possible oversight with the new ilvl system?

[Doombringer]

so i was checking out the new gear from the test server here. (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/117087-Translated-Gear-Take-these-for-granite?p=5816300&viewfull=1#post5816300) and i noticed that a lot of these new weapons have some pretty impressive stats. which is great, generally.

but i think i may have spotted a flaw here. some new and improved staves and clubs give massive bonus' to magic accuracy. but none of the other weapons do. could this not have dramatic ramifications for jobs like drk, blu, rdm, nin, and maybe even cor?

a dark knight casting drain without a staff is "down" about 30 magic accuracy by not swapping his weapon. with these new staves in play he would effectively be "down" up to 180 magic accuracy. now it is debatable just how much a drk REALLY relies on his spells, but if the magic acc from the new weapons becomes the new standard then there will be no debate. they'll just stop casting anything with an accuracy check.

this same concern extends to any job that might find itself doing anything that relies on magic accuracy, while using anything other than a club or stave. physical blue magic should be fine, but magical blue magic will be devastated. i'm not a corsair, but i know some of their quick draws use magic accuracy. ninja? could easily end up highly boned. and i'm not here to debate the efficacy of meleerdm, i'm just saying this could kill it.

there may be other issues i'm not seeing myself. is flash resistable? because if it is, add paladin to the list? how deep does this change go, and how do we fix it? would it be game breaking if we just also threw a bunch of magic acc on other weapons?

[Fermion]

Anywhere 150 or more magic accuracy will be needed, RDM won't be meleeing anyway.

In a highly buffed situation, DRK would lose tons of DoT casting spells.

In the case of PLD, flash is nothing more than a hate tool at this point.

When has BLU ever been invited for their magical blue magic in top tier content?

I see this as a good thing. Pure mages should always have an advantage in their respective forms of magic. That's the price DRKs, PLDs, BLUs or any melee/mage hybrid must pay for being hybrids.

[Doombringer]

most of what you said is right, but it all assumes top tier CONTENT. i'm concerned that this stuff will not be top tier gear forever, eventually becoming the new normal and leaving gaping holes in these jobs when they go back to do lower tier content.

SE did say this is how we level up now, so i don't think i'm too far off base looking forward.

[Metaking]

invited only for it(magic) never but generally (75era) blu/thf for frightful roar and respectable spike dmg was a better use of slot than drg for there def down, but yea bringing that up, is just splitting hairs.

anyhow, blu seems to be getting some of the macc thx to clubs, got to play with Tamaxchi(macc +90) and its actually quite an amazing weapon on blu, cant wait to see its big brother in action. Do wish i understood what the magic dmg + was doing on it better i mean come on 1.3k flash nova.... that's almost useful i mean compared to its normal 300 dmg >.>;

[Edyth]

so i was checking out the new gear from the test server here. (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/117087-Translated-Gear-Take-these-for-granite?p=5816300&viewfull=1#post5816300) and i noticed that a lot of these new weapons have some pretty impressive stats. which is great, generally.

but i think i may have spotted a flaw here. some new and improved staves and clubs give massive bonus' to magic accuracy. but none of the other weapons do. could this not have dramatic ramifications for jobs like drk, blu, rdm, and maybe even cor?

a dark knight casting drain without a staff is "down" about 30 magic accuracy by not swapping his weapon. with these new staves in play he would effectively be "down" up to 180 magic accuracy. now it is debatable just how much a drk REALLY relies on his spells, but if the magic acc from the new weapons becomes the new standard then there will be no debate. they'll just stop casting anything with an accuracy check.

this same concern extends to any job that might find itself doing anything that relies on magic accuracy, while using anything other than a club or stave. physical blue magic should be fine, but magical blue magic will be devastated. i'm not a corsair, but i know some of their quick draws use magic accuracy. and i'm not here to debate the efficacy of meleerdm, i'm just saying this could kill it.

there may be other issues i'm not seeing myself. is flash resistable? because if it is, add paladin to the list? how deep does this change go, and how do we fix it? would it be game breaking if we just also threw a bunch of magic acc on other weapons?

I see what you're saying. If these weapons become the required standard to use spells effectively, jobs like DRK and BLU will be screwed for magical effectiveness. Post liked.

[OmnysValefor]

there may be other issues i'm not seeing myself. is flash resistable? because if it is, add paladin to the list? how deep does this change go, and how do we fix it? would it be game breaking if we just also threw a bunch of magic acc on other weapons?

Flash is indeed resistible. Like stun, it's mostly only NM's that do it, and less NMs resist flash.

Also, no mention of nin, at all? Nins enfeebles are more about solo and extremely lowman but this will be an issue for them as well.

Edit: I should point out that a resisted flash has the same enmity as a fully-unresisted one. Same goes for stun and all spells. That, if you don't know, is why rdm/nin, pld/rdm, and nin/drk worked as tanks, until the adjusted the enmity of a lot of spells. However, I've used pld/drk recently and a stun/flash rotation is about the strongest hate a tank is going to get, I think.

[Doombringer]

bam, yes, nin. how did i forget that. i'm puttin' that in.

[OmnysValefor]

I love some of the new gear, but it is surprising to me that they didn't choose to just keep acc/eva magic acc/eva at 99 (or whatever level 99's content bosses are) levels.

[Rwolf]

I agree with the OP. These jobs are hybrids for a reason, because they sacrifice complete melee specialism in order to cast magic. So it's only natural that some of these weapons who only have hybrid (magic/melee) jobs should have magical boosting stats as well.

While I agree with full mage jobs having higher magic stats than hybrids, they still deserve something. They added a lot of STR, DEX, attack, accuracy and haste to mage gear in this new change and have since Seekers of Adoulin.

So if the argument is magic bonuses are for full mages only, then take away all forms of melee stats on full mage gear. Because by that logic you should never be meleeing as a mage. Not that I want or think, just proving a point how ludicrous that is.

The point is hybrids are a blend and should well.. have hybrid weapons and armor. I don't see how that doesn't make complete sense. It is not even a matter of who is the better mage because hybrids aren't and shouldn't be. The times in the past hybrids have been chosen over full mages, have to do with problems in other areas of FFXI's battle mechanics and should not penalize a job for being what it is.

[Lithera]

I agree wholeheartedly. The hybrid jobs pay their price in many ways Already with less potent or shorter duration debuffs, lower M value nukes, no access to higher tier nukes, diminished MP pools etc. Therefore the balance between full Mage and hybrid is already estaished. To deny the hybrids m.acc and/or MAB on gear just serves to toss out that balance and effectively nerf the jobs. May as well strip Burst Affinity off BLU and remove all the magic spells.

[Fermion]

While I agree with full mage jobs having higher magic stats than hybrids, they still deserve something. They added a lot of STR, DEX, attack, accuracy and haste to mage gear in this new change and have since Seekers of Adoulin.

None of those stats will have mages busting out Shattersouls on Top Tier content.



So if the argument is magic bonuses are for full mages only, then take away all forms of melee stats on full mage gear. Because by that logic you should never be meleeing as a mage. Not that I want or think, just proving a point how ludicrous that is.

Taking those stats off mage gear would have absolutely no effect on Top Tier content.


The point is hybrids are a blend and should well.. have hybrid weapons and armor. I don't see how that doesn't make complete sense. It is not even a matter of who is the better mage because hybrids aren't and shouldn't be. The times in the past hybrids have been chosen over full mages, have to do with problems in other areas of FFXI's battle mechanics and should not penalize a job for being what it is.

You've totally missed my point. The context I was talking about was Top Tier content. Nothing else.

I agree that there should be some weaker magic accuracy hybrid weapons (never said they shouldn't exist, my context was Top Tier content though). But I don't want to see hybrids dual-wielding a +188 and +150 magic accuracy weapons. Since magic accuracy is all inclusive, unlike combat skill, that's 338 magic accuracy in the weapon slot alone. You'd probably be able to land enfeebles from /RDM with that much accuracy. It's easy to extrapolate that you'd be insta-capped on everything in the game. I'm sure SE designed the magic evasion of NMs without taking dual-wielding into account, since staff and clubs are on equal levels.

[Alpheus]

But I don't want to see hybrids dual-wielding a +188 and +150 magic accuracy weapons. Since magic accuracy is all inclusive, unlike combat skill, that's 338 magic accuracy in the weapon slot alone. You'd probably be able to land enfeebles from /RDM with that much accuracy. It's easy to extrapolate that you'd be insta-capped on everything in the game. I'm sure SE designed the magic evasion of NMs without taking dual-wielding into account, since staff and clubs are on equal levels.

Wouldn't that just mean mages who have to enfeeble just got more incentive to go a subjob that allows dual wield?
The 3 mages who would enfeeble anything would be GEO SCH and RDM. RDM gets JSE exclusive stuff to make enfeebles last longer, SCHs would be too busy stunning anything to toss a paralyze or what have you and a GEO is actually required to stand near the mob. That last part is important because SE is adding a mechanic where ilvl weapons with +skill on them will affect how many shadows AoE attacks absorb which would give said GEO incentive to go /nin anyway once that update goes live. WHM is excluded since its subjob requires it be rdm or sch for MP staying power, BRDs dont have access to m.acc clubs and any m.acc 1handed weapons would be swords and katanas so BRD is out. BLM can benefit but you'd have to find a use for BLM first.

Oh and GEO was included despite being similar to WHM in that their MP sustainability comes from sub because GEOs tend to be in the same party as a RDM who can refresh them. So yes I think pure mages would be just fine even with dual wield being a factor.

[Trumpy]

I was kinda curious why only magic accuracy was added as well as magic attack bonus (also magic damage now) to a lot of these staves or clubs but no actual elemental, enfeeble, divine, or blue magic skill for example were added. I mean they added combat skills to simulate job level growth, but no magical skill. Is magical accuracy enough?

[Fermion]

Wouldn't that just mean mages who have to enfeeble just got more incentive to go a subjob that allows dual wield?

That would effectively destroy SCH (it's tied to /RDM or /BLM). WHM as you said, needs /RDM or /SCH. The only mage that would benefit would be RDM.


So yes I think pure mages would be just fine even with dual wield being a factor.

You must be a melee only character. It seems you have no idea how broken that would be. Terrible idea. Like I said, hybrids should have weaker magic accuracy options. But they should in no way be at the level of mage jobs. Why is that so hard to accept?

Look at it this way. /RDM offers 150 enfeebling magic. With 338 more, that brings you to 488 magic accuracy. Which only takes a few more magic accuracy pieces to bring you to 500 enfeebling magic accuracy...ON ANY JOB with dual wield. How is that in any way, excuse my rudeness, not completely and utterly stupid? ???/RDM dual wielding magic accuracy swords would be more accurate than SCH/RDM (which NEEDS /RDM for enfeebles in the first place). See how crazy it sounds?

[Doombringer]

i suppose this hits the same issue that SE was worried about with adding melee stats to new weapons. the bonus' need to be large to make up the power gap of us not being able to ding lvl 100+, but dual wield can throw it for a loop.

so just stacking magic acc may not work, but i think we all agree that SOMETHING needs to be done.

[Rwolf]

None of those stats will have mages busting out Shattersouls on Top Tier content.

