The state of Blue Mage post Adoulin

[larrymc]

The gap in damage between blue mage and other DD jobs has become quite large.

My question is two-fold.

1) What is the exact component of the weapon that is responsible for boosting blue physical spell damage?
a) the amount of combat skill+?
or b) the Damage rating?
or c) some combination of the two?

2) Based on Tamaxchi, the increase in physical blue damage is not sufficient to keep blue mage competitive.

The WS damage of SAM, DRK, MNK has more than doubled. At first glance our physical blu spell damage is only getting a boost of 20-30%. WS damage for BLU has not increased significantly due to loss of our very best ws: CDC. Req & Realm are just so-so.

I hope the answer is not that every blu will need a 99 empy just to be competitive, once those updates are released.

Are there any plans to take a 2nd look at blu and make further adjustments?

[FrankReynolds]

The gap in damage between blue mage and other DD jobs has become quite large.

My question is two-fold.

1) What is the exact component of the weapon that is responsible for boosting blue physical spell damage?
a) the amount of combat skill+?
or b) the Damage rating?
or c) some combination of the two?

2) Based on Tamaxchi, the increase in physical blue damage is not sufficient to keep blue mage competitive.

The WS damage of SAM, DRK, MNK has more than doubled. At first glance our physical blu spell damage is only getting a boost of 20-30%. WS damage for BLU has not increased significantly due to loss of our very best ws: CDC. Req & Realm are just so-so.

I hope the answer is not that every blu will need a 99 empy just to be competitive, once those updates are released.

Are there any plans to take a 2nd look at blu and make further adjustments?

It's ,my understanding that you will be able to unlock CDC through WOE weapons and use it with any sword whenever they get around to implementing that, so at least you won't need a 99 Empy...

That is IF they ever implement that.

[larrymc]

Slycer posted this translation of a response to JP question by Matsui .. it answers my question. Its purely the Damage rating. This club, Tamaxchi, has extremely low D (88) compared to others .. so there is still a sliver of hope that SE didn't disappoint.

The Mondaha Cudgel, and Buramenk'ah both have a DMG rating of 130 - here is hoping for a better physical skill boost in the August 6th update when both of these weapons get skill+.


Question from player (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts-(NO-DISCUSSION)?p=5831243&viewfull=1#post5831243):
Although it was mentioned in other threads that magic damage and accuracy would rise in proportion to combat skill on the main weapon, I tried it out with Tamaxchi on blue mage (club skill +188), but I did not see the damage effect of blue magic rise as I would have expected. Has the specification not already been implemented? [[Goes on about blue magic]]

Matsui's response:
For physical blue magic, the upper limit of the damage will be adjusted with DMG. For certain spells, they did not reach their damage limit, but do now with the "combat skill +" gear, while there are other spells which will continue to grow.

[Tennotsukai]

Wow. Thanks Larry.

[larrymc]

I've been thinking on Matsui's reply - and he basically said that all blu physical spells will not scale with D - once a spell reaches its internal damage limit - throwing more D at it wont help. So we need to determine which spells are not already capped and will benefit from this boost? I will do some testing later - I have only tried the club with a handful of physical spells that I normally have set - didn't even think about retrying them all until now.

[FrankReynolds]

I've been thinking on Matsui's reply - and he basically said that all blu physical spells will not scale with D - once a spell reaches its internal damage limit - throwing more D at it wont help. So we need to determine which spells are not already capped and will benefit from this boost? I will do some testing later - I have only tried the club with a handful of physical spells that I normally have set - didn't even thing about retrying them all until now.

It would be funny if huge damage boosts to previously crappy spells caused them to surpass the current best spells due to capped / uncapped damage.

[Metaking]

its been a while but dint blu spells use to get a Dcap (from skill) 16 levels above when they were learned, might be a good place to start your test

[larrymc]

I almost hesitate to post these testing results ... because

1) the sample set is so small and
2) the results are so disappointing.

I decided to test against an adoulin mob - I picked Monster Peiste in Morimar Basalt Fields for high levelish fighting conditions.
They check as "very tough".

My stats were str 87+56, dex 93+36, vit 77+5, agi 83+22, int 91+14, mnd 80+59, chr 81, blu skill 455 for all tests.

For the testing of each spell - I did several with Tamaxchi in main hand, Mondaha Cudgel offhand.
Then I would swap clubs & perform more spells.

I have tested a variety of spells - all level ranges - with the assumption that the higher level the spell, the higher the D cap.

All tests were for a given spell were performed against the exact same mob (these mobs have quite a bit of HP).

