issues, thereby contributing to the 5-10 hr marathon sessions. I really wish they'd change that map, and perhaps add a Reive or two. Because as long as the Colonization Rate holds level, there will be a vicious cycle of longer fights and greater expectations in rewards. I think the quality of non-gear rewards should be higher too. With VW, we didn't mind (as much) because we could spam the mob back to back and have 6 shots at the lottery in an hour or two.

detlef

08-07-2013, 03:52 AM

5 Nakuuls

Colkhab 4 items
Tchakka 5 items
Achuka 4 items
Yumcax 6 items
Hurkan 6 items

25 items total. If a person plays 1 Nakuul per day in 25 days you and every single player will be done with WR in 25 days.

Twice a day and you will be done in 11 days.3 in a day and you'll be done in about 8 days! 4 in a day and you'll be done in 6! Hey, I tell you what. If I have the drive to earn the bayld for 25 fights and then participate in said fights, I deserve 25 items. Not 3 items I actually want and a pupu platter of pebbles, dryad roots, and logs.

Vivivivi

08-07-2013, 04:14 AM

Add partial KI segments like NNI?

OmnysValefor

08-07-2013, 04:27 AM

Remember too that you need participation of at least 2 well balanced alliances, which means Paladins, White Mages / Scholars, Corsairs, Summoners. If your colo rate is good, like it probably presently is for Hurkan, any ranged attack/caster is probably good. If it's not, you really need those cor and smn.

I'm ashamed to say this, speechless even, but the Hurkan this thread was about lasted 5 hours at 100% rate. I don't know how that can even happen, but it did. As in all content in this game, when people either get their rewards or get tired of trying, it slows down.

While Wildskeeper, in principal, is casual friendly, it still needs the right jobs and sorry (truthfully) but that means certain jobs for the boss and heavy DD to kill the fodder. It's better to know that you went on a proper job than to hope someone else will in your place.

For a properly balanced Hurkan, at 100%, it lasts like an hour. The tree, like 2 hours if you're heavy on cor and smn. I've found that my paladin gets about 10k bayld for going, so yeah, I'd typically prefer to go on another job, but I don't because I know the best contribution I can make is to come on paladin and get on the boss (Valefor for some reason has a lot of twilight zombie paladins, meleeing the mob while watching Netflix probably).

Daemon

08-07-2013, 04:33 AM

Daemon

08-07-2013, 04:35 AM

3 in a day and you'll be done in about 8 days! 4 in a day and you'll be done in 6! Hey, I tell you what. If I have the drive to earn the bayld for 25 fights and then participate in said fights, I deserve 25 items. Not 3 items I actually want and a pupu platter of pebbles, dryad roots, and logs.

You make it sound like earning 25k Bayld takes longer than fighting 3 cats and PW. And most still don't even get what they want after several tries.

And how many of us walked out with logs, and crappy synthesis materials? Getting crappy drops from a boss isn't new. This has happened since day 1.

detlef

08-07-2013, 04:36 AM

And that will never happen if everybody got all drops and stopped playing Hurkan. Which would then be a huge problem for those who want to play this boss.

If you are struggling now with people, I can't imagine what it will be like when no one is around to raise colonization to 100% and no one is around to party with.That'll also never happen if people run out of bayld and/or give up on a less than 1/6 chance of their preferred item dropping.

You're missing half of the argument. Yes, an event can be unsustainable if people get rewards too quickly and easily. But it will also die if it becomes viewed as not worth the headache.

detlef

08-07-2013, 04:37 AM

You make it sound like earning 25k Bayld takes longer than fighting 3 cats and PW.Who cares about 25k bayld? Nobody cares about Achuka, Tchakka, or Colkhab for drops.

Daemon

08-07-2013, 04:40 AM

That'll also never happen if people run out of bayld and/or give up on a less than 1/6 chance of their preferred item dropping.

You're missing half of the argument. Yes, an event can be unsustainable if people get rewards too quickly and easily. But it will also die if it becomes viewed as not worth the headache.

Not worth the headache? Then what's the point in challenge? You think everyone had it easy getting any good drops from other content?

10 years it took me to get the ABJ for Dalmatica. Do you honestly think you can compare with me on this?

There are players out there who still don't have Blood Cuisses. And yet I'm seeing that the challenge to play Nakuul is far less time consuming.

How long does it take a person to farm pops for Kirin? I've had friends kill Kirin over 30 times and still never got an ABJ.

At least people are getting drops from Nakuuls.

Then again how long does it take a person to reach Toau, climb to floor 100 and earn every piece of gear from NNI?

What about Salvage? Need to do missions, Assault and have the points to enter.

SE makes it easier for the new content and gives us way better gear than previous content yet the complaints are still pointing to "It's not good enough we want it easier"

REM VS Delve?

Adoulin gear VS AF3?

Seriously think about it.

OmnysValefor

08-07-2013, 04:50 AM

Daemon

08-07-2013, 04:54 AM

I know that SE has always disagreed with us on this, but gathering 40+ people, and begging for the right jobs is not a challenge I look forward to.

The challenge is in the fight, but these fights are meant to be done with a lot of people, and lots of cors when the colo rate drops.

An hour long fight for 18+ (plus!) people is fine. Meaning that an ls can go but should random bst see them running towards it and want to come in, he can, no needing to join any group if he doesn't want to.

Depending on the server to sustain colonization rate is poor design. People will just stop caring. The newbies and casuals are going to have as difficult a time finding help 3 months from now whether people give up or get their drops.

Guess what? I'm a nice guy, really. If my friend needed a strong paladin to come tank an hour-long Hurkan, even if I already had my drops, and I could enter without a key item (get no boss loot, but maybe a guaranteed cape), and come out with 30k bayld, I'd probably do that. The 5-hour hurkan my op talks about kinda turns me off from ever going back, no matter how bad my bst and blu (and mnk and nin and thf....) wanted that gear.

Yeah but the value of the item you want is far more superior than the value of items from previous content that require less people. Im saying WR hasn't been out long enough to make these kind of complaints.

Difference is, you need 18 people for VW. At least you could walk in alone and join everyone else in WR. Way better approach than having us all form parties as an absolute must.

If everyone could get Defending ring off King behemoth so easily, the boss will no longer be relevant. The ring will no longer be as valuable.

Just the same as when Comet was 10 mil and now worth 10k.

At least you can earn the Bayld to play rather than wait an entire week for an HNM to pop. I very much appreciate how the Devs made it this way rather than time spawn.

Did anyone here ever consider that the Devs actually made it easier for everyone? I'd rather earn 25k than 100k like it was first implemented. And the Devs did not have to reimburse people Bayld during the fight but they did.

Heck I wish VW reimbursed half the stones I burned. I could have bought 2 mythics, 3 relics or completed more than 5 emps with the Gil I spent.

You are not even required to spend any Gil just to continue playing other than for the food and meds which is still optional.

Seriously give the DEVs some credit for making such changes. Not insult them by complaining its not good enough.

If you really are end game then you wouldn't be arguing the challenge, you'd be out there trying to get what others can't so you can be the "True End Game Status"

OmnysValefor

08-07-2013, 05:00 AM

VW still desires 18 people for every vw, to cover as many procs as possible. Some VWs matched against the wrong group even still require it without weakeners. Achuka/Tchakka's drops are now fading in glory but they still require/desire the same number of people as Hurkan and Yumcax.

Daemon

08-07-2013, 05:18 AM

Achuka/Tchakka's drops are now fading in glory

Why are they fading?

detlef

08-07-2013, 05:20 AM

Why are they fading?Because the Delve mega bosses drop superior versions, and with yesterday's update are easier than ever to defeat/farm.

FrankReynolds

08-07-2013, 05:21 AM

Hey Frank I don't think he meant you personally. I think he said it as in anyone who sends a resume would need to act like an adult and use complete words rather than slang, abbreviations etc due to being a professional request. Which was a good example as to how translators would have to present our ideas to the DEV team in the same manner.

At least that's how I read it.

I've been to Japan in 1999 and believe me it was not very English friendly. Barely any signs are in English. My Japanese friend told me if you want to visit Japan you have to learn the language or have a translator with you at all times so that's why I read his comment as a comparison and not as a direct personal attack on you.

As for abbreviations, FML, TTYL, TBH, LOL, might be known already because everyone uses them all the time online. But this is not standard English that's taught in schools, books, etc. these are terms we made up to save money/time sending walls of text through cellphone messages, online chats and so on.

Equip could mean "equipment" or as in "put it on"

Slang is hard to understand as well like if I said "Why are you being so sketchy?" Or "don't go flake out on us. Then there are sayings like "You know the drill."

Then you have people who write like this "ya brah, dun joo know rAWL ha I joust say you teh udder day, why u is flake out on meh? Das ok yo."

Which can be confusing to those who don't speak English as a first language.

Hope you get a good laugh out of my reply lol...

Oh yeah my favorite one... Did you see the movie bad teacher? When Ms. Squirrel says "Shut the front door." Lol..

Here is a good example of how people (as in translators) can misinterpret and misunderstand English.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpy75q2DDow&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DBpy75q2DDow

Yeah, I get exactly what you're saying, but Camate isn't an ESL Japanese guy. I'm fairly certain that he understands everything we say just as well as we do and I really doubt he translates it word for word. Could you imagine how mind numbing it would be to do that?

I imagine that he pokes through here and doesn't even bother to mention anything that's already being discussed in the JP threads because the devs read those already. I've never seen a direct response to an English thread from someone on the dev team. Camate et al will occasionally respond directly on behalf of the devs when they know the answer or have something to add, but you will never see a dev response to an English quote.

I imagine the conversation goes like this:

<Translator> Hey guys, there's lot's of chatter in the English forums about <insert current event here>!

<devs> That's nice. Anything interesting?

<Translator> Ummm a bunch of people are mad about <Current problem>.

<devs> That's nice. We responded to a few posts in JP. Maybe if you translate those, they'll calm down.

<translator> Will do.

<devs> Anything else?

<Translator> Well, people are still asking what treasure hunter does...

<dev> LOL we can't remember what it does. Just tell them it is a good idea to have it. I remember it was good for something...

svengalis

08-07-2013, 05:31 AM

The boots and cap are certainly amazing right now, however, all gear is going to look this amazing because they're artificially inflating our level and making this absurdly complex.

I would so much just rather be level 110 than all this crazy gear.

I think even the developers have realized that the leveling at this point has become pointless.

Daemon

08-07-2013, 05:32 AM

Yeah, I get exactly what you're saying, but Camate isn't an ESL Japanese guy. I'm fairly certain that he understands everything we say just as well as we do and I really doubt he translates it word for word. Could you imagine how mind numbing it would be to do that?

I imagine that he pokes through here and doesn't even bother to mention anything that's already being discussed in the JP threads because the devs read those already. I've never seen a direct response to an English thread from someone on the dev team. Camate et al will occasionally respond directly on behalf of the devs when they know the answer or have something to add, but you will never see a dev response to an English quote.

I imagine the conversation goes like this:

<Translator> Hey guys, there's lot's of chatter in the English forums about <insert current event here>!

<devs> That's nice. Anything interesting?

<Translator> Ummm a bunch of people are mad about <Current problem>.

<devs> That's nice. We responded to a few posts in JP. Maybe if you translate those, they'll calm down.

<translator> Will do.

<devs> Anything else?

<Translator> Well, people are still asking what treasure hunter does...

<dev> LOL we can't remember what it does. Just tell them it is a good idea to have it. I remember it was good for something...

I'd be afraid to do Calmates job. Every time he post a reply, some may agree, some may complain, some may take his words and twist the context of what he was replying to.

Sometimes the best thing to do is only respond to the majority at once, than reply to every single post.

Then again if the DEV team was NA, it might be the other way around where JPs would wonder why translators don't address them directly.

Kind of the same as Britney Spears and Amanda Bynes just want people to stop harassing them when being a star draws too much attention. Sometimes unwanted attention at best.

Look at Michael Jackson. The man has moved on to the afterlife and people still til this very day bring him up as if he was still alive..

OmnysValefor

08-07-2013, 05:35 AM

I think even the developers have realized that the leveling at this point has become pointless.

Yeah, I don't know that we needed a level cap increase, but between leveling artificially through gear and attaining real levels, I'd rather have the real level.

svengalis

08-07-2013, 05:38 AM

Seriously look at what you are saying? How long would it take if everyone on the entire server got what they wanted every fight? Then what? Devs cannot keep pumping out content every week...

I wonder how the economy would be effected when RMT could leech off 1 WR and do minimal work to get such items?

Then again how many lazy people will show up gimp and do the same?

The economy is probably the best it has ever been in this game right now because all the good gear is rare ex.

Daemon

08-07-2013, 05:40 AM

Yeah, I don't know that we needed a level cap increase, but between leveling artificially through gear and attaining real levels, I'd rather have the real level.

I just wish Devs would fix our inventory crisis or raise level/stats so we don't have to carry so much equipment. Ugh I'm tired of repeating this like a broken record.

Haven't been on the game for a week now. Haven't even updated the new version either. Why? Inventory. Too mazy to figure which rare/ex gear I should toss.

Daemon

08-07-2013, 05:45 AM

The economy is probably the best it has ever been in this game right now because all the good gear is rare ex.

But it's getting to the point where some of us cannot store all the rare/ex gear in slips and have no more room in inventory leading us to decide which pieces do we toss out? I just hope it doesn't reach to the point where you have to decide if its best to throw away Tocis or Thuradaunt? Can't be stored in moogle... As for Tocis I could pulse it but then would I ever find 17 people to spam it 1,000+ times to get another one? Or should I waste my Bayld I've been saving for WR to buy another Thuradaunt?

Daemon

08-07-2013, 06:09 AM

Because the Delve mega bosses drop superior versions, and with yesterday's update are easier than ever to defeat/farm.

Are you gauranteed something will drop? I mean 18 people in delve, there were times I did more than 6 runs only to still not get even 1 airelixer. Did SE remove the time limit on Delve?

What about loot distribution? I've seen people hax-a-lot (my way of saying) get all of the gear drops. Like if 2 pieces dropped...Both items went to 1 person...

detlef

08-07-2013, 06:53 AM

There are 4 guaranteed drops which can be distributed to the right people to ensure that nobody gets something useless. If you do 1-5 NMs plus mega boss, you get 70k plasm, which is about 1/3 of the plasm you need to buy the 200k weapons and the armor (which cost slightly less than 200k plasm). So even if you don't win lot, you're sure to get the item(s) you want after a few runs.

svengalis

08-07-2013, 07:49 AM

Lol teach me DJ because even I waited an entire week to an entire month only to burn those stones in a few hours.. I've spent millions of Gil even selling all my HMP and still didn't get the dagger. And yes I know it wasn't the best but it was something at the time I wanted because I don't own any REM daggers and didn't feel the need to waste my time for a job I only used for farming.

Btw I have all kis that replenish your stones faster including the one you get from PW and still ran out of stones..

I've never seen anyone kill VW bosses in 5 minutes. Can people cap red that fast?

You actually can I have seen red cap in like 2-3 weapon skills +other magic procs of course.

Daemon

08-07-2013, 07:53 AM

You actually can I have seen red cap in like 2-3 weapons +other magic procs of course.

Well if you proc 3's & 5's? I just never saw it done in NA parties. Maybe once in a blue moon.

svengalis

08-07-2013, 07:54 AM

So its better to reward 150 players spending 2+ hrs to take down Yumcax a maple log?

A better way would be to make the Library quest repeatable. Defeat all 5 Naakuls again and choose another 2 items

I see what you are saying cause my last yumcax was for 7 hours and all I got was some iron sand but I do think deamon is right. I do wish the capes were a consultation prize for doing wildskeeper instead of crafting items if you don't get the boss drops.

detlef

08-07-2013, 08:59 AM

I see what you are saying cause my last yumcax was for 7 hours and all I got was some iron sand but I do think deamon is right. I do wish the capes were a consultation prize for doing wildskeeper instead of crafting items if you don't get the boss drops.When you endure a few more yumcax that are just like that you might change your tune. Or not.

Also I don't think this gear is particularly overpowering if you look at in the context of gear that has yet to be implemented in the game.

Fynlar

08-07-2013, 10:08 AM

Regarding the alignment in VW thing:

V and HV procs give boosted alignment if you time them properly; generally this is when you "stun" the foe while it is trying to use a spell or WS. If you time a HV magic proc in this manner, it will increase red alignment by 200-220 immediately, which brings it to 300-320, already almost capped. From this point you can easily cap it via blitz.

In the case of V procs, this also has the added benefit of changing them to behave more like a HV proc (that is, it will become a red !! instead of yellow, stun the mob for 20 seconds instead of 5, and also restore all temps instead of just 0-1)

svengalis

08-07-2013, 02:51 PM

Well if you proc 3's & 5's? I just never saw it done in NA parties. Maybe once in a blue moon.

I haven't done VW since last year but when I quit last year we only went for HQ procs and this was like in every pick up group I did.

svengalis

08-07-2013, 02:56 PM

When you endure a few more yumcax that are just like that you might change your tune. Or not.

Also I don't think this gear is particularly overpowering if you look at in the context of gear that has yet to be implemented in the game.

Do I get pissed after spending 7-8 hours doing Yumcax and getting crap drops? Yes but I also realize that if I was getting the drops I wanted then I wouldn't be doing it as much which could be a big problem for anyone who has yet to do it. Now I may stop doing it if I keep getting terrible drops but it really doesn't take much effort to do WK. I just look at past events and realize how hard it is for some people to do them because most people have gotten what they want from the events like Abyssea.

detlef

08-07-2013, 03:12 PM

Demon6324236

08-07-2013, 03:38 PM

Do I get pissed after spending 7-8 hours doing Yumcax and getting crap drops? Yes but I also realize that if I was getting the drops I wanted then I wouldn't be doing it as much which could be a big problem for anyone who has yet to do it. Now I may stop doing it if I keep getting terrible drops but it really doesn't take much effort to do WK. I just look at past events and realize how hard it is for some people to do them because most people have gotten what they want from the events like Abyssea.I am more likely to give up on WK Reives all together with how much of a pain they are and simply wait for the better gear which is obviously on its way in the future, rather than spend my countless hours retrying the fight over and over again and again till I get what I want only for it to be outdated in the next update. The problem with this game changing in the way it is, SE is not making anything easier to get, everything is still a pain in the ass to obtain and takes to much time, while the next update kills it off anyways, which leaves very little motivation to do things which are heavily time taking like WK when you can get better drops from the Delve version of the fights when they are released.

Daemon

08-07-2013, 04:04 PM

I am more likely to give up on WK Reives all together with how much of a pain they are and simply wait for the better gear which is obviously on its way in the future, rather than spend my countless hours retrying the fight over and over again and again till I get what I want only for it to be outdated in the next update. The problem with this game changing in the way it is, SE is not making anything easier to get, everything is still a pain in the ass to obtain and takes to much time, while the next update kills it off anyways, which leaves very little motivation to do things which are heavily time taking like WK when you can get better drops from the Delve version of the fights when they are released.

I've had friends do Salvage with me. Of course I being the Margery slave, heal slave, embrava hoar. Once they all got what they wanted, they stopped going with me.

Yeah I'm the guy who always tags along and gets the drops nobody wants. I'm the guy people agree to spend time doing stuff with only to bail out after they are done getting what they wanted.

Point of the story? These were people I thought would help me get my gear too. I think you can imagine where I'm going with this.

This will happen just the same in WR or any other event.

Allowing everyone to obtain the gear faster will only make the content die out faster. In every Final Fantasy game I've ever played, I'm use to the Tier system of leveling, earning Gil and buying the right equipment when I cannot pass a certain area of the game. This is the type of RPG games I've always been accustomed to. Not like Diablo, Zerg and get items easy, toss out crap and keep whatever is best. I've always hated all the trash gear falling on the ground.

Instant type games were always a big turn off and when I came to FFXI I played because you actually invest time earning your power. The day I got my Dalmatica ABJ after 10 years was the day I felt it was worth it. My most favorite piece of body gear. Regardless if there's better items out there. Each day I wear it, it's the best feeling ever.

Demon6324236

08-07-2013, 04:18 PM

Demon6324236

08-07-2013, 04:21 PM

Instant type games were always a big turn off and when I came to FFXI I played because you actually invest time earning your power.I have no problem investing time, time is not an issue when its able to be tracked and I can work in order to get a reward. This has no way to track your progress, it has no progress at all, I can get it in 1 fight, or 100 fights, just like VW, that is the shit kind of progression I hate. Things like Relics, Mythics, Emps, Seals, Salvage II gear, even NNI gear, those things where you get something every run and can work to get your gear in the end in a way you can track rather than simple luck on if you get it or not, those I like. Things like this I hate more than anything else in this game because its pure, 100%, luck.

Daemon

08-07-2013, 04:24 PM

At least people would do it, right now I see some WKs like Yumcax take so long just to get people gathered for it that it becomes to boring to bother, at which point the event becomes so stupid its not worth doing in the first place. SE is not good at finding balance no matter how well they preach it, and this is one of those times, they either make events give to good of rewards and we all don't do it long or it gives shit rewards and few of us do it because of the anger it brings us. The difference with WKs, you can not do it with only a few people, you need a ton, which means once it gets to a certain point no one can or will do them anyways.

From my point of view these type of events bring a huge portion of the server together. Rather than be strict to 18 man alliance I think it's pretty cool to see a variety of people show up. It may not happen everyday or at the time someone starts shouting but even if it happens 2-3 times a week? I still think its cool.

Can't expect people to have 75k Bayld right at the time you want to do it. Remember others need to go back and re-earn enough to enter again. You may know how to earn it back pretty fast but I'm sure many don't.

Then there are people who only play a couple of hours a day. Those earning Bayld through colonization reives doing Clear the way may not have the tags to earn it fast.

I think is part of the big reason people are complaining about not finding enough people. Everyone expects people to be ready which is not the same as just going to the VW NPC and grabbing stones.

I think SE should implement some sort of flag option that we can put up to show we have the Ki to enter a Nakuul that way we could search the server and those who are ready.

SpankWustler

08-07-2013, 04:37 PM

If "Order Up" were made repeatable, the increased number of times that people would do Achuka, Tchakka, etc. would probably balance out the reduced number of times that people would do the current highest tier of Wildskeeper Rieves over and over.

"Order Up" becoming repeatable could also help even out any differences in popularity between Wildskeeper Rieves of the same tier. People might be more inclined to suffer through one more 35% colonization Yumcax rather than do one more quick Hurkan if they could finish a key item set that way.

