95 And Below RME Weapons

[Sephiran]

After reading the proposed adjustments and finding out that only the 99-iterations of RME's will be boosted to compete viably with the new Delve weapons, I must say I'm a little worried. These weapons take time to get and not everyone can take them to 99 (especially in the case of empyrean weapons). So if one has a level 85 or 90 empyrean, it's just gonna be the end of the line for us?

I wield an Almace-90 and I love the thing. I obviously don't expect the damage to receive a boost to equal to that which the 99-variants are receiving, but it would be very nice if it received at least some boost (making the Base Damage somewhere from 90~100 would be nice). Also, if weapons that are 95 and below are not to receive this boost, will there be plans to make it easier to upgrade them?

[Chimerawizard]

I disagree, it's the strongest tier weapon available for lv90 players still, it has no need to be enhanced. If you want it stronger, save your hmps and riftdross/cinder and upgrade the weapon.

[Alistaire]

I disagree, it's the strongest tier weapon available for lv90 players still, it has no need to be enhanced. If you want it stronger, save your hmps and riftdross/cinder and upgrade the weapon.

Such a ridiculous response. So you think that, for example, Almace 95 being DMG:66 and Almace 99 being DMG:121 makes any kind of sense?

Nobody's asking for the max DMG on these starting @ lvl 85. Or even for it to scale in a linear fashion. But to say that 85-95 empys (and to a lesser extent, relics) shouldn't get any boost at all is just...well, ridiculous.

Edit: And because the original thread is closed I'll say this for myself here. The reason, at least for myself, in regards to 85-95 weapons, why I never commented on the thread saying to be sure those got boosted as well, is simply because it was such an asinine thought to consider they would make weapons jump to nearly double their base DMG in some cases from 95-99, so to me it was "obvious" they were considering boosting those all along.

I was telling people who asked me the same thing, don't worry, SE didn't say they're only boosting lvl 99 versions (after the first post with the 3 sword examples), because as far as the wording in that post, they didn't. They only gave examples.

Honestly, as far as it goes I care very little about my own involvement over 1 empyrean that probably won't ever be 99...it really is just for the sake of reason that I say the lower levels should at least scale up to some extent.

And as far as my own involvement goes, I sell a fair amount of HMP so I'd be glad for this development in terms of personal gain...but still disagree with it on the basis of principle.

[Sephiran]

And as far as my own involvement goes, I sell a fair amount of HMP so I'd be glad for this development in terms of personal gain...but still disagree with it on the basis of principle.

Hey, if they only boost 99, I'll be glad to take those heavy metal plates off your hands free of charge. Regardless, I agree. I think there needs to be some boosting considering that all these weapons are a time commitment and some are harder than others. Furthermore, as for the shields, I think there should be a block rate boost considering that block rate varies based on physical level.

Perhaps giving us scaling mechanisms that scale horizontally rather than vertically (as Trial of the Magians does) at each level. That way, everyone would get the chance to do some work for a damage and stat upgrade. I suppose when content levels become integrated onto gear, this could be balanced further by making the the equip level 99 after completing scaling with an equip level 90 weapon.

[Demon6324236]

Such a ridiculous response. So you think that, for example, Almace 95 being DMG:66 and Almace 99 being DMG:121 makes any kind of sense?Well that's honesty a silly question too, does this make any sense?

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Its basically the same kind of upgrade, except they are both level 99, both look the same, both have very similar stats, same jobs, and come from the same new unique race of mobs. Its easy to see SE does not care about true balance any more in my opinion from this, because the only real way to make it not look stupid is to nerf the new stuff, which they will not do, so oh well. Unless they nerf the new weapons the game will have this insane jump in DMG at the end, that, or they have to go back through the entire game and rebalance every single thing to lead up to this point, which is stupid. So at this point I suggest you get used to the large gap, because as much as I hate the large gap in damage it seems like its here to stay.

[Alistaire]

Considering the difference in difficulty between the 2 mobs that drop those swords, yes it makes perfect sense.

[Demon6324236]

Considering the difference in difficulty between the 2 mobs that drop those swords, yes it makes perfect sense.There is a large difference in difficulty between getting a 90 and 99 Almace as well, that is why not everyone has one, yourself included as you said yours is 90, am I wrong?

[Alistaire]

There is a large difference in difficulty between getting a 90 and 99 Almace as well, that is why not everyone has one, yourself included as you said yours is 90, am I wrong?

So, let me spell this out...current system for lvl 85/90/95/99 Almace has DMG: 57/61/66/70.

SE says "ok we'll boost r/m/e"...but only @ 99. Post adjustment DMG: 57/61/66/121. Do you have any idea the price hike that will cause with riftcinders?

...and then you counter with "well a sword dropped by a mob with no time limit or participant limit that can be beaten by pickup groups full of scrubs is lower damage than the same model sword dropped by a mob in a zone with 18-person/45- minute limits where you also have to kill 2 other nms so that's the same thing"

Not the same comparison at all. How you can possibly fail to see that is just amazing.

[Demon6324236]

So, let me spell this out...current system for lvl 85/90/95/99 Almace has DMG: 57/61/66/70.

SE says "ok we'll boost r/m/e"...but only @ 99. Post adjustment DMG: 57/61/66/121. Do you have any idea the price hike that will cause with riftcinders?

