Adoulin: Scrolls of Instant Protect

[OmnysValefor]

So I just noticed this scroll on the same vendor as the vendor for instant warp / rr.

I gambled 1000 bayld and popped one on my 99 paladin. It gave me 75 defense. The equivalent of a modern Protect 3.

Is this intentional? Protect 5 gives 175 defense (unmerited). Does the Shell scroll also give Tier 3~ magic protection?

Just a curiosity. Obviously not gamebreaking.

[Alhanelem]

1000 bayld is a bit high for protect III considering how easy the spell is to come by. The only way it would be useful to me is if the duration doesn't shorten when used on low level jobs.

[Demon6324236]

Either way, why would it be fair for people to do level 99 content for a spell useable by level 50s? Needs to be upgraded to Protect V, and in all honesty, the price should be lowered, to more like 100 or so, 1k is to high for something so easy.

[Umichi]

you get bayld in troves doing lair and colonization reives.... I suppose the reasoning imo is that well it's

1) an instant and uninterruptable spell
and
2) they don't want to devalue white mages going to events

just some thinking at least idm them but hey i will hardly use them as my main sub is whm :)

[Demon6324236]

I understand to a point, but at the same time the price for them makes it so I would never even think about using them, I don't do Reives enough to have the 1k to throw around whenever I need a Protect on my WAR.

[Umichi]

I do reives plenty enough to own 1k bayld... doing one to two imprint of almost any variety gives you 1k bayld also.

[Demon6324236]

So your ok with doing level 99 content for a scroll that gives you the same effect as you can get from any person with a level 47~50 WHM/SCH/PLD/RDM?

If nothing else they should at least increase the potency, I would rather a decrease in cost as well because I feel for the spell it is, one which many different jobs get, and the fact others of its type like Reraise & Warp are so much cheaper, means it is way overpriced.

[Kristal]

If you think that's bad, wait till you see the tinctures... 40k bayld

[Deifact]

The price should be reduced...

I'm guessing the idea was that it's a way for you to cast protect on yourself without having to use a mage subjob, and it does work to that degree. I don't think they should increase the tier, but just reduce the price, so it is more of a "well it's so cheap why not?" opposed to "give us scrolls of instant Cure V while you're at it!".

Instant scrolls should all be 100 (or is it 200?) of whatever currency (like instant-warp) simply for consistency. The Sanction boons are 100 too I think.

[Umichi]

So your ok with doing level 99 content for a scroll that gives you the same effect as you can get from any person with a level 47~50 WHM/SCH/PLD/RDM?

If nothing else they should at least increase the potency, I would rather a decrease in cost as well because I feel for the spell it is, one which many different jobs get, and the fact others of its type like Reraise & Warp are so much cheaper, means it is way overpriced.

actually yes because i sub whm alot so i hardly use them anyways.... if i wanted pro shell v i'd pay a whm for it...

[Umichi]

The price should be reduced...

I'm guessing the idea was that it's a way for you to cast protect on yourself without having to use a mage subjob, and it does work to that degree. I don't think they should increase the tier, but just reduce the price, so it is more of a "well it's so cheap why not?" opposed to "give us scrolls of instant Cure V while you're at it!".

Instant scrolls should all be 100 (or is it 200?) of whatever currency (like instant-warp) simply for consistency. The Sanction boons are 100 too I think.

insta warp is 10 point depending on where you get it... i think 1k is reasonable because again... i can do a 3 imprint run for almost 3-6k that's three-six scrolls.... worth it if you ask me...

[Renaissance2K]

I understand the logic behind capping the effect at Protect III levels (the highest you could get with a /WHM subjob). It's the same reason why the Warp Cudgel and similar items require Level 36 to use.

At the same time, I agree that 1000 bayld is way, way too high for such a limited effect. Either raise the potency and keep the price, or keep the potency and lower the price.

[Umichi]

but if people actually participated in rieves and imprints on a consistant basis you would find that you're rolling in bayld... most likely the only people who do find this expensive are investing their bayld into things such as wildskeeper rieves..

[Renaissance2K]

$100 for a Milky Way is overpriced, whether or not I have $110 or $100 billion.

[Umichi]

apples to oranges your comparing rl currency to an ingame one of which you have an unlimited supply of and equally infinite chance of aquiring it.

[Zagen]

apples to oranges your comparing rl currency to an ingame one of which you have an unlimited supply of and equally infinite chance of aquiring it.
Actually it's more like Apples to Apples. You have infinite chance of acquiring real life currency if you work for it. Kind of like how if you do rieves and imprints you're essentially working for Bayld.

[Umichi]

I'm implying saying that a scroll of protect is like a milky way.... and aquiring cash in RL is a far more complex process than ingame... comparing the two is kinda...moot

[Zagen]

I'm implying saying that a scroll of protect is like a milky way.... and aquiring cash in RL is a far more complex process than ingame... comparing the two is kinda...moot

Except it's not. 1,000 Bayld when you're sitting on 11,000 is just as expensive as it would be when you're sitting on 1,000,001,000 Bayld. There's a reason the rich stay rich and it's not because they have more money to piss away.

[Umichi]

but a milky way bar can change its price from 1 dollar to 100 due to inflation.....

[Umichi]

if you'd spend like 30-40 minutes a day doing 15 imprints you should have plenty of bayld way more than 1k and if you can only carry 1 protect scroll with you then 10 should do the trick unless your dieing alot... which would imply you should find some support.

[Renaissance2K]

I should have used Snickers instead of a Milky Way because this conversation sure hasn't gone anywhere for a while.

[Zagen]

but a milky way bar can change its price from 1 dollar to 100 due to inflation.....

While that's true it doesn't actually apply to the comparison because the value of money (what typically drives inflation) would stay the same meaning it would still be overpriced for it's perceived value.


I should have used Snickers instead of a Milky Way because this conversation sure hasn't gone anywhere for a while.
Personally I would have picked Twix but then again that just feels like a better value I mean you do get 2 chocolate caramel cookie bars instead of just 1!

[Umichi]

indeed the lazy will continue to be lazy......if it's only a minor inconvienience for people who more than likely don't need them, why should the price decreas... you only enable the bayld system to be abused more when you save your bayld for alternative items... like oh lets say bayld hp and mp increase potions.... or a myriad of other bonuses that are incurred through bayld... I don't see anyone complaining about a +65 hp enchant being a waste for 2k.... oh but thats a permanent bonus... so why not make it 10k?

[Umichi]

While that's true it doesn't actually apply to the comparison because the value of money (what typically drives inflation) would stay the same meaning it would still be overpriced for it's perceived value.


Personally I would have picked Twix but then again that just feels like a better value I mean you do get 2 chocolate caramel cookie bars instead of just 1!

so by your standards a dollar would still be a dollar even if inflation incurred and made 100 dollars commonplace?


If yes im sorry to inform you the dollar does not follow the gold standard anymore

[Zagen]

indeed the lazy will continue to be lazy......if it's only a minor inconvienience for people who more than likely don't need them, why should the price decreas... you only enable the bayld system to be abused more when you save your bayld for alternative items... like oh lets say bayld hp and mp increase potions.... or a myriad of other bonuses that are incurred through bayld... I don't see anyone complaining about a +65 hp enchant being a waste for 2k.... oh but thats a permanent bonus... so why not make it 10k?
Again missing the point.

As to the Bayld armor considering none of them are worth full timing meaning once you swap them out the HP/MP is lost they aren't even worth upgrading now, so raising the cost doesn't do anything.

[Umichi]

which is false i full time the kareyiah pants and legs, as i don't have much acess to delve yet. to players who have beaten the curb (albeit recently or a long time ago).... it might not be worth it, but it still is a valued piece in my gear. so your opinion is false.

[Zagen]

so by your standards a dollar would still be a dollar even if inflation incurred and made 100 dollars commonplace?


If yes im sorry to inform you the dollar does not follow the gold standard anymore

I don't think you know how the value of a dollar works, while it did at one point equate to the value of gold that hasn't been true in the united states for a long time consider as a country we've printed much more money that we have in gold at least based on known values.

When I was a child candy bars were 60 cents or 2 for a dollar at 7 eleven. Now they're 1.29 or 2 for 2 dollars. Back then minimum wage was $3.35 (late 80s when I started becoming aware of the value of money) today minimum wage is $7.25. The cost of a candy bar has essentially doubled in that time and so has the minimum wage thus keeping the value the same.

[detlef]

I'll be pretty bummed if I don't at least get a bite of the Milky Way.

Also it is stupid to have to pay 1k Bayld for Protect III.

[Zagen]

which is false i full time the kareyiah pants and legs, as i don't have much acess to delve yet. to players who have beaten the curb (albeit recently or a long time ago).... it might not be worth it, but it still is a valued piece in my gear. so your opinion is false.

Work on NNI and let me know how true your statements are after that. I bet you'll be changing your legs out, as to the feet (assuming legs was a typo for feet) I question why you haven't visited abyssea for Ace's Leggings or Emp +1/2 feet. This is in context of your main job being set to DRG in your info section by the way.

[Karbuncle]

Except it's not. 1,000 Bayld when you're sitting on 11,000 is just as expensive as it would be when you're sitting on 1,000,001,000 Bayld. There's a reason the rich stay rich and it's not because they have more money to piss away.

He's right though Zagen, Its about the currency availability. If in Real life you could go spent 15 Minutes doing a "job" and make 1,000~1,500$, Milky ways would probably be 100$. These Currencies in Vana'Diel simply do not have the same standards as real life, therefor the Comparison/example is almost idiotic to the point of ludicrous. (I say this knowing you weren't the one who originally made the comparison Zags so don't worry ^^!).

Personally, I understand their logic in making it Protect III, and I get the pricing point... But as it stands, despite what i said above and the idiocy of a RL comparison to milky ways that felt like it sounded logical in the head of a 1st grader... I do believe the price should be reduced slightly, maybe by 50%. 1k Bayld is, while low, a bit steep for a Protect III, though i fully acknowledge the advantages of having such a thing on hand when solo or without a mage to cast it on you, which was likely the intended use for them. (duh).

[Umichi]

I don't think you know how the value of a dollar works, while it did at one point equate to the value of gold that hasn't been true in the united states for a long time consider as a country we've printed much more money that we have in gold at least based on known values.

When I was a child candy bars were 60 cents or 2 for a dollar at 7 eleven. Now they're 1.29 or 2 for 2 dollars. Back then minimum wage was $3.35 (late 80s when I started becoming aware of the value of money) today minimum wage is $7.25. The cost of a candy bar has essentially doubled in that time and so has the minimum wage thus keeping the value the same.

actually minimum wage has stayed the same.... the cost of the candy bar has risen..

[Umichi]

Work on NNI and let me know how true your statements are after that. I bet you'll be changing your legs out, as to the feet (assuming legs was a typo for feet) I question why you haven't visited abyssea for Ace's Leggings or Emp +1/2 feet. This is in context of your main job being set to DRG in your info section by the way.

