why no mention of r/e/m

[pretre]

come on se most of your player base is waiting to hear about r/e/m weapons, most of us are not bothered about new content till r/e/m issue is fixed as it is a deal breaker. kinda seems like you just hoping the issue will go away or we will get used to delve weapons and forget about the weapons that took some of us years to get. I just read the version update post and as you can tell I am really disappointed, how don't you realise there is a huge issue you need to deal with before moving on. please fix it or give us the info we been waiting for since delve weapons released, people just gunna get more and more upset the longer you wait to fix or give us stats. sorry to cry but me and most of game don't want to wait 3 more months to even get info on r/e/m weapons, we waited long enough

[Draylo]

They aren't going to release updated R/E/M weapons when there are new weapons coming from the additional Delve mega bosses. You need to wait longer.

[pretre]

waited long enough considering its an issue that shouldn't be

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

FFS, we just got word from on high that RME will no longer be the best weapons in the game. Whatever the stats will be, they will be superseded, and permanently at that. All that's left to hear is whatever your consolation prize will be (e.g. unlocked weapon skills).

Whatever the stats will be, rest assured that they will only satisfy you for 2-3 months at best. Ragequit now and spare the rest of us your attempts to speak for "most of the player base."

[Rekin]

FFS, we just got word from on high that RME will no longer be the best weapons in the game. Whatever the stats will be, they will be superseded, and permanently at that. All that's left to hear is whatever your consolation prize will be (e.g. unlocked weapon skills).

Whatever the stats will be, rest assured that they will only satisfy you for 2-3 months at best. Ragequit now and spare the rest of us your attempts to speak for "most of the player base."

Already did. Kthx.

[pretre]

if they released the stats then people could make there ragequit decision. u say r/e/m not gunna compare but the stats they released for sword shows relic sword only a few dmg less than delve boss sword, so with double dmg proc relic will win. WE NEED INFO!!!!
and yes 75% of people I speak too really care about r/e/m issue u can tell by all the were upset about r/e/m posts, so maybe most the playerbase think same as me an your one of the only people that doesn't care

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

u say r/e/m not gunna compare but the stats they released for sword shows relic sword only a few dmg less than delve boss sword, so with double dmg proc relic will win. WE NEED INFO!!!!

Your info:


Boost equipment variation vertically
This is the current plan.
Add equipment that surpasses relics, mythics, and empyrean.

You have your answer.

[pretre]

Excalibur dmg 121 att 60 acc 20 that sword is better than delve boss sword. so as there is contradicting info I would like it to get cleared up.

[Twille]

Excalibur dmg 121 att 60 acc 20 that sword is better than delve boss sword. so as there is contradicting info I would like it to get cleared up.

You're assuming the current Delve Boss Sword is the only high-damage sword they plan on adding, which I highly doubt is the case. More weapons/equipment will be added that will surpass what we have now. R/E/M will be overshadowed, the quote from Camate says it all.

Edit:spelling

[Tamoa]

So they're planning on letting us upgrade R/E/Ms to be on par with current Delve weapons. But before this is actually implemented, they are going to add new weapons that are even stronger? Somebody please tell me I'm wrong here...

[Demon6324236]

So they're planning on letting us upgrade R/E/Ms to be on par with current Delve weapons. But before this is actually implemented, they are going to add new weapons that are even stronger? Somebody please tell me I'm wrong here...
Why not increase the level cap?
To be extremely frank, increasing the level cap was never an option.

So then what were our options?

Below are the two plans:


Expand equipment variation laterally
This would be preserving the original style of the game up until now.
Keeping relics, mythics, and empyreans at the top, add gear that can be used depending on the situation without creating higher tiers of equipment. No changes to the level 99 cap.


Boost equipment variation vertically
This is the current plan.
Add equipment that surpasses relics, mythics, and empyrean. Player level cap of 99 remains unchanged, but growth takes place via equipment.
You have your answer.

[Tamoa]

Yeah I know... I was just hoping there was something I missed somewhere.

You know, I think I can safely say I have never seen so many people being angry, pessimistic and without much hope for the future of this game as I see now.

[Nebo]

Yeah I know... I was just hoping there was something I missed somewhere.

You know, I think I can safely say I have never seen so many people being angry, pessimistic and without much hope for the future of this game as I see now.

There are a lot of reasons for that.

The decision to surpass R/E/Ms should have never seen the light of day. Most of us will quit over that alone (I'm planning to cancel my accounts).

This dev team is a dangerous combination of overworked, under resourced, inexperienced and incompetent. We get Mog Gardens instead of job adjustments. We get seasonal events instead of the new 1 hour abilities...or new avatars....or new UI...or new merit points categories...or one handed adjustments...or anything.


We get gimmicks and fluff. Not things that are meaningful to game play. The game needs cancer treatments and they are giving it a cute haircut.

They have no ability to prioritize development work that needs to happen. We get item level adjustments to determine Exp gain at 99....LOL...stupid ass mog gardens that are of no use to anyone (and how long have they been working on that. YES...now I can HELM in PRIVATE).

There is nothing in this update notes I saw that interests me in the slightest. A couple of things pissed me off. And the lack of inclusion of the 1 hand update, JA timers separate and others...

I'm done. I'm not paying full service fees for service that I'm not getting.

Shame on you, Square Enix, for allowing this to happen to FFXI. Shame on you for putting it in the hands of unqualified developers and producers. Shame on you for killing the game that so many of your fans loved.

[Luscia]

Yeah I know... I was just hoping there was something I missed somewhere.

You know, I think I can safely say I have never seen so many people being angry, pessimistic and without much hope for the future of this game as I see now.

This right here. SE, WTF is wrong with you? Clearly you have pissed off a good portion of your player base and you are doing NOTHING to explain yourselves. The RME issue is a major make or break thing and from what I am seeing you broke it. You say you will revamp the dmg, but also say that the current plan is to make weapons that go beyond these. I understand you may want to cater to the average Joe playing this game who can't get an RME, but some of us have spent YEARS making these weapons and they deserve to be the best in the game. Delve is a nice alternative since most have access, but they shouldn't be the best. Are you hoping we'll just except it and move on? Does it look like we'll except it and move on? Hell no!

The current plan for the upcoming update is awful; we players have asked quite a few times about RMEs, new 1hrs, and new avatars. But no info is ever given; EVER. You're all so tight lipped it's pointless to say; "Here's some news on ___" and all you say tells us pretty much nothing. Instead you give us the Mog Gardens and where as they look pretty, how much use do you really see this getting? I mean really. We'll probably all go out there for a day, make the servers lag or even crash and then forget it even existed. You all have been promising us stuff like the few mentioned above for months, if not a year; and you have shown NOTHING. We saw one little video of Cait Sith and all she did was whack a mob, no BPs, no nothing. You told us the ideas of the 1hrs; what they were and what they'd possibly do; but then nothing. And now the run around the RMEs.

I understand adding content to the expansion, but honestly there should have been more of it at launch. The game has a lot of problems and right now you all can't seem to stop the bleeding. If RMEs are to no longer be the top weapons than you have truly killed the game for a lot of people; it almost seems like you want this to die off so we will all move onto 14 and you can put everyone onto it.

[Shirai]

it almost seems like you want this to die off so we will all move onto 14 and you can put everyone onto it.

By the way this game is going now I won't even be touching 14.
Because no matter how good it is, even that game will eventually get the same treatment and leave many long term dedicated players demotivated and disappointed as soon as their next gen MMO is being developed.

