whats happening with the relics?

[stubbsie]

as been a player since 2009 and worked hard for getting 2 relics and then working on 3rd which im on stage 5 and now you bring out weapons in delve and crafting that are way better than relics.

now if its going this way why dont you just remove all relics and all dyna because there will be no point in it apart from a few relic swap in gears.

but theres nothing worse when you work for 2 years to get your first relic (excaliber for me) tell me FFXI whats the point paying 10 mill for vial umbrals for 2 or 3 extra damage when delve has like 60 extra damage, have to say there was no thought in this at all

[Dazusu]

Q_Q, Q_Q, Q_Q

[Infidi]

They already said they were gonna upgrade the relic weapons in the future to make them more in line with delve weapons. ^^

[Vold]

as been a player since 2009 and worked hard for getting 2 relics and then working on 3rd which im on stage 5 and now you bring out weapons in delve and crafting that are way better than relics.

now if its going this way why dont you just remove all relics and all dyna because there will be no point in it apart from a few relic swap in gears.

but theres nothing worse when you work for 2 years to get your first relic (excaliber for me) tell me FFXI whats the point paying 10 mill for vial umbrals for 2 or 3 extra damage when delve has like 60 extra damage, have to say there was no thought in this at allQuick, with me! We must get to da choppa. Don't speak a word. They will only attack you if you speak. No sport. Once we're up in the air I will debrief you on the current intel of the RME situation.

[Taint2]

as been a player since 2009 and worked hard for getting 2 relics and then working on 3rd which im on stage 5 and now you bring out weapons in delve and crafting that are way better than relics.

now if its going this way why dont you just remove all relics and all dyna because there will be no point in it apart from a few relic swap in gears.

but theres nothing worse when you work for 2 years to get your first relic (excaliber for me) tell me FFXI whats the point paying 10 mill for vial umbrals for 2 or 3 extra damage when delve has like 60 extra damage, have to say there was no thought in this at all


Your relics aren't even 99 and you are asking for an upgrade? Finish the ones you have because they aren't boosting 95s ever.

With all this new gear my Brown Belt is now out of date, when will SE upgrade my Brown Belt???

[Demon6324236]

when will SE upgrade my Brown Belt???That reminds me, where is Black Belt's upgrade?

[Zephrose]

http://tf2wiki.net/w/images/thumb/0/0b/Meettheheavy4.PNG/350px-Meettheheavy4.PNGQ_Q for me Saammore!

[Tickmeoff]

SE, I made a weapon 2 years ago and it is no longer the best weapon in the game today! How DARE you force me to change the gear that I worked so hard for years ago!

An MMO is a constantly changing world. Gear gets outdated eventually. Get over it.

[Demon6324236]

An MMO is a constantly changing world. Gear gets outdated eventually. Get over it.Again with the same stupid response from yet another person who fails to understand the concept that people play this specific MMO partly because it is different from that normal formula. Many people here are here for the very fact they liked progression to keep everything close & in use, so we could get some use from our gear, it made goals feel worth doing, now, I can barely get off my ass anymore to go get Bayld so I can obtain the best GA I have access to, or the amazing RDM gear that just came out, why? Because it just doesn't feel worth it anymore, it feels like a waste of my time, there is no joy or entertainment in it anymore because all my effort has been wiped out since SoA was released for the most part, how can I build motivation to work on things after that? I cant, simple. If you want a MMO to outdate everything constantly, that's what the other ones all do, go play them, this ones been different, I rather it stay that way, rather than conform/transform into something I hate.

[Zephrose]

Again with the same stupid response from yet another person who fails to understand the concept that people play this specific MMO partly because it is different from that normal formula. Many people here are here for the very fact they liked progression to keep everything close & in use, so we could get some use from our gear, it made goals feel worth doing, now, I can barely get off my ass anymore to go get Bayld so I can obtain the best GA I have access to, or the amazing RDM gear that just came out, why? Because it just doesn't feel worth it anymore, it feels like a waste of my time, there is no joy or entertainment in it anymore because all my effort has been wiped out since SoA was released for the most part, how can I build motivation to work on things after that? I cant, simple. If you want a MMO to outdate everything constantly, that's what the other ones all do, go play them, this ones been different, I rather it stay that way, rather than conform/transform into something I hate.

This mostly tells me you dislike change and especially hate change with it is outside your favor. A game is meant to challenge you in new and exciting ways. Going back to old and boring equipment is not advancing yourself but rather holding on to the past with illusions of greatness. That might have been the approach pre-Adoulin but it is not anymore. The Dev's themselves stated it was their mistake to hold on to the past and progress everything laterally. This is the reason for the vertical movement forward. They want YOU to achieve greater heights! They don't want to continue driving something that has been around for years, they want to present us with something new. So let them!

[OmnysValefor]

Dead horse, fifteen-billionth stick but--

Pursuing REM upgrades was advancing yourself while still being proud of past accomplishments.

Demon is completely right, FFXI is the mmo that was about an uphill climb rather than an elevator. The mistake the devs have made is in trying to change that. There are TONS of other games where you can have your elevator, but there's none that I know of where 3 or 7 year old gear is not necessarily obselete..

