Reasons Why FFXI is Declining

[Daemon]

Hello Everyone!

We know there are many reasons. However in this post, Lets see everyone list 1 Reason Why you think FFXI is Declining.

I Figure we must try to get the DEV TEAMS Attention some how?

#1. Share 1 Opinion in a short Comment.
#2. No Criticism, disagreements, or replies to other people who list their opinion.
#3. Stay on topic so we can make it easy for them to see our lists of Opinions.

Disclaimer: Nothing is fact, just opinions on everyone's point of view. Please do not reply to others comments with debates because this is not meant to be a debate from player to player. Only an insight of how each person thinks of FFXI at its current state.

You can make your comment simple or detailed like my first comment below. You can also add other opinions but please try to keep 1 opinion per reply.

Thank you.

[Daemon]

Opinion: Lack of merit points limiting us on several things especially when we all play multiple jobs on 1 account.

Reason: I wouldn't go that far to create a new character and start all over just to enjoy meriting a Job properly. And because of this, new jobs that come out, it's not helping us who wants to play the jobs seriously.

Conclusion: Seeing that this happens, loss of motivation to enjoy new jobs leads to my opinion on why FFXI is declining.

Solution: Add more merits points so we can raise up skills for the different jobs we play.

[Karah]

This isn't going to get deleted in a day, so I'll just go ham.

Opinion: Why is FFXI declining... there is a literal million reasons. Racist GMs. Weak player base. "Supposed" language barriers, that effectively cut the community in half. Lack of skill within the playerbase. Lack of interest within the playerbase. Laziness in the playerbase. Events that force you to rely upon other people... See the pattern?

Reason: Humans, as a whole, to sum them up, are like electricity, they "follow the path of least resistance". The most reward for the least work possible. It's a flaw inherent within humanity as a species, not ffxi. It can be said that there is no skill to ffxi, just alot of luck and pressing of CTRL 1 > CTRL 2 > CTRL 1 over and over. It's unfortunate that "MMO" had to be attached to FFXI. If it had the ability to play offline and online(like PSO), things might have been different.

What it comes down to in one short sentence is this; "In the way people" People not doing a damn thing but being in the way, taking to long to accomplish menial tasks. Slowing down over all progress.

Conclusion: Start over, aka FFXIV. FFXI will never go away it'll never die, it'll be on a hell of a life support system though.

Solution: Destroy all humans. Or ban baby making. Quality > Quantity.

[Hayward]

Opinion: Obstinacy among the developers is the biggest thing killing FFXI. Not owning up to mistakes made in the past, abandoning changes that revitalized the game (Abyssea) in a foolish attempt to enforce their outmoded philosophy after the genie was out of the bottle.

Examples: The developers' out-and-out fear of giving pet jobs what they need to function effectively in a short time while simultaneously giving melee jobs everything but the kitchen sink. Preventing mages from being effective at their jobs due to needlessly high MP costs. Not giving Paladins the tools needed to flourish from 1-99 and instead enabling elitism by limiting their effectiveness to 2 shields that are out of reach for a high number of players.

Conclusion: These developers must listen to the players more often and take examples from ArenaNet and, more locally, Yoshi-P. Input from players, contrary to some self-appointed pros on these forums, can be extremely valuable. They must also adapt to the times and realize that timesinks and punishing mistakes just aren't acceptable to players anymore.

[Umichi]

Opinion: The players. That is in my honesty what is killing FFXI

Solution: turn the servers off

[Anjou]

Opinion: Overly excessive things such as high nm respawns, people waiting hours on end wasting their lives for something that they want or need, only to have it taken by another player who otherwise does -not- need it. Then after mob is stolen, all of that time is wasted, they feel like their time on the game is moot, they stress,they rage, they quit.

Example: I nearly quit when Khimaira was outclaimed after literally wasting an entire day just sitting around waiting for it to pop. The moment it did a PLD flash pulled it, and that was the end of that story.

Conclusion: The long respawn times on most nm's are a reasonable factor that is preying on the ffxi community.

Solution: Cut down on the multi hour/multi DAY repop nm's, there's no reason for them to be that long in terms of an nm taking a maximum (Now that's just documented, never said it couldn't go over) a 3 day wait. That's 3 days a player is nervous about not being at camp, having to wait 2-3 days later if someone killed it. I really emphasize lowering their respawn times to maybe 5 or even 6 hours, that'd at least make it where people -can- camp them again, and not wait days and days for a shot at something with a 7% drop rate. If it gets taken, oh well try again later that day. What do you have to lose Square Enix? Seriously...

[Gellvos]

Abyssea, it breeds noobs, those areas should be 75+ only!

But honestly, this is an old game. It is also a lot harder to get a hold of and not as user friendly as many other MMOs out there.

[Byrth]

Ignoring that the OP assumes that the number of FFXI subscriptions is decreasing, here is what I think they're doing wrong:

1) They're creating a two-tier system where the "hardcore" players are miles and miles and miles beyond the "casual" players due to Delve boss weapons.
Example: Last night I did Provenance Watcher on Monk. I did twice as much damage as the second closest DDs (a 99 Ryunohige DRG and 99 Ragnarok DRK about tied). It is not uncommon for me to out-DD people when I come a DD job, but normally I'm doing 33% more damage than them. This time it was 100% more damage, and to top it off... I have no H2H merits or Shijin Spiral. I haven't even unlocked Ascetic's Fury. I did so well simply because I won a pair of Oaxiturs earlier in the day from Tojil (the only person in my linkshell to comment them because everyone else already has).
Reason it is problematic: These weapons give players incredible DPS. You have made the game substantially easier for the small subsection of the playerbase that is perfectly capable of playing FFXI on hard mode. Apart from the danger that they will get bored and quit if more difficult content is not added (which seems like a legitimate problem, given the proposed update path), they may get bored even more quickly doing old content because it's not challenging at all anymore. My linkshell has Tojil and the Dakuwaka on farm status, and we'll probably take down the bee on Tuesday night. There aren't going to be any more Delve Fracture bosses until after August, unless I'm mistaken. What are we supposed to do? Grow Moko Grass? Pick up soon-to-be outdated Salvage equipment that we obviously don't need by doing brainless 30-minute runs? We already have literally millions of Plasm. This is a real problem, and it was entirely caused by too much player advancement in too little time.

2) They have removed "gear value" stability.
Example: Back at 75, gear retained its value for long periods of time. If you got an Armada Hauberk in 2005, it was still the best TP body in 2009. Abyssea overturned this paradigm and basically outdated everything. Once we reached the 99 cap, several more upgrades came out (Thaumas and some new abjurations), but the gear hierarchy was basically stable again. Player confidence in gear investments was slowly growing again. Since Adoulin, no one wants to invest in equipment anymore.
Reason it is problematic: This decreases the drive of both casual and hardcore players to obtain minor improvements, but SE has not awoken to this reality and continues to release upgrades that are minor but require a lot of effort. For instance, the last 5 Plasm armor upgrades take something like 4,000 points (2x Airlixir +2s = 8mil or 200k Plasm). They're also pretty likely to still be outdated by equipment released in this patch or the next patch. So why blow the gil for such minor improvements?

[Umichi]

most gamestops sell copies of the latest disc released, and they can be readily purchased at alot of retailers online, including themselves, lack of availability is probable but not likely

[Sfchakan]

Ignoring that the OP assumes that the number of FFXI subscriptions is decreasing, here is what I think they're doing wrong:

1) They're creating a two-tier system where the "hardcore" players are miles and miles and miles beyond the "casual" players due to Delve boss weapons.
Example: Last night I did Provenance Watcher on Monk. I did twice as much damage as the second closest DDs (a 99 Ryunohige DRG and 99 Ragnarok DRK about tied). It is not uncommon for me to out-DD people when I come a DD job, but normally I'm doing 33% more damage than them. This time it was 100% more damage, and to top it off... I have no H2H merits or Shijin Spiral. I haven't even unlocked Ascetic's Fury. I did so well simply because I won a pair of Oaxiturs earlier in the day from Tojil (the only person in my linkshell to comment them because everyone else already has).
Reason it is problematic: These weapons give players incredible DPS. You have made the game substantially easier for the small subsection of the playerbase that is perfectly capable of playing FFXI on hard mode. Apart from the danger that they will get bored and quit if more difficult content is not added (which seems like a legitimate problem, given the proposed update path), they may get bored even more quickly doing old content because it's not challenging at all anymore. My linkshell has Tojil and the Dakuwaka on farm status, and we'll probably take down the bee on Tuesday night. There aren't going to be any more Delve Fracture bosses until after August, unless I'm mistaken. What are we supposed to do? Grow Moko Grass? Pick up soon-to-be outdated Salvage equipment that we obviously don't need by doing brainless 30-minute runs? We already have literally millions of Plasm. This is a real problem, and it was entirely caused by too much player advancement in too little time.

2) They have removed "gear value" stability.
Example: Back at 75, gear retained its value for long periods of time. If you got an Armada Hauberk in 2005, it was still the best TP body in 2009. Abyssea overturned this paradigm and basically outdated everything. Once we reached the 99 cap, several more upgrades came out (Thaumas and some new abjurations), but the gear hierarchy was basically stable again. Player confidence in gear investments was slowly growing again. Since Adoulin, no one wants to invest in equipment anymore.
Reason it is problematic: This decreases the drive of both casual and hardcore players to obtain minor improvements, but SE has not awoken to this reality and continues to release upgrades that are minor but require a lot of effort. For instance, the last 5 Plasm armor upgrades take something like 4,000 points (2x Airlixir +2s = 8mil or 200k Plasm). They're also pretty likely to still be outdated by equipment released in this patch or the next patch. So why blow the gil for such minor improvements?

You, sir, can have all of my internets. Take them all!

[Daemon]

Opinion Not enough new players are joining FFXI these days, It feels like the game is losing customers and not doing anything to bring in new people.

Reason Lack of exposure? Promotions? Game reviews of the progress FFXI makes? Lack of Game Guides?

Conclusion Even though this game is over a decade old, this is an MMORPG and not a game that players tuck away in a shoebox left under the bed. Because not many new players are joining, this is how I see FFXI Declining.

Solution If the future of FFXI is to continue for years to come, New current game guides would help. Holding another event such as the Tokyo Game Show giving or selling special items that include a special code to obtain an item like "Moogle Cap" would be nice if such events happened in the US and other counties and not just restricted to Japan. Half of the player base are in fact living in various parts of the world other than Asia.

[zataz]

i think they should add more nms. not mutiday ones but like 21-24 for like 10% of new gear(the best gear on par with seekers stuff) then 45% spawn nms and 45% lotto this would give people something to do inbetween link events and give the smaller groups a chance to get something nice out of it! the idea is cant get into a group u can go camp a nm or 2 and still get a item about the same.

[Hawklaser]

Ignoring that the OP assumes that the number of FFXI subscriptions is decreasing, here is what I think they're doing wrong:

1) They're creating a two-tier system where the "hardcore" players are miles and miles and miles beyond the "casual" players due to Delve boss weapons.
Example: Last night I did Provenance Watcher on Monk. I did twice as much damage as the second closest DDs (a 99 Ryunohige DRG and 99 Ragnarok DRK about tied). It is not uncommon for me to out-DD people when I come a DD job, but normally I'm doing 33% more damage than them. This time it was 100% more damage, and to top it off... I have no H2H merits or Shijin Spiral. I haven't even unlocked Ascetic's Fury. I did so well simply because I won a pair of Oaxiturs earlier in the day from Tojil (the only person in my linkshell to comment them because everyone else already has).
Reason it is problematic: These weapons give players incredible DPS. You have made the game substantially easier for the small subsection of the playerbase that is perfectly capable of playing FFXI on hard mode. Apart from the danger that they will get bored and quit if more difficult content is not added (which seems like a legitimate problem, given the proposed update path), they may get bored even more quickly doing old content because it's not challenging at all anymore. My linkshell has Tojil and the Dakuwaka on farm status, and we'll probably take down the bee on Tuesday night. There aren't going to be any more Delve Fracture bosses until after August, unless I'm mistaken. What are we supposed to do? Grow Moko Grass? Pick up soon-to-be outdated Salvage equipment that we obviously don't need by doing brainless 30-minute runs? We already have literally millions of Plasm. This is a real problem, and it was entirely caused by too much player advancement in too little time.

2) They have removed "gear value" stability.
Example: Back at 75, gear retained its value for long periods of time. If you got an Armada Hauberk in 2005, it was still the best TP body in 2009. Abyssea overturned this paradigm and basically outdated everything. Once we reached the 99 cap, several more upgrades came out (Thaumas and some new abjurations), but the gear hierarchy was basically stable again. Player confidence in gear investments was slowly growing again. Since Adoulin, no one wants to invest in equipment anymore.
Reason it is problematic: This decreases the drive of both casual and hardcore players to obtain minor improvements, but SE has not awoken to this reality and continues to release upgrades that are minor but require a lot of effort. For instance, the last 5 Plasm armor upgrades take something like 4,000 points (2x Airlixir +2s = 8mil or 200k Plasm). They're also pretty likely to still be outdated by equipment released in this patch or the next patch. So why blow the gil for such minor improvements?

Agree so much with this. Especially with how difficult it can be to close the gap if you are behind as well.

[Frost]

My only comment is on the speed at which content is released.

We got the new expansion, and it had a few things to do; skirmish, reives, etc, coupled with some new NMs/HNMs they gave us some new gear options. Then they added whole slew of crafted items and new crafting materials that you had to get 'the old fashioned way' that were relevant and interesting. All these things added were and upgrade, but still within scope of the original content. You had options. Gear was creeping up to the pinnacle gear, not surpassing it, but it started to blur the lines between top gear and the next best thing.

I was cool with that.

Then in less than a month... Delve made ALL content irrelevant...

And I would be ok with this. If it was spread out over a couple months, to the point where we're at currently was anchored somewhere in November with a "Christmas Surprise" right around the corner.

But in less than a month of the new expansion, all the content we worked on, or were working on, or in the queue to work on, was all irrelevant. INCLUDING all the stuff that was just released: no reason to do Reives, Skirmish, Mine, Craft, Naakuls, etc.

Abyssea was released on a relatively condensed schedule as well, but there were a few differences:

When you got geared up in Abyssea, you still could use some situational pieces from the past events. The added boon was that you no longer needed an alliance of 18 people to get them. The content was all reduced to something doable by an intimate group of close friends, and you know it could get done in about fifteen minutes to an hour. This dynamic is good. It made the less accessible content that had been done exclusively by the leading linkshells accessible to the 'common man' and a couple of their buddies, once those leading linkshells were done being on the bleeding edge and reaping the benefits from it.

Currently the new content requires large groups of folks (with the exception of crafting and gathering). However, if you don't give an incentive to do them, worse, you took the incentives to do them away. it's hard enough to entice one person to do stuff, it's infinitely harder to entice a group when there's no rewards (Though I could easily see why the devs would think that, thanks to Voidwatch). It should be noted that a simple 'repeat old content, but harder' strategy doesn't work, give or take, SE's done a decent to good job mixing it up (Yes there's exceptions).

So my request is simple:

Think of the long game.


New content: Leading linkshells jump on it, beat it, recover 'losses' by reaping the rewards from it, dare I say profit from it. (Just make it doable, no 24 hour fights etc...)

Then: Lower restrictions on that content. Give intermediate players a chance to gear up, maybe prove their chops to a leading linkshell, or make their own linkshell in time for the next wave. Leading linkshells are doing 'cleanup' at this time, filling in the gaps, getting those last few pieces, helping friends of friends.

(Small intimate groups of friends do 'catch up'. One or two heavily geared individuals helping 'the less fortunate'. Collectibles like Dynamis coins, Alexandrites, etc. work as incentives. (SE got that part right.))

THEN: New content: The leading tier players are geared and up to date on content, some intermediate players are geared and up to date on content, and a smaller contingency of casual players are geared and up to date on content. People are folded in to the top tier based on their merit, newer linkshells form from the chaff, and the cycle continues.

(With every subsequent wave of content it should only really phase out about 10%-15% of the 'old gear', and reduce another 10%-15% of the 'old gear' to being "situational". While providing a 5%-7% increase in potency to a 'top geared' player.)

This doesn't mean you can't drop a bomb once and a while. Go ahead and pepper the game with things like the new Delve weapons, Ridill, Kraken Club, Defending Ring, Relic Weapons, etc... But do so sparingly, like Ridill/Klub/Dring, or make them earned, like Relics. Make those items the bar that all other gear reaches and eventually SURPASSES. A player should grow 5%-7% per update, not double their potency like with the Delve weapons, but if they do, make that really rare.

On that note, when something is THAT HARD to get (Ex: Mythics). make them really worth it; the player is sacrificing new content to repeat content, generally helping others in the process. Those people deserve to have a real 'game changer' item. They've repeated old content for 'x' cycles of new content, they should be able to store that growth when it comes to fruition. Four cycles of 5% growth? Make sure the item adds a good 15%+ above what they would normally do.

[SpankWustler]

Opinion: People are buying tacos instead of paying for FFXI subscriptions.

Reason:12.95$ is enough money to buy roughly ten to thirteen more tacos a month. Tacos taste good because they are greasy and fattening and thus appeal to same demographic of greasy, fat people as the typical MMORPG.

Conclusion: TACOS.

Solution: Burn down every single Taco Bell. As a bonus, the flames fueled by molten nacho cheese and burning Taco Bell employees who have absorbed the signature "Taco Bell meat stench" into their hair and flesh will make the world smell delicious.

[Vizzer]

Opinion: People are buying tacos instead of paying for FFXI subscriptions.

Reason:12.95$ is enough money to buy roughly ten to thirteen more tacos a month. Tacos taste good because they are greasy and fattening and thus appeal to same demographic of greasy, fat people as the typical MMORPG.

Conclusion: TACOS.

Solution: Burn down every single Taco Bell. As a bonus, the flames fueled by molten nacho cheese and burning Taco Bell employees who have absorbed the signature "Taco Bell meat stench" into their hair and flesh will make the world smell delicious.

Even without Taco Bell, there is still Jack in the Box.
Taco Bell has Pespi though and Jack in the Box has Coke.
For me tacos: Jack in the Box > Taco Bell, but Pepsi > Coke, so I am torn.

[Daemon]

Opinion Updates like the one we just got today gave us a sense of false hope thinking urgent details we were concerned about would receive first priority attention ends in disappointment after finding out minor tweaks, and focus was given to things that did not solve the bigger problems the community has been sharing with the DEV team.

Reason That's all you Dev Team. We've shared our concerns, posted and left you information on how we are experiencing your creation. How the new direction is not working out for all of us.

Conclusion It seems our concerns are not being addressed properly. Instead of attending to what needs to be fixed such as inventory issues, we are left in an even worse state than before the new update. Adding more gear and not giving us ways to carry them. Adding new adjustments rather than fix things such as REM complaints that the good portion of the community has been concerned about leaving us no road map or no official word to gives us any hope is the reason I see FFXI declining.

Solution Dev team needs to pay attention to the bigger problems people are having and focus on working this out first before adding new monsters, items, weapons, armor, area etc. we don't need new content to keep us entertained. We need the content we already have fixed. Jobs, inventory, balance, Character adjustments such as Merit points, Zones such as NNI, Salvage, Assault made solo friendly. While its nice to see adjustments be made to Reives, elemental adjustments, these things are not as important as the other things that were listed above.

[Daemon]

Ignoring that the OP assumes that the number of FFXI subscriptions is decreasing, here is what I think they're doing wrong:

1) They're creating a two-tier system where the "hardcore" players are miles and miles and miles beyond the "casual" players due to Delve boss weapons.
Example: Last night I did Provenance Watcher on Monk. I did twice as much damage as the second closest DDs (a 99 Ryunohige DRG and 99 Ragnarok DRK about tied). It is not uncommon for me to out-DD people when I come a DD job, but normally I'm doing 33% more damage than them. This time it was 100% more damage, and to top it off... I have no H2H merits or Shijin Spiral. I haven't even unlocked Ascetic's Fury. I did so well simply because I won a pair of Oaxiturs earlier in the day from Tojil (the only person in my linkshell to comment them because everyone else already has).
Reason it is problematic: These weapons give players incredible DPS. You have made the game substantially easier for the small subsection of the playerbase that is perfectly capable of playing FFXI on hard mode. Apart from the danger that they will get bored and quit if more difficult content is not added (which seems like a legitimate problem, given the proposed update path), they may get bored even more quickly doing old content because it's not challenging at all anymore. My linkshell has Tojil and the Dakuwaka on farm status, and we'll probably take down the bee on Tuesday night. There aren't going to be any more Delve Fracture bosses until after August, unless I'm mistaken. What are we supposed to do? Grow Moko Grass? Pick up soon-to-be outdated Salvage equipment that we obviously don't need by doing brainless 30-minute runs? We already have literally millions of Plasm. This is a real problem, and it was entirely caused by too much player advancement in too little time.

2) They have removed "gear value" stability.
Example: Back at 75, gear retained its value for long periods of time. If you got an Armada Hauberk in 2005, it was still the best TP body in 2009. Abyssea overturned this paradigm and basically outdated everything. Once we reached the 99 cap, several more upgrades came out (Thaumas and some new abjurations), but the gear hierarchy was basically stable again. Player confidence in gear investments was slowly growing again. Since Adoulin, no one wants to invest in equipment anymore.
Reason it is problematic: This decreases the drive of both casual and hardcore players to obtain minor improvements, but SE has not awoken to this reality and continues to release upgrades that are minor but require a lot of effort. For instance, the last 5 Plasm armor upgrades take something like 4,000 points (2x Airlixir +2s = 8mil or 200k Plasm). They're also pretty likely to still be outdated by equipment released in this patch or the next patch. So why blow the gil for such minor improvements?

You have shown the greater purpose of why I made this Topic. Regardless, your reason still falls under my topic of why FFXI is declining and it's great to see others share their point of view so we all can see how each of us feels about the game in its current state. Thank you for this because you allowed several of us to see that there are more people thinking on the same page.

[pretre]

because the game used to be about having fun with friends, these days its about getting best gear you can not the adventure. I too am guilty of this but I doubt you will find a player from meripo days and earlier that wouldn't say its a diff game these days. I think its because the challenge has gone from the game and everything these days is endgame as in very 1 directional, GEAR GEAR GEAR, I remember I used to turn on and just chat to people sometimes, it was more like a chat forum with games. this just my opinion an I don't think this issue is fixable

[Daemon]

because the game used to be about having fun with friends, these days its about getting best gear you can not the adventure. I too am guilty of this but I doubt you will find a player from meripo days and earlier that wouldn't say its a diff game these days. I think its because the challenge has gone from the game and everything these days is endgame as in very 1 directional, GEAR GEAR GEAR, I remember I used to turn on and just chat to people sometimes, it was more like a chat forum with games. this just my opinion an I don't think this issue is fixable

I agree with you 100%

[Oddwaffle]

Going to chip in before we're all doom and gloom and dead with the current game direction.

Problem/Opinion: It appears that the developers fail to understand what their customers really desire and just go ahead and try to make the game fresh again without even consider the aftermath. I understand that the game has been stagnating ever since reaching lv95-99. Matsui knows the problem and he wants to refresh/reset the game. However, what he failed to see is that people are responsive to options and hate being forced to do something.

Reason: People hate being forced to do things. You can't tell people "18 people alliance will be the end game, do it!". That's not going to work. You need to give your customers options. The more options the better. By definitions, having options means all choices are roughly equal in terms of reward vs time and effort spend by a single player. If you have bad and good options then the only actual choice is the good option and no body will pick the bad one.

Solution: Make contents for EVERYONE. Alliance, large linkshell, small linkshell, group of friends or 1-2 buddies, the guy who only plays solo or that gal over there who only log in to chat with her friends or that power player with 10 characters running around doing everything. Obviously that's impossible as people play their game at different pace. So make a few content with similar rewards and different approaches. Also, you need to keep the similar amount of reward vs effort with these approaches.

Don't make too many 'ladders'. Don't make too many contents with "you must do this content before you can do that content". You will keep getting players being left behind and give up on the game. If you have to make them then you must ensure that everyone can climb those 'ladders'. I repeat EVERYONE. If you see a large gap between top players and the bottom ones then close it quickly by speeding up those who left behind. Don't sit around and wait cause those at the bottom will just quit and the game is lost.

[Omegablue]

Opinion: The players. That is in my honesty what is killing FFXI

Solution: turn the servers off



IKNEW IT, YOU'RE A STARCADE SOCK PUPPET AREN'T YOU! ADMIT IT!

[Eijii]

Eorzea welcomes you all.

[Stompa]

Aby expansion and the skill-up / level-up easymode options made people lazy imo. Turning up in Aby buttnaked and going afk for ages, too lazy to even open boxes, your only actual gaming achievement is turning the pages in a Dom ops book repeatedly for days on end. This kills the 'user input' aspect of being a gamer.
Turning pages in your pyjamas, is not the same as pre Aby xp parties where we were fighting imps and colibris etc. and you had to wear correct armor, not go afk, play your job right etc. Or in WOTG, campaign mobs would destroy you if you were afk and naked. This meant you had to be a gamer and not a naked leech. Attaining levels and skillups was a slow process, which trained you in playing your job, and was also important in learning party dynamics. It gave you a sense of accomplishment and self-worth, which is now entirely absent because you got lvl 99 in your underwear by clicking on a GOV npc a lot of times.
Many people including myself played FFxi originally because we wanted a more challenging game, with slow lvling and slow skill up, and structured tiered system of accomplishment. After 2010 this was nulled in various updates, to the point now you can get a lvl 99 War without ever using a weapon even once. That is where SE went wrong, they should have stayed with the original game mechanics. I think the only good thing they added since 2008 was level synch, because that allowed people to party when there wasnt a lvl appropriate tank seeking. After that, and especially in Soa, it has been downhill. I will continue to play this game as long as it is online, because I still enjoy the core content & love Vanadiel, but I miss the 04-09 era a lot.

[Daemon]

Aby expansion and the skill-up / level-up easymode options made people lazy imo. Turning up in Aby buttnaked and going afk for ages, too lazy to even open boxes, your only actual gaming achievement is turning the pages in a Dom ops book repeatedly for days on end. This kills the 'user input' aspect of being a gamer.
Turning pages in your pyjamas, is not the same as pre Aby xp parties where we were fighting imps and colibris etc. and you had to wear correct armor, not go afk, play your job right etc. Or in WOTG, campaign mobs would destroy you if you were afk and naked. This meant you had to be a gamer and not a naked leech. Attaining levels and skillups was a slow process, which trained you in playing your job, and was also important in learning party dynamics. It gave you a sense of accomplishment and self-worth, which is now entirely absent because you got lvl 99 in your underwear by clicking on a GOV npc a lot of times.
Many people including myself played FFxi originally because we wanted a more challenging game, with slow lvling and slow skill up, and structured tiered system of accomplishment. After 2010 this was nulled in various updates, to the point now you can get a lvl 99 War without ever using a weapon even once. That is where SE went wrong, they should have stayed with the original game mechanics. I think the only good thing they added since 2008 was level synch, because that allowed people to party when there wasnt a lvl appropriate tank seeking. After that, and especially in Soa, it has been downhill. I will continue to play this game as long as it is online, because I still enjoy the core content & love Vanadiel, but I miss the 04-09 era a lot.

Well now... I thought I was the only person to feel this way. +1 like to you :)

[Omegablue]

Aby expansion and the skill-up / level-up easymode options made people lazy imo. Turning up in Aby buttnaked and going afk for ages, too lazy to even open boxes, your only actual gaming achievement is turning the pages in a Dom ops book repeatedly for days on end. This kills the 'user input' aspect of being a gamer.
Turning pages in your pyjamas, is not the same as pre Aby xp parties where we were fighting imps and colibris etc. and you had to wear correct armor, not go afk, play your job right etc. Or in WOTG, campaign mobs would destroy you if you were afk and naked. This meant you had to be a gamer and not a naked leech. Attaining levels and skillups was a slow process, which trained you in playing your job, and was also important in learning party dynamics. It gave you a sense of accomplishment and self-worth, which is now entirely absent because you got lvl 99 in your underwear by clicking on a GOV npc a lot of times.
Many people including myself played FFxi originally because we wanted a more challenging game, with slow lvling and slow skill up, and structured tiered system of accomplishment. After 2010 this was nulled in various updates, to the point now you can get a lvl 99 War without ever using a weapon even once. That is where SE went wrong, they should have stayed with the original game mechanics. I think the only good thing they added since 2008 was level synch, because that allowed people to party when there wasnt a lvl appropriate tank seeking. After that, and especially in Soa, it has been downhill. I will continue to play this game as long as it is online, because I still enjoy the core content & love Vanadiel, but I miss the 04-09 era a lot.



All I'm hearing is "Grinding is a game." No. We did that for enough years. The party system sucked in the long run. I played as both a dog DD and Princess-come-play-with-us RDM and WHM during that time. Let it go. SE's problem nowadays is making appropriate content and that's really only been an issue since Legion and Seekers.

[Daemon]

All I'm hearing is "Grinding is a game." No. We did that for enough years. The party system sucked in the long run. I played as both a dog DD and Princess-come-play-with-us RDM and WHM during that time. Let it go. SE's problem nowadays is making appropriate content and that's really only been an issue since Legion and Seekers.

As I stated in the disclaimer, this is not meant to be a debate from player to player however an insight on each persons point of view. I do share the same opinion as Stompa so I'm sure even though not everyone will agree with each other, this post was meant to see how everyone feels about the current state of FFXI. And I do respect your point of view :)

Hopefully the DEV TEAM will take a closer look at our concerns with this post.

