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Daemon
06-20-2013, 12:44 PM
Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn

As I see more and more videos of FFXIV, I'm seeing a lot of details, things we have been asking for in FF11 for years.

Icons are displayed in front of you, obviously better than macros. After using a skill or ability, the recast timer of that is shown on the icon.

Standing still HP & MP not only refreshes, but at a couple of seconds unlike us who sit and wait.

Anyone have the opportunity to play 14, can you share with us some other details from in game experience? How are the improvements compared to the disaster when it was first released?

Watching videos on YouTube is starting to put a spark of interest in my eye from Job Gear designs, weapons, multiple jobs, Beautiful CS vids, Unique monsters, unique and different spells. The game looks much more fantasy that we grew up to love than the realistic real world type of FF13 and the movie spirits within.

And the fact that everyone seems to have a higher HP/MP allowing players to solo play as well as party with others much more effectively.

Mifaco
06-20-2013, 01:53 PM
Been thinking about dumping this game and moving on to XIV, it depends on the reviews though. If it's like pre-Abyssea FFXI, count me out.

Vizzer
06-20-2013, 02:02 PM
Thank you for this post, there are so many FFXI players that are bad mouthing this game, because of the stuff it has that XI doesn't, even though they have been begging for it. I think they are really upset XIV got it, but they didn't. The game is 100 times better since it's original release. The part about the rapid mp recovery for BLM is pretty a nifty little mechanic they put in, Blizzard deals ice damage, slows the enemy, and puts a buff on you that decreases your fire damage cast, but increases you mp regen through the roof, you can chain cast Blizzard non-stop and your mp will never go empty. Casting Fire spells on the other hand will replace your buff with a new one that increases your damage from fire spells, but stops your mp regen, so you can chain cast fire until you are low mp, then swap to blizzard to regen your mp, while tossing in other spells along the way, like thunder in XIV is a dot type spell. The quest driven storyline is great, with easy to identify and follow quests it makes leveling part of the story, a lot of it being soloable, but for things like dungeons that will require a party to take on, you can not only find groups, but there will be a Duty Finder that you will be able to use, that will pair you with players from your or other servers, so no more standing around town shouting for a group. Oh and how about Chocobos, they get armor, they have their own talent tress, tanking healing or damage dealing, because your chocobo will be able to go into battle with you. As far as crafting goes, you have a log book that holds all your recipies, something I know was really wanted in XI.

Alpheus
06-20-2013, 02:39 PM
I didnt play 1.0 but I did play Gladiator, Monk and Thaumaturge recently and I was impressed. They made WS combo-able sorta If you open with fast blade and close with savage blade you get a enmity boost (savage blade itself experiences a damage buff and deals more damage than normal) or you can opt to close with Riot Blade that restores MP. The guild quest for a Gladiator also had you learning about the job, one such quest had you clearing enemies while keeping hate off your NPC healer and I imagine it's similar for the other jobs as well. The game actually made me want to be a tank.

Monk I didn't get as far quest wise as my Gladiator but basically each WS puts you in a different stance that confers bonuses on the next WS you perform (provided the next WS is enhanced with the stance you are currently in).

I noticed on Thaumaturge that different DoT instances of Thunder actually stacked and didn't break sleep and that the added effect of gravity on blizzard spells (and the fact that it is your first spell) hints that they intend to have Mages be able to kite nuke sleep and DoT right out the gate.

Also you can attack other players mobs and if you contribute enough you can have that kill count towards your Hunting Log (its basically a GoV you take with you) or count towards a quest you flagged as well as be awarded EXP. However only the initial claimer and their party can receive any spoils from the kill.

BST
06-20-2013, 04:06 PM
Been thinking about dumping this game and moving on to XIV, it depends on the reviews though. If it's like pre-Abyssea FFXI, count me out.

FFXIV:ARR isn't anything like XI, the only familiar things are the races and even then there is more selection and will possibly have more added in expansions. The battle system is totally different, you don't auto-attack for TP, you can't gear swap at all, mages can recover MP in battle as explained above, there are Limit-breaks, archers don't consume arrows and can attack while moving, you can jump at will, your chocobo can fight with you, you can name your chocobo, you can level it up, you can have it attack/heal/combo, you can build armour sets to switch at the click of a button-just not in battle, you can hide your armour with the costume tab(not in beta) and while wearing your battle gear your costume will show in its place, everyone can teleport and warp from Lv1 and it doesn't require mp, free companies the end of tyrant LS leaders, Linkshells are now "chat channels" and are not displayed to anyone, NPC prices are very very very low, very low, you get where im going?, Market boards! goodbye hidden-price-AH, retainers-your own mules 24/7 online while your offline(or on), i could go on but running out of text.
Oh, and you can ALT+Tab while in fullscreen and run more than 1 instance of ARR on 1 pc.

Zumi
06-20-2013, 05:24 PM
I played FFXIV 1.0 and ARR. The best way to find out if you like it or not is just sign up for the beta and try it out for yourself. Even playing the first few levels the questing is nice has actual storyline. Theres a lot of cutscenes that will remind you of the older FF games.

For party exp you do dungeons. The gameplay is a lot faster and more action packed in that you will be using a lot more spells and abilities.

Zhronne
06-20-2013, 05:39 PM
FFXIV has very very little to do with FFXI, if anything.
Wether this is good or bad I guess it depends on many factors.

I've been playing and following FFXIV since 1.0 Alpha. My opinion is that FFXIV ARR is undoubtely a good game and that's out of question.
It's not necessarily what FFXI fans may be wanting to play though.
Aside from its undeniable quality, it's moved a bit too much towards the "theme park" model, compared to the "Sandbox" one (not like FFXI or original FFXIV were sandbox, but closer to that than Theme Park I'd say).
It just feels too much like any other nowadays MMO, it follows its criteria, its standards.
This is good if you're part of the mass and want to move from your current MMO to FFXIV (this was probably their goal), but it's less good if you were looking for something unique and different from anything else.
You're going to get disappointed if this is what you look for, or some sort of legacy after FFXI.

Despite these issues it's a good game though. Just be warned that it has little to do with FFXI.

Jaall
06-20-2013, 06:21 PM
I have to disagree, but agree with Zhronne - It's different from FFXI besides the mobs and classes etc, but it's also different to every other MMO out there, and more so if you use the controller. It does feel like the XI world completely, same mobs, same environments, even the same music somewhat (different tunes, same feel) but it has its differences that make it stand out as a new game and not just an FFXI HD Remastered edition which I know a lot of people actually wanted from XIV. I think personally this game has to be seen/played to know if it's right for you but it is definitely worth checking out, even if you don't like it just to say you've tried. I think a few truly dedicated XI fans will be against it for the sake of being against it but the majority will enjoy it, but you have to keep an open mind and accept it's not an XI remake.

Daemon
06-21-2013, 03:30 AM
I heard there are no subjobs. This sounds pretty good. If we had no subjobs on FFXI then jobs such as Redmage would probably still be popular. Any other things people can share about the new changes?

Zumi
06-21-2013, 05:00 AM
I heard there are no subjobs. This sounds pretty good. If we had no subjobs on FFXI then jobs such as Redmage would probably still be popular. Any other things people can share about the new changes?

Its called cross class abilities. In a place of a subjob. As you level up your classes they gain a certain amount of abilities/spells that may be shared with other classes/jobs. Most of the strong or class defining abilities can't be used on another class or job. Only certain things are tagged for cross class use.

In FFXIV there are classes and jobs. For example Gladiator at level 30 can do a quest to unlock Paladin. There is an equipment slot where you equip a job stone to change from class to job.

At level 50 classes can equip 10 different cross class skills/spells from any of the classes. A job at level 50 can equip 5 cross class abilities and is limited to 2 preselected classes. Paladin can only use stuff from conjurer(whm), and marauder(war) for example. But as a job they get 5 unique skills/spells, access to job specific gear, AF, relic weapon ect. Overall jobs are stronger then classes by a large amount are more geared for party play, but using a class can make you more versatile and possibly easier to solo stuff.

Spectreman
06-21-2013, 06:36 AM
I see many FFXI players giving up on FF14 when they get tired of that WoW combat system. FFXI combat system is slower but much more relaxing and strategic. Well see you guys back here after 1-2 months like it happened at 1.0.

Demon6324236
06-21-2013, 07:07 AM
Well see you guys back here after 1-2 months like it happened at 1.0.I'm doubtful, because FFXI is losing members faster than ever right now thanks to many problems we have which I explained in another thread, and will post here if you would like. Back when the original FFXIV came out this game was not doing nearly as bad. We basically just got an expansion, one which with it came hope, and instead of bringing, basically, a new golden age for the game, it brought chaos, anger, and a loss of many players already. We are told all the time that they lack manpower to do some things, that's why we have a long list of things over due which we were promised months ago, or even a few years ago. What happens to FFXI if its lacking this much manpower, and then on top of, say, 10% of the player base quitting because of what the expansion brought, another 20~30% quit because FFXIV comes out?

This game is sadly digging itself into a grave right now, and SE is giving us little hope for the future in my opinion because we still have yet to see them keep promises made long ago. Unless they can start to get out of the pit they have been digging to serve as the grave for this game then I am sure many people will simply go to FFXIV to try it out, see what its like, and if for some reason they choose to leave it alone, they probably wont look back at this game either. In all honesty, who can blame anyone who does though? We are told no on almost everything we ask for, or given no response, on things we do get a yes for we are often left waiting months or years to hear on progress and in some cases end up getting nothing in the end. Even the most simple of changes seem to take them a long time, for instance, the Storage update, we finally got recently, after it was announced how long ago? I think it was more than a year since the announcement, but something that should have been so fast and easy took them that long. Who would willingly and knowingly walk back into that kind of service after they left it?

I admit, I would quit FFXI if it were not for the fact I have a lot of friends I would hate to leave behind and I like the game for the most part, but when FFXIV comes around, I will not be on here any more, because its just not worth it. We have been let down by the ones running the game, I think Matsui did a good job at trying to clean some things up and made mistakes in other places. In either case, no amount of effort has been enough to fix my issues, instead things are getting worse, so I will most likely be taking my leave unless soon something vastly changes.

This month we are supposed to have a large update, 10 days left for them to get that done, still little info besides Skirmish, gear levels, and RUN/GEO AF/Merits, for a large update, that's nothing to me, Skirmish of which being the only thing I truly care about. FFXIV comes out on PC in August, that gives them roughly 2 months from right now to fix FFXI to a state of keeping its players, I personally do not think they can or will do it, why? Because, with the release of a game coming, they will probably take even more resources making sure everything goes well and fine in the first few weeks or months, giving this game even less man power, our biggest problem, and the cause of many things we have yet to see so far as were told.

Duelle
06-21-2013, 10:08 AM
It's not necessarily what FFXI fans may be wanting to play though.This. I at one point was getting sick of seeing "this game will fail because it didn't copy <insert aspect/system/design> from FFXI" during the second phase of beta. Don't treat XIV as a replacement for XI, but rather as its own game. I'll admit I border on breaking that rule since XIV to me is SE's second chance at getting RDM right instead of f*cking it up royally like they did here, but still.

Vil
06-21-2013, 12:15 PM
I see many FFXI players giving up on FF14 when they get tired of that WoW combat system. FFXI combat system is slower but much more relaxing and strategic. Well see you guys back here after 1-2 months like it happened at 1.0.

lol bitter much?

Maybe you aren't, but you come off that way. Let's not forget one of the reasons 1.0 did poorly was BECAUSE it wasn't a "WoW clone". Tanaka tried to do his own thing and it largely blew up in his face.

There is nothing wrong with streamlining a game. It's the MMO standard today. If they made another XI, it'd be dead on arrival, that's for sure. The market is with this generation MMO, not 10 years ago.

I urge you to participate in the game before suggesting that combat in XIV is not strategic. XI's combat system being "relaxing" is an opinion at best; I find it frustratingly slow and punishing, especially trying to solo things. No I don't want mobs to die fast and easy, but a little more goes a long way.

That said, even with 1.0's failure, I didn't come back to XI until March of this year, when we were inbetween Beta phases for ARR. I didn't flock back after two months. I let this one go. As much as I love this game (played for 9yrs), I do not have the time to drop as I once did. Even doing things like gathering a group for VW can take around 2hrs just to fill an alliance. XIV, I can log in, whack some mobs or do some quests, get a proper reward of exp and gil, and log out if I so please.

BST
06-21-2013, 12:34 PM
I see many FFXI players giving up on FF14 when they get tired of that WoW combat system. FFXI combat system is slower but much more relaxing and strategic. Well see you guys back here after 1-2 months like it happened at 1.0.

You'll see us back to celebrate the end of service for FFXI :)

I sure wont miss waiting 2 hours to get 18 people together for 1 battle or 40 minutes of farming.

Kincard
06-21-2013, 01:11 PM
Maybe you aren't, but you come off that way. Let's not forget one of the reasons 1.0 did poorly was BECAUSE it wasn't a "WoW clone". Tanaka tried to do his own thing and it largely blew up in his face.

The problem isn't that it was trying to be different from WoW, the main problem with 1.0 was that it was designed obtusely. Sometimes I think a lot of the big XIV supporters forget how mind-numbingly horrible 1.0 was. Stuff like not-copypasted terrain, more than ~10 quests every 70 hours and being able to vendor my inventory in less than 3 whole minutes arn't about "streamlining your game for filthy casuals", it's about designing your game with a shred of common sense.

XIV looks incredible, graphically, but there is little to distinguish it now gameplay-wise from just about every single other MMO that copied WoW, including many free ones. The FF name is going to help it sell, of course, but I don't think he's necessarily wrong that the game isn't going to attract a ton of MMO fans because a lot of them are tired of the WoW model (which is why so many people flock to EVE online since that's the only sandbox anymore).

Vold
06-21-2013, 03:39 PM
I was very firm on my view of FFXIV 1.0 I thought it was complete and utter crap, and the only reason it had a single soul left playing it was because those players were people desperate for the game to succeed. Period.


I got a beta invite and while the game is still in beta and 2 months from release, I'll just say that I have already per-ordered the collectors edition. It won't make me quit FFXI, ever, though SE can, but it's definitely going to get to share my free time. It's shaping up to be that good. Maybe that's because I never played WoW. Whatever. But it's shaping up to be that good to ME, and that's really all that matters. I'm ready for a next gen FF MMO, but I ain't ready to leave everything I've done in nearly 9 years in FFXI. I just hope I have enough time to support both.

OmnysValefor
06-21-2013, 04:22 PM
Its called cross class abilities. In a place of a subjob. As you level up your classes they gain a certain amount of abilities/spells that may be shared with other classes/jobs. Most of the strong or class defining abilities can't be used on another class or job. Only certain things are tagged for cross class use.

In FFXIV there are classes and jobs. For example Gladiator at level 30 can do a quest to unlock Paladin. There is an equipment slot where you equip a job stone to change from class to job.

At level 50 classes can equip 10 different cross class skills/spells from any of the classes. A job at level 50 can equip 5 cross class abilities and is limited to 2 preselected classes. Paladin can only use stuff from conjurer(whm), and marauder(war) for example. But as a job they get 5 unique skills/spells, access to job specific gear, AF, relic weapon ect. Overall jobs are stronger then classes by a large amount are more geared for party play, but using a class can make you more versatile and possibly easier to solo stuff.

