New Job: Dark Knight

[Urteil]

Oh. . .

I made myself sad.

: (

[Nataskiller]

.......:( i r crying on the inside 2 but look at it like this.... 2 MORE DAYS!

[Tsukino_Kaji]

They were going to add DRK to the game, but now they're going to delete because of this thread. lol

[bishop]

christian bale armor.

[Flunklesnarkin]

There's so much wrong with drk atm....

[Kits]

There's so much wrong with drk atm....

is there? when i first started playing the whole plan was to be a drk. from what i see, i thought they got hooked up with some nice spells and what not. whats wrong with em?

[Sparthos]

is there? when i first started playing the whole plan was to be a drk. from what i see, i thought they got hooked up with some nice spells and what not. whats wrong with em?

Lack of a crit-hit WS in Abyssea is the biggest problem with DRK atm.

and no, Rampage doesn't count.

[Kits]

That's sad, DRK always appeared to be main DD, in my eyes

[Kits]

except for blm ofcourse

[Selzak]

That's sad, DRK always appeared to be main DD, in my eyes
It kind of appeared that way to everyone lol, but I think SE decided to push the WAR/BLM thing towards "gimp WAR/uselessly gimp BLM" instead of fitting it into its own unique role.

There's lots of room to fix it though, if SE could just decide on a direction and do it. There are some good ideas in the DRK thread (and bad ones, too). I think the main problem with DRK, even more than lacking a crit WS, is that it's such a confused job right now. The job could benefit a lot from stances IMO, it's stuck in a sort of bi-polar state at the moment.

[rog]

Lack of a crit-hit WS in Abyssea is the biggest problem with DRK atm.

and no, Rampage doesn't count.
Why not? Axe is their best weapon right now.

[Selzak]

Why not? Axe is their best weapon right now.
Well, because that means DRK is (at best) a gimp WAR.

The job should be able to bring its own benefits to the table, not a mock version of something else.

[rog]

Well, because that means DRK is (at best) a gimp WAR.

The job should be able to bring its own benefits to the table, not a mock version of something else.
Ok, but it's still their best weapon. You can't just ignore rampage because it seems silly.

[Selzak]

Ok, but it's still their best weapon. You can't just ignore rampage because it seems silly.
That's why it doesn't count.

[Urteil]

Ok, but it's still their best weapon. You can't just ignore rampage because it seems silly.

Its about as silly as DRK being best when using a club.

[Khajit]

is there? when i first started playing the whole plan was to be a drk. from what i see, i thought they got hooked up with some nice spells and what not. whats wrong with em?
Thier best weapon is currently axe or Gaxe if you want to consider fell cleaving, Apoc became trash because there's so much haste in the game now that it's impossible to get your gear haste low enough to use the aftermath and cata's use itself is no longer needed when mages have unlimited mp to curebomb you, scythe has no crit ws and can barely break 1k, gsword's POWER SLASH is one of the most powerful ws a drk gets when everyone else (in decent/good gear)is busting out 3~6k to demonstrate how pathetic gsword ws are atm, the empyrian weapons are the weakest for any job barring drg, BRD is an outright stronger DD than drk atm due to daggers+ evisceration, using any spells at all weakens your damage, Hasso from the best DD sj slows down any spells that might help even more and the only 2 real upgrades to drk damage are the critical attack bonuses and the twilight scythe's additional effect death proc.
Drk didnt even get to use some drk exclusive spells for greelow proc which would have at least forced some groups to at least consider drks for NM kills.
Even SE/BW zerging is probably weak now thanks to every other job actually having decent damage buffs enough to probably make them superior.

[Selzak]

Thier best weapon is currently axe or Gaxe if you want to consider fell cleaving, Apoc became trash because there's so much haste in the game now that it's impossible to get your gear haste low enough to use the aftermath and cata's use itself is no longer needed when mages have unlimited mp to curebomb you, scythe has no crit ws and can barely break 1k, gsword's POWER SLASH is one of the most powerful ws a drk gets when everyone else (in decent/good gear)is busting out 3~6k to demonstrate how pathetic gsword ws are atm, the empyrian weapons are the weakest for any job barring drg, BRD is an outright stronger DD than drk atm due to daggers+ evisceration, using any spells at all weakens your damage, Hasso from the best DD sj slows down any spells that might help even more and the only 2 real upgrades to drk damage are the critical attack bonuses and the twilight scythe's additional effect death proc.
Drk didnt even get to use some drk exclusive spells for greelow proc which would have at least forced some groups to at least consider drks for NM kills.
Even SE/BW zerging is probably weak now thanks to every other job actually having decent damage buffs enough to probably make them superior.
Caladbolg is pretty powerful, if you want to consider an Empyrean weapon in all of this (which I guess we can, since Apoc was mentioned).

Also, Apoc is definitely not trash. It got a big relative nerf, and it's not a game-changer anymore for DRK...but I think a lot of people exaggerate when it comes to Apocalypse.