...and then you counter with "well a sword dropped by a mob with no time limit or participant limit that can be beaten by pickup groups full of scrubs is lower damage than the same model sword dropped by a mob in a zone with 18-person/45- minute limits where you also have to kill 2 other nms so that's the same thing"

Not the same comparison at all. How you can possibly fail to see that is just amazing.You are talking about 2 levels of the same sword as I am comparing it to the same type of thing. So you think that Cinders will spike in price, ok, and? That's not fair? Its going to be one of the most powerful weapons in the game, they take some time and effort, making the 90 version more powerful will not change that, it will just make RMEs at level 90 even more important over any other weapon at level 90. Think about what you are asking for a second, you want a 90 Almace with what? 95 DMG? So what happens to every other sword in the game at and above that level with lower damage? Trashed. We have had to deal with RME only shouts for a long time with their differences in damage being enough to be noticed but not enough to completely ignore those without them, with the change you are asking for a level 90 Emp would tower over every other weapon in the game that is not a Delve weapon or RME, making that exclusion of players even more justified and making it all the more important for people to be forced into making these weapons. I know a lot of friends that have been excluded from content when they only had an OAT GA or PA, or only a STR path weapon, these people would be even worse off once a level 90 Emp has more than 50% DMG on top of the WS and its mod stats.

You are only looking at yourself, the prices of things, not taking into account how this would effect non-RME players one bit. Now before its said I would have no idea about any of this, or I say it because I never made one, I have Almace and Excalibur with a fake Ukon and tons of experience with jobs as well as an OAT GS, I know the reaction people give when you say you have no RME even in the case of the OAT GS which is better than a Caladbolg. What you are asking for will only make it all the more important to have those weapons, and will make it once again to the point they are the only weapons worth having, except now there are the Delve weapons to go along with them, so it is down to this, do Delve, make a RME, or do not do any of the content designed for 90+ players besides Abyssea, or make your own groups so you can not be forcibly excluded due to your weapon.

How people can fail to see how these types of changes will and have already effected non-RME or casual players is astounding, and insulting. Making them stronger by back tracking them through the earlier versions will only make the problem even worse. Right now you can not expect everyone to have a 99 RME, its unrealistic, but 90? 85? People have expected that of people for more than a year now, and by making those weapons stand out above every AH option, every other trial, the Coin weapons, and any other non-RME, non-Adoulin weapon, you are only making the problem worse for people.

I know what Matsui said, and I know what he plans to do, and I still contend they should simply nerf the new weapons to be in line, if you want to boost RMEs a bit more, do it, but unless they do something about every other weapon in the game the balance of the game was just massively upset and for now it looks like it is going to remain that way. If you do not like that RMEs under 99 are going to become much weaker, think of those people who made Fire trial weapons, OAT weapons, TP bonus weapons, spent thousands of kills in VW for Pulse weapons, all of those R/EX weapons like yours that are all now in the same exact position, you are not alone, and in fact, by trying to get your weapon boosted you are making all of their weapons even worse, because the average damage on a weapon expected of someone will rise significantly.

[RushLynx]

I spent an unusual amount of time getting a single item, and now I'm upset because I never finished it... because, even though I knew exactly what the item's stats were when I made it, I'm upset now because those who finished it got something new. I'm still perfectly capable of doing the exact same thing the others did to finish the item, but I don't want to. Therefore, I demand that you give me new things too, because that seems fair to me.

[Sephiran]

Well that's honesty a silly question too, does this make any sense?

I hate the large gap in damage it seems like its here to stay.
Not if people speak up and kindly request that SE consider that people who don't have 99's will be left in the dust.

[Demon6324236]

We had to have a large community uproar with many people quitting before they went back to reevaluate their plans on RME weapons, I doubt asking them nicely to help out those less fortunate players is going to work. Remember, Matsui thinks just because he asked we have hardcore EG players inviting casual lesser geared players, that they will actually do it, which is insane.

[Sephiran]

We had to have a large community uproar with many people quitting before they went back to reevaluate their plans on RME weapons, I doubt asking them nicely to help out those less fortunate players is going to work. Remember, Matsui thinks just because he asked we have hardcore EG players inviting casual lesser geared players, that they will actually do it, which is insane.

True, but can we both agree that non-99 weapons should get at least some boost? Even if it puts them out in the middle of no-man's land (neither top notch Delve weapons nor content level 99), I would still be grateful. I'll be building an Excalibur soon to rectify this problem (actually has more to do with me wanting to have all the reasonable weapons for the job I play exclusively).

[Demon6324236]

I agree and disagree, my opinion is not that they should not change these weapons or anything like that, its that the new items should not have been added and the DMG balance should never have been upset in the first place. So while I agree they should give them a boost, I disagree that anything should get a boost at all, I think they should just get nerfed to reasonable levels.

[Sephiran]

I think they should just get nerfed to reasonable levels.

While you have a good point, the majority of playerbase doesn't take kindly to nerfing things. Sadly, that would be how you would fix this situation. I really think that more thought should have gone into the might of these weapons; however, a nerf will anger too many people. It's also likely that the devs want to help us combat the level differences of enemies in Adoulin. Then again, I already said that shielding and other defensive skills need fixing in another thread. It does come down to a matter of balance and can be fixed in a variety of ways.

I know I'll get flamed for this, but a nerf may be very well be in order. The reason being that Voidwatch weapons will also be obsoleted along with many other great pieces.

[Demon6324236]

I know I'll get flamed for this, but a nerf may be very well be in order. The reason being that Voidwatch weapons will also be obsoleted along with many other great pieces.Exactly, I mean I agree, if they will do nothing to reverse this mistake then they should boost the other weapons, but in that case in all honesty I do not want them to boost just a few, but all of the weapons, which I know is unreasonable, but without boosting them all you are damning every weapon which is not boosted but takes any real amount of effort, to being worthless. So like I said, I agree they need boosted, but at the same time, I wish the new ones were just nerfed because it would have a more wide spread effect on repairing balance in this games weapons, either one solves the problem, just one only effects some weapons, and the other would fix them all, which is preferred. I think you seem to get my reasoning though so no real need to explain further, just want people to understand if they read all this why it is destructive that this change in DMG is allowed to remain.

