war = overpowerful

[tanoshiiff11]

I think the WAR is overpowerful and useful right now.

My DD is persecuted cause WAR is ..

You think so ?
Let's do discussion

[Septimus]

WAR is not overpowered. While WAR has a very nice damage output, it balances out by having the defensive capabilities of a wet noodle. As a comparison, look at MNK- right now MNK is the best tank in the game because it deals out ludicrous amounts of damage, but is able to avoid taking huge amounts of damage with a strong evasion skill, counter, and guard.

Until WARs are able to DD tank things that MNKs laugh at, I don't think we can call Warrior over-powered.

[Draylo]

Out of curiosity what is your DD?

[Hohenheim]

Eh, WAR isn't any more overpowered as much as other jobs are underpowered IMO. Abyssea ruins all jobs that don't have a crit WS and semi-decent defense capabilities. Drg, Rng while having a crit WS, has no native defense capabilities, and in the case of ranger, no defense at all even when subbing nin/sam because you have to stop using ranged attacks, have a delay, then finally use the ability, all the while being beat senseless.

Poor Drk and the like doesn't even have a crit ws ftl >_>

[tanoshiiff11]

Look this and think again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vybkARXCeCU

Whats your DD reason for existence.

[Vlorsutes]

You put a well geared Monk there with Revenant Fists +2 or Verethragna and I can almost guarantee that they'll pull off a similar feat. The only reason he was keeping up with TP that quickly was because he had Retaliation up (at least, I believe he had Retaliation up), so that only would have worked if the mob was attacking him anyway. Every job that has a strong critical hit weaponskill (I say strong because there are weak early ones like Power Slash, Vorpal Scythe, etc) is going to do extremely well in Abyssea if they have Atma of the Razed Ruin.

[Orson]

That video doesn't look legitimate at all. It looks like a brew but the damage is way too low. That NM doesn't hit the player enough for that to be a 5 hit set up with retaliation procs to get back to back light like that unless he got really lucky on DA and retaliations. Count the number of hit's it doesn't really add up.

[Vlorsutes]

That video doesn't look legitimate at all. It looks like a brew but the damage is way too low. That NM doesn't hit the player enough for that to be a 5 hit set up with retaliation procs to get back to back light like that unless he got really lucky on DA and retaliations. Count the number of hit's it doesn't really add up.

I tried keeping up with the number of hits in the actual log rather than how many times he's shown swinging, but I do agree that the video does seem sketch. It's clear that he doesn't have a brew on because not only is his damage too low as you pointed out, but his HP is too low, he's taking too much damage from the hits that do land, and he's not recovering from the damage he's taking like you'd expect from the 500 hp/tic regen from a brew.

I wouldn't be surprised if it did turn out to be faked in some way.

[hiko]

regain/stp/conservTP atmas, cor sch monarch drink?
nothing really impressive

[Usukane]

There's no way a Warrior can legitimately gain TP that fast.

[Retsujo]

I don't think so. Maybe if we got actual tiers of Double Attack (or even just ONE more, that could give WARs more of an edge on DA since it's THEIR trait) I could understand, but atm there's plenty of Double Attack out there for everyone to stack, and - while I don't consider DA to be the end-all do-all for WAR - every job has their own way to be successfully super-powered and there's plenty of DA to go around. I just figured WAR would get at least DA II for 20% or something at 80 or so. Been disappointed in the job here lately.

[Tidon]

Sounds fake but who knows

[Orson]

There's no way a Warrior can legitimately gain TP that fast.

Potentially with like 5 hit build, capped 80% haste, the right meds/atma/rolls, etc. The thing is any way you look at it, as was mentioned before, many jobs can replicate that sort of thing. Video still looks off though.

[hiko]

stupid gear/atma set but
plaguebringer/persistant predator/ /sam rose WT brutal hoard rajas tactical goading , cor sam tactician perfect rolls make a 3hit
conserv TP proc can bring it to 2hit

[kingfury]

What dribble this is >.> (I knew I should've posted the 1st post early this morning), and it sucks that this crappy post is the 1st thing you see on the new WAR thread. Go complain on whatever thread your too weak Job is and leave this area for us "Well Deserved, Hard Working DDs". We WARs deserve every bit of God Mode dmg we push out in Abyssea.
Dude if you're complaining about Abyssea Dmg, you fail. SE designed the place to be a "God Mode" for all dmg types, so your concerns are moot. Do some research on Atmas, and learn how to boost your dmg better. My dual-boxed WHM tarutaru can easily clear 2k dmg with Hexa Strike in Abyssea, and that's with just Razed Ruin Alone(Not including a Brew).
The video looks doctored, and definitely is showing an example of a SUPER too weak WAR in Abyssea. He's using a Walk of Echos GA and is only clearing 2k'ish dmg??!! Complete rubbish. The Emp. GA ws easily clears 3-5k dmg in Abyssea and that's without even being a "Well geared" WAR.
Sorry if I come off a little irritated, but the last thing I wanted to see on this official WAR thread is a whinny note to SE about trying to power down a WAR /sigh. We have 9 more lvls to go and you're concerned about overpowering?? /toss

[Coldbrand]

Overpowerful isn't a word.

[ringthree]

Overpowerful isn't a word.

The thread maker's first language obviously isn't English. And overpowerful is much better than some of the words I hear native English speakers come up with... like "whatnot".