[Sparthos]

Why not? Axe is their best weapon right now.

It's been explained already but Rampage being their best weaponskill not only makes their main weapons useless but also highlights the primary failing of the class.

The same idea carries over to COR being best right now with Evisceration assuming said COR doesn't have Wildfire. It's merely just a workaround of the problem with critWS being so overpowered atm.

DRK will benefit greatly from post-Abyssea content. The current crits or GTFO mentality is not helping the class in the slightest.

[Khajit]

Caladbolg is pretty powerful, if you want to consider an Empyrean weapon in all of this (which I guess we can, since Apoc was mentioned).

Also, Apoc is definitely not trash. It got a big relative nerf, and it's not a game-changer anymore for DRK...but I think a lot of people exaggerate when it comes to Apocalypse.
Your best weapon for damage is an AXE. A lv 71 maneater beats out relic weapons on a job that doesnt have axe as an A skill. Yes all the empy/mythic weapons for drk are technically trash atm. It is a problem that needs to be fixed and being in denial will only help SE be in denial too until drks admit it to themselves.

[Selzak]

Your best weapon for damage is an AXE. A lv 71 maneater beats out relic weapons on a job that doesnt have axe as an A skill. Yes all the empy/mythic weapons for drk are technically trash atm.
I guess we have different definitions of trash. Also might be looking at the game from different perspectives. Axe is definitely the best weapon for damage, but I wouldn't call an upgraded Apoc or Caladbolg trash- especially when you consider parts of the game that aren't abyssea.

[Sama]

DRK needs a new JA call 'Hit the Mob' and 'Hit Faster'...

[Kits]

Sad.. really seems like abyssea messed a lot of things up. Its like changing physics. Things are doing what theyre not meant to do

[Sparthos]

Except post-Abyssea will fix the problem.

DRK is currently in the same situation as SAM, BRD, COR etc. The jobs have seen diminished value due to the circumstances inside Abyssea. Outside Abyssea, Emp DRKs and Relic DRKs will be just fine barring any major gamechangers we're currently unaware of.

The value of Cata has indeed dropped since Haste has become trivial but the weapon is still solid. The point of whining about Abyssea when the content has ended is silly. Save whatever bitching for the future content where it counts.

[Khajit]

My brd outdamages entire alliances while buffing people with near constant SV marches so whachu talkin bout willis?

[Kits]

whats cata ._. ...

[Harukusan]

You guys make it sound like DRK has never been the underdog as a front line DD before. Situationally DRK was an amazing job. Abyssea is just another "situation." Anyone who has played longer than a year should know this by now: Abyssea isn't going to last forever, nothing released in the past is at it's peak of popularity now, and many jobs that are considered end-all today will be set back to neutrality. Abyssea does not define a job, the person who controls it does. Giving DRK the disadvantage beside other jobs performance-wise didn't stop most of us from playing it, we found ways to make it stronger and more competitive. Take that into consideration before you start posting any more of your crybaby emo rants. You're giving DRK a bad image (as if it hasn't already gotten one).

[TearValerin]

Except post-Abyssea will fix the problem.

DRK is currently in the same situation as SAM, BRD, COR etc. The jobs have seen diminished value due to the circumstances inside Abyssea. Outside Abyssea, Emp DRKs and Relic DRKs will be just fine barring any major gamechangers we're currently unaware of.

The value of Cata has indeed dropped since Haste has become trivial but the weapon is still solid. The point of whining about Abyssea when the content has ended is silly. Save whatever bitching for the future content where it counts.

Ending its addons doesn't mean the game is abandoning the content, Abyssea is obviously still going to play a major role in our gear/leveling if they're till making changes and taking ideas for it. Especially with the acquisition of seals. From new content standpoint, I don't think drk can actively recover unless it gets some kind of buff to make it come out of this wonky state. Sure Torcleaver, Quietus, etc are decent on holding their own, but what about those casual drk who don't have final weapons? I think DRK needs some major WSC mod changes on it's WS to make it a more viable DD again, and be given some other beneficial enfeebles... otherwise it'll be sent to obscurity.

It's kind of strange how the 2 best DDs years back have now become backburners, and the 2 loljobs suddenly became beastly. Drg and war are the new sam, pup no longer a laughing stock, outdamages both sam and drk... Poor drk.

[Sparthos]

My brd outdamages entire alliances while buffing people with near constant SV marches so whachu talkin bout willis?

Frankly BRD is a luxury in Abyssea. The age of BRD making this revolutionary difference ended with Atmas, priority on anti-zerg tactics and overall ease of mobs.

It's ability to yellow !! mobs is rendered null/void when someone can sub and have all the triggers. Monsters also tend to range from being able to be thren'd with a subjob to immune, making skill irrelevant. The marches are undercut when you need triggers on mobs and are trying to slow kills not speed them up and thus your DD ability on BRD is just for fun or to show off in EXP. Nothing like putting "real" DD on their ass with Evisceration from a support job.