Gear has just gotten absurd now. After this update, you won't need to try to haste-cap most the time, you just will be because it's all over absurdly good gear. It struck me as funny when I put together an (lol) PLD-DD set a few months ago and realized no tweaking was needed, because I happened to be haste capped along with good att, acc, and DA.

[Daemon]

This mostly tells me you dislike change and especially hate change with it is outside your favor. A game is meant to challenge you in new and exciting ways. Going back to old and boring equipment is not advancing yourself but rather holding on to the past with illusions of greatness. That might have been the approach pre-Adoulin but it is not anymore. The Dev's themselves stated it was their mistake to hold on to the past and progress everything laterally. This is the reason for the vertical movement forward. They want YOU to achieve greater heights! They don't want to continue driving something that has been around for years, they want to present us with something new. So let them!

If you spent 10 years of your life earning a masters degree, job experience from various jobs, earned something for putting in the time, money, only for a new job to appear that allows everyone to skip college and puts your masters degree to shame.

Then all right, that means life will be easier for everybody to earn a decent living without needing higher education.

But I believe DJ has the right to feel the way he does just like the rest of those who spent all that time and money to earn a relic. Only to be replaced instantly with something easier and better.

Good for everyone else but just not right for those that thought it was worth the effort to earn what they thought were the best. And we are not talking about a 20 mil item. Some of these relics go beyond 200 mil+.

And daily limit of accessing Dyna for currency ect makes it longer to work on their relics than Delve allowing anyone to earn plasm anytime as many times as you want per day.

[Daemon]

Damage has been done. I think SE should now remove the access Dyna once per day to make it fair for those wanting to make a relic now. Pointless to dedicate all that time and effort on something that you can get a way better weapon than this in a fraction of the time without having to spend any gil.

[Zephrose]

If you spent 10 years of your life earning a masters degree, job experience from various jobs, earned something for putting in the time, money, only for a new job to appear that allows everyone to skip college and puts your masters degree to shame.

Then all right, that means life will be easier for everybody to earn a decent living without needing higher education.

But I believe DJ has the right to feel the way he does just like the rest of those who spent all that time and money to earn a relic. Only to be replaced instantly with something easier and better.

Good for everyone else but just not right for those that thought it was worth the effort to earn what they thought were the best. And we are not talking about a 20 mil item. Some of these relics go beyond 200 mil+.

And daily limit of accessing Dyna for currency ect makes it longer to work on their relics than Delve allowing anyone to earn plasm anytime as many times as you want per day.

This happens in life all the time. Using a degree might not be the best analogy, however. People move from job responsibilities all the time. Times change and once old practices become easier with newer technology. It's not to say the old practices or tools are not useful, they are merely inefficient.

We see this same concept in the game already. It has just not fully taken shape until now. Rather than trying to hold on to something that will eventually become obsolete again, while not move on to something more exciting, new and challenging.

I'll be the first to say I like the old stuff as much as the last. I love salvage and will continue to gain pieces from it. But I'm not going to use them over other pieces that would otherwise make me stronger and fulfill mode role more effectively.

Just get over it and move forward. You never know, you might end up enjoying it more than you think.

[FrankReynolds]

I'll just pose a few questions then.

There were overlaps between relics and mythic. Why do they have to be made obsolete now?

There were overlaps between Relics Mythics and Empyrian weapons. Why do they have to be obsolete now?

If they gave people the option of doing dynamis, salvage, abyssea or delve to get an ultimate weapon, how would that hurt you?

Why do the same people who complain about lazy casuals getting something for free also think that people who worked hard for months / years for gear should have it become crap compared to things that were obtained in a day?

[Zephrose]

I'll just pose a few questions then.

There were overlaps between relics and mythic. Why do they have to be made obsolete now?

There were overlaps between Relics Mythics and Empyrian weapons. Why do they have to be obsolete now?

If they gave people the option of doing dynamis, salvage, abyssea or delve to get an ultimate weapon, how would that hurt you?

Why do the same people who complain about lazy casuals getting something for free also think that people who worked hard for months / years for gear should have it become crap compared to things that were obtained in a day?

Simply this, "Time wins all MMOs."

Not everyone has the time to play more than 2-3hrs a night, let alone every other night. For those that have outside livesl; a 9-5 jobs, children, social friends, a 2nd job, and so forth... This allows them to catch up at a more accelerated rate while still being second rate to some of the higher end gear.

If you spent days, months or years on completing some virtual bit to give you a woody, good for you. I spent 9 months to get an ochain solo, on and off from the game, and I was happy with the end result. Even now, with changes to the game, I'll be happy if they came out with another shield that made Ochain obsolete. Just means I will have to start working on that, which might take me another 9 months.

Really, in the end, it is your right to feel the way you do. No one is taking that feeling away from you. I'm simply saying, give it a break and try something new. Crying about the past isn't going to make now or the future happier.

