Any chance we can get some low-man plasm earning options?

[Mokeil]

Like it says on the tin: Is there any chance we can get some low-man plasm earning options in the near future?

Like many folks, my friends and I don't belong to a large LS anymore. Now that the end-game has begun to focus on Delve, we're finding it rather difficult to do relevant things as a group without also having to involve a dozen random strangers. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm totally OK with the strength of the NMs, and the design of the fractures, etc... I'm not saying these need to be made easy mode or anything like that.

But it's nearly impossible for any small group to earn plasm. Eighteen people or bust. And it takes a lot of time and a lot of hassle to get that going sometimes. There's no just grabbing up your buds and heading out and getting something done when it comes to Delve. (OK, there is the Matamata NM... if you have a seriously pimped out MNK, and there's not already a group of people there who plan to spend the next two hours killing it over and over just like you wanted to...)

Naturally, of course, six people shouldn't be able to earn the kind of plasm that eighteen can, but there should be something that the six people can do. Heck, it can even be tied into Skirmish somehow, and suddenly there will be a reason to do that event again.

[Mirage]

I agree. Let Skirmish throw plasma at you at 50-75% the plasma-per-minute as a delve does, and I am sure a decent amount of people preferring smaller groups would do it.

At the same time, let skirmish entry items drop from delve, and we have a symbiotic relationship going on!

Delve players let skirmishers enter skirmish more easily. Skirmishers gain the weapons needed to later join delve, and the circle of life continues.

[CrAZYVIC]

I hope they add a low Man ver of Fracture without Bosses.


3 - 6 man ver. Each Mob give 30 Plasma, 20 mins.
3 - 9 Man ver. Each mob give 40 Plasma, 30 mins.


Probably we will be playing Fracture plasma farm the rest the year and without a low man ver, a lot of people will be unable progress on their characters.

Another posible quick fix i find. Is boost the plasma the follow items give


Yggrete Shard I/II/III: 100 corpuscles - 500
Yggrete Shard IV/V: 150 corpuscles - 850
Yggzi Bead I/II/III: 1,000 corpuscles - 2000
Yggzi Bead IV/V: 1,500 corpuscles - 3000


People can Farm x10 - Yggrete shards per day in 90 - 120 mins and make 5k per day alone. In 1 week are 35k enough for keep progressing everyday. The people can use this method too for buy airlixirs 5980 RP is a lot.

[Aarahs]

You can kill certain delve NMs with a party of 6, some without delve weapons. Rinse and repeat for profit.

[OmnysValefor]

I'd love to see low-man plasm.

Such a scenario would certainly bring the ninjas and tanky blu mages back out again as well. Both can tank and contribute to damage better than a paladin. Some groups might choose no tank and simply heal sams and wars through the damage, others will take a hit to damage so it's easier on mp.

I feel like they could do something something the Naakual areas of the map. Let anyone enter at any time for killing fodder for plasm. Require the KI for the loot from the boss. That trash is certainly lowmannable. It's safely trioable really.

[Mokeil]

You can kill certain delve NMs with a party of 6, some without delve weapons. Rinse and repeat for profit.

I've already mentioned the T1 in Morimar, and the two problems someone is likely to run into while attempting to use it to earn plasm. For my part, that's the only NM I know of that can be low-manned - at all. One NM on a limited access resource (only one spawn point) does not make a viable option for every low-man group on the server.

Now, since you mentioned NMs (plural)... If you would oblige me, I'd love to know which other NMs can be done low-man (and how you're supposed to be able to kill them in less than 20 minutes).

[Cokie]

You are 100% right on,,,this has to be addressed asap...people are talking about quitting the game...tired of being be-littled as a run of the mill player.The higher teir players are monopolizing the better players and creating few opportunities for decent players to advance,These people if shut out for awhile do not feel like going back to the old stuff,they'd rather quit.Thank You for your post,you're not alone.

[Taint2]

You can 6 man a lot of the tier 1-3 outside NMs for 500 per kill. MNK+Mage can duo Matamata every time 100fists is up. MNK,BRD,mage can trio Mata every 10minutes.

You can also 6 man fracture, pull around the NMs or have a designated sacker if a NM aggros.

