Item Levels

[Mokeil]

This issue with dual-wielders not wielding the same thing in both hands has been around for as long as Dual-wield has been around.

Yes, but the gap between what you can have in both hands has never been quite so large before. There's a hefty difference in the damage ratings on the T4/T5 Delve weapons, and the ones that can be obtained from the Mega Bosses. Factor it the fact that the off-hand weapon already isn't getting as much Attack from Str that the main hand is...

Widening that gap is only going to make matters worse.

[Windwhisper]

Please dont forget Magian weapons. People who spent many weeks on MAB staves feel cheated by the new buyable MAB staves for instance

[Santi]

Incoming single-wield Ninja...

[FrankReynolds]

Incoming single-wield Ninja...

Lol what ninja? I thought they blocked people from setting ninja as their main job in all Adoulin zones.

[Futan]

I'm confused... this sounds like they're nerfing the jobs that need a buff the most...

Dual wielding jobs(NIN, THF, DNC, etc.) aren't even considered damage dealers at this point. Why are you in the process of making their off hand even more horrible? lol. Meanwhile, that Scythe or Great Axe added with this update, has no downside to DRK and WAR. Basically making two of the best damage dealers even stronger, widening the already Grand Canyon of a gap between these jobs.

We want you to balance jobs. You're doing the opposite. Stahp.

[Alpheus]

Technically the Scythe would rule out resolution...... so yay downside discovered!

[Demon6324236]

That makes the GA no less amazing. A WAR with basically +188 Attack & +169 Acc, on top of that STR & VIT, yay for mods we can make use of! All in all, super powerful and amazing GA unless I am missing something, which is fine, but 1 handed jobs get screwed by this still.

[darkhorror]

This makes DW jobs lower level than 2hand. DW will be able to use main hand with full skill, and off hand with less skill. So DW jobs level will be half way between the two items they equip. If they equip a lvl 120 weapon and lvl 114 weapon they will be lvl 117. So ether add two weapons for DW of the same level when ever you release a new weapon, OR

Just make it so the main hand combat skill+ effects both weapons and offhand combat skill+ does nothing.


The other thing this does is make all lower level weapons completely useless, if you have this mainhand skill effect offhand also you would be able to still use lower level weapons so they aren't useless at least for DW jobs.

[Daniel]

Thank god they wanted to make sure duel wielding didn't have any advantages. My ninja was starting to replace darks in events and stuff. Oh wait... I can't even get groups with my 99 relic emp ext nin. I wonder why that is, maybe its because I am not turning out 5k WSs on Tojil... But good on them to make sure that any possible chance 1h jobs have at succeeding was squandered before they got a chance to be a real DD.

[Demon6324236]

add two weapons for DW of the same level when ever you release a new weaponBest solution, reminds me of...
http://www.bg-wiki.com/images/9/9b/Anju_description.png
http://www.bg-wiki.com/images/5/5b/Zushio_description.png

2 AF weapons for NIN rather than 1 so that it would be fair and balanced to the job, since it originally had Dual Wield. To do that with new weapons, great idea!

[FrankReynolds]

And just to be clear here, they are basically saying that only the best players (who don't play nin, thf, blu, red, dnc or bst) who have a linkshell with a bunch of other really well geared friends can ever reach the level cap now.

They should have done this back at 75. They would all be working somewhere else on some modern game by now.

[Byrth]

Come august, I bet it is the opposite. Having massive acc boosts on your weapons will really make current content easier, which will make it easier to progress through the Fracture NMs and "level up." The skill weapons are enough of an Acc boost for Delve bosses and also provide a large attack boost. This means you can drop several songs (no daurd required) and maybe a roll too while still maintaining current kill speeds. I bet delve bosses are beatable in august with 4 songs and no COR rotation.

[FrankReynolds]

Come august, I bet it is the opposite. Having massive acc boosts on your weapons will really make current content easier, which will make it easier to progress through the Fracture NMs and "level up." The skill weapons are enough of an Acc boost for Delve bosses and also provide a large attack boost. This means you can drop several songs (no daurd required) and maybe a roll too while still maintaining current kill speeds. I bet delve bosses are beatable in august with 4 songs and no COR rotation.