For anyone capable of defeating Mega-Bosses in Delve, most Wildskeeper gear has a limited lifespan anyway.

Daemon

08-07-2013, 04:49 PM

I have no problem investing time, time is not an issue when its able to be tracked and I can work in order to get a reward. This has no way to track your progress, it has no progress at all, I can get it in 1 fight, or 100 fights, just like VW, that is the shit kind of progression I hate. Things like Relics, Mythics, Emps, Seals, Salvage II gear, even NNI gear, those things where you get something every run and can work to get your gear in the end in a way you can track rather than simple luck on if you get it or not, those I like. Things like this I hate more than anything else in this game because its pure, 100%, luck.

When I first saw you DD in WoE. First thing on my mind was "WoW I'm impressed." Your REMs, gear, play style blew me away. Honestly DJ you may have taken a lot of time to earn these things but it definitely showed.

Can't imagine how you will be after you get all the Nakuul gears etc. that has to tell you something.. That your gear really showed your accomplishments.

Now if everybody was running around with the best, I'm sure it won't look special at all. Kinda like seeing every job in AF3.

I just wouldn't want SE to devalue that.

Demon6324236

08-07-2013, 05:35 PM

From my point of view these type of events bring a huge portion of the server together. Rather than be strict to 18 man alliance I think it's pretty cool to see a variety of people show up. It may not happen everyday or at the time someone starts shouting but even if it happens 2-3 times a week? I still think its cool.How does is bring people together? 90% of the characters in the area are not even shown, your party is a max of 18 people, and no one talks outside of your party, and there is nearly no interaction between those in a party and those not in the same party. To me, there is almost no togetherness, and no strategy because of it, the entire strategy for the fight is have a single party with a PLD keep the think held/tanked while you have your random army of CORs & SMNs beating it to death with Quick Draw & Blood Pacts. That's it, nothing more. I see no togetherness in this event.

Can't expect people to have 75k Bayld right at the time you want to do it. Remember others need to go back and re-earn enough to enter again. You may know how to earn it back pretty fast but I'm sure many don't.I don't ask to do it every day, but how long must I wait so the other 150 people I need just so the fight becomes possible are ready to do it?

Then there are people who only play a couple of hours a day.Yeah I know, my GF whom of which you know, has yet to participate in any of these fights. She is on only about 4 hours a night, and by the time we have enough people out there & ready to go she has to sleep. We have spent a couple weeks going out and getting her Adoulin gear as well as Bayld for her fights, only for her to be unable to participate because she plays at a bad time of the day for everyone else, and has such limited time. Do not get me started on how terrible this event is for some people with limited time, because I know it all to well.

Those earning Bayld through colonization reives doing Clear the way may not have the tags to earn it fast.I am sure they don't, again I ask, how long must I wait for the other 150 people, and also, why is it the fight requires that many people to begin with? Was Campaign not a good enough example of how horrible of an idea server wide upkeep and server wide content is on this game? They have had to adjust rates multiple times on multiple things now, why is it they have not made these fights any easier? If you want to see an event die, there is no easier way than making it require an obscene amount of people who will likely never return when they have what they need, as you keep saying.

I think SE should implement some sort of flag option that we can put up to show we have the Ki to enter a Nakuul that way we could search the server and those who are ready.There are many ways to improve it. One way would be this, also they need to allow us to check the % of the NM as well as how many people have entered, fix the drops, give better/rare mats rather than junk, decrease difficulty enough to allow DDs to touch it without dying, increase the respawn timer on the normal mobs, and lastly make a WKs death raise the Col Rate by 5~10%. All of this would benefit the WK fights in my opinion.

Demon6324236

08-07-2013, 05:35 PM

Now if everybody was running around with the best, I'm sure it won't look special at all. Kinda like seeing every job in AF3.

I just wouldn't want SE to devalue that.As I said, not asking for things to be easy, asking for them to be fair.

Me fighting a difficult battle for 10 hours and getting great gear, fair.

Me fighting a difficult battle for 10 hours and getting an Arrowwood Log, unfair.

Daemon

08-07-2013, 06:05 PM

As I said, not asking for things to be easy, asking for them to be fair.

Me fighting a difficult battle for 10 hours and getting great gear, fair.

Me fighting a difficult battle for 10 hours and getting an Arrowwood Log, unfair.

Seriously take a closer look in town. I've seen people rocking Nakuul gear already. Quite a few in fact. To you it's unfair. To me I think it would be unfair if they made it easier than they already have.

I spent over 6 months on Qilin and watched 4 other people get coruscanti twice, 7 people new to VW get it and pulse it my face. Half of the 7 didn't even need the dagger because they don't play any jobs to even use it. The other half didn't want the dagger because they needed the Gil instead..

Now VW is dead. After wasting all that time, Gil, cruor and you think I don't know what unfair is? O.o

Gee if the game keeps being sped up there's no point in playing. Nothing else to do but quit and go play FF14. Since abyssea, to FCing I already felt the game lost its value by allowing everyone to speed through the game.

You know what? 13 jobs at 99... No inventory space, no motivation to keep playing as each day this game is seriously lacking. Previous content is shot down because no one cares to do anything else other than SoA reives, delve and Nakuuls and if this dies out and SE can't implement enough content fast enough... I dunno what else to say.

At least I'm seeing that the Devs are seriously trying to keep the fanbase busy. For 11 years up until SoA was released we never saw them release such powerful items. Compare to Mythic I still think our chances are way better.

Doing all ToAu missions/Assault missions to get captain rank first before you can even start the quest for mythic, Assault, Nyzul, NNI, Ein, VNM, 30k Alex, Besieged, Salvage vs WIldskeeper Reives?

I'm sorry but I'd rather appreciate the freedom the Devs gave us than complain.

You can't expect to go to a beyonce concert expecting her to give you VIP passes, Sign and hand you a CD, Poster, Bring you on stage and give you the attention you want. Oh but the concert was too long and to wait for people to get inside, be seated? I only got a sticker.

Heck, Why can't everyone just appreciate the concert for what it is. Same way I see WR.

Again there are people out there who cannot even play WR yet because they are not even close to our level. Just the same as not everybody has the ability to even go to a beyonce concert.

It took SE 3 years to release SoA since Abyssea Expansion. Which means SoA is suppose to keep us busy for another 2-3 years. Til the next expansion.

SoA only released 5 months ago. And several players already passed delve and got a lot.

With out directly saying this. All of my post subtly means "Take it easy, slow down, why are you wanting to play the game so fast" Is what I was actually saying this whole time.

I'm reading post like "I only got the grip, I only got everything else except the boots, the weapon"

Atleast you have it. I don't even have none of that stuff yet. I wonder how many other people are the same?

To me it sounds like people are spoiled and instead of appreciating anything, more complaints as to why I can't my stuff faster.

They already dropped the amount of Bayld from 100k to 75k/50k. They give you the opportunity to earn some of that back during the fight.

This is where I'm seriously not understanding why no one appreciates this.

detlef

08-07-2013, 06:29 PM

Seriously take a closer look in town. I've seen people rocking Nakuul gear already. Quite a few in fact. To you it's unfair. To me I think it would be unfair if they made it easier than they already have.Oh so a few people got lucky, therefore the system works.

I spent over 6 months on Qilin and watched 4 other people get coruscanti twice, 7 people new to VW get it and pulse it my face. Half of the 7 didn't even need the dagger because they don't play any jobs to even use it. The other half didn't want the dagger because they needed the Gil instead..

Now VW is dead. After wasting all that time, Gil, cruor and you think I don't know what unfair is? O.oVW was stupid. Pulse items were way too rare. And Pulse weapons were beyond ridiculous. The drop rates were ludicrous and should not be used as the basis for any comparison to show "how good we have it now."

You can't expect to go to a beyonce concert expecting her to give you VIP passes, Sign and hand you a CD, Poster, Bring you on stage and give you the attention you want. Oh but the concert was too long and to wait for people to get inside, be seated? I only got a sticker.

Heck, Why can't everyone just appreciate the concert for what it is. Same way I see WR.

Again there are people out there who cannot even play WR yet because they are not even close to our level.Your analogy is bad and you should feel bad. Nobody is asking to get an item of their choosing the first try. People just want some assurance that they won't be after said item after the nth try. For some people that number is in the dozens. That is ridiculous for an event that:

A. Costs a not-so-insignificant amount of bayld (50-75k);
B. Occurs at unpredictable times;
C. Has an unpredictable duration;
D. Can be sabotaged by a single player.

With out directly saying this. All of my post subtly means "Take it easy, slow down, why are you wanting to play the game so fast" Is what I was actually saying this whole time.This event has a limited shelf life. Interest will never be higher than it is now. When the Delve versions of Yumcax and Hurkan are released, the interest in Wildskeeper will pretty much die out completely. The most likely outcome is that people will never get the item they were after in time for it to still be a relevant piece of gear.

Daemon

08-07-2013, 07:00 PM

Oh so a few people got lucky, therefore the system works.

VW was stupid. Pulse items were way too rare. And Pulse weapons were beyond ridiculous. The drop rates were ludicrous and should not be used as the basis for any comparison to show "how good we have it now."

Your analogy is bad and you should feel bad. Nobody is asking to get an item of their choosing the first try. People just want some assurance that they won't be after said item after the nth try. For some people that number is in the dozens. That is ridiculous for an event that:

A. Costs a not-so-insignificant amount of bayld (50-75k);
B. Occurs at unpredictable times;
C. Has an unpredictable duration;
D. Can be sabotaged by a single player.

This event has a limited shelf life. Interest will never be higher than it is now. When the Delve versions of Yumcax and Hurkan are released, the interest in Wildskeeper will pretty much die out completely. The most likely outcome is that people will never get the item they were after in time for it to still be a relevant piece of gear.

Well then SE should go back and change all of the other content too according to what you are saying because all previous contents are the same. Rares don't drop easy and require time and effort.

All events have a limited shelf life. Players who get what they want and no longer play the event is what kills it.

And why should I feel bad? SE could have made Nakuuals pop once a week like HNMs. They could have made it so no one gets any Bayld back and loot only drop a certain amount where you are competing with X amount of people fighting over who's going to win the lot.

Thats IF any items drop only to wait another week real time. Competing NA/EU/JP/France/Germany/China/ against claiming the boss.

And yes someone did suggest making a gauranteed drop earlier in the post.

BGWIKI quote - "At the end of a successful Wildskeeper Reive, if the player participated enough to receive item rewards, they will receive one random crafting material and one of several available unique drops from the defeated Naakual, guaranteed."
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Category:Reive

I'm still not understanding why it needs to be made easier.

Am I the only person seeing that this event is not meant to be spammed like VW? That instead of making people wait 1 week real time for these bosses to randomly pop, the Devs are giving us the free ability to pop it ourselves but require us to make the event happen on our own??

Demon6324236

08-07-2013, 08:16 PM

Seriously take a closer look in town. I've seen people rocking Nakuul gear already. Quite a few in fact. To you it's unfair. To me I think it would be unfair if they made it easier than they already have.This is the problem. That single word, that ideal, ease. This has nothing to do with ease, it has nothing to do with being to hard, if I came here and said Tojil is to hard, he keeps killing every Alliance I go with, that would be complaining about ease, my complaint is with pure, unpredictable, unavoidable, luck. I know some people have gear from it, I know a ton do, they were lucky, I know some horrible players who suck at the jobs they play, or flat out did not play the job before, and got gear drops from the WKs that they now use, they do not deserve them, but they got lucky with it. I know some people who do not play mage jobs, but got my Buremte Hat, Uk' Feet, TClub, and so on, but have no use for it. The fact of the matter is nothing to do with ease, its all about luck, that is my problem.

I spent over 6 months on Qilin and watched 4 other people get coruscanti twice, 7 people new to VW get it and pulse it my face. Half of the 7 didn't even need the dagger because they don't play any jobs to even use it. The other half didn't want the dagger because they needed the Gil instead..

Now VW is dead. After wasting all that time, Gil, cruor and you think I don't know what unfair is? O.oYou know it, but you also defend it. You should not defend something which effected you in such a horrible way, you should fight it. Its stupid of anyone to be effected by something like SE's horrible luck systems such as these to not only get screwed by it countless times but then to turn around and defend those exact same practices. So was it unfair? Yes, and do you understand that? I assume so, but at the same time, you are supporting this kind of action being done to others right now, not something which happened before, but something that is happening currently. I went after Ephemeron from Aello, killed her probably 300 or so times, maybe more, never got the sword, saw a few people walk away with it as a Cell or the sword itself, but never got it personally. I knew the drop rate was bullshit then, and I know this drop rate is bullshit now. You seem to think this is fine for some reason even though you experienced something similar yet not as bad with VW and Qilin.

At least I'm seeing that the Devs are seriously trying to keep the fanbase busy. For 11 years up until SoA was released we never saw them release such powerful items. Compare to Mythic I still think our chances are way better.

Doing all ToAu missions/Assault missions to get captain rank first before you can even start the quest for mythic, Assault, Nyzul, NNI, Ein, VNM, 30k Alex, Besieged, Salvage vs WIldskeeper Reives?

I'm sorry but I'd rather appreciate the freedom the Devs gave us than complain.Mythics and WKs are not in any way related, or even close to one another. You are talking about something which can be kept track of on ones progress, something which can be slowly worked at, compared to WKs which are pure luck based on drops, and often completely underwhelming on rewards.

You can't expect to go to a beyonce concert expecting her to give you VIP passes, Sign and hand you a CD, Poster, Bring you on stage and give you the attention you want. Oh but the concert was too long and to wait for people to get inside, be seated? I only got a sticker.

Heck, Why can't everyone just appreciate the concert for what it is. Same way I see WR.So I am supposed to go to a Yumcax fight, go through my 10 long hour battle of anger, disappointment, and failure, and then walk away with my Arrowwood Log, and look back on it as an enjoyable experience? Fuck no! If you are talking about a concert I would go to it, enjoy myself, and the wait at the start as well as know when it starts, know when it ends, and know what I am walking away with, an enjoyable time more than likely. Again you act as though I simply want to talk into the WK and instantly be given all of the drops on a platter. No, I want to be rewarded for my time, Bayld, and effort, rather than being screwed with an item worth an amazing 5 gil for my time.

This is where I'm seriously not understanding why no one appreciates this.I am seriously not understanding why its difficult to understand peoples anger at the prospect of spending countless hours attempting and failing to kill a single NM over and over for half a day just so it can give you something of 0 value. You know what was nice about VW? It fucked you, but you walked away with something, the battles were fast, easy, could be spammed, and even if the rate was worse, it was much easier. WKs have a high cost to enter, give you jack shit if your unlucky, not even gil items like VW, are slow as shit, take a ton of people, and are not spam-able in any way because as you point out, even if I go get myself a ton of Bayld so I can spam it, I have to wait for all of the other people to get their Bayld too just so I can go out and waste my time again.

Demon6324236

08-07-2013, 08:20 PM

BGWIKI quote - "At the end of a successful Wildskeeper Reive, if the player participated enough to receive item rewards, they will receive one random crafting material and one of several available unique drops from the defeated Naakual, guaranteed."
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Category:Reive

I'm still not understanding why it needs to be made easier.Because as people keep saying, and you keep failing to understand, if you get a repeat drop you get nothing at all. I can go do Yumcax 15 more times and get nothing but the damn Ranged Neck, over, and over, and over. You are guaranteed 1 drop, yes, 1 drop, but here is the problem, Rare drops do not drop again if you have them already, ever, from anything in the game, this is included, so if you get a Rare drop again it gives you nothing, thus, the issue.

Thorbean

08-08-2013, 12:09 AM

FrankReynolds

08-08-2013, 02:18 AM

Umichi

08-08-2013, 02:24 AM

Daemon

08-08-2013, 03:02 AM

This is the problem. That single word, that ideal, ease. This has nothing to do with ease, it has nothing to do with being to hard, if I came here and said Tojil is to hard, he keeps killing every Alliance I go with, that would be complaining about ease, my complaint is with pure, unpredictable, unavoidable, luck. I know some people have gear from it, I know a ton do, they were lucky, I know some horrible players who suck at the jobs they play, or flat out did not play the job before, and got gear drops from the WKs that they now use, they do not deserve them, but they got lucky with it. I know some people who do not play mage jobs, but got my Buremte Hat, Uk' Feet, TClub, and so on, but have no use for it. The fact of the matter is nothing to do with ease, its all about luck, that is my problem.

You know it, but you also defend it. You should not defend something which effected you in such a horrible way, you should fight it. Its stupid of anyone to be effected by something like SE's horrible luck systems such as these to not only get screwed by it countless times but then to turn around and defend those exact same practices. So was it unfair? Yes, and do you understand that? I assume so, but at the same time, you are supporting this kind of action being done to others right now, not something which happened before, but something that is happening currently. I went after Ephemeron from Aello, killed her probably 300 or so times, maybe more, never got the sword, saw a few people walk away with it as a Cell or the sword itself, but never got it personally. I knew the drop rate was bullshit then, and I know this drop rate is bullshit now. You seem to think this is fine for some reason even though you experienced something similar yet not as bad with VW and Qilin.

Mythics and WKs are not in any way related, or even close to one another. You are talking about something which can be kept track of on ones progress, something which can be slowly worked at, compared to WKs which are pure luck based on drops, and often completely underwhelming on rewards.

So I am supposed to go to a Yumcax fight, go through my 10 long hour battle of anger, disappointment, and failure, and then walk away with my Arrowwood Log, and look back on it as an enjoyable experience? Fuck no! If you are talking about a concert I would go to it, enjoy myself, and the wait at the start as well as know when it starts, know when it ends, and know what I am walking away with, an enjoyable time more than likely. Again you act as though I simply want to talk into the WK and instantly be given all of the drops on a platter. No, I want to be rewarded for my time, Bayld, and effort, rather than being screwed with an item worth an amazing 5 gil for my time.

I am seriously not understanding why its difficult to understand peoples anger at the prospect of spending countless hours attempting and failing to kill a single NM over and over for half a day just so it can give you something of 0 value. You know what was nice about VW? It fucked you, but you walked away with something, the battles were fast, easy, could be spammed, and even if the rate was worse, it was much easier. WKs have a high cost to enter, give you jack shit if your unlucky, not even gil items like VW, are slow as shit, take a ton of people, and are not spam-able in any way because as you point out, even if I go get myself a ton of Bayld so I can spam it, I have to wait for all of the other people to get their Bayld too just so I can go out and waste my time again.

I think the difference between you and me is that I'm use to spamming a boss a million times from games like Ragnarok to earn a rare at 0.1 drop rate and know if you really want something you don't hunt it regardless of the spawn condition 10-15 times and complain.

Although items like Defending Ring is nice, are you people seriously telling me that Wildskeeper is worse????

Seriously I already told all of you it took me 10 years to finally get a Dalmatica +1. I don't feel like that was unfair because now that I got it, it's the best item I treasure most that means more than any other item I have.

And guess what? I never went back to Odin after I got my ABJ. I'm done with that. Which is exactly why I think people should be present over these events longer. Your presence helps others.

You know why I don't understand people's anger? It's been addressed already and it's still not good enough.

Complaining about the drop rate over items as powerful as these.

What happened to other aspects of the event? Partying with people and enjoying the game with friends, seeing the new changes the DEVs working hard to provide?

Appreciation?

Because at this point I'm only seeing more complaints.

July update I was disappointed and yes even I use to make rants too. But I'm seeing now that the Devs who even you agreed is a small team is actually making real progress in such a short time have adjusted several things to make the game better.

Did they not adjust the colonization rate so that it would last longer than people heading to a map and not being able to use waypoints because the rate was too low?

Did they not lower the amount of Bayld it takes to purchase a Ki? What about lowering the difficulty for colonization reives just so people could earn Bayld at a better rate?

Seriously had the Dev Team kept it 100k you all would be taking longer to play it than now.

Are you guys even reading my comments about why I think the event is better?

1. We don't have to sit and camp all day an entire week real time waiting for the boss to pop. (I've done this too many times)
2. No competition over claiming the boss.
3. Item is guaranteed. So you already have an item it drops. At least you have an item.
4. You can earn half the Bayld you spend entering the fight back.

HNMs back in the day were horrible. Took hours to take down the boss and guess what? You has to compete over more than 34+ people over who gets to lot the items. Once per week. That's if any items dropped.

And that's "IF" your LS even claimed the boss.

At least SE gives us HMN back but with way better conditions. You guys say its not hard. It's too time consuming.

The event is nice. I only played it once but that's enough for me to say to all of you that I enjoy it. I don't expect to play it everyday nor do I wish to sit all day farming Bayld to play this event.

I see it as an event that I could play once in a while when I feel like it. Maybe not at the moment I want to but I see it as anything in life.

Sort of like gathering friends to travel out of state and visit Walt Disney or Six Flags.

The way I see you guys, as if you are expecting WR to be like VW or Abyssea when I see it as Fafnir, King Behemoth, Niddhog, Besieged, Kirin, JOV..

Difference with this, yes you actually have to plan with others to do the event together. Is that really so horrible? Planning to do something with friends?

You know DJ when you took me to Hurkan last week, I had such a great time I didn't care that I didn't get any items. Because the only thing on my mind was how much fun I had partying with you.

Omegablue

08-08-2013, 03:47 AM

These things should reward you with even less balyd if any upon completion. Instead, people should get meywa plasm comparable to winning a boss fight (Based on participation just like the bayld is now of course). That would probably get everyone doing these things and no one would mind the trash drop rates or having to do them ten times.

Turning it into a direct Bayld to Plasm transfer would be pretty fun way for SE to not create another blinker situation. I can get behind this. But still force a reroll on duplicate rares SE. It shouldn't be hard to do.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 03:55 AM

@Deamon:

How many WK have you done exactly? Did you get the drop you were after on the first try? Have you had the misfortune of repeatedly spamming the same WK and getting an item useable by a job that is still lvl 1 and unused over and over?
My partner has been going to every hurkan fight possible and walked away with the bullet... every... single... time.

I was lucky, Yumcax dropped the GA on my first run (ew, no thanks.) and Hurkan dropped the grip (again, not what i wanted but whatever).
After that I "purchased" (chose from order up) the gloves from Yumcax and got the hat from Hurkan on my next fight (/hurray). I won't dare attempt any of these fights again. Not because I have the items I need (I'd love the mage gear too), not because I don't have the bayld, but because the chances of actually getting rewarded for my time/effort are drastically reduced now. Do you not understand that?