[Demon6324236]

This mostly tells me you dislike change and especially hate change with it is outside your favor.I am fine with change, what I am not fine with is playing a game which plays differently than most others simply for that fact, only for that game to change to conform to what other games of its genre do. This game has been different than many other games around for a while now, its been special in a way for that reason, people like myself who do not like or want our items to be outdated every month or two have had a home here. Now, if this all changes, if things are outdated left and right, and we keep progressing in this kind of way, what happens to that special part of the game that was different? Its gone. So I oppose this change? Yes, but not for the fact of it being change, but rather, I am against what this method of change brings with it, you want to give me new armors but make them faster to get? Fine, weapons have to say though, to much work people have put into those, and the armor can not take forever for the majority of players to get, otherwise you kill off most incentive to do it, as people will feel like its to much work for such a short lived reward.


A game is meant to challenge you in new and exciting ways. Going back to old and boring equipment is not advancing yourself but rather holding on to the past with illusions of greatness. That might have been the approach pre-Adoulin but it is not anymore.The amount of people leaving since such a change was made seems to have increased immensely as well, to simply ignore that fact would be foolish, and an enormous error on SE's part. I agree that gear should be upgraded, but there is no reason to kill off something people worked so hard on and think of as a personal treasure. For instance, look at Salvage II gear, it was upgraded, made a +1 version, it was gear many people worked hard to get and once it was upgraded some people were more than happy to wear it once again with better stats. I do not think a piece of 75 gear should beat out a piece of 99 gear, but a piece of 75 gear which was hard to obtain should be upgraded into 99 gear in some form so that people can hold onto it, and keep it useful. This is much the same as what happened to Relics & Mythics, and it did wonders for pleasing the playerbase who had these weapons, as everyone with them kept a symbol of their hard work & effort, it was not simply shoved aside. Perhaps the cause of more people leaving this game now is because their approach is different, and people simply do not like the new approach, causing them to leave. Just because you change directions, does not mean its a good one.


The Dev's themselves stated it was their mistake to hold on to the past and progress everything laterally.They also said Abyssea was a mistake, one of the most rewarding and enjoyable things they added, which was not even a full expansion, rather, an add-on with cloned zones of places we already had. Just because they say its a mistake, does not mean it is one, they think some of their best things in this game are failures it seems, after all, Abyssea had flaws, but it brought a lot to the game that helped out, like faster leveling so people could play more jobs easily, or actually rewarding players more quickly without horrible drops, 24~72 hour pop times, and such. They already called one of their successes a mistake, and I think they are doing the same here.


This is the reason for the vertical movement forward. They want YOU to achieve greater heights! They don't want to continue driving something that has been around for years, they want to present us with something new. So let them!Its not something new though, its devaluing all of my previous work. I worked hard over a 6 month period to build an Excalibur, a great sword of legend I have heard of since I was a small child, one of the first things I saw when joining this game, something I looked at the requirements for and thought I could never obtain. I went through 6 months of hard work to build that sword, I was incredibly happy when I finished it because I knew it was special, it was the best, and it was an accomplishment, I enjoyed knowing that through all that hard work, I got something worth it all. Now that 6 months I spent, seems like it was a waste. After all that time, all that work, the effort, the time, even the stress I occasionally put myself through because I just wanted to finish it, and I hated Dynamis, but in the end, it was a waste for now. I did all of that, worked so hard, and now a weapon from a giant red dinosaur completely trumps it in every possible way. There are is another weapon which are stronger as well, not by a small bit, by a mile, Halachunic, which I own, and it had me store away my Excalibur.

In the end, I do not want something new, I do not want these toys I am trying for right now. I want them in the sense that right now, I have to get them, or be very weak by compare to others around me. But I do not want them in the same sense I wanted Excalibur. Excalibur was special, it was a hard goal, but a worthy one, and upon finishing it, I felt like I did something worth all of that time, these new weapons bring nothing of that feeling. Instead of bringing me that, it feels like it was all put to shame, a waste, so do not ask me to accept that, do not ask me to just move on, ignore the old weapon I worked so hard for, all the time I put in, instead, try to understand why people are so attached, why people care so deeply. We do not care so much because we hate change, its not because we do not like new items, its because we worked so hard for this, it should not be taken away with so little care, and us forced to move on. To take away the power my Excalibur had, to make it nothing more than second rate, a weak old sword from a forgotten time when Adoulin was nothing more than a far off country we heard of once or twice, is the same to me as devaluing my accomplishment, as though it meant nothing in the end, when to me it meant something, & I feel it is unjust to simply take that away from someone, and make it so weak by compare, when it deserves to be special, powerful, and even legendary, much as its name suggests of it.

[Renaissance2K]

Square-Enix recognizes that Relic, Mythic and Empyrean Weapon owners are unhappy with the gap in performance between those weapons and the weapons received from Delve battles.

To address this concern, Broker Moogles will be placed in Windurst Walls, Port Bastok, and Port San d'Oria that will allow you to exchange the weapons for items that Square-Enix considers to be more valuable in today's in-game gear economy.

Players will have the option of redeeming one of the following items:

- Chocobo Masque +2 (same as a Chocobo's Masque +1, with one additional DEF)
- Chocobo Suit +2 (Dispense: Chocopass)
- Cuddly Shank (spawns Moth, drops Offending Ring)
- Honey Sippy Cup (spawns Fafnope, drops Ridiculous)
- Blue Pondscum (spawns Adamantoy, drops... what the heck does Adamantoise drop anyway?)
- Charm Candy (temporarily transforms your character's haircut; one-time use)

In other words, everything's going to be fine.