Of course by then there will be some new awfulness to replace boss drops and the same groups will still be 20 levels higher than everyone else.

EDIT:And within two weeks, your delve weapons won't be good enough to get you into a group anymore either.

Rapid gear progression is great. I'm so glad they couldn't find a way to progress our characters through some sort of merit system...

[Rwolf]

Still in agreement this item level crap is poorly implemented. I own Ixtab (Great Axe) and Xbalanque (Scythe) now and I can notice the difference. Even with every weapon above Lv.100 getting it's own Combat Skill+, 2 handers once again completely overshadow 1 handers.

Problems I have with the item level system.
TL;DR: Item level sucks and combat skill+ sucks. I'd rather see a mix of new weapons and armor with old/new merit group expansions through battlefield wins to expand levels.

Poor implementation
Instead of waiting to implement it all at once with weapons across the board. We have to wait for these weapons to be implemented in the future. Effectively making some jobs "higher level" than others until everyone gets Level 118 weapons. Dual wielders will then have to find two of them that somehow equates to +188 skill each to even be back on the normal gap between 2 hand and 1 hand. Effectively solving nothing with 1 handed users for twice or more as much effort as gaining one 2 handed weapon.

Solution: Make it work like normal skill and apply to both weapons, only it adds the highest item level weapon of the two regardless of which hand. If I'm going to be "Level 118" regardless of what hand it's in, I should reap the benefits of being "Level 118" regardless. I also shouldn't be penalized for equipping a lower level weapon in my main hand because as others have stated. If I'm level 99 for instance using a level 66 dagger in my main hand. I still have the accuracy/attack of level 99 skill, just lower base damage. That should remain the same and makes the most sense. Why? Because some weapons have an additional effect I might want, who knows. Does it really break anything using a Oynos Knife in my main and a Macoquetza in my off? No, because you're already being penalized on your weapon skills which is penalty enough.

Weapons/Armor are quickly outdated
I don't like this whole push to constantly get new gear, especially in the current situation of inventory problems. Just having all jobs myself. I'm forced to drop something if I want all the job specific capes or mule them (if that's even possible, haven't tried). Not counting all the gear they are adding next update and with the fractures of the new naakauls opening. I'm all for better gear but they are pushing too much upgrades too fast.

I understand they are thinking in this process of get reive or AH weapons so you can get skirmish weapons, so you can get old wildskeeper weapons, so you can do delve nms, to do delve constantly until you get a delve weapon from current T4-5, then immediately go to the newer wildskeeper, so you can eventually do delve all over again. This is always the nature of MMO's but not in a matter of 4 months...

Solution: Slow down. Let people savor their accomplishments and showcase their results. Constantly adding new things that beat the last thing just makes everyone jump steps on your design ladder because it's silly and hard to get help for over time. Work on stuff that's been promised a long time ago. (Dark magic Fast Cast, Cait Sith & Atomos, Boost adjustments, etc.)

This removable level system is lame and in my personal opinion I'd rather see item levels abolished. At least with meriting I felt a sense of accomplishment because it's permanent upgrades to my character and I get a good sense of effort/reward. This new system is all about temporary reward where your accomplishments are negated in the next update. And if people feel like exp at this point is too mindnumbling easy. Then make it so each of these bosses drops a cap on new merits and raises caps on old merits so you have players who also have battle experience.

[darkhorror]

The other thing is that if you have two weapons with two different acc values, you will want to cap both. So you will need more acc to cap the offhand hit rate. Thus needing more acc gear instead of attack, and other damage type gear just for the offhand thus gimping the main hand since you don't need that extra acc for it. Where as 2hander will not have this problem.

What is going to be bad is when the +skill on the H2H weapon only effects main hand, and it wouldn't surprise me at all lol.

