Skirmish Bayld Farmers

[Garota]

Really? Because of these kids, prices on tier 1 Visages, Torsos and Legs have skyrocketed. Making a profit out of a full run is turning out to be like an unreasonable source of gil now. The main reasons they're doing this is to spam out some Bayld for Wildskeeper Reives and because there is nothing holding people back from getting to the Noetic Ascension and immediately exiting. Oh well!

[Fynlar]

k

Not sure what the point of this thread was

[Demon6324236]

People are driving the price of Skirmish items up because they buy all of them, make the KI to enter, go with a group of people, run to the Noetic Ascension which gives 5~7k Bayld, and then leaving so they can do it again. Basically its jumping the price so they can get fast Bayld while at the same time making it much harder for people actually trying to do Skirmish to actually get in because the price is higher. In a way, I see how its an abuse, they do the event for no reason other than Bayld then exit and in the end are taking away the ability for other players to do the event for themselves by consuming the market on these items.

[detlef]

That doesn't sound like abuse at all.

[Demon6324236]

The only reason I can see it as any form of abuse is because the people doing it are only doing the event for a fast way to get bayld without having to do it the way SE meant for it to be done. By doing this people are also taking away from the people who are truly interested in doing Skirmish as a means to getting a strong weapon. Besides that its not really, but it is circumventing the way SE meant for us to get Bayld while at the same time hurting players who want to do Skirmish for its rewards rather than for only Bayld.

[Fynlar]

Lower tier skirmish pieces are such common drops now from reives that I can't see this being that severe of a problem. It certainly isn't on my server, at least.

[Garota]

People are driving the price of Skirmish items up because they buy all of them, make the KI to enter, go with a group of people, run to the Noetic Ascension which gives 5~7k Bayld, and then leaving so they can do it again. Basically its jumping the price so they can get fast Bayld while at the same time making it much harder for people actually trying to do Skirmish to actually get in because the price is higher. In a way, I see how its an abuse, they do the event for no reason other than Bayld then exit and in the end are taking away the ability for other players to do the event for themselves by consuming the market on these items.

Demon understands my point. All 3 Skirmish items together used to cost just under 80k, but now that price has more than tripled to about 250k, currently on my server. Drop such as crafting items, Geomancer scrolls, and now Ghastly Stones +2 sell for a pretty penny, however, since the market for pop items has gone up, the profit from selling these items isn't as rewarding as it used to be. And yes, I doubt SE ever meant for Skirmish to be a quick in-and-out bayld farm.

[Fynlar]

I doubt SE ever meant for Skirmish to be a quick in-and-out bayld farm

They also didn't mean for NIN to be a tank; what's your point?

[Kristal]

Can I complain about the price of HMPs and Umbral Marrows then? If everyone would stop buying them and drive up the price, I could get them for a nickel and a dime! This should totally be addressed!

[Garota]

Can I complain about the price of HMPs and Umbral Marrows then? If everyone would stop buying them and drive up the price, I could get them for a nickel and a dime! This should totally be addressed!

Not just no but hell no. Especially if you're not going to include my precious Alexandrite gems in that list.

[Demon6324236]

Can I complain about the price of HMPs and Umbral Marrows then? If everyone would stop buying them and drive up the price, I could get them for a nickel and a dime! This should totally be addressed!There is a difference between what you are saying, and what is being done. There is no accurate comparison between these two subjects. People are buying the things to do Skirmish, without doing Skirmish, instead, they simply go inside of Skirmish, run around to find the Bayld giving rift, and then exit. This avoids doing the real event for its purpose and instead is abusing the fact it gives a large amount of Bayld. It would be like if popping a VWNM is all you had to do in order to get the XP & Cruor rewards, but drops were only gotten when killing the NM. People could go out and pop Ig-Alima, get tons of cruor, but then run away, soon as he depops, go back, pop again, tada, super Cruor gain. The difference with that even is that Voidstones are replenished constantly even if someone drains the AH of them, Skirmish pieces are not, and Skirmish pieces are harder to get while also being more rare.