Taking those stats off mage gear would have absolutely no effect on Top Tier content.

It doesn't matter Fermion, you missed the point completely. First, it was an example and I explained I don't even feel that way. It was an inverted example based on the logic of others who have advocated against hybrids getting hybrid stats because they aren't a full mage. If you didn't make the comment, then don't create a rebuttal. You're taking a stance and debating with yourself.


You've totally missed my point. The context I was talking about was Top Tier content. Nothing else.

I agree that there should be some weaker magic accuracy hybrid weapons (never said they shouldn't exist, my context was Top Tier content though). But I don't want to see hybrids dual-wielding a +188 and +150 magic accuracy weapons. Since magic accuracy is all inclusive, unlike combat skill, that's 338 magic accuracy in the weapon slot alone. You'd probably be able to land enfeebles from /RDM with that much accuracy. It's easy to extrapolate that you'd be insta-capped on everything in the game. I'm sure SE designed the magic evasion of NMs without taking dual-wielding into account, since staff and clubs are on equal levels.

I think you're the one who is missing the point. No where in the OP did he mention current top tier content. Also no one requested some exaggerated amount like dual wielding +150 magic accuracy weapons. The OP was stating that given full mages are getting such a huge amount of stats now. Where is the lower amount for hybrid weapons. A lot of the new clubs and staves have both magical and melee stats on them. Hence the OP and others including myself are saying "Ok, that's well and good but where are the hybrid stats on hybrid jobs?"

By throwing out huge massive numbers of +338 magic accuracy and going over the top with it. You're not only missing the point completely, you're twisting the request of the OP and agreeing players. Dial back the negative and focus on positive.

Examples:
- Provide your opinion on how much magic accuracy you think is appropriate.
- Provide ideas of how it can be constrained to not be abused with dual wield or more important land desirable buffs from another job.

Either one of those is better than lacing an entire post in "NO's", "you don't understand", and "overpowered". Cool down and communicate.

In my opinion and this is generally speaking not focused on replying to Fermion. Hybrid jobs should have weapons are hybrid weapons. There is no foreseeable stats that conflict with each other to make a job "overpowered". The only job that even remotely simultaneously uses physical and magical stats is Blue Mage. The only thing they would get out of it is magic accuracy, which they already have copious amount of and it still hasn't made a huge difference.

[OmnysValefor]

i suppose this hits the same issue that SE was worried about with adding melee stats to new weapons. the bonus' need to be large to make up the power gap of us not being able to ding lvl 100+, but dual wield can throw it for a loop.

so just stacking magic acc may not work, but i think we all agree that SOMETHING needs to be done.

Everyone has wondered why these stats weren't just latent effects. Obviously, they've been able to do slot-specific latents for a long long time.

[Metaking]

well even with the item changes only 2 weapons se seems to have planed for macc for dw's
Mondaha Cudgel
DMG:130 Delay:340
MP+30 INT+5 MND+10
Accuracy+18 Magic Accuracy+58
Club skill+153 Parrying skill+153

and tamaxchi macc +90 for a total of 148(161[macc path on club])) macc which would mean slightly more macc than the updated soothsayer (135[148]) but considerably less than the updated Atinian Staff (180). Mind you the club options seem like they will stay slightly Superior Macc wise, but are set up to easily lose for pure magical DMG output, which only helps blu and rdm out, nin cor and drk i have no idea what se would do other than make a light dd set of gear that's stated like heavy mage gear >.>; i mean be a real shame if drks stop being able to steal tp or buff up there hp before soul eater.

[Mirage]

Item levels for character growth is a terrible idea in general. It would have been much better to just have added another merit category that would let you increase your character's powers dramatically, while also requiring lulz amounts of exp (or even special SoA "exp", if they want to keep all 99+ character progression within SoA, like they currently are doing with item levels.)

[Alpheus]

That would effectively destroy SCH (it's tied to /RDM or /BLM). WHM as you said, needs /RDM or /SCH. The only mage that would benefit would be RDM.

You must be a melee only character. It seems you have no idea how broken that would be. Terrible idea. Like I said, hybrids should have weaker magic accuracy options. But they should in no way be at the level of mage jobs. Why is that so hard to accept?

Look at it this way. /RDM offers 150 enfeebling magic. With 338 more, that brings you to 488 magic accuracy. Which only takes a few more magic accuracy pieces to bring you to 500 enfeebling magic accuracy...ON ANY JOB with dual wield. How is that in any way, excuse my rudeness, not completely and utterly stupid? ???/RDM dual wielding magic accuracy swords would be more accurate than SCH/RDM (which NEEDS /RDM for enfeebles in the first place). See how crazy it sounds?

Sounds like you have issue with the fact that growth is coming from gear, which as a WHM main I do as well. Since in that style of system its far more easier to balance around melee jobs than mages. Why? Because the whole damn point of of growth through gear is to get away from lateral upgrades and SE has shown that they only seem able to create mage gear when it's laterally implemented. I'll admit yes I should have excluded SCH too since their sub is tied to stunning so it's blm or gtfo for them.

In my examples I was simply talking about Magic Accuracy and your greatest problem in your example (a situation you don't want to see happen) seems to be about +skill to enfeebling on weapons or what have you and yes that's a good point....except that's NOT what they're doing. They can't do it because adding magic +skill would make tons and tons of lateral niche equips for mages/hybrids which would be beneficial for each job involved had they an item catered to them in such a way; except SE has stated they're in the business of not doing such things. This is evident by all the Magic Evasion on gear instead of say a crapload of boosts to elemental resistance values element by element. They're making gear with huge gains with the lowest common denominator that can be applied across as many jobs as possible for every piece. Minus exceptions like Manibhozo hands but after the update if you R15 them then tada they're awesome melee hands too.

That's totally fine though to have awesome gear with awesome stats that can be equally used awesomely by as many jobs as possible. The giant flaw is that you can't do that with mages, well alright you can but SE has shown that they can't or are willing to phone it in so there isn't much of a difference there.

Disclaimer: I'm aware that a shitload of M.Acc would circumvent quite a bit of the lack of a specific magic +skill stat on a weapon but as has been repeated throughout the thread, we're talking about hybrid stats and proportional amounts on said weapons. To add to this all M.EVA was raised on both PC and enemy alike so an insane amount of magic accuracy might actually be needed. If an insane amount is needed more than likely the go to jobs for such tasks before the necessity was implemented will be in a much better position after the stakes and capabilities are both raised.



You must be a melee only character.
Oh almost forgot about this. Don't talk to me like you know me. Don't presume to know me.

[Rwolf]

Item levels for character growth is a terrible idea in general. It would have been much better to just have added another merit category that would let you increase your character's powers dramatically, while also requiring lulz amounts of exp (or even special SoA "exp", if they want to keep all 99+ character progression within SoA, like they currently are doing with item levels.)

This.

I liked and agree wholeheartedly that it should have just been a series of merit expansions to increase job levels. It would sucked up a lot less development time than having to go through every weapon and then balance the ones for multiple jobs. And if they wanted a change from exp, it could be that doing SoA content unlocks levels of the merits which you have to fill in with EXP.

[hiko]

Item levels for character growth is a terrible idea in general. It would have been much better to just have added another merit category that would let you increase your character's powers dramatically, while also requiring lulz amounts of exp (or even special SoA "exp", if they want to keep all 99+ character progression within SoA, like they currently are doing with item levels.)
create two new "merit" categories, 1st use bayld, second plasm.
merits need some achievement to be unlocked (WR, delve KIs...)

[Stompa]

Anywhere 150 or more magic accuracy will be needed, RDM won't be meleeing anyway.

In a highly buffed situation, DRK would lose tons of DoT casting spells.

In the case of PLD, flash is nothing more than a hate tool at this point.

When has BLU ever been invited for their magical blue magic in top tier content?

I see this as a good thing. Pure mages should always have an advantage in their respective forms of magic. That's the price DRKs, PLDs, BLUs or any melee/mage hybrid must pay for being hybrids.

On the subject of PLD vs. pure mages, SE should give mages an A Rating in staves, and knock paladin from an A Rating to a B- rating. Its absurd that mage jobs who wield staves all day long every day, would realistically have a C rating while the only staff A goes to Paladin - a job whose primary requisite is the use of sword+shield which obviously can't be done with a staff. When SCH was released with the whole 'school of martial theory' and 'battlemage' type of fanfare, then SE gave SCH a C+ staff rating, completely dwarfed by the paladin's A rating despite the fact pld is a shield job. For extra bonus lols, paladin with their only staff A rating in the game, can not equip any empy or magian staves, while the jobs than can equip those staves have B~C ratings.
Re; macc I can see why DRK should get some added macc on a weapon, but its not as important as for the backline jobs.

[Karah]

One thing I haven't seen anyone mention in all this ILVL garbage.

Have we all forgotten Encumbrance? For a while there SE made EVERY enemy with some form of encumbrance.

Yeah you're level 119 with your gear on, and you can survive just fine, then the enemy knocks your clothes off and kills you in one hit, because now, you're only level 99.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. How can ANYONE think that leveling via gear is a good idea. It's the stupidest god d*mn thing I've ever heard of in my entire life.

[Camate]

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the magic accuracy problems that jobs such as ninja, blue mage, and dark knight can encounter when battling the high-level monsters in Adoulin content. They are currently looking to see if they are able to boost magical accuracy through “combat skill+” values. Once we have some more information we will be sure to let you all know. :)

[Lotto]

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the magic accuracy problems that jobs such as ninja, blue mage, and dark knight can encounter when battling the high-level monsters in Adoulin content. They are currently looking to see if they are able to boost magical accuracy through “combat skill+” values. Once we have some more information we will be sure to let you all know. :)

See you next year for more information then.

[Mirage]

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the magic accuracy problems that jobs such as ninja, blue mage, and dark knight can encounter when battling the high-level monsters in Adoulin content. They are currently looking to see if they are able to boost magical accuracy through “combat skill+” values. Once we have some more information we will be sure to let you all know. :)

No. Tell them to let us "level up" through new merit categories instead. Stop this item level nonsense before it is too late.

[Daemon]

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the magic accuracy problems that jobs such as ninja, blue mage, and dark knight can encounter when battling the high-level monsters in Adoulin content. They are currently looking to see if they are able to boost magical accuracy through “combat skill+” values. Once we have some more information we will be sure to let you all know. :)

Can you please give us more magic skill merits or separate universal magic skill from job specific magic skill? This is the reason many of us cannot decide what to merit. Especially for those who play RDM, BLM, and then NIN, BLU, GEO SMN etc.

32 merit points total when 16 points would be used by those placing merits on jobs like Geomancer: Geomancy and handbell to make the job reach full potential does not leave us much for the other magic skills we need. Thank you.

When I say Universal I mean Magic skills that other jobs can share and benefit like Enhancing, Enfeebling, Elemental.

Example:Geomancer, Black mage, Redmage can share elemental, enfeebling and enhancing.

Where as Job specific would be Blue Magic Skill only benefits blue mage.

[Louispv]

One thing I haven't seen anyone mention in all this ILVL garbage.

Have we all forgotten Encumbrance? For a while there SE made EVERY enemy with some form of encumbrance.