Congrats on spamming Qilin. How many times did you spend fighting it repeatedly for hours on end only to walk away with a single log and nothing else?
No matter what way you look at it, you usually always walk away with something you can sell and make some gil on. If you don't it's not like you actually lost anything and it didn't take half a day to kill (you get ~20-30 chances at the item you want from VW in the same time it takes to kill a WK once). WK reives don't even cover the cost of the KI in bayld and can repeatedly drop the same item, over and over, and over and over... Also, don't start bringing up the cost of cells as you will make enough cruor in 1 run to cover the cost of cells and still be in cruor profit. People who didn't need coruscanti from Qilin still participated as there are other rewards and you can make gil in the process. Nobody will repeat WK reives once they have their items because the selling point is:
"Waste between 25 and 50k bayld for a log and the possibility of nothing else."

If you are already holding the item you initially roll during a WK reive, you should get a re-roll from a pool that includes the items you don't have and some high value ingots/materials etc.
Edit: I believe DemonJustin also suggested having the crafting mats from delve bosses also drop from WK's, this would be a good pool to put them in i guess.

The more I read your posts, the more I suspect you just like reading your own words, and will argue against anything if it puts you in the spotlight for 5 minutes.

I've only done Hurkan once. Look what you are saying. How many even have 1 drop that you have? Personally I don't have any items from WR yet.

Your standards are way too high if you think your chances are too low. You already got a good few items tells me that its not impossible to get something.

What's the point in having rare items if people expect them to be easy to obtain? Surely I can't be the only person who appreciates this.

Even though I never got a coruscanti I'm ok with that. I still had fun making friends, spending time with various people trying to earn something we all wanted but you see the difference? I don't care about items. I care about the experience. Yeah it sucked I spammed Qilin 2,000+ times and got crap but I still use my Fajin boots and I did make Gil to allow me to keep playing the event than waste all my time farming and taking a break from it.

And thanks for judging me. I don't come to the forums to be in the spotlight. I actually thought you were a cool person. If you and the 3 people who hit like agree with you then I don't mind staying off the forums trying to help others.

It's sad because I see you all the time in game. And if you really knew me then you'd know I spend about 75% of my insane time helping others including joining events like Taxet to help people get Ki even though I already have it. And yes I even pass all items too.

detlef

08-08-2013, 04:08 AM

I've only done Hurkan once. Look what you are saying. How many even have 1 drop that you have? Personally I don't have any items from WR yet.You will not have as many opportunities to fight this NM in the future as you think. If you don't get the drops you want now, you will not be able to obtain them at all when the playerbase loses interest. You will have to set your sights on something else like new bayld gear or skirmish gear.

OmnysValefor

08-08-2013, 04:09 AM

I think the difference between you and me is that I'm use to spamming a boss a million times from games like Ragnarok to earn a rare at 0.1 drop rate and know if you really want something you don't hunt it regardless of the spawn condition 10-15 times and complain.

ITT: People in FFXI don't know what killing things a bunch is like? Most of us are very familiar with it. The problem, in its entirety, is that you have to hope that the rest of the server cares about the task, and that the people who choose to come come on the right jobs. Seriously. 5 hour hurkan at 100% should be impossible, but if it can happen, this early. It's going to happen a lot more often as people get their rewards/stop caring.

You could not have paid me to go to an Achuka/Tchakka before the update. Why? Because they were six hour fights and the rewards sucked.

Although items like Defending Ring is nice, are you people seriously telling me that Wildskeeper is worse????

Seriously I already told all of you it took me 10 years to finally get a Dalmatica +1. I don't feel like that was unfair because now that I got it, it's the best item I treasure most that means more than any other item I have.

(This quote was not in reply to me, I know) I don't have my defending ring. It was on my shopping list, but I didn't expect it to eb made easier. Yes, I'm taking full advantage of the login campaigns, but meh. Is that how you got your Dalmy+1's Abj? It would be sensible if you needed it.

And guess what? I never went back to Odin after I got my ABJ. I'm done with that. Which is exactly why I think people should be present over these events longer. Your presence helps others.

Oh, that's how you got it. But no, Dalmy +1 is nothing very very special these days. The augments are nice, but they may not last much longer.. and some people just stop caring, along with the number of people who just don't wanna go in the first place. I know a number of people who've never been to a Naakual.

You know why I don't understand people's anger? It's been addressed already and it's still not good enough.

Complaining about the drop rate over items as powerful as these.

Improvements to bad design. Also, this POV is why I wish they'd just raised level cap. This gear is powerful against Tojil, his ilk, and any lesser mob you want to unleash your fury on, but the thing is, when you get to new Delve, your power is going to be diminished. New Delve will expect you to be in gear like this.

Luckily, I'm a paladin, and SE has forgotten I existed, but is it fair to a monk in my position, if he's gone several times and has only managed to get the grip and bullet? It's taken me weeks to do 8 hurkans. In VW's day, you could do 80 Uptalas, or what'shisname in KRT.

What happened to other aspects of the event? Partying with people and enjoying the game with friends, seeing the new changes the DEVs working hard to provide?

Appreciation?

I'm blinded by the aspects of the event like there being no auto-translate for "Please, everyone, stay dead so that the boss goes passive. I'm talking to you Twilight Zombie.". Seriously, I picked up a Hurkan at 3 in the afternoon, well before raid time, and it rode over LS {Gather Together} time by an hour. "Luckily", several of the ls were there, and nobody expected a Hurkan to last that long, so we rode it out. Also, not to brag, really, but I was the only paladin there that could withstand his damage. If I left, it woulda made it much worse for the rest of the group. And no, there was no RUN able to tank this one either.

They have done several things to improve colo rate, bayld gain, etc, but the loot system is still bad. It is.

svengalis

08-08-2013, 04:11 AM

Not sure how you can say that it "really doesn't take much effort" when you just described a frustrating 7-8 hour train wreck. Personally I'd just stop going if I got too frustrated. Same result though, one fewer participant.

Because it didn't take much effort to obtain the bayld at all. And the only reason the wk took so long was because of silly mistakes.

svengalis

08-08-2013, 04:12 AM

Daemon

08-08-2013, 04:18 AM

ITT: People in FFXI don't know what killing things a bunch is like? Most of us are very familiar with it. The problem, in its entirety, is that you have to hope that the rest of the server cares about the task, and that the people who choose to come come on the right jobs. Seriously. 5 hour hurkan at 100% should be impossible, but if it can happen, this early. It's going to happen a lot more often as people get their rewards/stop caring.

You could not have paid me to go to an Achuka/Tchakka before the update. Why? Because they were six hour fights and the rewards sucked.

(This quote was not in reply to me, I know) I don't have my defending ring. It was on my shopping list, but I didn't expect it to eb made easier. Yes, I'm taking full advantage of the login campaigns, but meh. Is that how you got your Dalmy+1's Abj? It would be sensible if you needed it.

Oh, that's how you got it. But no, Dalmy +1 is nothing very very special these days. The augments are nice, but they may not last much longer.. and some people just stop caring, along with the number of people who just don't wanna go in the first place. I know a number of people who've never been to a Naakual.

Improvements to bad design. Also, this POV is why I wish they'd just raised level cap. This gear is powerful against Tojil, his ilk, and any lesser mob you want to unleash your fury on, but the thing is, when you get to new Delve, your power is going to be diminished. New Delve will expect you to be in gear like this.

Luckily, I'm a paladin, and SE has forgotten I existed, but is it fair to a monk in my position, if he's gone several times and has only managed to get the grip and bullet? It's taken me weeks to do 8 hurkans. In VW's day, you could do 80 Uptalas, or what'shisname in KRT.

I'm blinded by the aspects of the event like there being no auto-translate for "Please, everyone, stay dead so that the boss goes passive. I'm talking to you Twilight Zombie.". Seriously, I picked up a Hurkan at 3 in the afternoon, well before raid time, and it rode over LS {Gather Together} time by an hour. "Luckily", several of the ls were there, and nobody expected a Hurkan to last that long, so we rode it out. Also, not to brag, really, but I was the only paladin there that could withstand his damage. If I left, it woulda made it much worse for the rest of the group. And no, there was no RUN able to tank this one either.

They have done several things to improve colo rate, bayld gain, etc, but the loot system is still bad. It is.

DJ took me to Hurkaan last week. I actually joined the party before it started but since I never went to that map I had to walk there, get waypoints and then do the climbing quest. By the time I got there HP was down to about 30%. It died in less than 3 hours since it popped.

I was on scholar so the first thing I did was use TR and spam Kaustra and Ice helix. I also saw other scholars spamming Kaustra but on our way to the site we saw parties taking down reives which were in the way.

Point is, I think the new adjustment allowing colonization rate stay up longer made a significant improvement than before. Yet I see people saying these bosses take 10-27 hours longer I'm not understanding why it took only 3 hours for us.

Especially when it died from 30% in 20 minutes upon arriving.

The point is I'm not understanding how people say it takes soooooooo long making me believe its such a horrible event but when I went there it wasn't sooooooooooo horrible as I heard it to be. Unless people over exaggerated it on the forums.

Which is fine if people want to do that but if I was a DEV and implemented it to be easy and someone came here making sound like its not then I wouldn't take any of the feedback seriously. Devs are not stupid.

So unless I encounter a 10-27 hour fight, I can't complain. One thing I know about FFXI is that there are certain conditions that need to be met and for those who spent 10-27 hours doing these. Maybe you are doing something wrong.

And in my eyes, doing something right means the Devs did implement a way.

detlef

08-08-2013, 04:36 AM

Because it didn't take much effort to obtain the bayld at all. And the only reason the wk took so long was because of silly mistakes.Oh you were talking about accumulating Bayld. Well I won't disagree with you on that, although the effort adds up when you have to repeat the fight many times. When I was talking effort, I was referring to the fight itself.

I doubt I will ever get any delve boss drops any time( if ever) soon.You'll still be affected when players decide not to fight the current naakuals and focus on their Delve counterparts instead.

It died in less than 3 hours since it popped.

Yet I see people saying these bosses take 10-27 hours longer I'm not understanding why it took only 3 hours for us.

Especially when it died from 30% in 20 minutes upon arriving.You have fought one naakual. One. You are lucky you had a good experience. Realize also that 3 hours is still a pretty long time considering the current state of the game.

Try Yumcax and you'll find that some fights are quick and painless while others could be used to extract secrets from suspected terrorists.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 04:39 AM

Oh you were talking about accumulating Bayld. Well I won't disagree with you on that, although the effort adds up when you have to repeat the fight many times. When I was talking effort, I was referring to the fight itself.

You'll still be affected when players decide not to fight the current naakuals and focus on their Delve counterparts instead.

You have fought one naakual. One. You are lucky you had a good experience. Realize also that 3 hours is still a pretty long time considering the current state of the game.

Try Yumcax and you'll find that some fights are quick and painless while others could be used to extract secrets from suspected terrorists.

Well I never spoke out on how it takes too long to fight a boss. My argument was about making items a guarantee drop. Meaning i dont agree to those who say they deserve to get the best rare all because they have all the other drops like grip, cape etc for spending 10 hours to fight a boss. I personally don't think there is a problem with drop rate. Rares are suppose to be just that "RARE."

If that's the case then I deserve a coruscanti and every other rare I've ever hunted for wasting all that time so I can stop playing those areas and have a better reason to no longer play FFXI after I get everything.

This was my entire point. It's not that I'm trying to put myself in the spotlight for 5 minutes. I just think the game is starting to shape up to be better than before which I haven't felt like that in a long time since ToAu.

But I do read and respond to people with respect. It's not that I like to read my own post but I've been criticized, put down, and humiliated by mean players for taking my words, twisting them around to make me look like a horrible person so that's why I try to re-read what I write and make sure I'm presenting my words carefully.

detlef

08-08-2013, 04:47 AM

Honestly? For the effort you put in you DO deserve a Coruscanti.

Bamph

08-08-2013, 04:49 AM

Well I never spoke out on how it takes too long to fight a boss. My argument was about making items a guarantee drop. Meaning i dont agree to those who say they deserve to get the best rare all because they have all the other drops like grip, cape etc for spending 10 hours to fight a boss. I personally don't think there is a problem with drop rate. Rares are suppose to be just that "RARE."

We need a bubble, like the rare bubble, that says "uber-rare." The lucky people can get it on the first drop, but the rate is just so bad on dropping. I'd love to have gear like that!

Daemon

08-08-2013, 04:52 AM

We need a bubble, like the rare bubble, that says "uber-rare." The lucky people can get it on the first drop, but the rate is just so bad on dropping. I'd love to have gear like that!

Yeah like how VW drops have the star next to it.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 04:56 AM

Honestly? For the effort you put in you DO deserve a Coruscanti.

And til this day the Devs still haven't made adjustments to VW. I've made rants about how unfair I've seen 4 other people get the dagger twice only to pulse it in my face. That's insulting to take a multi million Gil item that I could have bought more than 3 daggers by then had the cells been up in AH, had i also not spent all that Gil on voiddust/cells all because "I have one already, Owell dont need another one, I could use the 8 mil I can get selling the cell"

Then again how insulting to watch people bring a duel box mule and get it.

Literally I sold all my HMP so I could buy cells, upgrade atmas, buy voiddust just to keep playing VW because stones did not replenish fast enough spamming Qilin 12 hours a day.

OmnysValefor

08-08-2013, 05:09 AM

Before I got my Mekira (I was about 1/150, thankfully), some guy was on his first run, and says in party "I got some body...?". lol.

I know your pain, although 150 is nothing. I know two people that claim to be more than 0/600 on Mekira. One finally got it, the other broke down and bought the cells.

Still, the nice part about VW, is it was tempting to the best players. We can have talk about elitism and everything else, but let me say Hurkans are gonna be fun when the only thing capped about the full Orvail summoners is their job level, the corsairs wanna know how to macro Quickdraw, and the best paladin that will come is wearing a Steadfast, or no DT gear but that new shield, if that.

detlef

08-08-2013, 05:09 AM

The point is that just because Voidwatch was bad, it doesn't mean that everything should be bad. It just makes you sounds like a curmudgeon.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 05:16 AM

The point is that just because Voidwatch was bad, it doesn't mean that everything should be bad. It just makes you sounds like a curmudgeon.

I don't think it's bad. I think it's unfair but my opinion doesn't matter. I've accepted the fact that ill never get one now. I mean no point because its not worth it.

I just told you my story so you can understand that I know how harsh the game can be. I agree with all of you when rants are being made. Just some things I don't agree, I'll step in and share my opinion too.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 05:51 AM

You will not have as many opportunities to fight this NM in the future as you think. If you don't get the drops you want now, you will not be able to obtain them at all when the playerbase loses interest. You will have to set your sights on something else like new bayld gear or skirmish gear.

True but I don't see the shelf life fading that soon. I mean I'll go back to it after I finish remodeling my music production studio sometime next week. Been busy to the point I haven't even updated my client yet.

OmnysValefor

08-08-2013, 05:59 AM

Daemon

08-08-2013, 06:25 AM

Idk about Pheonix but the first round faded awfully fast on Valefor. Honestly, they're already fading now. They're not extremely hard to find (the old ones are, once again), but they're not easy to find either, and our JP community isn't exactly open about such shouts. If they had an alternate shout channel, I think they'd use it.

I think that this is a much better thing to point out to the Devs. The concern of making an event dependent on a massive amount of people when there is no way to determine if the man power will be available to play these events. So I agree.

I think Devs should add things I've stated in another post like adding a way to see who can team up specifically for WR. They did improve colonization rate but some servers may lack people.

I still think having Colonization reives in the way heading to the event makes its time consuming too. I mean we are wanting to play WR not CR.

I also think colonization rieves should have no effect on Nakuuals. We already spend too much time doing CR as it is, must we spend all day raising the rate before we participate?

Others pointed out that having an indicator telling everyone the percentage of health left of the boss would be good too.

Demon6324236

08-08-2013, 06:46 AM

DJ took me to Hurkaan last week. I actually joined the party before it started but since I never went to that map I had to walk there, get waypoints and then do the climbing quest. By the time I got there HP was down to about 30%. It died in less than 3 hours since it popped.Ya know what man, Ill see if Grey or Sono feel like setting up a Yumcax tonight or tomorrow night, Ill drag you along, you can let me know how enjoyable and fast it goes. If its anything like my other 3 fights against him I suggest you prepare to mess up your sleeping schedule, get very angry at people MPKing everyone, and are wide awake because it will take a few hours. After that, you can come back to this thread and explain how awesome this event is and how we are complaining needlessly and do not appreciate the event or Dev Teams work.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 06:49 AM

Ya know what man, Ill see if Grey or Sono feel like setting up a Yumcax tonight or tomorrow night, Ill drag you along, you can let me know how enjoyable and fast it goes. If its anything like my other 3 fights against him I suggest you prepare to mess up your sleeping schedule, get very angry at people MPKing everyone, and are wide awake because it will take a few hours. After that, you can come back to this thread and explain how awesome this event is and how we are complaining needlessly and do not appreciate the event or Dev Teams work.

Sounds like fun, although ill need to do skirmish with you to earn Bayld. I'll pay for that. But I don't think I can do it tonight. Most likely best to do it tomorrow.

MPK? I don't get mad I get even.

Demon6324236

08-08-2013, 06:53 AM

and our JP community isn't exactly open about such shouts. If they had an alternate shout channel, I think they'd use it.This is one of the things that pisses me off most about this game in general. About a week ago me and my friend were gonna do Yumcax, we waited for a while because we were doin other still till later in the night when more people seem to join Yumcax on Phoenix. The thing is, while we went to do all these other things like work on our Coalition ranks and do a Tojil, a JP was apparently shouting for Yumcax with 0 use of the Auto-Trans. Once we started, we were informed that a Yumcax had just ended about a hour before, by the time we got out there to fight with our small band of 30 people, the WK was still down, and popped about 5 minutes after we arrived. In the end the party dissolved due to lack of people joining and the fact many people had to go build Bayld for it thanks to having just killed it a few hours prior. So in the end we had a few people who entered, wasted their Bayld, as well as waiting our time shouting, and missing out on doing the very NM we wanted to, all because the JP player could not use the Auto-Trans. So trust me, not only your server with that issue.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 06:56 AM

This is one of the things that pisses me off most about this game in general. About a week ago me and my friend were gonna do Yumcax, we waited for a while because we were doin other still till later in the night when more people seem to join Yumcax on Phoenix. The thing is, while we went to do all these other things like work on our Coalition ranks and do a Tojil, a JP was apparently shouting for Yumcax with 0 use of the Auto-Trans. Once we started, we were informed that a Yumcax had just ended about a hour before, by the time we got out there to fight with our small band of 30 people, the WK was still down, and popped about 5 minutes after we arrived. In the end the party dissolved due to lack of people joining and the fact many people had to go build Bayld for it thanks to having just killed it a few hours prior. So in the end we had a few people who entered, wasted their Bayld, as well as waiting our time shouting, and missing out on doing the very NM we wanted to, all because the JP player could not use the Auto-Trans. So trust me, not only your server with that issue.

NA's do it all the time. Read 99% of the shouts in town. I don't think this is a JP specific problem. When I use easy English and auto translation in my shouts. I do get JPs to join my parties.

Most of time I use WoE (Excitement) (Team up?) ANY JOB (/Tell) (Thank you.)

Demon6324236

08-08-2013, 06:56 AM

MPK? I don't get mad I get even.So if we get MPKed you would simply MPK the entire Reive again? That sounds wonderful.

Demon6324236

08-08-2013, 06:59 AM

NA's do it all the time. Read 99% of the shouts in town. I don't think this is a JP specific problem. When I use easy English and auto translation in my shouts. I do get JPs to join my parties.As do I, but my point was is more or less I hate the lack of people using the feature. In some cases I can understand it, highly organized events like perhaps Tojil or something, but this... no...

Daemon

08-08-2013, 07:00 AM

So if we get MPKed you would simply MPK the entire Reive again? That sounds wonderful.

No not my intention to MPK the entire rieve, but if someone is being an idiot I could be their worst nightmare if I have to. If that person is intentionally doing it on purpose.

Thorbean

08-08-2013, 07:01 AM

I've only done Hurkan once. Look what you are saying. How many even have 1 drop that you have? Personally I don't have any items from WR yet.

Your standards are way too high if you think your chances are too low. You already got a good few items tells me that its not impossible to get something.

What's the point in having rare items if people expect them to be easy to obtain? Surely I can't be the only person who appreciates this.

Even though I never got a coruscanti I'm ok with that. I still had fun making friends, spending time with various people trying to earn something we all wanted but you see the difference? I don't care about items. I care about the experience. Yeah it sucked I spammed Qilin 2,000+ times and got crap but I still use my Fajin boots and I did make Gil to allow me to keep playing the event than waste all my time farming and taking a break from it.

And thanks for judging me. I don't come to the forums to be in the spotlight. I actually thought you were a cool person. If you and the 3 people who hit like agree with you then I don't mind staying off the forums trying to help others.

It's sad because I see you all the time in game. And if you really knew me then you'd know I spend about 75% of my insane time helping others including joining events like Taxet to help people get Ki even though I already have it. And yes I even pass all items too.

1: Like I said, i was really lucky, just like those folks who got coruscanti on their first Qilin. I know first hand how terrible the drop system is though. It's even worse when you remember that progression is now based on item level. People are essentially being prevented from leveling up, even after getting the "experience".

2: I'm glad you enjoyed, and made friends in the process of farming Qilin. The reason that was possible is people could make money doing it, even if they didn't get the item they wanted. They could also pulse some items if they happened to get the same drop twice. WK reives will be completely dead once everyone has the items they want. The only thing they will be able to get is a pebble or log at the cost of 25-50k bayld.

3: What I do or don't think of you is irrelevant. I have no interest in what you do in game, and how you conduct yourself in game has nothing to do with the flaws in the WK drop system.

Edit:

No not my intention to MPK the entire rieve, but if someone is being an idiot I could be their worst nightmare if I have to. If that person is intentionally doing it on purpose.

You think an MPKer cares about someone else MPKing them and the rest of the zone in the process? You are just making their job easier.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 07:04 AM

As do I, but my point was is more or less I hate the lack of people using the feature. In some cases I can understand it, highly organized events like perhaps Tojil or something, but this... no...

When I invite people, I look at the limitations of the shout. If I have to, I'll even go pop inside each Abby and shout 2-3 times. Check other high level maps and head over to shout because you'd be surprised at how many people didn't know about the event and wanted to join only to be somewhere else.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 07:07 AM

WK reives will be completely dead once everyone has the items they want.