[Kristal]

There is a difference between what you are saying, and what is being done. There is no accurate comparison between these two subjects. People are buying the things to do Skirmish, without doing Skirmish, instead, they simply go inside of Skirmish, run around to find the Bayld giving rift, and then exit. This avoids doing the real event for its purpose and instead is abusing the fact it gives a large amount of Bayld.

Oh, you mean like doing delve for the plasm it gives from trash mobs, rather then defeat bosses for loot?
This is THEIR pop, they payed for it. They go for the bayld then exit. You go for the bayld AND loot, then exit.
It's not like there is a shortage of pops, and it's only going to last until people get tired of doing WKRs. In the mean time, you pay a few gil more per pop, big deal.

[Zumi]

Once you buy the entry items you can do whatever you want with them. If you want to only get the bayld and leave for fast runs thats up to you.

[Fynlar]

Oh, you mean like doing delve for the plasm it gives from trash mobs, rather then defeat bosses for loot?
This is THEIR pop, they payed for it. They go for the bayld then exit. You go for the bayld AND loot, then exit.

While the logic is comparable, the scenarios aren't really.

It's a much simpler affair to farm a delve entry item than it is to farm a skirmish pop. Just about any mob in the chosen zone can drop yggrete rocks, and a delve alliance should be capable of farming these quickly. A skirmish group can't easily accomplish the same thing. Reives are the easiest way to generate skirmish items now, but even if you go and do reives you will not always get the right pieces that you need in short order, meaning whether or not you go that day is almost always determined by the AH supply.

Most people doing delve are not capable of beating the MBs, they're farming plasm so that they can eventually get gear good enough to fight the bosses with. Skirmish is a joke nowadays and the people who are just skipping it just to hit the bayld bonus and leave are likely more than capable of "completing" the event if they wanted to, they just don't care because they're not getting delve-MB-tier rewards out of doing so.

[Fulgore]

boohoo /cry me a river!

So because you wanna make sum small change on skirmish , I should play the game YOU want me play it? While I pay 30 Euro a month and pay for my skirmish sets? k

[Trumpy]

It is unfortunate yes, but I wouldnt call it abuse as they are paying a ton of gil for the pop items. its kind of like power leveling thru a craft where you pay crazy gil to skill ur craft just to get it done quickly.

If they were however somehow gettin pops cheaply or free i can see that as abuse, or if them doin these runs somehow withheld the area from other legit people (AKA they were hoggin the zone).

[FrankReynolds]

So you say "Go farm bayld the way that SE intended! By doing reives"

The other guy says "Go farm pop sets the way SE intended! By doing reives"

Sounds like no one is wrong / right to me here.

[Alistaire]

What?!? The demand for an item depletes the supply and forces inflation?!? Crazy talk.

[Glamdring]

seriously, this is about as valid of a complaint as that guy who said we were cheating by skilling up in Beseiged. SE put it there, they may not have realized people would be willing to burn 250k gil to get 7ishK bayld, but they made the mechanism. Solution, start farming skirmish pops and selling them for 250k, use that to fund your delve runs, you still stay ahead.

[Pebe]

I recommend those trying to do skirmish for gear to farm their pops from reives. Skirmish pops drop really really really often from reives. Not only do you get skirmish pops from reives, but you also get bayld and now capes. Reives are a very nice entry event now into SoA, and doing them with your coalitions will get you a nice foothold in SoA as you build skirmish pops. Then use the bayld you get from the reives to buy bayld gear and do wildkeepers and use that gear to get skirmish clears. Then you should be all set to move onto delve.

[Solonuke]

A few suggestions for Skirmish:

- Add bayld at the end of the run rather than using one of the Noetic Ascensions because everyone is using up one for it.
- Add the map at the start of the Skirmish without using Noetic Ascensions on it and show the entire map rather than part of it. The maps are static and the monster spawns are static so using wiki on the map are much more useful than getting the ingame map.
- Make the entry items much, much more common.

