The PERFECT opportunity to fix mage R/M/E

[Pebe]

This has probably been said elsewhere, so I will keep this short:

The R/M/E changes that will occur soon is the perfect opportunity for SE to reevaluate the mage end game weapons. Considering that we will have the elemental magic changes before the R/M/E changes go into effect, if I'm not mistaken, then there should be no problem balancing these weapons around these new changes. In the current state of magic damage in this game, the amount of damage one can deal comes nowhere close to the damage a DD can put out. This was already starting to become the case at lvl 99 and with the new delve boss content, there is now no comparison once delve boss weapons come into play.

When I was looking over your elemental magic changes, I was quite disheartened that the max base damage(Thunder) was unchanged. I think it was a great idea to make the other elements closer to the potency of thunder, but in all honesty, I believe their should have been a base damage increase across the board that goes higher than the current thunder base damage to keep up with DDs who are getting weapons double the base damage they had before. To further compound upon this problem, the delve boss blm craftable weapon that you did release is beaten by its skirmish counterpart, which barely beats the magian weapons. But now lets compare says the mnk delve boss weapon Oaxitur to the lvl 99 elemental magian weapons for mnk... Oaxitur are light years ahead, same with the other DD jobs. So DDs get weapons that trash everything ever made for them, while mages get weapons that barely beat, depending on the situations, weapons that have been out for two years.... there is a slight hint of unfairness here...

All I am asking, is that when you review the mage R/M/E weapons, please give us weapons that will make us want to get them. Make us mages excited to continue playing mages to make these weapons. Please, for the love of Altana, do not make our weapons barely beat content lvl 90 weapons.... Our content lvl 120 staff is garbage(BLM/SCH), so please do not base your changes around that... please....

Edit: Grammar mistakes

[Taint2]

Big +1 for this.

[Byrth]

Liked, current mage RMEs are insultingly bad, etc.

However: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/110460-DPS-Spreadsheets?p=5759660&viewfull=1#post5759660

Motenten has concluded that augmented Soothsayer Staff / Lehbrailgs beat magian damage staves for many of the new spells. If the Mage RMEs with MAB get bumped up, they'll likely surpass the magian damage staves too as nuking weapons. I'm not saying this justifies atrocities like Claustrum, but I'm just pointing out that mythics may be "saved" with fairly minor changes.

[Pebe]

Yes but I don't want weapons to barely surpass lvl 90 content weapons when they are supposed to me item lvl 115+ etc... In order for magic damage to be up to par once again with physical dealing DDs, we need as much, if not more, of a boost than they get in their new weapons.

Edit: I've read Motenten's post, I was referring to the craftable staff from delve boss materials.

[Catmato]

I don't understand. Mjollnir is great.

[Svens]

I would like it if they added in some of the newer effects or make new ones that would fit for the jobs when they do update them such as:
Murgleis: Occ. maximizes magic accuracy (maybe even 100% to make it not completely lol), enfeebling/enhancing magic +++, augments enspells
Laevateinn: Occ. negates elemental magic MP cost, all elemental affinity: damage +X, elemental magic skill +++
Nirvana: Augments avatars, negates perp. MP cost., summoning magic skill +++
Tupsimati: Auto-Iridescence I-V (built in weather obi and increasing benefits from weather), Weather: Occ. ignores magic evasion/defense/mdt

While over the top, we've seen the potential jump DD jobs can expect, so hopefully mages can expect the same. Of course, I'm keeping expectations low and only expecting an increase to dmg/matk/macc sadly.

(Also, while not mage-related, wouldn't mind seeing Nagi get Silent blow+++ to also give it something unique/powerful)

[Pebe]

I'm not sure how effective it would be, but a built in obi with a higher tier of iridesence on the staff would make me jump for joy at my free inventory spaces (which will be filled instantly with more stuff I can't carry now >.>)

[Alhanelem]

Liked, current mage RMEs are insultingly bad, etc.