Yeah you're level 119 with your gear on, and you can survive just fine, then the enemy knocks your clothes off and kills you in one hit, because now, you're only level 99.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. How can ANYONE think that leveling via gear is a good idea. It's the stupidest god d*mn thing I've ever heard of in my entire life.

It's especially retarded for BST and DRG. Their pets levels are base don item level of their weapons, and change dynamically and drastically as the weapon changes. (Literally dropping from level 114 to 99 if you take your weapon off) Now take for example, Velk, which fill 3 whole zones of the expansion. They have a move that removes your Weapons and keep you from equipping them again. So BST and DRG just can't fucking fight those enemies at all because you will never be above level 99 when encountering them...

[Zumi]

I don't get all this ilvl complaining. It seems to work fine to me. Do you guys want there to never been any new gear or weapons and just have the same old stuff be the best forever?

[Tennotsukai]

Camate, please ask dev's to also look into blu spell dmg. Tests with the new club shows that the increase to blu spell dmg is still no where on par with the new weapons. Also...again....Tourbillion & Barbed Crescent: You should know what I mean ;)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the magic accuracy problems that jobs such as ninja, blue mage, and dark knight can encounter when battling the high-level monsters in Adoulin content. They are currently looking to see if they are able to boost magical accuracy through “combat skill+” values. Once we have some more information we will be sure to let you all know. :)You did good making smn relevant, not you need to do the same for nin. How about Elemental: Shii spells.

[Karah]

I don't get all this ilvl complaining. It seems to work fine to me. Do you guys want there to never been any new gear or weapons and just have the same old stuff be the best forever?

That's not what I'm advocating at all, but leveling via equipment, is straight up mental patient insane. Yeah you can "call" it leveling up and add all the stats you want to it etc... but making it actually change what an enemy cons while wearing it... and as Louispv said, it COMPLETELY screws BST and (sort of DRG) its ridiculous.

We got all these (apparent) lies about "we can't do this and we can't do that because this and that ps2 limitations" yet, here they are adding 7 lines of text with 14 buffs per piece of gear.

Why the hell didn't they do the logical thing and just make level 120 instead of iLVL 120, it's a stupid idea.

[Solonuke]

So far it seems that people play loop hole jobs to get gear from Delve, skipping the entire "leveling up by getting gear" progression. Skirmish these days are only good for grabbing bayld and exit right away. Unless they add some check on what item level your gear is like in WoW, people will ignore bottom tier content and jump right onto the higher ones.

[OmnysValefor]

Hopefully they don't add that check. Higher level gear is not always better. For instance, they'd have to clone whm af2+3 legs to get whm's to take that off. My PLD hasn't gotten one single piece of tanking gear from Adoulin era besides Buremte gloves. They haven't even shown any indication of adding dt-% gear, or augment paths besides 3% on mani body and 3% on PLD cape.

There's an interesting discussion going on in the ffxiah monk community about the value of defense vs. pdt, but the higher your defense is, the harder it is to obtain enough defense to equal 1 pdt, and thus, pld may be wearing a lot of old gear for a good while.

[Futan]

You did good making smn relevant, not you need to do the same for nin. How about Elemental: Shii spells.

What would this do...? I don't see how that balances NIN at all.

What they need to do is decide on what NIN actually is(DD, tank, etc.) and build upon it. Like for example, if they decided NIN is a tank, right now NIN has no hate tools. Back in the 75 days, it was all about it's damage and whatever abilities/spells it's support gave. Since then, NIN's damage has started to fall in relation to other jobs, and spells have taken an enmity hit, Provoke seems to have been adjusted as well. So that leaves NIN with literally no way to sustain hate and thus tank.

You then factor in that it's one 'tanking ability', Yonin, is actually detrimental to anyone trying to tank anything stronger than Chalupis in Ceizak. Swapping out accuracy for enmity is... weird, since our only way to build enmity is through our accuracy. And then add on the arbitrary position requirements, and decaying boosts and it's barely even worth using on the Chapuli. So yeah...

If they wanted to make NIN a tank, they'd either have to increase it's damage potential or give it more hate tools. And that'd really be just a start. Either way, Yonin/Innin definitely could use an overhaul. At the least removing the positioning gimmick. Yonin definitely needs a bigger change for it to be an actual tanking ability though.

[OmnysValefor]

I think, in provoke's case, it couldn't keep up with with the numbers anymore. I think provoke just lost its edge.

Since the enmity update (right before the new weapons), provoke actually has considerably more relative enmity (vs. dmg/healing) than it did, it seems. It's just that it's not enough.

Tanking isn't going to matter until they address the problem that enmity cap exists and is obtainable withing a single 1hr.

Obviously, since this is something they have got to be aware of, they just don't care. The enmity update only made that more apparent.

Swapping accuracy for evasion, enmity, and ninja tool expertise is no different than Berserk/Defender or Hasso/Seigan. It's quite sensible. The hate multiplier of yonin simply needs a solid buff.

[Zhronne]

Item levels for character growth is a terrible idea in general. It would have been much better to just have added another merit category that would let you increase your character's powers dramatically, while also requiring lulz amounts of exp (or even special SoA "exp", if they want to keep all 99+ character progression within SoA, like they currently are doing with item levels.)
^ This! So much, so much, so much this.
iLevel is one of the worst ideas if not THE worst ideas coming into FFXI over the last 10 years. People haven't even started to grasp the full extent of damage this choice will do to the game over time.

[Zohno]

All this mix and match of level items is a mess, both for players and devs who will have to balance even more pieces since all of them will have to get the skills required to keep the character at that specific level. You risk to fall 10/20 lv down while swapping gear just because that pair of pants doesn't have enough skill.

[Demon6324236]

Thankfully they removed level correction from all of the new content, if they had not...

[Futan]

Swapping accuracy for evasion, enmity, and ninja tool expertise is no different than Berserk/Defender or Hasso/Seigan. It's quite sensible. The hate multiplier of yonin simply needs a solid buff.

I understand where you're coming from, but the difference is that w/ Berserk/Defender, you're swapping your attack power for defense or vice versa. In theory, you're doing the same w/ Yonin. However in practice, you're swapping the only way for you to build Enmity(damage) for more Enmity. It'd be like Berserk lowering accuracy instead of Defense. The debuff basically counteracts the buff. And actually in the case of Yonin, the debuff outweighs the buff in regards to building hate.

The result is the ability is useless on anything where that accuracy is required. So it's basically just for soloing/duoing weaker mobs. If they actually want us to be a tank, we're going to need more than just a solo ability.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

What they need to do is decide on what NIN actually is(DD, tank, etc.) and build upon it.No decision needed, it's a rng. It just lacks the ammo to do so.

[Umichi]

It's especially retarded for BST and DRG. Their pets levels are base don item level of their weapons, and change dynamically and drastically as the weapon changes. (Literally dropping from level 114 to 99 if you take your weapon off) Now take for example, Velk, which fill 3 whole zones of the expansion. They have a move that removes your Weapons and keep you from equipping them again. So BST and DRG just can't fucking fight those enemies at all because you will never be above level 99 when encountering them...

they can actualy miss with that move and I hardly see them spamm that often, and I hunt velks for the most part... haven't tried an IT one yet I'll let you know sometime in the next week if i ever decide to step into marjami ravine :)

[OniHavoc]

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the magic accuracy problems that jobs such as ninja, blue mage, and dark knight can encounter when battling the high-level monsters in Adoulin content. They are currently looking to see if they are able to boost magical accuracy through “combat skill+” values. Once we have some more information we will be sure to let you all know. :)

The question is are they aware that the blu macc issue's with barbed crescent and turboillion have been around long before adoulin came out?

[Rekin]

I think, in provoke's case, it couldn't keep up with with the numbers anymore. I think provoke just lost its edge.

Since the enmity update (right before the new weapons), provoke actually has considerably more relative enmity (vs. dmg/healing) than it did, it seems. It's just that it's not enough.

Tanking isn't going to matter until they address the problem that enmity cap exists and is obtainable withing a single 1hr.

Obviously, since this is something they have got to be aware of, they just don't care. The enmity update only made that more apparent.

Swapping accuracy for evasion, enmity, and ninja tool expertise is no different than Berserk/Defender or Hasso/Seigan. It's quite sensible. The hate multiplier of yonin simply needs a solid buff.
Honestly Omnys I think a good adjustment to how enmity abilities work in regards to enmity of others would be a good fix. Such as in XIV your main enmity ability on glad doesn't actually raise your enmity as much as it actually lowers the enmity of everyone else in your party.

This change in enmity abilities like flash and provoke would be a large step into making PLD/NIN/RUN real tanks again and would finally put some of enmity's glaring problems to rest.

[Pootersmash]

Honestly, I feel they are trying to compensate for the missing player levels by adding skill, and stats to weapons and gear. However, it is an imperfect system in multiple ways. They seem to be basing the stat/skill gains on an average of all the jobs that can use that gear, and only certain stats and skills are raised, leaving others behind(using evasion instead of evasion skill, and macc instead of magic skills).

I feel a more solidified solution would be to use the average iLvl of your gear, to determine a boost to player level, and that boost then raises all stats and skills according to how much you would gain from gaining that many levels. This would also encourage players to use higher iLvl gear, to help raise that boost up. This also would allow the boost to be specific to each job, and not just be generic stats designed to cover all jobs.

Single wielding/2handed jobs would have the one weapon determine the weapon level, while dual wield/weapon+shield users would use the average of the two slots to determine the weapon level. The weapon level, then can be averaged with the gear levels as one number to determine all skill/stat boosts. Alternatively you can use weapon number to determine offensive skill boosts(including magic skills), while gear level determines defensive skills, and stat boosts.

An example would be a bst using a lvl 115 and 113 axe, averaged to 114 wLvl.
119 helm, 110 body, 110 hands, 99 legs, and 119 feet. averaged to 111 aLvl.(floored)

In that example, you would gain 15 levels worth of offensive skills, and 12 levels worth of defensive skills and stats, based on your current job(bst). or if you averaged them all together, iLvl 112, gaining 13 levels to all stats/skills.

There are many other ways it can be done, such as each armor peice giving 1/5'th of skill/stat boost for the iLvl(119 head giving 20 levels worth of skill/stats, divided by 5). This is basicly what you are trying to emulate right now, but this way it would not have to be placed directly on the gear, and will vary the boost based on your job.

Other options are always there as well, I just feel that the current method is sloppy and doesn't cover all the bases, leaving certain skills/stats behind for certain jobs.

[Mirage]

No, a better idea would be to scrap itemlevel and use a new merit-like system for innate character growth.

[Jeryhn]

I don't really understand the complains about item levels. This game has always been extremely dependent on gear in order to make particular strategies work. Examples:

- Gear haste for TP, WS sets for WS.
- Idle sets that include refresh, DT-%, etc.
- SCH/BLM stun sets.

Yes, I get how Encumbrance could completely neuter the effective vertical performance of players in various levels of content, but that was a thing long before item level even existed. Encumbrance has always effectively cut melee performance in battle - this is why jobs like Monk were so great for events like Salvage. If the devs thought that this status could be too debilitating for whatever content they have planned, they could just make mobs with encumbrance moves that don't effect your top row of equipment, and therefore no one would lose their effective level in the middle of doing level 150+ level content (particularly a boon for pet jobs).

