Geomancer and Rune Fencer Artifact Equipment

[Camate]

As we mentioned previously, artifact armor for both geomancer and rune fencer will be implemented during the next version update.

The plan is to release this new equipment for level 99 and I would like to explain why the development team decided to do this.

First, one reason is that Adoulin content is for level 99+ and as such the monsters in those areas are extremely high level, and trying to acquire level 50-60 gear in these areas just doesn't make sense.

The other major reason is that most of you are looking forward to wearing these new artifact armors to do battle with the monsters that lurk in Adoulin areas, so the development team made the decision to implement them at the proper level in which they can be used.

Item-level wise we are planning for these to be at least level 105, but as it is still in development, it may change.

With that said, the quest difficulty will match the item-level, so you might feel a bit nostalgic having to organize parties to hunt down this gear, much like you all had to do back in the day for your first artifact sets.

[Alhanelem]

even though it kind of breaks with the rest of the AF, I do rather like this idea, making their storyline content relevant to the current game.

[Theytak]

I... SE... is... going against tradition...? What... what is this... who are you? what have you done with the dev team?

[Muse]

So does this mean that GEO and RUN will not get Relic or Empyrean armors? Meaning that AF is the only set that they get, or will Relic and Emp be added in later on as well?

[Unctgtg]

If the gear is as good as you say Camate I don't think we will have a problem doing this, but my only problem is what about Delve gear being better.

[Demon6324236]

First, one reason is that Adoulin content is for level 99+ and as such the monsters in those areas are extremely high level, and trying to acquire level 50-60 gear in these areas just doesn't make sense.Tell that to the TOAU & WOTG jobs, last I knew they had to run through areas infested with level 75ish Aggro mobs too, especially BLU, who had true sight Imps all over the place for their wonderful Staging points.

Not that I am against this, just... I find that reason funny since other jobs have had to do it before, guess its time for me and my GF to catch up on levels though, we intentionally left RUN & GEO at level 40 just because of the AF weapon/gear. Speaking of which...

Camate, any word on the AF Weapon itself? Will they have one like other jobs and if so what level should we be expecting?

[RalphTheGalka]

With that said, the quest difficulty will match the item-level, so you might feel a bit nostalgic having to organize parties to hunt down this gear, much like you all had to do back in the day for your first artifact sets.

I see that working well for about a week. Then it'll be like all other dead content in this game where it's "just bring 17 of your best friends along for no rewards." Then the inevitable adjustments, and the whining about them because people did it "the hard way" back in the day and "why not just get 17 other people to help you. don't you have any friends?" arguments.

[Kiakasha]

/yell GEO relic head fight do you need it? REMD Veteran SAM DRK WAR COR BRD WHM OR SCH

[Xantavia]

I have to say I am disappointed in this decision. I purposely left my RUN at level 50 in the hopes of being able to level into the AF armor as I progressed. Sadly, this just reinforces the idea of "don't bother with anything levels 1-98".

[Vivivivi]

While I'm alright with this news I was holding my RUN at level 58 in hopes AF1 would be appropriate for that level. I was also hoping the stats might be % based so they'd scale with the job as the level went up. Having said all that, the reality is that 1 or 2 Abyssea parties would make that gear irrelevant, and for that I'm glad with the decision to make them relevant at level 99.

[Fredjan]

Given the *entire* content in Adoulin is based off level 99 and item stats are based off "content level", I'm not surprised in the least by this. I actually welcome it, it makes more sense to me, given the entire equipment design logic behind Adoulin. Also means the gear will be more useful, which is always a plus.

Relic/Empyrean armor could very well exist too later on but obviously with higher item levels. Level 99 requirement means nothing when all the Adoulin gear is based off content levels instead.

[sweetidealism]

I have mixed feelings on this. I hope GEO and RUN will still get relic and empyrean armor, as they both seem as though they would benefit greatly from a variety of gear tailored specifically to them. That said, I am glad to hear that the artifact gear will be relevant.

[Merton9999]

Boo. I understand the reason behind the decision, but my head and heart haven't been in the game since about a month after Adoulin release. The content just isn't fun for me. I was looking forward to coming back to gather up some sets of artifact gear, with little difficulty in doing so, just for old times sake and to actually look like the GEO I had been anticipating for months. It didn't bother me at all that the first set would be macro pieces. Unfortunately, organizing parties to get the first set of job-specific gear just isn't appealing to me at all. I was excited about GEO for a while but this ends it for me personally. Oh well, the rest of you enjoy your artifact hunting parties!

[Makenshi]

I like this idea.

Anyone know when the next update is meant to be?

[Zhronne]

Does this mean that RUN and GEO won't get Relic armor and Empyreal armor?

[Zhronne]

I understand the reasons with this choice, but I can't say I'm happy.
Level 50-60 AF (upgradable to level lv74 +1 and maybe lv99 +2) would have been much more streamlined with the currently existing content.

But it's clear from the release of SoA that the new direction the dev team is goign doesn't really care for streamlining content but just offering tiers of new content every X months, same model as WoW and majority of other MMOs.
Which is not a bad model at all of course, it's just not what I expect from FFXI.

[Arek]

I'm glad, as a RUN99 that AF wil be targeted 99 for Adoulin content.

In those FFXI days, it just makes sense. there is plenty of choice before 99 and it's "just" a leveling part. And of course, we'll still have Quest Stories for those 2 jobs.

Also, for AF weapon, well you got it at level 1. :P

There is a Great Sword RUN only at level 99 though, crafted.

[Duelle]

even though it kind of breaks with the rest of the AF, I do rather like this idea, making their storyline content relevant to the current game.That's not something to celebrate. Seeing that even "simple" quests like the one for the Reive unity KI are close to impossible to complete in a small group, I shudder to think what the req's for GEO and RUN AF will be.

[tharpy]

Every other job in the game has unique gear throughout its life. Thus ensuring the player has something accessible and useful to wear during a given level option. By making the GEO/RUN AF 99 immediately you're saying you don't really care about GEO/RUN until they hit 99. Last i checked while the area may be made for 99 you still have to actually level the jobs.

AF: 42-60; AF+1: 74; Relic: 70-75; Relic+1: 75; Relic+2: 90 Empy: 80-90


This quite frankly is 100% pure BS

[Fynlar]

I have to say I am disappointed in this decision. I purposely left my RUN at level 50 in the hopes of being able to level into the AF armor as I progressed.

lol, ppl actually did this


That's not something to celebrate. Seeing that even "simple" quests like the one for the Reive unity KI are close to impossible to complete in a small group, I shudder to think what the req's for GEO and RUN AF will be.

Seriously? I've seen several people soloing that quest. Sure, not every person/job can do that, but it is absolutely nowhere close to "close to impossible" with a party unless you're all absolute trash.

[Beans]

I understand the decision, but I disagree with it vehemently. The message being given is that the lower level armors have no value. As a BST, that couldn't be further from the truth, *especially* in the SoA areas where the Charm+ on the original Artifact and Relic is quite helpful for snagging pets that are on par with the enemies in those areas.

So, in a way, it makes me both sad and angry to think that GEO and RUN are being shafted on equipment they could've made use of much sooner than 99. Geomancy or Handbell skill+? Perhaps something to increase the number of Rune Enchantments? Heck, even a handbell that isn't level 1 would be useful long before level 99. PUPs didn't have to wait until 75 to get a desirable animator (40 and 71 respectively at the previous 75 cap).

I was waiting for the AF to be included before I dove headlong into Geomancer. I've wanted to play that job ever since FFXI launched! Every rumored expansion I'd get all excited and hope for Geomancer. You've stuck a fork in that enthusiasm. It's not just a matter of stats (though that's a large part of it), but also the thrill of *looking like the job*. Not all of us play to be god-like endgamers. Some of us just want to have fun and play the role, you know?

[Duelle]

Seriously? I've seen several people soloing that quest. Sure, not every person/job can do that, but it is absolutely nowhere close to "close to impossible" with a party unless you're all absolute trash.Take a trio. AF3+2 DRG, a MNK in Bayld gear and a RDM/DNC (me). Halfway through it started spamming stuff and wiped us. Several times. Going by damage alone I'd say the mob was designed around a tank taking the hits, because it cleaned our clocks too easily. That's with it casting cures on us.

As I said, if AF quests involve mobs are anything like that one, it's going to hurt. A lot.

[Demonicpagan]

I understand the decision, but I disagree with it vehemently. The message being given is that the lower level armors have no value. As a BST, that couldn't be further from the truth, *especially* in the SoA areas where the Charm+ on the original Artifact and Relic is quite helpful for snagging pets that are on par with the enemies in those areas.

So, in a way, it makes me both sad and angry to think that GEO and RUN are being shafted on equipment they could've made use of much sooner than 99. Geomancy or Handbell skill+? Perhaps something to increase the number of Rune Enchantments? Heck, even a handbell that isn't level 1 would be useful long before level 99. PUPs didn't have to wait until 75 to get a desirable animator (40 and 71 respectively at the previous 75 cap).

I was waiting for the AF to be included before I dove headlong into Geomancer. I've wanted to play that job ever since FFXI launched! Every rumored expansion I'd get all excited and hope for Geomancer. You've stuck a fork in that enthusiasm. It's not just a matter of stats (though that's a large part of it), but also the thrill of *looking like the job*. Not all of us play to be god-like endgamers. Some of us just want to have fun and play the role, you know?

You have to look at the way the game is played now. You start out in your starting city areas and then work your way out to the nearest craig zone for that city which takes you to ~10-15. People then move into Gusgen Mines and book burn their job to ~30. Moving from there to either burning their levels in Abyssea in a worm party or moving to Crawler's Nest to ~45. After such it is then off to Bostaunieux Oubliette to 99. In all this, the player may upgrade their armor and weapons a handful of times as they will be spending a number of their levels in some sort of burn party and leaving and coming back just to upgrade gear/weapons just isn't worth the time and effort.

Now having another handbell for Geomancer at some point would be a nice thing to have instead of holding on to a level 1 handbell all the way to level 99. In the beginning I thought I was missing something when the expansion first came out thinking I would at some point come across a higher level handbell. Now this might just be the first artifact item for Geomancer when the AF gear comes out.

Didn't SE say that there wasn't going to be any relic and empy gear for these two jobs? Or was that only in reference to the weapons?

[Demon6324236]

Take a trio. AF3+2 DRG, a MNK in Bayld gear and a RDM/DNC (me). Halfway through it started spamming stuff and wiped us. Several times. Going by damage alone I'd say the mob was designed around a tank taking the hits, because it cleaned our clocks too easily. That's with it casting cures on us.