Quadrastrike - LVL96
Raw data
....Tamachi mainhand - 987,760,879,1007,644
....Tamachi off-hand - 804,784,719,588,541

Average
....Tamachi mainhand - 855.4 (24% increase)
....Tamachi off-hand - 687.2

Death Scissors - LVL34
Raw data
....Tamachi mainhand - 434,378,417,333,316,327,322,415,312,337
....Tamachi off-hand - 295,400,267,383,304,310,328,234,404,327,409

Average
....Tamachi mainhand - 359.1 (7% increase)
....Tamachi off-hand - 332.8


Vanity Dive - LVL82 (data from 2 mobs combined)
Raw data
....Tamachi mainhand - 570,774,770,637,873,762,559,889,885,660,603,809
....Tamachi off-hand - 483,495,498,763,553,563,716,705,688,731,623,689

Average
....Tamachi mainhand - 732.5 (17% increase)
....Tamachi off-hand - 625.5

Whirl of Rage - LVL83
Raw data
....Tamachi mainhand - 681,631,772,498,625,611
....Tamachi off-hand - 412,424,693,679,469,548

Average
....Tamachi mainhand - 636.3 (18% increase)
....Tamachi off-hand - 537.5

Barbed Crescent - LVL99
Raw data
....Tamachi mainhand - 430,382,347,263,383,385,322,335,369,405
....Tamachi off-hand - 335,328,333,337,340,322,328,226,330

Average
....Tamachi mainhand - 362.1 (13% increase)
....Tamachi off-hand - 319.8


Sudden Lunge - LVL95
Raw data
....Tamachi mainhand - 127,87,143,89,124,122,123,114,112,122
....Tamachi off-hand - 110,103,126,124,124,88,86,123,114,104

Average
....Tamachi mainhand - 116.3 (5% increase)
....Tamachi off-hand - 110.2


Each sample set was small - but taken in aggregate - we are not getting enough of a damage boost to be competitive.

I really hope that this is a bug in implementation, and not what SE intended...

[FrankReynolds]

Each sample set was small - but taken in aggregate - we are not getting enough of a damage boost to be competitive.

I really hope that this is a bug in implementation, and not what SE intended...

Hey, the good news is all that amazing melee damage you will pump out with those clubs.

[Tennotsukai]

Hey, the good news is all that amazing melee damage you will pump out with those clubs.

Lol... so funny

[Metaking]

actually good realm set and the fact heavy strike(light sc) lands reliably makes tamaxchi kinda mean atm >.>

[Tennotsukai]

actually good realm set and the fact heavy strike(light sc) lands reliably makes tamaxchi kinda mean atm >.>

With 88 dmg? Idk, the club I have now has way more than that. Also with a club we have way less accuracy, that's something you don't want to use on harder enemies often with a spell that has -100 acc.

[Tennotsukai]

Also, I'm aware tamaxchi gives us a lot of acc through skill up+ but 88 is not good d.

[Metaking]

no but its dps is outdoing Mondaha cudgel and all that attack on it atm will make realm easily out pace req and vorp on sword tho that might be moot in a few days,also +90 macc means sudden lunge almost always lands for full duration in delve not to mention dream flowers sleep.

[larrymc]

no but its dps is outdoing Mondaha cudgel and all that attack on it atm will make realm easily out pace req and vorp on sword tho that might be moot in a few days,also +90 macc means sudden lunge almost always lands for full duration in delve not to mention dream flowers sleep.

I have no argument about that - but the points your making are unrelated to physical blu spell damage. Yes the m.acc on club makes it so that our spells land again, but there is very little damage increase.

[Tennotsukai]

no but its dps is outdoing Mondaha cudgel and all that attack on it atm will make realm easily out pace req and vorp on sword tho that might be moot in a few days,also +90 macc means sudden lunge almost always lands for full duration in delve not to mention dream flowers sleep.

Yes, there is a lot of attack and what you're saying may be true, but have you seen what they are doing to the rest of delve weapons in 2 days? Also, Mondaha cudgel is receiving a lot of MAcc with this update too. Over 60 i think. After update, this club won't seem like much me thinks...

[Metaking]

@ Tennotsukai in 2 days it will still have more attack acc (+188skill vs 153[+18 acc tho]) and a higher dps (24.44 vs 22.94) than Mondaha and a decent amount of macc over it too (90 vs 58+15[73macc path]), only place tamaxch would lose is mnd(5 vrs 20+10) and base D (88 vs 130) but the delay difference is so massive (216 vs 340) it easily a better weapon, tho imo im hopeing the skill added to Buramenk'ah (hope i spelled that right >.>;) is enough to make req worth using over realm, that or se goofs up and adds blu to sharur and in one case or the other make tamaxchi an off hand weapon were it would excel.

@ Larrymc i was actually countering them trying to call it a bad blu weapon, its not just they don't realize how to use it right, so trying to explain its virtues i mean were blus we gotta use every tool we have to keep are value in the eyes of people who normally only take the most popular jobs. From a melee spell standpoint Bura will probably add the most be interesting to see req -> quad with it for sure.