The side effect of increasing character growth (e.g. increasing the experience level cap) in a similar exponential manner over controlling growth through item availability is that it gives little incentive for players to complete the content that the devs are releasing. Moreover, it removes the effective difference between different levels of players (casual, hardcore, what-have-you) and everyone starts becoming more of the same... very similar to the gear stagnation we were encountering for a long time when people wouldn't take anything less than a relic or empyrean weapon melee job to lol-worthy content like Voidwatch.

Item levels are a good thing, and while it seems implemented from weirdly to poorly at the moment, they are here to stay.

[Mirage]

THe problem is that all character growth now comes from equipment, instead of how it was earlier where you had some of your power come from gear and some of your power come from levels/merits. It makes everything extremely dependent on gear, gear that people don't have when they get there.

When your power level was a combination of both, you could get a bit closer to the rest of the people by gaining exp/merits, which is a process that is not very gear dependent. Now, you have to have close to the best gear to get anywhere, and you can't get close to the best gear by just grinding trash mobs.

Having all growth come from items put people without the items at an extreme disadvantage. If the split between "natural" stat growth and item stat growth was split more evenly, it would be easier for people to catch up by playing the game in a way that was the most efficient for their playstyle and amount of playtime available.

Also, having item levels in themselves is not a problem. Items have always had "levels" after all. There has always been new items that were better than old items, and this would naturally not stop happening even if they stopped with writing the item levels on the items. If they stopped using them, it's not like delve gear would suddenly drop down to the strength of Abyssea/voidwatch gear. Splitting character growth between items and job stats just means you get 75% of your power from the gear you wear, rather than 99.2%

[FrankReynolds]

It has also taken the game from:
"You can get exp. solo, but if you team up with 5 other people it will go faster" to
-> "You can get exp. in a six man party, but if you form an alliance it will go faster" to
--> "You can't do this limit break quest without 18 of the best geared players on your server".

[Jeryhn]

THe problem is that all character growth now comes from equipment, instead of how it was earlier where you had some of your power come from gear and some of your power come from levels/merits. It makes everything extremely dependent on gear, gear that people don't have when they get there.

I wouldn't say this is completely accurate. The main benefit to leveling up isn't so much the stats you get doing it. Leveling up gives you more HP/MP, slightly higher attributes, more combat and magic skills to grind to cap, but most importantly: access to higher level gear.


When your power level was a combination of both, you could get a bit closer to the rest of the people by gaining exp/merits, which is a process that is not very gear dependent. Now, you have to have close to the best gear to get anywhere, and you can't get close to the best gear by just grinding trash mobs.

The thing is, you're assuming that the difference between two people remains the same given the same merits but different gear. This can't be further from the truth: in fact, the difference between two equally merited characters in the same categories but different gear becomes even wider.

Compare for instance, two Warriors, both at level 99 with full Double Attack merits. One warrior gears completely in STR and attack, the other warrior gears with 25.4% haste. Which do you think benefits more from the Double Attack merits? Obviously, the guy in Haste, because his increased hit frequency lends itself to more Double Attacks. The gap between these two players increases.

While this above example is pretty extreme in the sense that no sane WAR would ever gear in zero haste (or even could given the current selection of easily available gear), it nonetheless illustrates the point that the player with better gear outperforms the player without. The idea with merits is that they are small augmentations to your character, as it always has been, and those augmentations become even greater considering the gear that you have.


Having all growth come from items put people without the items at an extreme disadvantage. If the split between "natural" stat growth and item stat growth was split more evenly, it would be easier for people to catch up by playing the game in a way that was the most efficient for their playstyle and amount of playtime available.

You might have noticed how absolutely every item that has an item level is being addressed in the version update in a week. Notice how they all have major improvements to stats like combat skill and evasion? Even the Bayld-bought gear is being pretty drastically improved in terms of skill increases. These are stats you would naturally acquire through leveling up. This update in particular is designed to lessen that gap between the different tiers of players, while still keeping obvious tiering intact and rewarding the players who complete the high-end content.

The only thing concerning about item levels as a method to controlling character growth is encumbrance effects... But as we know given SE's history with making mobs like Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden, SE does like making their cheap mobs...


Also, having item levels in themselves is not a problem. Items have always had "levels" after all. There has always been new items that were better than old items, and this would naturally not stop happening even if they stopped with writing the item levels on the items. If they stopped using them, it's not like delve gear would suddenly drop down to the strength of Abyssea/voidwatch gear. Splitting character growth between items and job stats just means you get 75% of your power from the gear you wear, rather than 99.2%

This is where I begin agreeing with you, but the honest realization you need to consider is that character growth has always been 90% or more gear-dependent. The one exception to this rule was the Abyssea era, where much of the gear was pretty sidegrade in comparison to previously existing gear, but the main character "growth" was controlled by indefinite enhancing effects like atma and abyssite that offered a multitude of effects much greater than both leveling up and gearing up combined.

Overall, I would say that the one thing I would like to see SE do to address natural character growth in terms of EXP/Merits or whatever are player HP levels. Its not fun to be one-shot all the time, and introducing mobs that can do this without restriction begs for cheap strategies like the current scholar stun-locking players currently use to get things done.

[FrankReynolds]

Look, here's the thing. Before, that warrior could go to the AH or do relatively easy events to get to say 20% haste and still hit the same X hit build. He could probably come within 10% or 15% accuracy of the best war if he tried. He probably took exactly the same amount of damage as the best war unless dude had a d ring.

But if it was two jobs that were 10-15 levels apart lol... not even a chance.

[Jeryhn]

Look, here's the thing. Before, that warrior could go to the AH or do relatively easy events to get to say 20% haste and still hit the same X hit build. He could probably come within 10% or 15% accuracy of the best war if he tried. He probably took exactly the same amount of damage as the best war unless dude had a d ring.

But if it was two jobs that were 10-15 levels apart lol... not even a chance.

I'm... not sure what point you're trying to make. Unless you're agreeing with me or something.

For Adooulin-related content, the tiering goes like this:
1) Do Colonization/Lair Reives and Adoulin assignemnts for Bayld, use Bayld to buy +67 skill weapons and Orvail/Thurandaut/Karieyh sets. Difficulty is roughly equivalent to Campaign battles or completing quests. Alternatively, do Skirmishes for +51 skill weapons. Difficulty is roughly equivalent to Assault battles. (This section counts as your easy tasks you can complete.)
2) Join Tier 1 Wildskeeper Reives with your extra Bayld after acquiring necessities. Also drops +67 skill weapons.
3) Now you have access to host Tier 1 Delve runs. Farm Plasm for +162 skill weapons and Bokwus/Mikinaak/Manibozho sets. Difficulty roughly equivalent to forming a Voidwatch alliance (with a little more necessary coordination). You can also kill new Tier 2 Naakuals for +188 skill weapons.
4) Kill current Delve bosses for +242 skill gear.

As you can see, there is a predefined path to doing things, that go from easy things you can complete solo, to small- or full-man party, to content that eventually leads up to alliance-level coordination.

[FrankReynolds]

I'm... not sure what point you're trying to make. Unless you're agreeing with me or something.

You said gear has always been the main means of progression and used (I'm assuming a 75) Warrior as an example (completely ignoring that back when leveling / meriting took months / years, it was a far more important / tangible form of progression than the meager stats on the gear). I simply pointed out why the current form of gear progression is actually not very similar at all.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Aside from teh point that it completely screws over bst, there's nothing too wrong with the lvl system.

[Jeryhn]

Stating that leveling up used to take longer and was thus the main barometer of character progression is a bit of a misnomer because not all jobs earned EXP at quite the same rate when non-Abyssea partying was the only thing available. Moreover that statement hasn't really been true since about 2006 when people realized that chaining T-VT mobs was more effective than bringing a full tank and turtling up on IT mobs... An advancement that was only made possible by, get ready because here it comes, increasing amounts of Haste being featured on gear.

Not to mention the only things you gained when leveling up were attributes and additional abilities or spells. Here's the concept: when everyone gets the same exact thing, that is not growth or advancement. That is simply everyone getting the same thing, i.e. stagnation.

[FrankReynolds]

Stating that leveling up used to take longer and was thus the main barometer of character progression is a bit of a misnomer because not all jobs earned EXP at quite the same rate when non-Abyssea partying was the only thing available.

Right, but leveling was still the largest part of the job. Getting end game gear had nowhere near the effect and usually took a lot less time with the exception of a few items with really crappy drop rates, and those items weren't necessary foir entrance into any other content. You could do end game event A without having obtained any drops from end game event B.


Moreover that statement hasn't really been true since about 2006 when people realized that chaining T-VT mobs was more effective than bringing a full tank and turtling up on IT mobs... An advancement that was only made possible by, get ready because here it comes, increasing amounts of Haste being featured on gear.

I don't think that even now there is a significant amount of haste gear before you hit 75 and I pointed out the relatively small differences between the best gear and the average, easily accessible gear anyways. I never said haste didn't exist.


Not to mention the only things you gained when leveling up were attributes and additional abilities or spells. Here's the concept: when everyone gets the same exact thing, that is not growth or advancement. That is simply everyone getting the same thing, i.e. stagnation.

The amount of various gear and the time consumed obtaining it kept people busy and forced variation and I never said that Exp parties were awesome. Everyone gets the same Oatixurs now. Stagnation.

[Hayward]

I'm... not sure what point you're trying to make. Unless you're agreeing with me or something.

For Adooulin-related content, the tiering goes like this:
1) Do Colonization/Lair Reives and Adoulin assignemnts for Bayld, use Bayld to buy +67 skill weapons and Orvail/Thurandaut/Karieyh sets. Difficulty is roughly equivalent to Campaign battles or completing quests. Alternatively, do Skirmishes for +51 skill weapons. Difficulty is roughly equivalent to Assault battles. (This section counts as your easy tasks you can complete.)
2) Join Tier 1 Wildskeeper Reives with your extra Bayld after acquiring necessities. Also drops +67 skill weapons.
3) Now you have access to host Tier 1 Delve runs. Farm Plasm for +162 skill weapons and Bokwus/Mikinaak/Manibozho sets. Difficulty roughly equivalent to forming a Voidwatch alliance (with a little more necessary coordination). You can also kill new Tier 2 Naakuals for +188 skill weapons.
4) Kill current Delve bosses for +242 skill gear.

As you can see, there is a predefined path to doing things, that go from easy things you can complete solo, to small- or full-man party, to content that eventually leads up to alliance-level coordination.

Those steps would have been valid had Wildskeeper Reives and Skirmishes been allowed to take root and/or Delve restricted to possessing the gear you mentioned. What's happening now is that people are paying gil to skip steps 2 and (oftentimes) 3 and get the Delve weapons. I'm sure you've seen the /yells yourself that people only want DPS jobs with Delve weapons to do Delve. Explain the logic in that because there's no way that should be remotely justifiable.

[Zumi]

People wanting delve weapons for farms is a community issue more then anything. People that play FFXI want the most efficient, easiest route to do stuff.

When the Aug 6th update gets here and all the SoA gear is getting majorly buffed with the new gear system which has a lot more stats on it. I am sure that will help some people out.