As I said, if AF quests involve mobs are anything like that one, it's going to hurt. A lot.Yeah, with that party you should have won that fight easily... I soloed it only a few days after the content came out and I found out about the quest as RDM/NIN, and that was with me barley able to hit the thing, with that party setup it should have been easy.

[Lithera]

Wow I duoed that fight with my husband on his blu n I was on my sch. I'm not even a very well geared nor do I feel that I'm really good at the job. Think he came close to death maybe once.?

Back on topic even though this for me means I have a lot of leveling to do I am glad we get to go back to questing our AF with these two jobs.

[Glamdring]

Didn't SE say that there wasn't going to be any relic and empy gear for these two jobs? Or was that only in reference to the weapons?

I only read weapons. that being said, I don't recall anyone asking about anything else.

I a both happy and disappointed with this move. Yay for relevant gear at current 99 content, boo for no leveling gear, maybe no AF weap, having to quest in in odds and ends of pick-up armor that we have to play the jobs in now, and the big F U to the other 20 jobs that will NOT have level 99 AF armor.

I think that about covers it. Wait, and the instant move from our AF into trying to immediately outclass it with delve armor/weap in all probability.

[Demonicpagan]

I only read weapons. that being said, I don't recall anyone asking about anything else.

Ok, it's been a while since I read the thread that mentioned it.

[Alhanelem]

So does this mean that GEO and RUN will not get Relic or Empyrean armors? Meaning that AF is the only set that they get, or will Relic and Emp be added in later on as well?
They probably will but unlike the other jobs, these would be lower tier.

[Corey]

shock aside, the invocation of item level here makes me think... they are calling it artifact now, but i wonder if these might be our first glimpses of the next tier of AF armor? such that, all jobs might one day have an AF in the item level range of whatever RUN/GEO's 99 AF is.

[Calamity]

AF is fine and all, but I want to know the important stuff, like, when are we getting run and geo job emotes? Seriously, priorities!

[Demonicpagan]

AF is fine and all, but I want to know the important stuff, like, when are we getting run and geo job emotes? Seriously, priorities!

I am going to take a wild guess here and say when maintenance hits for the update.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I can't say the same for relic and empyrean, but one of the big draws for artifact armor for me today is getting to see the story of the questline unfold (except Borghertz; I hope he died in a fire). Even if the gear itself is no longer relevant, the storyline is rewarding itself for some of us.

However, the kinds of players who enjoy such stories and the kinds of players who would jump through whatever hoops will be necessary for "level 105" gear are generally mutually exclusive. Even today it's not uncommon to see players parked at rank 6 simply because they see no point in continuing beyond Dynamis access. And of all the debate and complaints about this-or-that Empyrean weapon, not once have I seen the complaint be "There's no story there."

So now I'm envisioning S-E giving us GEO and RUN AF quests with storyline that will just get clicked through by those who can access it, and be out of reach for those who would be most interested in seeing it.

Well, that or they'll just sell it to us for bayld.

[Limecat]

I'm glad they took this route. There's not much sense adding new 50-60 gear that'll be useful for all of a few hours and some vanity screenshots. Now the question is whether this'll be more like AF3+2 or +2'd Relic.

[Demonicpagan]

I'm glad they took this route. There's not much sense adding new 50-60 gear that'll be useful for all of a few hours and some vanity screenshots. Now the question is whether this'll be more like AF3+2 or +2'd Relic.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. No sense on doing 50-60 gear with the way the game is played now.

[RushLynx]

lvl 50-60 AF is still useful for ability and skill bonuses on all of my jobs... The fact that so many people simply skipped over it and never bothered going back to get them as macro pieces is pretty sad.

If nothing else, this decision is just something they had to cut corners on because their man-power is starved with the launch of FFXIV just two months away...

[Catmato]

First, one reason is that Adoulin content is for level 99+ and as such the monsters in those areas are extremely high level, and trying to acquire level 50-60 gear in these areas just doesn't make sense.

The other major reason is that most of you are looking forward to wearing these new artifact armors to do battle with the monsters that lurk in Adoulin areas, so the development team made the decision to implement them at the proper level in which they can be used.
In this case, why aren't GEO and RUN set to level 99 when they're unlocked?

[Kincard]

This change only really bothers me from an OCD "now AF charts will look funny" standpoint.

Will other jobs be obtaining ilevel105 JSE or are there any plans for further JSE in the future?

[Xantavia]

AF is fine and all, but I want to know the important stuff, like, when are we getting run and geo job emotes? Seriously, priorities!
When they add it, I'm sure I won't be unlocking it. You know the torque is going to be 99 and require some crazy drops from Aldouin mobs to unlock.

[Asiren]

This announcement gives me mixed feelings. On one hand, I'm unhappy that I have to get my GEO/RUN to 99 before I can even wear my AF in comparison to the older jobs that get to wear their first AF sets at 60.

On the other hand, clearly there's not enough time or manpower to make multiple sets of AF gear anymore. In which case, it might be for the best that we get at least 1 good set of AF gear for GEO/RUN that will be good for level 99. It does make me sad that GEO/RUN may not get any relic or empyrean sets though. :(


You have to look at the way the game is played now. You start out in your starting city areas and then work your way out to the nearest craig zone for that city which takes you to ~10-15. People then move into Gusgen Mines and book burn their job to ~30. Moving from there to either burning their levels in Abyssea in a worm party or moving to Crawler's Nest to ~45. After such it is then off to Bostaunieux Oubliette to 99. In all this, the player may upgrade their armor and weapons a handful of times as they will be spending a number of their levels in some sort of burn party and leaving and coming back just to upgrade gear/weapons just isn't worth the time and effort.

You're making the assumption that everyone levels your way. I don't. So yeah, I'm going to miss having my AF from level 42 to 60.

You can say I'm being obstinate, and I'm just wasting my time. Maybe I am. But, I prefer to do it this way so I can see how the job grows and learn as I level up. Added bonus: I don't have to spend as much time skilling up at 99 because *gasp* I leveled up at a "slower" rate.

I still use (ahem, abuse) Ground Tomes, and I duo with my husband mostly. The only difference is I don't level in Ground Tome alliances.


That's not something to celebrate. Seeing that even "simple" quests like the one for the Reive unity KI are close to impossible to complete in a small group, I shudder to think what the req's for GEO and RUN AF will be.

Getting the Reive Unity KI is not hard if you're prepared for it. I did it as a WHM with my husband (who was on NIN). Due to the wait for the ??? target (this was soon after SoA was released), we teamed up with another 2-person team (another NIN and his WHM). No one was in danger of dying during the whole fight.

Granted this is an ideal set-up, but I think even a DRG, MNK, and RDM should be able to take on the Reive Unity KI NM with no problems.

[Valenia]

So in the past the logical progression was:

Get the quest and Unlock it, for a bit of info on the job.
get to 40, start your quest line that gives back story to said job
get to 50, continue quest line and receive armor
60, Yay I feel like a real "JOB" now
70, defeat LB quest and conclude story

How does that work with AF being 90+ and having no Limit break quest at all?

There's no sense of progression. Its just catering to the people who afk level their jobs in Abyssea and mash enter through cutscenes.

I know its an unpopular opinion because people were disagreeing with me in LS chat...but I'd rather they give us the 52-60 armor and leave the quests in Adoulin. You can tell me its annoying to sneak and invis your way through a zone and dodging True aggro mobs sucks...but its part of the fun of the job. Trucking out to staging points dodging imps and the long slog out to the Execution Chamber in Halvung were just highlights on my trip leveling BLU.

You're already catering to the grind as fast as possible and spam enter people with most of the Adoulin content. Can't you just concede this one thing to the people who like the lore and take the trip to 99 at their own pace even if its considered slow and stupid?

Very likely it won't happen...and I'll live with it, but I'll always think its dumb.

[Leatherman]

I can't wait to see the stats! Now I'm going to express something odd but something nice to point it out. With other Jobs you can kinda pick which piece you want for the "Perfect Set", or different AFs will grant different bonus like DEX, ACC, CRIT, Magic CRIT, stuff like that.

Geo is a job that can swing a club and staff quite well, so will there be an option to maybe add some acc for GEO to go Melee/Elemental WS mode with light Nuke?

The new Delve Club gives some acc but feels like it's missing quite a bit of punch, The Delve staff is awesome just doesn't have accuracy. Either geo was not meant to go anywhere near melee and I'm dreaming out loud or maybe it will be an option for Augmentation on gear.

[Demonicpagan]

You're making the assumption that everyone levels your way. I don't. So yeah, I'm going to miss having my AF from level 42 to 60.

Alright, let me make a slight correction. MOST people tend to level this way. There are the occasional outliers such as yourself.

[Kincard]

Actually, I just thought of something- in the past job-specific 75 limit break quests were basically the final "chapter" of the AF quests, so I'm wondering how that's going to work this time...the genkai quest is just going to be the pre-requisite for the AF?

[Leatherman]

Just a simple request, please don't make it too hard so that a low-man party can't do it. People do have friends but not everyone is willing to help so easy. After all I do want to get my GEO AF~!

[Fynlar]

Take a trio. AF3+2 DRG, a MNK in Bayld gear and a RDM/DNC (me). Halfway through it started spamming stuff and wiped us. Several times. Going by damage alone I'd say the mob was designed around a tank taking the hits, because it cleaned our clocks too easily. That's with it casting cures on us.

As I said, if AF quests involve mobs are anything like that one, it's going to hurt. A lot.

That mob starts to rage very quickly, around 5 minutes or so, possibly even less. But as long as you don't dilly-dally, he's a wimp.

[Lithera]

Along with most people used all or a good chunk of their AF to beat Maat or their Job's version of Maat. What happens to the lone person who just started the game and wanted to level geo or run 1st? Not that I think anyone would go and do that, but if they did then they would have to do the 70 cap in mix n match gear. The 40-60 gear was the 1st addressing of what the jobs might need help with unless it was Smn af in which it didn't help in the two areas it needed. Then relic was to fix some of the short comings of the af and help the job even more for the 70-75. It's not even like it would be tooo big of a stretch for Geo or Run gear to appear in dynamis. There were a few characters who came from Adoulin or knew people from there. Maybe some Run or Geos came over on the down low.

[Demonicpagan]

Along with most people used all or a good chunk of their AF to beat Maat or their Job's version of Maat. What happens to the lone person who just started the game and wanted to level geo or run 1st? Not that I think anyone would go and do that, but if they did then they would have to do the 70 cap in mix n match gear. The 40-60 gear was the 1st addressing of what the jobs might need help with unless it was Smn af in which it didn't help in the two areas it needed. Then relic was to fix some of the short comings of the af and help the job even more for the 70-75. It's not even like it would be tooo big of a stretch for Geo or Run gear to appear in dynamis. There were a few characters who came from Adoulin or knew people from there. Maybe some Run or Geos came over on the down low.