[larrymc]

Any possibility that an SE rep can respond to the damage data in this thread to say yes or no on whether BLU physical damage is now "as expected" or too low?

[Tennotsukai]

Any possibility that an SE rep can respond to the damage data in this thread to say yes or no on whether BLU physical damage is now "as expected" or too low?

Nooooo. We hate blu.

[Camate]

Greetings, immortals.

You'll be happy to know that we do indeed have additional blue magic adjustments planned, and below is a message from Akihiko Matsui about what is in the works for blue mage.



Matsui here.

I’d like to share some information about blue magic adjustments that are being planned.

In the July version update, we made it so that the damage value for physical blue magic spells increases depending on the combat skill value found on your main weapon. However, the development team feels it necessary to make additional adjustments to the power of blue magic spells.

With that said, in the fall version update we are planning to make adjustments so that the attack power of physical blue magic spells also increases depending on the combat skill value of your main weapon.

We’re also working towards adding new blue magic spells in the fall version update as well. We’ll be announcing details on this once we are at the stage where we can share.

[Vivivivi]

Hopefully that one move the new marbols use that steals all buffs :D Yay for some blue mage love!

[SpankWustler]

With that said, in the fall version update we are planning to make adjustments so that the attack power of physical blue magic spells also increases depending on the combat skill value of your main weapon.


http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m56qs61yCJ1rvzvq4o1_1280.jpg

Happy ravenous horde of baby opossums living in what appears to be a repurposed outhouse IS HAPPY!

[larrymc]

Greetings, immortals.

You'll be happy to know that we do indeed have additional blue magic adjustments planned, and below is a message from Akihiko Matsui about what is in the works for blue mage.

This is really great news! I cant wait - and thank you for the response.

[Tennotsukai]

Greetings, immortals.

You'll be happy to know that we do indeed have additional blue magic adjustments planned, and below is a message from Akihiko Matsui about what is in the works for blue mage.

And this is why I will continue to play FFXI....love that Blue Mage.

[Alistaire]

Meanwhile, back at the development offices of Square Enix...https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6w35jRo6gK0/Udwf7JGN4oI/AAAAAAAAqhc/JCBtIcl0GFg/w500-h277-no/5qiaF4L.gif

This answers anything and everything I could ever think to ask here. And more coherently than most of the people who post here, too.

Btw, who did this? Cyriak? It looks very Cyriak...

[Babekeke]

So Blue Magic Skill will now affect what? Just magic spell accuracy? And potency for a couple of spells...

Would have been nice to see it act as a multiplier for damage: eg. at 99 with 500 skill, 500/424 would give almost an 18% increase in damage. After the main-hand combat skill has been taken into account, of course.

[FrankReynolds]

This answers anything and everything I could ever think to ask here. And more coherently than most of the people who post here, too.

Btw, who did this? Cyriak? It looks very Cyriak...

Nah, #pixelpushing on G+.

[Camate]

Hello!

In addition to questions about blue magic spell damage and new blue magic spells, I know there have been a lot of questions about blue magic spell accuracy and magic accuracy in general, so I wanted to let you all know that the development team is aiming to implement adjustments in the fall version update to address this.

The adjustments will make it so magic accuracy increases when a weapon equipped in your main hand has an item level as well as combat skill+ on it. This is not only for blue magic, but for all magic spells.

We’ll let you know more details once more aspects of this become finalized!

[HimuraKenshyn]

Hello!

In addition to questions about blue magic spell damage and new blue magic spells, I know there have been a lot of questions about blue magic spell accuracy and magic accuracy in general, so I wanted to let you all know that the development team is aiming to implement adjustments in the fall version update to address this.

The adjustments will make it so magic accuracy increases when a weapon equipped in your main hand has an item level as well as combat skill+ on it. This is not only for blue magic, but for all magic spells.

We’ll let you know more details once more aspects of this become finalized!

Man some blu love I am so happy atm I can't stand it....

[Babekeke]

Hello!

In addition to questions about blue magic spell damage and new blue magic spells, I know there have been a lot of questions about blue magic spell accuracy and magic accuracy in general, so I wanted to let you all know that the development team is aiming to implement adjustments in the fall version update to address this.

The adjustments will make it so magic accuracy increases when a weapon equipped in your main hand has an item level as well as combat skill+ on it. This is not only for blue magic, but for all magic spells.

We’ll let you know more details once more aspects of this become finalized!

Irrelevant when the spells in question won't even land on TWTBW content.... Then we're told to submit a bug report....

[dasva]

So Blue Magic Skill will now affect what? Just magic spell accuracy? And potency for a couple of spells...

Would have been nice to see it act as a multiplier for damage: eg. at 99 with 500 skill, 500/424 would give almost an 18% increase in damage. After the main-hand combat skill has been taken into account, of course.

