Curiosity regarding Bayld weapons...

[Hayward]

With some exceptions, Bayld weapons seem helpful in bridging the gap some between Magian weapons and Delve weapons (again, I'd steer clear of the horn and shield until this next update to see what happens).

One thing that has me curious is that the Swords (at least the Forefront version) seems to leave Paladins out entirely. Call me crazy, but I'd like to think a Level 106 Sword would be more than welcome for a player who doesn't have the patience, gil, or connections to get an Almace.

What gives, S-E?

[Demon6324236]

http://www.bg-wiki.com/images/b/b8/Forefront_Blade_description.png
This weapon leaves out 2 of the primary sword users, PLD, and RDM, which I agree I do not understand. It would be nice to know why exactly. Going simply by a weapons looks is a stupid design choice...

[Tsukino_Kaji]

It's a falcion, that's standard.

[Hayward]

Before anyone mentions it, no, the Coalition Blade is quite an insufficient alternative to Shikargars of any flavor.

[Demon6324236]

It's a falcion, that's standard.At this point, the type of weapon or armor should mean nothing really, since they seem to just throw random designs everywhere. Why is this a falcion while the other wasn't for instance? Its random, a coin toss, why are design choices left to that kind of thing?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

At this point, the type of weapon or armor should mean nothing really, since they seem to just throw random designs everywhere. Why is this a falcion while the other wasn't for instance? Its random, a coin toss, why are design choices left to that kind of thing?On that point, blu should be on ridill.

[Demon6324236]

While I see no problems with BLU being on that weapon, its admittedly different in this case. At least with Ridill it was only a single weapon, not a series of weapons, in this case its a series of weapons which have 1 in each category, however, due to weapon designs some jobs are left out, which makes no sense in the end. Its trying to include every weapon, but exclude some jobs from their weapons, which is stupidly nonsensical...

[Daemon]

While I see no problems with BLU being on that weapon, its admittedly different in this case. At least with Ridill it was only a single weapon, not a series of weapons, in this case its a series of weapons which have 1 in each category, however, due to weapon designs some jobs are left out, which makes no sense in the end. Its trying to include every weapon, but exclude some jobs from their weapons, which is stupidly nonsensical...

Was BLU mage implemented before or after Ridill?

[Fynlar]

Weapon subtypes shouldn't mean anything at this point, no.

The plasm polearm is a trident that's DRG only, which is ridiculous. If it was going to be DRG only, it should have been a lance.

[Demon6324236]

Was BLU mage implemented before or after Ridill?After, though it doesn't matter really.

[Babekeke]

Has anyone tried using a bayld weapon in delve, to determine whether or not the Reive: status applies in delve as well as in reives, similar to how Assault: gear applies in salvage as well as just assaults?

[Daemon]

After, though it doesn't matter really.

Well the reason why I asked. SE left Scholar out from Sky augmented gear intentionally. Although at this point of the game I stills think we should be placed on Aquarian gear. Geomancer was placed on it.

As for the topic, I'm puzzled as to why RDM wasn't placed on Forefront blade yet we are allowed to purchase and upgrade Halachuinic sword.

Halachuinic Sword
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Halachuinic_Sword
DMG:104 Delay:228 Accuracy+16 Attack+15
BLU/BRD/BST/COR/DRG/DRK/NIN/PLD/RDM/RNG/RUN/THF/WAR

[OmnysValefor]

@ Daemon

COR is on Joyeuse, a weapon that predates the job (as is dnc), but the purpose of the two swords are similar and COR/BLU are from the same expansion.

A better example of the lack of rhyme or reason is Warrior not being on either Bereaver or Senbaak.

[Umichi]

It's a falcion, that's standard.

I concur good sir.

[Renaissance2K]

Well the reason why I asked. SE left Scholar out from Sky augmented gear intentionally. Although at this point of the game I stills think we should be placed on Aquarian gear. Geomancer was placed on it.
I'm currently leveling BLU, and there's a stockpile of Honey Wines accumulating, so I did some research into why BLU was not on Ridill.

From what I understand (though it's all heresay, admittedly), BLU was enormously popular when it was first released, which happen to coincide with the time that the three kings were being monopolized by RMT and the like. Square was afraid that an influx of BLUs wanting the sword would only make that situation worse, as the demand would get even worse.

That said, since Fafnir can be popped now, they should really do something about that.

Back on topic: if PLD can't use the sword because it's a curved blade, they should have created another Forefront weapon that isn't. Plain and simple.

[Morier]

I'm currently leveling BLU, and there's a stockpile of Honey Wines accumulating, so I did some research into why BLU was not on Ridill.