[hiko]

you can enter a fracture without a full ally and only need a twilight set zombie to hold the NMs = you can low man plasm

obviously you'll get lower plasm/h than in a full group, but higher than if you sit in town.

you can also just farm shards


You can 6 man a lot of the tier 1-3 outside NMs for 500 per kill. MNK+Mage can duo Matamata every time 100fists is up. MNK,BRD,mage can trio Mata every 10minutes.



good player with good gear setS can, not people who are left out of pug farm.

[Zagen]

Low-man options already exist:


Farm Shards 100-150 plasm per shard. Can be done solo
Farm Volatile Matamata with 2-3 players (a pimped MNK and WHM can duo 2x MNK + WHM is safer). 500 plasm per kill can do 2-3 per hour easily. 5-6 per hour if you bring a few more or have pimped job combination options (i.e. decked out MNK + emp/relic BRD + WHM). Other setups work but the ones I mentioned are the easiest setups.
Farm Morimar Basalt Fields with 6+, suggested setup: WHM, 2x MNK, BRD, COR, PLD or DD. The PLD should be able to hold the raptor and eft should they need to, depending on NM placements. 1 MNK can hold the Volatile Matamata while waiting for FS+HF. You should be able to do 2-3k+ plasm per run. Can replace the BRD or COR for another healer if the PLD doesn't feel comfortable holding those 2 NMs alone but the 2-3k+ range should still be doable.
Ceizak Battlegrounds with the above setup works as well though I'm not sure what kind of numbers to expect as I haven't tried to small man it.


As you can see there's a few options already available to 1-6+ man parties.

[Zumi]

Mata can duo or duo box doesn't take anything special
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIuWvLVZRVc

or you can make a party of 6 people farm fractures.

[OmnysValefor]

Only problem with Mata is competition for ???.

[Karah]

We should RRRREEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYY stop advertising the Matamata before it gets changed, like SERIOUSLY.

Stop, no, really, stop it.

[Mokeil]

Only problem with Mata is competition for ???.

Exactly! The thing about Matamata That One NM (excellent point Karah! :p) is that more or less everyone knows about him. With only one spawn point for him, competition for access is tight, and more than a little fierce. That one ??? alone does not make sufficient options for an entire server.

Why not fight him in a fracture, then? Well, the problem there (and with low-man farming inside fractures in general) is the entirely random placement of the mobs inside, as well as the entirely random way the NMs will wander. Sometimes you'll get lucky, sometimes you'll step into the first hallway to see the wrong NM waiting to greet you, and sometimes further that one NM that was safely out of the way has decides it really wants to tour the zone about 10 minutes in. Now, we've discovered that good old Carby Pulling works just fine, and that's helped some... But those NMs have some pretty huge aggro ranges - sometimes aggroing long before you can get close enough to give an Assault command to the little minion mob right next to it. Getting aggro at the wrong time can lead to a lot of waiting around for mobs to clear out again.

In short, unless you have an Aegis/Ochain PLD or Twilight gear (which had an extremely limited window of availability), trying to low man farm a fracture is difficult, horribly inefficient, and dependent on no small amount of luck. Sadly outside of that one NM in the field it's the only feasible option, and it's not a very good one.

Farming shards for plasm isn't really reliable for any serious amounts, as you might end up with anything from 100 to 1,000 in an hour depending on drop rates. At best, it's a serendipitous occurrence while doing something else.

[Zumi]

We should RRRREEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYY stop advertising the Matamata before it gets changed, like SERIOUSLY.

Stop, no, really, stop it.

Mata is pretty bad anyway usually like 20-30 people at it. Not really worth it due to the long wait usually.

[hiko]

Mata is pretty bad anyway usually like 20-30 people at it. Not really worth it due to the long wait usually.

if you do it just for plasm you can team up with those people waiting.

you can also farm it inside, just need to add a zombi for other mobs/nm

[detlef]

You shouldn't have to do that though. Matsui said that you would be able to "just take 6 people to gather Mweya Plasm and enhancement materials." There should be a more straightforward way for a PT-sized group to farm plasm that doesn't require 45 minutes of holding/saccing.

Mata is theoretically nice but everybody knows about it.