1) I don't have the people to do ace's legging and I've no interest in them personally.

2) you obviously don't know how elite people are at NNI or you'd be aware no one wants anything outside of a drk, mnk, sam, war, or some other typical job slot that has been dominant the past 5ish years i've been playing.

3) my feet are almost to +2 but i find the lack of people able to or willing to help is staggering for the nm's that i need

and fourthly i meant my hands and legs are kareiyeh

[Umichi]

1) I don't have the people to do ace's legging and I've no interest in them personally.

2) you obviously don't know how elite people are at NNI or you'd be aware no one wants anything outside of a drk, mnk, sam, war, or some other typical job slot that has been dominant the past 5ish years i've been playing.

3) my feet are almost to +2 but i find the lack of people able to or willing to help is staggering for the nm's that i need

and fourthly i meant my hands and legs are kareiyeh

i would however settle for phorcy's leggings over aces.

[Zagen]

He's right though Zagen, Its about the currency availability. If in Real life you could go spent 15 Minutes doing a "job" and make 1,000~1,500$, Milky ways would probably be 100$. These Currencies in Vana'Diel simply do not have the same standards as real life, therefor the Comparison/example is almost idiotic to the point of ludicrous. (I say this knowing you weren't the one who originally made the comparison Zags so don't worry ^^!).

Personally, I understand their logic in making it Protect III, and I get the pricing point... But as it stands, despite what i said above and the idiocy of a RL comparison to milky ways that felt like it sounded logical in the head of a 1st grader... I do believe the price should be reduced slightly, maybe by 50%. 1k Bayld is, while low, a bit steep for a Protect III, though i fully acknowledge the advantages of having such a thing on hand when solo or without a mage to cast it on you, which was likely the intended use for them. (duh).

I missed the part where a given currency in game just comes out of thin air. You still have to work for it, thus it is comparable to real life currency because that doesn't just come out of thin air either.

While some might find doing X event that gives Y currency fun that doesn't change it from being equatable to work, some people have fun working in real life too.

[Demon6324236]

i full time the kareyiah pantsWell... ok then.

[Umichi]

Well... ok then.


ok then what?

[Umichi]

I missed the part where a given currency in game just comes out of thin air. You still have to work for it, thus it is comparable to real life currency because that doesn't just come out of thin air either.

While some might find doing X event that gives Y currency fun that doesn't change it from being equatable to work, some people have fun working in real life too.

I don't see you getting permission from a federal reserve to print more money for the players to readily have acess to and pool all their funds from what is set into the game do you? hence money can be pulled from thin air.

[OmnysValefor]

Again missing the point.

As to the Bayld armor considering none of them are worth full timing meaning once you swap them out the HP/MP is lost they aren't even worth upgrading now, so raising the cost doesn't do anything.

This is silly, and wrong.

You just said that when you swap out the light-armor feet, or the plate hands (if you happen to TP in those), you've wasted the hp but that's not true. You make a one-second swap to ws harder. Should the healers not heal you back to full? The 40 hp you gain from the pieces can, and has, saved lives, and indirectly, made for a success.

It's common that ws swaps will create 100 hp to cure, in non-hp builds. Healers should still put it back.

+HP on ws-only gear is the only wasted +HP, unless of course it aligns with +HP on tp'ing gear.. but sigh.

[Zagen]

I don't see you getting permission from a federal reserve to print more money for the players to readily have acess to and pool all their funds from what is set into the game do you? hence money can be pulled from thin air.
Again how did you get said Bayld by doing nothing?

[Umichi]

He's right though Zagen, Its about the currency availability. If in Real life you could go spent 15 Minutes doing a "job" and make 1,000~1,500$, Milky ways would probably be 100$. These Currencies in Vana'Diel simply do not have the same standards as real life, therefor the Comparison/example is almost idiotic to the point of ludicrous. (I say this knowing you weren't the one who originally made the comparison Zags so don't worry ^^!).

Personally, I understand their logic in making it Protect III, and I get the pricing point... But as it stands, despite what i said above and the idiocy of a RL comparison to milky ways that felt like it sounded logical in the head of a 1st grader... I do believe the price should be reduced slightly, maybe by 50%. 1k Bayld is, while low, a bit steep for a Protect III, though i fully acknowledge the advantages of having such a thing on hand when solo or without a mage to cast it on you, which was likely the intended use for them. (duh).

I concur, While i disagree with a drastic price drop.... or outright buffing of the spell..... I would not be against a decrease in price... however from my perspective the pricing is fair.... and I'm a fairly normal player, and i aquire enough bayld to satisfy my thirst.... seeing as how I'm sure most of you do delve I find it hard to believe your running low on bayld for such services in the first place... but then again you did decide to make the entire content introduced for SoA outside of delve irrelevant so far. so i can see how aquiring bayld could be such a task or bother now that your being forced to slow down. perhaps i'm wrong... who knows

[Kaisha]

For 1k Bayld you'd figure it'd have X amount of charges on it. If I had the inventory to spare I'd keep a Pro3-in-a-scroll handy that had 20 some charges or so when I'm off soloing without self-protect means.

Better than having no protect ever since that att-def ratio balance hit.

[Umichi]

Again how did you get said Bayld by doing nothing?

I went on a quest and poof 6k magically appeared in my inventory after completion... of which is shared with no one and impacts no one.

[Zagen]

This is silly, and wrong.

You just said that when you swap out the light-armor feet, or the plate hands (if you happen to TP in those), you've wasted the hp but that's not true. You make a one-second swap to ws harder. Should the healers not heal you back to full? The 40 hp you gain from the pieces can, and has, saved lives, and indirectly, made for a success.

It's common that ws swaps will create 100 hp to cure, in non-hp builds. Healers should still put it back.

+HP on ws-only gear is the only wasted +HP, unless of course it aligns with +HP on tp'ing gear.. but sigh.
Wait which part about that 40 HP being lost isn't true?

I get that a cure, regen, a potion, or some other HP restoring method can regain that HP but I fail to see how it isn't lost until then.

[Zagen]

I went on a quest and poof 6k magically appeared in my inventory after completion... of which is shared with no one and impacts no one.

That quest is called having done something. I said doing nothing, there is a difference.

[Umichi]

i do recall playing a game as doing nothing but entertainment yes? it would be awefully boring if SE just handed me bayld for no reason....

and you didnt adress the last part of what i said it impacts no one and i share it with no one.

[Demon6324236]

ok then what?I just find that somewhat sad since DRG has a number of options for legs both easy and hard to get which would easily be better for TPing and yet you choose to full time those legs. Besides that I disagree with you on the entirety of this thread because your entire point has been that Bayld is easy to get, well yes, it is, its also boring, but it is not really a good argument in my opinion. I fail to understand why a Scroll of Protect should be at the same potency as a subjob can cast on you while at the same time costing 100 times the price of a Warp Scroll. I could make 1000 Bayld in 10 minutes, I could go solo a Lair Reive, pop 3 Imps on the Couriers and walk to the first place outside of Adoulin and tada, instantly have enough Bayld, but the point is, why should I?

I still fail to understand how this being cheaper would in any way, shape, or form be a bad thing. You have explained no negative impact that I have seen, or believe would truly be a negative thing. I will be honest, I have no intention on ever buying one of these, even if the price were lowered, I would never use it in Adoulin, maybe on my friends character when I do Dynamis on BST, but that is the only case I can think of I might possibly do it.

My point is, its so weak and worthless that it should not cost this much, its like the Ergon things, they cost I think like 40k Bayld and their effects are pure crap, why would anyone bother with them? Simple, they wont, and don't, because they suck, if you are going to put items in a game, make them worth existing, in the case of this Protect, make it worth buying, using, and carrying. Right now, they are worthless to anyone who has a friend or 2k to pay a WHM to cast Protect on them, only 50+% of the players on this game have WHM, RDM, SCH, or PLD leveled to cast Protect V, its hard to find. I would think it would be worth it to have it as 100 Bayld for a Protect V, 100 Bayld for a Shell V, and that would be fine, as it is now, its not worth the cost, if you think it is, awesome, but I think you have a problem rating something value.

[Karbuncle]

I missed the part where a given currency in game just comes out of thin air. You still have to work for it, thus it is comparable to real life currency because that doesn't just come out of thin air either.

While some might find doing X event that gives Y currency fun that doesn't change it from being equatable to work, some people have fun working in real life too.

Its the rate of gain thats in Question, Not that its a job or theres effort required. The comparison is simply silly, nothing more, nothing less. While comparing it to RL currency is possible, what was used was a wrong, and wildly over-the-top exaggeration of the price of said item

[Umichi]

I just find that somewhat sad since DRG has a number of options for legs both easy and hard to get which would easily be better for TPing and yet you choose to full time those legs. Besides that I disagree with you on the entirety of this thread because your entire point has been that Bayld is easy to get, well yes, it is, its also boring, but it is not really a good argument in my opinion. I fail to understand why a Scroll of Protect should be at the same potency as a subjob can cast on you while at the same time costing 100 times the price of a Warp Scroll. I could make 1000 Bayld in 10 minutes, I could go solo a Lair Reive, pop 3 Imps on the Couriers and walk to the first place outside of Adoulin and tada, instantly have enough Bayld, but the point is, why should I?

I still fail to understand how this being cheaper would in any way, shape, or form be a bad thing. You have explained no negative impact that I have seen, or believe would truly be a negative thing. I will be honest, I have no intention on ever buying one of these, even if the price were lowered, I would never use it in Adoulin, maybe on my friends character when I do Dynamis on BST, but that is the only case I can think of I might possibly do it.

My point is, its so weak and worthless that it should not cost this much, its like the Ergon things, they cost I think like 40k Bayld and their effects are pure crap, why would anyone bother with them? Simple, they wont, and don't, because they suck, if you are going to put items in a game, make them worth existing, in the case of this Protect, make it worth buying, using, and carrying. Right now, they are worthless to anyone who has a friend or 2k to pay a WHM to cast Protect on them, only 50+% of the players on this game have WHM, RDM, SCH, or PLD leveled to cast Protect V, its hard to find. I would think it would be worth it to have it as 100 Bayld for a Protect V, 100 Bayld for a Shell V, and that would be fine, as it is now, its not worth the cost, if you think it is, awesome, but I think you have a problem rating something value.

yes well i think the problem here is perspective.... Give me a piece of leg gear for a job that that you spent years playing and spent time customizing the armour to tell me there are better TP pants to tp in.....by whose standards? the elite ruling class of endgamers? who use spreadhseets and min/max damage for full "Hypothetical" potential damage and then says everything else is fail? if not them then please pray tell who in this game can and cannot tell me how i play them game because I'd really like to welcome my new overlords to the game?