[Lordkrys]

People wanting delve weapons for farms is a community issue more then anything. People that play FFXI want the most efficient, easiest route to do stuff.

When the Aug 6th update gets here and all the SoA gear is getting majorly buffed with the new gear system which has a lot more stats on it. I am sure that will help some people out.

I sure hope it helps. For the last six years I've done All end game events on Blu. And Delve comes out and suddenly I get turned down for everything simply because I'm an immortal. Even if I was dual welding delve swords (with I unfortunately have neither) I still don't think people would invite me. It's definitely a problem with the player base.

[Lithera]

Hopefully the blue magic adjustments in the update help us BLUs out. Problem with delve sword was it did nada for our spells effectively nerfing our primary source of burst damage. People also seem to forget we can do crowd control as effectively as any BRD. I go to delve on BRD as basically a sleep and pull whore and wonder why I'm not on my better skilled better geared BLU instead.

[OmnysValefor]

Obviously because you can't buff as a blu.

Surely you're buffing the group.

Pulling as a blu won't do anything to help your spells' damage. Bard also can pia->mazurka themselves if they get enough of a lead and lullabies have greater range than blue sleeps.

[Lithera]

I'm the Mage pt BRD so it's double ballad and that's it for the most part which frees me for pulling. Unless the mages are dummies, MP isn't a concern during farming anyways. I have speed legs for BLU plus more damage mitigation than BRD unless I scherzo myself. Don't need range on sleep. Not pulling with it and radius on BLU sleeps more or less fills the cramped fighting areas in Delve zones aside from the big room in Morimar which you don't need sleeps in after the initial wave of monsters anyways.

[Camate]

Greetings everyone,

Producer Matsui Akihiko has responded to some of the latest questions and feedback, so please have a read when you have a moment.



Hello, Matsui here.

Thank you for all of your feedback and thoughts.

I'd like to respond to some questions and feedback, as well as let you know some updates on content that is being adjusted.


Make item levels easier to see.


The development team would like to improve this, but this is something that we need some time to do.

Of the feedback we have received, requests for making this hidden (=a hidden stat) and requests for the addition of a new UI where this information could be consolidated stand out the most.
(The latter request also involving that it goes with the new Windows UI.)

In regards to the request for making it a hidden stat, if the rule was as simple as "item level 100 = +5 to each stat," then it wouldn't be that much of a problem; however, it's not as simple as this and I believe it would become even more difficult to understand.

Next, in order for us to change the display method and add a new UI, we would have to process the help text with the program itself and display it; however, the current help text is simply text data and addressing this would become difficult.

To solve this, we would have to make the display data into client data and create a system to display this data; however, this would impact the client memory in a large way. Additionally, the fact that there are a lot of special characteristics for FFXI equipment bonuses is yet another factor adding to the difficulty for this.

Instead of aiming for a perfect solution, I feel it would be best to put emphasis on making it better than it is currently.



You said you would be adding more physical damage reduction equipment, but it doesn’t look like you did.


The goal was not to increase the amount of physical damage reduction equipment; the goal was to close the gap that was opening up between the defensively proficient paladin and other jobs. (It's not that we are putting them at the same defensive level, we just want to shrink the large gap a bit.)

In other words, if we were to adjust the power of monster attacks with the original defensive difference, jobs other than paladins would end up taking severe damage or it would make all jobs completely unafraid of getting hit.

I'm also aware that only having physical damage reduction as we continue to make adjustments is somewhat problematic. (For example, it would take away the need to have curing power above a certain level.)

With that said, we are looking into alternative methods with jobs and items, and as we foresee that we can achieve our goal by mainly adjusting HP and defense, we have decided to make that the basis of our adjustments.

We apologize for making you worry about there not being any physical damage reduction stats; however, the adjustment plans that were conveyed previously have not been changed. Also, it's not like we are going to rule out physical damage reduction as an equipment bonus, and we plan on implementing gear in the future with this stat.



The effects of "magic damage +" is weak, so please make this value higher.


As this is something that is being worked on as a new parameter, the effect that you are seeing right now is in a weaker state than normal.

Once development and testing have been completed and the effect becomes what was planned, it will be a stat that can be understood better, and we will be keeping it as it is until that time.



How will you be enhancing magical accuracy for blue mage, dark knight, and ninja?


We will be introducing equipment with magic accuracy, but the main method of doing this will be by increasing magical accuracy and magic damage depending on the value of your "combat skill +" for the weapon equipped in your main hand.



Will the utsusemi adjustments apply to ninja support job as well?


Similar to the adjustments of the damage values for physical blue magic spells, this adjustment will only be applied to ninja when it is your main job.



There are some job abilities and equipment that are affected by level. Will these be affected by item levels?


Neither will be affected by item levels.



Make the item level of equippable items the same for each job.


I apologize for there not being enough equipment variations.

Due to the fact that there are a large amount of items in content such as skirmish, delve, and coalitions, as well as content such as wildskeeper reives that have different types of equipment, it's difficult to always have the same exact item levels for every job at any given point in time, but we will be preparing a variety of equipment that can be obtained in a variety of ways, which will enable you to procure all of the weapons for that item level.
(One large reason for this is that the rewards for wildskeeper reives have had their graphics designed based on the Naakuals.)

We are currently in the midst of preparing weapon enhancements and new armor for the new skirmishes which are in development, so please hang in there a bit longer.



Finally, I have one more thing I would like to inform you of.

Currently, of the shield stats that you can check on the Test Server, we’ve made the "shield skill +" values extremely small.

This is because these values were added based on the revamps to the shield activation rate calculation criteria; however, as a result of our testing, we've determined that when facing monsters that are above a certain strength the activation rate of Ochain has fallen roughly 30%.

Due to this, we are separating the criteria data and adding to the value of "shield skill +" so that the current shield activation rate is not changed.

I just wanted to let everyone know this ahead of time as I'm sure there would be some surprise when seeing this on the Test Server after I said there would not be large variations on the stats found there.

[FrankReynolds]

Currently, of the shield stats that you can check on the Test Server, we’ve made the "shield skill +" values extremely small.

This is because these values were added based on the revamps to the shield activation rate calculation criteria; however, as a result of our testing, we've determined that when facing monsters that are above a certain strength the activation rate of Ochain has fallen roughly 30%.

Due to this, we are separating the criteria data and adding to the value of "shield skill +" so that the current shield activation rate is not changed.

I just wanted to let everyone know this ahead of time as I'm sure there would be some surprise when seeing this on the Test Server after I said there would not be large variations on the stats found there.

errrmmm...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Hw7pILBP2Ik/Ua-UzYQFfgI/AAAAAAAAmjM/3Y1ZaQuvrKI/w500-h286-no/j7fCOea.gif

[Glamdring]

Comments on the Matsui post:

1. Pleased to see something being done about magic damage. Blm used to be a centerpiece or focal point in party build, I'd like to see them back in the top tier of DD and desired of themselves. Hopefully they won't get passed over for sch due to sch's tier 5 nukes and greater utility as a healer/buffer.

2. -PDT gear, sorry, but as a player that loves rune we NEED survivability gear that doesn't take away from our current job strengths. Maybe the AF that's coming does that, but since we'll all be building to delve stuff that's a short-term fix. I have no problem with pld being the kings of physical defence, that's what they were made for after all. But if you want rune to be a tank as well we need to be able to live thru mob's physical attacks. So if you want the new job to have a use, please look into this.

3. Item levels the same-sorry, this NEEDs to happen. See, the playerbase LOVES to marginalize jobs-at least if it isn't thier favorite job. Simply being able to say "you're level 117-equivalent, he's 119, he gets to come, you don't" is just a way to designate which jobs go on the scrapheap. I mean you already have party formers requiring r/m/e/d weaps only when forming despite the fact that 75% of those weapons are out-parsed by other stuff. It's marginalizing players on the basis of the package or brand-name, but it's still marginalizing. Obviously, when you FINALLY get around to the upgrades to r/m/e that may no longer be the case (I think that's currently scheduled for March of 2017 based on the info we are getting from you, 2 updates after the smn avatars and the like), but for the moment that's what is happening. We're told you guys ALL play, so I'm sure you all have seen it happening first-hand. If an item level makes a weap too overpowerred, put the level in the display but cut the stats.

4. Magic accuracy-sorry, doing this through gear just doesn't cut it. The jobs in question all have to gear for physical damage for current playstyle, they simply don't have ROOM for casting gear as well. So, unless you put the magic+ on the gear they use for physical you need to look at fixing the base accuracy of the jobs themselves. Otherwise, that proverbial scrapheap mentioned before.

**Edit due to update: IF combat skill + is going to in fact be physical AND magical I partially withdraw this objection. Only partially though, a heavy gear swapper is still going to have issues unless it is only based on the weapon, for some that change weapons (say for elemental compatibility or to exploit a prey weakness) even that might be a problem. If the 2 ARE combined then I hope the defensive boosts are also combined-although that might take away my rune's limited appeal, I'm gonna have to think about this one for a bit more...**

5. Item levels more visible-the whole game needs a graphic fix to be compatible with equipment built 2005 and later, but that clearly isn't going to happen so I'm not going to waste the typing effort to ask for the REALLY needed fix. The other players and I will just go on with the game freezes and forced disconnects that SE has apparently decided is to be our punishment for trying to keep place with modern technology. Seriously, if you guys were to roll out a compatible version the tech specs to handle this game means it could be played on a smartphone (good luck reading the display, but still).

[OmnysValefor]

Finally, I have one more thing I would like to inform you of.

Currently, of the shield stats that you can check on the Test Server, we’ve made the "shield skill +" values extremely small.

This is because these values were added based on the revamps to the shield activation rate calculation criteria; however, as a result of our testing, we've determined that when facing monsters that are above a certain strength the activation rate of Ochain has fallen roughly 30%.

Due to this, we are separating the criteria data and adding to the value of "shield skill +" so that the current shield activation rate is not changed.

I just wanted to let everyone know this ahead of time as I'm sure there would be some surprise when seeing this on the Test Server after I said there would not be large variations on the stats found there.

FrankReynolds beat me to it but: What does this mean? No offense, but the translation of this answer is hard to understand.

If it affected Ochain, how much does it affect Aegis, and did your intended changes change this? Aegis should still have a reasonable block-rate.

All PLDs, but non-ochain plds specifically, will be interested to know what the intended block rate of Killedar shield is vs these higher level enemies.

(Google-translating Matsui's post revealed the shield block plateau to be around level 110.)

[OmnysValefor]

On the subject of -PDT.

I am disappointed by the lack of PDT delve gear (non-existent besides 3% on one piece). My friends are upgrading their gear like nuts, and good for them, but the only relevant piece that I've gotten from adoulin are the hands from Yumcax. (I have full delve plate set -head, but it's just for fun, how hard I ws doesn't actually matter currently.)

I do believe that there is too much PDT gear in the game, that DDs are too tankable and that, even if enmity was working, zerging the boss is just too appealing. People won't stop inviting me to Naakual, but I'm just a tool at Delve Bosses.

Honestly--to be blunt, why is the damage a boss does to a pld even a concern? You haven't fixed enmity and have offered no intentions to do so. When a pld gets hate, it's usually because the next targets on the list are the support, or a hate reset.

