New Requirement for plasm farming groups to help those who dont have it.

[Spectreman]

If SE created a requirement that to be able to receive plasm from farming, alliances had to have at least 6 players without a single delve weapon in their account, not only that character, the whole account.

That would force players to pick up those unfortunate that didn't get their delve weapons within the first month and now can't participate in this main feature of Seekers of Adoulin expansion unless they whore themselves into specific jobs nobody wants to play as.


Less elitism, less concentration of power for those who are already OP in the game. At the same time contributing to expand players contact by accepting new players into the fray.

[Tennotsukai]

I completely agree with this. With the way things are going, the game is going to get less and less popular with the requirements of 18 people of the 5-7 jobs required to do the content. I can't play my favorite jobs anymore so I'm taking a break to see if they make some fixes in the future.

I would like to start logging in, solo some content for plasm for 30-40 minutes without having to wait about 2 hours for a party to get started. I miss campaign sometimes...

[Demon6324236]

And then when everyone has a Delve weapon Plasm can no longer be obtained? This idea... needs more thinking and less pointless action.

[Zagen]

And then when everyone has a Delve weapon Plasm can no longer be obtained? This idea... needs more thinking and less pointless action.

WHM/Healer, BRD, and/or COR dual box mules...

Also that's the counter to the initial idea of bringing "gimp" players.

I like the concept but that's essentially what would happen. Removing the Wildskeeper clear requirement and/or turning the NMs into pop with bead instead of depop are better options that would allow bringing "gimp" players because they themselves could setup the runs.

[Vizzer]

I don't have have R/M/E/D weapon, so I can't a dd spot for delve, I have bard and white mage leveled to 99, but I don't have full AF3 gears for white mage, or the Empy harp for bard, and have been turned down everytime I have tried to get in on a group with them, because it is easy to get players that have that. I don't have Corsair leveled, because I don't enjoy playing the job, I don't have a relic or empy shield, so that's a nogo for paladin, and that's about it, I haven't been able to get in on a single delve group yet, call it bad luck or whatever you want, but I am now just burning time in between FFXIV beta runs. I won't even think about resubbing once I can sub FFXIV, part is that is such a better game, but I could sub both if they were both fun, but XI isn't fun now thanks to the players. I got in on a merit party today killing worms in Abyssea, and the whole time some prick was going on and on about how even the ones that were killing worms were leeching because "those scrubs didn't have a delve weapon." The players of this game is the biggest reason I won't be resubbing, and I have a feeling that I am just one of many.

[Demon6324236]

WHM/Healer, BRD, and/or COR dual box mules...

Also that's the counter to the initial idea of bringing "gimp" players.My point was that if you had to have 6 people without any Delve weapons at all on the entire account, not simply character, that severely limits things, not only for those joining, but without bringing mules or people who literally will never get one because of that stupid rule you would end up killing off Delve completely once everyone has the weapons. Its a flawed idea, it basically means once everyone has one of these weapons Delve is unable to be done because at that point, you would not be able to fill the 6 non-Delve requirement.

[OmnysValefor]

This is a bad idea.

A.) What about the alliances killing NMs? They couldn't do that with 6 sorely gimped people.
B.) Alliances would just start charging for spots. In today's market, it would be at least 500k-1m per spot.
C.) Noone wants to feel like they're forced to do anything.

[Lisotte]

This is a bad idea.

B.) Alliances would just start charging for spots. In today's market, it would be at least 500k-1m per spot.

Not disagreeing with your post as a whole, but you can definitely make that gil back from selling airlixirs.

[Olor]

I have no problems getting into alliances on my decent yet not fantastic bard. Sorry but, someone has to play the "undesirable" jobs - you know why they are undesirable? Because some gimp DD will b-tch you out for not pulling perfectly or cause they didn't get a status removal immediately, while all they do is stand there, auto attack, use a couple JA and fire off a WS once in awhile... Probably without even using a macro.

(Lots of DD are awesome, don't get me wrong, but for serious, we know these people exist)

So yeah, if I put in my time on BRD or any other "undesirable" job so I can build up enough plasm to get a decent weapon and the good gear peices for my DD - yeah, I do deserve a spot in a party as a dd more than someone who isn't willing to do what it takes to be useful to groups.

[Zagen]

My point was that if you had to have 6 people without any Delve weapons at all on the entire account, not simply character, that severely limits things, not only for those joining, but without bringing mules or people who literally will never get one because of that stupid rule you would end up killing off Delve completely once everyone has the weapons. Its a flawed idea, it basically means once everyone has one of these weapons Delve is unable to be done because at that point, you would not be able to fill the 6 non-Delve requirement.

And my point about mentioning mules with common mule jobs (WHM, SCH, RDM, BRD, COR) was because those jobs don't require Delve weapons to function meaning they could forever be used.

[BorkBorkBork]

Oh good lord. Bite the bullet, play what you may not like to get plasm for a delve weapon. Improve your DD then you can fill one of those spots.

[Leatherman]

I don't know what jobs you are talking about but WHM, BRD, PLD, PUP, COR, GEO, RUN to name a few... These jobs don't need Delve weapons to compete. BRD always wanted and not too difficult to gear up. WHM just need refresh gear and some skills. COR doesn't need anything fancy, GEO as well. RUN is a parry tank but awesome for magic evasion. So I'm not sure what you are talking about. Level up a support job, everyone should.

[Zirael]

I don't have have R/M/E/D weapon, so I can't a dd spot for delve, I have bard and white mage leveled to 99, but I don't have full AF3 gears for white mage, or the Empy harp for bard, and have been turned down everytime I have tried to get in on a group with them, because it is easy to get players that have that. I don't have Corsair leveled, because I don't enjoy playing the job, I don't have a relic or empy shield, so that's a nogo for paladin, and that's about it, I haven't been able to get in on a single delve group yet, call it bad luck or whatever you want, but I am now just burning time in between FFXIV beta runs. I won't even think about resubbing once I can sub FFXIV, part is that is such a better game, but I could sub both if they were both fun, but XI isn't fun now thanks to the players. I got in on a merit party today killing worms in Abyssea, and the whole time some prick was going on and on about how even the ones that were killing worms were leeching because "those scrubs didn't have a delve weapon." The players of this game is the biggest reason I won't be resubbing, and I have a feeling that I am just one of many.
You can make your own run and choose to come whatever job you want to play. Also, since you know how hard it is for you, you could restrict entry to your group to only people who don't have R/M/E/D to help out other fellow players in similar situation to yours.

[raps1355]

I cant help but notice that anyone saying they cant get into delve because they cant go as DD or cant buy the KI for the wep because they wont make a shout for it.

I also noticed someone said their support jobs were getting turned away because they were missing abyssea gear but what i dont get is why people are jumping from pre abyssea gear to highest lvl delve and complaining that they wont be accepted?

Its not eliteism to request someone have the gear before the said event as thats how it was made by SE, it was not made for everyone at any stage of their characters development.

I also missed the KI's before the 20 min change over but i made shouts myself and have all 6 KI and no there was no ls or friends etc it was pure 17 random pick up groups outside of prime time's and yes some of those runs timed out but i tried again.

[Spectreman]

I see lots of people who are hoarding mutiple delve weapons here complaining that others should stay away from delve weapons unless they invest a lot of time to get a decent support job geared. Yes, because taking a whm, cor or brd with level 78 gear wont get you far and aiming for af3+2 set will take months in the game current state without linkshells to support this.

I know you guys got everything very easy and fast since you were there at day 1 but this kind of attitude only helps to widen the gap between you and those coming back or starting from scratch. When your LS mates start getting tired of having everything and quit the game you will find yourselves having a horrible hard time to get events done because there will be no players capable of replace them.

This selfish behavior can't be tolerated anymore in a game 11 years old with a much smaller community. Square Enix have to address this problem and stop this elitist behavior by making it necessary to have DD players without delve weapons to be able to experience delve and their rewards, even if in a slower pace.