This is how it worked in 1.0 and let me tell you, I was disappointed with the idea that advanced jobs were limited to what classes they could choose from. Paladin, as in Zumi's example, could only equip from CNJ and MRD, which meant it lost access to good abilities like Second Wind which was basically a really good Chakra on a 45s CD. Instant cast heal good for 33-50% of your health... huge loss.

I think I spent more time on GLA (the base class) than on PLD for that flaw alone.


Maybe you aren't, but you come off that way. Let's not forget one of the reasons 1.0 did poorly was BECAUSE it wasn't a "WoW clone". Tanaka tried to do his own thing and it largely blew up in his face.

They said, specifically, their only goal was to be different from FFXI. 1.0 failed because their only gameplan was to be different. They'd've probably been a marvelous success if they had taken what was best about XI and gone from there.

Every game company has this delusion that they'll get wow's fabled ELEVENTY ZILLION PLAYERS, and they won't. It will never happen again.

If MMOs are a drug, WoW came on the scene when your only other options were battery acid and gasoline. They provided a smooth, fun, experience when everybody else was trying to favor the hardcore-obsessed.

Vizzer
06-21-2013, 04:49 PM
This is how it worked in 1.0 and let me tell you, I was disappointed with the idea that advanced jobs were limited to what classes they could choose from. Paladin, as in Zumi's example, could only equip from CNJ and MRD, which meant it lost access to good abilities like Second Wind which was basically a really good Chakra on a 45s CD. Instant cast heal good for 33-50% of your health... huge loss.

I think I spent more time on GLA (the base class) than on PLD for that flaw alone.
You forgot to mention that with loosing Second wind, you also gained access to paladin only skills, weapons and armor, an ability that would heal others when you recieved healing, your own heal that you could cast on your self, or it would heal you for half the hps healed if you used on someone else, hallowed ground, nullifies most damage (wouldn't block astral flow type moves), cover, and the best emnity generating weaponskill in the game. Your Af armor returned mp whenever you blocked with your shield, your relic shield had refresh, and your relic sword proc'd mp back, so it was very difficult to run out of mp, meaning not having second wind wasn't that big of deal, and they said jobs were more party based, classes were more for solo, so if you were tanking in a group, you would have had a healer there anyway.

Duelle
06-21-2013, 05:03 PM
XIV looks incredible, graphically, but there is little to distinguish it now gameplay-wise from just about every single other MMO that copied WoW, including many free ones. The FF name is going to help it sell, of course, but I don't think he's necessarily wrong that the game isn't going to attract a ton of MMO fans because a lot of them are tired of the WoW model (which is why so many people flock to EVE online since that's the only sandbox anymore).There are a good chunk of people who want to jump ship from WoW but can't because contenders are either rushed into release (under the old "they'll put up with the game until we can get all the features in post-release" developer fallacy), fail to live up to the hype, have a crapton of other issues aside from missing systems (TOR), or are simply built on weak IPs. It's not as black and white as you seem to think it is.

OmnysValefor
06-21-2013, 05:18 PM
You forgot to mention that with loosing Second wind, you also gained access to paladin only skills, weapons and armor, an ability that would heal others when you recieved healing, your own heal that you could cast on your self, or it would heal you for half the hps healed if you used on someone else, hallowed ground, nullifies most damage (wouldn't block astral flow type moves), cover, and the best emnity generating weaponskill in the game. Your Af armor returned mp whenever you blocked with your shield, your relic shield had refresh, and your relic sword proc'd mp back, so it was very difficult to run out of mp, meaning not having second wind wasn't that big of deal, and they said jobs were more party based, classes were more for solo, so if you were tanking in a group, you would have had a healer there anyway.

Sounds like PLD certainly improved after I left.

Still, losing an instant cast powerful ability like that sucked, but I guess Paladin made up for it later on.

Vizzer
06-21-2013, 05:25 PM
Those were the abilities paladin always had, the only thing that wasn't added in same patch as the job itself were the relic sword and shield. Warrior was just so overpowered as a tank/damage dealer when they implemented it that the community shyed away from paladins, and very few people saw how good they actually could be until the relic quests were put in, and Warrior's steal cyclone was brought down to where it should have been from the start. I never tanked Coincounter on Warrior, it worked just fine, you just had to dodge the big moves, but with paladin, you could stand there and block it, and that fight, having the mages out of aoe range and away from slugs was helpful, so the less the boss moved, the more stable the fight.

Trumpy
06-22-2013, 08:51 AM
Linkshells were always intended as a chat system only. Players used them to make up their own end game systems for lotting and such (so thats where your tyrant end game Ls leaders come from). Other games have guilds and a system with in them, but i havent played many other MMOs.

Kaisha
06-22-2013, 10:07 AM
Only thing XIV has that I want in XI is a functional Sprint skill.

XI's had a /sprint command for years courtesy of Conflict, but the devs never bothered letting us use it freely on a cooldown outside.

Kincard
06-22-2013, 07:28 PM
There are a good chunk of people who want to jump ship from WoW but can't because contenders are either rushed into release (under the old "they'll put up with the game until we can get all the features in post-release" developer fallacy), fail to live up to the hype, have a crapton of other issues aside from missing systems (TOR), or are simply built on weak IPs. It's not as black and white as you seem to think it is.

I dunno, LOTRO, Guild Wars 2, and many other MMOs are very high-quality games, IMO. The problem has always had more to do with the nature of how MMOs work (designed to be played to the exclusion of everything else, people want to stick with their friends, etc) rather than anything especially wrong with what the games are doing.

I mean, I'm not really embarrassed to admit that part of the reason XI keeps drawing me back despite many other gmaes is because I've put so much time to my character that I've become "connected" to the little chipmonk-dwarf. That'll really help their XI players transfer over to XIV, but I dunno how well that'll bode for XIV in the general market.

Deifact
06-23-2013, 06:49 PM
While I think in total ARR is an improvement on 1.0, I can't help but feel the battle system lost some strategy.

Most of the time I feel like I'm spamming abilities almost mindlessly (on monk anyway) because battles move so fast, there's no time to stop and think "what skill would be really effective here?".

I also find it difficult to really notice some enfeeble effects. For example Archer can Venom an enemy but whether this does any noticeable damage I have no idea because again the battles are so quick I can just spam my hot bar until it dies.

I think this system is appealing at first, it looks flashy and cool but what I love about ffxi is that with some battles you have to make important decisions and in some cases a bad decision will make you die.

SqEnisfilledwithgeniuses
06-23-2013, 06:58 PM
I see people hung up on XIVs battle system. Let's look at XIs flawless system real quick. Take the current highest tier content, delve.

Paladin > Stand and get knocked around for 45 minutes.
Healers > Pro/shell/cure/erase/haste
DD > Auto Attack until 100%tp then ws.
Corsair > Hunter's Roll, Chaos Roll, Evoker's Roll, 7 minute nap
BRD > Minuet/Madrigal/March Elegy pull, lullaby.

Things that are missing: Skillchains, magic bursts, weaknesses, etc, etc.

In reality, all anyone is really clinging on to is "I've spent 'X' many years in this game."

I've played the beta last weekend and this weekend. I'll be switching to XIV in August. XIV has potential, XI is bleeding out.

Vizzer
06-23-2013, 07:14 PM
While I think in total ARR is an improvement on 1.0, I can't help but feel the battle system lost some strategy.

Most of the time I feel like I'm spamming abilities almost mindlessly (on monk anyway) because battles move so fast, there's no time to stop and think "what skill would be really effective here?".

I also find it difficult to really notice some enfeeble effects. For example Archer can Venom an enemy but whether this does any noticeable damage I have no idea because again the battles are so quick I can just spam my hot bar until it dies.

I think this system is appealing at first, it looks flashy and cool but what I love about ffxi is that with some battles you have to make important decisions and in some cases a bad decision will make you die.

First you are basing an entire game off of 20 levels of a beta, and second what battles in XI require you to make important decisions, the biggest decision I see people making during delve content, is what to watch on TV while they are there.

SqEnisfilledwithgeniuses
06-23-2013, 07:26 PM
First you are basing an entire game off of 20 levels of a beta, and second what battles in XI require you to make important decisions, the biggest decision I see people making during delve content, is what to watch on TV while they are there.

Not really true...My biggest decision was to level THM or CNJ on the beta while in delve. TV is overrated.

Daemon
06-23-2013, 09:50 PM
I'll admit I border on breaking that rule since XIV to me is SE's second chance at getting RDM right instead of f*cking it up royally like they did here, but still.

Lol sad to say this but I know how you feel about RDM, however, did they even implement RDM in 14? O.o

Vizzer
06-23-2013, 09:57 PM
They don't have a red mage in XIV, and with their current system, it would be tricky to implement it. Right now there are disciples of war and magic, disciples of war do not get access to damaging spells, and disciples of magic do not get access to weaponskills, not saying that it won't happen in the future, but if they do, it will be with their XIV spin on it, just have to wait and hope and see.

Mayoyama
06-23-2013, 10:32 PM
I guess conjurer is kinda RDM-ish.. since it gets curing and nuke (stone) and debuff (aero is a dot).

I dont know how much detail I can actually go into due to NDAs, but I can say that having been a veteran XI player for many years, XIV is certainly a breath of fresh air.

What I can (and will) say about XIV is:
*The GFX are amazing
*music is great (and even after many many hours of hearing it its not grating on me yet.. unlike XI's music quickly does) *the lore and storyline is immense, quests actually have a sense of purpose (I'm actually wanting to read the text - its short but still gives storyline unlike TOAU/WOTG /disgust)
*xp is integrated in with the entire system and even doing quests gives xp making the whole system very fluid and appealing to new players (unlike XI's get to lv 10, burn pages for 20+ levels and/or burn in aby and then be so badly gimp on gear and skill you have to spend even longer griding to be even semi-useful)
*many quests give gear (relevant to the level the quest is available ie lv15 gear for a lv15 quest) so having to scrape by with paultry offerings on a neglected AH isnt necessary
*crafting is intuitive and actually takes some thought
*while the battle system may seem a little babyish in the lower levels to an experienced MMO player, the higher level content, especially party content, is where it shines the best - keep in mind the game is designed to also ease in people who may not have played an MMO before.. something XI fails at miserably.
*The PS3 version actually plays like a real PS3 game.. not like some shoddy port. The controls are simply amazing and so easy to pick up (and functional!) that it really is very easy to play on a console! And this is coming from an avid PC-only-down-with-consoles! XI player. The only drawback is the PS3 software keyboard but I learnt a standard PC kb works on XIV anyway lol.

So yea.. I've officially buried my poor Tarutaru and gave him a nice funeral service, and my Lalafell is lala-laughing all the way to my bank account as I pre-order the CE of XIV and leave XI behind before my fond memories are any more tainted by the shite this game is dishing up

Vizzer
06-23-2013, 10:45 PM
NDA is now limited to not posting videos and sound. Pictures or any type of information is fine to toss out to the world.

Alpheus
06-23-2013, 10:50 PM
If anything the job class Musketeer might be XIV's RDM. Well it's melee side at least (that fencing thing).

Deifact
06-23-2013, 11:14 PM
First you are basing an entire game off of 20 levels of a beta, and second what battles in XI require you to make important decisions, the biggest decision I see people making during delve content, is what to watch on TV while they are there.

Well I had my 1.0 characters this weekend, so around level ~45. And my post is just my opinion, based largely on FFXI content outside of herp derp delve, or even Abyssea etc., since people seem to forget there is a lot of game out there outside of these events.

I'm sure come release there will be battles that require kiting or hate management etc. but from what I've seen so far, we won't be seeing the same amount of variety in battle strategy as is available in FFXI. Maybe when the game reaches its 11th birthday.

Demon6324236
06-23-2013, 11:23 PM
Honestly RDM being my favorite job in all of FF is the only reason why I have any doubt of getting FFXIV, if it had that, I would be 100% on it, without it, not sure what job I will even want to play as a main job anymore. : /

Mayoyama
06-23-2013, 11:34 PM
Honestly RDM being my favorite job in all of FF is the only reason why I have any doubt of getting FFXIV, if it had that, I would be 100% on it, without it, not sure what job I will even want to play as a main job anymore. : /

In all seriousness, really the only thing lacking from conjurer vs rdm is the sword/enspell part. you can still solo quite well, heal buff, nuke, dot etc

XIV's version of "subjob" means you could even play a melee class and use several conjurer spells/abilities. The possibilities of combining skills from all different classes to completely customise the character to the situation/playstyle means that you dont feel "boxed in" like you do on XI a lot.. not to mention the ability to change jobs on the spot simply just by changing your main hand wep means real diversity (and no more annoying wasting 30-60 min waiting on ppl to run to their mh to change jobs!!!)

Waiting on a party member? not a problem! slap on your goldsmithing mallet and instantly swap to GSM and craft while waiting (and visably earn xp towards that next level, unlike XI's over-reliance on crappy random number generators, and that low chance of a .1 skill up.... -.-) Or maybe you could swap to miner and use "lay of the land" to be told exactly how far and in which direction the nearest mining point is! O and with mining/logging you can actually CHOOSE exactly what item you want to harvest.. not be held at ransom by random loot pools!

Vizzer
06-23-2013, 11:50 PM
The content was only about up to level 20, they had higher level enemies, but no quests and high level dungeons, because it is beta, and the main point of this last weekend was to do a run at transferring over 1.0 character data, and seeing how the fixes for things found last week were working. As for battles not needing strategy, did you run any of the dungeons, like having to kite the slimes in copperbell mines while someone spawned the bombs, then you had to kill the enemies trying to kill the bombs, so they would self destruct, while you kited the slimes into the blast range, causing the slimes to split until they were small enough to be killed? And that was a level 15 dungeon, and if you read the posts from the devs, they plan to up the difficulty and battle mechanics as you get higher levels, the early levels are more for turorial, and also to help introduce players to the mmorpg type of game, because they understand not every has played mmo's for the last 10 years. All the enemies you saw up around 45, were nothing but trash mobs, I don't remember any trash mobs in XI that required some elaborate strategy to kill. And I'm guessing you didn't play towards the end of the original XIV 1.20-1.23 where the mechanics were upped a ton with primal fights, Aurum Vale, Cutter's Cry, and the White Raven fight.

Demon6324236
06-24-2013, 01:00 AM
In all seriousness, really the only thing lacking from conjurer vs rdm is the sword/enspell part. you can still solo quite well, heal buff, nuke, dot etcYeah but the melee aspect is part of what I love most about RDM, I built my only Relic and Emp for RDM on FFXI and have always done my best to melee when possible. Taking that part out of the job just kind of kills it for me in a way. It would not really feel like my favorite job, just a cheap knockoff, like a SCH or something similar probably, and in that case, I would probably end up playing SCH since it was announced recently I thought.

Crusader81
06-24-2013, 06:47 AM
FFXIV ARR is amazing!

It's different than XI though, the pace is much faster, but it's also more fun in my opinion. Some Screen shots I have. I'll post the Screen shots in a min.

Jaall
06-24-2013, 06:50 AM
Weirdly enough the FFXI "crowd" seem to be the hardest to please when it comes to XIV. I know it's a different game but it's still a final fantasy and the atmosphere of final fantasy is still there. I played XI for so long because of the community and from what I've seen so far, the XIV community is mostly just as friendly as the XI player base.