[Glamdring]

Matsui, could you PLEASE change the gear priorities so the r/m/e update takes place in August? Honestly, seeing all the whining on here is giving me migraines. As long as my rune AF comes out as advertised (the second time) I'll be happy.

[FrankReynolds]

The other thing is that if you have two weapons with two different acc values, you will want to cap both. So you will need more acc to cap the offhand hit rate. Thus needing more acc gear instead of attack, and other damage type gear just for the offhand thus gimping the main hand since you don't need that extra acc for it. Where as 2hander will not have this problem.

What is going to be bad is when the +skill on the H2H weapon only effects main hand, and it wouldn't surprise me at all lol.

I know right? How stupid would that be?

[Marianka]

Soooo. It seems you are really serious about killing this game with stuff from other rpgs people dont even want there. This may come as a shock to SE developers, but maybe you should give ppl actually stuff they want?

If it weren't for the other people on this game I would have given up ages ago because apparently SE does not understand the concept of customer

[Spiegel]

Matsui, could you PLEASE change the gear priorities so the r/m/e update takes place in August? Honestly, seeing all the whining on here is giving me migraines. As long as my rune AF comes out as advertised (the second time) I'll be happy.

Lol keep dreaming that is not going to happen before they release all delve mega bosses weapons. Hopefully in December update... If not maybe early 2014.

[FrankReynolds]

Lol keep dreaming that is not going to happen before they release all delve mega bosses weapons. Hopefully in December update... If not maybe early 2014.

I fully expect them to do one of two things:

A) Buff RME to the point that they render all the Adoulin weapons that people built obsolete

B) Buff them so little that everyone just dies of disappointment


The odds that they will somehow achieve any semblance of balance with the new gear they are currently adding are astronomically bad.

[Alpheus]

I fully expect them to do one of two things:

A) Buff RME to the point that they render all the Adoulin weapons that people built obsolete

B) Buff them so little that everyone just dies of disappointment


The odds that they will somehow achieve any semblance of balance with the new gear they are currently adding are astronomically bad.

I personally think they'd go with option A because if they went with option B the people who would still be around would clamor that the requirements for now less than prestige weapons be adjusted downward. And that would add even more work for them, not calling them lazy but rather they'd be back where they are now implementing a certain vision while also being very aware of the vocal playerbase wanting something else implemented. I don't believe the Devs wanna be in that situation if they can avoid it.

[Babekeke]

As I understand it, you could actually Dual-Wield 2 of these weapons (say a BLU could wield sword and club) and end up with +376 skill for the main hand, but nothing for the off-hand. Great, capped acc and att on main hand but off-hand still can't hit shit.

Any nice new shields out there? ;p

Also 188 skill over 20 levels equates to 9.4 skill per level, which is much higher than we ever got during levelling! My guess is that they did it so that they can make H2H work on half the skill is applied to each hand without screwing them over.

As it is now, the only way to cap haste on a single-hand job will be to single-wield and sub DRK for Last resort. No point what-so-ever in dual-wielding if you won't be able to hit with your off-hand, or you have to gimp your gear by equipping more acc even when main hand is capped, just so your off-hand can hit.

[Alpheus]

Last Resort is 2handed weapons only =/ they confirmed that much when the change was being discussed/when the change went live.

[SpankWustler]

As I understand it, you could actually Dual-Wield 2 of these weapons (say a BLU could wield sword and club) and end up with +376 skill for the main hand, but nothing for the off-hand. Great, capped acc and att on main hand but off-hand still can't hit shit.

As far as I can cobble together from multiple (poor) explanations, +skill on a weapon will only affect that weapon rather than everything going towards the main hand.

Example: Wielding two swords with + Sword Skill on Blue Mage would function similar to wielding a sword with + Sword skill and a club with + Club skill, since the skill bonus on neither sword will affect the other.

If that's the correct interpretation, things will still be rough for one-handed jobs but not nearly as bad as if everything only affected the main hand. Sadly, however, +skill going this route would also crush the hopes and dreams of many an overachieving onanist; the dream of using two weapons in the creation of an ultimate fapping arm.