Problem with this is that a new player can't level RUN or GEO first. Why? Because it's an advanced job and won't be unlockable until the player hits level 30 on one of the 6 basic jobs.

Unlocking the two jobs is a breeze since to unlock GEO is having a petrified log (3k gil on AH) and running to an Ergon Locus to rest for 5 minutes, and to unlock RUN run and get a KI.

I am eager to see how the quest lines play out since the final chapter for the SCH and DNC AF gear was the final limit break quests for both of these jobs. I would't doubt both of the jobs AF gears to be fairly expensive to acquire items. It's probably going to follow the lines of how some of the DNC AF gear was obtained, meaning it's not going to be cheap (especially to someone like me who doesn't have much gil to begin with and acquiring the amount most players I know is only a dream). I would gather to say the final piece of AF for both jobs will be some sort of BCNM fight.

[Deifact]

No need to worry. All GEO AF will be acquired by resting in different area's and RUN AF will be acquired by spamming emotes 100 times.

[Behemothx]

If you need bayld to acquire those items, I'm going to go insane. I hate Reives with a passion.

[Renaissance2K]

Does this mean the other twenty jobs are going to get Content Level 105 JSE at some point?

[Lithera]

Problem with this is that a new player can't level RUN or GEO first. Why? Because it's an advanced job and won't be unlockable until the player hits level 30 on one of the 6 basic jobs.

Thanks for assuming I meant that a person could just pick up these jobs from character creation. What was left unspoken was that said new person goes and unlocks either one or both and wants to take them to 99 1st. Unlike the other jobs who get to use gear that is tailored to their job in doing their lv70 cap fight, Geo n Run won't have that luxury. Though I doubt anyone would be doing this, but hey there could be someone who would want to.

[Lithera]

If you need bayld to acquire those items, I'm going to go insane. I hate Reives with a passion.

Would you rather have to collect items that are rare to get and then wait a day? You might not like rieves but at least bayld is almost as easy to get as allied notes are.

[Quetzacoatl]

Excuse me, but I grind my jobs to 99 AND I don't mash through Job AF CS because yay story~

Apparently I'm a minority

[Mirage]

shock aside, the invocation of item level here makes me think... they are calling it artifact now, but i wonder if these might be our first glimpses of the next tier of AF armor? such that, all jobs might one day have an AF in the item level range of whatever RUN/GEO's 99 AF is.

I am hoping so as well. Every (good) heavy DD regadless of job looking the same (except the weapon) at lv99 is really boring.

[Kincard]

Excuse me, but I grind my jobs to 99 AND I don't mash through Job AF CS because yay story~

Apparently I'm a minority

You're not, a great deal of the hardcore playerbase stick around because they love the lore/setting of FFXI, it's just that players that don't accomplish very much in the game like to make themselves feel better by saying they're better at enjoying the setting of the game more than said players.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Just ran a /search: roughly 15% of the players on Sylph right now are level 99 and rank 6.

/sea all: 1129
/sea all rank 6: 211
/sea all 99 rank 6: 165

[Quetzacoatl]

You're not, a great deal of the hardcore playerbase stick around because they love the lore/setting of FFXI, it's just that players that don't accomplish very much in the game like to make themselves feel better by saying they're better at enjoying the setting of the game more than said players.

Yeah, definitely. It just seems weird to me that some people find themselves disregarding lore and just play solely for the endgame. Kind of like making water without Hydrogen. And these forums need a sarcasm tag!

[Demonicpagan]

Just ran a /search: roughly 15% of the players on Sylph right now are level 99 and rank 6.

/sea all: 1129
/sea all rank 6: 211
/sea all 99 rank 6: 165

On Asura those numbers are as follows:
/sea all: 1481
/sea all rank 6: 263
/sea all 99 rank 6: 203

Making it roughly 14%

[Hayward]

This is a curveball that would make any MLB pitcher proud. As long as 1) Delve is NOT involved in the acquisition of whatever is required to get these pieces, 2) Umbril Ooze is not involved whatsoever, and 3) the stats on each set are worthy of fighting Adoulin-level monsters (read: AF3+2-quality or higher), I am fine with this twist on tradition.

I also agree with creating some kind of quest that would allow other jobs to upgrade Artifact or Relic gear to level 99 quality. I'd be all in if I knew Evoker's & Summoner's lvl. 99 sets would match or surpass the Caller's +2 set.

[Talias]

Just ran a /search: roughly 15% of the players on Sylph right now are level 99 and rank 6.

/sea all: 1129
/sea all rank 6: 211
/sea all 99 rank 6: 165

I'm actually kind of curious to see these totals (yay useless trivia) but..
Did you just use /sea all for the total?
If so the /sea all rank 6 will ignore all anon players as well, have to start with /sea all 1-99 or only count 99's

[RushLynx]

No need to worry. All GEO AF will be acquired by resting in different area's and RUN AF will be acquired by spamming emotes 100 times.

lol <3

In all seriousness, though, it will probably be more along the lines of the Geomagnetron-style annoyances... Everybody loves fetch-quests! :D Especially when the item you're fetching doesn't actually exist, it's just a random point they put on the ground somewhere~

[Demonicpagan]

I'm actually kind of curious to see these totals (yay useless trivia) but..
Did you just use /sea all for the total?
If so the /sea all rank 6 will ignore all anon players as well, have to start with /sea all 1-99 or only count 99's

When I did this for Asura, the methods used are the
/sea all
/sea all rank 6
/sea all 99 rank 6

So yeah, it ignored all the anon players.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

My /searches were in response to this:


it's just that players that don't accomplish very much in the game like to make themselves feel better by saying they're better at enjoying the setting of the game more than said players.

Kincaid decided to try to make a personal attack while also implying that the number of players who only care about endgame swag and ignore cutscenes was really insignificant. To me, the most obvious sign of "just don't give a damn" is being at 99 but not progressing in rank past Dynamis access.

It was the easiest number to throw back at a flippant comment. I could have spent all day trying to craft /searches for proper statistical research. I could have gone through the Vana'diel Censuses for other obvious signs of "just don't give a damn" (e.g. getting past Divine Might but never having seen the inside of the Celestial Nexus). And I can even point to the going prices of things like Yagudo Necklaces, consumed in large numbers by people who'd rather do the same quest multiple times than multiple quests once. But I think that the results of "/sea all 99 rank 6" alone is compelling enough to argue that about 1 in 6 players see dialog and cutscenes as something to fast-forward through on the way to A-list gear.

Meanwhile, "the players that don't accomplish very much" (as Kincard describes them) by definition have no hope of getting such A-list gear. In that scenario, dialog and cutscenes are about the only compelling reason I can think of for such players to continue paying $12.95/mo.

So back to my original point, having JSE start at 99 sounds like S-E combining the worst of both worlds, namely keeping storyline out-of-reach to those more likely to be interested in it, while accessible to those more likely to skip through it, i.e. the relic/mythic way of doing things. I'd thought S-E finally figured out who wanted what by making empyrean owners suffer through nothing more than being bonked on the head a dozen or so times, but it looks like they're regressing.

[Glamdring]

@Zig-you are also missing all the ones that are rank 10 in all 3 nations that couldn't give a damn about the story but wanted acheivements. I see them playing sometimes-do they ever whine about a CS you can't just spam thru (think ASA final CS), personally I was sitting in my chair laughing my tuchis off through most of it while singing "ding dong the bitch is dead..."

But yeah, alot of the AF CS are great storylines-I loved the ones with Ayame and her family, the quest to the northlands, etc. That was great stuff...

[Alistaire]

This is a pretty lazy route to take for jobs that need the most to catch up to others.

Only way I could see this being good is if these sets accomplish all of what AF/relic/empyrean armors do.

Including the augments on relic+2 armor.

Good luck with that. And with making the armors not retardedly overcrowded in doing so.

And the "expansion is high end content" excuse is a joke; ToaU was like this, not quite as far off but you certainly wouldn't be running around there @ lvl 40-42, where AF starts. And to say lvl 40-60 armor would be useless @ 99 is just plain wrong; there's definitely enough examples of AF that still has uses @ 99 it shouldn't take too much of your resources to figure 2 sets out.

So here's another vote for scrapping this idea and doing it the way the other jobs have been. You've integrated new jobs into dynamis before; this is not that much of a stretch.

[Behemothx]

Would you rather have to collect items that are rare to get and then wait a day? You might not like rieves but at least bayld is almost as easy to get as allied notes are.

Yes I would. Maybe you like playing a mmo alone (since you like gathering allied notes ><...) I don't, and for that reason I hate Reives as well. I play a mmo to play with other people in a strategy setting and reives kills that.

[Lithera]

Yes I would. Maybe you like playing a mmo alone (since you like gathering allied notes ><...) I don't, and for that reason I hate Reives as well. I play a mmo to play with other people in a strategy setting and reives kills that.

So you want to fight over monster spawns like people were back when the TouA jobs got their AF? I play with others plenty. Also when were most rieves solo able ? Only a few jobs can do it and you need skill. You are also missing my point both AN and Bayld are easy to get. Finish a quest get some bayld, deliver some supplies for the courier col, even more bayld. Heck you don't even have to do any rieves to get some. Is it probably the quickest way? Sure in most cases.

[detlef]

I would've preferred 52-60 AF but I'll take 99 if it means that the enhancements are meaningful and competitive with other gear options.

Also, I would think that GEO and RUN will be getting relic armor that can be augmented to enhance future category II merits. It's just recolored AF after all so it's not like a new design is needed. As for Empyrean armor, I'm not optimistic.

[Kincard]

Kincaid decided to try to make a personal attack while also implying that the number of players who only care about endgame swag and ignore cutscenes was really insignificant.

Go back and read your original comment:


However, the kinds of players who enjoy such stories and the kinds of players who would jump through whatever hoops will be necessary for "level 105" gear are generally mutually exclusive.

And you once again make that same mistake in this same post saying:


having JSE start at 99 sounds like S-E combining the worst of both worlds, namely keeping storyline out-of-reach to those more likely to be interested in it, while accessible to those more likely to skip through it

If you're going to say something like that then expect people to point out why that's completely illogical. The only thing you can prove by listing a bunch of people at rank 6 is that said characters exist (And yes, intuitively there's likely plenty of players that don't care about the story), and not that there's no overlap between people who enjoy getting gear and people who enjoy the story.