For now, my own accounts will be canceled after the July bonanza and reactivation completely depends on the path SE decides to take with this game.

[Tamoa]

For now, my own accounts will be canceled after the July bonanza and reactivation completely depends on the path SE decides to take with this game.

Same here Shirai, I'll be cancelling before next billing cycle which is in about 27 days for me. Makes me so sad...

[Sapphires]

i'm pretty much just staying subbed and logging in to finish my assault journals for my mythic lately.
If anything has ever made me feel like I underwent an epic journey with friends in ffxi and 'beat ffxi' it was doing the entire ToAU expansion and making a mythic.

In contrast with SoA, everyone on multiple servers is just buying Delve megaboss wins, whats the point of endgame now?
I don't see why R/M/E have to take a backseat to megaboss weapons that people put zero effort into (dropping 20-30mil on leeching a win).

I at least had respect for Ragnarok bandwagoners because they had to put in more work for their weapon than the guy with lots of gil and no skill that buys a Senbaak Nagan in jeuno out of a bazaar.

Longterm goals were good for this game and subscriptions, SoA completely lacks any kind of long term goals that will keep people playing like the lengthy R/M/E building process. This 'gotta have it now' era with buying megaboss wins and plasm grind is a shortsighted design plan for this game.

[Trisscar]

So they're planning on letting us upgrade R/E/Ms to be on par with current Delve weapons. But before this is actually implemented, they are going to add new weapons that are even stronger? Somebody please tell me I'm wrong here...

There is also the problem of getting currencies to upgrade Empyreans, which only come from Logwatch. Have Squaresuck said anything about adding those currencies to other events yet?

[tyrantsyn]

The adjustment is bulshit, they could have already done it. Their purposely stahling to force the player base to adapt and get into the new content. The longer it takes, the more people grind to get back on top. The more revenue it'll generate. Apparently they're willing to risk alienating a few players for this. The only way to show them their wrong is to un~subscribe til the problem is fixed.
Personally I'm torn over the whole thing. I have a whole set a friends I love getting together with and doing content. And having to leave them high and dry to make a point to SE really angers me. I know the simple answer is to just do the content and get a delve weapon. BUt that doesn't take away the fact that I'm still pisst that a weapon that took me 2 years to complete just got trump by a base weapon :/

[Luscia]

For now, my own accounts will be canceled after the July bonanza and reactivation completely depends on the path SE decides to take with this game.

My thoughts exactly.

[FrankReynolds]

It sounds like they may have changed their minds and decided to keep RME relevant after all. This is getting ridiculous.

[pretre]

I don't understand what there thinking, it seems they want all warriors to look exactly the same same weapons same gear. the reason I loved this game so much is if you took 10 people on same job there would be atleast 5 diff versions of it and as for the r/e/m issue that's the biggest load of **$"*** iv ever heard. they given no reason at all y r/e/m cant stay on top or on par with new weapons, y add 1 new endgame that erases 3 others. I like delve but there is no reason at all that r/e/m cant hold there status. I have bravura 99 im still doing delve greatsword dagger and axe, well im doing these weapons until they release r/e/m ruining weapons. maybe someone from dev team should play the game. I think there hugely underestimating the problem of people quiting due to r/e/m issue

[Yinnyth]

I don't understand what there thinking, it seems they want all warriors to look exactly the same same weapons same gear. the reason I loved this game so much is if you took 10 people on same job there would be atleast 5 diff versions of it and as for the r/e/m issue that's the biggest load of **$"*** iv ever heard. they given no reason at all y r/e/m cant stay on top or on par with new weapons, y add 1 new endgame that erases 3 others. I like delve but there is no reason at all that r/e/m cant hold there status. I have bravura 99 im still doing delve greatsword dagger and axe, well im doing these weapons until they release r/e/m ruining weapons. maybe someone from dev team should play the game. I think there hugely underestimating the problem of people quiting due to r/e/m issue

If RME stayed on top, don't you think everyone would be using the exact same weapon anyways? Before SoA, everyone with the means to acquire one was going after ragnarok. Every monk used verethragna. Every corsair used armageddon. All the ToM staves look exactly the same, but most mages were too lazy to grind those out anyways, so every mage uses chatoyant. I really don't think visual variation has gotten any worse since SoA.

[pretre]

na I disagree I use bravura as do allot of people but most use ukon an the lucky ones use mythic and people with not enough time on this game use woe or trial great axes such as str or vit trial. there is a huge variation in weapons at the moment, yes people will gravitate to the highest damage weapons but only the people that have time to do them. with the system they want to use there is no variation at all

[Psubond]

is it REALLY that hard to type out the word why instead of just using the letter y? after all the time gil i have spent on the relics i have my decision to keep at the game will hinge on how they handle this. lose me lose 3 accounts and i'm sure there are plenty like me.

[FrankReynolds]

If RME stayed on top, don't you think everyone would be using the exact same weapon anyways?

No. Look at what you just said. You named three weapons that more or less happily coexisted for a long time and in the same sentence implied that there can only be one good weapon. Think about it. If there can be three, there can be 4, 5,6, ~.

Opening up some of the better weapon skills through WOE and possibly allowing more merits in the WS category would allow them to add a broad range of weapons that could at least be close enough to each other to allow for numerous options not just from endgame, but even AH type things. It's really not that hard to do. They have just created barriers for themselves.

[pretre]

is it REALLY that hard to type out the word why instead of just using the letter y? after all the time gil i have spent on the relics i have my decision to keep at the game will hinge on how they handle this. lose me lose 3 accounts and i'm sure there are plenty like me.

I agree and disagree, I think lots and lots of people will decide to quit or not on how the r/e/m issue will be handled, I think most of those are only still paying for this game because the are just hoping the dev team will see sense even though they said r/e/m not gunna be on top, we just gunna quit once they ruined them on the game not just the forum.
also I think its very hard to type the full words, y u pickin on my grammers? ;)

[Secondplanet]

While everyone complains about the majority of players having RME and being upset about it not always being the best is confusing to me, i see more people without then with so how can it be such a large scale playerbase problem?

Personally there are so many more issue's to be addressed then to appease the small amount player base who demands a one time effort for always the best.

[SNK]

also I think its very hard to type the full words, y u pickin on my grammers? ;)

No it's not. That's just an excuse for being lazy.

[pretre]

No it's not. That's just an excuse for being lazy.

i r not being lazy,y u not understand i r in a huge rush ;)

[Yinnyth]

No. Look at what you just said. You named three weapons that more or less happily coexisted for a long time and in the same sentence implied that there can only be one good weapon.

You're claiming that RME happily coexisted together, and any of the 3 are just as strong as any other one? My best friend ingame has a 99 bravura and has been turned down in over a dozen parties because the 99 bravura was not a 90 ukon. How many dragoons strive towards gungnir instead of ryunohige? Who in their right mind would make a gambanteinn for their whm instead of yagrush? Redemption or ragnarok? Kikoku or kannagi? Farsha or guttler? Claustrum or chatoyant staff?

There is ALWAYS a best. It fluctuates with time and circumstance, but there is always one that is on top, and everyone strives to be the best. Everyone wants a delve megaboss weapon right now, but not everyone has the means to obtain one. Not everyone has the means to obtain even a normal delve weapon. So right now, we have reached a point in the game where weapon diversity is at a peak. It will eventually level out as everyone learns how to kill megabosses, but hopefully by that time, we'll have new gear to strive towards, and the climb continues.