There are a lot of changes to XIV and no it's not a XI clone like a lot of people wanted but that's actually a good thing in most ways. There are things that I think should copy over from FFXI, but overall it's got fantastic potential. I think anyone saying they won't play it without even trying it should give it a go, because you'll probably be pleasantly surprised even without the jobs you love (there are variants of a lot of XI jobs in XIV, but they have different names and every job has different mechanics regardless of name). XIV is a different game, but it's only bad if you go in expecting it to be an exact remake of XI. If you go in expecting a brand new, exciting mmo then you will probably find it much more enjoyable.

Merton9999
06-24-2013, 06:54 AM
Yeah but the melee aspect is part of what I love most about RDM, I built my only Relic and Emp for RDM on FFXI and have always done my best to melee when possible. Taking that part out of the job just kind of kills it for me in a way. It would not really feel like my favorite job, just a cheap knockoff, like a SCH or something similar probably, and in that case, I would probably end up playing SCH since it was announced recently I thought.

SCH was announced recently but is not playable in the beta yet, similar to SMN and the starting class for both, Arcanist. I'm glad about this actually. Those are the classes that interest me the most, so I'd like to save the best for last, or in this case, until the official release.

Demon I think you should give this a try. The second paragraph of Mayoyama's post is what might interest you. The skill system structure is similar to Tactics. Instead of one subjob, you can assign skills from any other class you've leveled to your main class. Although, there are some limitations based on class. Depending on how those limitations play out, you might just be able to create your melee mage by maining GLD (the sword wielder) and assigning some spells to it from other classes.

FFXIV is a miracle of a game. Most of what I love about it has already been posted here. Rather than repeating that I'll give some personal facts:

1. For the first time in 17 years I spent two weekends playing a "new" video game for 24 hours straight. And last weekend I didn't even know the beta was shutting down on Sunday.

2. I never recommended XI to a friend that hadn't tried it already. I'm telling everyone I know who loves Final Fantasy to try XIV.

3. I never listened to a FFXI music track outside of the game on purpose. I have tracks from ARR favorited on YouTube to listen to at work (all official of course!).

4. When playing ARR alone, I stop regularly to take a screenshot or soak in the BGM. I have over 200 shots now, and many are used as wallpapers. When I was on PS2, I never reached the screenshot limit for XI.

5. People are complaining about a simplistic battle system, but just on THM I had a heck of a lot more fun in the early levels than playing BLM 1-10 in XI. I do hope it becomes as complex as XI in later levels but for the only levels I can compare, ARR is far better.

6. A good friend at work was on the beta for XIV 1.0. He decided from that to not buy it. He and I both reserved our collectors editions of XIV ARR last weekend.

Don't fall for any of the political, philosophical, economic or borderline religious junk that plagues this forum concerning XIV. If I see a game I think looks phenomenal, I'm going to sign up for a free beta or demo no matter what baggage it has. If it's fun I'll buy it. If it stops being fun for whatever reason SE has to make it that way, I'll cancel and move on then. For now, XIV feels like a Final Fantasy game I can play with friends. I would have never described XI that way.

Crusader81
06-24-2013, 06:57 AM
Here are the screen shots I have, I couldn't find my Bubbly Bernie pic.
http://i39.tinypic.com/8xviv7.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/5vyipd.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2zdn4va.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/309hc2o.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/i57r52.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2q9l9qs.jpg
You may remember Ulhaudshi
http://i42.tinypic.com/2w32wyr.jpg
Copyright (C) 2010 - 2013 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. All Rights Reserved.

Demon6324236
06-24-2013, 07:18 AM
I most definitely plan to try FFXIV, and I will probably love it, I just meant to say that my only problem with the game as of right now is the lack of RDM, I like the idea you can get somewhat close though.

Duelle
06-24-2013, 10:48 AM
If anything the job class Musketeer might be XIV's RDM. Well it's melee side at least (that fencing thing).You forget that real life musketeers were ALL about ranged combat and had the sword as a last resort if they found themselves in melee. The way archers had knives/axes as a means of self defense.

Musketeer should be designed around ranged DPS through firearms (guns, muskets). RDM (http://www.yare-yare.com/rdm.jpg) should stem from Fencer (http://www.yare-yare.com/fencing.jpg) because, well, it makes sense (fanmade pics, but get the point across).

Alpheus
06-24-2013, 11:05 AM
You're right that was a blanket assumption going only by the movies and the (tho different) fact that both RDM and Musketeers had Pimp Hats.

That said I'd imagine them adding Guns w/ the Gunner/Fusilier class.

Kaisha
06-24-2013, 01:17 PM
Weirdly enough the FFXI "crowd" seem to be the hardest to please when it comes to XIV
Doesn't help when a 'new' MMO lifts a lot of enemy models directly from FFXI and just slaps a higher resolution texture onto it.

It's also a WoW-clone, which is the polar opposite of how XI plays in terms of deliberate pacing and XP grinding (forced group-play + safe camps vs. grinding 50 quests solo in a zone you can slaughter mobs in 3 seconds with zero fear of death), or at least used to prior to Abyssea giving everyone a taste for easy-mode.

Demon6324236
06-24-2013, 02:35 PM
Doesn't help when a 'new' MMO lifts a lot of enemy models directly from FFXI and just slaps a higher resolution texture onto it.From what I heard it has some music shared with FFXI as well. Both of these things are good to me, not bad, because it means upon starting there will be somewhat a feel of similarity and familiarity to the game, it will not be FFXI, that's for sure, but it will have a familiar feel to it in a way, one which I will embrace and enjoy.

BST
06-24-2013, 03:12 PM
Guess what else we got :

http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t579/FFXISCR/ffxiv_20130621_214906_zps17956056.png
Copyright (C) 2010 - 2013 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. All Rights Reserved.
And...

http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t579/FFXISCR/ffxiv_20130622_154931_zpsaf50fbeb.png
Copyright (C) 2010 - 2013 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. All Rights Reserved.

Look! a giant crystal, and.. focus.. eye :

http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t579/FFXISCR/ffxiv_20130623_004447_zps117a6ad5.png
Copyright (C) 2010 - 2013 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. All Rights Reserved.

I'm actually K.O in this picture, but where? ...

Jaall
06-24-2013, 03:51 PM
It's also a WoW-clone, which is the polar opposite of how XI plays in terms of deliberate pacing and XP grinding (forced group-play + safe camps vs. grinding 50 quests solo in a zone you can slaughter mobs in 3 seconds with zero fear of death), or at least used to prior to Abyssea giving everyone a taste for easy-mode.

It's definitely not a WoW clone, have you played it? It looks slightly similar to WoW and yes you can kill mobs fairly quick if they're the same level as you, but fight those 2+ levels higher and suddenly it gets to the difficulty level of XI in terms of both damage done to the mob and the damage it does to you. If you consider those with the same level as you being "easy prey" and then those 2 levels higher being "decent challenge" - 3 levels higher being "even match" etc etc then you'll probably realise it's not that easy. EXP works the same too and increases for higher level mobs you fight.

In terms of XP grinding, currently they only have quests once and lets not forget that like XI you can change class/job any time you like on 1 character. Therefore if you finish all quests (they don't give much exp compared to a lot of WoW clones) which you likely will on 1-2 classes then you are left to grind. There are also leve's which seem like an updated version of Fields of Valor that is essentially a varied grind. The only issue I have with leve's are that you have a limit on how many you can do in a certain time frame.

FFXI players looking for an XI clone will forever be unhappy. There will never be another XI and I think that's pretty obvious. XIV however is the next best thing to that and is probably the closest any game will ever come to it, especially with the atmosphere largely being the same. You will still run around seeing Chocobos, Mithra, Taru and Galka etc. XIV is definitely a FF and definitely has the feel of the older FF games which IMO were a lot better than the latest versions.

If, like I said, an XI player goes into XIV, not expecting it to be an XI clone but expecting it to be a whole new game then you will probably be pleasantly surprised. If you go in expecting an XI clone, expect to be disappointed. Also in the same respects if you expect XIV to be like any other mmo then you have it wrong and it will cloud your vision. In reality the only similarities between XIV and WoW are the quest system and UI, but that is essentially what makes an mmo. Just because WoW started that off and made a huge success everyone thereafter blames every game designer of copying WoW but that simply is not the case.

Vil
06-25-2013, 04:59 AM
Doesn't help when a 'new' MMO lifts a lot of enemy models directly from FFXI and just slaps a higher resolution texture onto it.

It's also a WoW-clone, which is the polar opposite of how XI plays in terms of deliberate pacing and XP grinding (forced group-play + safe camps vs. grinding 50 quests solo in a zone you can slaughter mobs in 3 seconds with zero fear of death), or at least used to prior to Abyssea giving everyone a taste for easy-mode.

I like how you make it seem like SE using assets already in their library is some kind of sacrilege. Nothing wrong with reusing models.

And the "WoW-clone" remark has been made so often, against so many games, I start to wonder if its bitterness talking.

Yes XIV and today's STANDARD of MMO are polar opposites of XI, for one very good reason: XI is a 11 year old game, with standards that were very different back then. Why the hell would SE waste their time and money creating another game like XI, that is so unforgiving and time-consuming, to a market that is far more catering to a casual crowd than it was 11 years ago.

XI is a wonderful game, I spent 9 years on it, but after trying XIV's concepts, I realized just how much fun I could have at the fraction of the time it takes to do anything on XI. To say that XIV is "easy mode" is laughable. Each game has their own balance of ease and difficulty, the only difference is that the content doesn't take a million years to reap rewards. Remember, time spent does not equal difficulty. XIV has forced party content as well, just at lower levels, yes, you do solo, so that you can have a smooth transition into the game's mechanics and how things work. By level 15 you need a party to progress..so yeah.

I'm not sure why you're so quick to put it down. Is it because it seems to be garnering more attention than XI? I get it, to a lot of people its been a way of life for 10+ yrs, but to dismiss it like this is just silly. You don't have to play it, but you also don't have to drop negativity bombs in some kind of vain hope people will ignore it.

@Demon6324236 They don't use any of the XI music in XIV. What they do use is the usual FF series stuff, like Chocobo, crystal theme etc

Jaall
06-25-2013, 05:10 AM
@Demon6324236 They don't use any of the XI music in XIV. What they do use is the usual FF series stuff, like Chocobo, crystal theme etc

I know what he means by the music, it's very different but somehow sounds the same. It's almost as if they've used exactly the same instruments but different compositions, to keep the feel of it being a Final Fantasy game. They're the same type of melodies but slightly altered. It's hard to explain because I've never studied music enough to explain it properly, but I do know I like it!

sc4500
06-25-2013, 07:21 AM
I spent all day on ff14 on fri at 300am ish to saturday afternoon 4pm till I went to sleep. FF14 is awsome with a few flaws , but is still just a beta. got pugilist to lv16, conjuer lv8 and goldsmithing and weaving to lv 6, and it was fun. I know im going get character wipe after the next beta next week, so i did not waste time with the more advance stuff with the macros pages.

I been on ff11 from one month after the ps2 launch in NA and must say that ff14 is a true final fantasy game again.

First if you do play the beta you need to get to the airship pass so it opens up the rest of the world as fast as you can. The story is such a honor to all of the final fantasy franchises it crazy and there is some voice overs in the cutscenes. I know there many people that probally were never born when ff1 and so on were out. If you ever played all the other final fantasy games this is the real deal finally. I think that why they made it easy at first since many them never played a mmo before. You will even see characters names and stuff related to final fantasy 11 in the game.

Battle system is standard mmo play now , but as you progress it starts to gets much more complex. Were you will need to get your combos off so that you get the effects that they cause on your character.

Questing and the story mission so much more stream lined and do not got to spends hrs looking and following a wiki page. So that nice. It does early on really hold your hands , but some more advance quests, you need to read the quest, because it will not show you were you to go unless do so and so thing first.

One thing nice is all three the city you can do all the quest there like in ff11 ,but those quests give you a lot exp, once there done there are done. but you can choose do them for your main character or should you choose can do them for one of the sub jobs. that you want to use for the main character or just balance all the other jobs out, but once those all done then your back to the old ff11 grinding for xp to leveling jobs. rumor is if do all the quest can get a job to lv50. Then you be forced to have to grind exp for the other jobs. So all need to do is equip the weapon and change it to that job and turn the quest in, but some quests will have level restrictions. So if the job is to low unable to turn it in for that job.

It been a surprise how well they got ff14 going, after the ff14 1.0. Like my one buddy who had 6 jobs lv50 on the 1.0 side told me and my friends .said "The game is not even the same game anymore on 2.0 and much more fluid and even he was learning alot of the newer stuff on the game. And the entire story is different from when he played and he thought it was so cool on how they did the story so far".

Alerith
06-25-2013, 07:46 AM
They use a remix of the Final Fantasy II battle theme in one of the missions. It was very nicely done and I'm glad to see the guy who wrote the music for Final Fantasy II in 1990 is still writing and remixing his own work in 2013.

Hayward
06-25-2013, 08:08 AM
I am seriously considering giving this a try and pre-ordering within the next 2 weeks (digital downloads are $50. Nice price there). I've tried all I could to keep believing in XI but catering exclusively to the BG crowd in Adoulin killed whatever hope I had left in the game. Hardly anyone does Abyssea NMs anymore, no one even does reives anymore. The game has tragically become a shell of what it was even 3 years ago.

I said it in my thread and I'll say it again: If S-E takes aspects from Guild Wars 2 and other modern MMOs that do away with the grindfest in favor of more dynamic play, XIV will be a sure-fire hit from launch. I'm very curious what SMN can do in Eorzea. I pray they aren't nearly as scared of overpowering the job there as they have been here. The last thing XIV needs are jobs that are needlessly underpowered.

Merton9999
06-25-2013, 10:03 AM
@Demon6324236 They don't use any of the XI music in XIV. What they do use is the usual FF series stuff, like Chocobo, crystal theme etc

Yeah I didn't notice any XI tracks, but like you said the series standards are there. I wanted to point out though that not only are they there, but they are redone magnificently.

For example, the character creator has a simply mesmerizing new version of the classic Prelude theme. It made a fabulous first impression on me as I was beginning the game. Also, the first really large solo quest at 14-17 with the high-quality CS and voice acting gives you airship access. The short airship take-off (every time you board) is not only visually stunning (I just kept riding back and forth to watch it!) but it plays a great version of the Pray theme.

I edited my last post because I mistakenly said I never listened to a FF song outside the game before this. That's completely wrong. What I meant was a track from XI. I listened to music outside of games for 1-10, 13 & 13-2, and now some excellent tracks from 14. They do have a FF feel to them like Jaall said, but there's something more grand to these. For better or worse, they almost remind me of epic themes from the old Superman movies, Star Wars and Disney :)

Merton9999
06-25-2013, 10:18 AM
Doesn't help when a 'new' MMO lifts a lot of enemy models directly from FFXI and just slaps a higher resolution texture onto it.

It's also a WoW-clone, which is the polar opposite of how XI plays in terms of deliberate pacing and XP grinding (forced group-play + safe camps vs. grinding 50 quests solo in a zone you can slaughter mobs in 3 seconds with zero fear of death), or at least used to prior to Abyssea giving everyone a taste for easy-mode.

I have a hard time believing you actually played it. First, these aren't just higher res textures, the game is beautifully designed. When I'm taking screenshots, it's not because "there's lots of colors" or it's technically impressive, I'm taking them because they are artistically and creatively beautiful scenes. I can't think of anything from 9 years of XI I would describe that way. Maybe some parts of Sea and Sky, but in XIV I feel like I had access to the beauty of Sky the moment I started, and better at that. I can't imagine what lies ahead.