[BigPapaBlueJay]

Lv90 weapons have been garbage for quite some time; there is no need to change them. If players want to improve their damage, then do so before complaining.

Getting a Lv99 Empyrean, Relic or Mythic isn't terribly difficult, it just requires the effort you are squandering to complain.

[Riggs]

the way i see it the effort / cost to upgrade from 95 to 99 is massive, so after spending 150 mil to get a relic we are also supposed to spend another 75 mil to get it from 95 to 99 so se can let us upgrade it to be an average weapon??? the way i see it se have made every weapon 95 or lower worthless

[Demon6324236]

The way i see it se have made every weapon 95 or lower worthlessNo matter what they do to any level of RME, that is going to be the case.

[Chimerawizard]

The way I see it. They wanted to make the game difficult without it being complete KILL IT BEFORE YOU DIE.
They added weapons that were off the charts so fights could still be done quickly on repeat but would take close to the max time to do it the first time. They added armor with insane DEF compared to previous equips and for some jobs, really nice stats.

I know this is probably unpopular, but it is kind of needed if they want to rejuvenate the game and not just continue giving sidegrades endlessly. (they should have forseen the problems their new weapons would cause and created a path for enhancement at the same time they released the new weapons)

[Demon6324236]

rejuvenate the gameThey rejuvenated the game, and at the same time killed all of the content.

[Chimerawizard]

not what they actually did, what all this is supposed to do for the game from here on out.
SE does everything amazingly well until implimentation. then ... ya

[Minikom]

i like the idea about boosting empyrean weapons a bit, honestly they were created to casual players, ppl can spend 1 or 2 hours farming and camping Nms for this but i think just the 90 version should get Boost, if ppl comparate Relic and empyrean weapons about currency quantity and prices and HMP and cinders, you will find out supply on HNM, dross and cinders arent too good as dynamis currency, even if you comparate aleandrites/HNMS you will find there is more supplies for alex, ppl do salvage more often now dynamis currency dropping on price, around 5 each on my server, alex are 11k, and if you find HNM, 80k-100k, cinders going up for 2m each atm and dross 500k, SE just need give more incentives to ppl about VWs, atm is just place where empyrean items upgrade come and VW is dead now.

Yes i like the idea about boosting lv 90 weapons but this could cause problems when trading HMP for stage 95 or dross/cinders when doing 99 on ToM.

[Lotto]

It's like asking to buff lv75 relics because you're too lazy to make the next trials.
Empyrean 90 (not even talking about 85s) are easy to obtain and that's why most of the people stopped there but it is not a "finished" weapon. Don't blame SE if YOU didn't decide to finish your weapons completely.

PS: Most of the empyreans 85 already sucked at 99 before the release of Adoulin.

[Mirabelle]

I'd just ask for a better way to get HMP's. VW is dead. Haven't seen a shout in a couple weeks.
Unlike a relic, where you can solo and low man most everything up to ADL, there is no way to get to 95 low manning an empyrean. I guess you could sell currency, but I suspect relic upgraders will stop when they see the delve weapons and time involved. So that market will likely crash soon too.

I need 3000 HMP's for my two main emps. And likely the currency market and others will die and the new expansion doesn't really have a huge cash market unless you count selling shards as a good way to make money lol.

[Babekeke]

I'd just ask for a better way to get HMP's. VW is dead. Haven't seen a shout in a couple weeks.

If SE upgraded the 90 versions of empys, VW would most certainly be dead. Not upgrading them is just about the only thing keeping VW alive right now.

[Jerbob]

In my opinion, the argument can be summed up with two statements and their outcomes.

Level 99 R/E/M holders: "I spent a significant amount of time creating a weapon. When I created it, I knew it would lie somewhere on a contiuum of weapon power - in my case, at the top. Delve weapons have made my weapon useless. I have therefore wasted my time. I would like this to be fixed."

Result: lv. 99 R/E/M proposed upgrades, which will require me to complete an as-of-yet unspecified task to restore my weapon to usefulness.

Lower level R/E/M holders: "I spent a significant amount of time creating a weapon. When I created it, I knew it would lie somewhere on a contiuum of weapon power - in my case, close to (but not at) the top. Delve weapons have made my weapon useless. I have therefore wasted my time. I would like this to be fixed."

Result: I must make a very significant expenditure of time and money before completing the same as-of-yet unspecified task to create a more powerful weapon. There is no option to restore my weapon to its old level of usefulness, which was my original requirement.

The compaints made by level 99 R/E/M holders can just as legitimately be made by those that hold lower tier weapons. No-one wants to lose the work they put into their weapons, which in all cases is significant - just to varying degrees. I think denying <lv99 weapon users the ability to restore their weapons to their original level of usefulness is simply unjustifiable. They made their <lv99 weapon knowing what they would get - something good, but not exceptional. SE has taken that away from them, and they have a right to want their weapon restored.

Weapon users with <lv99 weapons wouldn't get anything "free" from this adjustment - at least not anything more than lv99 weapon users will. They will still end up with an inferior weapon. However, they will end up with a weapon that is "as inferior" as they originally intended - which is the only reasonable outcome.

As for problems like "but level 80 players will have super-powerful weapons that outclass all others at level 80", just bash a latent effect for DMG on the weapon to activate at a more appropriate level. It's not difficult to find solutions to these issues.