[Demon6324236]

There is always a best, the thing is, those were often close to one another at the same level. People not taking a Bravura because its not an Ukon is simply being picky, its like if I said I would not take a Apoc DRK because they were not a Rag DRK, the level of power is not far off, and it has Accuracy, Apoc has Haste while Bravura has DT as an advantage.

[Yinnyth]

There is always a best, the thing is, those were often close to one another at the same level. People not taking a Bravura because its not an Ukon is simply being picky, its like if I said I would not take a Apoc DRK because they were not a Rag DRK, the level of power is not far off, and it has Accuracy, Apoc has Haste while Bravura has DT as an advantage.

So what you're saying is you prefer "flavor of the month" to "Flavor of the Month"? People got ragnarok because of resolution. Before resolution, ragnarok was crap. People got verethragna because crit WSs were where it was at. But if enough monsters with crit resist were introduced, verethragna would be poop and people would want spharai instead. Keep in mind, this is all before SoA. Conditions in the game would change, then a new weapon becomes the flavor of the month because it handles those conditions better than any other weapon.

What we have now instead of RMEs (which not everyone can obtain yet) is delve megaboss weapons (which not everyone can obtain yet). We also have normal delve weapons (which most, but not all people are willing to obtain) instead of 99 magian weapons (which most, but not all people are willing to obtain). We also have skirmish weapons (for people trying to get up to the point where they can get delve weapons), instead of.............................. nothing. We also have bayld gear (for people trying to get up to the point where they can get skirmish, naakual, or delve gear), instead of.... nothing again. We also have every other freaking piece of gear which has ever existed. And you're trying to tell me weapon variety has decreased? On what grounds?

[FrankReynolds]

You're claiming that RME happily coexisted together, and any of the 3 are just as strong as any other one?

No, but they were close enough. Some should have been better at certain things. The mage ones more or less suck, but other than that, they were all good enough to beat any content up until maybe legion? Look how popular that was.


There is ALWAYS a best. It fluctuates with time and circumstance, but there is always one that is on top, and everyone strives to be the best. Everyone wants a delve megaboss weapon right now, but not everyone has the means to obtain one. Not everyone has the means to obtain even a normal delve weapon. So right now, we have reached a point in the game where weapon diversity is at a peak. It will eventually level out as everyone learns how to kill megabosses, but hopefully by that time, we'll have new gear to strive towards, and the climb continues.


Sounds like something a rich idiot would say to a poor person. "Diversity".

[Demon6324236]

So what you're saying is you prefer "flavor of the month" to "Flavor of the Month"?What I am saying is they were close in worth, there was every reason for someone to get Ragnarok to cap out damage, there was also every reason for a DRK to make an Apoc for great survivability. There was veritiy between these two because they did different things for the job really. What do you think of the new Scythe? Huh? Please tell me, because to me, it seems that its trash. To me, it looks like the GS is all that matters for DRK atm. What about WAR? The only thing for WAR is Bloodbath or Razor, what was it like before? Ragnarok for non Crit, Ukon for Crit, Bravura for Defense, oh look, verity, changes, not everyone being the exact same way in every single event. There was a reason to make one weapon over another, but most had a reason to be made, now, all of it is a single weapon at the top, no utility weapons up there, utility weapons are all half DMG, worthless and wasted by compare.

[Phafi]

RME doesn't NEED to be the top of the food chain, they should be usable weapons, but if they are the top which cannot be adjusted, there will only ever be side grades for 90% of future equipment. Personally, I'd rather have future equipment minimize the amount of things I carry to play certain jobs like RDM, SCH, BLU and PLD as they're all 78/80 in gear alone at the moment.

[Demon6324236]

RME does need to be the top, because they all take much longer than any other thing in the game. Why would someone go out to get a RME when they can get another weapon much faster or easier that is tied or better than them? Side grades in gear can be sidestepped by making gear that's actually good, putting more stats on single pieces to condense them down and make our inventories lighter. These things can be done to keep rewards relevant if they only did it, but to simply make weapons better than RMEs when they take so long is not acceptable, its the reason why half the Mythics are only made by the most die hard of people. Did you know that only Kincard and 1 other person have a Nagi listed on AH.com? You know why? Worthless weapon, always has been, probably will always be, and yet, they made it because of a love for the job probably, outside of that, its trash, and that's how all RME would become if they were not the top.

[Zumi]

Well they said it wouldn't be in the next update for sure. People forgetting that. I am guessing they are waiting till the next tier of weapons that surpass delve boss weapons to be out, to adjust them because as it stands now if they were planing the change to weapons to similar to what Excalibur is they would already pass delve boss weapons and give people not much reason to do them.

[pretre]

it makes sense to put rem weapons at the top because it keeps 4 diff end games active which would die otherwise (VW dyna abys salvage) people will still go for delve weapons too and spend there time on rem for the jobs they always wanted pimped

[Daemon]

Seriously you guys, Adoulin expansion has NOT been out that long. You can't expect them to be super computer robot programmers, designers, debuggers, testers, storyline writers, music composition, copyright, concept artist, And so many other roles that go behind to creating a game to keep up with everyone's complaints and demand. Yeah I know, We love our REM. but they are human beings just like the rest of us. Damn I dropped out of programming C+ the first week because there's just so much behind coding that you can't expect them to do everything in such a short time.

Now keeping us waiting to implement something like Haste 2 for almost a year now that's something reasonable to argue about.

[FrankReynolds]

Seriously you guys, Adoulin expansion has NOT been out that long. You can't expect them to be super computer robot programmers, designers, debuggers, testers, storyline writers, music composition, copyright, concept artist, And so many other roles that go behind to creating a game to keep up with everyone's complaints and demand. Yeah I know, We love our REM. but they are human beings just like the rest of us. Damn I dropped out of programming C+ the first week because there's just so much behind coding that you can't expect them to do everything in such a short time.

Now keeping us waiting to implement something like Haste 2 for almost a year now that's something reasonable to argue about.

They were working on this expansion for a long time before it launched. People paid for it. It is way off from done. Selling a product and then delivering it in parts is pretty shady business.

[Oddwaffle]

I don't really care if its coding, plastic surgery or selling burgers, if you start taking people's money then you better well deserve it. If you are selling a product then you better make sure you are selling the things your buyers want. If you don't think your buyers will like your products then sell them to someone else. That's what it means to be in business.

RME at lv99 takes a lot of time and effort to build. I have seen people spending years building a relic only to lv95. I don't care if that triple-box guy can do that in less than couple weeks but to the guy spending years building his relic, it's A LOT OF EFFORT AND DEDICATION. SE just jumped out and say "all your efforts are worthless now, you can get something better in 45min with a bit of luck". How about just lower everyone's level to lv1 and erase all their items then make new and 'better' items that are easier to get? Wouldn't it be awesome? Aren't you excited about the better gear and items that are easier to make? Or will you just feel like you were slapped in the face and you're better off playing something else?