I don't think they have put out anything different about blue magic skill doing anything new... do you mean the huge weapon skill on current weapons?

If you mean blue magic skill it effects the same things it always has macc, att side of pdif for physical spells, potency for some buffs and base dmg on physical spells

If you mean the weapon skill right now it's just acc like normal skill in your main hand weapon would do and a little bit of base dmg though no where near enough to even keep up with how much base dmg on weapons have gone up. Dev notes have said they will also do macc, the attack side of pdif, and more to base dmg (though probably will still be way under compared to the increases on weapons get).

So as far as comparing to blu skill would still need buff potency for a the few buffs that are based on that. And I think maybe a couple of debuffs.

Of couse there is another thing that isn't blu skill related but is lvl related that this forgets and that is blu magical spells (and for that matter magical ws in general). The base dmg of both those is lvl. So it litterally hasn't gone up at all while others still have which has completely killed magical ws. Now the elemental magic update has helped blms and schs and such but didn't do jack for blus magical spells and they basically got extra base dmg in the form of all these weapons with that new weapon dmg on it while blu doesn't really.... which brings us to the other problem with casting. Right now we have macc problems because we aren't getting any like other jobs. After the update skill will play a part so we can fix the macc problem... but it comes at the cost of putting on a weapon that doesn't really add to dmg. So it will end up being chosing between however much macc 242 skill gives which will probably be upwards of 200 or 15% dmg <.<.

[Babekeke]

If you mean blue magic skill it effects the same things it always has macc, att side of pdif for physical spells, potency for some buffs and base dmg on physical spells

From what Matsui posted on page 2, it sounds to me like att power will now come from combat weapon skill, instead of blue magic.

[Ophannus]

Both actually. I think it's going to add Blue Magic Skill + Combat Skill of Main Hand(not just +skill from mainhand i think). If it's just +skill from main hand, we're only talking a 230ish attack boost which is niceish but these NMs have 800-1200+ defense, our current Blue Attack is ~530-560ish, adding another 230 from main hand skill mean we'll still be floored pdif. Even adding sword skill+blue skill and STR/2, that'd still only be like 1000-1100 or so which is nice but remember we have no way to raise that attack unlike other jobs which get songs/berserk/rolls/food. Some spells give bonuses which grant 15-33% attack power which is still 1300-1400 which is nice, but to get the same damage on delve NMs that we can deal to fodder, we'd need 1800-2k+ blue attack which would mean either giving a multiplier to either blue skill or combat skill, like 1.3 or 1.5x or something.

[Babekeke]

Both actually. I think it's going to add Blue Magic Skill + Combat Skill of Main Hand(not just +skill from mainhand i think). If it's just +skill from main hand, we're only talking a 230ish attack boost which is niceish but these NMs have 800-1200+ defense, our current Blue Attack is ~530-560ish, adding another 230 from main hand skill mean we'll still be floored pdif. Even adding sword skill+blue skill and STR/2, that'd still only be like 1000-1100 or so which is nice but remember we have no way to raise that attack unlike other jobs which get songs/berserk/rolls/food. Some spells give bonuses which grant 15-33% attack power which is still 1300-1400 which is nice, but to get the same damage on delve NMs that we can deal to fodder, we'd need 1800-2k+ blue attack which would mean either giving a multiplier to either blue skill or combat skill, like 1.3 or 1.5x or something.

Hence why I think every skill of blue magic above cap should add a multiplier. To make it easy for them, let's call it 1/256. 100 skill over cap would give about 1.39 multiplier. Merits alone would give a 1.06 multiplier.

[dasva]

From what Matsui posted on page 2, it sounds to me like att power will now come from combat weapon skill, instead of blue magic.

After the update yeah or at least add to what is already there. But right now no

[dasva]

Both actually. I think it's going to add Blue Magic Skill + Combat Skill of Main Hand(not just +skill from mainhand i think). If it's just +skill from main hand, we're only talking a 230ish attack boost which is niceish but these NMs have 800-1200+ defense, our current Blue Attack is ~530-560ish, adding another 230 from main hand skill mean we'll still be floored pdif. Even adding sword skill+blue skill and STR/2, that'd still only be like 1000-1100 or so which is nice but remember we have no way to raise that attack unlike other jobs which get songs/berserk/rolls/food. Some spells give bonuses which grant 15-33% attack power which is still 1300-1400 which is nice, but to get the same damage on delve NMs that we can deal to fodder, we'd need 1800-2k+ blue attack which would mean either giving a multiplier to either blue skill or combat skill, like 1.3 or 1.5x or something.

