(suggestion) giving TP to wyvern

[Umichi]

So I was thinking instead of stronger breaths can we get an ability that allows us to transfer a portion or our TP to our wyverns? IDK about most people but my wyvern has a hard time reaching 100% tp for a breath attack (i don't pay attention much but i know they don't aquire TP as fast as us)

I would assume higher tp would equate to more damaging breaths and would help counteract the NM breath damage negater which i Assume they put in there for this specific reason. (on top of deep breathing I would think a maxed tp/hp wyvern would be a big force to recon with...)

[Helldemon]

You would be better off just ws'ing. The only way wyverns breaths would be worth giving up tp for on NM's is if they were capable of doing like 15k damage to normal monsters lol

[Martel]

TP only adds magic acc to elemental breaths. Not DMG+. So at most, you resist less. Which would result in more DMG on high level content, but.... What a waste of an adjustment.

I'd much rather breaths didn't consume TP at all, so wyverns could actually build enough for use to spirit link some TP from them every 1:30. Additional WS>>>>Wyvern breaths.

[Babekeke]

Situationally, stronger breaths are a good idea. Generally, if a mob is flying or immune to physical damage only.

[Martel]

Situationally, stronger breaths are a good idea. Generally, if a mob is flying or immune to physical damage only.In either of those situations TP gain will be so bad you'll hardly get any breaths off anyway.(Do you even trigger a breath on a WS that got the too far away msg vs a flying mob?) It'd pretty much just be smiting breath spam.

I don't really object to stronger breaths, but wyvern TP is not the way to go about it. And if the mob is flying, or immune to physical, then the wyvern wouldn't be getting any TP either. <,<;

[Umichi]

in those situations there are generally ways for you to gain TP not your pet ala samurai then can transfer tp to pet for higher breath damage... another good example of where it would stop being situational at best is for example, I enjoy having my pet Qiqiru tank for me on occasion I wish on occasion I can transfer TP to her for better damage..... I generally use spirit link to keep my wyvern alive and I burn through her TP so fast often that It'd be nice to gift her with TP to boost damage.

[Martel]

/facepalm. nvm, I''m out.

[Helldemon]

I always forget it only enhances the macc lol.

Anyways, anything the wyvern can tank will most most likely not need the extra macc from tp. TP does nothing for the wyvern's breaths on NM's that have BDT because they have roughly 90+% BDT meaning even if wyvern was 100% macc your breath would still only do like 20 damage.

[Umichi]

my wyvern does more than 20 damage with a breath attack ty...

[Helldemon]

W/e, you're asking for a useless ja when drg has far more serious issues atm

[SpankWustler]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/no-rage-face-1.jpg

[Umichi]

for people worried about nothing but damage output.... I have the same problem except I play a different way, I't not useless it would be a great addition to a drgs arsenal.

[Babekeke]

for people worried about nothing but damage output.... I have the same problem except I play a different way, I't not useless it would be a great addition to a drgs arsenal.

Only if you're getting huge resists, since it only affects acc, not damage.

And not on anything that was released post-abyssea, since almost all mobs have huge (up to 90%) breath damage reduction, so even completely unresisted, it will only do 10% of it's potential.

[Tennotsukai]

You would be better off just ws'ing. The only way wyverns breaths would be worth giving up tp for on NM's is if they were capable of doing like 15k damage to normal monsters lol

I was thinking this same thing earlier. Good stuff!

[Helldemon]

It would be useful to one drg's arsenal in the entire game, yours. No one else would ever use this lol. As keke and others have said, this won't even do anything for your wyverns breath damage and yet you are still going on and on and on asking for it. I think the others have given up though. Yes, damage is important, sorry you only want to play solo and never be invited to any event in the game ever. I however, do not want to make it so drg's can't do any events like you lol.

[Umichi]

...... It's still a function that is usable and not unbalancing.. If it's not going to effect your game why say no? And using the excuse that they have other things on their plate is just crud cause we all know SE is slacking in that department... this is a suggestion for a future update not a "I want this right naow"

[Umichi]

I still do events ingame... just because I'm not "super ZOMG delve" doesn't mean I do not participate. I don't understand how people assume I don't....

[detlef]

I assume you are ineffective. I mean, in the other thread you suggested swapping your weapon to get more powerful healing breaths!

[Helldemon]

...... It's still a function that is usable and not unbalancing.. If it's not going to effect your game why say no? And using the excuse that they have other things on their plate is just crud cause we all know SE is slacking in that department... this is a suggestion for a future update not a "I want this right naow"

You seem to keep missing what everyone keeps repeating over and over. "IT ONLY AFFECTS ACC, NOT DAMAGE"

This would do nothing for your wyverns breath damage, anything it can tank will most likely rarely resist it and not have much BDT.