[Zagen]

i do recall playing a game as doing nothing but entertainment yes? it would be awefully boring if SE just handed me bayld for no reason....

and you didnt adress the last part of what i said it impacts no one and i share it with no one.
Again finding entertainment in what you're doing doesn't mean it counts as doing nothing, you're still doing something to find that entertainment.

I didn't address your last comment because you still haven't quantified the first part. But I'll indulge you, while the Bayld we generate as individual players has no direct (i say direct because using Bayld to get better gear technically has indirect impacts others you play with but it doesn't affect their individual Bayld) impact on anyone else's Bayld it still impacts our individual Bayld totals.

[Demon6324236]

yes well i think the problem here is perspective.... Give me a piece of leg gear for a job that that you spent years playing and spent time customizing the armour to tell me there are better TP pants to tp in.....by whose standards? the elite ruling class of endgamers? who use spreadhseets and min/max damage for full "Hypothetical" potential damage and then says everything else is fail? if not them then please pray tell who in this game can and cannot tell me how i play them game because I'd really like to welcome my new overlords to the game?I love how apparently me pointing out that there are better TP legs = forcing you to use different/better gear. Also, awesome job ignoring the entire part that was on topic rather than a direct reply to the quote.

[detlef]

Don't get into an argument with Umichi on DRG gear...

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/32497-Dragoon-Endgame-Lances

[Zagen]

Its the rate of gain thats in Question, Not that its a job or theres effort required. The comparison is simply silly, nothing more, nothing less. While comparing it to RL currency is possible, what was used was a wrong, and wildly over-the-top exaggeration of the price of said item

The comparison is denoting that the value isn't there. If the value doesn't justify the cost there's no sale going on. If my rate of gain is 10/hr or 10,000/hr that is irrelevant unless I outright ignore value.

[Demon6324236]

Don't get into an argument with Umichi on DRG gear...

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/32497-Dragoon-Endgame-LancesYeah I know, that thread is partly why its hard to take anything he says seriously so far as things go, but oh well.

[Umichi]

I love how apparently me pointing out that there are better TP legs = forcing you to use different/better gear. Also, awesome job ignoring the entire part that was on topic rather than a direct reply to the quote.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what piece out there is easier to get than kareyiah that out paces them for fulltime. You chose to attack me on this matter, starting filling those boots....

If it's so weak and worthless then why do you bother defending rarely wanting to use it or defending those that want to use it even if you may remotely use it why bother doing anything to stir this conversation? Is it just to spite me then? cause I just pulled your logic against you...

As stated in a previous post I said while I am against a complete cheapening or upgrading of the scroll i am ok with a price drop.... so lets just get that out of the way.

and the aer aren't pure crap.... they are only crap because for high tier players the stats are negligible

[Umichi]

Yeah I know, that thread is partly why its hard to take anything he says seriously so far as things go, but oh well.

so you automatically walk into a conversation assuming you can't take me seriously.... do you even know how to discuss matters?

[OmnysValefor]

Wait which part about that 40 HP being lost isn't true?

I get that a cure, regen, a potion, or some other HP restoring method can regain that HP but I fail to see how it isn't lost until then.

When the player switches back to TP gear 1 second later and they regain their max hp, and it's healed back directly or indrectly, they've that much more chance of surviving the next dangerous aoe.

My point is that a player should still fully augment their bayld-TP gear for the situations in which its used. Just because WSing for a second might take it away doesn't mean the extra 40 to their max-hp won't save their life, and possibly the group, later on.

[Demon6324236]

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what piece out there is easier to get than kareyiah that out paces them for fulltime. You chose to attack me on this matter, starting filling those boots....
From easiest to hardest.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/a/ab/Jingang_Hose_description.png (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Jingang_Hose)

Cheap on the AH, should not be to bad to get your hands on, they also come from the same fight as the Calmecac I believe so if you want you can try to farm them normally, either one is a fine option.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/3/30/Homam_Cosciales_description.png (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Homam_Cosciales)

These days Limbus is easy, so getting these should not be to bad, especially if you know anyone who wants the body for making the Enif body, in which case, tag along and grab these. An advantage to these is they are especially useful for DRG as /mage is not all to bad and they have 5% Fast Cast, they can also be upgraded to Enif if you fight Arch-Omega, which have upgraded stats in every way and are very good legs till Phorcys, Ares, or so on.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/8/82/Ace%27s_Hose_description.png (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Ace%27s_Hose)

These are just a lot of Haste, they are not to hard since they come from Abyssea but might be a pain due to the fact Abyssea is basically dead, can do an Atma shout. All in all these are probably not to viable of an option, still, not bad, and potential choice in the end for a nice amount of Haste & some attack, since DRG has Accuracy Bonus V you do not really have much of a problem with the -accuracy on DRG unless doing some very hard NMs, in which case, you should not be using these anyways.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/0/01/Calmecac_Trousers_description.png (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Calmecac_Trousers)

Tons of awesome multi-attack, no Attack or anything sadly but its amazing for TP gain, the only flaw to these legs are the Accuracy, which again, DRG is not very effected by anyways due to traits.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/c/ca/Rheic_Dirs_%2B3_description.png (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Rheic_Dirs_%2B3)

These might be a little harder to get your hands on, but if you shout for a NNI group to get to floor 80 you might pick these up while getting your wins for Phorcys gear. They are not bad legs, can direct drop, and would work wonders for a hold over piece. The standard NNI setups I see now are 4DDs, does not have to be godly DDs, just good ones, job is not as important as before if well geared, then just a SCH for Regen/Pro/Shell/Phalanx and a BRD/SMN for Hastega/Marches or a DNC for Chocobo Jig II.

Worth an honorable mention, as it is potentially the easiest, but also highly luck based.
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/c/cf/Bestia_Breeches_description.png (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Bestia_Breeches)
Click on any of the pictures and it will take you to the BG page for the item, except these last legs, they are on AH.com as BG does not have the augments listed.


If it's so weak and worthless then why do you bother defending rarely wanting to use it or defending those that want to use it even if you may remotely use it why bother doing anything to stir this conversation? Is it just to spite me then? cause I just pulled your logic against you...No, I just fail to see why they should put a scroll in the game that only comes from level 99 content that gives the same potency as a person half that level can cast on 1 of 4 jobs that most players have leveled at some point. I mean admittedly it would be kind of like if they made level 52~60 AF gear for RUN & GEO yet at the same time the quests took place in Adoulin, an entire series of areas made for jobs almost twice that level. I would love to see the item be of more use, but as it is now, its not, if they changed it, it might become something I would use, after all, I use Reraise Scrolls and Warp Scrolls, I keep 1 on me of each at all times if possible, so why would it be so bad to hope this would become one of those? As it is now, its not even close to that status because of its weak potency, that and its cost are the main reasons I do not bother with them.


As stated in a previous post I said while I am against a complete cheapening or upgrading of the scroll i am ok with a price drop.... so lets just get that out of the way.I must have missed that somewhere then, because so far as I understood you seemed to have been saying this entire time you were fine with how it is. In either case, we still disagree on the matter of its potency.


and the aer aren't pure crap.... they are only crap because for high tier players the stats are negligiblehttp://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/9/9c/Ares%27_Flanchard_%2B1_description.png (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Ares%27_Flanchard_%2B1)
These? They are actually good, I don't know why someone would say otherwise.


so you automatically walk into a conversation assuming you can't take me seriously.... do you even know how to discuss matters?I take you seriously till you start saying things that make no sense and seem completely irrational to me, like with what you are saying here, or for instance in that other thread how you intentionally gimp your damage so you don't pull hate off the tank. Before someone does something like that in a thread I ignore who they are, for instance I looked at a post a couple days ago and saw it was made by PChan, I was amazed I agreed with it, normally his posts are filled with some stupid stuff that he thinks is right, and somehow it must be right because he is uber pro and has an Afterglow, which makes him relevant.

My point was, that when you say things like that, then say mildly nonsensical things like here, it makes it look a little worse to me, because I think about it and I just find it harder to believe that somewhere in this topic where you claim there is a problem, you actually have a point under it all that is hidden from me. Basically, you sounded insane before, and your saying things that look crazy now, so it seems more likely that I should just tally it up to you saying insane things rather than believing there is an underlining point I am failing to grasp.



I do apologies if I seem to come off as an asshole or something, but seriously I fail to understand some of the things you say, not in a lack of comprehension but rather a lack of understanding why you would think what you do. I am not trying to impose some sort of iron thumb on your way to play the game or anything of the sort, but there are standards of which I have come to expect of people, and on top of everything crazy you say, not swapping these legs kind of stood out and made me want to point out to people quickly, maybe this is why it seems like he is talking crazy, maybe you should just drop it and leave it be, this will get no where. In either case, I hope this helps understand where I am coming from, the leg options help, and I am sorry for any offence I cause you with my posts.

[Umichi]

Jingyang hose... you assume i sub sam, I already put all of my haste into my gloves of which after doing said action i stay at a nice and comfy 13% haste. homam... why bother doing outdated content when i already have a piece that far surpasses it.... don't need the mp im a taru and with aquaveil up i shouldn't need fast cast as the spells im casting only take a fraction of a second to 1 second to cast, any other time i can shed hate have my wyvern tank and i can cast haste. Ace's hose.. no thanks I don't like shedding accuracy as a drg. Calmacec i'd say i wanted them in the past but truly they do nothing special for drg unless your looking to min/max and use hypotheticals and force myself into building a specific way other players have done before me. bestia breeches... please explain how they can flat out beat all the stats a drg wants and then some of which kariyeh provides...? Ares flanchard is sexy but it still doesn't provide the raw stats kareyiah provide me and i'd need another piece to make the set bonus possible.......

I never said i'd intentionally gimp my damage.... i said i could revert to white hits and shoot for bigger ws's.... since well if im pulling hate shouldn't i be unthrottling so tank can hold hate? not struggle against it... what if the nm has an ability that procs only when it switches target.... or is not someone that's the tank?

[Umichi]

see the problem here is your expecting everything to come at you from YOUR perspective... which is reasonable but if you truly wish to talk to crazy people you should understand that doing things only from your perspective will not result in positive interactions....

you have not offended me but i do wish you'd come at these conversations with patience.... I'f im making a fool of myself then people only have to break the perception i have willingly given myself but am open to alternatives.... until you debunk everything i have to say with proven facts then these conversations will go on....

[OmnysValefor]

I say this a tank Umichi.

There was a time when DPS that could watch their hate were appreciated. There were several bosses where that was an appreciated, if not necessary, skill.

Unfortunately, the game hasn't been like that in years. No offense, but if most top-end DPS thought like you did, nothing would die.

I love my paladin, but 1, 2, 10, or even 18 of me don't kill fast enough in any gearset to get anything relevant dead.