Finding characters that are stuck at rank 6 also doesn't prove anything when two-boxing is such a regular thing in the game now. They could also be RMT. There's any number of reasons a character might be rank 6 but you're making a mistake conflating them all with people that don't give a shit about the story. There's also plenty of players that don't have REMs or Top-End Gear that spam enter through their cutscenes (I know a couple of them myself).

FYI, ilevel 105 implies something about as hard as Skirmish (Refer here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33458-Follow-up-Level-99-Relic-Mythic-Empyrean-and-Walk-of-Echoes-Weapons)). People have beaten Skirmish with like 3 people. Just from that it implies this isn't going to be that hard, especially if you catch the initial wave of people getting their AF. Failing that, are you saying it's that hard to find 3 or 4 people (Which is about what is required to beat Skirmish) to do such a quest? If they were making it so that you had to defeat Taxet to obtain your new storyline armor I'd be complaining alongside you, but absolutely nothing they said implied this was going to be one of those cases. The main storyline missions from almost all the expansions still require more than one person to complete (Depending on your job), as well.

If you still insist on complaining about the fact you need to find 2 or 3 friends to do your AF quests I won't argue with you because I can understand people complaining about not having enough time for group play, but my initial post was to point out how it makes no sense for you to assume that people who like cool gear don't like the storyline and little to do with whether or not I care if they make the quest soloable or not.

[pancakesandsx]

I'm disappointed in the AF being 99 because it means there is literally no gear available to enhance the jobs effectiveness before 99. I was hoping some of it might be useful for bcnm, and certainly for the limit break fight.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Finding characters that are stuck at rank 6

No. No level 99 character is "stuck" at rank 6. There are rank missions that a level 99 character may legitimately have a hang-up on, but none of them are at rank 6. Level 99 characters wearing nothing more than starter gear can solo rank 6 missions, especially if they are played by a player who has a realistic chance of low-manning Abyssea/Voidwatch/etc. content.

There is no "stuck," there is only "chose not to."


also doesn't prove anything when two-boxing is such a regular thing in the game now.

First, thank you for arguing my point: a level 99 doesn't need help from their alternate character to do rank 6 missions.

But secondly, a player who cared about following mission storylines would create their second character in a different city, to have a chance to play through that city's storyline without the headaches of changing their first's allegiance.

You're trying to argue for the statistical significance of players who (1) are interested in seeing new storyline, but (2) not interested enough to use their second character to do so, and further (3) created a second character to help with content (4) with the specific exception of content related to their first's rank missions, all the while (5) not being annoyed that Signet lasts hours longer on one than the other.

Really?


They could also be RMT.

Because Dynamis currency is such a big money-maker these days? So much so that they're going to waste the time (i.e. billable hours) to get to rank 6, time that could be spent doing far more profitable activities than Dynamis?


There's any number of reasons a character might be rank 6 but you're making a mistake conflating them all with people that don't give a shit about the story.

Yes, there are many reasons a level 99 player is rank 6, but only one that could be statistically significant. You're not even trying to argue that they all "just happen" to be doing their rank 6 missions at that very moment, which is a far greater likelihood than what you're trying to argue.


There's also plenty of players that don't have REMs or Top-End Gear that spam enter through their cutscenes (I know a couple of them myself).

Yes, and they too would likely be level 99 and parked at rank 6, for the very reason I stated: they just don't care.

And of those players you know who exhibit that behavior, how many of them bothered with artifact equipment, rather than skipping right on through to gear they can purchase with cruor in Visions of Abyssea?


FYI, ilevel 105 implies something about as hard as Skirmish (Refer here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33458-Follow-up-Level-99-Relic-Mythic-Empyrean-and-Walk-of-Echoes-Weapons)).

We're talking about the developers that still make all new players solo Maat capped at level 70, and you're talking to someone who clawed their way through CoP before the level caps there were removed. If "bluster through it at double the intended level" isn't an option, I have every confidence that the developers can find a way to make this content eye-gougingly difficult/annoying/whatever to a level 99.


The main storyline missions from almost all the expansions still require more than one person to complete (Depending on your job), as well.

So the people who can hold their own in Skirmish aren't able to solo 4 Jack Cardians?

I didn't "/sea all rank 6-9," I searched exclusively for rank 6. Maybe they're squeamish about trying "Leaute's Last Wishes" and 1000 Needles solo (or even dualboxed, in your scenario), but give me an Onion Sword and I'll have Flat Blade.

[Kincard]

I didn't use the word "stuck" in the literal "they're stuck at rank 6 because they suck" sense, but continue putting words in my mouth if you think that'll make you look better.


First, thank you for arguing my point: a level 99 doesn't need help from their alternate character to do rank 6 missions.

But secondly, a player who cared about following mission storylines would create their second character in a different city, to have a chance to play through that city's storyline without the headaches of changing their first's allegiance.

I just love how you constantly cherry pick situations where things look implausible when all I'm trying to say is that you're conflating people within group A into group B because of said cherry picking. Most people who multibox leave their boxes at rank 6 because they're not interested in seeing the same story twice. I don't know what "headache" you're talking about when you're talking about switching allegiance, it's been long since they removed both the loss of Conquest Points and Outpost Warps.


not being annoyed that Signet lasts hours longer on one than the other.

Most people don't play for over 7 hours straight, which is the minimum amount your Signet Lasts when you're rank 6.


Because Dynamis currency is such a big money-maker these days?

Still makin' 1.5~2 mil a day off Dynamis Currency here. Well, assuming I'd sell it. That's off bills, and assuming I sell them all for 5k each (They're going back up since SE mentioned how they're going to un-suck RMEs). I assume RMTs do ADL by now.


Yes, and they too would likely be level 99 and parked at rank 6, for the very reason I stated: they just don't care.

And of those players you know who exhibit that behavior, how many of them bothered with artifact equipment, rather than skipping right on through to gear they can purchase with cruor in Visions of Abyssea?

Actually, plenty of said players get Artifact Gear simply because it looks cool. They couldn't care less about the story. Some of them like having stuff done and don't care much about the story at all- they're just looking to have fun doing battlefields and stuff.

I'm taking issue with your attitude that's basically "man, those people with great gear that only care about grinding sure don't care about story like all us high-class people that take our time reading do!" If you want complain about them making an event inaccessible to people with limited playtime talk about that instead of spouting so much nonsense.


So the people who can hold their own in Skirmish aren't able to solo 4 Jack Cardians?

Cherry picking again I see. I'm sure you were one of the few people that was good enough to solo Lilith Ascendant but that's still excluding a great majority of the playerbase, including the people you're arguing for that probably have very few jobs leveled and don't have the resources to solo said missions.


(or even dualboxed, in your scenario)

wtf are you even talking about, I think you're getting confused. If your whole stance is that story content should be do-able solo then any example of a mission where you almost always need more than one person disproves what you're getting so worked up about.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Most people who multibox leave their boxes at rank 6 because they're not interested in seeing the same story twice. I don't know what "headache" you're talking about when you're talking about switching allegiance

It still takes more effort than simply picking a different allegiance for a second character you're making anyway. Even if you choose an allegiance at random, that's still a 2/3 chance of picking one different from your first. And if they're truly that averse to "seeing the same story twice," rank 6 is exactly the wrong place to stop, as rank 6 is where the three nations truly start to diverge.

And even if they do pick the same allegiance for their second character, why would you make a second character and then not use it to help complete your first's missions?


Most people don't play for over 7 hours straight

The clock on Signet/etc. stops when you log off. Someone who plays only an hour a day will still notice the great disparity in Signet duration.


Still makin' 1.5~2 mil a day off Dynamis Currency here. Well, assuming I'd sell it. That's off bills, and assuming I sell them all for 5k each (They're going back up since SE mentioned how they're going to un-suck RMEs).

Pet jobs can make similar (if not better) money off of drops from Walk of Echoes, which has far less of a mission prerequisite to participate in. And that's assuming that they're not just flat-out selling power-leveling services for gil. Dynamis is not the optimal gil-making event it once was.


Cherry picking again I see.

It's not "cherry-picking," it's "staying on topic." The subject at hand is rank 6. The only place (and the only need) to fight four Jack Cardians is a Windurst rank 6 mission. After that, there's four level ~60 Yagudo, a hike up Castle Oztroja, and then you stop showing up in the results of "/sea all rank 6."

There are exactly six (6) rank 6 missions in FFXI (and no, "Lilith Ascendant" is not one of them). Name one of them that a level 99 character can't solo. Any job (or lack thereof), any gear (or lack thereof).


wtf are you even talking about

I pointed out to what I feel to be compelling evidence that a sizable portion of players are interested in endgame content to the exclusion of storyline/content. You tried to argue that what I was actually seeing was strong evidence of rampant dualboxing. If someone is interested in reaching San d'Oria rank 7 or beyond, having a second character to share 1000 Needles with will make the first of their two rank 6 missions that much less intimidating.

One moment, you're arguing that rank 7+ can be soloed, so that there's no reason to bring a second character through those same missions. Then you turn around and say it can't be soloed, in which case the second character would need to progress through the same high ranks just to have access to the battlefield for (e.g.) "Saintly Invitation."

[Kincard]

I'm noticing that you have a bad habit of confusing one group of players with another group of players. The group of players that leave their characters at rank 6 and the group of players that are apparently so casual that can't complete Skirmish and somehow were able to clear the story missions that basically require groups to be able to complete are not the same people by your own admission. Why are you confusing these two groups?

You seem to be forgetting that your initial complaint is some nonsense about how people that collect gear and people that enjoy the story don't have an overlap, when in fact there's lots and lots of players (I'd dare say the majority of them) that enjoy both. You go on to say that because of this the AF should not be designed with ilevel105 in mind because the new quests won't please anyone. I counter by saying that not only is ilevel105 actually a pretty low difficulty setting (Your counter of "they suck at game design anyway" is a conversation ender because you can apply that even if the quest was designed for a far lower level- the BLU AF3 Soulflayer was ridiculously difficult at the 75 cap for example, very few 75s could solo that thing), but that even in the past story content has been largely group based- that has absolutely nothing to do with characters staying at rank 6 because obviously the players that enjoy story are beyond that rank and obviously have completed those group activities to get the story they like so much. That level 99 characters can easily clear rank 6 has so little to do with that fact that I can't believe I even have to explain this.

tl;dr quit putting words in other peoples' mouths and try to grasp the overall point that is being made.

[Okipuit]

Does this mean that RUN and GEO won't get Relic armor and Empyreal armor?

In the next version update, only geomancer and rune fencer artifact armor will be added.