[dasva]

I don't really see the problem. Some people farm it for one thing some for another some for yet another. Given how often you can get the same drop in wkr it's nice to have a way get balyd fast rather than spend several hours farming then a few more fighting just to get stupid grip for the 3rd time in a row

[FrankReynolds]

I'm pretty sure this thread did more harm than good. I'm sure that there were a lot of people who hadn't thought of this before they read it.

[Fynlar]

I'm pretty sure this thread did more harm than good. I'm sure that there were a lot of people who hadn't thought of this before they read it.

Iiiiiiiirony!

[Vold]

SE put it there, they may not have realized people would be willing to burn 250k gil to get 7ishK bayld, but they made the mechanism.

I remember when people tried to play this card when they got banned for salvage exploits. Threads such as this (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=123290883716333337&h=50) popped up left and right by butthurt cheaters, filled with inaccuracies of the facts and spewing just about everything they could to get the bans overturned. They were most fond of the excuse "it's not my fault SE designed the content the way they did" Now you can sit there and say the same, so I guess the question is, do you feel lucky? Do ya? Exploits are exploits and proclaiming you were ignorant or it's not your fault SE made you do it is not going to save you if they ever decide to mass ban players again over an exploit. Does this challenge the exploits for dup salvage drops? Hell nah, but it doesn't have to if SE feels inclined to decide so.

Point is, "it's SE's fault for their programming error" is not going to be a get out of jail free card. Adult human beings are damn well able to decide for themselves if something is wrong to do, and Skirmish is very clearly not designed as a 30 second 5k bayld farming event. It is however proof of just how much it sucks to farm bayld on reives. Too little people and it sucks. Too many people and it sucks. In certain zones you'll never win due to cape drops. If the drops were spread out or new drops showed up, people would spread out, and they would earn bayld naturally while farming items thereby skipping any desire to use questionable tactics.



Just throwing all of that out there. You make your own beds. Don't make the same mistake salvage people did and assume SE would never bother banning you because it hurts them in the pockets. They'll just assume you take the game so seriously to cheat that you'll probably just create a new account and keep giving them money :x and plenty of banned salvage players did just that, if they didn't get their hands on an existing account from someone else or out right bought it off someone.


Again, this is no where in the same league as salvage dups even though it's treading along the thin line, and it doesn't have to be the same in the eyes of SE. So go ahead and get your faster bayld so you can finish farming gear so you can AFK sooner in Jeuno or Adoulin, but don't come back here claiming injustice if they ever ban you over it because they felt like doing it, to whomever that may concern.

[Fynlar]

Nobody's going to get banned for doing this, come on now.

Anyone who tried saying "it's SE's fault" regarding salvage dupes was very obviously trying to shrug off the fact that they *cheated* the game to get their extra drops. It's like successfully robbing a bank and then saying "well, I wouldn't have been able to get away with it if you guys only had better security"

If anything, they might adjust the system so that no noetic ascensions appear at first until you complete at least 20% of the skirmish objective or something like that. But they can't pin this one on the playerbase like they could with salvage dupes, and it's not like people are getting bayld for absolutely free.

[Demon6324236]

Yeah, Salvage was very different than this. In this case, its a reward from the event which was in every way intended, we are obtaining that reward, but are not doing any other part of the event, how is this an exploit?

I think it is an abuse, but not an exploit, abuse of the event in the way that on Phoenix right now the prices are very high by compare to before. But not an exploit as though it were an unintended glitch we are just using to cheat the game and get more Bayld.

[Kristal]

I think it is an abuse, but not an exploit, abuse of the event in the way that on Phoenix right now the prices are very high by compare to before. But not an exploit as though it were an unintended glitch we are just using to cheat the game and get more Bayld.

I wouldn't rank it as abuse. Blinker gilfountain was abuse, and this doesn't even come close to that. It's a momentary craze due to the wildskeeper reives being so popular, but once those die down, so does the market for skirmish parts.