[Hawklaser]

All I'm hearing is "Grinding is a game." No. We did that for enough years. The party system sucked in the long run. I played as both a dog DD and Princess-come-play-with-us RDM and WHM during that time. Let it go. SE's problem nowadays is making appropriate content and that's really only been an issue since Legion and Seekers.

Never had a problem with the grind, but more of getting into groups so could make progress outside of farming up some gil or a NM item. Now, Level Sync was a good idea to alleviate the time looking for XP parties and so if one person leveled it didn't kill a whole party in off hours. Too bad it ended up more being used so groups could stay in one camp way longer than they should of. Anyone else remember East Ronfaure (S) level syncs for Colibri? Now with GoV burns and abyssea being the main ways to get XP, takes a lot of what was enjoyable out of the xp grind. Granted it is nice having that speed up as much as it is now, but that also takes out a lot of the fun of the journey along the way. How many remember their first trip to Jeuno, unescorted at 20? Or doing any missions before quite a few of them were made easy mode? Or any number of crazy things from trying to solo prime avatars to having Guivre sneak up on your XP party and plotting to get revenge later? Which makes me wonder, what things does a new player have to do that will leave lasting memories for them? Because those kind of things are what help get and keep a new player interested in playing.

With most if not all new content being aimed at old players, it really is no wonder that XI is loosing more players than it is gaining. Which makes me wonder how long till FFXI gets an expansion like WoW's Cataclysm to try and reinvigorate things for newer players, and give some new experiences to older players. As the new players need engaging content at all levels instead of just endgame. Which is why CoP is still my favorite expansion of FFXI, because even though some parts were very hard, it had events for most levels to participate in, compared to most of the others which have been primarily aimed at near end game leveled and geared players.

[Oddwaffle]

Here's another opinion.

Opinion/Reason: FFXI has too many empty content. Empty as in people rarely does them. MMM anyone? Garrison? These are ideas that didn't go anywhere but are kept in the game. As the game progress, more content get introduced and the old ones stick around. The more new content you give people the less people will do other content. These content are kept for the sake of 1-2 people doing them (if they still do it somehow) and resources are used to keep them around like useless fat in your body.

There are a lot of players who have never ever done any of the old content. To them these would be new and refreshing. SE is abandoning these content too quickly by introducing new things. New players would never experience how rich FFXI was if they are doing what they are doing now. Race to 99, join Delve as a Whm or Cor -> end.

I have played this game for over 10 years and I'm sure there are things I have yet to do. However, none of that really matters now with how the game is focus.

Solution: Spend a bit of resources on recycling old content. Don't spend all your resources in making new areas, new monsters, new battlefields. Concept wise, it's not that hard to put some of your inspirations and new ideas into old content and make them interesting and refreshing again. Don't just cut and paste them with higher level monsters. Instead mix and match them, modify them a bit, add a little bit here, take away that annoying thing...etc.

Stop worrying about getting new content. FFXI is old. That means it has a large amount of ideas and materials that can be built up on. I don't know much about coding but I think it's far easier to recycle, rebuilt and recreate some old things than just simply putting in new things. I know veteran artists and professional engineers often drawn their inspirations from their old work, sketches and even doodles or abandoned work.

Lure people with item rewards. Not the silly chocobo hat or such. Make something useful. Give people options.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

All I'm hearing is "Grinding is a game." No. We did that for enough years. The party system sucked in the long run. I played as both a dog DD and Princess-come-play-with-us RDM and WHM during that time. Let it go. SE's problem nowadays is making appropriate content and that's really only been an issue since Legion and Seekers.I don't know. I've been grinding since diablo. It seems to work as a main game mechanic.

[Daemon]

I don't know. I've been grinding since diablo. It seems to work as a main game mechanic.

Yeah but that's the problem. To many of us Final Fantasy players.

Back in the day during Nintendo Era. Many games were simple, easy to beat. Not really much depth and storyline. To many of us this way of gaming was boring. I mean Mario brothers?

RPG games filled the role other games didn't. Storyline, depth, a system of working on your character by leveling, purchasing gear so you could advance to the next area of the game. Not skip it.

Exploring different areas and finding out which places were death because your level wasn't high enough. Remember those boats , airships? Villains like Kafka in FF6? The evil mysterious Witch in 8?

We fell in love with RPG games because they took longer to beat. RPG games like Final Fantasy really got you into the story like a great book.

Look even at FF7. A whole world to explore. Rares to find. Summons to collect. But the content wasn't irrelevant because you had to search and find things in various places. And no matter what, you still had to pause and work on yourself.

Diablo is not the same. That type of game is more instant. A quick rush because many items drop and you just take whatever is the best one. This game is mostly grinding, grinding. Storyline was just in the way. You didn't have to spend a lot of time to get past it. It's meant for people who don't want to waste a lot of time but login and do stuff right away. Good for people who don't have patience for a real RPG.

It's meant to pass each area and never look back but keep moving forward. Which was not how we knew Final Fantasy to be.

Final fantasy games, storyline is what makes up everything about it. You are more involved with the characters and the people in towns. It was there to lead you into part by part. And leveling wasn't made easy, it was made to stop you at every part of the game so you could explore each area and take your time working on yourself in order to advance.

This is what FFXI has failed now. By speed racing to 99 asap so you could participate with others who already at the end and grind grind grind. Content has been made irrelevant. Abandoned with no reason to go back. People cannot enjoy the game because at 99 we are at the end of it.

Like skipping high school and college, working and coming at the point of retirement. What more is there to do? You are already at the end of the game.

I remember when I first played. Meeting people all over each map. Everyone at different levels. Everyone talking about different gear, skillchain and how their new gear made a difference. Your accomplishment in level and gear was part of everyday socialism. Leveling together even though took so much time.. What did you do during that time with others made it count. Getting to know each other was much more personal.

Because you were high level you could go to areas where low levels needed help and they were grateful that you did. While giving you the feeling of being like an older brother or mentor, teaching others how to get through the stuff you already accomplished.

But now at 99. Gear doesn't matter because its all about reaching capped sets and grinding.

Storyline? Irrelevant because we all don't care anymore. More likely, it's just in the way and we want to speed right past it.

This game is going in the direction of Diablo but fails to do it because we are caught in the middle of trying to be RPG, yet try to be instant like Diablo. And this is where I see confusion lies between old players and new generation players.

FFXI was good at the start because we all were new, exploring each town, meeting people at different levels. But here's where I see FFXI Dev team made wrong.

Making the player base depend on each other so hardcore that we could not accomplish things without others. Missions, Quest, etc.

What SE fails at, forcing everyone this way, people started having problems because not everyone is a people person. Or can make friends to help do stuff together.

If SE had given us more ability to solo level and earn our gears without depending on others, then add content for teaming up would be better.

How many people cannot join events because they didn't have the gear for it? Yet the fault here is that we depend on others too much that its hard to even collect our gears and be ready to participate.

18 man alliances ruined the game because now we are getting to the point where it's hard to find 18 people to do things.

I think the difference would have been much greater in a positive direction if SE wasn't afraid to allow us power enough to solo things like our own gear and be independent individuals.

An entire server full of people. Would we ever ignore and not team up?

http://m.ign.com/articles/2009/06/18/ign-presents-the-history-of-final-fantasy

[Tsukino_Kaji]

You say that, but the second time I played FFIV, I leveled Ridia to 99 right after I got her. Before I even entered that town right there.
The key is killing Cecil off after she's high enough to solo.
Grind is grind, it's in everything that has XP or random drops.

[Daemon]

You say that, but the second time I played FFIV, I leveled Ridia to 99 right after I got her. Before I even entered that town right there.
The key is killing Cecil off after she's high enough to solo.
Grind is grind, it's in everything that has XP or random drops.

Well you are talking about 14. Which from what I hear is made to be the new generation style RPG.

[Sfchakan]

Well you are talking about 14. Which from what I hear is made to be the new generation style RPG.

He's talking about Final Fantasy IV, guy, not XIV. You should know where Rydia is from!!!

[Tsukino_Kaji]

4, no X.

Or did we both missread something?

[Daemon]

Oh my bad lol. Mis read it while proof reading. Btw I'm writing all of this on a cellphone wah wah...

[Daemon]

“After switching over to the Famicom, there was a time when I wasn't happy with anything I was creating. I thought of retiring from the game industry and I created Final Fantasy as my final project. That's why the title includes the word 'final' but for me, the title 'Final Fantasy' reflects my emotional state at the time and the feeling that time had stopped. They say that technologically, it's good to keep going, and each time, we give it our all and expend our skills and energy until we can go no further; this is what I consider to be the "final fantasy".”
—Hironobu Sakaguchi

http://m.ign.com/articles/2009/06/18/ign-presents-the-history-of-final-fantasy

[Daemon]

4, no X.

Or did we both missread something?

I misread and thought Ridia was the name of a server in 14.

Rydia however yes I remember in IV.

I don't know much about 14 but I had a double disappointment over it. I bought collectors edition... Got mugged on my home and went back to buy another one. Spent $200. Then found the game too disappointing. But I hear great reviews about 14 now and that they did an amazing job.

[Oceanz]

#1. Opinion: Enix isn't Soft enough.
#2. Solution: Time travel

[Daemon]

Reposted my Guide under a new title much better than the last one.
Solution: read it here :) http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/35308-Revelations-Strategy-Guide-FFXI

[Mittenz]

I would say right now FFXI's biggest issue is that its caught between 2 systems. THe developers have tried to take a fast growth system (from new MMO's) and apply it to FFXI but without giving the reluctance to give up the slow progression style of the game. This does not work. You either have fast growth easy outdated equipment and instant gratification rewards or slow growth long term rewards.
Right now as it stands it takes 3 airlixer +2's a few plasm accessories and a delve boss weapon to be considered current. Lets take MNK as an example. To max it out you need 4 pieces of Plasm Armor maxed oatixer earrings neck tojil waist to be considered good. Thats about 1.75M plasm, at which you obtain (no offence to pugs but...) about 3.5k average per run and you get about 1 run done an hour (again this is basing it to the average person not groups that go in with a full LS geared to do an NM run + tojil). Thats 500 runs or 500hrs of plasm farming lets say the updates are 6 weeks apart before they outdate most of your gear that means to even complete the previous "good gear) you need to farm plasm 12hrs a day 7 days a week to get to the current gear cap the day before it becomes irrelevant.
Now with the new updates introduction, a chunk of your top gear has already been replaced before 99% of the server even obtained it (somehow I remember this happening before oh yeah skirmish weapons lol good for 3 weeks then useless) requires you to spend a week farming bayld to fight a monster 1 time in hopes you get your gear and if not you may as well give up because if it hasnt dropped after fighting each mob 2x chances are its already outdated before you will ever see it.
There is little reason to care about or get excited over new content because you already know by the time you can get the gear its already worthless so there is no reason to grind for it, and without a reason to grind for gear there is really no reason to play an MMO.

For me personally they have taken everything I enjoyed about this game and killed it, They took my exp parties away that I would make good friends in and imo helped build a stable community that is the basis for why people play MMO's, they made 75% of all jobs useless (including the 4 jobs I enjoy playing), they took away any reason behind long term goals (my 2 mythics and 5 relics are worthless have the gil to do more but why bother) and with them alienating the not so hard core players a majority of my friends have quit which is leading me to log in less and less and eventually quit myself

TL;DR right now FF uses long term progression for fast outdated gear so no point in trying because its useless before you get it which makes MMO's pointless.

[Psxpert2011]

TEXT-WALLS, aint got time for dat playas!

Problem: Players aren't objective enough. No more initiative for high levels to PL in the dunes like the olden days!

Solution: A:Take away field of valor.
B: Restrict players under 75 to enter Abysea!
C: Bring back Tanaka-san as lead director!
D: Possible end-game content that could start from level 20~99(like nyzul?A tower of leveled floors with bosses from the expansions!)

[svengalis]

The game is just old. Do you guys honestly expect people to play this game for the rest of their lives?

[FrankReynolds]

The game is just old. Do you guys honestly expect people to play this game for the rest of their lives?

Games are not made out of raw eggs and milk. They don't spoil.

[Xantavia]

To me, the problem seems to be the game is in a permanent holding pattern right now. The release of Delve weapons came too early, outclassing new items. So why invest in anything now when it might be outdone in the next update. I also feel like buying the expansion was a waste of money at this point. I don't aspire to be an endgame player so it seems like there is nothing for me to do. And the things I would still like to do (finish WotG Bastok line, climb regular Nyzul, and do all assaults) are rough getting people for. It seems tags are kept for NNI, and people just want the moonshade earring so aren't interested in doing a different nation.

I'm at a loss at what to do. I got most of the jobs to 99 I want to level (except for pup, and would like to start unlocking stringing pummel when I hit 75, but floor 10 nyzul so yeah), and only Adoulin and Bastok WotG storyline left to complete. With the playerbase seeming so split in half, there is no longer a happy medium and the world just feels cold.

[Lotto]

When they released that forum it was to (finally) be able to listen to the playerbase and what's the result now? They're just ignoring everything. They're obviously trying to push everyone to move to XIV and that's just sad.

I just don't find the game fun anymore and that when a game starts to decline. In 2-3 updates they managed to destroy every events except delve, every old piece of gear and weapons are now mostly useless. I don't mind that they're adding new gear, that's how MMOs work but right now it's not even worth trying to get those new pieces because the next update will just crush them down and make them useless 2 months later.

[Damane]

god people, how about less whining and putting more effort into the game for once!

[FrankReynolds]

god people, how about less whining and putting more effort into the game for once!

I think your comment should be directed at the developer, not the players.


Aby expansion and the skill-up / level-up easymode options made people lazy imo. Turning up in Aby buttnaked and going afk for ages, too lazy to even open boxes, your only actual gaming achievement is turning the pages in a Dom ops book repeatedly for days on end. This kills the 'user input' aspect of being a gamer.
Turning pages in your pyjamas, is not the same as pre Aby xp parties where we were fighting imps and colibris etc. and you had to wear correct armor, not go afk, play your job right etc. Or in WOTG, campaign mobs would destroy you if you were afk and naked. This meant you had to be a gamer and not a naked leech. Attaining levels and skillups was a slow process, which trained you in playing your job, and was also important in learning party dynamics. It gave you a sense of accomplishment and self-worth, which is now entirely absent because you got lvl 99 in your underwear by clicking on a GOV npc a lot of times.
Many people including myself played FFxi originally because we wanted a more challenging game, with slow lvling and slow skill up, and structured tiered system of accomplishment. After 2010 this was nulled in various updates, to the point now you can get a lvl 99 War without ever using a weapon even once. That is where SE went wrong, they should have stayed with the original game mechanics. I think the only good thing they added since 2008 was level synch, because that allowed people to party when there wasnt a lvl appropriate tank seeking. After that, and especially in Soa, it has been downhill. I will continue to play this game as long as it is online, because I still enjoy the core content & love Vanadiel, but I miss the 04-09 era a lot.

I agree. I miss the old days when I would spend 7 hours trying to gather enough people to form a group and then spend the next 20 hours level synched to a 37 killing colibris in past west ronfaure until I hit 75.

I also really miss soloing BLM all the way to 75 because no one wanted BLMs in a group. That was way better than leveling BLM -99 in abyssea and then soloing all my skill ups. I Learned way more soloing goblin pets in one nuke than I ever did soloing monsters at 99. Knowing how to solo a level 40 pet is way more important than anything else on BLM.

My favorite thing was spending 3 hours begging for some bard to come join our merit party so that we could rape colibris for 15 minutes before the JP red mage randomly said "I'm Sleepy, See you again!" and promptly warped out leaving the whole party to wipe.

Or standing around with my flag up on thief for days on end. Or starting my own party on thief and having everyone say they don't want to party unless the party has 3 polearm sams and 2 bards.

Or soloing on paladin because wtf do we need a tank in an exp party for?

Best part was running for a half an hour to get to a camp and then the mage d/cs and then the party has to disband because no new mages can be found.

I also miss searching for people, but there's no one at your level range.

Or fighting Crabs and then more crabs and then more crabs and then when you finally level into a new camp... more crabs... I learned so much from that. Now whenever I go to NNI, Legion, Dynamis, Einherjar, Sea, Sky, VW, Skirmish, Delve... I know exactly how to handle the endless onslaught of crabs, unlike these abyssea noobs who leveled and skilled up by just killing the same thing over and over forever.

Tanking on dancer all the way to 75 taught me so much about what I would be expected to do in an endgame party. If I ever get in an endgame event on dancer, I'll know exactly what to do. I just can't wait to show off my veteran skills.

My biggest regret is leeching my red mage to 99 on my mule. I'm sure I could have learned so many things that I missed during the first 3 times that I leveled red mage and all the events I did on it.

/s

[Rojiel]

There are some things I like about the faster leveling. Back when it was slow and took months to hit 75, you could only focus on a small number of jobs if you wanted to be really good at them. Now I'm able to try out new jobs I wouldn't have otherwise and become proficient with them in a relatively short time. However, I did my time in the gulags of old FFXI so even if I Fell Cleave a job 30-99, I still know at least the basics of playing it. New players skyrocket to 99 and don't know how to play.
Back when 75 was cap, I had a string of bad luck with Corsair's LB5 and was unable to complete it after several attempts. Because of this, I wasn't welcome in most groups doing content that I wanted. Since I was in school at this time, I wasn't able to put as much time into it as I am now and never made it past 70 before Abyssea. After, I was able to get White Mage to 70 and take the easy road to 75. In addition, I was able to solo a lot of the missions I couldn't before which is one of the main things I wanted to do because I love the storyline. Moving on to the bad side though:
A trend I've noticed on my server, Leviathan, since even before SoA came out, most events were dead outside of dedicated linkshells with high application requirements. Citing Voidwatch as an example, it seemed like people had either finished it and moved on, or hadn't yet started and were intimidated by it. I'm the type to do a lot of research and then make my own groups so I was able to make it all the way to Provenance Watcher. When I wanted to make a group who would do multiple runs for drops however, I began to notice the large rift in the player base. Part of that is because people just don't want to put in the time and effort to learn how these things work but I feel at least a little bit is because some of the events are just so dang complicated. I think if there were some events that were more simplified and user-friendly, people could get decent equipment that would boost their confidence and allow them to attempt the harder stuff.

[Daemon]

I think your comment should be directed at the developer, not the players.



I agree. I miss the old days when I would spend 7 hours trying to gather enough people to form a group and then spend the next 20 hours level synched to a 37 killing colibris in past west ronfaure until I hit 75.

I also really miss soloing BLM all the way to 75 because no one wanted BLMs in a group. That was way better than leveling BLM -99 in abyssea and then soloing all my skill ups. I Learned way more soloing goblin pets in one nuke than I ever did soloing monsters at 99. Knowing how to solo a level 40 pet is way more important than anything else on BLM.

My favorite thing was spending 3 hours begging for some bard to come join our merit party so that we could rape colibris for 15 minutes before the JP red mage randomly said "I'm Sleepy, See you again!" and promptly warped out leaving the whole party to wipe.

Or standing around with my flag up on thief for days on end. Or starting my own party on thief and having everyone say they don't want to party unless the party has 3 polearm sams and 2 bards.

Or soloing on paladin because wtf do we need a tank in an exp party for?

Best part was running for a half an hour to get to a camp and then the mage d/cs and then the party has to disband because no new mages can be found.

I also miss searching for people, but there's no one at your level range.

Or fighting Crabs and then more crabs and then more crabs and then when you finally level into a new camp... more crabs... I learned so much from that. Now whenever I go to NNI, Legion, Dynamis, Einherjar, Sea, Sky, VW, Skirmish, Delve... I know exactly how to handle the endless onslaught of crabs, unlike these abyssea noobs who leveled and skilled up by just killing the same thing over and over forever.

Tanking on dancer all the way to 75 taught me so much about what I would be expected to do in an endgame party. If I ever get in an endgame event on dancer, I'll know exactly what to do. I just can't wait to show off my veteran skills.

My biggest regret is leeching my red mage to 99 on my mule. I'm sure I could have learned so many things that I missed during the first 3 times that I leveled red mage and all the events I did on it. Level 75? This is it? Why do we still feel so powerless argh.

/s

I think your observation is not the same with Stompa due to differences in time.

Pre/During ToAu
Stompa maybe referring to a moment when FFXI Was filled with many fresh new players. Exploring, learning, appreciating the game as they progressed. Nothing was rushed. You could actually enjoy the armor for 10 levels or more after putting your sweat and blood farming the gil to pay for them.

During/Post ToAu
You sound like you are talking about a moment when ToAU was released and people just stopped caring and lost hope because how hard and painfully slow people started realizing the game was. Loss of motivation for things like not being able to find people or get into an exp party. Level 75 and this is it?? Why do I feel so powerless argh.

Then came Level Sync, Gov, Abby etc..

Day 1/Present day
I was disappointed to see the same monster on a daily basis for hours and hours, getting the same exp no matter the level (Outside of Abby of course). Just it took longer to kill at 75 than level 1.

A decade later...


I'm still sick of seeing crabs...

[Godofgods]

Reason: Ppl want and expect everything. Yet they are happy with nothing.

[Daemon]

Lol, had to edit my post, moving it sorry.

[Torreto]

This is random and not to the point but guys I need help. I cancelled my relic upgrade and nothing happened he did not giv me my shield back or nothing... please help ; ;

[Daemon]

This is random and not to the point but guys I need help. I cancelled my relic upgrade and nothing happened he did not giv me my shield back or nothing... please help ; ;

You might want to call a GM or report it on the bug thread.

[Daemon]

Opinion: Too many items, equipment, endlessly being released is making it worse for players who level multiple jobs.

Reason: Not enough inventory/storage options.

Solution: Ditch all NON-AF/Mission equipment, give us base item legs, hands, head, back, etc, according to the job, with sprite customizing options. Allow us to endlessly alter and improve stats up til cap point through quests and tier upgrades like Delve Equipment. That way instead of having 5+ pieces for refresh, -PDT and every other set out there, We could upgrade our base item up to max cap and add other stats on the same piece which would correct inventory space and lessen the amount of gear for every job we play.

Allowing NMs, Bosses, and areas in different parts of other content drop upgrade parts would prevent defeating the purpose to hunt them if gear was removed.

Include upgrade parts for changing sprites.
Current NPCs selling rare/ex equipment can be changed to sell synthesis materials for sprite customizing options.

Having completed all AF3 fully upgraded to unlock a quest to obtain base items would prevent skipping Abyssea content and anyone from rushing to the end including RMT.

Restrict Abyssea gear for Abyssea Only
Restrict SoA gear for Adoulin Only
This would prevent new content overpowering older content.
& thwart RMT from obtaining gear instantly leaving only Auction House/ AF to their use.

Quests for unlocking Tiers to prevent obtaining upgrades too fast.

Fact: I know it can be done, proof is shown through Synergy, Magian trials, Delve Upgrades...

Aftermath: Would make every content relevant again. Including BCNM, HNM, VW, ZNM, Sky, Sea, Meebles, Campaign... Also eliminating the conflict of current content making previous content irelevent. Because no 1 item will be labeled the best, elitism would be thrown out the door bringing the community back together for parties for all areas of the game to collect upgrade parts. Players spreading out in all parts of the game and not limited to abyssea / just delve only would also make it easier for people to interact with new/returning players who need help.

Leave basic gear sold in AH for players leveling to 1-99. Make Tier option available as End Game.

Comment: People have already shown how eager and willing they are to hunt airelixers for max upgrading delve items, I'm sure people would do it for other equipment considered as endgame.. Difference is, spreading out upgrade parts all over the land rather than limit to 1 area only would make this a game changer.

Or allow us to combine existing gears and its stats into 1 piece accordingly.

[Daemon]

Here is a short version.

Opinion: REM irrelevant, Older Content made useless due to newer content.
Reason: Items too powerful, not worth using any previous items when the most powerful items rule over everything else.
Solution: Restrict Delve gear for Delve, Adoulin Gear for Adoulin content.
Purpose: To prevent making the game pointless.

[Babygyrl]

Opinion/Problem Abyessia Add On's Allowance of Jobs below 75.

Reason: Because people below level 75 are allowed into abby, "leaching" has run a muck.. No new players prior to Abby release knows how to play a job PROPERLY. Standing around keying chests teaches you nothing on how to play a job. You learn how to play a job by actually playing it Solo and in an actual 6 person exp party. As a result of this, "end Game" as we know it that has kept the game going has had to become "easier" to accommodate instant gratification. In addition, now the game is trying to go back in this direction, but 18 man alliances have difficulty finding people who know how to play the job correctly.. so new end game is more difficult then old end game content because of this new "challenge of finding decent players." its super pathetic when a WHM 99 cant keep a PLD tanking ONE delve NM alive when the NM is not even claimed.

Solution: Well its too late to change the cap.. the damage is done and once your on easy street you can not go back.. Only real solution I can suggest is making all new "end game" contact more low man friendly.. only for lack of decent players available. or at minimum Equal equipment/wep. alternatives.

[Daemon]

Opinion/Problem Abyessia Add On's Allowance of Jobs below 75.

Reason: Because people below level 75 are allowed into abby, "leaching" has run a muck.. No new players prior to Abby release knows how to play a job PROPERLY. Standing around keying chests teaches you nothing on how to play a job. You learn how to play a job by actually playing it Solo and in an actual 6 person exp party. As a result of this, "end Game" as we know it that has kept the game going has had to become "easier" to accommodate instant gratification. In addition, now the game is trying to go back in this direction, but 18 man alliances have difficulty finding people who know how to play the job correctly.. so new end game is more difficult then old end game contact was because of this new "challenge." its super pathetic when a WHM 99 cant keep a PLD tanking ONE delve NM alive when the NM is not even claimed.

Solution: Well its too late to change the cap.. the damage is done and once your on easy street you can not go back.. Only real solution I can suggest is making all new "end game" contact more low many friendly.. only for lack of decent players available. or at minimum Equal equipment/wep alternatives.

And I thought I was the only one who thought its pointless to have 18 people level 22+ gang banging a level 15 skeleton...

I miss 6 man parties. You actually had time to kill it, rather than have 5-6 other level 99 players rushing to one shot the easy prey worm you just engaged in.

[Spectreman]

After 11 years SE still focus on hardcore players rather than casuals. This is a failed strategy in todays business. You get those always angry/starving-for-content players (that represents 5-10% of the playerbase) happy for a couple of weeks and turns the progression for the majority almost into Mission Impossible.

The majority realizes the game doesn't offer enough rewards without loads of time (which is incompatible with a healthy social person) and simply quit without warning. A minority of those come to the forums trying to warn SE in vain. FFXi bleeds subscriptions and word of mouth makes it sure newcomers are not enough to replenish the playerbase.

Playerbase dwindles through time and finally comes to a point where keeping the servers on it barely profitable, so SE decides to reassign their manpower to other projects and pull the plug. End of FF11.

[Daemon]

After 11 years SE still focus on hardcore players rather than casuals. This is a failed strategy in todays business. You get those always angry/starving-for-content players (that represents 5-10% of the playerbase) happy for a couple of weeks and turns the progression for the majority almost into Mission Impossible.

The majority realizes the game doesn't offer enough rewards without loads of time (which is incompatible with a healthy social person) and simply quit without warning. A minority of those come to the forums trying to warn SE in vain. FFXi bleeds subscriptions and word of mouth makes it sure newcomers are not enough to replenish the playerbase.

Playerbase dwindles through time and finally comes to a low point where keeping the servers on it barely profitable, so SE decided to pull the plug. End of FF11.

Not debating with you as I respect your point of view. But I wanted to share my take on it.

FFXI started out perfectly fine, well thought out, great storyline, player base was flourishing. Everyone was at different levels therefore high level players would hang out with low levels to help out. Some maybe out of power and the feeling of being able to do good while secretly showing off their accomplishment. Emotional reward of impressing others with level status. We know we've all done it, one of those things we just know but never talk about.

Leveling was fine, questing, making progress was fine.

Then players reached 75 and things started happening. Fish botters started to appear, HNMLS were being made, then hacks for HNMLS groups were being used. Claiming NM before sprite even appeared, Gil was becoming an illegal business, some players buying gil were ruining the economy.

Then SE felt the need to toss in a new expansion because other than HNMLS, what else was there to do?

Then new jobs came out, changes were starting to happen where people were replacing old jobs for the new ones. Because Bard was given Mage Ballad people started leaving out WHM to get a RDM, BRD, BLM instead because back then 2 jobs with Cure 3 with RDM Cure 4, also Protect 4 & Shell 4 and faster MP refresh was a good enough reason to leave WHM out. Same thing applies to DD.

RDM being left out because Bard can Refresh, Dispel and give Melee buffs.

So yeah, favoritism of certain jobs were leaving out people who didn't play what leaders wanted. And who wanted to level a new job during that moment in time when it took some up to a year just to reach 75.

On top of that players started having trouble finding invites as more players were reaching 75.

And earning gil back then was massively horrible just to even think about it...
It was obvious back then who was buying gil.

One day your friend was gimp the next day logged back on pimp.

Imagine that it took you forever to earn 1 item, then you see someone you've partied and hung out with all of a sudden rockin out items like kraken club..

Lots of people complained, rage quit because of this.

Then came the ban hammer. People who spent all that real money and massive amounts of time for being stupid trying to take the easy way out than be legit.

When level cap started to get raised, people were getting skills of jobs allowing players to do without the main job used as subs.
People started to feel the game was becoming ruined. From RMT, unfair Hacks, Elitism from HNMLS, new jobs replacing old ones.

RDM became useless after resist was added to NMs.