[Demon6324236]

Jingyang hose... you assume i sub sam, I already put all of my haste into my gloves of which after doing said action i stay at a nice and comfy 13% haste.Literally have the cap, which is not good, that lowers your damage by a large amount. So far as SAM sub goes, no, it has nothing to do with subbing SAM, WAR, or anything else. Enhances effects are not influenced by having the stat already. You can wear Brutal Earring on any job with any sub and still get full benefits of +5% Double Attack even though it says 'Enhances Double Attack' and the same goes for these legs, so long as you wear them, you get the effects that the 'Enhances Zanshin' effect gives, the exact % however, I do not know. The only stat that 'Enhances blah' does not still grant is Dual Wield, so far as I know any other stat is given with or without already having said stat.


homam... why bother doing outdated content when i already have a piece that far surpasses it.... don't need the mp im a taru and with aquaveil up i shouldn't need fast cast as the spells im casting only take a fraction of a second to 1 second to cast, any other time i can shed hate have my wyvern tank and i can cast haste.Why? Because they give a nice amount of Haste, you have to ask yourself how much damage you gain from using the legs you currently do to TP in vs how much you gain with that Haste. The Haste would mean faster attack, thus faster WSs, and overall more damage in the end because of that reason. The Fast Cast is never a necessity, but it is helpful, you point out the spells you cast are either super fast or you can have the mob attack your wyvern, but what about recast? What about spells that take longer? What if Aquaveil wears during a fight because you got hit while casting to often? Things can happen here which make those helpful.


Ace's hose.. no thanks I don't like shedding accuracy as a drg.This makes no sense, you do not like getting rid of accuracy, something you have an overly high abundance of since you have +60 from traits alone. That's not counting the accuracy on your gear, the fact you get to main a A+ ranked weapon as your primary weapon(unlike DRK), and the fact you are probably not fighting to hard of NMs I would assume. All in all, this -10 Accuracy should be nothing to worry about, the only time you should ever care about it is a case in which Accuracy truly becomes an issue for DRG, at which time, there are 3 other options here I gave you which have no Accuracy penalties.


Calmacec i'd say i wanted them in the past but truly they do nothing special for drg unless your looking to min/max and use hypotheticals and force myself into building a specific way other players have done before me.What? They give you 3% Haste, which is nice, about the same as all of the other options I gave you, on top of that, they have 2% Double Attack as well as 2% Triple Attack. These stats are basically saying you get 2 more attacks for every 100 attacks you do, and 4 more attacks for every 100 attacks you do, why? Simple, 2% Double Attack means 2% of the time you will hit twice, as such, 2 out of every 100 attacks you get an extra attack, meaning, 2 extra hits every 100 attacks, the same goes for Triple Attacks except its 2 extra hits instead of 1.


bestia breeches... please explain how they can flat out beat all the stats a drg wants and then some of which kariyeh provides...?Simply put, it is because they give 4% Haste as well as some potential other stats like Accuracy, STR, DEX, and so on, all of which are great stats. Now, do they win for WS? No, like every single option here except the 1 I have yet to cover, they have no real WS stats at all, in fact, this is why you should swap them out when WSing. I assumed you would be doing this, in which case, the Haste easily pushes the rest of these options to the top because the more hits you do in less time means faster WSs and higher overall damage in the end.


Ares flanchard is sexy but it still doesn't provide the raw stats kareyiah provide me and i'd need another piece to make the set bonus possible.......If you would need another piece take the hands, they are great too, but in the end you do not need the set bonus, its nice, yes, but in the end it is just what it says, a bonus. It is another one of the many things which are not necessities to use the gear, and again, yes, these are not good for WSing, but in the end the damage would be higher even if you WSed in these. The reason why the damage would be higher if you WSed in these even is because on top of the dDEX (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/DDEX#Melee_Critical_Hit_Rate_.28dDEX.29) potentially effecting your crit rate (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Critical_Hit_Rate) from the 8DEX these give your getting roughly 2fSTR (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/FSTR) from the 8STR, 6 Attack from the 8STR, and STR is the modifier on your WS. If you use Drakesbane then you get a boost on crits from the DEX just like on normal hits which makes it even better. On top of all of that, the Triple Attack can proc on the WS, meaning you get a chance at your WS spiking quite high on damage if that kicks in, but since it most of the time wont its not really a primary selling point. Besides all of this which is already meaning they are fairly good legs, they have the largest amount of Haste a DRG can get on legs, and would make your Attack Speed (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Attack_speed) much higher!

I hope I accurately explained why each of these are better choices for TPing. While you do get some more damage per hit from those legs you use now, they are much slower, which means larger gaps between WSs and also slower attacks overall. Think of it this way, if you attack for 100 damage every 6 seconds, but I attack for 80 every 4 seconds. You might hit for more per hit, but in overall damage you are doing less, that is basically what the difference is between what you are using now, and what I am saying are better options.

[Karbuncle]

.by whose standards? the elite ruling class of endgamers? who use spreadhseets and min/max damage for full "Hypothetical" potential damage and then says everything else is fail? if not them then please pray tell who in this game can and cannot tell me how i play them game because I'd really like to welcome my new overlords to the game?

Well, Firstly math is not hypothetical. math is a fact. Like many things in life, MMO's boil down to mathmatical formula. in FFXI, there are known equations and formulas for devising the best possible sets. This includes TP and WS for maximizing white damage and WS damage. These are not elitist opinions, these are truths with you cannot avoid anymore so than you can avoid your own death.

To the point of this quote, He's writing you off because you imply loving and playing a job for multiple years, meaning you've played FFXI for years and the concept of TP/WS set manages to elude you after this much time, which means you either acknowledge the right solution, Cap haste, Acc, and having a separate WS set... and Go the other way, Or you've actually failed to learn the basic and core mechanics of being a Melee, which is Damage.

He's writing that off because there is no excuse for not understanding a Video game after playing it for several years. So as stated above, You've either written off the rightful alternative, Or you've not learned it. Continuing, I'd like to say, as i have in the past, I sympathize with people who play for fun. I understand this concept well and I thoroughly enjoy the game. But when you make yourself seem... gimp... to other players, You might suffer invites, You may be left out of shouts, or may just get into bad shouts... You're in reality limiting your own playing experience, so when one says they play for fun to justify their lackluster gear, It makes me question how they can have fun being deprived of so many events.

Then i come to the Official Forums and read all the complaints about "RMED Only" Shouts and so forth, and I realize... Those who "play for fun" and "its my 12.95" etc, Aren't really having fun because of their own lack of motivation... They're being left out of events, and are looking for other things to blame, When what they should be doing is questioning why they have played for almost a decade and haven't taken the time to learn it, or even spend a modicum of time making their character more worthy.

When I give someone gear advice, I always try to make it a note to say, Do it for yourself. Don't do it cause i said so, Don't do it cause someone called you gimp... Do it for yourself. Take pride in being a DRG, be the best GD DRG you can. You think i made a Mandau because I wanted to look cool? Hell no, If i wanted to Bandwagon a free ride to mediocrity with false sense of superiority I'd jump on a RNG or PLD Relic and act hot... No, I made Mandau because I love THF, and I wanted it for myself, I wanted to improve my favorite job... I mean, Mandau sucks now and THF is dead so I quit FFXI like a bad habit, But thats not here nor there.

Honestly, When it comes to gearing... I don't mind if people want to play for fun, Its their right and its their choice... But what it comes down to is Gear sets aren't optional to be a good player, Capping Haste/Acc, and having a good WS Set aren't optional either. If you want to forego those and you can still enjoy that, gear... You can make their own beds, all I ask is you sleep in it. When i see people complaining about elitists to me its just a warning sign of someone whos too lazy to take the initiative or to the effort to be better, and just look for more reasons and excuses to push off realizing the problem is themselves.

This may not be you, I'm just giving you some perspective on where Demon is coming from.


I'm still waiting for you to tell me what piece out there is easier to get than kareyiah that out paces them for fulltime. You chose to attack me on this matter, starting filling those boots....

Now, He has more than fullfilled this for you. When you deny his answer it fuels his reasoning for writing you off. You're appearing as someone who's just been unequivically proven wrong and just goes into a Shameful Hate/Denial Spiral thats really akin to watching a train wreck, I mean, You're unable to believe that you're watching it happen... but ya can't look away cause you don't know if you'll ever see it happen again... morbid yes but the point is clear, its attracting negative attention and I don't want that for you as you at least seem to have some reason inside of you, which is why I'm bothering to type this.


since well if im pulling hate shouldn't i be unthrottling so tank can hold hate? not struggle against it... what if the nm has an ability that procs only when it switches target.... or is not someone that's the tank?

This style of play hasn't been reasonable in FFXI since the dawn of ToAU. Your job as a DD is to DD, your Tanks job is to not be invited or switch to a DD job, your Healers job is to make sure you stay alive long enough to DD. Thats the game. The only change to this is Delve Megabosses, at least Shark/Bee. Its just not something that's common place, and its not much smart play.

Unless you're sure your mages are terrible, then you should probably invest in a Hybrid Set (Read: Haste/DT-%).

Anyway, With that out of the way, I don't want this to feel like I'm ganging up on you with Demon, Know i'm acting separately and alone... I just wanted to say again, If you do something, do it for yourself. If you want to stay at your 13% Haste/HybridWS/AllAround set and continue to be mediocre and terrible, Which I'm sorry if this offends but it is entirely the truth in FFXI where there is no Skill, only cold hard mathematical formulas, Then you are welcome to do so and to hell with me and Demons opinion, Its your life, your money, and your choice...

But if you are really as reasonable as i suspect, take his advice, and mine. Make a TP set, make a WS set, and go from there, Its not much, but its acceptable enough that you'll be left out of very few events, and you'll probably be happy at how well you can do... I believe in you, take the step, and become a great DRG, for yourself.

Goodluck!

[Rekin]

Unfortunately FFXI is simply number crunching in the end. Hence why drg no matter how well geared, well played, etc. will always do less dmg than a similarly geared/skilled person. It is because it was designed that way. I love the job to death which is why I made a gungnir despite I KNEW it was inferior to other "legendary" weapons and that it would ultimately change NOTHING about how I played drg at all. Because of love my job I gear myself fairly well barring salvage 2.0 and delve boss win stuff. Back on topic.

I'm curious as friend of a game designer whom we frequently chat about all levels of game design, what went through the thoughts of the Devs when they made this item and whether or not they actually intended us to even use it.

[Okipuit]

We currently do not have plans to increase the effect or reduce the cost of Scroll of Instant Protect. As this scroll provides Protect regardless of what main job/support job you are, the development team feels the benefit provided is just right.

[Futan]

It has no benefit unless the cost is reduced.

EDIT: To expand on that, the scrolls are in a similar position as Shurikens, the cost is so absurd that they may as well not even exist.

[Nebo]

We currently do not have plans to increase the effect or reduce the cost of Scroll of Instant Protect. As this scroll provides Protect regardless of what main job/support job you are, the development team feels the benefit provided is just right.

Yeah, a pointless protect effect sounds like something the development team would value.