[Demon6324236]

Crying about the past isn't going to make now or the future happier.How is one to suggest change unless it by complaints? Surely something which is not complained about is accepted, and something accepted need not be changed. If changing back to what we once had is the only way to make things happier for people like myself, then would the future not hold some promise of such happiness only so long as we do our part to offer feedback & complaints as we do? After all, if we say nothing, chances are it will be accepted as something good, and as such will never be changed, leaving us in nothing but misery, or simply leading us to leave the game, while not going to another as its once different concepts for how progression shall work are of a dying breed, one I have not seen in recent years from any game besides this.

[Raksha]

A game is meant to challenge you in new and exciting ways.


ITT farming 30k plasm is challenging.

Riddle me this batman. Why can't I take my Bravura, farm 30k plasm, and get a Bravura that is comparable to my bloodbath axe? Then turn in a rockfin tooth to make it comparable to razorfury?

[FrankReynolds]

Simply this, "Time wins all MMOs."

Not everyone has the time to play more than 2-3hrs a night, let alone every other night. For those that have outside livesl; a 9-5 jobs, children, social friends, a 2nd job, and so forth... This allows them to catch up at a more accelerated rate while still being second rate to some of the higher end gear.

If you spent days, months or years on completing some virtual bit to give you a woody, good for you. I spent 9 months to get an ochain solo, on and off from the game, and I was happy with the end result. Even now, with changes to the game, I'll be happy if they came out with another shield that made Ochain obsolete. Just means I will have to start working on that, which might take me another 9 months.

Really, in the end, it is your right to feel the way you do. No one is taking that feeling away from you. I'm simply saying, give it a break and try something new. Crying about the past isn't going to make now or the future happier.

All I'm saying is this. They can add options to do things in different ways that all have roughly the same result. IE. dynamis, delve, salvage, abyssea, etc. They can make those in ways that limit their availability. IE. This event only gives the desired reward in X amount of time if you are solo. Hence groups won't want to do it. That's okay, because groups of six can do this other event that rewards them with basically the same drops in the same amount of time. This third option give roughly the same Items in roughly the same time but requires 18 people. They can use these same events to upgrade current gear / weapons thus allowing people who have current weapons to be on par with new weapons by doing the same events if they choose.

That's just a basic outline. There are obviously a myriad of tweaks and whatnot that would have to be done to make it work. Everything doesn't have to be destroyed in order to add new content. They can add new drops that are better and add new upgrades to old content from the same content. That way, if you have X item and they release a new item that is better than X, instead of having to toss your hard earned X, you can build onto it, or use the points, items , etc. to build on. Or, you can use them to build the new equivalent.

I'm obviously just touching the tip of the iceberg here, but I think you get the point. New content doesn't have to obsolete old content. They can all play nicely.

[Zephrose]

I'm not going to argue to anyone's point. There are too many people all saying the same thing in different phrasings. If you want to keep the items/weapons you worked on for so long and hard on, by all means do. But please do not let it hinder the forward movement with bigger and better things. An MMO is meant to be an ever evolving and changing society. If you want to stay stagnate, go for it. Plenty of games already allow that.

Certain items will be timeless, but that's not to say all items will be. If you choose to spend time on making something for as long as it takes, really who's fault is that? Not the devs... No one put a gun to your head to make such a thing.

And to say stay quiet about your opinions... I never said such a thing. Your opinions are as much valued as the next person. And remember what assuming makes out of you and me?

[OmnysValefor]

How does Ukon 99 becoming as good as Ixtab hinder anyone else's progress?

I have 3 REMs. All for PLD. Aegis, Ochain, and Almace. None are 99 because I just didn't see a point, so if the update comes to aegis and ochain, I will have a lot of gil to save. At valefor prices, I'm looking at 230m gil to upgrade my shields and 150m to make a 99 excal (I want one.). So in pushing and hoping for RME updates, including shield skill for Ochain and Aegis, I'm only burdening myself with work.

[detlef]

You should've put that effort into your gets-me-by BRD.

[OmnysValefor]

Lol, hey phil

trollin me ; ;

[Demon6324236]

Certain items will be timeless, but that's not to say all items will be. If you choose to spend time on making something for as long as it takes, really who's fault is that? Not the devs... No one put a gun to your head to make such a thing.Certain items, the only items I think we really care about to this extent is RMEs, I think if it were anything else outdated it would possibly get a couple complaints but nothing the size of this, and nothing that would result in people quitting really.

As for them not forcing us, they did not force us, that is true enough, however they also never showed any sign or warning of outdating these weapons. Normally something that takes this much time, effort, and overall is this far above the rest would never be outdated in such a way, at least, not in anything I have ever put interest into. Doing so only serves to anger those who went through it all to get to that point only to have it taken away. So while they may not have forced us, they did in a way mislead us. They made us think they would never be outdated to the point of having other weapons so much stronger than them, I have had some people tell me they even said it themselves as a definitive thing, that they would not outdate them. But if they did or not, the fact remains that we did work hard for these items, and if they were going to out date them so easily with things gotten so much faster, why keep the requirements the same? In all honesty I have never understood why in a game someone would go after item A when item B is easier to get, faster to get, and overall better in almost every single way. It makes no sense. So to put blame on the players rather than SE when they are the ones who did make this change, not us, and we never requested it, it seems quite unfair. Its not right to blame someone for what someone else caused, in this case, we made these weapons because they made them the best, special, and overall desirable, while saying they would not be surpassed, but at the same time, people like myself are the ones being told SE is not to blame, but its us. I do not understand that concept.