From what I understand (though it's all heresay, admittedly), BLU was enormously popular when it was first released, which happen to coincide with the time that the three kings were being monopolized by RMT and the like. Square was afraid that an influx of BLUs wanting the sword would only make that situation worse, as the demand would get even worse.

That said, since Fafnir can be popped now, they should really do something about that.

Back on topic: if PLD can't use the sword because it's a curved blade, they should have created another Forefront weapon that isn't. Plain and simple.

lol@all this. Halachuinic Sword
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Halachuinic_Sword
DMG:104 Delay:228 Accuracy+16 Attack+15
BLU/BRD/BST/COR/DRG/DRK/NIN/PLD/RDM/RNG/RUN/THF/WAR get that for pld, easy even if you just shard farm.

[Fynlar]

lol@all this. Halachuinic Sword
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Halachuinic_Sword
DMG:104 Delay:228 Accuracy+16 Attack+15
BLU/BRD/BST/COR/DRG/DRK/NIN/PLD/RDM/RNG/RUN/THF/WAR get that for pld, easy even if you just shard farm.

It's not like you need a delve nm win to buy this or anything

[Kristal]

http://www.bg-wiki.com/images/b/b8/Forefront_Blade_description.png
This weapon leaves out 2 of the primary sword users, PLD, and RDM, which I agree I do not understand. It would be nice to know why exactly. Going simply by a weapons looks is a stupid design choice...

Perhaps SE is sharing the views of most players? PLD doesn't need a sword, just Ochain, and RDM is a pure mage in the new world order so lolmeleeRDM.
Or something.. PUP isn't on Buremte Gloves, but RDM is.. I'm so confused...

[Trumpy]

I was just waiting for them to make a bayld dagger that dnc cant wear since there is the one type they never put dnc on. not puttin pld on a sword is definately odd. Just like givin all those dark knights shields, that you see them wearing all the time everywhere.

[Demon6324236]

Its funny people keep bringing up Hala, yay, 1 sword. Might I ask a question? For a RDM/NIN or PLD/NIN, what the hell are you going to offhand!? -_-;

Also, are you so dense you fail to understand the underline issue that certain jobs are getting screwed out of a series of weapons thanks to people who thought this would should be a certain kinda sword, randomly, and they think they must design it so that only certain jobs can be on those certain kind of blades? At least in the case of some of them, like Joytoy, it makes sense, because it is a piercing weapon, a BLU does not use those so far as I know, but when it comes to this, its a sword, its still sharp, still slashing, still a sword, why is it so impossible for PLDs to know how to wield it?

[Riggs]

funny my impression of these weapons are that they are mostly useless, perhaps if the reive damage was the normal damage they might be worth some thing but out side i think i'll stick with my mandau

[Fynlar]

Its funny people keep bringing up Hala, yay, 1 sword. Might I ask a question? For a RDM/NIN or PLD/NIN, what the hell are you going to offhand!? -_-;

Idk about RDM, but if you still see PLD/NINs these days they are probably stuck in a 2006 time warp

[Umichi]

http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Camatlatia?

[Traxus]

It's a falcion, that's standard.

They've mostly ignored those standards post 75 thou. Blu can wear all sorts of 'heavy' sword types it wouldn't have been able to at 75, shikargar, almace, naakul swords, etc.

The skirmish sword is also a hofud curved sword model, which was exclusive to war/drk/blu in it's three previous implementations, but is equippable by rdm/pld/blu this time, I imagine because gameplay balance was a priority over aesthetics/lore/whatever.

The bayld falchion is a contradiction to post-75 standards if anything.

[Umichi]

They've mostly ignored those standards post 75 thou. Blu can wear all sorts of 'heavy' sword types it wouldn't have been able to at 75, shikargar, almace, naakul swords, etc.

The skirmish sword is also a hofud curved sword model, which was exclusive to war/drk/blu in it's three previous implementations, but is equippable by rdm/pld/blu this time, I imagine because gameplay balance was a priority over aesthetics/lore/whatever.

The bayld falchion is a contradiction to post-75 standards if anything.

A longsword, another longsword, and most of naakul swords are longswords... plus all of them are created or obtained by doing epic things.... or magic... why wouldn't they be able to?

[Traxus]

Blu couldn't use longswords at 75, but now they can, that's my point. For example:

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Spatha
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Bee_Spatha
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Longsword
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Gluttony_Sword
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Ruler
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Company_Sword
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Hrotti

etc. blu could equip exactly 0 longswords at 75 until fragarach came around at the tail end of WoTG. They have been on (nearly?) all longswords since, for gameplay balance reasons. That's why it's strange rdm/pld can't equip the bayld falchion, especially since they CAN equip the curved sword from skirmish.