[Karbuncle]

I think the idea of these items, While still a tad overpriced, were they would be used when you solo, For instance, THF/DNC or BST/DNC in Dynamis would not have access to Pro/Shell III, With these scrolls, they do. and 75 Defense can mean a good deal on the EP and DC mobs.

These items do have their use, But unfortunately unless they remove the (R) Tag and let them stack, or change their duration to 2 hours, They remain very very very very situational to the point, I have to agree with the poster just a little above me, and that they're pretty useless, as there are little to no 30 minute events You'd solo...

So yah... It would be nice to either...

A) Increase Duration to 2 Hours so they can be useful in Events you might actually use them in. I.E Dynamis, Salvage, Limbus... Anything solo'd these days.

B) Allow them to Stack, and Let us purchase Multiple for Discounted price....
---I.E
*1 = 1k
*6 = 5.5k
*12 = 10k.

Something like that, Where it would actual encourage a use of them for what I'm assuming they were intended for, Situations where you don't have a healer and you generally solo. I know it feels like you're giving us a inch and we're asking for a Mile... But I don't think its outside the realm of reason to at least allow them to Stack if you don't want to drop a Price Reduction... Or remove the (R) from them if they are indeed (R).

[Fynlar]

We currently do not have plans to increase the effect or reduce the cost of Scroll of Instant Protect. As this scroll provides Protect regardless of what main job/support job you are, the development team feels the benefit provided is just right.

Just right to have nobody making use of them, maybe. The only time you will see people using these is maybe just once, for experimentation, and then never touching them again because they are a bayld drain for minimal effect, kinda like ergon tinctures just to a lesser degree.

The effect provided needs to either scale up like how FoV field support does, and/or a zero or two needs to be lopped off the bayld price. Because as it is, the dev team is out of touch with how useful they think this item is.

[Guppie]

We currently do not have plans to increase the effect or reduce the cost of Scroll of Instant Protect. As this scroll provides Protect regardless of what main job/support job you are, the development team feels the benefit provided is just right.

I wonder if players could just start offering to pay Scholars in town for Perpetuance-ProtV/ShellV. Kind of like the way Jeuno Taxi used to work.

[Edyth]

We currently do not have plans to increase the effect or reduce the cost of Scroll of Instant Protect. As this scroll provides Protect regardless of what main job/support job you are, the development team feels the benefit provided is just right.

Reaction: goes to nearest field manual and gets Protect V for 10 tabs.

[Babekeke]

Reaction: goes to nearest field manual and gets Protect V for 10 tabs.

Field Manuals only give Protect IV. However, when doing Dynamis, I always get pro/shell 4 from FM before entering, which easily lasts long enough to get the TEs done, as that's when you're most likely to get links, particularly the TE5 in the DC mobs.

This scroll is nice to have around as a backup though, for if you get a bad pull after pro 4 has dropped off. I imagine that this will work with sheltered ring too, for an extra few def.

[Muras]

Field Manuals only give Protect IV. However, when doing Dynamis, I always get pro/shell 4 from FM before entering, which easily lasts long enough to get the TEs done, as that's when you're most likely to get links, particularly the TE5 in the DC mobs.

This scroll is nice to have around as a backup though, for if you get a bad pull after pro 4 has dropped off. I imagine that this will work with sheltered ring too, for an extra few def.

It's actually Protect V. I tested it on my SCH; 175 DEF from Pro V the spell, 175 DEF from field manual Protect. I'm pretty sure Field Manual Shell is Shell V too (Although a bit harder to test of course).

I believe at one point it was stuck at Protect IV when they cap increased from 75 to 80, but it's been Protect V for quite a while. Was only an update or two after the 80 cap increase when they fixed it (Of course was only 60 DEF back then).

[Umichi]

I wonder if players could just start offering to pay Scholars in town for Perpetuance-ProtV/ShellV. Kind of like the way Jeuno Taxi used to work.

i do that occasionally... not scholars per-se but ive payed for buffs before

[Umichi]

Unfortunately FFXI is simply number crunching in the end. Hence why drg no matter how well geared, well played, etc. will always do less dmg than a similarly geared/skilled person. It is because it was designed that way. I love the job to death which is why I made a gungnir despite I KNEW it was inferior to other "legendary" weapons and that it would ultimately change NOTHING about how I played drg at all. Because of love my job I gear myself fairly well barring salvage 2.0 and delve boss win stuff. Back on topic.

I'm curious as friend of a game designer whom we frequently chat about all levels of game design, what went through the thoughts of the Devs when they made this item and whether or not they actually intended us to even use it.

It's only number crunching because a mojority of people have defined it as so. Drg from the get go wasn't designed as a full DD otherwise it would've been on par with war sam and man y other jobs with specialities for damage.... How does someone similarly geared and skilled as me do more than me? unless your implying other jobs in which case please look to my second sentence

[OmnysValefor]

Doesn't matter how DRG was designed, it's still mathable.

Suppose combat-gear-swapping wasn't allowed and ninja's nukes hit hard enough, and weren't resisted, so that by casting ninjutsu, they were a competitive DD (not asking for this, not at all--could make the same scenario with DRK but it's even more laughable). There would always be a mathed out build for how much melee stats this poor ninja wanted, how much MAB he wanted. For simplicity's sake, an MAB:Accuracy:Crit:Haste ratio going in all four directions would be mathed just so people knew before the math people went so far as to post best builds.

Point is, doesn't matter if drg started to be a 2h'er that was a bit-more special snowflake, special snowflakes still will always have best in slot builds.

As in all things, either the choice matters, and there's a best choice, or it doesn't matter and there's no choice at all (some merit categories have unbeatable choices, while others don't matter further than 5/10).

[Godofgods]

I hadn't even bothered checking for the scrolls they mentioned a while back. But to hear they are selling pro3 scrolls for 1k bayld is utterly hysterical. I doubt i would even pay 100 for it, much less 1k lol

[Umichi]

hf not paying then :)

[Umichi]

Literally have the cap, which is not good, that lowers your damage by a large amount. So far as SAM sub goes, no, it has nothing to do with subbing SAM, WAR, or anything else. Enhances effects are not influenced by having the stat already. You can wear Brutal Earring on any job with any sub and still get full benefits of +5% Double Attack even though it says 'Enhances Double Attack' and the same goes for these legs, so long as you wear them, you get the effects that the 'Enhances Zanshin' effect gives, the exact % however, I do not know. The only stat that 'Enhances blah' does not still grant is Dual Wield, so far as I know any other stat is given with or without already having said stat.

Why? Because they give a nice amount of Haste, you have to ask yourself how much damage you gain from using the legs you currently do to TP in vs how much you gain with that Haste. The Haste would mean faster attack, thus faster WSs, and overall more damage in the end because of that reason. The Fast Cast is never a necessity, but it is helpful, you point out the spells you cast are either super fast or you can have the mob attack your wyvern, but what about recast? What about spells that take longer? What if Aquaveil wears during a fight because you got hit while casting to often? Things can happen here which make those helpful.

This makes no sense, you do not like getting rid of accuracy, something you have an overly high abundance of since you have +60 from traits alone. That's not counting the accuracy on your gear, the fact you get to main a A+ ranked weapon as your primary weapon(unlike DRK), and the fact you are probably not fighting to hard of NMs I would assume. All in all, this -10 Accuracy should be nothing to worry about, the only time you should ever care about it is a case in which Accuracy truly becomes an issue for DRG, at which time, there are 3 other options here I gave you which have no Accuracy penalties.

What? They give you 3% Haste, which is nice, about the same as all of the other options I gave you, on top of that, they have 2% Double Attack as well as 2% Triple Attack. These stats are basically saying you get 2 more attacks for every 100 attacks you do, and 4 more attacks for every 100 attacks you do, why? Simple, 2% Double Attack means 2% of the time you will hit twice, as such, 2 out of every 100 attacks you get an extra attack, meaning, 2 extra hits every 100 attacks, the same goes for Triple Attacks except its 2 extra hits instead of 1.

Simply put, it is because they give 4% Haste as well as some potential other stats like Accuracy, STR, DEX, and so on, all of which are great stats. Now, do they win for WS? No, like every single option here except the 1 I have yet to cover, they have no real WS stats at all, in fact, this is why you should swap them out when WSing. I assumed you would be doing this, in which case, the Haste easily pushes the rest of these options to the top because the more hits you do in less time means faster WSs and higher overall damage in the end.

If you would need another piece take the hands, they are great too, but in the end you do not need the set bonus, its nice, yes, but in the end it is just what it says, a bonus. It is another one of the many things which are not necessities to use the gear, and again, yes, these are not good for WSing, but in the end the damage would be higher even if you WSed in these. The reason why the damage would be higher if you WSed in these even is because on top of the dDEX (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/DDEX#Melee_Critical_Hit_Rate_.28dDEX.29) potentially effecting your crit rate (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Critical_Hit_Rate) from the 8DEX these give your getting roughly 2fSTR (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/FSTR) from the 8STR, 6 Attack from the 8STR, and STR is the modifier on your WS. If you use Drakesbane then you get a boost on crits from the DEX just like on normal hits which makes it even better. On top of all of that, the Triple Attack can proc on the WS, meaning you get a chance at your WS spiking quite high on damage if that kicks in, but since it most of the time wont its not really a primary selling point. Besides all of this which is already meaning they are fairly good legs, they have the largest amount of Haste a DRG can get on legs, and would make your Attack Speed (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Attack_speed) much higher!

I hope I accurately explained why each of these are better choices for TPing. While you do get some more damage per hit from those legs you use now, they are much slower, which means larger gaps between WSs and also slower attacks overall. Think of it this way, if you attack for 100 damage every 6 seconds, but I attack for 80 every 4 seconds. You might hit for more per hit, but in overall damage you are doing less, that is basically what the difference is between what you are using now, and what I am saying are better options.

unfortunately you didn't sell me on these I don't have a "WS" set, I don't have a "TP" set, I have my gear which i play in that uses some pieces as a switch in for things like healing breath, or angon, or smiting breathand yes some pieces for ws'ing..but really that's only a belt. IDK my acc but i know i have alot in my gear and even with all the gear I have I'm still missing Transcendental scorpion; with carbonara even and it was still to much and that was my first run in with delve NMs.... so shedding more in exchange for more hits is a no thanks for me period because I shudder at my ability to even hit higher up NM's once I aquire more suitable gear, as far as other mobs go I try to keep my targets in the tough+ range when soloing, so you'll often find me in such zones toraimorai is a good example or audolin... audolin has been so fun... been trying to take on VT mobs solo lately It's been pretty fun and good experience.

as far as drakesbane, I use it but out of all my ws's I'd say I punch it probably 60-80% of the time,

anI hit for more and i take less hate for it inbetween attacks.... I like that style.... this game isn't all about damage damage damage.. i mean sure it is to an extent but cmon.......... why does everything have to be about maximising damage potential especially when drg isn't even considered a Full fledged DD, such as sam or war, or drk... I like my utility ty

[Umichi]

Firstly math is not hypothetical. math is a fact. Like many things in life, MMO's boil down to mathmatical formula. in FFXI, there are known equations and formulas for devising the best possible sets. This includes TP and WS for maximizing white damage and WS damage. These are not elitist opinions, these are truths with you cannot avoid anymore so than you can avoid your own death.