[Phafi]

RME does need to be the top, because they all take much longer than any other thing in the game. Why would someone go out to get a RME when they can get another weapon much faster or easier that is tied or better than them? Side grades in gear can be sidestepped by making gear that's actually good, putting more stats on single pieces to condense them down and make our inventories lighter. These things can be done to keep rewards relevant if they only did it, but to simply make weapons better than RMEs when they take so long is not acceptable, its the reason why half the Mythics are only made by the most die hard of people. Did you know that only Kincard and 1 other person have a Nagi listed on AH.com? You know why? Worthless weapon, always has been, probably will always be, and yet, they made it because of a love for the job probably, outside of that, its trash, and that's how all RME would become if they were not the top.

what's to say that the requirements won't get easier for them once they come out with something that takes roughly as long as a mythic to make? Also, it will kind of only be front line Mythics, emps and non utility relics (ragnawagon, etc) that will be usurped. if you think there's something that can replace a yagrush or carnwenhan, kenkonken burtgang or any other utility weapon i'm forgetting, please, do tell.

[Demon6324236]

what's to say that the requirements won't get easier for them once they come out with something that takes roughly as long as a mythic to make? Also, it will kind of only be front line Mythics, emps and non utility relics (ragnawagon, etc) that will be usurped. if you think there's something that can replace a yagrush or carnwenhan, kenkonken burtgang or any other utility weapon i'm forgetting, please, do tell.Some can not be, others can, I have seen very few Apocs for instance as of late, Bravura is dead, Liberator is now something you swap in for before a fight if anything because unlike before, DPS just cant keep up even with its AM3 fulltimed. This things go on. You mention mage RMEs mostly, as well as KKK and Burtgang, I am assuming you mean KKK's effects on overheating, great, but that's a very expensive piece for just that 1 effect, which you would only really use with soloing with your pet, since you would be crashing your damage beyond any reasonable gain by using them instead of Rigors. Burtgang is for a job which does not DD anyways, so just like the mage ones, yes, it stays relevant.

If they made a new Adoulin version of a Mythic, called a superduper weapon, they made you have to do all of the Adoulin content, an item worth 1,000,000 Plasm, 100,000 Fragments from Skirmish, all Delve KIs and WK KIs before you can start the quest, as well as doing the full mission line. Then getting 1,000,000 Rank points worth of Airlixirs turned in, and so on. Do you know what would happen? People would be ok! These weapons would take forever to get, they would be harder, more effort worthy, and it would feel like they deserve it. Would every person in Adoulin have one of these? Hell no, it would be rare, like a Mythic, but we are in Adoulin now and we are farming Adoulin now so its easier, like when ToAU mattered. We would no longer talk about RME weapons, it would be RMES weapons, Relic, Emp, Mythic, and Superduper weapons, and that would be how it happened, incorporated by players because of its difficulty and power.

Do you see the difference between that and what happened now or what you were saying before? This would place another hard to get weapon in the game up there with them, even if it beat them, it would still be fine if they made it hard enough. Delve weapons, easy by compare... Boss weapons, they are not really hard, they are not time taking, yes, they require a good group of people, quite a large group, but they are not close to RMEs by compare. So in the end, I think that your idea would be fine, a new Mythic for jobs would be cool from Adoulin, so far as the utility ones, some were gone, others weren't, most of the ones that stayed are there because the job in question does not need TP or to engage the enemy, any that are on a job that does, screwed.

[Phafi]

you mentioned apoc and bravura, these weapons probably would be used if they were within a few points of the cap.

for example an item level 115 bravura (put its base damage maybe 8 higher than bloodbath) vs an item level 120(guessing that's what it is?) razorfury.
but as it stands now, we're comparing level 95-99 weapons against item level 113 or 120 weapons which is a significantly higher change in power than a post update against current content. I would expect the RMEs to be around item level 120-125 to be on par with delve round 2 assuming they come in at item level 125 which could keep them relevant for a bit at least, but not forever.

[Peepiopi]

My opinion is that weapons that take ridiculously long times to get should be cool, but not necessary for progression. I think that the developers sort of have that opinion too, and it's the right decision. Doing things that way is an inhibitor to new players, which is more damaging to the future of the game than catering to a few diehards.

I'm an older player just coming back to the game. I never bothered with the R/M/E weapons because it's not worth spending years doing. Delve is doable with Skirmish weapons which are just as good as RME when upgraded. But it seems to me that shouters require RME DDs really more because of status. "I put the time into getting these weapons, so I'm only allowing people with RMEs" sort of thing.

I think the RMEs shouldn't get upgraded any further, and just let them be trophies. I think they should keep the focus on the new content, and the new content only. The progression should be completely focused within SoA content, and they can't encourage that by incentivizing old content. They have to make the current content simple to progress, and the endgame items need to be challenging enough to earn, but not take unreasonably long to earn.

[Oddwaffle]

@Peepiopi: REM as trophies? As in put in your mog house and look pretty trophies? Or wear around in town? Or something like a title? There is a reason why you don't see people getting REM a lot. It's not because it's a 'trophies' it's because it takes a long time to get. It's like leveling your favorite job back in the day when you only get 4k exp an hour. Would you level a job to lv99 soloing for 2k exp an hour for years so you can wear a piece of armor in town and never use it again? Do you really mind if all your job levels get reset to lv1, lose all your gil and items and you get a "trophy" in your mog house for being such a high level character? In fact, I think this is a great idea. Reset everyone level to lv1 and erase their items and gils. Everyone start out fresh and certainly no more REM or picky shouts. Let's see how many people will be playing FFXI.

You said it yourself "It's not worth the effort" - that means it takes A LOT of effort to make. So much that those who actually put the effort in deserve the reward. There is a reason why you work for every piece of your equipment. You don't want that piece of equipment becoming useless. Maybe a single piece of equipment doesn't make you feel really bad but imagine everything you have worked for all became something unless and only to be put in mog house.

People didn't shout REM cause of status. You haven't think through this point clearly. Since REM takes a lot of dedication to make, people with REM on their jobs will tend to be better equipped and skillful. This is not always true. I have seen a fair number of people with empy weapons and being pretty bad at what they do. However, I'm talking on average, a person who are better equipped tend to be better at doing their job than someone poorly equipped. If you have to pick a random unknown person who is critical for your party, would you pick a person who is well equipped or someone totally fresh? Sure you can try talking to them and you can get to know them but 1st glance like checking a resume then you will check their equipments.

[Demon6324236]

My opinion is that weapons that take ridiculously long times to get should be cool, but not necessary for progression. I think that the developers sort of have that opinion too, and it's the right decision. Doing things that way is an inhibitor to new players, which is more damaging to the future of the game than catering to a few diehards.Ok, listen, this is where people go wrong. There is no reason at all in the game right now that Delve requires Delve weapons, gear, or anything of the sort, it also does not require RME weapons. This is all done as a restriction by the players who lead parties, meaning, if people who do, in fact, make parties, do not want this restriction, then it will not be had. The content is not designed for RME weapons, it is players who shout for RME weapons only. I see Qilin shouts all the time asking for RMED only, do you know how easy Qilin is now? It dies in less than 2 minutes most of the time, its a stupid requirement. Upgrading RMEs is not them making them nessessary, its never been them doing that, its the players! If more people who do not care if people have them made parties, then no one would complain, but people never do that because they instantly realize the quality of their party is enhanced by bringing only those people.


I'm an older player just coming back to the game. I never bothered with the R/M/E weapons because it's not worth spending years doing.It does not take a year to make a RME weapon... If you are worthy of having one, which to me means you are moderately well geared for the job you will be using it on primarily as well as knowing how to play it, then it takes a few months at most.