You can make the beginning of any game easy or hard. My nephew was complaining how easy it was in text before I signed on to beta and when I met up with him I'm watching the guy repeatedly stomp on mobs two levels below him for slow xp :( I proceeded later to show him just how difficult it could be by taking on mobs levels above us, watching for aggro and AOE spam, sleeping appropriately, etc. I had every opportunity to make difficult yet rewarding experience sessions in XIV as I did in XI. The only differences are we didn't need to rest (waste time), had hunting logs to follow that led us all over the map to a variety of mobs, and integrated tons of quests that offered a story and immersion element to simple mob grinding.

Speaking of challenge, the game does a great thing by recommending a minimum level for solo quests, then adding a cap so you can't do it more than a few levels higher than that minimum. People who want a challenge can attempt these at the lowest level and develop a strategy to win after dying one or more times. And these aren't "strategies" that involve ridiculous time requirements, random number generators and forced grouping. They're quite masterfully designed to require each job to use all of its skills to the fullest with good timing. People that don't want to bother with that and just want to see the story can level up a bit and have a much easier time of it.

Daemon
06-25-2013, 11:36 AM
Mooooaaaaar pictures plz.... wow

Nakts
06-25-2013, 02:21 PM
"Now then, FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn has adopted the quest form game design that was established by World of Warcraft." - Naoki_Yoshida

In fact if you're in the beta, that's on the forums, and it's not the only mention of copying WoW, so we can throw out the, "Not a WoW" defense now. That said the game is mediocre in every way, except the combat which is pure garbage.

Demon6324236
06-25-2013, 02:39 PM
"Now then, FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn has adopted the quest form game design that was established by World of Warcraft." - Naoki_YoshidaA system that works? Oh no!


In fact if you're in the beta, that's on the forums, and it's not the only mention of copying WoW, so we can throw out the, "Not a WoW" defense now. That said the game is mediocre in every way, except the combat which is pure garbage.Mediocre in every way? I disagree, I think if nothing else the Graphics are beyond incredible, are they everything to a game? No, its what I have seen, but still, not mediocre in the least.

Vizzer
06-25-2013, 02:39 PM
The quest system is one aspect of the game, just because they put a system in where quests act like an in game turtorial in the beginning, they have a journal so you can keep track of your quests, with maps and objectives, this is in so people don't have to swap to community sites to get through quests. The system allows people to rush through, not paying much attention to quests, or allow you read and get caught up in the quests. They have systems that allow different types of players to enjoy the game, what is wrong with that? If you dont' want to use shortcuts like skipping cutscenes and teleports, you don't have to, they give you that choice. If you want to think it's a WoW clone, and don't want to give it a chance, that's fine, it's your choice, have fun grinding delve for months on end, waiting for devs to fill a promise that they will fix the broken content they put in, while the rest of us can actually go on and enjoy a game that let's us play the way we want to play.

Jaall
06-25-2013, 03:55 PM
There is no chance XIV will appeal to everyone, but the majority seem to love it. There are very very little hate posts on the beta forums which I find amazing, because it's a forum! Also the number of "I LOVE THIS GAME!!" threads is insane, and this is only beta! It isn't even close to final release and there's little content compared to what there will be at release yet a lot of people could play just the beta for months and be happy.

They really have created a masterpiece with ARR, and no it wont be for everyone, but in terms of overall satisfaction I think it hits the mark completely and obviously so do a lot of other people. XIV will definitely be a success, and there is nothing any one person can do about it so if you're desperately hanging onto the hope that XIV will fail so XI gets more love, it isn't gonna happen anymore. It had a bad start but they really have redesigned the whole game and it doesn't even seem like the same game compared to how it started.

BST
06-25-2013, 03:59 PM
The questing system may be generic but it works and gets you going from the get go (FFXIV).

This game (FFXI) however, still uses pointless and unhelpful quest / mission descriptions in 2013. I've always hated how the quest and mission dialogue is so vague that one has to look at a 3rd-party website to check what to do next.


There is no chance XIV will appeal to everyone, but the majority seem to love it. There are very very little hate posts on the beta forums which I find amazing, because it's a forum!
This is true, they don't even need to moderate it because the haters get hated on!:cool:

sc4500
06-25-2013, 04:51 PM
What is funny is when people say ff14 is to much like WoW now. They tried to reinvent the wheel and we seen the disaster that turn into for ff14 1.0. I would Rather have a strong playable game with a great storyline and a game that is fun. That ff14 is now offering. Down the road ff14 can easily make it harder and had more game play elements now. When the time comes.

I think there a strong group of players that would love for ff14 to fail, so that all there hard work over the years on ff11. Have not felt wasted, and change is a hard thing for those of us that been on ff11 for the last 10 + yrs or it just time to move on. Yet if they do ff11 right they can hold the niche hardcore market. Just there going to need people from ff14 from time to time play ff11. Scary part for some of the haters are there slowing seeing there friends and other people moving over to ff14 and all the help and worked that they helped those friends and people with.

Plus i feel that ff14 is going to bring in all there final fantasy fans to ff14 now. In doing so. You got to look at it with a open mind that many of them never touched a mmo before. With many of there fans over the age of 25+ and got jobs and kids and stuff they want to accomplish some stuff in the short hrs they got time to play. With many of those fans who tryed ff11 for short periods of time and they did not like ff11.

Daemon
06-25-2013, 04:53 PM
Well FF11 cannot hang on forever if its designed to stay on the limitations of PS2. Once PS4 is released PS2 will fade away as did the PS1. Then SE will either have to drop 11 or do an overhaul moving the game over to PS3/4 or drop the game off consoles entirely and leave it strictly on PC. To recode the entire game and every single expansion sounds like making a brand new game. Reason why FF7 was never remade. Most likely why FF14 was receiving so much attention because its designed to play on a higher console than PS2.

Technology is changing so fast. IBM is already working on hologram phones like you saw back in the day in movies such as Star Wars. They said it could be ready in about a decade.

Did you see the resurrection of 2Pac at Coachella?

10 years from now maybe Mario will be sitting next to you at the dinner table D: you may have to save those mash potatoes for King Koopa.

BST
06-25-2013, 06:04 PM
How could they possibly get rid of PS2 limitations though. And then, what about Xbox360.
Could they ever get rid of limitations? Would it be worth it.

sc4500
06-25-2013, 06:11 PM
Well FF11 cannot hang on forever if its designed to stay on the limitations of PS2. Once PS4 is released PS2 will fade away as did the PS1. Then SE will either have to drop 11 or do an overhaul moving the game over to PS3/4 or drop the game off consoles entirely and leave it strictly on PC. To recode the entire game and every single expansion sounds like making a brand new game. Reason why FF7 was never remade. Most likely why FF14 was receiving so much attention because its designed to play on a higher console than PS2.

Technology is changing so fast. IBM is already working on hologram phones like you saw back in the day in movies such as Star Wars. They said it could be ready in about a decade.

Did you see the resurrection of 2Pac at Coachella?

10 years from now maybe Mario will be sitting next to you at the dinner table D: you may have to save those mash potatoes for King Koopa.

Yea , but all they need to do is just improve the xbox 360 version and PC version , and they could make it look great, but there still alot of japanese players that play on the ps2 version from what were told. Heard many japanese players do not got a PC and we know the xbox 360 failed bad there. We seen what ff14 does on the ps3 and xbox360 is pretty much the same system and 360 version was just a emulated version of ff11 .The ps2 game with hd added to it. Over time they were able to improve the xbox version from locking up and gave some of the stuff the pc got. Yet at this time and age I feel there like why put in the work to make it look amazing , They should have did it back in the Heyday of Aby. If there were going to improve the graphics.

People still listen to LP records. Sometimes classic stuff is classic though. Even when techno blows right past it. Heck the other weekend I went to a party and we pulled out the SNES and played some Killer instincts and we all had a blast lol. Just because we were all mad at microsoft ways for the xbox 1 at the time.

SqEnisfilledwithgeniuses
06-25-2013, 06:20 PM
Also the number of "I LOVE THIS GAME!!" threads is insane, and this is only beta!

It makes me sad when the beta shuts down for the week on Sunday... Means I have to go back to FFXI until Friday. :(

Anyways, the game is truly amazing. I've played multiple F2P and P2P MMOs over the years, and I have to say XIV is one of the most impressive ones I've played.

Also, I really don't quite get why people bash so hard on WoW. I've played that before as well. It's a fun game for what it is. I used to alternate between FFXI and WoW just so I could get my PvP fix, which oh yeah, XIV will have.

All in all....

Amazing game. Will buy. Will quit FFXI. Fun times ahead.

sc4500
06-25-2013, 08:23 PM
It makes me sad when the beta shuts down for the week on Sunday... Means I have to go back to FFXI until Friday. :(

Anyways, the game is truly amazing. I've played multiple F2P and P2P MMOs over the years, and I have to say XIV is one of the most impressive ones I've played.

Also, I really don't quite get why people bash so hard on WoW. I've played that before as well. It's a fun game for what it is. I used to alternate between FFXI and WoW just so I could get my PvP fix, which oh yeah, XIV will have.

All in all....

Amazing game. Will buy. Will quit FFXI. Fun times ahead.

What really crazy for ff14 is the benchmarks people been doing on there high end CPU's. There getting 60fps to 70fps on high settings and maxed settings been around 55-65 fps. The PS3 version insanse runs a solid 30 ish fps. I know a few friends with insane cpu able to get it to 83fps to 91 fps. Those pc guys are like it best looking game they ever seen on the pc graphic wise. Haters that got there set up on the pc there way unable to get it there, are like I spent my money into my pc my way and then are like if it not good enough for me , then it not good enough for anyone.

Vil
06-26-2013, 12:21 AM
How could they possibly get rid of PS2 limitations though. And then, what about Xbox360.
Could they ever get rid of limitations? Would it be worth it.

From what Yoshida (XIV producer) said, and from what was also said on XV's announcement, SE is starting to build their games on DirectX 11, which in their words, makes it easier to port to different formats than say, building a game on the ps3 and porting over to Xbox.

This facilitates porting to multiple consoles and formats, and keep up with the current technology. This is how they'll be able to put out a PS4 version of XIV in just a year or so.

I really wish they could do the same for XI, but recoding 11 years worth of game content sounds like a massive behemoth. Ideally, it'd be nice, but most likely not feasible ><

Spectreman
06-26-2013, 12:31 AM
These people will never learn.

Tennotsukai
06-26-2013, 12:54 AM
Played some of the beta of XIV. I'm rather impressed as well so I'll be transitioning from one game to the other h/w retaining my character on XI. I really hope after XIV ARR is 99% complete with everything they want done with it they will send 70% of those devs to FFXI and help rebuild this game.

It seems XI has made it so where most content in the game is worthless and not worth the effort anymore. It's all about burning to 99, getting a delve weapon with some decent gear, and farming plasm anymore. I know people do other things like farm ADL, which can be fun, but I'm still put off by how boring this game can be. Whether its delve farming or waiting for 18/18 people for 2 hours, this game is so much more boring than XIV.

I know a lot of people are going to troll on this, but it should be evident this game is not going to last long until a V2 or something attracting more customers to pay for this game comes about. Just my thoughts on this.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo
06-26-2013, 01:32 AM
SE is starting to build their games on DirectX 11

(...)

This is how they'll be able to put out a PS4 version of XIV in just a year or so.

Except the XIV beta still uses DX9. The game still runs (and runs better) on XP.

Vizzer
06-26-2013, 01:50 AM
XIV will have DX11 support next year, around the time of the PS4 version.

sc4500
06-26-2013, 02:24 AM
The thing that sucks were seeing the slow death of ff11, and it sucks. Seen this from the intellevision, nes,arcade centers, genny, snes, ps1, game cube , ps2 , xbox , and all them in between. This death reminds me of the dreamcast dieing and the end of sega. OR the last couple of weeks ago when all us that enjoyed xbox. Then went back to sony for ps4. We can put all the strawberry and wipe cream on ff11 lasting for the next 6 month. Yet many us see the light and the door to the next side, yet it leave a empty feeling in the gut.


The only hope those of us that are fans for ff11 is that ff14 fails , but it will bankrupt square so were out of that hope.

The other option is they just tell the rest of the world were no longer making games for you guys. Like PSO2 did. FF14 japanese only.

They could embrace the fact there game is a global game and enjoy it and put the right people in charge of there company that respects all Fans and gamers alike across the world. That will enjoy ff14 success and maybe keep ff11 alive. Also Not worry about ff15 for now.

The Sad part they got draconian now on there forums for ff14, With Stuff on there forums on the beta , since people love the game and will complain and they do want to talk about it , to make sure it better. Got the 750 word limit, got a 15 minute time to reply back if your point is off so , unable make it better or worst . There to cheap to get actually people for free I guess from there sites to help moderate the forums.

Cledant
06-26-2013, 02:41 AM
i see so many dramatic posts on this thread, it makes me laugh how many people are on denial or butthurted because they finally realize that ffxi is dead

Jaall
06-26-2013, 03:38 AM
I don't know why people hold on so tightly to FFXI. Honestly, it's not the game it used to be, if it was I'd understand but it's all rose tinted glasses. We all had great times with XI, well most of us anyway. Why are people so insistent on holding onto them times even though they are now non-existent? There are so many complaints on this forum about the game yet every time someone mentions the game dying every goes off crying about how they wish it wasn't.

The way XI was will never be remade into a game, why hold on to the hope that it will be rather than cherish the memories you all once had? People crave the times they all used to have so much that they forget what really matters, and that is the friends you all made over the years, all the great times you had with them, all the places you visited when you first started playing the game and those noob "oh shi..." moments.

Sooner or later things do come to an end, but there is a great replacement at the end of this one, called XIV. It may be different but all those old friends are over there because they've moved on. I wouldn't mind if you played the game for what it is and didn't enjoy it but comparing it to rose-tinted glasses is not healthy and will definitely cloud your vision, so of course you wont like it. There are threads over on the ARR beta forums literally 10+ pages long with old XI players even from the very start of the game and a different thread for every server, and this is only beta. Just wait till the actual release and everybody gets access to those forums. Try the game before you slate it, because it is the closest you'll get to another XI, and it is a fantastic game.

Daemon
06-26-2013, 03:54 AM
I don't know why people hold on so tightly to FFXI. Honestly, it's not the game it used to be, if it was I'd understand but it's all rose tinted glasses. We all had great times with XI, well most of us anyway. Why are people so insistent on holding onto them times even though they are now non-existent? There are so many complaints on this forum about the game yet every time someone mentions the game dying every goes off crying about how they wish it wasn't.

The way XI was will never be remade into a game, why hold on to the hope that it will be rather than cherish the memories you all once had? People crave the times they all used to have so much that they forget what really matters, and that is the friends you all made over the years, all the great times you had with them, all the places you visited when you first started playing the game and those noob "oh shi..." moments.

Sooner or later things do come to an end, but there is a great replacement at the end of this one, called XIV. It may be different but all those old friends are over there because they've moved on. I wouldn't mind if you played the game for what it is and didn't enjoy it but comparing it to rose-tinted glasses is not healthy and will definitely cloud your vision, so of course you wont like it. There are threads over on the ARR beta forums literally 10+ pages long with old XI players even from the very start of the game and a different thread for every server, and this is only beta. Just wait till the actual release and everybody gets access to those forums. Try the game before you slate it, because it is the closest you'll get to another XI, and it is a fantastic game.