Point is, changes in the game always has its bad effects.Like how Abbysea allowing people to level fast making a good portion of crafters irrelevant. Like how Delve made all other weapons irrelevant including REM.

But SE is not entirely at fault here. It's also the playerbase and RMT that forces SE to make changes. For every 1 solution the Dev team tries to correct, several negative effects add on to the change meant to be for the better.

Then the inevitable question of how to keep those at the very end happy.

Before SoA, all content was created for casual players. Many endgame players wanted something more.


We just didn't expect SE to go overboard....

[Tamoa]

This is random and not to the point but guys I need help. I cancelled my relic upgrade and nothing happened he did not giv me my shield back or nothing... please help ; ;

If you trade in materials and currency to the goblin and then cancel it, you will not get your items/currency back.

[Lotto]

Not debating with you as I respect your point of view. But I wanted to share my take on it.

FFXI started out perfectly fine, well thought out, great storyline, player base was flourishing. Everyone was at different levels therefore high level players would hang out with low levels to help out. Some maybe out of power and the feeling of being able to do good while secretly showing off their accomplishment. Emotional reward of impressing others with level status. We know we've all done it, one of those things we just know but never talk about.

Leveling was fine, questing, making progress was fine.
...


Leveling was fine? You're kidding right? Seeking for hours, an average of 3-5k xp/hours (and 5k was considered a great party) when you needed 20k+ for each level past 51 (yes, they lowered the xp needed) and most of the job being ignored because they sucked is the definition of fine for you?
Abyssea/level sync/book burns are a great way to level up and probably one of the few great idea they had in recent years. And if you bring the "we don't have the time to learn the job" excuse, I could show you screenshots of complete idiots who had no idea how to gear/play their jobs way before abyssea.

[Daemon]

Leveling was fine? You're kidding right? Seeking for hours, an average of 3-5k xp/hours (and 5k was considered a great party) when you needed 20k+ for each level past 51 (yes, they lowered the xp needed) and most of the job being ignored because they sucked is the definition of fine for you?
Abyssea/level sync/book burns are a great way to level up and probably one of the few great idea they had in recent years. And if you bring the "we don't have the time to learn the job" excuse, I could show you screenshots of complete idiots who had no idea how to gear/play their jobs way before abyssea.

I said in the beginning it was because there was a lot of people most on the same level. You are thinking at a different moment in time than me. I'm talking about the very beginning.

Did you even read the rest? When I said as more people reached 75, new expansion with new jobs started replacing old jobs that it was becoming harder for people to find parties?

You also have to look at the fact that 75 was the end at that time. With no expansions.

[Lotto]

I said in the beginning it was because there was a lot of people most on the same level. You are thinking at a different moment in time than me. I'm talking about the very beginning.

Did you even read the rest? When I said as more people reached 75, new expansion with new jobs started replacing old jobs that it was becoming harder for people to find parties?

You also have to look at the fact that 75 was the end at that time. With no expansions.

At the very beginning like you say, the cap wasn't even 75. And even after that it used to take months to reach the lv75 then you had cities missions, which back then required a full alliance to clear them.

Also new jobs didn't replace the old ones, the ranged attack nerf did. Before that if you weren't a ranger or a black mage you were forced to make your owns parties or nobody would invite you.

[Daemon]

At the very beginning like you say, the cap wasn't even 75. And even after that it used to take months to reach the lv75 then you had cities missions, which back then required a full alliance to clear them.

Also new jobs didn't replace the old ones, the ranged attack nerf did. Before that if you weren't a ranger or a black mage you were forced to make your owns parties or nobody would invite you.

Yeah but my point about jobs replacing old ones. People started inviting those playing new jobs over players playing old ones.
Cap was 50 at the beginning? Been so long. But anyways, changes has its bad effects.

Problem in my opinion, making us depend on each other through out the entire game to get things done and move forward is what discouraged a lot of people.

Leveling to 75 once was tolerable. Then after people found it harder to find people to do things, adding in GoV, Abbyssea did correct the problem with leveling. But allowing people to level fast, content in Abyssea can only last so long. After leveling every job to 99, content only last so long.

The inevitable question in every game is what happens when people reach the end?

[Mittenz]

I rather enjoyed the old leveling style not so much because I loved the grind but I loved meeting new people and getting to know them, it gave a sense of community and friendship and because of this exp parties quickly became my favorite thing about this game (I am a casual I play this game to play with friends not jump around with amazing gear to say hey look I am better than you) to where I had all jobs 75 (including maat's cap) before people even knew what astral burning was. These days you dont really talk in exp parties, or at least not to the extent of actually getting to know your fellow players. Its pretty much lets sit here while someone cleaves and go to bed or lets run back and forth from dolls while watching a tv show. To me this was always a game that thrived on community and more and more the community just seems to be falling apart.

[Xantavia]

Leveling was fine? You're kidding right? Seeking for hours, an average of 3-5k xp/hours (and 5k was considered a great party) when you needed 20k+ for each level past 51 (yes, they lowered the xp needed) and most of the job being ignored because they sucked is the definition of fine for you?
Abyssea/level sync/book burns are a great way to level up and probably one of the few great idea they had in recent years. And if you bring the "we don't have the time to learn the job" excuse, I could show you screenshots of complete idiots who had no idea how to gear/play their jobs way before abyssea.
I don't think anybody is going to argue that forming a party or the xp an hour is what they are missing. What I enjoyed was the feeling that everybody was contributing and what felt like more teamwork in taking down a mob. I have pleasant memories of moving to a new camp as a group when we outleveled the old ones. I have 2 great memories of this, and it was me being the new person.

The first is when we got too high for the dunes and the group decided to go to Qufim. I had never been to Jeuno yet like the rest of the party. Instead of just dropping me, they decided to run there on foot and show me the way so we could continue getting xp. Another time, we had outleveled the camp again. I think it might have been time for the jungles but I didn't have an airship pass yet (once again the new guy in the group). So somebody hopped on whm, tele'd us to Dem, then we went on foot to Korroloka Tunnel to kill crabs there.

This is what seems to missing now. The teamwork and just playing the game. People were willing to slow down and help a new player out, which is why I am still playing several years later. If it wasn't for some random JP player helping me with the sub-job quest, I think I would have quit after a month.

[Daemon]

I don't think anybody is going to argue that forming a party or the xp an hour is what they are missing. What I enjoyed was the feeling that everybody was contributing and what felt like more teamwork in taking down a mob. I have pleasant memories of moving to a new camp as a group when we outleveled the old ones. I have 2 great memories of this, and it was me being the new person.

The first is when we got too high for the dunes and the group decided to go to Qufim. I had never been to Jeuno yet like the rest of the party. Instead of just dropping me, they decided to run there on foot and show me the way so we could continue getting xp. Another time, we had outleveled the camp again. I think it might have been time for the jungles but I didn't have an airship pass yet (once again the new guy in the group). So somebody hopped on whm, tele'd us to Dem, then we went on foot to Korroloka Tunnel to kill crabs there.

This is what seems to missing now. The teamwork and just playing the game. People were willing to slow down and help a new player out, which is why I am still playing several years later. If it wasn't for some random JP player helping me with the sub-job quest, I think I would have quit after a month.

You explained it the best way I could ever. Most people don't look at the good side of things and some only think about the bad side of everything.

The thing is, most people are used to having things done for them. Imagine no coach to setup that basketball team, football game, baseball practice. Players would be sitting on the bench all day waiting.

Worse part is, getting everyone to cooperate, get the team together. Not many people like getting the party together, but then again how many people do you see willing to play the role of a coach?

[OmnysValefor]

The devs don't play this game, and certainly not on any characters they've built.

They don't understand the issues that are important to us, and they don't understand when they take the meat of a job away.

Yep, it's just a game. Games are meant for fun, and they've no idea how to keep things fun.

We talk and talk here, and rarely they reply. If there's an outrage, they might even promise change but it doesn't come.

[Emitremmus]

Really what they need is to focus on the ability for everyone to be able to achieve nearly ANYTHING in this game with, or without a big group.

Path A for the more hardcore player - More manpower required but faster obtainment of X item.
Path B for the more casual player - Can solo/lowman, but takes significantly longer time to obtain same X item.

Now before everyone goes aborigine up in hurrr...I agree that some items should remain out of reach of those that don't involve themselves in extreme hardcore events, or at least have a toned down version that still has some significance, but will never compare to the full extreme power of Steve.
Example:
Path A Hardcore rewards "Awesome Mustache of Manliness" STR+50 Centuple Attack +5%
Path B Casual rewards "Somewhat Masculine Mustache" STR+40 Centuple attack +2%

But this way EVERYONE has the chance of a really cool item, and it keeps the casual player from not involving themselves in things because they will "never be able to get stuff because they aren't hardcore". This helps everyone be relevant AND within itself would keep people (hopefully) from not allowing some players into groups because they don't have Ubersword +2, but they do have the Ubersword.

[Daemon]

Really what they need is to focus on the ability for everyone to be able to achieve nearly ANYTHING in this game with, or without a big group.

The inevitable question in every game. What happens when players reach the very end?

In my opinion 18 man alliance were created in the beginning so no one could solo or low man these events easily making it also hard to obtain rare items too fast.

We wouldn't want RMT obtaining Defending Ring and destroy the value of such a precious item would we? Take example HNM, HQ use to pop once a week.

18 man alliances were not meant for EXP. Proof can be seen when doing Relic AF2 EXP trials. Or forming an alliance exping without Gov.

But in reality because of the speed rate at which players can level to 99 today and adding the ability to level in 18 man alliance from the beginning. This only put FFXI in Fast Forward Mode.

Also 18 man alliances were for the purpose to stall players from moving past missions too quick, we wouldn't want anyone to beat all of the missions that took so long to create would we? Speed past the content especially if its new. That's why REM was made to be so time consuming. To keep you busy without speeding past the content in 1-2 weeks.

Now that a good portion of players are already at the end, the ones who are not have problems trying to do older content such as VW, Abyssea etc. (Not enough people in that era anymore)

Problem with SoA, Delve was made too powerful and too easy allowing everyone to skip the rest of the content such as Reives, Skirmish, while at the same time power from delve items allow people to ditch older content and forget about everything else.

Now we are reaching the inevitable question again...What happens when players reach the very end?

[Slaxx]

18 man alliances were created because when when content like sky, sea, etc were released the gear and merits that made low-man strategies viable did not exist. Once upon a time you needed the numbers, now not so much (outside of newer events of course).

How exactly are RMT going to destroy the value of Defending Ring? It can't be bought or sold so unless they are mercing it the value is 0. Not every group that mercs things is RMT.

When the game started, no, 18 man alliances were not meant for XP. Things have changed. Relic AF2 trials were added loooong after GoV book burn alliances were added and really are in no way comparable. The goals and methods are very different.

Leveling to 99 fast is not a bad thing. In an eleven year old MMO that is incredibly top-heavy (as all long running MMOs will be) asking new players to wait months to get to the level cap and be able to participate meaningfully in relevant content is a sure way to turn off the few new players that come to this game. The paradigm of leveling in MMOs in general has changed radically since this game was released, fast leveling through GoV book burns is a reflection of that (please, PLEASE tell me you need to learn your job while you level, that argument never gets old, or right).

Accomplishing older content will always be harder than when it was new, especially when the landscape is continually changing. I still see seal/+2 farming runs and VW runs every day. Are they as plentiful as they were a few months ago? No, but that is now old content with rewards that have (fewer) situational uses. Personally the idea of a game that stagnated for years with the same content having the best gear always seemed a bit crazy to me. The endless sidegrades and marginal improvements that came as a result of endlessly grinding the same content and hoping you were either at the top of the DKP list (and boy wasn't it a great day when you got to the top and your LS fell apart for one reason or another) or got lucky on a lot? Not nearly as appealing as endless grinding where I can at least get points to spend on the same gear i could also get lucky on a lot for. It's still endless grinding but hey, it's an MMO, it kind of comes with the territory. At least now I'm guaranteed a reward for the time I put in.

What happens when players reach the very end? I don't know, very few people do. And once you have one job "perfect" why would you end there? That means that there are still 21 other jobs that have room for improvement. I'm sure nobody has every job in this game with "perfect" gear (inventory limitations alone sort-of preclude that, but that's an entirely different debate).

[Daemon]

I thought HNM was before SEA etc. something to do for those who reached max level cap?

It was an example from my point of view, but at anyrate, people did purchase gil and buy their way into HNMLS groups to obtain ABJ for things like Dalmatica. Even today people offer to sell Defending Ring by receiving payment if it drops.
My point was, if low man could do it or solo, then RMT would have easier way to merc it.

Well leveling fast might be a good thing in the current state being that its pointless to take your time now since a good majority are already at 99 with more than one job. Those just starting or returning would only be catching up so they can participate with the rest of us.

The very end meaning you have everything you want (doesn't mean perfectly geared for every job), have nothing much else to do, bored and not as interested once your personal goals have been finished while playing the same content over and over has become pointless with no other places to explore.

[Slaxx]

I will repeat myself for those in the cheap seats.

Not every group (or individual) that mercs is RMT. That is a baseless assumption that is thrown around far to much. My guess is there are very few RMT merc groups around these days. I just can't imagine this game is that profitable for RMT these days and probably hasn't been for a few years now.

I am not saying there have never been RMT in this game (or even that they don't exist today), that would be silly, but those accusations are thrown around far too often. From what I can tell generally out of jealousy that another group has found a way to make money on content that they have capped on and the accuser is still struggling with.

The faster you get to 99 the faster you can work through older content and get up to speed for the new content. At 99 level differential will be working in your favor and even with abyssea base set gear you can accomplish a great deal.

P.S. Not sure what the relative time frame for the introduction of sea vs. HNM has to do with anything. I thought it was clear that "etc." in the context I used it in was covering sky/sea/einherjar/HNM and a myriad of other 75 content former endgame activities. Most if not all of them started out as larger group activities (more than a single party) and gradually became low-man as better gear, merits, and (sometimes most importantly) strategies were introduced/discovered.

[Daemon]

It's really not a debate of who is right and wrong though. I know that not every person is RMT. If you play over a decade I'm sure you can tell the difference. It was a simple example.

[Slaxx]

I'm sure you can't tell the difference every time. Again baseless assumptions.

Just because someone has a faceroll name doesn't make them RMT. That faceroll may actually have some meaning to them that you aren't aware of, or it may be a character originally created as a mule that was eventually leveled for one reason or another.

Baseless assumptions.

[Daemon]

Here is an example. 12 Galka /anon all wearing Thurandaut full set entering Xarcabard Dyna. Standing together grouped up.

Really? NA or JP players are that organized to play the same job, same class, wearing the same gear?

Sometimes I can't even find more than 1 Blu for VW or any other job let alone 12.

My JP LS was the one who said they were RMT the day we saw them.

Baseless assumptions come without reason?

[Slaxx]

It is still an assumption with no facts to back it up (hearsay from your "JP LS" isn't fact). I'm not saying they weren't RMT, I'm saying that you can't prove they are, it's an assumption. (If they're all /anon how do know they're the same job? assumption)

[Daemon]

I never said it was a fact >.> did I not state in my post that it was only my opinion?

We can never prove anyone to be RMT however reason like that gives reason to make an assumption. It's not every day you see 12 Galka, same job, wearing same equipment /anon. Entering a money making spot like Xarcabard Dyna. Umbral marrow is 8.5mil on my server.

[Slaxx]

Actually no you didn't state it was your opinion but I'm sure you'll go back and edit that in.

12 Galka, all the same job (again for the cheap seats: how can you tell if there all /anon?) are going to take down ADL? I'm curious what job you think they are?

At least you admit you're making an assumption, and that's the entire problem here. You are making an assumption with no actual evidence to back it up.

[Daemon]

Why would I go back and edit that? I never edit my post to change my words. Writers, bloggers, everyone spellchecks and corrects their writings.

Correcting errors is one thing, going back to edit their post after an argument with someone trying to prove another wrong is another.


The inevitable question in every game. What happens when players reach the very end?

In my opinion 18 man alliance were created in the beginning so no one could solo or low man these events easily making it also hard to obtain rare items too fast.

We wouldn't want RMT obtaining Defending Ring and destroy the value of such a precious item would we? Take example HNM, HQ use to pop once a week.


Again this is not about who is right or wrong.

Did you read the disclaimer? It's on the first page.

Disclaimer: Nothing is fact, just opinions on everyone's point of view. Please do not reply to others comments with debates because this is not meant to be a debate from player to player. Only an insight of how each person thinks of FFXI at its current state.

People will make assumptions when stating an opinion.

Just like how you assumed I'm stating facts and think ill go back and change my words.

[FrankReynolds]

I personally think that making 18 man the fastest way to obtain good gear is part of the problem.

If you make 10 events that take 2 weeks to complete for an 18 man alliance group and you make it take ten times as long to solo / lowman the same content, then in 6 months all the 18 man groups are finished with everything in the game and screaming at the devs for new content because they are bored etc.

Then the devs make new content for the big shells again and put all the cool gear in it...

Meanwhile the other guys are years behind still. That's when the devs go "we are going to change the old stuff so that instead of taking 20 weeks to finish, it will only take 12 weeks"...

That's like pissing on a forest fire.

Wouldn't it make more sense to only give a slight bonus for big group stuff? I mean if the great shells were only banging things out say 10%-15% faster than everyone else, then the delays between content release would make it possible for the slackers to catch up for the most part.

They also need to be more aggressive with the nerfing of old content if they are going to make it a stepping stone to the next big thing. I mean, I was able to knock out full +2 sets for several jobs with my LS and even a copuple empies when abby was still popular. Going back and trying to build a set of +2s and durdablablah for my bard seems retardedly daunting now just duo boxing everything and I don't see any shells in abbysea anymore. Hell, I rarely see more than one exp alliance worth of players in there anymore.

If these bad ass shells are going to be the only ones beating stuff, it should be because they are the most organized, best players. Not just because they were around at a time when you could max your gear in a couple days instead of a couple months.

As it stands right now, there are huge gaps between the low man / late to the party people and the people who got the flyer.

[Slaxx]

My mistake, I didn't realize that your statement of opinion as it applied to 18 man alliances and what there original purpose was should be carried over to a discussion about whether or not a specific group was RMT.

I will also try and remember that debating a point I disagree with in this thread is not allowed , oh wise and powerful moderator.

Oh wait.

And yes you have on multiple occasions gone back and added to your previous posts. It can be seen in every thread you post in and in nearly every post you make. I'm not talking about spelling and grammar corrections, I'm talking about full paragraphs added with points that were not originally brought up. You do it consistently.

Take some time before you hit "post". Re-read your post. Make sure you've said everything you wanted to say the first time. Adding points that were not present in your original post without the "Edit:" disclaimer is amateur hour and just makes you look bad.

[Daemon]

Adding on is one thing, changing my words to make you look bad is another.

I build my post on a very small cellphone screen. So if you know that I add stuff on to my posts as I go, then you would know that I don't change my words. Rather make a pointless 2-3 line reply, it's called saving forum space.

Seriously I don't have to repeat myself constantly.

[Daemon]

Is this better?

[Slaxx]

Take some time before you hit "post". Re-read your post. Make sure you've said everything you wanted to say the first time. Adding points that were not present in your original post without the "Edit:" disclaimer is amateur hour and just makes you look bad.1234567890

[Daemon]

Sorry I'm at work right now don't have time to write every thought.

[Daemon]

So it's better to flood the forum with 1 liners.

[Daemon]

You should read up on how DJs don't have time to write an entire article. We only have a few seconds.

[Daemon]

I thought my way was better for everyone.

[Daemon]

My way if editing one post rather than reply on every single new thread. Incase some else gets the wrong impression.

[Daemon]

Oops "if" was meant to be of. Stupid auto correct function on the iphone.

[Slaxx]

If you don't have time to post at work then wait until you do have time. We aren't debating the finer nuances of peace in the Middle East, we're talking about an online video game. Time is not of the essence.

[Daemon]

We are not debating period. You keep arguing as if this is a debate. I already put a disclaimer up, I stated it was my opinion. Covered my back twice and you still respond as if I'm wrong.

[Slaxx]

Common misconception: opinions can, in fact, be wrong. Some people are of the opinion that the earth is flat.

You are also completely ignoring the point I'm trying to make. If you don't have time to express yourself and continually need to go back and add new points to your posts then wait until you have time to post everything at once. The OF (unfortunately) will still be here when you have time to dedicate to your responses.

Frankly for someone who is clearly so passionate (if sometimes horribly misguided - that's an opinion) I would think you would take posting complete and coherent responses would be more of a priority than posting quickly and incompletely.

[Daemon]

And? Everybody else has listed opinions I've yet to see you hound on anyone else. Last post we argued, you started calling names which the topic became locked.

[Slaxx]

No one else has posted things in this thread that i disagreed with enough to bother posting. You'll also notice I didn't post in response to the first 50+ posts in this thread, many of which are yours.

I do remember the last "argument" we had. I also remember you having a snit fit and deleting your entire guide thread (which not a single person had posted anything negative in, and in fact "even" I said could certainly be helpful to people). I'm glad you've taken the time to re-post it, there's not much I can gain from it but nothing in there is horribly bad advice.

But anyway I'm on my way to work, where I won't be posting because I don't have the time to dedicate to make my responses complete in one shot. But you know, that's a respect for my audience thing.

[Daemon]

And I haven't shown you respect. Ok

[Omegablue]

I thought my way was better for everyone.


You're kind of being a wiener about all this man.


In a forum with an edit post function, the more polite and transparent way is simply:




Blah blah blah
Blah blah blah
Blah blah blah
Blah blah blah

Blah blah blah
Blah blah blah


then if you have any changes:

Edit: Spelling (bold the word you correct)

Edit: Let me rephrase Blah blah blah, (bold what you're rephrasing in original post, don't change it but rephrase here)

Edit: The point I'm trying to make (italicize your key words in original post, point out the point more her)

etc etc etc.


EDIT: Spelling, see it's easy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vst6DXDnzKw

[Emitremmus]

Somebody set us up the bomb.

[Karbuncle]

List of posts that fall under the guideline of reasons your topic can be locked and you suspended.

Do you not realize that when people try to debate with you and you fly into a spiral of "YAH, YOU LIKE HITTING ME? HOW BOUT I HIT MYSELF SEE HOW YOU LIKE IT, I SHOWED YOU HUH" type posts it just outright kills any credibility you have, with everyone? Even people like me who could see the logic in your posts begins to wonder if all your screws are as tight as they should be.

What I'm trying to say is, when you have an argument with someone, or they try to debate an opinion, instead of throwing a hissy fit like your mom just grounded you from going to see that killer Justin Beiber concert you were looking forward too because you stayed out with Frank a little to long, and even though he just wants to be friends your mom totally doesn't understand and thinks is dirtier... Try to just debate with them, argue your points without jumping on the crazy train, blowing past crazy station and barreling straight to crazyville where they sell crazyjuice which you chugged for 24 hours before posting.

Even if their posts aren't all together or are angry/butthurt, You should keep calm, respond coherently, and watch their credibility tank, rather than sending your flushing down the toilet with your Crazyjuice filled bundles of joy.

Edit1: For what its worth, My Opinion as to why FFXI is declining is because its 11 years old and SE is more focused on its new MMO than FFXI, and it really really shows.

Edit2: I was trying to remember what your responses reminded me of, I found it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NylmdC_uEM ---- uses bigboy words... Just replace the word Dye with "Argue/Disagree". All it good fun.

[Daemon]

Do you not realize that when people try to debate with you and you fly into a spiral of "YAH, YOU LIKE HITTING ME? HOW BOUT I HIT MYSELF SEE HOW YOU LIKE IT, I SHOWED YOU HUH" type posts it just outright kills any credibility you have, with everyone? Even people like me who could see the logic in your posts begins to wonder if all your screws are as tight as they should be.

What I'm trying to say is, when you have an argument with someone, or they try to debate an opinion, instead of throwing a hissy fit like your mom just grounded you from going to see that killer Justin Beiber concert you were looking forward too because you stayed out with Frank a little to long, and even though he just wants to be friends your mom totally doesn't understand and thinks is dirtier... Try to just debate with them, argue your points without jumping on the crazy train, blowing past crazy station and barreling straight to crazyville where they sell crazyjuice which you chugged for 24 hours before posting.

Even if their posts aren't all together or are angry/butthurt, You should keep calm, respond coherently, and watch their credibility tank, rather than sending your flushing down the toilet with your Crazyjuice filled bundles of joy.

Edit1: For what its worth, My Opinion as to why FFXI is declining is because its 11 years old and SE is more focused on its new MMO than FFXI, and it really really shows.

Edit2: I was trying to remember what your responses reminded me of, I found it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NylmdC_uEM ---- uses bigboy words... Just replace the word Dye with "Argue/Disagree". All it good fun.

Exactly what does the arguement between Slaxx and me have anything to do with you? Since the last topic we both had a nasty debate that led to locking the other thread. You think I argue with everyone? I've shown respect to others. I've even stated to those who posted their opinion against mine that I respect their point of view.

It's how people approach that changes the outcome of the conversation. If you flat out be rude, then the response you get will be the same.

Looking through all of my replies to people you would see that. I've even gone so far as to get the attention of those who left our debates in anger to fight it out until we understood each other and even apologized to them for the misunderstanding. You are painting a picture of me as being some horrible person. If I was so horrible, I wouldn't be on the forums offering help, responding to those who ask for in game advice.

I don't even know you and you are judging me.

[Daemon]

The skill up food information is wrong ( not entirely your fault as the NA side has had bad information all along on that front).

A guide was released in Japan with all food effect details. The foods give a flat multiplier to skill up rate ( elshena family combat and pitaru family magic) and since the highest ( Montagna and B.E . W. ) give 1.8x they should always be used.

Do you have a link to that information so I can correct what I posted based on wiki, FFXIAH, bluegartr and allakhazam?

I did put Elshena group as combat, Pitaru as magic.

Also the level range at which those food can be used. Montagna and BEW are the best but i would have assumed the other foods work for lower skill ranges. Price also makes a difference. If you have a link to official info could you please post it and thanks it would definitely be appreciated.

Does this look like I argued back when someone pointed me out that I made a mistake?

EDIT: One of my apologies in another thread.


And to Karah, I still think you are a cool person, although we went through a few rounds throughout a couple of posts, You never lost your cool and resorted to profanity or other ways beyond tolerance. Hope we can patch up our dispute and move forward with a new leaf.

Alot of the things said in the other thread was more likely to be misunderstanding, miscommunication and confusion. Hard to answer several at once, therefore lots of confusion from 1 reply. Thanks for be awesome though. And yes I am apologizing to you and everyone else if you were offended.

Edit 2: I spent over 2 hours writing this out to help someone who asked for advice.


We're both not new, just returning (left around abyssea) we have a couple 99's but we wanted to start some new classes from scratch, so we've been doing THF and RNG. We have gil thats ok and know most of our way around the game (excelt any of this voidwatch or new expansion, we dont have it yet)

We can go to Windy to level, it was very slow trying to level yesterday (didnt see Hawklaser's guide at the time), so I ended up just PLing my friend in gusgen. Would be just nice if we could both lv rather than pling each other just to 30 and kinda being forced to abyssea the rest. So looking for alternative leveling routes that might add a bit more adventure XD

Disclaimer: Opinion... not fact.. um.. subject to human error... debates will always happen even if its not one... Yes trolls still exist... Yes i edit my posts to correct errors, not change my words to make you look bad...and all other things that you see in every other disclaimer.

Ok great. Just wanted to cover my back first before I go on lol.

Here are my suggestions. Although can be a little vague as its hard to determine a precise answer based on many factors of not knowing your gear, ability, skills, experiance, and other things. However I did the best I could to give you a general estimated guess.

Use Field Manuel's for doing pages. Usually you are required to do 5-6+ monsters before gaining a decent exp reward. Setting it on repeat until mobs turn to "too weak."

It really does make that much of a difference. Rather than how much exp mobs give, just killing the number required can be faster once you're strong enough to eliminate quickly.

Don't forget to use Emperor band or sub /COR for Corsair roll to help you gain extra exp. I believe both roll and band can stack.Note: You gain extra exp bonus from mobs but not from page objectives.

Before heading to Gusgen Mines duo, id stick on the map outside of your home nation until you reach 10-12. Then move to the next map and stay until 15-18. If you have tabs it helps to get protect, Regen buff, also refresh if you plan on subbing WHM. Old school we use to level crafting to 50 and make melon juices, so if you don't have tabs, you can make or buy them in AH.

You earn tabs by completing 1 page per Vanaday.

Gusgen Mines can be easy for both of you at about level 15+ as long as you don't link skeletons or pull ghouls. Can most likely stay there until 29-30, at around lvl 27, skeletons might check as too weak but ghouls should be easy prey. Survival & ease also depends on gear and food. Very easy if you can bring a Blue Mage with "Bludgeon" to Level Sync with you at 18. The spell is massive against undead.

Note: Becareful when using Cure or HP drop at low levels if you decide to play Gusgen mines. Skeletons will link and agro from far away. Which is why I suggested 15+.

You could also level up in Buburimu Peninsula by outpost (Just watch out for Goblins) or Maze of Shakarami. Those areas would better suit you if both were level 15+. Although I think staying in Tahrongi Canyon would be faster and easier.

Valkurm Dunes might be safe at around 15+ and stay there til around 20.
Start off either on Rabbits or Lizards and work your way up to crabs and higher monsters.

You also can level up in Giddeus until 15-18. Pretty easy for 2 man setup. Best place to skill up Clothcraft for free. Also best place to desynth ingots for Smithing.