Well wouldn't be floored since ratio and pdif can go down to zero. Just a little under 1 not accounting for innate attack bonuses that most of the physical DD spells have. Which when combined with this update should be fine. We really shouldn't be dealing as much dmg on the high content nms as fodder realistically speaking... at least not without alot of -def. And SE is never going to do that. I mean let a job that can basically spam ws cap pdif on the hardest content without outside help... Though if they fix troubillion and people start using dnc or /dnc more we wont really need much of any attack buffs. For anyjob. 1.2k def doesn't help nms much if you are keeping -79%+ def on them

That said it wouldn't be too crazy to have blu attack from the combat skill have a small multiple. But our physical spells face another problem in base dmg. Since it seems like they are more or less just going to add the combat skill to the blue magic skill into the base dmg formula the effect is somewhat subpar especailly to the dmg weapons have gained. It's like if when we went from 75 to 99 we didn't get any new spells and were still using disseverment. Sure it did gain some power from blue skill but we are still 24 levels of skill behind. Though implementing ilvl spells would be difficult too.

Another way to think of it is blue physical spell base dmg (ie the part from just skill) tended to be somewhere between that of a 2hd and 1hd job so about where mnk is after you account from skill but with much higher fstr caps then any weapon. 242 blue skill assuming the best swds combat skill directly adding to blue skill for base dmg would add about 53 base dmg. Comparatively mnk has gained 109 base dmg compared to vere <.<. Heck just going from 99 almace to bura is 70 base dmg. Compounded by the relatively weak spell mods compared to most of modern ws mods. It's no wonder that blues hardly cast DD spells anymore even with capped pdif it can be a dps loss even at low haste amounts without CA/Efflux

[Babekeke]

1.2k def doesn't help nms much if you are keeping -79%+ def on them

I must be missing something... how are you getting -79% def on a mob?

[Metaking]

dia 3 - 15% turbilion -33%(generic def down) box step 13% tho there not additive, and even if they were would not be 79%. Truth told im not sure of the order between generic def down and steps but i do believe Dia is counted first on the pile.
so quick guessy math 100def-15%= 85def-33% =56.95def-13%=49.54 soooo all the def downs we have atm would drop a monster to alittle less than half there def >.>/ mind you this would still royally screw over alot of mobs.

[dasva]

Since when were they not additive. Every test I've seen including ones I've done myself have shown them to be additive. Did they change it with the expansion or something? I've recently tested att boosts/downs are still additive too. But for the sake of argument I'll go check again. Anyways dia 3 + light shot or dia 2 + double light shot is 20%. Troub is 33%. Box step is 13% and indi or geo fraility unbuffed is also 13%. So 20+ 33 + 13 + 13 = 79. If geo 1hrs that's another 13%. But obviously not going to rely on that for anything other than bosses and such but then again you shouldn't need the extra on anything but bosses

Edit: Ok went to abyssea with 512 def. Put 5/5 sluggish daze on limule (-13%), used dia III (-15%), and tortoise stomp (-25%) and when it reflected them back onto me I went down to 240 def which is comes out to a 53.125% drop in def. Of course it's probably not exactly that amount due to rounding and the fact the game tends to use x/256 instead of easy percents but still clearly shows to be additive since otherwise depending on order I should've still had a good 280 or so

[Babekeke]

OK, I forgot about light shot and Geo. Unlikely that Tourbillion will ever be fixed to the point that it's reliably used in a boss strategy though.

[dasva]

OK, I forgot about light shot and Geo. Unlikely that Tourbillion will ever be fixed to the point that it's reliably used in a boss strategy though.

I agree but at least now they say they are finally looking into it... I mean it only took like 8 or so bug reports over 2 years and a few threads in other forums so maybe in another 2 years it finally will be fixed!!! But yeah if it didn't have some weird auto resist feature that makes it not land even on lvl 0 mobs we could at least ES it on or use the rediculous amount of macc that we hopefully will have after the next update.

Even if we don't putting angon in instead for -71-84% is still mighty strong. But being a blu thread and ever hopeful to have my favorite job actually have it's spells work I go with the hope of troubillion.

[Metaking]

yea guilty on light shot and geo as well hmmm considering def down is wind based would wind shot up it as well? I was always under the imprecision that dia at very least had its own floor from generic def down(could be wrong tho), steps i really had no idea on geos would stack additively tho since it is additional generic def down.
The issue with turbilion was thought to be linked with the macc issues on some weaponskills and relic weapons as well so fixing it for blu might put drgs in a bit of a tight spot (tho seeing a war using armor break and it doing what its suppose to would be mind blowing <.< or a sch using that occult omen for a shell break) turbillions chance to miss physically tho even if the effect was 100% magically would still keep a drg as the safe option.

ps. yea all attack boost % stack additively tho i remember a drk in my shell saying his attack wasn't what he expected it to be when he was using attack % gear, o and forgive any spelling errors at the ass end of a grave yard shift <.<

[Babekeke]

ps. yea all attack boost % stack additively tho i remember a drk in my shell saying his attack wasn't what he expected it to be when he was using attack % gear, o and forgive any spelling errors at the ass end of a grave yard shift <.<

Att% gear is all additive % from base att.

eg, base att of 500.

berserk 25%, warcry 15% (to keep numbers easy), and 10% att from gear.