However: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/110460-DPS-Spreadsheets?p=5759660&viewfull=1#post5759660

Motenten has concluded that augmented Soothsayer Staff / Lehbrailgs beat magian damage staves for many of the new spells. If the Mage RMEs with MAB get bumped up, they'll likely surpass the magian damage staves too as nuking weapons. I'm not saying this justifies atrocities like Claustrum, but I'm just pointing out that mythics may be "saved" with fairly minor changes.Those weapons are not "atrocities", they simply weren't designed for the purpose you have in mind.

Hvergelmir upgraded my (original) main job when basically nothing else could.

The ones that were actually designed with casting in mind are the atrocities, because they don't do those jobs better than very easily obtainable weapons. Thus, they are far less useful than claustrum or hrvelgimir.

ANYWAY... I'm not really holding my breath on this one. I'm only expecting their DMG and amount of each existing stat to go up- I don't expect any new stats at all, but I guess I'm leaving room for SE to suprise me.

[Pebe]

Claustrum is an atrocity.... Hvergelmir is not. Hvergelmir is not because it has a purpose, and that purpose is mp restoration and it does it wonderfully. (Also wipes debuffs as an added bonus!) Claustrum's purpose was meleeing and it offers NOTHING to solve the innate problems of mage meleeing (you could argue the attack down effect from GoT, but thats neglible). For instance, Apocalypse gaves drks survivability, annihilator/yochi gave rngs hate management. Claustrum gives nothing that addresses a mage's problems while meleeing.

[Tanama]

I support these posts. Hopefully, Matsui and the dev team take note.

[Alhanelem]

Claustrum is an atrocity.... Hvergelmir is not. Hvergelmir is not because it has a purpose, and that purpose is mp restoration and it does it wonderfully. (Also wipes debuffs as an added bonus!) Claustrum's purpose was meleeing and it offers NOTHING to solve the innate problems of mage meleeing (you could argue the attack down effect from GoT, but thats neglible). For instance, Apocalypse gaves drks survivability, annihilator/yochi gave rngs hate management. Claustrum gives nothing that addresses a mage's problems while meleeing.
Neither are atrocities. Both have a purpose, and that purpose is melee damage. On Summoner, this means more damage after it is impossible to get more damage out of your avatars in any way. Does it drastically change anything? Not really. But it's still an upgrade and it's still useful if you're into that type of thing.

The relic weapons were created to be the best WEAPON weapons in their classes. Not the best stat sticks in their classes. And ignoring pre-upgrade comparisons to delve weapons, you can't really say that Claustrum doesn't do that job.

Just because it doesn't do what you personally want it to do, doesn't make it an "atrocity." It's like calling a coffee maker an atrocity because it doesn't make toast. Maybe you want toast, not coffee, but that doesn't mean the coffee maker isn't good at making coffee.

I know that posts bashing the mage relics will get 893457 likes and those that know that some of them do have their uses won't get any, but I'm posting it anyway.

Now the Mythic mage weapons were made to be more like stat sticks but they failed in that regard because there were already existing stat sticks that were far superior. The Emp and Relic weapons on the other hand aren't trying to be stat sticks- of course they won't look good if you judge them as if they were.

(And yes, I know the current Audolin weapons are currently superior in this regard, but that will very likely change when the RME upgrades are implemented)

[Pebe]

Let me start by saying this, I have a Claustrum, I know what it can do. I know that it was the highest dps staff for meleeing for blm and smn. What I am trying to say is that this is not enough. There are innate problems with mage meleeing to begin with. Claustrum is a fine low man/solo toy for smn where you can put out some decent shattersoul numbers to DC-T mobs. But on any large scale content that is or was(when they were released) worth a damn, not only could you barely even hit the mob with our craptastic melee gear options, but also you became a liability. The amount of damage you could deal while meleeing is not worth the focus of the support jobs. But like i said, for smn, Claustrum still HAD a place. Then they released Hvergelmir, which pretty much destroyed any usefulness Claustrum had. Hvergelmir is obviously another melee staff, but not only is it a melee staff, its an extremely potent mp regeneration tool. It stole the purpose of Gates of Tatarus aftermath and enhanced it. Speaking of Gates of tartarus, don't even try to defend this ws. It is an abomination. Extremely low base damage on this weaponskill, horrible modifiers, horrible aftermath, its ONLY saving grace is its attack- effect.