[Demon6324236]

I see lots of people who are hoarding mutiple delve weapons here complaining that others should stay away from delve weapons unless they invest a lot of time to get a decent support job geared. Yes, because taking a whm, cor or brd with level 78 gear wont get you far and aiming for af3+2 set will take months in the game current state without linkshells to support this.No one in any game should expect to go to an event with gear that is 20 levels behind and expect a party when there is easily obtainable gear out there which is much better. +2s are not as hard as you think, I assure you. 2 of my friends came back to the game about 3 months or so ago, 1 was WHM the other DRG, in about a month I took them from some +1 gear crossed with cheap AH gear and teal/perle into a well geared WHM with 450ish Enhancing and a DRG with a good TP and WS set. I spent about 2~3 hours a night with them, sometimes it was a bit longer, but the point being it took a month to completely redo their jobs and gear them well. What exactly do you think you need for a support job? So far as I understand, and correct me if I am wrong, most shouts expect a BRD to be able to March(+1~4 is fine), Ballad, have capped merits in Night/Troup, and have some magic accuracy gear maybe for landing sleep. COR needs to be able to roll, sleep, and that's about all that is required, some DD too which is awesome, but I have yet to see a group complain the COR was not DDing, instead most complaints I see are that the COR is not pulling, something you need no gear to do except maybe movement speed, but if you sleep pull, works just as well. WHM you just need the Cure Potency staff, Bokwus Gloves, and +2 Head, Body, and Legs, that puts you at 47% Cure Potency with +2Fresh, tons of MP power from legs, and the Cureskin bonus, Enhancing magic helps too along with some other stuff, but this is the basics you can easily get in a week or so if you shout for some groups or spend time soloing it.


I know you guys got everything very easy and fast since you were there at day 1 but this kind of attitude only helps to widen the gap between you and those coming back or starting from scratch. When your LS mates start getting tired of having everything and quit the game you will find yourselves having a horrible hard time to get events done because there will be no players capable of replace them.I have had this happen, in fact I ask my LS for very little anymore cause it seems like most of them refuse to help with things, so I shout for what I need. Shouting almost always works, what it does not work for is often easy, Abyssea is one of those things, and even if it were not easy, I have met a few people in worm parties and such who are leveling jobs they need seals for soon or +2s, and then team up with them. A LS is not the only place to find help, there are many sources, if you look only to a linkshell for assistance then you will rob yourself of many opportunities.


This selfish behavior can't be tolerated anymore in a game 11 years old with a much smaller community. Square Enix have to address this problem and stop this elitist behavior by making it necessary to have DD players without delve weapons to be able to experience delve and their rewards, even if in a slower pace.This type of requirement will do nothing for the kind of player you speak of, those same players will be forced to come support all the same. What makes you think if I shout for Delve and want 3WHM, 3BRD, and 3COR, that I would pick to have 1 of my 8 DDs be without a Delve weapon? Half my party is support jobs which I could care less what weapon they have, why would I not force them to come support if they do not have these weapons? Its a flawed idea, I said that already, this is one of the reasons, the other being like I said before, when everyone has one, or the great majority interested in them, what happens? Delve dies?

If you can explain things around these flaws be my guest.

[Secondplanet]

I am having this problem right now, between my wife (capped cure pot) myself almost all +2 emp gear we still can't get into a party cause everyone is demanding whm's to have Arise (currently selling for over 10mil) and for brd to have a emp 90+ harp we can't get a party cause they don't consider us "veterans".

The other problem coming out of this is that LS's are charging 30mil+ to join on runs to get your KI's. My wife and i have both been playing support jobs since 75 was still the cap and worked hard on these jobs and know them very well. But i guess that doesn't make us "veterans" and only having the best of the best counts as that.

[Limecat]

What they could do instead is have beagles flying around via propeller beanies that randomly swoop down into towns and drop those breakable crates. Whoever smashes one gets a random Delve boss KI.

[Hayward]

I'm sorry, but Mr. Matsui's going the wrong way as far as new content's concerned and the playerbase isn't helping the matter with these absurd requirements (Aegis/Ochain PLD, Daurdabla/Gyallarhorn BRD, delve weapons only for DPS jobs, etc.). I swear this game is intentionally being killed off by the developers with the unwitting assistance of the elitists.

Is it any wonder why there were under 1,000 players on my server two days ago?

[Demon6324236]

I am having this problem right now, between my wife (capped cure pot) myself almost all +2 emp gear we still can't get into a party cause everyone is demanding whm's to have Arise (currently selling for over 10mil) and for brd to have a emp 90+ harp we can't get a party cause they don't consider us "veterans".I suppose Phoenix is one of the servers which don't do that, as I have never seen either of those requirements at all, and in all honesty, WHM having Arise should never matter except for a full boss run because unless you are doing that, no one should die anyways... The BRD thing I understand but at the same time its even more ridiculous than the problems for PLD, at least Ochain and Aegis make a large difference in performance, a 3rd song is awesome but not nearly as groundbreaking... In either case, the shouts are stupid, and I am against them all the same.


The other problem coming out of this is that LS's are charging 30mil+ to join on runs to get your KI's. My wife and i have both been playing support jobs since 75 was still the cap and worked hard on these jobs and know them very well. But i guess that doesn't make us "veterans" and only having the best of the best counts as that.Its the same problem all jobs have though, playing a long time is something no one can tell, and even if you play a long time, you can still suck. The point I am trying to make here is that without seeing someone in action you can not say if they are good or not personally, and so gear is the next best thing to go by in most cases. I agree its stupid, but it is sadly how the player base is.


I'm sorry, but Mr. Matsui's going the wrong way as far as new content's concernedI agree


the playerbase isn't helping the matter with these absurd requirements (Aegis/Ochain PLD, Daurdabla/Gyallarhorn BRD, delve weapons only for DPS jobs, etc.). I swear this game is intentionally being killed off by the developers with the unwitting assistance of the elitists.I agree and disagree. As many people as there are which complain about the fact people shout for such specific things you would think those same people would have a few who make their own parties to relieve such a problem. I myself hate that so many people have those requirements, always have, but the simple fact is that people do it because they know they can, and will still fill their parties. We can complain all day that they do it, it will change nothing, and SE will not stop people from excluding others in their shouts, how would they? Make it ban worthy offence? Doubtful, they cant even ban people who put currency in their Bazaar for 10~100 times the normal price to rip others off, why would they stop exclusionary shouts for content?

Its said every time these kind of complaints are made, and it always sounds like the rude response, but it is a true response. If you do not like these kind of shouts, make your own, more open, shout groups, everyone like yourself will thank you for it. Even if your like me and hate making them, think of the good your doing for yourself and others like you, should make it worth it in the end I would think.

[bloodbeat]

It is truly questionable logic to introduce high-demand endgame content on a game that has a dwindling playerbase.
Especially when there doesn't seem to be any system of incentive to reward players to help others.
They should just throw in an npc or building that has some help wanted categories where players can register. Let the helpful players come and sign up to help those in need and let them earn some type of credit points they can spend on more tempting gear.
The difficulty is keeping is tempting because, like all other contents and adjustments, people chase the reward and then stop when they get it, and also implementing a way for players to congregate at short notice.
It would probably be easier to implement them into tomes/manuals or another in-zone point of contact that can warp you to the right place.

[Demon6324236]

It is truly questionable logic to introduce high-demand endgame content on a game that has a dwindling playerbase.
Especially when there doesn't seem to be any system of incentive to reward players to help others.
They should just throw in an npc or building that has some help wanted categories where players can register. Let the helpful players come and sign up to help those in need and let them earn some type of credit points they can spend on more tempting gear.
The difficulty is keeping is tempting because, like all other contents and adjustments, people chase the reward and then stop when they get it, and also implementing a way for players to congregate at short notice.
It would probably be easier to implement them into tomes/manuals or another in-zone point of contact that can warp you to the right place.The problem with any idea for help based on rewards is abuse, why would someone help a legitimate player who may or may not be intelligent enough to listen to directions while receiving said help instead of simply using a mule for the points?