[kingfury]

I love using the word "whatnot" :)
example: "Yeah, i gotta go pay bills, get gas, and whatnot so I'll call ya later." ^^
---
Overpowerful... Some words just sound like they should be real words... but then again we're using it in reference to a fantasy world lol. There's a dozen words/terms that folks in FFXI use that would make absolutely no sense to anyone in the real world lol. "Dual-boxing", "Power Leveling", "/Facepalm" etc. but we all understand what people are trying to say lol

[hideka]

i think warrior SHOULD be the most powerful Weapon melee job in the game, just like monk should be the most powerful hand to hand, blm the strongest nuker, whm the strongest healer.... this logic is nothing new to the game. what SE fails at is giving each role a desirable niche in every party. look at wow for example, there is no clear " we want this class over this class" youll have disc priests who are specialized in single target heals, youll have shamans who are specialized in a balance between single target and aoe, and youll have druids who are specialized in AOE. this games only issue is the lack of a niche for each job. WAR WHM BLM MNK BRD COR THF are pretty much the only jobs with a rock solid niche.

[Cett]

It's rather simple given proper buffs/gear/atma to build a 4-hit for Ukonvasara or any gaxe with higher delay. We are unsure of the jobs in this war's pt. I am rather confident I could repeat the results of the video without much problem.

Hasso + dual march + haste pair'd with retaliation for the swings to build tp.
Matched with this equip(Rose Strap + Rajas Ring+ Goading Belt + Brutal Earring + Hoard Ring + AF3+2 Body) combined with Atma of the Scorpion Queen and a 2,9,10, or 11 Samurai's Roll creates a 4 hit build.

This should solve your mystery of how he's weapon skilling so frequently... as for the remaining questions I lost interest.

[Matsuya]

/w regain cor roll and sch spell war can easily do that ... w/ a 2-3/ attk gaxe they can do more but less flashy ws dmg. Its not the only job that can do this so well just the best 2handed job for it.

[Byrth]

A few things I think I should point out:
1) There's almost no point where an OA2-4 weapon is a good idea for Warrior due to their high Double Attack rate.
2) Warrior is a strong DD, but it comes with a big tradeoff. We may be marginally stronger than other DDs, but all our abilities that allow us to be so strong (Berserk, Hasso, Retaliation) either increase damage taken or do nothing to lower it. We don't do damage when we're dead.

[Rambus]

He might be swinging where you cannot see it due from swinging after ws, hes blood tanking so hes prob getting retaliation hits. that damage is a bit low so his only DD atma may be RR with other atma for STP and such. even with just reading numbers I cannot read how meny times hes hitting that beween ws's.

I dont know how much STP you can get from atmas but you can push an Ukonvasara down to a 4 hit ( 3 hit +ws) Cor roll may be needed but Im not there to say if it was fake or he got x or y buff

anyways its not the job being overpowered its more of what empyreans can do in abyssea

[hiko]

you can 3hit with a cor and stupid atma choice, not good for real kill speed but fun to do troll video where you spam low dmg WSes.
the video seems impressive because he chain WSes but I'm sure with good atma/buffs a machu+2 war can kill faster.

old stuff but i was way more impressed when i first saw the apoc drk burn video (before haste cap)

[Zayon]

It could have been infused with Ragain Atmas:

+5 TP/tick > Atma of the Sea Daughter
+3 TP/tick > Atma of the Sundering Slash
+2 TP/tick > Atma of the Voracious Violet

With these set he could have got 10 TP/tick per Hit, but the first Atma gives also a 13.3% Slow (at least seems so) so probably he just used a Monarch's Drink...

[Wade]

While WAR has a very nice damage output, it balances out by having the defensive capabilities of a wet noodle.

Heh, sorry I had to quote this because it made me laugh. It's so true, without /nin, War just doesn't have that well of a defense set up :(

[Retsujo]

WAR has equipment available to better defend itself, it's just annoying and almost useless to pursue. AF body +1 is one example.

[kingfury]

WAR has equipment available to better defend itself, it's just annoying and almost useless to pursue. AF body +1 is one example.
----------
Well I have to disagree with you there friend, since I actually have a completed -50%PDT (includes a Trial -pdt GA) and an high evasion set (includes a Trial evasion GA) that I use for tanking quite effectively. I'm still working on the -50%MDT set, but right now I'm at around -30%MDT. I'm able to tank just about every NM in Abyssea (Tunga is still a pain in the ass for any tank though lol) just fine with the same support as any tank would on WAR.
--------
In response to Wade's comment, /sam is the only sub you need when it comes to tanking :) /nin cannot compare to all the wonderful perks you get from /sam in regards to tanking and DD'ing.

[Wade]

In response to Wade's comment, /sam is the only sub you need when it comes to tanking :) /nin cannot compare to all the wonderful perks you get from /sam in regards to tanking and DD'ing.

This is true, although I would rather tank SAM/NIN then :D Not sure at 90 but my Sam always outdid my War in Damage. I used to duo with WHM/BLM and SAM/NIN all the time. Third eye made a huge difference and I didn't think I WAR/NIN or even WAR/SAM would work as well.

[kingfury]

I'm not sure if you're talking about dmg in Abyssea or outside Abyssea, but if your speaking of inside Abyssea I have yet to be out damaged by a SAM.
-------
Not saying they can't put up some very nice dmg numbers, but I haven't seen one do it any where near as fast and as heavy as a WAR could/should.
SAM is a very powerful job, and I'm sure it's just that I haven't met a SAM DD master yet, but once you unlock a WARs speed and TP gain, the rest is just all raw ws dmg that is hard to beat IN/OUT of Abyssea. Not to metion that Sekkanoki forever changed WARs dmg output potential in ways a WAR could only have dreamed lol.
------
In the end, I'd say tank in whatever fashion you're comfortable with :)

[Byrth]

Here is my -DT build:
Atlas+2/Eisen/____/Whatever
Versa+1/Twilight/Merman's/Brutal
Versa+1/Heavy/Dark/Dark (11% PDT/10% MDT)
Metallon/Turul's_thing/DS+1/Askar

52% PDT (caps at 50%, but you need to go over to hit the real cap)
22% MDT (need 1% more, better Dark ring I guess).