With berserk and warcry up, you get 700 att, but adding 10% att gear to that only gives 10% of the base 500, so +50 and not +70 att.

Adding food that gives +%, last resort and/or chaos roll all make the att boost from % based att gear even less effective than using standard att gear.

[dasva]

yea guilty on light shot and geo as well hmmm considering def down is wind based would wind shot up it as well? I was always under the imprecision that dia at very least had its own floor from generic def down(could be wrong tho), steps i really had no idea on geos would stack additively tho since it is additional generic def down.
The issue with turbilion was thought to be linked with the macc issues on some weaponskills and relic weapons as well so fixing it for blu might put drgs in a bit of a tight spot (tho seeing a war using armor break and it doing what its suppose to would be mind blowing <.< or a sch using that occult omen for a shell break) turbillions chance to miss physically tho even if the effect was 100% magically would still keep a drg as the safe option.

The reports I've seen had geos stacking additively in pvp. But I don't have enough accounts/ballista points to really go check for myself without getting someone to help since you can't do transfer tricks. Geo debuffs have their own thing though kinda like steps except can't be removed or transferred

Yeah it's not just blu spells. Though some of the newer macc problems for some other stuff (like additional effect procs) is coming from ilvl system. Mobs gaining more meva while melees aren't gaining macc since we aren't actually leveling. The weird part is they work on the test server. Which is how they got tested i the first place. While I haven't tried all spells I wasn't able to get QD of any element to enhance any blu debuff I've tried. Same with pet debuffs. Actually only def down that I've heard of being QDd was acid bolts but not sure how accurate the source is

[Camate]

Greetings, immortals!

Are your bodies ready to learn the new blue magic spells that the November version update has to offer?

Take a peek below at what we will be implementing!


Regular blue magic spells

Nature’s Meditation
Increases attack power.


Tempestuous Upheaval
Deals wind damage to surrounding enemies.


Rending Deluge
Deals water damage to surrounding enemies. Additional effect: Dispel.


Embalming Earth
Deals earth damage to surrounding enemies. Additional effect: Slow.


Paralyzing Triad
Delivers a threefold attack. Additional effect: Paralyze. Damage varies with TP.


Foul Water
Deals water damage to surrounding enemies. Additional effect: Drown.


Glutinous Dart
Damage varies with TP.


Retinal Glare
Deals light damage to surrounding enemies. Additional effect: Flash.



Unbridled Learning spells

Droning Whirlwind
Deals wind damage to surrounding enemies. Additional effect: Dispel.


Carcharian Verve
Increases physical and magical attack power, and reduces spell interruption rate.


Blistering Roar
Freezes surrounding enemies in fear.


For the November version update, the monsters you can learn spells for Unbridled Learning will only be from Delve NMs; however, keeping it this way would make the difficulty higher, so we are looking to make it possible to learn these spells from wildskeeper reive NMs in the future.

With the specifications for the current wildskeeper reive NMs it is not possible to learn blue magic spells from them, so we need to create a new system for this which will take a little bit of time. Once there are developments with this, we will be sure to let you know!

[larrymc]

For the November version update, the monsters you can learn spells for Unbridled Learning will only be from Delve NMs

This will pose an interesting challenge .. I dont know if other delve groups are like ours - but we typically have core set of people that play the brd, cor, sch role. I guess we will have to get more people up to speed on those spots so we can all learn our blue spells.

Side note - I have never tried this, but have always wondered if a full alliance of blue mages could defeat all the bosses .. may try that next week because of this - does sudden lunge and/or head butt land on bosses?

[Phafi]

http://i.imgur.com/J5DY6.png

[evanwimbish]

They still forgot to give us more blu points and slots!!!!

[Babekeke]

Will be interesting to see what new traits are given, if any, or what new combinations are possible for existing traits, for preferably less cost. Lower cost spells/job trait combos is almost as good as more blue mage points.

[Tennotsukai]

While at it, you guys could fix Tourbillion and Barbed Crescent....even the other blu spells if you feel like it. That'd give us more than just 11 spells this update if you think about it.