And this is the reason why I did not agree making drop rate easier which was what all of my comments were about to begin with.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 07:25 AM

1: You think an MPKer cares about someone else MPKing them and the rest of the zone in the process? You are just making their job easier.

Who said anything about me MPKing an MPKer? That would be stupid especially if its an ochain paladin. Best thing to do in a case like this is be a better supporter, keep the party alive than make it easier for the so called MPKer. Dodge the idiot trying to make it harder for those who show up. And if the person is really an idiot ill walk away which is 1 less person to help the entire group.

MPKers need to learn that they need each and every person there to win unless they want to waste endless hours in failure. I've done it many times. Especially leading a group, had more than 10 people get up and walk out just to stop the event from happening. That's how I approach things when I get even
I may not convince people in WR because they already spent Bayld to be there but at least the difference I can make is address the person nicely and ask them to be more careful.

Sometimes people don't do things intentionally and communication can work. It's the airheads who purposely and intentionally try to ruin an event making everyone's life miserable.

To me that's more powerful than sitting there wasting my time trying to contribute to an event that clearly shows the effort is not worth it.

One event a long time ago I had all my friends stay down after death until the person realized he can't win without us. That's power.

detlef

08-08-2013, 07:28 AM

And this is the reason why I did not agree making drop rate easier which was what all of my comments were about to begin with.I've stated it constantly in this thread but you do not seem to be processing it. The event will die when Delve is updated. If you can't get your drops before then, you will not get them. Basically you are arguing that nobody should get what they want.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 07:37 AM

I've stated it constantly in this thread but you do not seem to be processing it. The event will die when Delve is updated. If you can't get your drops before then, you will not get them. Basically you are arguing that nobody should get what they want.

And you are stating confidently as a fact that every single person on the entire server will never be interested in doing Nakuuls because they rather spend much more time in Delve?

So I'm assuming you think everyone cares about the best items and nothing else? Does it not take gear to obtain gear because I thought someone stated earlier that most likely you will need Nakuul gear to play the new delve once its implemented.

I mean entering SoA I just don't see people getting Bayld gear then heading straight for the new Delve. May be possible no doubt. But at least while working on old delve gear players will still be able to work on skirmish/ Wildskeeper reives to gain items that will help them play the new Delve.

So The Devs wouldn't be smart enough to continue the tier tradition? Yeah I saw how the Devs screwed up once SoA was released but they have been working effortlessly to work out each area and still are trying to balance out the game.

Because I see that I'm still not agreeing. I do think they are trying to balance out so all areas of SoA have its purposes.

Then again I'm sure the DEV who made Wildskeeper Rieves did not waste his time to make a one hit wonder event only to see everyone lose interest in his work in less than half a year after implementing it.

The DEV team has the majority of players interest at SoA right now. It just doesn't make sense Wildskeeper Reives would be purposely killed off in such a short time.

You may all not like my response but then again how would you see anyone else's point of view if we didn't say anything?

Thorbean

08-08-2013, 07:47 AM

And this is the reason why I did not agree making drop rate easier which was what all of my comments were about to begin with.

Make it take longer to get the piece you want, and the problem will still pop up 3-4 months down the line when you realize that the only thing you can get from that fight is a log/pebble. That's my point. The drop rate is 100%, the problem is, once you have all the items, you then have a 100% chance of obtaining nothing of value.
That's ok though right?

Like I said, if you roll an item you already have, it should reroll from a pool of decent loot that includes the items you don't already have.

detlef

08-08-2013, 07:49 AM

And you are stating confidently as a fact that every single person on the entire server will never be interested in doing Nakuuls because they rather spend much more time in Delve?

So I'm assuming you think everyone cares about the best items and nothing else? Does it not take gear to obtain gear because I thought someone stated earlier that most likely you will need Nakuul gear to play the new delve once its implemented.

So The Devs wouldn't be smart enough to continue the tier tradition? Yeah I saw how the Devs screwed up once SoA was released but they have been working effortlessly to work out each area and still are trying to balance out the game.

Because I see that I'm still not agreeing. I do think they are trying to balance out so all areas of SoA have its purposes.

Then again I'm sure the DEV who made Wildskeeper Rieves did not waste his time to make a one hit wonder event only to see everyone lose interest in his work in less than half a year after implementing it.I'm saying that a sizable portion of the server population is capable of killing Delve mega bosses right now. That population would be willing to participate in Wildskeeper if the drops are worthwhile. If significantly more powerful drops are introduced in the next chapter of Delve (with upgrades similar to the existing mega bosses' drops vs. the original 3 Naakuals), then there will be no reason for those players to do Wildskeeper. There is no reason to put up with that BS when you can do Delve instead for guaranteed drops that are also more powerful.

This affects you, the casual player, because those are the best and most organized players on the server. This is not like Salvage where you only have to find 2 other people or Nyzul where you need to find 5 other people. You need far more than that for Yumcax and Hurkan for various reasons. When a significant number of people are no longer interested in Wildskeeper, it will make the fights exponentially more difficult. But that outcome seems to be what you want, so have fun with that.

FrankReynolds

08-08-2013, 07:52 AM

Make it take longer to get the piece you want, and the problem will still pop up 3-4 months down the line when you realize that the only thing you can get from that fight is a log/pebble. That's my point. The drop rate is 100%, the problem is, once you have all the items, you then have a 100% chance of obtaining nothing of value.
That's ok though right?

Like I said, if you roll an item you already have, it should reroll from a pool of decent loot that includes the items you don't already have.

You're both right. He's right in that people will stop doing these once they get the R/E item they want. You're right in that people will stop doing them soon anyways because there are / will be faster ways to get better drops.

They need to add more bayld and or plasm to this event in order to give people a reason to keep doing it after they get the gear and or even if they don't want the gear. Otherwise it might as well be campaign in a few weeks.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 08:08 AM

I'm saying that a sizable portion of the server population is capable of killing Delve mega bosses right now. That population would be willing to participate in Wildskeeper if the drops are worthwhile. If significantly more powerful drops are introduced in the next chapter of Delve (with upgrades similar to the existing mega bosses' drops vs. the original 3 Naakuals), then there will be no reason for those players to do Wildskeeper. There is no reason to put up with that BS when you can do Delve instead for guaranteed drops that are also more powerful.

This affects you, the casual player, because those are the best and most organized players on the server. This is not like Salvage where you only have to find 2 other people or Nyzul where you need to find 5 other people. You need far more than that for Yumcax and Hurkan for various reasons. When a significant number of people are no longer interested in Wildskeeper, it will make the fights exponentially more difficult. But that outcome seems to be what you want, so have fun with that.

I think you are making a conclusion over something that has not happened yet too soon. Devs have been pumping out updates filled with new content and adjustments.

We don't even know how hard the new Delve will be. From what I've seen Devs released colonization reives, failed because it was too hard, Devs adjusted it why? Trial and error? Feedback?

Who's to say they won't do the same when they do release the new delve? We may never know until it happens but I highly doubt they would stand there and let WR die out this early in the expansion. It's too big of an event to make it completely useless.

It's not like killing off Dunes. Especially with the rewards you get from WR which I still think is far more superior than old content like sea/sky/NNI..

detlef

08-08-2013, 08:18 AM

Who's to say they won't do the same when they do release the new delve? We may never know until it happens but I highly doubt they would stand there and let WR die out this early in the expansion. It's too big of an event to make it completely useless.How can you even say that with a straight face? Recent history shows that SE has no problem killing off events before they can even generate interest within the playerbase or have you forgotten about Skirmish?

Also, do you still see people doing Achuka, Tchakka, or Colkhab for any reason other than the Order Up quest? A one-time quest which is only necessary because it's so hard to get the gear you want?

Daemon

08-08-2013, 08:23 AM

How can you even say that with a straight face? Recent history shows that SE has no problem killing off events before they can even generate interest within the playerbase or have you forgotten about Skirmish?

Also, do you still see people doing Achuka, Tchakka, or Colkhab for any reason other than the Order Up quest? A one-time quest which is only necessary because it's so hard to get the gear you want?

And Devs are robots? You must think making a video game is extremely easy because for the past 2 months, the amount of time they released all this content shows they have been working hard. We saw Rune and Geo AF before SoA was officially released via live video feed on YouTube. 5 months later they release it in the current update. Does that not tell you something?

Killing off older content sure but SoA is not old content.

Devs put out the updates adding new stuff but I'm sure they have somebody out there watching the results. How else can they state "known issues" and say "we are currently working on fixing this."

We have confirmed that the following issues have been occurring after the version update that took place on Aug. 5, 2013. Investigation and recovery work is currently underway. We ask for your patience in this matter until the issue is addressed.

[Issue Details]

- An issue wherein if you equip the items “Shoal Maillot +1” or “Shoal Trunks +1” on your fellow (female Hume, female Elvaan, or Mithra only), the graphics does not display properly.

- An issue wherein if you select one of the following items when trading with NPC Masad, you end up with an item that you did not select.

* Morass Tunic
* Woodland Tunic
* Morass Pants
* Woodland Pants

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.

That tells me someone is watching.

I apologize we weren’t able to introduce the new skirmishes at the same time as this version update. While you all enjoy the content added with this version update, we will be working to deliver the additional version update, so please hang in there just a little while longer.

This tells me they are trying to make Skirmish popular again.

The difficulty of lair and colonization reives in the following areas have been adjusted.
The detection radii, spawning numbers, HP, attack, and other attributes of monsters appearing in reives have been decreased to better accommodate solo players and small parties.

This tells me they heard everyone's feedback and adjusted it to be better.

You can only expect hard working people to do so much.

Ever worked a job where you are working so hard and doing your absolute best only to have your boss breathe down your neck even though you are doing more than what the job requires you to do? That's only 1 person.

Imagine how many complaints they get per day from all people not just JP or NA, but France, China, Europe and so on... Like I said I use to complain but now I just see that it doesn't help them do their jobs any easier.

Which is why I have been so defensive for the DEV team.

If I didn't see any improvements then I'd be here agreeing with all of you.

I feel sorry for Matsui, I had the assumption that he was taking the game in a horrible direction but now I feel like I didn't even give they guy a chance. He has shown me he is doing his best and I appreciate it more than ever.

These updates are showing it.

detlef

08-08-2013, 09:00 AM

I feel like you didn't read what I wrote... Do you know what Skirmish is?

Daemon

08-08-2013, 09:05 AM

I feel like you didn't read what I wrote... Do you know what Skirmish is?

Did you not read my response?

I apologize we weren’t able to introduce the new skirmishes at the same time as this version update. While you all enjoy the content added with this version update, we will be working to deliver the additional version update, so please hang in there just a little while longer.

If it was the Devs intention to kill off Skirmish why would they further work on it?

By Matsui himself.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/36372-August-6th-%28JST%29-Version-Update-Digest

Demon6324236

08-08-2013, 09:10 AM

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i372/demon6324236/Capture.png
Once again my 4 hours to build Bayld & 3 hours to fight Hurkan have been rewarded.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 09:12 AM

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i372/demon6324236/Capture.png
Once again my 4 hours to build Bayld & 3 hours to fight Hurkan have been rewarded.

Dang I wish I could play Hurkan with you lol.. Had fun last time... just been busy remodeling my studio.

detlef

08-08-2013, 09:14 AM

Did you not read my response?

If it was the Devs intention to kill off Skirmish why would they further work on it?

By Matsui himself.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/36372-August-6th-%28JST%29-Version-Update-DigestYou realize that there are two parts to Skirmish right? I'm obviously talking about the part that was already released. Skirmish I was essentially dead on arrival because Delve weapons completely destroyed Skirmish weapons.

Skirmish II is a completely separate thing that focuses on armor instead of weapons.

Demon6324236

08-08-2013, 09:17 AM

If it was the Devs intention to kill off SkirmishThis does not change the fact the original Skirmish was of horrible design. The pops to enter were far to rare that hardly anyone could afford to enter, the prices on entry items were in the millions. The same update which solved this horrible issue and made the event actually worth doing, killed it at the same time by introducing Delve. While Skirmish had random augments on your weapons which provided boosts that made them rival or surpass that of RME weapons, they required stones which were rare and expensive as well as R/EX. Delve on the other hand was fast paced, you would go in, get your NM win, get some Plasm, buy your item, and it would already be amazing, if you wanted to upgrade it more it was possible however never a requirement for the weapon to be of use. Delve also had a much greater verity in rewards, while Skirmish had craft items, scrolls, and the like, Delve had a large verity of gear ranging from Accessories to Armor and even things specifically for Ranged & Pet jobs like the Alternator, SMN Ammo, and Arrows. All in all Skirmish never was a good event, the time it was good to do no one could do it and once it was fixed something replaced it with gear and weapons that were a hundred times better.

No matter if they intended to kill it off or not, they did just that. Even if they update it now, it patches the event to be good, but the real question is, if Skirmish gear and WK gear were on par with one another when Adoulin was released, and then Delve for those areas crushed the gear from Skirmish and WKs, what do you really think is gonna happen when the new Delve areas are released? My guess, new Delve wish shit on Skirmish & WK gear we see now in exactly the same way.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 09:21 AM

Did you read this yet?

Greetings everyone,

Producer Matsui Akihiko has responded to some of the latest questions and feedback, so please have a read when you have a moment.

Hello, Matsui here.

Thank you for all of your feedback and thoughts.

I'd like to respond to some questions and feedback, as well as let you know some updates on content that is being adjusted.
Make item levels easier to see.
The development team would like to improve this, but this is something that we need some time to do.

Of the feedback we have received, requests for making this hidden (=a hidden stat) and requests for the addition of a new UI where this information could be consolidated stand out the most.
(The latter request also involving that it goes with the new Windows UI.)

In regards to the request for making it a hidden stat, if the rule was as simple as "item level 100 = +5 to each stat," then it wouldn't be that much of a problem; however, it's not as simple as this and I believe it would become even more difficult to understand.

Next, in order for us to change the display method and add a new UI, we would have to process the help text with the program itself and display it; however, the current help text is simply text data and addressing this would become difficult.

To solve this, we would have to make the display data into client data and create a system to display this data; however, this would impact the client memory in a large way. Additionally, the fact that there are a lot of special characteristics for FFXI equipment bonuses is yet another factor adding to the difficulty for this.

Instead of aiming for a perfect solution, I feel it would be best to put emphasis on making it better than it is currently.
You said you would be adding more physical damage reduction equipment, but it doesn’t look like you did.
The goal was not to increase the amount of physical damage reduction equipment; the goal was to close the gap that was opening up between the defensively proficient paladin and other jobs. (It's not that we are putting them at the same defensive level, we just want to shrink the large gap a bit.)

In other words, if we were to adjust the power of monster attacks with the original defensive difference, jobs other than paladins would end up taking severe damage or it would make all jobs completely unafraid of getting hit.

I'm also aware that only having physical damage reduction as we continue to make adjustments is somewhat problematic. (For example, it would take away the need to have curing power above a certain level.)

With that said, we are looking into alternative methods with jobs and items, and as we foresee that we can achieve our goal by mainly adjusting HP and defense, we have decided to make that the basis of our adjustments.

We apologize for making you worry about there not being any physical damage reduction stats; however, the adjustment plans that were conveyed previously have not been changed. Also, it's not like we are going to rule out physical damage reduction as an equipment bonus, and we plan on implementing gear in the future with this stat.
The effects of "magic damage +" is weak, so please make this value higher.
As this is something that is being worked on as a new parameter, the effect that you are seeing right now is in a weaker state than normal.

Once development and testing have been completed and the effect becomes what was planned, it will be a stat that can be understood better, and we will be keeping it as it is until that time.
How will you be enhancing magical accuracy for blue mage, dark knight, and ninja?
We will be introducing equipment with magic accuracy, but the main method of doing this will be by increasing magical accuracy and magic damage depending on the value of your "combat skill +" for the weapon equipped in your main hand.
Will the utsusemi adjustments apply to ninja support job as well?
Similar to the adjustments of the damage values for physical blue magic spells, this adjustment will only be applied to ninja when it is your main job.
There are some job abilities and equipment that are affected by level. Will these be affected by item levels?
Neither will be affected by item levels.
Make the item level of equippable items the same for each job.
I apologize for there not being enough equipment variations.

Due to the fact that there are a large amount of items in content such as skirmish, delve, and coalitions, as well as content such as wildskeeper reives that have different types of equipment, it's difficult to always have the same exact item levels for every job at any given point in time, but we will be preparing a variety of equipment that can be obtained in a variety of ways, which will enable you to procure all of the weapons for that item level.
(One large reason for this is that the rewards for wildskeeper reives have had their graphics designed based on the Naakuals.)

We are currently in the midst of preparing weapon enhancements and new armor for the new skirmishes which are in development, so please hang in there a bit longer.

Finally, I have one more thing I would like to inform you of.

Currently, of the shield stats that you can check on the Test Server, we’ve made the "shield skill +" values extremely small.

This is because these values were added based on the revamps to the shield activation rate calculation criteria; however, as a result of our testing, we've determined that when facing monsters that are above a certain strength the activation rate of Ochain has fallen roughly 30%.

Due to this, we are separating the criteria data and adding to the value of "shield skill +" so that the current shield activation rate is not changed.

I just wanted to let everyone know this ahead of time as I'm sure there would be some surprise when seeing this on the Test Server after I said there would not be large variations on the stats found there.

What this means is Matsui is paying attention. Give the guy a chance.

OmnysValefor

08-08-2013, 09:24 AM

Daemon

08-08-2013, 09:29 AM

Just to apply some simple logic. If you combine a 30% marjami (we can expect to see that in a few months) against the group comp that took 5 hours to kill a Hurkan, you're easily looking at 12 hour Hurkans, that's a generous because of 2hr's being restored. It might goe as long as 15 hours, who knows.

And that's if you ahve a good tank on the boss and a good healer on the tank. In 50% pdt and about 800 defense, hurkan would hit me for 800 when his aura was up, with no defense down debuff or anything.

Now, I already tried appealing to the delves on the difficulty:reward of WK reives, months ago, and that got no response. I tried a different approach with this thread.

Read this comment from Matsui

(Player Comment)It seems like you are working with the people who are favorably accepting the whole concept of content levels and item levels, while you ignore the majority of feedback which are filled with criticism and concern.

(Matsui Response) Ever since Adoulin was released, I feel like the player base is decreasing with every update, and it seems like this is going to continue.

If you really want to proceed with content levels and items levels, I really think you should hurry and address inventory issues and improve the job disparity due to item levels.

We don't need content that makes people leave, so please focus on making content that will bring people back from here on out.

Please keep doing your best from September on as well.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/36018-possible-oversight-with-the-new-ilvl-system?p=461098#post461098

I think they do see our concerns but because there are so many, they can only address a certain amount of things at a time. I say give the guy some time. He's trying.

detlef

08-08-2013, 09:32 AM

What this means is Matsui is paying attention.Wish you'd do the same. Some excellent points have been made against you, and now you're ignoring them and saying "have faith in Matsui." The legend continues...

Daemon

08-08-2013, 09:34 AM

Wish you'd do the same. Some excellent points have been made against you, and now you're ignoring them and saying "have faith in Matsui." The legend continues...

Tell me these points, I read everyone's comments. If you are trashing me then yeah I tend to ignore those post because not once have I trashed you.

detlef

08-08-2013, 09:35 AM

You ignored the whole part about obsoleting content quickly and brutally.

Demon6324236

08-08-2013, 09:39 AM

Give the guy a chance.I have been. Trust me, I have been. I have been backing up that guy on these forums more than you know, but this is the problem, you can not have blind faith and hope he does things right, no, for him to get things right he needs to know whats wrong. If we do not complain, give no feedback, and do not make sure they understand the severity of this issue, nothing will ever be done. I complain a ton, yes, but I do it because I know if I said nothing then nothing would change, simply siting around and dealing with it will only encourage it to continue. So while you are saying we should give the guy a chance, I am, I haven't quit as much as this game has been annoying me because I am giving him that chance to use our feedback and turn things around. But if the future of this game is me putting in 5+ hours of work for a single fkin log or ore, no, he wastes his chance. I have not given up hope, but my patience wears thin, he is not new here anymore, he has been around quite a while, done some good, some bad, and it seems as time goes on the bad is greater than the good, to much longer, and my faith in his ability to fix things will be gone, and so will I.

OmnysValefor

08-08-2013, 09:39 AM

They would do a lot better by the community than focusing, say, on inventory space, rather than some guy who repeatedly overpays at the auction house.

The development team does seem smaller these days. It makes it all the more aggravating when dev time goes into things noone cares about and ignores pressing concerns.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 09:51 AM

You ignored the whole part about obsoleting content quickly and brutally.

What does this have anything to do with me and my responses? I have not touched that topic nor have a ever disagreed with anyone who brought it up.

And if you are talking about Skirmish being killed off quickly when SoA was released? That's a whole other topic. SoA was new I admit. Delve killed it, I admit. But this conversation was already discussed that originally it seems Matsui created a Tier System expecting people to go from Coalition > Skirmish > Delve but the system was flawed and people ended up skipping Skirmish altogether diving straight into Delve.

It's also discussed that Matsui is now trying to fill in the gaps.

The way I see it, he put the base of the house down first and now he's trying to build on top of it. I doubt Matsui is going to kill off another event like WR because that would be wasting time and effort putting it in to begin with.

And I'm sure he is smart enough NOT to make the same mistake twice.

Sure Skirmish was a terrible tragedy but the best thing he can do is adjust it over time. Those who already got Delve weapons have no reason to get a Skirmish true but rather than accept defeat and abandon it, I see he is trying to adjust it for those who can't get a delve weapon. I mean how many DD complain they are not getting invites?

I'm sure this would be easier to obtain than a Mythic, cheaper than getting a Relic, and well much more fun than camping 8 hour NMs in old content for Emp.

Do you understand computer programming? You can't just fix something right on the spot. They have to adjust the files and then implement the changes which we download these files. And this takes a lot of time.

Now add up everything I've been saying.

Give the guy a chance.
They are paying attention.
They read our feedback.
They do try to address everyone but realistically they cannot please everyone.
They cannot afford to lose more players.
It takes time.
Be patient.
Progress can be seen, its not like they aren't doing anything.

As we are in midst of working on the July version update as well as the August version update, I'll need a bit more time before I can tell you new information, but I’ll be doing my best to deliver it to you as it becomes available.

