Wake up, "Seekers" is failing

[MarkovChain]

* GEO and RUN were the 2 wonderful new jobs. Turns out they are not jobs, people don't use RUN at all. GEO gets a spot in very little situations but is that enough ? When JPs started killing delve bosses, the devs quickly made a comment about the jobs they used : hey guys look reject jobs are part of the fights (RNG, GEO, PLDs..) ! I wonder why they didn't make comments since people kill 4x faster going back to real jobs like MNK, BRD, WHM etc.
* For one month clearing reives was relatively fun. Progressively zone warps were unlocked, boss were cleared. Everything was fine. Then delve crashed everything. In one update they defeated the purpose of doing imprimature (anyone remember what it is ?). Doing reives served no purpose. Nope, stacking point turned out useless. Plasm or bust. As a result, it's impossible to warp anywere. For instance if you need to clear a delve NM you have to waste 30 min clearing boring stuff.
* 95% of the shouts are dedicated to ... voidwatch. I mean, it is supposed to be a new expansion with stuff to do etc. Moving around is a pain, getting 18 ppl is boring. Only very experimented player can bring less.
* Skirmish. This one was a giant faceplam. Most retarded pop item distribution ever, with basicallly inexistant stone +2. Good rewards. Then delved poped and the thing became useless in one update. And by useless I mean everyone know a single tier IV/V delve run is giving you access to a weapon much better. The event was probably the most exciting part of the ext. though. Because 6 mannable content was one of the most wanted content from their census. But no, we got delve (most of it is low mannable though but not if you are the everage joe).
* The worst part, which I keep for last, is their intention to bring back relics and empy. I mean I like it personnally (check my sig). The stats they provided on the sword already shows relics will surpass delve weapons. Those weapons are solable, come on. What's the purpose of delve ? Let's go on holiday and come back in september with fresh new relics with better weapon skills ? Because once the new relics go live, delve will be nothing more that meeble burrows. Some gear are cool. Most of the gear is only good on higly evasive crap so if they defeat the purpose of killing bosses it's pointless (you can already cap with junk gear provided proper buffs anyway).


So the other day I farmed a few ADLs because I wanted to do a second daurdabla for the LS. Marrows are STILL in high demand with the same price as pre-adoulin (~10M here). So I was saying to mdk : what's the point a farming delve all day with PUGs or even with super good groups when you could play 2Hours of dynamis get 6 marrows and get 6 airlixirs +2 in bazars. I mean basically 1 marrows= 1 airlixir +2. Since everyone got a better weapon from delve ADL is now really a joke with a party or less. So 70k plasms for very good goups that do bosses per hour is pretty gimp comparatively. Honestly, just examine the shouts or the server and examine the proportion of delve related shouts. Most of what I see is voidwatch, abyssea exp. What is this madness ?

[PeaceWalker]

Lol, Pchan.
All jokes aside, yeah, this expansion is lackluster, it was just a way to keep people busy while FFXIV was still in Beta, a quick way to get some cash.
And no, 95% of the shouts aren't voidwatch, they're plasm farm.

[Daemon]

Lol I tried to say that before.. I "use" to have motivation to work on Mythic. Then Delve came out and obtaining these weapons were so much easier. Now I lost interest not only on this, but all other things.

No matter how many people post about SoA, I don't think anyone is going to care enough to make a difference. Not like the entire community is rage quitting like everyone did on FF14 launch.

[Tamoa]

For once I'm actually agreeing with Pchan. What's the world coming to?!?!!

[Demon6324236]

For once I'm actually agreeing with Pchan. What's the world coming to?!?!!I think the fact we all agree with Pchan is proof that this game is going to hell.

[Duelle]

I think the fact we all agree with Pchan is proof that this game is going to hell.Add me to the list of people surprised by this turn of events.

[Yinnyth]

For once I'm actually agreeing with Pchan. What's the world coming to?!?!!

Pchan is saying there is nothing worth doing in SoA. 95% of other threads regarding SoA as a whole claim that SoA is the only thing worth doing because old content got curb stomped. So which is it then? SoA is the only thing worth doing, or SoA is not worth doing?

Or is possible that SoA has certain things in it which are worth doing for character progression, and it has other things worth doing as mild entertainment, but it does not completely invalidate all other content? That can't be the truth of the matter, or most of the people commenting on the subject would be hyperbolic doomcriers who just want something to throw a fit about and will latch on to any argument which places blame on SE or denounces any recent change.

/stare

[Vivivivi]

I disagree, though Pchan makes many valid points.

I don't think Seekers is failing, but I hesitate to say it'll be a wild success, as it stands right now, it's a work in progress.

Delve has replaced voidwatch on our server, maybe we play at different times? I never see VW shouts anymore. Skirmish expansions look promising, but keep in mind I think the target audience for skirmish is the more casual players. I know many people who don't really do delve but do skirmish a lot. I think it's a nice mixture of content levels.

I think delve is/was a great addition, it's leveled the playing field for those who want great weapons but don't want to put the time and effort into getting a R/E/M to level 99, which is orders of magnitude higher than getting a base delve weapon.

It's too early to rule out GEO and RUN as viable jobs, as they don't yet have JSE, or even merits. I'm sure we'll see those jobs fall into place as they mature, especially with yet to be released content.

Really, I think it's just too early to make the call that Seeker's is failing, especially if it's the content most people seem to be enjoying at the moment, but I might look back on this post six months from now and agree with all of Pchan's points, but I hope not as I'm personally enjoying what Seeker's has to offer right now.

[Kincard]

Pchan is saying there is nothing worth doing in SoA. 95% of other threads regarding SoA as a whole claim that SoA is the only thing worth doing because old content got curb stomped. So which is it then? SoA is the only thing worth doing, or SoA is not worth doing?

They make nothing worth doing by making things not last long, it makes the stupid gear grind of the game become far more apparent. Beforehand when each patch only obsoleted maybe 1-2 pieces of gear at a time (if that) you would feel motivated to actually obtain new weapons and armor because you could probably rely on them to last a decent amount of time (or even close to all time if it was a JA piece or something). Now their philosophy is apparently have a tiered progression system at endgame, which doesn't fit XI's model in the least. It makes the whole "get gear to grind for better gear to replace your crappy gear" a lot more transparent (part of the skill of making an MMO is making the gear grind less obvious). XI also has gear grinding time to match the longer lastability- almost everyone gets a new piece of armor every time you run a WoW dungeon, in FFXI you need to do 5 45-minute runs so you can buy a weapon.

Simply put, people don't want to work on REMs because Delve is out, and lots of people don't want to work on Delve because they promised improving REMs but haven't gotten around to implementing or even telling us when it'd happen. It's pretty amazing that they're this bad at understanding what has motivated the playerbase for the past 7+ years of endgame. Why would we play WoW with an XI skin when we can actually play WoW which is superior in performance, breadth of content and customer service, or maybe one of the countless f2p MMOs out there which also gank this model?

I think the next patch might stabilize things by allowing us to upgrade Skirmish stuff but the way things have been implemented so far has been really lackluster. It might've been a lot more forgivable if there was a great story to be experiencing but 3 months post launch and we still have a total of...one actual story cutscene.

[Yinnyth]

Simply put, people don't want to work on REMs because Delve is out, and lots of people don't want to work on Delve because they promised improving REMs but haven't gotten around to implementing or even telling us when it'd happen.

So then you disagree with what Pchan originally posted? Ignoring the fact that he's implying he can farm and kill 6 ADLs in one run, he's claiming that farming umbral marrow is more lucrative than anything he could do in SoA, and therefore SoA fails because it does nothing to force him to farm SoA instead. Whereas you're claiming that SoA killed any desire to grind for REM.

Now, I can speak from experience, having led a Dynamis linkshell for the past... ok, I've forgotten how long it is now, but it's been a long time. We just farm marrow for our members at this point, but my members just keep completing more and more relics so we need to farm more and more marrow. Plus, I'm working on finishing my duardabla and carnwenhan. A few other people in my LS are also working to go from 90>99 duardabla, and a few other people on the server who frequent the same VW runs I join are working on duar or ochain.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is this: I disagree with the point you raised which I quoted. While it's true that there are fewer people upgrading RMEs, there is still no shortage of people willing to buy alexandrite, heavy metal plates, dross, cinder, or dynamis currency.

[Kincard]

The only reason people are still upgrading REMs is because they promised to improve them. Yes there are people who are always going to be motivated to keep playing, but that doesn't mean things haven't slowed down. I'm sure you know as well as any guy selling marrows that for those 2 weeks or whatever after Delve where everyone was going apeshit the sales slowed down quite a bit. It's recovering but we're still in that phase where a huge amount of people are unmotivated because they have no idea if working on something right now is even worth it.

1. Work on a delve weapon and they rebuff REM to be better -> waste of time
2. Work on REM for a waste of time now, rebuffed REM still don't match up -> waste of time

I rarely ever agree with pchan but I do agree that the expansion has been kinda lukewarm.

[Tamoa]

SoA has so far left me very confused and unmotivated, simply because I don't know where the game is heading anymore. It feels like nothing's worth doing because of the threat that any accomplishment will be made worthless in an update or two. I always thought I'd be playing FFXI till the servers shut down - now I'm unsure of how much more time I'm willing to invest in this game.

[Kojo]

SoA has so far left me very confused and unmotivated, simply because I don't know where the game is heading anymore. It feels like nothing's worth doing because of the threat that any accomplishment will be made worthless in an update or two. I always thought I'd be playing FFXI till the servers shut down - now I'm unsure of how much more time I'm willing to invest in this game.
Same feel here, I haven't logged on in weeks, and I started losing interest as soon as Delve was implemented for the same reason, there just doesn't seem to be a point to doing much atm, especially for me because the main selling point for me on SoA was RUN, which has gone absolutely nowhere and by the Dev's responces to the physical damage mitigation issues probably never will amount to much of a tank. I don't see much reason to continue playing. I've had field NMs depop at 1% way too many times for them to be any fun, any of the farming runs I join are too busy farming to do anything but refuse to kill the NMs in a fracture. Maybe some of this has changed, as I said, I haven't logged on in weeks.

I would've preferred SoA just be a regular expansion that simply added new gear along the lines of what we had, but with new stats. This new way of doing things is rather backwards and goes against all we've ever known in this game.

[Yinnyth]

waste of time
You're... you're....




You're playing an MMORPG. You're not solving world hunger. You're not making lives better. You're playing a game. You're wasting time. That is why you came here. You're here to waste time.

Or am I wrong? Did you come here for some other reason besides filling time you have no better use for?

[Sarick]

That can't be the truth of the matter, or most of the people commenting on the subject would be hyperbolic doomcriers who just want something to throw a fit about and will latch on to any argument which places blame on SE or denounces any recent change.

/stare

I didn't know I had fans.

[Sarick]

SoA has so far left me very confused and unmotivated, simply because I don't know where the game is heading anymore. It feels like nothing's worth doing because of the threat that any accomplishment will be made worthless in an update or two. I always thought I'd be playing FFXI till the servers shut down - now I'm unsure of how much more time I'm willing to invest in this game.

OMG, ths is so so so true it's one of the main reasons that validate how SoA broke things and how future updates might do the same. Pchan didn't see is that this affects casual players in huge margins when they can't keep up with the REQUAREMENTS to participate. This is because Pchan is a hardcore player with time and resources. The groups dong end game content only want players geared and really skilled (like Pchan) while the others can just throw out any chance of keeping up. It's not the players who are elitist that are the main cause of this. It's the direction to make special leveled gear mandatory to participate.

Pchan is what I would call obsessively HARDCORE and although some of those points are correct its coming from someone who doesn't understand how big a player casual/hardcore gap was created soon after the SoA launch.


You're playing an MMORPG. You're not solving world hunger. You're not making lives better. You're playing a game. You're wasting time. That is why you came here. You're here to waste time.

Or am I wrong? Did you come here for some other reason besides filling time you have no better use for?

I know this wasn't directed at me but I had to speak up about this. What you're saying is mostly true but there is something missing from the equation. That is the fun/entertainment values of wasting time in an alternate reality. So to put it bluntly I think what he's really saying is this isn't entertaining enough to be worth while.

People play games (waste time) because it's entertaining. If that factor didn't exist in them then people wouldn't play games. They'd be doing something super productive like solving world hunger for fun. Sadly, the direction seems to be more WORK like then actual entertainment to some players. It's also a big turn off because everything isn't laid out and can be obsoleted in a single update.

It's clearly a TRUE waste of time if you can't have fun while wasting time. Also not everyone has the same resources to have fun and concept of whats entertaining to them, everyone is different.

[Olor]

I find my currency and plates sell really fast.

[Karah]

I find my currency and plates sell really fast.

That's because there are -many- players with more money than brains. RMT sells gil 24/7, can't buy intelligence.

But yes, REM updates are reviving things that drop REM materials, but that's mainly attributed to the fact that Delve completely blows in every way possible except the reward system.

[Himrik]

Pchan is saying there is nothing worth doing in SoA. 95% of other threads regarding SoA as a whole claim that SoA is the only thing worth doing because old content got curb stomped. So which is it then? SoA is the only thing worth doing, or SoA is not worth doing?

SOA is the only thing to do, but it doesn't worth it :)

[Damane]

I dont know, I like the expansion so far alot, Delve is finally something challenging again for 18 man alliances (doint 5 NMs + Boss). I do agree tough that the lowman aka 6 man part of the game was left lackluster a bit.

[FrankReynolds]

You're... you're....




You're playing an MMORPG. You're not solving world hunger. You're not making lives better. You're playing a game. You're wasting time. That is why you came here. You're here to waste time.

Or am I wrong? Did you come here for some other reason besides filling time you have no better use for?

Somehow I think that you see this game as a viable form of entertainment, not a waste of time. Even if you absolutely hate this game and play it specifically to waste time, that in itself is providing you some form of reward and thus not a waste of time.

Pchan is right. Plasm is about the only thing worth getting any more and farming dynamis is the best way to get it. Not a great design.

[Draylo]

Uh you can't get Plasm by farming dynamis. All the Airlixirs +2 do is upgrade equipment and weapons, they don't buy you the weapons or equipment. The best way to get the plasm is killing mega boss and NMs in fracture. The expansion was promising at first but it has upset me a little as well. After I saw that R/E/M were trashed, I knew they would change it due to popular opinion but its taking a while. A lot of people are so against delve and they know most of the crap we're getting now will become obsolete. They introduced a new system to a game that was set in its ways with how things worked in terms of gear progression. I just think it will take a little while for things to get better.

I think they also alienated the casual player base of the game too much. The delve Mega boss aren't easy to PUG on most servers due to low population or inexperience etc. There isn't much to low-man in the new expansion and a lot of people who don't have access to a big LS are bored out of their minds (which is understandable.) I think they should work on that before they continue to keep obsoleting gear that came out a month ago.

[RyujinSephy]

I think they also alienated the casual player base of the game too much. The delve Mega boss aren't easy to PUG on most servers due to low population or inexperience etc. There isn't much to low-man in the new expansion and a lot of people who don't have access to a big LS are bored out of their minds (which is understandable.) I think they should work on that before they continue to keep obsoleting gear that came out a month ago.

I completely agree. Also a lot of the players they've been holding on to since the game came out 11 years ago now have kids. Most of the those players have/want to switch to a more casual play during the summer. Focusing more on making the current gear low-man will allow those players to catch up towards the end of the summer ready in time to start playing more again and not get left behind as much.

Actually, focusing on a roadmap that A (Releases big group type farming of high-end gear) then having a B (Fix to previous to make in low-man) patch to be released even 1-2 weeks before the next update with another A, then repeating the process would be a great strategy with the type of content they wish to give us to work with now.

[Registeel]

SoA has so far left me very confused and unmotivated, simply because I don't know where the game is heading anymore. It feels like nothing's worth doing because of the threat that any accomplishment will be made worthless in an update or two. I always thought I'd be playing FFXI till the servers shut down - now I'm unsure of how much more time I'm willing to invest in this game.
Rings so very true. As of late, my best friend and I mostly have only been working on Salvage II papers once a day (double drop event made it more enticing to get done), and if there are people we know doing delve runs, we may get invited along, though we do not belong to any large scale LS's. Beyond that, we feel rather aimless and lost in FFXI when it comes to the projects and goals we originally had laid out together.

[Comeatmebro]

Even if you farm 6 marrows/2h run with 8(?) characters, that's ~3.75m/char or player/hour. A T1-T6 run is worth ~71k plasm, resulting in 28 airlixir+1s per player. The 100% horn won't degrade below 10m. You get ra/ex drops, a handful of elixirs from the NMs themselves, and you're doing new and exciting content that requires an attentive alliance instead of beating up on a harmless NM from over a year ago. Two runs with a 1h reset in between is going to be as profitable as ADL, with a fixed achievable goal(I really doubt that most groups can farm 6 marrows consistantly with that few.. and there's a bit of luck overhead, you'll inevitably get runs where pen wants to screw you).

I'm not disagreeing with the greater problems, but to pretend ADL is more profitable than delve is a bit shortsighted, and I suspect you're only doing so because you don't have access to a group large enough to farm delve.

[Raksha]

Pchan's 8 characters are only 2 or 3 ppl though.

[hiko]

That can't be the truth of the matter, or most of the people commenting on the subject would be hyperbolic doomcriers who just want something to throw a fit about and will latch on to any argument which places blame on SE or denounces any recent change.

welcome on ffxiforums!
the truth is that most of the forumers ARE hyperbolic doomcrier.




People play games (waste time) because it's entertaining. If that factor didn't exist in them then people wouldn't play games. They'd be doing something super productive like solving world hunger for fun. Sadly, the direction seems to be more WORK like then actual entertainment to some players. It's also a big turn off because everything isn't laid out and can be obsoleted in a single update.

It's clearly a TRUE waste of time if you can't have fun while wasting time.


agree but in FFXI what make an event "sucessfull" is not how fun it is, but reward quality.
let say next VU SE add 2event
eventA is funiest event in FFXI history but rewards are at best side grades to older gear
eventB is most boring event but reward item lvl118 that can be aug up to unlimited lvl,
point rewarded per monster increase after each monster defeated

-most people will stick to event B and complain it's boring
-people who want to do event A will complain because they dont find enough people to do it, and that they are cant do B because they dont have REM99(afterupdate)D(boss) gear

also why do people care if it's obseleted next VU if they got entertained getting it, and get entertained next VU getting new gear?

[Demon6324236]

also why do people care if it's obseleted next VU if they got entertained getting it, and get entertained next VU getting new gear?Many people find a great deal of entertainment in improving their character, myself included, by believing that the next update will simply make your work pointless you unintentionally take away from the enjoyment because you know in your mind you believe what you just did only improved your character for a few days, or a few weeks at best, then it will mean almost nothing. Finishing something that makes a large impact, like when I finished Excalibur, that made me insanely happy and it was very entertaining to run around killing things with it for the first time. On the other hand if I knew that 2 weeks later the sword would go in my Sack and never be taken out, I would have never done it, and if I had finished it, I would have been happy and entertained but to a much lesser degree because the impact is much smaller, rather than being amazing and the best, it would be close to best, and above average. I would feel like my improvement was minor, and as I am entertained by that improvement, my entertainment is also minor by compare to if it were a large boost I knew would stay with me for a while, and stand out.

That's how I am at least.

[Kincard]

You're... you're....




You're playing an MMORPG. You're not solving world hunger. You're not making lives better. You're playing a game. You're wasting time. That is why you came here. You're here to waste time.

Or am I wrong? Did you come here for some other reason besides filling time you have no better use for?

Thanks for reminding me that the game is in fact, a game? As other people have pointed out, try to take what I'm saying in-context of us already understanding that fact instead of trying to play some kind of real life card.

(Unless you're going to tell me you still do Garrison, EFs, or Khimaira)

[kylani]

Many people find a great deal of entertainment in improving their character, myself included, by believing that the next update will simply make your work pointless you unintentionally take away from the enjoyment because you know in your mind you believe what you just did only improved your character for a few days, or a few weeks at best, then it will mean almost nothing. Finishing something that makes a large impact, like when I finished Excalibur, that made me insanely happy and it was very entertaining to run around killing things with it for the first time. On the other hand if I knew that 2 weeks later the sword would go in my Sack and never be taken out, I would have never done it, and if I had finished it, I would have been happy and entertained but to a much lesser degree because the impact is much smaller, rather than being amazing and the best, it would be close to best, and above average. I would feel like my improvement was minor, and as I am entertained by that improvement, my entertainment is also minor by compare to if it were a large boost I knew would stay with me for a while, and stand out.

That's how I am at least.

Me too. I was loving the game before Seekers.

[Tamoa]

Many people find a great deal of entertainment in improving their character, myself included, by believing that the next update will simply make your work pointless you unintentionally take away from the enjoyment because you know in your mind you believe what you just did only improved your character for a few days, or a few weeks at best, then it will mean almost nothing. Finishing something that makes a large impact, like when I finished Excalibur, that made me insanely happy and it was very entertaining to run around killing things with it for the first time. On the other hand if I knew that 2 weeks later the sword would go in my Sack and never be taken out, I would have never done it, and if I had finished it, I would have been happy and entertained but to a much lesser degree because the impact is much smaller, rather than being amazing and the best, it would be close to best, and above average. I would feel like my improvement was minor, and as I am entertained by that improvement, my entertainment is also minor by compare to if it were a large boost I knew would stay with me for a while, and stand out.

That's how I am at least.


QFT. Thank you for putting into words exactly how I feel.

[Sarick]

To me the seekers expansion ruined the game. They looked at other MMOs and tried to implement elements that worked for those in a world that was completely different. Before we had spaghetti and meatballs on the plate. Then the and crew saw a lot of people liked ice cream at another location down the road. In a genus attempt to make something fresh and new the team decided to replace the meatballs with ice cream scoops.

This is what happened to FFXI after the expansion. Although people like spaghetti and people like ice cream, some foods just don't mix well and FFXI has the case of mixing the wrong content. Item levels are garbage IMHO.. I'm not interested n playing anymore. My famely members are speaking of quitting and most of my friends on game gave quit or are on the fence about it. These choices aren't because the upcoming FFXIV. These are because the game has been ruined by the new direction it's developers choose.

When I hear people talking about delve << the first thing I see is developer. The moment seekers was introduced old content gear that I busted my ass earned was obliterated. After hearing this I'm like demon. WHY THE F'n should I work to improve my gear dong boring events so I can get stronger only to have it obsoleted a month down the road.

To me it's not entertaining knowing that all my effort s for naught. If I bust my arse getting gear and then the new developers make content that robs me of the usefulness of it in current content I'm not happy. Even though it's stil useful in old areas it's still telling me I WASTED my time and all that excitement I had is wash. At least when I leveled up and upgraded relic I knew that I was stronger as a character. Seeing as how gear is interchangeable as the new level up If they introduce new content I lose what I earned because it HAS to be replaced.

The truth about ITEM based leveling is it's way to ROB players of achievements. Look at it this way. When abbysea came out players had level caps raised. These new levels made the characters stronger. Everyone has EQUIAL opportunity to raise their levels and PARTICIPATE in the game. When you got level 99 you stayed level 99 no matter what gear you had equipped. The gear made you better and everything that was created for level 99 players worked you could have partal sets and still be manageable. When you removed gear you didn't suddenly drop to level 90 or level 75!

Now you level up by upgrading gear that on a whim will need replaced. MY GOOD WHO thought this crap up. I hate it so bad. It's probibly the wrose F'n system ever. You could've used the MERIT system or ways to upgrade or current gear or quest to upgrade the characters but NO you made us cram more crap into are bursting mog lockers and loath that we worked on RMES. I don't care if you decided to fix RMES you pulled a MICROSOFT on the customers.

Now if you want to participate in this game you need a lot of resources (time, money, friends) to get ahead and then on top of that you can't participate in new endgame content until to use their ITEM leveling ladder. This seperates the hardcore and casuals. Players who can't manage the complex tiered gear system that realise everything they acheave gets thrown out.

It's like re-berthing for level caps. You get to level 50 capped. To get to level 55 you need to restart to level 1 and level up again so when you get to level 55 you can start over at level 1 and repeat the process. All this to improve character. It's just a bunch of grinding on top of grinding where the mog house is so full of shit that it has become the furniture.

They keep adding more gear gear gear gear gear gear gear ~ gear and the mog space has always been a problem, and now that it's needed for your levels you MUST keep everything to maintain levels.

Seriously, I'm sick right now I want to PUKE thinking about how badly this game has been ruined I can't even articulate it in words. I'm going to end on that note because I simply can't waste my time explaining everything that the seekers expansion hurt in detail. It's just too much to explain. Right now I'm just holding out to see if the developers flip a switch like Microsoft did and the game direction changes to something I can enjoy again.

I doubt it.

[Monchat]

Even if you farm 6 marrows/2h run with 8(?) characters, that's ~3.75m/char or player/hour. A T1-T6 run is worth ~71k plasm, resulting in 28 airlixir+1s per player. The 100% horn won't degrade below 10m. You get ra/ex drops, a handful of elixirs from the NMs themselves, and you're doing new and exciting content that requires an attentive alliance instead of beating up on a harmless NM from over a year ago. Two runs with a 1h reset in between is going to be as profitable as ADL, with a fixed achievable goal(I really doubt that most groups can farm 6 marrows consistantly with that few.. and there's a bit of luck overhead, you'll inevitably get runs where pen wants to screw you).

I'm not disagreeing with the greater problems, but to pretend ADL is more profitable than delve is a bit shortsighted, and I suspect you're only doing so because you don't have access to a group large enough to farm delve.

70 k plasm is basically 7M per character per run. There are 18 players splitting the airlixir +2 and the horn that dropped so it doesn't greatly enhance the reward on a per character basis. So if you go purely for money, you do like 8M in a successful run of 45 minutes. Sure it's about comparable theoritically to marrows in a 6 man group. There are several issues though

- 18 man event with an experienced LS. In FFXI, no LS has ever been able to successfully gather 18+ ppl for several days or weeks. You can act as if it's as easy as triboxing ADLs, it's not.
- Farming plasm for money seems a bit retarded. Use money to buy relics ...?
- I'm just saying that if you got say 2 delve gear to max at rank 15, there are several option for you : farm plasm for a retarded progression rate on airlixirs ; farm NMs like the matamata for a mediocre progression rate ( 42 airlixirs 20% of which are HQ in one hour to split between 3 players) ; spent 2 hours in dynamis and fully upgrade 2 pieces of delve gear with 6 marrows used to buy some airlixirs +2 ; spam delve with 18 man ally nowhere available plus you need one that clears bosses. The last possibilitie is not even faster that the marrow one and very unlikely. I mean it's clear to anyone that anyone doing boss atm is capped on delve gear.


Anyway the marrow part of the post is anectotical. The point is seekers didn't make player move to the extension. Here is a copy/pasta of the shouts happening on quetz



Hershel : 新サルゼオルムいきます！無属性○前衛,詩(サポシ),赤or白or学募集！サチコ参照テルください！ 1/3~
(salvage)
LowJeuno
Mikky : Fafnir1戦or2戦 傭兵募集です。サチコメ参照の上 TELLください〜
(KSNM99)
UpJeuno
Hershel : 新サルゼオルムいきます！無属性○前衛,詩(サポシ),赤or白or学募集！サチコ参照テルください！ 1/3~
(salvage)
PortJeuno
Deweycox : «O. Bronzepiece» «T. Whiteshell» 5k «Can I have it?» «/tell»88888
(dynamis)
LowJeuno
Louc : «Salvage»突入お手伝いさん１名募集 20万ギルでどなたかお願いしますー
(salvage)
LowJeuno
Kutajimatoshito : アビセアアルテパにドミニオン乱獲しに行きませんか〜参加者いろいろ募集〜現在11名。箱〆
(abyssea exp)
LowJeuno
Fire : ケイザック武器解放４いきませんか？ ナイト、コルセア、詩人募集中 詳細はサチコメで 現在４名
(delve farm NMs)
LowJeuno
Louc : «Salvage»突入お手伝いさん１名募集 20万ギルでどなたかお願いしますー
(salvage)
UpJeuno
Kutajimatoshito : アビセアアルテパにドミニオン乱獲しに行きませんか〜参加者いろいろ募集〜現在13名。箱〆
(abyssea exp)
PortJeuno
Culoren : Aアルテパ上下ケルベロス１戦ずつ 型紙 アートマ ラーニング希望の方はTell下さい。
(abyssea)
UpJeuno
Hershel : 新サルゼオルムいきます！無属性○前衛,詩(サポシ),赤or白or学募集！サチコ参照テルください！ 1/3~
(salvage)
LowJeuno
Hershel : 中止します！エール失礼しました！
UpJeuno
Kutajimatoshito : アビセアアルテパにドミニオン乱獲しに行きませんか〜参加者いろいろ募集〜現在13名。箱〆
(abyssea)
PortJeuno
Culoren : Aアルテパ上下ケルベロス１戦ずつ 型紙 アートマ ラーニング希望の方はTell下さい。
(abyssea)
LowJeuno
Kutajimatoshito : アビセアアルテパにドミニオン乱獲しに行きませんか〜参加者いろいろ募集〜＠2名ですー。箱〆
(abyssea)
UpJeuno
Soracha : 20万ギルでサル突入を手伝ってくださる方を2名募集します、やってくださる方いらっしゃいましたらテルくださいな〜
(salvage)
PortJeuno
Culoren : Aアルテパ上下ケルベロス１戦ずつ 型紙 アートマ ラーニング希望の方はTell下さい。
(aby exp)
LowJeuno
Louc : 〆ますー ありがとうございました！
LowJeuno
Kuya : looking for black Chococard M and F «Can I have it?»
PortJeuno
Culoren : Aアルテパ上下ケルベロス１戦ずつ 型紙 アートマ ラーニング希望の方はTell下さい。現在５名
LowJeuno
Alphe : 革93↑練成74位の職人さん、10万Gで練成をお願いできませんでしょうか？(当方練成スキル○)
PortJeuno
Soracha : 20万ギルでサル突入を手伝ってくださる方を2名募集します、やってくださる方いらっしゃいましたらテルくださいな〜
PortJeuno
Culoren : Aアルテパ上下ケルベロス１戦ずつ 型紙 アートマ ラーニング希望の方はTell下さい。現在6名
LowJeuno
Uichiy : 21時からメナモリNMボス サチコ確認後テルください
LowJeuno
Soracha : 20万ギルでサル突入を手伝ってくださる方を2名募集します、やってくださる方いらっしゃいましたらテルくださいな〜


All I see is abyssea exp and salvage with one shout for delve NMs .. It's pretty pathetic considering jps are the most involved into delve...