[Babekeke]

I still do events ingame... just because I'm not "super ZOMG delve" doesn't mean I do not participate. I don't understand how people assume I don't....

I assume you never get invited back.

[Umichi]

I assume you are ineffective. I mean, in the other thread you suggested swapping your weapon to get more powerful healing breaths!

no I said using a different weapon in place of your for effective healing breaths, not switching... there is a difference.

[Umichi]

I assume you never get invited back.

I actually know what I'm doing when it comes to endgame. I don't die, I watch for AoE's and my positioning and I listen to my leaders... yep I never get invited back.

Why does everyone have to be all up on me because of the way I play? doesn't effect you all in the slightest... It's always noob your doing it wrong..... *cough* last I checked SE still gives me the option to play how I wish to play..

[SpankWustler]

There isn't a dogpile on you because of how you play.

There's a dogpile on you on you because, in spite of the information being posted multiple times by multiple people, you have made no attempt to understand the difference between something being 1/2, 1/16, etc. resisted due to magic accuracy issues and a -% damage property that no amount of magic accuracy could ever overcome because that -% damage property is not related to magic accuracy in any way.

What you're suggesting equates to an attempt to get the furnace in the basement going because you're cold because your house is flooded up to the second story. It doesn't touch on the root of the problem and enacting such a "solution" will just cause other problems.

[Umichi]

resisting still equates to damage loss.... please explain how it would cause more issues though, I'm interested into how feeding tp to your wyvern would cause issues.

[SpankWustler]

The main issue is that someone might be dumb enough to actually do it.

In terms of game balance, though, it would be fine.

[Umichi]

ok so we've set-up that it won't unbalance anything...

now then... do most monsters have some form of chance at resisting the breaths? outside of the inate -90% buffer on NMs which isn't resisting it's straight up damage mitigation.

[Helldemon]

Not anything your wyvern is capable of tanking, no.

[Umichi]

Not anything your wyvern is capable of tanking, no.

so your saying my wyvern has 100% unresistable breaths to everything, in which case why would SE put in such a stupid feature for my wyverns tp? and define what my wyvern can't tank. Cause she can tank IT mobs all day long at full empathy

[Helldemon]

And your wyvern will pretty much have the cap of 95% macc on them.

[Umichi]

Are you sure? Has this been tested? If so do you have sources I could refer to?

[Hawklaser]

In all the years I have played DRG, there have only been a handful of times I can ever recall my wyvern's breath getting significant resists on its breaths. That was on higher level NM's, mobs that can receive shell, and when the wyvern chooses the wrong breath for the mob. And as to the wyvern choosing the wrong breaths frequently, that only really happened often at the lower levels when they would be fairly unlikely to be resisted anyways.

While this is all not hard testing, it did stay pretty consistent through leveling DRG to 75 pre-Abyssea, and again when leveling it again from 1-99 post-Abyssea. After all, there is a reason people are more apt to macro in gear for healing breaths and not the elemental ones.

[Umichi]

because elemental breaths damage comes from current HP not total.

[Hawklaser]

because elemental breaths damage comes from current HP not total.

Yes, but the Drg AF helm also supposedly enhances the wyvern's elemental breath choosing to hit weaknesses more frequently, which would help reduce resist rates. How many people macro it in for post WS breaths or the Smiting Breath job command? I know I never really did because if there is a difference by that point it is extremely small and not very noticeable if at all.

Also the Relic helm also improves elemental breath damage as well, but how often does it get macro'ed in for elemental breaths outside of Smiting Breath? Same could be said for Lancer's Torque as well. Though about any long term DRG player I know, does add those things if they have them for spell triggered healing breaths.

[Martel]

In all the years I have played DRG, there have only been a handful of times I can ever recall my wyvern's breath getting significant resists on its breaths.
Well, how much attention do you really pay to wyvern breath dmg? And I dunno what content you usually do, But on anything high end breaths tend to suck.

As an example. In legion, back when it was relevant content, my wyvern's avg breath dmg was 22.83. That's not eyeballed either, that's from recorded data.

