Elemental Magic Adjustments Continued [Archive]

View Full Version : Elemental Magic Adjustments Continued

Camate

06-06-2013, 03:14 AM

Hello!

In regards to the elemental magic adjustments (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34243-dev1144-Elemental-Magic-Adjustments) that were implemented on the Test Server last week, we will be continuing our adjustments on -ga spells, -ja spells, -ra spells, ancient magic, and comet during this week's Test Serve update.

Below is an outline of the adjustment content.

-ga Spells

Damage will be adjusted as below.
* The values given below are before the effects of Magic Attack Bonus have been accounted for.
*In the chart below, "INT +0" and "INT +100" refer to the differences in INT between the caster and the target.

<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=5 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td rowspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7">-ga Tier 1</td> <td colspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">INT+0</td> <td colspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">INT+100</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Earth</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">56</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">60</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">123</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">310</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Water</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">74</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">80</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">146</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">315</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Wind</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">96</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">100</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">155</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">320</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Fire</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">120</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">120</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">208</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">325</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ice</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">145</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">160</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">241</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">350</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Lightning</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">172</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">200</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">271</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">375</td> </tr></table>
<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=5 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td rowspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7">-ga Tier II</td> <td colspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">INT+0</td> <td colspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">INT+100</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Earth</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">201</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">250</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">300</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">600</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Water</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">232</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">280</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">331</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">610</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Wind</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">266</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">310</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">365</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">620</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Fire</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">312</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">340</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">411</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">630</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ice</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">350</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">370</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">450</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">640</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Lightning</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">392</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">400</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">541</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">650</td> </tr></table>
<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=5 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td rowspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7">-ga Tier III</td> <td colspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">INT+0</td> <td colspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">INT+100</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Earth</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">434</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">500</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">525</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">950</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Water</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">480</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">540</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">630</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">970</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Wind</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">527</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">580</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">676</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">990</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Fire</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">589</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">620</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">738</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1015</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ice</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">642</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">660</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">791</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1035</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Lightning</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">697</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">700</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">846</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1055</td> </tr></table>
　

The MP cost, casting times, and recast times of -ga spells will be adjusted as shown below.

<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=7 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td width="25%" rowspan=2 align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">-ga Tier I</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">MP Cost</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Casting Time</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Recast Time</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Earth</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">37</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">24</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">2.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">2</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">11</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Water</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">47</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">34</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">2.75</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">2</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">12.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Wind</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">57</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">45</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">3</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">2</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">13.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Fire</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">71</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">57</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">3.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">2</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">15.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ice</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">82</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">80</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">3.75</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">2</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">16.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Lightning</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">95</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">105</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">2</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">17.75</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5</td></tr></table>
<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=7 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td width="25%" rowspan=2 align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">-ga Tier II</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">MP Cost</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Casting Time</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Recast Time</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Earth</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">109</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">93</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">4.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">19</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Water</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">123</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">112</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">4.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">20.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Wind</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">138</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">131</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">21.75</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Fire</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">158</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">153</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">23.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ice</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">175</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">175</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">24.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Lightning</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">193</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">200</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">6</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">26</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td></tr></table>
<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=7 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td width="25%" rowspan=2 align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">-ga Tier III</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">MP Cost</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Casting Time</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Recast Time</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Earth</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">211</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">175</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">6.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">27.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">25</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Water</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">231</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">202</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">6.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">28.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">25</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Wind</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">252</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">232</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">6.75</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">29.75</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">25</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Fire</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">277</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">263</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">31.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">25</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ice</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">299</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">297</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">32.75</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">25</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Lightning</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">322</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">332</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7.75</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">34</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">25</td></tr></table>

　
-ja Spells

Damage will be adjusted as below.
* The values given below are before the effects of Magic Attack Bonus have been accounted for.
*In the chart below, "INT +0" and "INT +100" refer to the differences in INT between the caster and the target.

<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=5 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td rowspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7">-ja Spells</td> <td colspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">INT+0</td> <td colspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">INT+100</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Earth</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">719</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">750</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">947</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1300</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Water</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">782</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">800</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1010</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1317</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Wind</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">844</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">850</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1076</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1335</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Fire</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">902</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">900</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1130</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1352</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ice</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">953</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">950</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1181</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1370</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Lightning</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1005</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1000</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1233</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1387</td> </tr></table>
　

The MP cost, casting times, and recast times of -ja spells will be adjusted as shown below.

<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=7 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td width="25%" rowspan=2 align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">-ja Spells</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">MP Cost</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Casting Time</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Recast Time</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Earth</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">299</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">298</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">45</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">45</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Water</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">322</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">318</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">46.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">45</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Wind</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">344</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">338</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">47.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">45</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Fire</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">364</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">358</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7.75</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">48.75</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">45</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ice</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">380</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">378</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">8</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">50</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">45</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Lightning</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">396</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">398</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">8.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">51.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">45</td></tr></table>
　
-ra Spells

Damage will be adjusted as below.
* The values given below are before the effects of Magic Attack Bonus have been accounted for.
*In the chart below, "INT +0" and "INT +100" refer to the differences in INT between the caster and the target.

<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=5 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td rowspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7">-ra Tier I</td> <td colspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">INT+0</td> <td colspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">INT+100</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Earth</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">128</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">150</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">217</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">400</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Water</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">153</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">180</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">250</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">415</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Wind</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">179</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">210</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">279</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">430</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Fire</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">216</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">240</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">316</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">445</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ice</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">247</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">270</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">347</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">460</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Lightning</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">282</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">300</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">382</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">475</td> </tr></table>
<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=5 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td rowspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7">-ra Tier II</td> <td colspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">INT+0</td> <td colspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">INT+100</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Earth</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">317</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">350</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">417</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">700</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Water</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">356</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">390</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">456</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">720</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Wind</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">396</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">430</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">496</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">740</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Fire</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">450</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">470</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">600</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">760</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ice</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">496</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">510</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">646</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">780</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Lightning</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">544</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">550</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">694</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">800</td> </tr></table>
　

The MP cost, casting times, and recast times of -ra spells will be adjusted as shown below.

<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=7 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td width="25%" rowspan=2 align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">-ra Tier I</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">MP Cost</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Casting Time</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Recast Time</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Earth</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">73</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">57</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">3.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">15</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Water</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">85</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">68</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">3.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">16.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Wind</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">97</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">80</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">4</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">18</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Fire</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">115</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">97</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">4.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">19.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ice</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">129</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">111</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">4.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">21</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Lightning</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">144</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">126</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">22.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5</td></tr></table>
<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=7 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td width="25%" rowspan=2 align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">-ra Tier II</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">MP Cost</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Casting Time</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Recast Time</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Earth</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">160</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">150</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">3</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">23</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">15</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Water</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">177</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">169</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">3</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">24.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">15</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Wind</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">195</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">188</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">6</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">3</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">26</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">15</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Fire</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">218</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">213</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">6.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">3</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">27.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">15</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ice</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">237</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">235</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">6.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">3</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">29</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">15</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Lightning</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">258</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">258</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">3</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">30.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">15</td></tr></table>

　
Ancient Magic Spells

Along with the reduction of enmity that is generated, these spells will be changed to a fixed type of enmity generation*.
The MP cost, casting times, and recast times of ancient magic spells will be adjusted as shown below.

*A set value is added to time-volatile enmity and damage-volatile enmity when an action is successful. This is applies to enhancements and enfeebles that generally do not have numerical results.　

Please refer to this (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/30629-Enmity-System-Explanation-and-Planned-Adjustments?p=402769&viewfull=1#post402769) post to read the explanation of the enmity system.

<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=7 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td width="25%" rowspan=2 align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ancient Magic I</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">MP Cost</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Casting Time</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Recast Time</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Earth</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">337</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">315</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">18.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">12</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">42.75</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">60</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Water</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">368</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">315</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">18.75</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">12</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">43.75</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">60</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Wind</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">322</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">315</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">18</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">12</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">42.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">60</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Fire</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">383</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">315</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">19</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">12</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">44.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">60</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ice</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">307</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">315</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">17.75</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">12</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">41.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">60</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Lightning</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">352</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">315</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">18.5</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">12</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">43.25</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">60</td></tr></table>
<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=7 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td width="25%" rowspan=2 align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ancient Magic II</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">MP Cost</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Casting Time</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Recast Time</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Earth</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">287</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">280</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">90</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">60</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Water</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">287</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">280</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">90</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">60</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Wind</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">287</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">280</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">90</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">60</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Fire</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">287</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">280</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">90</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">60</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Ice</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">287</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">280</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">90</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">60</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Lightning</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">287</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">280</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">90</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">60</td></tr></table>

　
Comet

Damage will be adjusted as below.
* The values given below are before the effects of Magic Attack Bonus have been accounted for.
*In the chart below, "INT +0" and "INT +100" refer to the differences in INT between the caster and the target.

<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=5 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td rowspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7"> </td> <td colspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">INT+0</td> <td colspan=2 bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">INT+100</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td> <td colspan=1 width="20%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Comet</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">964</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1000</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1193</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">1387</td> </tr> </table>
　

The MP cost, casting time, and recast time of Comet will be adjusted.

<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><col width=72 span=7 style='width:54pt'><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"> <td width="25%" rowspan=2 align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7"> </td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">MP Cost</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Casting Time</td> <td colspan=2 width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Recast Time</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">Before</td> <td bgcolor="#a8d0d7" width="12%" align="center">After</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"> <td align="center" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Comet</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">367</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">350</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">11</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">60</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#eaf2f3">45</td></tr></table>

Minikom

06-06-2013, 05:39 AM

Where is Meteor?