[Demon6324236]

Right now I'm just holding out to see if the developers flip a switch like Microsoft did and the game direction changes to something I can enjoy again.

I doubt it.Key difference between Microsoft's changes and what SE could do. Microsoft was looking at their upcoming product failing because of bad business choices, and saw that if they did not do something then the console itself would flop, and a lot of investment as well as possibly an entire generation of consoles would be lost. SE on the other hand is looking at their old, and soon to be replaced MMO, if it flops, their new one has all their support, if it stays alive, it makes more money for sure, but still, its their old game, not as much riding on it as a new game, or console. I do agree though, I hope they turn around with some of these concepts and make things better, I have mixed feeling about everything that has happened in a while, most of all Delve, while I think Delve as an event is great, it brought terrible things with it.

[Svens]

Really wished Skirmish wasn't such a giant facepalm as described. As if the initially scarce pop items wasn't bad enough, now they're saying that the augments we currently have on our weapons will need to be erased before they can be upgraded, which is a dangerous precedent to set. If they're okay with that, imagine if they try to do the same with delve equipment. "Hey guys, we made +1 versions of all your weapons and armors! You'll have to erase any augments on them before upgrading, making all the time you spent on them wasted!"

[Sarick]

They should've just stuck with merit upgrades and added quest MN fights that increased the capacity of slots. This gear = levels sucks something horrible. It is just adding more content trash to fll the players storage. If it was based around merits people could do quest or nms to unlock +1-5 in say stats or +1-5 in weapon skills category. All while randomly dropping items and points that allow players to purchase items they want to upgrade RMES and DELVE weapons.

Merits have infinite growth possibilities! A single piece of gear also has infinite growth possibilities but once unequipped or replaced everything you put into it is lost. This is an issue that discourages players if items you earn become obsoleted. Marits growth options would never be obsolete. Sure you could change things around but you'd always keep the upgraded merit capacity. When the game adds new enemies growth will always be available and players would feel like they lost content working on it.

To assist players into helping others below the elite status triple+ enhanced rewards should be given if a group contains players who haven't beaten a NM and unlocked its benefits in their merits. Elitist mostly care only about themselves. If they have a truly gifted group setup then they should be able to handle one or two weak links. As a matter a fact be rewarded greatly for doing it. After all dragging around a weak link does increase the difficulty.

They get their points to upgrade their precious high end gear and are rewarded for helping others unlock merits!

Currently the game is setup to shun players who aren't up to specific standards. Adding a system that recognizes when a player helps another increasing their difficulty rewards them. This is a step in making the game BETTER for everyone. The developers would need to do to keep people from abusing this by restricting level and nation ranks to ensure players don't simply level up a mule.

I hate the new system also because it is a dog eat dog backstabbing system that requires to much social ass kissing or RMT style mercing to participate in anything unless you're already at the top. How fun is that? well, it's not fun.


You want to extend game play do it in a way that EVERYONE has a place in it. This new item system is chit and it separates the player base significantly to the point where you simply can't participate in content unless you're hard core in the first place. The developer need a serious translated WAKE UP call. I can assure you 100% of what people like myself have been saying hasn't been being translated to the developer. It's a fact THEY DON'T CARE if they ruin this game.

[Vivivivi]

With regards to the casual player base, I think it's important to keep in mind Seeker's is not complete. Skirmish was made too obscure to participate in, and already steps have been taken to make it more accessible, and it looks like it has a future. Yes while it's true that currently delve weapons blow the Skirmish weapons out of the water, remember the base stats for many of the Skirmish weapons are on par or better than the base damage from a level 75 Relic, Mythic or level 85 Empyrean, something that was previously unobtainable for the casual player (with exception of a few rare high priced crafted items).

Again, I have a handful of friends who are self described casual players who see Delve as hardcore stuff, but those people regularly participate in skirmish, reives, and meebles, and for the most part are big fans of that content. Their voices are also largely not represented on these forums because well, they're casual players. The don't play every day, but they play maybe every other day for a couple hours here and there, and for that audience, I think Skirmish, reives, and Meebles are fantastic ways for them to stay current and not be entirely excluded from everything.

What I DO agree with that many people are expressing on here is that the low-man content for non-casual players has been missing in Seeker's so far. I was having a blast for months with my small six to eight person linkshell that worked together on empyrean weapons, and salvage, but there is little for our group to do with those numbers in Adoulin, and Seeker's has effectively disbanded our shell because our group dispersed into larger Delve-centric shells.

I come back to my original stance on Seeker's- I think it's a work in progress, and the only way it will improve, is by us continuing to offer our constructive criticism, because ever since Mr. Matsui took charge, I feel the team is listening to us more now than ever.

[Powder]

Uh you can't get Plasm by farming dynamis. All the Airlixirs +2 do is upgrade equipment and weapons, they don't buy you the weapons or equipment. The best way to get the plasm is killing mega boss and NMs in fracture. The expansion was promising at first but it has upset me a little as well. After I saw that R/E/M were trashed, I knew they would change it due to popular opinion but its taking a while. A lot of people are so against delve and they know most of the crap we're getting now will become obsolete. They introduced a new system to a game that was set in its ways with how things worked in terms of gear progression. I just think it will take a little while for things to get better.

I think they also alienated the casual player base of the game too much. The delve Mega boss aren't easy to PUG on most servers due to low population or inexperience etc. There isn't much to low-man in the new expansion and a lot of people who don't have access to a big LS are bored out of their minds (which is understandable.) I think they should work on that before they continue to keep obsoleting gear that came out a month ago.

<3 You spoke my heart with this post. I am so disappointed I don't even want to play. I wouldn't buy a car I can't drive but I have bought an expansion I can't do much in. I am not into jumping in big alliances with strangers and being checked. I have friends that has happened to and the leader kicked them for their gear. When I heard that I didn't even bother trying to do anything but reives and that is getting old like a dog chasing it's tail and getting no where.

[Kojo]

Why don't we just have SE close down SoA content and give it a reboot like FFXIV? Or they could just remove SoA and everything that came with it and let the game be fun again. I came for RUN and after 99 levels got pretty much nothing, my PUP can tank better than RUN. I gained pretty much nothing with this expansion which is one reason I haven't logged on in close to 3 weeks, and was only checking in here and there before that.

[Demon6324236]

You want to extend game play do it in a way that EVERYONE has a place in it. This new item system is chit and it separates the player base significantly to the point where you simply can't participate in content unless you're hard core in the first place.Just a question, how much of this playerbase do you think is hardcore? If you can not do content unless your hardcore, what are casual players doing? Is there a reason casual players are doing nothing? I mean there is other content in the game, Delve is not everything there is, yet everyone seems hellbent on believing it is.

I fail to see how item level will be any different than now. What, you seriously think people will shout for people in gear that puts them to 110+? That would be retarded, even more so than RMED requirements, at least with RMEDs you are assured they are using a good weapon, for all I know if I shout for a level 110+ person they might show up in literally some of the worst gear in the game that puts them at that level. I don't mean bad as in not the best, literally stupid gear, like the Mikinaak hands, no augments, with just VIT+7 INT+13 MND+13 Attack+13 Haste+4%.

I think that item levels are a waste of time, especially if it effects nothing outside of Adoulin when it comes to xp, because that means the entirety of that change is meaningless... Really what you are saying makes no sense to me right here. Like I said, if hardcores are the only one who can do Delve, then why are casual players not following the tree SE gave? Yes, your excluded from Delve, but there is other content, Skirmish is just waiting for people to do it, since the items there are needed for Skirmish II weapons, who knows, might be able to get some interest sparked into it!

[Yinnyth]

Thanks for reminding me that the game is in fact, a game? As other people have pointed out, try to take what I'm saying in-context of us already understanding that fact instead of trying to play some kind of real life card.

(Unless you're going to tell me you still do Garrison, EFs, or Khimaira)

Yes, I'm sorry, I really did word that poorly and didn't get my point across. You said:


It's recovering but we're still in that phase where a huge amount of people are unmotivated because they have no idea if working on something right now is even worth it.

1. Work on a delve weapon and they rebuff REM to be better -> waste of time
2. Work on REM for a waste of time now, rebuffed REM still don't match up -> waste of time

What I was trying to say is that those people who feel unmotivated should get over themselves. Yes, delve weapons will probably be outclassed someday. Yes, RMEs are already outclassed and will probably be outclassed. Is it a waste of time? Yes, the whole damned game is a waste of time. We came here to waste time.

Now if you're trying to argue that it's not fun, that's a different matter entirely. Or if you're trying to argue that the next thing after delve weapons is going to be possible for you to obtain without climbing the delve ladder and therefore destroy your need to ever do delve, well, we could get into that discussion too. SE made a mistake giving people the opportunity to zombie second tier (IV and V) to death, and we hit second tier delve levels much more quickly than intended. That's probably why it's taking so much longer for people to max out on third tier delve (because the bosses have a time limit).

[Demon6324236]

What I was trying to say is that those people who feel unmotivated should get over themselves. Yes, delve weapons will probably be outclassed someday. Yes, RMEs are already outclassed and will probably be outclassed. Is it a waste of time? Yes, the whole damned game is a waste of time. We came here to waste time.You may have come here to waste time, I came here for entertainment, and part of that entertainment is enhancing my character. If I think or know that next month my enhancements this month will mean nothing then it largly impacts my enjoyment from doing the things I do to enhance my character.



Now if you're trying to argue that it's not fun, that's a different matter entirely. Or if you're trying to argue that the next thing after delve weapons is going to be possible for you to obtain without climbing the delve ladder and therefore destroy your need to ever do delve, well, we could get into that discussion too. SE made a mistake giving people the opportunity to zombie second tier (IV and V) to death, and we hit second tier delve levels much more quickly than intended. That's probably why it's taking so much longer for people to max out on third tier delve (because the bosses have a time limit).I agree and disagree. I think its still related before those things, but those are also related. So far as the zombie situation goes, its what I have been saying for a week or so now, we abused our chance at hyper-acceleration though content and left us how we are now. The only reason Mega Bosses were not abused in the same way is cause of the time limit like you said.

[Yinnyth]

You may have come here to waste time, I came here for entertainment, and part of that entertainment is enhancing my character. If I think or know that next month my enhancements this month will mean nothing then it largly impacts my enjoyment from doing the things I do to enhance my character.

You're correct there, and I did not consider it that way, I suppose. I always refer to FFXI as "wasting my time", but the truth is I really enjoy wasting my time in FFXI. Well, most of the time.

[Sarick]

Just a question, how much of this playerbase do you think is hardcore? If you can not do content unless your hardcore, what are casual players doing? Is there a reason casual players are doing nothing? I mean there is other content in the game, Delve is not everything there is, yet everyone seems hellbent on believing it is.

I dn't think you get it. It's not the fact that everything that left is hardcore it's just the fact that the new content was rushed and basically is the wrong direction. Like I said It's something I can't articulate. More or less a monster was created that very few will have the opportunity to experience. Hell, thats the whole point is making the game fun for everyone.

Let me ask you.. When you was joining those worm parties and low man groups for your gear didn't you ever notice how much more attractive the game was on a social level? That's the thing that kills several events because people are F'n jerks the game is about teaming up with these players. People say well just make your own team etc. Tried that shit and nearly had a panic attack.

The game should be created to be friendly and enjoyable for everyone. This can't be done if the content is created in a way that forces players to upgrade to even participate. IE item levels. The system I spoke of was one that included everyone in a broad perspective. Not only that but players would keep their gained power without stuffing their safe with more trash they'll be collecting dust after a while.

I don't know how to explain it to you because you're play style differs to much. For the most part all you need to know is the game has went down hill for a lot of players most unsubscribed already. I've lost hundreds of friends off my f-list. What remains most are people who are used to playing more several days a week. They've found something to waste time on.

Like I said the expasion and it's item leveling system is horrid. You seem to agree with the item system going in the wrong direction. I just want the game to be atractive again like it was when all the ABBYSEA content was added. OMG those days where fun we could level up and merit till everything was level 99.

Now If SE added some unique boss fights/quest that upgraded merit limits and gave enhanced gear upgrade treasure for groups that assist players who've never unlocked them that'd be a community bonus. I'm looking for events like dynamis before the abbysea where everyone could participate on any skill/gear level if they was 75 and had basic gear+skills. Now days its YOU NEED gear and or a lot of ass kissing.

Sorry. I can't explain it like I said thinking about how much has changed since SoA makes me sick.

[Sarick]

What I was trying to say is that those people who feel unmotivated should get over themselves. Yes, delve weapons will probably be outclassed someday. Yes, RMEs are already outclassed and will probably be outclassed. Is it a waste of time? Yes, the whole damned game is a waste of time. We came here to waste time.

This is a horrid way to influence FFXI players who are already on the fence. Remember the only reason SE keeps this game going is because it's still profitable. You think the groups of people who are unmotivated, can't participate, are the fence about quitting or have quit because of the development choices is HELPING this game?

IMHO it's hurting it. For every single player that speaks up there are many who don't. Each of those players represent $14+ a month in US currency. Some own multiple accounts and mules. This money is used to pay the staff, upgrade the game and keep the severs running. I'm sure you know this already. Here's a key element.

You say these people who need to get over themselves because they don't like how the game is playing out. Think about it they don't have to stay. Are you trying to entice these players to leave? Who's fault is this if the game isn't fun? It seriously can't only be the players fault.

In heart, don't you think the game would benefit much more if it was developed to be fun and addictive for everyone instead of a boring job like environment with nothing but a long pointless grids? I'm sure if it was quality material so many people wouldn't be complaining and um, quitting. Like I mentioned the few times. These forums don't give a good poll, it's the ones who didn't speak we should be worrying about.

[Quixote]

I am not the top of the line player but I do however pay for two accounts something I won't be doing anymore as soon as my Billing comes up on my 2nd account I will not be paying for the upcoming month.
lol they did get me with the bonanza stuff i will be writing the numbers down and wait for them to be announce if i happen to win and its really worth my $12 and change I pay get my price see what the deal is with the game by then.
i however will give it hold until August.

[bloodbeat]

I think they could at least give players other avenues to pursue this stuff. I think the development team underestimate the concept that getting help isn't an inevitability when playing a social game. It's out of the players' hands.
This only gets worsened by the fact that new content better serves to bottleneck the entire player-base.
In the case of delve, people are looking to only participate with players who are in the top percentage of players.

Then when you factor in that new content takes away overall participation in older content, it can decrease the availability of support on people who are behind in their progress, yet who still need some help getting up to scratch.

I'm sure nobody wants to have a game where you can homogenise people's achievements regardless of how much time and effort they put in, but at the same time, you shouldn't be encouraging or being seen to allow a huge divide to exist between casual and hardcore players.

I think there should be more solo or low-man alternative routes to getting, if not the same gear, then something very similar. Naturally, it should take a lot longer to do, but the important thing is at least it represents progress.
I mean, I'd have happily done 500-1000 soloable old Nyzul floors rather than wait for like two years to finally climb 100.

[kylani]

I am not the top of the line player but I do however pay for two accounts something I won't be doing anymore as soon as my Billing comes up on my 2nd account I will not be paying for the upcoming month.
lol they did get me with the bonanza stuff i will be writing the numbers down and wait for them to be announce if i happen to win and its really worth my $12 and change I pay get my price see what the deal is with the game by then.
i however will give it hold until August.

What's sad is, when I first read your post, I thought, oh, I need to write those down before my account goes inactive.

Then I thought, even if I won the grand prize, do I even care anymore? The game feels meaningless now.

[Sapphires]

From my point of view, the expansion is a failure

-Too much of the casual playerbase is caught up in getting the KIs then plasm grinding and getting multiple weapons and armor for random jobs, and not advancing a single job to an advanced level capable of taking on delve megaboss.
Many players continue to grind plasm in the most boring way possible and I feel this will actually burn out alot of people on the game.



Which brings me to the next related point:

-The game lacks enough motivated+skilled players to recruit for linkshells aiming to kill megabosses . Killing 1-4 NMs in a fracture run is not too difficult, but low server population and most people aren't up for the time commitment and high performance expected to do these.

which has created another side effect:

-Some LS sell megaboss wins for gil, which doesnt motivate people to build their skills or jobs or group up to learn how to beat the content themselves. Someone can just go farm gil for a couple weeks to buy a 'win' and unlock access to the best weapons in the game for plasm.

-The developer's hopes for a dynamic world have failed imo. Noone wants to help maintain bivouacs so we are lucky if we have more than 1 in any zone. This destroys zone accessibility for solo/small groups and general exploring of every zone. You have effectively REDUCED the amount of game content in this expansion that people can access easily.

-Colonization continues to decay, and noone enjoys 5 hour naakual fights.
I got lucky and got the item I wanted from Tchakka on my 1st fight, I will never do that one again - your battle design and reward system for these is terrible and creates little incentive to do wildkeeper reives multiple times.

-The draw of participating in delve as an income source from selling airlixir is disappearing since a couple LS can now farm megaboss and continue to push the price down. This design creates less interest in plasm farming for casual players because its less viable money making alternative.

Lower airlixir prices do create more appeal in spending farmed plasm on more gear or upgrading gear (HOWEVER, you have given us no way to store conveniently all the new gear since we have not gotten any more storage space).

The drastic jump in gear power instills a lack of faith in pursuing some gear and upgrades since people feel it may be completely outclassed in the future. Previously, gear was more horizontal/sidegrade/situational and people felt generally more secure the time and effort into pursuing items.
This is probably the most dangerous change to the game in its 11 year existence since it destroys motivation to play and makes people doubt what they should be spending their time doing to advance their characters for the long term.

[Kaeviathan]

I was playing last night as a Rune Fencer and messing around in the new areas. I was experimenting Blue mage as a support Job and I found it very useful. I took advantage of the chain affinity and magic bursting lunge for nearly 3.7k of dmg. Now heres where the boring part came in. No one was doing colonization reives, and after defeating countless of tough Mobs around the area, not once have i gotten a drop of an item that is not a crystal or stones used for trial of the magians. Farming bayld points or ítems to sell from the new area is pointless as it stands now. So, all this new content has got to offer for us is to farm plasm points. I didn't mind at first, i got what i wanted from it, but to keep doing the same thing over and over again for airlixirs (really don't like how this is obtained) isn't really fun. Hoping the new content is coming out soon, or ima just calll iit quits. Neither i plan to play FFXIV, FFXI is my FIRST, ONLY, and the LAST MMORPG i'll play. I have played this game for more than 6 years, I've experienced how addictivies these games are.

[Glamdring]

I disagree, though Pchan makes many valid points.

I don't think Seekers is failing, but I hesitate to say it'll be a wild success, as it stands right now, it's a work in progress.

Delve has replaced voidwatch on our server, maybe we play at different times? I never see VW shouts anymore. Skirmish expansions look promising, but keep in mind I think the target audience for skirmish is the more casual players. I know many people who don't really do delve but do skirmish a lot. I think it's a nice mixture of content levels.

I think delve is/was a great addition, it's leveled the playing field for those who want great weapons but don't want to put the time and effort into getting a R/E/M to level 99, which is orders of magnitude higher than getting a base delve weapon.

It's too early to rule out GEO and RUN as viable jobs, as they don't yet have JSE, or even merits. I'm sure we'll see those jobs fall into place as they mature, especially with yet to be released content.

Really, I think it's just too early to make the call that Seeker's is failing, especially if it's the content most people seem to be enjoying at the moment, but I might look back on this post six months from now and agree with all of Pchan's points, but I hope not as I'm personally enjoying what Seeker's has to offer right now.

I'm with you, especially about skirmish, but I think Matsui already said that was a tier so casual players could get strong enough to tackle the delve content, since many casuals-especially those that don't focus on a single job-don't necessarily have top-flight gear sets now, especially not full R/M/E weaps. Example, paladin used to be a loved job-both to play and to have in your pt-but abyssea killed that for almost 2 years, so many that were building a relic just stopped since they couldn't get any pld playtime or see themselves EVER getting any so why bother making R/M/E they are just going to shelve?

Hopefully if the new skirmish content can bring viable rewards it can get a couple more jobs off the scrap heap and their strength when built can keep those jobs heading to the scrapheap off. And since the casuals outnumber the elites they are responsible for more of the dollars going into SE's coffers, so SE better make sure there is a path to keep them viable as players. I'm just not sure 3-4 supergrinds is the way to do that.

[Sargent]

SE have lost half of the players I know due to the new content. Adding gear that was better than R/M/E was the first straw, but making more or less every piece of new gear come from Delve which requires a mass amount of grinding was the last straw for them.

Personally, I don't see this game lasting long anymore. It's not because XIV is out soon (although, that will become a contributing factor), it's the new expansion. Adoulin has made the need for most Lv.99 content redundant. That wouldn't be so bad if the new content was enjoyable. Delve is a grind, and as much as older content was too, SE have made it so you need a massive amount of it (think gear and Airlixirs). This is why people I know are quitting, the new content is boring, neverending and makes most other content redundant.

[Camiie]

As long as there are Plasm or Fracture NM farms going on, SoA is the greatest thing ever. If not? I might as well <Log Off>. Not sure who that agrees or disagrees with, and others' mileage may vary, but that's how I see the state of the game these days.

[Karah]

As long as there are Plasm or Fracture NM farms going on, SoA is the greatest thing ever. If not? I might as well <Log Off>. Not sure who that agrees or disagrees with, and others' mileage may vary, but that's how I see the state of the game these days.

Well fracture sucks regardless of whether you're in it, or wish you were in it, but yeah, if it's not going on, just staring at a wasted day.

[MarkovChain]

I see 3 major changes required for the game to not crash

- Give real reasons to do do reives and unlock warps (those reasons should not be ... kill the reive to access this or that delve NM, or obviously it shouldn't be so that you can equip your pimp thurandaut body !). I suggest allowing airlixirs to drop from reives. I know the devs reading this will think "NOOOO!", but that the only way casual players do anything in seekers. Otherwise they will stick to abyssea, salvage and vw trust me. This is coming from someone harcore that can 6-man nearly all delve NMs. This simple fix will allow us experienced players to move quickly around NMs, and will give easy (though still slow) progression to casuals. You need like 600 airixirs to max a piece of gear anyway so you take no risks. Also suggesting to allow the KIs equippement (except weapons) be buyable with a large amount of plasm.

- skirmish : after reading the last post on the subject from the devs, I don't expect anything. They have no clue about it. It took me 15 runs to get a pair of ninzas. I only ever saw one stone +2 drop. The head system is broken UNLIKE what they say. A higher tiered head doesn't allow better stones or if it does it's only a probability which of course doesn't happen. There is an obscur chest level system in the zone that nobody figured out so maye it's time fro them to explain ? Inbefore random.

- RUN and GEO. I'm sure 90% of the people that came back for adoulin did it for the new jobs and you lost them. Your jobs suck, and me as well as others have explained to you many times why before the expansion went live. RUN is inferior to PLD, whatever you do. If not well prove it by tanking any delve NMs with it (and Im not even talking about tojil). GEO only offers something on the mega bosses... and even this is arguable.


Also mage gear sucks compared to melee but it's been so for years so it's ok, people will still dualbox their mages.

[Yinnyth]

I see 3 major changes required for the game to not crash

- Give real reasons to do do reives and unlock warps (those reasons should not be ... kill the reive to access this or that delve NM, or obviously it shouldn't be so that you can equip your pimp thurandaut body !). I suggest allowing airlixirs to drop from reives. I know the devs reading this will think "NOOOO!", but that the only way casual players do anything in seekers. Otherwise they will stick to abyssea, salvage and vw trust me. This is coming from someone harcore that can 6-man nearly all delve NMs. This simple fix will allow us experienced players to move quickly around NMs, and will give easy (though still slow) progression to casuals. You need like 600 airixirs to max a piece of gear anyway so you take no risks. Also suggesting to allow the KIs equippement (except weapons) be buyable with a large amount of plasm.

- skirmish : after reading the last post on the subject from the devs, I don't expect anything. They have no clue about it. It took me 15 runs to get a pair of ninzas. I only ever saw one stone +2 drop. The head system is broken UNLIKE what they say. A higher tiered head doesn't allow better stones or if it does it's only a probability which of course doesn't happen. There is an obscur chest level system in the zone that nobody figured out so maye it's time fro them to explain ? Inbefore random.

- RUN and GEO. I'm sure 90% of the people that came back for adoulin did it for the new jobs and you lost them. Your jobs suck, and me as well as others have explained to you many times why before the expansion went live. RUN is inferior to PLD, whatever you do. If not well prove it by tanking any delve NMs with it (and Im not even talking about tojil). GEO only offers something on the mega bosses... and even this is arguable.


Also mage gear sucks compared to melee but it's been so for years so it's ok, people will still dualbox their mages.

- airlixirs from reives will not make reives enticing. The price of airlixirs has been dwindling gradually since they were introduced, and with airlixirs as a possible reward from bonanza, the price is going to dip down even further after the winning numbers are announced. Airlixirs also cannot be used on the real rewards from delve: boss drops, so as more and more players begin defeating bosses, airlixirs will slowly fade into becoming useless.

- Skirmish: Use a larger body, Pchan. It means more objectives and a longer time limit as well as more rewards at the end. With a body IV, we had 7 weapons at the end of a skirmish (a lot were repeats of one another, but that's still a good chunk of weapons). 2 of the people we had along for that run got a +2 stone, though I only got NQ myself. In short, the more enemies you kill, the more loot you get at the end.

- RUN and GEO: Both jobs need a lot of tweaking, yes. You are correct about this. I doubt moaning will make SE fix them any faster though. AF and merits next patch (which is taking FOREVER to roll out), AF2 and AF3 sometime in the unforseen future. SE has several improvements planned, they just haven't been able to implement them quickly enough to satisfy us.

[Kincard]

What I was trying to say is that those people who feel unmotivated should get over themselves. Yes, delve weapons will probably be outclassed someday. Yes, RMEs are already outclassed and will probably be outclassed. Is it a waste of time? Yes, the whole damned game is a waste of time. We came here to waste time.

If people "get over themselves", they'll probably just quit the game because it doesn't offer what they find fun anymore, which is the point. Isn't that why we're here discussing all this in the first place? I'm glad you find the state of the game to be fun the way it is but the point is just that lots of people don't like the direction it's headed in.

[CrAZYVIC]

Im Talking only about DELVE, Because DELVe is the Real Problem.


For Enjoy Delve NMS or Fracture Plasma Farms. you need the following requeriments

1.- 1 Support Job. BRD,COR, WHM. Or O Chain. PLD. THen you can join easy all Plasma Farm Shouts.

If you are DD, you will have several problems for find a spot in Shout Groups

99.9% the Delve Shouts look like this

Plasma Farm Do you need it? BRD, COR, WHM AND PLD /Tell.

2.- A Good end game LS.

If you have a good LS then you probably will be enjoying this content.

Because:

1.- Your leader will put the group togheter for you
2.- You can play 90% the time the job you Like to play. Your LS leader will Shout for the brds, cors, plds etc.
3.- Your LS schedule will look like this Monday - Wednesday - Thursday. Delve Plasma Farms x2 or 3 runs each Day, then you will be progressing in the game easy.

If you dont have this requeriments, DELVE is not fun all.