The sacrifices we make for 50% PDT allow other more durable jobs (like Monk, Ninja, or SAM outside Abyssea) to catch up to us. If WAR/SAM isn't using Hasso and Retaliation with a full Haste set, they aren't to be the best DD in the game. So situations that require durability bring our damage back in line (and possibly way below the line) with other DDs that start out more durable.

[Laotian_king]

This post saddens me... I came to the Warrior part of the forum to see strategies and talk about how we can make Warriors better, not to see people get Emo because they are not Warriors..

[Leonlionheart]

Warrior is overpowered when you compare it to SAM, DRK, DRG. Especially when you factor in Ukko's Furry.

But rather than lowering the power of WAR, SE should focus on bringing SAM, DRK, and DRG back to glory themselves.

[Naturebeckles]

This is true, although I would rather tank SAM/NIN then :D Not sure at 90 but my Sam always outdid my War in Damage. I used to duo with WHM/BLM and SAM/NIN all the time. Third eye made a huge difference and I didn't think I WAR/NIN or even WAR/SAM would work as well.


War is the first job I took to 75. In the beginning, I was noobish enough to think that Great Sword was an okay weapon to have. Well listening to others cured me of that habit and then I fell in love with dual wielding axes. I still keep a set of axes on me just in case I get in the mood to use them again. For the longest time, I was against going war/sam. Then there came updates... and now with Sekkanoki, I LOVE LOVE LOVE my war/sam combo. Don't get to play it as much right now because my Thf pulls in Dynamis and my little bit of other free time is spent helping others and leveling smn so I can low man some other expansions to get them done before I think about going hard core in abyssea. Yeah, I know. I'm strange.

Funny thing is, when I play on my sam... I always go sam/war. I never /nin. It's pointless to me.

[Michaeluk]

Wade if your sam came close to your war dmg output you didn't know how to play/gear your war period.

[hideka]

if you all step back, and take a second to realize, that warrior sam drg and monk are all on relative par when outside of abyssea, youll realize that theres no need for QQIng, as ABYSSEA ENDED WITH HEROES. YOU HAVE AVERTED THE CRISIS, AND KILLED THE CAUSE OF THE CATACLYSM. END OF STORY. there will be more content, and it will be outside of abyssea. id personally like to see a good plot involving all of the heroes from all of the plotlines >_> expecially lion >_> she didnt get enough love after she pretty much came back from the freaking dead >_>

[Sorka]

I like WAR but I think you are high if you think it's overpowered now. And like someone else said it has the defensive capabilities of a wet noodle. I love my Retaliation and Double Attack but i've been wondering if it might not start being necessary to sub MNK again?

[Sakima]

War/Sam hit hasso and enjoy the fury, even vs monk's 90 emp mob war gets the job done faster!

[Zasleen]

----------
Well I have to disagree with you there friend, since I actually have a completed -50%PDT (includes a Trial -pdt GA) and an high evasion set (includes a Trial evasion GA) that I use for tanking quite effectively. I'm still working on the -50%MDT set, but right now I'm at around -30%MDT. I'm able to tank just about every NM in Abyssea (Tunga is still a pain in the ass for any tank though lol) just fine with the same support as any tank would on WAR.
--------
In response to Wade's comment, /sam is the only sub you need when it comes to tanking :) /nin cannot compare to all the wonderful perks you get from /sam in regards to tanking and DD'ing.

Hey King, just wondering if you're the same one on Valefor. I had to start all my stuff over again coming back to FFXI from years ago, just got back in about 9 months ago and WAR was my second job to 90, so I was wondering if I could hit you up sometime to go over some strategies on evasion, -PDT, and ability rotations if thats all right?

[Superchicken]

you gotta look at the jobs nature before you can say its overpowered

War overpowered? compared to what? other DD's? well lets look at it like this. WAR is suppose to be able to dish out the big dmg, that's why its a WAR class. People are calling war overpowered because their thf or whatever else job that dd's doesn't put out the DoT like the war class, well thats why your a thf or w/e job. Every job has their role. It's like RDM's and not having cure V and cure VI like whm's complaining about cure IV not being enough to main heal anymore. Well RDM wasn't meant to be a main healer, etc.

Yes WAR can tank as well, yes they have access to PDT and MDT and so do other jobs. Pretty much any dd job can tank in abyssea with proper atma, support, gear etc. Abyssea is sort of a god mode to have fun with. There was time before abyssea when people would moan and groan about SAM being overpowered and back in the day RNG was overpowered and blah blah.

But i go back to my original opinion, if you are calling WAR overpowered because of their damage they do in abyssea do to things like atma and Ukko's Fury, again i say what do you want from a WAR, to be dealing less dmg than X melee job? a war is a war. Every job has their role in game wars main role is dealing dmg. Should all jobs be equal in dmg they deal, of course not. Different jobs bring different roles and aspects to the game. Seeing a job class for what they really are will help you determine if its really overpowered or not. WAR may seem super strong to you in the dmg category right now because of abyssea but when the next nonabyssea content comes and people dont have atmas to use you will see new complaints like, why cant i do 4,5,6K ukkos, Victory smites, Jishnu's radiance, evisceration, etc. like i was in abyssea, QQ, cry cry, emo emo, etc.

[Sakima]

I repeat emp 90war/sam > anything for pure dmg even current outside content thanks to ability's, gears, and traits. post abyssea cant wait hope they have something fun planned. monks can have #2 headband

[Malamasala]

Why do you say WAR is bad at taking damage? I'd assume that apart from PLD and RDM, there are no jobs taking less damage per hit. (MNK should be fairly balanced since it takes more damage, but not when they counter or guard)

[Byrth]

Monk's counter rate caps at 80 or 90%, meaning they take substantially less damage from melee swings than we do. Ninja gets a billion shadows and is evasive. The other evasive jobs are evasive. etc.

As soon as WAR sacrifices their Haste build or Hasso/Retaliation, they're no longer in the running for top DD.