Honestly, I don't even see why you want to do skirmish for anything but bayld. A lot of work and RNG bullcrap for a bunch of inferior weapons.

[dasva]

Yeah this doesn't compare to salvage... that was clearly making the game do something it wasn't intended to do. Opening something for balyd the way it was supposed to do and then just quitting cause you got what you want is more on par with tanking with nin even though that wasn't what SE intended but made it capable of doing

[FrankReynolds]

I wouldn't rank it as abuse. Blinker gilfountain was abuse, and this doesn't even come close to that. It's a momentary craze due to the wildskeeper reives being so popular, but once those die down, so does the market for skirmish parts.

Honestly, I don't even see why you want to do skirmish for anything but bayld. A lot of work and RNG bullcrap for a bunch of inferior weapons.

IKR? They should just make an NPC that gives you bayld or Plasm in exchange for those things :P

[Demon6324236]

The thing with Skirmish weapons is first off, we may not want them, I personally have all Delve KIs besides Bosses, but it does not mean that other players do not want the Skirmish weapons. With how things are getting, or have already gotten I should say, if you do not have a Delve weapon, you do not have a chance at getting into a Delve party really. This is horrible, but it is fact, so people going to go do Skirmish in hopes of being allowed to do the content for their better weapon, not such an insane idea. Secondly, they are supposed to be updating Skirmish with gear, and +1 versions of the weapons. Now, these +1 weapons could be as strong as boss weapons, or just 1 more DMG & such like you see with most +1s, its hard to say, but seeing as I believe they rank this content as a higher level, much like Wildskeepers 1 & 2 with the second giving much more valuable rewards, we could see these becoming quite powerful. Also, the gear has a good chance at being good enough to be worth getting, depending on the augment system & if it requires augments to be good in the first place of course.

All in all, Skirmish does not seem like in the near future it will be worthless, and it also does not seem completely worthless right now either. The reason I even popped in here in the first place is because I knew it would jump up the prices, and it did, and for that exact reason, I knew it would also hurt the players who need Skirmish the most, the ones just getting into Adoulin, who still have no Delve stuff, and probably lack the funds to shell out 300~400k for every run just to get a small shot at a +2 stone or save up enough fragments for a +2 stone.

[Fynlar]

Honestly, I don't even see why you want to do skirmish for anything but bayld. A lot of work and RNG bullcrap for a bunch of inferior weapons.

Well, it can drop some nifty money drops, which can more than pay for the cost of entry. GEO scrolls are one of the primary things there that show up, but there are some others. Everyone gets their own pool too, so you don't have to fight over the drops or sell/split.

IMO though, the system would have done better if they scrapped the whole idea of "obsidian fragments" and instead just made this into mweya plasm (and increased the amount given during the run to make it worth going, obviously; something like between 3-6k or so depending on the difficulty of the run + parts you use). In effect, it would make Skirmish become like a mini-Delve, for those that don't want to wrangle an alliance together. The fragments just seem very useless at present; I don't know if that's something they plan on changing later or what, but right now they feel very redundant and I'm sure they are not the reason anyone goes to do skirmish.

[Kristal]

Well, it can drop some nifty money drops, which can more than pay for the cost of entry. GEO scrolls are one of the primary things there that show up, but there are some others. Everyone gets their own pool too, so you don't have to fight over the drops or sell/split.

My main job is PUP, so skirmish doesn't reward anything of interest. No weapon (with automaton stats), no attachments... I'd do skirmish for the GEO scrolls, if I wanted to seriously put time into GEO though. (But then noone will be left to kill lair reives ;)

[Mahoro]

Prices on my server for Tier I Legs, Torso, and one of the Visages are around 10-20k each. 50-70 of each on the AH. Either the problem worked itself out as more people got their Naakual KIs, or there was never really a problem.

[Fynlar]

My main job is PUP, so skirmish doesn't reward anything of interest. No weapon (with automaton stats), no attachments... I'd do skirmish for the GEO scrolls, if I wanted to seriously put time into GEO though.