OmnysValefor

08-08-2013, 10:10 AM

Give the guy a chance.
They are paying attention.
They read our feedback.
They do try to address everyone but realistically they cannot please everyone.
They cannot afford to lose more players.
It takes time.
Be patient.
Progress can be seen, its not like they aren't doing anything.

Have to stop you on that one, the first 2 are you giving them the benefit of the doubt, but if they tried to reply to everyone, we'd see something by now.

We'd see something actually done about inventory space. Chatoyant Gorget, and porter slips for bayld gear, as well base/fully mezzo'd delve gear are quite easy to implement.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 10:20 AM

Have to stop you on that one, the first 2 are you giving them the benefit of the doubt, but if they tried to reply to everyone, we'd see something by now.

We'd see something actually done about inventory space. Chatoyant Gorget, and porter slips for bayld gear, as well base/fully mezzo'd delve gear are quite easy to implement.

This is what Matsui said.

The way everyone thinks is different, and while a universally accepted answer is not very realistic, I will continue to do my best to ensure that I connect my responses to our position and conclusions that can be easily understood.

I dunno I spin in front of 2,000+ people on pride every year. I know I can't please everyone with my music but I try to play what's universally liked by most. Some people love Beyonce, some don't. So my POV is very much the same as the Devs therefore I can relate.

detlef

08-08-2013, 10:24 AM

What does this have anything to do with me and my responses? I have not touched that topic nor have a ever disagreed with anyone who brought it up.

And if you are talking about Skirmish being killed off quickly when SoA was released? That's a whole other topic. SoA was new I admit. Delve killed it, I admit. But this conversation was already discussed that originally it seems Matsui created a Tier System expecting people to go from Coalition > Skirmish > Delve but the system was flawed and people ended up skipping Skirmish altogether diving straight into Delve.When you said this:

Who's to say they won't do the same when they do release the new delve? We may never know until it happens but I highly doubt they would stand there and let WR die out this early in the expansion. It's too big of an event to make it completely useless.I called you on it. As we have seen with Skirmish, SE can and will obsolete content before you can even blink.

Therefore there is no reason to think that Wildskeeper is somehow exempt. It's logical to think that the drops from Hurkan and Yumcax, while relevant now, will likely be considered trash in the near future.

It's really in your best interest to get in on the fights now if you want to obtain the good drops while they are still relevant. Yes, people will stop coming when they get all the gear they want. But as I've said so many times already, people are going to stop coming anyway when better gear comes out.

SE might as well make it easier for players to get at least some of their desired items before interest wanes. The other alternative that you support is for smaller groups of casual players to tackle Wildskeeper fights at lower colonization rates while more progressive players participate in Delve for better versions of the gear that isn't going to load for you anyway.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 10:35 AM

When you said this:

I called you on it. As we have seen with Skirmish, SE can and will obsolete content before you can even blink.

Therefore there is no reason to think that Wildskeeper is somehow exempt. It's logical to think that the drops from Hurkan and Yumcax, while relevant now, will likely be considered trash in the near future.

It's really in your best interest to get in on the fights now if you want to obtain the good drops while they are still relevant. Yes, people will stop coming when they get all the gear they want. But as I've said so many times already, people are going to stop coming anyway when better gear comes out.

SE might as well make it easier for players to get at least some of their desired items before interest wanes. The other alternative that you support is for smaller groups of casual players to tackle Wildskeeper fights at lower colonization rates while more progressive players participate in Delve for better versions of the gear that isn't going to load for you anyway.

Ok but has the NEW delve happened yet? It maybe trash to those who already get drops from Hurkan and Yumcax but my response to you was i doubt it will be useless to those who don't even have it yet and if Matsui designs the tier system requiring people to have this gear to play new delve then I'm sure WR will survive longer than your example of people abandoning it right upon implementing new Delve.

People needed REM for delve and now many require delve weapons to farm plasm.

I seriously wonder how people will be when new Delve is implemented. You want the guy in AF3/NNI/Bayld gear? Or the guy in Nakuul gear?

And if the drop rate is a bad as people say it and takes so much time and effort to get it, then what will happen on the day you can only find 3-4 people with Nakuul gear and struggle to take down the new New Delve bosses?

OmnysValefor

08-08-2013, 10:38 AM

This is what Matsui said.

I dunno I spin in front of 2,000+ people on pride every year. I know I can't please everyone with my music but I try to play what's universally liked by most. Some people love Beyonce, some don't. So my POV is very much the same as the Devs therefore I can relate.

But if the crowd's chanting for hip hop, and one guy happens to be close enough asks for adult contemporary, which do you put on? SE would put on A/C.

To be honest, in the scenario, if 10% of the crowd want A/C, would you ever turn on any A/C? Of course you wouldn't.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 10:48 AM

But if the crowd's chanting for hip hop, and one guy happens to be close enough asks for adult contemporary, which do you put on? SE would put on A/C.

To be honest, in the scenario, if 10% of the crowd want A/C, would you ever turn on any A/C? Of course you wouldn't.

That example would be like if the crowd is asking to make FFXI more like diablo III and 1 guy in the crowd wants them to make it Tetris when the game is FFXI. Just like if I'm the DJ and my following knows I play EDM/ House and have followed me for many years then I'd stick to what my fanbase knows me for. As for the crowd wanting hip hop I could stop my flow and toss in a couple of tracks and go back to playing for the majority, but for the guy who wants adult contemporary, the only solution is to play a remix :)

But usually no tells me what to play. I have to play based on research, feedback and what I think the majority will like most.

And for the guy who wants country and opera? You are in a dance club.... Which deserves to be ignored.

detlef

08-08-2013, 10:54 AM

Ok but has the NEW delve happened yet? It maybe trash to those who already get drops from Hurkan and Yumcax but my response to you was i doubt it will be useless to those who don't even have it yet and if Matsui designs the tier system requiring people to have this gear to play new delve then I'm sure WR will survive longer than your example of people abandoning it right upon implementing new Delve.My point is that the number of Wildskeeper participants is going to continue dwindling so you might as well give players more of what they want before you get to a point where there is insufficient player interest to even win the fight.

FrankReynolds

08-08-2013, 10:57 AM

Daemon

08-08-2013, 10:58 AM

My point is that the number of Wildskeeper participants is going to continue dwindling so you might as well give players more of what they want before you get to a point where there is insufficient player interest to even win the fight.

Which would be a quick fix, rather than something over time.

What if the Devs added more Nakuuls? Different drops? Added other things to give people a reason to continue doing WR? Add better loots? More Kis? New spells with new scrolls? New Synthesis Materials?

VW wasn't perfect when it was first implemented and history shows that the Devs did add on top of events to improve them, not totally kill it. Why add Salvage II?

What 3-4 updates ago SE added Devious Die and Liminal Residue sachs to WoE because it took forever to get just 1. They could have left the event the way it was but they did it so people could make WoE weapons faster. They made it easier too so more people could low man play it.

Repeat, why on earth would they spend so much time making the event WR only to watch it die? This is MMORPG in real time. Not like you buy a PS3 game and move on to the next area never to go back to the previous parts of the game ever again...

You do know this is not the first time the Devs implemented an event like WR right?

FrankReynolds

08-08-2013, 11:07 AM

Which would be a quick fix, rather than something over time.

What if the Devs added more Nakuuls? Different drops? Added other things to give people a reason to continue doing WR? Add better loots? More Kis? New spells with new scrolls? New Synthesis Materials?

VW wasn't perfect when it was first implemented and history shows that the Devs did add on top of events to improve them, not totally kill it.

What 3-4 updates ago SE added Drvious Die and Liminal Residue pouch because it took forever to get just 1. They could have left the event the way it was but they did it so people could make WoE weapons faster.

To be honest, when they released VW, it sucked. SO I didn't do it. Then they improved a little, but it still basically sucked, so I didn't do it. Then they made it somewhat tolerable, but by that point I was really far behind and they had an expansion in the works... So I didn't do it. I just basically took a few months off completely and waited for VW to go away. Which it more or less did.

EDIT: I really don't want them to keep doing that. I don't like investing in an event in the hopes that some day it won't suck. A lot of times, things suck for a really long time. Sometimes they make them tolerable right before they come out with the next thing, but a lot of times it's not even soon enough to matter. It really robs the whole game of purpose.

OmnysValefor

08-08-2013, 11:09 AM

MORE fights that require 40-200 people is not the answer.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 11:20 AM

I dunno, you must be a glass half full kinda person. When I read that response in the JP thread, it sounded like the player (Quite respectfully and not at all like I am about to phrase it) said:

"WTF ARE YOU DOING? YOU"RE RUINING THE GAME AND EVERYONE IS LEAVING! STOP LISTENING TO YOUR FRIENDS AND LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!".

To which Matsui replied:

"oh well... If you don't like it don't play".

Every time he justifies a decision, he uses some outlandish excuse that has nothing to do with making group A or Group B happy. It's just a lucky coincidence if it pleases someone. Like when he said we had to have leveling through gear because the only option was raising the cap and that would mess something up... completely ignoring the merit system and the fact that gear messes up the whole game, not just the way some numbers display.

Then there is the fact that he keeps putting development time into crap like moogle gil storage chests that don't do anything useful while thousands of useful upgrades / fixes go unchecked for years. Would have really been that hard to make my gear all go in there instead?

Because he cannot please everyone. Then again programming is complicated. And PS2 limitations is destroying the game because of how advance technology is now. Can only do so much with:

CPU 128-bit[4][5] "Emotion Engine" clocked at 294.912 MHz (launch), 299 MHz (newer models)
PlayStation 2 memory card (8 megabyte officially supported; also available in 16, 32, 64 and 128 megabyte storage space)
PlayStation memory card (128 kilobyte/1 megabit)
40 GB Hard Drive (add-on)

Memory 32 MB of Direct RAMBUS or RDRAM 4 MB eDRAM

Graphics "Graphics Synthesizer" clocked at 147.456 MHz

13 years old technology.

detlef

08-08-2013, 11:24 AM

Which would be a quick fix, rather than something over time.

What if the Devs added more Nakuuls? Different drops? Added other things to give people a reason to continue doing WR? Add better loots? More Kis? New spells with new scrolls? New Synthesis Materials?There are at least 7 Naakuals. We’ll probably fight all of them. I don’t enjoy fighting them, I only do it because the drops are relevant right now. What new spells or scrolls could they possibly add? There are no new spells other than Geomancy, and those are already available from Skirmish.

VW wasn't perfect when it was first implemented and history shows that the Devs did add on top of events to improve them, not totally kill it. Why add Salvage II?

What 3-4 updates ago SE added Devious Die and Liminal Residue sachs to WoE because it took forever to get just 1. They could have left the event the way it was but they did it so people could make WoE weapons faster. They made it easier too so more people could low man play it.Voidwatch has always been barely tolerable because of the fact that you could spam the fights. Wildskeeper is not spammable and fights do not last 3 minutes like in Voidwatch. Please don’t use Walk of Echoes as a positive example. It was another event that was adjusted too little, too late. It may be that those coin weapons have a second life unlocking the weaponskills permanently but for now you can hardly consider WoE as one of SE’s triumphs.

Repeat, why on earth would they spend so much time making the event WR only to watch it die? This is MMORPG in real time. Not like you buy a PS3 game and move on to the next area never to go back to the previous parts of the game ever again...

You do know this is not the first time the Devs implemented an event like WR right?I’m pretty sure I’ve got way more experience playing this game than you do so yes, I’m aware that there have been large scale events in the game prior to Wildskeeper. You know what they have in common? They are hard to win when interest is low.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 11:28 AM

There are at least 7 Naakuals. We’ll probably fight all of them. I don’t enjoy fighting them, I only do it because the drops are relevant right now. What new spells or scrolls could they possibly add? There are no new spells other than Geomancy, and those are already available from Skirmish.

Voidwatch has always been barely tolerable because of the fact that you could spam the fights. Wildskeeper is not spammable and fights do not last 3 minutes like in Voidwatch. Please don’t use Walk of Echoes as a positive example. It was another event that was adjusted too little, too late. It may be that those coin weapons have a second life unlocking the weaponskills permanently but for now you can hardly consider WoE as one of SE’s triumphs.

I’m pretty sure I’ve got way more experience playing this game than you do so yes, I’m aware that there have been large scale events in the game prior to Wildskeeper. You know what they have in common? They are hard to win when interest is low.

And I've only been playing since day one and took a year off for school >.>

To me you sound like nothing is good enough for you. You maybe in WR moment of the game but you are complaining and acting as if everyone is on the same page as you.

I never said there are new spells. You pointed out a future event that no one will be playing WR when new delve comes out because it will be killed.

I said what happens if they add new spells and new scrolls which means if new spells are added they could put new scroll for those spells in Nakuuls.

WoE is not a bad example because if Devs do upgrade REM and allow people to unlock emp WS WoE path then people will be farming Devious Die and Liminal.

detlef

08-08-2013, 11:40 AM

And I've only been playing since day one and took a year off for school >.>

To me you sound like nothing is good enough for you. You maybe in WR moment of the game but you are complaining and acting as if everyone is on the same page as you.I don't know about everybody being on the same page as me, but let me know if you find somebody who is on the same page as you.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 11:44 AM

I don't know about everybody being on the same page as me, but let me know if you find somebody who is on the same page as you.

The only thing I said in all of my post was that I disagreed suggesting making everyone get a guaranteed rare drop from Wildskeeper Rieves.

That would be like saying I deserve a rare drop from every other boss. Which I think it's pointless.

How 1 opinion turned into a vs war with you.

I never disagreed how long it takes to kill a Nakuul. I've even agreed in other posts that it sounds retarded making us spend hours on 1 boss. I even stated Its a conflict with what the comment says on login screen "Do not forget your job, family, friends.

When I said same page as you it means that not everybody in game is the same as you able to play end game events and can complain that "I only got a grip and cape"

Which to me sounds like someone saying "I only got a Hyaline hat, Sanus Enis but no shield off PW." And I'm losing interest in this event because I can't stand fighting 3 bosses just to play PW.

Then again I could have been rude and said "Why you complaining? Stop crying over drop rate and how much time you spent and go back and try harder"

But I chose to be nice instead.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 12:13 PM

To be honest, when they released VW, it sucked. SO I didn't do it. Then they improved a little, but it still basically sucked, so I didn't do it. Then they made it somewhat tolerable, but by that point I was really far behind and they had an expansion in the works... So I didn't do it. I just basically took a few months off completely and waited for VW to go away. Which it more or less did.

EDIT: I really don't want them to keep doing that. I don't like investing in an event in the hopes that some day it won't suck. A lot of times, things suck for a really long time. Sometimes they make them tolerable right before they come out with the next thing, but a lot of times it's not even soon enough to matter. It really robs the whole game of purpose.

I agree with you Frank. I mean the anger meter was pretty high after 1,800+ out of 2k fights not getting a dagger off Qilin.

I just don't state that Nakuul is too hard or too time consuming because so much gear out right now and we don't know how the results can make a difference. I know gear makes a huge difference in anything you do but look at the player base who show up to Nakuuls or any event for that matter? Are they rocking out high end gear? Max upgraded delve weapons/armor? High end accessories? Using food?

Yet I'm seeing gimped mages, quick overnight paladins with Twilight gear etc...

Then again how would the difference be if people started showing up to WR with Nakuul gear pimped out? Colonization rate at 100%?

I means this is why I can't state facts like Hurkan takes 10 hours to kill!!! SE u suck!!! Plz fix it!!! (Yes that was an example not to be taken seriously.)

So that's why my POV is different than others.

I saw 1 person say Yumcax takes 27 hours, then someone else said 10 hours. So which is it lol? Cuz that a 17 hour big difference between the two.

detlef

08-08-2013, 12:17 PM

The only thing I said in all of my post was that I disagreed suggesting making everyone get a guaranteed rare drop from Wildskeeper Rieves.

That would be like saying I deserve a rare drop from every other boss. Which I think it's pointless.

How 1 opinion turned into a vs war with you.Okay this will be my last post (I say that but I can't guarantee that I'll be able to resist the urge to post again). I don’t think that you should get the exact item you want on the first try. What I think is that by the time you kill a Naakual for the nth time, where n = the number of unique drops, you should obtain the item. If you kill Yumcax 6 times and walk away with only 2 drops, then something is wrong. I hold this opinion for Wildskeeper only because of the demanding nature of the fight.

I never disagreed how long it takes to kill a Nakuul. I've even agreed in other posts that it sounds retarded making us spend hours on 1 boss. I even stated Its a conflict with what the comment says on login screen "Do not forget your job, family, friends.

When I said same page as you it means that not everybody in game is the same as you able to play end game events and can complain that "I only got a grip and cape"

Which to me sounds like someone saying "I only got a Hyaline hat, Sanus Enis but no shield off PW." And I'm losing interest in this event because I can't stand fighting 3 bosses just to play PW.As I said, I only hold that opinion for Wildskeeper. PW is stupid too, and any reasonable person can see that the fight was and is worthless. That’s an example of what happens when items become unobtainable: people ignore the event. I personally only have the staff, which autosorted to me. After participating a few times, I realized that the probability of any item dropping was low and the probability of winning the lot was going to result in a 1% chance of me walking away with my desired item. So I stopped going.

That’s been my argument all along. That people will not view Wildskeeper as a viable event and will just ignore it because it’s not worth the headache.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 12:40 PM

Okay this will be my last post (I say that but I can't guarantee that I'll be able to resist the urge to post again). I don’t think that you should get the exact item you want on the first try. What I think is that by the time you kill a Naakual for the nth time, where n = the number of unique drops, you should obtain the item. If you kill Yumcax 6 times and walk away with only 2 drops, then something is wrong. I hold this opinion for Wildskeeper only because of the demanding nature of the fight.

As I said, I only hold that opinion for Wildskeeper. PW is stupid too, and any reasonable person can see that the fight was and is worthless. That’s an example of what happens when items become unobtainable: people ignore the event. I personally only have the staff, which autosorted to me. After participating a few times, I realized that the probability of any item dropping was low and the probability of winning the lot was going to result in a 1% chance of me walking away with my desired item. So I stopped going.

That’s been my argument all along. That people will not view Wildskeeper as a viable event and will just ignore it because it’s not worth the headache.

Understood so now here's my point of view. FFX14 launches on the 27th. Devs know people are quitting. They know they need to do their best to keep us interested. It's their job and its pretty scary to be in Matsui's position right now because remember when 14 first failed? The worst disaster in final fantasy history. I'd hate to be the guy who ended an 11 year game entrusted to me to keep it going because I couldn't keep the fanbase happy.

Us DJs are exactly the same. Our biggest fear of the entire crowd leaving because we couldn't entertain them. Or didn't give the people what they wanted. And we are not mind readers.

We don't need content that makes people leave, so please focus on making content that will bring people back from here on out.

Matsui's Response: If it seems that way, it's just my inadequacy and I will do my best to work harder on this.

There are times when I get a bit hung up thinking about how to respond to dissenting opinions and criticism, but I will do my best to grasp the real meaning and make the appropriate response.

As a result of this there are times when I do not make direct replies to feedback, and as I am not always quoting text it may seem that your feedback is being ignored. Also, there are cases it might feel this way when you don't receive an answer to certain things you were expecting and the subject continues to shift.

While you may not have faith. After the last 2 updates I'm seeing better improvements than ever. When I first saw Tamaxchi I thought wow they are really trying to impress us now.

Yeah I know previous updates and fixes took forever but the man is showing he is trying. Look at the huge disappointment REM players complained about?

If I was in this guys shoes my face would be red and I'd be in panic mode right now.

Had they NOT made any adjustments in the past 2 months responding quickly to our complaints about several issues, then I'd be pissed off and be ranting even more and DEFINATLY would choose to move over to 14.

But I'm seeing something different in the DEV team right now that I did not see before.

We complained about colonization rieves being too hard. Fixed.

Gear difference from Abyssea to Adoulin. Did they make Bayld gear better? (I don't know because I haven't updated yet to check but I think DJ said they did) they sure made it easier to earn.

We complained 100k Bayld was too much. They lowered it. Raised rank for CR and now you can buy it even cheaper. To me that's a fix.

Point is. How long did they make us wait to fix these things? Not long.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I just think we should give them a chance and be a little more patient. I'm sure they cannot afford to disappoint anymore people as they already did. That would only make the game worse. And because I see how they have been responding lately is why I have been so defensive for the DEV team.

OmnysValefor

08-08-2013, 12:52 PM

Daemon

08-08-2013, 01:02 PM

In my opinion, I don't see him trying.

I see talk, and not much of that. I see a lot of silence and some talk. I haven't seen much done.

You're saying give him a chance, and you assume we haven't. We never get action.

Yeah but the tables have turned. Lots of pressure with FF14 around the corner.

My question is how much work do you think an artist, team of programmers, debugging, testing, graphics design artist, composers, musicians, recording studio, budget meetings, communicating with translators, feedback, responding to the community and so on do you think can fix everything people complain about?

How much time can you make your team do all of this? They are human beings too. In fact I'm surprised they could even release so much in 1 month with the previous 2 updates.

As I said if I did not see any improvements since before July and August update, I was already prepared to drop the game and move to 14.

Demon6324236

08-08-2013, 01:14 PM

Understood so now here's my point of view. FFX14 launches on the 27th. Devs know people are quitting. They know they need to do their best to keep us interested. It's their job and its pretty scary to be in Matsui's position right now because remember when 14 first failed? The worst disaster in final fantasy history. I'd hate to be the guy who ended an 11 year game entrusted to me to keep it going because I couldn't keep the fanbase happy.You see these complaints? You see them popping up all the time and not going away? These are not signs of a happy playerbase. If you want to see a happy playerbase you can not change the games direction radically while outdating some of the most popular and time taking things in every way relevant and then on top of it do very little to fix the issues your players have, and what you are doing that they ask, you put at the back of the line while you work on more things they think of as less important.

They changed the progression and speed of this game again, kept all of the annoying and horrible drops still, outdated RMEs as well as 90% of the rest of the game, and have received many complaints about it. Many people quit not long after Adoulin came out, more after Delve, and more even recently I am sure. As a whole, the playerbase does not seem happy, and the attempts to fix the issues we have such as RMEs seem so far at the back of the line it will be months before we see any update to fix the issues, after FFXIV comes out. So while you are pointing out he needs to keep the fanbase happy, he seems to be doing a horrible job at it. The best thing, or rather most well received thing to happen since Adoulin's release has been Monstrosity, which is great and fun, but will only last so long, people will eventually grow tired of leveling each type of mob starting at level 1 each time over and over again, fighting in the same areas at the same levels with the same targets. For now, its very enjoyable, but it will only last a while before it becomes boring to most.