This is the combined data from 6 Hall of Mul runs


Flame Breath
41 20 20 17 20 17 0 12 11 20
20 13 10 5 5 5 20 20 20 15
11 6 15 12 7 15 62 15 63 15
20 18 18 75 49 18 13 13 40 14
118 14 14 13 0 4 4 15 46 21
42 42 85 21 85 20 20 20 20 17
21 21 42 167 15 12 31 15 15 15
15 27 23 22 383 95 13 13 13 13
13 10 21 42 17 18 20 20 41 19
19 19 19 0 15 15 14 14 14 20
20 83 20 19 12 51 36 18 18 18
16 128 16

Frost Breath
21 21 21 19 15 14 7 7 7 7
6 34 4 17 17 17 17 15 15 15
11 18 18 18 18 6 6 3 21 20
21 127 11 15 15 21 21 21 21 21
20 15 15 26 13 97 12 12 5 6
24 4 11 11 11 11 15 15 15 15
21 21 21 18 15 6 6 4 4 15
38 15 15 15 15 19 10 10 10 10
7 6 6 6 4 1 20 15 15 20
14 14 14 14 10

Lightning Breath
17 17 18 9 12 17 17 74 37 149
18 37 13 18 18 18 4 16 16 17
17 17 17 15 15 18 18 18 18 18
10 17 36 18 18 18 18 21 17 17
37 17 17 17

Out of 252 breaths, I appear to have one, un-resisted breath. And It may have been with Deep breathing.

Although, the recent Item level update for pets appears to have greatly increased wyvern Breath acc. It's still far from reliable on major NMs though.

Here's a small sample on Dakuwaqa(Foret delve boss)

Using Ryunohige:


Sand Breath
39 24 47 34 77 40 344 42 29 18
46 46 47 31 36 36

Using Upukirex(ILVL119)


Sand Breath
414 414 82 330 330 165 308 154 248 248
213 213 213 516 57 91 29 29 29 60
57 489 210 345 219 237 23
It's worth noting that this really isn't a very good test. There's too many extra factors. Like the Upukirex wyvern being so much tougher, and maintaining higher HP. Resulting in higher breath dmg. But it's what I have data on hand for, so.

Still, it does show the effectiveness of ItemLevel on wyverns.


That was on higher level NM's, mobs that can receive shell, and when the wyvern chooses the wrong breath for the mob.Breaths are, not surprisingly, Breath Damage. Which is NOT affected by shell.

[Hawklaser]

Well, how much attention do you really pay to wyvern breath dmg? And I dunno what content you usually do, But on anything high end breaths tend to suck.

I paid enough attention to them to know approximately how much damage they would add to my weaponskills on a consistent basis. Which was enough to notice when oddities occurred.




Breaths are, not surprisingly, Breath Damage. Which is NOT affected by shell.

For players at the least. Not everything always works the same for monsters, and I do recall getting more varied numbers on monsters that had some way of receiving shell, and usually was the ones that received it from TP moves.

[Martel]

Most major NMs have some amount of Breath DMG reduction. In some cases A lot. It's the same thing that murdered atonement on nearly everything after VNMs(Voidwalker not voidwatch.)

In any case, I have little doubt that MDT works the same for mobs as players, regarding breath dmg. It'd be a simple test to do.
And being so simple, I went ahead and did it.

99DRG/RDM
Breath gear: Wyrm Armet+2, Lancer's torque, Glassblower's belt
No wyvern exp bonus
Upukirex

Mob:Orcish Protector(PLD)
A PLD can self shell, but doesn't have any MDB like most mages do.

http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/MartelRagnarok/MonsterShellvsbreathdmg.png (http://s580.photobucket.com/user/MartelRagnarok/media/MonsterShellvsbreathdmg.png.html)
That was a shell III. So if MDT worked on breath dmg for mobs, the dmg should have been reduced by 48/256(18.75%.) But it didn't change at all.

Mob or player. Makes no difference. MDT doesn't work on breath dmg.

[Umichi]

forgive my noobness but MDT?oh nvm ahahaha

[Hawklaser]

Most major NMs have some amount of Breath DMG reduction. In some cases A lot. It's the same thing that murdered atonement on nearly everything after VNMs(Voidwalker not voidwatch.)

In any case, I have little doubt that MDT works the same for mobs as players, regarding breath dmg. It'd be a simple test to do.
And being so simple, I went ahead and did it.

99DRG/RDM
Breath gear: Wyrm Armet+2, Lancer's torque, Glassblower's belt
No wyvern exp bonus
Upukirex

Mob:Orcish Protector(PLD)
A PLD can self shell, but doesn't have any MDB like most mages do.

http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/MartelRagnarok/MonsterShellvsbreathdmg.png (http://s580.photobucket.com/user/MartelRagnarok/media/MonsterShellvsbreathdmg.png.html)
That was a shell III. So if MDT worked on breath dmg for mobs, the dmg should have been reduced by 48/256(18.75%.) But it didn't change at all.

Mob or player. Makes no difference. MDT doesn't work on breath dmg.