Tennotsukai

06-06-2013, 05:59 AM

Hey Camate, with all these changes to elemental magic, is there any chance you guys can take a look at Blue Mage's elemental spells as well? IMO, they are lacking way far behind most damage types in the game. With the exception of a few AoEs like Charged Whisker, Thunderbolt, and Thermal Pulse, I rarely use the other elemental spells.

Demon6324236

06-06-2013, 06:52 AM

I hope AM gets a damage boost as well.

Besides that, I also hope many spells are still to come, Helix, NIN spells, BLU spells, Banish spells, and so on.

RAIST

06-06-2013, 08:22 AM

Where is Meteor?

Still in the "non-elemental" category....unfortunately.

May be more accurate to call it elementally neutral....as it has no one specific elemental affinity, so likely not being included in the "elemental magic adjustments".

Demon6324236

06-06-2013, 08:25 AM

Still in the "non-elemental" category....unfortunately.

May be more accurate to call it elementally neutral....as it has no one specific elemental affinity, so likely not being included in the "elemental magic adjustments".While you are correct, I hope they do not do it that way... the spell is already worthless enough as it is...

Ophannus

06-06-2013, 08:48 AM

How about Helix?

Babekeke

06-06-2013, 02:28 PM

Can anyone confirm whether the gap between INT+0 and INT+100 is linear?

Zirael

06-06-2013, 04:42 PM

Impact?
abcdefg

Secondplanet

06-06-2013, 08:21 PM

Are these gonna be applied to the elemental spirits for summoner? Or is that forgotten/Over looked like normal?

Ryolen

06-06-2013, 08:37 PM

I'm pretty sure that the spell in itself is getting updated so spirits and automatons shouldn't be left out. They use the exact same spell that blms, schs and geos use.

HimuraKenshyn

06-06-2013, 10:08 PM

IMPACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leatherman

06-06-2013, 10:28 PM

Any info on Impact Spell? Will it change the mana cost and increase the damage? Is it worth it keeping this cloak piece that takes 2 slots?

darkhorror

06-07-2013, 01:08 AM

Any changes going to be made for ninjutsu? Maybe change it so that it is a single merit category for access and boost all spells.

Kincard

06-07-2013, 03:14 AM

The main point of Impact isn't its damage anyway, so I wouldn't really fret if they don't end up touching it. It'd be nice, I suppose, but a boost to its accuracy or even its potency would actually be preferable.

And as much as I want to say that they should also update Ninjutsu -ton spells and BLU magical spells, I feel that they'll just end up being crap anyway so why even bother. I'd rather they fix other things on those jobs if I could bargain.

Rwolf

06-07-2013, 07:43 AM

I hope they add Impact to adjustments, just for the sake of MP cost primarily. I could care less if it dealt more damage because like Kincard stated, it's damage isn't the primary function anyway. However I'd like to personally see it a more common and viable option for use. Versus now where it's barely used because of MP cost (especially now being outside of abyssea and voidwatch temps) and more important things having priority for stratagem charges if you're even SCH or /SCH.

Kuvo

06-07-2013, 12:55 PM

I would also like to see an adjustment for a damage boost on mobs that are weak to a particular element over another. I remember reading a long time ago they were looking into that as well but haven't seen updates about that. I just find it silly to have a mob that is weak to wind take less damage from your top wind spell then from lightning spells or even ice spells.

Babekeke

06-07-2013, 02:43 PM

Demon6324236

06-07-2013, 03:07 PM

I only use Impact on RDM, when I have tons of Fresh and Vert to cover me after I throw it out at the start of a fight, which is the only time I can be bothered to use it because any other time I either can not spare the MP, or do not have it anyways. It would be a great spell if not for that whole MP thing though, its just SE's version of balance we all love.

Rwolf

06-08-2013, 09:24 AM

Manawell for this^^.

Thanks. I forgot about Manawell in my prior post. However, the statement stays the same. The MP cost is so high that you need a MP reducing ability for it to be viable in any decently challenging event because of necessary MP conservation. With conserving MP, any MP reducing abilities are prioritized to more vital to your role responsibilities.

If a spell's MP cost relies almost entirely on being reduced to be viable in battle, it is broken in my opinion. Instead of it being a tool for strategy, it is a strategy to use the tool. The stat reduction and damage dealt doesn't justify that high of an MP cost, especially after this update. However I think the MP should still be somewhat high given the damage + stat reduction.

Comet is getting an adjustment and it's the closest spell to Impact right now in base damage.

Comet (new adjustment)
INT+0 Base Damage: 1000
MP Cost: 350
Casting Time: 10 seconds
Recast Time: 45 seconds

Impact
INT+0 Base Damage: 969 (from testing done by others, sounds about right)
MP Cost: 666
Casting Time: 14 seconds
Recast Time: 120 seconds

316mp difference (666mp -350mp Comet) for a -20% attribute reduction. In my opinion, I'd rather have them just lower the damage so I can use the attribute down more frequently versus balancing it above 400 mp to justify damage dealt.

Camate

06-18-2013, 03:56 AM

Greetings!

I have a couple of follow-ups to your questions regarding the elemental magic adjustments.

Where is Meteor?

We have no plans at the moment to make adjustments to Meteor. This spell does not belong to any element and its damage is affected through magic attack bonus and the number of people casting the spell.

Are these gonna be applied to the elemental spirits for summoner?

Due to the fact that these adjustments will only be applied to player characters and not to monsters, the elemental magic adjustments will not be applied to spirits because the magic they use is treated as a monster type of magic.

On the other hand, the magic used by automatons and adventuring fellows are classified as player type magic, and as such these adjustments will be applied to them as well.

Jerbob

06-18-2013, 05:05 AM

...the elemental magic adjustments will not be applied to spirits...
Well goodness me, this is quite unexpected.

Oh, wait...

Daemon

06-18-2013, 05:55 AM

This post is in regard to the new elemental magic adjustment.

Sorry Guys I did post this on the test server feedback area thinking that it was the correct place to share my opinion, so Please forgive me for the repost here, As it seems the devs are responding through this post only.

Please I do hope people can analyze what ive written. And thanks!

I will only write about Tier 4 spells then you can get a better understanding of the rest after you see my point.

Tier IV
MP Cost
Before After

164 190 ICE
171 219 THUNDER

Tier 4 spells will cost more mp... 190 MP for Ice, 219 for Thunder, that would mean at level 99 you would barely cast 5 spells before running out of mp... (I didn't add MP gear because most likely mages will be switching gears during each cast) so let's say the average mage has about 1k MP to dedicate toward nukes)

Maybe this won't matter for people playing in Abby but this clearly will be an issue in areas where no temp items/ atmas are available.

If you only cast Ice IV alone the increase is 26 more mp per cast than now meaning if you casted this 1 spell 5 times, it will cost you 130 more MP. For a total of 950 MP to cast 5 times.

If you only cast Thunder IV alone the increase is 42 more mp per cast than now meaning if you casted this 1 spell 5 times, it will cost you 210 more MP. For a total of 1,095 MP to cast 5 times.

Do you see my concern? ^^

Just because you can kill stuff faster wont matter if there is an increase in downtime.

Increasing the power of spells is nice and well deserved at 99 especially if we are investing the time and money to get high INT equipment [above 100+] (And us nuking jobs have been long overdue the attention/ ESP BLM), but making spells cost more mp for Tier 4 & 5 would mean either no one uses those spells often anymore or less play and more sitting to recover mp. It will also drain MP faster during events where procs are needed.

And if you're going to tell us to just use tier 3 and below that's like telling any other 99 job to take a step down. Maybe Tier 1-3 might be mp effecient and useful for solo purposes outside events/adoulin in low level areas, but for VW/Abby BLM will have to spam Tier4, AM, JA, GA spells for proc, and these events are fast pace compare to soloing.

I just don't see anyone wanting to Nuke Tier 3 and lower at boss fights. If Nukers have more downtime, then playing the roll of "Nuker" will become less popular than it already is now. (For the fact that 18 man alliances need other jobs too and not just Nukers)

Think about the people who play outside of Abby/VW.
It's pretty sad to be level 99 and only be able to maybe cast 5 tier IV spells (That's if you didn't waste mp on buffing yourself and others before battle). Maybe less for other race than Taru.

Personally, (and i cant speak for others) but Id rather not have the elemental change at all if there's going to be more downtime. It's already bad enough as it is having to wait for mp recovery only being able to kill 1 mob in adoulin with full mp as a redmage.

Sad no? Level 99 and it cost over 1k mp to kill only 1 monster in adoulin....

I didn't even mention what it would be like for jobs who casts Tier 5 Spells.

Why SE are you afraid to give us a little power? So far you guys give adjustments like these disguised to look like a great thing but secretly take away that power through some catch.

Like people got excited about the merit adjustment for ws however most of us that are strict to meriting 5 points for the purpose of having a max damage ws have no use for that adjustment.

[Just my personal opinion] Having the ability to see higher number damage is great and all, and all of us at 99 already killing ourselves trying to obtain the best gears to accomplish this, but as a mage job id prefer less downtime over higher damage/mp cost. Having high damage means more enmity.