As you said, he very likely knows that people will be quitting for FFXIV, and needs to keep us interested, so tell me, why is it they are doing more things which are chasing us away? I assure you, WK Reives and the time I have spent on them are not a great feature that would keep me playing, they are adding to the reasons for me to quit and move to FFXIV. So I can assure you, if his goal is to keep people here & playing this game, if he does not want to be known as the man who brought down the 11 year old FF game, he better fix some of this shit right now, because he has less than 20 days till FFXIV releases, and a ton of unhappy people will be leaving.

OmnysValefor

08-08-2013, 01:16 PM

No offense intended, it truly perplexes me how you can see the last several months as signs of good things. I see a lot of things that we weren't asking for.

Mog garden has its uses..I guess, but most days I get about 20k in npc'able stuff. How much time was wasted on that? It's not really gardening, it is its very own thing.. and noone was asking for it. It's nice to be able to npc things straight my moogle but they could have done that a long time ago, with the moogle in every mh.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 01:18 PM

Demon6324236

08-08-2013, 01:21 PM

My question is how much work do you think an artist, team of programmers, debugging, testing, graphics design artist, composers, musicians, recording studio, budget meetings, communicating with translators, feedback, responding to the community and so on do you think can fix everything people complain about?I will go by just WK Reives alone right now. Artist has nothing to do with drop rates, programmers do, debugging sure, testing yeah, graphics nope, composers nope, musicians nope, recording nope, budget meetings sure, translators nope, feedback sure, and responding to the community yeah. So out of your list the things that would be involved actually would be Programmers, Debugging it, Testing it, and looking at feedback while replying to it. Now, Programming I assume would be the most time taking, changing how the drops work and all, testing would be easy, throw a person in, give them a Brew, have them kill the NM, force it to repop instantly as well as give them the KI instantly, things I think would be easy for them, kill it again, do this over and over while dropping the items every time you have all 6, do this 25 times to make sure you get a gear drop each time, simple test, would easily see if it worked right I think. Feedback is simple too, look at forums, read forums, give devs a summery of player feedback, get told what to reply with if anything, have Com Rep make post in 5 minutes. Job is finished, players are happier.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 01:28 PM

I will go by just WK Reives alone right now. Artist has nothing to do with drop rates, programmers do, debugging sure, testing yeah, graphics nope, composers nope, musicians nope, recording nope, budget meetings sure, translators nope, feedback sure, and responding to the community yeah. So out of your list the things that would be involved actually would be Programmers, Debugging it, Testing it, and looking at feedback while replying to it. Now, Programming I assume would be the most time taking, changing how the drops work and all, testing would be easy, throw a person in, give them a Brew, have them kill the NM, force it to repop instantly as well as give them the KI instantly, things I think would be easy for them, kill it again, do this over and over while dropping the items every time you have all 6, do this 25 times to make sure you get a gear drop each time, simple test, would easily see if it worked right I think. Feedback is simple too, look at forums, read forums, give devs a summery of player feedback, get told what to reply with if anything, have Com Rep make post in 5 minutes. Job is finished, players are happier.

DJ you know very well SE doesn't adjust 1 thing. Look at the last 2 updates July and August. They just adjusted Colonization rate which also effects WR and reduced the amount of Bayld it takes to purchase a Ki. With this change alone do you think does nothing to WR?

Then it takes time to read and watch to see how the new adjustments works. Decide which complaints to address, pile onto the million on the other complaints DEV team is working on.

You do know DEVs just don't make instant schedules and say "Hey today I'm going to work on WR because I just read a post created 3 days ago."

Seriously?

Do you know how long it takes to produce music? Some days I can write a simple track in 4 hours or take up to a month or more. Then mixdown a few days, mastering a day or 2.

Listen to one of my remixes Wondergirls - Like Money. Also has one of my DJ mixes up.
Http://Soundcloud.com/djsparrownyc

Daemon

08-08-2013, 01:58 PM

You see these complaints? You see them popping up all the time and not going away? These are not signs of a happy playerbase. If you want to see a happy playerbase you can not change the games direction radically while outdating some of the most popular and time taking things in every way relevant and then on top of it do very little to fix the issues your players have, and what you are doing that they ask, you put at the back of the line while you work on more things they think of as less important.

They changed the progression and speed of this game again, kept all of the annoying and horrible drops still, outdated RMEs as well as 90% of the rest of the game, and have received many complaints about it. Many people quit not long after Adoulin came out, more after Delve, and more even recently I am sure. As a whole, the playerbase does not seem happy, and the attempts to fix the issues we have such as RMEs seem so far at the back of the line it will be months before we see any update to fix the issues, after FFXIV comes out. So while you are pointing out he needs to keep the fanbase happy, he seems to be doing a horrible job at it. The best thing, or rather most well received thing to happen since Adoulin's release has been Monstrosity, which is great and fun, but will only last so long, people will eventually grow tired of leveling each type of mob starting at level 1 each time over and over again, fighting in the same areas at the same levels with the same targets. For now, its very enjoyable, but it will only last a while before it becomes boring to most.

As you said, he very likely knows that people will be quitting for FFXIV, and needs to keep us interested, so tell me, why is it they are doing more things which are chasing us away? I assure you, WK Reives and the time I have spent on them are not a great feature that would keep me playing, they are adding to the reasons for me to quit and move to FFXIV. So I can assure you, if his goal is to keep people here & playing this game, if he does not want to be known as the man who brought down the 11 year old FF game, he better fix some of this shit right now, because he has less than 20 days till FFXIV releases, and a ton of unhappy people will be leaving.

And I would have agreed if we didn't see any updates, no improvements, no responses from Matsui himself.

Demon6324236

08-08-2013, 02:11 PM

Seriously?

Do you know how long it takes to produce music?No, but I also know music is not coding, and music has nothing to do with this kind of adjustment as the music is in the game already, nothing need be changed on that, only the drop rates, which should be as simple as changing a few numbers around.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 02:16 PM

No, but I also know music is not coding, and music has nothing to do with this kind of adjustment as the music is in the game already, nothing need be changed on that, only the drop rates, which should be as simple as changing a few numbers around.

Well yeah I know that >.> that doesn't mean it's not time consuming in ones schedule to go over music and figure out where to put it.

I'm thinking of Matsui.

Changing a few numbers? Lol I'm not arging about changing WR. I'm arging that it takes time to implement adjustments. They just changed WR, does it not make sense to give them time to see how the new adjustments are working? Get feedback from everyone before adjusting it again? Not like its an emergency where they should shutdown all the servers for 12 hours.

Demon6324236

08-08-2013, 02:19 PM

And I would have agreed if we didn't see any updates, no improvements, no responses from Matsui himself.The problem is Matsui talks a ton, but seems to hardly get things done that really make us happy. As I said, the only event which I have seen come from this game post-Adoulin is Monstrosity. He has failed to make Reives fun, they have an impossible time creating a balance that allows everyone to be rewarded the same, honestly, before this update it was perfect except for afk people, and Elemental Magic. They fixed Elemental Magic and afk people, but fucked up everything else it seems. Had they made it so performing an action on a mob or the objective automatically qualified you for the final evaluation, and fixed the Elemental Magic issue, it would be fine, instead, they messed with everything, and now it sucks again. Skirmish was to hard to get things for, they keep making it easier, but its pointless now cause of Delve. Delve is great except its boring & repetitive after a while. Wks are unrewarding if your unlucky, which many people are, which makes it not only annoying, but also flat out infuriating when you spend hours working to kill a NM to walk away with a worthless rock. Coalition Assignments are fine, except half of them are boring and to much work, or flat out stupid to do, like walking all the way from Adoulin across 7 different zones just to take supplies to some guy to get a waypoint built so you can get out there more easily.

All in all, I like that Matsui responds, yes, I just wish it did not always seem to be a bunch of talk with few results. If he wants to fix this game, listen to the players, stop making a ton of new things, stop doing improvements without telling us about them when they are really not improvements but rather, problems waiting to happen, and stop just moving forward when there are issues you create behind you along the way. He needs to stop at some point and clean up the mess he made, and he has yet to do it without simply making another mess at the same time it seems.

OmnysValefor

08-08-2013, 02:24 PM

"It sometimes seems like we're only reponding to people who agree with us" is not validating those who disagree with them. That sentence could as easily finish with "but we're not" or "and that's because we are".

Daemon

08-08-2013, 02:38 PM

The problem is Matsui talks a ton, but seems to hardly get things done that really make us happy.

From what I read on a previous post was that Matsui decided not to give anymore yearly roadmaps and just go with the flow at the moment than make promises he cannot keep because things change over time.

He did give us a 2 month roadmap July & August and came through with his word.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34837-Upcoming-Version-Update-Announcement?p=448142#post448142

Up until now we have released year-long roadmaps for FFXI.

We also tried releasing half-year roadmaps as well; however, the further out we write a schedule the less accurate it becomes, and we are only able to let you know about major and limited content.

As a result, many have been disappointed because of schedule changes, it's been difficult to make frequent updates to it, and there are too many cons to having this, so we'll be changing it so we provide something like the current style moving forward where we go over what will be in the version update to come.

We appreciate your understanding.

That's why my POV has changed.

Demon6324236

08-08-2013, 03:06 PM

He did give us a 2 month roadmap July & August and came through with his word.He kept his word, I give him that, but here is the issue, he told us a bunch of things he would do when very little of it all was actually good or well received. I have to ask myself every time something like this comes up, where are Cait Sigh and Atomos? The second expansion of Meeble Burrows? The extra use for Crystal Petrifacts? Haste II? RDM's unique Enfeebles? The new UI? The other hundred things which were promised between now and 3 years ago which never came about, where are all of those things? I understand trying to work on new things but he is doing nothing relevant to old promises or content. Right now he is talking about updating JSE & RMEs, no idea of when, very little details, and these are very big things that to some people such as myself could mean the difference between staying & leaving. At the rate he is going with things, eventually people will lose interest anyways, and simply leave, then even if it does happen they will no longer care anyways. How many things has he done that the players have requested versus how many things has he done which were not requested, but rather were their own ideas they were implementing? If the latter out weighs the former and players are quitting, they are doing it wrong. When your player base starts to leave you and your still doing mostly what you think is best while doing very little that the players are asking for, your only asking to continue to fail.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 03:43 PM

He kept his word, I give him that, but here is the issue, he told us a bunch of things he would do when very little of it all was actually good or well received. I have to ask myself every time something like this comes up, where are Cait Sigh and Atomos? The second expansion of Meeble Burrows? The extra use for Crystal Petrifacts? Haste II? RDM's unique Enfeebles? The new UI? The other hundred things which were promised between now and 3 years ago which never came about, where are all of those things? I understand trying to work on new things but he is doing nothing relevant to old promises or content. Right now he is talking about updating JSE & RMEs, no idea of when, very little details, and these are very big things that to some people such as myself could mean the difference between staying & leaving. At the rate he is going with things, eventually people will lose interest anyways, and simply leave, then even if it does happen they will no longer care anyways. How many things has he done that the players have requested versus how many things has he done which were not requested, but rather were their own ideas they were implementing? If the latter out weighs the former and players are quitting, they are doing it wrong. When your player base starts to leave you and your still doing mostly what you think is best while doing very little that the players are asking for, your only asking to continue to fail.

And don't you think it's common sense that if he released a new expansion where things didn't work out as planned to fix that first because that's more important especially when a good portion of the community threatened to rage quit after The REM drama? Previous content was made irrelevant? Skirmish killed because people were skipping his Tier plan?

Seriously DJ I would love to see him fix RDM just as bad as you but to me SoA is a much bigger issue because everyone complained it was lacking. Barely any quests other than go here. Thank you go there. Yes now do this and come back. The end.

He apologized, admitted he wasn't doing things right and even stated he was going to work harder. Gave us a 2 month road map and came through with his word.

Rather than seeing the improvements, is it better to hold a grudge?

Ever since Adoulin was released, I feel like the player base is decreasing with every update, and it seems like this is going to continue.

If you really want to proceed with content levels and items levels, I really think you should hurry and address inventory issues and improve the job disparity due to item levels.

[Matsui] If it seems that way, it's just my inadequacy and I will do my best to work harder on this.

Had they not adjusted Colonization Rieves making it easier, colonization rate to last longer, reduce Bayld from 100k to buy ki, I wonder how many people would you find to even do Wildskeeper Reives? Would we not be in a worse state than now?

Demon6324236

08-08-2013, 04:31 PM

And don't you think it's common sense that if he released a new expansion where things didn't work out as planned to fix that first because that's more important especially when a good portion of the community threatened to rage quit after The REM drama? Previous content was made irrelevant? Skirmish killed because people were skipping his Tier plan?I think its common sense to do something to make the playerbase happy right after you piss them off so they don't all leave you. The RME thing pissed a lot of people off, rather than fix the issue immediately and make everyone happy, it has been I believe 3 months now and yet no word on an actual release date or much of any details at all except them saying it will happen, some day, sometime. I also think doing what you said you would do, or the company as an entity said it would do before, should be done first, or at least should be worked on at the same time. Simply making promises or statements then acting as though they never happened in the first place does nothing more than make your players lose faith in your word, and question every statement or promise you make. Really with them its the boy who cried wolf, they keep crying that RMEs will be updated, RMEs will be updated, but where are they?

Seriously DJ I would love to see him fix RDM just as bad as you but to me SoA is a much bigger issue because everyone complained it was lacking. Barely any quests other than go here. Thank you go there. Yes now do this and come back. The end.The point was not about RDM it was about the fact he says things which never happen, never finished what was previously promised. There are many other things, DRK Fast Cast for instance, which never happened, never have happened, and seem to never be happening. Monstrosity is actually about a year late, or at least 6 months or so late if I am not mistaken from the old plans. While I understand he can not get everything done exactly when they said, I have to say I am fairly fuckin disappointed that with the money we pay them as a whole they could not get some of this content out before half a year or more had passed.

He apologized, admitted he wasn't doing things right and even stated he was going to work harder. Gave us a 2 month road map and came through with his word.Yes he did, part of the issue is he said he wasn't doing things right, part of that is he is doing things in the wrong order, and at the same time, made a roadmap which showed he wanted to work on things in the wrong order still, and went ahead and did it. I am happy he kept his word, I am not happy he did not do it better, if he wants to show he knows he is doing things in a way we rather him not, he needs to show it by changing how he is doing them, that, is something he has not done.

Rather than seeing the improvements, is it better to hold a grudge?Its nothing about a grudge, its about him failing to move the game forward. He is making people leave, he is making the game more annoying, giving less reason to play by outdating the majority of things not long after their release, making the game transform into something it was not. I hold no grudge, but I hate what he is doing, my only way to tell them that, is to voice it, as I do here, every single day I can. The problem this thread was made to address is one of my larges issues by far, and has not been addressed by even a single rep a single time, that disappoints me greatly, and shows how much they try to respond to feedback.

Had they not adjusted Colonization Rieves making it easier, colonization rate to last longer, reduce Bayld from 100k to buy ki, I wonder how many people would you find to even do Wildskeeper Reives? Would we not be in a worse state than now?Did it help? Yes, does it still suck? Yes.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 04:46 PM

I dunno man I thought even you said they only have a small team after the majority went over to 14.

Are you reading his responses?

It seems he is trying to address issues.
No matter how much adjustments they do, I just don't see any DEV team having the ability to make huge adjustments bigger than what they have been doing in such a short time. It's not easy balancing a game this big stuck with ps2 limits.

PS2 [13 years old technology]
Memory 32 MB of Direct RAMBUS or RDRAM 4 MB eDRAM

VS.

iPhone 5 [Today's technology]
System memory:
1016 MB RAM

http://m.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/nvidia-next-gen-phones-will-outperform-ps3-xbox-360-1141979

Lol...

Thing about balance. The bigger the adjustment, the bigger the effects are, not just good but also bad effects.

Inventory Issues

We are also looking into Gobbiebags, but as there are risks that these will cause other inconveniences such, as items not displaying right away when logging in or changing areas, we would like to closely investigate methods that have low risk and have a high possibility of realizing (including methods other than Gobbiebags).

Paladin

We'd like to avoid the consequences of nerfing Ochain, and have selected to add stats to shields we introduce here on out so they can gradually get closer to the stats of Ochain. If anything is unclear with these intentions, please let me know.

Summoner

Equipment that has "Avatar Lv. ***" has accuracy and other stats built into it.
We will be adding Avatar Lv. 114 and higher equipment in the future.

Ninja

Similar to the adjustments of the damage values for physical blue magic spells, this adjustment will only be applied to ninja when it is your main job.

Redmage Bluemage Darkknight

I believe it looked as if red mage was left out of the equation with the question I answered yesterday that was phrased "How will you be enhancing magical accuracy for blue mage, dark knight, and ninja?"

Sorry about that.

The plan is not limited to only these jobs and we will be boosting magical accuracy based on the "combat skill +" added to weapons in general.

Looks to me he has a lot on his plate. Can only do so much per update I mean, small team.

Game programming
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_(game_design)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_game_difficulty_balancing

Stuff I went over during a Game programming course:
Anything in 3D is going to require a good working understanding of mathematics. 2D will too if you want physics or dynamic environments.

These days, a typical commercial game might take 100,000 lines of C++ code written by a team of 3 programmers over a period of 18 months with a budget of a million dollars.

Surely this games has more than 100,000 lines of coding to dig through and adjust...

Knowledge requirements:

Programming
Assembly Level Programming
Computer Architecture
Software Engineering
Computer Graphics
Data Structures
Algorithms
Communication Networks
AI and Expert Systems
Human Factors
Mathematics
Physics

Lol... After I saw what was required when taking courses in computer programming I lost interest in learning Game Programming.

Point is its not easy.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 05:39 PM

If that doesn't change your point of view then I dunno..

Demon6324236

08-08-2013, 05:49 PM

It doesn't, but I grow tired of this argument which is going no where. The entire argument that has gone on for pages upon pages is all very far stretched from the original topic. The original topic of which I most definitely agree, WKs need fixed to be rewarding so that people are not spending an extreme amount of time for an extremely lackluster reward.

Daemon

08-08-2013, 05:51 PM

FrankReynolds

08-08-2013, 07:21 PM

As the manager of numerous IT projects including development of various software applications, I can tell you this much. This level of communication and or usage of end user input would not bode well for my career.

There's a million different ways they could remedy this. I already named my favorite, which is adding / increasing the rewards in the form of new currencies like bayld / plasm. They could also make these drop craft items for equivalent gear, or make it possible to sell the gear so that it is worth repeating or make it possible to trade the gear to an npc in some exchange system IE. trade 5 bullets for 1 weapon etc. etc.

Releasing / leaving it like this is silly because you just know that if you don't get all the gear in the first few week, the odds increase dramatically that they will either make it super easy to get right after you finish busting ass to obtain it, or they will release something that renders it obsolete right after you obtain it.

It was annoying, but expected when they released gear that was 2% better than whatever piece you had worked a year on, but it still felt worth it cuz it was only 2% worse and it was probably gonna take a long time to get the next piece anyways, so it wasn't like the piece wouldn't see some use. Now they release a piece that's 50%-100% better every month or two, so if you don't get the first drop right off the bat, you may as well wait for the next one to come out.

Daemon

08-09-2013, 01:38 AM

Daemon

08-09-2013, 04:14 AM

Have an idea ill post as a new thread

Thorbean

08-09-2013, 04:35 AM

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu271/veitchy1986/index_zps3568878b.jpg

Daemon

08-09-2013, 05:37 AM

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu271/veitchy1986/index_zps3568878b.jpg

Thanks for putting me on stage. Although the lighting must be from party city. You don't have photoshop?

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL2135/12119137/22241745/368720116.jpg
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg584/SustainedEgo/dont-feed-the-troll.jpg

Nerathun

08-10-2013, 12:04 AM

After an 1h30 fight against Hurkan, got 25k Bayld from overall evaluation, 2250 Bayld as a reward at end with a pretty common Velkk Mask and ... nothing.

Yes, I probably got the grip or the axe and since I had them both already, nothing drop I know. For the worst part, those two item are useless to me and yes I already did the quest and took the Great Axe (seems I shouldn't have despite loving it).

Daemon

08-10-2013, 01:18 AM

Honestly I could care less if you want to make fun of me. I've written 2 guides, posted several ideas to the DEV team in hopes of helping them see our concerns just as the rest of the people who come here to complain, rant, and still complain after the Devs heard you, made adjustments to make it better than before the adjustment but still not good enough.

Difference is, I've been trying to present ideas, not show how ungrateful I am even though I may not think I'm satisfied by the new change, at least now I know to be patient and give them a chance. Yes I use to rush and rant before but now I'm seeing they are doing a better job which is why I was defending my opinions and tried to tell all of you what I was seeing, and why i think we should give them a chance.

I Interact with others and all I see is people like you when you trash another person which has nothing to do with the topic discussions. Which I find immature and pathetic unless you are a child. Because a reasonable adult wouldn't act like this.

What are you doing to help others other than trash people? You can hate me all you want but I have reasons to be on the forums just as you.

At least my reasons are to help others, help the Devs, and have some decency to be respectful in the process.

Yes I will debate with those asking for something unreasonable like "We deserve the best rare drop for spending 10 hours or 10 fights because we think it's unfair" I'd agree if it was a mediocre item but that's not the case.

If your idea of FFXI is to have it easy for you, my reasons for playing this game is the challenge, earn my items so I can actually enjoy what I've earned rather than feel like I wasted time putting endless hours for items people can get easily.

What's the point of having rares to begin with? Which is what I've been saying this entire time.

And because you don't agree with me, you find the need to take the extra step to put me under a spotlight and trash me.

Yes I have to proof read and have help correcting my post because my English is not very good. I'm Korean that's why.

Which is why you should know that people from different cultures will have differences and no one will think the same as you.

OmnysValefor

08-10-2013, 03:30 AM

Daemon

08-10-2013, 03:35 AM

Please, rare has just been a stamp in this game for years simply meaning that you could only hold one.

The grip is "rare" and yet people go 6/10 on it.

Every time we kill Tojil, he drops 2 swords or 2 oats, and those are rare too.

Edit: Pixie Earring is rare, but i'm 8/8 on that so far =p

But rare doesn't mean all of them are on the same level as each other.

Why else Fajun boots drop easier than Coruscanti? You give the example of 6/10. That's nothing compared to 1/30, 1/200, 1/600, or 1/2,000+. Difference is you are fighting a way harder boss.