[Babekeke]

Will the utsusemi adjustments apply to ninja support job as well?

Similar to the adjustments of the damage values for physical blue magic spells, this adjustment will only be applied to ninja when it is your main job.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Well, it's good for NINs as they really needed some love, but all other jobs that would have loved the extra survivability have really sh1t out here! ><

[Camate]

Greetings everyone,

Producer Akihiko Matsui made quite a few posts last night in regards to various feedback, and I've compiled them all below.



Hello, Matsui here.

I'd like to respond to some of the feedback and questions that were generated as a result of yesterday's post.


It seems like you are working with the people who are favorably accepting the whole concept of content levels and item levels, while you ignore the majority of feedback which are filled with criticism and concern.

Ever since Adoulin was released, I feel like the player base is decreasing with every update, and it seems like this is going to continue.

If you really want to proceed with content levels and items levels, I really think you should hurry and address inventory issues and improve the job disparity due to item levels.

We don't need content that makes people leave, so please focus on making content that will bring people back from here on out.

Please keep doing your best from September on as well.

If it seems that way, it's just my inadequacy and I will do my best to work harder on this.

There are times when I get a bit hung up thinking about how to respond to dissenting opinions and criticism, but I will do my best to grasp the real meaning and make the appropriate response.

As a result of this there are times when I do not make direct replies to feedback, and as I am not always quoting text it may seem that your feedback is being ignored. Also, there are cases it might feel this way when you don't receive an answer to certain things you were expecting and the subject continues to shift.

The way everyone thinks is different, and while a universally accepted answer is not very realistic, I will continue to do my best to ensure that I connect my responses to our position and conclusions that can be easily understood.

I posted yesterday about the item levels between jobs, but I will be responding about this more with the version update content.

We are also looking into Gobbiebags, but as there are risks that these will cause other inconveniences such, as items not displaying right away when logging in or changing areas, we would like to closely investigate methods that have low risk and have a high possibility of realizing (including methods other than Gobbiebags).




When will the "magic damage +" effect become the full-on effect you planned?


We are working on this for the August 6th version update.




What's going on with shield block rates now? And why is the Steadfast Shield a lower item level than the Faction Shield?


First, the current activation rate for shield blocks and parrying on the Test Server has become higher than normal due to a bug, just as was announced here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26359-Known-Issues-%28Jul.-19%29).

Moving on to the second question, the Test Server data is still being adjusted, but will ultimately look like the below:


Data currently being adjusted (Test Server data)
Killedar Shield (Delve boss) – Item Level 117
Steadfast Shield (Delve NM) – Item Level 105
Faction Shield (Bayld) – Item Level 106

↓

Adjusted data
Killedar Shield (Delve boss) – Item Level 117
Steadfast Shield (Delve NM) – Item Level 113
Faction Shield (Bayld) – Item Level 106





Will the 90-100% block rate of Ochain be preserved?
Will other shields not be able to catch up to Ochain even with shield skill +?



Not only Ochain, but all existing shields will still have their same block rate as usual.

Other shields will not have a block rate that gets close to Ochain; however, there will be shields that have a higher damage reduction when blocking than Ochain.

More than just preserving Ochain, it's that we are in a situation where Ochain adjustments are extremely difficult due to the fact that strategies that involve the use of Ochain are well-established.

If we were to convert the block rate of Ochain into terms of item level, it would just about be item level 150. In the case we were to reduce the stats to something more proportionate (consider RME weapons), it would be tied to increased difficulties in Delve plasm farming and such.

If this is what is wanted, we can always take a look at reducing the block rate on Ochain; however, I don't believe you'd want this, and neither do I.

We'd like to avoid the consequences of nerfing Ochain, and have selected to add stats to shields we introduce here on out so they can gradually get closer to the stats of Ochain. If anything is unclear with these intentions, please let me know.




Summoning skill affects physical-based blood pact accuracy and it seems like there are some item level 119 items, but none that make avatars level 119, so please add something for this.


Equipment that has "Avatar Lv. ***" has accuracy and other stats built into it.
We will be adding Avatar Lv. 114 and higher equipment in the future.




Are you going to be adding equipment that boosts automaton skills?


The animators with item levels have accuracy and other stats built into them, and it will not increase individual automaton skills (melee skill, magic skill, and ranged skill).

This isn't to say that we will not be implementing equipment with "Melee Skill +" in the future; however, we do not have any plans to do so right now.




For beastmaster, I feel like the pet stats do not match the item levels. I can't really play the normal beastmaster way because my pet's stats are so low even though I am using a high item level weapon.

Please increase pet stats so I can battle monsters properly.


By equipping a high item level weapon in your main hand coupled with the proper familiar, it is possible to call a pet with stats that match the level. (There is also Beast Affinity.)

As much I would like to give a slightly deeper answer, I can only answer broadly as we would like you all to discuss a bit more amongst yourselves and explore which pets to call and what equipment to wear.



Red mage is the most proficient job for enfeebling magic and is losing out more than other jobs in terms of magic accuracy, especially since they cannot equip the Atinian Staff.

I'm really hoping you are able to grasp the current situation and make improvements.


I believe it looked as if red mage was left out of the equation with the question I answered yesterday that was phrased "How will you be enhancing magical accuracy for blue mage, dark knight, and ninja?"

Sorry about that.

The plan is not limited to only these jobs and we will be boosting magical accuracy based on the "combat skill +" added to weapons in general.




Even using Tamaxchi as blue mage, I feel like the damage on physical spells wasn't increased much at all. I would like to see "combat skill +" directly affect blue magic attack power. With the monsters becoming stronger and stronger moving forward, it's going to be become increasingly tough to fight if blue magic specs remain this way.


I'm sure you know that there is a damage value cap for physical blue magic spells.

While I am not certain which spells you used that made you feel this way, it could be you are feeling this because you've hit the cap on Head Butt, Quadratic Continuum, and such.

Even for spells that weren't able to reach the cap before, by using equipment with "combat skill +" there are spells that will reach the cap and spells that have room to grow.




Adding new equipment is really nice, but there's a lot of equipment from the past that looks really cool and it makes me want a way to upgrade them, or at least a way to separate the appearance from their stats so they can be used at high levels.


There are still some things that make me a bit hesitant about introducing a system where you can separate the appearance from the stats of equipment.

For FFXI, the animation packs are read via your main weapon, so we aren't able to do this completely with weapons. Think of it as we would have to limit it to being the same type of weapon.

In terms of armor, of the MMORPGs I have played that had this system, it resulted in a ton of people looking like they were fighting without any gear on at all.

Also, as we need to decide our position on whether or not it's okay that front-line jobs wear back-line equipment (and vice versa), as well as the fact that classic FF artifact equipment could be worn by other jobs, so please let us look into this a bit more.

We are planning to add high level equipment using graphics of popular existing items as well as revamping job-specific armor.

[Rwolf]

Make item levels easier to see.

Instead of aiming for a perfect solution, I feel it would be best to put emphasis on making it better than it is currently.

Honestly, I think it would be wise to spend more time concerned with a total UI overhaul instead of some of these recent things no one really asked for. Which would not only fix a lot of current issues with the game, but allow you a broader scope of what you're capable of doing going forward.

If item levels are going to be the new standard, then the average level that is being calculated for what your con to an enemy needs to show up somewhere. I know it seems unrealistic, however the time you spend on building a better foundation, will make it better for everything overall.



You said you would be adding more physical damage reduction equipment, but it doesn’t look like you did.

...the goal was to close the gap that was opening up between the defensively proficient paladin and other jobs.

...we are looking into alternative methods with jobs and items

We apologize for making you worry about there not being any physical damage reduction stats...

I'm more concerned about Rune Fencer. The amount of evasion, parrying and copious amounts of magic evasion is not enough. It cannot currently tank anything of value (needing a tank job) in Adoulin. All the photos of Rune Fencer tanking Naakauls, doesn't work. Even with higher resistance, it doesn't change they aren't mitigating enough damage. Evasion has a cap proc rate, same with magic evasion/elemental resistance.

Why did Ninja become a tank? Solely because of Utsusemi. Without it, it would be in the same position Rune Fencer is in now. Can't mitigate enough damage, not enough attack power to be anything else other than a tank. I understand it's a new job but seriously the time for that excuse has past. Given the current state of the game, it should have came in within a few months with gear on par with Paladin's magic defense capabilities and magic that can mitigate more physical damage.

The ability to area of effect mitigate magic damage through Valiance and One For All, is not enough to balance itself as a tank, not even as a support type job.



How will you be enhancing magical accuracy for blue mage, dark knight, and ninja?

We will be introducing equipment with magic accuracy, but the main method of doing this will be by increasing magical accuracy and magic damage depending on the value of your "combat skill +" for the weapon equipped in your main hand.

This catch all with "combat skill +" is getting ridiculous. I'll stop beating the dead horse about expanding combat and magic merits (However, it's still ridiculous as it would eat up significantly less development time trying to re-balance weapons/armor for all jobs that equip it.)

I think it would be more beneficial and less confusing, now that they are including magic and pet levels, etc. to just change the name to something entirely different. For example: Axe Skill+188 to something like Martial Skill+188.

I will continue to point out that hybrid jobs just need their own gear, lump all the jobs that use a combination of magic and physical abilities and spells onto a gear set.



Make the item level of equippable items the same for each job.

I apologize for there not being enough equipment variations.

Due to the fact that there are a large amount of items in content such as skirmish, delve, and coalitions, as well as content such as wildskeeper reives that have different types of equipment, it's difficult to always have the same exact item levels for every job at any given point in time, but we will be preparing a variety of equipment that can be obtained in a variety of ways, which will enable you to procure all of the weapons for that item level.

I have a problem with this. It's not difficult at all to balance this.

You make all the Naakauls the same difficulty, so the rewards are similar.
You make the Naakauls scale in difficulty as new ones are released.
Best option: You spend less time making unique skins for reive gear which no one is really going to spend time on keeping around and convert those teams to work on a set of weapons split between each tier of Naakauls. To prevent taking forever to get the weapon you want due to the amount of weapons. Make it a universal item that could potentially drop among the other loot, which you trade to an NPC for your choice of weapon. Done and done.

[FrankReynolds]

If it seems that way, it's just my inadequacy and I will do my best to work harder on this.

You can start right here. Try responding to an English post. Even one sentence. Even if it's a lie. Just pop in a few of the hot threads and say "Hey guys, we read all this stuff...".


We are also looking into Gobbiebags, but as there are risks that these will cause other inconveniences such, as items not displaying right away when logging in or changing areas, we would like to closely investigate methods that have low risk and have a high possibility of realizing (including methods other than Gobbiebags).


You already know how to do gobbie bags. Give us a couple of those now and buy yourself some time to work on a more permanent solution. Give people the option to not use them if they don't like the load times.


We'd like to avoid the consequences of nerfing Ochain, and have selected to add stats to shields we introduce here on out so they can gradually get closer to the stats of Ochain. If anything is unclear with these intentions, please let me know.

It would probably be best if you could do this sooner than later. You might want to consider doing the same thing with the bard horns. Sitting watching the same guy shout for 3 hours for a paladin or a bard is just depressing.