[Demon6324236]

Really I find the PLD thing funny because its a waste, why shout for an Ochain PLD when you can get any person with Twilight to do the same job with 0 chance for failure and no possible need for extra attention, unless they cancel RR, in which case... yeah...

[Olor]

I just wish plasm farming wasn't so boring. Even with a super weapon there to tempt me, I don't really feel like doing it ever.

Voidwatch had a way worse loot system but it was a lot more fun. Killing trash mobs is terrible.

[MarkovChain]

- airlixirs from reives will not make reives enticing. The price of airlixirs has been dwindling gradually since they were introduced, and with airlixirs as a possible reward from bonanza, the price is going to dip down even further after the winning numbers are announced. Airlixirs also cannot be used on the real rewards from delve: boss drops, so as more and more players begin defeating bosses, airlixirs will slowly fade into becoming useless.

- Skirmish: Use a larger body, Pchan. It means more objectives and a longer time limit as well as more rewards at the end. With a body IV, we had 7 weapons at the end of a skirmish (a lot were repeats of one another, but that's still a good chunk of weapons). 2 of the people we had along for that run got a +2 stone, though I only got NQ myself. In short, the more enemies you kill, the more loot you get at the end.

- RUN and GEO: Both jobs need a lot of tweaking, yes. You are correct about this. I doubt moaning will make SE fix them any faster though. AF and merits next patch (which is taking FOREVER to roll out), AF2 and AF3 sometime in the unforseen future. SE has several improvements planned, they just haven't been able to implement them quickly enough to satismog that fy us.

Are you seriously explaining that mog bonanza is going to fix airlixir supply for casual players ?

Body tiers do increase the # of wpns, but it's not really the issue anymore because pops are cheap. The main issue was stone +1/2 availability. Besides obsidian fragments are useless..

Finally AF3+2 or merit doesn't change any job from super shit to useful.


IMO SE should just stop considering 18 man content rewards should de facto be superior to 6 man content. It's like they forgot salvage and dynamis have been their only success for the past year(s). If they want to keep normal ppl playing they have to offer equal rewards between skirmish and delve mega boss for instance. If you think about it, getting a boss reward only requires you to lot (and in this case only requires a kill). As such it's much easier to get than nyzul or salvage gear. But it's their logic. I think they didn't fully understand yet WHY so may people have been QQing that their RME has been ruined to trash. The idea that the weapons you've worked "hard" for (aka you invested one or several hundred hours of playtime) can be outdamage by a 40% margin by a single rare/ex drop, even if this drop if hard to get, would bother anyone. Beside those boss seem to be spamable at will, it's not a once day or week thing.

It's like they've never farmed themselves the 50 assaults, the 150 token or ampula for a mythic.

Of course they announced that RME are going to be improved. But as a consequence it also makes farming delve mega boss pointless for the vast majority of hardcore players, let alone casual players. So that's the vicious circle we are in atm. If the mega only had given armors superior to the delve-equippement I think it would have worked better.

[Tamoa]

I just read through all the possible rewards from mog bonanza and I don't see airlixirs being mentioned anywhere - am I blind?

[Registeel]

I just read through all the possible rewards from mog bonanza and I don't see airlixirs being mentioned anywhere - am I blind?
Rank 2 has Kupon De:
"Mog Bonanza Kupon De
This coupon can be redeemed for both one of the items listed below and three Airlixirs +2
- Mikinaak Helm - Mikinaak Breastplate
- Mikinaak Gauntlets - Mikinaak Cuisses
- Mikinaak Greaves - Manibozho Beret
- Manibozho Jerkin - Manibozho Gloves
- Manibozho Brais - Manibozho Boots
- Bokwus Circlet - Bokwus Robe
- Bokwus Gloves - Bokwus Slops
- Bokwus Boots"

[Tamoa]

Apparently I am blind. ; ;

[Kristal]

* Skirmish. This one was a giant faceplam. Most retarded pop item distribution ever, with basicallly inexistant stone +2. Good rewards. Then delved poped and the thing became useless in one update. And by useless I mean everyone know a single tier IV/V delve run is giving you access to a weapon much better. The event was probably the most exciting part of the ext. though. Because 6 mannable content was one of the most wanted content from their census. But no, we got delve (most of it is low mannable though but not if you are the everage joe).


Skirmish weapons are upgradable to +1 versions with a higher IL then delve weapons, although I presume it's based on maximum augment stats only player across all servers will get.


Apparently I am blind. ; ;

No worries, so is SE. They are still offering the DNC empyrean armor as a reward for PUP.

[Damane]

peoples are bitching/whining for the sake of whining, god low man content is allready in the works with skirmish 2.0 new colo reive items etc. Just stop, the expansion is great so far and just needs some tweeks here and there in colonization. Delve is the best thing FFXI had in a long time (better then abyssea).

[Oakrest]

Delve is the best thing FFXI had in a long time (better then abyssea).

Delve and SoA ruined FFXI. It shat in the face of R/M/E holders, lowman/small-group parties, and put an end to meaningful character progression. If Delve is the best thing that happened to FFXI, then you want to see FFXI die.

Abyssea was by far the most interesting, enjoyable, and progressive content FFXI saw.

[Sarick]

Delve and SoA ruined FFXI. It shat in the face of R/M/E holders, lowman/small-group parties, and put an end to meaningful character progression. If Delve is the best thing that happened to FFXI, then you want to see FFXI die.

Abyssea was by far the most interesting, enjoyable, and progressive content FFXI saw.

Here here, cheer cheer. The man speaks the truth 100 fold. This is the time when players flooded those zones and the content gave rewards everywhere. You not only got gear upgrades by abbysite, KI for trait like benefits. It was just progression that allowed everyone to work at their own pace with large or small groups. If people need to wait for Seekers 2.0 then it was released to soon.

IMHO, this game is split. Everything Pre-seekers is almost completely different. Sure everything is gutted around the same thing but now items and gear wear your character instead of you wearing it. Without the gear (considering it decides your character level) your progression is voided.

[Masamune11]

SE -end the storyline so that us Final Fantasy fans can feel that we completed the game and move onto 14. Those who want to stay for endgame can stay and make their characters stronger to fight more difficult reskinned NMs in future updates.

[Yinnyth]

Are you seriously explaining that mog bonanza is going to fix airlixir supply for casual players ?

No, I'm saying it will cause airlixir price to drop even further than it already has. You were attempting to say that adding airlixirs to reives would make reives more popular. I'm saying you're wrong because airlixirs are cheap, getting cheaper, and have 2 major events in the future which will cause their price to drop even faster: bonanza, and common players finally farming delve bosses and no longer needing airlixirs (plus getting over 30,000 plasm per boss kill). No one would look at airlixirs going for 1k gil and say "Hey, 10% chance of getting one from reives? Yeah, let's go do reives!"


Body tiers do increase the # of wpns, but it's not really the issue anymore because pops are cheap. The main issue was stone +1/2 availability. Besides obsidian fragments are useless..

Higher tier bodies increase all the loot you get because loot gets added to personal and group pool after seemingly random kills in skirmish. With tier 1 bodies, yeah, it's going to take a lot of runs before you see many +2 stones. With tier 4 body, 2 of our members got +2 stones. In runs I did with pickup groups (head/body/legs all tier 1), we had at least one member claiming to get a +2 stone in about 50% of our runs, and these were fairly newbish guys (under-leveled ToM weapons and full-time AF3+1 gear), so it was rare for us to reach goal 2.

[Demon6324236]

Apparently I am blind. ; ;Don't feel bad, I went to look for about 15min and came back empty handed on info myself, wonder why neither of us thought of using the find feature?

[Yinnyth]

SE -end the storyline so that us Final Fantasy fans can feel that we completed the game and move onto 14. Those who want to stay for endgame can stay and make their characters stronger to fight more difficult reskinned NMs in future updates.

That sounds awful. You want the game to become awful just so you can quit with no regrets. You've already made up your mind that you're gonna stop playing FFXI, and you think they're going to do you this favor which spits in the face of every player who chooses to stay? No, you can't honestly believe that's how it would work.

[FrankReynolds]

That sounds awful. You want the game to become awful just so you can quit with no regrets. You've already made up your mind that you're gonna stop playing FFXI, and you think they're going to do you this favor which spits in the face of every player who chooses to stay? No, you can't honestly believe that's how it would work.


LOL They won't do it, but not for the reasons you're thinking. They have no problem spitting in people's faces. They just don't have the manpower to make an ending. Besides, how would ending the main story line ruin the game? It's not like any decent story line has been / will be added in recent times anyways.

[Demon6324236]

It sounds awful to finish the story up so people can leave while knowing what happens in Vana's final expansion without waiting 3 years? To me that sounds awesome. The rest of the comment is accurate too, we will end up fighting more reskined NMs, its what we always do anyways, why would it change?

[Yinnyth]

It sounds awful to finish the story up so people can leave while knowing what happens in Vana's final expansion without waiting 3 years? To me that sounds awesome. The rest of the comment is accurate too, we will end up fighting more reskined NMs, its what we always do anyways, why would it change?

The entire storyline completely over... never any new story... yes, that sounds awful.

[FrankReynolds]

The entire storyline completely over... never any new story... yes, that sounds awful.

That response implies that you believe there will be more, significant story line after SoA...

When, out of curiosity do you think that will be?

[Demon6324236]

The entire storyline completely over... never any new story... yes, that sounds awful.Miniature stories such as quests or things like VW, truly unimportant and uninspired story, those can continue coming out, the primary story, in this case SoA, yes, needs to be finished and be completely over.

[Monchat]

Im Talking only about DELVE, Because DELVe is the Real Problem.


For Enjoy Delve NMS or Fracture Plasma Farms. you need the following requeriments

1.- 1 Support Job. BRD,COR, WHM. Or O Chain. PLD. THen you can join easy all Plasma Farm Shouts.

If you are DD, you will have several problems for find a spot in Shout Groups

99.9% the Delve Shouts look like this

Plasma Farm Do you need it? BRD, COR, WHM AND PLD /Tell.


Just because the maximum limit is 18 doesn't mean it's impossible with less. You can basically go there with just three people and exit with 2k. Examples:

- 3 man: THF DD WHM will do 1.5k~2k plasm and many airlixirs.
- 6 man: ~4k
- 18 man shout group NQ farming: 5-6k ? only been in one or 2.
-18 man NM shout group: 4-5 NMs killed and random NQ mob for at least 10k.

[Yinnyth]

That response implies that you believe there will be more, significant story line after SoA...

When, out of curiosity do you think that will be?

Forgive me then, allow me to elaborate. He was saying end the storyline, and you're never allowed to do significant story line ever again because he doesn't want to come back. If I'm still playing the game, I want my rights to significant storyline. Even if it's unlikely to happen, I don't want some a-hole player who wants to leave the game completely dictating what I do and do not get in the future.

I would have the same response to anyone who wants SE to hurry up and finish anything, then never allow SE to ever expand on it again.

[FrankReynolds]

Forgive me then, allow me to elaborate. He was saying end the storyline, and you're never allowed to do significant story line ever again because he doesn't want to come back. If I'm still playing the game, I want my rights to significant storyline. Even if it's unlikely to happen, I don't want some a-hole player who wants to leave the game completely dictating what I do and do not get in the future.

I would have the same response to anyone who wants SE to hurry up and finish anything, then never allow SE to ever expand on it again.

To be clear though, you realize that there is a high likelihood that you would never see another addition to the "main" story line again anyways right?

Because if this was 5 years ago, I would be right there with you on this, but currently I think we may be down to our last chance to ever see a conclusion. With that in mind, and given the lackluster stories that have come out over the last few years, I would rather just end it. I'd rather see it go out with a bang than dies a slow death with no conclusion. I liked the story in other FF games, but I've never been that interested in stories in MMOs so I'm sure others will disagree with me.

I also have a personal reason. For 8 years now, my girlfriend who plays every other FF game in existence (well most of them anyways) refuses to pick up this game or FFXIV because she says "Video games should have an ending... blah blah blah". It would be bittersweet to say "HA HA! You missed out :P"

[MarkovChain]

Airlixirs down to 5-7M (15 are up at the AH on my server), marrows are 10M still. We are about to reach 1 marrow = 2 airlixirs. Plasm farming is officially dead.

[Zumi]

Airlixirs down to 5-7M (15 are up at the AH on my server), marrows are 10M still. We are about to reach 1 marrow = 2 airlixirs. Plasm farming is officially dead.

If everyone farmed ADL the price wouldn't be that high, plasm farming is a easier to do for most people since its pretty mindless and you can join random pick up groups all day long. ADL takes a lot more effort to put a group together.

SoA being boring or whatever is more to do with not many people working on FFXI anymore then anything else.

[Damane]

Airlixirs down to 5-7M (15 are up at the AH on my server), marrows are 10M still. We are about to reach 1 marrow = 2 airlixirs. Plasm farming is officially dead.

dunno about you but gettign 210kx18 (18 people) plasm in 3 hour + a shitload of expensiv craft mats and gear and airlixirs +2 sounds alot hotter to me then doing ADL.

[Riggs]

i feel completly left out of this whole expansion, i work long hours and can mostly only play weekends, my main is thf and i have a 95 relic, i get invited to nothing, i have good gear and do great damage but no one wants a thf, sure i have drk and war at 99 but only off the shelf weapons on those jobs so again no invites, and the fact that many of the nm's only need beating once makes it even worse as most won't repeat them spreading the wins among more people. so to sum up i wasted my money buying this expansion

[Xantavia]

- RUN and GEO. I'm sure 90% of the people that came back for adoulin did it for the new jobs and you lost them. Your jobs suck, and me as well as others have explained to you many times why before the expansion went live. RUN is inferior to PLD, whatever you do. If not well prove it by tanking any delve NMs with it (and Im not even talking about tojil). GEO only offers something on the mega bosses... and even this is arguable.
Sadly, it's not the jobs themselves that have turned me off, but the announcement that AF will be level 99 did. I was having fun taking RUN out solo and killing stuff, then stopped at 50 waiting for the release. I've done that will all jobs in the past, but they changed direction with these two jobs. It killed all motivation to keep playing them because I personally don't enjoy racing a job to cap, then figure out what it can do. I like seeing gradual growth, gear included, but they lost me with this decision.

[Alhanelem]

I wonder why they didn't make comments since people kill 4x faster going back to real jobs like MNK, BRD, WHM etc.Everyone always focuses on killing faster, but slow and steady can sometimes win the race more easily. suicidal zergs are fun and usually work but finesse, which is often lost on today's players, can make some fights a less stressful experience.

GEO has one thing going for it which makes it useful, the fact that it can debuff some enemies that can't easily be debuffed any other way. I think the technical issues and the things that are being addressed by the next patch kind of overshadow the fact that GEO can actually be put to some reasonable use.

I think the expansion is fun when I get to play its content, but delve kind of ruined everything because it's far too difficult to get into for everyone who wasn't ahead of the curve at the moment it came out.


Sadly, it's not the jobs themselves that have turned me off, but the announcement that AF will be level 99 did.Of all things, why did THIS turn you off? Do you really want to walk all over a bunch of easy quests to get oyur job's trademark gear? Do you really want to spend all the time grinding to upgrade them before they beocme useful? Do you really want to do level 40-50 stuff in a level 99+ area?

Honestly, this move makes sense. if it wasn't unfair to everyone who hasn't already completed all the other job's AF quests and done the upgrades, i'd say they should all be changed to be like this. It's a little weird that the AF will be the higher tier of job armor for these jobs, but I'll take it if it means relevant gear with good stats.

[Radd]

The game pretty much became meh around the time that it was a requirement to have the weapons that take weeks and weeks to grind out. You can no longer just pick up, progress a bit and play. For most players, trying to get a RMED to 90+ is a brick wall of frustration. Honestly now, it's just very boring to grind out a weapon. There's no uniqueness to them anymore anyway, considering most no-lifers and major players already have multiple bundles of them. Missed the ship for getting Delve farming? Tough luck. Good luck trying to get a bunch of people to help you in most cases if you aren't playing often.

Current way the game is played for the average new player is:
-Start the game, level up and screw around while having some fun.
-Get to about level 30 and realize that no one actually parties at all except in abyssea or huge alliance parties, so you got abyssea and stand around very bored, or opening boxes for a bunch of levels, or get bored of wandering around in gusgen mines or crawler's nest.
-Realize that a large portion of gear before AF3 is completely meaningless and a waste of time to get now except for Rajas Ring and a few others, so do all the missions... Solo or with a friend, if you made one by now
-Finally get all that done, leveled up your job to the cap, and realize that now all your skills are gimp.
-Skill up for hours and hours, boring yourself to death in the process
-All done skilling up? Okay, time to do some AF3 farming for some basic gear, so you can participate in well, anything remotely interesting. Oh wait, need a few people to do this for awhile. This'll take you a few days or weeks, depending on how lucky you are.
-Okay, you are all geared up with just your regular set and have an ass weapon. "I better get a Empy weapon, I hear that is easy." "I think I can grind out a relic in a month or two! No sweat!"
-Realize you picked the wrong job to even attempt doing this, switch your job to BST, NIN or WHM.
-Do the above steps again.
-Realize that getting an empy alone is impossible, so you ask your friends, most of whom are busy and say "lol it's easy just dual box it and get it yourself!"

At this point you can either
-Buy another account and level up a dual-boxed heal bot to help you farm your 85 kannagi, then following on that, get the actual weapon you want so it'll be a lot faster.
-Suck it up and try to get your friends to help you get your empy weapon by constantly annoying and begging them, even though they are sick of it.
-Go for the relic and waste a month or two in dynamis, doing the same thing over and over again, still being behind of course.
-Say screw it and try for Delve and hope you can just leech a good free weapon.
-Let's not forget, you'll need to do some voidwatch in here somewhere, so stand around in Jeuno for shouts for hours at a time to progress here, or start one yourself, same thing, time is sunk.

Remember, this is just to be at par with doing a decent amount of damage as a DD. If you are a main heal, it's pretty much easy mode, but not everyone likes standing there spamming cures on people.

Stan: I can't believe it's all over. What do we do now?
Cartman: What do you mean? Now we can finally play the game.

This quickly comes to mind. There comes a point in time to just walk away from something or someone you love. This is one of those times.

Wall of text aside, there's a reason why many players have left and not bothered coming back. Once you are behind in FFXI at this point, the simplest way to put it is you are SOL, because someone will in most cases have better gear and stuff than you, so you won't get picked until you have it... but if you don't get picked to do the events to get the gear- oh. Right.

/rant

FFXI needs help. It's sad to see it in this state. It might just be time to bring it out back and put the 12 gauge to it's head.

[Yinnyth]

What you describe in your post is the beginner's dilemma, which has existed for a long time, and the gap only continues to grow wider and more daunting with each new addition to the game. Yes, SE could stop adding things to the game to stop the beginner's dilemma from getting worse, but that would be boring as hell for us, so they must keep adding things for us endgamers. Yes, SE could make it easier for newbs to catch up, and that's probably the best solution they have available to them.

But what you're prefacing your complaint with is:


The game pretty much became meh around the time that it was a requirement to have the weapons that take weeks and weeks to grind out. You can no longer just pick up, progress a bit and play.

So your real beef is not that it's hard to start off in FFXI, it is that you feel like you need one of the RMEDs, but you don't feel like you should have to put forth the effort in order to obtain one.

And what is your suggested fix then?


FFXI needs help. It's sad to see it in this state. It might just be time to bring it out back and put the 12 gauge to it's head.

Really? Nothing else can be done to fix FFXI in your eyes?

How about this then: delete SoA, and refund everyone's money. Would that bring you back?

[sc4500]

They made there money it did not fail to them. To us gamers yea it failed. We got ff14 on the way . Wish I would have just waited and got that instead it much more impressive.

[sc4500]

The game pretty much became meh around the time that it was a requirement to have the weapons that take weeks and weeks to grind out. You can no longer just pick up, progress a bit and play. For most players, trying to get a RMED to 90+ is a brick wall of frustration. Honestly now, it's just very boring to grind out a weapon. There's no uniqueness to them anymore anyway, considering most no-lifers and major players already have multiple bundles of them. Missed the ship for getting Delve farming? Tough luck. Good luck trying to get a bunch of people to help you in most cases if you aren't playing often.

Current way the game is played for the average new player is:
-Start the game, level up and screw around while having some fun.
-Get to about level 30 and realize that no one actually parties at all except in abyssea or huge alliance parties, so you got abyssea and stand around very bored, or opening boxes for a bunch of levels, or get bored of wandering around in gusgen mines or crawler's nest.
-Realize that a large portion of gear before AF3 is completely meaningless and a waste of time to get now except for Rajas Ring and a few others, so do all the missions... Solo or with a friend, if you made one by now
-Finally get all that done, leveled up your job to the cap, and realize that now all your skills are gimp.
-Skill up for hours and hours, boring yourself to death in the process
-All done skilling up? Okay, time to do some AF3 farming for some basic gear, so you can participate in well, anything remotely interesting. Oh wait, need a few people to do this for awhile. This'll take you a few days or weeks, depending on how lucky you are.
-Okay, you are all geared up with just your regular set and have an ass weapon. "I better get a Empy weapon, I hear that is easy." "I think I can grind out a relic in a month or two! No sweat!"
-Realize you picked the wrong job to even attempt doing this, switch your job to BST, NIN or WHM.
-Do the above steps again.
-Realize that getting an empy alone is impossible, so you ask your friends, most of whom are busy and say "lol it's easy just dual box it and get it yourself!"

At this point you can either
-Buy another account and level up a dual-boxed heal bot to help you farm your 85 kannagi, then following on that, get the actual weapon you want so it'll be a lot faster.
-Suck it up and try to get your friends to help you get your empy weapon by constantly annoying and begging them, even though they are sick of it.
-Go for the relic and waste a month or two in dynamis, doing the same thing over and over again, still being behind of course.
-Say screw it and try for Delve and hope you can just leech a good free weapon.
-Let's not forget, you'll need to do some voidwatch in here somewhere, so stand around in Jeuno for shouts for hours at a time to progress here, or start one yourself, same thing, time is sunk.

Remember, this is just to be at par with doing a decent amount of damage as a DD. If you are a main heal, it's pretty much easy mode, but not everyone likes standing there spamming cures on people.

Stan: I can't believe it's all over. What do we do now?
Cartman: What do you mean? Now we can finally play the game.

This quickly comes to mind. There comes a point in time to just walk away from something or someone you love. This is one of those times.

Wall of text aside, there's a reason why many players have left and not bothered coming back. Once you are behind in FFXI at this point, the simplest way to put it is you are SOL, because someone will in most cases have better gear and stuff than you, so you won't get picked until you have it... but if you don't get picked to do the events to get the gear- oh. Right.

/rant

FFXI needs help. It's sad to see it in this state. It might just be time to bring it out back and put the 12 gauge to it's head.

Best message I seen in along time so TRUE.

[Hayward]

What you describe in your post is the beginner's dilemma, which has existed for a long time, and the gap only continues to grow wider and more daunting with each new addition to the game. Yes, SE could stop adding things to the game to stop the beginner's dilemma from getting worse, but that would be boring as hell for us, so they must keep adding things for us endgamers. Yes, SE could make it easier for newbs to catch up, and that's probably the best solution they have available to them.

But what you're prefacing your complaint with is:



So your real beef is not that it's hard to start off in FFXI, it is that you feel like you need one of the RMEDs, but you don't feel like you should have to put forth the effort in order to obtain one.

And what is your suggested fix then?



Really? Nothing else can be done to fix FFXI in your eyes?

How about this then: delete SoA, and refund everyone's money. Would that bring you back?

You'd do well to climb down from your pedestal and realize that Relic, Empyrean, Mythic, and Delve weapons should NEVER have been allowed to drive the direction of endgame content. It's not about "putting forth the effort to obtain one" (read: giving up many months of one's life staring at a screen), it's about putting out content that doesn't allow for regular, Auction House/Crafted weapons/instruments/armor/jug pets to be remotely useful. That has never sat well with me or anyone else who doesn't have his/her head in the clouds, sand, or somewhere else.

You got yours? Good for you. Now how about allowing other people to have access to this content without having to sacrifice their jobs or college careers for those same bits of code?

[Yinnyth]

You'd do well to climb down from your pedestal and realize that Relic, Empyrean, Mythic, and Delve weapons should NEVER have been allowed to drive the direction of endgame content. It's not about "putting forth the effort to obtain one" (read: giving up many months of one's life staring at a screen), it's about putting out content that doesn't allow for regular, Auction House/Crafted weapons/instruments/armor/jug pets to be remotely useful. That has never sat well with me or anyone else who doesn't have his/her head in the clouds, sand, or somewhere else.

You got yours? Good for you. Now how about allowing other people to have access to this content without having to sacrifice their jobs or college careers for those same bits of code?

What's all this about delve gear taking months or your life to obtain?

[Radd]

What you describe in your post is the beginner's dilemma, which has existed for a long time, and the gap only continues to grow wider and more daunting with each new addition to the game. Yes, SE could stop adding things to the game to stop the beginner's dilemma from getting worse, but that would be boring as hell for us, so they must keep adding things for us endgamers. Yes, SE could make it easier for newbs to catch up, and that's probably the best solution they have available to them.

But what you're prefacing your complaint with is:



So your real beef is not that it's hard to start off in FFXI, it is that you feel like you need one of the RMEDs, but you don't feel like you should have to put forth the effort in order to obtain one.

And what is your suggested fix then?



Really? Nothing else can be done to fix FFXI in your eyes?

How about this then: delete SoA, and refund everyone's money. Would that bring you back?

You missed the point where the whole idea of "fun" doesn't start until the end game, with the RMED apparently. How many weeks of bullshit tediousness do you have to go through to actually have fun? Games like Rift, WoW and even FF14 now have at least a feel of progression, and you can have pretty good gear and a decent character in a moderate amount of time and guess what? Be useful. At all times. Having that unique top tier weapon in these games is just a nice edition, not mandatory, as how the relics used to be in FFXI a long time ago. Hell Delve weapons were honestly a slap in the face to a majority of the players as the team working on the game has no real direction on what to do with the game anymore, and it shows. The level jump from 75 to 99 in one year caused a huge problem with the game as well, but that's old news.

This isn't new player woes either, it's players that have came back or been playing for a long time. I just don't see the point of putting hundreds of hours into a weapon just to play the game normally, when there's many others just like it that can hold my attention. What can be done? Be realistic. Your suggestion is sarcastic and stupid.

They designed a system where it wasn't a pure gear grind, just to throw it out the window years later. There was a time where you could have auction house gear and still be able to play the game and enjoy yourself. Good luck trying to enjoy it when people that already have most of the new content stuff won't help the other players out who haven't had the opportunity to take a crack at it because you need x amount of players to even attempt it.

The game isn't hard. The game isn't fresh, and the game hasn't been fun for a lot of players for awhile. If you want the RMED weapons to drive how the game is played from now on, that's fine, but it's not really a good idea. The new "AH" weapons that were supposed to be up there with delve weapons only drop mats from delve bosses. I bet each weapon goes for about 100mil on most bazaars, which is basically a relic anyway.

[Yinnyth]

Your suggestion is sarcastic and stupid.

Where's your suggestion then? You have no trouble explaining why you don't enjoy something, I'll give you that. But how does FFXI get your loyalty back?

[FrankReynolds]

Cue the "You just want everything handed to you" chants and the Nonsense about how work ethics are somehow important in video games.

[Radd]

I cannot provide a solution, as they would not heed it anyway. Look at the forums, blaring with ideas, good ones, and they are never considered until years down the road. There's no point in trying to come up with a suggestion or a solution anymore, because someone out there actually likes the tediousness and painful game mechanics and would gladly take it and ask for more.

You can't even think of a logical one yourself, so what grounds do you have to even ask me that?

[Radd]

Cue the "You just want everything handed to you" chants and the Nonsense about how work ethics are somehow important in video games.

Pretty much what I'm expecting at this point. There's no winning with people like that because either they've done it already and want other people to suffer, or don't realize how much they are getting screwed over by flawed mechanics.

[Yinnyth]

I cannot provide a solution, as they would not heed it anyway. Look at the forums, blaring with ideas, good ones, and they are never considered until years down the road. There's no point in trying to come up with a suggestion or a solution anymore, because someone out there actually likes the tediousness and painful game mechanics and would gladly take it and ask for more.

You can't even think of a logical one yourself, so what grounds do you have to even ask me that?

Coming up with solutions to other people's problems is always difficult because even though you think you all have the same opinion of SoA and the direction FFXI is headed, it actually varies from person to person. I, for example, enjoy SoA and any of the changes I want would be abhorrent to you. The inverse is likely true as well.

I'm not really asking you to solve the complex problem of "how do you fix these problems while remaining in FFXI's budget and work load?" I'm asking you to consider what it would take for you to enjoy FFXI again. Go back to the days before SoA? Add AH gear that's just as good as delve gear, but it's crafted from cheaper materials like iron? In a perfect world, how does FFXI win you back and turn you into a raving fan of the game?