An Emp takes a couple days for the Lottery pop NMs, meaning a total of maybe 40 hours, does this seem like a long time? Well sure, but in this time, play something else, watch something, do something else in your life, come back every 5 minutes to kill a random mob and go afk again. Its boring, but its easy. Sometimes you can team up with people doing the same trial, if so, awesome, alternate whos on watch, take a nap, watch a movie, goto work, walk your dog, whatever you want. VNMs are easy, get a friend or two with a DD & healer or if you can fill in one of those, do it, tada, you have yourself well on your way, might even find a party for these, sometimes large, sometimes small. Then comes Abyssea NMs, they drop +2s, any new or returning player needs these, some long time players need them too, even I do, so that's not to hard to get help for, but the quality might vary. Now, you have an Emp.

A Relic takes doing Dynamis, depending how well you do it, this can take between 2 months, and 6 months, of doing a 2 hour run every day, but its only 2 hours, if you have more time, get money, buy currency, you will walk away with a Relic even sooner. If you can not solo Dynamis on your job using /DNC or another appropriate subjob, you do not need or deserve the Relic so far as I am concerned, so you should not bother worrying about it, and should instead focus on getting geared and skilled at the job. If you are to stubborn to use the proper subjob, kindly remind yourself that everything has a time and place, Dynamis is the place where /DNC is the most relevant thing around for almost every job.

Mythics, I wont even write all of the work out for, yes, they take 5~6 months, ignore them if you want, they are already trophies for the most part.


Delve is doable with Skirmish weapons which are just as good as RME when upgraded. But it seems to me that shouters require RME DDs really more because of status. "I put the time into getting these weapons, so I'm only allowing people with RMEs" sort of thing.Its because of the level of damage they output. Even if Skirmish weapons are the same, they are augmented, and very few people do Skirmish, its the same reason why many people used to exclude Mythics, no one had them. If they removed RME weapons completely what do you think people would shout for now that Delve was 'fixed'? Delve weapons only, ignoring those who did not get in first, and guess what, right now, it would work, because it already does, I see enough people ignore RME weapons right now in Delve to prove it.


I think the RMEs shouldn't get upgraded any further, and just let them be trophies. I think they should keep the focus on the new content, and the new content only. The progression should be completely focused within SoA content, and they can't encourage that by incentivizing old content.So abandon the last 10 years worth of game, and focus only on what is new and being worked on now, that sounds brilliant.


They have to make the current content simple to progress, and the endgame items need to be challenging enough to earn, but not take unreasonably long to earn.I agree, they do need to be challenging rather than time taking, sadly, that does not work with this player base because we do whatever we can to win, like stun-locking and such, so content is never really 'hard' more that its annoying and broken without exploiting certain abilities.

[Phafi]

Ok, listen, this is where people go wrong. There is no reason at all in the game right now that Delve requires Delve weapons, gear, or anything of the sort, it also does not require RME weapons.

plasm farming*

[Demon6324236]

plasm farming*NMs don't either, they just require a good coordinated party, something which should be expected from the content meant to be the 3 hardest pieces of content in the game (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34679-Item-Levels?p=445881&viewfull=1#post445881) as of right now when you think about it. Again, if you go only by shouts which include this, you are only seeing people who want only that, it does not mean that it can only be done with that. If you want to do it but leaders will not let you join, shout for it yourself, I have had to do it in the past myself, hated it, but it gets the job done, and everyone who is like you will be grateful for it if you let them join, if not, can you say your any better?

[Fynlar]

Ok, listen, this is where people go wrong. There is no reason at all in the game right now that Delve requires Delve weapons, gear, or anything of the sort, it also does not require RME weapons.

Bottom line, most groups without awesome weaponry like that are going to fail at killing most of these NMs. People would rather not waste their time with that.

[Peepiopi]

Bottom line, most groups without awesome weaponry like that are going to fail at killing most of these NMs. People would rather not waste their time with that.

Bottom-line is there is bottom line lol. People will rage on until they get what they want. RMEs are time-sinks, and they hardly require "skill". So it's silly to make the excuse that requiring RMEs is only a requirement as a "skillcheck". Delve content is doable through regular SoA progression which is going to get easier with the July update. So all requiring RMEs does is restrict the content to a few diehards, which is bad for the game.

A company that caters to a few diehard's demands is going to fail. They make more money off of casual players. More money generally means better development and better maintenance.

[Oddwaffle]

@Peepiopi: I know of casual players who play regularly for about 3 hours a day. They are as casual as your average Joe and Jane. They worked hard for their relic weapon. I have seen a guy who logged on for a couple hours a day and shout for Assault/Salvage so he can get his mythic weapon. Are these the 'die hard'? Or are they just diligence people who just want to accomplish something with the small amount of time they have to play?

There are lots of reasons why these people aren't playing like you or probably a fair number of other 'hardcore' players. Time constraints or just no longer like the groupie groupie large LS events. I admit using REM for a skillcheck is insanely inaccurate but let me ask you this: do you have a better idea for checking a player? Or are you just ranting about how bad it is. How do you know how 'skillful' a person is when you 1st meet them? I can tell you this, people use the 1st page of a resume as a 'skill check' but both you and I know that piece of paper is not the representation of the whole person. It's still being used anyways. Right now, it's the same: Delve weapon or you're not getting invited as a DD. Tell me how's that different than REM other than the fact that Delve weapon can be obtained must quicker?

Smart business carters to every single one of their customers. From diehard fans, hardcore triple-boxers to regular guy who plays everyday. Even that guy who doesn't talk to anyone and only solo. Even the guy who does nothing but craft all day long. You cut a piece of your customer base away, you will lose that piece. Your customer base will shrink. Also, FFXI is shrinking. It can not afford to continue cutting away its own customers.

Of course, you are always facing lack of resources to keep everyone happy. You can do a bit of everything or focus on one thing. However, what you don't want to do is alienate your customers. You don't want to have people climb up a ladder and kick it.

[Peepiopi]

@Peepiopi: I know of casual players ... [insert long post]

I think you missed my point. I'm not ranting about anything. I'm saying it's silly to rant about SEs decision to put more focus on delve gear and SoA progression rather than continuing to make RME the primo weapons in the game. It does not make sense to keep incentivizing the procurement of older gear for anything more than personal trophies. Doing so prevents players from concentrating on the new content they just came out with. It makes more sense to make Skirmish/Delve more appealing.

Pretty soon, more and more people are going to have the skirmish/delve weapons. As that happens, RME weapons are going to become less and less relevent. People are just going to have to deal with that. That's how MMOs work. Old gear gets old. If you're willing to quit over that, then go for it. Maybe it's about time that you quit.

[Demon6324236]

That's how MMOs work. Old gear gets old.If it were any other gear you would see no complaints, but show me another MMO with weapons that take this much work, this much of the population has, and then they were outdated in 1 update, after multiple years of keeping them at the top. Show me that, and show me the player base who accepted that as a good thing, or some expected occurrence. I would love to see it.

[Tamoa]

I think you missed my point. I'm not ranting about anything. I'm saying it's silly to rant about SEs decision to put more focus on delve gear and SoA progression rather than continuing to make RME the primo weapons in the game. It does not make sense to keep incentivizing the procurement of older gear for anything more than personal trophies. Doing so prevents players from concentrating on the new content they just came out with. It makes more sense to make Skirmish/Delve more appealing.

No, it does NOT make sense to make R/E/Ms irrelevant. Not when the game is 11 years old and people have invested hours and hours of playtime and millions of gil into these weapons. And please do explain to me how keeping R/E/Ms relevant will prevent players from concentrating on new content? I would really like to know. Because as it is now, Delve is the ONLY thing that's relevant for the majority of players. I would much rather go through the stages to make a mythic (i.e. do nyzul, assaults, Einherjar and collect alexandrites) - at least it offers some variety instead of spamming plasm farm runs over and over and over until I'm bored out of my mind.