As Camate mentioned previously, this gear is for level 99 (item level 105), so while the term artifact is used, you can consider that it will be more powerful than that of the level 50-60 artifact for other jobs.

We'll keep you posted on information about other equipment for these jobs as it becomes available!

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I'm noticing that you have a bad habit of confusing one group of players with another group of players. The group of players that leave their characters at rank 6 and the group of players that are apparently so casual that can't complete Skirmish and somehow were able to clear the story missions that basically require groups to be able to complete are not the same people by your own admission. Why are you confusing these two groups?

Because you're trying to argue they're the same group of people. I'm trying to point out the absurdity of your claim that a player that is able to figure out which end of their weapon to hold in a Skirmish has any real reason to not reach rank 7+ other than "don't want to." Any level 99 job, any nation, any gear, can reach rank 7 without joining a single party, ever.


You seem to be forgetting that your initial complaint is some nonsense about how people that collect gear and people that enjoy the story don't have an overlap, when in fact there's lots and lots of players (I'd dare say the majority of them) that enjoy both.

My argument is that the overlap isn't significant. 1/6 of the level 99 characters are showing the most blatant (but not the only possible) evidence of caring about endgame exclusively. All you've offered is attempts to discredit this with suggestions of highly implausible scenarios.


You go on to say that because of this the AF should not be designed with ilevel105 in mind because the new quests won't please anyone.

No, I'm quite sure that the people who obtain the rewards of the level 99 quests will be pleased with the equipment (depending on stats) and/or the challenge to obtain that equipment. But the people who finish this content are more likely (not all, but more likely) to be the kinds of people who skip storyline content, which has historically been a major part of Artifact quests (and nowadays about the only reason to pick up the quests for many jobs). They got their fight and their gear, they don't care one way or the other if they were shown Adoulin backstory in the process, or simply had a Magian Moogle drop a star on their head.

The players who are not up to completing a level 99 challenge (for any reason) are most likely not paying $12.95/mo because they love beating their head against a brick wall; the most likely reason for them to still be interested in FFXI is collecting bits of lore, making them the ones most likely to be interested in the storyline of these JSE quests. But because they're not up to the task of completing the challenge (for any reason), this bit of lore will be inaccessible to them, just as the storyline around building a Mythic weapon is out of reach for most of us.


I counter by saying that not only is ilevel105 actually a pretty low difficulty setting

"Pretty low" is a relative qualifier that gets tossed around often in these forums. For example, go over to the PLD forums and you'll see plenty of people posting "Anybody can get an Aegis or an Ochain," and then of course start tacking on plenty of caveats like "If they level BST first" or "If they have a decent group supporting them" or any number of such backpedals, where "anybody" stops actually meaning anybody. So can anybody do Skirmish, even if they have no gear higher than level 75 (e.g. NQ relic armor)?


(Your counter of "they suck at game design anyway" is a conversation ender because you can apply that even if the quest was designed for a far lower level- the BLU AF3 Soulflayer was ridiculously difficult at the 75 cap for example, very few 75s could solo that thing),

Today, if you reach 99 in job X, you can solo your Artifact quests as job X, full stop. WAR99 with an Onion Sword, DRK99 with a Chaosbringer, whatever. This is because you are level 99 doing level ~60 content. But I doubt a RUN99 rockin' a Sowilo Claymore will get very far in the level 99 content he'll be expected to face. The threat of making Artifact content level 99 for these new jobs is a step backwards to the days of not being able to solo Artifact quests.

This is S-E saying that RUN and GEO are endgame-only jobs. If you're a bit behind the curve (for any reason), you can only get the full story for 20 out of 22 jobs. Abyssea marked a separation between access to story and the need for skill/gear. This news about the new jobs marks a reversal.

[Glamdring]

In the next version update, only geomancer and rune fencer artifact armor will be added.

As Camate mentioned previously, this gear is for level 99 (item level 105), so while the term artifact is used, you can consider that it will be more powerful than that of the level 50-60 artifact for other jobs.

We'll keep you posted on information about other equipment for these jobs as it becomes available!

could you at least find out if it includes an AF weapon? BEFORE I waste gil buying 37 flame geodes and 6 Ifritites? I don't mind farming but with their drop rates and my available playing time that's 4 real world weeks of farming and, um... no thanks.

[Zhronne]

I'm enjoying SoA a lot, but despite the gameplay balancement we're (slowly) getting which is awesome, can't say I'm happy with the direction they're going.

Making all old content useless, now making lv99 AFs etc. They're all consequences of a different approach to the game.
An approach which I understand and partially justify, but I can't really say I thoroughfully like it.
If I were asked to say what I would have dreamed for FFXI, it definitely wouldn't be something like the current situation.

[Kincard]

clip

Are you seriously comparing something completable with pretty reasonable gear (Skirmish) to stuff like Mythic Weapons or building an Aegis/Ochain? (Both of which involve months of farming)

Try bringing up an example that isn't hyperbole and maybe I'll take you seriously. Even assuming it will take 6 people to beat the NM won't prove a damn thing when there's a lot of story content that was originally designed with 6 people in mind. Again, if you just want to demand they make it soloable, I don't really even care either way, just stop making this ridiculous assumption that the story content and group play have ever been kept in two separate rooms with this game outside of "please bring me 5 rarab gonads" types of quests.

[Rosalie]

In the next version update, only geomancer and rune fencer artifact armor will be added.

As Camate mentioned previously, this gear is for level 99 (item level 105), so while the term artifact is used, you can consider that it will be more powerful than that of the level 50-60 artifact for other jobs.

We'll keep you posted on information about other equipment for these jobs as it becomes available!

What about artifact +1 items from Limbus? Will those be added as well?

[Demon6324236]

This is S-E saying that RUN and GEO are endgame-only jobs.This is SE saying they understand that more than 90% of the active player base has a ton of jobs at 99, and to make lower level gear would be basically restricting said gear to almost no use because of its level. I assure you, if RUN or GEO looked anything like my RDM's AF I would use at most 2 pieces for vital stats, in RUN's case, Enhancing Magic, Fast Cast, and JA enhancments, are the only 3 reasons to use any of it. Do you really think any gear from level 60 is good for anything else? Truth is, not really, unless it has some random stat stacked on like MAB or something for Lunge which we just do not see elsewhere, it would be worthless, and even then, its just another piece of gear to carry for a single reason which may be minor in effect.

Them doing this is in my opinion acknowledging that players are all playing at 99, admitting that all of the content they have made in years was for level 99s, and showing they care enough to make the first JSE for the jobs worthwhile and relevant, rather than making it worthless and outdated. Putting it at 60 would be like fixing those Garrison items they did, yay, they did it, to bad no one will use it because it still sucks. I gotta wonder how many people would be complaining if they made it level 52~60 gear, complaining SE released worthless gear instead of some worthwhile AF. Besides that, level 105 content is basically 3 decent 99s, again, 3 decent 99s... some jobs I am sure will be able to solo it, others wont, if you have friends or a job to solo it, go, do it, if you don't, then get some friends, and go do it.

The fact you can not solo it is not a step back, this game should not be about soloing and dual-boxing most of the content, its not a step forward either. Also, look at one of their posts they made recently, not sure where, but somewhere they said something about making mercenaries you could hire in Adoulin to help out with Reives and such, I am sure you could have these same NPCs come to help with AF quests all the same.

[Quetzacoatl]

What about artifact +1 items from Limbus? Will those be added as well?

Upgrading Adoulin AF to AF+1 from doing Limbus at this point would be considered bass-ackwards, but if +1's are in the plans anyway, they'll be upgradable in Adoulin

The fact that Adoulin AF1 would be coming straight from quests in Adoulin should have given you a huge hint about their direction for future Adoulin AF

[Annalise]

could you at least find out if it includes an AF weapon? BEFORE I waste gil buying 37 flame geodes and 6 Ifritites? I don't mind farming but with their drop rates and my available playing time that's 4 real world weeks of farming and, um... no thanks.

That's 740k or less on your server. While I don't know what your playtime is, you can likely farm 740k much faster than you can farm 37 flame geodes. I would hope you could make 740k quicker than in four weeks. That's something you should likely consider.

[Demon6324236]

The fact that Adoulin AF1 would be coming straight from quests in Adoulin should have given you a huge hint about their direction for future Adoulin AFMight I remind you that the AF1+1 items for both ToAU and WotG jobs? Their AFs take place in their respective areas as well, but go back to Limbus for their upgrades, the same way as all jobs have Relic in Dynamis and Emp in Abyssea. The only point you could have made was that the level difference would make it weird, because it would be doing a level 75 event for level 99 gear upgrades, to which I have to say they could easily add AF1+2 items to Limbus II areas, make these all level 52~60 with level 75 upgrades, and not only would everyone here be happy, but so would everyone who has any AF gear of use they want to see upgraded!

[Leatherman]

Does this mean the other twenty jobs are going to get Content Level 105 JSE at some point?

Maybe not right away but I believe eventually they will add Mog trials to increase the level cap and stats of items and perhaps even Augments from Adoulin Inventor's Coalition people.

That's plenty of content to dish out though. They can just avoid it all and say we will give GEO and RUN 1 AF set being Lv105 items and call it good. All the other jobs can pick and choose what item set they get.

[Quetzacoatl]

The only point you could have made was that the level difference would make it weird, because it would be doing a level 75 event for level 99 gear upgrades

That's all you had to say, everything else is pretty much irrelevant to the point I was making

And while AF1+2 would be nice, it's never going to happen, because pretty much everything at this point is going into Adoulin.

[Demon6324236]

That's all you had to say, everything else is pretty much irrelevant to the point I was makingYou said...
The fact that Adoulin AF1 would be coming straight from quests in Adoulin should have given you a huge hint about their direction for future Adoulin AFwhich makes it sound like they would only put +1 in Adoulin because the quests are in Adoulin as well. Its not really a convincing argument because all AFs come from the same expansion areas as the job itself. My reply to that line of thought was basically that it makes no sense cause other AFs do the same this as this and still have +1s in there, the level difference is the only thing that makes sense...

I do not understand how that is irrelevant.

[Kristal]

That's not something to celebrate. Seeing that even "simple" quests like the one for the Reive unity KI are close to impossible to complete in a small group, I shudder to think what the req's for GEO and RUN AF will be.

I tore through that mob on PUP/DNC with no adoulin gear whatsoever. Just a 90 Verethragna, full set of Cirque +2 and my only piece of VW loot: Deluxe Animator. It felt easier then some of the regular mobs I've been killing in Ceizak up to that point. (But no hybrid elementals... those are evil... I'd rather fight a Phantasmagoric Umbril then a Treefrost Gefyrst, because I know I can kill the umbril.)