[Radd]

Coming up with solutions to other people's problems is always difficult because even though you think you all have the same opinion of SoA and the direction FFXI is headed, it actually varies from person to person. I, for example, enjoy SoA and any of the changes I want would be abhorrent to you. The inverse is likely true as well.

I'm not really asking you to solve the complex problem of "how do you fix these problems while remaining in FFXI's budget and work load?" I'm asking you to consider what it would take for you to enjoy FFXI again. Go back to the days before SoA? Add AH gear that's just as good as delve gear, but it's crafted from cheaper materials like iron? In a perfect world, how does FFXI win you back and turn you into a raving fan of the game?

I've already said. Stop making all the content focused around RMED being mandatory weapons. Why is this so hard to grasp? They should be unique tools and extra "punch" not required in all circumstances for every single thing.

[detlef]

So many players have RMES though. An even greater number of players have Delve weapons. The ship has sailed on that one.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

So many players have RMES though.

Even if "so many" were a meaningful amount (I'm not convinced they're much more than a noisy minority), this "Screw you, I got mine" approach does nothing for drawing in and keeping new players. As it stands, Square-Enix is at least pretending to want new players, or else they wouldn't be selling the Ultimate Collection to begin with*.

* Unless we're talking about Japanese Xbox 360 players, then yeah: they don't want new players.

[Radd]

So many players have RMES though. An even greater number of players have Delve weapons. The ship has sailed on that one.

It feels like I'm yelling at a brick. Do people really miss the point this much?

[Yinnyth]

I've already said. Stop making all the content focused around RMED being mandatory weapons. Why is this so hard to grasp? They should be unique tools and extra "punch" not required in all circumstances for every single thing.

I think this might be the disconnect we're having with one another. I don't see RMED as mandatory for anything except delve megabosses. They're nice to have, certainly, but I'm not going to demand that people have delve weapons to join my dynamis LS. I'm not going to demand a person have relic weapons for Morta. I wouldn't even demand RMED for farming little stuff in the fracture. Am I the exception to the rule? Do most people make these absurd demands?

[Radd]

I think this might be the disconnect we're having with one another. I don't see RMED as mandatory for anything except delve megabosses. They're nice to have, certainly, but I'm not going to demand that people have delve weapons to join my dynamis LS. I'm not going to demand a person have relic weapons for Morta. I wouldn't even demand RMED for farming little stuff in the fracture. Am I the exception to the rule? Do most people make these absurd demands?

You must be an exception to the rule, as you would want "gimp" players in your events making them take longer. Have you ever seen any shouts lately? You don't see it as mandatory because you are doing mostly old content. The new content however... On the side, the guys who scummed out Delve boss wins before they patched it and made them on short timers won't give two shits about the players who haven't done it yet.

[Yinnyth]

Might be a server thing too. Sure, there are people who make those demands, but the vast majority of events that happen on this server, no one shouts specifically for those. The exception to that is when people are attempting to do something difficult like a 5-NM kill run, but even then, it's only DDs who have delve weapons requested of them.

And I agree with you there, that's how it should be. Though I get the feeling that skirmish updates will help to bridge the gap between the haves and have-nots, as well as give players who missed the boat a chance to work their way up to delve.

[Radd]

Or they could have just had it the good ol Level 75 way and had it so AH gear was at least decent and on par with the top of the line stuff. Also make the mats easy to come by so they aren't all selling for the amount of a 75 relic weapon. Hagun ring any bells? How about Predu weapons? These were pretty easy to get, and you actually had fun doing stuff to get it, you know, like Assaults.

You might be lucky on your server. That's all this game has boiled down to as of late.

[Rekin]

You must be an exception to the rule, as you would want "gimp" players in your events making them take longer. Have you ever seen any shouts lately? You don't see it as mandatory because you are doing mostly old content. The new content however... On the side, the guys who scummed out Delve boss wins before they patched it and made them on short timers won't give two shits about the players who haven't done it yet.
My major beef with the game is that everything is such a chore that once you've jumped through the hoop you are loathe to do it again for others. This is the cause of why no one tries to make runs regularly to help newer players, that and with the flux of players unwilling to learn, etc. w/e excuse to undermine players with less time and devotion on their hands, and thus you have a large majority of players who are in limbo. Sure they could climb SE's gear ladder, but the satisfaction for getting gear that takes lots of time to obtain tend to demoralize those who aren't fervent about the game when its easily dismissed and ridiculed when trying to reach the next tier of content.

[Radd]

My major beef with the game is that everything is such a chore that once you've jumped through the hoop you are loathe to do it again for others. This is the cause of why no one tries to make runs regularly to help newer players, that and with the flux of players unwilling to learn, etc. w/e excuse to undermine players with less time and devotion on their hands, and thus you have a large majority of players who are in limbo. Sure they could climb SE's gear ladder, but the satisfaction for getting gear that takes lots of time to obtain tend to demoralize those who aren't fervent about the game when its easily dismissed and ridiculed when trying to reach the next tier of content.

Another point I forgot to get at. You nailed it. Thank you for this.

[Rekin]

I mean no one wants something on a silver platter for them but why even bother getting the lower content gear if it means NOTHING AT ALL to others when attempting to reach the next? Also lets address another t-rex in the room. Why keep older content which the devs have probably recognized at this point are rarely done.(inb4 someone's personal anecdotes) yet keep severe restrictions in place?

[Radd]

I mean no one wants something on a silver platter for them but why even bother getting the lower content gear if it means NOTHING AT ALL to others when attempting to reach the next? Also lets address another t-rex in the room. Why keep older content which the devs have probably recognized at this point are rarely done.(inb4 someone's personal anecdotes) yet keep severe restrictions in place?

Possibly because it wouldn't make the guys on top feel as special anymore that people can catch up to them so easily. :(

The "You just want it all with no effort" mindset is a joke. We want it and try at it, but to jump through a million hoops to get it, just for it to be outdated later, while the guys who already have it can grab the next tier easier because they already have it is ridiculous. There's no way to really catch up unless you push even harder than those who already have it. It makes the game feel like work and very boring.

[Yinnyth]

My major beef with the game is that everything is such a chore that once you've jumped through the hoop you are loathe to do it again for others. This is the cause of why no one tries to make runs regularly to help newer players, that and with the flux of players unwilling to learn, etc. w/e excuse to undermine players with less time and devotion on their hands, and thus you have a large majority of players who are in limbo. Sure they could climb SE's gear ladder, but the satisfaction for getting gear that takes lots of time to obtain tend to demoralize those who aren't fervent about the game when its easily dismissed and ridiculed when trying to reach the next tier of content.

I'm curious... pretend for a second you're completely abyssea-level on your gear. Full AF3+2, no empy weapon, but some level 99 magian weapons at your disposal. Would you rather:

1. have a group of 17 people who already have full delve boss gear roflstomp everything in delve for you so you get full delve gear as well, but are incapable of providing any help at all until you attain said gear.

2. find a group of people in the same boat as you and work together to more slowly upgrade gear (first skirmish, then start some delve runs and NM kills with a few pickup members to fill the gaps).


If you prefer number 1, perhaps I should consider convincing my friends to go back and help other players once we finally start managing boss kills reliably.

[Alerith]

I'm curious... pretend for a second you're completely abyssea-level on your gear. Full AF3+2, no empy weapon, but some level 99 magian weapons at your disposal. Would you rather:

1. have a group of 17 people who already have full delve boss gear roflstomp everything in delve for you so you get full delve gear as well, but are incapable of providing any help at all until you attain said gear.

2. find a group of people in the same boat as you and work together to more slowly upgrade gear (first skirmish, then start some delve runs and NM kills with a few pickup members to fill the gaps).


If you prefer number 1, perhaps I should consider convincing my friends to go back and help other players once we finally start managing boss kills reliably.

The answer is certainly up to the individual, but I would be willing to bet my last Gil that a majority of people, if not under scrutinizing eyes who would judge them instantly, would pick option number one.

[Rekin]

I'm curious... pretend for a second you're completely abyssea-level on your gear. Full AF3+2, no empy weapon, but some level 99 magian weapons at your disposal. Would you rather:

1. have a group of 17 people who already have full delve boss gear roflstomp everything in delve for you so you get full delve gear as well, but are incapable of providing any help at all until you attain said gear.

2. find a group of people in the same boat as you and work together to more slowly upgrade gear (first skirmish, then start some delve runs and NM kills with a few pickup members to fill the gaps).


If you prefer number 1, perhaps I should consider convincing my friends to go back and help other players once we finally start managing boss kills reliably.

Is this a real question? I'll answer that with another. If you and your ls have ample time on your hands and have come across a reasonably geared individual with a high level of knowledge of the game and its mechanics yet lack the means to get to your level, would you assist this individual if it meant going through frustrating to boring at best fights? How about if you don't have your ls on hand and its just you and that guy?

[Riggs]

there is no way se is about to introduce delve type equipment on to the ah, they made this super gear to force people in to buying an expansion that was about 15% complete, if they allowed it on the ah then many people would not have bought it

[detlef]

It feels like I'm yelling at a brick. Do people really miss the point this much?The point is, if RMED weapons become common enough, they are the new status quo. If they are so common that Delve PT leaders can afford to be picky about who they invite, then your beef about them being "unique tools" that "provide extra punch" is no longer valid.

[Radd]

The point is, if RMED weapons become common enough, they are the new status quo. If they are so common that Delve PT leaders can afford to be picky about who they invite, then your beef about them being "unique tools" that "provide extra punch" is no longer valid.

So again, it comes back to what I posted the first time. They become a requirement, and are a long tedious grind to get just to play the game normally. Good. Now that player will just stop wasting his time and move on to something else while the community stagnates in it's own circle jerk and SE loses another customer.

They aren't supposed to be common, there are only so many these days because people have been playing this game non stop for years. Are you telling me that a person without one should play for years just to even have the chance to catch up to today's content, which will be outdated by the time they catch up and they have to do it some more? Do you get it now?

[Radd]

there is no way se is about to introduce delve type equipment on to the ah, they made this super gear to force people in to buying an expansion that was about 15% complete, if they allowed it on the ah then many people would not have bought it

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Senbaak_Nagan Example. Only way to get this gear is to get some of the items off the delve nms. This is AHable, but guess what? You won't see these for a long time. Oh, people are bazaaring these for around 50 mil on average. Good luck!

It was a swindle on SE's part, but hey. It worked.

[detlef]

So again, it comes back to what I posted the first time. They become a requirement, and are a long tedious grind to get just to play the game normally. Good. Now that player will just stop wasting his time and move on to something else while the community stagnates in it's own circle jerk and SE loses another customer.

They aren't supposed to be common, there are only so many these days because people have been playing this game non stop for years. Are you telling me that a person without one should play for years just to even have the chance to catch up to today's content, which will be outdated by the time they catch up and they have to do it some more? Do you get it now?They are probably not supposed to be common, but you were around for Abyssea, Dynamis revamp, and Salvage revamp right? SE has introduced content that centered around building these weapons. And now a lot of people have them. You can argue about whether PT standards all you want, but the fact remains that enough people have RMED weapons that you can fill your Plasm farming DD spots with a single shout. I have not argued that it's right, but that's how it is right now.

Also, you don't have to play for years. You need an NM kill and 30k plasm and you're caught up, weapon-wise. You may not get in as a DD while you're first farming plasm, but that's because there are so many other players who are better geared than you. If you have a problem leveling and playing a support job in order to gear your DD job then this may not be the game for you.

[Asymptotic]

My entire linkshell is having a blast going after Delve bosses.

[PeaceWalker]

This is what they wanted all along, right? To get people out of XI and into XIV.
Too bad they're so out of touch that they don't realize that XI players don't want XIV.
Good job, SE.

[Alerith]

This is what they wanted all along, right? To get people out of XI and into XIV.
Too bad they're so out of touch that they don't realize that XI players don't want XIV.
Good job, SE.

I don't recall you being made the official spokesperson for all XI players. But to each their own opinion.

[Demon6324236]

I don't recall you being made the official spokesperson for all XI players. But to each their own opinion.Agreed, I am very interested in FFXIV, as are many others.

[Radd]

They are probably not supposed to be common, but you were around for Abyssea, Dynamis revamp, and Salvage revamp right? SE has introduced content that centered around building these weapons. And now a lot of people have them. You can argue about whether PT standards all you want, but the fact remains that enough people have RMED weapons that you can fill your Plasm farming DD spots with a single shout. I have not argued that it's right, but that's how it is right now.

Also, you don't have to play for years. You need an NM kill and 30k plasm and you're caught up, weapon-wise. You may not get in as a DD while you're first farming plasm, but that's because there are so many other players who are better geared than you. If you have a problem leveling and playing a support job in order to gear your DD job then this may not be the game for you.

This mindset is the reason most of my friends quit.

First off, the content should have never been designed specificially for these weapons alone. We've been over this. Working on it should have been an a-side thing, not the major core game aspect. It's a goal over time, not a mandatory factor.

Secondly, enough people have them? Good for them. What about the people that don't? You haven't solved this problem, yet you are still defending the "I got mine so deal with it." mindset.

Third. Leveling a job you never had an intention to play, just to play the game? Sodd right off with that right now. Seriously. Leveling other jobs has always been optional as well, not mandatory. Now I have to level a WHM to get my great axe weapon for my warrior? What sense does this make? I already went over this point in my first post.

Fourth. This game was the game for me, but I see that it's not anymore because of people backing up ludicrous ideas. I hated HNMs back in the day, but guess what? I still respected the people that did them, and wanted to eventually get that gear. But there was alternates to catch up with. Now? It's just a straight line in tiers. I get my delve weapon by leveling a support class, now what? My other gear in this case would still be all gimpy because I couldn't get into invites for other events because I didn't have a RMED at the time. Time to back-track.

It's fine though, the dwindling numbers are speaking for themselves.

[Draylo]

It was the same for HNM days... There was always a need to level support if your DD was shit, or else you were carried by a good group. You make me laugh, go quit for XIV and have to do the same shit there when your gear sucks because your mentality in these games is me me me.

[Radd]

It was the same for HNM days... There was always a need to level support if your DD was shit, or else you were carried by a good group. You make me laugh, go quit for XIV and have to do the same shit there when your gear sucks because your mentality in these games is me me me.

So glad you read the post properly and completely missed what I said. Good job.

[FrankReynolds]

The point is, if RMED weapons become common enough, they are the new status quo. If they are so common that Delve PT leaders can afford to be picky about who they invite, then your beef about them being "unique tools" that "provide extra punch" is no longer valid.

It's fine if they become the status quo. As long as the AH / easily obtainable options aren't light years behind them like they are now.

They have grossly misunderstood the mentality of the player base. People were already excluding "Gimps" back when they killed things 10% slower than pimped out players. Now they just flat out can't kill it.

[Draylo]

Sorry, I don't know any MMO where everyone can go meathead DD to an event and win the hardest content. You always need a healer and things like that. Someone has to play that role, and the majority dislike doing it. So yes, you have to play things you dislike sometimes to get what you want.

[Radd]

Sorry, I don't know any MMO where everyone can go meathead DD to an event and win the hardest content. You always need a healer and things like that. Someone has to play that role, and the majority dislike doing it. So yes, you have to play things you dislike sometimes to get what you want.

Name a few. Most MMOs these days have classes that can spec into 2 of the 3 in the holy trifecta. You always need a healer. Okay, so what? Other people that have it leveled, and properly geared will always be the better pick than your undergeared healing "I had to level this because" job. Why wouldn't I want to play the job I invested the most time into?

By the way, I find FF14 to be meh so far. I'd rather not bother unless I was coaxed into it or someone bought/paid for it for me.

[Draylo]

So your excuse is that other people should always be forced onto a job so you can go meathead DD which sucks compared to most? COR or GEO aren't hard to gear or use, it isn't asking much for someone to play those jobs to gear up their DD so it can be actually useful and not carried. If you invested "so much time" then it should be good enough to compete as a DD in current content.

[Radd]

So your excuse is that other people should always be forced onto a job so you can go meathead DD which sucks compared to most? COR or GEO aren't hard to gear or use, it isn't asking much for someone to play those jobs to gear up their DD so it can be actually useful and not carried. If you invested "so much time" then it should be good enough to compete as a DD in current content.

Funny how you think I'm referring to just myself in this situation, when I'm trying to base this on the whole of the game. Get your head out of your ass.

Regardless, why should players have to level these jobs, when they already started and worked on others they wanted too? What about the players that have leveled stuff like Paladin? Where do they fit into all this if they don't have shit like Ochain or Aegis?

[detlef]

The job you want to play is not always going to be the one that gets the job done. This has been true for over a decade. The difference is that unlike way back when, leveling additional jobs and gearing them to an acceptable baseline is a straightforward process that doesn't take months. Leveling additional jobs to help you gear your favorite job is something that people have been doing since Sky days.

What if you want to play WAR and your friend also wants to play WAR? If you want to accomplish something, one of you is going to have to compromise.

[Draylo]

Those players were not serious about Paladin then. It was already stated that Delve was meant for the top tier of players, they are adding content for casual players who refuse to devote time into jobs they "main". I fail to see how this only pertains to FFXI, in what MMO do they let subpar players tank the hardest bosses?

[detlef]

It's fine if they become the status quo. As long as the AH / easily obtainable options aren't light years behind them like they are now.

They have grossly misunderstood the mentality of the player base. People were already excluding "Gimps" back when they killed things 10% slower than pimped out players. Now they just flat out can't kill it.At the same time, if they made Bayld weapons (as an example) as good as RMEs, people would riot. I do not envy SE, as they are caught between a rock and hard place.

[Radd]

Those players were not serious about Paladin then. It was already stated that Delve was meant for the top tier of players, they are adding content for casual players who refuse to devote time into jobs they "main". I fail to see how this only pertains to FFXI, in what MMO do they let subpar players tank the hardest bosses?

Here's one. WoW. Looking for Raid. Lets you tank/fight/heal against bosses and learn their moves, as well as get some decent gear off them. After which you can attempt in 10 or 25 man raids for the actual high level tier pieces, and these are progressively harder. It's better than nothing.

Also, if Delve was supposed to be for the top players, that means you are again telling me that RME is a requirement, making me go in circles. Enough.

[Radd]

The job you want to play is not always going to be the one that gets the job done. This has been true for over a decade. The difference is that unlike way back when, leveling additional jobs and gearing them to an acceptable baseline is a straightforward process that doesn't take months. Leveling additional jobs to help you gear your favorite job is something that people have been doing since Sky days.

What if you want to play WAR and your friend also wants to play WAR? If you want to accomplish something, one of you is going to have to compromise.

In most cases, I asked my friends what they would like to main before we seriously tried at anything, and we always had a nice balanced group. No one was on the same job unless it was an absolute requirement. Most of us had 3-4 jobs leveled anyway, but we put those who were the best at their specific jobs, on that job.

SE's caught themselves in a rock in a hard place by raising the damage values so high up without a real specific reason other than "because" from what I can tell.

[detlef]

The highest tier of Delve is absolutely for higher tier players and RMED is a requirement if you're on a DD job.

For lower tiers, you do not require RMED to win, but you can easily get all the RMED DDs you want off the street with minimal effort.

[Draylo]

Here's one. WoW. Looking for Raid. Lets you tank/fight/heal against bosses and learn their moves, as well as get some decent gear off them. After which you can attempt in 10 or 25 man raids for the actual high level tier pieces, and these are progressively harder. It's better than nothing.

Also, if Delve was supposed to be for the top players, that means you are again telling me that RME is a requirement, making me go in circles. Enough.

FFXI has the same thing with Wildskeeper Reives. You fight a lesser version of Delve mega boss, and get gear off them. Then you can attempt the next level content to prepare for the final content which is the delve mega boss... RME isn't a requirement for plasm farming, but the Skirmish weapon is a start (which isn't hard to get or do.)

[Xantavia]

It feels that there is no longer such a thing as a 2nd best (or acceptable) weapon anymore. It didn't seem that long ago that if somebody didn't have an r/m/e, having certain magian weapons was still viable. Sure, I may not have had an almace, but I do have a str shikagar that can get the job done. With delve, we lost this option so if you don't have the best, you may as well not have anything at all.

Now that I think about it and regarding posts I've seen about people not eating food, I wonder if I could join a plasm farming party by offering to bring either drg or pld/blu/rdm and wield the evasion down weapons I made just for @#$% and giggles. My dmg won't be good but it might help others actually connect their hits. :D

[FrankReynolds]

At the same time, if they made Bayld weapons (as an example) as good as RMEs, people would riot. I do not envy SE, as they are caught between a rock and hard place.

Why? They could have made RME's slightly better. They could have made content that didn't require the absolute best to beat as well. It's fine for amazing players to beat things at an amazing pace. It's not fine for them to be the only ones who can do it at all.

Nobody likes paying for a game that they can't enjoy as much as the next guy.

[Miiyo]

There are things I don't like about Adoulin and it's distribution, but it is all due to bad presentation. Matsui clearly said this expansion is gear towards those who have cleared previous content. This would've gotten across better if it would've been written on the box, on the log in screen, if people's moogles would say it to them, and maybe have the intro Cut scenes mention "it's a bit rough here, I hope you've at least visited 'insert content name here.'". Here are some things that would've made this expansion work a bit better.

1. Explain first.
2. Build upon, do not kill off.
3. Expand.

For point number 1, alot of anguish would've never existed if they would've given this sort of roadmap that they have, at the beginning. I know that ruins the surprise or whatever, but at this point in the game, after that stale year we had with vw and the updates to old content, it seems like a necessity to me. Instead they release things with very little info when alot of people are RELYING on the success of this expansion to determine their future... or lack thereof, with FFXI.

2. Build upon, do not kill off. Delve has become literally a black hole where are all your time and progress are void and null as this gear completely renders most everything else, useless. Some will like this, but they should know better and know that nostalgia is too big a part of the game for that thinking to be successful. Square Enix caused the mandatory need for upgrading mythics and relics by upgrading them when level 75 cap was released. Once you do it, you can't stop. It is then no longer level 75 content. It is then, "i worked hard for this and it deserves infinite updates to match content."

3. Expand. I liked the expansion at the beginning. Delve came and related very little to colonization and rendered skirmish pointless and reive are done at 20% of the frequency as the were prior to delve. The worst part is that they don't seem to even see that and aren't even making any changes to it. Anyroad, the game expanded for me by giving me multiple things to do until delve. Now they have plans to "bring back reive and skirmish" by adding more content to them. If you would've stated this from the beginning, maybe it would've been received better and sought after more. Reive and skirmish should've never been killed off by a single event so soon.

[detlef]

Why? They could have made RME's slightly better. They could have made content that didn't require the absolute best to beat as well. It's fine for amazing players to beat things at an amazing pace. It's not fine for them to be the only ones who can do it at all.

Nobody likes paying for a game that they can't enjoy as much as the next guy.I was saying if they added easy to get weapons that were as good, people would be upset. I agree that if easily-acquired weapons that were slightly but clearly worse than RME options were introduced, most players would be fine with that.

[Mahoro]

70 k plasm is basically 7M per character per run. There are 18 players splitting the airlixir +2 and the horn that dropped so it doesn't greatly enhance the reward on a per character basis. So if you go purely for money, you do like 8M in a successful run of 45 minutes. Sure it's about comparable theoritically to marrows in a 6 man group. There are several issues though

- 18 man event with an experienced LS. In FFXI, no LS has ever been able to successfully gather 18+ ppl for several days or weeks. You can act as if it's as easy as triboxing ADLs, it's not.


The bolded part and your similar follow-up comments are not true in the slightest, as could be demonstrated from even a casual perusal of forums devoted to the game. They weren't true ten years ago and they are certainly not true today.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

So your excuse is that other people should always be forced onto a job so you can go meathead DD which sucks compared to most?

... he said to the PLD.

[Yinnyth]

Is this a real question? I'll answer that with another. If you and your ls have ample time on your hands and have come across a reasonably geared individual with a high level of knowledge of the game and its mechanics yet lack the means to get to your level, would you assist this individual if it meant going through frustrating to boring at best fights? How about if you don't have your ls on hand and its just you and that guy?

Yes, it's a real question, because I hate being carried and not being any help at all. I feel as though I have accomplished nothing when that happens, so if someone offered me that, I would turn them down, which is why I found it remarkable when I read complaints that the people who already have theirs aren't willing to come back and help other people catch up.

Yes, I would assist that individual, and I have done so many times. And I think you misjudge how large my LS is. We have a bunch of dual/triboxers in the LS, so we sorta make up for our small numbers, but it's a moot point. I've helped on LB10 about 6 times now when there was nothing in it for me. I've killed promathia so many times I've lost count. I do NNI with strangers even though I have all my gear. I'm willing to help an underdog catch up, though I will admit I still have many goals for myself and I'm not going to spend ALL my time helping others.

So yes, if delve bosses ever become easy for us, we'll probably start allowing undergeared people to tag along as long as they don't muck it up somehow. At the very least, we'd be forming 5 NM kill runs and should be strong enough to carry some newer guys along with us. For the time being though, 5 NM kills are still a bit rough for us, and we still have the boss to worry about after that.

[Rekin]

Yes, it's a real question, because I hate being carried and not being any help at all. I feel as though I have accomplished nothing when that happens, so if someone offered me that, I would turn them down, which is why I found it remarkable when I read complaints that the people who already have theirs aren't willing to come back and help other people catch up.

Yes, I would assist that individual, and I have done so many times. And I think you misjudge how large my LS is. We have a bunch of dual/triboxers in the LS, so we sorta make up for our small numbers, but it's a moot point. I've helped on LB10 about 6 times now when there was nothing in it for me. I've killed promathia so many times I've lost count. I do NNI with strangers even though I have all my gear. I'm willing to help an underdog catch up, though I will admit I still have many goals for myself and I'm not going to spend ALL my time helping others.

So yes, if delve bosses ever become easy for us, we'll probably start allowing undergeared people to tag along as long as they don't muck it up somehow. At the very least, we'd be forming 5 NM kill runs and should be strong enough to carry some newer guys along with us. For the time being though, 5 NM kills are still a bit rough for us, and we still have the boss to worry about after that.

First, that is why when I play monster hunter with people I wear gear for their level. It completes the experience.

Of those things you listed most were low stress, quick events which you would spend more time traveling than fighting. What I am addressing is when you have to bring the person and X number of people required to actually do Y thing which can go between 1hr to 5hrs only to discover that someone is unprepared for the fight and you now have to spend even more time to get another person only to have another core job leave due to time and all your friends/ls mates are unavailable to aid you. Lets also pretend you and the person cannot dual box. Plenty stressful no? This is exactly why people are unwilling to help others go through the hoops. And never mind if the fight/event is boring. What I am getting at is that content needs to be changed to be entertaining for those w/o all your wonderful resources.

inb4. "man up, rage quit, make your own groups, make new friends".

[Yinnyth]

First, that is why when I play monster hunter with people I wear gear for their level. It completes the experience.

Of those things you listed most were low stress, quick events which you would spend more time traveling than fighting. What I am addressing is when you have to bring the person and X number of people required to actually do Y thing which can go between 1hr to 5hrs only to discover that someone is unprepared for the fight and you now have to spend even more time to get another person only to have another core job leave due to time and all your friends/ls mates are unavailable to aid you. Lets also pretend you and the person cannot dual box. Plenty stressful no? This is exactly why people are unwilling to help others go through the hoops. And never mind if the fight/event is boring. What I am getting at is that content needs to be changed to be entertaining for those w/o all your wonderful resources.

inb4. "man up, rage quit, make your own groups, make new friends".

NNI is a 30 minute, high stress event, or it used to be before the changes, and I capped my gear well before the changes and liked it so much that yes, I helped other people as well. 45 minute delve plasm farm is much lower stress. Are you asking would I FORM a delve group when I no longer need anything from delve just because I think someone else needs it? No. But I would join it. Just like I join VW shouts when I don't need anything from them, just because I have nothing else going on, and I feel like helping some guys out.

I'm not going to form a group which may or may not be of use to someone, but I will join one when I know it's of use to someone, and I will give it my all.

[Radd]

NNI is a 30 minute, high stress event, or it used to be before the changes, and I capped my gear well before the changes and liked it so much that yes, I helped other people as well. 45 minute delve plasm farm is much lower stress. Are you asking would I FORM a delve group when I no longer need anything from delve just because I think someone else needs it? No. But I would join it. Just like I join VW shouts when I don't need anything from them, just because I have nothing else going on, and I feel like helping some guys out.

I'm not going to form a group which may or may not be of use to someone, but I will join one when I know it's of use to someone, and I will give it my all.

NNI is a luck based chore. You could be aces up and get crap jumps, or you could mess up a few times and get to the final floor just to run out of time.

Even still, that is just YOU out of many players who would decide to help the masses out. You are a rare commodity. In most cases, most people wouldn't give two cents about anyone else in the game.

