[dev 1003] Abyssea Adjustments - Weakness Proc

[Dieth]

Currently NIN & WAR cover all the Red Procs, so these jobs are a 100% must for Abyssea Tiered NM pops, or when you are after Atma. There are 18 other jobs in the game please make them more useful in this respect.

I spent a week leveling NIN & WAR after Abyssea came out(well after I got back into the game after Hero's was released). I am still a SAM at heart, and would much rather be able to full time this job than my two new twink jobs.

Consider one of the following:

1. Add more low tier elemental weapons kills that can trigger Red, (Ie Freezebite triggers for Ice, but not Blade: To. Cyclone for Wind but not Gust Slash or Aeolian Edge). Allow WS's that match the element a 20% chance to trigger, even if they are not the right one.

2. Allow more jobs access to Weapons but give them low rank. NIN gets Great Katana, but SAM can't use a normal Katana.

3. Have the weakness's be something that the claiming/popping alliance/party should have access too, assume everyone in the group has capped there weapon skills (If not that person should get on that). If there's no WAR/DRK/PLD in the party, Freezebite SHOULD not be the weakness. If there's no NIN Blade: Ei SHOULD not be the weakness. (Remember this is my third/last alternative, #1/#2 would be much better, and still provide a challenge, as this would make Proc'ing very easy).

Abyssea is a great new place, but right now it's WAR NIN MNK BRD BLM WHM BLU THF. That's 12 other jobs with nothing to do to but be excluded.

edit I forgot about BLU

[Alkalinehoe]

No thanks. You're pretty much asking SE, "Hey SE, stop learning from your past mistakes and make the game more annoying." Its fine as is. If you desperately feel the need to come SAM to every event join a big abyssea LS. The way it is now people can low man comfortably.

[Karumac]

Quick Draw shots should be on the Yellow list.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Quick Draw shots should be on the Yellow list.I agree, they should.
I myself don't want to see more, but I still agree.

[Cerelyn]

Nooo, my LS gonna make me go COR then!

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Nooo, my LS gonna make me go COR then!I agree more. ^^

[Insaniac]

The downside to this is it would have the exact opposite effect on any job with lots of procs. Why would you bring a war when it's just gonna make procing harder on you by increasing the pool of possible procs? I also don't know the logistics on doing an alliance check every time an NM is claimed to see what WSs they have available.

[Ryozen]

Abyssea is a great new place, but right now it's WAR NIN MNK BRD BLM WHM THF. That's 13 other jobs with nothing to do to but be excluded.
You forgot BLU.

Also, those jobs won't cover the piercing/slashing windows for blue !!, for what it's worth.

[Sonshou]

If Quick Draw is included, how about Helixes?

How about make flourish become weakness trigger as well?

[Cerelyn]

I agree more. ^^

I bet you do ...... And I'll make you play WHM then!

[Karumac]

If Quick Draw is included, how about Helixes?

How about make flourish become weakness trigger as well?

Helix yes, but what's Flourish have to do with Yellow magic procs?

[Cerelyn]

Flourish = blue? lol

[Alhanelem]

They should just remove weakness procs and improve the droprates of stuff.

Really- nothing frustrates me more than not being able to come a DD job because we have a SAM and WAR, and everyone else has to idle til weakness is triggered. It's the most artificial way to lengthen a fight.

[Vold]

The biggest complaint I hear about Abyssea is that people hate standing by doing nothing while procs are done. Players figured it all out and now we just want to proc first then kill. How about NMs get the "slow" treatment. Let's have them toned down to start, incredibly slow TP gain, spells are few and far between, and with a huge HP boost to compensate. Everyone can engage and go at it until procs land. Once azure weakness lands, the monster "rages" and spell casting increases. Once pearl weakness lands, the monster "rages" and TP moves increase. Once ruby weakness lands, both the monster's TP and spell actions increase.

Another idea I just want to throw out there is that NMs have immunity to any damage until after all three procs are landed instead of increasing it's HP. A gimmick in order to kill it which would require the NM to check you and then calculate what random weaknesses it should use.