Or please give us some hope that some miracle adjustment will be made to all mages where SE Devs will grant us a nice boost in MP or add stronger Refresh gear beyond the 1-3 tick per piece. Something, anything would be more than appreciated

Clearly this new mage adjustment is good for players at lower levels who can make use of the lower tier spells. And yes recast and casting adjustment helps benefit every mage job that doesn't nuke, only use the lower tiers for procs but observe what you are adjusting (Elemental spells clearly to improve Nukers) , and most of us are beyond the level 75 era where we would like to very much make use of the spells we bought especially some of us who paid over 7 mil for Tier 5/Comet, 10+ mil gil for Meteor. (I'm still disappointed that u need to use Elemental seal to cast it each time. The spell itself is a real MP Killer as it is, the spell doesn't even do massive damage solo and not very many people even have the spell yet being that it's difficult to obtain but even if it wasn't limited to single use with elemental seal, the cost of the spell is very high, and we all know it "can " be amazing dmg with several blm but at what events do you see several blm team up for meteor? Not saying it never happens but BLM job itself is nothing more than a nuker therefore left out on a good majority of events that other jobs serve better purpose when blm is not needed for proc)

Edit: You give us this amazing spell, since day one of FFXI Release over a decade ago, we got to see intro video everyday that we logged in of the little cute tarus casting Meteor, Dream about it every single day from the start of the world of this amazing game us fans have come to love wondering when the day will arrive when we will finally get the spell only to find out that through such rarity, extreme limitations, that the spell has not made a proper debut yet. How much longer do you need us to wait before we can have some real fun and enjoy what you have given us? Some of us players are getting old, youd be surprised, I have friend reaching age 60.. Are you waiting for the generation of our kids or our great grand kids? Some of us would love to blow stuff up with a great big bang within this lifetime... so please dont forget about us too....:eek:

I've yet to see even 1 BLM invited for adoulin/Delve... So yeah this update was pretty exciting until seeing that a good amount of spells will now cost more mp than now when update happens.

It would be nice to play in areas independently where we can stop relying on temp items and atmas, then maybe people will learn to get -pdt gear, buy food and meds and show up at event ready.

Thank you for talking the time to read my concern over the new upcoming adjustments.

bigdave

06-18-2013, 06:07 AM

so keep blm's meteor useless thanks for making me waste 30 million gil on it

Demon6324236

06-18-2013, 06:26 AM

so keep blm's meteor useless thanks for making me waste 30 million gil on itThis... is so very correct. I have never once seen any party for any event bring 6 BLMs, even 3 BLMs is only in VW and any time I have ever asked the other BLMs if they had it, I have had 1 said yes, and every other one has said no. This spell was built flawed, rather than being the ultimate BLM spell its become the ultimate BLM waste of gil, providing nothing for the job in the end, and if its damage will be even lower by compare to others, it becomes only worse...

Zhronne

06-18-2013, 07:48 AM

What about Helix damage? Kaustra damage?

Chimerawizard

06-18-2013, 10:31 AM

stuff
You hit the nail on the head. While a Nuking DD can deal a lot of DMG in a single instant, it's still only about the same as a fully buffed DD can do on a single WS. They don't have any concerns with recast, MP, & have the HP/def to take a hit when they pull hate. Also, between WS's they get to dmg the mob with constant melee swings making them able to deal even MORE dmg. Forget not that WAR/MNK/DRK/SAM/RNG are the competition for DD spots in a party. They also win every time in dmg, & almost every time at survivability.

Meteor is an expensive and weak spell. A typical delve boss has 1m+ HP. meteor can do ~50k. how long would it take two parties of BLM's + tank party to kill one of those? (BLM parties cycle meteor every 5 minutes to avoid the resistance) There is just no place to use meteor in the game.

Dear SE:
I have for you a new formula for Meteor that will make it worth more than just collecting dust in the spell list.
DMG=['final caster mythic bonus?']x['total elemental magic skill'/100]x[total INT/100]^(final caster's MAB)
notice MAB is only taken from the final caster & it is not multiplied with other terms, instead it takes the other terms and brings it to a power of INT.
Devil's advocate, 6BLMs w/ lots of INT & final caster w/ mythic.
DMG=1.1x[4.2x6]x[2.00x6]^[3.5]
DMG=27.72x5986
DMG=165,930

That looks like real meteor dmg combining 6 BLMs (I think there's a 99,999 dmg cap, so 99,999 would be the actual ending dmg).

I actually think that is how MAB should work in all spells anyway. There are dimishing returns from increased INT & MAB on all spells. If a term were made to take another term to a power, nuke DD's might be capable of competing with physical DD's for a spot. Haste gives an increasing return the more that is stacked. Mages don't benefit from that haste since it just means we run out of MP that much quicker.

On another note, It's time Modus Veritas got un-nerf'd. Even with 10 SCH's, with 5/5 MV merits, using it on a single helix it'll have 1 tick before it wears, the dmg from which would be 1024x normal dmg, so ~350k on a good day, oh wait, there's a 99,999 dmg cap. so dmg would only be 99,999. 10 alliance spots for 99,999dmg? DD's still outrank the alliance of sch's thanks to the recast on MV. (6x SCH is only 64x normal DMG & 1.95 ticks) making Meteor a stronger nuke if adjusted the way mentioned above.

Forgot to mention:
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, please give some feedback on "How would you like certain items to be changed?" (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29797-How-would-you-like-certain-items-to-be-changed)
You made the thread after all.

Motenten

06-18-2013, 12:57 PM

Raksha

06-18-2013, 12:58 PM

What about Helix damage? Kaustra damage?

Seconded..

Kristal

06-18-2013, 09:34 PM

What about Helix damage? Kaustra damage?

Those are damage over time spells, and Kaustra isn't even elemental magic. This thread is about nukes, so while Meteor is relevant, helixes and Kaustra are not. Might as well ask about RDM merit tier 2 changes then.

Kristal

06-18-2013, 09:45 PM

On the other hand, the magic used by automatons and adventuring fellows are classified as player type magic, and as such these adjustments will be applied to them as well.

It's nice to know automatons aren't forgotten, I have a feeling umbrils are not going to like that update ;D
I just hope that MP increase on Thunder V isn't going to cause the maton to initiate Aspir/Aspir II spam mode after the first nuke...

Slib

06-18-2013, 10:33 PM

Demon6324236

06-18-2013, 11:46 PM

Those are damage over time spells, and Kaustra isn't even elemental magic. This thread is about nukes, so while Meteor is relevant, helixes and Kaustra are not. Might as well ask about RDM merit tier 2 changes then.I am assuming you do not know much about Helix spells or Kaustra.

Yes, they are DoT spells, but their original damage is what effects the damage that is delt over time. For instance if you use a Helix on a mob for 150 damage, it will do 150 damage every time the DoT hurts the mob. Kaustra is similar and yet different, it goes by roughly 1/3rd of the original damage every tick. Also, while Kaustra is in fact a Dark Magic spell, Helix spells are actually elemental spells, all of them have elements attached, and thus, at very least Helix spells should be included in this adjustment. The fact they are damage over time should not change the fact they need adjusted as well, because that exact damage is effected by the original damage, so without them being improved, these spells will fall into the pile of worthless spells just like Meteor and such.

Demon6324236

06-18-2013, 11:49 PM

Many people tell me BLM aren't DD. I used to be successful in proving them wrong before Adoulin...but now it's rediculous with the new weapons :(These adjustments will only put it back where it was too, where decent WARs can either keep up with or beat BLM, and good WARs can beat BLMs all the time. Originally these adjustments seemed as though they would make nuking a viable source of damage, comparable to melee damage, but instead... looks like all its going to do is set it further behind in the race than it was before Adoulin was even released.

Kristal

06-19-2013, 12:23 AM

I am assuming you do not know much about Helix spells or Kaustra.

Yes, they are DoT spells, but their original damage is what effects the damage that is delt over time. For instance if you use a Helix on a mob for 150 damage, it will do 150 damage every time the DoT hurts the mob. Kaustra is similar and yet different, it goes by roughly 1/3rd of the original damage every tick. Also, while Kaustra is in fact a Dark Magic spell, Helix spells are actually elemental spells, all of them have elements attached, and thus, at very least Helix spells should be included in this adjustment. The fact they are damage over time should not change the fact they need adjusted as well, because that exact damage is effected by the original damage, so without them being improved, these spells will fall into the pile of worthless spells just like Meteor and such.

I'm aware of the mechanics of these spells, and while I'm sure they could use some dev love, they are not the focus of this particular update. Just like cure spells and enfeebling magic got their own updates, dot spells will (probably) get their own little attention span by the devs.

As for making Meteor usefull, there's a very simple solution for that. Give the spell to BLM automatons, and limit it's casting to Overdrive (perhaps as an automatic reaction to a party BLM casting the spell, so they can't use it without a BLM present).

Annalise

06-19-2013, 12:51 AM

I'm aware of the mechanics of these spells, and while I'm sure they could use some dev love, they are not the focus of this particular update. Just like cure spells and enfeebling magic got their own updates, dot spells will (probably) get their own little attention span by the devs.

As for making Meteor usefull, there's a very simple solution for that. Give the spell to BLM automatons, and limit it's casting to Overdrive (perhaps as an automatic reaction to a party BLM casting the spell, so they can't use it without a BLM present).

Even though they are damage over time spells, this is "Elemental Magic Adjustments". Helix spells are Elemental Magic. Yes, they work different, but they are still applicable.

RAIST

06-19-2013, 07:42 AM

Have to understand that helixes are a completely different animal though--thier main use is the DoT factor, which may run 15 rounds at 99 (possibly longer?). Though they receive bonuses from INT/MAB and get day/weather bonus/penalties like direct damage elemental spells....their main benefit is their DoT factor.

Let's take the given example of 150 damage with say Ionohelix. That's potentially upwards of 2250 damage (150 X 15) for just 26 MP. Compare that to the cost of a BLM's spells capable of such output. Even if it's on for a shorter duration, like say 9 rounds, that's still 1350 damage for just 26 MP--with very low enmity pull by comparison.

Thus, they are already VASTLY more efficient than a BLM's nukes (when the mob survives the full duration of the spell, that is)--and still will be after these adjustments.

Bear in mind also, Helixes are spells that are learned below level 50 (as in available with subjob)...not something that had to be meritted at 75 or otherwise learned around 70 or higher. Just further stresses the need to enhance direct damage elemental magic--the alternative could be for SE to focus on balancing things by nerfing Helixes. We don't want that, now do we?