The above paragraph was considering Claustrum in the view of smn. Looking at it from a BLM's perspective is even worse. First of all, BLM has less skill than SMN, so BLM staff meleeing is even more craptastic. However, we don't even need to consider BLM meleeing because it is obvious that any time a BLM spends meleeing could be better used deal many times more magic damage. The only reason SMN meleeing has a place is because SMNs has 45 second downtime between their BPs when they have nothing better to do. An inherent job flaw should not be the reason that you say Claustrum has a place... even though it doesn't really <.<

[Pebe]

Perhaps I should also clarify, that keeping the Claustrum the end all, be all melee staff is perfectly fine. Just make so that having Claustrum makes meleeing and using Gates of Tartarus worth it.

Edit: I apologize if the above post comes off as aggressive. I'm just really passionate about the current state of mage weapons, in light of the HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGEEEEEEEE boost DD weapons received, vs the craptastic boost we received in our weapons.

[Alhanelem]

What I am trying to say is that this is not enough. There are innate problems with mage meleeing to begin with.The problem is the fact that they (or more specifically SMN) need to. SMN is chained down by a timer, basically only being able to do damage or support people every 45 seconds to a minute, which is an eternity in today's game, and avatar melee is a joke. Now mind you, I don't see any reason why these weapons can't keep their current stats AND have useful bonuses, but here in Situationalland, it seems we're not allowed to have things that are useful at all times. As pathetic as it is and how risky it can be, it's the only way to get more out of the job at the present time once you already have everything you need. Why do some of us try so hard in this regard? Because we want / wish for summoner to be as powerful as its reputaiton in the FF series. Unfortunately, SMN has ended up paling in comparison to most other things except in events where throwing pets at things is the easiest way to win.

SE took a one size fits all approach to designing the relic weapons. Unfortunately, they seem unwilling to change that after the fact.

I would be inclined to agree that mages didn't really get any big upgrades out of the expansion like DDs did and they definitely need to do something to close the gap. All I'm saying is it's unrealistic to expect the RME weapons to be changed to fill that gap. If anything happens at all, it will be new gear, not changes to old gear.

(Note: I did abandon an effort to get Claustrum when Hvrgelmir came out even after having traded some currency already)

[Rekin]

SE took a one size fits all approach to designing the relic weapons. Unfortunately, they seem unwilling to change that after the fact.


This is perhaps the worst idea on their half ever. Back at 75 no one really blinked an eye but once they introduced new "legendary" class weapons they really should have went back and looked at exactly what each weapon did for their designated jobs. But what do I know? I just play lots of games.

[Pebe]

I would be inclined to agree that mages didn't really get any big upgrades out of the expansion like DDs did and they definitely need to do something to close the gap. All I'm saying is it's unrealistic to expect the RME weapons to be changed to fill that gap. If anything happens at all, it will be new gear, not changes to old gear.


The reason I'm hoping the largest upgrades in magic damage will come from our weapons is because this has always been the case. IE: HQ staffs/Nirvana at 75 cap, Magian Staffs/Laevateinn/Nirvana at 99 cap before alduin etc

[Taint2]

Based on the DEV comments from yesterday REM will be Trophies for sure. They are going to get one update hopefully in Sept but more realistically in December after all Delve content has been out for awhile. After that they will be surpassed.

A few will remain useful for their unique abilities but the sheer damage weapons will be replaced.