If you do decide to play in Windurst, you can stay in West Sarutabaruta and select either Mandragora or Bee objective. Bees near town are weaker than near exit to Tahrongi Canyon. Both of you could stay there til 10. Outer Horutoro Ruins is great at level 5+ if you want to earn some gil off Fire Crystals / Wild Onions.

Tahrongi Canyon I would do saplings and mandies (Lv. 12-15)until you are strong enough to do pages for Dahmel. Those (Dhamel) should be easy at around +15. You can do page with Bee, Mandragora, Sapling, objective, before taking on Dhamel/Crawler.

Unless subbing Dancer, It's easier to survive and might allow you to do those at around 13-14 depending on gear/skill etc. Just don't sub it for Gusgen Mines as Drain Samba or Drain type spells in general do not work on undead. Ninja sub is also a waste as skeletons often use AoE ability to blind which kills Utsusemi shadows.

Qufim Island can be done around 22+ with 2 people doing worms and crabs, then giants. If you cannot progress past level 28 in Gusgen mines, Qufim downstairs port Jeuno can fill the gap for you to make it into Abby. Around 26-28+ you can stay near Delkfutts Tower until 30. (Watch out for Weapons if you decide to level here, you might want carry silent oil or sneak your way pass them.) also watch out for banshee and ghouls at night until you are 26+.

Outside of Kahzam Yuhtunga Jungle can be done at 26+ Duo. Watch out for goblins. Again it also depends on gear, the job you play and your skill. Some people might be able to play this area at around Lv.24+.

Yhoater Jungle maybe 27+ or Higher.

I also suggest buying HQ armor sets. I know gear was implemented at certain levels like 1/7/10/16 etc.
I believe Scale/Solid was 10, Beetle set was 16..kind of like Tier levels.
If you cannot find them in Auction, shout and ask for a high level crafter to make them for you. Crafters stopped putting up armor because people were not buying them anymore.

Food and Armor does make a difference how well you survive and how fast you can kill. Especially at low levels outside of abbysea.

Recap: From the view of 2 people duo partying. This is my LVL Requirement suggestion for these Areas.

West Sarutabaruta 1-12
Tahrongi Canyon 12-18
Buburimu Penensala 15-20
Valkurm Dunes 15-20
Maze of Shakarami 15-20
Gusgen Mines 15-30

Qufim Island 25-30
Lower Delkfutts Tower 25-30
Crawlers Nest 30+

Yutunga Jungle 25-30
Yhoater Hungle 30+

In my guide one of my tips I added will help you in this situation which I will copy and paste here. It's not done but I've been working on it here and there adding stuff when I'm free.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/35308-Revelations-Strategy-Guide-FFXI

Copied from my guide:

Pro Strategy Tip
Instead of moving up to higher level exp mobs, once exp starts to go down, stick with fighting the lower levels instead because you can kill these easier opposed to spending more time killing higher level ones.

Example
If you gained 150 EXP from 1 Crawler.
And you gained 95 EXP from 1 Mandragora.

Observe factors such as "Over the course of time" and pace.

So if it took 1 minute to kill X1 Crawler but also took you 1 minute to kill X3 Mandragoras.

That means killing X3 Mandragoras will give you 285 EXP as oppose to 150 EXP from fighting X1 Crawler. Therefore lower EXP mobs can sometimes prove to be easier and better in the long run.

Fighting something that's higher level may give you more EXP but because its harder and has more HP "over the course of time" may prove to be slower than fighting something slightly weaker and lower in experiance points.

This way of leveling will help you to gain exp without wasting so much time. Buffs from field manual will help and also 1 person sub Cor while the other sub WHM, you can get refresh at the NPC.

Buying Jesters Hat is nice to have for an occasional Cure II. It has Cure II enchantment unlike other items where you deplete charges and toss out, this one has unlimited charges with a 10 minute recast per use. Can be worn at Lv.5.

Check out my guide also as I'm making it to help new and returning players who are lost or new.

Again link is here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/35308-Revelations-Strategy-Guide-FFXI

Hope that helps.

[FrankReynolds]

Do you have a link to that information so I can correct what I posted based on wiki, FFXIAH, bluegartr and allakhazam?

I did put Elshena group as combat, Pitaru as magic.

Also the level range at which those food can be used. Montagna and BEW are the best but i would have assumed the other foods work for lower skill ranges. Price also makes a difference. If you have a link to official info could you please post it and thanks it would definitely be appreciated.

Does this look like I argued back when someone pointed me out that I made a mistake?

I have no links, But I can tell you that (having spent the last few days skilling up my newly leveled bard on two characters) the B.E.W definitely work at all levels.

[Daemon]

I have no links, But I can tell you that (having spent the last few days skilling up my newly leveled bard on two characters) the B.E.W definitely work at all levels.

Yeah I thank asymptotic for that. I didn't list rates before. Only skill up level range. Corrected it in the guide I'm working on to help anyone who is lost, new or returning.

[Karbuncle]

For what its worth Skill up Foods were originally believed to work for certain level ranges, But it now shows they work in values.

From Weakest To Strongest its

x1.2
x1.4
x1.6
x1.8

Skill up Values, with Maringna/B.E.W Being the most potent in Melee/magic respectively, and Saltena/Stuffed Pitaru being the weakest.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Skill_Up_Food

Edit In from below:

[Daemon]

For what its worth Skill up Foods were originally believed to work for certain level ranges, But it now shows they work in values.

From Weakest To Strongest its

x1.2
x1.4
x1.6
x1.8

Skill up Values, with Maringna/B.E.W Being the most potent in Melee/magic respectively, and Saltena/Stuffed Pitaru being the weakest.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Skill_Up_Food

Yeah I corrected the info in the Guide already. For what it's worth. I don't hate anyone. Including Slaxx, and several others who had debates and arguments with me. The point of debating is to learn from each other. I enjoy learning other people's point of view. Yeah I can be stubborn. We all do it when we believe in something from a personal standpoint.

You can put a glass of water on the table but not everyone will look at it from the same angle, same time, same place... Demon Justin and me argue on many topics and debate with each other endlessly. We don't hate each other.

After our debates, we get together and play some WOE and chat about other stuff in game. Opinion is just an opinion from someone else's point of view as how they see it and not you. Because we know this, we can debate passionately about the game and never let it change our friendship.

[Karbuncle]

Exactly what does the arguement between Slaxx and me have anything to do with you?

I don't even know you and you are judging me.

I don't quite get your confusion in this matter. I'm ringing in my opinion as a bystander. I'm not judging you, I'm just letting you know, from a bystanders point of view, If you're trying to help people... continually sh*tting all over yourself as if its hurting the person you're arguing against isn't the correct method for it. You should simply state your opinion, and if someone disagrees, regardless of how head-in-a** they are, You should never stoop to that level or fly off the handle. Not saying the person you're currently arguing with is fitting this description, I'm simply saying even under adverse pressure and prejudice you should attempt to always maintain your dignity.

Your response to me alone is more than accurately portraying the issue I was trying to address. Instead of understanding what i say, You took it as some attack on your character or some kind of violent insult to you and your moms family... and it wasn't. I'm trying to address that, and the whole "Posting 7-8 Consecutive 1-sentence/half sentence posts because you're angry the guy said to take your time with posts", which I think was simply uncalled for, for what the topic was about.

Anyway, As i stated in my first post, I can see some of the logic in your arguments, I'm just trying to tell you because maybe you don't see it, but how you react to any sort of criticism isn't lending your to credibility and your entire help post could become empty and unused simply because its credited from an unreliable source due to how you act.

I personally think the guide will really help new players, but your attitude could ruin that and Thats all I'm trying to avoid happening to you. I've seen many a good player who actually have good ideas and good arguments sh*t on into obscurity and "Quack" territory because of how they respond to criticism or how they word their arguments.

Don't let it happen to you is all, You'd be surprised how quickly ones reputation and credibility can be lost and how pain staking it will ever be to earn it back, that sh*t will follow you from MMO to MMO, forum to forum if you let it get bad enough.. I've seen it happen. I know people who are avoided by folk who've never even been to a forum simply because their reputation is so bad it follows them in game and off. I know its cool to act like you don't care but I'm telling you you do not want this to happen, because I know all you want to do is help new players with most of your posts.

Do you understand now? I do not dislike you nor do i judge you unsound, I'm simply saying that I do not want to see you crash and burn like I've seen so many others when I can tell you have the best of intentions.


You can put a glass of water on the table but not everyone will look at it from the same angle, same time, same place... Demon Justin and me argue on many topics and debate with each other endlessly. We don't hate each other.

After our debates, we get together and play some WOE and chat about other stuff in game. Opinion is just an opinion from someone else's point of view as how they see it and not you. Because we know this, we can debate passionately about the game and never let it change our friendship.

Thanks for the explanation, Hopefully you'll read this post a bit more carefully and fully understand what I'm trying to convey. I think you have a good solid bit of ideas and your guides are quite handy for many a new folk, I just don't want to see your credibility destroyed because of a few bad posts... and I'm telling you it can happen in the blink of an eye and everything you'd have worked for will crumble like a house of cards hit by a fireball.

Edit: Also always give me a few minutes to edit. I proof read a thousand times but always end up editing the "mean" out of my posts. A lot.

[Almantia]

Anyone want a cookie?

[Daemon]

I don't quite get your confusion in this matter. I'm ringing in my opinion as a bystander. I'm not judging you, I'm just letting you know, from a bystanders point of view, If you're trying to help people... continually sh*tting all over yourself as if its hurting the person you're arguing against isn't the correct method for it. You should simply state your opinion, and if someone disagrees, regardless of how head-in-a** they are, You should never stoop to that level or fly off the handle. Not saying the person you're currently arguing with is fitting this description, I'm simply saying even under adverse pressure and prejudice you should attempt to always maintain your dignity.

Your response to me alone is more than accurately portraying the issue I was trying to address. Instead of understanding what i say, You took it as some attack on your character or some kind of violent insult to you and your moms family... and it wasn't. I'm trying to address that, and the whole "Posting 7-8 Consecutive 1-sentence/half sentence posts because you're angry the guy said to take your time with posts", which I think was simply uncalled for, for what the topic was about.

Anyway, As i stated in my first post, I can see some of the logic in your arguments, I'm just trying to tell you because maybe you don't see it, but how you react to any sort of criticism isn't lending your to credibility and your entire help post could become empty and unused simply because its credited from an unreliable source due to how you act.

I personally think the guide will really help new players, but your attitude could ruin that and Thats all I'm trying to avoid happening to you. I've seen many a good player who actually have good ideas and good arguments sh*t on into obscurity and "Quack" territory because of how they respond to criticism or how they word their arguments.

Don't let it happen to you is all, You'd be surprised how quickly ones reputation and credibility can be lost and how pain staking it will ever be to earn it back, that sh*t will follow you from MMO to MMO, forum to forum if you let it get bad enough.. I've seen it happen. I know people who are avoided by folk who've never even been to a forum simply because their reputation is so bad it follows them in game and off. I know its cool to act like you don't care but I'm telling you you do not want this to happen, because I know all you want to do is help new players with most of your posts.

Do you understand now? I do not dislike you nor do i judge you unsound, I'm simply saying that I do not want to see you crash and burn like I've seen so many others when I can tell you have the best of intentions.



Thanks for the explanation, Hopefully you'll read this post a bit more carefully and fully understand what I'm trying to convey. I think you have a good solid bit of ideas and your guides are quite handy for many a new folk, I just don't want to see your credibility destroyed because of a few bad posts... and I'm telling you it can happen in the blink of an eye and everything you'd have worked for will crumble like a house of cards hit by a fireball.

First and foremost, forgive me if I took your post the wrong way. I'm use to encountering people who like to spend all day debating, arguing over 1 simple comment I made that was meant to be an opinion and not a front page headline on its way to becoming a whole novel series leading us to take the main topic way off point.

2nd, my intentions on the forums is to help people. I'm tired of seeing so many players in game depressed, disappointed, lost, and have barely any hope to do anything because they simply don't know what to do, how to get help.

I'm tired of seeing players ask for help only to be turned away by those that say "you can solo it youself"

If anything, I came here to be part of the forums, write out a guide to shed some light on the many topics that people know and have forgotten. Or know in real life but didn't know how to apply everyday knowledge in game.

One of the bad things about reading rather than talking in person is that words on paper can be misunderstood. I've learned that some people who meant good wrote down words that people can take as sarcasm.

Sometimes when I see people respond to my post negative then yes I get heated. I admit that. Example like this.


This is just bad ... it's posts like these that make SE ignore our opinions.

I'm not here to tell people you are flat wrong, stop being you because my way is better.


Be yourself and no one else because you as an individual is one of a kind.

I try to encourage those who say they "can't" and try to show them they "can" because I really want to meet others in game that can do stuff together. Yet it's so rare to find people to do things with because many of those I've seen in game are busy trying to work on their character.

What made me come to the forums? One day I was camping Gargantua. And a ninja was roaming around. So I asked if I could join. I though he was doing the same trial as me. Find out he was popping T3 VNM. So I followed him around and offered to help him pop it with my Ki.

He said "Why you wanna help me bro?"

And I said "Because I want too."

And this was his reply..

"Oh... Usually nobody wants to help"

And this is why I came here to write out my guide for people and tell others on the server to read it.

I've just been caught up in so many debates that its been hard to write it. I'm no writer, so I spend so much time in game testing things out, trying to figure out ways to explain it on paper the correct way that yes I fell in the habit of going back and re-editing to add more detail than a simple "Go to Jeuno. Do the quest. Solo it youself."

My point is. I never came here to fight and argue with people. I came here to learn from others while at the same time offer help. When i share an opinion, i never intend to spend all day explaining myself but many arguments lead to that.

Edit:



Edit: Also always give me a few minutes to edit. I proof read a thousand times but always end up editing the "mean" out of my posts. A lot.

Believe me I know exactly how you feel. I do the same but some people think for the worse and think I'm changing my post to counter their points of proving me wrong.

Seriously I would never do that. I think it's lame. It's not very mature. If I make a mistake, ill admit I made it. If I have to apologize. Ill do it. I don't need need to make myself look right by cheating. Truth will always set you free. Yet some people still don't get that.

[Almantia]

You two get a room ^^

[Daemon]

You two get a room ^^

Does it come with cookies? D:

[Almantia]

As many as you want! Cooking 58 only though...

[Creole]

Simple, elitist players ruining it for all new players who are capable of playing the game yet can't get into anything because they don't have the gear and can't buy a win cause they want 5million for an outdated item.

[Daemon]

Simple, elitist players ruining it for all new players who are capable of playing the game yet can't get into anything because they don't have the gear and can't buy a win cause they want 5million for an outdated item.

If you have a chance, check out my guide. I did leave an article on how you can earn up to 5 mil in 1 day.
It's possible.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/35308-Revelations-Strategy-Guide-FFXI

Although its not finished, I'm adding stuff when I can to help people get around the game more independently. If you like what you see, check in from time to time as more stuff will be added.

[Creole]

Regardless you shouldn't have to spend 5mill to get an rare/ex item on a dying game where people should want more players to come to. having a massive amount of gil will mean nothing when the game shuts down

[Daemon]

Regardless you shouldn't have to spend 5mill to get an rare/ex item on a dying game where people should want more players to come to. having a massive amount of gil will mean nothing when the game shuts down

Seriously what items are they trying to sell?

[Anjou]

Seriously what items are they trying to sell?

Most likely Twilight Mail/Helm. NNI stuff, Epona's Ring, maybe a Loki's Kaftan.

[Daemon]

Most likely Twilight Mail/Helm. NNI stuff, Epona's Ring, maybe a Loki's Kaftan.

Twilight Mail/Helm
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talk:Shinryu#Testimonials

Eponas Ring
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rani#Testimonials

Loki's Kafkan I've solod Tural easily on Beastmaster.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talk:Turul#Testimonials

As for NNI, you need to find a group of friends to do it together or shout in town as there are so many who want gear from this zone.

Read my Networking Guide it can give you some insight on how to get around the game easier with friends.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/35308-Revelations-Strategy-Guide-FFXI

These things do take time, therefore maybe those who are charging 5 Mil to help you are probably doing so because of how time consuming it can be on your own...

[Creole]

Most likely Twilight Mail/Helm. NNI stuff, Epona's Ring, maybe a Loki's Kaftan.

those and more, someone tried to charge me 600k just to proc red on Shinryu, just wish people thought about more than gil in this game. If things don't change once ffxiv comes out this game is gonna be doomed.

[Daemon]

those and more, someone tried to charge me 600k just to proc red on Shinryu, just wish people thought about more than gil in this game. If things don't change once ffxiv comes out this game is gonna be doomed.

Read my networking guide ^^. In this situation, you just have to find someone who needs the items too that can proc Red. I'm sure there are people since many want Twilight set for Delve.

[Creole]

Read my networking guide ^^. In this situation, you just have to find someone who needs the items too that can proc Red. I'm sure there are people since many want Twilight set for Delve.I dont know if there is a guide for networking with the elitist attitudes of these asura players. It's beyond crazy

[Zumi]

Part of the reason why I am probably not going to be playing after my last month runs out is basically. I do not have a LS to do delve bosses with. This offers a level of equipment far beyond anything else in the game. Not being able to do high end content due to lack of hardcore linkshells left in the game is a big minus to me. If I can't be the best and do endgame content then I am just not going to play.

I been pretty hardcore with the game but not having a LS that does bosses is a big minus for me. SE doesn't really do anything to help players find linkshells. There is no official recruitment forums, there is no in game guild finder like other mmos have.

[Daemon]

I dont know if there is a guide for networking with the elitist attitudes of these asura players. It's beyond crazy

I'm sure not everyone has an elitist attitude =/. There's gotta be some people in game you can team up with and get to know. I just stated important points in my guide that could change the outcome of your problem.

From EXP, missions, Assault, Linkshell, WoE, VW, Sky, Einherjar and several other events that take place. There's gotta be some people you can get to know.

[Daemon]

Part of the reason why I am probably not going to be playing after my last month runs out is basically. I do not have a LS to do delve bosses with. This offers a level of equipment far beyond anything else in the game. Not being able to do high end content due to lack of hardcore linkshells left in the game is a big minus to me. If I can't be the best and do endgame content then I am just not going to play.

I been pretty hardcore with the game but not having a LS that does bosses is a big minus for me. SE doesn't really do anything to help players find linkshells. There is no official recruitment forums, there is no in game guild finder like other mmos have.

I told you to message me in game about it though. I'm sure I can ask a few people.

[Creole]

Part of the reason why I am probably not going to be playing after my last month runs out is basically. I do not have a LS to do delve bosses with. This offers a level of equipment far beyond anything else in the game. Not being able to do high end content due to lack of hardcore linkshells left in the game is a big minus to me. If I can't be the best and do endgame content then I am just not going to play.

I been pretty hardcore with the game but not having a LS that does bosses is a big minus for me. SE doesn't really do anything to help players find linkshells. There is no official recruitment forums, there is no in game guild finder like other mmos have.

if you have a bard or cor come to asura you will find a shout group easily. or even a dd with REM

[Zumi]

I told you to message me in game about it though. I'm sure I can ask a few people.

I mean doing stuff like Tojil, Dakuwaqa, and Muyingwa. I did join a couple pick up Tojil runs and they didn't go well at all.

[Daemon]

if you have a bard or cor come to asura you will find a shout group easily. or even a dd with REM

Lol Zumi is not looking for shout groups. She looking for THE end game linkshells that do end boss events.

[Daemon]

I mean doing stuff like Tojil, Dakuwaqa, and Muyingwa. I did join a couple pick up Tojil runs and they didn't go well at all.

Yeah but I know some friends that are making it happen.

[Creole]

Lol Zumi is not looking for shout groups. She looking for THE end game linkshells that do end boss events.

yes these shout groups do those bosses on asura... successful runs at that

[Daemon]

yes these shout groups do those bosses on asura... successful runs at that

Yeah what I meant was Zumi was looking for a Linkshell that's reliable and can be part of a family than wait all day in town for a shout group to happen. Hang out with people who are on the same level and can relate with each other.

We are on the same server :)

[Creole]

Yeah what I meant was Zumi was looking for a Linkshell that's reliable and can be part of a family than wait all day in town for a shout group to happen. Hang out with people who are on the same level and can relate with each other.

We are on the same server :)"By doing Pioneers Coalition in Western Adoulin
You can do the quest "Clear the way" using 3 tags each Colonization Reive. This will net you 1,800 Bayld" not finding this quest on search aswell as the "blood thread"

[Karbuncle]

Blood Thread one is the Inventor's Coalition. First Assignment, Rala Waterways.

BOOM CITY BRO (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Category:Coalition_Assignments)

That should help ya out.


You two get a room ^^

Only if ya join me sweet pea turnabout is fair play

[Creole]

Blood Thread one is the Inventor's Coalition. First Assignment, Rala Waterways.

BOOM CITY BRO (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Category:Coalition_Assignments)

[/COLOR]

thank you, i'm trying to enjoy this game but logging in to do nothing is starting to get to me.

[Creole]

nvm answered my own question there is no space inbetween blooodthread

[Daemon]

"By doing Pioneers Coalition in Western Adoulin
You can do the quest "Clear the way" using 3 tags each Colonization Reive. This will net you 1,800 Bayld" not finding this quest on search aswell as the "blood thread"

Yeah I'll add more details to better explain what I added.

Look for the quest Clearing the way
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Pioneers'_Coalition

As for bloodthread, I kept it vague as to let everyone know that the item is in demand at the moment. Sells pretty well. It was listed in FFXIAH. It was meant for people to look in the AH and see the price of the item. Check the date to see how well it sells.

http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Gather:_Rala_Waterways

Edit: I also did not want to ruin current in game players camp spot by posting direct areas.

As for dynamis... What's the point anymore? Currency now 3kish on our server.

[Daemon]

my question is how do you sell them?

Auction house under Clothcraft

[Prrsha]

Aby expansion and the skill-up / level-up easymode options made people lazy imo. Turning up in Aby buttnaked and going afk for ages, too lazy to even open boxes, your only actual gaming achievement is turning the pages in a Dom ops book repeatedly for days on end. This kills the 'user input' aspect of being a gamer.
Turning pages in your pyjamas, is not the same as pre Aby xp parties where we were fighting imps and colibris etc. and you had to wear correct armor, not go afk, play your job right etc. Or in WOTG, campaign mobs would destroy you if you were afk and naked. This meant you had to be a gamer and not a naked leech. Attaining levels and skillups was a slow process, which trained you in playing your job, and was also important in learning party dynamics. It gave you a sense of accomplishment and self-worth, which is now entirely absent because you got lvl 99 in your underwear by clicking on a GOV npc a lot of times.
Many people including myself played FFxi originally because we wanted a more challenging game, with slow lvling and slow skill up, and structured tiered system of accomplishment. After 2010 this was nulled in various updates, to the point now you can get a lvl 99 War without ever using a weapon even once. That is where SE went wrong, they should have stayed with the original game mechanics. I think the only good thing they added since 2008 was level synch, because that allowed people to party when there wasnt a lvl appropriate tank seeking. After that, and especially in Soa, it has been downhill. I will continue to play this game as long as it is online, because I still enjoy the core content & love Vanadiel, but I miss the 04-09 era a lot.

You hit the nail on the head. 90% of the existing content is now considered a joke and quite imbalanced. Also, there is no incentive to do such old content as well as rendering all of the existing equipment irrelevant. How does this effect an end gamer? Not much BUT it has a huge effect on NEW players. The reason why FFXI is failing is the lack of fresh blood to this game. Until you give new players a rewarding experience when they first enter Vanadiel (other then the "get to level 99 1st mantra" you won't have the retention that you need to keep the game going.

Want proof? Look at the lack of low level gear on the AH. Look at the current state of the economy. Last of all listen to the comments from new players who have played over a month (if you can find a handful of them). They are chased off by a steep learning curve that "Abby butt naked/page burning" syndrome has caused. They are handed slices of easy mode and get to 99 with ease... and they... SMACK, right into a huge learning curve of a wall called SoA endgame. Most get frustrated and quit due to the lack of a smooth transition from easy to hard. This is 101 of MMORPGs and I have no clue to why SE does not see this.

FFXI used to have this. You used to learn over time how a party worked instead of leeching. You learned how to do large scale events in CoP (due to the level caps it had). The level caps were a good thing (I know you are frothing at the mouth to tell me otherwise, but hear me out 1st and judge after). It allowed low level players to do things hand in hand with vets. It was not a perfect scenario however. I would have liked to see some form of a new LFP system to match players for missions and a larger inventory system so people could store gear sets easily for a level capped event. But those matters aside, it was a good idea.

My suggestion to the problem at hand doesn't take a quick fix but one that exists in several stages (all of which need to be functioning for it to work)

#1 Revamp the inventory/storage system (you can't do capped events easily if it takes you 3 hours to mule for gear)

#2 Slow down the rate of experience gain for books. The current (non book exp) rate is fine now, but the GoV books are not balanced at all. Tone down the rate of exp from a book and allow the bonus to act once per game day. Remove any buffs the books give because this harms the economy by making items like reraise earrings, protect rings etc worthless. Remove the HP and MP tick for the same reason above. I remember the days when yag drinks sold like hotcakes.

#3 To avoid leeching, limit Abby to level 75+ only. The large amount of exp gathered there is meant for higher level players who have more of an exp gap to fill then lower level players. Also limiting abby access will flood the market with vital synthing crystals that crafters depend on. It will also broaden the range of items that the AH lacks (like drops from lower level mobs all over vanadiel) because people will roam to level instead of sitting in mines using fell cleave all day.

#4 This is a big one. In order to make new players feel less rushed to get to 99, add events that cater to lower level players. And higher ones alike. Lets use an example to describe this (a poor one but it can get the point across). Campaign battles in WotG. If WotG was the starting area with low level mobs all around the zone but high level events happening during a campaign battle you could include new players in so many ways. Due to the statistics of FFXI we all know a low level player has no chance to help anyone in a battle situation in the main fight, however, the devs could say... make a small number of support enemies appear of low level that are in the large expanse of the zone. Maybe they can be triggered by clicking on a ??? that pops a level 20 set of mobs with a level cap on. The lower level players can defeat them and as a reward maybe say... the high player group could get extra buffs or even more treasure chests and a much increased loot pool due to the actions of the newbies. The newbies in turn could get gil or items appropriate to their level or even synthing loot that can be sold at the AH that can help high level players. In this way you sort of have a harmony of new and old players working together as common goal.

In order for this to work, the rewards need to stay up to date with the new content and not be left in the dust with now worthless items like that are in garrison and the like (in terms for higher level players). That way there is no need do design a mentality around needing to be a certain level to help your friends. A low level player feels like they are leeching from your higher level buddies at best. There should be someway for them to interact and return the favor. Without this, it gives a bad vibe to the game and doesn't make new players feel welcome among the rest of the population.

This is only one example... if you wish to have more... I could go on but this was the simplest one I could think of off the top of my head that could demonstrate such a thing.

I'm not new to MMOs or MMORPGs, I have seen them die over and over again due to many similar problems. I used to play Ultima Online back in the day and even Zork on the school's mainframe when I was young. I can still play these games and find them fun. The Nostigla goggles argument while valid sometimes... is often times a poor excuse to describe something that "worked" long ago and people enjoyed. Just because technology has changed do I enjoy a text based game any less? Not I. I still enjoy them. I still take out my CDs of Planescape Torment and play them with the very much the same joy now then I did 10+ years ago.

If nostliga was a common problem why would there be so many emulators around and roms? Did the people who enjoy those kinds of games suddenly drop off the earth. Nope. I think the opposite. You'll find plenty more gamers annoyed with games trying to cater to everyone's whim and becoming a clone, then just being creative and breaking away from the pack. FFXI did that for me and it still does... until of late.

I'm not new to MMOs or MMORPGs, I have seen them die over and over again due to many similar problems. I used to play Ultima Online back in the day and even Zork on the school's mainframe when I was young. I can still play these games and find them fun. The "Nostalgia goggles" argument while valid sometimes... is often times a poor excuse to describe something that "worked" long ago and people enjoyed. Just because technology has changed do I still enjoy a text based game any less? Not I. I still enjoy them. I still take out my CDs of Planescape Torment and play them with the very much the same joy now then I did 10+ years ago. The very same thing could apply to books vs. tablets.

If nostalgia was a common problem why would there be so many emulators around and roms? Did the people who enjoy those kinds of games suddenly drop off the earth. Nope. I think the opposite. You'll find plenty more gamers annoyed with games trying to cater to everyone's whim and becoming a clone, then just being creative and breaking away from the pack. FFXI did that for me and it still does... until of late. Instead of staying true to it's concept, it's trying to become a game it is not. A glance at the current leveling system is an example of this.

I know people will argue that MMOs should vastly change over time but I ask why? Why should they change their basic fundamentals? Shouldn't they design a new game or sequel if the wished to do so? Why not save those ground breaking items (of a non level based system for FF14) SoA was an expansion, abby too, it shouldn't have changed the core values of the game.

[Creole]

snip.Sorry everything you mentioned would punish new players and reward high level end game players. Who cares how fast you level the game isnt hard to learn, switch gear, weaponskill, switch back. Not hard at all, only a few classes take more then a few button presses. Point is games are ruined by the community and as long as people continue to act the way they do new players will just leave before/after hitting 99.

[AJ666]

I disagree :D, I agree with Stompa and Prrsha.