[bloodbeat]

The problem with any idea for help based on rewards is abuse, why would someone help a legitimate player who may or may not be intelligent enough to listen to directions while receiving said help instead of simply using a mule for the points?

Randomised help. You might not get to help that mule of yours and you might well get to help it.
I dunno, maybe some form of completion activity, that's sensitive enough to weed through that sort of thing.
I dunno. It isn't looking good for humanity if you base it on their philanthropy on FFXI lol

[Demon6324236]

I understand the idea of wanting to get more casual players into events and get people help who need it, but the ideas coming forward are often flawed and impossible for SE to do without either potential for abuse, or simply make no sense on how they would help in the end. I hope I am not coming across as a dick or anything, I just am trying to point out flaws with ideas so they might be improved upon and made to be workable in the game so that SE might actually do something with the ideas.

[SqEnisfilledwithgeniuses]

Once upon a time, I wanted into delve. I leveled corsair to 99, and capped marksmanship. I farmed 30k plasm. Oh? I don't have key items? So I shouted, and built groups, and got my KI. Then I bought some hand to hand so I could DD on mnk. Oh? That delve group is full except a paladin? Iron plates > colorless souls > azdaja's horns > Ochain.

And before anyone says it, I have a full time job, and 3 kids. So I didn't spend every waking moment in game to achieve this.

The moral of the story? I worked my ass off to be able to be viable in delve, and I'm sorry if I don't want some DD wielding a whiffstick and busting off 400dmg weaponskills in my delve group.

It's not elitist, it's realist. I'm really sorry, but I'm going to take the delve sam in full AF+2/delve dd gear before I take the AH fodder sam sporting his awesome pearle set.

And as for the brds and whms saying they can't get into delve? Not really sure. My friend (couple pieces of brd af1, generic horns, undercapped skills) gets invited all the time. And I can hop on my 7% cure potency whm with my chantoyant staff, and heal a delve just fine. So maybe people are just more picky about their support on your servers.

*Edit*

Since I'm not a complete ass, I'll give you an example of a potential reasonable solution.

Allow for 2 different forms of delve. An 18 man alliance delve, complete with NMs and all the plasmy goodness, or the ability to choose a 6 man delve. All NMs and boss would be locked out, drop plasm gain from normal monsters accordingly, and reduce difficulty to match.

18 people make 5.5~6k per run with a good group, 6 man would make somewhere between 1.5~3k per run. Then you can invite anyone you'd like.

[Demon6324236]

I cant agree with that much of a drop from 18 people to 6 people honestly, its much to little, I would say a group of 6 equally geared and skilled to that of the group of 18 should get roughly 2/3rds or 3/4ths of the Plasm, per kill would be more like 30~40 rather than 20~25 which is what you seem to suggest. That is my personal opinion on it though.

[Daemon]

Seriously? I'm getting tired of people calling end game players Elitist.

Expecting to participate in "End Game" events unprepared is the reason why people get rejected. It's not about being an "elitist".

If that's the case then everyone in the world could just skip high school, college and move on to be CEO's, Doctors, And whatever high end professions people took the the time, money investment, experience from working several crappy jobs to "earn" their way to the top all because education is not THAT important making them elitist that don't deserve it?

Tell that to every job interviewer who rejects you.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that your gear, skill, your ability to land spells, accurately hit rather than accurately miss dealing damage, do in fact matter.

There are some of us who even though have all skills maxed, 500cap on enfeebling even with high end gears still get resisted from T5 bosses that need other jobs with capped skills to help us land our spells. Same goes for DD.

Excuses such as REM takes forever, +2s hard to get, I can't do this, I can't do that only gives people more reason not to invite you.

If you truly are a level 99 player then act like one because at that level you should already have AF, skills maxed, and a decent amount of gear sets, weapons. Not FC to 99 in half a day and expect to get by on a quick 1 set equipment.

Yes we all want the best, but no one should ignore the fact that some of us have nothing else to do in game because we already put in the time and did everything else that you haven't done. And then be called Elitist.

[Vizzer]

They aren't elitists for what they have, and what they have they did have help getting 9 times out of 10, but because they refuse to help others that started after they did. I would gladly grind all day in abyssea parties to get all af+2 and empy weapons, but that's not going to happen solo, I missed the big abyssea wave, and now that I started to play, I'm expected to solo what people that were there when it released were doing with full groups, and don't say to shout and start your own groups, because I have what few pieces of +2 I have, I have gotten from shouting or soloing some NM's like the Ironclad in Attowa. But most of the time when you shout, people will refuse to help if what you need is also what they need. I have brewed a few nm's, but you can't always get all the procs when you brew.

[Glamdring]

WHM/Healer, BRD, and/or COR dual box mules...

Also that's the counter to the initial idea of bringing "gimp" players.

I like the concept but that's essentially what would happen. Removing the Wildskeeper clear requirement and/or turning the NMs into pop with bead instead of depop are better options that would allow bringing "gimp" players because they themselves could setup the runs.

I have no intention on ever dual-boxing (and at 1 time I was building not 1 but 7 characters on my account, now I have 1 character and 15 mules full of stuff). I'm sure I'm not the only one out there with no intention of owning 2 systems AND paying 2 sets of subscription fees, so that is not a viable answer.

What IS a viable answer, but it's too slow for most that are seeing people in Delve sets, grind reives and get a bayald weap. Do a few skirmish and get some skirmish gear. Bingo, you are now strong enough to do delve, and augmenting your delve gear will simply make you stronger for beating anything else. The bigger problem is going to be just where are you supposed to put all this stuff?

[Daemon]

They aren't elitists for what they have, and what they have they did have help getting 9 times out of 10, but because they refuse to help others that started after they did.

Then that would fall under Self-gain.

You cannot assume everyone is that way. I barely do delve after the first week because its boring and pointless to rush obtaining something that will only give more reason to have nothing else to do again. Yet I offer to help people all the time, even people I don't know.

My LS has Delve event once or twice a week, and I see them helping or asking help for other non SoA related things.

If you can't find help, join an LS, or if your LS doesn't help, leave it and find one that does. Add people to your friends list and network in exp parties. People shouldnt be blaming us so called "Elitist" if we don't know who you are in game wanting help and didn't ask us personally.



I would gladly grind all day in abyssea parties to get all af+2 and empy weapons, but that's not going to happen solo, I missed the big abyssea wave, and now that I started to play, I'm expected to solo what people that were there when it released were doing with full groups, and don't say to shout and start your own groups, because I have what few pieces of +2 I have, I have gotten from shouting or soloing some NM's like the Ironclad in Attowa. But most of the time when you shout, people will refuse to help if what you need is also what they need. I have brewed a few nm's, but you can't always get all the procs when you brew.

Let me tell you the horror stories, I joined parties who not only used my kis, but they also lotted on the +2s that was suppose to be locked. I've made parties where people left upon getting their item after taking hours just to get the right people.

I got sick of this and took the time to level bst to 99, buy gears, magian trial axes, Ducal atma quest and was able to solo almost all +2s. Body seals can be done from repeatable quests. There are ways you can do many things solo you just need to take a closer look and read up on it. It's the reason why many will say that to you. The rest falls under networking, don't expect to get help if you didn't help the person you asked first. Many times I offer to help people and once in a while when I need help with something, Ill ask those I've already helped. That includes LS mates, friends on friends list.

You also have the same ability to watch out for shouts like the rest of us. I've sat in town with bazaar up waiting for items to sell while watching shouts. Most of us also leveled multiple jobs to serve the many different occasions necessary. And I also saved Cruor to brew certain bosses. So there are many options.

Also observe this: If you need +2s and see others complaining about end game players not helping, that means in reality there are other people out there who needs it too. Sometime if you can't find anyone, try shouting again later because there are certain times of the day when people are active rather than the many in town who parked mule or character for bazaar that several people assume are ignoring help me shouts.