[Radd]

FFXI has the same thing with Wildskeeper Reives. You fight a lesser version of Delve mega boss, and get gear off them. Then you can attempt the next level content to prepare for the final content which is the delve mega boss... RME isn't a requirement for plasm farming, but the Skirmish weapon is a start (which isn't hard to get or do.)

This was good, in theory, but they pretty much nullified the need to do it with the release of Delve. There's no progress, it's actually such a huge jump that doing skirmish really is a waste of time, considering the items needed to be collected and the luck on drops. Why bother doing that X amount of times when you could just get lucky on a KI, go delve farm (on not my main job, as you would want me too, which is a complete deterrent why anyone would play the game in the first place, or just leech if I have a super cool friend who won't give a crap,) and get a delve weapon.

If every event could be 6 manned, and have actual tiered gear or gear based on the event's numbers, (3 man T1, 6 man T2, 12 man T3, 18 man T4) It would have been a way better system and you could progress upwards way easier.

Bayld content is mostly garbage and WS pieces. Anyone full timing in that is just as silly as the people that would full time in Perle or Teal gear.


... he said to the PLD.

This made me laugh as well.

[Rekin]

NNI is a 30 minute, high stress event, or it used to be before the changes, and I capped my gear well before the changes and liked it so much that yes, I helped other people as well. 45 minute delve plasm farm is much lower stress. Are you asking would I FORM a delve group when I no longer need anything from delve just because I think someone else needs it? No. But I would join it. Just like I join VW shouts when I don't need anything from them, just because I have nothing else going on, and I feel like helping some guys out.

I'm not going to form a group which may or may not be of use to someone, but I will join one when I know it's of use to someone, and I will give it my all.

See that is what I already do, but as a whole does not address the issue that plagues the majority of the player base. The lack of motivation to do the middle content, why? because its pointless and in the face of the pugs no one gives a crap if your running around with NNI/Salvage 2.0/skirmish if you lack a delve weapon. Oh and lets not forget the career mage players who aren't WHM have little reason to be excited over anything... even then WHMs have maybe 1 piece of notable gear in delve?(not counting club)

But returning to my main point, the reason why the majority of players don't wanna go back through the hoops is mainly because the hoops are covered in rusty barbs that are on fire and have some old lady with a megaphone screaming into your face the entire time. Sure its easy riding along with it but to be honest whilst you wait for the others do get ready chances are you aren't even looking at your screen until people are about ready to do the fight. In the past week I spent most of my time playing on my DS whilst waiting for people to gather or prep for fights in the few hours I was logged on.

[MarkovChain]

Something the QQer of the thread did not understand is that it's nearly impossible to play the game without dualboxing. I mean even in abyssea time, it was basically needed to get an empy. Adoulin is even worse because you cannot physically cross a zone solo, let alone defeat a NM solo. Sure you will always find someone explaining you to suck less and get a LS. You can't even find any decent LS doing exclusively delve atm so I doubt anyone would find a LS helping you RME. Once you understand this you can probably keep playing. Other wise your game experience will be harsh.

[Damane]

Something the QQer of the thread did not understand is that it's nearly impossible to play the game without dualboxing. I mean even in abyssea time, it was basically needed to get an empy. Adoulin is even worse because you cannot physically cross a zone solo, let alone defeat a NM solo. Sure you will always find someone explaining you to suck less and get a LS. You can't even find any decent LS doing exclusively delve atm so I doubt anyone would find a LS helping you RME. Once you understand this you can probably keep playing. Other wise your game experience will be harsh.

there are enough decent LSs out there that do Delve on almost a daily bases with megaboss kill. The real problem is none of those LSs would accept you!

The fundamental problem why some people struggle to do LSs is because the "Me me me" mentality alot of people have.

[Babygyrl]

Something the QQer of the thread did not understand is that it's nearly impossible to play the game without dualboxing. I mean even in abyssea time, it was basically needed to get an empy. Adoulin is even worse because you cannot physically cross a zone solo, let alone defeat a NM solo. Sure you will always find someone explaining you to suck less and get a LS. You can't even find any decent LS doing exclusively delve atm so I doubt anyone would find a LS helping you RME. Once you understand this you can probably keep playing. Other wise your game experience will be harsh.

Isnt the entire point of an MMO to play with other people!? everything should NOT be soloable.. if you cant make friends and need to duelbox instead thats on you..

[FrankReynolds]

Isnt the entire point of an MMO to play with other people!? everything should NOT be soloable.. if you cant make friends and need to duelbox instead thats on you..

Playing with other people doesn't necessarily have to mean 18 other people from the same server for 1 - ? hours uninterrupted. It can mean playing with 3 other people or 5 or just trading goods or cooperating on things like reives or crafting etc.

[Alerith]

Playing with other people doesn't necessarily have to mean 18 other people from the same server for 1 - ? hours uninterrupted. It can mean playing with 3 other people or 5 or just trading goods or cooperating on things like reives or crafting etc.

Indeed.

In fact, I think it's safe to say it's up to the player on an individual level to decide how much depth they want their multiplayer experience to have.

[Karah]

Playing with other people doesn't necessarily have to mean 18 other people from the same server for 1 - ? hours uninterrupted. It can mean playing with 3 other people or 5 or just trading goods or cooperating on things like reives or crafting etc.

Absolute truth. People get way to literal over the initials MMO. Multiplayer means more than 1, multiple. Not 18. Not 36. Just 2.

You can "interact" with whoever you want, millions of people in fact. But being required is just blah. I personally can't find 17 other humans I even tolerate on the planet, let alone in a realm of a couple thousand. I can bite my tongue and play along sure, but it's loosing its charm.

[Merton9999]

Playing with other people doesn't necessarily have to mean 18 other people from the same server for 1 - ? hours uninterrupted. It can mean playing with 3 other people or 5 or just trading goods or cooperating on things like reives or crafting etc.

This needs to be quoted again for truth. I LOVE the concept of an MMO just because it allows me to play a fantasy game with 3 friends who live hundreds of miles from me. Nothing about "multi-player" suggests that should always mean large group requirements.

The only thing I see in the update that sounds small-group friendly is changes to Revies, which were only fun for about a week to begin with :( I can't convince anyone to remain on XI when our only option in new content is bug patrol.

[Demon6324236]

The only thing I see in the update that sounds small-group friendly is changes to ReviesMissions, Quests, Mog Gardens, Coalition assignments, new areas to explore, Monstrosity, Skirmish, and lastly yes, Reives. I saw quite a few things in there myself. In the end, still not what matters most, broken things are still broken, Delve is still to many people with no announced low-man version, they said they are working on it, but no release. Which to me means its coming to late to matter to anyone interested probably because FFXIV, or simply people not willing to wait on the game to be worth playing anymore.

[Tamoa]

I think one thing SE's failing to realize here, is how the game changed after they raised the level cap. Back at 75 cap, very few things could be lowmanned. Then abyssea was released along with the level cap being lifted, and once we learned the ins and outs of abyssea, we also learned that lowmanning was the way to go for efficiency. Along with abyssea, there were also being made changes to older events, which allowed us to lowman or even solo those aswell. All this contributed to the death of the typical large endgame linkshells as we knew them.

Then SE gave us Legion, which was not possible to lowman. And we all know how successful that event turned out to be. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Legion myself and was lucky enough to be a part of a group of players which were highly successful at the event. But overall there weren't that many linkshells across servers that were able to do Legion successfully. In addition to requiring a larger number of participants, it was also a reasonably difficult event, in the sense that it required cooperation, players needed to focus, and they needed adequate gear (for example stun sets). This would be the reason why Legion shout groups failed, at least in my opinion.

And now they've added Delve, another 18-man event (talking about the boss fights incase someone wants to argue how certain nms can be lowmanned). And again we're seeing the same thing as with Legion - few linkshells are successful.

The player base has also been dwindling, making it even harder to find competent players to do non-lowmannable events with.

Those who know me, will probably call me hardcore, and those who think they know me will probably call me elitist. Actually, some of those who know me will probably call me elitist too. But believe me or not, I'm not liking this at all - "this" being how Adoulin and Delve seem to create an even bigger gap between the haves and the have-nots in this game.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

All this contributed to the death of the typical large endgame linkshells as we knew them.

Good riddance.

There are people who like being in such linkshells, and people who are in such linkshells because they must. Adding more content that didn't require marshaling such large groups let us see who fell into what category. It turns out that hardly anybody actually liked such set-ups.

[Tamoa]

Not disagreeing with you at all. What I meant to point out was by going from large endgame type linkshells (including linkshells for specific events only, like dynamis/Einherjar/Limbus) to linkshells consisting of way fewer members because nothing really required more than 6 people tops, didn't exactly help Legion becoming a more popular event. But you could still get by just fine without doing Legion, there were plenty of other activities to choose from.

And now there's Delve, which also requires more people. And if you miss the boat now, it'll only become increasingly difficult to catch up and worst case scenario you'll find yourself left further and further behind - at least that's what I predict when I read the posts regarding future updates.

[Taint2]

Not disagreeing with you at all. What I meant to point out was by going from large endgame type linkshells (including linkshells for specific events only, like dynamis/Einherjar/Limbus) to linkshells consisting of way fewer members because nothing really required more than 6 people tops, didn't exactly help Legion becoming a more popular event. But you could still get by just fine without doing Legion, there were plenty of other activities to choose from.

And now there's Delve, which also requires more people. And if you miss the boat now, it'll only become increasingly difficult to catch up and worst case scenario you'll find yourself left further and further behind - at least that's what I predict when I read the posts regarding future updates.


SE already said they will tone down difficulty as time goes on. What requires 18 today will be 6-12 mannable down the road. If you want the cutting edge gear you'll need a well organized 18 man alliance, that won't change.

[Tamoa]

I'm aware they've said they'll adjust the difficulty. And to be honest, that doesn't sit well with me either - why make events that require 18 well-organized and well-geared people, only to spend time to adjust that down the road - on purpose, no less? With the very limited resources given to FFXI by SE these days, why do this? It makes no sense to me. Oh well.

[Alpheus]

I would imagine the difficulty acts as a stall for time since they're apparently playing catch up with the content they're putting out.

So the people who are able to clear the content atm get to feel special and I mean that in a cigarette after a good romp between the sheets kinda way not as a snide way. While the Dev Team gets their time needed to put even more difficult things out so that way they can nerf what was already difficult.

[MarkovChain]

Not disagreeing with you at all. What I meant to point out was by going from large endgame type linkshells (including linkshells for specific events only, like dynamis/Einherjar/Limbus) to linkshells consisting of way fewer members because nothing really required more than 6 people tops, didn't exactly help Legion becoming a more popular event. But you could still get by just fine without doing Legion, there were plenty of other activities to choose from.

And now there's Delve, which also requires more people. And if you miss the boat now, it'll only become increasingly difficult to catch up and worst case scenario you'll find yourself left further and further behind - at least that's what I predict when I read the posts regarding future updates.

First I'm pretty sure all the census results have always showed that most linkshells had less than 9-10 players. FFXI has never worked the way plenty of BG rejects think it works : large linkshells have never existed. Sure here and there you had a few LS that didn't plenty of things like sky hnms dynamis, but in reality thoses were not necessarely the best geared players. I clearly remember when I first did sky in 2005 or 6 seeing goups of 5 or 6 JP farming sky pops and gods. Most of the engame players have been using different LSs for different events because the cockblock is too big when you try to do everything. I know at one point I had dynamis, einherjar and limbus shells going twice a week, a salvage shell going 4x a week etc. All with different leaders and rules.

Secondly you say it's going to be hard for people not in delve atm but really it's not the case, and that's precisely one of the reasons I made the thread. I mean we all now delve weapons (upgradable ones, craftables ones, or boss ones) are going to be trashed by relic+empy ws combo or empy+relic ws combo. The only thing you may be missing is a couple of plasm gear but really, they KI is not a cockblock.

@damane : No the reason I'm no part of LS doing bosses is not because "none wants" me. I've done einherjar boss a good 30 times back when it was the thing to do. If SE did not already annouce that RME would trash delve weapons I'm sure I would have been into it. But like many hardcore I gave up because there is no point to it, especially I've seen what they did to skirmish (I invested litterally hunderd of millions in pop items lol). Back when NA could not get a single salvage drop on BG me and mdk were joining JP pugs/lses doing all NMs+ boss in salvage or odin runs so it would be fairly easy to get a drop. I just don't see the point to invest so much time in it when :
- getting 70k plasm per run is useless when you are 3 months after the adoulin-VU and all your gear should be upgraded already (if not you may ask yourself if you are really efficient at delve)
- RME going back on top which is especiallly interesting for me due to my sig.
- Holidays and FFXIV both are coming so noone will play the game at least for the next 6 months

[Tamoa]

While I wish it to be true that R/E/Ms will be equal/superior to Delve weapons, and stay that way, I don't think that will be the case. Maybe you missed this post Pchan:


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34679-Item-Levels?p=448309&viewfull=1#post448309

in particular this part:


Why not increase the level cap?
To be extremely frank, increasing the level cap was never an option.

So then what were our options?

Below are the two plans:


Expand equipment variation laterally
This would be preserving the original style of the game up until now.
Keeping relics, mythics, and empyreans at the top, add gear that can be used depending on the situation without creating higher tiers of equipment. No changes to the level 99 cap.


Boost equipment variation vertically
This is the current plan.
Add equipment that surpasses relics, mythics, and empyrean. Player level cap of 99 remains unchanged, but growth takes place via equipment.


Edit: that post is from yesterday by the way, and going by that they are planning to add equipment that surpasses R/E/Ms even after they get their update. :/

[Gwynplaine]

Just to be perfectly clear for the poor employees who have to read this dreck, this topic is an ironic troll thread. Seekers is great and way better than the recycled mediocrity that was rolled out in the past 2 years or so stretching from Crystalline Prophecy through Voidwatch.

Death to the "Balance" years and onward to "Comensurate" rewards.

[Mahoro]

I think one thing SE's failing to realize here, is how the game changed after they raised the level cap. Back at 75 cap, very few things could be lowmanned. Then abyssea was released along with the level cap being lifted, and once we learned the ins and outs of abyssea, we also learned that lowmanning was the way to go for efficiency. Along with abyssea, there were also being made changes to older events, which allowed us to lowman or even solo those aswell. All this contributed to the death of the typical large endgame linkshells as we knew them.



Contrary to what Pchan thinks, many large endgame linkshells exist even in this state of the game. Some adapted through Abyssea and still survive today. A quick review of the linkshell lists on AH.com and all the linkshells posting testimonials on the Fracture Bosses on BG illustrate that there are still a great number of multiple-event shells left.

It is a bit facetious to claim that the game changed so much during the time of Abyssea when 18-man content has been continually implemented at essentially the same time. Voidwatch, Legion, ADL, and Odin v2 were all events a linkshell could rotate between. Lowmanning in Abyssea did not even happen as the norm until Minikin/RR was added in the second Abyssea add-on. Soon after, VW was implemented, thereby giving larger groups a new 18-man event to sink their teeth into. Of course, Abyssea was many times more popular and many times more rewarding than Voidwatch, and therefore it takes primacy in peoples' minds with respect to the "trend" of the game. The fact remains though that SE has tried to cater to both types of events.

I don't think it's such a crime for SE to implement ONE single event in its entire new patch that takes a coordinated linkshell (i.e., Fracture Bosses). All other events in Adoulin can theoretically be done in PUGs. The devs should be catering to both casual players and hardcore players; each set is vital to the game's success.


I just don't see the point to invest so much time in it when :
- getting 70k plasm per run is useless when you are 3 months after the adoulin-VU and all your gear should be upgraded already (if not you may ask yourself if you are really efficient at delve)
- RME going back on top which is especiallly interesting for me due to my sig.
- Holidays and FFXIV both are coming so noone will play the game at least for the next 6 months

Actually, if someone elected to get 70k plasm in one 45 minute run to upgrade their gear (or buy Airlixir +2's to sell at 7M a pop) instead of spending 450 minutes going on 10 runs at ~7k plasm per run, I'd say they were pretty darn efficient at Delve.

[Merton9999]

Missions, Quests, Mog Gardens, Coalition assignments, new areas to explore, Monstrosity, Skirmish, and lastly yes, Reives. I saw quite a few things in there myself. In the end, still not what matters most, broken things are still broken, Delve is still to many people with no announced low-man version, they said they are working on it, but no release. Which to me means its coming to late to matter to anyone interested probably because FFXIV, or simply people not willing to wait on the game to be worth playing anymore.

Yeah I misrepresented that. I should have specified that the only low-man addition coming that looked possibly interesting to me was Reive adjustments, but unfortunately those were boring in their old form after a week. Monstrosity and Mog Gardens never appealed to me, so I just skipped them in the update notes. But objectively yes there's more than Reives for low-man.

I just read your request to stop new content and honestly that's what's behind much of my disappointment. I was excited by a new expansion, especially new jobs, but once I saw what that actually contained my mind just went back to all of the things that sounded cool from the roadmap - SPs, avatars, merits. Those things, along with UI and inventory space improvements, are a lot more exciting to me than new cross-job equipment.

[FrankReynolds]

Contrary to what Pchan thinks, many large endgame linkshells exist even in this state of the game. Some adapted through Abyssea and still survive today. A quick review of the linkshell lists on AH.com and all the linkshells posting testimonials on the Fracture Bosses on BG illustrate that there are still a great number of multiple-event shells left.

It is a bit facetious to claim that the game changed so much during the time of Abyssea when 18-man content has been continually implemented at essentially the same time. Voidwatch, Legion, ADL, and Odin v2 were all events a linkshell could rotate between..

Out of curiosity, how many linkshells would you say are doing Delve Bosses?

[Kincard]

Seekers is great and way better than the recycled mediocrity that was rolled out in the past 2 years or so stretching from Crystalline Prophecy through Voidwatch.

Saying that fighting in glorified meripos and killing rocks and trees is superior to a bunch of fetch quests attached to a pathetic excuse for a story is like saying Chinese Water Torture isn't as bad as having your eyeballs gouged out.

[MarkovChain]

While I wish it to be true that R/E/Ms will be equal/superior to Delve weapons, and stay that way, I don't think that will be the case. Maybe you missed this post Pchan:


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34679-Item-Levels?p=448309&viewfull=1#post448309

in particular this part:



Edit: that post is from yesterday by the way, and going by that they are planning to add equipment that surpasses R/E/Ms even after they get their update. :/

Well I think it's over then. If people realize the devs have been lying about expanding RME it'll give everyone that has been playing over the last years a reason to quit. There is no way anyone sane could accept that a single NM kill allows you to have 100% access (as there is no drop rate, it's a Key item) to a weapon that beats by 40% others requiring several hundred of hours to obtain which many already obtained. Now if they allow to build better weapons that are obtained in a similar way as rme (with effort) it's a different story.

Anyway we must take caution when reading the devs. They think their delve gear is super awesome but in reality all the mage gear sucks, and as for DDs you can allow at best one or two pieces in a ultimate build. In reality I've yet to see them release something that beats nyzul2 or salvage2 gear (all low man events..). For instance on monk only the delve legs stand out, the rest is ubber crap especially on delve bosses where you can abuse some jobs unique ability (atm : soulvoiced madrigal minuet etc).

[Mahoro]

Out of curiosity, how many linkshells would you say are doing Delve Bosses?

I haven't counted all the shells posting strategies, but the information is accessible.

[Castoth]

All I know is that 90% of my LS (possibly including myself) is gone after July if Square doesn't fix the problems with SoA that have been repeated ad nauseam here, and in most other topics.

[Daemon]

You guys should check out my Guide here in General Discussion. Invitation to Plasm Farming. It may change your point of view.

[FrankReynolds]

You guys should check out my Guide here in General Discussion. Invitation to Plasm Farming. It may change your point of view.

I know how to farm plasm. I have a few delve weapons etc.too, but me having my gear isn't gonna keep all these other people playing the game.

That guide was well written, thoughtful and probably quite helpful to quite a few people. Thank you for writing that.

The problem is that it's a lot of hurdles to jump through. If you want to start on delve now, you have to do a whole bunch of crap that people who started a few weeks ago didn't have to do because the standard for DDS / mages changed that fast. Why would someone want to spend weeks / months getting geared up just to gain entry into something that other people got to walk right into the day it came out?

It's like people who missed the first day of high school having to start over at kindergarten.

[Demon6324236]

It's like people who missed the first day of high school having to start over at kindergarten.Well, it is and its not, its not exactly like people who were there at release for Adoulin or Delve got some stuff for free or something. We did all of the same stuff they basically have to do at some point in our time on this game, its just that when we did it, more people were doing it overall, now not as many people are, so its harder. Its more like if we went through all of the grades and were in 9th grade while others are just entering 1st or 2nd, its not really that they were screwed for not being to the 9th grade classes on time, they just weren't here before and have to work their way up. If they are smart enough, or in this case, skilled and lucky enough, they can skip through some of the stuff, and get things done faster than others, if they are not, they have to take their time, and in some cases, even fall behind and take longer. We did not get a free ride through this content, we were just already prepared, they were not, as such, they need to build for it, that is part of the problem, and that guide helps people do just that, prepare for what is ahead, rather than simply throwing themselves at it hoping they do well.

[FrankReynolds]

Well, it is and its not, its not exactly like people who were there at release for Adoulin or Delve got some stuff for free or something. We did all of the same stuff they basically have to do at some point in our time on this game, its just that when we did it, more people were doing it overall, now not as many people are, so its harder. Its more like if we went through all of the grades and were in 9th grade while others are just entering 1st or 2nd, its not really that they were screwed for not being to the 9th grade classes on time, they just weren't here before and have to work their way up. If they are smart enough, or in this case, skilled and lucky enough, they can skip through some of the stuff, and get things done faster than others, if they are not, they have to take their time, and in some cases, even fall behind and take longer. We did not get a free ride through this content, we were just already prepared, they were not, as such, they need to build for it, that is part of the problem, and that guide helps people do just that, prepare for what is ahead, rather than simply throwing themselves at it hoping they do well.

Nah, a few weeks ago, I could get in outside NM groups and Plasm farm runs on sam with just +2 abbysea gear and a tp bonus GK. Now people want you to go farm all the reive / skirmish gear and weapons and then they still probably won't let you in on a DD job. Honestly, I see about one DD slot open a day in shouts right now and it takes one shout to fill it. At this point, if you can't lead a run, you better have some damn good gear. I actually see more people shouting (No DD JOBS please) a lot. Things are rough.

[Milva]

Nah, a few weeks ago, I could get in outside NM groups and Plasm farm runs on sam with just +2 abbysea gear and a tp bonus GK. Now people want you to go farm all the reive / skirmish gear and weapons and then they still probably won't let you in on a DD job. Honestly, I see about one DD slot open a day in shouts right now and it takes one shout to fill it. At this point, if you can't lead a run, you better have some damn good gear. I actually see more people shouting (No DD JOBS please) a lot. Things are rough.
Not to offend you, but Delve isn't instanced - it can cater for few alliances inside at the same time. Toss out a shout (anyone is free to do so!) and see how many people are willing to join you. If you're not willing to do that, you'll have to wait in line for invite, I'm afraid.

[FrankReynolds]

Not to offend you, but Delve isn't instanced - it can cater for few alliances inside at the same time. Toss out a shout (anyone is free to do so!) and see how many people are willing to join you. If you're not willing to do that, you'll have to wait in line for invite, I'm afraid.

The reality is that most people cannot do that so they do stand around waiting for an invite. You can call them lazy or stupid or whatever suits your mood, but if they get tired of standing around and leave then it probably will hurt you more than them.

People who can't play the game (whether in actuality of just in perception) don't stay and there aren't enough new people coming in to compensate for that. And to be clear, I have mage jobs geared sufficiently to get me into groups. I am speaking about people in general. One mans "challenge" is another mans "Pain in the ass".

People always say " Well if you want X you gotta put in the work..." .

No, no you don't. Proving that they have good work ethic has never been a compelling reason to play a video game for the vast majority of people who play them.

[Runespider]

SoA was a cash grab, FFXI is pretty much done and they expect you all to move to FFXIV like well behaved little sheep.

If you can't see it for what it is then you have nobody to blame but yourself, even the guy in charge of FFXI now is a XIV part timer..

[detlef]

Right now, if you don't have a group that's capable of tackling delve fracture mega bosses, I don't see how the game is very fun right now.

[Mahoro]

The reality is that most people cannot do that so they do stand around waiting for an invite. You can call them lazy or stupid or whatever suits your mood, but if they get tired of standing around and leave then it probably will hurt you more than them.



What is stopping them?

[FrankReynolds]

What is stopping them?

They're shy, their stupid, their morally opposed, they just don't have time? I don't know why people work at Walmart or McDonald's instead of being brain surgeons and movie stars. They just do.

It doesn't matter why. You can't change them. You can only change the game. They need to find a middle ground to keep the movers and shakers happy as well as the hapless layabouts and everyone in between. They are far from that right now.

[OmnysValefor]

Everyone always focuses on killing faster, but slow and steady can sometimes win the race more easily. suicidal zergs are fun and usually work but finesse, which is often lost on today's players, can make some fights a less stressful experience.

Slow and steady doesn't win the race when you have 6 formidable opponents that must be killed within 45 minutes. Ok, 5, Matamata doesn't count. I've seen a video now of a group killing all 6 bosses in 30 minutes (they did it 3x in a row). That 30 minutes does allow for the possibility that something might screw up, a key person dc, etc etc, and they might wipe once. 5 minutes to recover, and take another go.

As an Aegis/Ochain, I gotta acknowledge the fact that slow and steady is stupid. Having me in the alliance means I can laugh at Firaga V, but it doesn't mean *anything* for the rest of the alliance. All my presence means is that the healers are safe from a wipe, if that happens. SE doesn't give us the tools right now to do slow and steady.

Truthfully, it doesn't even mean that, it's probably easier to just wipe it up, since there's no group trying to claim off you in Delve, and everyone reraise than for the healers try to simultaneously raise the DD *and* keep me alive.

They made the great enmity update and broke it the very next update with the delve weapons.

With that patch, they effectively sent the playerbase the message: zerging is what you're supposed to be doing. We know hate is broken, and that's alright by us.


GEO has one thing going for it which makes it useful, the fact that it can debuff some enemies that can't easily be debuffed any other way. I think the technical issues and the things that are being addressed by the next patch kind of overshadow the fact that GEO can actually be put to some reasonable use.

Easily? Try "can't", period. It also provides unique debuffs, and in the case of mobs that an rdm can debuff, the effects stack. RDM merely enhances the value of GEO.


Of all things, why did [GEO/RDM AF being released at 99] turn you off? Do you really want to walk all over a bunch of easy quests to get oyur job's trademark gear? Do you really want to spend all the time grinding to upgrade them before they beocme useful? Do you really want to do level 40-50 stuff in a level 99+ area?

Honestly, this move makes sense. if it wasn't unfair to everyone who hasn't already completed all the other job's AF quests and done the upgrades, i'd say they should all be changed to be like this. It's a little weird that the AF will be the higher tier of job armor for these jobs, but I'll take it if it means relevant gear with good stats.

^ I agree here. Who wants a piece that's merely a macro piece? Some of RUN's AF may well be good tp pieces, or for tanking. I'd much rather that than the 10-15 most jobs either A) have no use for or B) merely use for split-second swaps.

[Daemon]

Honestly I've seen so many negative comments from people talking as if they know Delve like the back of their hand yet they are complaining that the can't get invited because they didn't even have AF3 +2 yet? Is it me or am I the only one here that's not on drugs?

Then I see players complaining they waited all day to get invited but didn't have enough people so they are pissed and now rage quitting because they say its SE's Fault that Delve destroyed the game? Am I the only person not on drugs?

I lead parties all the time. I've made groups for Reives, Seal hunts, VW, WoE, Exp parties and yet I've had no problems so I'm not understanding what other people are talking about?

I barely play delve as I've been having so much fun in WoE earning the gil to buy all of my Airelixers+1 to upgrade my gear because Im so bored of spending 2 hours plus waiting to get a Delve group party made (Lack of Bards/Cor). then we gotta walk to Morier Basalt Fields yay it's just so much fun I could just die... and all because no one reives so we gotta spend about 30-45 Minutes killing each reive in our path, I think I afkd once and ran to burgerking ordered my meal and came back and the group was still going at it... Which is about 2-3 in our way before our group can reach the place where leader enters us in. Then of course waiting 5 minutes trying to get the entire group to pay attention so the leader can take another 5 minutes to run us through on which groups goes which way...

Seriously? Delve is not all that some of you so overwhelmingly make it out to be. Our LS only does it 1-2 times a week as an event. And SE doesn't play the game for you. It's the players who play the game. You don't need Delve weapons to make friends. You don't need a delve weapon to make a party. You don't need a delve weapon to make a VW event nor do you need a delve weapon to do other stuff in game.

Because that's exactly how I'm observing some people's attitudes. Should I just add /befriend delveweapon on my Friendslist?