[Prrsha]

Never had a problem with the grind, but more of getting into groups so could make progress outside of farming up some gil or a NM item. Now, Level Sync was a good idea to alleviate the time looking for XP parties and so if one person leveled it didn't kill a whole party in off hours. Too bad it ended up more being used so groups could stay in one camp way longer than they should of. Anyone else remember East Ronfaure (S) level syncs for Colibri? Now with GoV burns and abyssea being the main ways to get XP, takes a lot of what was enjoyable out of the xp grind. Granted it is nice having that speed up as much as it is now, but that also takes out a lot of the fun of the journey along the way. How many remember their first trip to Jeuno, unescorted at 20? Or doing any missions before quite a few of them were made easy mode? Or any number of crazy things from trying to solo prime avatars to having Guivre sneak up on your XP party and plotting to get revenge later? Which makes me wonder, what things does a new player have to do that will leave lasting memories for them? Because those kind of things are what help get and keep a new player interested in playing.

With most if not all new content being aimed at old players, it really is no wonder that XI is loosing more players than it is gaining. Which makes me wonder how long till FFXI gets an expansion like WoW's Cataclysm to try and reinvigorate things for newer players, and give some new experiences to older players. As the new players need engaging content at all levels instead of just endgame. Which is why CoP is still my favorite expansion of FFXI, because even though some parts were very hard, it had events for most levels to participate in, compared to most of the others which have been primarily aimed at near end game leveled and geared players.

Well said. People are looking through the eyes of a vet and not a new player. CoP was one of the few expansions that had content for just about every level above 30. SE could learn from this and not just add end game content next time but some new content and perks for lower level (newer players). This point becomes moot however when you can get to level 99 in 3 days sitting naked.

[Creole]

Well said. People are looking through the eyes of a vet and not a new player. CoP was one of the few expansions that had content for just about every level above 30. SE could learn from this and not just add end game content next time but some new content and perks for lower level (newer players). This point becomes moot however when you can get to level 99 in 3 days sitting naked.
With how easy it is to reach 99 it is not a smart business move to make content for a level that only A FEW people will benefit from. They need to make 99 content for all people not just end game Linkshells. That way once these new players hit 99 they will have something to look forward to and not be excluded from. Also abyssea should get some 99 upgrades that draw people back in there so new players can get some af3. Sum it up? Low level content? Pointless, end game content playable by all? Yes please.

[Prrsha]

With how easy it is to reach 99 it is not a smart business move to make content for a level that only A FEW people will benefit from. They need to make 99 content for all people not just end game Linkshells. That way once these new players hit 99 they will have something to look forward to and not be excluded from. Also abyssea should get some 99 upgrades that draw people back in there so new players can get some af3. Sum it up? Low level content? Pointless, end game content playable by all? Yes please.

Please read my post before this one before replying. It sums it up the entire reason why "speed leveling" people to 99 is a bad idea. Otherwise... you are taking my quote out of its context.

[Plasticleg]

Too many posters are getting cancer. It's killing off the player-base.

[Karbuncle]

Too many posters are getting cancer. It's killing off the player-base.

NOT FOR LONG (http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/39465/cancer-cured-stanford)

Jaykay but really hope that this goes somewhere.

[FrankReynolds]

A bunch of misconceptions and stuff

All wrong. Slow grind exp parties were one of the worst things about this game. They don't teach people anything that they couldn't learn after capping their levels. Actually, a lot of what people do learn in parties is the wrong thing to do / expect once they hit level cap. They are a huge deterrent to new players. The idea that people have to level that way to learn their jobs is a complete lie.


Please read my post before this one before replying. It sums it up the entire reason why "speed leveling" people to 99 is a bad idea. Otherwise... you are taking my quote out of its context.

No, he was spot on. Everything you said was wrong.

[Hawklaser]

Well said. People are looking through the eyes of a vet and not a new player. CoP was one of the few expansions that had content for just about every level above 30. SE could learn from this and not just add end game content next time but some new content and perks for lower level (newer players). This point becomes moot however when you can get to level 99 in 3 days sitting naked.

Indeed it does become moot when can hit 99 in 3 days, but often times for someone to be able to do that, they are either are a vet leveling a job or a mule, so know how to do it fast and likely have help from friends or LS members, or they have a vet that introduced them to the game helping them. Brand new players often don't have those resources to make the jump to 99 in 3 days, not to mention Limit breaks and lack of easy travel methods slowing them down.


With how easy it is to reach 99 it is not a smart business move to make content for a level that only A FEW people will benefit from. They need to make 99 content for all people not just end game Linkshells. That way once these new players hit 99 they will have something to look forward to and not be excluded from. Also abyssea should get some 99 upgrades that draw people back in there so new players can get some af3. Sum it up? Low level content? Pointless, end game content playable by all? Yes please.

It is equally not a smart business move to rely on your new players having to have veteran assistance to be able to enjoy the game early on, when most decide if they will keep playing or not. The key is not designing content for either new or old players, but for all players. If you only keep designing new end game content regardless of how accessible it is, it does nothing to ensure new players reach said endgame content.

Something that would work well for an expansion that would appeal to both new and old players, would be an expansion with a couple new jobs introduced, maybe even basic jobs instead of advanced, with an engaging story line and rewards that improve with level that are also tied to the story. Say for example something like Rajas ring, but the level cap for its improvements are tied to how far in the story you have progressed. Using Rajas and CoP mile stones as an example. Say lv 30 Rajas after beat the first 3 promys, lv 40 after Ouryu, lv 50 after Vazhl, and lv 65 upon gaining Sea access, and level 75 when completed. Keeping the variable stats and level 30 equip requirment for all stages, but having an initial reward being available early on instead of only at the very end.

Or even taking stuff introduced in SoA for end game, but also having some smaller and lower level ones scattered around elsewhere that newer players could do to start earning bayld and plasm without having to be rushed up to 99 to participate.

The overall point is, new players need more than just leveling to do in that crucial newbie stage where they decide if they want to keep playing or not. As remember they only get 30 RL days of free play time, not 30 days of actual playtime, so depending on their schedules and other commitments, you could be looking at less than 3 days of play time to actually hook them.

[Stompa]

I'm not new to MMOs or MMORPGs, I have seen them die over and over again due to many similar problems. I used to play Ultima Online back in the day and even Zork on the school's mainframe when I was young. I can still play these games and find them fun. The Nostigla goggles argument while valid sometimes... is often times a poor excuse to describe something that "worked" long ago and people enjoyed. Just because technology has changed do I enjoy a text based game any less? Not I. I still enjoy them. I still take out my CDs of Planescape Torment and play them with the very much the same joy now then I did 10+ years ago.


I still got my old copies of Baldur's Gate 1&2 & planescape torment too lol, and play them. And Attic Attack on spectrum 48k although it doesnt load very well now (it never did!) Your point on old games is excellant, the truth is that if a game is a great game it becomes a classic, it will never stop being a classic, even if newer games have better graphics or w/e. Ffxi is undoubtably a classic game, it will never stop being a classic game, it just gets superseded in the mainstream by newer eyecandy lolgames like 14.
I agree totally with you, Aby should have been lvl 75+ from the start, people under 75 should xp in the old areas, and I don't just mean Gusgen/CN. Me and my friend still lvl in Aydeewa Subterrane in 2013, at the appropriate level. Its a beautiful area and of course now it is empty all the time. Xping in level appropriate areas got people to explore Vanadiel and enjoy the scenery and learn about where everything is. The desert for beetles on the rock, QC spiders, MZ trolls etc.. Troll xp parties were awesome because trolls are one of the best designed mobs to look at, and I used to actually look forward to xping (imagine that!) when we were doing trolls up on the battlements.
SE got it right when they added high lvl GOV mobs to old areas last year~, they should hold that thought and try to keep the old areas relevant to ppl. When SoA was announced I was hoping it would be like Wotg with mobs you can kill at lvl 20 like the saplings outside Bastokmarkets[s], all the way up to enemy generals storming the Allied held areas with troops. Imo both Toau and Wotg were masterpieces, they had a lot of depth, atmosphere and storyline and made you feel involved in the ongoing battlefields as an individual rpg character. Its actually quite heartbreaking to see Campaign npc heroes with their individual trademark /saymode but nobody is there to hear it, coz theyre all in leechburn pts looking at the walls.

[Prrsha]

It is equally not a smart business move to rely on your new players having to have veteran assistance to be able to enjoy the game early on, when most decide if they will keep playing or not. The key is not designing content for either new or old players, but for all players. If you only keep designing new end game content regardless of how accessible it is, it does nothing to ensure new players reach said endgame content.

Something that would work well for an expansion that would appeal to both new and old players, would be an expansion with a couple new jobs introduced, maybe even basic jobs instead of advanced, with an engaging story line and rewards that improve with level that are also tied to the story. Say for example something like Rajas ring, but the level cap for its improvements are tied to how far in the story you have progressed. Using Rajas and CoP mile stones as an example. Say lv 30 Rajas after beat the first 3 promys, lv 40 after Ouryu, lv 50 after Vazhl, and lv 65 upon gaining Sea access, and level 75 when completed. Keeping the variable stats and level 30 equip requirment for all stages, but having an initial reward being available early on instead of only at the very end.

Or even taking stuff introduced in SoA for end game, but also having some smaller and lower level ones scattered around elsewhere that newer players could do to start earning bayld and plasm without having to be rushed up to 99 to participate.

The overall point is, new players need more than just leveling to do in that crucial newbie stage where they decide if they want to keep playing or not. As remember they only get 30 RL days of free play time, not 30 days of actual playtime, so depending on their schedules and other commitments, you could be looking at less than 3 days of play time to actually hook them.

Agreed. Another thing that puzzled me in FFXI is lack of experience points for completing quests. If you want to immerse new players in the storyline in FFXI, non repeatable quests can go a long way. The problem is the existing player base tends to (when new players ask for help) tell them to just leech their way to 99 to solve most of their woes. This leech form of leveling is a form of an exploit on the parts of the game... be they Fell Cleave or Abby early access. If SE INTENDS to have a working leveling system, they need to fix the exploits in them. If SE has no wish for a FUNCTIONING level based system, they need to abandon it. There is no need to sit on the fence about it. It just makes the game look broken to new players. Currently the rate of exp gained is fine outside of the 2 before mentioned exploits but I am sure some players can name a few others as well. These are the most common however.

EXP for quest completion would be nicer then getting say... an outdated Linen Robe as a reward. It would help speed up the leveling process but not by huge amounts.

Regarding your comment about new players not knowing how to get to level 99 in a few days... Most catch on pretty quick because they begin to ask around. Questions like this arise:

"Where is everyone?"
"Why is this area so empty? Do people go elsewhere to level?"
"Why am I leveling so slow and my friend is already 30 levels above me?"

When asked that in a shout, most players either tend to tell the player how to exploit level (step by step) or they point them to a wiki which explains the same thing. So yes, new players do know how to level that fast, they just don't learn what to do with the skills they have acquired until later in endgame (where it matters most). At that point it is sink or swim for the newbee. They either can't grasp the learning curve (or don't want to invest the time in doing so) then quit.

As for casual players, the ride for them sort of ends at end game.... since they have advanced there so fast, they feel that they have run out of casual things to do. Everything seems so serious and even if they wish to do a casual event, they can't find anyone interested in them because the rewards for them are so worthless.

SE needs to take a step back and retool their existing content for newer players. I am by no means saying that there should be LESS endgame content but I am saying that there is a great need for worthwhile newbee content. One that teaches them how to play the game, not how to leech from it.

[Prrsha]

Stuff, conjecture. I like Pie. I use the word "slow grind" in every post. Everything you said was wrong.

Really? Every single word? Every single letter of every single word? To make such a statement defies the logic of ceiling cat. As such, -1 internet for you.

In the words of no no no cat... NO NO NO!

Also... if slow grinding is slow, and by contrast you are implying that means you like fast grinding, but fast grinding is still grinding is it not? Fast and Slow are extremes. The speed to me is not so much the issue as the quality and skill used to level. Exploit leveling just warps the system into something it was not designed to be. I don't like the rate of exp gain when Tanaka was around but I like the current speed. I don't like the lazy exploits however because well... SE might as well place a button on the screen that says "Press to be level 99 now".


Too many posters are getting cancer. It's killing off the player-base.

Is cancer killing the posters? Or are the posters causing cancer? If so, they must be giving each other cancer. I'd recommend a quarantine on =10. Next patient!

[FrankReynolds]

Agreed. Another thing that puzzled me in FFXI is lack of experience points for completing quests.

This is a great idea, but SE was always afraid that someone would exploit this to level faster. If it only rewards exp once, then it will not make people want to help you. If it does then SE will make it horrible to ensure that it can't be exploited.

***For some reason they are not willing to piss people off by adding a good amount of reward and then scaling it back if it becomes a problem, but they are perfectly willing to piss off their most dedicated customers by nerfing things that they have put incredible time / effort into.



"Where is everyone?"

There are mostly AFK in cities. It has been this way since the game began.


"Why is this area so empty?

Because groups form in cities where large numbers of people have access to job changes, equipment, home points and auction houses for last minute food, medicine and gear purchases. It has been this way since the game began.


"Do people go elsewhere to level?"

with the exception of the dunes and kahzaam where people hung out because they had a hard time getting to / from the zones at that level, everyone usually hung out in jeuno waiting for a party just like they do now. It has been this way ever since the game began.


"Why am I leveling so slow and my friend is already 30 levels above me?"

Why do you care? Do you want to be level 99? or do you want to party? If you are in it for the experience then form a party and don't worry about getting super fast exp. If all you care about is leveling up then go do what he's doing.


They either can't grasp the learning curve (or don't want to invest the time in doing so) then quit.

Well at least they got to level a job. They used to hit that wall and quit at level 40 or so before.


As for casual players, the ride for them sort of ends at end game.... since they have advanced there so fast, they feel that they have run out of casual things to do. Everything seems so serious and even if they wish to do a casual event, they can't find anyone interested in them because the rewards for them are so worthless.

Yeah, what happened to the good old days when end game was super casual. All you had to do was schedule 10 hours a week around helping 15-30 other people build a huge mound of cash for one complete stranger who would inevitably take the money and run at the end. Or spend 7 hours a night standing in one spot waiting for the chance to be disappointed when the same bot claims that 21-24 hour spawn NM for the 9th day in a row while missing out on RL because the linkshell leader said he would kick you out of the shell and delete all your points if you missed another window this month.

Ahhh the casual days...


SE needs to take a step back and retool their existing content for newer players.

They do. But not this part. The exp changes are great for new players.


I am by no means saying that there should be LESS endgame content but I am saying that there is a great need for worthwhile newbee content. One that teaches them how to play the game, not how to leech from it.

Exp parties are still here. To be honest, they are probably not much harder to start now than they were then. The only difference is the reason. In the old days you couldn't find people because leveling was tedious and most people didn't want to do it, either that or they were the wrong levels / jobs. Now you can't find people because leveling is tedious and most people would rather skip through it.

The difference is that now people don't level in parties because they choose not to instead of not leveling because they can't.

TLDR; Dead horse debate. They are not getting rid of abyssea parties.

[Hawklaser]

Regarding your comment about new players not knowing how to get to level 99 in a few days... Most catch on pretty quick because they begin to ask around. Questions like this arise:

"Where is everyone?"
"Why is this area so empty? Do people go elsewhere to level?"
"Why am I leveling so slow and my friend is already 30 levels above me?"

When asked that in a shout, most players either tend to tell the player how to exploit level (step by step) or they point them to a wiki which explains the same thing. So yes, new players do know how to level that fast, they just don't learn what to do with the skills they have acquired until later in endgame (where it matters most). At that point it is sink or swim for the newbee. They either can't grasp the learning curve (or don't want to invest the time in doing so) then quit.

Which comes back to your new players having to rely on the vets to get going. Eventually the new players that like the game will find out how to do things, but I think a good game design would be one that would allow them to get hooked on the game without having to rely on outside assistance in that critical introduction time period. A good example is a friend of mine that started when I returned to the game, his biggest complaint was being so lost when I could not help him out with things. That being from getting initial gear, quests he could do, where to explore. FFXI is one of the few MMOs that barely holds the newbies' hands, and at one point in its history it did not at all.



TLDR; Dead horse debate. They are not getting rid of abyssea parties.

They don't need to get rid of Abyssea parties or GoV burns, but they do need some engaging and entertaining content for new players. As rushing to 99 to just start a gear grind is not going to keep many new players around. Let them level as fast or as slow as they want, but at least give them more options with meaningful rewards for this new quick leveling style of FFXI.

Going to use that linen robe quest mentioned earlier as an example, before there might of been a use to it for a very new player, but now its not really worth it, as it is quite possible they either found something close in a brown casket or they will have leveled way past the item by the time they get the reputation and do all the leg work for the quest.

So how do you make quests like that worthwhile for a newbie, considering how fast one levels now? For one, would have to rework the fame system, two would likely need to start having quest items have useful augments, and three add some universal rewards such as Gil, XP, conquest points, or beastman seals to them.

We have this vast wasteland of unused content now, even back when FFXI was newer, quite a few places went unused. Just think of all the zones you don't do anything besides Voidwatch or just passing through now. Like when was the last time you went to Toraimarai Canal outside of doing something like Fenrir?

Point trying to make is that outside of leveling, a newbie does not have much to do until they hit 99 and have to start participating in the gear grind. How do you engage and hook a player when all they have to look forward to in their initial exposure to the game is grinding, followed by more grinding?

[Prrsha]

Stuff.

If you put as much energy in posting solutions for the problem at hand then just shooting them down at a whim with no hard evidence... FFXI would be a paradise by now.

Some people are just doom and gloom and the slightest suggestion of improving a system (which everyone I think here admits is broken now and dying fast) makes some froth with malcontent.

Complaining serves no purpose then to demoralize or flame the community unless you can post an alternative that would fix the current newbee problem (and other problems) at hand. Proclaiming everyone has rose colored glasses on (a metaphor many have used in the past) is subjective at best. Plus proclaiming everything is black or white, 100% right or wrong, serves no purpose either and garners no credibility on your part.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the thread at hand is not really about that. It is about what can be done to help save FFXI with creative ideas. Doing anything else is just mucking up the forums with flames/gibberish/rooted opinions and makes it that much harder for the devs to wade through the mess to gleam any gems from it.

Pearls before swine...

[Prrsha]

Why do you care? Do you want to be level 99? or do you want to party? If you are in it for the experience then form a party and don't worry about getting super fast exp. If all you care about is leveling up then go do what he's doing.


The quote you quoted was not my own but one I have heard echoed many times by others... hence if you read the text before those quotes you'd see that.

I am not quite sure if you are asking me that question personally or just in general to a comment made by another?

[FrankReynolds]

How do you engage and hook a player when all they have to look forward to in their initial exposure to the game is grinding, followed by more grinding?

Do like they did with atmas in abyssea. Give them some stat bonuses that carry over permanently though. Like say
"complete this quest gain +5 max MP" and
"complete this quest, gain 10 max HP" or
"Do this mission line, earn one free retrace spell every day" or
"Do this mission, earn 1 level in the craft of your choice"
"Do this quest to earn a discount on chocobo rentals"
"Do this quest to earn a discount on NPC warps"
etc.

There could be a million little bonuses like that, none of which would be game breaking, but all of which would make playing the game a little easier and round out your character a little. Even high level players would jump on some of those.

[Daemon]

I disagree :D, I agree with Stompa and Prrsha.

Me too I have to agree with both.

No matter if it takes you 2 hours to grind or 6 hours to grind. You are still grinding. However, the way you progressed is totally different now than before.

You can argue how hard it is to find a group.
We still have that problem today. Just in different ways now than before.. VW, Eibherjar, Assault, Limbus, sky? Who does sky as a group anymore?

We have different types of players in FFXI. Some like the grind to be laid back where you can hang out with 5 other people all day and talk about all sorts of stuff. Be there to appreciate the level you gained and try out that new gear set, weapon you were holding for the moment you leveled up. Try out that new job ability, WS in front of those people in your party, or that brand new spell youve been dying to use since spending an entire week from exping just to farm and save up enough gil to buy all your gear for the next few levels.

To us, it was wasnt about the exp. Because exping to us is like going to your job. Yeah some of us don't like to go to work but do we have any choice? Gotta earn that money for bills right? Or else fall behind and get no where.

So yeah, exp was just one of those things that had to be done, yet our focus was more on the atmosphere, the people, the adventure.


Then you got people who find leveling is a chore and just wanna get it done and over with. Because they have millions of other things to do, exping was only holding them back. Especially when you start seeing your friends you started out with surpass you and move on.

Kinda like being held back a grade only to see everyone move forward without you.

Then there's people who can play more than 6 hours a day.
While you have those who only have 1-2 hours a night. Some only on the weekend.

To those who like the new direction. It's because in a sense you feel like you are progressing. Hey I just got 75 levels in today.

Boy I got 99 today, can finally switch over to a new job and start leveling that for VW. While my other job is for Dyna.

Which there is nothing wrong with that because we all have different reasons and different expectations of how we want to play a game that we are paying for.

However. When some people say "Actually spend time learning how to play the job"

It's not them saying everyone doesn't know how to play the job. It's that rather spending 8-12 hours leveling to 99 in an 18 man alliance, we stay for hours trying out different skillchains, learning how to use different gear sets, figure out which food was the best for different areas and camps. Look up monster information to see weaknesses. Explore different areas together trying to figure out where would be the best place to level.

And yeah to us, moving from dunes to Jeuno, figuring out how to get to the new city and do the quests like chocobo license.. Leveling in Qifim to Lower Delkfutts to Kahzam getting lost in yuhtunga and yhoater, sea serpents grotto to exploring norg together, then moving to garlaige citadel, gustav tunnel on to Altepa to labyrinth of onzonzo to Temple of Uggalpeh to Kuftal tunnel to cape terrigan on to sky...

The point that they were trying to make was the game is not like that anymore. I remember so many times I got lost in yhoater jungle, the entire party got lost too, spend so much time just to get to the spot safely.

Or how many people fell down the hole in Garlaige citadel? Or the infamous mob train at the entrance of crawlers near?

Back then we had more fun enjoying the entire game exploring different areas together with friends, small exp groups than today's. gather together jueno lets just do it already and be done with it 18 man grind, or quick gear that anyone can get in a day really. Cough.. Delve...

Remember back in the day leveling in dunes, Valkurm emperor sometimes spawned on your group out of nowhere and wiped everyone out who couldn't run fast enough to Selbina?

Or everyone running back to the entrance of Qufim at night because ghouls and banshee would spawn and wipe everyone out. Oh look that taru whm... run for it.... oh dam... another one that didnt make it...


Death was fun back then. I lost count of how many different ways I died.. Some pretty dumb, some very funny...

[Karbuncle]

For what its worth FFXI Quests don't give exp because this MMO came before that trend. I mean, Its no excuse not to add quests in later expansions that give exp, but retroactively doing it would require more manpower (and they'd f**k it up) than I'd think worth the effort.

Plus, they attempted to add exp/quest rewards with all dem OPs and crap... Just rather ineffectively as expected.

[Hawklaser]

Do like they did with atmas in abyssea. Give them some stat bonuses that carry over permanently though. Like say
"complete this quest gain +5 max MP" and
"complete this quest, gain 10 max HP" or
"Do this mission line, earn one free retrace spell every day" or
"Do this mission, earn 1 level in the craft of your choice"
"Do this quest to earn a discount on chocobo rentals"
"Do this quest to earn a discount on NPC warps"
etc.

There could be a million little bonuses like that, none of which would be game breaking, but all of which would make playing the game a little easier and round out your character a little. Even high level players would jump on some of those.

Exactly, that would be the kind of stuff they could add in an expansion or update that revamps a lot of older content on top of adding new endgame content that would involve all players. And if the quests and missions were engaging, would do a whole lot more for retaining what new players do get brought into FFXI. If I was designing the game, would likely limit those kind of rewards to quests like the linen robe one mentioned earlier(disposable gear quests), and some of the missions, mostly because some with more permanent rewards like spell scrolls or something like Rajas ring don't need the extra oomph to them.

Now if only the tutorial for new players got updated again on top of something like that, might start seeing some growth in the player base.

[Daemon]

Do like they did with atmas in abyssea. Give them some stat bonuses that carry over permanently though. Like say
"complete this quest gain +5 max MP" and
"complete this quest, gain 10 max HP" or
"Do this mission line, earn one free retrace spell every day" or
"Do this mission, earn 1 level in the craft of your choice"
"Do this quest to earn a discount on chocobo rentals"
"Do this quest to earn a discount on NPC warps"
etc.

There could be a million little bonuses like that, none of which would be game breaking, but all of which would make playing the game a little easier and round out your character a little. Even high level players would jump on some of those.

I'm still waiting for them to fix Nexus Cape. :(

[Umichi]

IKNEW IT, YOU'RE A STARCADE SOCK PUPPET AREN'T YOU! ADMIT IT!

I actually had to wiki this.... lol I never knew a game like this existed......

[Tamoa]

I actually had to wiki this.... lol I never knew a game like this existed......

I do believe you have been looking at the wrong thing.

[Omegablue]

I do believe you have been looking at the wrong thing.

Ok, so maybe he/she/it isn't Starcade. I direct you to search for him on here or just go to the Dark Renegade's Musings. Wannabe sociopath ITG who can't figure out why everyone considers him a nutter. It used to be fun to poke him with a stick until he turned on approving all replies there.

[Oddwaffle]

Bottom line is this "SE needs to make the game interesting and friendly for everyone". The whole game needs to be interesting. Not just one part. If you leave a bunch of people falling behind the rest then those people aren't having fun. How? Dev can read through the thread for inspirations but shouldn't follow the suggestions like mindless robots. Only a few people out of thousands of players post here and not all of them are smart, right or even correct.

FFXI is unfriendly. It's hard to play. It's difficult to start when you are clueless. The game doesn't tell you anything. Imagine playing FFXI without wiki page, without forum or any community assist. FFXI has thousands of players not even visit the wiki page for info and just walk around clueless. What to do? Where to go? How do you do that? These are the information SE must provide to the players. They are the casual players. They don't make efforts to find obscure information about the game. You have to spoon feed these people. Show them everything. Quests need to have markers. Items for quests need to be provided with ease (not looking up on AH for a chance of buying them).

Too much of FFXI relies on its community. When the community shrinks, changes or just simply move on, the game becomes difficult to play to new players. The game takes too much effort to play. People just want to have a blast with a game after they get home from work or school. SE needs to understand how to make FFXI engaging but not overbearing. Exciting but not hard. Fun but not too easy.

[Eyeballed]

Reasons: The removal of (forced) gradual progression. Being able to hit cap in a few days of concentrated effort devalues almost every aspect of the game outside of what remains at the end, and what is at the end is all that could remain: modest upgrades and repeated attempts at those modest upgrades with which to grind out more modest upgrades. It is so simple to grasp, and yet this design philosophy unbelievably still persists even in FFXIV: ARR. If they are truly only concerned with developing for endgame, they ought to remove the crafting system, remove level-based progression, remove the open world and find another way because this approach is never going to work.

[Hawklaser]

FFXI is unfriendly. It's hard to play. It's difficult to start when you are clueless. The game doesn't tell you anything. Imagine playing FFXI without wiki page, without forum or any community assist. FFXI has thousands of players not even visit the wiki page for info and just walk around clueless. What to do? Where to go? How do you do that? These are the information SE must provide to the players. They are the casual players. They don't make efforts to find obscure information about the game. You have to spoon feed these people. Show them everything. Quests need to have markers. Items for quests need to be provided with ease (not looking up on AH for a chance of buying them).


While I agree things should be made more new player friendly, I don't agree with holding a persons hand all the time. Not every quest needs a marker, but the ones for new players would benefit from them. Goal would be to introduce players to a common old school RPG mantra, talk to everyone.

Now its gotten to the point of if the npc doesn't have something like a giant yellow ? above their head they get ignored. When you can get all kinds of different information from npcs if you do talk to them, granted not all of it is useful but that goes back to the whole exploring aspect of RPGs as well.

Edit: Glitch happened and posted before was done.

[Daemon]

While I agree things should be made more new player friendly, I don't agree with holding a persons hand all the time. Not every quest needs a marker, but the ones for new players would benefit from them. Goal would be to introduce players to a common old school RPG mantra, talk to everyone.

Now its gotten to the point of if the npc doesn't have something like a giant yellow ? above their head they get ignored. When you can get all kinds of different npc's if you do talk to them, granted not all of it is useful but that goes back to the whole exploring aspect of RPGs as well.

Edit: Glitch happened and posted before was done.

Hand? More like arranged marriage or forever be banished with no hope of support ever again.

Atleast that's how I see it.

[Zumi]

Bottom line is this "SE needs to make the game interesting and friendly for everyone". The whole game needs to be interesting. Not just one part. If you leave a bunch of people falling behind the rest then those people aren't having fun. How? Dev can read through the thread for inspirations but shouldn't follow the suggestions like mindless robots. Only a few people out of thousands of players post here and not all of them are smart, right or even correct.

FFXI is unfriendly. It's hard to play. It's difficult to start when you are clueless. The game doesn't tell you anything. Imagine playing FFXI without wiki page, without forum or any community assist. FFXI has thousands of players not even visit the wiki page for info and just walk around clueless. What to do? Where to go? How do you do that? These are the information SE must provide to the players. They are the casual players. They don't make efforts to find obscure information about the game. You have to spoon feed these people. Show them everything. Quests need to have markers. Items for quests need to be provided with ease (not looking up on AH for a chance of buying them).

Too much of FFXI relies on its community. When the community shrinks, changes or just simply move on, the game becomes difficult to play to new players. The game takes too much effort to play. People just want to have a blast with a game after they get home from work or school. SE needs to understand how to make FFXI engaging but not overbearing. Exciting but not hard. Fun but not too easy.

FFXI would pretty much need a total redesign to attract new players. There is no tutorials, no in game help on quests, or even a reason to do most quests, no guide to help tell new players what they should be doing.