Yes it is, quantum physics wishes to speak with you. and players use mathmatics in the game to make hypothetical assumptions, I never mentioned anywhere where you quoted me that I was attacking mathmatics


When I give someone gear advice, I always try to make it a note to say, Do it for yourself. Don't do it cause i said so, Don't do it cause someone called you gimp... Do it for yourself. Take pride in being a DRG, be the best GD DRG you can. You think i made a Mandau because I wanted to look cool? Hell no, If i wanted to Bandwagon a free ride to mediocrity with false sense of superiority I'd jump on a RNG or PLD Relic and act hot... No, I made Mandau because I love THF, and I wanted it for myself, I wanted to improve my favorite job... I mean, Mandau sucks now and THF is dead so I quit FFXI like a bad habit, But thats not here nor there.

I take pride in my job as it is and I honestly think I am a great Drg.... are you implying I don't and am not because my gear is not on par with what the Mainstrem thought process is as to how a damage dealer should be.... who says drg has to focus on DD... the have acess to refresh pieces, a really nice cheap high potentcy cure, decent gear for damage and can stay OOR and drop jump on the target until they see a chance to move in for a WS


Honestly, When it comes to gearing... I don't mind if people want to play for fun, Its their right and its their choice... But what it comes down to is Gear sets aren't optional to be a good player, Capping Haste/Acc, and having a good WS Set aren't optional either. If you want to forego those and you can still enjoy that, gear... You can make their own beds, all I ask is you sleep in it. When i see people complaining about elitists to me its just a warning sign of someone whos too lazy to take the initiative or to the effort to be better, and just look for more reasons and excuses to push off realizing the problem is themselves.


I don't complain about elitests.... I detest their mindframe and the way they've distorted the game, and from that fact I base my ideals off of them, and use that as my basis for complaint... IDC if they are gettin epic lewtz, I do care about how they use spreadsheets and mathatical assumptions to base the games entire endgame off of it... I admit I am lazy....

But I'm never mad at an elitest for who they are I'm mad at them for what they've shaped this world to be with no responsible acknowledgement to normal or casual players ( and sometimes rule abiding players, I'm looking at you third party tools)


Now, He has more than fullfilled this for you. When you deny his answer it fuels his reasoning for writing you off. You're appearing as someone who's just been unequivically proven wrong and just goes into a Shameful Hate/Denial Spiral thats really akin to watching a train wreck, I mean, You're unable to believe that you're watching it happen... but ya can't look away cause you don't know if you'll ever see it happen again... morbid yes but the point is clear, its attracting negative attention and I don't want that for you as you at least seem to have some reason inside of you, which is why I'm bothering to type this.

so what he says is fact and I should follow him blindly; because aparantly IDK better by your standards..... And i don't deny his answers I provide my own to retort his comments.


This style of play hasn't been reasonable in FFXI since the dawn of ToAU. Your job as a DD is to DD, your Tanks job is to not be invited or switch to a DD job, your Healers job is to make sure you stay alive long enough to DD. Thats the game. The only change to this is Delve Megabosses, at least Shark/Bee. Its just not something that's common place, and its not much smart play.

yeah that's centric MMO/rpg style thinking... FFXI has always tried breaking free of such stereotypes..


Unless you're sure your mages are terrible, then you should probably invest in a Hybrid Set (Read: Haste/DT-%).

not everything is solved by creating a new set.. and I don't want to spend 10 minutes gearing up because i need multiple sets for different occasions


Anyway, With that out of the way, I don't want this to feel like I'm ganging up on you with Demon, Know i'm acting separately and alone... I just wanted to say again, If you do something, do it for yourself. If you want to stay at your 13% Haste/HybridWS/AllAround set and continue to be mediocre and terrible, Which I'm sorry if this offends but it is entirely the truth in FFXI where there is no Skill, only cold hard mathematical formulas, Then you are welcome to do so and to hell with me and Demons opinion, Its your life, your money, and your choice...

But if you are really as reasonable as i suspect, take his advice, and mine. Make a TP set, make a WS set, and go from there, Its not much, but its acceptable enough that you'll be left out of very few events, and you'll probably be happy at how well you can do... I believe in you, take the step, and become a great DRG, for yourself.

Goodluck!

I don't see you as attacking me, but I find some of your statements flawed, like calling me medicore and terrible for choosing how i wish to play...There is skill to this game it's just been lost to zerg tactics over the years because of human ingenuity, everyday i take your guy's advice in hand the mathmatics (while i choose not to delve into the deeper parts of it) you provide for information such as what sort of attack ill get from adding this much str and etc etc and i look at the gears i can go through and I find what I want to use and use it.. I also read about how you take down monsters what sort of info you've gleaned from them etc etc... (sadly that info is starting to dwindle... I use bg but its been failing me a bit because it doesn't have discussion pages and going to the forums makes me sick x.x) I also use FFXIah, So it's not like I'm just hurrdurring my way through the game I finding viable gear choices for the style I wish to play (which sadly is very much adapted for aliance play but gets little attention because all anyone cares about is DD DD DD DD DD....... I'm a great mele party healer, add handler, and well versed in the arts of DD and what that implies in the broader spectrum of taking down an enemy monster in an MMO setting...

Until you understand that this isn't just your game it's everyones and we all play under the same roof and as such we shouldn't be kicked to the ground because in your eyes we are "Terrible", you'll never understand the mind frame I have towards such things as mainly subbing whm, or trying to find that great piece of gear I always wanted *drools at gungnir*

[Umichi]

Doesn't matter how DRG was designed, it's still mathable.

Suppose combat-gear-swapping wasn't allowed and ninja's nukes hit hard enough, and weren't resisted, so that by casting ninjutsu, they were a competitive DD (not asking for this, not at all--could make the same scenario with DRK but it's even more laughable). There would always be a mathed out build for how much melee stats this poor ninja wanted, how much MAB he wanted. For simplicity's sake, an MAB:Accuracy:Crit:Haste ratio going in all four directions would be mathed just so people knew before the math people went so far as to post best builds.

Point is, doesn't matter if drg started to be a 2h'er that was a bit-more special snowflake, special snowflakes still will always have best in slot builds.

As in all things, either the choice matters, and there's a best choice, or it doesn't matter and there's no choice at all (some merit categories have unbeatable choices, while others don't matter further than 5/10).

I concur but it's how players use these mathmatics that has cause trouble.... I know I'm sure I even have mathed up my drg build but idk anything about spreadhseets or stuff like that so I just go off of experience..

[Asymptotic]

People use math and statistics to help them play more effectively and advise other players on how to do the same. This is troubling for you?

[Demon6324236]

yes some pieces for ws'ing..but really that's only a belt.1 Piece of WS gear.


IDK my acc but i know i have alot in my gear and even with all the gear I have I'm still missing Transcendental scorpion; with carbonara evenYou don't know your accuracy rate on it, yet you use Carbonara (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Carbonara), a food which gives no accuracy, instead of something like Sole Sushi (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Sole_Sushi) which gives a large deal of accuracy, or at least Marinara Pizza (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Marinara_Pizza) which gives less accuracy but attack as well.


drg isn't even considered a Full fledged DD, such as sam or war, or drk... I like my utility tyI forgot, how exactly does making your job do more damage rob you of your utility? It doesn't, at all, unless your to lazy to do multiple things well on your job.

I am done trying to help you, you obviously want no help. I told you the answer to your question, how those were better options, I guess that facts were not good enough. Things like Accuracy and such, are yes, situational, but on DRG anything outside of Delve NMs you should never have a problem hitting, you know what you do for those NMs? Change things up a little bit, get out some real accuracy food, not a lackluster DD food like Carbonara which I don't even understand why you used in the first place. But whatever, just keep on being subpar, keep on thinking you are doing so well at this game, because I did try to help, I presented options and facts of why they are better, and when they are better, but rather than accept them, you argue they are not. Thank you for wasting my time making me think there was the slightest hope of making you perform better by giving you accurate information when you asked for it, I hope maybe sometime you will become more accepting of facts, and stop thinking its all just 'hypothetical math' so that you can truly improve, but I give up on helping, as I do not wish to carry on yet another pointless derailment.

[Daemon]

I concur but it's how players use these mathmatics that has cause trouble.... I know I'm sure I even have mathed up my drg build but idk anything about spreadhseets or stuff like that so I just go off of experience..

This is my Opinion, not fact, but the way I see it from my point of View.

I have to agree with Umichi, yet I was beginning to think I was a loner. Math and mechanics does not define the players skill and experiance. Maybe it can provide you information on a limited aspect of what's being defined but do know these calculations can be changed on muliple factors. While its great to have capped gear such as Cure Potency 50%. What's the point of utilizing something everytime if the situation doesn't require it? Especially if it can cause a conflict in the thing you are doing? So if 50% cure potency helps you conserve mp but you need a different gear set such as store TP/Haste to compliment your ability to raise TP on a weapon and had to switch over to Magian Arka IV just to gain 10% more Cure potency to reach 50% cap, you are willing to cancel out your goal or raising TP for that 10%?

Limited macro ability also cannot allow you to set every game play action for every single move.

Refresh Idle is good, but then you are sacrificing slots in the equipment list that could change the purpose you are trying to accomplish. If you are a mage standing close to DDs all the time Occassionally receiving damage, would you rather wear Refresh Idle for the sake of keeping up MP so you can switch over to Cure Potency 50% to heal yourself? Or Just wear -PDT gear to lower the amount of damage taken while having Regen V up and let the Regen handle the job rather than spend extra effort and time switching sets and curing yourself?

Then again if Regen V was used on both examples. The person switching sets using Cure Potency 50% spends more time and effort and MP on doing 2 tasks than the person who wore -PDT and let the Regen do the job. And if the damage wasn't that bad, then you switched over to conserve MP for max cure potency for what reason? Because its faster? Throw in paralyze and then the situation will change on both examples because of time. We can't predict if both persons will be able to remove the buff or become stalled.

And this is where people can overook Skills and Experiance only relying on Mathematics and Mechanics. Unless you are genius and know every single answer to every single aspect of gameplay using math and mechanics then a genius would also know that Skills and experiance plays an important roll too because unless you are a mind reader, you cannot predict the outcome of every single detail and situation in battle.