And to say stay quiet about your opinions... I never said such a thing. Your opinions are as much valued as the next person. And remember what assuming makes out of you and me?You do not say it outright, no, but when people do complain about subjects like these their feedback & complaints are degraded by being called whining or crying, rather than being accepted as honest complaints. You yourself did say...
Crying about the past isn't going to make now or the future happier. Which to me, degrades the counterargument in a sense. It is in a way saying to just deal with it, and that our opinions should be kept to ourselves, as its only crying about the past, and it will not change anything for the better in the end.

[Umichi]

playing victim doesn't help much either, TBH relics have been around for how long? and the longevity of these weapons have only been beacuase of the fact that we stayed at 75? then 99 hit you all got the upgrade to relics that you wanted and again it's been how many years? can you allow developers to catch up on content instead of consistently working on the same stuff over and over again... these weapons can get you straight up from mid level content into the highest endgame (delve) from the get-go, and still you want more. Which is understandable, but really they said they are making adjustments IDK why people keep going on and on about them.....

[Umichi]

I save my past weapons, why don't you? you obviously took great pride in making them otherwise you wouldn't have made them.

[FrankReynolds]

I save my past weapons, why don't you?

You haven't seen any threads about the lack of storage space in this game huh? Interesting.

[Demon6324236]

I save my past weapons, why don't you?I do not have the room to afford such things. I have about 30 space right now free out of my 480 space, that 30 is mostly kept for new gear, drops, and anything else I may need to store at some point for later use. Keeping old weapons such as you suggest simply would not fit in with my inventory limits I have.


you obviously took great pride in making them otherwise you wouldn't have made them.This is true, but any sane person would not go out and spend millions of dollars on a car only to have it sit in a garage. I did not make my Excalibur just so that I could put it in my storage, I want to use that which I built, the weapon I sought after, to simply store it and have it as nothing more than a trophy still insults the amount of effort & time I put into making that weapon. Just storing my weapon is not a solution in my opinion, it is simply giving up a great deal of its meaning & power, and loses some sentimental value to me as it serves in a way to torture me, reminding me of the work put forth only to be canceled out so easily a short time ago.


You haven't seen any threads about the lack of storage space in this game huh? Interesting.I am sure he has seen them, but due to his method of play, using what seems to be very few gear swaps & such, I doubt he fully understands the issue to the extent we do. While he has the freedom to do such a thing with his space, we lack that freedom by the large quantity of gear we acquire for multiple jobs and situations. So while he sees the threads, he does not see the problem as clearly as we do most likely, and suggests something that works for him even if it would not work the same for us. I mean in no way to say he does not understand either, he may, but in either case it does not take away the fact that we simply can not do it the same way because of inventory, and someone which does not go to such extents would not have the same issues, or likely the same level of understanding.

[Zohno]

They simply decided to kill (or reduce) the importance of any past event with overpowered items because they had to push people in Adoulin, because in their heads it was ok to force players to join server wide reives (I think they poorly tried to copy FFXIV fates) to access deeper areas on the map, a wonderful idea that will bring only more issues when none will spend time on them anymore and everyone will be stuck to the borders of the maps, or do the same quests over and over to keep coalitions on top or reduce the price of wildskeeper KIs.

It's not just REMs, the whole past game has been devalued.

[Daemon]

They simply decided to kill (or reduce) the importance of any past event with overpowered items because they had to push people in Adoulin, because in their heads it was ok to force players to join server wide reives (I think they poorly tried to copy FFXIV fates) to access deeper areas on the map, a wonderful idea that will bring only more issues when none will spend time on them anymore and everyone will be stuck to the borders of the maps, or do the same quests over and over to keep coalitions on top or reduce the price of wildskeeper KIs.

It's not just REMs, the whole past game has been devalued.

Devalued? I don't think they know what that means...

[Daniel]

I like how all these "casual" players think that the game is better with all our shit being useless in every update. Sooner or later they will realize how shitty this game is when all the players who actually got things done stop logging on. I mean who do you think it is that makes it possible for you to do a wildskeeper. Do you think that a NQ pld with NQ healers and NQ DD are just going to run in there and kill them? There could be 250 of you and it still would not die.

[FrankReynolds]

I'm so awesome that you all would be helpless without me!!!

LOL get over yourself. You're not that cool.

[Tickmeoff]

boohoo muh gear is outdated and I don't wanna get new stuff waaah

Just quit the game and move on. This game has evolved beyond what you want.

[Peepiopi]

It's always the same few people complaining about this. We can probably chalk this up to a stubborn vocal majority on the forums. Wonder why no one ever complains about this stuff in-game?

[FrankReynolds]

It's always the same few people complaining about this. We can probably chalk this up to a stubborn vocal majority on the forums. Wonder why no one ever complains about this stuff in-game?

Not that I agree or disagree with you, but where exactly do you hear complaints at all in the game? Just random people shouting "I hate this game!"?