For those of you who are so misguided and clueless.. Stop being so negative and lazy and make up your own events, there's way more fun things to do than Delve. Go work on your Magian trials, Emp, mythic, NNI climbs and salvage, WOE is way too fun. And atleast not only do I have 15 different bosses to choose from, I can make so much gil to help me work on buying those azdaja pops and offer for free the +2s and seals.

We only had a couple of people with EMP, and like 2 people with Relic 99 in our first delve party. So to say "only delve weapon" can do it is either drug abuse or someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

[FrankReynolds]

Honestly I've seen so many negative comments from people talking as if they know Delve like the back of their hand yet they are complaining that the can't get invited because they didn't even have AF3 +2 yet? Is it me or am I the only one here that's not on drugs?

Then I see players complaining they waited all day to get invited but didn't have enough people so they are pissed and now rage quitting because they say its SE's Fault that Delve destroyed the game? Am I the only person not on drugs?

I lead parties all the time. I've made groups for Reives, Seal hunts, VW, WoE, Exp parties and yet I've had no problems so I'm not understanding what other people are talking about?

I barely play delve as I've been having so much fun in WoE earning the gil to buy all of my Airelixers+1 to upgrade my gear because Im so bored of spending 2 hours plus waiting to get a Delve group party made (Lack of Bards/Cor). then we gotta walk to Morier Basalt Fields yay it's just so much fun I could just die... and all because no one reives so we gotta spend about 30-45 Minutes killing each reive in our path, I think I afkd once and ran to burgerking ordered my meal and came back and the group was still going at it... Which is about 2-3 in our way before our group can reach the place where leader enters us in. Then of course waiting 5 minutes trying to get the entire group to pay attention so the leader can take another 5 minutes to run us through on which groups goes which way...

Seriously? Delve is not all that you so overwhelmingly make it out to be. Or LS oh does it 1-2 times a week as an event. And SE doesn't play the game for you. It's the players who play the game. You don't need Delve weapons to make friends. You don't need a delve weapon to make a party. You don't need a delve weapon to make a VW event nor do you need a delve weapon to do other stuff in game.

Because that's exactly how I'm observing some people's attitudes. Should I just add /befriend delveweapon on my Friendslist?

For those of you who are so misguided and clueless.. Stop being so negative and lazy and make up your own events, there's way more fun things to do than Delve. Go work on your Magian trials, Emp, mythic, NNI climbs and salvage, WOE is way too fun. And atleast not only do I have 15 different bosses to choose from, I can make so much gil to help me work on buying those azdaja pops and offer for free the +2s and seals.

We only had a couple of people with EMP, and like 2 people with Relic 99 in outlet first delve party. So to say "only delve weapon" can do it is either drug abuse or someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

Good for you. For every one of you, there are 50 who just can't get in the groove. It may be Real life issues like a job or a family, it may be laziness, it may be that they have mechanical bees swarming around their heads. It doesn't matter. They just don't get it and the game needs them to get it.

If it makes you feel better, call them stupid or misguided or lazy or noobs or whatever makes your epeen rise, but just know that You are screwing yourself and everyone else by doing so.

[Daemon]

Good for you. For every one of you, there are 50 who just can't get in the groove. It may be Real life issues like a job or a family, it may be laziness, it may be that they have mechanical bees swarming around their heads. It doesn't matter. They just don't get it and the game needs them to get it.

If it makes you feel better, call them stupid or misguided or lazy or noobs or whatever makes your epeen rise, but just know that You are screwing yourself and everyone else by doing so.

I never called anyone misguided or lazy because they might have issues with irl stuff or can't play whatever. I said that to those who are talking about delve as if they know it like the back of their hand yet complain they can't even get an invite.

Huge difference compared to how you make me sound.

1 of me... Yeah real nice. I don't even like delve. And I'm sitting here trying to tell everyone that there's more to the game than this one topic everyone is just so caught up to death in.

[FrankReynolds]

I never called anyone misguided or lazy because they might have issues with irl stuff or can't play whatever. I said that to those who are talking about delve as if they know it like the back of their hand yet complain they can't even get an invite.

Huge difference compared to how you make me sound.

1 of me... Yeah real nice. I don't even like delve. And I'm sitting here trying to tell everyone that there's more to the game than this one topic everyone is just so caught up to death in.

Yeah, your attitude was real friendly like. I just made you sound like a bad guy...

[Daemon]

Yeah, your attitude was real friendly like. I just made you sound like a bad guy...

You did indeed because I'm only talking to those who are being negative thinking Delve is the only thing that matters when it's not.

[Karah]

You did indeed because I'm only talking to those who are being negative thinking Delve is the only thing that matters when it's not.

Actually, it literally is. Seen the colonization rates lately? Seen the Campaign map lately?
How long has it been since your server lost the candy in besieged?

I know I'm going to get banned again for saying this, but a few people will see it.

The disconnect isn't between the good and bad players, it's between douchebags and the not good enough to play with douchebags, then there's the good enough but unwilling to play with douchebags.

There's 2 groups and only two that are doing delve on my server, they're populated with really good players and like 3-4 complete scum.

I might be the only one with integrity left, but people used to dislike people, and they didn't talk about it, then grit their teeth and go with them anyway just because.

We've been left with no reasonable options, big linkshells died for a reason. They needed to stay dead. Not be resurrected.

Their are no longer the caliber players capable (at least here) to make big content work. Maybe if you merged EVERY server together, there might one or two worthwhile groups of people that are getting things done, but it completely fails right now.

There are more gimps/noobs/clueless people with Oatixur in 1 month, than there ever was with verethragna over the 3 years it has been available.

[Mahoro]

We've been left with no reasonable options, big linkshells died for a reason. They needed to stay dead. Not be resurrected.

Their are no longer the caliber players capable (at least here) to make big content work. Maybe if you merged EVERY server together, there might one or two worthwhile groups of people that are getting things done, but it completely fails right now.



They didn't die. A lot of them weathered through, and I see more now than I ever did before. Every day on forums there are posts recruiting for them. I'm honestly glad to see content that can't be blazed through by some melee and his pocket WHM mule. And they are adding new stuff next patch for lowmanning.

[Daemon]

Actually, it literally is. Seen the colonization rates lately? Seen the Campaign map lately?
How long has it been since your server lost the candy in besieged?

I know I'm going to get banned again for saying this, but a few people will see it.

The disconnect isn't between the good and bad players, it's between douchebags and the not good enough to play with douchebags, then there's the good enough but unwilling to play with douchebags.

There's 2 groups and only two that are doing delve on my server, they're populated with really good players and like 3-4 complete scum.

I might be the only one with integrity left, but people used to dislike people, and they didn't talk about it, then grit their teeth and go with them anyway just because.

We've been left with no reasonable options, big linkshells died for a reason. They needed to stay dead. Not be resurrected.

Their are no longer the caliber players capable (at least here) to make big content work. Maybe if you merged EVERY server together, there might one or two worthwhile groups of people that are getting things done, but it completely fails right now.

There are more gimps/noobs/clueless people with Oatixur in 1 month, than there ever was with verethragna over the 3 years it has been available.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34679-Item-Levels?p=449086#post449086

[FrankReynolds]

They didn't die. A lot of them weathered through, and I see more now than I ever did before. Every day on forums there are posts recruiting for them. I'm honestly glad to see content that can't be blazed through by some melee and his pocket WHM mule. And they are adding new stuff next patch for lowmanning.

I used to be able to pick from several different shells for dynamis, sky, sea, einherjar, znm, the list goes on in my time zone and go with the ones that had the rules / people that I liked based on just having red mage. No especially good gear. Just a willingness to show up and do my best until I got that gear. How many shells do you suppose are doing delve bosses on cerberus right now at all? I'll take a stab based on the shouts and say maybe 4 or 5 and all they want are R/E bards.

Let's just go crazy and say there are 40 of them though. What are the odds that
A) they want anything that most people have
B) they are in the correct time zone
C) they speak the right language
D) aren't going to be complete a-holes
?

Think about that and then ask yourself how that is good for a dying community.

There is an really well geared player on my server who has been shouting for an invite to tojil for 2 days now. For hours at a time. It's really friggin lame.

[Karah]

They didn't die. A lot of them weathered through, and I see more now than I ever did before. Every day on forums there are posts recruiting for them.
Social linkshell =/= event linkshell, 99% of all event linkshells died, good riddance, social linkshells who cares.



I'm honestly glad to see content that can't be blazed through by some melee and his pocket WHM mule. And they are adding new stuff next patch for lowmanning.

In case you didn't notice, this content is being BLAZED through faster than abyssea ever was. It's only taken a couple weeks and Tojil is beaten 100 times per day. it took about a year to make most people soloing with pocket whms everywhere.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34679-Item-Levels?p=449086#post449086

I literally had not seen this, thank you for pointing it out, I had no interest in reading that thread, and it had gone unnoticed. However, it being a great post, it's a few months too late. It's all irrelevant now that Delve wins are being bought and sold daily. It will inevitably fail even harder to make any dent.

[svengalis]

They're shy, their stupid, their morally opposed, they just don't have time? I don't know why people work at Walmart or McDonald's instead of being brain surgeons and movie stars. They just do.

It doesn't matter why. You can't change them. You can only change the game. They need to find a middle ground to keep the movers and shakers happy as well as the hapless layabouts and everyone in between. They are far from that right now.

Because everyone can be a brain surgeon or movie star.... rolls eyes.... isn't it obvious? because everyone is not the same, we all have our reasons for not wanting to do any event or thing. Maybe they don't find it fun? Maybe they can't lead an alliance to do it? Maybe it's because they don't have the right jobs to do delve bosses? Maybe it's because they don't want to be locked into a job they don't enjoy just to get equipment for the job they do enjoy?

It's like I like PUP, but I can't do any of the fun stuff I want on PUP, I am constantly gearing PUP by using other jobs. Why can't I use PUP to gear PUP? There could be any number of reasons.

[svengalis]

Honestly I've seen so many negative comments from people talking as if they know Delve like the back of their hand yet they are complaining that the can't get invited because they didn't even have AF3 +2 yet? Is it me or am I the only one here that's not on drugs?

Then I see players complaining they waited all day to get invited but didn't have enough people so they are pissed and now rage quitting because they say its SE's Fault that Delve destroyed the game? Am I the only person not on drugs?

I lead parties all the time. I've made groups for Reives, Seal hunts, VW, WoE, Exp parties and yet I've had no problems so I'm not understanding what other people are talking about?

I barely play delve as I've been having so much fun in WoE earning the gil to buy all of my Airelixers+1 to upgrade my gear because Im so bored of spending 2 hours plus waiting to get a Delve group party made (Lack of Bards/Cor). then we gotta walk to Morier Basalt Fields yay it's just so much fun I could just die... and all because no one reives so we gotta spend about 30-45 Minutes killing each reive in our path, I think I afkd once and ran to burgerking ordered my meal and came back and the group was still going at it... Which is about 2-3 in our way before our group can reach the place where leader enters us in. Then of course waiting 5 minutes trying to get the entire group to pay attention so the leader can take another 5 minutes to run us through on which groups goes which way...

Seriously? Delve is not all that some of you so overwhelmingly make it out to be. Our LS only does it 1-2 times a week as an event. And SE doesn't play the game for you. It's the players who play the game. You don't need Delve weapons to make friends. You don't need a delve weapon to make a party. You don't need a delve weapon to make a VW event nor do you need a delve weapon to do other stuff in game.

Because that's exactly how I'm observing some people's attitudes. Should I just add /befriend delveweapon on my Friendslist?

For those of you who are so misguided and clueless.. Stop being so negative and lazy and make up your own events, there's way more fun things to do than Delve. Go work on your Magian trials, Emp, mythic, NNI climbs and salvage, WOE is way too fun. And atleast not only do I have 15 different bosses to choose from, I can make so much gil to help me work on buying those azdaja pops and offer for free the +2s and seals.

We only had a couple of people with EMP, and like 2 people with Relic 99 in our first delve party. So to say "only delve weapon" can do it is either drug abuse or someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

You do know that you only need to be in zone to enter a Delve fracture right? and that only the leader needs to be at the enter point?

[Daemon]

You do know that you only need to be in zone to enter a Delve fracture right? and that only the leader needs to be at the enter point?

Yeah did you read carefully? Morier basalt field, since no one barely does reives, there is no waypoint therefore we had fight our way through to get there. 1 leader can't kill entire relieve solo.

[Demon6324236]

Ulti, you either took a route that was very poorly planed out, or something was wrong there. There is a path from Adoulin to the entrance to Morimar's Fracture zone, so you can get there from Adoulin without a single Reive.

[FrankReynolds]

Because everyone can be a brain surgeon or movie star.... rolls eyes.... isn't it obvious? because everyone is not the same, we all have our reasons for not wanting to do any event or thing. Maybe they don't find it fun? Maybe they can't lead an alliance to do it? Maybe it's because they don't have the right jobs to do delve bosses? Maybe it's because they don't want to be locked into a job they don't enjoy just to get equipment for the job they do enjoy?

It's like I like PUP, but I can't do any of the fun stuff I want on PUP, I am constantly gearing PUP by using other jobs. Why can't I use PUP to gear PUP? There could be any number of reasons.

You misunderstood the context.

[Mahoro]

I used to be able to pick from several different shells for dynamis, sky, sea, einherjar, znm, the list goes on in my time zone and go with the ones that had the rules / people that I liked based on just having red mage. No especially good gear. Just a willingness to show up and do my best until I got that gear. How many shells do you suppose are doing delve bosses on cerberus right now at all? I'll take a stab based on the shouts and say maybe 4 or 5 and all they want are R/E bards.

Let's just go crazy and say there are 40 of them though. What are the odds that
A) they want anything that most people have
B) they are in the correct time zone
C) they speak the right language
D) aren't going to be complete a-holes
?

Think about that and then ask yourself how that is good for a dying community.

There is an really well geared player on my server who has been shouting for an invite to tojil for 2 days now. For hours at a time. It's really friggin lame.

I agree that it may not be the best approach for a dwindling playerbase, but we ARE just talking about three fights in an entire expansion. The fault doesn't lie with creating these particular fights, which are refreshingly challenging. The fault lies with SE for not introducing enough content at varying levels and playstyle, which they are apparently going to rectify in the next two patches according to their dev notes.

On Lakshmi right now there are at least 4 or 5 NA LS's working on Fracture Bosses and likely 5+ JP LS's as well (probably more on the JP end). Collectively, that's probably around 200-300+ players, which is not an insignificant percentage of the server population.


Social linkshell =/= event linkshell, 99% of all event linkshells died, good riddance, social linkshells who cares.

I didn't mean social linkshells, I meant event linkshells. Your 99% number is supremely exaggerated. Even in Abyssea's heyday, there were many LS's who went in as an ally, broke up in groups, and farmed zones efficiently. I will agree that some shells likely disintegrated, and the overall number probably dipped shortly after RR/Minikin was released. But many survived and many sprang up anew from 2011-2013 as events such as Voidwatch, Legion, Odin v.2, and ADL popped up. From the way you recount history, people insta-dropped their pearls as soon as one or two single add-ons came out. But a lot of shells adapted and focused on the mobs that were actually somewhat challenging up until the third and final add-on + Shinryu. Voidwatch began shortly thereafter, and that began a stream of 18+ player events.


In case you didn't notice, this content is being BLAZED through faster than abyssea ever was. It's only taken a couple weeks and Tojil is beaten 100 times per day. it took about a year to make most people soloing with pocket whms everywhere.

We are talking about two different things. Three 45-minute fights versus nine zones full of NM's and quests. Obviously the new fights can be blazed through, but I just meant can't be dual-boxed.

[FrankReynolds]

I agree that it may not be the best approach for a dwindling playerbase, but we ARE just talking about three fights in an entire expansion. The fault doesn't lie with creating these particular fights, which are refreshingly challenging. The fault lies with SE for not introducing enough content at varying levels and playstyle, which they are apparently going to rectify in the next two patches according to their dev notes.

On Lakshmi right now there are at least 4 or 5 NA LS's working on Fracture Bosses and likely 5+ JP LS's as well (probably more on the JP end). Collectively, that's probably around 200-300+ players, which is not an insignificant percentage of the server population.

It's actually probably less than 180 (18*10=???) on a server with umm... I don't know. How many active players are there on lakshmi? On my server that wouldn't even be 10%. I'm pretty sure that lakshmi has a far higher number of players than cerberus.

Content that only ten percent of the population can enjoy doesn't sound like a formula for success to me. Do you think the new delve content will be easier to get into? I didn't get that impression from the notes. I got the impression that it would be more bosses. I'm guessing that having gear from the previous ones will be a requirement, if not due to the design itself then certainly from the LS that are doing them now.




I didn't mean social linkshells, I meant event linkshells. Your 99% number is supremely exaggerated. Even in Abyssea's heyday, there were many LS's who went in as an ally, broke up in groups, and farmed zones efficiently. I will agree that some shells likely disintegrated, and the overall number probably dipped shortly after RR/Minikin was released. But many survived and many sprang up anew from 2011-2013 as events such as Voidwatch, Legion, Odin v.2, and ADL popped up. From the way you recount history, people insta-dropped their pearls as soon as one or two single add-ons came out. But a lot of shells adapted and focused on the mobs that were actually somewhat challenging up until the third and final add-on + Shinryu. Voidwatch began shortly thereafter, and that began a stream of 18+ player events.

Of the 5 linkshells that I was in when abyssea started, all but one died within the first 2 months. The other died around when Voidwatch came out. Legion did not see a rise in large linkshells on my server.


We are talking about two different things. Three 45-minute fights versus nine zones full of NM's and quests. Obviously the new fights can be blazed through, but I just meant can't be dual-boxed.

I'm sure some people will disagree, but I'm pretty sure that dude killing glavoid is working just as hard as the 18 people in delve right now. I use the same WS, DT-, TP, stun, cure etc. macros when I'm in a party as I do when I'm alone. Do your buttons get harder to push when your in a group? because mine don't. Matter of fact, I imagine that DDIng and curing at the same time is probably more challenging than following the group around and doing what you're told (actually I know so because I've done both for years).

[detlef]

Honestly, I'm really digging Adoulin right now. But that's because I'm fortunate to have a linkshell that's capable of tackling Delve mega bosses. If we weren't constantly working toward that goal, I think I would be incredibly bored with the game at this time. I feel bad for a lot of people who are disheartened with the game right now and it's clear that SE needs to act quickly and decisively or lose those players.

[Demon6324236]

I'm sure some people will disagree, but I'm pretty sure that dude killing glavoid is working just as hard as the 18 people in delve right now. I use the same WS, DT-, TP, stun, cure etc. macros when I'm in a party as I do when I'm alone. Do your buttons get harder to push when your in a group? because mine don't. Matter of fact, I imagine that DDIng and curing at the same time is probably more challenging than following the group around and doing what you're told (actually I know so because I've done both for years).Your right, the difference is the time it takes. You get your Delve weapon done in how much time? 30k Plasm, say you do slightly below average runs, that's 5k to me, so 6 runs, 45 minutes a run not counting down time, that's 4.5 hours of work. Not counting Glavoid down time, meaning restoneing, atma, buffs, all that good stuff, just the time farming things, between the pop items for the NMs and the total of, I think, 6 NMs needed to fight Glavoid, I would say Glavoid takes probably 45 minutes just to build 6 or so pops. After that comes killing, which takes some time too. All in all I think the same amount of time you spend doing 2 Plasm runs on the inside is the same amount of time a person spends on Glavoid making and killing 1 parties worth of pops. So they are now roughly 1/5th done, while your 1/3rd done, and at the same time, your weapon is much stronger, and theirs is only getting the base stage, level 75, no WS, no base stats, no worth, just a special look. If you count in the 85 stage, they have 1/10th, if you count in 90 stages, that's 10/175th, so overall progress so far as Glavoid goes, yes, I think Glavoid is harder than Plasm farming, and takes more time/effort to do, as such, it is deserving of a more powerful reward. Now, do Delve weapons deserve better upgrades for each Airlixir? I think so, but, I think Plates and Dross or Cinder take more time and effort than Airlixirs, their distribution is more concentrated, and their prices on the player market are quite a bit higher in overall amounts I believe. As such, a 99 Emp should be stronger than a Delve weapon I believe.

I have given you nothing but math facts based on times I have experienced as well as prices I have witnessed recently, I think I have made my point.

[Tamoa]

The disconnect isn't between the good and bad players, it's between douchebags and the not good enough to play with douchebags, then there's the good enough but unwilling to play with douchebags.



This, so very much. I agree with everything you said in that post, but the quoted part stood out the most to me. I do not want to line douchebags' pockets with millions of my gil for a boss win. And I do not want to be forced to play with people I dislike intensely to be able to do Delve.

[Karah]

I honestly think that's what has become the biggest problem. The people, (that's what it always comes down to isn't it). ((( well the failure of SoA is the cause of the biggest problem, driving people away)))

The community used to be big enough that if you hated someone, you could tell them, "hey you're a prick" and never have to do anything with them, ever.

Now, if you loathe someone, they're in every event... cause let's face it, there's only 100 people playing, and guess what, your option is to put up with them, or not do it.

It sucks, I've seen so many people give up their integrity for shinies. Sell-outs, pretty much yup.

It's just the same people over and over and over and over Ad nauseam.

That and half of each server either doesn't (yes they do) speak your language, or doesn't want to play with you even if they did.

The JP/EN within the same server has always been a crutch to both sides, I cannot honestly believe there was never made a single server strictly for English speaking/Japanese speaking players.

[Mahoro]

It's actually probably less than 180 (18*10=???) on a server with umm... I don't know. How many active players are there on lakshmi? On my server that wouldn't even be 10%. I'm pretty sure that lakshmi has a far higher number of players than cerberus.

You use 18 in your calculation above, but that is the bare minimum of what the event requires. Most large LS's have to recruit more than 18 players to run events because they have to allow for people's schedules and RL. (e.g., the large LS I co-lead has 35+ active members.) You can't just recruit 18 and count on those 18 to be online and at every event. That's why I surmised 200-300 in my prior post. Of course, the number of players who intend to gather people and form new groups likely pushes the number far above 300.


Content that only ten percent of the population can enjoy doesn't sound like a formula for success to me. Do you think the new delve content will be easier to get into? I didn't get that impression from the notes. I got the impression that it would be more bosses. I'm guessing that having gear from the previous ones will be a requirement, if not due to the design itself then certainly from the LS that are doing them now.

You are conflating two statistics. You say only 10% can "enjoy" the content, but you are using that figure to describe the percentage of people who can currently clear it. But the percentage of people who have access to the content and are interested in it is far greater than 10%. I've even seen PUGs form for these fights. As time passes, more groups will form and more people will be successful. But even if only 25% of the server population ultimately clear it, there wouldn't particularly be anything wrong with that. The content level was specifically set high by the devs. It is challenging content with commensurate rewards. However, Matsui has said more content will be coming in between content levels, with rewards designed to increase a player's performance for higher content levels.


Of the 5 linkshells that I was in when abyssea started, all but one died within the first 2 months. The other died around when Voidwatch came out. Legion did not see a rise in large linkshells on my server.

I'm sorry to hear that. 2 months seems quite premature because Visions was released in June 2010 and Scars with its overpowered Atma didn't follow till September 2010 >< Some LS leaders were shortsighted and couldn't adapt ;; I find it disturbing that one died when Voidwatch came out, as that event was tailor-made for large groups. :(


I'm sure some people will disagree, but I'm pretty sure that dude killing glavoid is working just as hard as the 18 people in delve right now. I use the same WS, DT-, TP, stun, cure etc. macros when I'm in a party as I do when I'm alone. Do your buttons get harder to push when your in a group? because mine don't. Matter of fact, I imagine that DDIng and curing at the same time is probably more challenging than following the group around and doing what you're told (actually I know so because I've done both for years).

I agree with your analysis but since this was never my point I'm afraid I have to deem it a strawman. Obviously, someone in a Delve Fracture boss group is not doing wholly unique things in the game. They aren't saying "woo, I'm pressing these buttons in a new and special way!" The difficulty comes in the timing and coordination with other people, and the enjoyment comes in that interaction. A lot of people were frustrated when the game splintered off and became a series of dual-boxers quietly farming on their own. For better or for worse, the trend of the game moved back toward community. That was what I meant in my post above, not that the Delve players are working harder than the Glavoid players on an individual basis.

[FrankReynolds]

You use 18 in your calculation above, but that is the bare minimum of what the event requires. Most large LS's have to recruit more than 18 players to run events because they have to allow for people's schedules and RL. (e.g., the large LS I co-lead has 35+ active members.) You can't just recruit 18 and count on those 18 to be online and at every event. That's why I surmised 200-300 in my prior post. Of course, the number of players who intend to gather people and form new groups likely pushes the number far above 300.


No they don't. Most LS just don't take people who aren't on their schedule. Why would they? The shells doing delve bosses on my server may be even smaller. I see them shouting for 99 R/E bards every once in a while. And I'm pretty sure that even at 200-300, that is still far less than 10% on your server, but ffxiah has been known to be inaccurate on this.


Technically, everyone has access and can "enjoy" the content,

Technically, anyone in america can be an astronaut or the president if they just put their minds to it...

People don't want to pay $30 to play content 1 year from now... maybe... if they actually make appropriate changes. And,why is it okay to spend all our money developing things for people that don't like us and won't let us play with them again?



I'm sorry to hear that. 2 months seems quite premature because Visions was released in June 2010 and Scars with its overpowered Atma didn't follow till September 2010 >< Some LS leaders were shortsighted and couldn't adapt ;; I find it disturbing that one died when Voidwatch came out, as that event was tailor-made for large groups. :(

It was tailored for large groups. Fortunately there was no reason that it had to be the same group every time. There was no need for linkshells to control loot distribution. Therefor no need for a linkshell.




I agree with your analysis but since this was never my point I'm afraid I have to deem it a strawman. Obviously, someone in a Delve Fracture boss group is not doing wholly unique things in the game. They aren't saying "woo, I'm pressing these buttons in a new and special way!" The difficulty comes in the timing and coordination with other people, and the enjoyment comes in that interaction. A lot of people were frustrated when the game splintered off and became a series of dual-boxers quietly farming on their own. For better or for worse, the trend of the game moved back toward community. That was what I meant in my post above, not that the Delve players are working harder than the Glavoid players on an individual basis.

Did the game move toward community? Because it seems like it didn't and that is what led to this conversation. Being able to do things friends and cooperate interact and coordinate is fun and exciting. I agree. But that is not what is happening at all for most people. A large portion of this game's players simply cannot do that. Others just don't want to. It is (believe it or not) possible to make content that can be enjoyed both in small or in large groups without forcing people to join linkshells and schedule their time around them.

Voidwatch was a good example of that. The problem there was that RME weapons were too far apart from the easily obtained options in terms of damage so people who formed groups excluded people who did not have them. It was no where near as bad as this, but still bad enough to screw some people out of regular participation.

[Mahoro]

No they don't. Most LS just don't take people who aren't on their schedule. Why would they? The shells doing delve bosses on my server may be even smaller. I see them shouting for 99 R/E bards every once in a while. And I'm pretty sure that even at 200-300, that is still far less than 10% on your server, but ffxiah has been known to be inaccurate on this.

The schedule thing you are discussing here sounds like you are raising an EU vs. NA vs. JP thing. Some people in certain time zones have always had difficulty getting groups for large-scale content. The game has always had those issues, and they are not endemic to Adoulin.


People don't want to pay $30 to play content 1 year from now... maybe... if they actually make appropriate changes. And,why is it okay to spend all our money developing things for people that don't like us and won't let us play with them again?

Delve Fracture bosses are just one event in an entire expansion. They are content level 20. Additional content is being added per the devs notes, as I've noted above exhaustively. The question of whether someone got their $30 worth in an expansion is very much an individual one, but one event can and should not be the dispositive factor.


It was tailored for large groups. Fortunately there was no reason that it had to be the same group every time. There was no need for linkshells to control loot distribution. Therefor no need for a linkshell.

There was no need to control loot distribution, but I know some multi-event shells that tackled it nevertheless, mine included. The content was also not embraced by PUGs at the outset. By the time it became popular in PUGs, additional 18-man events were introduced. Moreover, the extremely low drop rates ensured that people could enjoy these events in both PUG and LS event settings, because even spamming a mob off-hours in shout groups did not always result in 100% of a player's gear goals.


Did the game move toward community? Because it seems like it didn't and that is what led to this conversation. Being able to do things friends and cooperate interact and coordinate is fun and exciting. I agree. But that is not what is happening at all for most people. A large portion of this game's players simply cannot do that. Others just don't want to. It is (believe it or not) possible to make content that can be enjoyed both in small or in large groups without forcing people to join linkshells and schedule their time around them.

You're right. See above comment how Fracture bosses are only one event out of an entire expansion, and additional content is forthcoming for smaller groups. There is content in Adoulin right now for those small groups, but the issue has been identified by Matsui.