It's probably the same reason a person lives somewhere, goes to school, makes friends, settles down and then 2 years later your parents decides its time to move and you end up leaving behind everything you grew to love, your friends, places you will miss, memories...

I'm open to new things, but not everyone is the same. It's like when you see stories about people refusing to leave their homes during a hurricane/tornado warning.

Jaall
06-26-2013, 04:25 AM
I'd understand if this was leaving your home because of a hurricane or something but it's nowhere near that level. This is a game and admittedly a game that I and a lot of people have played a lot over the past 10 years but it is still just a game. We all signed up knowing that 1 day this game will end.

It's more like renting an apartment where the landlord is 80 years old. You know they're gonna die at some point and you'll likely have to move out but you don't know when, so you just keep enjoying it until it dies. It's inevitable and no matter how sad it is, it will happen it's just a matter of time. But there is a new landlord waiting for you across the street with the same type of flat, only modernised for the same price where all your neighbours have moved to but still you wait in the old flat ordering the old person not to die. The best you can do in this situation is just accept it and move on however sad it is.

Daemon
06-26-2013, 04:46 AM
Easy to say but hard for some to accept I'm sure especially to those who spent all that time earning items and gear. I know I've seen some people with multiple REMs. And to spend a decade earning those is not the same as renting an apartment and paying rent lol.
Our subscription fee is like paying rent. SE is the landlord, items we earned is like paying mortgage in hopes of being able to stay longer. Because in reality when you pay mortgage you are making a decision to make that your home. And items people earned gives people a reason to stay and not switch over to another game.

Games like Diablo where items are very easy to obtain and has no value because it didn't take you forever or require a huge group of friends to help you obtain, these type of games are easy to move away from.

Jaall
06-26-2013, 05:04 AM
Sooner or later the landlord will die though and you enter the agreement knowing that all you do will be one day lost. If you went in expecting anything more then you're gonna be disappointed. I had a relic so I know what it feels like but at the end of the day I did get good times from owning a relic and I do not think of it as a waste of time, only of good memories. I'm sorry that people should feel let down but there's nothing anyone can do about that, we all knew it was gonna happen some day. Like I said, best thing is to just move on. If you wanna kick and scream about it then go ahead but unfortunately it wont change that this is a dying game and to a lot of people has already died.

Daemon
06-26-2013, 05:49 AM
Sooner or later the landlord will die though and you enter the agreement knowing that all you do will be one day lost. If you went in expecting anything more then you're gonna be disappointed. I had a relic so I know what it feels like but at the end of the day I did get good times from owning a relic and I do not think of it as a waste of time, only of good memories. I'm sorry that people should feel let down but there's nothing anyone can do about that, we all knew it was gonna happen some day. Like I said, best thing is to just move on. If you wanna kick and scream about it then go ahead but unfortunately it wont change that this is a dying game and to a lot of people has already died.

Lol I'm getting ready to move over to 14 myself so I'm with you. Just saying that others might not.

Jaall
06-26-2013, 06:31 AM
Yea nah didn't mean you kicking and screaming lol. There are a few on here though like the people who say XIV is terrible and will definitely fail. Yea... right lol.

Alerith
06-26-2013, 07:01 AM
1.0 failed because it was a magnificent disaster and neither Tanaka nor the Dev team bothered to listen to player/beta concerns.

The exact opposite can be said about 2.0. Yoshida and the new Dev team actually listen to the Feedback section (And thank god not the General Discussion) and are fairly transparent in many aspects of development. For this reason alone, I'm fairly certain ARR is going to have the opposite outcome of launch-1.0 and end up being a critical success.

Merton9999
06-26-2013, 07:49 AM
You forget that real life musketeers were ALL about ranged combat and had the sword as a last resort if they found themselves in melee. The way archers had knives/axes as a means of self defense.

Musketeer should be designed around ranged DPS through firearms (guns, muskets). RDM (http://www.yare-yare.com/rdm.jpg) should stem from Fencer (http://www.yare-yare.com/fencing.jpg) because, well, it makes sense (fanmade pics, but get the point across).

I just took the time to look at those pics. Nice! Although I'm happy with the classes already in XIV, I do hope for more. New jobs are the most exciting thing to me in any game. The way Fencer and Red Mage are described in those links would be wonderful - truly emphasizing the magic fencer aspect.

While leveling Conjurer in XIV, I did role my eyes when I saw the Mamool-Ja type mob I was killing cast Enaero. Unless I missed it, I don't believe enspells are available to players of any class/job yet, so maybe it's a sign :)

Miiyo
06-26-2013, 09:22 AM
I see many FFXI players giving up on FF14 when they get tired of that WoW combat system. FFXI combat system is slower but much more relaxing and strategic. Well see you guys back here after 1-2 months like it happened at 1.0.

Quote from someone on ffxiv beta forum so i don't have to address this stupid nonsense. You were dead on with relaxing though. I'll give you that.

Alt+tab -> wiki.ffxiclopedia.com -> search "Bat Wings quest" -> look up the coordinates -> ??? -> real satisfaction.

"Wait for TP -> Wait for TP -> Wait for TP -> Wait for TP -> Fast Blade! The Clipper takes 2 damage! -> Wait for TP -> Wait for TP -> Wait for TP -> Fast Blade! The Clipper takes 2 damage!

"The best part about the fight with the Clipper is that I didn't have to spam the same attacks over and over again! I could wait 5 minutes between each input, giving me enough time to strategize!""

This game has a subjob system!! Aaaaaggrrr!

The best kind of difficulty is the difficulty where a monster two levels higher than me can kill me just because it is two levels higher. This is because then I can strategize about obtaining two more levels (the challenge could not be more immense!) and then defeat the fearsome foe. Why do you all hate true challenge of obtaining plus one stat point?

In other words. You lie. There's nothing strategic about FFXI battles at all. Delve NM's make you need to pay attention i guess, but other than that, I see no need for strategy anywhere else in the game.

Daemon
06-26-2013, 12:28 PM
Quote from someone on ffxiv beta forum so i don't have to address this stupid nonsense. You were dead on with relaxing though. I'll give you that.

Alt+tab -> wiki.ffxiclopedia.com -> search "Bat Wings quest" -> look up the coordinates -> ??? -> real satisfaction.

"Wait for TP -> Wait for TP -> Wait for TP -> Wait for TP -> Fast Blade! The Clipper takes 2 damage! -> Wait for TP -> Wait for TP -> Wait for TP -> Fast Blade! The Clipper takes 2 damage!

"The best part about the fight with the Clipper is that I didn't have to spam the same attacks over and over again! I could wait 5 minutes between each input, giving me enough time to strategize!""

This game has a subjob system!! Aaaaaggrrr!

The best kind of difficulty is the difficulty where a monster two levels higher than me can kill me just because it is two levels higher. This is because then I can strategize about obtaining two more levels (the challenge could not be more immense!) and then defeat the fearsome foe. Why do you all hate true challenge of obtaining plus one stat point?

In other words. You lie. There's nothing strategic about FFXI battles at all. Delve NM's make you need to pay attention i guess, but other than that, I see no need for strategy anywhere else in the game.

Nice pic :) moooooaaaar!

Daemon
06-26-2013, 12:31 PM
86 replies and not person hit "Like" :(

BST
06-26-2013, 01:06 PM
1.0 failed because it was a magnificent disaster and neither Tanaka nor the Dev team bothered to listen to player/beta concerns.

The exact opposite can be said about 2.0. Yoshida and the new Dev team actually listen to the Feedback section (And thank god not the General Discussion) and are fairly transparent in many aspects of development. For this reason alone, I'm fairly certain ARR is going to have the opposite outcome of launch-1.0 and end up being a critical success.
Here is why it failed:


I helped mold Final Fantasy XI into one of the best MMO formats on the market, and I wanted to respect the wishes of the team as much as possible when they wanted to make something different with FFXIV, so I tried my best not to meddle too much with development. In the end they weren't able to realize what they were aiming for, which is a shame, but I wish them the best of luck with the reboot.

Merton9999
06-26-2013, 01:08 PM
While I think in total ARR is an improvement on 1.0, I can't help but feel the battle system lost some strategy.

Most of the time I feel like I'm spamming abilities almost mindlessly (on monk anyway) because battles move so fast, there's no time to stop and think "what skill would be really effective here?".

I also find it difficult to really notice some enfeeble effects. For example Archer can Venom an enemy but whether this does any noticeable damage I have no idea because again the battles are so quick I can just spam my hot bar until it dies.

I think this system is appealing at first, it looks flashy and cool but what I love about ffxi is that with some battles you have to make important decisions and in some cases a bad decision will make you die.

I understand what you mean. Well, on melee jobs anyway. On the other hand, THM early levels I found incredibly engaging. Much more so than BLM 1-20 in XI by miles. You still have to be concerned about MP and drop your dps considerably when recovering, but you can remain active. A couple early abilities add a nice bit of thought to soloing if you care to try some mobs a bit above your level too, which was very fun for me.

When I switched to pugilist and lancer, that's where it just felt spammy. However, I had to keep in mind that these are early levels and they probably didn't put as much thought into those early soloing levels on every class. But, on the three classes I got to 10-15, I still found the job-specific quests well designed, requiring smart use of all the jobs' abilities in addition to food and items. I'm not yet balancing a queue of 10 pending actions that change with the situation like I do on SCH 99, but for early levels I was impressed. Overall. I really like that every job can always be active, and not just reactive or afk.

Also, DoT spell potency was increased recently, right before last weekend's beta period. I noticed a nice difference with aero and thunder.

Daemon
06-26-2013, 01:42 PM
All right! Lots of <3 to the 3 people who hit "Like" :)

SqEnisfilledwithgeniuses
06-26-2013, 02:18 PM
I understand what you mean. Well, on melee jobs anyway. On the other hand, THM early levels I found incredibly engaging. Much more so than BLM 1-20 in XI by miles. You still have to be concerned about MP and drop your dps considerably when recovering, but you can remain active. A couple early abilities add a nice bit of thought to soloing if you care to try some mobs a bit above your level too, which was very fun for me.

When I switched to pugilist and lancer, that's where it just felt spammy. However, I had to keep in mind that these are early levels and they probably didn't put as much thought into those early soloing levels on every class. But, on the three classes I got to 10-15, I still found the job-specific quests well designed, requiring smart use of all the jobs' abilities in addition to food and items. I'm not yet balancing a queue of 10 pending actions that change with the situation like I do on SCH 99, but for early levels I was impressed. Overall. I really like that every job can always be active, and not just reactive or afk.

Also, DoT spell potency was increased recently, right before last weekend's beta period. I noticed a nice difference with aero and thunder.

2 ice spell casts in a row gives you umbril ice effect, which massively increases your MP refresh rate. Using the ability (forgot the name) that shifts Astral Fire <> Umbril Ice allows you to empty your mp pool blasting out fire spells, then quickly regenerate it in moments.

I was able to sub the cure spell in on THM and maintain DPS as well as main heal some of the lower tier dungeons. But hell, no strategy there I suppose.

Merton9999
06-26-2013, 02:53 PM
2 ice spell casts in a row gives you umbril ice effect, which massively increases your MP refresh rate. Using the ability (forgot the name) that shifts Astral Fire <> Umbril Ice allows you to empty your mp pool blasting out fire spells, then quickly regenerate it in moments.

I was able to sub the cure spell in on THM and maintain DPS as well as main heal some of the lower tier dungeons. But hell, no strategy there I suppose.

Yeah that's what I was talking about. My point isn't that there's massive strategy there. It's that I managed a few different things (sleep, effective THM curing with the CNJ ability that swaps MND<->INT and MP recovery), and could stay active while doing it, all in a very low level mobile partying atmosphere. My comparison is stationary 10-20 leveling parties on BLM, which were: rest half the fight and throw out a few nukes and a DoT or two. I don't know how the highest levels available now in XIV compare to XI, but I was happy with the low levels on that class compared to XI.

SqEnisfilledwithgeniuses
06-26-2013, 02:57 PM
Yeah that's what I was talking about. My point isn't that there's massive strategy there. It's that I managed a few different things (sleep, effective THM curing with the CNJ ability that swaps MND<->INT and MP recovery), and could stay active while doing it, all in a very low level mobile partying atmosphere. My comparison is stationary 10-20 leveling parties on BLM, which were: rest half the fight and throw out a few nukes and a DoT or two. I don't know how the highest levels available now in XIV compare to XI, but I was happy with the low levels on that class compared to XI.

I agree entirely. The BLM job throughout 1-99 was fairly disappointing to me, as much as SAM was. There are only a few jobs in XI that even require strategy anymore, for the most part people don't even want that.

I'm looking forward to FFXIV. Also, myself and 5 others I know will be taking residence on the Ragnarok server. The more the merrier.

Daemon
06-26-2013, 03:17 PM
I agree entirely. The BLM job throughout 1-99 was fairly disappointing to me, as much as SAM was. There are only a few jobs in XI that even require strategy anymore, for the most part people don't even want that.

I'm looking forward to FFXIV. Also, myself and 5 others I know will be taking residence on the Ragnarok server. The more the merrier.

Because ever so many people complained to SE that exping took forever, so they gave the people what they wanted "Level to 99 in half a day, Grind and gangbang as 18 man groups on level 15 skeleton in Gusgen mines, no more strategy or skill (wait... Does it really take 18 people to kill a level 15 skeleton?), just endless grinding" and now look at the game. Nothing but grind grind grind in 18 man alliances.


Balance??? I don't know what that word means..

SqEnisfilledwithgeniuses
06-26-2013, 03:24 PM
Let's be honest though... Not much battle strategy in "Ok, we're going to go EXP in ToAU. We'll need a rdm, a brd, and 4x sams! Let's dewit!"

Abyssea wasn't the first step, but it didn't help the cause any.

Daemon
06-26-2013, 03:41 PM
Let's be honest though... Not much battle strategy in "Ok, we're going to go EXP in ToAU. We'll need a rdm, a brd, and 4x sams! Let's dewit!"

Abyssea wasn't the first step, but it didn't help the cause any.

Lol yeah been so long I can't remember when the game started to turn for the worse. There's just so many things dating back to prehistorical times.... Exping fast I understand, leveling to 99 in less than half a day killed AH gears and several other things.

But you gotta admit, getting to know people in a 6 man group was more personal than getting to know people in 18 man group with everyone spread out on the map killing stuff.

To me it felt like FFXI Rush Online when I came back last year.

SqEnisfilledwithgeniuses
06-26-2013, 04:37 PM
Lol yeah been so long I can't remember when the game started to turn for the worse. There's just so many things dating back to prehistorical times.... Exping fast I understand, leveling to 99 in less than half a day killed AH gears and several other things.

But you gotta admit, getting to know people in a 6 man group was more personal than getting to know people in 18 man group with everyone spread out on the map killing stuff.

To me it felt like FFXI Rush Online when I came back last year.

When they were doing the Double exp campaigns, I actually formed old 6man groups and exp'd the old fashioned way.

Quifim Island
Saur Champ
Garlaige
etc.

It was a blast.