Homeless people on the streets everyday who can't even afford 1 meal yet people who have a job, a home, and extra money to spare not willing to help those suffering is a reasonable cause to be disappointed about than this.

[Glamdring]

It is truly questionable logic to introduce high-demand endgame content on a game that has a dwindling playerbase.
Especially when there doesn't seem to be any system of incentive to reward players to help others.
They should just throw in an npc or building that has some help wanted categories where players can register. Let the helpful players come and sign up to help those in need and let them earn some type of credit points they can spend on more tempting gear.
The difficulty is keeping is tempting because, like all other contents and adjustments, people chase the reward and then stop when they get it, and also implementing a way for players to congregate at short notice.
It would probably be easier to implement them into tomes/manuals or another in-zone point of contact that can warp you to the right place.

Idea, if you form the party through some kind of ingame BBS a karma system that automatically increases your "contribution" and thus the rewards based on the relative level spread of the group.

I've always favorred this type of system since it fosters cooperative gameplay. Use it for other content as well, parties formed through the BBS against non-contribution based drops get tiers of TH for the duration of the party, etc. the logical placement for any such BBS would be near an AH.

[Zagen]

Allow for 2 different forms of delve. An 18 man alliance delve, complete with NMs and all the plasmy goodness, or the ability to choose a 6 man delve. All NMs and boss would be locked out, drop plasm gain from normal monsters accordingly, and reduce difficulty to match.

18 people make 5.5~6k per run with a good group, 6 man would make somewhere between 1.5~3k per run. Then you can invite anyone you'd like.

I don't even think a reduction in plasm is needed I mean for endgame groups who're gear well enough that would be able to push a 6 man party to that 5.5~6k range they'd also be able to go as an alliance and just take down the bosses with misc mobs for 70k+ runs.


I have no intention on ever dual-boxing (and at 1 time I was building not 1 but 7 characters on my account, now I have 1 character and 15 mules full of stuff). I'm sure I'm not the only one out there with no intention of owning 2 systems AND paying 2 sets of subscription fees, so that is not a viable answer.

What IS a viable answer, but it's too slow for most that are seeing people in Delve sets, grind reives and get a bayald weap. Do a few skirmish and get some skirmish gear. Bingo, you are now strong enough to do delve, and augmenting your delve gear will simply make you stronger for beating anything else. The bigger problem is going to be just where are you supposed to put all this stuff?

Ignorance is bliss. Just because you aren't willing to do that doesn't mean others don't already do that.

I have 2 accounts, my other account is 3/6 on Delve KIs and has 0 Delve gear/weapons and still functions as a WHM or BRD, in many cases better than ones I've seen doing plasm farm runs via shout groups. I can think of 4 players in my LS who also have a 2nd account and we're a social LS that plays around in endgame via shout groups.

[Vizzer]

Let me tell you the horror stories, I joined parties who not only used my kis, but they also lotted on the +2s that was suppose to be locked. I've made parties where people left upon getting their item after taking hours just to get the right people.

Body seals can be done from repeatable quests. There are ways you can do many things solo you just need to take a closer look and read up on it. You also have the same ability to watch out for shouts like the rest of us. I've sat in town with bazaar up waiting for items to sell while watching shouts. Most of us also leveled multiple jobs to serve the many different occasions necessary. And I also saved Cruor to brew certain bosses. So there are many options.




I've had the same thing where people use my KI's, lot and bail, I know not everyone in the game is like this, but I seem to run into quite a few pricks in this game. I've leveled numerous jobs, farmed KI's and shouted to get all my zone boss and caturae kills, I have been working on getting things, found a small group, and we have been doing things like limbus and meebles. I know about the repeatable quests, have read up on them, and done quite a few of them, but the RNG on it is horrible, and if you do happen to get a seal, you have what a 1/20 chance it's the seal you are after, I have my mog safe full of nothing but partial stacks of seals I have gotten from doing this. The truth is I don't really care about this game anymore, and I have to say most of the reason is because of the players. I know not all are bad, but enough to make not just me, but many others not resub. I'm really just wasting time until XIV comes out.

[Daemon]

I've had the same thing where people use my KI's, lot and bail, I know not everyone in the game is like this, but I seem to run into quite a few pricks in this game. I've leveled numerous jobs, farmed KI's and shouted to get all my zone boss and caturae kills, I have been working on getting things, found a small group, and we have been doing things like limbus and meebles. I know about the repeatable quests, have read up on them, and done quite a few of them, but the RNG on it is horrible, and if you do happen to get a seal, you have what a 1/20 chance it's the seal you are after, I have my mog safe full of nothing but partial stacks of seals I have gotten from doing this. The truth is I don't really care about this game anymore, and I have to say most of the reason is because of the players. I know not all are bad, but enough to make not just me, but many others not resub. I'm really just wasting time until XIV comes out.

Every MMORPG will have it's good share of bad people. Some jobs have terrible luck when it comes to dropping seals. I know It took me a long time to get some for Ninja but I think all jobs have that 1 that takes forever. My mog house also has several seals and +2s stacking up. But I know how you feel as certain things in the game can give a reason to either rage quit or lose interest.

But also you are dealing with an old community with several players who have been around many years that have already passed several of the other content and have done things people need help with over and over that we can't please everybody.

Atleast when you start FF14 everyone will be on the same level exploring together the new stuff rather than hanging with people who have "been there, done that" on several occasions. But that doesn't mean you won't run into a few pricks along the way.

I know I've helped so many do level limit break I've honestly lost count.

[Yinnyth]

They aren't elitists for what they have, and what they have they did have help getting 9 times out of 10, but because they refuse to help others that started after they did.

You'll probably find that most of the "elitists" do help out people who are worse off than they are. Yes, there are those a-holes out there who help no one if there's nothing in it for themselves.

But there is a BIG difference between agreeing to help you out, and accepting you into an event where there's already a high chance of failure. I do delves with newbs all the time. I've gone back and done NNI with several pickup groups even though I've had all my gear for a long time now. Couple months before SoA, I helped a couple groups get atmas in abyssea, and others get their KIs from city t1-4 VW. That's helping people out. But I will not allow a person in full AF1 and underleveled magian weapon into a delve NM farming party. I'd rather be rude to you and turn you down than rude to everyone else in my group by decreasing our chances at victory.

If your undergeared and/or inexperienced presence puts our chances of victory at risk, it's not helping you, it's inviting defeat. There are some things in the game that are difficult enough that every single person in the group needs to be able to pull their own weight, or the whole run will end in failure. You can choose to see them as an elitist, if you choose to, but they're attempting to protect the best interests of the majority.

[Vizzer]

You'll probably find that most of the "elitists" do help out people who are worse off than they are. Yes, there are those a-holes out there who help no one if there's nothing in it for themselves.

But there is a BIG difference between agreeing to help you out, and accepting you into an event where there's already a high chance of failure. I do delves with newbs all the time. I've gone back and done NNI with several pickup groups even though I've had all my gear for a long time now. Couple months before SoA, I helped a couple groups get atmas in abyssea, and others get their KIs from city t1-4 VW. That's helping people out. But I will not allow a person in full AF1 and underleveled magian weapon into a delve NM farming party. I'd rather be rude to you and turn you down than rude to everyone else in my group by decreasing our chances at victory.

If your undergeared and/or inexperienced presence puts our chances of victory at risk, it's not helping you, it's inviting defeat. There are some things in the game that are difficult enough that every single person in the group needs to be able to pull their own weight, or the whole run will end in failure. You can choose to see them as an elitist, if you choose to, but they're attempting to protect the best interests of the majority.

I'm not saying I want in while I am undergeared, I'm saying there are quite a few people that don't seem to understand getting to that point isn't as easy when it is not the main content in the game at that point. I was called a scrub the other day because I didn't have a delve weapon when I was in an abyssea party trying to cap my blue magic and getting merits, I call people like that elitist, and a prick. If you aren't one of those people, I wasn't referring to you. My bard has full af3 mix of +1 and +2, but I get turned away from delve because I don't have an empy harp, that isn't someithing I call soloable.