Pretty soon, more and more people are going to have the skirmish/delve weapons. As that happens, RME weapons are going to become less and less relevent. People are just going to have to deal with that. That's how MMOs work. Old gear gets old. If you're willing to quit over that, then go for it. Maybe it's about time that you quit.

Other MMOs might work like that, FFXI never did. And please don't bring up how 75 gear was made irrelevant when the level cap was raised. That's a different thing entirely - and even so, R/E/Ms were kept relevant through all that.

[Lotto]

I think you missed my point. I'm not ranting about anything. I'm saying it's silly to rant about SEs decision to put more focus on delve gear and SoA progression rather than continuing to make RME the primo weapons in the game. It does not make sense to keep incentivizing the procurement of older gear for anything more than personal trophies. Doing so prevents players from concentrating on the new content they just came out with. It makes more sense to make Skirmish/Delve more appealing.

So, for you it's normal to be able to get the best possible weapon in 45mins when you spent months and millions for something that became irrelevant in a single update? Maybe you should work on a REMs to understand how it feels.

With your logic why did they allow players to push their R/Ms to 99 ? They should have let them die at 75 and make us work on empyreans right?

[Peepiopi]

So, for you it's normal to be able to get the best possible weapon in 45mins when you spent months and millions for something that became irrelevant in a single update? Maybe you should work on a REMs to understand how it feels.

With your logic why did they allow players to push their R/Ms to 99 ? They should have let them die at 75 and make us work on empyreans right?

Well I wouldn't say that the BEST best gear should be available in 45 minutes overall. I think it should be a progression (through current game content) to get to the point where you can run the hardest raid to get the best drops. Then maybe if it takes you 45 minutes to a couple hours to clear the top raids/bosses to have a chance to get the drop you want, then you keep on running it until you get it. This would be something more in-line with other, more successful MMOs.

In regards to your second question, I do think it would have been better to leave R/M at 75. Reason being, it would put players' focus on current gear and content (then being empy gear). That's my same opinion for SoA. I think if more players had to focus on getting skirmish gear to complete delve rather than going back for RMEs, then there would be a richer volume of players in the new zones trying to earn their progression that way.

So I do think it was a mistake to allow those old items to be upgraded to 99 to keep them raid-worthy. And, I think that the current development team has similar ideas about this in this expansion, but maybe not to the same extent as me. I personally think that RME gear should not be the same ilvl as current SoA gear period. Not even skirmish, let alone delve.

[Tamoa]

You don't own a level 99 R/E/M, do you.

Also, the fact that you use the word "raid" speaks for itself.

[Peepiopi]

You don't own a level 99 R/E/M, do you.

Also, the fact that you use the word "raid" speaks for itself.

way to judge me for playing other games than ffxi. Maybe that explains your elitist perspective on RMEs. "Raid" as in large organized events to kill high level bosses to get high level gear. Sorry for not using lingo you're familiar with. No, I don't have an RME item because I don't want one. I didn't play much endgame content when the cap was 75, and I don't see the reason to get them now with the availability of SoA gear. If you think that invalids me, then you're just as bad as the people who inhibit other players from progressing just because they didn't do the same time-sink as them.

The fact that you didn't have a real rebuttal to my point means it must be valid enough for you, even if you still like your RMEs. Which is fair, but the gaming community overall has changed over the last 11 years. People don't want to have to burn months and months in old content just to get a "pass" to get better gear in a new raid. That's not very fun progression. They want quicker, more linear gear progression in fresh game content. Don't be upset when the developers decide to follow current industry demands in an effort to revitalize the game.

[Tamoa]

You're just as entitled as anyone else here to express your opinions on any topic brought up here. However, I find it to be true that the majority of those saying good riddance to R/M/Es, don't own one themselves, and I think it's safe to say the same people would indeed be upset too, if they had spent countless hours and millions of gil for nothing.


People don't want to have to burn months and months in old content just to get a "pass" to get better gear in a new raid. That's not very fun progression. They want quicker, more linear gear progression in fresh game content. Don't be upset when the developers decide to follow current industry demands in an effort to revitalize the game.

That explains why so many people are so angry on this and other FFXI forums because their weapons have been reduced to a mannequin piece, right? So angry that they have already quit or are on the verge of quitting, even. Doesn't sound like a good way to revitalize this game to me.

[Peepiopi]

That explains why so many people are so angry on this and other FFXI forums because their weapons have been reduced to a mannequin piece, right? So angry that they have already quit or are on the verge of quitting, even. Doesn't sound like a good way to revitalize this game to me.

That's just how progression works. For example, WOW has several legendary items that have come out over the years, as do other games. These items usually take the same level of time and commitment (if not more) than the RMEs (trust me, I've gotten some of these items in some oth/ler games. part of the reason why i'm not thrilled about undertaking those types of projects again). As the game progresses, and new content comes out, those items are not viable at end game anymore. However people still get them because they are rare accomplishments. Once people stop running that old content, the items become even more exclusive, which makes them cooler and more endearing.

Let's assume for a moment that SE decided to wait until SoA to raise the level cap to 99, then left the RMEs at maybe lvl 85 or something. People would still go after the cool top end delve gear, but keep their RMEs because of the coolness factor. The same thing would happen if they stopped upgrading the RMEs now, and decided to put full focus on SoA gear.

If that were to occur, then certainly some players who are attached to their RMEs might quit the game. But I can assure you that the number of people that would quit over that is far less than you think it would be. Vastly more players would just continue with the current content. In fact, if they make the new game content appealing enough, they can generate new subscribers even though the game is older.

[Fynlar]

No, I don't have an RME

You should probably stop talking about the subject then

[Direct]

You're claiming that RME happily coexisted together, and any of the 3 are just as strong as any other one? My best friend ingame has a 99 bravura and has been turned down in over a dozen parties because the 99 bravura was not a 90 ukon. How many dragoons strive towards gungnir instead of ryunohige? Who in their right mind would make a gambanteinn for their whm instead of yagrush? Redemption or ragnarok? Kikoku or kannagi? Farsha or guttler? Claustrum or chatoyant staff?

There is ALWAYS a best. It fluctuates with time and circumstance, but there is always one that is on top, and everyone strives to be the best. Everyone wants a delve megaboss weapon right now, but not everyone has the means to obtain one. Not everyone has the means to obtain even a normal delve weapon. So right now, we have reached a point in the game where weapon diversity is at a peak. It will eventually level out as everyone learns how to kill megabosses, but hopefully by that time, we'll have new gear to strive towards, and the climb continues.


Why 99 Bravura was ahead of 90 Ukon in pure dmg anyway, unless you ment to say 99 Ukon then i appologise.

At the issue at hand, se need to realise that people just won't stand for there rem to be outclassed and with 14 so close they better get it sorted.

[Kriegsgott]

Trolololololol lololol lololol
does it hurt? serously now....

[Peepiopi]

does it hurt? serously now....

Did you have a point to make? Your post doesn't even make sense.

[Peepiopi]

You should probably stop talking about the subject then

Oh.. Sorry. I didn't know I wasn't allowed to share my thoughts on the subject too. Didn't know this was your corner of the internet where you just complain about things like old men on rocking chairs.

[Demon6324236]

Did you have a point to make? Your post doesn't even make sense.We was speaking of your butthurt for not having a RME.