Demon6324236

06-19-2013, 08:27 AM

Bear in mind also, Helixes are spells that are learned below level 50 (as in available with subjob)...not something that had to be meritted at 75 or otherwise learned around 70 or higher. Just further stresses the need to enhance direct damage elemental magic--the alternative could be for SE to focus on balancing things by nerfing Helixes. We don't want that, now do we?The duration cut is the balance for having them as a subjob.

RAIST

06-19-2013, 09:13 AM

The duration cut is the balance for having them as a subjob.

Even so, it's still what...7-9 ticks as a level 49 cast?. Base damage around 25, modified by dINT and MAB, as well as day/weather bonuses. That's still a nice spot of potential damage from a 26 mp spell that you learned around level 28 or so.

And that's the point I was trying to make. A spell learned below level 40 that when used at 99 can out damage and be vastly more efficient than one that has to be meritted at 75 or otherwise learned around level 70 or higher--can even rival/exceed the output/efficiency of a spell learned at level 90+ for that matter.

Daemon

06-19-2013, 10:24 AM

Seriously I do hope the devs reanalyze the way us mages have it in game. Its pretty ridiculous that we are heavily needed on most jobs as support to keep the non magic casting jobs alive and a good amount of our mp go toward that and the very few Nuking jobs that we do have are being given limitations and unfair adjustments. On the nuking side of things, Making us use even more mp to cast spells that are not even new..... Whats going on?

How old are Tier IV spells?

We are given new gears through adoulin/delve to improve our MAB+INT Etc, then adjustments from the devs are being made to improve our dmg makes me think that the dmg with the new gears was off and thats why these stats are being changed

where as....

DD gets new gears and their dmg are even more massive than before yet I dont see any adjustments being made so they can "Have more power but more downtime"

Blackmage is not a cheap class to play. Some of us, If not all, actually spend Millions of gil on 1 spell .... "Cough..... Meteor.... Cough......"

And by the way, this is not about Abyssea, where you have cruor buffs, atmas, and other options to give you overpowered stats and abilities...temp items to give you MP...

This is about playing outside zones where you depend on your real stats. Where you actually have to carry food, medicine, elixers, TP wings, any other viable resources to recover your mp.

SE really... You give us a cookie but take away our milk.

Daemon

06-19-2013, 10:39 AM

@Daemon: Obviously, then, you'd switch to Stone/Water nukes if you want to improve MP efficiency. Damage per MP on tier 4s, for a given nuke set (per my spreadsheet) is 11.7 for Thunder IV, and 19.8 for Stone IV. That is, for a 1000 MP pool, you'd do a bit under 12k damage with Thunder IV, and nearly 20k damage with Stone IV.

If casting more nukes isn't a problem, you can improve it further by dropping to Stone III, where you'd have 22.4 damage per MP. It's a small improvement, and you'd only go that route if you needed very bit of MP efficiency possible.

And you don't need yet another Magian staff for it; Int and MAB are going to be better options for the 'lower' elements.

For tier 5's, it's 20.3 dmg/mp for Stone V vs 11.6 dmg/mp for Thunder V.

Yes I know cycling through different tier IV and III spells can help you conserve mp, but my post was not about that. I just took only Ice and Thunder IV as an example that if you casted each of those spells 5 times at level 99 with the new MP cost adjustment, how much MP we are using?

Which my concern is Tier IV spells are not the highest Tier spells in game yet the cost of these spells are being adjusted to use more MP than now in the future update..

Do we really need to sit and recover mp all day like we did back in the level 30's before abyssea?

Think about it this way, People who use kraken club only make monster TP faster, which proves that having too much haste depending on the situation could turn out bad if you are speeding up the fight right?

Dealing more damage to a monster with a spell in a party situation will only give you more enmity, which could put the entire party at risk right? therefore BLM and other nukers will have absolutely no choice but to use lower tier spells regardless right?

But when you are soloing, and you need to kill a monster fast, and Tier 4 spell is not exactly the best spell we have but one of the higher decent spells we have that we use on a daily basis gets an mp raise. Whether you deal 1k or 10k damage, it doesnt change the fact that you still have to sit the same amount of time to recover mp. You are just given a reason to sit down faster.

And if the Damage is raised THAT HIGH with the new adjustment, which i highly doubt, What will happen during VW/Abbysea when you need to proc with Tier 4 spells? Strip your clothes off so you dont deal enough damage to make boss wanna murder you?

Ive already taken note that even lower tier spells are given a boost in damage, and yes lower mp cost than now, which is fine if you are playing in lower level areas.

But when you are playing in Adoulin, we dont have time to be casting these lower tier spells on monsters when dealing with something that can kill you in 3-4 hits.....

Daemon

06-19-2013, 12:15 PM

Also please take in consideration that BLM and Nuking jobs do in fact have competition with DD jobs.

THIS IS AT END GAME POINT OF VIEW

The reason Nukers were needed back in the day before Abyssea was for Magic Burst, or because they could deal a massive amount of damage instantly to a monster enough to make a difference and wanted for in parties compared to DD jobs that didnt have the gear/ abilities like self skillchain, as we have today (Note: DDs are always favored by mages to be out protection, our shield). To be included and not forgotten, SE gave Blackmage the ability to proc in Abyssea/VW.

And because back then DD jobs did not have the best gears/ REM/ Abilites as we have now, People did in fact have patience to wait on BLM to recover MP because everyone knew that the job could deal massive amounts of dmg VS DD plus it was a slower environment. Yet today we are living in a way faster environment than before, Events dont have time to wait on BLM to recover MP.

Times have changed and today this is the hardcore truth....

Why on earth would any party want to hire a Nuker when you can get a DD who can deal the same damage (if not more thanks to delve) VS 1 spell in 1 weapon skill especially jobs that can self skillchain, spam WS, no downtime, outdamage nukers over time, and has a much higher ability to survive being that DD job have higher HP, Higher Defense, better capability to own higher Defense gear/ -pdt gear?

TP is the DDs version of MP Pool, except they have several gears and support buffs, subjobs (SAM) to make TP regain faster with no limitations. They do not have to rest to raise it, does not need to spend it on every functional aspect of the job that limits them or Forces them to make wise making decisions to stay fluent, only needing it to dedicate toward Weapon skills unless you are playing Dancer. Regardless of any level WS, TP cost to use any and all Weaponskills can still be used at 100% TP where as BLM spells vary in MP cost on every level.

Which is better? Asking for a job who has EMP/Merit or a mage who has magian trial? Sadly asking for a mage if they own REM/Merit doesnt make any difference why? Merit weapon skill Realmreazer and Shattersoul? Wait thats DD WS, Mages are not DD. Hvelgamir For BLM? Wait that only recover MP and aftermath for occ dmg? So that does nothing to contribute in dmg factor. Sure BLM can gain MP with Hvelgamir, but then TP is the issue... Do you see my points here?

Mage REM doesnt give people enough reason, motivation, drive to go out and make these because either magian trial staffs are easier and give a reasonable cause to make due without or because some of the stats are just not good enough to want to put the effort in obtaining something we can already make due without, also why waste time on this if there is no wow factor? Some of these trials are beyond ridiculous... Mythic?

Shattersoul Magic Defense reduction / Omniscience Magic attack reduction? Vidohunir Lower Magic Defence? Same as Shattersoul ..Failed and became unpopular that GEOMANCER was given these as spells. (Reason? Lack of Merit points to waste on getting Shattersoul? Because you actually have to DD to use it? Omniscience? Because you actually need to DD and gain TP to use it which doesnt even last long?

Whitemages have to heal all party members anyways so there can be no arguement that nukers can be self sufficient from having cure. Especially when DD have the same abilty to sub a support job for cure as BLM can.

At end game, Nukers should be able to recover MP much faster than wasting several slots on refresh gear, Cast more than 5 spells, and not have to sit every 3 minutes to recover MP.

As I pointed out before its just sad being a level 99 mage and depleting your entire mp pool on 1 monster in Adoulin.

Nukers have less Defense, Less HP, Less ability to survive. And All high level Spells consume too much MP, takes too long to cast and require alot of waiting. Manawall? At the sacrifice of our entire MP pool to tank dmg for how long?

This is the biggest turn off toward nukers, If it has no purpose in areas where its not forcibly needed, then people do compare facts such as:

(And yes this is DD VS Nuker analysis)

1. How much damage over time can the job contribute to the alliance?
2. How well can the job survive?
3. Does this job serve a purpose to what we are accomplishing vs other jobs?
4. Does the job require us to wait on them especially in zones where we are limited in time? (Time is a very important factor)
5. How fast is the job compared to others? Mages have spellcasting time/recast/MP pool VS DD who wear TP/Haste gear.

This is just a basic list of things but Feel free to add to what i say or debate on what I have written. But today most parties are set to favor DD over Nukers because of the things ive listed above.

Look at the history of all FINAL FANTASY games before the MMORPG era? Why did we love Blackmage? Because it was more powerful than all other jobs with awesome spells without such hardcore limitations and use.

Reasonable solution?
1. Higher level spells should be able to deal massive amounts of damage without consuming a good chunk of our MP pool.
2.We should be able to be more powerful than DD instantly way above DD's Weaponskill since strategy is the key to Nuking due to Enmity. And because DD have the ability to Damage better over time. (Example: Meteor Cost 418 MP and barely does what 3K damage if you solo cast?)
3. MP,Emnity,Recast,Cast Time already limits us on time factor which is why strategy is important for the safety of the party and is more than enough reason to give us more power,lower the amount of enmity higher level spells give toward enemies so we can cast more than 1 spells without getting face buried into the ground, less limitation, better MP or the ability to cast more than 5 Spells before depleting our entire MP Pool.

Why?