[OmnysValefor]

It's always the same few people complaining about this. We can probably chalk this up to a stubborn vocal majority on the forums. Wonder why no one ever complains about this stuff in-game?

Uh, there was a vocal majority in-game and out of game across most servers and all forums.

I won't say a lot of people quit, but more probably quit in reaction to this than most other of SE's shenanigans. Certainly, some amount more would have quit if SE had not replied with promises of fixing it.

As with any other upset, on any topic, whether it be this game, politics, or how your co-worker smells. At some point, most just stop saying the same thing over and over.

Some people, as you can see in this topic, prefer to keep reminding SE that we haven't forgotten.

[Plasticleg]

You are all elitists.
Why the hECK isn't my bronze +1 set acceptalbe for a pt.
I leveled up a craft for it and it too km e a long time.
I'M SORRY THGAT IDONB"T HAVE A YEER TO SPDN ON A VIDEO GOEMA!
S.E. you jstu losdt anoytgjer players from
(<3Z2)

[FrankReynolds]

You are all elitists.
Why the hECK isn't my bronze +1 set acceptalbe for a pt.
I leveled up a craft for it and it too km e a long time.
I'M SORRY THGAT IDONB"T HAVE A YEER TO SPDN ON A VIDEO GOEMA!
S.E. you jstu losdt anoytgjer players from

I don't know what you just said kid, but you're special.

[Demon6324236]

Just quit the game and move on. This game has evolved beyond what you want.Try reading & comprehending a post then formulating a proper response rather than editing my post into worthless bullshit & replying to it in that form. Once you can do this, perhaps your argument may be meaningful, till then if this is the best you can do so far as a reply, you do nothing but make yourself look like an idiot incapable of properly replying because your argument is to weak.

[Hawklaser]

Your relics aren't even 99 and you are asking for an upgrade? Finish the ones you have because they aren't boosting 95s ever.

With all this new gear my Brown Belt is now out of date, when will SE upgrade my Brown Belt???

I don't even have a RME and I am worried about them. Not because they need upgraded at all levels, but I understand the huge investment of time and resources that many put into getting them. That and Relic and Mythics were a great long term goals one could have for a job they really enjoyed, and the reward for actually finishing one something many looked forward to.

The whole thing comes back to return on investment, what is the point in investing heavily in something that may be worthless in a matter of days? That is to say, ever since Delve came out there is no reason for many to start or continue working on a RME weapon currently. That would change as soon as RME updates become more assured, but until that happens they are about as real and likely to be added as Cait Sith. After all, look how long summoners have been waiting for Cait Sith to go from told about it to it actually being implemented.

[Daemon]

I don't even have a RME and I am worried about them. Not because they need upgraded at all levels, but I understand the huge investment of time and resources that many put into getting them. That and Relic and Mythics were a great long term goals one could have for a job they really enjoyed, and the reward for actually finishing one something many looked forward to.

The whole thing comes back to return on investment, what is the point in investing heavily in something that may be worthless in a matter of days? That is to say, ever since Delve came out there is no reason for many to start or continue working on a RME weapon currently. That would change as soon as RME updates become more assured, but until that happens they are about as real and likely to be added as Cait Sith. After all, look how long summoners have been waiting for Cait Sith to go from told about it to it actually being implemented.

Exactly, especially Mythic. How many people can make more than 1 or 2 easily? Most people still killing themselves trying to make their first... Hello 30k alexandrite?? Red light..

[Daniel]

Its not just that our gear is getting outdated, I don't mind new gear coming out and outdating old gear assuming its harder to get. No the thing that bothers me is that a new hat came out with twice the stats that a normal piece of gear has. You new players might not think much about it, and to be honest you shouldn't because most of you probably won't be able to get that kind of gear. For the rest of us though its a clear gap. If you don't have that specific piece of gear your obsolete in comparison to someone who does.

In the past when new gear came out, yes, often it replaced your old gear, but only by a small margin such that if you didn't rush out to get it you were still capable of competing. This is no longer the case.

[Daemon]

Its not just that our gear is getting outdated, I don't mind new gear coming out and outdating old gear assuming its harder to get. No the thing that bothers me is that a new hat came out with twice the stats that a normal piece of gear has. You new players might not think much about it, and to be honest you shouldn't because most of you probably won't be able to get that kind of gear. For the rest of us though its a clear gap. If you don't have that specific piece of gear your obsolete in comparison to someone who does.

In the past when new gear came out, yes, often it replaced your old gear, but only by a small margin such that if you didn't rush out to get it you were still capable of competing. This is no longer the case.

Once you obtain one of the new gears, it pretty much separates you from everyone else. Then you gotta wait for people to play catch just so you don't feel like you are the only one more powerful than the rest.

[Peepiopi]

Not many people are complaining about this in-game because they're out getting Forefront or better weapons quicker and more efficiently than farming RME weapons. Since Forefront weapons are easy to get, that makes quite a bit of the game pretty accessible where somethings might have been more difficult with weapons not quite as powerful. Also these days, people generally don't care to spend hours upon hours grinding out weapons from old content just to run end-game content. They probably want to earn it from the end-game content itself. If I were a new player and just hit 99 only to be told "Sorry, you can't come with us to fight this boss unless you spend months farming this weapon", I'd probably stop playing.