[Demon6324236]

Oh.. Sorry. I didn't know I wasn't allowed to share my thoughts on the subject too. Didn't know this was your corner of the internet where you just complain about things like old men on rocking chairs.Well you see, as your part of the community who has no RME, you are less effected by this than we are, greatly in fact. Might I ask how Delve is currently helping the player base? RMEs got out done and to me it seems like casual players got even more fucked over in this way than when RME weapons were always on top, so to me it seems like this solution screwed everyone. Yet you say you like it, so yeah, sorry if people do not like your opinion on things when not only do you lack a RME, but also are saying you like something that screwed people without high end weapons than before.

[Tamoa]

That's just how progression works.

In the 11 years this game has existed, that has NOT been how progression has worked. This isn't WoW or "another game". That's the whole point here, which you seem to miss by miles.



In fact, if they make the new game content appealing enough, they can generate new subscribers even though the game is older.

I pity anyone who's a newcomer in FFXI now. SoA and Delve made the gap between new players and veterans even wider than it was before.


Get back to me when you've made a weapon worth 170 mil gil in heavy metal plates and riftcinders because you really enjoy playing this one job and want it to be as well-geared as you can possibly make it, only to have SE tell you that your efforts - and the efforts of the people that helped you - have been made worthless less than 2 weeks later.

Not to mention mythics. Thank God I never started on Kogarasumaru.

[Kylos]

As a player who has played since 2004. Allow me to say the following things about this game.

You go through the game, you make friends, and you achieve pieces of equipment that end up being those trophy items you will cherish. You know they have become useless, but if you ever wanted to put those old dusty pieces on you just for old time sake, you can take them out of your slip and show your friends how cool you used to look.

Guaranteed though, these pieces of equipment may have taken a little bit of effort, but nothing like the effort you put into getting a R/M/E.

I remember being part of Dynamis Linkshells where full alliances of players across the world would unite to slay the evil beastmen and nightmare mobs in order to achieve their relic equipment, and even Relic weapons. I know a number of players who achieved Relic weapons by sponsoring runs and having their fellow adventurers give them the Dynamis Currency that they all earned as a team.

Now if you multiply the amount of linkshells that did that, across all servers, you can see already the amount of pure effort that some players put into making their Relics.

And then we get onto Mythics! Oh my lord! These beasty weapons are the demonspawn of Vana'Diel, only given to those absolute Aht Urhgan fanatics who just love to spam Salvage everyday. Then there's all the other extremely tedious tasks you have to do, that result in you achieving a weapon that make all other players look at you and think ... You are a God!

Oh, and then we get to those Empyreans. Just think of how many players died to that damn Glavoid hmm? What about those players who spanked Ig-Alima so many times that he should have a red bottom by now?

Empyreans are somewhat .. easy, if you dual box or can manage to trick some friends into wasting their time to get you a weapon you might use on the odd occasion. (Yes, I forced my father into helping me make a Redemption while he made Ukon.)

Even so, I remember getting my first ever Ultimate Weapon. It was a Redemption, shaped like a Colibri beak, but the effort I put into it, gave me such a lovely weapon skill that many other DRKs don't have. I felt a little ashamed of its damage, but I still love it all the same. Even after I made a Fulgurante (OAT GS), I still loved my little Empyrean weapon... because I earned it!

And then you know, after spending eight years on this game, I finally decided to build a Relic. I couldn't tell you how many times people would ask me if I had made a Relic yet, and I just never had the time to get round to it. I was determined this time, and with Dynamis the way it is in the modern era, I set out on the task to make as much gil as I could.

It took me a few months, on and off, but I scrimped and scraped like a snake. I found anyway possible to make gil in the short term so I could fund my relic. Then I even forced my dad and other LS members to come and get me the attestation and fragment. And then I did it! The day was here, I finally achieved my first ever Relic Weapon, the Ragnarok.

I loved it right away, I made it a mission to upgrade it, and before I knew it, it was at level 95! I was so happy, I felt like I had finally reached the top!

Then it happened ...

The following day, I came across the breaking news. I came across the rage. I came across the mountains of burning rubble that FFXI players had created in the horror of this breaking news. Delve Weapons were being introduced!

So.. that dream I followed, ever since I first stepped into a Dynamis zone, all the deaths, all the hours, all the jealousy over other dedicated players who sported relics. It was for nothing? It was just to make me feel special for a day?? So I could just take my freshly made Ragnarok and play with it a tiny bit? Til I get Bereaver?

Well that is what happened. Now I feel super special.. because that Ragnarok helped me to reach level 15 Bereaver in barely any time at all. You got to admit though ... the weapon looks very boring :( All of them do really, they look like something you would get at level 30 from the shop for 10k.

I guess I shall continue swinging this Bereaver, just hoping that the day will come. Maybe one day I will no longer hear cries from my freshly made Relic Weapon. It cries out to me every time I use my Bereaver. It doesn't want to gather dust, and I don't want it to gather dust ... but it's just sooo ... useless.

I am all for waiting. I can have patience. I just hope SE does the right thing in the end, after Seekers of Adoulins endgame has come to a stop ... they can finally get to rewarding those players who earned the respect by creating an R/M/E. Do not let all that hard work go down the drain. The players will respect that you respected their accomplished dreams in the end.

[Kimjongil]

My issue is delve weapons are nice. But they have no specific weapon skill. Why unlock a weapon skill and not being able to use always. With that weapon or any other. This is what I hated about WoTG campaign weapon skills. I feel you worked hard for it but you couldn't use it in all type campaign events or everywhere.

I do feel 99 REM's should unlock that weapon skill. And in most cases that weapon skill should be best for that weapon. But usable by the player with any weapon. The 99's can have a 40% bonus weapon skill on them like relics. WOE, fine they unlock the weapon skill as well, but its not upgraded 40% Similar to a 75 relic.

They can't just forget these and keep all the worked weapon skills locked. And by no means should a bought weapon with plasm be able to out do a 99 REM weapon skill itself. "Plasm "myrkr" staff vs Empy 99. same for whm club.

Lastly I don't how their is any verity of use. Take a look at Upheavel weapon skill. Drk could get it but not use any great axe from 87+. SE has done this with many jobs. Or like the new club, Geo cant use it with hexa strike.

What's the point of saying your job can use many weapons but SE only adding one job per weapon. War is an example of this. They can use most weapons but SE only gives them GA/Axe

More variety please.

[pretre]

to sum up, we all think se should keep r/e/m on top, unlock weapon skills with WOE weapons, and we all hate anyone that doesn't agree. FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT!!!!!!

[Kristal]

to sum up, we all think se should keep r/e/m on top, unlock weapon skills with WOE weapons, and we all hate anyone that doesn't agree. FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT!!!!!!

We don't ALL think R/M/E should be on top... they shouldn't be gold-plated trash like they are now either, but newer weapons should be able to surpass them if they are sufficiently difficult to obtain.

[Direct]

Rem should be the top of the chain right now, the 30k plasm delve weapons are a joke to make and you can farm one in a day, most good ls are now downing Tojil etc and are even selling the wins which you can get the new weapons from.

So how are these harder to get than a empyrean 99 again ?