[OmnysValefor]

He who shall not be named was likely an accident anyway.

Likely patched in some form soon but whatever.

Sac'ing is pretty terrible anyway. Yeah it takes Reraise III a long time to delevel you that far but it's still stupid someone's just repeatedly dying.

That, and holding mobs, is not fun by any means.

[Yinnyth]

Exactly! The thing about Matamata That One NM (excellent point Karah! :p) is that more or less everyone knows about him. With only one spawn point for him, competition for access is tight, and more than a little fierce. That one ??? alone does not make sufficient options for an entire server.

Why not fight him in a fracture, then? Well, the problem there (and with low-man farming inside fractures in general) is the entirely random placement of the mobs inside, as well as the entirely random way the NMs will wander. Sometimes you'll get lucky, sometimes you'll step into the first hallway to see the wrong NM waiting to greet you, and sometimes further that one NM that was safely out of the way has decides it really wants to tour the zone about 10 minutes in. Now, we've discovered that good old Carby Pulling works just fine, and that's helped some... But those NMs have some pretty huge aggro ranges - sometimes aggroing long before you can get close enough to give an Assault command to the little minion mob right next to it. Getting aggro at the wrong time can lead to a lot of waiting around for mobs to clear out again.

In short, unless you have an Aegis/Ochain PLD or Twilight gear (which had an extremely limited window of availability), trying to low man farm a fracture is difficult, horribly inefficient, and dependent on no small amount of luck. Sadly outside of that one NM in the field it's the only feasible option, and it's not a very good one.

Farming shards for plasm isn't really reliable for any serious amounts, as you might end up with anything from 100 to 1,000 in an hour depending on drop rates. At best, it's a serendipitous occurrence while doing something else.

You answer these things yourself. Six people shouldn't be able to do as well as 18. 6 people can, however kill matamata inside the fracture. They can also use the same NM-disabling tactics inside the fracture that any 18-person group uses. No Aegis or Ochain? No twilight? Then you face the same damned problems that an 18-man group would face without those things. That's not a matter of quantity, it's a matter of quality.


Naturally, of course, six people shouldn't be able to earn the kind of plasm that eighteen can, but there should be something that the six people can do.
There are several methods available. All of them have been listed and you dismiss them as not good enough. When you say that 6 people shouldn't be able to make plasm as quickly as 18, do you mean that you want methods that allow 6-man groups to make 99% as much plasm as 18-man groups? Do you mean that 6-man groups should be given an easy-mode delve which doesn't require endgame gear to farm?

[OmnysValefor]

I gotta disagree on the extremely limited window about Twilight gear. Find a static for it, and brew it.

Shinryuu is 2 mannable without brewing, especially if you can get a delve monk...

Of course, thf-brewing it is viable and your safest bet (noone can ninja from you).

Excluding luck, Twilight gear (% wise) was never easy to get, people just stuck to it. Heck, larger groups were more likely to have people that would leave and not come back after they got theirs.

[Mokeil]

There are several methods available. All of them have been listed and you dismiss them as not good enough. When you say that 6 people shouldn't be able to make plasm as quickly as 18, do you mean that you want methods that allow 6-man groups to make 99% as much plasm as 18-man groups? Do you mean that 6-man groups should be given an easy-mode delve which doesn't require endgame gear to farm?

There are three methods that have been mentioned so far - farming shards, farming the Matamata in the field, and farming a fracture (with an option for the Matamata there as well). I've only flatly dismissed one of those as non-viable - farming shards. I believe I've offered a solid reason why the second option - farming the Mata on the field - isn't viable (limited spawn).

This leaves only one method with any merit (not "several"): farming a fracture. But are you then trying to convince me that one method - that by all given suggestions requires an high-end PLD or someone willing to zombie in order to actually be viable - is something I should just quietly accept? That is not likely to happen.

Am I wanting "99% as much plasm as 18-man groups"? No, of course not. A decent 18 man pickup-up plasm farm can earn around 5,000 to 6,000 plasm. I don't think it's too much to ask that 6 people then be able to earn, say, around 2,000 across that same time frame. One-third the people, one-third the plasm. Zagen did mention that amount earned, but again, fracture farming with a PLD/Zombie is the one and only method I've seen suggested that has merit, and this thread is about trying to get more than one option.