[Yinnyth]

It's amazing to me how many people feel like SE gave them a bait and switch. I run a Dynamis linkshell, and I've run it since way back in the old days. 2 days a week, every week for the past 6+ years, we gather up and work towards completing relic weapons for people. If one of my members complained that level 75 claustrum should be boosted to be competitive with the new staves, I would have to smack them and tell them "The game is moving on. :cool: Deal with it."

I honestly think its ridiculous that SE is going to update 99 RMEs even though I own a few myself and have helped in the creation of dozens more. It's little more than a tiny bit of appeasement to the players who have already quit. They're going to receive a one-time boost, then they're going to be left in the dust again. Asking for 75-95 weapons to be boosted is double-lazy. Too lazy to complete the original trials, too lazy to get new weapons from SoA.

[Return1]

In my opinion, the argument can be summed up with two statements and their outcomes.

Level 99 R/E/M holders: "I spent a significant amount of time creating a weapon. When I created it, I knew it would lie somewhere on a contiuum of weapon power - in my case, at the top. Delve weapons have made my weapon useless. I have therefore wasted my time. I would like this to be fixed."

Result: lv. 99 R/E/M proposed upgrades, which will require me to complete an as-of-yet unspecified task to restore my weapon to usefulness.

Lower level R/E/M holders: "I spent a significant amount of time creating a weapon. When I created it, I knew it would lie somewhere on a contiuum of weapon power - in my case, close to (but not at) the top. Delve weapons have made my weapon useless. I have therefore wasted my time. I would like this to be fixed."

Result: I must make a very significant expenditure of time and money before completing the same as-of-yet unspecified task to create a more powerful weapon. There is no option to restore my weapon to its old level of usefulness, which was my original requirement.

The compaints made by level 99 R/E/M holders can just as legitimately be made by those that hold lower tier weapons. No-one wants to lose the work they put into their weapons, which in all cases is significant - just to varying degrees. I think denying <lv99 weapon users the ability to restore their weapons to their original level of usefulness is simply unjustifiable. They made their <lv99 weapon knowing what they would get - something good, but not exceptional. SE has taken that away from them, and they have a right to want their weapon restored.

Weapon users with <lv99 weapons wouldn't get anything "free" from this adjustment - at least not anything more than lv99 weapon users will. They will still end up with an inferior weapon. However, they will end up with a weapon that is "as inferior" as they originally intended - which is the only reasonable outcome.

As for problems like "but level 80 players will have super-powerful weapons that outclass all others at level 80", just bash a latent effect for DMG on the weapon to activate at a more appropriate level. It's not difficult to find solutions to these issues.

Your logic is horribly flawed. First off, 99REM holders will have to do some trial(s) to upgrade their 99s damage, they aren't just being handed a crapton of damage. 95 and below is an INCOMPLETE WEAPON. Finish your goddamned weapon then complain about it being bad. You don't build a bike without a chain then complain that bikes suck because yours doesn't go as fast as someone that put a f*cking chain on theirs.

Why shouldn't you have to do what I, and thousands of others, have done several times to be competitive with me/us?


Also saying it's stupid for SE to update REMs is the words of a true fool. REMs were offered as the cream of the crop and talk a lot longer to obtain than any typical weapon. In a game like FFXI there's supposed to by an effort to reward ratio. New adoulin weapons for the most part are easy as hell to obtain. The delve bosses are already being curb stomped by the complex formula of THROW MORE RANGERS AT IT GUYS.

Those weapons' effort values don't even warrant them being nearly as good as REM weapons. Each 75 relic made requires more man hours to make than any single delve boss drop, and 99ing a Relic takes more than twice that effort on my server. A 99 relic takes over 100% more effort to obtain than a delve weapon, and you think it's lazy to ask for an update to them? GTFO.

[Yinnyth]

We're in vertical progression mode. If we want to drag our RMEs with us from now until the end of time, RMEs are going to require an update every time SE releases the next step up. If we do that, half of SE's development budget is going to be invested into making sure RMEs stay astride the new gear. We complain that updates lack compelling new content, and then we demand that they spend their resources on making sure nothing changes in the game. Doomcriers write their own self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Jerbob]

Please read my post fully before criticising it.

I mentioned and recognised (twice) that people would have to perform some sort of (as of yet unknown) trial to upgrade their weapons. I am fully aware that it's not just "free extra damage" or similar.

I never stated that I thought that the R/E/M holders' requests to bring their weapons up to "delve potency" were wrong - I do, in fact, agree with said requests and respect the effort people put into these weapons. I merely compared such requests to those made by incomplete weapon holders, who also don't wish for their weapon to become completely worthless. Had I requested that all R/E/M (regardless of level) be automatically upgraded to the same level, my logic would have been flawed. A broad upgrade to all levels of weapons resulting in a proportional increase in potency is, however, simply a reflection of the status quo - incomplete weapons are currently useful tools that are similar to, but do not rival, complete weapons. This would not change. Relative potency would remain as it is now.

Simply put, your weapon would remain better - as befits the extra effort you put into it. Incomplete weapons would remain just as inferior to yours as they are now. But they would still be usable, as befits the effort their owners put into making them. Whether that amount of effort is different to yours is immaterial, so long as the final potency of the item is relative.

[Babekeke]

Asking for 75-95 weapons to be boosted is double-lazy. Too lazy to complete the original trials, too lazy to get new weapons from SoA.

Spoken like a true close-minded idiot. Most people who made a level 90 empy or 95 relic but didn't take it further, have not done so because they simply don't have the time to invest into such a thing.