[FrankReynolds]

The schedule thing you are discussing here sounds like you are raising an EU vs. NA vs. JP thing. Some people in certain time zones have always had difficulty getting groups for large-scale content. The game has always had those issues, and they are not endemic to Adoulin.

What causes the problem doesn't matter. Only that the problem exists. Talking in circles about how people could adjust their schedule, tastes or life to the game won't make it happen. You have to make content available to the people. They will not make themselves available to the content. They will go where content fits their needs. This is not what anyone concerned with the future of this game should be excited about.


Delve Fracture bosses are just one event in an entire expansion. They are content level 20. Additional content is being added per the devs notes, as I've noted above exhaustively. The question of whether someone got their $30 worth in an expansion is very much an individual one, but one event can and should not be the dispositive factor.

Yes it should. Rewards bring people in. according to your reasoning, people should still be spamming campaign and garrison etc. because it's still content right? That's where this is going. everything but delve is relatively worthless. You keep quoting dev notes, but they haven't happened and there are thousands of things on these forums that have been promised and not delivered.



There was no need to control loot distribution, but I know some multi-event shells that tackled it nevertheless, mine included. The content was also not embraced by PUGs at the outset. By the time it became popular in PUGs, additional 18-man events were introduced.

You are confusing your experiences with everyone else. People haven't had your experiences. If they had, these forums would look very different.


You're right. See above comment how Fracture bosses are only one event out of an entire expansion, and additional content is forthcoming for smaller groups. There is content in Adoulin right now for those small groups, but the issue has been identified by Matsui.

Do you do those smaller events? I'm guessing that you don't because the rewards are crap. Why should other people do it?

[Oddwaffle]

@Mahoro: Umm... Delve isn't the only content in SOA, it's just that nobody cares about the other contents: Reive and Skirmish. Why? Cause Delve is easy to do and gives the best rewards. Yeah, sure there will be additional content but would anyone be doing those additional content or will they just be like current 'forgotten' content? These additional content will give less power rewards than Delve, that's a bad sign. If they take longer, luck based and require more work than Delve then I'm sure I won't be doing them unless I don't have anything else to do (like skirmish).

The way SOA structured is to favor large LS and ignores the low-man and solo players. Even the update will still put low-man and solo players to 2nd class. It's not just the stat on the equipment, it will be the perception of the players too. People used to ask for REM weapons even though some magian weapons are on-par or close to REM weapons. This is because SE created 2nd class stuff so people think it's not as good as the top class.

The new content for low-man and soloers MUST give similar if not the same reward as current Delve. People need something they can work towards. You can't just introduce something and tell people 'that's the best, do it'. You need alternatives. You need substitutes. You need side-grade items. This is to make sure that everyone can enjoy what they like without being crippled with 2nd rate equipments and ridiculed cause they don't like working in an alliance.

[Spectreman]

"Content that only ten percent of the population can enjoy doesn't sound like a formula for success to me."

I couldn't agree more with you but Square Enix is ruled by people that doesn't understand how the MMORPG market works nowadays. I never understood why their MMORPG (a fricking game, a form of entertainment) became a reflex of real life, recreating third-world capitalism structure where a billionaire minority controls the masses of miserables. Blizzard recently realized that changing this paradigm would be inevitable if they wanted to keep their 9 year old product having millions of subscribers (they still have 8mil subs after 9 years).

I miss those pure ages of MMORPG when people where immersed in a fantasy world trying to survive while helping build a community. Then devs started to create content that promoted elitism and brought the worst of all players.

[Alerith]

"Content that only ten percent of the population can enjoy doesn't sound like a formula for success to me."

I couldn't agree more with you but Square Enix is ruled by people that doesn't understand how the MMORPG market works nowadays. I never understood why their MMORPG (a fricking game, a form of entertainment) became a reflex of real life, recreating third-world capitalism structure where a billionaire minority controls the masses of miserables. Blizzard recently realized that changing this paradigm would be inevitable if they wanted to keep their 9 year old product having millions of subscribers (they still have 8mil subs after 9 years).

I miss those pure ages of MMORPG when people where immersed in a fantasy world trying to survive while helping build a community. Then devs started to create content that promoted elitism and brought the worst of all players.

Rarely is this the cause of the content.

In almost every instance, it's the players who cause these problems, be it elitism, economic issues, what have you. Players will play and manipulate a system into what will benefit them most.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

In almost every instance, it's the players who cause these problems

That's like blaming the tide for rising water: It doesn't excuse you from not building to compensate for it.

[Daemon]

Sorry Re-Post

Problem I see is that many people have either forgotten what an RPG game is or shifted somehow toward expecting this game to be instant quickplay grind and get items and be done type.

Also in my opinion, before SoA was released, everyone on the server set Homepoint for Jeuno, so it was a smaller world where it was easier to respond to lower levels asking for help. Or some players have been very busy focusing on them now trying to get their stuff done in Delve. Yes people are that lazy to use a waypoint and go back to Jeuno.

Lack of guides and expert advice falls into a good reason. The servers are like classrooms filled with kids that have no teachers no principles.

That's why you see selfish, self gain, or as some people call it "douchebags" no respect or common courtesy in several situations.

Then there are those who are single minded refusing to do anything else because the one thing they are desperate in doing they can't do therefore decides giving up and rage quitting because they lack skills (No I don't mean gaming skills)

Have we really forgotten our morales? Our social skills? Most of the time I encounter negative people that only know how to say I Can't, I Won't, I Refuse. Then there's Trolls who has nothing else better to do than make others miserable and put people down especially those in town trying to do positive things for others.

Too many people in this game sitting around "waiting" for things to happen instead of "making" things happen. And decide that because no one is going to do it for them they think complaining about it is the best solution rather than go out and explore the game.

There is way more out there that people can do and in fact need to do in order to participate in Delve T5 boss fights people don't even realize. You need those Relic gears upgraded. You need Augmented gears with best stats. You need gears from Salvage, NNi.

But the few who don't know this has already sent out an idea into the ffxi social world where others start to agree and feed off that negativity and then eventually people lose hope, motivation and interest and to many who clearly sees past all of it are sitting here wondering why are peopling choosing to make such a huge deal when there is no reason to begin with?

If people would read the guide I've been writing carefully, they would learn to see things at a different point of view..

To those who think Delve weapons is the only thing that matters.
You don't need Delve weapons to get Delve weapons. We didn't even have those and got them. And I'm pretty sure if you make a boss party to get kis, people with Delve weapons would most likely join to help out in killing bosses.

The biggest point that people are missing is that they think they can do delve in only AF Gear and Skip the part on getting Adoulin Gear.

Think about this Seekers of Adoulin is High Level Content no? Then wouldn't common sense tell you that the gear in Adoulin is made to match the level of that content?

And this is what I see many people trying to skip this expecting that they deserve to rock out Delve only to find out they are being refused for not being properly ready.

[Alerith]

That's like blaming the tide for rising water: It doesn't excuse you from not building to compensate for it.

And how do you compensate for it when the base system isn't inherently flawed? Look at R/M/E weapons. They are good weapons that take effort to get. There is nothing flawed with this system. A shout group requiring R/M/E weapons for invitation? That's not SE's doing, that's the players doing. What you suggest is akin to SE imposing some limit on the number of R/M/E that can be in a single alliance. At that point, it is now SE's fault for imposing such restrictive limitations.

The community is reaping the end result of its abuse of multiple systems that either couldn't be predicted or couldn't be directly influenced positively without some form of damage caused by the Dev team.

[FrankReynolds]

And how do you compensate for it when the base system isn't inherently flawed? Look at R/M/E weapons. They are good weapons that take effort to get. There is nothing flawed with this system. A shout group requiring R/M/E weapons for invitation? That's not SE's doing, that's the players doing. What you suggest is akin to SE imposing some limit on the number of R/M/E that can be in a single alliance. At that point, it is now SE's fault for imposing such restrictive limitations.

The community is reaping the end result of its abuse of multiple systems that either couldn't be predicted or couldn't be directly influenced positively without some form of damage caused by the Dev team.

SE made content that worked wayyy better when you had an RME. In the past, having an RME had very little affect on a groups ability to beat things. All these timed events cause a lot of it. People get all serious about damage output when weaker weapons can't finish the task in the allotted time, or when the drop rate is so bad that you have to kill the same NM 1,000 times just to get it. That's SE's fault. Not mine.

[Mahoro]

What causes the problem doesn't matter. Only that the problem exists. Talking in circles about how people could adjust their schedule, tastes or life to the game won't make it happen. You have to make content available to the people. They will not make themselves available to the content. They will go where content fits their needs. This is not what anyone concerned with the future of this game should be excited about.

Nobody is saying to readjust their schedule or lives over 45 minute fights. I would please request that you stop introducing factors into your arguments that are irrelevant to the issue at hand. We aren't talking about ye olden days of four hour Dynamis sessions. The longest fights in Adoulin are those silly Wildskeepers which are tied to the broken Colonization system whose rate of decay is being expressly patched. Otherwise, every aspect of it is bite-sized and RL-friendly. To the extent you are talking about LS schedules, we aren't talking about HNM camping in the wee hours of the morning. Players join or make LS's that have predictable hours based on their individual play schedule. The vast majority of people who play this game know approximately what time of the day they expect to play.

As for the content itself, we'll just have to see what they do. At the moment, we are still only talking about one event, Delve, which is made up of Plasm farming and Fracture Boss farming. Plasm farming has become somewhat popular, although admittedly somewhat exclusionary. Daemon has some good tips on how to defuse that. Some people bypass plasm farming by just getting the KIs and then farming other content for money to buy Airlixirs off the AH. Fracture Boss farming is not as common, but I don't think it was intended to be. It was intended to be the most difficult content for top-tier LS's or inordinately skillful PUGs.


Yes it should. Rewards bring people in. according to your reasoning, people should still be spamming campaign and garrison etc. because it's still content right? That's where this is going. everything but delve is relatively worthless. You keep quoting dev notes, but they haven't happened and there are thousands of things on these forums that have been promised and not delivered.

Now you're being facetious. I never said all content in the game is still worthwhile. But in any event, not everything but delve is "relatively worthless." The gear and scrolls/abjurations in other events such as Abyssea, Voidwatch, NNI, Legion, etc. have not been rendered worthless. The weapons have been outclassed, as well as certain pieces of armor, but gear from those other events still have a central part in most players' gear sets.


Do you do those smaller events? I'm guessing that you don't because the rewards are crap. Why should other people do it?

As stepping stones to harder content, of which more are said to be added directly in the next patch. I am not quoting dev notes that are wishful hopes. Matsui has already listed what will be in the coming patches.

To answer your question, I've only done a few Skirmishes, but I've Bayld farmed and Wildskeeper killed before colonization rates tanked and the mobs became 5 hour fights. Some Bayld gear, Skirmish gear, or WKR gear is not trash. There are a couple of worthwhile pieces for my jobs that didn't get instantly outclassed with Delve. For example, the Orvail set is heavily skewed toward M.Acc. to help mages land certain debuffs or Stun harder mobs. I still use the Orvail Legs in my SCH stun set. This is the type of gear progression Matsui likely had in mind.


@Mahoro: Umm... Delve isn't the only content in SOA, it's just that nobody cares about the other contents: Reive and Skirmish. Why? Cause Delve is easy to do and gives the best rewards. Yeah, sure there will be additional content but would anyone be doing those additional content or will they just be like current 'forgotten' content? These additional content will give less power rewards than Delve, that's a bad sign. If they take longer, luck based and require more work than Delve then I'm sure I won't be doing them unless I don't have anything else to do (like skirmish).

The way SOA structured is to favor large LS and ignores the low-man and solo players. Even the update will still put low-man and solo players to 2nd class. It's not just the stat on the equipment, it will be the perception of the players too. People used to ask for REM weapons even though some magian weapons are on-par or close to REM weapons. This is because SE created 2nd class stuff so people think it's not as good as the top class.

I agree Delve is easy to do, at least the Plasm farming part. Only the 3 Fracture Boss fights favor large LS, because SE wanted to give something for that contingent. Everything else has begun being adopted by the player community. More and more people are getting their Delve KIs every day. Daemon has made exhaustive threads detailing how this can be accomplished, and there is a lot of good stuff in them.

[FrankReynolds]

Players join or make LS's that have predictable hours based on their individual play schedule. The vast majority of people who play this game know approximately what time of the day they expect to play.

Sure, so according to that theory, everyone should have beaten every delve NM at their regularly scheduled LS event by now and be regularly farming their airlixers and plasm. The ones who haven't beaten them and upgraded have not done so because... why again?


As for the content itself, we'll just have to see what they do. At the moment, we are still only talking about one event, Delve, which is made up of Plasm farming and Fracture Boss farming. Plasm farming has become somewhat popular, although admittedly somewhat exclusionary. Daemon has some good tips on how to defuse that.

Daemons guide is cool, but everyone can't play WHM and most would rather not. The unfortunate side effect of playing a job you hate like WHM just to get gear is that you inevitably end up either playing that job forever and never having a real use for the gear you were originally after or you end up standing around in town and never having a use for the gear you were originally after.

Here's how it works for Joe the Samurai.

Level WHM and gear it so you can get in events to get gear for your favorite job, SAM (I'm using Sam as an example. You can insert PUP, DNC, THF or a number of other unwanted / overpopulated jobs here)

Get gear for SAM

Try to enter PUGS.

Realize that everyone already has plenty of SAMS

Option A) Stand around forever with your flag up on SAM. (this sucks)
Option B) Start your own groups (most people think that this sucks too. We can't all be leaders.)
Option C) Join a linkshell where someone else will form groups and include you (You will be WHM forever. This also sucks)
Option D) You could start your own link shell, but Lets face it. Basic arithmetic says that's not a viable option for most people. There's only room for a few leaders since each leader needs 18-36 followers right?

When you make events that require far less people, people find forming groups to be far less of a chore. This pisses of the 5 guys on each server that are leading Boss killing linkshells, but makes the other several thousand people feel like they are a part of the game again.


Some people bypass plasm farming by just getting the KIs and then farming other content for money to buy Airlixirs off the AH. Fracture Boss farming is not as common, but I don't think it was intended to be. It was intended to be the most difficult content for top-tier LS's or inordinately skillful PUGs.

Great. I guess that's fair since they pay way more than everyone else and basically make the game fun for them just by being around...


Now you're being facetious. I never said all content in the game is still worthwhile. But in any event, not everything but delve is "relatively worthless." The gear and scrolls/abjurations in other events such as Abyssea, Voidwatch, NNI, Legion, etc. have not been rendered worthless. The weapons have been outclassed, as well as certain pieces of armor, but gear from those other events still have a central part in most players' gear sets.

You realize that people just paid $30 for an expansion and nothing you named besides delve was a result of that that $30 expansion right?


As stepping stones to harder content, of which more are said to be added directly in the next patch. I am not quoting dev notes that are wishful hopes. Matsui has already listed what will be in the coming patches.

SO in the next patch, they will add stuff that may be easy enough that in 4 months time, you might be able to earn some gear that will not be as good as the stuff that people had three weeks ago.

You just don't get it. Why would anyone want to work extra hard for <a day? a week? a month? More???> Just to get something that isn't quite as good as what another guy got in a few minutes? just because he doesn't have 17 friends who work the same schedule as him?


To answer your question, I've only done a few Skirmishes, but I've Bayld farmed and Wildskeeper killed before colonization rates tanked and the mobs became 5 hour fights. Some Bayld gear, Skirmish gear, or WKR gear is not trash. There are a couple of worthwhile pieces for my jobs that didn't get instantly outclassed with Delve. For example, the Orvail set is heavily skewed toward M.Acc. to help mages land certain debuffs or Stun harder mobs. I still use the Orvail Legs in my SCH stun set. This is the type of gear progression Matsui likely had in mind.

So after I do Reives for one day, then what?


I agree Delve is easy to do, at least the Plasm farming part. Only the 3 Fracture Boss fights favor large LS, because SE wanted to give something for that contingent. Everything else has begun being adopted by the player community. More and more people are getting their Delve KIs every day. Daemon has made exhaustive threads detailing how this can be accomplished, and there is a lot of good stuff in them.


I agree that Daemons guide is great. He did a great job and it was really nice of him. It will probably help a few people out. The problem is that none of it is fun at all. Most people would figure it out on their own if they had any interest.

[Mahoro]

Sure, so according to that theory, everyone should have beaten every delve NM at their regularly scheduled LS event by now and be regularly farming their airlixers and plasm. The ones who haven't beaten them and upgraded have not done so because... why again?

I'm not sure, but they are most likely holding regularly scheduled practice runs. The fights are quite challenging and take practice. Some groups schedule bead farming night as well.


When you make events that require far less people, people find forming groups to be far less of a chore. This pisses of the 5 guys on each server that are leading Boss killing linkshells, but makes the other several thousand people feel like they are a part of the game again.

Sure, and Matsui has already recognized that's a problem, and said he would try to rectify it.


Great. I guess that's fair since they pay way more than everyone else and basically make the game fun for them just by being around...

Please, no strawmen ;; Nobody is saying they pay more than anyone else. The rationale is that an MMO like this has to satisfy both hardcore and casual players in order to make money.


You realize that people just paid $30 for an expansion and nothing you named besides delve was a result of that that $30 expansion right?

Huh? I was responding to your comment, where you raised pre-expansion events and the notion that the new event invalidated all of that stuff. My response necessarily had to incorporate pre-expansion events. Please stay on track ><


You just don't get it. Why would anyone want to work extra hard for <a day? a week? a month? More???> Just to get something that isn't quite as good as what another guy got in a few minutes? just because he doesn't have 17 friends who work the same schedule as him?

I think, but I'm not sure, that you are making a veiled reference to the new weapons outclassing RME. If that is so, here is where we agree. I don't think SE should have done what they did, adding new weapons that wholesale eclipsed items that took weeks or months to perfect. I think it's counterintuitive to have a weapon drop from a 45-minute fight that can beat a weapon like a Mythic that could take years to make. At best, if they wanted to ensure people played their expansion, they should have created a new Magian trial for each weapon, requiring X number of Delve items to upgrade to a "super" version that would be slightly better than Delve weapons.

If that isn't what you meant, it's a somewhat more complex answer. It's the same principle behind why some people are content to just cap their character to a certain extent and don't strive to perfect the min/maxing. I know some people who farmed easier content like Abyssea to complete their collection while knowing full well that there were other pieces of gear from more difficult events that eclipsed the Abyssea gear. Anyway, we'll see what the rewards are like for the new lowman events.


So after I do Reives for one day, then what?

You buy Bayld equipment and fight Wildskeepers (after they patch the silly Colonization thing).

[Demon6324236]

Here's how it works for Joe the Samurai.Here's how it worked for Justin the Red Mage.

Level BLM & DRK and get good gear for both since everyone needs Procs & DDs, but no one needs RDM.

Get RDM gear from Abyssea and VW.

Ask friends made along his way to help him get some out of the way gear he can not get himself or with a shout group.

Gear SCH for NNI.

Join NNI groups as SCH. Get Nares Cap and Nares Trews.

Join a Linkshell as a SCH for some rare specific events like ADL for money or Arch-Limbus.

Leave said Linkshell for not letting you come the job you want to that you have spent so much time getting well geared.

Join a new LS while making sure leaders know of your preference, while listing your other jobs as backups only.

That's where we are today, where I am happily in a linkshell who accepts me as a RDM and lets me come on my job.

That's my story of how my job, the job no one wanted, got geared and is now played as even after I was turned down from everything for so long. I had a very long time of having my job shunned, not allowed to come to anything on it because everyone thought it was useless. You know what is better about Joe? His job was good for something, he might get to pull it out time to time because literally every event needs a DD, but my job, not so much, I was left alone for years now and during my golden age I did not do any EG, or hardly anything in the game past leveling. So in the end, I have to say, I think my journey of playing multiple jobs getting gear for my RDM over the last couple years has paid off, and now I'm accepted on the job I want to play, not my stepping stones. Do you know what I do with linkshells that always refuse to let me come on the job I want, and always force me to go on a job I leveled only because I had no choice? I leave them. The minute anyone is in the situation Joe is in where he is forced to play a job he no longer wants to, they need to get up, and leave, after all nothing will change unless you do something about it, and leaving is the most direct and potent way to do so.

[Hawklaser]

I think, but I'm not sure, that you are making a veiled reference to the new weapons outclassing RME. If that is so, here is where we agree. I don't think SE should have done what they did, adding new weapons that wholesale eclipsed items that took weeks or months to perfect. At best, they should have created a new Magian trial and required X number of Delve items if they wanted to ensure people played their expansion.

If that isn't what you meant, it's a somewhat more complex answer. It's the same principle behind why some people are content to just cap their character to a certain extent and don't strive to perfect the min/maxing. I know some people who farmed easier content like Abyssea to complete their collection while knowing full well that there were other pieces of gear from more difficult events that eclipsed the Abyssea gear. Anyway, we'll see what the rewards are like for the new lowman events.

The RME thing is one of the big reasons right now I don't log in a whole lot and I don't even have one yet. That on top of being a returning player having left right around ACP, and came back just before SoA, created a bit of a gear problem for me. With RME being so wildly outclassed by the Delve weapons, it really kills off desire to work on obtaining a nice weapon. Prior to Delve, I was working on the OAT Lance, and Emp for Dragoon, as a stepping stone until could build a Relic or Mythic. That and when asking people for help frequently being told to ignore Emp. Armor and just get the Bayld ones, which are kinda ugly and don't have as appealing of bonus on them, makes it hard to stay motivated and playing. Yes, I understand not all pieces of Emp. are not the best, but they are good enough to start going after the better ones.

As to people not fully min/maxing a job, perhaps I can give some insight on that. For me, it usually was due to not wanting to farm for hours on end for marginal increases unless that was all that was left, especially if it was a piece of gear only one job could use. I still went for top of the line gear, but when looking at millions for something like 1 extra acc or attack, often there was some other piece that would be a better investment. That on top of the luck reliance on getting a lot of NM items, sometimes it becomes more of a hassle than its worth to min/max everything. That is not even getting into events that take multiple people to do. So often it boiled down to return on investment for me.

So, the outstripping of the big investment items currently kills a lot of motivation to work on anything for me, as that was one big thing besides the community the game used to have that kept me playing, and drew me back after longer breaks. It was rather nice knowing when I started investing in something like a Relic, it would still be up at the top later on. Never expected Relic or Mythic to stay as the very best forever, but due to the amount of investment needed to make them, they should stay relevant. Like if were to divide weapons up into letter ranks, similar to how skills are done, RME and any other significant investment weapons should always be A ranked weapons, sometimes they might be A-, or A+. As the amount of investment they took for some is not something to just toss aside at a whim, especially with as old as the game is.

So for now, I do agree with the OP that the expansion is currently failing. Not because of the content in it, but more due to the radical changes moving it to a more WoW like clone. As good number of people playing, have been fine with little vertical progression for a long time. Its like they used a sword when they needed to use a scalpel with starting these changes, as not inherently against them adding some vertical progression again, but when it comes in leaps and bounds it ends up shrinking the game because very quickly only the newest stuff becomes the only content worth doing. As this brings up the question of how long til we get an expansion similar to WoW's Cataclysm to re-invigorate all the old zones for both new and old players?

[Daemon]

Daemons guide is cool, but everyone can't play WHM and most would rather not.

Before I begin Frankie Im only using your comments to write mine out and in no way attacking you. This post is written out for everyone to read.

I just want to point out something. I never suggested anyone play WHM. Rather than list every single gear set, I only listed Orvail as an example of how Adoulin gear is powerful and relevant to Adoulin content rather than players skipping it trying to show up in delve gimped with Af3.

My guide is not complete and Ive been adding stuff on a daily basis, however I will go back and add more to the first post later when i have time.

Seekers of Adoulin is high level no? Then wouldn't common sense tell you that gear you obtain from Adoulin be made relevant for the zones that were implemented so you can explore the new areas easier? If it wasn't made for that purpose then it wouldn't be there in the first place. It would be under Auction House.

Whether you are playing DD or any job, I stated in my guide that Adoulin gear corrects the issue on Accuracy etc.

Ive noticed people try to make arguments with me when ive already included detailed answers and reasons for the tips i posted. You are clearly not reading over them carefully and It shows when you state things that contradicts the purpose of my advice written when i know i put the answer there for you.

My guide is not wiki, it's not meant for anyone to skip details or quickly glance at it and if its info you already know then this guide obviously wasn't made for you. Read over it carefully.



I agree Delve is easy to do, at least the Plasm farming part. Only the 3 Fracture Boss fights favor large LS, because SE wanted to give something for that contingent. Everything else has begun being adopted by the player community. More and more people are getting their Delve KIs every day. Daemon has made exhaustive threads detailing how this can be accomplished, and there is a lot of good stuff in them.

Thank you for seeing the true side of my guide and thanks for being supportive. Do know that i am reading over posts and seeing so many complaints that I know as fact are irrelevant because you are dealing with a person who has many years of experience in FFXI, have trained and learned many things that people dont know the answer to. Some of you may not like the answers i give you, but that doesnt change the fact that ive given you a solution to the problem. And im not the only person in game to have all this knowledge, Several Veteran players on my server even spoke with me about how nice i am for taking the time to do this for those who are still learning. And they too agree with all of my points and find that my guide can help.

Many of you complain that us high level players dont help anyone anymore. Some have even insisted and insulted me by slapping me with the title "Elitist" without even knowing me. Im giving you the most powerful tool beyond just 1 person helping you for 1 thing in game. Sacrificing almost all of my game time to help the entire community here on the forums. Im covering all the things that you need to know and have done by the time you reach to us who are out there playing end game content.

The difference compared to other sites and wiki, You dont need to find out at the moment and be lost not knowing what to do and waste time. Im showing you all of the things that matter and gathering them in 1 post rather than you be lost. Im also giving you clear walkthroughs on certain details to help you accomplish your goal the fastest way possible. And im being more than modest by responding to your questions to help you giving you way more attention than any dev or community rep has given all of you.

As for the Higher Tier Notorious Monsters, Several People are not listening. All other content is still relevant and needed in order to accomplish wins for these bosses.

Take for example Kurma, even with 500+ Enfeebling magic, +25 INT from INT Gain spell for having 500+ Enhancing, Delve weapon or gear with high Magic Accuracy, Spells still get resisted at about 99%(Note this is not 100% fact to everyone as your build, race or stats maybe different however the resist rate is extremely high). Therefore other jobs with Max Skills and certain abilities are combined to achieve the obstacle of getting resisted. But they too need to have those gear sets, and Maxed skills which Ive stressed so much in my guide already. I gave you the way. Its up to all of you to take the time and analyze my advice, use it, then once you have done everything ive written and if it doesnt work, then make aruguements with me that it didnt. Not because its not fun.

If i put up an article in my guide, it has a valuable purpose. Im not here to waste my time or anyone elses. Im just trying to help you learn the game beyond what some of you only want to see and its very narrowminded so far from the many comments ive read.

And devs most likely know this too and thats why you may feel you are being ignored by them because you cant argue with people who create a game and implement things knowing they have to test it out and make sure that there are no errors, and that there are ways to accomplish defeating the challenge they created before implementing it.

The devs can keep adding in content, make adjustments based on player reactions, but they cannot play the game for you and teach you how to win the challenge they set for you. Otherwise whats the point? The content is there, The items are there, its up to you people to decide if you want to team up and work together in obtaining whats needed. This is why I wrote out a detailed article on Networking. Seriously read it, the way you play the game will totally change if you follow it.

Its not that the content is irrelevant, Its that you people are making it irrelevant by giving up and spreading false information to others motivating and giving others reasons to believe you that it is all because you can't do it.

Again, my post is not directly attacking you or anyone on a personal level, but to those who dont want to see the brightside of things and listen to someone who is trying to help you overcome your problems, why are you still here then? RPG games are not meant to be easy. They are meant for you to study and learn new things, take time in achieving certain power. And yes you need to educate yourself on several topics that are the same things you learn in the real world and even in college.

I cant make the game fun for you, I can only show you how you can accomplish what you wanted to do faster, more effectively and save time however, there should not be any reason to ignore valuable information that can help you achieve power.

Several of you who refuse to listen or take the time to read my guide, follow it and to those who decide they want to come to my post and give me negative snap judgment remarks and poor excuses, you are only showing me that im doing way more things for you than you are doing for yourself, and i dont even know you.

Here is one example of why im pouring out my sweat and blood into this guide for you. I can deal up to 13k damage DDing with scholar doing selfskillchain darkness on Megamaw Mikey and everytime i have a good swarm of players spam checking to see my equipment yet they are not understanding why i can do it with the gear i have on. Im trying to show you how several small details that can add up to greater outcomes makes a difference so you can improve your WS and your character and start learning the true power of your jobs to the fulliest. If i had a magic wand that could give you all the power in a single wave I would but certain power requires alot of work. From gear thats implemented to knowledge of knowing what items, buffs, jobs to help you, and the way you build on top of that is how you reach these accomplishments.