Something like a FFXI 2.0 HD Remix, UI and systems overhaul, essentially its what they have in FFXIV. Something like that most likely won't happen because FFXIV is the new game they want to attract new customers with. The game still has some people playing it which is why they still keep the game up. I don't see FFXI shutting down until hardly anyone is playing it. Even the original Everquest which came out before FFXI still has its servers up.

[Daemon]

FFXI would pretty much need a total redesign to attract new players. There is no tutorials, no in game help on quests, or even a reason to do most quests, no guide to help tell new players what they should be doing.

Something like a FFXI 2.0 HD Remix, UI and systems overhaul, essentially its what they have in FFXIV. Something like that most likely won't happen because FFXIV is the new game they want to attract new customers with. The game still has some people playing it which is why they still keep the game up. I don't see FFXI shutting down until hardly anyone is playing it. Even the original Everquest which came out before FFXI still has its servers up.

Yeah but in order for that to happen, Sony will have to discontinue PS2. Then give it about 2-5 years until ps2 owners system malfunction. Then we will have to wait for SE to remake FF7. Then maybe make a new Final Fantasy movie actually related to the game rather than a sequel to some typical sci fi movie with the same concept as every other alien movie.

Then possibly... Just maybe they may come around to recoding FFXI down to the last expansion.

But before all of that happens, REM, New Red mage spells, inventory, and all other things need to be fixed first D:

[Oddwaffle]

It seems hard but it's actually not that different that what FFXI is offering at the moment. You don't really need to have a big "?" or "!"on some NPC, nor do you really need an arrow/dot on the radar to point the way (it would help a bit though).

Start out with much more detailed descriptions on what to do and where to go in the quest menu. What FFXI currently has is ambiguous at best and completely useless at worst (sometimes you can't even tell who gave you the quest!). It could be something as simple as: NPC A in area B asked you to look for item C. The item is believed to be found in area D from E type of monster.

Then put the markers on the players' map or ask the players to buy the maps from X NPC before doing the quests. FFXI has markers on the map. SE can use it to show the players where to go without running around looking for the ??? point.

For quests that require items that usually on AH but no longer available due to how EMPTY the AH is, a way to get the item must be provided. For example, a ??? point could be provided for the player to fight some easy NM for a 100% drop on the item (make it rare/ex).

Lastly, eliminate or greatly reduce the fame requirement for vital quests like Gobbie bags, Mog House expansions, RSE, Utsusemi Scrolls, Teleport Scrolls and Nation Missions...etc. Worried about abuse on the scrolls? Make it repeatable or drop from mobs. Most old players don't really need these scrolls so no point in making it hard for new players. Possibly extent this to some abyssea quests as some of them require repeating the same thing over again (aka. NOT FUN QUESTS).

Of course, this only helps on the quests and story side. FFXI must also allow people to level quicker solo or as a party. You don't want a new player spending 3 months getting to level 99. A lot of people will quit before that. Make it 3 weeks with 2 hours of leveling a day maximum. It doesn't have to be something ground breaking or hard. 1st, double exp gain (like the x2 exp campaign). Then make it so exp rings from conquests will give 10,000 exp with 1 hour recast similar to the anniversary ring. Also make it so players can exchange it without limit. Finally, greatly increases basic skill up rate for all combat and magic skills (ideally, x5 times rate for combat and x10 times for magic). We have enough people running bots to skill up.

"Oh you will get bad players who don't have a clue of what to do!" - argument will be there but let's just think through this. #1 If you solo or FOV stuff at the current speed from lv1 to lv99, chances are you aren't getting any better at understanding the game than just sleeping through it in abyssea. Esp, if you are in a social LS and not doing much partying #2 Most of the 'good' players aren't that good but actually have good gear. #3 Actual good skills come gradually with experience with actual situations in small party and understanding the game mechanics - which is found by reading the forums and such - so you have to get SE to modify the game to accommodate people without access to forums and such information. This is why FFXI is flawed; it doesn't explain game mechanics to people and force people to experiment it and analyze with mathematics and statistics.

I understand that Matsui can see this point and has been trying to change FFXI. The level on item is for this purpose as well as making items that are more permanent and don't require switching gear. However, the idea is sound but the execution is a mess. He forgot the implications, the changes to the playerbase, the reactions from players and failed to provide alternatives for people to accustom to changes.

[Zarchery]

Isn't the general response to this question "FFXI is declining because my personal interest is waning, I'm getting fed up with it, and my personal feelings are the only thing that exists."?

I mean, that's been the way it's gone since 2006.

[FaeQueenCory]

Isn't the general response to this question "FFXI is declining because my personal interest is waning, I'm getting fed up with it, and my personal feelings are the only thing that exists."?

I mean, that's been the way it's gone since 2006.
I will have your babies.

[Ravenmore]

Eorzea welcomes you all.

So in 5 years we can go though all the same BS again. Thanx but no thanx I learned from the first time. Have when SE starts diverting resources from 14 for their new MMO since you are rewarding the very thing that people are here complaining about.

[Demon6324236]

So in 5 years we can go though all the same BS again. Thanx but no thanx I learned from the first time. Have when SE starts diverting resources from 14 for their new MMO since you are rewarding the very thing that people are here complaining about.So since they made 1 MMO, and are now making a second, you think they are going to do the exact same things with it? Also, this game has been around 11 years, not 5, if they do the same thing in a decade then fine, but ya know what, at least I will enjoy that decade probably, and when the time comes, Ill be complaining just like I do for FFXI, but at least I enjoyed the 11 years up to that point. Sorry but I refuse to think that FFXI must be a permanent example of how Square Enix will always do MMOs, for all we know FFXIV might not be stuck like FFXI, they might actually take it off PS3 when the console is to far behind to support it, that way it can continue to move forward. They could do it very differently than FFXI has been done, but if you give them no chance, you will only rob yourself of the potential experience. Now if this was their third or fourth, and it was a continued tradition for how they handled the games, then yes, I would understand, but since that's not the case, I completely disagree with how you see things.

[Numquam]

The game is declining because we need server merges.

[Spectreman]

FFXI is declining because it's an old game.

[OmnysValefor]

[...] Sorry but I refuse to think that FFXI must be a permanent example of how Square Enix will always do MMOs [...]

I don't know Demon, if you know the gas station next to Wal Mart puts water in their gas, and the owner starts another station on the other end of town, do you expect different from that one.

It's a valid concern and something I've thought about to. FFxIV players might find out that devs are right on top of their concerns as long as the japanese players have the same concerns. 14's advertising so far hasn't been amazing. In as little as a year, you might never see TV ads for it and abysmal web advertising. There's no real reason to expect different especially since it's the same company and several of the same minds. Some minds high-enough-profile that we know them by name, or could, and others lower in the ranks. Many of XIV's caretakers are from XI.

It's a valid concern that they may spend years guiding endgame at a time when none of their developers actually play endgame or understand it. That's pretty common among most MMOs though.

[scaevola]

FFXI is declining because it's an old game.

Seriously, guys.

Have some ice cream and take a nap.

[FrankReynolds]

So since they made 1 MMO, and are now making a second, you think they are going to do the exact same things with it? Also, this game has been around 11 years, not 5, if they do the same thing in a decade then fine, but ya know what, at least I will enjoy that decade probably, and when the time comes, Ill be complaining just like I do for FFXI, but at least I enjoyed the 11 years up to that point. Sorry but I refuse to think that FFXI must be a permanent example of how Square Enix will always do MMOs, for all we know FFXIV might not be stuck like FFXI, they might actually take it off PS3 when the console is to far behind to support it, that way it can continue to move forward. They could do it very differently than FFXI has been done, but if you give them no chance, you will only rob yourself of the potential experience. Now if this was their third or fourth, and it was a continued tradition for how they handled the games, then yes, I would understand, but since that's not the case, I completely disagree with how you see things.

You might have made a point, if they had stopped doing it here and then said "come to FFXIV, we won't do it there either...".

But they didn't. They continuously crap this game up and ignore the players. There is no reason to believe that they won't do it there either.

[Demon6324236]

I don't know Demon, if you know the gas station next to Wal Mart puts water in their gas, and the owner starts another station on the other end of town, do you expect different from that one.Large difference. Your talking about an 11 year old game with a dwindling player base, next to no new players coming in, more people leaving every month, and being tied to an old out of date console, on top of the fact if they wanted to update this game it would take a lot of money to get it up to todays standards I'm sure. Its not opening up another game the exact same as their previous, FFXIV is different from FFXI in many ways, I doubt they will treat it the same, they already seem to be taking in feedback well from what I hear, which to me sounds good. If they start going badly with it in 5~10 years, at least I enjoyed it while it was good. I wouldn't go off a single experience with a format of game they had no experience with when it was made, time has passed, I think they will do better with FFXIV. Honestly, I doubt SE ever saw this game going on for 11 years in the first place, perhaps they will plan ahead for FFXIV better than they did for FFXI which seems to restrict our updates today with massive limitations of the past. I mean I know in a decade the game will probably have some limitations, but again, they knew not what to expect I'm sure, this time they will probably leave things a little more open to change for later.


It's a valid concern and something I've thought about to. FFxIV players might find out that devs are right on top of their concerns as long as the japanese players have the same concerns. 14's advertising so far hasn't been amazing. In as little as a year, you might never see TV ads for it and abysmal web advertising. There's no real reason to expect different especially since it's the same company and several of the same minds. Some minds high-enough-profile that we know them by name, or could, and others lower in the ranks. Many of XIV's caretakers are from XI.I know, but it does seem like they can do better this time around. I don't know, I could be an ignorant fool for thinking so, but I understand the MMO market isn't something so easily jumped into and done well, especially when FFXI was made back when MMOs were fairly small by compare to today and they probably never expected it to come this far. I also know SE and advertising do not go together, I don't expect a FFXIV commercial with Mr.T in it, or anything of the sort, but I also do not expect it to flop and be horrible. Commercials are a problem of SE's failure to communicate with communities outside of Japan in general though, a problem with the company, not just FFXI or FF MMOs, or SE MMOs, but a problem with the company in general. So in the end, its another thing I hope they overcome, but that one I am more doubtful about.

[Demon6324236]

You might have made a point, if they had stopped doing it here and then said "come to FFXIV, we won't do it there either...".

But they didn't. They continuously crap this game up and ignore the players. There is no reason to believe that they won't do it there either.Same company but different teams, this is an old game with a crumbling player base & its not getting any younger/better with time, so I understand how they can continue to mess up this game, but I do expect them to make FFXIV good enough to be this games successor and in the end be a good game itself.

[FrankReynolds]

Same company but different teams, this is an old game with a crumbling player base & its not getting any younger/better with time, so I understand how they can continue to mess up this game, but I do expect them to make FFXIV good enough to be this games successor and in the end be a good game itself.

This game is crumbling as a direct result of their decisions. They chose to cut the budget. They chose to ignore the player base. For whatever reason they just decided that they would rather build a new game than keep the old one. There is a strong likelihood that they will make that decision again. I expect it to happen even faster next time.

[Spectreman]

Seriously, guys.

Have some ice cream and take a nap.

Only stated the obvious. Wow is also declining btw.

Doesn't mean i don't like FFXI though. Still the only MMORPG that i like to play for more than a month.

[Volkai]

For me, FFXI's decline is mostly that the people I play with have largely quit, and the more outspoken of those that do seem convinced it's very important to tell me how much FFXI is declining and how SE needs to do something or it's going to go down the drain.


It's pretty demoralizing, and since I barely have time to play (and XI has always felt like a game that requires 4+ hour blocks to do much) I'm gonna give it a break.


I'll be back.

[Adventurer]

There are many reasons why the game has declined.

For me, FFXI was always much more than a MMORPG, of which many I have played. To me, FFXIV feels like a MMORPG, a really fantastic one but a MMORPG none the less. I played WoW, I played Aion, I played Lineage 2 and some others and while many of them were great fun, they felt like a game. FFXI however, felt like something a bit more special, like an online world you could log into and truly feel like an adventurer in another realm. I think ultimately, even though many can not recognize it, fail to admit it or are blind to the fact, it's what keeps them around hoping so dearly that one day it picks up once again.

I think the biggest problem in FFXI came from the way they decided to handle problems, it reflects with FFXIV if you really think about it. Square Enix tends to fix problems by adding new options and trying to cover them up instead of fixing the problems at hand. They tend to forget about the problems of old and only add new things to distract from the older problems. It's like a doctor who gives you a million dollars to cheer up your spirit instead of actually treating the symptoms you came into the hospital for. When the effect of that million dollars wears off, you still have the same old sickness but now it's taken a worse effect. Instead of simply giving your patients more prizes to keep them unfocused on their ailment, an actual cure needs to be found. As many others have said, so many things are ignored and for this game to shine once more they must face those problems head on.

I think one of the primary things that has lead to the decline of this game is how expansive it once was and how one directional it is in this day and time. I was thinking back to how many years ago I might sign on and ask myself, "Should I do a BCNM? Perhaps level a bit, or farm? Should I do some crafting, or maybe go camp a notorious monster? I might have an event with my linkshell, it could be a Sky NM and then possibly a King afterwards. Once we're done, I might try to work on a mission, or perhaps a quest. I need to skill up a bit as well and I still want to level that one job. Maybe I'll help some newer folks get the items they need for the level cap quest, or help them with an Artifact Quest fight, it's always fun showing off your high level as you decimate the monster they need killed to unlock a particular job!"

The above is just a small number of many options available one had when signing in, there were so many possibilities and what drove people and motivated them to those possibilities were the rewards, accomplishment and joy you got by doing them. Not everything always went in your favor, but adversity is what truly builds character and gives you the sense of accomplishment once you do finally accomplish something. There was simply so much to do and so many reasons to do it. Most of it still exists, but without reason to actually do it, people rarely experience it and the core of the game vanishes like smoke in the wind, leaving only a trace behind of what once was.

The game also use to not only be about end game, it was only part of it. I know no one including myself liked standing around for hours if not days without getting an experience points party, but as I said earlier, instead of resolving the issue, perhaps giving people better options on how to form a experience points party, with who and where they would fight, they just eliminated one of the fundementals of what made this game so unique and what it was. I can truly and honestly say some of the best times I ever had in this game was in a experience points party, grinding down the monsters as I laughed and chatted with friends and made new ones. Again, it made every little thing you earned feel like an accomplishment. Once you achieve those accomplishments, you want to put them into use- it gave the adventurers of Vana'Diel a drive to do more and use what they had worked so hard for.

When you finally got those few more levels and you were able to do a new mission, or equip a new peace of gear, or fight something slightly higher level without dying you felt that sense of accomplishment. You felt like you had done something and it meant something as well. While many people thought this was a slow process, they failed to realize it wasn't always about the destination, but the journey itself that made everything so special.

It was that climb to the top that made the top so much more majestic and beautiful, then doing it again on another job. During the lower and mid levels you got to actually learn the job in parties against less troublesome enemies, you learned the mechanics of the job as you went up so that finally once you reached end game you had a lot better idea of how to put that job to proper use. During the climb you had quests, missions, new gear, new people to meet. Yes, there were a lot of things about the party system that needed to be fixed. People standing around for hours on end not getting to party was no good and overcroweded experience points camps was no fun either, but again, if solutions would have been found to these problems people could have continued doing what made this game so fantastic without the negative side effects.

A big part of this slow climb was that it slowed down mission progression. No longer did you simply go and burn through all the missions in a day, it took some time, but this made one feel more envolved in the story, as if it were an actual journey that they got closer to realizing day by day and once again, that final sense of accomplishment was intoxicating.

Simply put, the game before you hit the level cap was the real journey, it was the real fun and added a full spectrum of things to do all across the board. Where the game once felt so 3 dimensional it now feels as if it is 1 dimension in 1 direction. In this day and time all you do is quickly grind to 30 then open a little box a bunch of times until you reach 99, all of which can be done in a day or two. It removed much of the challenge and sense of accomplishment.

As I said before, it is through adverse circumstances and challenging times that we really learn a lot about who we are, what we're capable of, what drives us and what we're willing to do to realize a goal. It's through the tough missions, hard to defeat monsters and challenges of making it to the top that we became strong, we became skilled and although some tend to disagree, having to depend on others is really what brought us together, taught us to treat others with respect and work together as a team. There needed to be better options and revissions to finding those other people in which to work with, but needing to depend on one another is really what made us such a strong community and what made it feel like more than just a game with other people on it, but something different than any other mmo.

People always complained about horizontal gear progression, but I always felt it was a good idea. Give people MANY options to be A+, not ONE option to be A++++++++ while everything else is left by the wayside. I log in now days and see EVERYONE wearing a bunch of red gear. I know in the days of the Optical Hat and Walahra Turban many people ran around with those on, but there were still so many other options used, especially in all the rest of their bodies. It was a lot more diverse. You could do X event, Y event or Z event and each reward would be different, but they would all be pretty close to equal of each other, save for a few very elite options- but those very elite options were not so far above other gear that it made those without them useless. I sign in now and since I do not have Skirmish weapons no one wants to use my DD at all, while back in the day if some one didn't have a relic weapon or adaberk, but had all the proper gear and merit they held just about the same level of respect if not more.

Merit parties added on to the whole idea of gathering experience points and was a sort of "proving grounds" to show what you had accomplished and could do once you got to the top. It's how so many end game linkshells met members and recruited. More often than not, it wasn't about the gear as much as it was the player. That guy who constantly AFK'd in his adaberk was laughed out of the party while the one who was consistently doing his job, using food and putting out high numbers in the normal hauberk was respected and invited to join many different events.

Let's also not forget how many missions gave you an incredible item, giving us further motivation to finish storylines and reap a reward from it in the end. The game had a lot more depth too it, it was a lot more complex in so many ways...

What's happening now is that people are getting bored and many don't know why. People have had issues trusting Square Enix sense the level cap was originally raised from 75 way back when. I remember spending so many years gathering so much gear, putting so much into my character and really enjoying what I had become only to be told all that hard work was for nothing and those items had been made useless by new ones added. "Why are these new items so much better than everything else? Who's going to want to do all these old events now?" it really concerned me, even then I saw much of this coming. With Abyssea people began to simply "Grind for Gear" and after spending so much time and hard work, much of that gear was replaced, as was that and so on and so forth over and over. People now feel much like they're on a treadmill chasing a carrot, constantly running in a strait line always with that one goal and so few other options.

So much of the game has been abandoned, forgotten and not cared for. People no longer stop to smell the roses, because there is no need to, no reason to and the paths we take lead no where near those roses.

I myself? I still sign on and put on my full set of Relic Armor, a set I once worked so hard to achieve. I go around and do little quests, craft, fish and try to experience Vana'Diel, a ghost of what it once was. I miss standing around with others in Selbina, chatting about the goblins in Valkurm dunes. I miss climbing Delkfutts Tower to get a Dark Knight friend his Artifact Helm, I miss being sent all over the world for many different reasons.

Many will yell and scream, disagree with me as they stare at the carrot they'll never really catch, basking in the "AMAZING STATS" the new gear has without stopping to realize what those stats were even once used for, the many things they helped us do.

I believe FFXI is a incredible world and I would like to personally thank the people who developed it, wrote the stories and made Vana'Diel so incredible. I went through many hardships in my real life and when I never felt like I had a home in the real world, I always felt truly at home in Vana'Diel. For that, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I always thought of FFXI like a tree. As time went on, it only grew more and became more majestic. If a branch died or was struck it only needed to be trimmed, pruned and allowed to grow further, flourishing on and on instead of simply being bulldozed to plant new trees, new shrubbery over and over again.

Take with it what you will, but ask almost anyone what was more rewarding, fulfilling, exciting and fun. Even with all the problems it once had, the old Vana'Diel, or the Vana'Diel of today.

[Llama]

I am for the most part always a forum lurker, rarely a poster. I automatically would skip/skim a wall of txt, but your opening sentence is why I kept reading. I read many of the posts, and they all have similar or equally valid opinion, but there are some parts I pulled out I think everyone, especially the developers should read. Thank you for posting this, I myself could never of expressed it so well.



For me, FFXI was always much more than a MMORPG, of which many I have played. FFXI however, felt like something a bit more special, like an online world you could log into and truly feel like an adventurer in another realm.



I think one of the primary things that has lead to the decline of this game is how expansive it once was and how one directional it is in this day and time. I was thinking back to how many years ago I might sign on and ask myself, "Should I do a BCNM? Perhaps level a bit, or farm? Should I do some crafting, or maybe go camp a notorious monster? I might have an event with my linkshell, it could be a Sky NM and then possibly a King afterwards. Once we're done, I might try to work on a mission, or perhaps a quest. I need to skill up a bit as well and I still want to level that one job. Maybe I'll help some newer folks get the items they need for the level cap quest, or help them with an Artifact Quest fight, it's always fun showing off your high level as you decimate the monster they need killed to unlock a particular job!"



There was simply so much to do and so many reasons to do it. Most of it still exists, but without reason to actually do it, people rarely experience it and the core of the game vanishes like smoke in the wind, leaving only a trace behind of what once was.



The game also use to not only be about end game, it was only part of it.



No longer did you simply go and burn through all the missions in a day, it took some time, but this made one feel more evolved in the story, as if it were an actual journey that they got closer to realizing day by day and once again, that final sense of accomplishment was intoxicating.



Where the game once felt so 3 dimensional it now feels as if it is 1 dimension in 1 direction.



I sign in now and since I do not have Skirmish weapons no one wants to use my DD at all, while back in the day if some one didn't have a relic weapon or adaberk, but had all the proper gear and merit they held just about the same level of respect if not more.



What's happening now is that people are getting bored and many don't know why.



People now feel much like they're on a treadmill chasing a carrot, constantly running in a strait line always with that one goal and so few other options.



So much of the game has been abandoned, forgotten and not cared for. People no longer stop to smell the roses, because there is no need to, no reason to and the paths we take lead no where near those roses.



I myself? I still sign on and put on my full set of Relic Armor, a set I once worked so hard to achieve.



I believe FFXI is a incredible world and I would like to personally thank the people who developed it, wrote the stories and made Vana'Diel so incredible. I went through many hardships in my real life and when I never felt like I had a home in the real world, I always felt truly at home in Vana'Diel. For that, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[Daemon]

People now feel much like they're on a treadmill chasing a carrot

At this point of the game since the majority of players are 99 at the end. We are the carrot and the DEV TEAM is running on our treadmill.

[Byrth]

No, the dev team is off in the other room having a snack. They cannot create enough content to sustain a vertical progression model even for casuals, let alone hardcores. They abandoned a much more sustainable model in favor of this treadmill of fail. I have not played seriously in a month and bet I can max out my jobs again in two nights after work.

Adoulin is bad design blended with terrible ideas and dusted with a pinch of "who really cares what the players want?"

[Anjou]

There are many reasons why the game has declined.

For me, FFXI was always much more than a MMORPG, of which many I have played. To me, FFXIV feels like a MMORPG, a really fantastic one but a MMORPG none the less. I played WoW, I played Aion, I played Lineage 2 and some others and while many of them were great fun, they felt like a game. FFXI however, felt like something a bit more special, like an online world you could log into and truly feel like an adventurer in another realm. I think ultimately, even though many can not recognize it, fail to admit it or are blind to the fact, it's what keeps them around hoping so dearly that one day it picks up once again.

I think the biggest problem in FFXI came from the way they decided to handle problems, it reflects with FFXIV if you really think about it. Square Enix tends to fix problems by adding new options and trying to cover them up instead of fixing the problems at hand. They tend to forget about the problems of old and only add new things to distract from the older problems. It's like a doctor who gives you a million dollars to cheer up your spirit instead of actually treating the symptoms you came into the hospital for. When the effect of that million dollars wears off, you still have the same old sickness but now it's taken a worse effect. Instead of simply giving your patients more prizes to keep them unfocused on their ailment, an actual cure needs to be found. As many others have said, so many things are ignored and for this game to shine once more they must face those problems head on.

I think one of the primary things that has lead to the decline of this game is how expansive it once was and how one directional it is in this day and time. I was thinking back to how many years ago I might sign on and ask myself, "Should I do a BCNM? Perhaps level a bit, or farm? Should I do some crafting, or maybe go camp a notorious monster? I might have an event with my linkshell, it could be a Sky NM and then possibly a King afterwards. Once we're done, I might try to work on a mission, or perhaps a quest. I need to skill up a bit as well and I still want to level that one job. Maybe I'll help some newer folks get the items they need for the level cap quest, or help them with an Artifact Quest fight, it's always fun showing off your high level as you decimate the monster they need killed to unlock a particular job!"

The above is just a small number of many options available one had when signing in, there were so many possibilities and what drove people and motivated them to those possibilities were the rewards, accomplishment and joy you got by doing them. Not everything always went in your favor, but adversity is what truly builds character and gives you the sense of accomplishment once you do finally accomplish something. There was simply so much to do and so many reasons to do it. Most of it still exists, but without reason to actually do it, people rarely experience it and the core of the game vanishes like smoke in the wind, leaving only a trace behind of what once was.

The game also use to not only be about end game, it was only part of it. I know no one including myself liked standing around for hours if not days without getting an experience points party, but as I said earlier, instead of resolving the issue, perhaps giving people better options on how to form a experience points party, with who and where they would fight, they just eliminated one of the fundementals of what made this game so unique and what it was. I can truly and honestly say some of the best times I ever had in this game was in a experience points party, grinding down the monsters as I laughed and chatted with friends and made new ones. Again, it made every little thing you earned feel like an accomplishment. Once you achieve those accomplishments, you want to put them into use- it gave the adventurers of Vana'Diel a drive to do more and use what they had worked so hard for.

When you finally got those few more levels and you were able to do a new mission, or equip a new peace of gear, or fight something slightly higher level without dying you felt that sense of accomplishment. You felt like you had done something and it meant something as well. While many people thought this was a slow process, they failed to realize it wasn't always about the destination, but the journey itself that made everything so special.

It was that climb to the top that made the top so much more majestic and beautiful, then doing it again on another job. During the lower and mid levels you got to actually learn the job in parties against less troublesome enemies, you learned the mechanics of the job as you went up so that finally once you reached end game you had a lot better idea of how to put that job to proper use. During the climb you had quests, missions, new gear, new people to meet. Yes, there were a lot of things about the party system that needed to be fixed. People standing around for hours on end not getting to party was no good and overcroweded experience points camps was no fun either, but again, if solutions would have been found to these problems people could have continued doing what made this game so fantastic without the negative side effects.

A big part of this slow climb was that it slowed down mission progression. No longer did you simply go and burn through all the missions in a day, it took some time, but this made one feel more envolved in the story, as if it were an actual journey that they got closer to realizing day by day and once again, that final sense of accomplishment was intoxicating.

Simply put, the game before you hit the level cap was the real journey, it was the real fun and added a full spectrum of things to do all across the board. Where the game once felt so 3 dimensional it now feels as if it is 1 dimension in 1 direction. In this day and time all you do is quickly grind to 30 then open a little box a bunch of times until you reach 99, all of which can be done in a day or two. It removed much of the challenge and sense of accomplishment.

As I said before, it is through adverse circumstances and challenging times that we really learn a lot about who we are, what we're capable of, what drives us and what we're willing to do to realize a goal. It's through the tough missions, hard to defeat monsters and challenges of making it to the top that we became strong, we became skilled and although some tend to disagree, having to depend on others is really what brought us together, taught us to treat others with respect and work together as a team. There needed to be better options and revissions to finding those other people in which to work with, but needing to depend on one another is really what made us such a strong community and what made it feel like more than just a game with other people on it, but something different than any other mmo.

People always complained about horizontal gear progression, but I always felt it was a good idea. Give people MANY options to be A+, not ONE option to be A++++++++ while everything else is left by the wayside. I log in now days and see EVERYONE wearing a bunch of red gear. I know in the days of the Optical Hat and Walahra Turban many people ran around with those on, but there were still so many other options used, especially in all the rest of their bodies. It was a lot more diverse. You could do X event, Y event or Z event and each reward would be different, but they would all be pretty close to equal of each other, save for a few very elite options- but those very elite options were not so far above other gear that it made those without them useless. I sign in now and since I do not have Skirmish weapons no one wants to use my DD at all, while back in the day if some one didn't have a relic weapon or adaberk, but had all the proper gear and merit they held just about the same level of respect if not more.

Merit parties added on to the whole idea of gathering experience points and was a sort of "proving grounds" to show what you had accomplished and could do once you got to the top. It's how so many end game linkshells met members and recruited. More often than not, it wasn't about the gear as much as it was the player. That guy who constantly AFK'd in his adaberk was laughed out of the party while the one who was consistently doing his job, using food and putting out high numbers in the normal hauberk was respected and invited to join many different events.

Let's also not forget how many missions gave you an incredible item, giving us further motivation to finish storylines and reap a reward from it in the end. The game had a lot more depth too it, it was a lot more complex in so many ways...

What's happening now is that people are getting bored and many don't know why. People have had issues trusting Square Enix sense the level cap was originally raised from 75 way back when. I remember spending so many years gathering so much gear, putting so much into my character and really enjoying what I had become only to be told all that hard work was for nothing and those items had been made useless by new ones added. "Why are these new items so much better than everything else? Who's going to want to do all these old events now?" it really concerned me, even then I saw much of this coming. With Abyssea people began to simply "Grind for Gear" and after spending so much time and hard work, much of that gear was replaced, as was that and so on and so forth over and over. People now feel much like they're on a treadmill chasing a carrot, constantly running in a strait line always with that one goal and so few other options.