Are these items mediocre compared to defending ring? Yet the cost to buy a King Behemoth pop, party requirement to hunt for defending ring. To me this is harder than attempting to fight something that drops better items with multiple chances of getting something plus earn a decent amount of Bayld back to play it again.

Wish KN give half the Gil back it cost to pop him.

OmnysValefor

08-10-2013, 03:39 AM

Daemon

08-10-2013, 03:41 AM

That was exactly my point. Rare means nothing. Difficulty of the boss doesn't matter, it's how hard SE thinks we should work for drops.

When you're depending on the entire server to come together, play properly, on decently geared jobs, it's a pretty bad plan.

So you are saying earning an item like Tamaxchi should be easier than it already is? I'd rather spend my time earning this than a Mythic.

I'd rather have the ability to get people and play the boss than wait an entire week standing on 1 map waiting for it to pop and then worry about losing claim from someone else.

I mean I hated the fact that only 18 people could fight over 1 drop from HNM when LS brought additional parties to swap dead people and still kill each other over who deserves the drop.

And yeah hundreds of people did show up to watch. What else could they do? Someone else already claimed it.

I guess I'm the only person who sees and appreciates this.

I mean I thought they did make it better than before.

If I was a DEV I can't see any better way to implement HNM then how they did now. When SE made WoE easier, conflict was, flux always limited to 36 people but guess what happened? People destroyed flux in less than 15 minutes making all items worthless.

And now barely anyone play after getting everything the wanted.

OmnysValefor

08-10-2013, 03:53 AM

You are completely missing the point.

It is not about the personal contribution towards victory. You need many many people to play properly, on the right jobs, and those jobs need to be well-geared.

Unlike old endgame, you have no control over most those people. If someone wants to come as perle warrior, you can't stop them. I like that anyone can enter, but the event requires people to come on jobs suited to the task.

Again, in a good fight, I don't even cap bayld. I'd rather come on war, drk, or whm, but the best job I have to the task is PLD.

I don't know how else to explain it, but if those 3 things don't come together, it's going to get nasty, and any Hurkan or Tree that doesn't have a good Aegis or a competent RUN, along with tons of summoners and ranged jobs is going to be a long long fight. 6 hours later, people needing to do other things go hide in a corner and pray that they don't die.

Daemon

08-10-2013, 03:55 AM

You need many many people to play properly, on the right jobs, and those jobs need to be well-geared.

You answered what I've been arguing about. There's many people complaining about events like these based on "I dedicated 27 hours for Yumcax" and not looking at it from this point of view.

And then complain Devs need to make it easier. To me sounds like "I don't want to take up the challenge, I'm not patient enough to find the right people or wait for others to be properly geared to do this event, I don't have time to fail and rethink my strategy and because these people were not well prepared wasted my time, I blame you DEVs for making it this way."

When I'm saying don't blame the Devs, they are trying to make it better. SoA is new, wait til people actually get better gear and upgrade those Delve items to Rank 15 and wait for the people to catch up. Look at the differences now than back in the old days HNM existed?

We did Delve with REM when it first released, earned 3-5k plasm per run. Now we earn 9k after people caught up and became well geared.

Which is why I said not everyone is on the same page as you as in not everybody is end game with the best gear ready to be on your level.

Had WR been only limited to 18 people like most other events, sure there is more control but SE made it so anyone can join. And well people in Perle armor showing up and not being able to participate only tells me they need to go back and work on their gear because this is End Game. Not some common event for every single person not ready.

And people who can't do something refuse to figure out why they can't do it other than group up the majority of people who feel the same way and make it a living hell for the DEV team. When I'm seeing that it's NOT IMPOSSIBLE." They already did adjust it to make it easier than it was before based on complaints. If I already see several people in town this early running around with WR equipment, can't imagine 2-3 months from now. Which would only mean making it easier will make the event die faster.

Like I said you can't be a one man show. It's not about 1 person making a massive difference. It's about everyone making a difference as a team.

Then people like me see people begging for these events to be adjusted easier makes me feel like "Please nerf the challenge because we can't do it and refuse to figure out why," while I sit and think I wish the event was more challenging. And then people say I'm the one who is just a casual player noob and my opinion doesn't matter.

detlef

08-10-2013, 04:41 AM

And then complain Devs need to make it easier. To me sounds like "I don't want to take up the challenge, I'm not patient enough to find the right people or wait for others to be properly geared to do this event, I don't have time to fail and rethink my strategy and because these people were not well prepared wasted my time, I blame you DEVs for making it this way."Exactly. I am not patient enough to find the right people. This is a server wide event, not an alliance of people that can be led. I can't remove people from the group for being terrible or detrimental. You even agree with this.

When I'm saying don't blame the Devs, they are trying to make it better. SoA is new, wait til people actually get better gear and upgrade those Delve items to Rank 15 and wait for the people to catch up.

We did Delve with REM when it first released, earned 3-5k plasm per run. Now we earn 9k after people caught up and became well geared.

Which is why I said not everyone is on the same page as you as in not everybody is end game with the best gear ready to be on your level.Gear is important, but people coming on the right jobs is 90% more important. If you don't have the CORs or SMNs, the fight will take forever.

Had WR been only limited to 18 people like most other events, sure there is more control but SE made it so anyone can join. And well people in Perle armor showing up and not being able to participate only tells me they need to go back and work on their gear because this is End Game. Not some common event for every single person not ready.You have no control over those people. I can't tell that person to work on his gear.

And people who can't do something refuse to figure out why they can't do it other than group up the majority of people who feel the same way and make it a living hell for the DEV team. When I'm seeing that it's NOT IMPOSSIBLE." If I already see several people in town this early running around with WR equipment, can't imagine 2-3 months from now.Uh. Some people get lucky with drops. You put 100 people in a battlefield, somebody will get something nice. Congratulations for locating those people. Over time, more people will luck into a piece of equipment they can equip in town for you to check.

Like I said you can't be a one man show. It's not about 1 person making a massive difference. It's about everyone making a difference as a team.

Then people like me see people begging for these events to be adjusted easier makes me feel like "Please nerf the challenge because we can't do it and refuse to figure out why," while I sit and think I wish the event was more challenging. And then people say I'm the one who is just a casual player noob and my opinion doesn't matter.Is it a challenge? Or is it just an annoying and painful mess of an event with terrible item distribution mechanics?

Daemon

08-10-2013, 04:53 AM

Exactly. I am not patient enough to find the right people. This is a server wide event, not an alliance of people that can be led. I can't remove people from the group for being terrible or detrimental. You even agree with this.

Gear is important, but people coming on the right jobs is 90% more important. If you don't have the CORs or SMNs, the fight will take forever.

You have no control over those people. I can't tell that person to work on his gear.

Uh. Some people get lucky with drops. You put 100 people in a battlefield, somebody will get something nice. Congratulations for locating those people. Over time, more people will luck into a piece of equipment they can equip in town for you to check.

Is it a challenge? Or is it just an annoying and painful mess of an event with terrible item distribution mechanics?

And you only want to see the negative and respond to the bad and never acknowledge the good side of things. No matter what the Devs do you need to understand creating a video game with extreme limits doesn't just have one side of it.

Make it easier, then people get everything and the events become dead. Make it harder people get frustrated and quit.

Balance is not easy. For something as big as this. Something you do learn in game programming.

Making the Devs life harder is not going to get what you want faster. Especially if they just adjusted WR. I'm just saying lets be patient.

Otherwise if they did follow our every complaint WR would have to adjusted every day for the rest of FFXI existing life.

It's like playing tug a war with a rope. Only at this point little changes could have big effects and that's why Devs have to becareful. Big changes can have crashing effects. If this was a game between 2 players, easy. But this about thousands of players on every server. The more people the greater effect.

Which is why I understand Devs not making big changes we always expect.

And if this doesn't tell you the man hears you, acknowledges that he needs to work harder and that he is struggling. Then you are being inconsiderate and ungrateful from my POV.

Ever since Adoulin was released, I feel like the player base is decreasing with every update, and it seems like this is going to continue.

Reply from Matsui.

If it seems that way, it's just my inadequacy and I will do my best to work harder on this.

There are times when I get a bit hung up thinking about how to respond to dissenting opinions and criticism, but I will do my best to grasp the real meaning and make the appropriate response.

As a result of this there are times when I do not make direct replies to feedback, and as I am not always quoting text it may seem that your feedback is being ignored. Also, there are cases it might feel this way when you don't receive an answer to certain things you were expecting and the subject continues to shift.

The way everyone thinks is different, and while a universally accepted answer is not very realistic, I will continue to do my best to ensure that I connect my responses to our position and conclusions that can be easily understood.

detlef

08-10-2013, 05:16 AM

And you only want to see the negative and respond to the bad and never acknowledge the good side of things. No matter what the Devs do you need to understand creating a video game with extreme limits doesn't just have one side of it.

Make it easier, then people get everything and the events become dead. Make it harder people get frustrated and quit.This is a forum for feedback, you see. It is our only connection with the devs. Okay, so we know that you have to balance between players getting items too quickly and the longevity of the event right? Now, with that in mind, don’t you think that we players have every right to say that things are messed up right now? Think about what the real, legitimate gripes are. Think about how Achuka, Tchakka, and Colkhab are, and how the Yumcax and Hurkan differ. I’ll make a list for you:

Original Naakuals
-Each NM has 4-5 drops, each of which had an approximately equal drop rate.
-Large battlefield that allowed room for recovery as well as a fairly safe fighting area.

New Naakuals
-Each NM has 6 drops, which do not have equal drop rates. 2 of the 6 are much more likely to load.
-Small battlefield that does not allow room for recovery without very real possibility of MPK.

Peoples’ main complaint is that you’re likely to get the grip and bullet from Hurkan or the neck and cape from Yumcax over and over. That is a legitimate complaint, especially when you compare it to the original Naakual drop system, which wasn’t skewed toward the crappy drops.

Balance is not easy. For something as big as this. Something you do learn in game programming.

Making the Devs life harder is not going to get what you want faster. Especially if they just adjusted WR. I'm just saying lets be patient.

Otherwise if they did follow our every complaint WR would have to adjusted every day for the rest of FFXI existing life.If we do not speak up, then the likelihood of things being changed is decreased. As I have said, the event has a finite lifespan. Have you ever noticed how applause dies down? At first, a few people stop clapping, but as the remaining people notice this, the applause decays quite rapidly. The same thing happens with large scale content.

Knowing that it is going to die, I am an advocate of giving the players what they want before this happens. Otherwise, if the event dies and the vast majority of players haven’t gotten what they were after, was the event really successful? I say no.

Daemon

08-10-2013, 05:25 AM

This is a forum for feedback, you see. It is our only connection with the devs. Okay, so we know that you have to balance between players getting items too quickly and the longevity of the event right? Now, with that in mind, don’t you think that we players have every right to say that things are messed up right now? Think about what the real, legitimate gripes are. Think about how Achuka, Tchakka, and Colkhab are, and how the Yumcax and Hurkan differ. I’ll make a list for you:

Original Naakuals
-Each NM has 4-5 drops, each of which had an approximately equal drop rate.
-Large battlefield that allowed room for recovery as well as a fairly safe fighting area.

New Naakuals
-Each NM has 6 drops, which do not have equal drop rates. 2 of the 6 are much more likely to load.
-Small battlefield that does not allow room for recovery without very real possibility of MPK.

Peoples’ main complaint is that you’re likely to get the grip and bullet from Hurkan or the neck and cape from Yumcax over and over. That is a legitimate complaint, especially when you compare it to the original Naakual drop system, which wasn’t skewed toward the crappy drops.

If we do not speak up, then the likelihood of things being changed is decreased. As I have said, the event has a finite lifespan. Have you ever noticed how applause dies down? At first, a few people stop clapping, but as the remaining people notice this, the applause decays quite rapidly. The same thing happens with large scale content.

Knowing that it is going to die, I am an advocate of giving the players what they want before this happens. Otherwise, if the event dies and the vast majority of players haven’t gotten what they were after, was the event really successful? I say no.

Ok but speak up from having your facts straight. You never once admitted the direction Matsui has been trying hard to fix and make better with improvements such as the ones I stated already.

It's better than waiting 1 entire week parked on the same map 24/7 and then worry someone else will claim boss. Heck even waiting for your entire team to show up before you lose claim because you couldn't even hold the boss til they showed up and because other teams got there before yours did. Only to feel rage that you wasted 1 week of your life waiting staring at the sand.

(Yeah I was that guy who waited the full week real time, told HNMLS the moment it popped because they promised to let me lot only to be screwed and say sorry we lied to you now go run off and cry.)

It's better than spending Gil on pop item like King Behemoth when you also gain a decent amount of Bayld back.

It's better than everyone has a chance to get a rare than kill each over competing who gets to lot in an 18 man alliance. "THAT'S IF ANYTHING DROPPED AT ALL" only to wait another week real time for the chance of losing claim again.

Its better after the new update reducing the cost of purchasing Ki 50/75k or less than 100k. And still you can get it reduced further by having rank.

It's better that reives are now easier than before allowing everyone to also earn Bayld faster and kill reives blocking the way to WR.

It's better that they adjusted Colonization rate to last longer than not being able to use waypoints because no one raised the rates.

It's easier that we can cap colonization rate faster than before.

Are you ignoring these changes? These differences?

Don't enter the event with half the server not prepared yet because they don't want to waste their time earning the proper gear or had the time to prepare themselves because the event is new and fresh expecting to get the best and didnt and then complain it needs to be easier in such a short time since the content was released because that only tells me you only want to give up and not even consider anything other than "I want my items now, not later because its all about me myself and I."

That means this event was definitely not made for you.

Challenge doesn't only mean boss fight. The challenge means everything else as in finding the right people, the right jobs, the right strategy.

If people don't have the Bayld to buy Kis then part of the challenge is also time and waiting for people who are ready.

I don't care if it takes 10 hours. 10 hours playing a boss means i spent 10 hours with you! 10 hours of learning how you play with me as a team! To me my main focus is not about the drop. Yeah it sucks if you don't get anything.

To me it's also about the fun of playing with others, showing my skills and how hard I worked practicing them. Because you barely get to show what you're made of. If I didn't get a drop? So what others most likely didn't either so I'm not the only person.

Unless that has absolutely no value then why are you playing an MMORPG to begin with? Why people don't help each other out because too many people don't care about anything else other than "I didn't get my item."

You sound so fixated on just the drop from the event and nothing else. You claim you play longer than me but it sure doesn't tell me that.

He gave us the content and all we do is complain and complain and don't even give him the chance to adjust it throughout time because no one is ever satisfied.

Had he NOT adjusted anything at all then I can totally agree with you 100% but to adjust it and make it easier and then complain again is why I'm debating with all of you.

Again I truly feel sorry for Matsui.

Present your idea yeah, complain and put the man down by insults, rants, and how disgusted you are is another.

To me he did change things for the better. Is it perfect? No. But it's better than we had it before. And to give us that is enough for me to appreciate what we have now.

Daemon

08-10-2013, 06:35 AM

Btw OP, I never disagreed with your current concerns. I started off only commenting that I didn't agree making rare drop a guarantee all because it takes too long.

But also, Matsui already addressed several of our complaints with WR not too long ago. And that I believe we should give it some time because he needs to see how these changes make a difference before deciding to further adjust things. That's the real thing about video games effecting a massive amount of people. You can't just make a drastic adjustment like WoE which was a good example as to how WR would have turned out if they did make it that easy. A quick rush to get the items only for everyone to stop playing the event all together and to me that would suck.

OmnysValefor

08-10-2013, 06:36 AM

Daemon

08-10-2013, 06:42 AM

Obviously you feel very strongly about your faith in Matsui but when you're trying to speak favorly, in any light, of 10 hour fights, you show that you're not going to be swayed.

You're not debating, you're cheerleading.

Yeah because I use to spam WoE every single day and now I can barely find anyone interested to go. I'm sure you can understand why I've been so defensive.

People got what they needed and now the event is barely living. You may do event for the items. I did it for fun, friends, and items was only the extra bonus.

Had Matsui not told us about changing his take on roadmap and lay out 2 months of content, then come through on his word and communicate with us, then my faith would not even be there however I did make a topic that stated.

"Show us your word through updates and stop telling us you will do something and give us false hope. That will tell us you are listening."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/35272-Losing-Faith-in-you-DEV-TEAM.

Since he kept his word I believe in him now than I did a few months back and I'm sure he does read our comments.

Seriously I've been paying attention to his actions and his responses.

OmnysValefor

08-10-2013, 06:52 AM

Daemon

08-10-2013, 06:58 AM

There are two methods to try to keep people coming--

Reward them so that they want to keep coming or make an event which they feel like they have to endure.

Aside from abyssea, SE's preferred method has remained the same for a long time.

It's funny, that Delve, the harder event, has a better reward structure. Delve requires coordination and proper gear (the new m.acc clubs are some people's entire magic.acc kits now >.>), and while the new weapons have made lol of this delve, they'll be baseline for new delve, or just above it. That 200~ skill on all those weapons isn't going to make lols of new Delve.

Naakual on the other hand, you can throw bodies at it til it dies... It will take a very very very long time doing that, but it will work, unless a wild maintenance should appear. The rewards are as appealing but the design is deliberately awful.

SE knows that grip is awful. The only one who might have interest in that grip is a RUN tank, because we can't swap offhand slot for WS making that grip largely unappealing. It's no accident that it's at the top of the loot table.

True but look at it from this point of view. I'm sure Delve was in the works way before WR. He had to release SoA to give people some hope that they are not forgetting us.

Nakuul is suppose to be further out in the expansion but I'm sure he didn't intent people skipping the Tier design of his overall vision which lead to skipping skirmish etc.

The thing we all said is that maybe he didn't know his fanbase and our capabilities that well. And now it seems he has been trying hard to repair that failure.

Which is why I've been trying hard to let you people know what I'm seeing. Last 2 updates has shown a reasonable amount of effort to say "Hey I know I screwed up, but rather giving up in failure, I'm working on it, it's not easy and I will do my best."

OmnysValefor

08-10-2013, 07:01 AM

Daemon

08-10-2013, 07:02 AM

Capabilities, nothin'.

They forgot why they introduced "double weakness". If it's at all possible, the most earnest 'tards among us will zombie something till it dies. Combine that mentality with NMs where waypoints were placed on top of them and it wasn't even zombie'ing but homepoint zerging.

It clearly evidenced that they don't know their playerbase at all.

Matsui implemented that? He did give us Arise though. It's better than nothing. Even makes WHM more valuable.

May not be the improvement everyone wanted but the fact is, it's an improvement.

Although I wish they'd reduce the 3 min recast because the spell itself cost 300 MP. Not like WHM have all the MP in the world to spam the spell... >.>

Demon6324236

08-10-2013, 08:35 AM

Matsui implemented that?No, but simply because you do not make parts of the game does not mean you can ignore the reasons for previous adjustments to things, a MMO is a living game, things change all of the time, someone in charge needs to know what has happened in the past and understand why. So even if he did not make things like Double Weakness, he should understand why it was done in the first place. Which is what I assume you are asking if he implemented.

He did give us Arise though.Arise is from Legion & Provenance, both of which came out before Matsui was in charge, so he did not give us this any more than he gave us Abyssea, Legion, VW, or anything else before he was in charge.

Daemon

08-10-2013, 09:57 AM

No, but simply because you do not make parts of the game does not mean you can ignore the reasons for previous adjustments to things, a MMO is a living game, things change all of the time, someone in charge needs to know what has happened in the past and understand why. So even if he did not make things like Double Weakness, he should understand why it was done in the first place. Which is what I assume you are asking if he implemented.

Arise is from Legion & Provenance, both of which came out before Matsui was in charge, so he did not give us this any more than he gave us Abyssea, Legion, VW, or anything else before he was in charge.

Ok but do still think that's more important than the bigger issues he's been working hard to fix?

I see SoA expansion as a very big project. Not like adding 1 or 2 maps and a couple of features.

I'm pretty sure he has a lot of pressure especially with REM disaster even from the JP community trying to make it work smoothly. Even I thought SE released SoA too soon without proper care and thought.

Implementing 2 jobs and fixing them because I remember how I hated Geo before enhancing the power of Geo spells, reduce Spellcasting, implemented Handbell and Geomancy (Although I didn't agree making it fall under the rest of magic Combat skill Merits)

Point is, I see them doing something about it rather than ignoring everyone who complained. He may not be answering "EVERYTHING" but its clear to me he isn't just sitting in the studio sipping coffee hanging out with the DEV team reading comments all day and ignoring them.

Demon6324236

08-10-2013, 11:03 AM

Ok but do still think that's more important than the bigger issues he's been working hard to fix?That depends on what part of it you mean. I think its very important to know where you are coming from in order to figure out where you are going, I think it is more important to figure out what he is building on and the people who will be playing what he builds on it, rather than to simply build more things.

I see SoA expansion as a very big project. Not like adding 1 or 2 maps and a couple of features.As do I, but if you are working on such a project is it not easier to fix issues you create as you go than to simply leave the issues there and come back to fix them later? Especially in the case of how this game is going right now, where by the time it is fixed the amount of people who care will be minimal, and the capacity to do it at all will be very much diminished?

I'm pretty sure he has a lot of pressure especially with REM disaster even from the JP community trying to make it work smoothly. Even I thought SE released SoA too soon without proper care and thought.It was, that I think everyone can agree on.

Implementing 2 jobs and fixing them because I remember how I hated Geo before enhancing the power of Geo spells, reduce Spellcasting, implemented Handbell and Geomancy (Although I didn't agree making it fall under the rest of magic Combat skill Merits)No job will be released perfect, but I do think they cleaned up the mess fairly quick on that part actually.

Point is, I see them doing something about it rather than ignoring everyone who complained. He may not be answering "EVERYTHING" but its clear to me he isn't just sitting in the studio sipping coffee hanging out with the DEV team reading comments all day and ignoring them.I do not question, nor have I ever questioned the fact he is doing something, what I do question is, is he doing the right things? We all know he is working on this game, doing a bunch of different things all over the place, but the problem is that many of us are unhappy with the order he is taking and the things he is putting first. For instance, I am sure there are a hoard of people who would rather see RMEs updated rather than a Yorcia Skirmish, or people who would rather see Cait Sith, Atomos, and other job adjustments which have long since been forgotten rather than another side event like Monstrosity. I am not saying everyone feels that way, I myself enjoy Monstrosity quite a bit, but in the end I do not think anyone truly questions if he is doing anything, but rather, is he doing the right things? Personally, the only things that have had a positive effect on me since Adoulin came out were Delve, because I felt it was in a way like VW should have been in terms of rewards, and Monstrosity. Besides those, I can not say anything else has been truly fun and exciting to me, I can not say anything else has had a truly positive effect on the game in my opinion so far as actual content goes. There are some fixes like the Elemental Magic change that were nice, but they were something I expected long ago, and were not content, but rather, a gameplay change that was log overdue.