Keeping with the usual "these jobs that kind of suck at hurting difficult monsters are stronger defensively" theme, there's an outside chance that one-handed jobs can at least combine + Parrying skill from two weapons. They might even be able to get above that 5% parrying floor on something higher than Even Match!

[Godofgods]

First - they wont update REM despite how much players keep complaining. They want you to play new content, with new content equip. If they buff REM now, then ppl might stick with them. So you can expect the buff to be after the main craze over new content has died down more.

Second - Most ppl, including myself, were quite shocked when they first saw these 'Skill +188' weapons. But when you think about, it actually is logical.

New mobs being added are going to be much higher levels. From 100-140+ (or something like that). If you remember your acc/eva/hit rate formulas, there is a penalty on acc for each level under the target you are. (Hopefully i remember that right) So if your 99 with 99 cap skill, and facing a mob that is lvl 140, your hit rate would suffer dramatically. More then basic acc+ would work well with. The skill + would help negate that programming effect. And accomplish that without a full acc equip set. So it does make a bit of sense.

[Karbuncle]

First - they wont update REM despite how much players keep complaining

They've already confirmed they are buffing them, Its just a matter of when... You know that right?

[Louispv]

They've already confirmed they are buffing them, Its just a matter of when... You know that right?
Because we've gotten everything they're confirmed, right? Pet TH gear? Dark magic fast cast? Cait Sith? The colosseum? Third Meebles region? New 1 hour abilities? Until it's added, it's imaginary, because there's no more than a 50/50 shot at it ever happening.

Plus, the updated sample stats they gave for relic/mythic/empyrian are still pretty terrible. Like worse than crafted stuff, delve stuff, and wildskeeper stuff 2.0. So why even make one?

[Karbuncle]

Now you're simply being difficult.

Caith Sith/Atomos are on their way, Pet TH gear was confirmed to be "Not in the works, only used as a possible example" by a SE Rep, and 1 hours are also confirmed to be added within the next couple version updates... as far as Dark Magic an Meebles, no clue...

But RME and half the things you listed were and are confirmed for near future. Just because they aren't implemented right now doesn't mean


they wont

[Rekin]

First - they wont update REM despite how much players keep complaining. They want you to play new content, with new content equip. If they buff REM now, then ppl might stick with them. So you can expect the buff to be after the main craze over new content has died down more.

Second - Most ppl, including myself, were quite shocked when they first saw these 'Skill +188' weapons. But when you think about, it actually is logical.

New mobs being added are going to be much higher levels. From 100-140+ (or something like that). If you remember your acc/eva/hit rate formulas, there is a penalty on acc for each level under the target you are. (Hopefully i remember that right) So if your 99 with 99 cap skill, and facing a mob that is lvl 140, your hit rate would suffer dramatically. More then basic acc+ would work well with. The skill + would help negate that programming effect. And accomplish that without a full acc equip set. So it does make a bit of sense.

There is no level adjustment in Adoulin as mentioned back after vanafest. This is to make up "levels" to match the mobs whose stats are equal to a mob whose levels are 140+.

[Mostfowl]

Now you're simply being difficult.

Caith Sith/Atomos are on their way, Pet TH gear was confirmed to be "Not in the works, only used as a possible example" by a SE Rep, and 1 hours are also confirmed to be added within the next couple version updates... as far as Dark Magic an Meebles, no clue...

But RME and half the things you listed were and are confirmed for near future. Just because they aren't implemented right now doesn't mean

Oh to have such faith...

[Karbuncle]

Not saying it might not take them years to implement any of the promised updates, But seriously, They eventually will on the vast majority of things they actually confirm are in the works and near completion... They make a lot of forgotten/unimplemented "Speculative/*Heres what we're thinking/might do*" Updates, people just get excited when they see stuff thats in the "Thought process" Stage and don't realize a lot of that sh*t is thrown out the window, like the entire THF or RDM Job directions.