For the time being yes Im only covering basics, but the "hidden" purpose you are not seeing throughout the entire guide is that im trying to teach you, advise you correctly, and help you on how to pay attention to small details because at the end when you follow these tips, the overall outcome of your power will be different than a person who only looked at a gear set posted on FFXIAH and think that just having that matters.

And if you do not take the time to even learn the basics down to every possible detail first, then you will never get it.

This is why when I saw the Dev say that these bosses can be defeated in 15 minutes with the proper gear, strategy, party setup and jobs that if you cant do it, you may need to go back and work on these things, I know exactly what they are talking about. Rather seeing defeat and learning from it and just ending it because you "Think" you can't, try looking at other peoples comments, read and learn from others who are trying to tell you its possible. We are not making these things up to give you some kind of false hope.

Friends? You cannot expect to join any party assuming that everyone in that party is your best friend. Its your job to make friends and get to know people on a personal level so you can do stuff together more frequently. Most of the parties you see are based on a circle of friends who already know each other in game or beyond the game. And this is one of the reasons why you are not getting invited. Again stressing it more than i should have to: READ MY NETWORKING GUIDE.

As for REM, they are still good and can serve different purposes allowing you to do different things that Delve weapons cannot. Whats blinding all of you is that you are so narrow minded on only seeing the damage and stats. And only caring how much damage you can do with a "Merit weaponskill."

Here is the perfect example of your narrowminded judgment.

Yagrush
(Club) All Races
DMG: 74 Delay: 267 Magic Accuracy +25
Enhances "Divine Veil" effect
Enhances "Divine Benison" effect III
"Mystic Boon"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Magic Acc.
Occasionally attacks twice or thrice
Lv. 99 WHM


Damage Per Second: 16.63
TP Per Hit: 7%
Enhances "Divine Veil" effect
Spells have the Divine Veil effect without Divine Seal being active.
Works on alliance members outside party.
Enhances "Divine Benison" effect III

Hidden Effect
Increases Mystic Boon damage by 30%.

Noticed the bold letters? Spells have the Divine Veil effect without Divine Seal Active?

What about the description under that? "Works on Alliance members outside party"

Just these 2 points alone makes this Mythic weapon worth getting.

Even mystic boon alone is powerful, yet you are given an increase of 30% more damage so you can gain more mp back. Do you really want to waste all that time making an accuracy path delve weapon when you can have this with +25 Magic Accuracy and other beneficial stats that offers more?Yeah sure Delve weapon can be earned faster, but then once you get this, you most likely wont even bother making the effort to quest anything else.

And when ever do you see a WHM get hired to DD?

Need i say more??


So for those of you saying REM is worthless, I just proved that your statement is irrelevant and misleading. And this is why earlier i said that your actions effect the entire community and once a negative idea floats in the air, people feed on to it like fire and then everyone starts assuming that these statements are fact, and now motivation of other players are ruined and thats why everyone is sitting in town bored all day fretting, complaining and harassing the devs over negative information that is not true only to serve yourself and others around you a purpose to not get anything done at all. While at the same time encouraging others to believe your false statements through /yell in town rather than be responsible and have respect to those who do not see your points as valid.


Now that ive shown you the importance of paying attention to small details, lets see you go back and re-observe the other items from different content and then come back and complain.

[Oddwaffle]

@Daemon: I think you are mistaken about REM. When people talk about REM, it has more to do with the items that damage dealers use rather than a mage REM. Mages can swap weapons as they are needed but DD can not do so. So, it doesn't really matter what kind of utility a weapon can do a DD. If you have another weapon that is vastly stronger in raw power then a DD will have to abandon their favorite weapon and go with the new weapon. You can easily see DD start equipping Delve weapons and less and less people are using REM. What's going on? As you said, REM should still be 'effective' but why aren't people using them?

Imagine you have to use only 1 weapon as a Whm and suppose that swapping weapons will prevent you from doing anything for 10sec. You will be split between using a cure potency weapon or sticking with yagrush. Would you still put all your efforts into making yagrush?

The problem isn't about how hard Delve is. It's about efforts and time and preference. SE doesn't make alternatives for Delve. There is no other option. Win Delve KI and battles or stay in your mog house. SE is trying to fix it by making Skirmish v2. Their mistake this time is making Skirmish v2 reward less powerful than Delve content. Let's face it, low-man content is all about luck. You either get the drop or you get nothing. SE has been trying to change that into a process that takes weeks or months (salvage, NNI) if you sort of failed to win the luck battle. However, since very few people doing Skirmish V1, it will be difficult to have people doing Skirmish v2. Why would people want to do Skirmish v2 when they can do something else and buy their KI/win on mega boss for better equipments?

Of course it would greatly depends on how easy it is to obtain your equipments in skirmish v2. However, considering how SE is setting this up, you will have to have certain sets of equipments from v1 and certainly some other equipments from other events before you can compete in Skirmish v2. What happen to people who doesn't want to join a large LS or alliance?

[Daemon]

@Daemon: I think you are mistaken about REM. When people talk about REM, it has more to do with the items that damage dealers use rather than a mage REM. Mages can swap weapons as they are needed but DD can not do so. So, it doesn't really matter what kind of utility a weapon can do a DD. If you have another weapon that is vastly stronger in raw power then a DD will have to abandon their favorite weapon and go with the new weapon. You can easily see DD start equipping Delve weapons and less and less people are using REM. What's going on? As you said, REM should still be 'effective' but why aren't people using them?

Imagine you have to use only 1 weapon as a Whm and suppose that swapping weapons will prevent you from doing anything for 10sec. You will be split between using a cure potency weapon or sticking with yagrush. Would you still put all your efforts into making yagrush?

The problem isn't about how hard Delve is. It's about efforts and time and preference. SE doesn't make alternatives for Delve. There is no other option. Win Delve KI and battles or stay in your mog house. SE is trying to fix it by making Skirmish v2. Their mistake this time is making Skirmish v2 reward less powerful than Delve content. Let's face it, low-man content is all about luck. You either get the drop or you get nothing. SE has been trying to change that into a process that takes weeks or months (salvage, NNI) if you sort of failed to win the luck battle. However, since very few people doing Skirmish V1, it will be difficult to have people doing Skirmish v2. Why would people want to do Skirmish v2 when they can do something else and buy their KI/win on mega boss for better equipments?

Of course it would greatly depends on how easy it is to obtain your equipments in skirmish v2. However, considering how SE is setting this up, you will have to have certain sets of equipments from v1 and certainly some other equipments from other events before you can compete in Skirmish v2. What happen to people who doesn't want to join a large LS or alliance?

My point about REM, is that people need to becareful when making posts and say REM as if its every single item.. if DD have something to complain about they should be stating the name of the item and talking about that one item instead of generalizing because a good portion of players base belief on hearsay especially to players who dont even own an REM.

Imagine how many people who were thinking about making one now have the belief that its worthless because so many people say it that way?

And its not just REM, its other things like people saying "You need a delve weapon to earn a delve weapon"

You cannot seperate people who have delve weapons completely from people who don't have them, thats like saying No person who owns a delve weapon will ever help us. That includes all other things, which i dont see how it would be impossible to ask a friend with a delve weapon to help you achieve certain goals from older content. In fact I see that as a benefit in saving time by completing your objective faster.

So no REM people helped those who didnt have REM for anything at all? Im pretty sure people with such powerful items would want to show off to others who dont have it. Its a power ego thing.

SE has already stated that they will upgrade REM in the near future, yet you still see people in town shouting how pointless and worthless it is to even make one because delve weapons are better... This again is misleading...

Rather than see the bright side of things, negativity is floating across the entire game and giving people no motivation to do stuff.. I myself almost fell into believing the majority of what others were saying until i started writing out the guide and taking a closer look at some of the complaints to help answer those needing a solution.

Yeah Ive seen comments about how Sky, Legion and all other content is now irrelevant.. So this is why i made that entire post.

And my main example from that is people need to take a closer look before they start spreading false information.

As for your example us mages do infact have to switch weapons such as scholar who uses Adloquium for TP regain in order to use Hvelgamir "Myrkr". Plenitas Virga might be used for stunners who dont have EMP Thunder path magian staff due to having some Haste with Arbuda Grip. We also switch over to Terra staff for pdt and Magian for Curepotency, Sky Kirin pole for Augmented Enhancing +10-12 for embrava, theres staff for mp recovery, Zammzummin staff for landing gravity, Soothsayer for MAB which btw Shattersoul and Omniscience could play a good role in Delve T5 strategic battles.

DD use tp for Damage, mages use tp for mp which is the reason to keep those DD alive.. For Yagrush, well you need TP to deal damage in order to use Mystic boon to recover MP.

Mages are not as simple as people think, I believe we have way more gear sets than any DD. Unless you are partying with a mage who knows nothing about the basics of many of the things ive written in my guide in General Discussions titled "Invitation to Plasm Farming"

You really should read my guide on Networking also. Because most likely if you make friends with the right people, they can help you participate in events with them.

Ive invited several of my friends on my list to do stuff on many occassions as first priortiy why? Because they are people i know personally and have done stuff together doing other events. So when Adoulin expansion was first launched we all messaged each other and made a group to explore the content together..

This is the biggest problem in FFXI and in many games, you cannot expect anyone to know you and you cannot expect them to invite you unless you build a friendship with people on a personal level.

Because if you click well while doing static events such as assault together and enjoyed the time partying with that person to the point where you feel like he/she such a cool person to hang out with. Im sure you will want to do other stuff in game as well.

Observing your example of taking 10 seconds switching sounds like you dont use macros... You can switch gear very quickly and do you know how powerful Yagrush is? >.>

I made skadi boots in few days... How is this based only on luck? Ive also stated that i dont believe in luck, I believe in consistency and there are other factors i could spend all day writing to you but its way to complicated to go over. Are you going with a Thief? If everyone could get every single rare in 1 drop, then Im sure no one would be left on the server anymore playing because there would be no goals to further accomplish..

Yeah took me 3 months to get Tocis armor, and Ive yet to get 1 coruscanti after 2k tries... But then im not focused on just 1 item. I try my luck at several items and hope of obtaining atleast 1 of the items i want on my list...


If you only focus on 1 item, then that is only going to leave you with dissapointment.

[Mahoro]

However, since very few people doing Skirmish V1, it will be difficult to have people doing Skirmish v2. Why would people want to do Skirmish v2 when they can do something else and buy their KI/win on mega boss for better equipments?

Of course it would greatly depends on how easy it is to obtain your equipments in skirmish v2. However, considering how SE is setting this up, you will have to have certain sets of equipments from v1 and certainly some other equipments from other events before you can compete in Skirmish v2. What happen to people who doesn't want to join a large LS or alliance?

They cap out as best they can on lowman events. For example, in order to obtain Voidwatch equipment, you had to join an alliance. If a particular player does not wish to join any alliance, then certain content will be inaccessible. There has been 18-man content since close to the launch of this game a decade ago. This aspect of the game is not new. It is like asking why the sky is blue.

[Daemon]

Why would people want to do Skirmish v2 when they can do something else and buy their KI/win on mega boss for better equipments?

Actually i think i read somewhere that Skirmish weapons "Could" possibly outstat REM with the right augments therefore this is one optional reason why people would want to do this over REM since those quests can take longer due hardcore restrictions. Like Dyna is limited to once per day, Emp have Several NM phases, and Mythic lets not even go there lol... As if collecting 30k alex is not hardcore enough....

[Hawklaser]

SE has already stated that they will upgrade REM in the near future, yet you still see people in town shouting how pointless and worthless it is to even make one because delve weapons are better... This again is misleading...


It's one thing for SE to say they are going to do something, and them actually doing it. Cait Sith is a great example of this. So I would not be surprised if a lot of people not wanting to work on making an RME right now have taken a stance similar to me. Which is the RME update is not to be counted on until it shows up in an actual patch announcement like what is found here. http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/10563/detail.html

Coupled with the fact they have hinted at there is going to be higher content levels released, and they do not want to do multiple updates to RME, makes it hard to justify investing heavily in one until have a better idea of where they are going to end up.

[Alpheus]

Yeah even though SE announced a number of things I still don't give them credit cuz well they say a lot of things. And they have only themselves to blame cuz this is the reputation and impression they leave their playerbase with.

[Daemon]

It's one thing for SE to say they are going to do something, and them actually doing it. Cait Sith is a great example of this. So I would not be surprised if a lot of people not wanting to work on making an RME right now have taken a stance similar to me. Which is the RME update is not to be counted on until it shows up in an actual patch announcement like what is found here. http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/10563/detail.html

Coupled with the fact they have hinted at there is going to be higher content levels released, and they do not want to do multiple updates to RME, makes it hard to justify investing heavily in one until have a better idea of where they are going to end up.

SE didn't have almost the majority of the player base rage quit in angry, upset, dissapointed, Arms in the air flailing, Fat lady almost sing, Recorded and put on Americas unsoved mysteries with exclusive reruns, brought up on Judge Judy, Jerry Springer and The tonight show, oh and I think Ms Swan made a debut comeback episode on Mad TV for this one special occassion yu nooo? Teh meta ting? It looky like um.. Yu kno ok... Wut u smilin fo smiley boi??
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31485-New-weapons-with-higher-base-damage-then-relics

Compared to the Avatar topic you brought up.

[Hawklaser]

SE didn't have almost the majority of the player base rage quit in angry, upset, dissapointed, Arms in the air flailing, Fat lady almost sing, Recorded and put on Americas unsoved mysteries with exclusive reruns, brought up on Judge Judy, Jerry Springer and The tonight show, oh and I think Ms Swan made a debut comeback episode on Mad TV for this one special occassion yu nooo? Teh meta ting? It looky like um.. Yu kno ok... Wut u smilin fo smiley boi??
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31485-New-weapons-with-higher-base-damage-then-relics

Compared to the Avatar topic you brought up.

I understand more are upset about RME than Cait Sith, the point was SE has been developing a track record of not following through with what they say on a timely basis. Which makes it hard to count on something like RME updates coming at a time when they are needed instead of being too late to really matter any more.

[Schrute]

This expansion is not failing... Low man groups and pick up groups are failing. I low man'd everything but legion, and VW could be done shout groups and I was happy. I joined a linkshell because the success rate of clearing a delve fracture is much higher when you go and practice with a group, work out strats and execute! cant have great success rates with random shout groups.
This new expansion and delve brought back strategy to the game and guess what jobs are vital... almost all of them INCLDING RDM and GEO! I personally play rdm and love it and the fact that I have taken the time to make the ToM magic acc staves and took pride in my gear, I am a viable asset to the linkshell's delve runs.

Dispelling kurma 100% and silencing tojil, paralyzing, slow blind, all debuffs contribute so much! long hastes for my schollars that are stunning, refreshes for my pld and my GEOS!

Take pride in all ur jobs you play, gear them as best and join a linkshell. Practice against nms and go for the win! teamwork guys!

Delve is Amazingly fun! I am excited for more delve!

[Karah]

This expansion is not failing... Low man groups and pick up groups are failing. I low man'd everything but legion, and VW could be done shout groups and I was happy. I joined a linkshell because the success rate of clearing a delve fracture is much higher when you go and practice with a group, work out strats and execute! cant have great success rates with random shout groups.
This new expansion and delve brought back strategy to the game and guess what jobs are vital... almost all of them INCLDING RDM and GEO! I personally play rdm and love it and the fact that I have taken the time to make the ToM magic acc staves and took pride in my gear, I am a viable asset to the linkshell's delve runs.

Dispelling kurma 100% and silencing tojil, paralyzing, slow blind, all debuffs contribute so much! long hastes for my schollars that are stunning, refreshes for my pld and my GEOS!

Take pride in all ur jobs you play, gear them as best and join a linkshell. Practice against nms and go for the win! teamwork guys!

Delve is Amazingly fun! I am excited for more delve!


Are you high? What jobs are vital... dood you're either completely and utterly full of shit, or stoned out of your mind.

All linkshell content blows. This isn't 2005 anymore.

[Mahoro]

Live and let live.

[Schrute]

linkshell stuff doesn't blow and u are right it isn't 2005 anymore we don't have to wait 4 days for chance at hq king pop, we don't have to be the last person in an ls to get a drop from a boss because we are given ki and can purchase all the drops. I'm not high, lots of jobs are vital, like I said rdm and geo are vital jobs. I see a lot of Q.Q'ing and I am just offering a solution. I know it's lazy of me to put the challenge on us forgive me. If you don't like ls content still lots of other stuff out there to do which has been mentioned in this thread, and GO DO THAT.

[Damane]

Are you high? What jobs are vital... dood you're either completely and utterly full of shit, or stoned out of your mind.

All linkshell content blows. This isn't 2005 anymore.

Vital jobs in delve:
MNK SCH GEO WHM RDM BRD COR SAM DRK DRG PLD RNG

thats more then 50% of the jobs vital in one event, and after the next update prolly more

and linkshell events dont blow, Delve is one of the most intense and best experiences I have had in a long time in FFXI. 5 NMs + boss in 1 run are very exciting and dont leave much room open for mistakes, so it is all about teamplay and each person knowing their shit.

People that bitch at delve are:
1. Lost omg their precious shiney because delve destroyed them (read REM), I can understand Mythic owners bitching, but Relic and empy owners should shut up, like I did shut up when Empys destroyed relics back then and when Dynamis became soloable.
2. People that dont want to play other jobs more Vital, refuse to lvl other jobs more vital its your own fault.
3. People that dont know how to gear their jobs properly
4. People that want the easy way out
5. People that lack skill.
6. People that want to play constantly ALL the time solo in an MMO. hint its called MMO!!!

[Karah]

I actually don't fit into any of those categories, and I loathe delve.

I'm a little annoyed that RME lost their value, but it's due to the fact that I have 20 of them, not Just 1 or 2.

I loathe delve because I don't want to do an event that REQUIRES 18 people. There are not 18 people "good enough" to win 18 man content, unless they form a linkshell. I do not want to join a linkshell.

Oh and, those "vital" jobs listed, MNK WHM SCH BRD COR DRK (GEO)

The rest are "acceptable" the sch can enfeeble as well as the rdm, drg's angon is not vital, its nice to have to speed things up. One could argue that tomahawk would probably be better, as it would change the damage resistances... RNG is "optional". PLD is optional also.

Significantly less than 50%.

[Mahoro]

You are stretching.

The SCH's are busy doing other things such as Stunning, and there is no substitute for a decked out enfeebling RDM on some of these mobs. Mura SAM is actually a vital part of most strategies now.

You say DRG's Angon is not vital and PLD is optional. However, by your own admission, if they were substituted by WAR or another job, then that would not decrease the percentage of vital jobs to "[s]ignificantly less than 50%." It would still hover close to 50%, if not more.

[Hayward]

50% of jobs is wholly unacceptable. These Developers need to increase Delve's accessibility, which I hope they're in the process of doing, and the playerbase need to start seeing beyond BG-approved bandwagon jobs/gear. If things keep up the way it is, August 27 can't come fast enough and the servers can't close soon enough.

[Mahoro]

I would love to see SMN, BST, PUP, DNC, etc. in Delve. They aren't just excluded from Delve these days; they're excluded from most content ;;

[Raksha]

They aren't just excluded from Delve these days; they're excluded from most content (i.e. delve) ;;


Fixed that for you!

[Damane]

50% of jobs is wholly unacceptable. These Developers need to increase Delve's accessibility, which I hope they're in the process of doing, and the playerbase need to start seeing beyond BG-approved bandwagon jobs/gear. If things keep up the way it is, August 27 can't come fast enough and the servers can't close soon enough.

its absolutly acceptable, you have a buttong called "Change Job". seriously gearing 4-5 jobs to a very good level should be common today...

and if you dont want to play any of the jobs listed its your own fault. The possibility is there you just need to work on it.

[Umichi]

so people who don't enjoy playing those jobs have to suffer? is the expectation in this game put upon me is to magically have all jobs 99 and if i don't want to play the jobs wanted by a select group of players who play this game I should be excluded from it?

[Damane]

I actually don't fit into any of those categories, and I loathe delve.

I'm a little annoyed that RME lost their value, but it's due to the fact that I have 20 of them, not Just 1 or 2.

I loathe delve because I don't want to do an event that REQUIRES 18 people. There are not 18 people "good enough" to win 18 man content, unless they form a linkshell. I do not want to join a linkshell.

Oh and, those "vital" jobs listed, MNK WHM SCH BRD COR DRK (GEO)

The rest are "acceptable" the sch can enfeeble as well as the rdm, drg's angon is not vital, its nice to have to speed things up. One could argue that tomahawk would probably be better, as it would change the damage resistances... RNG is "optional". PLD is optional also.

Significantly less than 50%.


1. DRG's Angon is actually VERY Vital in those fights, especially on tojil with its AoE attack down aura, and the job is very good when the delve bosses enter their piercing weakness stage point.
2. Tomahawk does shit on the different damage taken stages on bosses, tested, doesnt pan out because its not a mob specific jobtrait of dmg resistance (like piercing to undead) but a phase the mob enters.
3. RNG isnt needed in every run, but its quiet welcoem fro the bee megaboss and for new megabosses. the RNG method is the safest method to get a grasp at whats going on and win fights when you do a beaded run, including a PLD.
4. a PLD can be quiet handy to hold multiple Nms or to sack the entire path to the megaboss + adds a safety net. granted we do that with sleeps and leave the sacking to a BRD. Neverthless the possibility is there.
5. SAM is very vital in foret the hennetiel preNMs and actually also very good on the delve megabosses, but both work SAM and DRK. Situational one is better then the other.

oh and I am sure BLU can pick the pace too once the 1 hander update hits.


and just btw:
you are the category 3 People: you want the easy way out because 18 man content is just sooooo stressfull for you ._., because you know joining endgame linkshells, contributing to teamplay, contributing to a linkshell etc etc is against your BST mentality of playing solo constantly.

[Damane]

so people who don't enjoy playing those jobs have to suffer? is the expectation in this game put upon me is to magically have all jobs 99 and if i don't want to play the jobs wanted by a select group of players who play this game I should be excluded from it?

1. I doint say to get all jobs to 99
2. you will probably be fine if you have 2 of those 11+ jobs I listed at an exeptional state geared and skilled
3. YOUR choice, do it or leave it and focus on other content
or 4. OMG try to setup your own strategys with other jobs!

You cant expect this challenging (not ridiculusly omfg unfair like prenerf legion) fights/mechanics to be designed around ALL jobs, that is just not possible.

[Castoth]

'Do it or leave it'. From the looks of things, a decent number are choosing the latter. There are serious, potentially fatal, flaws with the new direction Square is taking this game. To pretend they don't exist, will continue to make this issue far worse. I wouldn't be surprised to even see more server merges in the near term at this rate, which is not a good thing in terms of game longevity.

[Sparthos]

I think people are frankly being disingenuous when they say that "well, just level a job that's ideal at this event and you'll be fine!" because well... that statement is complete bullshit.

Firstly, unless you're going GEO or COR, you're going to need to gear out your ass in order to compete in Delve. That means getting pieces from various content that may/may not be accessible anymore. See, if you played XI for a while you're fine because well you've been doing things like NNI, SalvageII, Legion or Voidwatch to keep jobs up to date but trying to do those things right now proves to be quite difficult when all that matters is Delve.

Matsui envisioned people going back to gear for the "ultimate event" but as it stands you're either ready or stuck.

For instance, people often cite Ranger as being the easy way to clear this event... if you can gather 99 Relic Rangers decked with ideal sets. It is disingenuous to make it seem like RNG is the ezpz mode when you need ultimate weapons which take months to put together unless you happen to be sitting on piles of cash. Grabbing 4-5 Sureshot/Spelogean RNGs is a sure-fire way to grab hate and wipe.

Samurai needs Murasamemaru from Uptala to ignore those damage resistant mobs like Craklaw and Krabi which is great if you managed to get one of those swords way back when Uptala was being spammed constantly. With the death of VWNM, so has the pool of available pulse cells to get this weapon.

PLD needs Brochain / Aegis to be considered which is months of prepwork.

BRDs ideally have Ghorn and Daurdablas with 4 song access which requires HMPs / Riftcinder which has dried up in recent months.

etc. etc.

[Damane]

I think people are frankly being disingenuous when they say that "well, just level a job that's ideal at this event and you'll be fine!" because well... that statement is complete bullshit.

Firstly, unless you're going GEO or COR, you're going to need to gear out your ass in order to compete in Delve. That means getting pieces from various content that may/may not be accessible anymore. See, if you played XI for a while you're fine because well you've been doing things like NNI, SalvageII, Legion or Voidwatch to keep jobs up to date but trying to do those things right now proves to be quite difficult when all that matters is Delve.

Matsui envisioned people going back to gear for the "ultimate event" but as it stands you're either ready or stuck.

For instance, people often cite Ranger as being the easy way to clear this event... if you can gather 99 Relic Rangers decked with ideal sets. It is disingenuous to make it seem like RNG is the ezpz mode when you need ultimate weapons which take months to put together unless you happen to be sitting on piles of cash. Grabbing 4-5 Sureshot/Spelogean RNGs is a sure-fire way to grab hate and wipe.

Samurai needs Murasamemaru from Uptala to ignore those damage resistant mobs like Craklaw and Krabi which is great if you managed to get one of those swords way back when Uptala was being spammed constantly. With the death of VWNM, so has the pool of available pulse cells to get this weapon.

PLD needs Brochain / Aegis to be considered which is months of prepwork.

BRDs ideally have Ghorn and Daurdablas with 4 song access which requires HMPs / Riftcinder which has dried up in recent months.

etc. etc.

well then get to work and gather your friends. People had plenty of time the last 3 years to get 4-5 jobs up to an acceptable level of gearing.

i have kept 5 of my jobs constantly geared well and accomodate to what was available, GEO just joined the rank of my 6. job after adoulins release. It was and is doable.

[detlef]

so people who don't enjoy playing those jobs have to suffer? is the expectation in this game put upon me is to magically have all jobs 99 and if i don't want to play the jobs wanted by a select group of players who play this game I should be excluded from it?You play DRG. Right now you're wanted for the toughest content. The problem is that you're probably not good enough to be invited because you don't know what you're doing.

[Karah]

and just btw:
you are the category 3 People: you want the easy way out because 18 man content is just sooooo stressfull for you ._., because you know joining endgame linkshells, contributing to teamplay, contributing to a linkshell etc etc is against your BST mentality of playing solo constantly.

I don't want to do it with them, not because I don't want to, but because they're incapable of doing it, there is a sizeable difference between the 2 scenarios.

I would rather hang from a rusty hook by my eye lids than waste hour after hour after hour watching scrub mnks (with oatixur) fail to properly count to 7 and kill the matamata (true story, multiple times).

Now If I could clone myself. 17x and play all 18 jobs MYSELF, so I know I'm playing with a reliable person, yeah, I might enjoy 18 man content. But until that day, 18 man content is BULLSHIT. Plain and simple.

[Alpheus]

well then get to work and gather your friends. People had plenty of time the last 3 years to get 4-5 jobs up to an acceptable level of gearing.


....

So cram 3 years worth of events in time to do Delve while Delve is still current? Are you insane? And GEO and RUN are a gimmie for players like you and me who have kept current these past 3 years we're 15/15 in NNI so most of the fun pieces from there are taken care of there's no AF yet so we haven't needed to run around doing that stuff on top of random VW bodies or gear we got while that event was still popping.

So yes I agree with Sparthos there is a slight hint of a disingenuous tone. You cant go from stuck to ready to do Delve with 5 other people who are in the same boat as you AND still be ready to jump into a group in a week from now (as an example). It might be possible if it was 1 person getting geared by 5 other established players (like say a buddy came back from break or w/e) but your whole "Well just go wrangle some friends and lets get this done" advice while still the correct piece of advice comes with the caveat: "You probably won't finish in time by August when Tojil and Co become Old Hat."

That said I do agree with you, yours is the correct answer but it has its downsides, it isn't applicable to everyone because I assume once the time required is mentioned most people will become demotivated and deflated. Matsui and company would have to make serious adjustments (in some cases again) to make VW and salvage and NNI more "crammable" by players who are stuck: make VW lowmannable for drops and for salvage and NNI remove the cooldowns on entry. If Matsui is serious about having 10 years worth of content be the foundation for Delve then changes have to be made where all that is spammable and the fun part is that they don't have the limitations they did back when they first made Neo-Dyna.

They had to balance making it accessible while not crashing the currency demand market cuz Relics and the like were still in vogue and they repeated that balanced approach with Salvage cuz again they didnt want a flood of Alex. Now that we have confirmation that Delve weapons will have the last laugh (remember he said RMEs will get only 1 mulligan and then that's it) then who gives a crap if you can spam Salvage multiple times a day or what have you.

So for the players who are stuck it's a matter of convenience rather than difficulty dealing with content that has many restrictions in place for reasons that have now been rendered void.