[Demon6324236]

People who ask for things like Arise or an Emp Harp, yes, I will agree, are elitist, because the advantages to such things are minor. The same thing goes for people insulting you for not having a Delve weapon when in a worm party, which is funny yet sad, because it shows how stupid some people are in my opinion.

[Birdkiller]

What they should do is make the KI's from Naakuals and delve NMs purchasable with large amounts of bayld, as well as making it so you can exchange bayld for small amounts of plasm. Maybe then people will care about colonization again.

[Spectreman]

Idea, if you form the party through some kind of ingame BBS a karma system that automatically increases your "contribution" and thus the rewards based on the relative level spread of the group.

I've always favorred this type of system since it fosters cooperative gameplay. Use it for other content as well, parties formed through the BBS against non-contribution based drops get tiers of TH for the duration of the party, etc. the logical placement for any such BBS would be near an AH.



Indeed. When you reward players to help others you end up building a less toxic community. The way this game is going soon there will be a few with all delve weapons, another few with some delve and having problems to find players to get more plasm farms because those who have all dont have a reason to keep going for strangers and those unfotunate that never experienced delve will only know about it from youtube videos because no one is willing to give them a chance if they didn't have already a delve weapon magically inserted in their accounts when they started the game.

SE has to address this immediately before the first batch of players get everything and stop doing that. This gaming community is smaller each day and getting things done is becoming harder and harder.

[Olor]

I'm not saying I want in while I am undergeared, I'm saying there are quite a few people that don't seem to understand getting to that point isn't as easy when it is not the main content in the game at that point. I was called a scrub the other day because I didn't have a delve weapon when I was in an abyssea party trying to cap my blue magic and getting merits, I call people like that elitist, and a prick. If you aren't one of those people, I wasn't referring to you. My bard has full af3 mix of +1 and +2, but I get turned away from delve because I don't have an empy harp, that isn't someithing I call soloable.

Speaking as a BRD no one has once asked if I have Dharp/Ghorn. Sometimes someone makes a shout for "3-4 song bard" for the all NM+boss runs but atm for KI and plasm farm no one has asked me for that. I dunno. Maybe your server is different but for me saying "BRD do you need it" is pretty much auto-invite.

[Daemon]

Honestly for those complaining about getting into a plasm party, you have so many options in front of you but refuse to take up those options.

We didn't do well in delve when it first came out with just AF3 armor. Many of the DDs already had REM. And those who didn't dedicated time doing colonization reives and bought adoulin gear. This is truly something you people are overlooking and instead of learning how to overcome your obstacle of getting invited you are here giving us very poor excuses begging to skip a majority of the things we all had to do before having the privilege to enter higher area content.

Here let me give you a small example of why I've been invited to delve.

I have Gear sets for Enhancing, Enfeebling, Fastcast, Refresh, -pdt, mdef, Gravity, Darkmagic, Aumented sky gear such as Dalmatica+1 with Max HQ stats (Fast Cast+6, Magic Accuracy+6, Occ Quickspellcasting +3%), Blood Cuisses (Evasion+7, Fastcast+4, Magic Evasion+4 still a work in progress however use the 12% walk speed for survival), Hayline hat, All relic AF for RDM upgraded to +2, Hvelgamir EMP for Scholar (that way bards do not need to worry about giving me ballads)

Small survival gears that many overlook such as sand mantle (petrification: Physical damage taken -20%) when Pieste NM petrifies, I switch over to -pdt set incase NM attacks lowering damage so that people don't have to waste 150 mp to raise me or wait several minutes of sitting on the side unable to help members due to weakness.


These gear sets put me over 500+ for enfeebling, enhancing, Relic AF+2 with Chainspell extended to +20 seconds, very useful for CS Stun or Raise when party wipes out. Zammzummin staff and Kaikias Cape for landing Gravity, my fast cast is extremely fast allowing me to Spam enfeebling magic quickly. All skills capped, and even so this is only basic gear that I've collected over the past 6 months returning to FFXI a year ago which the other 6 months well spent leveling, skilling, questing and getting missions done. So to say "YOU CAN'T" is just a poor excuse not to get things done.

Adoulin gear gives high INT / Magic Accuracy on the Orvail set so this helped contribute to landing enfeebles. And you can earn plasms off shards solo when you can't find a party to earn it in delve.

It is the reason why the devs said you have many gear options allowing you the ability to defeat Delve areas within 15 minutes, from gear being available through Salvage, NNI, Limbus, Sky, Meebles and several other areas that if you are struggling to win then something is either wrong with your gear, strategy or party setup that you may have to go back and work on these things. Hence why it is end game content made to give everyone an equal opportunity to overcome the creators design and vision.

[Sarick]

It is the reason why the devs said you have many gear options allowing you the ability to defeat Delve areas within 15 minutes, from gear being available through Salvage, NNI, Limbus, Sky, Meebles and several other areas that if you are struggling to win then something is either wrong with your gear, strategy or party setup that you may have to go back and work on these things. Hence why it is end game content made to give everyone an equal opportunity to overcome the creators design and vision.

Remember that news about the group falling ill fighting a boss before SE nerfed it? The same one where SE posted a video of them defeating it and said "there's how you do it the tricks are all in there. " You know like the guys who get rich off the stock markets when they know insider information? These same people where saying how easy it is to get rich off the stock market. Sure it's easy if you created it, have insider knowledge, skills and <<10 MS latency.

It's not easy being perfect nore is it possible to accommodate everyone but creating a situation where the variables are extreme makes for a poor balance. Yes, lets assume that all players are experts with mystic skills of deduction, timing and the digital dice all roll perfectly. To consider this in such a broad perspective is laughable in most cases.

[Daemon]

Remember that news about the group falling ill fighting a boss before SE nerfed it? The same one where SE posted a video of them defeating it and said "there's how you do it" The tricks are all in there. It's not easy being perfect nore is it possible to accommodate everyone but creating a situation where the variables are extreme makes for a poor balance. Yes, lets assume that all players are experts with mystic skills of deduction, timing and the digital dice rolls perfectly. To consider this in such a broad perspective is laughable in most cases.

But that doesn't change the fact that its possible. And the devs did adjust it to give people more than 15 minutes. Delve has only been out what 1 month? And people already complaining its too hard. Then you have people claiming there is nothing else to do beyond delve. So what is it??

No matter what the devs do people will still complain regardless.

People think Delve is meant to be beaten overnight when clearly "End Game" in every game and not just FFXI is designed for players who are done with everything else and wants a challenge with all the best gears they have acquired, collected and skills they have practiced, strategies they have developed before entering such high end content.

[Sarick]

No matter what the devs do people will still complain regardless.

This is true. You can't deny the fact that their judgment about difficulty is based on insider knowledge and factors that a huge portion of the population can't mitigate.

It's like this to. If your a sports player at a ball game and drop the ball causing our team to lose multiple times those failures linger no matter what happens. People can usually forgive but they don't normally forget. Listening to the players should be #1 priority. If people don't like something developers should look into ways to improve it.

When SoA came or they throw in unfinished content. It had a completely different approach to what worked 10+ years and made item leveling. It also added yet another set of build me up events that seperated a portion of the player base like delve. There was a SMALL group who decided these new concepts. Because of this they had little or no pre-checks before they where sent to the wild. This is where they made the mistake and why the ball was dropped so hard.



People think Delve is meant to be beaten overnight when clearly "End Game" in every game and not just FFXI is designed for players who are done with everything else and wants a challenge with all the best gears they have acquired, collected and skills they have practiced, strategies they have developed before entering such high end content.

This would be true if everything was straight forward but it's not there are many more variables that aren't accounted for. These variables create a few stigmas that have negative impacts of the expansions success. If the opinions of the players don't matter then it's failing. They didn't tell or recognize the negatives.

Is it obvious why people will always complain.