[OmnysValefor]

Okay, while DPSing in forefront weapons likely means you won't get a spot in most groups--

It is INTENDED that they be starter gear. As starter gear, they should be available to the jobs that use them most, rather than the jobs that rarely use them and there's no reason to offhand a weapon that you have such low skill in when there's nothing special about the weapon.

Forefront weapons are included in the coming ilvl stat change, right? It does kinda set back "newbie" or "casual" rdms or plds from the stuff they want to be doing, or need to be doing. Newbie rdms trying to gear need to get bayld, and the best way to do that is damage.

Idk why people always have to look at things from their perspective only. To be honest, none of these weapons matter or have ever mattered to me, but some people play at a level of activity, or are progressing through it, that they are ideal for. Tojil's sword is RDM/PLD/BLU, and that's fine, because those are the main sword users. High end gear being exclusive has reason to it. Starter weapons should be for all jobs with the skill, and at least, the jobs that would benefit most. DRKs and NINs are that sad when a sword doesn't have their jobs on it.

[Demon6324236]

Idk about RDM, but if you still see PLD/NINs these days they are probably stuck in a 2006 time warpSome people like to use their jobs as a DD, for instance I do RDM/NIN, and I know some PLDs who do PLD/NIN or PLD/DNC in order to dual wield their swords. The point was that in the end, one of our best options for such a thing, was taken away because they wanted to make a sword curvy rather than straight, and somehow that effects my RDMs ability to hold it in his hands when a moogle casts some magic on him to change his job.

[Umichi]

Some people like to use their jobs as a DD, for instance I do RDM/NIN, and I know some PLDs who do PLD/NIN or PLD/DNC in order to dual wield their swords. The point was that in the end, one of our best options for such a thing, was taken away because they wanted to make a sword curvy rather than straight, and somehow that effects my RDMs ability to hold it in his hands when a moogle casts some magic on him to change his job.

as to the past weapons they were introduced prior to blu.... SE has never added jobs to gear they've introduced prior to a new job for the most part unless it was absolutely neccesary. as to the comment I qouted... then you don't understand FF as a series and where XI gets it's roots from...

[Daemon]

I say screw Ridill! It's about time SE gives us a new occ attack sword with better stats.

[Traxus]

as to the past weapons they were introduced prior to blu.... SE has never added jobs to gear they've introduced prior to a new job for the most part unless it was absolutely neccesary..

Yes they have lol, what are you even talking about? When toau came out, blu was added to virtually all old short/curved swords, light melee armor, scalemail, a fair amount of mage armor, homam, nashira, etc. Blu did not get access to longswords/heavy swords that came out after toau release either, until fragarach. Examples:

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Ruler
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Kaskara
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Hauteclaire

Blu was thematically not supposed to use heavy swords, until they dropped the idea in wotg/abyssea, so blu could share weapons with other primary sword users.

[Umichi]

yeah armor is a given for getting new jobs added to them when a new job comes out.... shortswords are not longswords are they? And Fragarach doesn't look like a longsword... I wonder if it is classified as one.


Abyssea is an alternate dimension to our own... the rules of the game do not apply there.... besides can you imagine creating a whole seperate set paths just for one job?

[Demon6324236]

then you don't understand FF as a series and where XI gets it's roots from...I understand perfectly, but in most cases it makes a lot more sense. Let me take FFX for instance. Tidus is skilled with a sword, he can wield all kinds of swords, but only swords because its what he knows how to use. Now, if he picked up a ball, he could not use it, and if Wakka picked up a sword, he could not use that, but that's because they are not skilled with those as weapons, if they swapped, they could, because its what they know how to use. Looking at FFXI, very different story, unlike almost any other FF game, your character can change jobs on a whim by going to your house, but, unlike other games, you magically forget how to use a weapon class once you change to a different job. That to an extent I can understand, but different subclasses inside of classes of a weapon you know how to use is a bit extensive, and when it comes to a case like this, where its supposed to be a certain tier of gear for each class of weapon in the game such as forefront, its stupid to limit the access of jobs to it in a way that excludes the primary users of that weapon class. That would be like making the forefront club be PLD only, or making the forefront GS WAR & PLD only while excluding DRK & RUN. Its not good design. I understand the previous games, I know how they worked, and in the end they most of the time made sense, but this game differs greatly from any I have played in that respect.