Because at level 99 we are through with the EXP leveling phase and deserve to enjoy the spells we have paid for especially if we invested millions and millions of gil for just 1 spell, paid our dues, maxed our skills and worked hard to earn the high end gears that improve our damage. Making adjustments to lower level tiers for less MP and higher damage is not making proper adjustments or fixes for level 99. These small adjustments may help us cast more low level spells on lower level content to help us do more, solo better and get things done quicker but this really doesnt contribute much to us playing higher level content where we need to kill fast due to survival issues.

Even with the power of atmas, Cruor buffs, in Abyssea BLM STILL depletes MP too fast. Yet the refresh rate from MM Atma gives us a reasonable amount of time to recover our MP pool that allow us more freedom and comfort to do more things. Why can't we have this freedom beyond Abyssea? If it was really THAT overpowered it wouldn't have existed to begin with. Yet Adoulin/Delve content is either similar level or higher than Abbysea. Level 99 should not have such hardcore limitations as if we were back at the level 75 era.

Sadly this update will only give more people reason to favor Scholar.

Chimerawizard

06-20-2013, 05:24 AM

stuff
I agree 100%.

It's no small issue. Community reps, please make this known to the dev team.
I really think the formula determining magic DMG is wrong.

This is a fantasy game; I have read many a fantasy book. What happens if a novice magician were to try to attack his master with a spell?
The master dispels the incomming spell like an annoying gnat.
What happens when a master does the prep work and goes all out?
A dragon is brought to its knees.

How would that convert into a dmg equation? It's gotta have some stat between the caster and the target play a huge impact on DMG. dSTAT < 0 = pesky gnat. dSTAT = lots = dragon pwnage.

Intelligence seems like a good thing to compare for this result.
things like
x*dINT/[x+dINT] (large x value); x^dINT (low x value); dINT^x (low x value)
All have potential to make the above dSTAT functions true.

This will give people reason to think about mage DMG.

As far as I know, BLM has been useless since the release of abyssea for everything other than proc/stun ****.

Daemon

06-20-2013, 10:33 AM

After watching videos of BLM on FF14.... I saw a guy with 3,411 MP, HP 2,000.... Refresh is so fast compared to us in FF11, and he is playing solo.... What we have been asking the devs to fix for years seems like they got it right in FF14.

The more we get ignored, the more reason its getting to switch over to the new game than stay here.

Motenten

06-20-2013, 05:50 PM

Yes I know cycling through different tier IV and III spells can help you conserve mp, but my post was not about that. I just took only Ice and Thunder IV as an example that if you casted each of those spells 5 times at level 99 with the new MP cost adjustment, how much MP we are using?

Which my concern is Tier IV spells are not the highest Tier spells in game yet the cost of these spells are being adjusted to use more MP than now in the future update..

I used Tier IV because you used Tier IV. For MP efficiency, Tier V is very close to Tier IV. With a high-end gear set, damage per MP looks like:

Stone IV: 26.2
Stone V: 26.5

Thunder IV: 14.8
Thunder V: 14.0

Your issue of how much damage is done with a given MP pool will look pretty much the same whether you use T4 or T5 nukes. The real efficiency difference, though, is choosing Thunder/Ice vs Stone/Water, which was part of the entire point of these changes to magic damage -- making it so that there's a -reason- to use any given element of nuke.

Dealing more damage to a monster with a spell in a party situation will only give you more enmity, which could put the entire party at risk right? therefore BLM and other nukers will have absolutely no choice but to use lower tier spells regardless right?

Question 1: Yes. Question 2: No. There are lots of variables which affect whether the blm will pull hate, so there is no absolute answer, there. Personally, I'd use lower tier spells for tactical reasons -- primarily MP efficiency, but also to conserve MP while building up higher tiers of Cumulative Damage effects so that I can use higher damage nukes with the higher cumulative bonus.

But when you are soloing, and you need to kill a monster fast, and Tier 4 spell is not exactly the best spell we have but one of the higher decent spells we have that we use on a daily basis gets an mp raise. Whether you deal 1k or 10k damage, it doesnt change the fact that you still have to sit the same amount of time to recover mp.

You're conflating two different arguments, there. It's difficult to respond to because there's no logical connection between the two points. The time you have to rest is dependent only on the MP spent, not the damage done, yes. However if you deal 1k or 10k damage, presumably there must also be a difference in the amount of MP spent. Therefore your conclusion has no relation to the antecedant.

You're also indicating a vast gulf in difference in damage done vs MP spent, which does not appear to be the case at all. Between tiers 4 and 5, there is almost no difference. Between Thunder and Stone, there's generally a 2:1 difference, not a 10:1 difference.

But when you are playing in Adoulin, we dont have time to be casting these lower tier spells on monsters when dealing with something that can kill you in 3-4 hits.....

Only applicable when soloing.

As far as damage output over time and MP recovery, we can look at that a bit more carefully.

For melee, you generally have 4 tiers of damage output (this is using standard Delve weapons, and in the ideal environment, not counting time between mobs): 250 DPS when unbuffed, 350 DPS when buffed and supported by a mage, 600 DPS when supported by brd+mage, and 900 DPS when supported by multiple brds (or Daur brd), cor and mage. Those are -very- rough numbers, and vary a great deal depending on target, gear, etc.

Using my spreadsheet, a blm with top-end gear could cycle through all the T5 spells (to avoid recast, so as to maximize DPS) for about 700 DPS over the course of 30 seconds (assuming no resists, since I don't have that calculated in yet). That would consume about 1200 MP, or roughly their entire MP pool.

If you continuously cast T2 nukes (ie: pick a single element and cast as often as recast allows), or T2 ga nukes (single mob target), you could do 280-300 DPS. MP efficiency for the Stone line would be 22 for ga2, 33 for T2, or 44 for ga1 (250 DPS). MP cost per cast would be 21 (ga1), 32 (T2), or 83 (ga2) for the Stone line. Reuse time would be 4 seconds for T2 and ga1, and 7 seconds for ga2.

Assuming self-supplied refresh and 6/tick in idle gear refresh, that's a recovery of 12 MP per spell for ga1 and T2, and 21 for ga2. With an MP pool of 1000, that would allow continuous casting for roughly 9 minutes (ga1), 4 minutes (T2), or 1.5 minutes (ga2). Given a 10 minute Convert timer, Stonega spam for ~250 DPS is maintainable nearly perpetually, and corresponds to what an unbuffed melee can manage.

If you can get an outside rdm and brd (GHorn lvl 95) buffing you (ie: party/alliance situation), that's 26/tick refresh. Stone III + Water III (total avg MP cost of 125, reuse cycle time for both spells together is 9.5 seconds) would be 3,442 damage for 360 DPS (melee tier 2). 1.5 seconds is used for casting them, leaving 8 seconds idle time, recovering 69 MP per cast cycle. That could be maintained for a little under 3 minutes (or 6 minutes if you burned Convert).

Note that this also ignores being able to use Mana Wall for your most powerful nuke every 10 minutes, which would raise net DPS a fair bit for scenarios where you're otherwise MP-limited.

Top-end hMP set is somewhere around +80. Base Clear Mind for blm is 30, with +3 per additional tick. Along with the 21/tick outside refreshes, it would take 60 seconds to recover ~1050 MP. That reduces effective long-term DPS by 12-25% (depending on the scenario you're working towards).

Still, at best you're looking at tier 2 DD capability for moderate-length fights (5-8 minute range), or a quick burst of ~700 DPS that you can do for 30 seconds every 100 (MP pool of 1200, which would take 70+ seconds to recover, giving an average DPS of 210).

With a slight variation, if you're well-prepared (and assuming you're the only blm, for the purposes of cumulative damage effect), you can do something like:

Stoneja (gain cumulative effect 1)
Stone III
Stone II
Stonega
Stonega II
Stone III
Stone II
Stonega
Stonega II
@ 30 seconds:
Stoneja (gain cumulative effect 2)
Stone V
Quake II
Stone IV
Stonega III

Total damage: 33,412.3
Total time: ~48 seconds
MP spent: 1200, 200 of which is assumed recovered from refresh sources
DPS: 696 (average with recovery time: 310)

This can also be continued using Convert, along with the AF3+2 pants enhancement on Cumulative Effect durations, allowing a third tier of CE bonus and another entire MP pool. An additional blm further increases both of their damage through additional cumulative damage tiers. Allowing for the outside refreshes, total damage output can be quite good.

The main problem is that you can't maintain it for very long. You need 6 DDs all putting out 450 DPS over 8 minutes to kill Tojil. Two blms could conceivably keep pace with them, but only for a minute or two. As you say, if 40%-60% of your time is spent resting, you're not very effective as a DD.

Further, Cor buffs are horribly anemic for nukers. Wizard's Roll, the equivalent of melees' Chaos Roll, maxes out at 16 MAB with a blm in party, which is maybe 8% damage. Chaos Roll maxes out at +40% attack with a drk in party, which is +32% damage if also using Berserk (and not capping attack).

An 11 cor roll should give far more than could be gained with a single piece of gear. Chaos Roll gives 31% attack, which no piece of gear can even come close to comparing to. Wizard's Roll gives 12 MAB, which is beaten by numerous pieces of gear. Same with Warlock's Roll, and probably Scholar's Roll. The Geo buffs and debuffs for magic accuracy/evasion are massive. Cor mage rolls should be adjusted to be comparable.

+50 MAB and +50% Conserve MP would still only be a 15%-20% increase in damage, with a bit more viability for long-term sustainability.

I'd also suggest a -2 seconds per tier of Clear Mind applied to the time until the first healing tick hits. Having to wait 20 seconds for the first healing tick is just obnoxious.