Zeargi
06-27-2013, 02:51 AM
My first impressions were less than excited... But now. I'm really happy with what I've seen and I am FEVERISHLY seeking to get into my very first beta ever. I never understood why a friend played Everquest so much until I tried FFXI. I've enjoyed the massive amount of time I've spent in Vana'diel and the stories I've got to see. Understanding the world and drawing the lines between the dots that connect these events and quests to those missions and quests. While I am less fond of the names of the races in FFXIV, the customization of characters is AWESOME!! Even the Avatars (Primals?) look amazing!!! So going from one summoner to the next will be my goal. And hopefully continuing my legacy in the next realm. :D

BST
06-27-2013, 10:39 AM
Down the road, in the future, it is only a matter of time before new Job/Classes will find there way into XIV.
The customization of characters is really good, it really shows how 1.0 was to limited. And in the future they talk of plans to introduce new hair styles.

Crusader81
06-28-2013, 05:53 AM
Mooooaaaaar pictures plz.... wow

Ok :-)
http://i43.tinypic.com/34hcdjc.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2r57rex.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/2l9r2wm.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/2yjwmtx.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/j7rwo0.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/2liiree.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/6r283b.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/1zdywr6.jpg
Copyright (C) 2010 - 2013 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. All Rights Reserved.

Daemon
06-28-2013, 06:40 AM
Lol that looks just way too cool not to try FF14. I'm convinced!

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo
06-28-2013, 08:32 AM
Just what we all need: high-definition chocobo butt.

BST
06-28-2013, 09:10 AM
You can get HD Chocobo butt in XI on 360!

Oh wait, they lied!! its just upscaled :/

Alerith
06-28-2013, 11:12 AM
You can get HD Chocobo butt in XI on 360!

Oh wait, they lied!! its just upscaled :/

360 limitations.

Mifaco
06-28-2013, 12:00 PM
Question for XIV players

Are there any vestiges of stupid FFXI limitations?
Can you alt tab?
Can you get search results for more than 50 people at one time?
Do you have to login through an incredibly antiquated system? Do you have to type your password each time or does it remember it?
Are quests clear on what you need to do?
Can you solo past level 15 or so?
Is the UI clear and intuitive?
Is the FPS capped to 30 like FFXI? Or is it more?
How is quality of life compared to FFXI? Any stupid timesinks? Can you teleport easily?

Alpheus
06-28-2013, 12:12 PM
Gonna number your questions and address em as such:
1. Not that I can see, it's currently in development for PS4 which will utilize DirectX 11 so any limitations would be PS3 limitations but I don't see it being an issue until well down the road and by then PS4 would be affordable if anything OR since they can build it up from where it is now to DirectX 11 that would mean they can do it again. (easier said than done but the capability is there on display)
2. yes you can Alt+Tab
3. Havent used the search function come to think >.>;
4 only 1 login utilizing your SE ID and password in the game launcher
5. Quests are very clear on what you must do and alert you to any level sync that might occur should you be doing a quest that involves fighting.
6. Yes you can solo past lvl 15.
7. yes UI is clear and intuitive one example is that you can change from gamepad to KB and Mouse with 1 click of a icon in the config menu and any preferences made are kept in between input method switches.
8. FPS is at 60 FPS for the PC version I wanna say the same is for the PS3 version but I cant honestly say.
9. You can D2 right from the start. You start w/ a sprinting ability, 20 second duration and 30second cool down. Once you find more crystals to teleport to you learn teleport. Each teleport costs gil unless you add them to faves in which case they are less expensive. you can have up to 3 Faves at once.

Merton9999
06-28-2013, 01:19 PM
I'll just add to Alpheus' answers:

Can you get search results for more than 50 people at one time?
The beta limit was 200 results the last time I searched.

Are quests clear on what you need to do?
Quests you're eligible for are marked as exclamations on your map. Every accepted quest is listed in your journal, with pictures of the NPCs that initiated them. Each one has a Map button you can click to see exactly where to go in the world for the next step. There are some exceptions, notably when you're told to "Find" things specifically, but they still give you a general area. When you're told to farm animal parts, there is a red circle on the map indicating where that type of mob spawns. In addition to being listed in your journal, your last 5(?) quests are flagged as active automatically and added directly to your full-time UI so they're always there while running around. You can turn these off and on. You can click on them in the UI and bring up the journal page. Last, for fights, the NPCs usually give a vague hint at a strategy, at least up till the level 15 ones. They will say something like "Look out for its poison!" or "Careful use of the sleep spell...". These are the introductory quests, not sure how much that continues. Some people call this hand-holding, I call it "don't look at the journal if you don't want to know", while the rest of us don't have to search Wikis if we have an hour to play every day.

Is the UI clear and intuitive?
It's quite spectacular, actually. When I want to switch jobs I click the mouse once anywhere in the world, my job changes, and all my gear is automatically swapped due to saved gear sets. Full maps can remain open (and resized) as you run around and become translucent so you can see your activity through them. FATE locations (think Campaign/Besieged/NM spawns) are clearly marked. Gamepad integration is fast and intuitive. You can customize the UI, moving most parts of it to any part of the screen. Want your HP and MP on the top of the screen? Just drag them there. All active effects have time remaining, including mobs' enfeebles displayed above them, all cooldowns are graphically visible. They need to work on the chat log a bit, but that's been my only feedback suggestion about the UI.

Vil
06-28-2013, 01:59 PM
Question for XIV players

1.) Are there any vestiges of stupid FFXI limitations?
2.) Can you alt tab?
3.) Can you get search results for more than 50 people at one time?
4.) Do you have to login through an incredibly antiquated system? Do you have to type your password each time or does it remember it?
5.) Are quests clear on what you need to do?
6.) Can you solo past level 15 or so?
7.) Is the UI clear and intuitive?
8.) Is the FPS capped to 30 like FFXI? Or is it more?
9.) How is quality of life compared to FFXI? Any stupid timesinks? Can you teleport easily?

1. No.
2. Yes.
3. Yes. (200 is current limit)
4. No. Simple login screen where you input your SE ID and PW. You do have to put in your password each time, but that is how SE's account management system works in general, not just XIV.
5. Yes. There are icons above character's heads where quests are available. There are two main icons, a (!) for general quests, and a firey (!) indicating they are Main Scenario quests. Additionally, you have icons indicating inbetween steps, like where you need to go to pick up a branch or where to feed the chocobos, etc. Even without these icons, the quests are easy enough if you read, you'll know where to go.

6. You can solo all the way to 50 if you so choose to do, through FATE, levequests, quests. I'm not sure about ARR, but in 1.0, there was some party aspects, though generally people didn't start partying until 42, because there was a camp where you could hit 50 in roughly 3 hours of exp time. In ARR, you start forming parties around lvl 15 to take on the dungeons, which are actually good exp and drop very good gear that will last well into the 20s.

7. Yes, very easy to use. You can also drag and rearrange the boxes and widgets, change font sizes etc.

8. There's three options for FPS, 30, 60, or unlimited.

9. In ARR, from what I've played through, there's no real "time sinks" like we know them in XI. That doesn't mean however, that you'll fly to level 50 in 5 hrs lol. But rest assured, while leveling up and questing, you won't even know how much time is passed until you look at your clock. xD

As for teleportation, in 1.0 you used what's called "anima" which is the equivalent of Kinetic things you expend when you use the Waypoints that were added with Adoulin. In 1.0 there was really no way to replenish this until towards the end when they added ways to boost it.

In ARR, anima was scrapped and you use gil now. The further the telepoint is away, the more its going to cost you, unless you "favorite" the location (I think you can have a max of like 3 favorites, I could be wrong on that though). Anyone can teleport, no spell is required. The only thing that's required is that you have to physically visit the crystal points first, and click them to attune yourself to them.

Crusader81
07-01-2013, 10:18 AM
I can't think of one issue they haven't fixed in ARR.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2i886qr.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/rlbyfa.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/jqpcfp.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/2qnzfdc.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/axe104.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/33kabk4.jpg

Runespider
07-01-2013, 09:19 PM
As a FFXI vet I have to say that XIV has very little in common with our game, there is really nothing that would make you feel "at home" as an XI player any more than you would get from GW2 or WoW..well aside from the races, which imo don't do justice to the originals anyway.

It has more in common with WoW and GW2 than FFXI. It does nothing better than any other mmo you can get on the market honestly. Graphics, combat, story, leveling, community are all better on various other games. I can't think of one single thing ARR has that can be said sets it above any other wow clone that you can play now.

Vil
07-01-2013, 09:28 PM
As a FFXI vet I have to say that XIV has very little in common with our game, there is really nothing that would make you feel "at home" as an XI player any more than you would get from GW2 or WoW..well aside from the races, which imo don't do justice to the originals anyway.

It has more in common with WoW and GW2 than FFXI. It does nothing better than any other mmo you can get on the market honestly. Graphics, combat, story, leveling, community are all better on various other games. I can't think of one single thing ARR has that can be said sets it above any other wow clone that you can play now.

I see "WoW clone" and immediately stop taking you seriously. Lol. Did you play for 5 min and ragequit cause it wasn't exactly like XI?

There is plenty to make people feel at home, if they are open-minded to begin with. The "WoW clone" is simply what the MMO standards are today. Switch XIV and XI, and I'm sure you'd be screaming "EQ CLONE EWW".

What you fail to realize is that all games, and all creative works for that matter, always take some kind of influences from other sources. Rock bands frequently mention Kiss and the Beatles and the Rolling Stones as inspiration. Does that mean these newer bands suck? No. They draw inspiration from earlier works, but still maintain their own style.

XI certainly didn't invent the wheel, sorry to burst your bubble. It took a lot of influences from the games of its time, specifically Everquest. Why is it okay for XI to be an "EQ clone" but heaven forbid XIV be a "WoW clone"? Double standard much?

I get it, you love XI. I do too. I come back to it periodically, even though my prime has passed and I no longer can play like I used to. XI's current problems concern me just like they concern you, especially coming from a casual player's point of view.

Does that mean, then, that being bitter about XIV will make XI all rainbows and sunshine again? No. Snubbing your nose at it in some kind of attempt to be "loyal" to XI really serves no purpose other than make you look immature and bitter.

Nobody says you have to play it, and not everyone will like it. These things I understand. But when you make comments with no basis other than "its a WoW clone", then well, you're not going to win any sympathy.

Runespider
07-01-2013, 11:48 PM
You say you don't take me seriously then write a long post in reply to me.

The reason WoW clone is bad is because every single mmo that comes out is the same thing, and they all force you to do the same thing. Quest based leveling, instanced content, boring combat mashing keys on cd. That's why it's bad, because it's a carbon copy of every other mmo that we have played offering something we already got bored of in WoW/Rift/Swtor. At least when they gave us FFXI it was offering something that hadn't really been done to death or that was new to many of us.

WoW clone.

Quest based leveling, this isn't FFXI where you make groups to kill mobs to level. I've done these quests in XIV and they're the same boring thing I did in WoW, Rift...etc They are boring kill count quests. This alone makes XIV alien to XI players, you won't be making groups to kill monsters to level and make friends.
Very solo and casual friendly game.
Majority instanced based content. Only open world content XIV has or will ever have (as stated by Yoshi) is fates which honestly are horribly boring after you do a few. Fates are copied from Gw2 and it got boring there too after you do it a few times.
Combat based on spamming keys on a global (lol) cooldown.
Instance matching to pair you up with other random people you don't have to talk to.

Sounds like a WoW clone to me.

The guy in charge even said they looked to WoW, GW2 and SWTOR to lead them in redesigning the game just as they did with everquest to design XI. I understand you are probably an XIV fan posting here to try and drum up excitement for your game of choice but it doesn't change the fact it is what it is.

Alerith
07-01-2013, 11:53 PM
You say you don't take me seriously then write a long post in reply to me.

The reason WoW clone is bad is because every single mmo that comes out is the same thing, and they all force you to do the same thing. Quest based leveling, instanced content, boring combat mashing keys on cd. That's why it's bad, because it's a carbon copy of every other mmo that we have played offering something we already got bored of in WoW/Rift/Swtor. At least when they gave us FFXI it was offering something that hadn't really been done to death or that was new to many of us.

WoW clone.

Quest based leveling, this isn't FFXI where you make groups to kill mobs to level. I've done these quests in XIV and they're the same boring thing I did in WoW, Rift...etc They are boring kill count quests. This alone makes XIV alien to XI players, you won't be making groups to kill monsters to level and make friends.
Very solo and casual friendly game.
Majority instanced based content. Only open world content XIV has or will ever have (as stated by Yoshi) is fates which honestly are horribly boring after you do a few. Fates are copied from Gw2 and it got boring there too after you do it a few times.
Combat based on spamming keys on a global (lol) cooldown.
Instance matching to pair you up with other random people you don't have to talk to.

Sounds like a WoW clone to me.

The guy in charge even said they looked to WoW, GW2 and SWTOR to lead them in redesigning the game just as they did with everquest to design XI. I understand you are probably an XIV fan posting here to try and drum up excitement for your game of choice but it doesn't change the fact it is what it is.

So they take the best systems from a variety of games and put it into a Final Fantasy MMORPG.

Cool, I'm sold.

See, for me at least, it doesn't need anything innovative to be good. It doesn't need some gimmick the marketing team plays on to try and sell it as some unique special snowflake. It's a fun and functional game set in a Final Fantasy universe. That's all I want out of it and that's all I expect.

Everybody acts like every MMO that comes out needs to reinvent the genre, and I say that's bullshit. Play a game because it's fun, it has a setting you like and it has systems that work.

Crusader81
07-02-2013, 12:09 AM
they've combined a great Quest/Dungeon MMO with Real Time Action Events, with the story, graphics, and Lore of a FF game. Housing will be something that's VERY reminiscent of FFXI for me of FFXI Mog Houses, but they've taken it to the 100th level.

Not to mention Limit breaks
Chocobo Buddies you summon like NPC from XI
Materia
Avatar fights like in XI (but way better)

What's not to love?

Runespider
07-02-2013, 12:11 AM
If you are fine with playing a bland carbon copy of every other mmo then maybe it is for you, it doesn't really seem to have any soul to the game honestly, it's like something a room full of suits put together by copying stuff from other companies that put more though into their games. There is nothing unique or exciting in XIV at all and that is one of the major reasons you will log into it and just rush to cap for "endgame". You won't make a group to level with and make friends, you'ill do boring quest after boring quest and do instanced dungeons when the cross server matcher finally makes the group for you. You won't get the vast array of different content XI had and you won't get the community built out of party based leveling.

For me I want something unique in a new mmo that will make the massive investment of my time and money worthwhile, the majority of MMO players are really not easy to satisfy these days (look at the massive player drop in Gw2) because they've seen this "ingredients to make an mmo" over and over again and with a game that cost as much to create as XIV did being bland and unoriginal as it is not going to ensure it gets the large long-term following it needs.

XIV has nice graphics which don't really beat what's out there now or have the charm of XI imo (and certainly not the newer games coming out soon) it has nothing from XI which made it great and it simply copies the norm of every other newer mmo. Maybe you think that's the key to success? Offer a product totally unlike the previous one that was successfull and offer a bland copy of every other new mmo that failed to beat the product it was based on.

If as a XI player you are looking to get into XIV thinking you will be playing something very much like XI but prettier you will be sorely dissapointed. XIV is nothing like XI at all, it's as far away from it as you can get without paying a sub to Blizzard. If you are on the fence just go and play the beta for free, actually playing the game does far more than looking at some pretty pictures that tell you nothing about the game.

Vizzer
07-02-2013, 01:32 AM
There is nothing unique or exciting in XIV at all and that is one of the major reasons you will log into it and just rush to cap for "endgame". You won't make a group to level with and make friends, you'ill do boring quest after boring quest and do instanced dungeons when the cross server matcher finally makes the group for you. You won't get the vast array of different content XI had and you won't get the community built out of party based leveling.