[Neisan_Quetz]

It's a sacrifice War can stand to make since they're already in the lead, so other tanks have a chance to catchup! Think half full Bryth.

It's crippling overspecialization in War's case in a sense... best offensive melee job technically, but less defensive abilities without drawbacks.

[Quetzacoatl]

you gotta look at the jobs nature before you can say its overpowered

War overpowered? compared to what? other DD's? well lets look at it like this. WAR is suppose to be able to dish out the big dmg, that's why its a WAR class.

According to this game and the community, bigger damage is better.


People are calling war overpowered because their thf or whatever else job that dd's doesn't put out the DoT like the war class, well thats why your a thf or w/e job. Every job has their role. It's like RDM's and not having cure V and cure VI like whm's complaining about cure IV not being enough to main heal anymore.

IMO, the mage category of jobs are probably the best balanced in the game so far. But with DDs, the variety of what you have in that category is just mixed beyond all hell to be able to balance them right and give them a good enough identity to make them useful enough to play. When one job doesn't get any action, something's clearly wrong.


Yes WAR can tank as well, yes they have access to PDT and MDT and so do other jobs. Pretty much any dd job can tank in abyssea with proper atma, support, gear etc. Abyssea is sort of a god mode to have fun with. There was time before abyssea when people would moan and groan about SAM being overpowered and back in the day RNG was overpowered and blah blah.

This was because of what endgame was available during those times...the strategies you needed for endgame required those specific jobs more than the jobs that were available.


But i go back to my original opinion, if you are calling WAR overpowered because of their damage they do in abyssea do to things like atma and Ukko's Fury, again i say what do you want from a WAR, to be dealing less dmg than X melee job? a war is a war. Every job has their role in game wars main role is dealing dmg. Should all jobs be equal in dmg they deal, of course not.

Then why have them in the first place if they're not going to be at least on par with each other in various situations? One size fits all, bigger damage is better, etc.


Different jobs bring different roles and aspects to the game.

Not when WAR, MNK and NIN are the only DDs you need in Abyssea. >_>


Seeing a job class for what they really are will help you determine if its really overpowered or not. WAR may seem super strong to you in the dmg category right now because of abyssea but when the next nonabyssea content comes and people dont have atmas to use you will see new complaints like, why cant i do 4,5,6K ukkos, Victory smites, Jishnu's radiance, evisceration, etc. like i was in abyssea, QQ, cry cry, emo emo, etc.

That's not going to stop elitists from sticking with what is believed to be the best. You're being redundant here. SE's eternal problem lies with playerbase thinking. If they want to fix what everyone complains about, they gotta think like us...which, of course, is never going to happen.

[Sadida]

not unless their /sam

[Kaeoni]

I bet he uses windower, that explains why he is so OG.

[Nvr]

Didn't you post a thread about MNK being to strong on the Japanese forums? It might be more productive to post of the forum of tha jobs you feel are too weak and submit requests on ways to improve them instead of suggesting that all the other DD jobs become less powerful.

[Radio]

Warrior is fine. Catch some of the other DD's up. (whatever that means)

[Dart]

Monk's counter rate caps at 80 or 90%, meaning they take substantially less damage from melee swings than we do. Ninja gets a billion shadows and is evasive. The other evasive jobs are evasive. etc.

As soon as WAR sacrifices their Haste build or Hasso/Retaliation, they're no longer in the running for top DD.

Honestly with whm as broken as it is now, war should not be making any sacrifices to cripple its dd potential. Maybe i'm biased but I have two fantastic whm's in my shell. If they drop below 1000mp its generally a miracle, and this is with me fulltiming hasso and sponging.

[Byrth]

If Abyssea is ending, the acceptable margin of error for WHMs will decrease (due to much less HP) but attacks will do about the same amount of damage to you.

[Dart]

can't argue with that. God having to play defensive on war makes me want to vomit lol

[StingRay104]

you gotta look at the jobs nature before you can say its overpowered

War overpowered? compared to what? other DD's? well lets look at it like this. WAR is suppose to be able to dish out the big dmg, that's why its a WAR class. People are calling war overpowered because their thf or whatever else job that dd's doesn't put out the DoT like the war class, well thats why your a thf or w/e job. Every job has their role. It's like RDM's and not having cure V and cure VI like whm's complaining about cure IV not being enough to main heal anymore. Well RDM wasn't meant to be a main healer, etc.

Yes WAR can tank as well, yes they have access to PDT and MDT and so do other jobs. Pretty much any dd job can tank in abyssea with proper atma, support, gear etc. Abyssea is sort of a god mode to have fun with. There was time before abyssea when people would moan and groan about SAM being overpowered and back in the day RNG was overpowered and blah blah.

But i go back to my original opinion, if you are calling WAR overpowered because of their damage they do in abyssea do to things like atma and Ukko's Fury, again i say what do you want from a WAR, to be dealing less dmg than X melee job? a war is a war. Every job has their role in game wars main role is dealing dmg. Should all jobs be equal in dmg they deal, of course not. Different jobs bring different roles and aspects to the game. Seeing a job class for what they really are will help you determine if its really overpowered or not. WAR may seem super strong to you in the dmg category right now because of abyssea but when the next nonabyssea content comes and people dont have atmas to use you will see new complaints like, why cant i do 4,5,6K ukkos, Victory smites, Jishnu's radiance, evisceration, etc. like i was in abyssea, QQ, cry cry, emo emo, etc.

After seeing posts like this on so many parts of this thread I have to make comments. First off you guys do realize the man responsible for Abyssea is now completely in charge of FFXI, as in I'm sure he's already thinking about more ways to make more abyssea zones as we speak. It's strange and I'm sure many of you are gonna say well it was only a 3 part mini update, yes your right, but back then we had the guy who just nerfed everything instead of fixing the problem, with the success of these sets of mini updates I'm sure that the man who created Abyssea is gonna go with what he knows works for his first role as the head of FFXI, and who can blame him. So in all honesty I expect at least 3 more mini updates with abyssea themes in them to be comin up soon.