Demon6324236

06-20-2013, 06:43 PM

You're conflating two different arguments, there. It's difficult to respond to because there's no logical connection between the two points. The time you have to rest is dependent only on the MP spent, not the damage done, yes.I just want to point out, that is mostly true, but it can be false. You have to remember this body does exist and some people use it, even with lower damage, to keep MP higher.

http://www.bg-wiki.com/images/a/a2/Seidr_Cotehardie_description.png

I honestly have no idea how good it truly is outside of Abyssea where your already overpowered anyways. If someone could give me an accurate assessment of its use post adjustment that would be great.

Daemon

06-20-2013, 07:57 PM

Using my spreadsheet, a blm with top-end gear could cycle through all the T5 spells (to avoid recast, so as to maximize DPS) for about 700 DPS over the course of 30 seconds (assuming no resists, since I don't have that calculated in yet). That would consume about 1200 MP, or roughly their entire MP pool.

Hey Thanks for the taking the time to reply, Sorry i will go over the info again much more thoroughly and reply according to each section later when i have time however. Just observing this one section:

Are you basing all of your facts with the new adjustment and mp cost? Because:

Thunder V is 306MP
Ice V is 272 MP
Fire V is 240MP
Wind V is 210 MP
Water is 182 MP
Earth V is 156 MP

Added to a total 1,366 MP if you cycle through all Tier V spells. When you are tight on MP 166 is a lot compared to the 1,200 estimate you gave.

Where as before the adjustment (which is how we have it now) cost of these spells are:

Thunder 171
Ice V 164
Fire V 157
Wind V 150
Water V 144
Earth V 138

Total of MP right now before the new adjustment would be 926 MP.

Thats a 442 MP difference... of how much we will be using after the new update.

To me that only means casting less T5 spells for the sake of MP or sitting more often just so we can enjoy casting these spells we paid for. Personally I paid 8 mil for Thunder V...

My concern is MP cost after the new update...

By extending the fight from 1 minute to 10 minutes and cycling through tier 1-3 spells could accomplish the goal of similar damage(or more) compared to the damage you have delt during the minute time span of casting higher T4&5 spells yes. But do we have time to fight monsters way above our level solo in areas such as Adoulin? Especially when spells such as Sleep / Bind can build resistance making it quite difficult to take your time fighting a monster for the sake of conserving MP?

This example is not meant to be a real calculation, only an example of the fact that I understand extending the fight can help you conserve mp using lower tier spells by dealing small increments of damage over time. But this only works well in areas where mobs pose no risk in killing you easily with 2-3 hits.

Uratino

06-21-2013, 01:01 AM

Hey Thanks for the taking the time to reply, Sorry i will go over the info again much more thoroughly and reply according to each section later when i have time however. Just observing this one section:

Are you basing all of your facts with the new adjustment and mp cost? Because:

Thunder V is 306MP
Ice V is 272 MP
Fire V is 240MP
Wind V is 210 MP
Water is 182 MP
Earth V is 156 MP

Added to a total 1,366 MP if you cycle through all Tier V spells. When you are tight on MP 166 is a lot compared to the 1,200 estimate you gave.

Where as before the adjustment (which is how we have it now) cost of these spells are:

Thunder 171
Ice V 164
Fire V 157
Wind V 150
Water V 144
Earth V 138

Total of MP right now before the new adjustment would be 926 MP.

Thats a 442 MP difference... of how much we will be using after the new update.

To me that only means casting less T5 spells for the sake of MP or sitting more often just so we can enjoy casting these spells we paid for. Personally I paid 8 mil for Thunder V...

My concern is MP cost after the new update...

By extending the fight from 1 minute to 10 minutes and cycling through tier 1-3 spells could accomplish the goal of similar damage(or more) compared to the damage you have delt during the minute time span of casting higher T4&5 spells yes. But do we have time to fight monsters way above our level solo in areas such as Adoulin? Especially when spells such as Sleep / Bind can build resistance making it quite difficult to take your time fighting a monster for the sake of conserving MP?

This example is not meant to be a real calculation, only an example of the fact that I understand extending the fight can help you conserve mp using lower tier spells by dealing small increments of damage over time. But this only works well in areas where mobs pose no risk in killing you easily with 2-3 hits.
Just pointing this out, but you accidentally used the Tier IV MP amounts for the 'pre-update' Tier V.

So, the pre-adjustment totals for Tier V are thus:

Thunder V 294
Ice V 282
Fire V 270
Wind V 255
Water V 239
Earth V 222

Total MP cost 1562

Difference in Pre-Adjustment vs Post-Adjustment is 196 with Post-Adjustment having the lower total cost.

Daemon

06-21-2013, 01:45 AM

Just pointing this out, but you accidentally used the Tier IV MP amounts for the 'pre-update' Tier V.

So, the pre-adjustment totals for Tier V are thus:

Thunder V 294
Ice V 282
Fire V 270
Wind V 255
Water V 239
Earth V 222

Total MP cost 1562

Difference in Pre-Adjustment vs Post-Adjustment is 196 with Post-Adjustment having the lower total cost.

Apologies, I did make a mistake and thanks for pointing this out. This update will Lower the over cost on some of the Tier V and IV spells although with the sacrifice of raising Thunder and Ice spells. which is the reason why i made my first post comparing the 2 spells.

Motenten

06-21-2013, 01:49 AM

Are you basing all of your facts with the new adjustment and mp cost?

Yes, however I'm also accounting for Conserve MP. For blm it starts at 28%, plus whatever was in the gear set I used (which was 8%).

Where as before the adjustment (which is how we have it now) cost of these spells are:
...

Uratino already pointed out the error here. For T5s, the only spell with any increase in MP cost is Thunder V, which goes up just 12 points.

But do we have time to fight monsters way above our level solo in areas such as Adoulin? Especially when spells such as Sleep / Bind can build resistance making it quite difficult to take your time fighting a monster for the sake of conserving MP?

This example is not meant to be a real calculation, only an example of the fact that I understand extending the fight can help you conserve mp using lower tier spells by dealing small increments of damage over time. But this only works well in areas where mobs pose no risk in killing you easily with 2-3 hits.

I would say the main problem is insisting that you be able to manage these fights solo on mobs that you can't sleep/break/bind/gravity. If the mob can kill you in 2-3 hits, that means it's doing 400+ damage per hit. There is no DD of any sort that can survive that and kill the mob solo without Utsusemi (unless you can kill it with a single skillchain as sam using Seigan/Third Eye), and even then the only jobs I would bank on being able to survive it would be rdm/nin or nin/dnc (and possibly dnc/nin).

In the case of rdm/nin, these changes help them since it's all about MP efficiency, and being able to outlast the mob.

Note that I do agree that more adjustments are needed for nuking DDs; I just think the arguments you're making are problematic, and don't really serve to illustrate the real issues.

Motenten

06-21-2013, 02:05 AM

I just want to point out, that is mostly true, but it can be false. You have to remember this body does exist and some people use it, even with lower damage, to keep MP higher.

http://www.bg-wiki.com/images/a/a2/Seidr_Cotehardie_description.png

I honestly have no idea how good it truly is outside of Abyssea where your[sic] already overpowered anyways. If someone could give me an accurate assessment of its use post adjustment that would be great.

For MP efficiency, it's a great piece. A few damage per MP numbers (usual caveats about gear/target/etc):

Thunder V w/rank 15 Bokwus Robe: 14.0
Thunder V w/Seidr: 16.0

Stone V w/rank 15 Bokwus Robe: 26.5
Stone V w/Seidr: 41.6

Stone III w/rank 15 Bokwus Robe: 29.7
Stone III w/Seidr: 51.3

Stonega w/rank 15 Bokwus Robe: 44.4
Stonega w/Seidr: 149.9

Stone (1): 0 MP cost with Seidr

Essentially, for the Thunder end of the scale, it's a small but nice boost. For the Stone end of the scale, it's a massive efficiency boost.

Average cost of Stonega would be 5.5; allow one idle refresh tick per cast, and you can spam it indefinitely, at about 800 damage per with 4 second reuse delays. Add Refresh II from a rdm, and you can cast Stone III forever, at about 1450 per nuke on a 10 second reuse timer. Refresh II would also support using both together, taking about 18 minutes to deplete a 1000 MP mana pool (thus easily maintainable with Convert), and giving a theoretical ~350 DPS.

Daemon

06-21-2013, 02:19 AM

Yes, however I'm also accounting for Conserve MP. For blm it starts at 28%, plus whatever was in the gear set I used (which was 8%).

Uratino already pointed out the error here. For T5s, the only spell with any increase in MP cost is Thunder V, which goes up just 12 points.

I would say the main problem is insisting that you be able to manage these fights solo on mobs that you can't sleep/break/bind/gravity. If the mob can kill you in 2-3 hits, that means it's doing 400+ damage per hit. There is no DD of any sort that can survive that and kill the mob solo without Utsusemi (unless you can kill it with a single skillchain as sam using Seigan/Third Eye), and even then the only jobs I would bank on being able to survive it would be rdm/nin or nin/dnc (and possibly dnc/nin).

In the case of rdm/nin, these changes help them since it's all about MP efficiency, and being able to outlast the mob.

Note that I do agree that more adjustments are needed for nuking DDs; I just think the arguments you're making are problematic, and don't really serve to illustrate the real issues.

Gear options are not the same when it comes to comparing with Mages and DD. Raising the cost of Thunder and Ice, Of course people are going to use these spells often as we have raised our merit points into these elements.

Thunder V
Thunder IV Ice IV

Both these spells are being increased in MP, however there are other spells that have been increased in points too.

Ever since Adoulin was released, Soloing is not impossible, but difficult being that MP pool limits us. Also a lot of my points in earlier post are about the difference between DD VS BLM.