If you're still complaining after considering that, then I think that you're just being stubborn and a little bit selfish. However, if you still like your RME weapons, that's fine because SE said they're going to upgrade them in time. Though you'll probably still complain if the best Delve weapons are better than the upgrades anyway, so I suppose it'll be lose/lose for you complainers any way you look at it :p

[OmnysValefor]

As I've said before, relics represent an attitude about the job. The same people who won't build relics/empies for their jobs also typically wouldn't do anything else hard to get the best armor.

Also, I'm a bit speechless that Peep would bring forefront weapons into the conversation. . .

[Peepiopi]

As I've said before, relics represent an attitude about the job. The same people who won't build relics/empies for their jobs also typically wouldn't do anything else hard to get the best armor.

Also, I'm a bit speechless that Peep would bring forefront weapons into the conversation. . .

You're confusing "hard to get" with "taking a long time to get". RME weapons are not "hard to get", they are just a grind and a time sink. Just about any job can solo or duo them with no problem. On the other hand before the cap was raised, getting a Ninurta's sash was hard to get, or maybe a Kirin's Osode waaaay back when it took hours to kill Kirin. Those were hard to get. If there is anything in this game right now that is challenging, it's the delve bosses, and they happen to drop the best items in the game. And you're complaining that Relics don't compare to that? Please...

RME weapons post-abyssea are not hard to get. And if you happened to get your Relics before the cap was raised, then that is a fantastic achievement for you, and congrats! But if you're going to say that people who don't build RMEs aren't willing to tackle hard content, then you're crazy.

[Hawklaser]

As I've said before, relics represent an attitude about the job. The same people who won't build relics/empies for their jobs also typically wouldn't do anything else hard to get the best armor.

Also, I'm a bit speechless that Peep would bring forefront weapons into the conversation. . .

Agreed on the attitude part, especially for the average person who doesn't have the means to just buy everything they need to make one. As even someone that was planning to build one for a job, they would often try and take those extra steps for armor as well. Can usually tell who is jumping on the bandwagon for a job or not due to it as well, only gets hard when come across players who have end game equipment coming out of their ears.

I would wager that the many who care about Relics and Mythics being updated is not because they see those items as putting them in the elite endgame crowd, but more because they see them as a way to show their dedication and love for a job. Would also wager those same people would have gone and built Relic, Mythic, and Emp. for a job if all three were relevant and good for different events.

The only reason they have been kept the best over the years, is because of the massive investment required for them. Those of us wanting them to be upgraded, is not to keep them as the very best, but within the group of the best of the best weapons, because of the massive investment to get them in the first place and not due to a fear of change.

Most MMO's have a gear ladder system where there is only one real top, FFXI used to have a gear mountain range with multiple peaks, may not always be equal height but they were close enough for variety to exist. Which is one thing in the developers control that has managed to retain people outside of the story. FFXI is one MMO I did not really see player retention as a problem because of that, FFXI's biggest problem for staying alive I always saw being attracting new players. The whole current perception of going from a gear mountain range to a gear ladder system is what is causing people to be so upset about RME and the future of the game, as it is killing one of the things the developers did right to set the game apart from every other MMO.

Now if only an MMO would come out that could apply that mountain range concept to both gear and content.

[OmnysValefor]

No Peep, read again..

I'm complaining that you compared Forefront weapons to Relic weapons. Forefront weapons aren't even worth calling stepping stones and never have been.

And I agree that nothing is hard to get, beyond dedicating yourself to the task, and the people that wouldn't dedicate themselves to a REM won't dedicate themselves to other things that require a significant personal effort.

[Peepiopi]

And I agree that nothing is hard to get, beyond dedicating yourself to the task, and the people that wouldn't dedicate themselves to a REM won't dedicate themselves to other things that require a significant personal effort.

That's laughably silly. I literally laughed when I read this lol. In some LSes people have fully upgraded RME weapons before they even hit 99. Having an RME does not prove anything about the player. That's a silly rationale.

Also Forefront/Skirmish weapons have comparable DPS to RMEs currently, and according to the Japanese Test server those weapons (along with Nak and Delve weapons) might also be getting some impressive stat boost for + Combat skills soon. If you don't think that they are good weapons, then either you've never bothered to looked at their stats, or you're out of your mind.

If a player knows the fights, has those weapons, and have decent gear, then there is really no excuse to prevent them from entering some NM fights. If you are the type of player that would not invite players to even Tier I-V NM fights because they don't have an RME, then you're just being a snobby elitist...

[FrankReynolds]

That's laughably silly. I literally laughed when I read this lol. In some LSes people have fully upgraded RME weapons before they even hit 99. Having an RME does not prove anything about the player. That's a silly rationale.

No it's not. The kind of shells that pump out weapons like that aren't going to let idiots build weapons with them. If a guy got a pair of 99 vera before he even dinged 99 on monk, there's a good chance he's been kicking ass on some other job and he will on monk too.


Also Forefront/Skirmish weapons have comparable DPS to RMEs currently, and according to the Japanese Test server those weapons (along with Nak and Delve weapons) might also be getting some impressive stat boost for + Combat skills soon. If you don't think that they are good weapons, then either you've never bothered to looked at their stats, or you're out of your mind.