Pre-Abyssea no one would deny a BRD for another because it was an indispensable job that was a pocket gamechanger. The age of Abyssea has made the job a luxury as your Atmas are more than enough to get the job done.

@TearVelerin

It really doesn't matter as the game is currently incomplete. It'd like me complaining that BLU sucks under level 60. We haven't reached the cap yet @99 so DRK has plenty of room to evolve. The changes to Walk of Echoes will no doubt make Quietus/Torcleaver easier to obtain and DRK will return to the status it enjoyed when people move out of Abyssea and onto whatever content spans 90-99.

Barring a huge gamechanger, DRK should return to the dogpile of DD after Abyssea somewhere in the middle. It'll never probably approach the level of great WAR but the job was designed as a hybrid and so it'll remain as such. I know alot of DRKs find the magical side as useless since it eats up DD time but its the only way to make DRK different from smashy smash WAR.

tl;dr: DRK will be glad that Abyssea is over so long as the new content doesn't emphasize spamming Atmas or crits. Cata will be useful again for self heals when the era of perma capped MP ends as well.

[Khajit]

whats cata ._. ...
Catastrophe aka drk's relic ws that used to be amazing. The self cure was a nice bonus and the haste aftermath was wonderful until there was so much haste about that the haste equip cap kept on being slammed into no matter how hard a drk would try if they had good gear. The haste aftermath really needs to be put into it's own haste category at this point ingame.

[rog]

It's been explained already but Rampage being their best weaponskill not only makes their main weapons useless but also highlights the primary failing of the class.
Well yeah, but it's still not entirely true to say they don't have any crit ws.

[Khajit]

Frankly BRD is a luxury in Abyssea. The age of BRD making this revolutionary difference ended with Atmas, priority on anti-zerg tactics and overall ease of mobs.

It's ability to yellow !! mobs is rendered null/void when someone can sub and have all the triggers. Monsters also tend to range from being able to be thren'd with a subjob to immune, making skill irrelevant. The marches are undercut when you need triggers on mobs and are trying to slow kills not speed them up and thus your DD ability on BRD is just for fun or to show off in EXP. Nothing like putting "real" DD on their ass with Evisceration from a support job.

Pre-Abyssea no one would deny a BRD for another because it was an indispensable job that was a pocket gamechanger. The age of Abyssea has made the job a luxury as your Atmas are more than enough to get the job done.

We have the discenment abyssite now and the math i've been shown shows that a single brd using marches alone impacts killspeed more than adding any DD. There is almost no such thing as killing a mob too fast except when the mob is too spammy to check everything quickly or i have one of those loser blu's that dont set their greelow procs ahead of time. Unless the mob dies in 30 seconds it's really not a problem and any issues with killing a mob "too fast" tend to be the result of bad greelow proccers. And so what if brd isn't a princess job anymore. It tells me that SE finally made brd halfway balanced in terms of it's contribution to a party. Cor if anything needs to be complaining(compared to brd) since they took more damage in their support role by not being as good as brd(nor having a greelow proc as a bonus) while also losing out on their DD ability until they either use dagger or finish an empy.

[Sparthos]

Well yeah, but it's still not entirely true to say they don't have any crit ws.

The job was made by design to use Great Swords and Scythes. The idea of Axe being top was killed off once by SE and yet again its ugly head has shown itself.

Yes DRK has a crit WS but ultimately the use of Rampage is a workaround that has the job using inferior weaponry simply to have a decent WS. Surely it is an oversight by SE granted they put effort into putting RampageDRK to rest just a while ago.

[Baccanale]

Greetings, players!
I moved this post from "General Discussion" to "Dark Knight." Thanks for your participation!

[TearValerin]

It really doesn't matter as the game is currently incomplete. It'd like me complaining that BLU sucks under level 60. We haven't reached the cap yet @99 so DRK has plenty of room to evolve. The changes to Walk of Echoes will no doubt make Quietus/Torcleaver easier to obtain and DRK will return to the status it enjoyed when people move out of Abyssea and onto whatever content spans 90-99.

Barring a huge gamechanger, DRK should return to the dogpile of DD after Abyssea somewhere in the middle. It'll never probably approach the level of great WAR but the job was designed as a hybrid and so it'll remain as such. I know alot of DRKs find the magical side as useless since it eats up DD time but its the only way to make DRK different from smashy smash WAR.

tl;dr: DRK will be glad that Abyssea is over so long as the new content doesn't emphasize spamming Atmas or crits. Cata will be useful again for self heals when the era of perma capped MP ends as well.
I disagree, I don't think Abyssea will ever be 'over' and even as we move on to new content will still play a major influence in FFXI. I mean, you can't really just abandon something that's literally consumed the game with something new and shiny over night. Until drk gets some major perks to make it worthwhile again, it's still going to be an inferior in a sense to other jobs that can pump out the pure numbers.

Blu before 60 is really irrelevant, it has its niche, drk doesnt.

[Urteil]

Aghast, my nemesis. . .

Curse you Baccanale!