You guys already give us limitations with cast/recast/mp pool/mp cost/mp recovery time VS DD who only has 100% TP to focus on and compared to our Refresh VS their Regain. The difference is, we have to wait 100+200 MP for 1 spell, they have to wait 100% for TP.

Mages have a hard time as it is for survival, and waiting for so long to recover MP without depending on other jobs to help us is problematic. As someone said earlier they would like to play the job without having to carry elixers.

My original complaint is about MP issue and playing in higher areas as a level 99 job solo. Could u please tell me what the real issue is then if mine does not serve to illustrate the real issues here?

I do admit that I see difference in MP cost through cycling different tier spells. And you guys are doing a great job by giving us some attention to begin with.

When I first saw the mp cost changed for Ice & Thunder 4 my reaction turned into concern being that I play RDM/NIN. The 2 spells Ice & Thunder I use often being that I did max out all merits into these 2 elements.

It seems what you have raised into these 2 spells are being made up for with the other elements in cost.

Demon6324236

06-21-2013, 02:37 AM

For MP efficiency, it's a great piece. A few damage per MP numbers (usual caveats about gear/target/etc):

Thunder V w/rank 15 Bokwus Robe: 14.0
Thunder V w/Seidr: 16.0

Stone V w/rank 15 Bokwus Robe: 26.5
Stone V w/Seidr: 41.6

Stone III w/rank 15 Bokwus Robe: 29.7
Stone III w/Seidr: 51.3

Stonega w/rank 15 Bokwus Robe: 44.4
Stonega w/Seidr: 149.9

Stone (1): 0 MP cost with Seidr

Essentially, for the Thunder end of the scale, it's a small but nice boost. For the Stone end of the scale, it's a massive efficiency boost.

Average cost of Stonega would be 5.5; allow one idle refresh tick per cast, and you can spam it indefinitely, at about 800 damage per with 4 second reuse delays. Add Refresh II from a rdm, and you can cast Stone III forever, at about 1450 per nuke on a 10 second reuse timer. Refresh II would also support using both together, taking about 18 minutes to deplete a 1000 MP mana pool (thus easily maintainable with Convert), and giving a theoretical ~350 DPS.So its going to be really nice for nuking, good to know, saves me a ton of Plasm on that body! :D

Motenten

06-21-2013, 04:45 AM

DD has higher Defense + HP and optional ability to wear higher -pdt gear compared to blackmage or any mage so to say that no DD of any sort can not survive without utsusemi in such cases is hard to compare the difference between mages and dd being that gear options are not the same.

A rather aggressive run-on sentence, there.

PDT for Blm: Earth Staff, Twilight Torque, Goliard Trews, 2x Dark Rings, Umbra Cape, Plumb Boots: 51% PDT, capped at 50%, same as the best any other DD can get. Plus the advantage that you can use your max PDT set in between casts, while it's impractical for melee to use max PDT sets only in between melee swings.

Raising the cost of Thunder and Ice, Of course people are going to use these spells often as we have raised our merit points into these elements.

Then perhaps you'd consider readjusting your merits to account for the new options. Seidr plus Earth Potency merits would give about 2.5 times the MP efficiency as Thunder spells (3x if it's vs Thunder using Bokwus rank 15), not even counting the extreme examples of first tier Stone or Stonega.

.. without depending on other jobs to help us ..

The only way to get the truly ridiculous potential damage output for melees is with the help of others -- whm, brd, cor, geo, drg, smn, sch, etc. To see what potential any nuking job can reach, it must be considered within the framework of help from others. Solo play for -any- job is a mix of compromises and applying some niche trick the job has. If your niche trick doesn't work (eg: Utsusemi vs Iron Giants), then soloing a difficult target won't be practical.

Very little about this game is balanced around solo play. At best, certain limitations are put in place to keep solo play from becoming too dominant. Your complaints are presented as if they were universal issues, but are only argued from the viewpoint of a soloist. Yes, soloing a lot of the new mobs is difficult. Have you tried soloing any of those mobs as a melee? It's not very easy there, either.

You also seem overly-focused on Thunder-class nukes. I have Thunder V beating Stone V in damage by a mere 4.5%, whereas it costs twice as much MP. You use Thunder spells if you have MP to burn, if you need only the absolute most powerful nuke available, or if you need to nuke a specific weakness. You don't use it for long-term, total damage output.

This is in direct conflict with years of use, where Thunder spells were ~40% more powerful than the Stone line while costing only ~30% more MP, and it's not surprising that many people won't "get it" after the update. You need to completely revamp your approach before you can really assess where the real weaknesses of the new system may be.

Motenten

06-21-2013, 06:31 AM

Note: I may have found an error in my spreadsheet calculations. Am finishing a conversion to compare old formulas with new formulas, and will revisit any assertions I've made in this thread if the results change.

Mirage

06-21-2013, 07:28 AM

Due to the fact that these adjustments will only be applied to player characters and not to monsters, the elemental magic adjustments will not be applied to spirits because the magic they use is treated as a monster type of magic.
I'm sorry, but so what?

You can still change it for spirits. Change their magic to player-type instead if it's impossible otherwise. You're not seriously worried that SMN would outnuke any real mage job, are you?

Daemon

06-21-2013, 08:09 AM

A rather aggressive run-on sentence, there.

PDT for Blm: Earth Staff, Twilight Torque, Goliard Trews, 2x Dark Rings, Umbra Cape, Plumb Boots: 51% PDT, capped at 50%, same as the best any other DD can get. Plus the advantage that you can use your max PDT set in between casts, while it's impractical for melee to use max PDT sets only in between melee swings.

Yes I know all jobs can cap PDT at 50%. Even some gear options such as Lefay Brias, or pants quested from A shantotto can aug 4% -pdt. There is a difference between the amount of DEF Melee and gear provides and the amount of HP a job has.

With the sacrifice of fastcast, MAB gear, only time to use -pdt set is when you are being targeted. So it is also impractical for mages to wear these in between casting.

Then perhaps you'd consider readjusting your merits to account for the new options. Seidr plus Earth Potency merits would give about 2.5 times the MP efficiency as Thunder spells (3x if it's vs Thunder using Bokwus rank 15), not even counting the extreme examples of first tier Stone or Stonega.

So this is the best advice? Re-adjust merits?

The only way to get the truly ridiculous potential damage output for melees is with the help of others -- whm, brd, cor, geo, drg, smn, sch, etc. To see what potential any nuking job can reach, it must be considered within the framework of help from others. Solo play for -any- job is a mix of compromises and applying some niche trick the job has. If your niche trick doesn't work (eg: Utsusemi vs Iron Giants), then soloing a difficult target won't be practical.

Very little about this game is balanced around solo play. At best, certain limitations are put in place to keep solo play from becoming too dominant. Your complaints are presented as if they were universal issues, but are only argued from the viewpoint of a soloist. Yes, soloing a lot of the new mobs is difficult. Have you tried soloing any of those mobs as a melee? It's not very easy there, either.

But why does it have to like this? I can understand preventing us from soloing Bosses, but regular monsters?

I don't know about other Melee jobs because most of the ones I play are mage however I have solod well on beastmaster in adoulin.

You also seem overly-focused on Thunder-class nukes. I have Thunder V beating Stone V in damage by a mere 4.5%, whereas it costs twice as much MP. You use Thunder spells if you have MP to burn, if you need only the absolute most powerful nuke available, or if you need to nuke a specific weakness. You don't use it for long-term, total damage output.

This is in direct conflict with years of use, where Thunder spells were ~40% more powerful than the Stone line while costing only ~30% more MP, and it's not surprising that many people won't "get it" after the update. You need to completely revamp your approach before you can really assess where the real weaknesses of the new system may be.

I agree I need to wait and test out how the new system will work before pointing out any weaknesses. My curiosity is that while its easy to say use Stone spells or any other element. It is very difficult to know how resistance of those elements will play out. Thank you and I don't want to waste anymore of your time.

Motenten

06-21-2013, 09:51 AM

Comparative review of the magic systems, now that I have the current magic system implemented in my spreadsheet, and the bugs fixed.

Dmg/MP numbers, identical gear sets. No Blm potency merits; no Seidr body.

Current magic system:

Tier Stone Water Air Fire Ice Thunder
I 15.8 17.3 17.3 15.1 14.2 13.6
II 13.8 12.9 12.2 11.6 11.2 10.9
III 13.2 13.3 13.2 13.3 13.2 13.0
IV 14.2 14.3 14.4 14.4 14.5 14.6
V 13.0 12.8 12.8 12.7 12.7 12.7

New magic system:

Tier Stone Water Air Fire Ice Thunder
I 139.9 56.4 35.7 27.0 21.8 18.4
II 32.9 27.9 23.9 20.5 18.4 16.4
III 29.0 25.2 21.8 19.4 17.3 15.7
IV 25.6 22.6 20.1 17.9 16.2 14.6
V 26.0 22.4 19.6 17.3 15.4 13.8

As we can see, in the existing system, the dmg/mp ratio is pretty flat across the board. There's a few spells that are slightly more or less efficient, but hardly any difference of note. The logical conclusion, then, is to use spells that give you the most damage in the least amount of time, since you'll be spending the same amount of MP either way. Thus: everyone uses the most powerful nuke possible, Thunder V (or Blizzard V on anything that resists Thunder).

In the new system, however, there's a massive shift in MP efficiency as you crawl across damage tiers and elemental tiers. That means that for longevity and overall DPS you'll shift heavily towards the Stone end of the scale, and possibly down to lower damage tiers as well (though the differences there aren't as extreme until you reach T2 or T1).

But are you trading in power for that efficiency? Well, let's look at the base damage numbers.