So please do not think I believe that Matsui is just sitting around doing nothing while the game burns and the community screams in agony. I think he is hard at work, but he is working on questionable things, things which could be put off to prioritize others that the community is asking, pestering, and even begging him to do. Simply moving forward as he sees fit has not seemed to work so far, and if he continues with that plan it will only serve to push more people away, the right things to do now is to try listening to the community and see how that goes, do as we more urgently, if it fails too, then make a new plan, but what he is doing right now is not keeping people or getting people back, its pushing more away.

Daemon

08-10-2013, 11:11 AM

That depends on what part of it you mean. I think its very important to know where you are coming from in order to figure out where you are going, I think it is more important to figure out what he is building on and the people etc...

Well when you have to dig through millions of lines of computer code in programming like the old content? Especially when various people wrote the coding may incorporate different techniques than others. You are piled with so many issues, its not easy to say we are going to do this and then make it happen right away.

The thing is balance is not easy. I really can't explain it to you easily either and no information is online to show you what I mean.

Basic Game Programming
Video games often allow players to influence their balance by offering a choice of "difficulty levels".[5] These affect how challenging the game is to play.

In addition to altering the game's rules, difficulty levels can be used to alter what content is presented to the player. This usually takes the form of adding or removing challenging location or events, but some games also change their narrative to reward players who play them on higher difficulty levels (Max Payne 2) or end early as punishment for playing on easy (Castlevania).

Difficulty selection is not always presented bluntly, particularly in competitive games where all players are affected equally and the standard "easy/hard" terminology no longer applies. Sometimes veiled language is used (Mario Kart offers "CC select"), while at other times there may be an array of granular settings instead of an overarching difficulty option.

An alternative approach to difficulty levels is catering to players of all abilities at the same time, a technique that has been called "subjective difficulty".[6] This requires a game to provide multiple solutions or routes, each offering challenges appropriate to players of different skill levels (Super Mario Galaxy, Sonic Generations).

Now take FFXI and multiply the difference compared to this and its frustrating including being limited to PS2 limits.

He wants to correct so many things but barely has much to work with. To tell him "Do it this way might be easy to say and could be done if the game was build on today's technology.

I took a course in Video Game Programming in Audio Engineering school and we did learn about issues like I'm telling you.

Demon6324236

08-10-2013, 11:20 AM

Daemon

08-10-2013, 11:25 AM

The majority of people are not asking him to go back and fix old things, but rather, new things, things which are fresh & should be easily accessed as they were recently implemented, those are the largest complaints. The majority of older ones which are complained about are drop rates, which should not be a large issue either, its not as though people are asking them to go back & completely redesign the workings of a zone, remake a battle system, or any other very large undertaking. We are asking for changes to drop rates for the most part so far as I know, as well as updating some weapons which were outdated, I fail to understand how this would take so much work & be so difficult, no matter how it is explained.

But as I said, I know he works on things, just not what I think to be the right things, and as you have pointed out in the past, it is harder to make new content than work on old because it involves many more things, such as music, graphics, and so on, where as changing drop rates or adding extra tiers to RMEs would literally be a matter of changing some numbers and possibly making a new quest/item here and there with existing things.

Yeah I agree but then again our opinion is only 2 out of thousands of issues others are giving feedback on which is clear he is working on SoA and cannot linger all his time on one thing especially when they already did make adjustment to this concern which was piled up on top of the other complaints and issues.

At least I think he needs to see how the new adjustment is played out first before he can come to a new conclusion that it needs more work on which is why I said give the man room to breathe, he has too much on his plate right now. At least he is proving now that he is seriously trying to do better. And sometimes its best to give that person room to show us more and be patient.

He couldn't deliver Skirmish this August update should tell you guys how much work he has been busy with. And he even admitted he is sorry but he needs more time.

Hello, Matsui here. I apologize we weren’t able to introduce the new skirmishes at the same time as this version update. While you all enjoy the content added with this version update, we will be working to deliver the additional version update, so please hang in there just a little while longer.

Btw I'm not saying don't give your feedback. I just think an issue that has been shown attention already not too long ago should give him more time and the rest of the server more time to figure out if these complaints will be the same later. I think it's too early to say omg fix it again!

Who knows when more and more people start getting more WR gear, it might turn out to be like Delve.

Then again you may get an item you want sooner and then have your POV change after that.

Daemon

08-10-2013, 11:48 AM

As "hard" as you have to work for these drops it still isn't nothing compared to the old days.

You know, the days where ppl would actually invest 6 months and gillions on 1 piece of gear. Now if ppl don't get it in 1 fight that requires a lil bit of farming first they /rage.

sad days

Do I get pissed after spending 7-8 hours doing Yumcax and getting crap drops? Yes but I also realize that if I was getting the drops I wanted then I wouldn't be doing it as much which could be a big problem for anyone who has yet to do it. Now I may stop doing it if I keep getting terrible drops but it really doesn't take much effort to do WK. I just look at past events and realize how hard it is for some people to do them because most people have gotten what they want from the events like Abyssea.

And this is why I spent way too much time posting to give light to all of you how I see the difference. So I'm not the only one.

Repeat of what I said earlier:
If your idea of FFXI is to have it easy for you, my reasons for playing this game is the challenge, earn my items so I can actually enjoy what I've earned rather than feel like I wasted time putting endless hours for items people can get easily.

So if the DEVS made it easier, then you have the other players who feel the same like me feel this will suck. And we maybe the next ones to complain after it. Which falls under what I said earlier.

Balance is not easy, can't make everyone happy and people will complain regardless.

OmnysValefor

08-10-2013, 12:02 PM

Well when you have to dig through millions of lines of computer code in programming like the old content? Especially when various people wrote the coding may incorporate different techniques than others. You are piled with so many issues, its not easy to say we are going to do this and then make it happen right away.

I hate people who try to use this as an excuse for developers. While the structure of projects decay over time, projects attempt to be structured so that changing one aspect doesn't involve other unrelated aspects. On top of that, the "millions of lines of computer code" is not a valid argument to the point that SE, as a company, should know their playerbase. I've seen code additions cause wild changes, but it certainly didn't place a waypoint on top of most of the NMs. SE did that.

I have never been able to to understand why companies like SE and Blizzard don't pay people to understand their gamers.

You also can't say that Matsui is blameless for the up-ending of FFXI gearing paradigm. We are not <every other major MMO>. Colliding FFXI with gear being outdated every few months just makes gearing seem so uncertain. Now you drop 4 million in a piece of rare/ex gear and you almost expect it to be subpar next month.

Here again, Matsui, and those working for him, should have recognized that the gear practices in FFXI is part of the reason some people play this game. FFXI takes min-maxing to extremes since you can min-max every aspect of your character, and the only excuse for why you don't is favoritism towards something else. (IE, my whm's idle refresh set is +5. It could be +7, but I'd rather keep my tp bonus moonshade, and I need the refresh weapon)

Daemon

08-10-2013, 12:13 PM

I hate people who try to use this as an excuse for developers. While the structure of projects decay over time, projects attempt to be structured so that changing one aspect doesn't involve other unrelated aspects. On top of that, the "millions of lines of computer code" is not a valid argument to the point that SE, as a company, should know their playerbase. I've seen code additions cause wild changes, but it certainly didn't place a waypoint on top of most of the NMs. SE did that.

I have never been able to to understand why companies like SE and Blizzard don't pay people to understand their gamers.

You also can't say that Matsui is blameless for the up-ending of FFXI gearing paradigm. We are not <every other major MMO>. Colliding FFXI with gear being outdated every few months just makes gearing seem so uncertain. Now you drop 4 million in a piece of rare/ex gear and you almost expect it to be subpar next month.

Here again, Matsui, and those working for him, should have recognized that the gear practices in FFXI is part of the reason some people play this game. FFXI takes min-maxing to extremes since you can min-max every aspect of your character, and the only excuse for why you don't is favoritism towards something else. (IE, my whm's idle refresh set is +5. It could be +7, but I'd rather keep my tp bonus moonshade, and I need the refresh weapon)

Using it as an excuse doesn't mean the problem is not there. And that we should totally ignore this. Are you really not understanding the limitations of technology that's 13 years old? He cannot do all he wants with PS2 limits.

That is not a poor excuse.

Again I'm not disagreeing when you rant but If you want to argue, I'm saying argue atleast with that on your mind.

Yes people do work for the gear, but what's there to work on after you get it?

Demon6324236

08-10-2013, 12:16 PM

Using it as an excuse doesn't mean the problem is not there. And that we should totally ignore this. Are you really not understanding the limitations of technology that's 13 years old? He cannot do all he wants with PS2 limits.

That is not a poor excuse.When it comes to things like drop rates, avatars, DRK Fast Cast, RMEs, or any other number of issues that have not been addressed in updates or updates themselves which have not been implemented, yes, that is a poor excuse for any of those. While some things like HD Graphics, extra complex zones, super amazing animations, a greater inventory system, or many other things might be able to be blamed on the PS2, there is a large amount of unaddressed issues which can not be blamed on the PS2 as well.

Daemon

08-10-2013, 12:20 PM

When it comes to things like drop rates, avatars, DRK Fast Cast, RMEs, or any other number of issues that have not been addressed in updates or updates themselves which have not been implemented, yes, that is a poor excuse for any of those. While some things like HD Graphics, extra complex zones, super amazing animations, a greater inventory system, or many other things might be able to be blamed on the PS2, there is a large amount of unaddressed issues which can not be blamed on the PS2 as well.

Yeah it's the job you want fixed just the same as many others complaining about every other job.

DJ I took you for someone who reads up on everything or did you miss this?

We are also looking into Gobbiebags, but as there are risks that these will cause other inconveniences such, as items not displaying right away when logging in or changing areas, we would like to closely investigate methods that have low risk and have a high possibility of realizing (including methods other than Gobbiebags).

That's what I mean he is struggling due to PS2 limitations.

Also one of the reasons they said before that some jobs cannot have more spells added because of reaching the cap.

Demon6324236

08-10-2013, 12:27 PM

What he means, is longer load times, the same thing they have said for months now as to why they have not yet done it, yet I have yet to see a single person say.

No! Not longer load times, fuck inventory, I don't need that, just let me load my zone & inventory 5 seconds faster! >:O Damn all these people with full inventory trying to ruin this game with their long load times and big inventories.

I have seen no replies like that, instead I see a ton of.

Please for the love of FFXI do this! We need the space! Who cares about extra load times I just want to be able to carry all my junk! T_T

Daemon

08-10-2013, 12:33 PM

What he means, is longer load times, the same thing they have said for months now as to why they have not yet done it, yet I have yet to see a single person say.

I have seen no replies like that, instead I see a ton of.

Yeah and most of those people base judgement without knowing the problem behind the scenes. Trust me I'm the one who complained so many times about inventory issues. Then I learned a little bit from taking Game programming 1 class in Audio Engineering school. I've also studied Computer Technoloy in college. Gave up or better yet took a break after reaching Computer Programming & Developement because it was way too complicated to me using Visual Basic C+.

After I realized PS2 limitations, I rethought my ideas and presented the DEVs the AF4 thread. If you can't add space, remove the items that's over flooding it concept.

Games are not without limits. Most of the time it's about add things, remove things, but much more sophisticated when dealing with MMORPG as big as FFXI and as old as this game the challenge becomes harder each year fanbase starts to lose patience.

OmnysValefor

08-10-2013, 12:36 PM

Daemon

08-10-2013, 12:41 PM

PS2 limitations, and Xbox limitations, because they're also becoming a factor limit the rendering and engine capabilities. They don't inherently limit the function of the UI, but the systems are already strained to the point that SE doesn't want to further stress them.

PS2 limitations do not create a poor loot system, nor any of SE's wild changes. It baffles me why you even brought it up here.

PS2 limitations don't explain why a company couldn't see issues with delve weapons widening the gap between heavy DD and dual wielders (because of weapon selection) or combat-casters like blu.

PS2 limitations doesn't explain why they didn't see any magic accuracy issues with DRK, BLU, NIN magic accuracy.

In spite of real ps2 limitions, xbox limitiations, and the client's limitations (Seriously, I have an NVIDIA 670, quad core 4ghz (o'clocked) and 16 gb ram--my system should be able to run 10 copies of this old game, and yet hiccups with 2, they continue to add content their system can't support. PS2 players black out in delve, VW, besieged more frequently and I can't imagine many try to go to WK.

Crying PS2 limitations, actual or not, when the company keeps themselves tied to it is like a marathon runner shooting himself in the foot and people saying "Well, he was going so solo because he was shot in the feet. Don't be so harsh on him."

That argument would be acceptable if we had NO updates the past 2 months back to back (Meaning you could argue why they didnt make these changes if they did nothing but sit lazily drinking coffee, eating dounuts and surfing the net.) and provide no updates as for item drop rate that's asking him to alter the game effected by everyone playing on every server which would change the balance of time especially for his team that needs the time to work on the game.

"Hey let's make it faster by speeding up the drop rate so we can have much more work that requires us to do overtime or hire more people to keep up with those who want to play the game too fast!"

Diablo III i believe took over 10 years to make. In 3 hours people from Korea beat the game.. That's sad. Every developers worse nightmare.

Ideas are not simple.

Tell me what you can do with 32MB of ram.

Random-access memory (RAM /ræm/) is a form of computer data storage. A random-access device allows stored data to be accessed directly in any random order. In contrast, other data storage media such as hard disks, CDs, DVDs and magnetic tape, as well as early primary memory types such as drum memory, read and write data only in a predetermined order, consecutively, because of mechanical design limitations. Therefore the time to access a given data location varies significantly depending on its physical location.

It's why he can't do so much without screwing up all the Ps2 players. PC doesn't matter. Heck I have 32Gig RAM, 6 Core PC AND Mac Pro Tower. Then there are limits to Video Graphics as well which is why FFXI cannot be made like FF14. Who's fault? Blame PS2.

It's doesn't mean just because we have awesome computers with high end graphic cards, ram, CPU... Yeah I'm sure YOU can run 10 clients on your computer. But he cannot code the game based on your computer. But code the game based on everyone playing FFXI and a good portion of the fanbase are playing off PS2.

Unless SE decides to hire a new team of Developers to recreate FFXI from the start to every single expansion which would cost years and Millions of dollars.

Then again this is one of the reasons Developers never recreated FF7. And 14 would have been a huge waste of money and time for SE to just accept the failure and throw away the game. Which how many years did it take to fix it?

As much money as SE earns off FFXI alone I'm sure is not enough money to just easily wake up one day and say "Hey let's remake all FF games from the start!!" I have millions and millions of dollars to dedicate several years to these projects.

When in fact they said they do need to make a new popular FF Game before they decide to go back and recreate FF7.

SE has bigger problems right now, which I know sounds blunt they need to see a comeback return on the income they spent investing into making FF14. Which is another reason I started to realize that it's not easy to be a gaming company and which is why so many gaming companies in the past went bankrupt.

And well Sorry Electronic Arts, you became greedy by tricking your customers silently adding "BUY ME INGAME" items to kiddie video games that children began running up mommy and daddies credit cards because kids didn't know which is why that was a dirty sleazy scheme that has tarnished the companies name forever.

Personally I will never play another EA game again. I'm just glad SE didn't take that same route.

OmnysValefor

08-10-2013, 01:29 PM

Man, the conversation is so far off base now that it's baffling.

I don't know why you're saying PS2 limitiations for loot systems and how our jobs function. Any Ninja, Blu, or spellcasting DRK (talking about absorbs, lol) could have told you the problems. Any summoner, bst, or pup could tell you the pet job problems. Any dual wielder could have told you the dual wield problems.

But that's so far off-topic it's appalling.

The simple fact is that my friend has been trying to get a foret naakual (I can never remember if that's Tchakka or Achuka for 3 weeks now) and can never catch one. Further, new naakual are becoming chores rather than fun. Camping waiting to claim Fafhogg may have been lame, but at least fighting Nidhogg was fun.

I can admit that there's a little bit of fun in randoms sending me tells asking me to come to their Yumcax or Hurkan now and then, because I do well on PLD, and am pretty well liked, but the fights themselves are not fun. Seriously I'm afraid to go before raid time now because I neither want to delay the raid, miss out on it, or skip a chance at loo because I have to leave--nor do I want to go after raid time because I don't want to be up have the night.

I don't want to struggle and struggle to get a velkk necklace. SE might think drops like that are coy, but in fact, they're insulting. Imagine if when you got an NNI clear, you could trade your key item to the NPC, and he gave you a random piece of gear, but he could choose to try to give you a piece you've already gotten. This is like that.

The whole package--
* the difficulty of the fights - I'm by no means the best pld, but I have, and frequently use, a pdt and mdt capped set and Hurkan still truck me. I don't think that a mass havoc battle should require a paladin at or above my level.

* the gearcheck that they are - if they're going smooth, a great majority of people came on the right jobs and are pretty well geared., even if you came on DRG95/BLM17

* the uncertainty of the win within a reasonable timeframe, the fact that SE client, on all platforms, can't handle mass battles very well. - I might not be able to stay for the whole fight because the fights can be ridiculously long. FFXIAH has talked about 10+ hour long Yumcax's... I think there was a thread here like that. People have to work, they need sleep, they have things planned with friends, RL, and IG.

* Zone, or at least, alliance-hate. - It appears to be zone hate but I think maybe the NM starts to forget people after a while, but a twilight zombie can keep everyone floored for 15 minutes. Mid-recovery, you can lose it all because someone accidentally agroed everything

* the risk that you might get a pebble and a cape you've dropped 3 times.

The entire package depicts an event meant to be endured. And sorry, I'm not trying to list negative aspects, but I can't find something uniquely fun about Achuka that I can't get from Tojil.

Daemon

08-10-2013, 01:47 PM

My Suggestion: Don't change the rare drop rates. Add in a point system that can allow us to earn the rare item regardless after a decent amount of tries. Let us see the points and this will give us a reason to keep playing or add other rewards to the drops that will make it worth our time like Airelixers, HMP pouches or even Coin purses and quest items for REM which I'm sure no one would argue if stuff like Umbral Marrow dropped. Also synthesis materials for the new craft items.

Give us a Flag option to see players who want to team up for WR easier or allow us to buy a Ki and have an easier way to let everyone on the server know we have a KI and ready for invite.

Demon6324236

08-10-2013, 02:20 PM

As I have said a hundred times in the past, if you want to add rewards that make them worth repeating, use the materials that drop from their Delve counterparts. They can be rare materials, with low drop rates, but they would be worth the attempt and on every server so far as I know those materials are still going for a very nice price.

Grayhawk

08-10-2013, 10:32 PM

These drops are really an insult to a lot of us. Did three Hurkan runs in the last few days, got a single pebble in two runs and nothing in the third. I participated the entire runs getting max Bayld and exp and no rewards.180k bayld for some exp is ridiculous. It's about time the developers pulled their head out of their a**es and fixed this crap.

Babekeke

08-11-2013, 07:01 AM

With any luck, as the Coalition rates rise, we may be able to redo the WK Reive KIs and get another Boss item from the quest again (or another, similar quest).

detlef

08-12-2013, 07:01 AM

Another Hurkan, another 0 drops. Let's not change it guys, the system isn't broken at all!

Revati

08-12-2013, 11:06 PM

I have 4 bullets from Hurkan. Please add these to the npc that pouches bullets.

Masamune11

08-12-2013, 11:58 PM

detlef

08-13-2013, 03:36 AM

As I said in a previous post; the solution is easy. Reward a large chunk of plasma for repeating Naakuals. To provide incentive for participating in different Naakual fights, make it so you only receive this reward from a particular Naakual once per week. Right now (for majority of the population) there is no incentive to repeat Naakuals. Most people have gotten everything they need from drops / library quest.I don't think most people have gotten everything they need from drops. And plasm is far, far too easy to obtain for it to be a meaningful reward for enduring a wildskeeper. Making the library quest repeatable is an excellent idea and something I would be willing to do.

FrankReynolds

08-13-2013, 03:51 AM

I don't think most people have gotten everything they need from drops. And plasm is far, far too easy to obtain for it to be a meaningful reward for enduring a wildskeeper. Making the library quest repeatable is an excellent idea and something I would be willing to do.

I think you're grossly underestimating the number of people who have virtually no experience in delve. A large portion of the people doing these would probably kill for a big chunk of plasm instead of going days at a time without getting into even a crappy 3-4k plasm run.

OmnysValefor

08-13-2013, 04:30 AM

You're both right.

What WK needs, to survive, is a way to entice the people willing to gear well and come on the right jobs. I hit 75 in besieged's heyday and while I had fun, I'll be honest, my monk had very little to do with why we won besieged (equally little to do with it when we lost though). I missed a lot, my ws's were poop. It's a fact.

Big fun events are fine, but SE designs them so that if you don't have a lot of people prepared for the actual task, everybody loses. I wouldn't deny the full karieyh DRG his fun, but plasm isn't a reward that's going to keep "the elitists" like me coming back.

Besieged enticed people because it was a currency everybody needed, it was a senseless battle, it was a bit of fun, and it was a good way to skil up (I hope they don't bring skillups to WK).

In campaign, I was a machine. PLD/DNC. Took me about 3 fights on the first night to realize this was a way pld could maintain it's buffer, though I didn't have /dnc for a few weeks. Campaign further attracted people with sellable rewards, good gear, and a way to have fun solo. SAM/DNC couldn't hold as many mobs as I could, but boy it could plow through them. SCH and SMN, after the buff, could get good exp healing and buffing.

The simple solution to WK is to make a proper loot system.

Even after I got my gear, if I was bored, I might be inclined to help a friend if I knew that he was guaranteed a piece of gear unless he had them all.

I don't help people farm bodies in voidwatch for the same reason. Fights are shorter, but much lower drop chance means its an impractical waste of time. If each Kaggen x6 takes 1 hour (and that's super generous), getting people, and everything. Someone restocking stones, etc, you can only do 30 in 5 hours. A great number have people have gone better than 0/300 on it, so what then?

TL;DR: Bad loot systems are bad and should feel bad.