Let's look at XI, before any expansions, because why is it ok to compare a game with 11 years worth of updates, with a game that people have only seen beta content up to level 25. When XI released you didn't have all the things like Sea and Sky that old XI players always fall back on when asked what made the game so great, you had 50 levels of boring quests and the main story missions. If you think the quests in XIV are boring, because they are go fetch this, or go kill these, that is what the XI quests were, how did you raise your Bastok fame, get a fish, kill a crab, turn in an item, over and over and over again. So all you have left is party based leveling, something XI itself eventually ended up weeding out. The design of XIV is made to make it easy for newcomers to MMO's to learn and progress. It is designed so that years down the road, if someone new to the game picks it up, they will be able to progress through the game at a decent pace, even though there might not be alot of people their level around. This is one of the things that is killing XI now, the gap between new and old players, new and returning players aren't sticking with the game, because it simply takes too much time to get caught up, and there aren't enough players around willing to help do the content that takes groups to do. And if you think players in XI don't rush to the endgame, let's have a look at this last little bit of content, there were some flaws when it was first released, that allowed players to basically exploit the KI bosses, taking hours to kill them by just blindly throwing bodies at them and teleporting back. Once this issue was fixed with the time limit, people didn't go back and do Skirmish, they just farmed plasm, they used an exploit to skip an entire tier of endgame content, I know this was an oversight by the devs, but it shows that maybe the community in XI is all about rushing to endgame, something you say they won't enjoy doing in XIV.

The duty finder, what is so bad about that, instead of standing in one city shouting for hours to find enough people to fill your delve party, you just que up, and you can go out and gather, craft, farm, whatever until it places you into a group, from a much larger pool of people than just your server, making it easier to group. One thing that it doesn't do, is give the person making the group the ability to screen the people, you don't have R/M/E/D, you aren't welcome here, but if you want to be that kind of d-bag, then you can stand in town and shout if you want, that is called an option.

As far as a battle system, there really isn't much else you can do out there, either hot bars, or menus, XIV went with hotbars, big deal, that doesn't make it a WoW clone. I agree, if you don't know if you want to play it, go try the beta, it isn't XI-2, and there are lots of people that think that is a good thing.

Vil
07-02-2013, 05:18 AM
Waste of a good post :) It's just more bitterness, like XI was some special snowflake when it came out. This is the same person that wanted F2P after all.

Umichi
07-02-2013, 05:27 AM
I thought xi was a snowflake compared to other games... still do.... even compared to xiv... what makes the game is it's uniqueness... now i haven't played xiv, but it seems like they got to finally making a game that actually helps you complete the game for completions sake while also adding challenges and a way of fighting that is unique to ffxi albeit tweaked a little to introduce it to modern mmo.... they still allow you to auto attack... and instead of writing macros you now have a convenient hotbar which is customized to using a controller or pc...

will i drop ffxi for xiv? no because i still have alot to do on xi..... while i try it out? eventually...

Finuve
07-02-2013, 06:56 AM
I'm pretty sure the words "MMO Standards" are the reason this genre has become so boring and stale

Crusader81
07-02-2013, 11:32 AM
At least some people are skeptical but willing to try XIV.

It's still in a closed BETA and has 1 million+ players. I've played every NA Final Fanatasy and RPG from SE since Mystic Quest and I can tell you if you're a FF fan missing XIV is completely your loss.

XI had great lore, and original ideas, but for once I'm seeing SE utilize all the amazing FF lore, and things that worked from previous games into one "True FF MMO" They've borrowed from

FF1: Warriors of Light
FF3: Crystal Tower
http://i44.tinypic.com/r03510.jpg
FF4: Dragoon AF, and some story
FF5: Jobs system
FF6: Magitek Riders, Empire
FF7: Materia, Aetheryte, Golden Saucer, Limit Breaks
FF11: Races, Monsters, 3 base cities, numerious other things,
FF12: Judge like Emperial Legetus's & Hunting Logs
http://i43.tinypic.com/1pgyzk.jpg
FF13: numerious monsters, ideas

AND FFXIV:
Quests
in depth Crafting & Gathering
Primals and new beast tribes
Housing
unique story
new lore
new battlesystem
Many more new things..

This shows a good selection
http://youtu.be/HHnxfrvgdqw

Vil
07-02-2013, 11:40 AM
"The Red Moon" in reference to Dalamud is also a tiny homage to FF IV =D

Demon6324236
07-02-2013, 11:51 AM
Nothing from FFX saddens me greatly.

Alerith
07-02-2013, 01:34 PM
If you are fine with playing a bland carbon copy of every other mmo then maybe it is for you, it doesn't really seem to have any soul to the game honestly, it's like something a room full of suits put together by copying stuff from other companies that put more though into their games. There is nothing unique or exciting in XIV at all and that is one of the major reasons you will log into it and just rush to cap for "endgame". You won't make a group to level with and make friends, you'ill do boring quest after boring quest and do instanced dungeons when the cross server matcher finally makes the group for you. You won't get the vast array of different content XI had and you won't get the community built out of party based leveling.

For me I want something unique in a new mmo that will make the massive investment of my time and money worthwhile, the majority of MMO players are really not easy to satisfy these days (look at the massive player drop in Gw2) because they've seen this "ingredients to make an mmo" over and over again and with a game that cost as much to create as XIV did being bland and unoriginal as it is not going to ensure it gets the large long-term following it needs.

XIV has nice graphics which don't really beat what's out there now or have the charm of XI imo (and certainly not the newer games coming out soon) it has nothing from XI which made it great and it simply copies the norm of every other newer mmo. Maybe you think that's the key to success? Offer a product totally unlike the previous one that was successfull and offer a bland copy of every other new mmo that failed to beat the product it was based on.

If as a XI player you are looking to get into XIV thinking you will be playing something very much like XI but prettier you will be sorely dissapointed. XIV is nothing like XI at all, it's as far away from it as you can get without paying a sub to Blizzard. If you are on the fence just go and play the beta for free, actually playing the game does far more than looking at some pretty pictures that tell you nothing about the game.

You have have no argument whatsoever. This is bandwagon hate at its finest.

You state no whys. You give no reasons. You say the game is bland and has no soul, simply because it uses systems that have been proven to work?

I'm actually glad you aren't going to play it. I feel sorry for any server you would end up going to with that kind of idiotic attitude.

Rekin
07-02-2013, 02:05 PM
By Runespider's logic every car/tv/etc must bring something new to it instead of taking what works and improving/flavoring them.

Zhronne
07-02-2013, 04:19 PM
I'm pretty sure the words "MMO Standards" are the reason this genre has become so boring and stale
Now go explain that to game producers and to the public as well.

Ravenmore
07-02-2013, 06:48 PM
Look at how they treated 11 while it was making them money hand over fist and all the blunder along the way from the devs. Most likely dictated by the higher ups to drag out content as long as they could anyway possible, using 1% drop rates, 24 hour spawns, pitting the players against each to claim those spawns so on.

So ask your self this can you really expect not to be treated like that again or do you have confidence that SE would be willing to devote the resources needed to follow the WoW model of the gear treadmill. Before some one says it won't be like WoW with a gear treadmill then what would it be like, follow the EQ/FFXI model which they seem to be moving away from and since they failed so badly at being different the higher ups are not going to allow for anything else that is unproven. I personally can enjoy both WoW treadmill or the grind of EQ/FFXI but I just can't see SE having the resources or willingness to do it right to support a decent gear treadmill.

Vil
07-02-2013, 07:00 PM
Look at how they treated 11 while it was making them money hand over fist and all the blunder along the way from the devs. Most likely dictated by the higher ups to drag out content as long as they could anyway possible, using 1% drop rates, 24 hour spawns, pitting the players against each to claim those spawns so on.

So ask your self this can you really expect not to be treated like that again or do you have confidence that SE would be willing to devote the resources needed to follow the WoW model of the gear treadmill. Before some one says it won't be like WoW with a gear treadmill then what would it be like, follow the EQ/FFXI model which they seem to be moving away from and since they failed so badly at being different the higher ups are not going to allow for anything else that is unproven. I personally can enjoy both WoW treadmill or the grind of EQ/FFXI but I just can't see SE having the resources or willingness to do it right to support a decent gear treadmill.

Your concerns about direction given XI's past history are valid, and while I cannot predict the future, I can say that the outlook is by far more promising than I'd ever seen in XI's history (I've been around since NA launch back in October 2003).

To start with, we have different directors/producers at the wheel. XI's lifecycle was mostly led by Hiromichi Tanaka, whom I dubbed a "brick wall". Under his direction, there was almost no community input, dev responses or updates, or even interviews. The only times people could really approach him or his team was at the Vana/Fanfestivals, and most of the time, we were given one of two responses "I don't know" [hi Sage Sundi!] or "We'll look into it".

Back during his time, the idea of official forums was brought up A LOT, and I wish I could find it, but I specifically remember Tanaka responding with "we have no plans for running an official forum. It would require too much resources to man them in multiple languages."

Fastforward 2011, we get XI forums. Hurray! Now we get to offer feedback and we get to have a closer relationship with the devs than before. Guess what? Tanaka is no longer in charge! (yes I know he came back for a brief stint, but he was just as quickly out the door again xD)

The same scenario happened over at XIV as soon as Tanaka resigned. Almost immediately, Yoshida began a relationship with the community, giving us some kind of commentary on what was going on at their end, what his future plans were, and how he was going to go about implementing said things. He has maintained this constant involvement with the community, and it shows.

Yoshida is the reason I have hope XIV won't go down the same, brickwall path XI suffered for so many years. It is a shame that XI spent so many years closed off from the devs that naturally many are untrusting of the direction the game is going. I can only hope that whatever it is Matsui is planning, that he does so carefully and meaningfully. As always, I may not be an active player, but I have always followed the update notes to see what is going on in the development cycle, and I try to keep optimistic that one day this game will see some good days again.

Ravenmore
07-02-2013, 07:47 PM
While having different producers and directors they still have the same higher ups that will be controlling the purse strings. The people in charge of the money will be rather tight with it seeing how 14 was the straw that broke SE's back and lead to massive losses for the company. Yes they put a lot of money into the rebuild but you can bet they have taken that from some where else long the way for 14 most likely from the first expansions budget.

While we can shout all day that it is a completely different game investors won't give two craps about that and only see FF14 as a venture that lost money, SE is aware of this as well since they didn't mention 14 once during their E3 event which is aimed mostly at investors. I fear that if it doesn't live up to investors expectations(which can be unrealistic) then expansions will be slow coming which would not sit well with the gear treadmill type MMO.

Vil
07-02-2013, 07:51 PM
What investors are you talking about, specifically? It's been stated at least twice that SE has funded XIV entirely on their own money, therefore they don't have to pay any investors back. The only other company that is capable of doing the same thing is Blizzard.

Infidi
07-02-2013, 08:09 PM
I think all their money woes would disappear if they released a sequel to the FF: Spirits Within movie. :D It was such a huge success! D: (But seriously, I liked it anyway. XD)

Runespider
07-02-2013, 08:51 PM
FFXIV: A realm stillborn.

I'll be happy to see it flop and they will be forced to re-invest into FFXI.

Vil
07-02-2013, 09:04 PM
FFXIV: A realm stillborn.

I'll be happy to see it flop and they will be forced to re-invest into FFXI.

Keep dreaming. If it dies, XI dies too, and so does the entire company.

Haters gonna hate '-'

Zhronne
07-02-2013, 10:18 PM
FFXIV: A realm stillborn.

I'll be happy to see it flop and they will be forced to re-invest into FFXI.
As much as I would welcome a "FFXI: A Realm Reborn" it's not gonna happen.
If FFXIV ARR fails, likely all of SE is gonna go down, so logically FFXI would too...

Well, not like FFXI isn't going down already lol xD

Vil
07-02-2013, 10:28 PM
If anything, you should be praying XIV does well >.> more revenue means more bankroll for more devs and more devs can mean a possible overhaul...shoot we might even get them to drop the ps2! /miraclesdohappen

Runespider
07-02-2013, 11:20 PM
Not at all, the better XIV does the more FFXI will be left to die. Not that I actually think XIV ARR will be a success, playing it has shown me of that.

When XIV flops and gets player numbers like XIV V1 did XI will dwarf it in profits again, that's the point you make sure the money keeps flowing in and where you really look after what you have that makes money. XIV flopping won't do anything but embarass the company and put lots of effort back into XI, it won't cripple them. It just isn't that important.

The single best thing that can happen to XI is XIV failing again, anything else is the nail in the coffin of this game. XIV will smother the life out of XI very quickly if it does well.

No matter how you want to slice it, these 2 games are direct competition for each other. Nothing good can come from XIV doing well for this game or its community. Competition for FF players, syphoning off of development staff and money. The only people that say otherwise are the XIV players here preaching it about their competing game. XIV is as direct competition and as dangerous to XI as World of warcraft was, it shoudl be treated as such.

Jaall
07-02-2013, 11:43 PM
Wow, some people are so closed minded. FFXIV is already a huge success, and it's in beta, just wait till the release. If you feel this is a WoW clone there is no helping you, and people shouldn't even bother. NEWS FLASH - I'm pretty sure Yoshi himself stated that the failure of ARR is to the point of "company breaking". There is nowhere else for XI to turn, they lost a lot of their playerbase and weren't getting enough new players anyway due to the fact that it's not easy for new players to join the game. The only way up for XI would be to recreate the grind game you all expect, and trust me that really is not going to happen, so keep dreaming.

Runespider you come across as incredibly angry about XIV doing well. I actually feel sorry for you, genuinely, because XIV will inevitably do well. Have you played the game? Have you viewed the forums? It's already a success and the plans they have mentioned sound 100x better than any generic MMO on the market today. Of course content may vary but I have no doubts that SE will deliver, and it will go far. If you hold onto XI you're going to be disappointed either way. If FFXIV fails, XI will die a lot faster than if it succeeds.

SE own FFXI and XIV, so the 2 competing is not even worth worrying about because no matter what happens, they get the money. They knew XI was losing players and was getting old with the PS2 system limitations from 10 years ago so created a replacement that they could keep upgrading by developing it for PC. The overall MMO community however has also moved on with technology and there are certain aspects that have to stay if they are to bring in new players. If they recreate an exact carbon copy of XI, the only players they will get are veteran XI players and that certainly isn't enough for them to make their money back.

By using aspects from other successful MMO's that are easy to navigate and figure out due to their popular nature (UI/Questing system) they can attract players that have never before played an MMO, more so than any computer based MMO due to the release on consoles and Japanese player base. This will undoubtedly bring in a lot more players than just releasing XI-2. They've also kept so much from the Final Fantasy series, and bits and pieces from almost every single Final Fantasy game. Somebody mentioned on the beta forums that they also had plans to add famous bosses from all over the series. Demon Wall, Omega, Gilgamesh are all confirmed with others mentioned later on in the game.

To say this is not a Final Fantasy because it has a similar UI to other MMO's is ridiculous, honestly. If you do not want to play because it is not your precious XI then that's fine, but you are seriously missing out on what could potentially be one of the best new MMO's in a very long time. Your close-minded nature will let you down I can assure you that.

Runespider
07-02-2013, 11:57 PM
Looking forward to XIV sinking and XI getting the money and devs it deserves is all. This is a post about a competing MMO on the XI forum, I don't have to be polite about a game I dislike and is competition for mine. Go post on your own game forum and if you thought it was going to do so well you wouldn't be trying to convert XI players with all the XIV love posts or defending it at the speed of light would you?