Current magic system:

Tier Stone Water Air Fire Ice Thunder
I 125.3 199.5 277.7 324.8 380.9 451.0
II 529.2 590.3 643.5 704.6 771.7 841.9
III 1090.5 1169.6 1256.8 1347.0 1423.2 1499.4
IV 1759.9 1847.1 1939.3 2035.6 2138.8 2245.0
V 2589.8 2754.2 2929.5 3070.9 3205.2 3342.5

New magic system:

Tier Stone Water Air Fire Ice Thunder
I 484.1 498.1 513.2 529.2 545.2 558.3
II 1059.4 1074.4 1090.5 1104.5 1119.5 1135.6
III 1665.7 1696.8 1725.9 1757.0 1787.0 1818.1
IV 2574.7 2619.8 2666.9 2711.1 2756.2 2801.3
V 3636.1 3665.2 3697.2 3726.3 3757.4 3786.5

No, you're not trading in power. You're gaining quite a bit of power, actually, across the board. T5s gain 12% to 40%; T4s gain 25% to 45%; and the gains continue to go up for lower tiers.

In addition, there's the increase in how quickly you can cast a given spell, both in cast time reduction and recast reduction for most spells. DPS for repeatedly casting each spell:

Current magic system:

Tier Stone Water Air Fire Ice Thunder
I 27.8 44.3 50.5 50.0 50.8 53.1
II 55.7 56.2 61.3 61.3 61.7 62.4
III 75.2 75.5 76.2 81.6 81.3 81.0
IV 90.3 90.1 90.2 90.5 91.0 95.5
V 105.7 108.0 110.5 111.7 112.5 113.3

New magic system:

Tier Stone Water Air Fire Ice Thunder
I 134.5 138.4 142.5 147.0 151.4 155.1
II 278.8 282.7 287.0 290.6 294.6 298.8
III 175.3 178.6 181.7 184.9 188.1 191.4
IV 132.0 134.3 136.8 139.0 141.3 143.7
V 127.6 128.6 129.7 130.7 131.8 132.9

The gain on T5s is fairly low, and is mostly attributable to the higher raw damage of the spells. The lower tiers, however, and the T2 line in particular (because its recast time matches the forced time you have to wait before you can cast another spell anyway), have vastly improved the rate that you can do damage.

I won't go into the DPS per tier, as that gets complicated with spell choice and interleaving time slots and such. T2s gain the least, there, however, since there's no 'spare' time between spells that's being wasted.

So how much longevity do you have? That depends on your situational tactics. If you were getting good outside refreshes (Refresh II + Ballads), you could spam Stone II almost forever. For a base damage of around 1000 per nuke, that's pretty respectable, generating a nice, steady stream of damage. It's also damage that can be done at range, which still has some advantages. It becomes your "melee hit" nuke -- basic, repeatable damage that you can keep doing forever.

However it does put an upper cap on your long-term DPS of about 300. Respectable, but not amazing. Going above 300 requires compromises. You can cast a number of higher-damage nukes (including boosting them with -ja spells) in rapid succession for very high short-term DPS, but will quickly run out of MP. You can include magic bursts for occasional boosts in damage (close to +50%), which will also be much easier to achieve with higher tier nukes due to the very low cast times. [eg: stone II, stone II, stone II, skillchain? quick stone V, stone II, stone II, etc] Also, Occult Acumen and Vidohunir/Shattersoul might actually come into play if blms move to a single staff for all nukes, such as Soothsayer (yes, unlikely, but the new staves actually make it feasible rather than laughable).

However any other significant improvements will almost certainly have to come from revamping the buffs that can be had (primarily cor rolls, but there are others that can potentially apply).

Chimerawizard

06-21-2013, 12:43 PM

However it does put an upper cap on your long-term DPS of about 300. Respectable, but not amazing.

You mentioned
For melee, you generally have 4 tiers of damage output (this is using standard Delve weapons, and in the ideal environment, not counting time between mobs): 250 DPS when unbuffed, 350 DPS when buffed and supported by a mage, 600 DPS when supported by brd+mage, and 900 DPS when supported by multiple brds (or Daur brd), cor and mage. (I can't imagine even with the mob enfeebled with -INT & -MdB + INT from BRD, INT from WHM & COR rolls a BLM coming close)

If true & knowing you it is: before this is implemented, they need to do another update and round of testing to elemental magic.

Either make buffs more potent to compensate for the difference, or change the formula again so a well geared mage with food and buffs reaches similar results with support.

Motenten

06-21-2013, 02:01 PM

Basically, 300 is between the 250 (unbuffed) and 350 (lightly buffed) range for melees, which is appropriate since it only requires light buffing (Refresh II). Melees can only get to ridiculous heights beyond that with significant buffs (Marches, Chaos Roll, Angon/Dia/Geo def down, etc). Each of those buffs individually is pretty substantial, and they compound on each other.

Meanwhile, buffs for mages are like food for mages. Whee, +10 MAB. Yay +10 M.Acc. Nice, food with +6 Int. Essentially, magic damage is static, while melee damage has tons of room for growth.

If you had a cor roll with +50 MAB, it would gain you maybe 22% damage per nuke, which is still less than you'd get from Chaos Roll for melee. Maybe change it to an affinity effect, like magian staves -- +30% Affinity, or similar. Same with magic accuracy. Right now the only way to get past massive magic resistance is with a geo; cor rolls barely do anything. Same for Conserve MP (though we don't have tested values for it, I'm guessing it's just as bad as the others).

Brd songs basically have one purpose for nukers: Ballad. Maybe a March tossed in for good measure. But there's really nothing to enhance on that front; MP recovery is already extremely high. We just need a reasonable means of bringing spell costs down closer to the MP recovery rate (ie: Scholar's Roll -- more Conserve MP).

After that are the niche buffs/debuffs: Vidohunir/Shattersoul each give -10 MDB, the equivalent of a melee's Dia II. Indi-Malaise if -12 MDB. Where's Angon for mages? Reduced magical evasion is likewise pretty minimal: ninjutsu, Death Blossom, tier 2 enspells, threnodies and Indi-Torpor, and I think several of them don't stack.

Essentially, as things stand right now, I don't see any problem with the magic damage formulas. The new version fixes a lot of issues, and sets things at a pretty decent level. The problem now is the horrible lack of support buffs and debuffs that can boost magic damage the way such buffs/debuffs enhance melee damage.

Zhronne

06-21-2013, 04:51 PM

The more we get ignored, the more reason its getting to switch over to the new game than stay here.
Looks like you only want to see the glass half full for FFXIV.
Which is good I suppose, there undoubtely is that half full glass of water that you talk about and I agree, it's there and I like it.

There also is the half empty part though, which you seem to have forgot.
No spell tiers, no elemental resistances/wheel, no full elements for BLM (they're split between CNJ and THM), no debuffs (Arcanist will change that, luckily), blah blah blah.

Teiei

06-22-2013, 10:38 AM

No spell tiers, no elemental resistances/wheel, no full elements for BLM (they're split between CNJ and THM), no debuffs (Arcanist will change that, luckily), blah blah blah.

Because BLMs in FFXI have always made use of their full list of elements... right?
Don't kid yourself, BLMs have only ever focused on using thunder/blizzard (unless the enemy was heavily resistant) because there has never been a reason to use anything else. There are almost no enemies in the game that actually take extra damage to a particular element.

Far as I can see the only major change to occur with this adjustment, in terms of spell selection, is that BLMs will spam stone/water instead of thunder/blizzard. So instead of actually balancing the elements they're only shifting the favored elements that everyone will flock towards. The balance of efficiency on spell elements will be extremely skewed in favor of earth and water.

I'd like it if you could spread the efficiency around a bit here; otherwise the result will be more of the same with a different element hording all the attention. Please consider the situation and give us some reason to spread our spell usage around to all the elements.

Daemon

06-25-2013, 01:13 PM

Because BLMs in FFXI have always made use of their full list of elements... right?
Don't kid yourself, BLMs have only ever focused on using thunder/blizzard (unless the enemy was heavily resistant) because there has never been a reason to use anything else. There are almost no enemies in the game that actually take extra damage to a particular element.

Far as I can see the only major change to occur with this adjustment, in terms of spell selection, is that BLMs will spam stone/water instead of thunder/blizzard. So instead of actually balancing the elements they're only shifting the favored elements that everyone will flock towards. The balance of efficiency on spell elements will be extremely skewed in favor of earth and water.

I'd like it if you could spread the efficiency around a bit here; otherwise the result will be more of the same with a different element hording all the attention. Please consider the situation and give us some reason to spread our spell usage around to all the elements.

I'm already removing all my merits off Ice and Thunder and putting them into Stone and water. Seems like efficiency overrules and Ice and Thunder is just going to cost too much MP. Although I must give Motenten credit for a wonderful job at the new spreadsheet.

Chimerawizard

06-27-2013, 11:20 AM

I have almost finished converting my potency merits over. Next is AM2.

It has given me use for the 30 merits I was just sitting on.

Camate

06-29-2013, 02:28 AM

Greetings!

These adjustments as well as a variety of other battle system related adjustments will take place in the July version update.

I've updated the Upcoming Version Update Announcement (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34837-Upcoming-Version-Update-Announcement?p=448142&viewfull=1#post448142) by adding a "Battle System" section, which outlines the adjustments that are scheduled to take place.

Mnejing

06-29-2013, 02:40 AM

There's an erroneous 7月 on the table.

Camate

06-29-2013, 02:53 AM

There's an erroneous 7月 on the table.

Fixed! Thanks :D

OniHavoc

06-29-2013, 09:50 AM

Before that though, in the next version update, we will be addressing the damage values of physical blue magic spells.

Prepare yourselves, Immortals! :)

I don't see this on the battle adjustments is it still happening?

Ophannus

06-30-2013, 04:14 AM

Blue Magic?

OniHavoc

06-30-2013, 07:03 AM

Lol sorry replied to the wrong thread.