[Kristal]

I'm disappointed in the AF being 99 because it means there is literally no gear available to enhance the jobs effectiveness before 99. I was hoping some of it might be useful for bcnm, and certainly for the limit break fight.

They could make whole sets of gear and quests to match AF and relic, but what is the point? A few people might do them for completion sake, but otherwise AF and relic gear is going straight towards the Porter Moogles (barring a few macro pieces).

It's far better to make a competitive set of 99 gear, since that is what people will be using anyway. That includes an emp-grade GS for RUN (with glowing runes, I hope ;) with upgrade potential like a delve weapon, and probably a bell on par with PUP's Alternator.

I would certainly like to see Adoulin RSE for all 22 jobs, but GEO and RUN should have priority since they lack any distinctive features. (Delve augments for Empyrean armor would also work, although they would become unstorable at that point.)

[Jamesy]

Ok professor jamesy is here.

The reason why people are annoyed by this as well as myself is your saying low level af and relic gear are useless which isn't the case. Af armor still to this day is quite useful as well as upgradable sure it's for macros but I'm constantly switching gear I mean if you saw a scholar not utilizing the benefits from his Af coat in Dark arts when using drain aspiring and sleep I'd probably pee myself laughing. Or let's say a dancer uses spectral jig without their Af shoes and Etoile tights on i most certainly would call them a noon because they aren't using the beneficial gear alloted to them.

My point being these jobs don't start at level 99 and cant be expected to only need 1 set when they clearly need to level 1-99 just like everyone else

[Kincard]

The AF (including +1 because the +1 rarely does anything anyway aside from add a couple base stats) that is still relevant is few and far in-between. Besides, if anything making the gear level 99 gives it a better chance of still being relevant at 99. The relevant AF to this day are Jigs, Dark Arts, and uh...Magus Jubbah +1 I guess? You're not technically wrong or anything, but I don't see the point of spending more development time so they can create 3 pieces of gear that look like this (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Magus_Charuqs_%2B1) and two pieces of gear you'll macro into your lunges and swordplay.

[Jamesy]

kincard its honestly laziness i could design the gear sets in a day on my laptop its pure SE being lazy i still use all my af for almost every job minus a few pieces as well as relic maybe 2 pieces out of each set i dont use sure they are in macros but they are still useful.

a key example would be melee hose +2 with enhancment for hundred fists it increases durration from 45 seconds to 60 your saying that has no relevance?

or monster jackcoat +2
Augments "Reward" III

Removes Paralyze, Poison, Blind, Slow, Weight, and Silence from pet.

my problem is they are slacking on content you can obtain relic for blu and pup in dynamis why should these 2 new jobs be SOA only?

there isnt a supporting argument from square enix that makes sense other then they are being lazy. because as i said your geo or run doesnt start at level 99 why should their gear?

makes 0 sense

[Ketaru]

I, for one, think they should just add AF, Relic, and Empyrean in one fell swoop. I guess others don't agree because it would be largely useless or situational at this point. But it would be nice to know if they still care about some internal consistency at this point. Or are they just going to make the game up as they go along instead of having any real plan to make it seem like a fully realized game again?

[Kincard]

kincard its honestly laziness i could design the gear sets in a day on my laptop its pure SE being lazy

I, for one, think they should just add AF, Relic, and Empyrean in one fell swoop.

Agreed, but there's a lot of posters around here like myself that are jaded and don't think wishing really hard will suddenly make SE stop making content at the speed of one line of dialogue a week.


i still use all my af for almost every job minus a few pieces as well as relic maybe 2 pieces out of each set i dont use sure they are in macros but they are still useful.

a key example would be melee hose +2 with enhancment for hundred fists it increases durration from 45 seconds to 60 your saying that has no relevance?

Shifting the goal posts. Why are you suddenly talking about relic +2 pieces in a discussion about NQ AF pieces?

I use almost no AF piece anymore I'm sure some people would argue there's no reason to waste an inventory slot over it at all.

I use Rogue's Poulaines for Flee (useful)
I use Ninja Hatsuburi for Enfeebles (meh)
I use Magus Jubbah +1 for Blue Magic (good)
I use 4 pieces of Temple for their JA boosts but none of them are required in the least.

Across my 10 99 jobs I use a grand total of 7 AF pieces and five of those are completely dispensable.

[Glamdring]

That's 740k or less on your server. While I don't know what your playtime is, you can likely farm 740k much faster than you can farm 37 flame geodes. I would hope you could make 740k quicker than in four weeks. That's something you should likely consider.

wish I could, my playtime is about 2.5 hours daily, with Monday and Friday being Dynamis (and I'm making a Gjallerhorn so I can't sell the $) Tues, wed and sunday being Salvage or Nyzul or something with shell with all passing alex to a member making a mythic and saturday I'm usually skilling up something, recapping XP on jobs that have taken a beating, etc. so making gil, not so easy. I'd start gardening again if there was any need anymore, but the market is pretty flooded with the few good things... so I'm kinda screwed until I can get my playtime back up.

the flipside argument, I don't want to buy all those if I'm going to have a freebie weap in 3 weeks or whenever they get this update done. Seems a waste, esp since I mainly pup, thf and brd these days (I LIKE playing my other 6 jobs, but there isn't alot of need for them, especially with rng and rdm facing some major skill gaps still, and with the game freeze issues I don't bst much anymore). Granted, that's a personal problem (except the game freezing, that's SE software), but it's still a factor in how to best use my time.

[Kristal]

Agreed, but there's a lot of posters around here like myself that are jaded and don't think wishing really hard will suddenly make SE stop making content at the speed of one line of dialogue a week.



Shifting the goal posts. Why are you suddenly talking about relic +2 pieces in a discussion about NQ AF pieces?

I use almost no AF piece anymore I'm sure some people would argue there's no reason to waste an inventory slot over it at all.

I use Rogue's Poulaines for Flee (useful)
I use Ninja Hatsuburi for Enfeebles (meh)
I use Magus Jubbah +1 for Blue Magic (good)
I use 4 pieces of Temple for their JA boosts but none of them are required in the least.

Across my 10 99 jobs I use a grand total of 7 AF pieces and five of those are completely dispensable.

On PUP I use two AF pieces (one for Maneuvers +1/Overload reduction, the other for Repair Erase bonus), but the effects on both are minor and can be ignored. (Also use relic+2 hat, but only for it's Regen+2 Refresh+2 effects while walking between destinations.)

[Camate]

Greetings everyone,

I have a bit of information to share with you about in regards to rune fencer and geomancer artifact equipment.


About the quest to obtain artifact equipment
The quest monsters you will need to fight in order to obtain rune fencer and geomancer artifact equipment will be a trigger popped monster.

In the next version update we will be adding item level 106 weapons and armor which can be purchased with Bayld, so by possessing these items, or Skirmish grade weapons (level 105), these quests can be undertaken with less than 6 people.

As many of you have been wondering, just like previous artifact equipment quests, these new quests will begin with the artifact weapon. Rune fencers will receive a nice shiny great sword, while geomancers will receive a club and bell. These will be roughly the same item level as the equipment.


Item level for rune fencer and geomancer artifact equipment
Previously we had mentioned that the item level for rune fencer and geomancer artifact equipment would be 105; however, due to the fact that we will be implementing the Bayld items mentioned above, we have decided to change the level to 109.


Rune fencer and geomancer job-specific equipment
We'll introduce relic and empyrean armor for rune fencer and geomancer in the future.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Rune fencer and geomancer job-specific equipment
We'll introduce relic and empyrean armor for rune fencer and geomancer in the future.


The entire point of making "Artifact" equipment be level 99 is that content below level 99 isn't "relevant" any more. So why are you going back and releasing level 75 and level 90 gear for these same jobs? Or will those too be level 99?

/facepalm

[Kiakasha]

The entire point of making "Artifact" equipment be level 99 is that content below level 99 isn't "relevant" any more. So why are you going back and releasing level 75 and level 90 gear for these same jobs? Or will those too be level 99?

/facepalm

agreed... this sounds like a desperate attempt to make everyone happy... or a set up for neo-Abyssea :-)

[Delvish]

The entire point of making "Artifact" equipment be level 99 is that content below level 99 isn't "relevant" any more. So why are you going back and releasing level 75 and level 90 gear for these same jobs? Or will those too be level 99?

/facepalm

Mentioned this a few times in various places, but this is actually very beneficial. Sucks to have more gear to lug around, but I still use all of my empy gear and a few pieces of Relic and AF from my other jobs. The armor obviously won't stand up to the strength of the AF like we are accustomed, but the benefit will as always come from the special enhancements that come from macroing pieces.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

If they're going to make the "Artifact" be level 99, the least they could do is get it right the first time and eliminate the need for such ridiculous gear swaps, especially since they're so reluctant to expand player inventory options further (and they keep giving us gear that is only beneficial in one or two specific events).

On top of that, adding relic armor for post-Zillart jobs to Dynamis was a kludge; They even admitted as much. There's no reason to believe that adding Adoulin jobs to Abyssea will be anything less. As this old content becomes more and more irrelevant, unless they intend to make it more viable to solo Dynamis currency or whatnot on more jobs than BST, DNC and/or THF (fat #$^@ing chance!), there is no need for such a kludge any more to force these new jobs into such old content.

Are they going try to shoehorn these jobs and their level 99 "Artifact" armor into Limbus as well?

[Kojo]

I'm wondering if the AF will truly be useful or situationally useful. By that I am curious as to what kind of stats they will have, other AF had random stats just thrown at them, with a piece or two actually useful out of an entire set, Relic was much the same, but it's usefulness was more heavily job related, it seemed, Emp armor seemed to be a wearable job buff for nearly any given job. So I'm curious as to whether RUN/GEO will be following the trend of AF being more for looks, being semi-useful like post-ToAU AF, or if it will be along the lines of Emp gear since it is IL109 and it will pretty much be all RUN has, assuming they don't skimp on the DEF numbers.

[Zhronne]

Rune fencer and geomancer job-specific equipment
We'll introduce relic and empyrean armor for rune fencer and geomancer in the future.
[/list]
At least one good news today! :P

[Glamdring]

The entire point of making "Artifact" equipment be level 99 is that content below level 99 isn't "relevant" any more. So why are you going back and releasing level 75 and level 90 gear for these same jobs? Or will those too be level 99?

/facepalm

don't think it's as bad as all that, Relic and Empy have also been referred to as AF2 and AF3 as well; historically, each has been more powerful than the level before, and recently augmentable beyond that. So, if this is level equivalent 109 I'm inclined to think Relic might be 120 and Empy 130, augmentable to be sidegrde pieces in the high 130s-140ish. Granted, I have nothing to base this on but the conventional trends.