So much of the game has been abandoned, forgotten and not cared for. People no longer stop to smell the roses, because there is no need to, no reason to and the paths we take lead no where near those roses.

I myself? I still sign on and put on my full set of Relic Armor, a set I once worked so hard to achieve. I go around and do little quests, craft, fish and try to experience Vana'Diel, a ghost of what it once was. I miss standing around with others in Selbina, chatting about the goblins in Valkurm dunes. I miss climbing Delkfutts Tower to get a Dark Knight friend his Artifact Helm, I miss being sent all over the world for many different reasons.

Many will yell and scream, disagree with me as they stare at the carrot they'll never really catch, basking in the "AMAZING STATS" the new gear has without stopping to realize what those stats were even once used for, the many things they helped us do.

I believe FFXI is a incredible world and I would like to personally thank the people who developed it, wrote the stories and made Vana'Diel so incredible. I went through many hardships in my real life and when I never felt like I had a home in the real world, I always felt truly at home in Vana'Diel. For that, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I always thought of FFXI like a tree. As time went on, it only grew more and became more majestic. If a branch died or was struck it only needed to be trimmed, pruned and allowed to grow further, flourishing on and on instead of simply being bulldozed to plant new trees, new shrubbery over and over again.

Take with it what you will, but ask almost anyone what was more rewarding, fulfilling, exciting and fun. Even with all the problems it once had, the old Vana'Diel, or the Vana'Diel of today.

Valkurm Dunes
Qufim Island
Yuhtunga
Yhoat
Garlaige Citadel
Wajaom Woodlands
Bhaflau Thickets
Caedarva Mire
Arrapago Reef

anyone miss these old party spots?

[nyheen]

Valkurm Dunes
Qufim Island
Yuhtunga
Yhoat
Garlaige Citadel
Wajaom Woodlands
Bhaflau Thickets
Caedarva Mire
Arrapago Reef

anyone miss these old party spots?
miss them lot:). but people dont even them now n days and the list is even bigger then that with the old pt spots. this was one of the main things i liked that got took away.>< just to join level sync xp pts and to actually do your job in a 6 man pt.

in todays pts no one doing any kinda team work, it just join gusgen mines 18 people, spam EP,DC with little to no help, it mostly just soloing while being in a pt.
same thing in abyssea lvl90+ DDs, etc mostly just soloing everything or even 1 shoting stuff now while people just following them.>.>

[FrankReynolds]

miss them lot:). but people dont even them now n days and the list is even bigger then that with the old pt spots. this was one of the main things i liked that got took away.>< just to join level sync xp pts and to actually do your job in a 6 man pt.

in todays pts no one doing any kinda team work, it just join gusgen mines 18 people, spam EP,DC with little to no help, it mostly just soloing while being in a pt.
same thing in abyssea lvl90+ DDs, etc mostly just soloing everything or even 1 shoting stuff now while people just following them.>.>

I had to pretty much solo or whack at walls to get THF,BLM,SMN and DNC to 75 because they were not popular party jobs and it was paaaiiinnnfullly slow. I miss the party spots, but I don't miss anything that went with them.

[Daemon]

No, the dev team is off in the other room having a snack. They cannot create enough content to sustain a vertical progression model even for casuals, let alone hardcores. They abandoned a much more sustainable model in favor of this treadmill of fail. I have not played seriously in a month and bet I can max out my jobs again in two nights after work.

Adoulin is bad design blended with terrible ideas and dusted with a pinch of "who really cares what the players want?"

In my opinion people want the world to be more than what it already is. We are playing a game that is 11 years old. Most people have already past almost everything in it.

Playerbase is at a point where everyone has enough power to speed past new content faster than it can be put out.

You do things for people and when they lose interest in what you do for them no matter how hard you try the interest cannot be given back without some miracle and that's what I see people are expecting.

A miracle.

But at this point the ladder can only go so high. Is it worth it?

[kylani]

Take with it what you will, but ask almost anyone what was more rewarding, fulfilling, exciting and fun. Even with all the problems it once had, the old Vana'Diel, or the Vana'Diel of today.

I love your post. I've left and come back several times. I always left when I got focused/frustrated with things and forgot to just enjoy the game. When I come back, I'm always amazed at how much there is to do and how much fun the story and content are. It seems no matter how much I love it, I seem to get drawn in to the hurry and level syndrome, that starts making it feel like a job vs. a game. I've tried to avoid it this time, and still feel that pull to take shortcuts or 'grind thru the pain' vs. enjoying whatever I'm doing.

I feel for the dev team. There is such a wide range of player base, it's got to be hard, if not impossible to keep long time players satisfied and draw in new players without the new players feeling like they're facing insurmountable odds. Things that are trivial for much of the player base are painful for newer folks, and it becomes harder as there are less newer folks. Many of the storylines require a group or being over leveled to complete.

I understand why many hated COP even though I agree it was a good thing to remove the level cap, I thought the level cap was an good idea. There's nothing like doing the content with a group at the level it was meant to be done. Unfortunately, the coordination to do it was a pain to much of the player base, myself included. I hope those who completed it as it was meant to be done remember those battles and the effort as fondly as I do even if they were often incredibly frustrating. Unless a new player is fortunate enough to join with friends, they're likely to have to wait till they're capped and then solo or maybe duo/trio thru it if they're lucky.

When people used to level multiple jobs the old fashioned way, it helped new players, but now that many take the fast path, new players don't have vets re-leveling jobs to group with or learn from as much. If they manage to get to endgame, they need help in many cases learning the intricacies of their job or of a certain type of tactic, and some folks aren't very patient or willing to take some time to explain. Fortunately, there are some (hopefully many) who still enjoy the fun of the game and are patient and understanding. Those people make the game better for all they play with.

I love this game and want it to keep going forever, but I can't think of a good plan for the game that encompasses everyone. People are so different. I think the devs are trying. They may fumble along the way, but at least they did put Adoulin out. I honestly thought there would never be another full expansion for the game. It seems like they were trying to do something different, and I like to think they were trying to help newer players catch up a bit with seasoned players and just jumped the shark a bit. I thought Abyssea was horrible at the time, but now I actually enjoy it quite a bit, so who knows how this will go down the road.

I just hope many keep playing 11 and SE keeps developing for it because while I can enjoy other games for a time, there is no other game as rich and involving as FFXI to me.

[Rustic]

anyone miss these old party spots?

I don't miss the old grind. I do think that Abyssea kicked the exp system squarely (ha!) in the junk, rendering GoV/FoV nearly meaningless post-30.

What's kinda amazing is that Adoulin, I stab an Easy Prey to death in Morimar? I'm racking up 600+ limit points. If they'd given us non-KI related stuff for plasm, you'd likely see players sitting out there in parties slapping butterflies around.

Put some kind of non-exp-but-advancement system wrapped around this and you might actually see the rebirth of the 6-man group again.

[Umichi]

I love your post. I've left and come back several times. I always left when I got focused/frustrated with things and forgot to just enjoy the game. When I come back, I'm always amazed at how much there is to do and how much fun the story and content are. It seems no matter how much I love it, I seem to get drawn in to the hurry and level syndrome, that starts making it feel like a job vs. a game. I've tried to avoid it this time, and still feel that pull to take shortcuts or 'grind thru the pain' vs. enjoying whatever I'm doing.

I feel for the dev team. There is such a wide range of player base, it's got to be hard, if not impossible to keep long time players satisfied and draw in new players without the new players feeling like they're facing insurmountable odds. Things that are trivial for much of the player base are painful for newer folks, and it becomes harder as there are less newer folks. Many of the storylines require a group or being over leveled to complete.

I understand why many hated COP even though I agree it was a good thing to remove the level cap, I thought the level cap was an good idea. There's nothing like doing the content with a group at the level it was meant to be done. Unfortunately, the coordination to do it was a pain to much of the player base, myself included. I hope those who completed it as it was meant to be done remember those battles and the effort as fondly as I do even if they were often incredibly frustrating. Unless a new player is fortunate enough to join with friends, they're likely to have to wait till they're capped and then solo or maybe duo/trio thru it if they're lucky.

When people used to level multiple jobs the old fashioned way, it helped new players, but now that many take the fast path, new players don't have vets re-leveling jobs to group with or learn from as much. If they manage to get to endgame, they need help in many cases learning the intricacies of their job or of a certain type of tactic, and some folks aren't very patient or willing to take some time to explain. Fortunately, there are some (hopefully many) who still enjoy the fun of the game and are patient and understanding. Those people make the game better for all they play with.

I love this game and want it to keep going forever, but I can't think of a good plan for the game that encompasses everyone. People are so different. I think the devs are trying. They may fumble along the way, but at least they did put Adoulin out. I honestly thought there would never be another full expansion for the game. It seems like they were trying to do something different, and I like to think they were trying to help newer players catch up a bit with seasoned players and just jumped the shark a bit. I thought Abyssea was horrible at the time, but now I actually enjoy it quite a bit, so who knows how this will go down the road.

I just hope many keep playing 11 and SE keeps developing for it because while I can enjoy other games for a time, there is no other game as rich and involving as FFXI to me.

The way I see it is we are legends in vanadiel history..... we've rescued the world time and again we've pushed past our physical limits time and again over a span of 11 years... new players have it easy.. with some commen sense you can achieve great things just by playing the game... Armed with knowledge via the internet... you become pretty much invincible... but using that knowledge comes at a price because it's all built off of the community not SE

I have complaints but I don't see XI declining... more like legends are retiring and only the adventurers of this time are existent while newer generations are being continuously planted... however.. they are about 11 years behind on their training..... so don't really expect to see them in Audolin anytime soon...unless a a seasoned adventurer or a linkshell that's willing to help picks them up.

I play this game to play it as a game! It is fun and I to sometimes feel like the background stuff (leveling and going out and doing stuff to get gear over and over) sometimes makes me lose my path but I will preserver!

[Spectreman]

Shouting in jeuno for days for a single pt invite?

Camping HNMs for so many hours to be beaten by the LS with the best bot claim?

Endless frustrating Dynamis runs where you would return empty handed 90% of time because drops for certain jobs were abyssmal?

Events like Salvage where only a few would even see what was in there because it was "too hardcore" for scrubs to participate?

Years of sidegrades that more and more required us to blink each second exchanging gear, carrying almost full inventory with swaps for 2-3% of dmg improvement?



Yea right, you guys can all go to FF14. The game changed for the better. If you are rushing yourself through endgame content and find yourself bored after a month then go play another game called real life.

All hardcore freaks can't understand that there is life outside this game. Go experience that and enjoy FFXI in smaller doses. You will be amazed how awesome this game is instead of cursing how everything is easy when you got the strongest gear of the game in a month.


Though i have to agree that things like exp parties in valkrum/qufim/kazham/citadel/cn/altepa was fun and still would be today if they improved GoV exp rewards up to abyssea level.

[Llama]

Put some kind of non-exp-but-advancement system wrapped around this and you might actually see the rebirth of the 6-man group again.

I myself as well as others have mentioned this before. I think they should make all events either solo, party, or alliance, and have the same rewards, but obviously scaled difficulty/ drop rate so people don't spam solo speed runs., and make this game even more single player.

[Umichi]

Shouting in jeuno for days for a single pt invite?

Camping HNMs for so many hours to be beaten by the LS with the best bot claim?

Endless frustrating Dynamis runs where you would return empty handed 90% of time because drops for certain jobs were abyssmal?

Events like Salvage where only a few would even see what was in there because it was "too hardcore" for scrubs to participate?

Years of sidegrades that more and more required us to blink each second exchanging gear, carrying almost full inventory with swaps for 2-3% of dmg improvement?



Yea right, you guys can all go to FF14. The game changed for the better. If you are rushing yourself through endgame content and find yourself bored after a month then go play another game called real life.

All hardcore freaks can't understand that there is life outside this game. Go experience that and enjoy FFXI in smaller doses. You will be amazed how awesome this game is instead of cursing how everything is easy when you got the strongest gear of the game in a month.


Though i have to agree that things like exp parties in valkrum/qufim/kazham/citadel/cn/altepa was fun and still would be today if they improved GoV exp rewards up to abyssea level.

I believe they were referring to how much more competant the playerbase was back in the day vs now

[Afania]

Yea right, you guys can all go to FF14. The game changed for the better. If you are rushing yourself through endgame content and find yourself bored after a month then go play another game called real life.

All hardcore freaks can't understand that there is life outside this game. Go experience that and enjoy FFXI in smaller doses. You will be amazed how awesome this game is instead of cursing how everything is easy when you got the strongest gear of the game in a month.

That's not even half the issue this game is facing. This game requires connection/"buy-in" to keep players around, playing on and off simply doesn't work, and it's irrelevant to whether you have a life or not. It's more of a social game than MMORPG. Once your close friend got bored and quit, you'd got bored and quit too due to lack of ppl to play with, making it harder to do everything else. "Have something to do" is more than trying to please the hardcore, but it's also a good incentive to keep players/friends/linkshell together.

And stop playing real life card. Everyone has a life, including myself. But I only have one life, and I'd like to experience something different/more exciting than real life. My life is nothing more than wake up work wake up work, I like my "second life" after I got home, that give me a chance to meet players I never have chance to meet irl, or experience a world that I never get a chance to irl. It's my money and my time, I don't need anyone giving me lecture "go experience real life" when I have enough of it.

You don't even need to be close to hardcore to finish current game content 100 times. I've been selling stacks and stacks of airlixir +1s since it cost 1.2M a stack back in July. All the plasm add up together I can have R15 for every slot if I want to, plus capped delve boss gears. Do you think I play 8hrs a day? For past 1 month I play 5hr a week avg, and I work 9~12hr a day, sometimes even Weekend. I highly doubt you have more "real life" than me. I'm no where close to hardcore, not even close to avg player playtime, and I already finish delve content for month.

I don't mind 2%~3% of improvement, I don't mind doing an event and get nothing 9 out of 10 runs as long as I'm playing with friends and after 9 runs I got something cool. But I'm not very happy to log on to XI and see my LS all turn into ghost town and friendlist empty, due to everyone quitting after they're done with delve.

[Daemon]

Shouting in jeuno for days for a single pt invite?

Camping HNMs for so many hours to be beaten by the LS with the best bot claim?

Endless frustrating Dynamis runs where you would return empty handed 90% of time because drops for certain jobs were abyssmal?

Events like Salvage where only a few would even see what was in there because it was "too hardcore" for scrubs to participate?

Years of sidegrades that more and more required us to blink each second exchanging gear, carrying almost full inventory with swaps for 2-3% of dmg improvement?



Yea right, you guys can all go to FF14. The game changed for the better. If you are rushing yourself through endgame content and find yourself bored after a month then go play another game called real life.

All hardcore freaks can't understand that there is life outside this game. Go experience that and enjoy FFXI in smaller doses. You will be amazed how awesome this game is instead of cursing how everything is easy when you got the strongest gear of the game in a month.


Though i have to agree that things like exp parties in valkrum/qufim/kazham/citadel/cn/altepa was fun and still would be today if they improved GoV exp rewards up to abyssea level.

Pretty much everything I said in all of my replies sum up to this in 1 post lol.

[scaevola]

Worth noting that Monstrosity is basically old-school partying if you took a 6-man party and rolled it into one character.

(it's seriously a blast and I look forward to wiping the floor with the lot of you in November~)

[nyheen]

There have been some improvements, notably level synch which allowed you keep xping when your tank dc'd or whatever. And able to lowman / solo your relic armors / weapons in Dyna. Relic+2 was also cool. Aby was fun and had cool mobs, but the allowing people to xp in groups with a 69-lvl gap between players was a disaster, and inevitably led to what we have now ; WAR99s would have never used a weapon more than a few times in the lvl 1-30 range, and used forbidden keys instead for 30-99. Or a blm killing 20 dolls at a time while everyone else just jogs to the Dom ops guy and back again for hours.
Its true there have been improvements and some disastrous errors / failures in the last 4 years. The importance of forums is you can discuss which of the developer decisions were good and which were terrible.
Nowadays you don't need to be polite in xp parties, or make new friends in xp parties, those things were what made FFxi a success to begin with, you had to play your job well and be a nice person in parties or you wouldn't get invited again. Nowadays you can log in and lvl 30-99 without saying a single word to anyone, and the only person who talks to you in 69 levels is a randomly-generated RMT /tell every so often. I made friends in FFxi xp parties in 2004, we became friends in real life and are still best friends. We connected because we were spending hours xping or meriting, really slowly, and playing at our best game-skills, noting that the other person was doing really good at their job, we admired them and became friends. That doesnt exist anymore, you can go Aby dolls and go afk or key or just play your job terribly, makes no difference, nobody is going to notice you or connect with you anyway. Remember how when you got a pt invite in the old game, it was your chance to shine, for a few hours you could play your job at your highest ability, make new friends, and you would get invited again because you were proficient and friendly. That stuff is just history now.
this is what most people seems to forget about. now it just a lost thing in the past but iam still happy i got the chance to do all of them things

[FrankReynolds]

You can talk to people in abyssea parties too. The conversation is often better. I see people joking and having fun now instead of bitching about who didn't cure or how much the last paladin sucked. I see people asking questions about limit break quests and getting responses from 5-10 people instead of being yelled at to pull faster. I see people talking about politics instead of bitching about the other party out pulling us.

Try talking to the guy who is keying or gimping it up on pup instead of judging him. You are the reason he doesn't talk and doesn't care. Honestly. People probably didn't admire your skill or talk to you because they thought you were great. They talked to you because you were stuck in the middle of nowhere together. Take off your old school 2004 linkshell next time you exp. and talk to the other people. Don't be that guy who sits on his blue tooth talking on the phone everywhere he goes and ignoring people right in front of him out in public because he thinks he is better than them. That guy is a douche.

[FrankReynolds]

I'm not judging keyers. I feel SORRY for them. They are not playing a videogame. They are not fighting mobs, or being a healer, or a puller. They are clicking a key-trade-macro on endless boxes for days on end. And missing out on battle, party dynamics, travelling to new zones as you level up, fighting mobs in cool areas like aydeewa and MZ trolls camp, with trolls that look cool, or CM imps which also are cool.
The keyperson is just watching the same 15 boring dolls getting oneshotted by delve meatsocks, over and over, while running to a dom ops npc and selecting the same page over and over, and opening the same boxes over and over, for SIXTY NINE LEVELS. I pity them. They are missing out on the whole game. I pity you too coz you know all this but just want to start ****.

I don't want to start *&(^&*. I want people to stop perpetuating this BS stereotype that people who level jobs in abyssea are missing out on something.

The people who already had jobs leveled didn't miss out on any of that. In fact, a large portion of them were quite sick of it.

New people were going to completely miss out on all those things you named anyways because most older players already had a few jobs leveled and had no interest in going back to level more. The pool of people with whom new people could party with was almost nonexistent.

If they wanted people to experience fighting different stuff in different zones, all they had to do was make a quest that required it. Personally, I think Trial of the magians would be a good name. what do you think?

Everything else is covered by end game events.

I vastly prefer being able to choose from a pool of bards, whms, wars, monks etc. who may or may not suck at the job to just standing around waiting for the 3 on the server to log in.

You want to be social and bring the social aspect back like partying had? Stop complaining about how people suck now because they leveled in abyssea and play with them. It's exactly the same as back in the old days, only now instead of learning stuff at level 50 they are learning it at 99. They aren't learning jobs any faster or slower. They are just learning at a different point in the game.

The old model only worked when new people were joining. They aren't joining anymore.

[Vold]

Eorzea welcomes you all.

You know it's funny that anyone says this. I have to admit, ever since FFXIV's release I have been playing it pretty much full time, only logging into FFXI to bazaar until my connection resets and boots me offline because my internet for the past two years has been a living hell. I'm not done in FFXI, not by a long shot, but the group I was doing things with have suddenly disappeared so I decided to take a break myself.

The funny thing here is, despite all of FFXIV's shine, it's fresh change of pace(to me, I hear it's practically a wow clone on gameplay but I can't speak to that)and interesting main storyline with total fake but babes nonetheless babes everywhere you look, even after nearly just one month of playing I find myself.. it's hard to describe. I'm not really bored, it's more like... tired of the style. I'm tired of spamming the same exact things for millions of experience points that takes all of 2 to 5 minutes to complete. And I know it will only get worse at "end game" when I am spamming the same things over and over to farm points/tokens/tomes/whatever they are called to purchase my ultimate gear or whatever it is. It's basically delve, is what it is on the boredom factor and people are doing everything they can to make it less of a chore.

My point is, when I'm in FFXIV everyday, chasing after my goals, I'm not thinking about FFXIV or even said total hot virtual babes that don't exist but are only appealing because they could never exist in the real world, I'm thinking about what I want to do in FFXI. It's sad, really. That even now I want to play FFXI, but it's hard to do when SE obviously does not want to continue to develop FFXI. They put a group of poor souls behind it that probably don't want to work on it either, but for the sake of a paycheck they will. I know it's a terrible pain in the ass to work on one project for just 5 years. Oh God forbid someone has to work on a MMO for 10 years. But come on, guys. Welcome to life. Welcome to reality. I've been working my same job for 15 years. I, like most people, will work our entire lives in the same line of work. Probably the same exact job. And game devs whine(not speaking to SE specifically and I don't actually ever recall them openly whining ever) that they work on the same game for just a few years, I need a change, whine whine whine.

I guess I'm just asking for them to throw an entire fresh crew onto FFXI if they have to to get things done, even if they're all newbies. I would prefer someone my age designing my games, not a grandpa. I want someone who understands my generation. That's not my grandpa. Though I give credit to Tanaka for designing FFXI, but he was obviously out of touch with the generation of gamers playing his games. And even now with someone who is not my grandpa producing FFXI, it just seems like said producer Akihiko Matsui is never going to catch a fair break because he inherited a game that was already on life support after many decisions that did not sway in it's favor. I think he's done a lot of good already, but it's hard for him to shine when his crew is maybe 20 people strong. It's hard to tell because SE never dares tell us after they admitted the force behind FFXIV. He has earned a couple black marks already but whatever. That's a fact of life for game dev producers.

So yeah. I find it funny that in a matter of months I believe FFXIV is going to see a major exodus of players, not because it's a bad game, but because 1)it's more of the same for many people, and 2)because people grow bored because there's no real challenge, danger(aggroing mobs turn back and run to their spawn point after alittle while of chasing you) or competition for anything. Everything is handed to them on a silver platter while leveling up which takes a drastic turn at lv50. It's heavily designed to be a casual solo game that does everything to not piss you off and quit but while doing so it is boring you into quiting. I think that will impact it heavily in the coming months, and soon instead of welcome to eorzea comments, it's going to be 'goodbye eorzea, perhaps FFXVII Online won't be so fricking easy and boring.'

I'm not giving up on 14 just yet, I'm just saying it's human nature to dump the game before it's first expansion even comes out. The style worked in WoW because WoW was the first. No one is ever going to duplicate WoW because at this point everyone has had enough of WoW. If they want WoW, they will stay at WoW. And with that said, FFXIV is never going to be an accepted successor to FFXI. FFXIV is all about short term, FFXI is all about long term. There's a reason FFXI is still going today and SE did not take that reason to heart whatsoever. They went for the subscribers. They gave in too much to feedback by solo players from WoW, and didn't even bother giving group players a exp bonus for grouping up and killing random monsters. The monsters are merely there to drop crafting materials and to be used for 2-5 minute quests. My warrior can SOLO MONSTERS 5 FRICKING LEVELS ABOVE HIM. I think they may regret that in the long run, and FFXI will benefit when it gets back subscribers from FFXIV.

[Xantavia]

If they wanted people to experience fighting different stuff in different zones, all they had to do was make a quest that required it. Personally, I think Trial of the magians would be a good name. what do you think?
Would be a great idea, except SE decided to kill this with their ilvl deal.

[Demon6324236]

FFXIV is never going to be an accepted successor to FFXI. FFXIV is all about short term, FFXI is all about long term. There's a reason FFXI is still going today and SE did not take that reason to heart whatsoever.In all honesty, you speak of the FFXI of the past, now, its not that way. The last of the long term goals which existed were RMEs, they were killed, now, they exist still, but they are never going to be superb from what we know, they are planed to be on par with other weapons, which is only more reason why people will not make them. In the end, I think long term goals for FFXI are being left behind as well, FFXIV may not be a successor to old FFXI, but it probably is to the current game, and maybe that's why they changed this game in the first place, to make them more relatable. But either way, I hope they find a way to make FFXIV work out well, from what I hear its great, but I know little about it since I cant play it, and would hate to get excited over something out of my reach.

[nyheen]

Trial of the magians starts at level 75. So that would be a pretty stupid way to level up from say level 20, wouldnt it. Plus magians are soloable, and are for weapon-building for lvl 75+ people. They are not XP parties which is what I was talking about, although I've noticed you do wriggle around a lot and grasp at any straw available. Please try harder.



No, again you are grasping at straws. I wasn't talking about people sucking, I was talking about how the game has changed.

With the addition of Level-synch ( a great idea) and xping in the glamorous old areas, far easier to keep an xp party going for ages. We never had any problem inviting people with level synch, despite your false and absurd claim ;"The pool of people with whom new people could party with was almost nonexistent". Thats nonsense. The reason people dont do old areas XP anymore, is that they can key in dolls for 69 levels instead. Its the 'path of least resistance'. Its the lazy option, so people will most times take the easiest option, but miss out on the actual game in the process. That is SE's biggest FFxi mistake of all time, not the players mistake. Most people will take the easy option if it is laid out for them, even if it deprives them of 99% of the fun xp content in the process. SE should not have allowed 69-lvl gaps in Aby xp parties. We had 2-3 lvl gaps in old xp parties, which we were able to augment with level synch. That prevented AFK leeching, and no-skills 99s running around wondering what 'provoke' does.


LOL. Thats funny. Lets go farm some capes in Marjami. Or some gear with built-in obsolescence, that gets outdated next week. Pebbles anyone?


In 2009 we had all the old areas xp camps still busy, and fun, and we had campaign battles where you could fight enemy generals on hilltops with thunderstorms in the sky above and crumbling castles around you, and waves of enemy soldiers storming up the hill, and NPC Heroes talking in /chatmode as they helped you pwn the enemies. Our xp options at level 10-60, we could form a legit party and learn our jobs and skill up same time, and see interesting places in vanadiel as we did so. And have some fun memories, and make friends. Then at like 60+ we could stay in the Toau xp areas or go to campaign. Both options had atmospheric scenery, and exciting mobs.

I have HAPPY MEMORIES from xp parties 2004-2010. I don't have ANY happy memories of dom ops. And while you are quick to point the finger at me and say its because im a horrible person so ppl in dom ops will hate me, I'm the same person I was in the xp parties those last ten years where I got friend invites, and made friends with ppl who are still friends after 10 years, and some of those Vanadiel friends became friends IRL. I havent changed, or turned into an ogre, but FFxi has.
A lot of people enjoyed travelling to the rock in W.Altepa, for beetles, with the sandstorms and the danger lol. And I loved troll parties at 74. Up on the battlements, fighting trolls! Aydeewa and MZ crawler parties, diremite parties, imp parties, torama parties in the labyrinth etc.etc. Excitement and variety, and you bonded with people because a lot of the time it was life/death battles where you survived by being a competent player.

What happy memories are you gonna tell ppl about your 69 lvls of sandsweepers? ;
"Oh, I remember that one time, I was putting a key into a lock, and a brown doll was getting oneshotted <over there>, then I ran to the Dom Ops NPC again (and he introduced himself to me again for the 1000000th time with the same 'getting to know me' speech, which I really had SO MUCH FUN spamming through his introduction-speech AGAIN) and I selected the same dolls page again (even though I wouldn't actually fight any of the dolls or cure the people who were fighting the dolls, and who dont need curing anyway coz the mobs die in 2 hits and atmas keep you on 90%+ hp the whole time.) Great times, wish you could have been there with me! Go go gaming!"
:p

165% agree. now quick marry me! put the ring on now!!

[Arcon]

I have HAPPY MEMORIES from xp parties 2004-2010.

Your life must be awful. I'm so sorry.

[Afania]

Your life must be awful. I'm so sorry.

After spamming AoE in boring FATE in XIV for weeks I miss xp party 2004~2010 so much.

[FrankReynolds]

Would be a great idea, except SE decided to kill this with their ilvl deal.

We can both agree on that. iLevel is absolute crap.


Trial of the magians starts at level 75. So that would be a pretty stupid way to level up from say level 20, wouldnt it. Plus magians are soloable, and are for weapon-building for lvl 75+ people. They are not XP parties which is what I was talking about, although I've noticed you do wriggle around a lot and grasp at any straw available. Please try harder.

Not wriggling. You complained about people missing out on seeing different zones. TOA made/makes people try a far larger number of zones and different monsters than exp parties did, not just crab crab crab crab. And, While they are soloable, they are a lot easier if you team up. End game is almost all group stuff and again, if you aren't talking to people in exp parties, it's because you aren't talking to people in exp parties.


No, again you are grasping at straws. I wasn't talking about people sucking, I was talking about how the game has changed.

So when you said:


...playing at our best game-skills, noting that the other person was doing really good at their job, we admired them and became friends. That doesnt exist anymore...

What exactly did you mean? That everyone is just too damn good at the game to team up now? no, I know what you meant...

Especially since your reply says this:


SE should not have allowed 69-lvl gaps in Aby xp parties. We had 2-3 lvl gaps in old xp parties, which we were able to augment with level synch. That prevented AFK leeching, and no-skills 99s running around wondering what 'provoke' does.


With the addition of Level-synch ( a great idea) and xping in the glamorous old areas, far easier to keep an xp party going for ages. We never had any problem inviting people with level synch, despite your false and absurd claim ;"The pool of people with whom new people could party with was almost nonexistent". Thats nonsense.