I'm not seeing why your main job matters when I was talking about drops you can sell for money.

[Kristal]

I'm not seeing why your main job matters when I was talking about drops you can sell for money.

Gasp... but money isn't the purpose of the event! Those drops should be removed! (Joke..)
Money doesn't interest me that much, neither does spending money. (Shocking, I know...) I prefer doing content for personal progress.

[dasva]

I'm not seeing why your main job matters when I was talking about drops you can sell for money.
Well heres the crux of that. The so called point of the battlefield is to get said weapons and ghastly stones. While there is nothing wrong with doing it for money drops... by the same logic there is nothing wrong with doing it for bayld. While that doesn't really argue your point it does go to the point of the thread. So maybe he was arguing there are clearly no reason to for some jobs to go for the main objective therefore the other rewards in there are there by design to keep people interested?

[Fynlar]

Money doesn't interest me that much, neither does spending money. (Shocking, I know...) I prefer doing content for personal progress.

OK, but many other people would still be interested, especially when you're spending money just to be able to do skirmish.

Also, to many, a supply a money IS their form of "progress" right now (see: airlixirs, primarily)

[Glamdring]

I remember when people tried to play this card when they got banned for salvage exploits. Threads such as this (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=123290883716333337&h=50) popped up left and right by butthurt cheaters, filled with inaccuracies of the facts and spewing just about everything they could to get the bans overturned. They were most fond of the excuse "it's not my fault SE designed the content the way they did" Now you can sit there and say the same, so I guess the question is, do you feel lucky? Do ya? Exploits are exploits and proclaiming you were ignorant or it's not your fault SE made you do it is not going to save you if they ever decide to mass ban players again over an exploit. Does this challenge the exploits for dup salvage drops? Hell nah, but it doesn't have to if SE feels inclined to decide so.

Point is, "it's SE's fault for their programming error" is not going to be a get out of jail free card. Adult human beings are damn well able to decide for themselves if something is wrong to do, and Skirmish is very clearly not designed as a 30 second 5k bayld farming event. It is however proof of just how much it sucks to farm bayld on reives. Too little people and it sucks. Too many people and it sucks. In certain zones you'll never win due to cape drops. If the drops were spread out or new drops showed up, people would spread out, and they would earn bayld naturally while farming items thereby skipping any desire to use questionable tactics.



Just throwing all of that out there. You make your own beds. Don't make the same mistake salvage people did and assume SE would never bother banning you because it hurts them in the pockets. They'll just assume you take the game so seriously to cheat that you'll probably just create a new account and keep giving them money :x and plenty of banned salvage players did just that, if they didn't get their hands on an existing account from someone else or out right bought it off someone.


Again, this is no where in the same league as salvage dups even though it's treading along the thin line, and it doesn't have to be the same in the eyes of SE. So go ahead and get your faster bayld so you can finish farming gear so you can AFK sooner in Jeuno or Adoulin, but don't come back here claiming injustice if they ever ban you over it because they felt like doing it, to whomever that may concern.

This "exploit" isn't even related to the Skirmish exploits in the slightest. For 1 thing, it's not an exploit. If anything it's like that quest we all used to purposely lose for the feet used in another quest in Selbina. The only difference is it's a force-pop instance, otherwise, people are bypassing a win for the reward they really need. The way to fix it (if a fix is even needed) is 3-fold, a. increase bayld for beating the mobs, b. tie the concordance bayld to the number of NMs defeated and award it at the end of the run, and c. like Frank said below, allow the weaps to be NPC'd-for bayld. But in no way can it even be rationally argued that this practice the OP complains of is a punishable offense.