I'll get flamed for bringing this up, but the fact is it's true, plain and simple: People who have full-time jobs and families or friends that they like to spend time on can have significantly less time to put into upgrading their weapons. Sure, you'll come back with "if you don't have the time, then don't play an MMORPG" whilst completely failing to realise that many people are very happy with playing just a couple of days a week, or only a couple of hours a day.

Good for all those that don't work, don't socialise, or maybe just don't sleep. You can invest enough time to do salvage, dynamis and limbus every day, and spend the rest of your time farming plasm to make gil and complete a 99 empy or relic in a couple of weeks. Other people are content to be second best whilst still participate in events with friends that don't care if it takes a little longer to do than the most elite groups


Your logic is horribly flawed. First off, 99REM holders will have to do some trial(s) to upgrade their 99s damage, they aren't just being handed a crapton of damage. 95 and below is an INCOMPLETE WEAPON. Finish your goddamned weapon then complain about it being bad. You don't build a bike without a chain then complain that bikes suck because yours doesn't go as fast as someone that put a f*cking chain on theirs.

See above.


Why shouldn't you have to do what I, and thousands of others, have done several times to be competitive with me/us?

You obviously didn't read what he said:


When I created it, I knew it would lie somewhere on a continuum of weapon power - in my case, close to (but not at) the top.

He's not asking to be competitive with you/them (unless you/them gear/play much worse than him), he's just asking to be closer, relative to the amount of work that he and others have put in.

It may be that the people with level 90 empys/95 relics are working towards making the 99 versions, but with the amount of time that they can put into doing so, it will take many months to reach 99. This means for them that their weapon that was 'acceptable' for most end-game content has all-of-a-sudden become (in some cases) out-classed by AH weapons, and completely outclassed by all of the new r/e weapons.

I can see it from both sides of the coin, but I think that enabling non-99 weapons to be upgraded would be shooting themselves in the foot, as if people can get a better weapon without doing the plates/rift/marrows, then they will - so noone will bother farming the items and the price will shoot right up, making people even less likely to want to upgrade.

[Riggs]

We're in vertical progression mode. If we want to drag our RMEs with us from now until the end of time, RMEs are going to require an update every time SE releases the next step up. If we do that, half of SE's development budget is going to be invested into making sure RMEs stay astride the new gear. We complain that updates lack compelling new content, and then we demand that they spend their resources on making sure nothing changes in the game. Doomcriers write their own self-fulfilling prophecy.

your damn right we want our RME's to stay the best weapons, and we want more, reduce the cost to upgrade from 95 to 99 as and trial to increase the level of 99's is just not worth the 95 to 99 expense unless they are boosted to be the best weapons again

[Demon6324236]

If we want to drag our RMEs with us from now until the end of time, RMEs are going to require an update every time SE releases the next step up.From the time 99 was released till Adoulin was released the RME99s were the top of the food chain, many pieces of content were added in that time, all of it required no change to RME99s, only when Adoulin was added and surpassed them not by a small bit but almost double their DMG did it become any sort of problem. I assure you if I went through all of school with great grades, attended collage, and got a job making half of the money someone who dropped out of High School was making, I would be fairly pissed, and that is basically what not changing the weapons would have been like, someone put a ton of time and effort into their work only to get stuck with half of the reward someone else was going to get from doing not anywhere near the same amount of work, and even if you could obtain the same, its still throwing out all of that work you did previously.

Its not really right to say that they have to update RME99s every time a new update is out, simply do not add weapons with double the damage of everything else in the entire game and things will be fine, once stupid things like that are done there will always, always, always be problems...

[Yinnyth]

If you follow the logic of "The power of a weapon should reflect the amount of effort it requires to obtain said weapon" and you wish to create vertical progression, you have 4 primary options:

1. Abandon the old return on investment curve, wipe the slate clean and start again (what they're attempting to do).

2. Make new weapons abide by the current return on investment curve so delve weapons require billions of plasm before they're stronger than 99 RMEs.

3. Drag RMEs along for the ride and give the RMEs an update every time the next level of gear is released.

4. Revise the old return on investment curve so 99 RMEs are significantly easier to obtain.


Option 3 seems to be what most RME holders (even the level 80 RME holders now, seemingly) are asking for. But forcing the dev team to keep this anchor tied around them will slow down all other content from being released and keep the game from changing much at all.

Now this is all assuming that we're sold on vertical progression at all, which appears to be what most people are actually taking issue with.

[Demon6324236]

3. Drag RMEs along for the ride and give the RMEs an update every time the next level of gear is released.

Option 3 seems to be what most RME holders (even the level 80 RME holders now, seemingly) are asking for. But forcing the dev team to keep this anchor tied around them will slow down all other content from being released and keep the game from changing much at all.Really? I just explained, we had a long time period where RME99s were fine, it was only when they decided it was a good idea to double the DMG on weapons that a problem was created. You say they have to updated them every time a new level of gear is released, its not quite accurate, its when new levels of weapons are released, and only when they are so vastly superior to what we currently have, that it becomes a problem. Skirmish weapons had a few out matching Relics, not all, but some with +2 stones were doing the job, were people in an uproar then? Not really, some complained, but it was only a few here and there by compare, the weapons were ok. Delve made the Skirmish update look like nothing, the gap between weapons expanded exponentially and there was of course an uproar because everything in the game including the Skirmish gear was instantly outclassed, not by a bit, or by an acceptable amount, but rather by large amount that is so large it completely crushes any other options. Skirmish weapons were ok even with their higher DMG because RMEs have more than simply DMG going for them, more than that which makes them special, but Delve weapons can disregard that as well because their DMG is that overwhelming.