[Glamdring]

I'm wondering if the AF will truly be useful or situationally useful. By that I am curious as to what kind of stats they will have, other AF had random stats just thrown at them, with a piece or two actually useful out of an entire set, Relic was much the same, but it's usefulness was more heavily job related, it seemed, Emp armor seemed to be a wearable job buff for nearly any given job. So I'm curious as to whether RUN/GEO will be following the trend of AF being more for looks, being semi-useful like post-ToAU AF, or if it will be along the lines of Emp gear since it is IL109 and it will pretty much be all RUN has, assuming they don't skimp on the DEF numbers.

well, if it's level 109 out of the box it's probably going to be at least marginally useful compared to the odds and ends of non-JSE many of us have had to play with. Certainly more useful for rune than the salvage +2 set as an example. but, hooray for wasting a couple months trying to gear these jobs even halfway decent only to have it renderred moot.

[Rosalie]

Greetings everyone,

I have a bit of information to share with you about in regards to rune fencer and geomancer artifact equipment.


About the quest to obtain artifact equipment
The quest monsters you will need to fight in order to obtain rune fencer and geomancer artifact equipment will be a trigger popped monster.

In the next version update we will be adding item level 106 weapons and armor which can be purchased with Bayld, so by possessing these items, or Skirmish grade weapons (level 105), these quests can be undertaken with less than 6 people.

As many of you have been wondering, just like previous artifact equipment quests, these new quests will begin with the artifact weapon. Rune fencers will receive a nice shiny great sword, while geomancers will receive a club and bell. These will be roughly the same item level as the equipment.


Item level for rune fencer and geomancer artifact equipment
Previously we had mentioned that the item level for rune fencer and geomancer artifact equipment would be 105; however, due to the fact that we will be implementing the Bayld items mentioned above, we have decided to change the level to 109.


Rune fencer and geomancer job-specific equipment
We'll introduce relic and empyrean armor for rune fencer and geomancer in the future.


I still see no mention of +1 versions from Limbus. Please clarify one way or the other if these will even be implemented in the future, and what equipment level they might be.

[Kristal]

I still see no mention of +1 versions from Limbus. Please clarify one way or the other if these will even be implemented in the future, and what equipment level they might be.

Why would we want them to give us the option to downgrade lvl 109 gear to lvl 74?

[Kristal]

Item level for rune fencer and geomancer artifact equipment
Previously we had mentioned that the item level for rune fencer and geomancer artifact equipment would be 105; however, due to the fact that we will be implementing the Bayld items mentioned above, we have decided to change the level to 109.


Rune fencer and geomancer job-specific equipment
We'll introduce relic and empyrean armor for rune fencer and geomancer in the future.
[/list]

Will existing jobs be able to upgrade their artifact armor to IL109 as well? It doesn't have to be next update, obviously, but somewhere in the future.

[FaeQueenCory]

LoL it seems like a LOT of people (not just me thank God) were holding off on leveling RUN/GEO past 50-60ish for the AF1 set to be released.

And it seems rather silly to say "Adoulin is 99+" don't need you at lv50 running around and dying...
when most of the stuff in Adoulin won't touch you when you're sneaked and invisible... so... that seems silly.
I think that a lot of people, while enjoying the 99 gear (myself included) really wished that RUN and GEO got the normal AFs... Artifact at 40-60 (I'm including the weapon!), Relic at 71-75, and then Empyrean at 80-90...
I had also hoped that the jobs would follow the normal formula... because of diversity.
Rare is there a time when AF1 is ever used outside of leveling... but Relic gear can hold on par with Empyrean gear depending on the taste of the user.
And I like choice when it comes to my gear.

[Jamesy]

least they listened and added the normal relic and empy gear to eventually being added

[FaeQueenCory]

I actually thought of a "compromise" a couple days ago....
more of a "what if" rather than a real compromise.
What if this 99 artifact gear... (I still have problems with just calling it the artifact set... I don't care if Adoulin is a +99 place... Rune Fencer and Geomancer are still jobs that can be played everywhere else in the game.)
What if it's an "AF4".

What I mean is that what if this "artifact gear" is a new AF... wherein RUN and GEO get it now... and eventually... later... they get their artifact, relic, and empyrean sets added?
This way, the mold won't be broken... AND it opens the door for lv120 (is that the right effective level for this gear?) gear for ALL the jobs. Not just RUN and GEO! (of course I'm talking like 1-2 years before the other jobs get it... at the rate RUN and GEO are getting this... it'll take that long for them to get relic and empyrean sets... and those need to be added BEFORE the other 20 jobs get this proposed lv120 "AF4")

And we all know how much players like getting new AFs.... (at least I do... except for the empyrean sets... no one likes getting those.)
AND seeing as how these AFs will be quest-AFs... SE could continue the quests from the regular AFs for the old jobs! (which would be especially nice for jobs like THF wherein that AF quest-line dealt with Tavnazia... a place that for all intents and purposes... didn't exist until CoP was released! Just think of the wonderful possibilities that continuing the old AF quests could do!)

I would be more than happy if the RUN and GEO soon-to-be AF gear was the start of an AF4.
Partially because I still want a "normal" 52-60 AF1...
But mostly because I like variance. More AFs (which are usually the easier high-end gear to get) mean that there is more choice and variance between players. And more choice with what a job can wear can lead to more job combinations and more people able to play the jobs they like the way they like them.

[Kristal]

I actually thought of a "compromise" a couple days ago....
more of a "what if" rather than a real compromise.
What if this 99 artifact gear... (I still have problems with just calling it the artifact set... I don't care if Adoulin is a +99 place... Rune Fencer and Geomancer are still jobs that can be played everywhere else in the game.)
What if it's an "AF4".


Call it AAF. Adoulin Artifact Armor. That way, you don't get confused and hung up on tags. And SE can also add AAFs for the other 20 jobs, so we aren't all forced to wear the same 3 sets of armor. If someone goes /anon, you can't even tell if it's a PUP or MNK anymore... (unless you check non-visual gear). (To be clear, PUPs are the ones with the murderbots chasing them. MNKs are the gimps without murderbots chasing them.)

[Rosalie]

Why would we want them to give us the option to downgrade lvl 109 gear to lvl 74?

I don't know what planet you're living on where +1 is a downgrade. Nowhere did I mention that the gear would be level 74, merely that the upgrade system would most likely be from limbus.

[FaeQueenCory]

Call it AAF. Adoulin Artifact Armor. That way, you don't get confused and hung up on tags. And SE can also add AAFs for the other 20 jobs, so we aren't all forced to wear the same 3 sets of armor.
Then that's pretty much just an AF4.
And that's my point.... making these AFs 99 is dumb not really because AF1 should be 50-60 in level... but mainly because RUN and GEO can be played at any level outside of Adoulin areas... making their AF1 99... basically says: screw actually playing those jobs! grind to 99 now!
And I think that is bad.
If these were the beginnings of an "AAF" or AF4... then I (and probably everyone else) would have no problems with the design decision... In fact, it would even probably create a lot of hype: "level 120 gear that gives my job super boons that's better than empy/relic/VW/NNI/delve gear??? I want that now!!!"
But just having RUN and GEO's AF1 be this lv99-elv120 thing... is just bluh.
I recall someone pointing out how ludicrous it is to claim "Adoulin is 99 area, so AF is 99" by pointing out how ToAU jobs' AF1s aren't 75... (iirc they specifically mentioned BLU)
So why do this with Adoulin?
I really don't think anyone would be mad at "here's the start of new AFs, but you'll have to wait for the AF1s."
I mean, if there were new jobs with Abyssea... and the empy sets for those jobs went gold before the artifact and relic... I don't think anyone would have minded.
The people who burned RUN and GEO to 99 won't care about AF1 anyways, and the people who have held off leveling them clearly have demonstrated the patience to wait some more.
Sure, it sucks to wait... but having this as the beginings of an AAF (I'm liking that more and more) instead of a jank AF1 is just better.
Hell, SE could even make a big to do (contest thingy) about what abilities the former 20 jobs' AAF would have!
(use my ideas SE! they will make you money... probably. I'm no Seer, just a Maid.)

[Kristal]

Then that's pretty much just an AF4.
And that's my point.... making these AFs 99 is dumb not really because AF1 should be 50-60 in level... but mainly because RUN and GEO can be played at any level outside of Adoulin areas... making their AF1 99... basically says: screw actually playing those jobs! grind to 99 now!
And I think that is bad.
If these were the beginnings of an "AAF" or AF4... then I (and probably everyone else) would have no problems with the design decision... In fact, it would even probably create a lot of hype: "level 120 gear that gives my job super boons that's better than empy/relic/VW/NNI/delve gear??? I want that now!!!"
But just having RUN and GEO's AF1 be this lv99-elv120 thing... is just bluh.
I recall someone pointing out how ludicrous it is to claim "Adoulin is 99 area, so AF is 99" by pointing out how ToAU jobs' AF1s aren't 75... (iirc they specifically mentioned BLU)
So why do this with Adoulin?
I really don't think anyone would be mad at "here's the start of new AFs, but you'll have to wait for the AF1s."
I mean, if there were new jobs with Abyssea... and the empy sets for those jobs went gold before the artifact and relic... I don't think anyone would have minded.
The people who burned RUN and GEO to 99 won't care about AF1 anyways, and the people who have held off leveling them clearly have demonstrated the patience to wait some more.
Sure, it sucks to wait... but having this as the beginings of an AAF (I'm liking that more and more) instead of a jank AF1 is just better.
Hell, SE could even make a big to do (contest thingy) about what abilities the former 20 jobs' AAF would have!
(use my ideas SE! they will make you money... probably. I'm no Seer, just a Maid.)

I understand your sentiment, but keep in mind that there isn't much active pre-99 content anymore. The important thing is that this AAF has quests which tell us more about the job, like the AF1 quests did. Relic and emp were merely level-relevant pieces of JSE gear that you collected, but AF1 had more meaning. If AAF catches that sentiment, but with lvl 99 attributes, so much the better!

[FaeQueenCory]

If AAF catches that sentiment, but with lvl 99 attributes, so much the better!
That's backwards thinking. There is no reason that AAF should not continue the "plot" of the job....
If anything, most of the AF1 questlines just kinda ended... without any real resolution.
To which an AF4/AAF quest chain could finish.