Also please keep in mind when you quote me seconds after I post I might correct or alter my comment. Honestly I can proof read my text 100 times and it seems perfect. The next day I read it again and it's broken. LOL

[Daemon]

This is true. You can't deny the fact that their judgment about difficulty is based on insider knowledge and factors that a huge portion of the population can't mitigate.

It's like this to. If your a sports player at a ball game and drop the ball causing our team to lose multiple times those failures linger no matter what happens. People can usually forgive but they don't normally forget. Listening to the players should be #1 priority. If people don't like something they should look into ways to improve it.

When SoA came or they throw in stuff unfinished content with a completely different approach to what worked 10+ years and made item leveling with yet another set of build me up events like delve. There was a SMALL group who decided these new concepts this it had little or no pre-checks before it was sent to the wild.

Also please keep in mind when you quote me seconds after I post I might correct or alter my comment. Honestly I can proof read my text 100 times and it seems perfect. The next day I read it again and it's broken. LOL

I don't work for SE and I dont have insider knowledge but I can already see that the challenge the devs gave us "Can" be easy if only the entire 18 man alliance was well geared, knows how to listen and work well as a team.

EDIT: This is why you see many posts of players complaining they can't get invites to Delve related events. (If you are not decently geared, then that's your cue to go back and collect those pieces needed to help the rest of the 17 people depending on you to contribute your share to the entire alliance)

There are posts I've read on FFXIAH where even some players have already discussed how certain tactics helped them to accurately accomplish certain things and listed what gears, buffs, party setup, strategy.

It's true that there are plenty of gear options available that allow everyone to have the correct power but how many people are here too focused on wanting the best gears without even barely having the basics down first?

We've already seen many people defeat T5s with no complaints, no issues, so that should be proof enough as it is that it's possible. Until people do it, then complain but usually the ones who are complaining are the ones who haven't.

[Sarick]

I don't work for SE and I dont have insider knowledge but I can already see that the challenge the devs gave us "Can" be easy if only the entire 18 man alliance was well geared, knows how to listen and work well as a team.

They assume based on what they know. Like I said it's not streight forward. What's good on paper might work but variables exist that can change all of that. The community itself is a variable. It's because assumptions like this are being overlooked. The player base is divided when you create content that has a premium skill set requirement. Thats where the "It can be easy if you have the right strategy and setup" comes from.


There are posts I've read on FFXIAH where even some players have already discussed how certain tactics helped them to accurately accomplish certain things and listed what gears, buffs, party setup, strategy.

It's true that there are plenty of gear options allowing everyone to have the correct power but how many people are here too focused on wanting the best gears without even barely having the basics down first?

I think it's more to the point that the new system doesn't motivate a portion of the players and it's goal seems to be more less a ruse till FFXIV is full force. It also seems to be quantity over quality creating time sincs and keep players from blowing through content. They made this ITEM based leveling system to slow progression and obsolete old content on purpose. If they didn't have this players with pre-seekers gear could easily beat the bosses with that gear as an alliance of 18.

When it comes down to it level wise in comparison to the abbysea expansions by the time all players are fully decked capped out level 120 gear out they shouldn't need more then a team of 6 to beat these same bosses. If they do then we know the developers are just blowing steam about how easy the content is. No, as far as I'm concerned the gear progression is set for the top tier only with a full alliance minimum.


We've already seen many people defeat T5s with no complaints, no issues, so that should be proof enough as it is that it's possible. Until people do it, then complain but usually the ones who are complaining are the ones who haven't.

So, We've seen videos of players soloing gods in skill pre-abbysea and players like pchan low manning arch-lord in dynamius with his (%^&$) group. That doesn't mean "It's easy" for everyone. There are more factors such as finding the players, organizing it, skill, latency and luck. Most or some of those things can be beyond the players control. This is where the developers most overestimate.

[Yinnyth]

Remember that news about the group falling ill fighting a boss before SE nerfed it? The same one where SE posted a video of them defeating it and said "there's how you do it the tricks are all in there. "

Quick note: the enemy that people "fell ill" fighting was pandemonium warden. I forget exactly how long they took on it before giving up, but I believe it was somewhere around 18 hours. They had a few members switching in and out during the fight, but even if they had 3 full member swaps during that time, 6 hours is still a long time to be in high-alert mode.

The video SE released was Absolute Virtue. No group had ever come close to killing him legitimately, and if I'm correct, no group has fully locked and killed AV even to this date. The video was released because players had no idea what to do on AV, so the devs threw us a bone and showed them fighting it, doing a few of the tricks.

[Daemon]

They assume based on what they know. Like I said it's not streight forward. What's good on paper might work but variables exist that can change all of that. The community itself is a variable. It's because assumptions like this are being overlooked. The player base is divided when you create content that has a premium skill set requirement. Thats where the "It can be easy if you have the right strategy and setup" comes from.

This is not an assumption. Its fact that people can do it and proof lies within the comments of others "trying" to tell you how it can be done, yet whats being overlooked is that people are ignorant and instead of listening and learning from others trying to explain the quickest available options of how to accomplish your goal, arguments are being made like a broken record.

Plasm parties are not hard to get into. Bosses are not hard to beat once you pass the plasm farming phase and earn a few delve items. Now what makes it hard is that you have certain people only focused on "wanting" the best and not having a decent amount of gear to survive or deal damage or even accurately hit which makes it a problem to those who actually took the time and effort to be well prepared.

It takes several months and to some years to even earn 1 REM, but it only takes 1 day to earn 1 Delve weapon.. And yet people who don't know how to earn any of these items are here expressing how unfair it is that can't do it.



I think it's more to the point that the new system doesn't motivate a portion of the players and it's goal seems to be more less a ruse till FFXIV is full force. It also seems to be quantity over quality creating time sincs and keep players from blowing through content. They made this ITEM based leveling system to slow progression and obsolete old content on purpose. If they didn't have this players with pre-seekers gear could easily beat the bosses with that gear as an alliance of 18.

Kind of early to be speaking on behalf of the portion of players you are referring to no? Delve has only been out less than 1 month.... It can't be helped whether or not a new system motivates a person to do anything because motivation comes from within. If people were not motivated to do delve, you wouldnt be seeing shouts in town and comments of people saying "Everyone is only doing delve and not any other content such as VW anymore"

Pre-Seekers gear could easily beat the bosses.... That's your problem, What part of "End Game" do people not understand? Bosses are "NOT" meant to be killed easily. And to compare with Delve you really need to go back and look at the level difference. I say "IT CAN BE EASY" even with your statement of Pre-seekers gear, just not the gear you maybe thinking about. Because if its about Pre-Seekers gear, then how can players not succeed with REM/AF2&3/Relic Armor+2/NNI/MEEBLES/SALVAGE/LEGION/EINHERJAR/SKY/VW gear?

EDIT: Pre-Seekers gear is needed for the Plasm farming phase to help you earn Delve Weapons and gear so players can fight higher tier bosses more effectively. So my comment can be misunderstood because my wording was incorrect. And T5 bosses in delve cannot "easily" be defeated with only Pre-seekers gear.


When it comes down to it level wise in comparison to the abbysea expansions by the time all players are fully decked capped out level 120 gear out they shouldn't need more then a team of 6 to beat these same bosses. If they do then we know the developers are just blowing steam about how easy the content is. No, as far as I'm concerned the gear progression is set for the top tier only with a full alliance minimum.

So every single expansion should be evolved around casual players who don't have time or the lack of motivation, the drive or dedication to put effort into the quality of their characters and have absolutely nothing available for us players who did. And that its best to keep the game having nothing else to do other than for us to sit in town all day? This is the one expansion that gives End game players something to do. I think people need to learn what the meaning of "End Game"
means because for casual players all other expansions are made for you and this is the one expansion thats not.

You have Salvage, Einherjar, NNI, Meeble Burrows, Voidwatch, Assault, Legion, Sky, Sea, Limbus, Dynamis, Abyssea, WoE, Provedence Watcher, Pandamonium Warden, ZNM, and many other things....

while we are given Delve.