I believe it looked as if red mage was left out of the equation with the question I answered yesterday that was phrased "How will you be enhancing magical accuracy for blue mage, dark knight, and ninja?"

Sorry about that.

The plan is not limited to only these jobs and we will be boosting magical accuracy based on the "combat skill +" added to weapons in general.

So to be clear here, if a weapon says "Sword Skill +188", it would also give magic accuracy +(of 188?) ?


There are still some things that make me a bit hesitant about introducing a system where you can separate the appearance from the stats of equipment.

For FFXI, the animation packs are read via your main weapon, so we aren't able to do this completely with weapons. Think of it as we would have to limit it to being the same type of weapon.

In terms of armor, of the MMORPGs I have played that had this system, it resulted in a ton of people looking like they were fighting without any gear on at all.

Also, as we need to decide our position on whether or not it's okay that front-line jobs wear back-line equipment (and vice versa), as well as the fact that classic FF artifact equipment could be worn by other jobs, so please let us look into this a bit more.

We are planning to add high level equipment using graphics of popular existing items as well as revamping job-specific armor.


Please don't tie this to a convoluted synergy system. Just let crafters make the gear in it's raw form like cursed gear and then allow players to trade the two pieces in to an NPC to have the two merged.


EDIT: Also, since it seems that you are hell bent on doing stuff that makes people want to quit the game, can we get some server merges? I logged in the other day and there were only 700 people on Cerberus. Probably more than half were AFK.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Other shields will not have a block rate that gets close to Ochain; however, there will be shields that have a higher damage reduction when blocking than Ochain.


This sounds like a continuation of what I feel to be a long-standing problem with shields. Stepping away from Aegis and Ochain territory, we have size 4 shields that "don't have a block rate that gets close to size 3 shields; however they have a higher damage reduction when blocking than size 3 shields." But when all is said and done, size 3 is always the best choice in all situations, from at most level 60 through to forever. The playerbase knows this; size 3 shields always sell better than size 4 shields. The developers know this; when was the last time you introduced a size 4 shield?

This stagnation makes me wonder why you bother with a fourth size to begin with.

Personally, I'd like to see some sort of opportunity to truly advance in the use of shields, beyond the age old cry of "Get an Aegis and an Ochain, n00b!" I actually got excited to hear about this bug until you burst this bubble.


I'm sure you know that there is a damage value cap for physical blue magic spells.

Any chance of getting stuff we "should" know compiled into the actual (outdated) manuals and documentation?

[Karah]

Also, since it seems that you are hell bent on doing stuff that makes people want to quit the game, can we get some server merges? I logged in the other day and there were only 700 people on Cerberus. Probably more than half were AFK.

I'm so saddened that I'm actually in agreeance with this... merging gilgamesh onto our server was in the top 10 worst ideas ever, but now, I could see the need.

You could even send all the gilgamesh to a different sever and re-merge with 2 new servers... Just sayin'

[FrankReynolds]

I'm so saddened that I'm actually in agreeance with this... merging gilgamesh onto our server was in the top 10 worst ideas ever, but now, I could see the need.

You could even send all the gilgamesh to a different sever and re-merge with 2 new servers... Just sayin'

Lol I bet Cerberus feels the same way about us people from Hades. They would probably be glad to get rid of us and merge with another server :P

[OmnysValefor]

Cerberus had to go home to Hades. After all, that's where he's from.

[FrankReynolds]

Cerberus had to go home to Hades. After all, that's where he's from.

LOL in all this time I never thought about that.

[Tennotsukai]

Tourbillion and Barbed Crescent do not work. All blu spells need checked. Many are bad and inefficient. Also, most tests with the Tamaxchi were done with heavy strike which is a lvl 92 spell. I do not think that spell has hit dmg cap yet. I may be mistaken...

[Doombringer]

"The plan is not limited to only these jobs and we will be boosting magical accuracy based on the "combat skill +" added to weapons in general."

that's all well and good, but it kinda misses the point. since all the staves and clubs in question all give "combat skill +" in ADDITION to magic acc. so the non-stave job still ends up exactly as far behind as it was before. the problem isn't really solved, it's just pushed up the "content tier" ladder.

the non stave/club jobs are still down a boatload of magic accuracy relative to the stave/club jobs.

[Rwolf]

that's all well and good, but it kinda misses the point. since all the staves and clubs in question all give "combat skill +" in ADDITION to magic acc. so the non-stave job still ends up exactly as far behind as it was before. the problem isn't really solved, it's just pushed up the "content tier" ladder.

the non stave/club jobs are still down a boatload of magic accuracy relative to the stave/club jobs.

This. ^

It also just seems overkill. That's a lot of magic accuracy. Like with Atinian Staff on the test server:

Atinian Staff
DMG:157 Delay:366
INT+12 MND+12
Magic Accuracy+180 Magic Attack Bonus+25
Magic Damage+195
Staff Skill+215 Parrying Skill+215

If they are making "combat skill+" equal magic accuracy. That's +395 Magic Accuracy just in the weapon slot. I'm more concerned of how this makes anyone able to stick anything with that amount. Yeah it's a piece of gear that won't be common for awhile but geez... Also considering we still have more Naakauls and a potential either "endgame area" or boss of the missions that might drop higher item level gear.

[Zhronne]

as well as revamping job-specific armor
And once again he talks about that.
I'm scared to get my hopes up but if he really wants to release ilevel 105 Artifact, Relic and Empyreal armor then I'm gonna be really happy.

Maybe it's just me but I've always loved job-specific gear, throughout the years some of those pieces (not many, to be honest) are those I kept using despite their low level because of how they were boosting a certain JA/Trait/Spell/Etc.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

And once again he talks about that.
I'm scared to get my hopes up but if he really wants to release ilevel 105 Artifact, Relic and Empyreal armor then I'm gonna be really happy.

I suspect it'll be higher than 105. Karieyh is already a bit of a sidegrade compared empyrean +1 armor of the same jobs, and probably a little inferior to empyrean/relic armor +2. Any sort of +3 upgrade has to be significant to be worth programming/obtaining.

[Daemon]

And once again he talks about that.
I'm scared to get my hopes up but if he really wants to release ilevel 105 Artifact, Relic and Empyreal armor then I'm gonna be really happy.

Maybe it's just me but I've always loved job-specific gear, throughout the years some of those pieces (not many, to be honest) are those I kept using despite their low level because of how they were boosting a certain JA/Trait/Spell/Etc.

Gah!!! More gear to hold in our extremely tight inventory?? I seriously hope it's not an "Additional" set to add with the other AF sets. I seriously cannot hold anymore equipment. This is a huge problem SE! Do I need to gimp my cure potency? What about enhancing? Enfeebling? MAB? MACC? -PDT? What should I sacrifice to hold more gear you keep releasing??? Which AF SET do I sacrifice for the NEW AF if its released? AF2 or AF3?? Honestly it's more than impossible to hold another AF SET unless SE gives the SAME enhancements that can replace previous pieces. Here's an example..

Red Mage AF2 body
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120201223338/ffxi/images/1/16/Duelist%27s_Tabard_%2B2_Augmented.png

Vs

Redmage AF3 Body
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101209061117/ffxi/images/9/90/Estoqueur%27s_Sayon_%2B2.png

What's my point? Stats on each AF differ which is why we carry them in our inventory. They never make an AF to replace a previous piece. If I was lazy and didn't care about my performance sure I'd never even carry gear sets to begin with but admit it!!! Who would dare leave AF2 relic body behind due to no inventory to carry when it gives +20 seconds more to Chainspell?

Who would dare leave behind 2 tick refresh with 10% potency to enfeebling magic?

I only showed you 2 pieces. This is basically what it's like with the rest of the gear.
Should I leave this piece behind?

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110925114150/ffxi/images/3/33/Heka%27s_Kalasiris_description.png

This is what it's coming to at End Game!! Making decisions like this!! What do I leave behind in order to carry your new equipment?

Do I leave this behind?
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130115021316/ffxi/images/3/34/Nares_Trews_description.png

Gah I'm frustrated now..

[Umichi]

IDK being able to land slow, heabut, paralyze, and other magic attacks more frequently as a drg is kinda nice... I know i wont be landing it on anything too high of a level but i should be able to do it for mid to higher tier content in the older parts of the game which makes surviving and using my hp more fun!

[Hawklaser]

On the note of separating stats from appearances of armor, would be perfectly fine if the system for it was still tied to what is normally equip-able by ones main job.

I am curious as to what SE is planning to do with the old JSE armors though. Would be nice if they thought they could combine Artifact, Relic, and Empyrean Armors into one piece, while keeping the looks thematic with the job.

[OmnysValefor]

Imagine the PVP implications, for those who care about PVP, if any job could look like any job. Imagine if the blm could equip a shield made to LOOK like Ochain through this system.

[Demon6324236]

Imagine the PVP implicationsSomething that has never come up since Adoulin came out amazingly, you would think with the weapons Adoulin brought, PvP would have had someone crying out about the imbalance created. At least, I would have thought, in either case, I have no idea how this would change anything still. The only rule need to be made is that you can make your character look like they are wearing any gear the job your currently on can wear. If the job can wear it, you can look like your wearing it, tada, all problems solved.

[OmnysValefor]

I had a thought about the interrupt rate of spells being affected by weapon level.

Paladin.

The main sword we use has no ilevel. Shikargar 99 PDT -11%. Unless you have a burtgang, there is no better sword.

I have an ochain and that usually covers me on spell interrupts, but not every pld does.

[Duelle]

"The plan is not limited to only these jobs and we will be boosting magical accuracy based on the "combat skill +" added to weapons in general."

that's all well and good, but it kinda misses the point. since all the staves and clubs in question all give "combat skill +" in ADDITION to magic acc. so the non-stave job still ends up exactly as far behind as it was before. the problem isn't really solved, it's just pushed up the "content tier" ladder.

the non stave/club jobs are still down a boatload of magic accuracy relative to the stave/club jobs.The only alternative would be making the gain of Magic Acc. inherent to the jobs themselves rather than putting it in as a blanket rule, then remove magic acc. from gear and replace it with something else. That way the jobs intended to cast still get their magic acc. without it spilling over to jobs not intended to cast.

Well, unless the magic acc in the test server items is just leftovers and haven't been replaced by final versions that go along with what Matsui stated.


For FFXI, the animation packs are read via your main weapon, so we aren't able to do this completely with weapons. Think of it as we would have to limit it to being the same type of weapon.

In terms of armor, of the MMORPGs I have played that had this system, it resulted in a ton of people looking like they were fighting without any gear on at all.Where costume/vanity slots and transmogrification are available you'll get people that wear their choice of armor. The beauty of those systems is that they can wear prior-tier gear or other sets that meet the criteria set by the developers. I've yet to see a game where people actually choose to look like they're naked when doing serious content, so I'm going to call BS on that last sentence.

Also, as we need to decide our position on whether or not it's okay that front-line jobs wear back-line equipment (and vice versa), as well as the fact that classic FF artifact equipment could be worn by other jobs, so please let us look into this a bit more.If you limit the system to whatever the main job can equip, right there you have a solid ruleset to go with.