Now as far as the War's niche. War is not meant to be the best DD in the game, nor is it meant to be the hardest hitting. Drk in fact is supposed to be the Hardest hitting, don't believe me look at our abilities, we have far more native attack up traits and souleater, but I'm not gonna complain about drk's lack of love on this forum, instead I'm gonna say that war is supposed to be a jack of all trades, master of none, which means that war should definitely get a boost to defensive capabilities but as of now its offensive capabilities are too much. No I don't want a nerf, nerf is bad, but you should at least agree that war has had far to many offensive toys given to it in these last updates and jobs like sam and especially drk have gotten hardly any or none. I think that war needs to be brought back to balance, which means we need to step up to the plate on other dd's and bring them to their respective niche.

Finally, war has always had far greater gear options available to it, being a jack of all trades this is to be expected, and by all means keep new gear options coming, but never assume that other jobs are as fortunate. I just lvled PUP to 90, from 1-75 I had nothing but mage gear to choose from, seriously, mage gear, its ridiculous, PUP has no need for mp or int and mnd. So I end up using the best eva gear a mage can buy and just work with what I got, now I'm not really complaining, because we do get Stringing Pummel which is every bit as broken if not possibly more broken as Ukko's Fury, but it would be nice if SE would work a little on fixing gear for jobs lvl 1-75 DRG also needs some adjustments, for instance let them wear Hauby. Anyways War has tons of potential and being the Jack of all trades that they are this should always be where they are, now if only we can get the other jobs where they need to be, and I hope I didn't make you all think I'm complaining, I just thought everyone should know about these things and this post was easiest format to handle it.

[Arcon]

Abyssea is not as successful as people make it out to be. Emphasis on is. It used to be, when it was released, it may have even saved FFXI to some degree, because right after it was released, the game had the right balance. HNMLS still had the advantage of having more dedicated players and getting all the goodies sooner than most other people. However, even casual players had a better chance at obtaining good stuff and fighting the hardest NMs, because pop items were easy to come by, respawn timers were lower than anything they knew before, and once people figured out weakness targetting, it was even possible to get the rarest drops.

It was something new, something that expanded people's experience, gave them new things to do, made EXPing a lot easier, people were able to level other jobs with ease, it seemed like everything was right for a while. However, that didn't last. By making more and more broken Atmas and buffs, Abyssea developed in a way that left some aspects of the game completely in the dust. The new experience became monotony, new and exciting NMs became tedious time wasters on the way to obtain armor and weapons.

By now, lots of people are jumping off again, maybe even more than Abyssea managed to reel in. I know many people who finished pretty much everything they wanted now, and it hasn't been a year since Abyssea was released. Casual players get frustrated to find people to do things with, because most people either have a static to do stuff with, or already got everything they wanted. Even I, and I consider myself a casual player (especially for the last half year), have almost all the things I wanted. Sure, it's not that easy for everyone, but it's only a matter of time. I even know whole HNMLS are tired of grinding for empyrean weapons, and they have nothing else to do anymore.

So we're looking at approximately three month completion time for each Abyssea area, and it would probably be even less, since it took people a while to figure it out. Even releasing more Abyssea expansions wouldn't help, since they would have to introduce massively new content, otherwise they would be finished just as quickly. Abyssea is just AF3/Empyrean farming ground, the actual end game content will need to be in the form of new expansions, long lasting ones. Think CoP or ToAU in scope, otherwise it will end up just like Abyssea, completely devoured of content in a few months. And I'm pretty sure SE is aware of that.

And to say something on topic, I do think WAR was supposed to be one of the hardest hitting, if not the hardest hitting DD. DRK was supposed to be a counterpart to PLD, offensive not just through brute force, but also by magic. SAM was supposed to be more of a tank than WAR ever was. If anything I'd say DRG was supposed to be the heaviest DD, followed by (or on par with) WAR. WAR has always had low defensive capabilities, the only thing they ever got to tank was Defender and part of their AF1 set. All other abilities focus on pure DD, often sacrificing defensive capabilties completely. Berserk and Aggressor make tanking efficiently impossible, Retaliation (unlike Counter, native to MNK and SAM) doesn't mitigate their own damage, instead just uses it to inflict more on the opponent (which is more than can be said for DRKs, since the damage they take from Souleater is mitigated by Blood Weapon, not to mention Dread Spikes). WAR literally has no means to stay alive for any period of time if they're on their own, subpar defense, evasion, no healing/blinking abilities, nothing to save them from dying. Just look at the names of their abilities: Berserk, Aggressor, Warcry, Blood Rage, Savagery, Warrior's Charge, Mighty Strikes. Does any of that even sound defensive? Everything about them is offensive, including their weapons, which are as brute as it gets. Nothing says hurt like a huge axe to the face.

The only thing that speaks for WAR as a defensive job is Defender and its access to a line of heavy defense gear, PLD style. Which, btw, DRK can wear too (Iron Ram, Valhalla, many miscallaneous items), the only notable exception being the Koenig set, WAR/PLD exclusive. Apart from that, they're almost all WAR/PLD/DRK, including many swords and shields. I'm not even sure where the myth that WAR made good tanks came from, maybe it was because it holds true for lower levels, however that can be said of most jobs. At 75, WAR/NIN occasionally made good tanks, but that wasn't because of their survival capabilities, but because they kept hate and with some skill could keep a somewhat stable Utsusemi cycle up, not any more than any other job though.