Edit: Having 18 man people for boss fight is nothing new. And plasm parties could do it with less than 18 people however quantity of people allows you to split up and do more than what a lowman party of 6 can do.



So, We've seen videos of players soloing gods in skill pre-abbysea and players like pchan low manning arch-lord in dynamius with his (%^&$) group. That doesn't mean "It's easy" for everyone. There are more factors such as finding the players, organizing it, skill, latency and luck. Most or some of those things can be beyond the players control. This is where the developers most overestimate.

That doesnt mean the entire game should be made easy for everyone to solo otherwise what more is there to enjoy and accomplish if everything can be beaten without effort?

[Daemon]

Quick note: the enemy that people "fell ill" fighting was pandemonium warden. I forget exactly how long they took on it before giving up, but I believe it was somewhere around 18 hours. They had a few members switching in and out during the fight, but even if they had 3 full member swaps during that time, 6 hours is still a long time to be in high-alert mode.

The video SE released was Absolute Virtue. No group had ever come close to killing him legitimately, and if I'm correct, no group has fully locked and killed AV even to this date. The video was released because players had no idea what to do on AV, so the devs threw us a bone and showed them fighting it, doing a few of the tricks.

And because of Delve it will be very interesting how the outcome of these battles will turn out now than before SoA release.

[Demon6324236]

And because of Delve it will be very interesting how the outcome of these battles will turn out now than before SoA release.Not really, just like before Delve weapons, we PD zerg them down if we want to. Its how I killed AV for the Atma before, just go in with the normal setup, DD+DD+DD+BRD+COR+SMN in each party, buff up fully, swaps, pop PD, kill. That's for AV. For PW its easier, just need DD+DD+PLD+WHM+BRD+SMN and you can 6 man it, DDs kill off the real PW while the PLD holds the kids, BRD keeps up songs, WHM keeps everyone alive, and SMN uses PD when the final form is about to pop, then you zerg down the last form quickly and walk away happy.

[Daemon]

Not really, just like before Delve weapons, we PD zerg them down if we want to. Its how I killed AV for the Atma before, just go in with the normal setup, DD+DD+DD+BRD+COR+SMN in each party, buff up fully, swaps, pop PD, kill. That's for AV. For PW its easier, just need DD+DD+PLD+WHM+BRD+SMN and you can 6 man it, DDs kill off the real PW while the PLD holds the kids, BRD keeps up songs, WHM keeps everyone alive, and SMN uses PD when the final form is about to pop, then you zerg down the last form quickly and walk away happy.

I still believe it will be interesting, maybe we will see Pchan do a 3 man party for this ^_^. Plus Geomancer and Rune might have interesting roles to play.

[Olor]

People think Delve is meant to be beaten overnight when clearly "End Game" in every game and not just FFXI is designed for players who are done with everything else and wants a challenge with all the best gears they have acquired, collected and skills they have practiced, strategies they have developed before entering such high end content.

The problem with this is in FFXI, unlike end game in other MMO, people often won't let you do the stuff that came out before the latest endgame if you aren't geared from current endgame. Sorry, I've seen an awful lot of "NNI floor 100 do you need it? 4/6 Delve DD PST" shouts lately.

[Demon6324236]

NNI was a pain before Delve weapons, with the changes made and the loss of Embrava, many people think its impossible without. Admittedly that is one case where the event rules changed with the update, and is more understandable, now things like VW... that is when it becomes stupid.

[Glamdring]

Ignorance is bliss. Just because you aren't willing to do that doesn't mean others don't already do that.

I have 2 accounts, my other account is 3/6 on Delve KIs and has 0 Delve gear/weapons and still functions as a WHM or BRD, in many cases better than ones I've seen doing plasm farm runs via shout groups. I can think of 4 players in my LS who also have a 2nd account and we're a social LS that plays around in endgame via shout groups.

no ignorance involved, I know all about the benefits of DB. On the other hand, I also know about the benefits of paying my bills, keeping my relic of a car running, etc. Buying a 2nd computer (even though I plan on buying a new one in the next couple months), a 2nd set of software and content IDs so I can solo with a 2nd character simply isn't a viable choice; I'd rather spend my few discretionary $ I'm not already spending on Glam on a good book/tunes, etc for when I'm not in the mood.

[Glamdring]

well, in the case of Delve Matsui has already told us what his idea is, a tiered Reward system for all of SoA where you earn reive gear, use it to beat skirmish and use that to beat delve. The difficulty with delve is that people are skipping his tiers because they want their new shiney now and not after covering his intervening steps. Remember, at 1st there was no plan to make your R/M/E adequate to the task until people (legitimately) complained about the months/years of their life wasted on earning these trophy items only to essentially start over-and they are still taking their sweet-ass time with the fix.

Problem is, this is just more grind. Now, I understand that with the characters hard-capped at 99 any progression has to be thrown on something else and since so many were only playing for gear and high numbers on their DPS parser, leveling gear was the logical place to go. BUT IT'S GRIND! People are getting damn sick of grind for everything, especially when grinding for 1 reward precludes you from grinding for another unless you increase your playtime, and for many of us-especially those with real life obligations-that simply isn't an option (children don't raise themselves, the electric bill doesn't pay itself, you get the idea). SE's people are working there, presumably it isn't for the privledge of more work but to provide for their families and the things they WANT to do in life, take a clue from their lives and design your content-and its rewards-accordingly.

Seriously, this game is 11 years old, even those who started out playing as kids in their parents house are mostly out in the real world with real world obligations and all that entails. Do you honestly believe we all have 50+ hours a week to devote to grinding for gear?

[Doombringer]

i understand how endgame can be (or at least appear) impenetrable. but i really dislike the OPs suggestion. it feels clunky and forced, and probably impossible to implement anyway.

i also understand the frustration of having to grind out event A to get gear you KNOW will be obsolete within a month of you getting it, since you only got it to access event B.

but at the same time, why should strangers be forced to carry me through the endgame? even if someone is feeling benevolent, why wouldn't they help their friends or LSmates instead of a stranger?

try to look at the game as "having fun with your buddies against an appropriate challenge" that way the time spent grinding your way into delve won't feel wasted.


or hang out for a while. once delve gets easier, people will likely relax their standards. but you might as well be doing something in that time, right? of course by then there will be some NEW event we all wanna do and we'll actually just be farther away from "good enough"

[Demon6324236]

once delve gets easier, people will likely relax their standards.People shout for VW asking for Delve DDs only, I can not believe that people will relax them enough, never do.

[Daemon]

People shout for VW asking for Delve DDs only, I can not believe that people will relax them enough, never do.

That doesn't make sense. People would only end up killing VW bosses too fast before capping light. Look at Celaeno? Maybe I can understand for Bismark, Qilin is not hard just like a good majority of VW bosses.

[Daemon]

The problem with this is in FFXI, unlike end game in other MMO, people often won't let you do the stuff that came out before the latest endgame if you aren't geared from current endgame. Sorry, I've seen an awful lot of "NNI floor 100 do you need it? 4/6 Delve DD PST" shouts lately.

You probably didn't read my old post. People can do colonization Rieves and buy Adoulin gear which should give you enough decent stats to join Plasm parties. You can also join parties to obtain Ki but need to pay attention to shouts or know people who can get you into these parties. Everything is about networking.

You can earn enough plasm in 1 day to buy a delve weapon. When you can't find a party then you can kill stuff and earn it off shards.

Lol NNI I can understand why people would want delve weapons especially on higher floors with Kill All objectives. It's not easy reaching floor 100 if your jumps are bad.

[Demon6324236]

That doesn't make sense. People would only end up killing VW bosses too fast before capping light. Look at Celaeno? Maybe I can understand for Bismark, Qilin is not hard just like a good majority of VW bosses.That's my point though, I have seen people shouting for Delve DDs only for Morta, Prov Watcher, and even 1 for Qilin, its messed up. I can understand something like NNI which was hard before and made much harder without Embrava or Delve weapons, but something like VW... is a joke.