I believe relying only on Mathematics and Mechanics hurts those who use it to map out their game play. To me it sounds like a robot following instructions. Rather than have any personality in the way a robot performs, ignoring various options to deal with multiple situations all because it follows only what is considered best through statistics is no fun at all. Which can lead to not using several of the functions is has available because its a waste of time compared to what their calculations proves to be better. Unless you are Genius Robot programmed to know every answer to every problem, I see many players who only know the details on a few things but not all and try to argue with others as if they did and this is where conflicts happen between people.

You are free to debate, but that's just my opinion. Nothing fact, but my take on how I see it.

And before writing all of the above I learned this through Experience. I'm horrible when it comes to math.

[Karbuncle]

Until you understand that this isn't just your game it's everyones and we all play under the same roof and as such we shouldn't be kicked to the ground because in your eyes we are "Terrible", you'll never understand the mind frame I have towards such things as mainly subbing whm, or trying to find that great piece of gear I always wanted *drools at gungnir*

I really envy your optimism and hope for a better tomorrow, But what you're asking for here is so impractical for a human it feels like it could be the ending of a "Friendship solves everything" episode of Yu-Gi-Oh or Naruto.

FFXI, hell the world, Isn't like what you're suggesting. There's a right way, couple "It'll get the job done", then theres hundreds of wrong ways, and in FFXI and life, If you do it "It'll get the job done" way, those who value "Doing it right the first time" are less likely to do it with you, you see what I'm saying?

I understand the mindframe of subbing WHM in hopes your heals can assist in keeping people alive, But you seem to, while throwing us needing to understand, thoroughly not understand how FFXI Works and how the playerbase see's things Your playstyle isn't more attuned to Alliances than it is Parties, your playstyle is tuned to exp parties circa 2004-5 and No ones going back to that, ever.

So yes, I get the idea of wanting to say, have -Na spells, or being able cure with your wyvern, and so forth, a more support friendly role that DRG/WHM used to be able to kinda fill... But you need to understand that yes, thats terrible. Having only 14% haste in your Melee set is also terrible. If you did read my last paragraph, You'll understand If you chose to continue this way I won't mind, You play how you want to play and thats all there is to it, But whats not questionable, whats not debateable, is your playstyle is not getting you any long term invites from respectable or successful players.

You probably play a decent DRG/WHM, But I can show you a DRG/SAM with top tier gear, who switches to /WHM, and he'll instantly be better then you even if he's never touched /WHM before. Because he's got better gear and can bring more to the table than you will, This is the sad truth of FFXI. Its not opinion, its not conjecture, its fact... DRG is a DD, and while it can clearly cover a DD/Healing standpoint, its really just an insult to your Healers that you think they can't handle it, and no ones going to invite a 14% Haste DRG/WHM who full times 1 set of armor.

Its not that I don't get your way of thinking, that you believe DRG/WHM brings more flexibility to the alliance, But honestly if they wanted a DDhealer they've of invited a good DNC, not a DRG/WHM. Truthfully, You could probably pull off DRG/WHM if you had good sets for everything, TP, WS, etc, But you don't, so yes, Umichi, while i'm very sorry for offending you here, your playstyle, your gear sets, all of it is very sub par and dysfunctional in the FFXI universe. It make work in your vacuum of an area because its all you know, but in alliance, party, and situations circa 2013, This playstyle is not wanted or even needed. Even if we didn't "Zerg" everything, again, a good DNC > DRG/WHM any day of the week as a Frontline DD/Healer.

Do i wish it was different? yes, I wish this game was made so that competency could win events and not just gear/job selection, I wish ingenuity and strategy was rewarded more, but its not... Its about Gear, its about the right job, and the pompous rule endgame, its a sad state of affairs but its the cold reality we live in. We either adapt, deal with being called mediocre/gimp, or quit. I chose the last option, but there's always hope for you.

[Xantavia]

People use math and statistics to help them play more effectively and advise other players on how to do the same. This is troubling for you?
It is troubling depending on how much leeway they give when going for optimal. Where do they set the cutoff for what jobs will be allowed? If for arguments sake a WAR can do 10K damage to a boss, will they still take a DRG if it will only do 9K in the same amount of time? Or will those players be so worried about efficiency that bringing a drg instead of war will add an extra minute or two to the fight and therefore be unacceptable.

[Asymptotic]

Yes they will still take a DRG, because DRG has Angon and bosses shift between being weak to the four different damage types (Magic, Blunt, Slashing, Piercing).

[Umichi]

Do i wish it was different? yes, I wish this game was made so that competency could win events and not just gear/job selection, I wish ingenuity and strategy was rewarded more, but its not... Its about Gear, its about the right job, and the pompous rule endgame, its a sad state of affairs but its the cold reality we live in. We either adapt, deal with being called mediocre/gimp, or quit. I chose the last option, but there's always hope for you.

It still is and can be based on both skill and gear.... If you want things to be different you yourself have to make the change... but don't be telling me I'm "Bad" because it goes against the conventional thinking.

[Daemon]

.

It still is and can be based on both skill and gear.... If you want things to be different you yourself have to make the change... but don't be telling me I'm "Bad" because it goes against the conventional thinking.

Lol don't worry Umichi, not everyone is like us. I mean some people can't understand that we like all types of music, love eating different types of food and don't look at the label of how many calories or carbs are in it or whether its good or bad but the fact that we like it and our experience tells us when it's best not to eat too much rather than someone tell us what we already know and make our own decisions to our liking.

[Rekin]

What you are mistaking is that they aren't against your tastes which is what you listed what they are against is your belief that sub-optimal play is worth the trouble to bring to an event that takes up OTHER people's time and thus chancing a larger percent by bringing in you because its different.

You(not specifically Daemon or Umichi just those who follow their philosophy) see it as taste, we(by we I mean the hardcore player base) see it as effectiveness. You might see using a gungnir(for the sake of arguing its 99) is worth bringing to a delve mega boss fight over the Delve boss polearm for that 10%(maybe less) chance at def down that overwrites angon. We see it as being as irrational as headbutting a brick wall. People may not see eye to eye on small differences but when you advertise doing things that will waste their time and will ultimately gain them no recognition in worth for joining the endgame scene we feel the need to call out on such practice as it may lead them to despairing on them not being able to "do anything" because they spent too much time on something that held no worth to the playerbase to begin with.

Imagine this I want to become a CEO of a construction firm and thus go to college for the qualifications but instead of making connections and devoting myself strickly to study I am unable to achieve my goal because I spent too much time on something that had some worth but did not adhere to what was really important to my peers.

This is the disconnect. Yes this is a game but realize not everyone has all the time in the world to humor people they have no attachment too when considering high end events that can make or break a LS's morale.

[Daemon]

What you are mistaking is that they aren't against your tastes which is what you listed what they are against is your belief that sub-optimal play is worth the trouble to bring to an event that takes up OTHER people's time and thus chancing a larger percent by bringing in you because its different.

You(not specifically Daemon or Umichi just those who follow their philosophy) see it as taste, we(by we I mean the hardcore player base) see it as effectiveness. You might see using a gungnir(for the sake of arguing its 99) is worth bringing to a delve mega boss fight over the Delve boss polearm for that 10%(maybe less) chance at def down that overwrites angon. We see it as being as irrational as headbutting a brick wall. People may not see eye to eye on small differences but when you advertise doing things that will waste their time and will ultimately gain them no recognition in worth for joining the endgame scene we feel the need to call out on such practice as it may lead them to despairing on them not being able to "do anything" because they spent too much time on something that held no worth to the playerbase to begin with.

Imagine this I want to become a CEO of a construction firm and thus go to college for the qualifications but instead of making connections and devoting myself strickly to study I am unable to achieve my goal because I spent too much time on something that had some worth but did not adhere to what was really important to my peers.

This is the disconnect. Yes this is a game but realize not everyone has all the time in the world to humor people they have no attachment too when considering high end events that can make or break a LS's morale.

There's more ways to beat a boss than the typical setups I've seen in the majority of the NA parties I've been in. In JP parties I've seen some odd setups that make you turn around and think how the heck was it possible and they've proven to me that it doesn't matter what statistics, mechanics and math you follow, you need skills, experience, organization, focus, teamwork, strategy, backup plan, a lot of qualities that I see are missing from those who only follow math, statistics and mechanics while that may work for some people, Both Umichi and I are saying that limiting yourself by ignoring other abilities over what others think is proven to be the most effective way on paper does not mean this is the only way to win. Gear really doesn't play for you. It's how you use the gear through strategy that makes the difference. Whether you have the best or not, experience and skill is important. Gear is a plus.

Make use with what you have and not what you don't rather than demand those to have only what you want.

[Demon6324236]

but don't be telling me I'm "Bad" because it goes against the conventional thinking.Its not that what you are thinking is unconventional, its that what you are thinking is, well, stupid. Holding back damage so a subpar job can tank, intentionally gimping damage with /WHM in any party which already has a WHM instead of letting the WHM do its job, using terrible food instead of proper food even when proper food is cheaper, and failing to acknowledge the power of proper swaps and putting them to use correctly. These are the reasons, your method of thinking matters not one bit to me, or anyone else here I'm sure, but the fact you do all of these things which make no sense to any high end player, and then attempting to say why its fine, or labeling it under 'play style' is nothing more than meaninglessly annoying to me. I dealt with my GF throwing up the same arguments as you are when I fought with her about gear swaps & macros for a long time, and since that's the case, I am going to guess your as stubborn and set in your ways thinking your right. If that's how you are, so be it, continue to do whatever you want and be worse off for it, but do not mistake the real reason people say your bad, I at least, do no say your bad because of your way of thinking, but the things you say & do are completely foolish for any player to do, and to just close your eyes and pretend your right about things is doing nothing but harm to your abilities in game.

[Hawklaser]

First on the issue of the Instant Protect Scrolls. Normal duration Protect 3 items, that do not have multiple charges or stack, is a bit absurd. For a couple of reasons, cost effectiveness compared to Field Manual buffs, and even paying others to cast them on you, and that is not even mentioning the passing good samaritan mages that will toss out some buffs when passing by in the field, the other big reason is inventory space it just is not worth taking up an inventory slot for a 1 shot short duration buff outside of very specific situations. Now I can see a few uses for the instant scrolls, but those are rather limited and involve needing to sub something without access to the spells, such as NM camping, BCNM style fights that wipe buffs, and limit fights like Maat.

On to the tangential DRG stuff now.

DRG/mage has its uses in groups, and that is usually in low man situations like duoing or trioing, or events like Nyzul Isle where group has to be fairly split up and the self sufficiency would make things easier. However, in most full group or alliance events, should be using /war or /sam, along with a few other situational ones like /thf, and that is because they perform much better at DRG's primary role of being a low enmity DD, least that is the role I have always seen DRG fitting in as. DRG just also has the option of becoming a low maintenance/light support healing DD as well when needed based on its subjob. Key thing is knowing when and why to use specific subjobs with DRG.