I've always taken the term "jack of all trades" for WAR to mean other weapons, not between offense and defense. And even while that was very true, it was not "master of none" because with a Great Axe, WAR excelled in the DD category, only beaten by great SAMs. Assuming roughly the same gear and skill, an average WAR would almost always beat an average SAM. SAM had more offensive capabilities though, stemming mostly from gear and Overwhelm, which boosted their strengths exactly where it was needed, which is why, used to its full potential, a perfect SAM would beat a perfect WAR. DRK may have been great before my time (from what people told me), but ever since I hit WAR75 two years ago, I never found a DRK that even came close to my damage (or that of an average SAM or DRG for that matter), so can't really vouch for them. From my experience, WAR has always been the second best DD, after very skilled SAMs.

I don't think having WAR in pole position for DDs is that much of a stretch, especially if you consider what I said before and look at Abyssea as a thing of the past. Inside of Abyssea WAR may indeed be overpowered, but outside of Abyssea WAR isn't that much better than other DDs, certainly not worth having to adjust. If anything, I think Empyreans themselves (for every job) are overpowered, but WAR in relation to other jobs is just fine the way it is.

[StingRay104]

Ya you haven't been playing long enough or don't know enough about stuff before your time to be makin a comment about war's true intent was. First off war was one of 6 jobs to be released originally before zilart came out, and war was intended to be a job that could handle offensive and defensive but not be the best of either, mnk was the high dd and thf was the spike dmg dealer. When they released zilart war stayed in that niche while Drk became the heavy hitter, sam became the ws/sc master, pld became the tank, Drg became the hard hittin dot job with pet assistance, mnk became the highest dot but with lots of small hits, bst was master of the solo leveling, and thf stayed the same. After the first expansion things started to lose balance constantly, tp gain became an issue with multihit ws's, soboro nerfed sam a grand total of 5 times, and bandwagon jobs were born (First being DRG and it was rmt's constant use of drg that coined the phrase loldrg and thus started the lolinsertjobhere phrase). In all this time war and even war/nin has been a decent tank, granted not the best for endgame as we know it nowadays, but still good at it, and I have had several good war tanks in my shells through the years and it is for this reason I say that claims of war not being a decent tank are ridiculous, I've seen it, you can argue that was just a case of a great war with great gear, but it still doesn't change the fact that it can be done, besides its become alot easier to get great gear, and I'm sure lots of great tank war's utilize the magian trial axes to make them awesome.

As for drk's tanking, well yes drk's can take some hits, but they suffer from worst def than warrior. True we have access to most the endgame tank gear war has, but that wasn't the point behind my statement, because after all who wants a drk tank? Answer no one. Drk isn't good at tanking, and its spell dread spikes is only meant to keep the drk alive during its short time of maintaining hate from high dmg til the tank can regain control of the enemy, also it has a long recast time and only handles up to half the drks max hp in dmg convert and can be resisted. As for sam, until seigan sam was not meant to tank, the introduction of hasso and seigan was much later than sams initial release, and it was then that sam become a somewhat reliable tank, though its all random on how well they tank, I've personally have had good times and bad times at seigan tanking. In truth War is always a viable option as tank, as is pld nin mnk and sometimes sam.

As for wars capabilities outside of abyssea this once again kinda predates you, but I'm sure you have heard of if not experienced it personally idk, but they are still quite strong outside of abyssea. 3 years ago I was at the top of my endgame searching and I found a great LS that did all endgame, I had lots of fun doing all the endgame things like Sky, Sea, Einherjar, Limbus, Dynamis, HNM, VNM, KSNM99, and sometimes Salvage, It was in Einherjar that overall dmg was a must. It was necessary for us to do as much dmg as possible in the short 30 min time frame in order to win that chamber, and so we always had some parsers goin on so that we could tell how each persons dmg was and would look to improve our performance to accomplish the task. Everytime we did a parse the wars were on top, this was at least 2 years prior to abyssea, and wars were at the top of dmg tiers say for Kclub drk's who would use souleater blood weapon to destroy something in 30 secs, which 30 secs of ultimate dmg every 2hrs isn't viable, but war was always top tier dmg despite all the claims of sam being broken, my ls leader was a sam and he had tons of super high end sam gear and he couldn't out due these wars. On another point I've done several merit pts with wars with fortitude axes, now this was just absolutely unfair, virtue stone weapons are for super fast hitting and tp gain in exchange for reduced dmg but in the long run dot will be higher, yet the wars were hitting 1.5k+ ws's constantly and very fast while my sam was doin 800+ gekko's at a slower speed, hell my drg which was piercing against birds couldn't compete, my rng could match the dmg but not the speed. All was evident before that war was overpowered but ppl kept insisting that sam was still broken despite numerous nerfs. Now as I've clearly stated I don't want nerfs, they aren't gonna help only hurt, and my purpose for this was to stand by the statement that war is in fact overpowered and other jobs need to be brought to their respective power lvl considering that war is the jack of all trades, master of none job. Of course I'm sure you wouldn't like that concept because who doesn't want to stand at the top, but its been to long and unbalanced gameplay is what is driving ppl away from FF11, I've been playin since the beginning of 2005, I've closely followed the game since its launch in japan trying to decide when was the best time to start, and I've seen lots of ppl come and go, hell most my friends list has left the game, and some of my old friends have shown up again, it happens, and the reason is balance, I'm not saying drk should be top ultimate dmg, but it should be a lil bit better than war at dmg, and war should be a lil bit better at tanking, and gear and skill choices should be the ultimate deciding factor on how well a job does not just well this job just so happens to have this and therefore its better than yours.

THIS IS NOT A CALL FOR A NERF THIS IS A CALL FOR BALANCE WITHOUT NERFING, BALANCE IS WHAT WILL BRING PPL BACK TO THIS GAME AND MAKE IT MORE FUN, HELL THE ONLY REASON PPL ARE UPSET IS THAT ABYSSEA MADE IT UNBALANCED BECAUSE SOME JOBS HAD MORE ADVANTAGES THAN OTHERS, WHICH IS WHY WE NEED TO FOCUS ON BRINGING BACK THE BALANCE, IF YOU ONLY READ ONE PART OF MY POST THEN READ THIS.