My point was that the spell shell when casted by a mob should work the same as a players shell, but what about "Shell" gained from various TP moves. Just because they report it as the mob gaining shell does not mean it is treated exactly the same as shell, and possibly not even the same for each varied TP move that grants shell.

[Kaiichi]

To Umichi,
Having read this thread to its completion up to this point, I just would like to point out to you that your idea has in fact been intimidated in game already, just not in the form you have described. The basis of which is Deep Breathing. This Ability alone makes for a higher damaging breath, but if it was just accuracy you where focusing on, there is always Strife. This being said, I wish you luck in all you adventures.

[Babekeke]

To Umichi,
Having read this thread to its completion up to this point, I just would like to point out to you that your idea has in fact been intimidated in game already, just not in the form you have described. The basis of which is Deep Breathing. This Ability alone makes for a higher damaging breath, but if it was just accuracy you where focusing on, there is always Strife. This being said, I wish you luck in all you adventures.

I think you mean incorporated.

[Kaiichi]

lol yeah. Thanks for the fix.

[Umichi]

I concur, Strafe does do the job, and Deep breathing well but IDK the mechanics behind how it actually improves my wyverns damage outside of it's significant. But someone might not want to merit more than 2 to 3 points into strafe

I personally have mine set at 4 :)

[Babekeke]

I concur, Strafe does do the job, and Deep breathing well but IDK the mechanics behind how it actually improves my wyverns damage outside of it's significant. But someone might not want to merit more than 2 to 3 points into strafe

I personally have mine set at 4 :)

I've never had any merits in Strafe. Completely worthless until mobs that are harder than us don't have massive -BDT.

[Umichi]

perhaps but i also don't actively play in endgame so yeah not worthless to me. might be to you but thats your bias :)

[Babekeke]

The stuff in VW and legion was included in the -~90% BDT. Hardly 'end game' these days.

Anything else and you should have very little accuracy issues with, especially with a lvl 100+ polearm.

[Umichi]

don't like how I play? good thing you got your own character :)

[Ophannus]

Btw I don't have Upukirex yet but even with Ophidian, my wyvern hits Delve NMs for 80-90's with 170 crits. Not amazing but still pretty cool. Can't wait to see how much DMG it gets when I get Upukirex(need 30k more plasm @_@)

[Umichi]

lucky Ophannus! I still haven't touched a lot of the NM's in delve but that's mostly because I lack Ophidian. btw I have been a fan of your posts on ffxiah and other sites for awhile!

[Helldemon]

I've never had any merits in Strafe. Completely worthless until mobs that are harder than us don't have massive -BDT.

Wouldn't say it's completely useless, with sam's getting that new 25 save tp GKT and cors using miser's roll for them. Having relic +2 legs with augment and 5/5 strafe would net you 25 save tp, along with lucky misers would allow you to get 50 tp return on ws. Though with drg's store tp from /sam and gear even 3/5 strafe would be useful with misers/relic as that would give you a 40 tp return. If only we could merit up to 15 times in the category 2 merits.

[Martel]

Wouldn't say it's completely useless, with sam's getting that new 25 save tp GKT and cors using miser's roll for them. Having relic +2 legs with augment and 5/5 strafe would net you 25 save tp, along with lucky misers would allow you to get 50 tp return on ws. Though with drg's store tp from /sam and gear even 3/5 strafe would be useful with misers/relic as that would give you a 40 tp return. If only we could merit up to 15 times in the category 2 merits.The strafe enhancement on Wyrm +2 legs gives your wyvern save TP. Not you.

[Helldemon]

Lol, really? I always thought it was for the drg. Wow, that is quite useless, thanks for the info.

I still want 15 merits in cat 2 so I can do DB 5/5 and empathy 5/5 then lol. Actually I probably would only do empathy 4/5 and strafe 1/5 just so it still takes two spirit links to fully level Firewing. Useful when fighting NM's so that you don't lose hp to spirit link.

[Umichi]

To Umichi,
Having read this thread to its completion up to this point, I just would like to point out to you that your idea has in fact been intimidated in game already, just not in the form you have described. The basis of which is Deep Breathing. This Ability alone makes for a higher damaging breath, but if it was just accuracy you where focusing on, there is always Strife. This being said, I wish you luck in all you adventures.

but DB is on such a long CD and I have mine at 3 T.T

[Ophannus]

Breaths are still very weak in an alliance situations and will comprise less than 1% of the alliance's damage output.

[Umichi]

It's still a % :) besides the wyvern shouldn't be considered a separate fighter from the drg. Sure it is a pet like other jobs but we have zero control on when our wyverns attacks a target, It only engages when we engage. Making it essentially an extension of a drg.