No it isn't. Level sync wasn't fixing the problem. Most people stopped after leveling a few jobs and finding people to do it was hard unless you wanted to sync to 37 and spam birds in ronafure for 38 levels (which was even crappier than keying IMO) because at most levels, the camps / exp sucked.


The reason people dont do old areas XP anymore, is that they can key in dolls for 69 levels instead. Its the 'path of least resistance'. Its the lazy option, so people will most times take the easiest option, but miss out on the actual game in the process. That is SE's biggest FFxi mistake of all time, not the players mistake. Most people will take the easy option if it is laid out for them, even if it deprives them of 99% of the fun xp content in the process.

Is it really that hard to imagine that for most people, that was not fun at all? It really hasn't occurred to you that most people would have already had every job leveled to 99 by the time abyssea came out if they had enjoyed doing so? It was a boring tedious grind and a lot of people hated it. You may be the perfect image of positivity, sitting there happily chatting while smacking crabs and beetles for 2k exp/hr, but the other people were likely staring at their screens tired and annoyed wishing they didn't have to do this for months on end just so they could play <job> with their friends in <event>.


SE should not have allowed 69-lvl gaps in Aby xp parties. We had 2-3 lvl gaps in old xp parties, which we were able to augment with level synch. That prevented AFK leeching, and no-skills 99s running around wondering what 'provoke' does.

What's the difference? Whether you get in a level 30 party and the guy doesn't know what provoke does, or you get in a level 99 group and the guy doesn't know what provoke does... You still got stuck with the guy who doesn't know what provoke does. You can't go back in time and keep his parents from ever meeting Marty McFly. No delorean. No Doc Brown. The guy is here and he wants to party with you.



LOL. Thats funny. Lets go farm some capes in Marjami. Or some gear with built-in obsolescence, that gets outdated next week. Pebbles anyone?

I'm sure you had a point. What is it?


In 2009 we had all the old areas xp camps still busy...

Wrong


and fun

Wrong

[/quote]and we had campaign battles where you could fight enemy generals on hilltops with thunderstorms in the sky above and crumbling castles around you, and waves of enemy soldiers storming up the hill, and NPC Heroes talking in /chatmode as they helped you pwn the enemies.[/quote]

They removed campaign from the game? Nowai! When?!?!

PS. this is solo stuff. What has it got to do with becoming awesome and making friends in a party (besides not doing that)?


Our xp options at level 10-60, we could form a legit party and learn our jobs and skill up same time, and see interesting places in vanadiel as we did so.

You see all those places later anyways. Forming a legit party is overrated. Why do you think people don't do it any more? It's because they would rather be 99 than party (for a million different reasons).


And have some fun memories, and make friends.

You choose not to do that anymore. The game and the people still exist.


Then at like 60+ we could stay in the Toau xp areas

Could?


or go to campaign. Both options had atmospheric scenery, and exciting mobs.

They still do?

What are you saying? Does everything in the game turn into wire frame animation at level 99 for you? You should try re-installing. It sounds like your game is messed up. Mine still shows the same zones / scenery.


I have HAPPY MEMORIES from xp parties 2004-2010.

The crux of your entire argument. Those are your memories. You can't make everyone else have them.


I don't have ANY happy memories of dom ops.

I do.


And while you are quick to point the finger at me and say its because im a horrible person so ppl in dom ops will hate me, I'm the same person I was in the xp parties those last ten years where I got friend invites, and made friends with ppl who are still friends after 10 years, and some of those Vanadiel friends became friends IRL. I havent changed, or turned into an ogre, but FFxi has.

No, it's you. They didn't cancel every account and get 300k+ new people to join when they released dominion ops. It was all the same folks.


A lot of people enjoyed travelling to the rock in W.Altepa, for beetles, with the sandstorms and the danger lol.

Not many apparently.


And I loved troll parties at 74. Up on the battlements, fighting trolls!

There is a joke here somewhere...


Aydeewa and MZ crawler parties, diremite parties, imp parties, torama parties in the labyrinth etc.etc. Excitement and variety, and you bonded with people because a lot of the time it was life/death battles where you survived by being a competent player.

Your memories. Not everyone else.


What happy memories are you gonna tell ppl about your 69 lvls of sandsweepers? ;
"Oh, I remember that one time, I was putting a key into a lock, and a brown doll was getting oneshotted <over there>, then I ran to the Dom Ops NPC again (and he introduced himself to me again for the 1000000th time with the same 'getting to know me' speech, which I really had SO MUCH FUN spamming through his introduction-speech AGAIN) and I selected the same dolls page again (even though I wouldn't actually fight any of the dolls or cure the people who were fighting the dolls, and who dont need curing anyway coz the mobs die in 2 hits and atmas keep you on 90%+ hp the whole time.) Great times, wish you could have been there with me! Go go gaming!"
:p

Oh man!!! You mean all these good times I've had over the years with my LS are meaningless because we weren't in exp parties when they happened? Whew! This really changes my perspective on life and friendship. Mind Blown.


http://i.imgur.com/PN9R5x7.gif

[detlef]

He made good points though. I hated leveling, and I also certainly had no issues picking up jobs at 99 without XPing in the manner you advocate.

[Daemon]

I've already said what I think and why. Now you are back to wearing your Forum Troll hat and just chopping random words out of my block of text and trying to pry some leverage out of things, while totally missing the point I was making. If you had made any actual valid points in that huge tsunami of bile you just spewed forth, I would endevour to refute those points & defend my original statements yet again. But since you haven't actually made any points, just cherrypicked a few words and phrases and bashed them with your troll club, theres no point talking to you any more. Go back to skulking under your bridge.

goodbye /block

Lol seems like you're the next target :( welcome to my world =p

As for the topic in question lemme do what everyone says I'm best at, derail it. Oh wait... The OP is me...

Final fantasy XI is declining because some people in this community hate the fact that other people have opinions too and when you say something others don't like they feel the need to gang up on you and quote you after every sentence forcing their point of view as absolute only to disrespect the person they target as if their opinions don't matter and when you debate long enough people decide you should have your own thread titled to your name so they can destroy you and make you look like you are the biggest problem on these forums and its time to get rid of you because you refuse to give in and side with them.

Right Stompa? I think I summed it up pretty well.

Oh wait I forgot. When you defend the DEV TEAM and community reps long enough, its a done deal. You are targeted for annihilation.

[Slaxx]

How's it feel up there on that cross?

The development team and community reps are adults they don't need you to defend them, all day, every day.

And this is my biggest pet peeve: All opinions are not equally valid. This line of bullshit is so harmful it's ricockulous. Some opinions are flat out wrong, but because it's an opinion those who hold it feel that they are unasalable and they refuse to look at the actual facts that would completely invalidate that opinion. 500 years after Magellan (? 20+ years since I took a world history class and I don't care enough to look and make sure I have the right 16th century explorer) circumnavigated the globe and there are still people out there with the opinion that the Earth is flat. Opinions can be wrong.

And stop looking for other people to share your martyrdom, they are also adults. You brought this on yourself in every imaginable way and you control how it will end (hint: it could all be over if you would just stop coming to these forums, or at least stop posting).

Personally I'm going to miss you. You have provided me with hours of entertainment. For the good of the community, however... it's probably better that you stop spreading misinformation everywhere you go here.

PS. I guess maybe this should have gone in what you interpret as the "Hate Everything Daemon" thread (started by someone who was once your biggest supporter (Oh, the irony)) but hey, I don't spend all day on these forums responding to every post you make. This one just caught my eye.

[Slaxx]

I've already said what I think and why. Now you are back to wearing your Forum Troll hat and just chopping random words out of my block of text and trying to pry some leverage out of things, while totally missing the point I was making. If you had made any actual valid points in that huge tsunami of bile you just spewed forth, I would endevour to refute those points & defend my original statements yet again. But since you haven't actually made any points, just cherrypicked a few words and phrases and bashed them with your troll club, theres no point talking to you any more. Go back to skulking under your bridge.

goodbye /block

Just because you don't agree with the points he made doesn't mean he's trolling you. If he hadn't quoted you so extensively you would've accused him of quote mining and taking what you said out of context. It's really a "no win" situation.

I don't agree with everything Frank said but he at least had the decency to respond point by point with his point of view. You responded to him with the ultimate refuge of a weak argument, "You're a troll!"

[FrankReynolds]

I actually click "Like" on a lot of stuff that the both of you post. This isn't facebook though (thankfully) so it doesn't tell you all the times I do that. I generally don't comment on things I agree with because it's already been said. I'm willing to bet that that is what most people do. If they had a dislike button, I'm willing to bet that a lot of people would rather just use that than engage in debate with you guys, but there isn't, so this is what you get. A couple "like"s when you say something good and a million miles of crap when you say something dumb.

I read these forums, I post about what I think needs to be changed and I refute the stupidity. I support the devs by not cancelling my account. Feel free to test me by creating 1,000 dummy accounts and posting the same trash. I promise I will say the same things regardless of the poster.

[Daemon]

How's it feel up there on that cross?

Misinformation? What I fail to understand is why am I the only person being pointed out as "Derailing others thread" when clearly several other people do it too.

I guess its because I post more than everyone else on these forums.

I noticed people like you more when you trash talk someone else, leave instant one liners as if you're leaving your 2 cents on the table.


Yea get off your cross.

Recycled one liners others used to put me down. Highly original here.

This is why FFXI is declining. People troll these forums and feed off each other's negativity using each other's one line "put me down" sentences to earn more "likes."

Followed by wall of texts flooding ones response after pointing out the truth.

[Demon6324236]

My thread is gone not even a full day and rather than leaving things be, you come in and reply to posts which could lead to an argument once again... My point apparently was not made.

[Omegablue]

Mithra pictures?


http://0.tqn.com/d/ancienthistory/1/0/8/J/Mithras_th.jpg

Mithra pictures

[Aemora]

FFXI is dying because it's old.

It's been more prominent lately because FFXIV is new.

No other reason.

[Arcon]

No other reason.

Wrong. I didn't leave because it was old, I left because the problems finally surpassed its entertainment value, and it's the same for many others. Problems don't stem from age, they stem from bad decisions, which SE has a demonstrably unlimited supply of. I don't want something new, I want something good. Up until a few years ago, FFXI was that good. It was a local optimum in the sea of MMORPGs. Other MMORPGs did not overtake it since then, it actually fell back. The game we have now is worse than the one we had years ago. And that is not time's fault, it's SE's.

[Daemon]

My thread is gone not even a full day and rather than leaving things be, you come in and reply to posts which could lead to an argument once again... My point apparently was not made.

And this is my point I was waiting to prove. You are too busy responding after all of my posts. As if I'm the only problem. I didn't derail my own thread first.

You still ignored the fact that I stayed on topic.

Did I insult anyone? Did I derail the topic before you responded? Did I call anyone names? Read the response again because this is exactly why people are telling you your reaction and example is of a person who has some sort of grudge.

Why do you feel the need to make points against people?

Unless you're trying to prove something about a person which defeats the purpose of coming to these forums.

Which is to leave feedback.

I came to help others, not go against anyone.

There is a big difference between attacking someone intentionally and defending after someone.

I don't start off my responses calling people names insulting them.

If you are going to tell anyone to stop doing something then tell it to the people who started the argument. Or the ones who are igniting the problem.

I still don't understand how you don't see this.

[Rustic]

The old model only worked when new people were joining. They aren't joining anymore.

Funny you should mention that- we just had two newbies show up on our linkshell.

What's hurting things is that because we don't have the old model, new players are isolated, alone, and drop the game. It's kinda scary how many folks I've "salvaged" out of starting areas simply by happening by when they're in the middle of full-on "This is a ghost town, WTF" rants or just randomly chugging along in starting areas.

I thoroughly blame Abyssea having a level 30 limit for this. The "go to Gusgen and then leech" philosophy caused a critical disconnect at the bottom. It honestly should be a 71+ level area -even GoV/FoV is more social than many Abyssea experiences, and social time is what bound FFXI together.

[Rustic]

Your life must be awful. I'm so sorry.

I have some nightmare fuel memories from exp PT's, but that doesn't obliviate the good ones.

[FrankReynolds]

Funny you should mention that- we just had two newbies show up on our linkshell.

What's hurting things is that because we don't have the old model, new players are isolated, alone, and drop the game. It's kinda scary how many folks I've "salvaged" out of starting areas simply by happening by when they're in the middle of full-on "This is a ghost town, WTF" rants or just randomly chugging along in starting areas.

I thoroughly blame Abyssea having a level 30 limit for this. The "go to Gusgen and then leech" philosophy caused a critical disconnect at the bottom. It honestly should be a 71+ level area -even GoV/FoV is more social than many Abyssea experiences, and social time is what bound FFXI together.

Two people doesn't mean the game is making a comeback.

That said, how would spending the next six months leveling one job make them more interested in the game than leveling quickly and then doing quests, missions, events etc. with the other members of your shell? Would everyone go back and level with them? Why not do that now?

[Rustic]

Two people doesn't mean the game is making a comeback.

That said, how would spending the next six months leveling one job make them more interested in the game than leveling quickly and then doing quests, missions, events etc. with the other members of your shell? Would everyone go back and level with them? Why not do that now?

Note: I said Abyssea.

GoV/FoV does just fine for leveling jobs faster than the old days, but it isn't simply watching someone who can't contribute otherwise running around popping boxes. It encourages people to actually do something- attack mobs, heal, debuff, etc.

There's no reason to go back to oldschool exp PTs, but Abyssea was overkill in the other direction, a sop for devs who thought they were giving us a farewell present.

[Anjou]

TL:DR version of this entire thread and its glorious majesty:

Shit's broke.

[Daemon]

TL:DR version of this entire thread and its glorious majesty:

Shit's broke.

Yeah thats because limits are being stretched beyond the boundaries which causes the game to be in its current state.

You can only eat so much and expect so much from the chef serving you your dinner.

[scaevola]

jeez, how broken does your brain have to be to blame a change that's been with us for more than 3 years for a dive in population that is only happening right now

[Rustic]

jeez, how broken does your brain have to be to blame a change that's been with us for more than 3 years for a dive in population that is only happening right now

Cause it hasn't been "right now". It's been happening for years, but FFXIV + Adoulin just pushed that into the spotlight.

And we had the mass server merges in 2010-2011, if you don't remember your history. But something that chokes off your flow of newbies doesn't kill server population immediately, it bleeds it away as attrition gets people logged off the game for good. Without those new players, anything that jolts the population downwards has a magnified effect simply because there's nobody to -replace- those departing players. And with FFXIV, that is definitely a jolt. We almost had it happen with 1.0, but the colossal failure of the original FFXIV ended up meaning most of those players came back.

It's like killing a tree from the roots up.

[Daemon]

jeez, how broken does your brain have to be to blame a change that's been with us for more than 3 years for a dive in population that is only happening right now

You do know that every adjustment is according to the majority of the playerbase? Which right now happens to be 99- ilvl 120? Which means everything adjusted for that level range will have effects across the entire game.

Adjusting old content is like playing Jenga. It can alter and break the storyline.

The only way to continue progressing is to add more on top but then the tower can only go so high.. Which is limitations according to the game engine used to create the game. How long ago was this game made? 11 years ago? Maybe 12-13 years ago?

You can't expect an Atari to perform like a PS3.

We actually are lucky on this MMORPGs. Some games intentionally force rollbacks in order to reset the playerbase back at ground zero and climb the ladder again.

The way I see it, DEVs are struggling to break past the limited threshold.

Pay really close attention to the DEVs responses. You can tell they are trying and see they are struggling.

Matsui is no newbie to game development. I can understand an intern giving excuses of "we need more time trying to come up with an alternative" due to lack of experience.

Note: lack of experience.

To Matsui this is routine.

At his age and status it doesn't make sense to deliberately make excuses unless they are facing real issues. I just don't see anyone who loves their job and do something out of passion and make it their entire career purposely lie in order to slack off.

Tons of time and money go into Game development but then again imagine his Reputation with the world watching.

What more can you do in life if you reach retirement, earned a nice living, seen most of world, own everything you wanted? Gamble your fortune at the casino and start over again?

This game is old. Can't expect everyone to stay interested in 1 video all their life.

[scaevola]

that's a whole lot of words that have nothing to do with how people were apparently okay enough with abyssea leveling to keep playing until a time that MYSTERIOUSLY CORRELATES to the release of a bad expansion and a good sequel

EDIT: granted, a lot of people left when the previous expansion, they felt, invalidated the work they had put in to date, but a lot MORE people stuck around because that expansion, abyssea, was for its part very good

[FrankReynolds]

that's a whole lot of words that have nothing to do with how people were apparently okay enough with abyssea leveling to keep playing until a time that MYSTERIOUSLY CORRELATES to the release of a bad expansion and a good sequel

EDIT: granted, a lot of people left when the previous expansion, they felt, invalidated the work they had put in to date, but a lot MORE people stuck around because that expansion, abyssea, was for its part very good

I know right? Both of those posts rambled on about problems that had nothing to do with abyssea...

[Daemon]

that's a whole lot of words that have nothing to do with how people were apparently okay enough with abyssea leveling to keep playing until a time that MYSTERIOUSLY CORRELATES to the release of a bad expansion and a good sequel

EDIT: granted, a lot of people left when the previous expansion, they felt, invalidated the work they had put in to date, but a lot MORE people stuck around because that expansion, abyssea, was for its part very good

Because Ive already explained it before in other posts.

Its not a simple answer that you can just sum up in 1 sentence.

A sequel has to follow the storyline of the original book. Any reader who doesn't read the original won't understand what the sequel is about and how it relates to the entire story.

1 mistake in the sequel can throw off the entire story of both the book and the sequel.

Then again if a writer is not finished giving you the entire story and only releases segments of it then the reader has to patiently wait for the writer to release the rest of the parts to complete the entire sequel.

Again 1 mistake can confuse the reader and even give you a reason to skip parts of the story. At this point in order to keep you interested the writer has to spoil you with certain things you want to hear even if it has to deviate from the story for the moment.

A magician performing tricks has to draw your attention to a specific thing instantly allowing him to complete his trick in secret behind the scene. If your attention is focused on him he cannot trick you.

Game development has similar tricks.

When a mistake is made its like a comedian who mapped out a show has to spend time trying to cover up his mistakes and make it look like it was part of his act.

Which adds more work and extends the show to be longer than expected.

[FrankReynolds]

Yeah, but when a seal says blue, monsters under the bed meow and then you have to build a better ocean or the people will cut their snozzberries into tiny pieces and fly away on toothbrushes made of gold.

[Slaxx]

Yeah, but when a seal says blue, monsters under the bed meow and then you have to build a better ocean or the people will cut their snozzberries into tiny pieces and fly away on toothbrushes made of gold.

Cab I get a copy of your Daemon to English dictionary? It might help make some sort of sense and possibly explain the relevance of what he's talking about.

[Daemon]

Abbysea was full of repeatable events made for 18 man alliances or lower. There are several quests and missions that cannot be done quickly. Between having to wait for stones to replinish to traveling to several maps to reach each maw, you had many things to do spread across a bigger area of the game than SoA.

The main point you are not understanding and seeing?

The difference is you cannot compare other expansions with Soa. To compare ToAu and SoA is like comparing the salary of an entry level job to a CEO.

Level difference changes the content.

The higher level you reach, the more content and detail is required to keep you interested. Which takes alot more time because of the speed of how players can race through content.

Obviously at this point of the game players are speeding through faster than content being put out. In order to stall, they will have to add more repeatable tasks and events with daily limits.

Look at Starcraft for example. The reason people spam the game over and over is because its your typical repeat from ground zero to max in a short amount of time giving you a quicker feeling of progress and instant gratification.

FFXI just takes longer to progress and gives players a load of feelings of failure because the game is made for you to be dependent on others and make friends and get them to work with you as a team to get anywhere.

[Kuvo]

Im gonna say it.... I miss the old grind days of leveling. Ya it sucked as a leveling stand point but so much more things made that way of leveling awesome imo. First of all you got to see and explore the world,you got to meet new people and u had to communicate. I loved that you had to understand your role and work together. I miss leveling in the dunes teaching new players how to do low level skillchains then timing the correct nuke for a strong MB. I miss creating cool party macros for AM spells and have the DDs time the SC correctly. All that is gone from this game. The adventure, exploring, meeting new friends, and just plain fun. This is all my opinion but I do miss it. Nothing is fun for me by leveling in a week to 99, getting delve gear that breaks all game content and the only thing to do really is to get the best gear in the game and do nothing with it besides look pretty.

[Slaxx]

Why can you not compare ToAU and SoA? They are both expansions to THE SAME MMO. We aren't comparing WotLK to CoP or some other such complete nonsense. The level caps for each of those expansions is different of course but both expansions were designed with endgame (75 or 99) players in mind.

The way SE has gone about presenting that new content has changed radically in the 6 (? 7?) years since ToAU was released but isn't that what a comparison is? You look at 2 different but similar things and point out the similarities and differences between them. I'm not sure you understand what a comparison is. This comparison wouldn't be apples and oranges, it would be 2 different kinds of apples.

PS. Stones and abyssea time haven't been an issue since a few weeks after the first 3 zones were released. That's about how long it took for people to start figuring out how to get time consistently and once you can do that how many stones you have isn't really a limiting factor. How long after the first zones were released was the abyssea teleport NPC? If it was right away (and I honestly don't remember for sure, but I think it was) then you weren't travelling any farther than Lower Jeuno to get to the maw you needed and then you can pop around inside abyssea zones from point to point (takes about 20-25 minutes of running around to get them all). And all the abyssea zones were familiar to us already.

And wasn't one of your (completely erroneous) arguments that you didn't need to do new content to be able to pontificate on it? So now its "Level difference changes the content". Have you seen the error of your ways or are you just inconsistent?

[scaevola]

Why can't I compare SoA with Abyssea/Voidwatch/various 2.0 events? I have never heard a satisfactory explanation as to why Abyssea et. al. is not an expansion.

In any case, SoA is not terrible as FFXI expansions go, taken individually. It's right in the middle in terms of quality; not as good as ToAU (though this is maybe unfair because it's better than ToAU was at the 6 month mark, pre-Nyzul, pre-Salvage) or Abyssea, better than WotG, WAY better than RoZ or CoP. I think the argument you're doing an extraordinarily bad job of making is that SoA's mediocrity matters more than previous expansions, since we can no longer fall back on old content to keep ourselves occupied. It supplants, not supplements, and while this isn't a bad thing for an MMO expansion to do (WoW in particular consistently does it very well; they aren't expansions so much as sequels and they give the Azeroth a sense of forward motion), FFXI is just straight up not good enough at releasing crunchy content quickly enough to sustain itself in this model. From what I've seen, this opinion is pretty standard among players right now. I don't know if I could offer an alternative; I certainly don't want to go back to killing Kirin again. I'm sure I'd have more to say if I played Everquest.

None of this, however, has ANYTHING to do with leveling, by which I mean the process by which players gain experience points through the most efficient means available. We all think the game is way too thin right now but that's absolutely a result of SoA, not the MMO vestigial organ of XP.

[Daemon]

Because level difference effects the overall speed of progression toward the content in question.

Look at the level range of ToAu VS SoA and the overall power of the entire community progressing with the content.

If you are level 30-50 instances are quicker (similar to instant gratification of achieving goals easier) but more time consuming to past through it compared to being ilvl 120 and doing content related to that level range.


In the course of 6 months the speed at which DEVs have added content to SoA in reality is the same speed adding general content but difference is at level 99-ilvl 120 the content requires more detail and a lot more work compared to level range 30-50.

You expect the DEV team to put out more than what they can right now because at your level range you are speeding past the content faster.

[scaevola]

The most charitable reading of your argument is that FFXI was always shitty, but we (meaning you) didn't realize it because the leveling game kept you from having to discard your fantasies about how good the max level game must be.

[Daemon]

I don't see how anyone can do a better job to make the game than it is if you have the limitations of a game engine made more than 11 years ago.

That's why Atari, Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Psp, Play station 1 & 2, and all other old consoles were discontinued.

[scaevola]

Well, for one thing, you could eliminate (or at least provide an end-run around) the often frustrating and alienating XP grind that limits people from experiencing the content already in place.

oh wait

More seriously, the power jump caused by SoA gear, particularly out of Delve, that's rendered the entire past game moot and put all focus on half-implemented Adoulin represents a specific, purely editorial design decision that has nothing to do with hardware.

[FrankReynolds]

Well, for one thing, you could eliminate (or at least provide an end-run around) the often frustrating and alienating XP grind that limits people from experiencing the content already in place.

oh wait

More seriously, the power jump caused by SoA gear, particularly out of Delve, that's rendered the entire past game moot and put all focus on half-implemented Adoulin represents a specific, purely editorial design decision that has nothing to do with hardware.

This.

It has nothing to do with hardware / software limitations. It has everything to do with the mode / pace of progression they chose to implement. Which by the way, was more work than implementing a slower more reasonably thought out mode of progression (ie. merit points and / or much smaller leaps in gear stats vs. adding a stupid iLevel stat).

[Daemon]

None of this, however, has ANYTHING to do with leveling, by which I mean the process by which players gain experience points through the most efficient means available. We all think the game is way too thin right now but that's absolutely a result of SoA, not the MMO vestigial organ of XP.

You are looking at a moment where the majority of the playerbase has already surpassed the leveling phase of the game. Unless SE rollsback all characters and start everyone again at ground Zero then at this point of the game in order to bring those who are starting a new account up to par where the majority is at things like FC to 99 in less than half a day exist.

Lack of people to make exp parties happen. The only way to keep people who are at the inevitable question interested is to keep pumping out repeatables, limited time base events to keep you staring at the middle of the computer screen and play.

[scaevola]

You are looking at a moment where the majority of the playerbase has already surpassed the leveling phase of the game. Unless SE rollsback all characters and start everyone again at ground Zero then at this point of the game in order to bring those who are starting a new account up to par where the majority is at things like FC to 99 in less than half a day exist.

Lack of oeople to make exp parties happen. The only way to keep people who are at the inevitable question interested is to keep pumping out repeatables, limited time base events to keep you staring at the middle of the computer screen and play.

If FFXI had introduced quick-ish leveling at the start, maybe not Abyssea quick, but let's say your first max-level character in....2 months or so for most players interested in logging in for maybe a dozen hours a week, one of two things would have happened:

1. FFXI would have had a MUCH richer and well-developed endgame for most of its history. Late ToAU-level by the time RoZ came out.

OR

2. The game would have flamed out Warhammer-style almost immediately.


Either way, it's an open question as to whether everyone involved not named sage sundi would not have been better off. The fact that this huge toad sitting athwart our clear view of the meat of the game was abruptly swept aside in 2010 shows HUGE confidence on the part of SE regarding what they had in mind, and I think it's a tremendous credit to Abyssea and what followed that so many people who never would have kept playing at 75 if they'd actually gotten there and saw what was waiting for them* ponied up and happily kept playing at the new caps; the content, for the first time, was crunchy, accessible, engaging, surprising, and fun! Cue SoA!



*smart, well-written endgame posters who had completed everything short of AV/PW used to have fights, honest to God fights, about the most efficient ways/setups to kill Greater Colibri. I mean, take a step back and think about that.

[Daemon]

If FFXI had introduced quick-ish leveling at the start, maybe not Abyssea quick, but let's say your first max-level character in....2 months or so for most players interested in logging in for maybe a dozen hours a week, one of two things would have happened:

1. FFXI would have had a MUCH richer and well-developed endgame for most of its history. Late ToAU-level by the time RoZ came out.

OR

2. The game would have flamed out Warhammer-style almost immediately.


Either way, it's an open question as to whether everyone involved not named sage sundi would not have been better off.

Only if the DEV team had enough time to produce rich content. Game programming is a race between players and the team creating the content. We are playing a game of cat and mouse nonstop because this is a never ending MMORPG.

These repeatables, time limited events, horrible drop rates and tough progression standards set within the game in reality are excuses to stall you.

[scaevola]

Only if the DEV team had enough time to produce rich content. Game programming is a race between players and the team creating the content. We are playing a game of cat and mouse nonstop because this is a never ending MMORPG.

These repeatables, time limited events, horrible drop rates and tough progression standards set within the game in reality are excuses to stall you.

This game has been tremendously materially rewarding since Magians was put in. Pulse stuff was hard to get, but that's because it was the jackpot on a slot machine that was free to play and paid out every single pull.

We loved it in 2010-2012, but are leaving in droves through SoA. Effort-reward is not the issue.

(ps if FFXI were set to cataclysmically tank in 2003, it would have received the same redoubling of effort XIV got)

[Daemon]

This game has been tremendously materially rewarding since Magians was put in. Pulse stuff was hard to get, but that's because it was the jackpot on a slot machine that was free to play and paid out every single pull.

We loved it in 2010-2012, but are leaving in droves through SoA. Effort-reward is not the issue.

(ps if FFXI were set to cataclysmically tank in 2003, it would have received the same redoubling of effort XIV got)

This is the problem with an 11 year game. What level range was the content back in 2010-2012?

[Rustic]

Well, for one thing, you could eliminate (or at least provide an end-run around) the often frustrating and alienating XP grind that limits people from experiencing the content already in place.

Not only did they eliminate it, they managed to eliminate most of the reasons the zones said levels existed for in the process. And the reasons people even hung around in the starting cities.

I mean, I regularly have to explain to newbie people capped at level 50 why fame matters or how to get to anywhere save Gusgen Mines and Crawler's Nest. The incentives to explore, to actually be in the game world were obliterated with Abyssea. Because little blue boxes and a L30 entry limit.