Jaall
07-03-2013, 12:04 AM
I don't need to convert people and am only defending it against your stupidity, but in reality it doesn't need defending it's doing well enough on its own. The last I'm going to say to you and the only thing I need to say to you is wait and see. You're inevitably going to be disappointed.

Sparthos
07-03-2013, 12:15 AM
Looking forward to XIV sinking and XI getting the money and devs it deserves is all. This is a post about a competing MMO on the XI forum, I don't have to be polite about a game I dislike and is competition for mine. Go post on your own game forum and if you thought it was going to do so well you wouldn't be trying to convert XI players with all the XIV love posts or defending it at the speed of light would you?

XI is finished either way, you might as well just enjoy what little fun it still has yet to give you. All the hope for XIVs success or failure doesn't change the fact XI is on the decline both in players and resources.

If XIV fails its more likely XI could further suffer from cost cutting measures as SE attempts to reel from a double whammy of losses. I highly doubt they'd pull this game as it's a cash cow but the cow would definitely go on a bare bones plan if it already isn't. Really, you should look to XIVs success as the game carries on the spirit of FFXI to a new generation of customers and players.

The FFXI of 2013 isn't the FFXI of 2005 anyway.

Vizzer
07-03-2013, 01:23 AM
Not at all, the better XIV does the more FFXI will be left to die. Not that I actually think XIV ARR will be a success, playing it has shown me of that.

When XIV flops and gets player numbers like XIV V1 did XI will dwarf it in profits again, that's the point you make sure the money keeps flowing in and where you really look after what you have that makes money. XIV flopping won't do anything but embarass the company and put lots of effort back into XI, it won't cripple them. It just isn't that important.

The single best thing that can happen to XI is XIV failing again, anything else is the nail in the coffin of this game. XIV will smother the life out of XI very quickly if it does well.

No matter how you want to slice it, these 2 games are direct competition for each other. Nothing good can come from XIV doing well for this game or its community. Competition for FF players, syphoning off of development staff and money. The only people that say otherwise are the XIV players here preaching it about their competing game. XIV is as direct competition and as dangerous to XI as World of warcraft was, it shoudl be treated as such.
New CEO of SE said the profitable games/projects will get money, why does XI have less devs now, because they reduced the number of people they had to pay to make it still bring in money with their declining subscriptions. XIV failing, which I doubt it will, wouldn't do XI any good, unless XI got a large influx of people from XIV, and that's not going to happen. The numbers for XI were falling before the beta for XIV. XI will loose some for the launch of XIV, which will mean less subs for XI, so less resources for XI. If XIV fails, not all of those people that left XI for XIV will go back, they left because they were looking for something else to begin with, but XI will get some back, so they may get an increase in resources, but not enough to bring it back to where it is now. The current community right now is the biggest hope XI has, if they keep on putting new players down, and not accepting the fact that their game needs to change to bring in more numbers, they will just keep driving people away, until the game shuts down, thus upsetting the developers working on the game, so they will quit, and move onto Hello Kitty Online, infusing it with all of the ideas the short sighted community of XI refused to accept, making it a global juggernaut.

Spectreman
07-03-2013, 02:34 AM
I think Square Enix will be shutting down sooner than we expect. Not ff11, ff114, but the company itself. They still do the same mistakes previous big softhouses did in the past and were shutdown.

DarkStoneDragon
07-03-2013, 05:16 AM
Listen, I personally don't know if FFXIV will be a big success, I hope it does very well, but if it does well or if it flops I really don't think it'll cause doom for SE, SE is a great company that has a lot of great games, sure the Final Fantasy franchise will take yet another rep. hit, but IF it does flop, fans like me will still support SE and FF. Like my Wife says "we need to stop the forum bickering, the community is the most damaging part of FFXI/FFXIV life, because everyone is fighting and trashing one or the other games" like I posted in another thread we'll play both games, and support SE and Final Fantasy reguardless of FFXI or FFXIV outcome, who knows we may find that both can co-exist for years.

Demon6324236
07-03-2013, 06:54 AM
FFXIV: A realm stillborn.

I'll be happy to see it flop and they will be forced to re-invest into FFXI.The naivety of this post... is astounding. Do you really think with all of the problems this company has been having with Final Fantasy in general as of late that they would put more money into this sinking ship once they lose an enormous investment of money on not just 1 FFXIV, but a second reborn version?! That is flat out hilarious that you believe they would do something so idiotic.

Vil
07-03-2013, 07:24 AM
Listen, I personally don't know if FFXIV will be a big success, I hope it does very well, but if it does well or if it flops I really don't think it'll cause doom for SE, SE is a great company that has a lot of great games, sure the Final Fantasy franchise will take yet another rep. hit, but IF it does flop, fans like me will still support SE and FF. Like my Wife says "we need to stop the forum bickering, the community is the most damaging part of FFXI/FFXIV life, because everyone is fighting and trashing one or the other games" like I posted in another thread we'll play both games, and support SE and Final Fantasy reguardless of FFXI or FFXIV outcome, who knows we may find that both can co-exist for years.

Except it was stated before that SE cannot afford for XIV to fail, or the whole company sinks. I'll try to find the interview xD

I too will keep supporting SE, either by console games or through XI/XIV, but people who hope XIV will fail in hopes that XI will get a facelift are just kidding themselves.

Demon6324236
07-03-2013, 07:47 AM
I think Square Enix will be shutting down sooner than we expect. Not ff11, ff114, but the company itself. They still do the same mistakes previous big softhouses did in the past and were shutdown.The company itself still makes a lot of money off of its other games, only Final Fantasy has really been going down hill as of late, Tomb Raider & Hitman did well so far as I know, Dragon Quest is still doin well so far as I know, they have a lot of other smaller games, and lets not forget Kingdom Hearts, which is a fantastic game, and has 1.5 as well as III coming out. The company itself is doing well for the most part I think, but Final Fantasy, its going to hell right now, unless FFXIII-3, FFXIV, and FFXV do some good things to pull it back up as well as FFX/-2HD if it does well, after all it was one of their best in my opinion as well as many others. All in all Final Fantasy right now has a chance at either messing up again, or remaking a name for itself, but I think SE as a company will survive either way most likely. The biggest problem I think they have overall is they spread themselves to thin, because it seems like they have at very least 6~8 things in the works, if not more, between X/-2HD, XIII-3, XIV, XV, KH1.5, KHIII, and maybe more, just 6 games from their main series alone though.

Alpheus
07-03-2013, 08:05 AM
Tomb Raider and Hitman and Sleeping Dogs were considered failures by SE because they did not meet self expectations of units sold. It was a case of unrealistic expectations on the part of SE.

Dragoy
07-03-2013, 09:47 PM
Are there any vestiges of stupid FFXI limitations?

I'd say it depends on what kind of limitations you mean exactly.

They are no doubt working within the memory limitations of the PS3 (and lower-end personal computators), so you could imagine something like, I don't know, animations for characters (player/chocobo\et al), or options for additional sound effects for certain things being impossible to add (for the time being at least).

So yes, there are quite a lot of limitations.

Will you notice them any time soon?

Probably not, unless you know where to look for, and/or until time catches on. ^^

Naraku_Diabolos
07-04-2013, 09:28 AM
Runespider, I hate to disagree with you on everything. In fact, I feel completely the opposite. FFXI has come and gone and the best of what was promised ages ago with fixes on jobs and summons has not come...yet. I do not find a reason to come back to FFXI anymore. There is NOTHING to do on there. Not even my LS is active anymore, and everyone has gone to FFXIV: ARR now. Plus I cannot find the motivation to get things done. Everything is slow. And boring. Slow, and even more boring. Even though the exp gain has increased in FFXI, I still find that battles take a bit too long :( FFXIV: ARR hits the right spot. Square-Enix made FFXIV: ARR to be the spiritual successor to FFXI, whether you like it or not. I'm leaving my FFXI to rot for good now on the game (I would never delete him due to the memories, I'll just let his corpse fester). His "new skin" is now on ARR and he's found a much better place to thrive.

If anything, YOU are the one who is delusional about ARR being a waste. It's not. It's the FIX of what FFXI should be if it ever did get upgraded. If FFXIV: ARR flops, FFXI goes down the shitter, too. If FFXIV: ARR succeeds, FFXI will dwindle away. Either way, it's a double-edge sword. FFXI is so archaic that I cannot stand it any longer. I mean, look at the areas. There are NO ambient shadows/lighting in the areas; trees and buildings give off no shadows, and the only shadows given off are from players, NPCs, and monsters. The game looks like an upscaled N64 game to me. It's just pathetic. The only good thing FFXI has is its content, storyline, and such. It's a unique snowflake, but one that is rooted in the past of MMOs. Take it as you will, but if "you" continue to live in the past along with FFXI, you will be sadly left behind on a dying game.

Finuve
07-04-2013, 10:52 AM
that settles it guys, FFXIV is better than FFXI because it has shadows

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo
07-04-2013, 11:24 AM
High-definition shadows of chocobo butt.

Miiyo
07-05-2013, 02:38 AM
There's mainly only 2 types. Wouldn't you choose the one that would cause you to be... successful. There's very little you can do to revolutionalize the mmorpg world. You have a character and it can grow and explore. SE has just taken the best from everything and put their own spin to it and made a very solid game. No matter how you feel about FFXIV, i can easily say that it's far better than FFXI. Especially if you have nothing left to explore but adoulin.

Deifact
07-05-2013, 11:43 PM
The thing about FFXIV:ARR is that it makes me feel like when I first played FFXI. The storyline is compelling and interesting, the characters are well fleshed out and unique, it's a much more engaging experience much like how i found FFXI was when it was first released.
I actually enjoy talking to random NPC's because they have character that shines through in their dialogue. I actually enjoy exploring the world because it is beautiful and mysterious. I actually enjoy the battle system because no matter what class I play as I am useful to those around me. I enjoy these things so much that when I am not playing, I just can't wait to log on again and play some more.

These are things that I enjoyed doing in FFXI before it became a disjointed mish mash of content that quickly became quantity over quality. I think it was a few years ago that I actually played FFXI and had real fun, opposed to a flicker of satisfaction echoing from a flame that died out years ago. Like I've said before, FFXI needs to die sooner rather than later so that it can retain some dignity, opposed to being strung out on the bare minimum life support until all that is left is a old withered carcass that no one recognises anymore.

BST
07-07-2013, 09:47 PM
This will be my last post here, my subscription ends shortly!

As beta test (FFXIV) ended couple of hours ago, I can say its really nice to be able to have a party automatically made for you via the Duty Finder, hell you can start off making your own party with friends and then use the DF to automatically get any other class needed! Had a blast playing with random people cross-server, I don't think I could ever go back to playing without this feature!

Naraku_Diabolos
07-08-2013, 12:40 AM
This will be my last post here, my subscription ends shortly!

As beta test (FFXIV) ended couple of hours ago, I can say its really nice to be able to have a party automatically made for you via the Duty Finder, hell you can start off making your own party with friends and then use the DF to automatically get any other class needed! Had a blast playing with random people cross-server, I don't think I could ever go back to playing without this feature!

Agreed! The Duty Finder is a godsend and a blessing to the game. I was able to get a party under 2 minutes this past weekend with Ifrit.

Miiyo
08-08-2013, 09:20 AM
The thing about FFXIV:ARR is that it makes me feel like when I first played FFXI. The storyline is compelling and interesting, the characters are well fleshed out and unique, it's a much more engaging experience much like how i found FFXI was when it was first released.
I actually enjoy talking to random NPC's because they have character that shines through in their dialogue. I actually enjoy exploring the world because it is beautiful and mysterious. I actually enjoy the battle system because no matter what class I play as I am useful to those around me. I enjoy these things so much that when I am not playing, I just can't wait to log on again and play some more.

These are things that I enjoyed doing in FFXI before it became a disjointed mish mash of content that quickly became quantity over quality. I think it was a few years ago that I actually played FFXI and had real fun, opposed to a flicker of satisfaction echoing from a flame that died out years ago. Like I've said before, FFXI needs to die sooner rather than later so that it can retain some dignity, opposed to being strung out on the bare minimum life support until all that is left is a old withered carcass that no one recognises anymore.

Basically, Eorzea is fresh and new. This is what FFXI is lacking. People say an upgrade to graphics will bring back people and revitalize the game. My interest hasn't died down because of looks however. It's because 95% of this world is a been there, done that experience. We get new lands every now and then and new mobs, but it doesn't erase the grinding on this old, slow system we've been using over the past years. What this game needs to do in order to get people involved in it again is to add a new expansion that is the size of the current game with quests and missions, then update the ui, battle system, and graphics. Basically a new game. Hmm... so... would that not be what FFXIV is??? O.o

Hayward
08-09-2013, 12:31 AM
Basically, Eorzea is fresh and new. This is what FFXI is lacking. People say an upgrade to graphics will bring back people and revitalize the game. My interest hasn't died down because of looks however. It's because 95% of this world is a been there, done that experience. We get new lands every now and then and new mobs, but it doesn't erase the grinding on this old, slow system we've been using over the past years. What this game needs to do in order to get people involved in it again is to add a new expansion that is the size of the current game with quests and missions, then update the ui, battle system, and graphics. Basically a new game. Hmm... so... would that not be what FFXIV is??? O.o

This is pretty much what most of us have been saying. A UI upgrade, while it would be welcome, misses the point entirely. It seems that even the developers are simply out of ideas for FFXI and unwilling to change their core philosophy to keep up with more current MMOs.

Duelle
08-09-2013, 09:20 AM
This is pretty much what most of us have been saying. A UI upgrade, while it would be welcome, misses the point entirely. It seems that even the developers are simply out of ideas for FFXI and unwilling to change their core philosophy to keep up with more current MMOs.As I've mentioned before, there's also a ton of things that need to be revamped/overhauled/fixed in this game. Better to build from the ground up, it seems. Well, unless your name is World of Warcraft. Then you can afford to revamp/rebuild/delete/replace/redesign/overhaul stuff without batting an eye.

Merton9999
08-10-2013, 10:48 AM
As I've mentioned before, there's also a ton of things that need to be revamped/overhauled/fixed in this game. Better to build from the ground up, it seems. Well, unless your name is World of Warcraft. Then you can afford to revamp/rebuild/delete/replace/redesign/overhaul stuff without batting an eye.

Yeah this. It would take a UI revamp, a graphics overhaul, and brand new zones for me to be interested in XI again. ARR is offering all of this. But...

The most important thing for me is character growth in more than just numbers. I have 17 classes/jobs + gathering/crafting classes for this in ARR. I took multiple breaks from XI and only came back when my jobs had something new to do. Merit Group II, addition of Afflatus/Composure, level cap increase, Embrava/Kaustra.

For me, it's really that character growth that I'm missing. Weapons and armor with bigger numbers doesn't do anything at all for me. If they got on the new merits and new SPs, I might even overlook the XI graphics and UI when I want a break from ARR.

Crusader81
08-11-2013, 03:00 PM
The more and more I see of the game the more I want to play it! Summoner looks great!

Here's the full Tour of the endgame World, also showing off Summoner & Scholar!
http://youtu.be/v0w5dyfENwA


and If you're curious what dungeon options ARR has, this video shows you up to level 30 dungeons (about half of the ones that'll be open at launch):
http://youtu.be/Kbr_h_d5g2Q