[FaeQueenCory]

Well it's nice to know that the new spells aren't new-2hr-only...
But I kinda worry about the Delve-only learnings....
Delve brings out the douchery... or at least it does more than before-Adoulin-endgame... Or maybe I've just had too many Dbags and not enough nice ppl. (there are some, but it's been few and far between)
"there's not place for X" is kinda the thing with Delve.... SCH, MNK, SAM, DRG, DRK, WHM, BRD, COR... um... I think that's it. Oh! GEO too!
But some of those are like 1-2 ppl only... and maybe the REM update will coincide to make more.... yeah.... who am I kidding? It'll just make more MNK, SAM, DRK, and DRGs viable.
I wonder if any BLUs will have these before the WKRification....
Outside of big/ungodly/inhuman LSs... with nice ppl who are willing to loose dps to let someone go blu...
...
>_>
I'm glad I'm not BLU and don't really have to personally worry.... But I worry on behalf of the BLUs because they exist and are valid human beings too.... :(

(Maybe I'm only talking english delve ppl... I've heard rumor of more variance in the JP players... of talk of requiescating RUNs... buuuut.... Can't substantiate those rumors or not.)

[evanwimbish]

As for blu in delve... Blu has soo many effeebs to contribute (absolute terror sticks on all delve nms except like 4, sudden lunge, bad breath, water bomb, benthic typhoon, maelstrom, lowing, ect) with this new update, you will definatly see new gears to make delve EVEN EASIER for all jobs, making the old strategy to get to Mega boss's obsolete (example we don't bard swap as much, spells are more reliably sticking on nms ect) SE said we will get new accessories and AF1 revamps (probably a trial) so I can only imagine what the blu armor is like and how this can help with events, the AF revamp is going to be like rune and geo, and the accessories (ring neck earring belt) will probably not be AS good as the reive capes, but you can assume they will have cray stats! Hopefully now my blu can get 100/+200 int mind with these new gears instead of being stuck at 100/172, anywho can't wait till Monday!! And SE PLEASE GIVE US MORE BLUE MAGIC POINTS AND SLOTS!!!

[dragmagi]

More importantly give us spell that work.

[Draylo]

As for blu in delve... Blu has soo many effeebs to contribute (absolute terror sticks on all delve nms except like 4, sudden lunge, bad breath, water bomb, benthic typhoon, maelstrom, lowing, ect) with this new update, you will definatly see new gears to make delve EVEN EASIER for all jobs, making the old strategy to get to Mega boss's obsolete (example we don't bard swap as much, spells are more reliably sticking on nms ect) SE said we will get new accessories and AF1 revamps (probably a trial) so I can only imagine what the blu armor is like and how this can help with events, the AF revamp is going to be like rune and geo, and the accessories (ring neck earring belt) will probably not be AS good as the reive capes, but you can assume they will have cray stats! Hopefully now my blu can get 100/+200 int mind with these new gears instead of being stuck at 100/172, anywho can't wait till Monday!! And SE PLEASE GIVE US MORE BLUE MAGIC POINTS AND SLOTS!!!

Most of those spells are really bad man. Bad Breath? That spell is complete crap, I wish they would update such an iconic spell for BLU in the series but its horrible :( Huge MP cost, huge casting time and very weak effect. The rest of those spells you are just wasting time casting instead of DDing. At high attack speed with BRD you are losing tons of dmg casting things like Maelstrom and Lowing.

[Tennotsukai]

Maybe if Tourbillion worked we could use that, assuming -def isn't already capped or what not. Like Draylo though, I probably wouldn't use too many spells. I have yet to use blu in delve because we all need a geo, but that brings me to my next point. If said geo is gone, wouldn't benthic be an okay option to use then? -10def/mdef....last long enough? Idk, but I'd love to use blu in delve if I could. I believe that time will come after update though.

[Tennotsukai]

Also, I would like to add that my blu relic +2 aug'd boots are dying to be used with diffusion again. Really excited to see if either of these 2 new buffs (hopefully UL) are worth diffusing to a party. I'd be ahead of many others for once :)

[RatixFarrence]

There needs to be a focus in development to prevent the downtime of setting spells by allowing at least 2-3 spell presets to be set as there are many spell combinations to use. A BLU could be using Yellow !! weakness spells in one minute and then another minute setting melee or magic damage dealing spells. There is already downtime in setting the spells itself, much less the extra downtime for setting said spells. Could there be a solution for this in the future?

[evanwimbish]

What I liked most about draylos post was that he didn't turn his post into an attack. I did not feel embarrassed to have posted, or discriminated and I encourage forum users to keep this same ethical behavior! Moving forward.. I have tested all of the blu spells on each of the tier 1-5 NMs for delve. I only brought up bad breath because I recently use this as a method to kill tier II urganite in foret. As draylo suggested it does suck! But EVERYTHINg from the spell procs... Down to the poison.... I will use ABerrant urganite as an example.

The more enfeebs this NM has on, the more Dmg it takes

I use bad breath, and have another char use impact
That's 14 enfeebs..