You make it sound as though updating the RME99s is going to be a constant chore that happens with every other update, that could be true, if they make weapons jump in power again and again each update. If they do that, I doubt people will continue to play this game, it would be the stupidest choice they could make right now, so I doubt they would do that, instead they will improve gear, we will get new weapons with the other Delve areas as they are released as well as the other Fractures, WK Reives, and so on. The update is probably the last one or second to last one that RMEs will ever see, which is good, they should stay where they are after this next update, but only so long as SE does not choose to throw balance out the window and go crazy with numbers once again.

[Return1]

A large majority hate vertical progression because it goes against why we like FFXI. If we wanted vertical progression on this scale we would be playing WOW. If we wanted the slate wiped clean every couple months, we'd play a Diablo ladder.

Also vertical progression like this KILLS all the old content. You really think that it's a good idea to obsolete thousands of hours of content so you can participate in the few hours/weeks worth of content they release each patch? It's stupid.

Extending REM life adds more viable content to do than just Delve.

And it really shouldn't take much more than one guy in a basement to upgrade the REMs. Add some ACC/ATK, and bring the base DMG up to par, congratulations you've f*cking succeeded.


He's not asking to be competitive with you/them (unless you/them gear/play much worse than him), he's just asking to be closer, relative to the amount of work that he and others have put in.

You want gear relative to the amount of work? You already have it. A 95Relic or 85-90 Empyrean weapon is literally less than or equal to half the work of 99'ing it.

Half the work, half the weapon. It's pretty fitting.

[Chimerawizard]

Equipment strength is dependent on the level of the content you need to challenge in order to obtain the equipment, not the level in which it can be equipped. With the gear that is released in Adoulin from here on out, they can be equipped at level 99; however, instead of considering these to be level 99 pieces of equipment, it would be better for you to think of their level in terms of the content level (for example, level 110 or level 120).
So, could we just assume that the boost added to RME is based on it being made for content level 120?
And that a lvl 75 RME was made for level 75 content?
and that a lvl 90/95 RME was designed for level 90/95 content?

Still have issues, keep crying.

It's not like they downgraded the weapons, they just made new ones that outclassed the old ones. They did this before with abyssea adding weapons that totally outclassed what was then the best of the best, Relic weapons. Trials were added at the same time (forethought) to RM to make sure they would always be relevent and at the top tier of weapons, and easily obtainable weapons would outclass a 'base' lv75 finished RM.

[Babekeke]

You want gear relative to the amount of work? You already have it. A 95Relic or 85-90 Empyrean weapon is literally less than or equal to half the work of 99'ing it.

Half the work, half the weapon. It's pretty fitting.

Farming the NMs to get to level 90 empy is about 99% of the time it takes to get your weapon to 99 if you can afford to buy all your plates and rift. I'm not saying they should be 99% of the weapon, but if a level 85 empy was given an extra 10% damage, level 90 20%, 95 30% and 99 40% to their current values, I think everyone would be happy.

Let's take Caladbolg as an example:

85= 112 > 123
90= 120 > 142
95= 132 > 171
99= 142 > 198

Compared to Bereaver= 209 dmg

As you'll see, in this proposition, level 90 would become the equivalent of what level 99 currently is; and that's in no way ground-breaking, or people wouldn't be complaining that their 99s are already no good.

[Demon6324236]

You want gear relative to the amount of work? You already have it. A 95Relic or 85-90 Empyrean weapon is literally less than or equal to half the work of 99'ing it.For Emps I may agree, for Relics, not even close... Half the work? Lets go by old standard prices, meaning pre-Adoulin, AC was at around 7k average on Phoenix, now each Relic needs about 18k AC to complete it. With that math a Relic was nearly 125 Million gil, on the other hand look at Marrows, they were at roughly 15 Mil each, so 5 of them would be a total of around 75 Million gil. So really by making a Relic you are doing almost 2/3rds of the work, now when you factor in the WS kill trials which take hours to do and are painfully slow, I am sure we can all agree that getting a 95 Relic is at very least 2/3rds of the work. So 2/3rds of the work deserve 2/3rds of the power right? Seems to me that means they would need at least some form of boost top get that high.

[Aezelas]

You want gear relative to the amount of work? You already have it. A 95Relic or 85-90 Empyrean weapon is literally less than or equal to half the work of 99'ing it.

Half the work, half the weapon. It's pretty fitting.

The current gap doesn't make 85-90 empy half the 99 one and it didn't bother anyone so far, did it?
I don't get why a 99 r/m/e owner would mind about 85-95 weapons getting a boost.

Babekeke made an interesting proposition the devs should consider. 99 weapons would still get a bigger boost.
Not everyone has the money to build a 99 weapon, and getting a 85/90 empy is already an achievement for some of us.
Those are unique weapons, even unfinished, and will become totally useless without adjustment.
I'd rather like delve weapons and content to be nerfed, but the r/m/e boost is what's going to happen, and 85-95 should be included imo.

[xiozen]

/begin rant


After reading the proposed adjustments and finding out that only the 99-iterations of RME's will be boosted to compete viably with the new Delve weapons, I must say I'm a little worried.

Why???? The weapon isn't complete... so try completing the R/E/M 1st... then complain.


These weapons take time to get and not everyone can take them to 99 (especially in the case of empyrean weapons).

"Not everyone can take them to 99..."... ... ... are we playing the same game... maybe your playing something completely different... like FFXIV that doesn't have Heavy Metal Plates or Riftcinders or something like that... cause the last time I looked, all of the items were available to anyone that paid the FFXI subscription and had the necessary expansion packs installed... so I'm not quite certain of your statement there... Unless you mean, "I'm just a little lazy and don't wanna work that hard....like those that did it... so make it easier for me..."???