[Kuwabaraone]

THIS IS NOT A CALL FOR A NERF THIS IS A CALL FOR BALANCE WITHOUT NERFING, BALANCE IS WHAT WILL BRING PPL BACK TO THIS GAME AND MAKE IT MORE FUN, HELL THE ONLY REASON PPL ARE UPSET IS THAT ABYSSEA MADE IT UNBALANCED BECAUSE SOME JOBS HAD MORE ADVANTAGES THAN OTHERS, WHICH IS WHY WE NEED TO FOCUS ON BRINGING BACK THE BALANCE, IF YOU ONLY READ ONE PART OF MY POST THEN READ THIS.

The Balance is broken. Accept your fate. :)

KB1

PS. Even with WAR being overpowered, it will never be enough, and you KNOW IT. :)

[Leonlionheart]

tons of dirbble

oh god, I hope this stupidity doesn't continue. WAR has always been the big end DD. GA has always had the biggest damage output with the safety of SATA Steel Cyclone and good gear, it just used to be that that gear only came from incredibly hard to get HNMs like Nidhogg, so not everyone could be doing 3k Steel Cyclones.

Now everyone and their grandmothers are making Maschu's and Ukonvasara's and are busting out high numbers with minimal work.

[Kuwabaraone]

oh god, I hope this stupidity doesn't continue. WAR has always been the big end DD. GA has always had the biggest damage output with the safety of SATA Steel Cyclone and good gear, it just used to be that that gear only came from incredibly hard to get HNMs like Nidhogg, so not everyone could be doing 3k Steel Cyclones.

Now everyone and their grandmothers are making Maschu's and Ukonvasara's and are busting out high numbers with minimal work.

Doubt gear has any testiment to skill, but more on dedication to the job and craft. That aside, WAR still isn't powerful enough. When M.Strikes drops it needs to push 5k per hit on Great Axe, NOT WS, Regular ol' whacks to da face! :) WS on M.Strikes need to peek out on 100k damage on Great Axe! THAT'S RIGHT! I SAID THAT! Hate/Flame/Troll me all you want! ;)

KB1

[TheBarrister]

To the admins and devs, Warrior is right where it needs to be. Good balance of offensive abilities with multiple weapons. Not able to trigger every single Blue!!, and not able to be both an offensive and defensive powerhouse at the same time.

[Fyreus]

If this is your complaint then you may misunderstand atmas and canceling of stats or hack job videos lol.

It looks like he may have been using a combination of things mainly the store tp atmas like daughters(5tp/tic), preditor(good for getting/giving dmg), and shooting stars(major regain may be 3 or even 4) coupled with meditate(5tp/tic for 20%eachx5), drink(1 or 3 per tic) or full cor roll with +2 af(5tp/tic) moonshade regain(1stp/tic) and i will not count samurai roll with samurai in party (+50 with a sam in pt +2 with because thats insane... so what i assume is:

20 atma (20stp)
if you include food(7stp)
haraldr's muff.+white tha.+rajas+hoard+brisk+goading+belenos+(27stp)
regular af+2 without some parts(8stp)
retaliation tp from hits made/taken(assume final tp count)
/sam(15stp)
moonshade regain(1stp)
77stp without a retaliation proc
-----------------------------------------------
tp retaliation: 24+10+24 (sea daughters imo gives a larger return than the description says)
tp without: 24
total tp made per a tic with buffs: 57
total tp made per a tic with buffs every 6 secs: 15 spare tp

All this totals to 24tp per hit + 34 in buffs until 15 secs (pop prefight with sekkanoi) but after 15 secs i believe he's relying on retaliation for tp alongside tp returns (which i can't count) but estimate to be close to 30tp/tic if there isn't a cap (im sure some sams were confused about a cap when they found a new stp trait so i'll go with that). When i was leveling rng aand doing a trial with preditor atma i would get 5tp/tic and i would shoot and if a mob was on me my tp would jump from 60ish to 99 or so after a shot (may have to do a video in an hour) so preditor needs to be verified.


TL;DR: that War hits for like 50tp+ and gets hit and gains who-knows-how-much and returns hits for whatever and hurts stuff with tp returns and friends and may be double attacking in between ws and stuff.


...all that or we're loooking at a sam with spells/gear swaped .dats

*edit* will clean up later if i feel like it. please make any and all corrections and add in new gear i may have missed and be warned that war masks and other gear can be mistaken for other masks with bad quality videos and i didnt count in tp gain from daughters 13% slow

[JensenM]

Soloing War was pretty easy for me from like 1-12, then after that, it became very difficult. Didn't help that I used a scythe, which is god-awfully slow. Logic to upping scythe was to use it to level my DRK. Anyway, after sub job, subbing with WHM helped a bit (just for healing purposes), but really didn't help that much. I added some accessories to increase my MP.. but wasn't too great.
As for WAR being over powerful, no. If you play WAR correctly, you can do mediocre at best.

[Leonlionheart]

Soloing War was pretty easy for me from like 1-12, then after that, it became very difficult. Didn't help that I used a scythe, which is god-awfully slow. Logic to upping scythe was to use it to level my DRK. Anyway, after sub job, subbing with WHM helped a bit (just for healing purposes), but really didn't help that much. I added some accessories to increase my MP.. but wasn't too great.
As for WAR being over powerful, no. If you play WAR correctly, you can do mediocre at best.

I think people are talking end game.

End game, yeah they are right. WAR is significantly better than everyone else.

[Leonlionheart]

Also, I think its funny that people don't think that war "can legitimately gain tp that fast." (as seen on the first page) Tablilla is a joke, so you can go all out on it all the time with retaliation up. With Haste, Marches, and /sam, you get TP too fast for Ukko's animation to end.

And there's no need for any type of meds/ SCH or COR.

[JensenM]

I think people are talking end game.