Yes they flat out just don't do things, but like Alexander and Odin, it can take a couple years but I bet we'll eventually see most of the crap they actually promise and not just "Heres our spitballed ideas for fixing X"... That is if the game doesn't keelhaul first.

[Oddwaffle]

I don't know. I will have to see it actually get implemented to believe it (actually I think what I believe will be completely irrelevant by then). SE/Rep is turning into some sort of politician. Making all sorts of promises and keep delaying them.

"We got people on this"
"We will be working with this idea carefully"
"Your concern is noted and will be handled with careful deliberations"
"We are hoping to do this in the future"
"We are out of money for servers, can you pay some more so we can use the money to fund something else?" (like gov funding its army while people need support)

[Godofgods]

They've already confirmed they are buffing them, Its just a matter of when... You know that right?

Yes, i do. I meant they wont be doing it right now. Sry for not spelling it out'

[Godofgods]

There is no level adjustment in Adoulin as mentioned back after vanafest. This is to make up "levels" to match the mobs whose stats are equal to a mob whose levels are 140+.

didnt know that'

[Karbuncle]

Yes, i do. I meant they wont be doing it right now. Sry for not spelling it out'

You did spell it out, Thanks though


First - they wont update REM despite how much players keep complaining. They want you to play new content, with new content equip. If they buff REM now, then ppl might stick with them. So you can expect the buff to be after the main craze over new content has died down more.

Though in their defense, the main craze has kinda died down for pretty much all the good players who can beat Delve content, the rest are too busy complaining how hard it is. >_>

[Mostfowl]

it can take a couple years but I bet we'll eventually see most of the crap they actually promise.

Problem is at this rate, other than the true white nights and rosy eyed wonders, who is going to be around to see it?

If its just an idea, they need to keep quiet, otherwise they are getting ppls hopes up and letting a lot or ppl down.

[Chimerawizard]

This makes DW jobs lower level than 2hand. DW will be able to use main hand with full skill, and off hand with less skill. So DW jobs level will be half way between the two items they equip. If they equip a lvl 120 weapon and lvl 114 weapon they will be lvl 117. So ether add two weapons for DW of the same level when ever you release a new weapon, OR

Just make it so the main hand combat skill+ effects both weapons and offhand combat skill+ does nothing.


The other thing this does is make all lower level weapons completely useless, if you have this mainhand skill effect offhand also you would be able to still use lower level weapons so they aren't useless at least for DW jobs.
Best damn idea yet I think, at least when they adjust all the other lv.100+ weapons.

[FrankReynolds]

Best damn idea yet I think, at least when they adjust all the other lv.100+ weapons.

Well best idea would probably be to use the highest value of the two. So that if you have one that gives parry skill +188 in the main hand and one that give eva +42 and parry +42 in the off hand, you end up with Parry 188 and eva 42. That way one handers aren't overpowered (lol right?) but they still get some love from the off hand.

[Chimerawizard]

Well best idea would probably be to use the highest value of the two. So that if you have one that gives parry skill +188 in the main hand and one that give eva +42 and parry +42 in the off hand, you end up with Parry 188 and eva 42. Yes, coding it so it would compare like terms & use the greater of the two would be best.

[Spectreman]

Salvage is nice and all but HOW ABOUT ALLOWING US TO DO ASSAULT MISSIONS SOLO??

Damn it SE can't you figure that this game is fricking hard to get anything dones without having to pester veterans with things they don't care about anymore?

There are not enough newbies to do specific things in this game so why i STILL NEED 3 PPL FOR STUPID ASSAULT MISSIONS?


You have power/lag problems to keep solo instances? guess what? buy more hardware because we are supporting this game with money and not wishes. We are doing our part by giving you the money. Now spend this money on the product we are paying for or lose the customers.


Start acting like a real gaming company for Christ's sake!!!

[FrankReynolds]

Salvage is nice and all but HOW ABOUT ALLOWING US TO DO ASSAULT MISSIONS SOLO??

Damn it SE can't you figure that this game is fricking hard to get anything dones without having to pester veterans with things they don't care about anymore?