So if one has a level 85 or 90 empyrean, it's just gonna be the end of the line for us? Hmm, not that I know of.. last I checked, there's a level 95 and level 99 and even a +1 version of the level 99 you can aspire too, assuming you wanted to work towards it... its possible you know... so, its definitely NOT the end of the line... unless YOU WANT IT TO BE!... there I said it.


I wield an Almace-90 and I love the thing.
You're not taking it to level 95 or 99, so you can't love it that much... just sayin'.


Also, if weapons that are 95 and below are not to receive this boost, will there be plans to make it easier to upgrade them?

Ahhhhh now we get to real point of this POST... in short... NO, STOP BEING LAZY... do the TRIALS that have been SETUP that A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE A 99 DID and are probably CONTINUING TO DO!!!! /sigh... These types of posts irritate the crap outta me... I actually hope a dev responds to this.. I'd love to get their reaction... oh wait, they did... they said ONLY THE LEVEL 99 WEAPONS ARE GETTING REVAMPED... a day late and a byte short.

/end rant.

[xiozen]

Level 99 R/E/M holders: "I spent a significant amount of time creating a weapon. When I created it, I knew it would lie somewhere on a contiuum of weapon power - in my case, at the top. Delve weapons have made my weapon useless. I have therefore wasted my time. I would like this to be fixed."

I like your post, but this statement I "believe" isn't entirely what may happen... Matsui said, "revamp" the definition of revamp is =

/rēˈvamp/
Verb
Give new and improved form, structure, or appearance to: "revamp her image".
Noun
An act of improving the form, structure, or appearance of something.

...and the word revamp is synonymous with alter, make over, modify, recast, redo, refashion, remake, remodel, change, revise, rework, vary... so in effect, short of introducing a patch/update that will change the stats of the level 99 R/M/Es... anything else requiring any work... keep in mind, we already did the work... SE should only be making the needed adjustments.

[xiozen]

Your logic is horribly flawed. First off, 99REM holders will have to do some trial(s) to upgrade their 99s damage, they aren't just being handed a crapton of damage.

I honestly think that's exactly what's going to happen... R/M/E holders have already finished the trials; the producer has already said they do not intend to increase the weapons like the method previously used (TotM), he repeatedly used the word "revamp"--a revamp is not your typical upgrade... revamp literally means to "re-do" or "do-over"...so yea, I truly believe the Devs intend to hand the R/M/E's a crapton of damage.

[Aezelas]

I honestly think that's exactly what's going to happen... R/M/E holders have already finished the trials; the producer has already said they do not intend to increase the weapons like the method previously used (TotM), he repeatedly used the word "revamp"--a revamp is not your typical upgrade... revamp literally means to "re-do" or "do-over"...so yea, I truly believe the Devs intend to hand the R/M/E's a crapton of damage.

They clearly said they won't bring a progressive upgrade for e/r/m, and gave ToM as reference.
I think we have to understand it will be the last upgrade they'll bring for e/r/m, and only because of e/r/m owners' anger.
It's sort of an excuse to players for that huge delve release mistake.

What i understood is that they do not intend to make e/r/m the top weapons forever.
This improvised boost is for them a way to get rid of players anger (and ragequitting); they want us to accept there will be better weapons and they want us to work on them.

This was their intention with delve release, but it was too sudden, too soon, and they didn't expect players reaction.
I think they'll still be going that way.

[Return1]

People will always be mad when a weapon that's meant to be worth so much and requires so much work is thrown away for anything.

Not only that but killing so many hours of content that will keep players giving them money? It's stupid from a business stand point, but I guess stupid decisions are why SE is losing so much money.

[Yinnyth]

Really? I just explained, we had a long time period where RME99s were fine, it was only when they decided it was a good idea to double the DMG on weapons that a problem was created. You say they have to updated them every time a new level of gear is released, its not quite accurate, its when new levels of weapons are released, and only when they are so vastly superior to what we currently have, that it becomes a problem.
I say that's one of the primary options if you accept vertical progression as the direction the game should be taking. Relics and Mythics stayed (mostly) on top of the game up until they raised the level cap. When the level cap was raised, we had vertical progression, but it was finite and easy to plan out. The devs probably assumed like we did that after level 99, horizontal progression would resume.

But to have vertical progression continue into the unforseen future, suddenly the burden of making sure that everything which requires a significant investment of time gets to keep pace with everything else becomes increasingly unbearable. Much like how the closer an object gets to reaching light speed, the more energy it takes to accelerate that object any further, FFXI will continue to pick up more and more items in the game like RMEs... things it simply cannot ditch and must continue adding updates specifically for them until it gets to a point where nothing new can be added.

That being said, this is only if you accept vertical growth as the new law of the land. If you completely deny it as the direction the game should be taking, perhaps you should be striking at the core of the matter instead of the side-effects. (And at this point, I mean "you" in a general sense, not just you specifically, Demon).

Skirmish weapons had a few out matching Relics, not all, but some with +2 stones were doing the job, were people in an uproar then? Not really, some complained, but it was only a few here and there by compare, the weapons were ok.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31485-New-weapons-with-higher-base-damage-then-relics

849 replies. This doesn't really prove anything, just pointing out that there were plenty of complaints before delve entered the scene.