Unfortunately, the delve and boss weapons will be getting even bigger boosts to skill which means a huge gap in accuracy, which is even worse than being lower damage. All the damage in the world doesn't mean crap if you can't hit anything.

[Demon6324236]

That's laughably silly. I literally laughed when I read this lol. In some LSes people have fully upgraded RME weapons before they even hit 99. Having an RME does not prove anything about the player. That's a silly rationale.What does this have to do with what he said? Yay some people have fully upgraded RMEs before they hit 99 on a job, but that doesn't mean it took any less work or dedication to make. I could make myself a Relic PA over the course of the next 2 months, my DRG is level 55, it still takes the same dedication as though I was a level 99 DRG with decked out gear.


Also Forefront/Skirmish weapons have comparable DPS to RMEs currently, and according to the Japanese Test server those weapons (along with Nak and Delve weapons) might also be getting some impressive stat boost for + Combat skills soon. If you don't think that they are good weapons, then either you've never bothered to looked at their stats, or you're out of your mind.Probably laughable because you brought up a weapon that is no where near close to relics in time or dedication to make, they are easy little tools for Reives, and yes, going to be stronger than RMEs are because SE is determined to make every single thing before Adoulin completely meaningless at this point.

[Hayward]

First off, anyone calling forefront weapons junk needs their heads examined/removed from orifices they don't belong. Unless and until a LS in Cerberus is going to assist me in building Relic or Empyrean weapons or let me into their exclusive Delve club with the weapons I have, Forefront stuff (with some exceptions) will do for me. Level 106, last I checked, is better than 99 and my Avatars, Jug Pets, and Automaton can prove that. I wouldn't mind going for level 113~117 weapons in the future but anyone calling for people to have Delve weapons before they can even farm plasm is a damn fool.

All this nonsense makes me wonder which elitists are worse, the ones who put people down for not having Relic weapons or the ones who laugh at those of us who don't have Delve weapons.

[FrankReynolds]

anyone calling for people to have Delve weapons before they can even farm plasm is a damn fool.


Not really. I mean even if they are just gonna kill the fodder mobs, killing faster means faster repops. This wouldn't be an issue if the weapons were closer in comparison, but they're really far apart.

I don't like it and I wouldn't reject anyone from a fodder run for having a forefront weapon, but at the same time... If you have a choice, who are you gonna choose?

[OmnysValefor]

If a player knows the fights, has those weapons, and have decent gear, then there is really no excuse to prevent them from entering some NM fights. If you are the type of player that would not invite players to even Tier I-V NM fights because they don't have an RME, then you're just being a snobby elitist...

If everyone walked into a delve with forefront weapons, you might not even kill 3 NMs / you'd have a 3k run. You can have your "lolz" response, but the truth is that some people half-bake everything they do in this game, and they're fine with that. Others take being the best they can be as a personal challenge.

Remember also that NM's do things like become more and more resistant to stun over time. The way to combat that is your scholars having the best m.acc kits they can have, and your DPS making things die as quickly as possible.

Some people play Monopoly to have fun, others intend to own the whole board before the game is done.

BTW, I'm pretty sure empy 85 / relic 95s would outparse forefront weapons, considering aftermaths, and sometimes great ws's like CDC.

[Daemon]

Friday July 26th. Players log. What is relic again?

[Demon6324236]

BTW, I'm pretty sure empy 85 / relic 95s would outparse forefront weapons, considering aftermaths, and sometimes great ws's like CDC.Well that's partly correct, any weapon where the WS is that much better such as Ukko's, Victory, or perhaps CDC, the Emp would win simply because the WS is that much better than the other WS of choice, as well as the ODD AM. Relics wont really keep up I think because the Attack & Accuracy bonus from the skill you get, where in events like Delve you need the Accuracy your weapons lack in gear, that's hen it comes down to which is better, more attack gear with a slightly weaker weapon, or a slightly stronger gear while having to put in more accuracy.

Myself, I think RMEs will lose to forefront weapons, if not, well, I am sure we will see another group of Bayld weapons soon enough which can be bought, after all, Coalitions only went up 1 extra rank and we saw a second group, next update they go up to 7, a 3 level jump, so we might see even more, who knows.

[Oalka]

I don't care about anyone's opinion on the subject except SE's.

SE: HOW LONG TIL RME WEAPONS ARE MADE RELEVANT AGAIN?

[Daemon]

I don't care about anyone's opinion on the subject except SE's.

SE: HOW LONG TIL RME WEAPONS ARE MADE RELEVANT AGAIN?

Well they don't care about anyone's opinion on the subject either otherwise we would have heard something new other than what was said already. As big as your Galka voice may be (due to caps) it still won't travel all the way over across the sea to Japan devs headquarters.. Lol

[OmnysValefor]

Myself, I think RMEs will lose to forefront weapons, if not, well, I am sure we will see another group of Bayld weapons soon enough which can be bought, after all, Coalitions only went up 1 extra rank and we saw a second group, next update they go up to 7, a 3 level jump, so we might see even more, who knows.

Yeah, I'm sure there are some more reive: weapons in the future.