There are not enough newbies to do specific things in this game so why i STILL NEED 3 PPL FOR STUPID ASSAULT MISSIONS?


You have power/lag problems to keep solo instances? guess what? buy more hardware because we are supporting this game with money and not wishes. We are doing our part by giving you the money. Now spend this money on the product we are paying for or lose the customers.


Start acting like a real gaming company for Christ's sake!!!

Amen to that. At this rate, I fully expect all the new monsters going forward to be Wire frames because "texturing is expensive guys!".

[predatory]

You did spell it out, Thanks though



Though in their defense, the main craze has kinda died down for pretty much all the good players who can beat Delve content, the rest are too busy complaining how hard it is. >_>

Actually the people in my ls, and quite a few others are doing things like building ochains, and dharps, and leveling jobs we thought we'd never level because no one wants the jobs we have, and our working our asses off the be able to get into a fracture, but there are some in the game who complain content is too hard, there always has been, but thanks for being so general about people who havent beat fractures yet

[airsparrowhawk]

Actually the people in my ls, and quite a few others are doing things like building ochains, and dharps, and leveling jobs we thought we'd never level because no one wants the jobs we have, and our working our asses off the be able to get into a fracture, but there are some in the game who complain content is too hard, there always has been, but thanks for being so general about people who havent beat fractures yet

For a lot of people it's a Catch 22 situation, for instance, as a Samurai I will be allowed into a party to take on Dakuwaqa and get Tsurumaru unless I already have Tsurumaru, which is my only reason for taking on Dakuwaqa.

The solution? Level a support job to 99, gear it somewhat, hit up Delve and get your career-job gear that way.

But being a career Samurai, as in, the only job I really enjoy playing, I feel I should never have to main anything else in currently the most challenging endgame events. What's the point of playing a game if you don't enjoy it?

[Byrth]

It is an MMO with 22 jobs. If you never have to work with other people and sometimes meet their demands, it is not an MMO. If you never have to change jobs, why does every player get access to 22 jobs?

Working as intended.

[Demon6324236]

The solution? Level a support job to 99, gear it somewhat, hit up Delve and get your career-job gear that way.

But being a career Samurai, as in, the only job I really enjoy playing, I feel I should never have to main anything else in currently the most challenging endgame events. What's the point of playing a game if you don't enjoy it?I have played RDM since I began playing FFXI, through that time I have had to level WAR, WHM, MNK, BLM, DRK, SCH, BRD, and NIN. All of these jobs were originally never jobs I wanted to play, at all, but I had to because RDM went though horrible times when Abyssea came out, which stuck me as WAR, NIN, MNK, BLM, and WHM, all so I could proc or heal seal parties and +2 parties. After Abyssea was no longer the best, I went to VW, where I had to level DRK, because I had no Ukon, I made an OAT GS, and I had to level BRD as a support. After that went away I quickly learned that SCH was the only way I would ever get to touch NNI, or any other EG event before SoA, because I had no want to make an Empyrean or Relic for another job.

The point of all of this? I had to level around 10 other jobs just to play my RDM because RDM was not cutting it for people. SAM is good, you can play your job at the end at least, once you have your Tsurumaru if your a good SAM, people might actually take you to events, your situation has a bit more hope than mine. In all honesty, leveling and playing the other jobs isn't so bad, and even if it is, its easy, fast, and the sooner you get it done, the sooner its over with and you can play your SAM to your heart's content. If nothing else, you can try getting the GK from the WK, the level 115 one, its not nearly as good, but its not terrible either, you might be able to persuade some invites with it.

[Okipuit]

Greetings,

Below is a comment from Producer Akihiko Matsui in regards to requests for the auction house to support an item level sort feature.



Matsui here.

Thank you for the feedback.

With the item level system implemented, we feel it’s important to make browsing the auction house even easier by addressing this with an item level sort feature, and we will be looking into this.

We will need to change the auction house specifications so that it references item levels instead of regular equipment levels, and we also need to give consideration for other related aspects this change will affect, so please give us a bit of time to implement this.