[petezag]

If you read that statement about R/E/M weapons not being the best, it was more of a statement to explain their decision to boost levels by gear, not increase the level cap. They have changed their decision because R/E/M was never gonna be updated at first, until massive number of players quit. So just maybe ppl are getting uptight over nothing and it probably wasn't the best translation possable

[pretre]

We don't ALL think R/M/E should be on top... they shouldn't be gold-plated trash like they are now either, but newer weapons should be able to surpass them if they are sufficiently difficult to obtain.
I agree that new weapons should be equal to rem if there as time consuming as a rem to obtain, no one would have an issue with them introducing a 4th super weapon. and I really hope pete is right, an I will apologise to dev team for all my threads an posts if he is

[Babekeke]

Below is an example of the things we have been discussing:
Addition of battle content that can be undertaken by low-man parties or solo (+NPC)
The idea is something like an Adoulin version of Meeble Burrows.
Expansion of synthesis and other non-battle content
Continued adjustments to reives
Addition of solo-content that focuses on exploration instead of battle
Adjustments so that players’ efforts are more naturally tied to colonization
Revamps and enhancements to equipment
RMEC weapons, job specific equipment, etc.

They're still deciding if they're important enough updates.

[pretre]

personally I still think there holding off hoping we all jst get into delve weapons enough that we don't really care about rem weapons.

[Daemon]

personally I still think there holding off hoping we all jst get into delve weapons enough that we don't really care about rem weapons.

Dang... I was thinking that too... Word for word...

[pretre]

I find it difficult to play the game atm and this will prolly carry on till rem gets resolved one way or another, 2 of my 3 lses have totally fallen apart due to people quiting and some jumping to xiv, all this would be fixed if they would stop "discussing" REMs and make a decision already. i know they said its getting an upgrade but show us some numbers or give us a specific outline of the future of these weapons so people can make there quit or stay decision already, stop mentioning rem in middle of long ass post and give us a long ass post specifically on REMs, sorry to cry but was really hoping for info on the next post involving REMs an here we are with this word "discussing" again

[Babekeke]

Earliest you'll see an upgrade is September.

[pretre]

just the info would be nice

[MSTRLied]

Let me just say that I don't have a R/E/M (not for a lack of trying) I can regial you stories of how i paid people 500k to simply go on assault runs with me to get captain rank (I've only gotten up to lance corporal with one more assault till rank up) and i didn't even ask them to even participate just enter and afk if they wanted...(the feeding assaults got me good)
So yes i spent millions of gil, ive spent time aswell getting others up to the rank so they could join me on assaults so i can one day get captain.

Am i angry about delve weapons? no, is it jealousy or envy no... i still want a mythic and one day ill get one even if the servers get shut off, all be damned... it will happen.

But honestly delve weapons have done the one thing in the world that makes me happy and that's make CLIQS irrelevant. I mean honestly at some point this game should have been renamed to Cliq Fantasy XI.
InB4 your just angry your not in a cliq...
please note that the basic guide to obtaining R/E/M can be basically summed up to try to join or form a cliq, and in the process of joining a cliq (because that's the only way things get done) give the cliq leaders their R/E/M then watch them disappear when it's your turn.

But back to the point... Delve weapons although easier to obtain then R/E/M add the ability to obtain current usefull gear without having to run into "those" type of people.... not to mention there is the basic point following past traditions they will finally release R/E/M like weapon along the lines of , experimental equipment developed by the inventors coalition using the power found with in Adolin areas... then they would add unnecessary upgrades like; like start it at item lvl 100 then release upgrades to get it to 105-110-115-120 then eventually they will release stuff with item level of 140 base then increased so on... Very Little will change other then now casuals wont need to work cliqs to get 1 item... now it'll be have fun with friends without crying and begging them to come help you farm glavoid.

[Helldemon]

You realize you're post is all pointless, don't you? You talk having to join/form a cliq to get RME before for the upgrades over the other AH/Drop weapons but the same thing is happening now with megaboss weapons and guess what, megaboss weapons are leagues beyond the next best thing far far far far far far more then what RME and the next best thing used to be.

The situation is even worse now as there is a extremely noticeable difference between someone with Megaboss weapon and someone with a plasm weapon which could never be made up no matter how good your gear or skill in this game is. Back in the day, best drop/AH weapon if the person was good and geared well could outdo people of the same job with RME.

Back then, let's just say someone with RME vs the next best thing was somewhere around a 10-20% difference in damage depending on weapon and assuming both people are equally geared. Now the Difference between a megaboss weapon and the next best thing is more like 40-50% assuming equally geared.

[MSTRLied]

:/ the gap in effectiveness between delve weapons and megaboss weapons have no actual correlation to cliqs. Before delve weapons and such existed obtaining R/E/M was difficult not because the content was in itself hard... putting aside time consuming thanks to their wait one real life day rule. But because what you need was hard because there was a dependence on other players, no one wanted to help regardless if they were bored beyond belief simply because they got nothing out of it. Because of it people formed Scam cliqs or formed ls's got what they needed then disappeared (under the guise that people who helped where gonna get what they needed). Not to say everyone is like that they're after all various people who got lucky aka the ones who actually took years to make it.

When i say Delve gear removed the relevance of cliqs was that finally people had an equal opportunity to obtain items, not just the few who are selfish. Theres no lot battling for items that 16 people in your alliance are trying to obtain, or ls shaming for lotting on something that the ls leader or his core friends want on a whim, or think you don't deserve, or you want but they want to sell for gil. Everyone gets bayld, everyone gets plasma, everyone gets megaboss win... the only difference between someone without and someone with is that one had more time. (Especially since there isn't any staggering time constraint like assaults or dyna, speeding the overall process up while still maintaining difficulty)

You could argue its easy but lets be honest they're people getting owned as we speak not being able to kill these bosses, and there are some people beating them like cake walk.

Sure i can concede that there are people who are being elitist and wont invite you unless you have megaboss weapon and i can understand how this might lead you to think they are cliqs but in truth they are just elitist cliqs and guess what? partying with them isnt going to be prereq... we can just ignore them, no more kissing up to them, so u can help them get glavoid shells just so u can get the seals it drops.. then have them behave like they were doing you a favor.

Now to address the gap in effectiveness... Lets be serious... Content moving forward is going to be several times harder, since leveling up is out of the question gear that can equalize and make any new content doable has to far outclass previous items, unless you want everyone to do all the new high lvl content with stuff people got 4 years ago, or better yet have absolutely no equipment removing any real point in doing any content? not to mention severely limiting the possibilities ... the new item lvl system allows for more diversity and in the end is a sneaky ingenious method to add a bunch of new content or rather increase everyone's strength while technically being within the parameters of the original game (aka damn ps2 creeping up again)

Now this in and of itself is where the divide is mainly despite the fact this thread is dividing into multiple camps (the prominent ones being;
I think R/E/M should get a boost considering thier difficulty i don't want Megaboss lvl weapons but at least make em delve equivalent... that way they can have some use in new content while still having something else to strive for. Considering lore and the fact they are SIGNATURE weapons.... kinda

I think Delve Bayld weapons are the devil remove them immediately from my sight ... they have no point of existing blah blah blah this is no longer a game i used to enjoy playing 7 years ago rawr rawr rawr... I'm angry and if i wanted to play something new or different or refreshing id just go to a different game. Seeing the good in the new system are for noobs.
)

Personally I'd Prefer the first camp but at least SE should think at this point the requirements for said weapons should be reduced severely (If only for the base weapons aka... more alexindrite per pouch, increased currency drop rates, reduction of time limits like jp midnight?) Then again there's also the fact that we don't know what the JP players feel at the moment... everyone after all knows about japan hard.