(To forestall the inevitable: Farming the Mata in the field, yes, can earn around that much, with a bonus mix of airlixirs, to boot. But, again, that one NM in the field is not a viable option due to the limited access.)

Lastly, to address your comment about "easy mode": Asking a nearly unkillable PLD (or entirely killable zombie) to babysit all the big nasty NMs while everyone else slaughters mooks is about as easy mode as is gets. It is not at all challenging, merely tedious. Yet another reason to want more than one viable option to earn plasm on a reasonable scale.



I gotta disagree on the extremely limited window about Twilight gear.

Ah, you know? This was a total brain-fart on my part and I take back what I said about it being extremely limited. I had the twilight stuff confused with the gear from Fiat Lux. My apologies.

[Taint2]

2000 plasma is 40 mobs....surely you can kill 1 mob a minute with 6.

Here is your set up:

DDx3,BRD,COR,WHM

BRD pulls, if NM in the way they sack it. Stay in the entry room and pull from both sides. Unless all the NMs are contained in one room, then go opposite. I'd recommned Mori since you get plenty of mobs in the main room close to the start and also plenty pop to the south.

No reason you can't kill 40 mobs with 6 players and wouldn't even need anything special to do so.


Should Kill Mata inside fracture as well. 500 easy points that takes 8 minutes max. 2000 is seeming way to low for a pty of 6 in Mori.

[Yinnyth]

This whole thread is you asking for things you already have. There are sources of plasm for lowman groups. 6 man groups can make 2k plasm in a delve. Why you would want to do 15 delves to get 30k points is beyond me, however. Especially when there are groups that are so good they can make over 10k points, and don't even get me started on how many points a boss kill is worth.

[Taint2]

This whole thread is you asking for things you already have. There are sources of plasm for lowman groups. 6 man groups can make 2k plasm in a delve. Why you would want to do 15 delves to get 30k points is beyond me, however. Especially when there are groups that are so good they can make over 10k points, and don't even get me started on how many points a boss kill is worth.


I was about to say, the best groups get 70k a run!

[Mokeil]

This whole thread is you asking for things you already have. There are sources of plasm for lowman groups.

That's just it - there have only been three methods suggested, and it seems to me two of those methods aren't reliable. No one has refuted my arguments about that, so those points still stand. That leaves one source of plasm for low-man groups. In fact, only one person so far has stated they believe it can be done without a PLD or Zombie.



6 man groups can make 2k plasm in a delve.


Actually, I'm curious about this - for the two who've mentioned this number as attainable (Zagen and Taint) have you guys actually been able to earn this amount as a six-man team, or is this speculation? A one mob per minute pace seems a bit ambitious for six people if they don't already have delve gear - even if you account for 500 from killing the Mata (which also takes a delve h2h).

I'm not saying its not doable eventually, but it definitely sounds like something you'll be needing lots of delve gear already to do. Needing delve gear to make getting delve gear viable is a nasty little catch-22, and wreaks of poor content design.




Why you would want to do 15 delves to get 30k points is beyond me, however. Especially when there are groups that are so good they can make over 10k points, and don't even get me started on how many points a boss kill is worth.

For the record, I don't mind 18 man farming runs. Even a mediocre one can earn 5k, and good ones (as you've said) can earn up to 10. (Do the mega-bosses really give up to 70? Great googly-moogly!)

However, personally speaking, I have three reasons to not mind doing 15 of an event just to get 30k plasm, so long as they can be low-manned. But since this isn't a story-time thread I'll not bore you all with them. I know others will have their own reasons, as well.

Suffice it to say, I simply feel that there should be more than one way (one way that requires you to already have delve gear to be able to do, even).

[Zagen]

That's just it - there have only been three methods suggested, and it seems to me two of those methods aren't reliable. No one has refuted my arguments about that, so those points still stand. That leaves one source of plasm for low-man groups. In fact, only one person so far has stated they believe it can be done without a PLD or Zombie.

Farm up the beads with shout groups locking them. There you go 0 NMs. I'd rather just find a PLD or sac person but whatever floats your boat.