End game, yeah they are right. WAR is significantly better than everyone else.

Yes, past 30 Warrior gets much better. With extra equipment that raises ATK and STR. I still don't quite think WAR is much better than other classes, especially the mage classes and of course I can't speak for say the last 4 newer jobs, as I never got to play as them before I stopped play in 05...

[Leonlionheart]

Yes, past 30 Warrior gets much better. With extra equipment that raises ATK and STR. I still don't quite think WAR is much better than other classes, especially the mage classes and of course I can't speak for say the last 4 newer jobs, as I never got to play as them before I stopped play in 05...

I'm talking end of the line game. Ukonvsara WAR's make fools of all the other DD, literally DESTROY their numbers, as in they simply CANNOT compete. MNK's the next runner up, but still rather far behind in high haste situations.

[Cursed]

I'm talking end of the line game. Ukonvsara WAR's make fools of all the other DD, literally DESTROY their numbers, as in they simply CANNOT compete. MNK's the next runner up, but still rather far behind in high haste situations.

Unless of course it's a Vere mnk hundred fisting after aftermath Lv.3.
I know parses don't mean much, but a fully buffed + MS Ukon war vs a fully buffed HF Vere mnk with aftermath 3 already up will see MNK win, providing the fight doesnt last more than 1 minute.

But, yeah, Widowmaker Wars give Vere MNKs a run for their money. Ukon WARs just can't be touched.

[hiko]

Unless of course it's a Vere mnk hundred fisting after aftermath Lv.3.
I know parses don't mean much, but a fully buffed + MS Ukon war vs a fully buffed HF Vere mnk with aftermath 3 already up will see MNK win, providing the fight doesnt last more than 1 minute.

But, yeah, Widowmaker Wars give Vere MNKs a run for their money. Ukon WARs just can't be touched.
wrong because fully buffed WAR (SV marched, hasso, haste, haste samba) and mnk will have the same delay reduction (80%cap)
MNK : (480+51)*.2/60= 1.77s for 2 77 base dmg hit where only one can DD (afaik martial arts DR is calculated in DR cap ignore post if i'm wrong)
WAR : 482*.2/60=1.6 s for 1 131 base dmg hit 100% crit, +CAB trait (no longer capped@50)
war win by a bigger amount than on a no high buf (where mnk have more DR)
hundred fist is a useless 2H in max buff situation

[Leonlionheart]

wrong because fully buffed WAR (SV marched, hasso, haste, haste samba) and mnk will have the same delay reduction (80%cap)
MNK : (480+51)*.2/60= 1.77s for 2 77 base dmg hit where only one can DD (afaik martial arts DR is calculated in DR cap ignore post if i'm wrong)
WAR : 482*.2/60=1.6 s for 1 131 base dmg hit 100% crit, +CAB trait (no longer capped@50)
war win by a bigger amount than on a no high buf (where mnk have more DR)
hundred fist is a useless 2H in max buff situation

This is almost correct.
1. March x2 with a +2 hand +3 harp BRD is cap magic haste with haste on. 25% gear, 45% from magic 10% from hasso is cap haste. No need for soulvoice.

2. Hundred Fists is not 80% haste, its actually 73% which is even less dps.

3. No one accounts for Retaliation. Retaliation puts WAR even higher above everyone else because lets face it: 2 Ukko's = Cap hate.

[jonrambo]

Hmm i read all this stuff about critical hit , uber tp builds etc and its all based on abyssea which is great until you take the atma bonuses out of the equation, so before you make suggestions and judgements go play the jobs in the real world and see whats best, and btw i play as galka i do play war but mostly a smn , so go die a bit its all fun .

[Leonlionheart]

Hmm i read all this stuff about critical hit , uber tp builds etc and its all based on abyssea which is great until you take the atma bonuses out of the equation, so before you make suggestions and judgements go play the jobs in the real world and see whats best, and btw i play as galka i do play war but mostly a smn , so go die a bit its all fun .

Haste is the same inside and out, the TP builds don't change. Ukko's is still the best WS outside of abyssea if you gear correctly.

[Byrth]

Hundred Fists tests were done before the Haste cap, and certainly before we realized the "Haste cap" was actually a "Delay reduction cap" that Martial Arts counts towards. Also, they were an approximation because Hundred Fists is a 2-hour ability and it's hard to test. Assuming Hundred Fists is hit by the delay reduction cap, it's not 73% Haste.

480+48 = 528 base delay
300+48 = 348 delay with 0% Haste on a 75 Monk
528*.2 = 105 delay floor
1 - 105/348 = ~70% Haste apparent.

So point is, HF probably does put you at the delay reduction floor.

[Leonlionheart]

Hundred Fists tests were done before the Haste cap, and certainly before we realized the "Haste cap" was actually a "Delay reduction cap" that Martial Arts counts towards. Also, they were an approximation because Hundred Fists is a 2-hour ability and it's hard to test. Assuming Hundred Fists is hit by the delay reduction cap, it's not 73% Haste.

480+48 = 528 base delay
300+48 = 348 delay with 0% Haste on a 75 Monk
528*.2 = 105 delay floor
1 - 105/348 = ~70% Haste apparent.

So point is, HF probably does put you at the delay reduction floor.

The more you know

Kinda does prove the point of WAR being too powerful though, not that I'm complaining- just trying to point it out.

[Mordanthos]

Someone said we will cry when we cant do ukko outside abyssea for 4-5-6k dmg, but, ive already done a 4.4k Ukko outside abyssea, so :P

[Rearden]

Just so I can get a troll in, but Mythic DRG makes any WAR look like a joke.

[Neisan_Quetz]

GL finding one with 25 across all servers though. But point agreed, even if it's to troll.

[Leonlionheart]

Just so I can get a troll in, but Mythic DRG makes any WAR look like a joke.

Never seen one, but that aside even if you did have one it leaves for a lot of human error. Or so I've been told.