[FrankReynolds]

Where costume/vanity slots and transmogrification are available you'll get people that wear their choice of armor. The beauty of those systems is that they can wear prior-tier gear or other sets that meet the criteria set by the developers. I've yet to see a game where people actually choose to look like they're naked when doing serious content, so I'm going to call BS on that last sentence.

It's like for some reason hiding your job and level info is fine, but if people can't see that you're wearing pearl boots, then the game is broken :P

And unless it affects their ability to perform, does anyone really care if other people are naked? I mean unless you are using 3rd party tools, most people will be blinking too much for you to know what they are really wearing most of the time anyways beyond their idle gear.



If you limit the system to whatever the main job can equip, right there you have a solid ruleset to go with.

That seemed obvious right? These guys scare me.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

so i was checking out the new gear from the test server here. (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/117087-Translated-Gear-Take-these-for-granite?p=5816300&viewfull=1#post5816300) and i noticed that a lot of these new weapons have some pretty impressive stats. which is great, generally.

but i think i may have spotted a flaw here. some new and improved staves and clubs give massive bonus' to magic accuracy. but none of the other weapons do. could this not have dramatic ramifications for jobs like drk, blu, rdm, nin, and maybe even cor?

a dark knight casting drain without a staff is "down" about 30 magic accuracy by not swapping his weapon. with these new staves in play he would effectively be "down" up to 180 magic accuracy. now it is debatable just how much a drk REALLY relies on his spells, but if the magic acc from the new weapons becomes the new standard then there will be no debate. they'll just stop casting anything with an accuracy check.

this same concern extends to any job that might find itself doing anything that relies on magic accuracy, while using anything other than a club or stave. physical blue magic should be fine, but magical blue magic will be devastated. i'm not a corsair, but i know some of their quick draws use magic accuracy. ninja? could easily end up highly boned. and i'm not here to debate the efficacy of meleerdm, i'm just saying this could kill it.

there may be other issues i'm not seeing myself. is flash resistable? because if it is, add paladin to the list? how deep does this change go, and how do we fix it? would it be game breaking if we just also threw a bunch of magic acc on other weapons?Blu an use the club.

[FrankReynolds]

Blu an use the club.

How crappy will it be if blus have to run around wielding clubs all the time?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

How crappy will it be if blus have to run around wielding clubs all the time?Yeah, that's terrible, off handing an 88dmg weapon with massive magic acc and atk stats.

[FrankReynolds]

Yeah, that's terrible, off handing an 88dmg weapon with massive magic acc and atk stats.

No, You're right. Tell them it's awesome. I don't care. My samurai isn't off handing a club.

[hiko]

No, You're right. Tell them it's awesome. I don't care. My samurai isn't off handing a club.

-if BLU was a strong melee job that >90% of utily is just melee dmg and club wasn't their 2nd choice weapon yes wielding a club would be gimp.
-it's 3rd higher DPS weapon a BLU can equip, if you dont have buramenkha only other offhand decent "melee" option is an upgraded plasm CLUB

[FrankReynolds]

-if BLU was a strong melee job that >90% of utily is just melee dmg and club wasn't their 2nd choice weapon yes wielding a club would be gimp.
-it's 3rd higher DPS weapon a BLU can equip, if you dont have buramenkha only other offhand decent "melee" option is an upgraded plasm CLUB

Yeah, no... that's ... that's... totally awesome...

[Gokku]

another missed aspect with ilvl is kick attacks for monk , my attack rounds read like 3-500 x2-8 and the occasionl 97ish damage kick. there's a huge gap in hth damage and kick damage now.

[Doombringer]

"blue can use clubs" kinda misses the point. if you're happy being locked into using clubs, fine. but everybody else, especially those on jobs without the option... are still just as screwed.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

"blue can use clubs" kinda misses the point. if you're happy being locked into using clubs, fine. but everybody else, especially those on jobs without the option... are still just as screwed.What is it with you people? YOU'RE NOT USING CLUBS, YOU"RE NOT MAIN HANDING THE DAMN THING, YOU ARE OFF HANDING A CLUB. A SINGLE CLUB THAT IS VERY ACCESSABLE. God forbid a job with decent skill in a weapon, uses the damn weapon when it has the acc and dmg you're lookig for in spades.
another missed aspect with ilvl is kick attacks for monk , my attack rounds read like 3-500 x2-8 and the occasionl 97ish damage kick. there's a huge gap in hth damage and kick damage now.Yeah, I used to have 5/5 kick merits for the extra atks, but now I too them out. I got sick of seeing the 2-40dmg.

[saevel]

No .. just no. So much with the last few posts.

After the recent 1H fix's BLU most certainly isn't a "3rd tier DD", it's quite close to the rest. Stop comparing a fully buffed DRK/WAR/SAM/DRG/MNK to an unbuffed solo BLU/RDM. The only issue it faces is with Req being incredibly sensitive to buffs / debuffs, if something should go down you'll see a pretty sharp drop in damage output, DRK's face the same issue anyway. I've gone BLU/WAR to Tojil before, it absolutely destroys that entire zone

Next update will fix the weird MND mod problem which is the only issue BLU faces. That and idiots thinking blue magic actually constitutes a viable source of damage now.

[OmnysValefor]

Next update will fix the weird MND mod problem which is the only issue BLU faces. That and idiots thinking blue magic actually constitutes a viable source of damage now.

Do you mean the plethora of mnd gear that the gear changes tomorrow will bring? I got excited and hoped I missed some change to requiescat but a pretty quick search nixed that.

- - -

As a PLD, str mod would be lovely. I understand how RDMs would feel largely left out of that though.

Attack Penalty on a ws designed for jobs that aren't exactly bleeding attack never made sense.

[Demon6324236]

Do you mean the plethora of mnd gear that the gear changes tomorrow will bring?This should make your PLD happy. So far as this (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/117087-Translated-Gear-Take-these-for-granite) post says, here are some of the following gear changes to expect from todays update.


-Bayld Gear

Karieyh Morion
DEF:51 MP+16
STR+16 DEX+16 VIT+9 AGI+7 INT+7 MND+7 CHR+7
Accuracy+10
Magic Evasion+12
Haste+6%

Karieyh Haubert
DEF:79 MP+24
STR+18 DEX+18 VIT+9 AGI+6 INT+6 MND+6 CHR+6
Attack+25
Magic Evasion+18
Double Attack+2% Haste+2%

Karieyh Moufles
DEF:46
STR+3 DEX+14 VIT+14 INT+2 MND+8 CHR+6
Accuracy+10
Magic Evasion+10
Haste+4%

Karieyh Brayettes
DEF:56 MP+65
STR+16 VIT+16 AGI+5 INT+8 MND+4 CHR+3
Attack+20
Magic Evasion+25
Haste+4%

Karieyh Sollerets
DEF:37
STR+11 DEX+11 VIT+11 AGI+9 MND+3 CHR+8
Accuracy+10 Attack+10
Magic Evasion+25
Store TP+5 Haste+2%

-Naakual Gear

Quauhpilli Helm
DEF:72 HP+12 MP+18
STR+20 DEX+12 VIT+15 AGI+12 INT+11 MND+11 CHR+11
Attack+20
Evasion+9 Magic Evasion+18
Double Attack+2% Haste+7%

Chocaliztli Boots
DEF:53 HP+45 MP+40
STR+12 DEX+9 VIT+8 AGI+17 MND+5 CHR+14
Accuracy+10
Evasion+15 Magic Evasion+43
Haste+4%

-Delve NM Gear

Mikinaak Helm
DEF:80 HP+21 MP+40
STR+13 DEX+12 VIT+13 AGI+9 INT+8 MND+8 CHR+8
Attack+10
Evasion+17 Magic Evasion+22 Magic Defense+1
Haste+7%

Mikinaak Breastplate
DEF:102 HP+33 MP+30
STR+15 DEX+13 VIT+15 AGI+13 INT+13 MND+13 CHR+13
Accuracy+18 Attack+18
Evasion+21 Magic Evasion+34 Magic Defense +2 Physical Damage Taken -3%

Mikinaak Gauntlets
DEF:72 HP+15
STR+6 DEX+20 VIT+22 INT+13 MND+17 CHR+13
Attack+13
Evasion+11 Magic Evasion+19
Haste+4%

Mikinaak Cuisses
DEF:89 HP+27
STR+13 VIT+14 AGI+11 INT+17 MND+8 CHR+6
Attack+20
Evasion+11 Magic Evasion+45 Magic Defense+1
Weapon Skill Accuracy+10

Mikinaak Greaves
DEF:59 HP+9
STR+6 DEX+3 VIT+7 AGI+15 MND+1 CHR+13
Attack+10
Evasion+25 Magic Evasion+45
Store TP+5 Haste+4%

-Delve Boss Gear

Yaoyotl Helm
DEF:114 HP+41 MP+23
STR+25 DEX+19 VIT+25 AGI+19 INT+17 MND+17 CHR+17
Accuracy+25 Attack+25
Evasion+33 Magic Evasion+32 Magic Defense+2
Store TP+4 Haste+7%

Whirlpool Greaves
DEF:84 HP+15
STR+15 DEX+17 VIT+15 AGI+32 MND+15 CHR+26
Accuracy+13 Attack+20
Evasion+52 Magic Evasion+75 Magic Defense+2
Haste+5%

-Crafted

Pak Corselet
DEF:68
MP+30 STR+16 DEX+9 VIT+7 AGI+8 INT+7 MND+7 CHR+7
Accuracy+18 Attack+18
Magic Evasion+25
Store TP+3 Double Attack+3% Haste+3%

Pak Corselet +1
DEF:69
HP+3 MP+30 STR+17 DEX+10 VIT+8 AGI+9 INT+7 MND+7 CHR+7
Accuracy+19 Attack+19
Evasion+1 Magic Evasion+27
Store TP+4 Double Attack+4% Haste+3%

This is all of the PLD gear so far as I know which is said to be getting changes in that post, as well as all of their stats. I hope this brings you greater hope for Req.

[OmnysValefor]

Oh, I wasn't complaining, I was just asking if that's what he meant.

Still, a str mod would be nicer. I hate ws's with silly mods, just means more gear I get to carry around.

However, yes I'll be changing my ws sets tomorrow.

[Demon6324236]

I agree, honestly RDM could use STR almost as well as a MND mod anyways probably. I cant say for sure, because I am not super mathy with FFXI myself, I just use spreadsheets which are for much of it all, but I would think getting rid of the attack penalty and changing it to a STR mod would benefit RDM as well.

[saevel]

A LONG time ago we asked SE about Req's attack penalty and their response was that because it ignores special defenses they wanted to keep the penalty for balance. We all laughed cause for FFXI at that time "special defenses" typically meant complete immunity things like Bulwark. Lo and behold SE was referring to their upcoming expansions battle system. They employ heavy amounts of "special defenses" and AI components to force some form of strategy into fights. It's the primary reason they nerfed Twilight Scythe so badly, they knew it would allow players to beat content too easily. Now you have two options, one involves an ultra rare drop that is a level 95 DMG:111 GKT, the other is Requiescat with current weapons. After last update it's not hard to see which one of those two will end up the better option.

[detlef]

Been hearing that item level has been killing experience in Dynamis and Abyssea.