Actually, I'm curious about this - for the two who've mentioned this number as attainable (Zagen and Taint) have you guys actually been able to earn this amount as a six-man team, or is this speculation? A one mob per minute pace seems a bit ambitious for six people if they don't already have delve gear - even if you account for 500 from killing the Mata (which also takes a delve h2h).

I'm not saying its not doable eventually, but it definitely sounds like something you'll be needing lots of delve gear already to do. Needing delve gear to make getting delve gear viable is a nasty little catch-22, and wreaks of poor content design.


Volatile Matamata takes 2 decently geared MNKs (non Delve) with Hundred Fists + Formless Strikes to take it down in 1 round so yeah that's doable.

4 man for "lulz" (DRK, DRG, WHM, BRD): 1,050 (to be fair got lucky on NM spawns)
6 man "serious" attempt ( Delve PUP, PLD, WHM x2, DRG, COR setup if I remember correctly): 2,250 No NMs
11 man run with Matamata kill (I remember MNK x2, BRD, COR, SCH, PLD, WHM, DRK not sure what the rest were): 3,150

On the 11 man I was the only delve weapon player (DRK) the 2 MNKs both had 90 Vere. I held the NM on DRK then they came in to Hundred Fists + Formless Strikes and it died in 1 round.

Something to note that's a big value of fractures is the NMs can be slept so while it does involve sac pulling a way to grab a group of monsters from a NM is to have the BRD sleep the NM bring the links to the group AoE sleep them run back to the NM and wake it to kill the BRD. The normal monsters while having no hate won't despawn so be careful where they get slept.


For the record, I don't mind 18 man farming runs. Even a mediocre one can earn 5k, and good ones (as you've said) can earn up to 10. (Do the mega-bosses really give up to 70? Great googly-moogly!)

However, personally speaking, I have three reasons to not mind doing 15 of an event just to get 30k plasm, so long as they can be low-manned. But since this isn't a story-time thread I'll not bore you all with them. I know others will have their own reasons, as well.

Suffice it to say, I simply feel that there should be more than one way (one way that requires you to already have delve gear to be able to do, even).

As I pointed out and many others have as well there is more than 1 way to farm plasm however none will be as efficient as running 18 man parties in there and that's how it should be in my opinion. You're putting artificial restrictions up by saying "without PLD/zombie/sac", you're wanting to do an event designed for a full alliance, of course you're going to have to use tricks to small man it or pray on luck but I did enough of that in NNI personally.

[Mokeil]

Thanks for providing those numbers, Zagen - especially the job breakdowns. Definite food for thought. (Also, good to see DRG and PUP getting a mention. Yay, pet jobs!)



Something to note that's a big value of fractures is the NMs can be slept so while it does involve sac pulling a way to grab a group of monsters from a NM is to have the BRD sleep the NM bring the links to the group AoE sleep them run back to the NM and wake it to kill the BRD. The normal monsters while having no hate won't despawn so be careful where they get slept.

Now, this is a very big thing! I'll not lie, we never thought to try to sleep the NMs, and I don't imagine it's something many people know at all. Knowing they can be slept in order to stagger the incoming wave of mobs (and affect placement so you're not waiting for the NMs to wander off again) will be a very big help for any one attempting to low-man a fracture.



You're putting artificial restrictions up by saying "without PLD/zombie/sac", you're wanting to do an event designed for a full alliance, of course you're going to have to use tricks to small man it or pray on luck but I did enough of that in NNI personally.

You do have a bit of a point when it comes to just nutting up and dealing, and I never said we weren't doing just that. However, it can take time to be able to field an Ochain PLD, and if PLD isn't your cup of tea then building up to that point is going to suck a lot of fun out of the game. This doesn't apply just to my group, but to any low-man group. I don't think it at all unreasonable to ask for some type of low-man event that allows a bit more flexibility in job choice to do even moderately at, is all.

Now, I do allow that that particular part of my complaint (needing a relic/empy PLD) may also have something to do with the laughably huge disparity between the unkillable PLD and the very best that any other tank job can bring to the table, but I feel that's more a discussion for a job balance thread.

Also, while I may not personally be a fan of Zombies or deliberate sac pulling, I've never said they weren't viable tactics for the strategy of farming in a fracture.