Now I know what some of you might be thinking, this is just a wonderful idea to guarantee a loss because you don't have the proc, but mind you this would work in a system where a NMs weaknesses are decided by the opposing force it is facing. Solo would still work as /anythingthatcancastmagic or in other words /nin and no I'm not really concerned that you whoever you may be would be against it because solos are few and far between in Abyssea and is no kind of a reason to hold ideas and content design back just so you could solo without requiring ninja tools time from time to proc azure. Anyway, it's something that may very well be unrealistic but if it is, don't forget that some stuff likes to be highly resistant to certain spells and that it would spell certain doom to the players if they can't land azure on a NM. Perhaps the spell that procs should become a guaranteed hit regardless of resists.

Still, I would like to at least see my rage idea implemented regardless of other changes. I think it would be ideal that a monster gets really ticked off that you played dirty and exploited it's weakness just so you could have your little atma, key item, and drops. Mind you I don't want to see the NM wiping people in true rage mode. I use the term loosely. Just a simple boost in action frequency to spice things up.

[annewandering]

Well people can think of ways to use this as it is. Our LS uses two groups. One for the NM and one to farm pops. Lately our LS leader has discovered pup which he made fun of for years. He was amazed how fun and useful it is. Every job can have its use, properly done, and I think that is something SE worked hard to do in Abyssea.
I see no reason to change the proc set up although changes would make it easier but isnt making everything easy, the best way to ruin the game?

[Hyden]

Most mobs in Abyssea don't require 18 people (20 with all jobs?) to kill, which is nice for lower-manned groups, or split alliances. Being able to take proc and take down 99% of the Abyssea mobs with a specialized party isn't a bad thing.
Have you ever tried AF seal farming with an entire alliance? I like being able to take a MNK WHM and THF to a little NM to proc blue and being able to get a drop instead of dragging out a whole LS alliance. Anyone complaining about red procs being too easy probably hasn't farmed Chloris pops. 7 NMs, 4 of which need red procs for KIs, to pop Chloris 1 time. If you're reeeeeeeeeeeally luck, that's 100 red procs you need to complete 1 weapon.
I understand that people want to be able to play their favorite jobs, but not all jobs are useful in all situations. All jobs are able to proc !!s. PUP still gets H2H triggers, DRG still has Raiden Thurst and a few blue trigs. SCH has T3/4 nukes. Some jobs just happen to be more efficient at it than others. WAR can't nuke, THF can't use threnody, and MNK can't do wind elemental WSs. Even the most popular jobs these days can't do it all alone.
IMO the proc system lends itself nicely to patient, specialized low-man parties as well as slash and burn alliances with 1 of everything.

[Tellahchan]

I'd be in favor of a slight lessening of !! trigger conditions.
As someone who trio's with friends, none of us have ideal "proc"ing jobs, it seems alot of our efforts are wasted.
If say, each !! had 2 triggers possible at any given time, and the first to be triggered would disable the 2nd trigger. I think a system like that would speed up procs and be more friendly to non-ideal groups.

[Camate]

Thanks a lot for all the feedback!

I just made a post on Abyssea related topics (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5339-dev1003-Abyssea-Adjustments-%28more-Empyrean-whining-whaaaat-facepalm%29?p=76599&viewfull=1#post76599), which addresses NM weakness triggering. Please check it out.

[Scuro]

The links being posted are not working, at least for me

[Camate]

The links being posted are not working, at least for me

Thanks! Fixed!

[Juilan]

The devs say its too hard to have the output from a stagger be "The (trigger) staggers the <t>. Think how much of a pain they'd have if they had to do a logic check for every weapon equipped when the monster is popped? Having to what amounts to a switch statement for 16 different variables and then assign each a value and then randomly pick the value for the proc.

The issue is low man versus big man shells. Low man shells the war and nin requirement for red is great. Large man shells how about this one, be quiet about war getting all the work and have one person bring every weapon (rng and war with two though) and you'll get war mnk whm blm rdm thf drk brd rng sam nin drg blu going to everything. Leaving them with one or two weapon skills to do, or zero if the tank has disernment. Things like this remind me of why a lot of big shells on siren went to a 24ish hr abyssea group with multiple people with different play hours, rather than having 48 to 64 people on at one given hour, which some used to have.

[nitsuj]

Flourish = blue? lol

Your sig is freaking me out.