Benthic typhoon
Infrasonics
Absolute terror
Lowing
Sudden lunge
Sandspin/ barbed crescent

That's 19... Use wk or delve club, have ??/100+ int/mind
5/5 hagondes set and blu can reliably dream flower, yawn, sheep song delve NMs... All my other enfeebs stick just as well and the only immune I have seen from blu inside delve is from select absolute terror monsters (tutewehiwehi ect), using this same INT method my charged whisker one shots skirmish enemy's. I have been pdt bluing since day one with frisky sabots for infinite flee . Thunderbolt ----charged--- whirl---dream--- sleepga 2 repeat.. 3-7k benthic typhoons on tutewehiwehi (/thf) I would love to see more blu In delve other than just me.. magical blu magic sticks more frequent vs physical,,,, use well-put-together gear with magical spells! And blu is like an alt for rdm... Ooh and capitalize on mind and use magic hammer (on monsters with mp) for 200-600 mp return (nm or non nm) and by the looks of it most ppl haven't tried to cure with white wind for 700-3500+(abyssea) AOE... Maybe this could help too since based on your max HP and SOA has plenty hp armor, and gave blu cure pot cap! Goooooo blu!!!!

[FaeQueenCory]

:D
All you BLUs with your "let me do this too"!!
I really hope y'all get in!
BLU has always been a fav of mine... Even though I've not really leveled it...
^_^
Let's hope all the aforementioned changes not only allow for BLU in Delve, but other jobs too.

[dasva]

If said geo is gone, wouldn't benthic be an okay option to use then? -10def/mdef....last long enough? Idk, but I'd love to use blu in delve if I could. I believe that time will come after update though.

Probably not. The reason why geo is used is because it is a unique debuff and so stacks with actual def down debuffs, dia and steps. Benthic is just another generic def down debuff though it does have -mdb too. But the minus def part wont stack with other better -def moves like say agnon

[Tennotsukai]

I never knew that Dasva, thank you!

On another note, they didn't fix the broken spells but they did at least acknowledge those issues are existing. This is a proud day to be a blu :)

[Tennotsukai]

So if said drg was gone, blu's def down would be best generic? Obviously after tourbillion is fixed, that will be. steps + Dia(w/e) + Frailty + generic(blu)? ...or is there a brd or other job debuff I'm not thinking of...? With this information now, how different is dmg output from 10% to 35% def down? Worth the time?

Finally found a pretty good spot on ffxivpro forums explaining stackable def down effects.

[Okipuit]

Greetings,

We’ve been seeing some comments that the newly added blue magic spells are slightly on the expensive side, as a lot of them cost 6 blue magic points. The reason for this is that setting only one spell will yield special job traits. (This includes the stats that each spell gives as well.)

For example, Nature’s Meditation gives accuracy bonus and Embalming Earth gives attack bonus.

Please understand, however, that this does not mean we will never be making adjustments moving forward.

[Ophannus]

The spells aren't bad per se, it's just that they're not good enough or useful enough to replace spells that are absolutely necessary to give Dual Wield III, Triple Attack and Auto Refresh. Setting those 3 traits alone already eats up ~45 points, then we have utility spells i.e Animating Wail and Battery Charge leaving us with a couple measly points left over to set maybe one new spell. To be honest, BLU should be given more Blue Points maybe ~80ish and maybe 5 new slots. If that's not possible, can we at least see a wide-spread decrease in points for all older spells?

The Blue Magic Set Points for all previous spells should be reduced to:
5->3
4->3
3->2
2->1

New spells should be changed to the following:
6->5

If a RDM or SCH can have 80ish spells why must BLU only be able to set 20? Can we at least set 30 or maybe 40? It would make BLU a lot more useful given our huge spell repetoire and it wouldn't detract from BLU being a job that changes its role on the fly at all. It's just that other jobs are given new spells and JA without having to give something up. BLUs have to decide to give up something to use the new spells and generally only like 1 of them is sort of useful, the others are lackluster AoE magic damage which BLUs don't really use anymore. The additional effects are nice but not great enough to warrant using them over spells that grant more useful things like Dual Wield III traits or Triple Attack+5% trait.

[Pug]

I like the potent spell + embedded trait, but 6 points really reduces your options from the max number of spells I'm already limited to.

There are a variety of situations where a BLU needs quick access to a spell they do not already have set:

* Day of Week changes rolling through your time in Abyssea
* VoidWatch Procs
* General Battle changes (having dark sleep set, but need light sleep as an example)

I see a simple solution:

Job Ability

"Whisper of the Azure"

90 Second delay (about the same time as manually setting a spell, assuming you knew exactly what you'd take out, and put in to cast the desired spell without destroying your normal spell/trait setups)

Provides access to all unset spells (Does not reward any jobs traits or stat enhancements of those spells) until the effect wears off (30 seconds), or a Blue magic spell is cast.