[Zagen]

Now, this is a very big thing! I'll not lie, we never thought to try to sleep the NMs, and I don't imagine it's something many people know at all. Knowing they can be slept in order to stagger the incoming wave of mobs (and affect placement so you're not waiting for the NMs to wander off again) will be a very big help for any one attempting to low-man a fracture.

This might just be my experience but I've noticed that NMs either take a ridiculously long time to move back to their spawn point or they actually don't roam back. This is helpful because you can use the suggestion of the brd going back to die as instead the brd runs up ahead and drags the NMs into one of the further off hallways. Just make sure the BRD is able to get back so the NM doesn't aggro on reraise though if you have a DRK they could just tractor the BRD.


Now, I do allow that that particular part of my complaint (needing a relic/empy PLD) may also have something to do with the laughably huge disparity between the unkillable PLD and the very best that any other tank job can bring to the table, but I feel that's more a discussion for a job balance thread.

Also, while I may not personally be a fan of Zombies or deliberate sac pulling, I've never said they weren't viable tactics for the strategy of farming in a fracture.

Honestly the trick is finding a PLD who doesn't suck Ochain/Aegis go a long way in hiding a sucky PLD. I joined a few late night groups that actually used Adamas/Delve Shield PLDs and they did fine though to be fair those PLDs were super tanking 2 NMs each and had dedicated healers. Sometimes they died but then again so do Ochain/Aegis PLDs.

[Yinnyth]

This might just be my experience but I've noticed that NMs either take a ridiculously long time to move back to their spawn point or they actually don't roam back.

Having some experience with bad sacs in the fracture, I can attest that they do work their way back to their spawn area after deaggroing, so a sacrifice is only a temporary solution. You need multiple deaths/deaggros, or some other method to keep the enemies out of your hair. There are many ways to do it, though most require well-geared and/or skilled players doing things which they still have a chance to fail. The simplest solution people have devised is to just put on twilight and rack up the exp bill, but I'm sure with some practice and ingenuity, any decent group of 6 players could find a work-around.

And by "decent" I don't mean people with a ToM weapon and empy armor who think their undergeared ass is ready for delve.

[Babygyrl]

I would love this.. But my issue isnt so much lack of a big LS.. my issue is the shitty Wildskeeper reeve clear you need to get the key item.. 100k bayld for temp item to even enter? come on! If more people had this KI to make the item it would be a bit easier to have fracture farms

[Zagen]

I would love this.. But my issue isnt so much lack of a big LS.. my issue is the shitty Wildskeeper reeve clear you need to get the key item.. 100k bayld for temp item to even enter? come on! If more people had this KI to make the item it would be a bit easier to have fracture farms

It's funny you mention that, every shout run I've gone on (there's about 4-5 people who constantly shout) multiple players have been able to offer up the KI to enter because they've already converted a rock and are looking to get 1-3 airlixirs locked to them as that's customary. None of the people who offer it up are the shouters, in a few cases the shouter didn't even have the ability to take the group into the fracture.

While I agree that the KI is a pain in the butt to get, at least on Bismarck it's more of a lack of shepherds and a plethora of sheep (myself included as I only lead when I'm with friends as I know what to expect from them).

[Babygyrl]

It's funny you mention that, every shout run I've gone on (there's about 4-5 people who constantly shout) multiple players have been able to offer up the KI to enter because they've already converted a rock and are looking to get 1-3 airlixirs locked to them as that's customary. None of the people who offer it up are the shouters, in a few cases the shouter didn't even have the ability to take the group into the fracture.

While I agree that the KI is a pain in the butt to get, at least on Bismarck it's more of a lack of shepherds and a plethora of sheep (myself included as I only lead when I'm with friends as I know what to expect from them).

Yep, pretty much the opposite on rag.

[xiozen]

Bump this; Is it possible to at least NOW, allow for solo entry into Delve w/ Trust summonable... enough time has past. For those unable to garner other players (esp on a low pop server) to enter and properly get through each Delve, is at this point, ridiculous.

Dev, please look at ADJUSTING this based on the fact that 2.5 million plasma is a requirement to complete an ergon weapon... can't keep it locked down behind this gate any longer... unrealistic.