For gear swaps, I don't agree with the mentality of having to swap all but ones weapon for every ability and weapon skill, and that is because of the built in limitations of the games native macros. Though I do use gear swaps where it makes sense and doesn't overly cram my inventory. Some examples, swapping int/mnd rings for spell casting, Drg AF boots for old jumps, Elemental belts/gorgets for weaponskills. Another thing I like to do is have alternates for some pieces of equipment based off of my food choices and subjob, which at 75cap on DRG was Sole Sushi and Carbonara. I would start in +Acc gear and no food for the mobs would be fighting to find out which food I would get more benefit out of with available buffs applied. If I had to use Sushi, I would swap as much of my acc gear as I could to attack related gear, and then adjust in additional Acc if needed. Now as a DRG, if you are fighting something that needs both Acc food and gear to reach a reasonable hit rate, every DD is going to be having problems hitting or there is something wrong going on. If I had some of the best attack gear available I would work in the other direction, but still adjusting towards one point, frequently landing consistently high damage, which is what all DD's should strive towards along with not getting killed while doing said damage.

[Daemon]

Its not that what you are thinking is unconventional, its that what you are thinking is, well, stupid. Holding back damage so a subpar job can tank, intentionally gimping damage with /WHM in any party which already has a WHM instead of letting the WHM do its job, using terrible food instead of proper food even when proper food is cheaper, and failing to acknowledge the power of proper swaps and putting them to use correctly. These are the reasons, your method of thinking matters not one bit to me, or anyone else here I'm sure, but the fact you do all of these things which make no sense to any high end player, and then attempting to say why its fine, or labeling it under 'play style' is nothing more than meaninglessly annoying to me. I dealt with my GF throwing up the same arguments as you are when I fought with her about gear swaps & macros for a long time, and since that's the case, I am going to guess your as stubborn and set in your ways thinking your right. If that's how you are, so be it, continue to do whatever you want and be worse off for it, but do not mistake the real reason people say your bad, I at least, do no say your bad because of your way of thinking, but the things you say & do are completely foolish for any player to do, and to just close your eyes and pretend your right about things is doing nothing but harm to your abilities in game.

What I don't understand is, why does it matter so much to the point that others have to criticize? I mean don't get me wrong I understand your point. If it was T5 bosses where having Max skill STILL doesn't suffice and require you to have other people to help you not miss I can understand.

Regardless of who deals damage as a DD, only 1 person is going to out damage everyone.

The other day I joined a Tax'et party. At 1 moment I ran out of MP spending so much time curing WHM (and yes 50% cure potency) who stood too close range with no -PDT and took AOE damage. The Dragoon in my party used pet to cure and it did make a difference.

Not a godly difference but enough to appreciate.

But look at the situation. This is only 1 person...

Now think about how it would be if 18 people chipped in and helped each other with massive team work? But how can they when hybrid aren't welcome and everyone is strict to playing certain roll in party?

Yet I don't see this often because the way NA parties favor only the best and leave out several unique jobs that could change the way the party plays.

4 random parties I've join are so fixed on having 3 bards and 2 corsair... Really? It's so messy that the bards use soul voice and a couple minutes later pop NM. So unorganized. Then song wears off... No one even puts songs back up... Really??

So at end game Im failing to understand why parties are created this way.
All for the purpose of having 6 songs up? How many stat buffs does Fenrir give as 1 job vs 3 bards?

Unless...

This is the result of never partying with different jobs because people base judgement on numbers and what they think is the best. Instead of trying other things.

Or... They just don't know the potential of every job and only stick with what they know or think works from watching others make their party setups.

I've seen JP parties do so many unique setups and realize. There more than 1 way to kill a boss. Regardless of the jobs you have it can still be done.

Now think back when we all started the game. We didn't know statistics, mechanics, numbers. We just leveled up, teamed up , went for it and if we died, we tried to figure out other ways to fight until we won. Not even caring about stats.

But because you all know gear, stats, numbers, statistics, parsing, gear set listing online, only the best and nothing less.. Your way of thinking has been altered. I would have thought at 99 people would have many different strategies like you see several jobs post different testimonies of different jobs and setup explaining that its possible to do it different ways..

One thing I love about my JP LS family. They don't care what job or sub you play. Or if we even lose. As long as we have fun. That's all that matters. Why? It's a video game.

[Kraggy]

and failing to acknowledge the power of proper swaps and putting them to use correctly.
That 'correctly' of course implicitly infers you have to use a TOS-breaking third-party app, as I expect 99% of the min/maxers in this thread do, because most of the swapping stuff I read about, players claiming to have a full gear set for nearly every WS they can use, clearly aren't using the game's 'limited by design' macro system to do it.

[Daemon]

That 'correctly' of course implicitly infers you have to use a TOS-breaking third-party app, as I expect 99% of the min/maxers in this thread do, because most of the swapping stuff I read about, players claiming to have a full gear set for nearly every WS they can use, clearly aren't using the game's 'limited by design' macro system to do it.

Sad to say I fall into the 1% of the 99% then. I never use 3rd party software for anything. And yes macro suxs. I need to use 3 slots in order to macro a full entire set. And when you are switching at a moment with only a few seconds like casting a Tier 4 Blackmage spell and then switch over to MAB set during cast, sometimes not all pieces will change. New elemental update is going to make Spellcasting faster so this is going to be another issue. Nuking without even seeing the graphics of the spell because it went off too fast before your sprite reloads.

Horrible in my opinion and yet it would be tempting to use a 3rd party software to fix this obstacle, Im just one of those who believe in playing the way the game was designed regardless.

[Demon6324236]

That 'correctly' of course implicitly infers you have to use a TOS-breaking third-party app, as I expect 99% of the min/maxers in this thread do, because most of the swapping stuff I read about, players claiming to have a full gear set for nearly every WS they can use, clearly aren't using the game's 'limited by design' macro system to do it.Nope, correctly meaning at least swapping 5 pieces with a macro and then 5 back, he said he swaps a belt, that's not really swapping anything. Besides that, do you know how easily you can make a set of macros for full scale swaps without windower? Simple. You make 5 lines be gear swaps for the first 2 macros you make every line a piece of gear except the last one, which changes your page to the next page, then on the 3rd, you put the WS right before the page swap, then you put 3 more macros which put you in TP gear again. Yes, it takes 6 pages, and is less effective, if you play with a keyboard, you can literally do this all in a matter of 2 seconds by holding down CTRL & hitting the number for the WS 6 times, you have to have a little delay in the middle, but its possible to do. Does it take Windower? No, is it more annoying? Yes, but is it possible? Also, yes, so to say it takes a 3PP to do, no, that's wrong, it doesn't, I have met a few people who do full swaps without the use of windower. If you want to that that 1 step further, you can use multiple books for a job, and cut it down to 5 macros instead of 6, for each swap. Then you can have half of a book with enough macros for 40 actions in total, and then a macro at the end of your page, on 0, which takes you to your 'home page' which is a book or page that displays all possible books or pages for that job, then use macros there to send you to the right page. This idea comes from a friend who does use Windower, but he uses this for his SCH, so he has 1 page with all of his different types of macros on it, which send him wherever in his book he needs to go for the situation. Its very effective, and I assume a player without Windower can do the same to simulate better swaps & such as though Windower were involved, without actually breaking the TOS.

[Umichi]

[QUOTE=Hawklaser;452610]First on the issue of the Instant Protect Scrolls. Normal duration Protect 3 items, that do not have multiple charges or stack, is a bit absurd. For a couple of reasons, cost effectiveness compared to Field Manual buffs, and even paying others to cast them on you, and that is not even mentioning the passing good samaritan mages that will toss out some buffs when passing by in the field, the other big reason is inventory space it just is not worth taking up an inventory slot for a 1 shot short duration buff outside of very specific situations. Now I can see a few uses for the instant scrolls, but those are rather limited and involve needing to sub something without access to the spells, such as NM camping, BCNM style fights that wipe buffs, and limit fights like Maat.

you can't compare cost effectiveness to field manuals as they are not readily available all around the gaming world.. but if you wanna compare grabbing your first tabs for a protect when your just starting out takes just about as long as running to the nearest biouvac and back again for the points for a protect scroll, and tabs later on take mayhap a bit longer longer as you have to find mobs that rank EP (or is it DC?) and that requires even more traveling ^^

I don't think these scrolls were intended for your everyday use albiet they can be if a person puts the time in to invest in a bayld stock

[Hawklaser]

[QUOTE]

you can't compare cost effectiveness to field manuals as they are not readily available all around the gaming world.. but if you wanna compare grabbing your first tabs for a protect when your just starting out takes just about as long as running to the nearest biouvac and back again for the points for a protect scroll, and tabs later on take mayhap a bit longer longer as you have to find mobs that rank EP (or is it DC?) and that requires even more traveling ^^

I don't think these scrolls were intended for your everyday use albiet they can be if a person puts the time in to invest in a bayld stock

You can compare them, main differences between them is portability, travel time, effect, and resource cost. If you do any XPing outside of Abyssea prior to 99 tabs are really easy to accumulate. The instant scrolls are not readily available for obtainment either, difference here is can delay activation of them until in the area you need them for. It only takes EPs to count for pages, and there are numerous pages that involve EPs at 99, there are even a few with ones using T mobs, and those pages grant an average of around 150 tabs for the first completion. Really though, most people are not going to go out of their way to obtain GoV buffs or instant scrolls for protect/shell unless they are doing very specific events solo, and at those times I think they are going to opt for the stronger version the Books grant instead of a scroll unless the event wipes buffs on entry.

[Godofgods]

There is a reason that warp/RR scroll were lowered in price drasticly before ppl really started useing them...

[Babekeke]

you can't compare cost effectiveness to field manuals as they are not readily available all around the gaming world.. but if you wanna compare grabbing your first tabs for a protect when your just starting out takes just about as long as running to the nearest biouvac and back again for the points for a protect scroll, and tabs later on take mayhap a bit longer longer as you have to find mobs that rank EP (or is it DC?) and that requires even more traveling ^^

I don't think these scrolls were intended for your everyday use albiet they can be if a person puts the time in to invest in a bayld stock

Due to the fact that you can get a warp directly from the same book that you're buying your protect buff from, you can be just about anywhere in Vana'Diel within 5 mins of obtaining protect buff from GoV. Personally If I need protect for a solo event, I'll either grab a scroll of instant warp from NPC in Jeuno then head out to use FoV, or I'll OP warp to Qufim, zone into delkfutts and get it there, then use book warp back to adoulin. From adoulin you cna either warp to most areas in Adoulin, or back to Jeuno, or if it's really obscure, to a waypoint throughout the older areas.
If you warped to Jeuno, you can then run out to Rolanberry fields and VW warp to wherever you wanted to be, though if doing this, you should have got book protect before using VW warp anyway.

Pre-VW, it took a while to get to a lot of places. Now, it doesn't. Book pro/shell are your friends. Scrolls are only useful if your event will last longer than 30 mins and there's not another book where you're going.

However, scrolls are still way over-priced.