My argument wasn't that this was a programming error, just an error in judgment-provided that SE didn't actually intend on this being an option right from the outset. You'll notice SE hasn't chimed in anywhere in this thread to say anything even hinting at wrongdoing here. Players really are apparently willing to part with significant gil to receive low amounts of bayld. Maybe this was SE's method to allow casuals to start to close the gap with elites, by letting them quickly get a weapon strong enough to at least start venturing into delve content (plasm farming), then using the purchase option instead of drops to get their 1st delve gear. It's a possibility, especially with Matsui hanging his entire theory of game development on proceeding through the gear tiers he had built into SoA-even more apparent with their continually putting off the r/m/e upgrades which have made that content almost dead.

If anyone should be banned it's the AFK people who park at the fringe of a reive while they go on a 3 week RL tour of parts unknown and come back to a pile of bayld and such. THAT is an exploit. We need Goblin fishermen again...

[dasva]

Goblin fisherman was for people using bots... staying somewhere for very minimal rewards is about as much as an exploit as afking with a bazaar hoping people buy stuff or getting to afk in an abyssea pt. Also to note they haven't chimed in on that either.

[Glamdring]

the AFK crowd at the reive fringes is too lazy to even be botting, they just stand there. Personally, I alwys pull mobs to be in AoE range of that crowd. a REAL fix would be a check-in reguirement, like campaign had. but i'd settle for the equivalent of gob fishermen again. I hate seeing AFK people getting combat rewards. and yes, I always kicked anyone that AFK'd in Aby to bring in someone who would work.

[FrankReynolds]

the AFK crowd at the reive fringes is too lazy to even be botting, they just stand there. Personally, I alwys pull mobs to be in AoE range of that crowd. a REAL fix would be a check-in reguirement, like campaign had. but i'd settle for the equivalent of gob fishermen again. I hate seeing AFK people getting combat rewards. and yes, I always kicked anyone that AFK'd in Aby to bring in someone who would work.

Fair enough. But once you get your bayld and go enter a wildskeeper reive for 75k, don't get all sad in your pants when I throw on my twilight set and mpk the entire zone for like 12 hours straight cuz I have that kind of time.

EDIT: By the way, the lame anger diplayed in this thread has motivated me to go AFK at reives whenever I am away now. Have fun screwing up your own playtime to kill me. I'll get the exp right back while I'm afk at the next one.

[detlef]

Fair enough. But once you get your bayld and go enter a wildskeeper reive for 75k, don't get all sad in your pants when I throw on my twilight set and mpk the entire zone for like 12 hours straight cuz I have that kind of time.

EDIT: By the way, the lame anger diplayed in this thread has motivated me to go AFK at reives whenever I am away now. Have fun screwing up your own playtime to kill me. I'll get the exp right back while I'm afk at the next one.You always struck me as a reasonable person and player based on your posts. I generally agree with you most of the time. However, this response has me shaking my head. I guess you're not a good person after all. You should probably not play an MMO.

[FrankReynolds]

You always struck me as a reasonable person and player based on your posts. I generally agree with you most of the time. However, this response has me shaking my head. I guess you're not a good person after all. You should probably not play an MMO.

I'm not even on his server. I'm simply trying to show him how stupid he sounds when he tries to justify MPKing people who aren't doing anything to him. I'm obviously not really going to do that because I'm not the sort of malicious tool who goes around griefing people who didn't do anything to me.


It's fair warning though. I'm sure there are a few people out there who aren't as nice as me and screwing over people just because they were standing there should have consequences.

[detlef]

I feel like afking in reives should be viewed it as a free bonus that you can get overnight or at work with no effort involved. Whether you get 1k or 5k bayld, whatever, it's free. My impression is that people view it as a minor annoyance if they wake up dead or in town, but apparently some take it very seriously and are very upset about it.

I don't really understand this, as I've made clear in my previous posts. MPK is not something that should ever be encouraged, and taking the the law into your own hands rarely ends well. As someone who has endured extremely long Wildskeeper Reive fights, I took your threat to ruin the event for 100+ people very seriously. Even if you were not serious.

I take back what I said about you being a bad person, but I still feel that complaining about free bayld is akin to complaining about the gobbie mystery box. Either way it's something for nothing.