The main thing is: RUN and GEO are playable outside of Adoulin and at levels below 99.
The Devs should want NEW players... and new players can't afford to gear themselves steadily from 1-98.
Generally, (and this is more of a modern play) a new person will get help from an older player (if they can) and will often just go: w/e 1-20, RSE 20-30 (because it's free, cheap, and easy to get and decent enough), AF1 50-60... sometimes they might get relic gear (that's assuming they have REALLY nice friends who are willing to take them into dynamis for a bit of farming) and then they'll get to Abyssea and get to 99 and the empy set.

Why this is a bad idea is because this specifically targets and separates old from new players, dividing the community...
and worse... it tells new players to be "abysseanoobs" and burn their job to 99 before they can actually play the game.

Now of course, you're not gonna be going and doing the big fancy stuff before 99.... but YOU EXIST BEFORE 99.
The jobs are HELLA easy to unlock... why then should they demand 99 before AF1?


And just because on YOUR server there isn't any pre-99 content anymore... doesn't mean that Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, and all the rest that I'm forgetting.... stopped existing and no one on any server ever does that.
There are also new players that might want to try that....
We don't want a game filled with lv99s that don't know what they are doing.
And this move advocates to "screw lv1-98 abyburn!"...

Which some people do... And that's fine.
But there are just as many (if not vastly MORE) who will join xp parties in Crawler's Nest till 60 and Bostaunieux Oubliette until 75 before going to Abyssea....
They might do it for skill levels... they might do it to learn their job better.... whatever the reason for it....

Just because YOU don't do the pre-99 stuff or your server isn't doing it... is not a valid argument for ignoring everyone else who does.

Furthermore: Do people still buy <lv99 equipment on the AH? They do on Odin. Quite a lot in fact. Because not everyone is 99. And we want more people playing... all MMOs do... and having this with no intention of adding a real AF1 at a future date... is like giving the middle finger to new-comers.

[Kristal]

That's backwards thinking. There is no reason that AAF should not continue the "plot" of the job....
If anything, most of the AF1 questlines just kinda ended... without any real resolution.
To which an AF4/AAF quest chain could finish.

Hmmm? Why are you suggesting that AAF should be nothing more then simple gather quests, instead of giving more background into RUN and GEO?


Why this is a bad idea is because this specifically targets and separates old from new players, dividing the community...
and worse... it tells new players to be "abysseanoobs" and burn their job to 99 before they can actually play the game.

Now of course, you're not gonna be going and doing the big fancy stuff before 99.... but YOU EXIST BEFORE 99.
The jobs are HELLA easy to unlock... why then should they demand 99 before AF1?


And just because on YOUR server there isn't any pre-99 content anymore... doesn't mean that Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, and all the rest that I'm forgetting.... stopped existing and no one on any server ever does that.
There are also new players that might want to try that....
We don't want a game filled with lv99s that don't know what they are doing.
And this move advocates to "screw lv1-98 abyburn!"...

Which some people do... And that's fine.
But there are just as many (if not vastly MORE) who will join xp parties in Crawler's Nest till 60 and Bostaunieux Oubliette until 75 before going to Abyssea....
They might do it for skill levels... they might do it to learn their job better.... whatever the reason for it....

Just because YOU don't do the pre-99 stuff or your server isn't doing it... is not a valid argument for ignoring everyone else who does.

You might 'enjoy' fast-forwarding jobs from 30-99 in mere hours by leeching in Abyssea, but I don't. I leveled RUN to 99 without stepping foot in Abyssea, and I join level relevant parties on GEO to chase down new Geo-spells and keep the handbell and geomancy skills up to spec. I hope you enjoy sitting in Ceizak for days to level your magic skills.


Furthermore: Do people still buy <lv99 equipment on the AH? They do on Odin. Quite a lot in fact. Because not everyone is 99. And we want more people playing... all MMOs do... and having this with no intention of adding a real AF1 at a future date... is like giving the middle finger to new-comers.

I bought a few pieces of pre-99 gear, although I mostly got an entire mule with leveling gear for all level ranges and I craft what I can't buy.
But if you think that people would be standing in line to hand the handfull of new players their new armors AND upgrades, you are sorely mistaken.
AF takes a while, and it's going to be done by 99s. Some of those NMs took alliances of 50-60s, a good group at 75 and afk solo at 99. And then there's the months of doing limbus runs to get those illusive upgrade items... that everyone is after.
Relic can be solod. At 99. With emp gear if you want to solo, or a small party to hold your hand. And ofcourse, procs. Relic -1 gonna take a load of farming as well. At 99. Then more time to get the +2, AND their augments.
Empyrean going take ages, points need to be earned, chests not giving boots, NMs not dropping cards for +1s and stones/cards/etcs for +2s.

And then all but one or two pieces are dropped off at the closest porter moogle, never to see the light of day (other then screenshot contests.)

Instead, SE compresses the whole mess into one set of gear that isn't only relevant, it's going to replace or macro-swap with existing delve armor. All the stuff we want, without all the waits that pretty much everyone seems to hate.

Yeah, people are still doing older content for shyte and giggles, but you should see the pitchfork crowds when SE doesn't fast-forward stuff asap. And if they do, they are complaining that it's not important to update old content and the devs should just do whatever the complainers personal agenda is.

Look, you can go sit in your rocking chair and reminisce on the good old days, but SE has chosen to take AAF into a different level scheme direction and for good reason.

[andotaco86]

You know, a real AF set would be really, really, really nice... There is almost no reasonable gear available for a RUN from like 40-70. An af set would have solved allot of this.

As for your decision to make the AF99... I think this is due to laziness of not wanting to create more sets than anything else. Was a good excuse tho, I'm sure lots of people bought it. It would have been very easy to place the quest objectives for the lower lvl af in older zones that are of appropriate level...

[Okipuit]

Greetings everyone,

We'd like to give you a bit of insight on our upcoming plans. In order to reforge rune fencer and geomancer artifact armor, you will need to have access to Limbus.

We will be announcing more information soon including ways to increase the artifact item level from 109 to 119 for all jobs soon!

[Demon6324236]

Ok, my question to you is, will we need to upgrade the sets we just took to 109 from other jobs?

[FaeQueenCory]

Greetings everyone,

We'd like to give you a bit of insight on our upcoming plans. In order to reforge rune fencer and geomancer artifact armor, you will need to have access to Limbus.

We will be announcing more information soon including ways to increase the artifact item level from 109 to 119 for all jobs soon!
>_>
Limbus.... again?
Bleah... I hate that place...

Ok, my question to you is, will we need to upgrade the sets we just took to 109 from other jobs?
What do you mean? Are you asking if we're gonna be able to skip the 109 RF and just go straight to the 119 RF+1? Sorta like the relic+2 deal?
Cause I imagine that it'll be more get X pages (pg6-10) from these new 20/30 SKCs BCNMs to update the 109 ==> 119.
Though this talk of needing Limbus for RUN and GEO's 119....
Not only makes me worried... cause... Limbus is way too randomized for my taste...
But it also is really weird to me....
Because wtf does Limbus have to do with anything anymore? the AF1+1 was a really awful BCNM type deal... Plus it had the whole "we can upgrade your AF1 with lost Zilartian science/magic"...
But with RUN and GEO already coming out of the box as RF1....
Having the AF1 for RUN and GEO be 109 divorced those sets from the older sets' way of things.

[Demon6324236]

What do you mean? Are you asking if we're gonna be able to skip the 109 RF and just go straight to the 119 RF+1? Sorta like the relic+2 deal?
Cause I imagine that it'll be more get X pages (pg6-10) from these new 20/30 SKCs BCNMs to update the 109 ==> 119.
Though this talk of needing Limbus for RUN and GEO's 119....No no no, what I mean is do we need to do content to upgrade RF into RF+1 or will we just have RF stats upgraded, the way its worded in the development notes make it sound like they will be just upgraded, and that's why I ask, its hard to tell. RUN and GEO already have a lot less work to do on their AF, similar to the amount of work every other job had to do their original, but with harder fights, we have those harder fights and then some with the new SKCNMs, so it comes to mind that all jobs could simply be upgraded, and GEO/RUN are the only jobs that have this new requirement to upgrade theirs. That's why I ask. I do agree new pages 6~10 make sense, and its what I thought of as soon as they said we were upgrading from 109 to 119, as well as coming from the new battlefields because these were only the first implementation of battlefields. But, since nothing is 100% confirmed on this either way, its best to ask.

[FaeQueenCory]

Oh nonono it's definitely that we will need to be doing.... something.

Maybe the 6-10pgs will be from a special new Limbus area?

Maybe it'll just be more new BCNMs...

The "you will need Limbus access for RUN and GEO" is throwing me way off....
Cause if it's a new Limbus area... then... you'd need it for all 22 jobs...

God I hope it's not "go make RUN and GEO RF1+1 in the same way you made AF1+1".... cause... uhg...
All those random rare-exclusive drops... they're never the ones you want... at least it can be done 1/JPmidnight nowadays...

[Demon6324236]

Limbus access is unlocked at the same time Sea is, perhaps they meant you would need Sea access to get to Divine Might II and Divine Might II would drop the pages required to upgrade it. An idea.

[Leocon]

They've also said they're going to be dropping the rare tag at least, if not both R/E, from Limbus upgrade items. If it's both R/E people might be able to start bazaaring them for an additional source of income, or at the very least you can start stockpiling items for other jobs while trying to farm items for your current job; sure it's not as fast as people seem to want things to be these days, but at least it cuts down on the total time needed to upgrade everything you want.

Edit: They've also said they're going to make the upgrade items stackable as well, which will help a HELLUVA lot, for me at least, inventory-wise heh. I've got a bunch of upgrade items stored on my mules.

[Tamarsamar]

You know, a real AF set would be really, really, really nice... There is almost no reasonable gear available for a RUN from like 40-70. An af set would have solved allot of this.

A Brief overview of this travestY indeed ShowS it to bE Abominable.

I can't help but wonder how this has been allowed to occur.

[Draylo]

How can you hate Limbus... it was awesome fun. I hope they revamp it further!

[FaeQueenCory]

Limbus access is unlocked at the same time Sea is, perhaps they meant you would need Sea access to get to Divine Might II and Divine Might II would drop the pages required to upgrade it. An idea.
But.... wouldn't Divine Might II be SKY access? not Limbus?

How can you hate Limbus... it was awesome fun. I hope they revamp it further!
DX because it's too randomized.
And random+me=never getting the drops I want/need... Let me tell you about the 99 capes and me...
Or rather let's not.
Because I hate them. >:x

And also I am not a fan of just the whole process of it.
The Arch/Omega/Ultima are fun I guess...
But single NMs do not make the content fun for me.

It's just my personal taste. (for me, Dynamis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Limbus)