[Daemon]

The difficulty with delve is that people are skipping his tiers because they want their new shiney now

Exactly. 110% have to agree with this

[Daemon]

That's my point though, I have seen people shouting for Delve DDs only for Morta, Prov Watcher, and even 1 for Qilin, its messed up. I can understand something like NNI which was hard before and made much harder without Embrava or Delve weapons, but something like VW... is a joke.

I joined and spammed Morta a few days ago, the person shouting never asked for Delve DDs... and PW we never did it with Delve weapons either.

Note: with 3 displacers PW was dead in less than 5 minutes. Leaders usually willing to pay for these as I've seen some amazing good hearted leaders who are not only honest but serve purpose to helping those who haven't done PW before. The parties I've joined leaders always made sure others properly received the items they put down in comment.

[Oddwaffle]

Wouldn't it save everyone the trouble if SE just introduce more AH gears that are comparable to skirmish and lower tier delve gear? The whole reason for rare/ex gear is for the 'not everyone can have it' and 'reward for your effort' and yes they managed to get that. Now everyone needs those rare/ex gear to participate before getting the reward then there should be AH options that are not so rare that nobody would sell them for less than millions of gil.

I'm not saying we need comparable gear in AH but something that can be acceptable. They can make enchanted weapon that are normally not powerful but can be used to temporary enhance their power for people to be as effective as those with delve weapons. This would revive the dead art of crafting weapons. People will have to keep working towards the delve weapons because they don't want to spend tons of money on temporary enchanted weapons.

[Daemon]

Wouldn't it save everyone the trouble if SE just introduce more AH gears that are comparable to skirmish and lower tier delve gear? The whole reason for rare/ex gear is for the 'not everyone can have it' and 'reward for your effort' and yes they managed to get that. Now everyone needs those rare/ex gear to participate before getting the reward then there should be AH options that are not so rare that nobody would sell them for less than millions of gil.

I'm not saying we need comparable gear in AH but something that can be acceptable. They can make enchanted weapon that are normally not powerful but can be used to temporary enhance their power for people to be as effective as those with delve weapons. This would revive the dead art of crafting weapons. People will have to keep working towards the delve weapons because they don't want to spend tons of money on temporary enchanted weapons.

I think SE should have added more storyline and quests that you have to complete in order obtain access to other parts of SoA. That would allow players to follow the tier design concept. Kinda late now though.

[Demon6324236]

I joined and spammed Morta a few days ago, the person shouting never asked for Delve DDs... and PW we never did it with Delve weapons either.Not saying all, but some.

[Glamdring]

That doesn't make sense. People would only end up killing VW bosses too fast before capping light. Look at Celaeno? Maybe I can understand for Bismark, Qilin is not hard just like a good majority of VW bosses.

considering you can't get the idiots to lay off their 5k+ WS in Dynamis when you still need procs what makes you think they even care if they kill too fast?

[Daemon]

Not saying all, but some.

And that can't be avoided because now that these new items are in circulation it has become part of the game. VW is not hard and it's very easy to make your own party for this.

Now what I've seen in Jeuno was a good majority of people mocking others who put DREM in their shouts for lower lvl content such as Old Nyzul superclimb followed by others saying Delve only plz in thier VW, Meebles, GoV Lvl 20+ Delve Onri plz

EDIT: And by the way people are complaining that not many people are willing to do VW anymore because of Delve. So I'm pretty sure no one can afford to be picky at this moment.

[Glamdring]

Wouldn't it save everyone the trouble if SE just introduce more AH gears that are comparable to skirmish and lower tier delve gear? The whole reason for rare/ex gear is for the 'not everyone can have it' and 'reward for your effort' and yes they managed to get that. Now everyone needs those rare/ex gear to participate before getting the reward then there should be AH options that are not so rare that nobody would sell them for less than millions of gil.

I'm not saying we need comparable gear in AH but something that can be acceptable. They can make enchanted weapon that are normally not powerful but can be used to temporary enhance their power for people to be as effective as those with delve weapons. This would revive the dead art of crafting weapons. People will have to keep working towards the delve weapons because they don't want to spend tons of money on temporary enchanted weapons.

I did a long rant on this subject awhile back, but the gist is that at 75 there were multiple end-game options depending on your playstyle with sidegrade rewards and the only real gap was CRAFTED GEAR for those who would rather farm and buy than fight in killer fights. That used to be one of the strengths of the game-actually it had to be with all the HNMLS mobs being the property of a few closed shells so it simply wasn't available to most players. Aby pretty much killed that. Eventually they added VW that made a couple options, then they added Limbus, Nyzul 2.0, salvage 2.0, Dynamis 2.0, great, lots of options again. Then they added SoA and all that gear is on the scrapheap again-maybe a couple macro pieces, and of course Thf needs their TH stuff-but for the most part the gear is just too weak for the new content. But you can skip all the old stuff, aby-burn to 99, get some reive gears and then jump inot some hard-but doable-Delve with a mixed party-if you can find one.

I agree with you though, AH gear NEEDS a fix, anything else is just a big kick in the 'nads to anyone that levelled their crafting or even synergy up... unless they are making beast consumables crafting is pretty much dead. Oh, nin tools as well.

[Daemon]

considering you can't get the idiots to lay off their 5k+ WS in Dynamis when you still need procs what makes you think they even care if they kill too fast?

Well I've even said in some recent VW parties that people need to take off their delve weapons and not kill too fast because we still need to cap lights. My point was I haven't seen anyone seriously shout Delve DD only please for VW. Only shouts I've seen we're sarcastic shouts to mock certain people at the time who were seriously asking for DREM for low level content such as Old Nyzul 1-100 Superclimb.

Personally if I'm leading the VW party I'd never ask for DREM as VW is not about killing fast but getting Procs in.

[svengalis]

I don't have have R/M/E/D weapon, so I can't a dd spot for delve, I have bard and white mage leveled to 99, but I don't have full AF3 gears for white mage, or the Empy harp for bard, and have been turned down everytime I have tried to get in on a group with them, because it is easy to get players that have that. I don't have Corsair leveled, because I don't enjoy playing the job, I don't have a relic or empy shield, so that's a nogo for paladin, and that's about it, I haven't been able to get in on a single delve group yet, call it bad luck or whatever you want, but I am now just burning time in between FFXIV beta runs. I won't even think about resubbing once I can sub FFXIV, part is that is such a better game, but I could sub both if they were both fun, but XI isn't fun now thanks to the players. I got in on a merit party today killing worms in Abyssea, and the whole time some prick was going on and on about how even the ones that were killing worms were leeching because "those scrubs didn't have a delve weapon." The players of this game is the biggest reason I won't be resubbing, and I have a feeling that I am just one of many.

Sometimes you just got to put those players in their place and just say something to them. I would say come to phoenix but we have our fair share of pricks here to. Just got to know who to play with and who not to play with.

[Glamdring]

Sometimes you just got to put those players in their place and just say something to them. I would say come to phoenix but we have our fair share of pricks here to. Just got to know who to play with and who not to play with.

I completely agree. Unfortunately this game has more than its share of devas playing and many seem to LIKE dramaqueen behavior (I have no idea why). So the problem is what it does to your rep when-regardless of how polite you are or the way you phrase it-you are essentially saying they are too stupid to play a game designed with young teenagers in mind. It doesn't matter that you are right. It doesn't matter that you can show in hard numbers that your yields are going down per attempt and things are actually taking longer because you need to reacquire pops and the like, according to them-and now to everyone that accepts their every utterance as the next phrase in the new gospel-you are an idiot for not understanding that their awesome damage numbers mean they are great and you-who was properly holding back-don't know how the game is played. so now you are an ignorant ass-or at least that's your rep.

This is why people playing these games go prematurely grey/bald/early-onset heart disease. Well, that and sitting in one place for hours on end playing a video game instead of getting some exercise.