You make it sound as though updating the RME99s is going to be a constant chore that happens with every other update, that could be true, if they make weapons jump in power again and again each update. If they do that, I doubt people will continue to play this game, it would be the stupidest choice they could make right now, so I doubt they would do that, instead they will improve gear, we will get new weapons with the other Delve areas as they are released as well as the other Fractures, WK Reives, and so on. The update is probably the last one or second to last one that RMEs will ever see, which is good, they should stay where they are after this next update, but only so long as SE does not choose to throw balance out the window and go crazy with numbers once again.

They seem to intend to "go crazy with the numbers once again." For right now, they're focusing on patching some things up and making the content level increase a little more steady, but:


With the release of the end of April version update, we've implemented Delve and have completed the battle content that was planned for the launch of Seekers of Adoulin.

I feel that the flow of content that we planned where players would take on higher tiers of content (content level) by progressing in stages is not going as smoothly as we'd like.

Specifically, I would like to adjust the fact that it's difficult to do colonization reives and lair reives in small numbers, as well as the fact that it is difficult to start Skirmish.

For the time being, Delve (the boss battle) has been set as the highest content level.

With this current state, I feel priorities should be placed on implementing and adjusting content for low-man or soloing more than adding further higher tier content, and I would like to work hard while heading in this direction so that a larger amount of players can enjoy the game.


For the time being. But when they move past the delve bosses and release higher content levels, complaints about RMEs getting outclassed will once again flare up and we'll go through this whole song and dance again and again and again.

[Numquam]

lol...stop being lazy...just farm gil or get a good linkshell and finish your weapon. Why do you think you DESERVE to have SE reward your laziness?

[Wyrmnus]

^Replies like this seriously just make me was to throw up in anger. Selfish people.. honestly.

[Zagen]

^Replies like this seriously just make me was to throw up in anger. Selfish people.. honestly.
Pot calling the kettle black.

[Wyrmnus]

How so? How am I being Selfish? I'm merely just annoyed at that kind of response considering the topic. What's wrong with balancing out the R/M/E Stages up to 99 so that they make sense? Are Elitist players that afraid of being potentially knocked off their high horses?

[Zagen]

How so? How am I being Selfish? I'm merely just annoyed at that kind of response considering the topic. What's wrong with balancing out the R/M/E Stages up to 99 so that they make sense? Are Elitist players that afraid of being potentially knocked off their high horses?

Didn't think I actually had to explain it...

You're calling people with 99s selfish because they don't want previous versions updated.
You're being selfish because you don't want to put the same amount of effort as they did and still want to have a weapon close to their 99 weapon.

[Wyrmnus]

I still don't see the problem with proper balancing though.

[Zagen]

I still don't see the problem with proper balancing though.
How is a level 95 weapon being balanced for level 99 content 'proper'?

[Wyrmnus]

I didn't say make a 95 Weapon practically the same as the 99 stage. I said to make the base damage levels of the stages increased so that it's a... sensible looking increase per stage up to the final 99 stage. Oh... Nevermind.

[Demon6324236]

While I think they do deserve an update, I also know why SE will not do it. So far as Matsui has said, we may not be going up by visible levels but we are progressing through pseudo-levels within level 99, as though it were 99.01 or 99.02, as someone else said these RME99 upgrades are probably somewhere around the level 120 region, meaning 99.21 and since it is that way they are in fact a level upgrade, rather than simply an upgrade from nothing. Even if they simply change the stats, the weapon in their eyes is more so a level 120 item than a level 99 item, so changing a level 90 item to fit is putting it at like level 110 level, or 105 level, far beyond where it is meant to be.

[Bstmode]

NO, STOP BEING LAZY... do the TRIALS that have been SETUP that A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE A 99 DID and are probably CONTINUING TO DO!!!!
I lol'd at the bolded. Not sure where your info is from, but there are not 'a lot of people that have a 99'. Would have to wait and check the most current Vana'diel census, but I'm almost certain that the number of people who have a 99 empyrean complete is at most a few percent of the population. Which brings me to my point...

Many people stopped building these weapons past 85/90 because they had still achieved an increased gain in their character's ability compared to alternatives. Players would start trials knowing that even if they stopped at 85/90, they would still achieve significant gains. That was kind of the point of magian trials and it's a lot how things work in real life. You want something, you work to get it. You want something nicer, you work a little harder.

IRL logic:
I work my 40 hrs a week and I can afford to make payments on my Camry. I'm happy with my current situation because it allows me to still have some free time to do things I like to do. I could totally burn myself out and work 12 hrs everyday to afford a Benz, but the fact that I am comfortable where I am does NOT make me lazy. Earn what you own.

That being said, I feel that the trials are fair. I have no beef with plates taking a larger investment for only a slight gain in comparison to previous trials. However, I don't see the harm in scaling up all of the weapons so that the original spirit and intent of magian trials, the idea of earning a weapon based on your on personal level of commitment, is still respected.

[xiozen]

I admit, I got emotional in my response, so I concur that my use of "a lot of people" is somewhat over the top and perhaps unrealistic; but my point was made. As far as your quote:


However, I don't see the harm in scaling up all of the weapons so that the original spirit and intent of magian trials, the idea of earning a weapon based on your on personal level of commitment, is still respected.

Since we both probably do not work for the development team, we won't understand their logic for not having already scaled certain weapons in the game prior to or even after release of the SoA content... perhaps this requires addressing... I don't know.

[Babekeke]

This still annoys me how short-sighted people can be, with their references to anyone who has not finished their r/m/e to 99 must be lazy.

For some people, RL>FFXI.

Not to mention, some people actually made 10 empys, but only took a couple of them to 99. Are they lazy??? Really!?!?

[Bstmode]

I admit, I got emotional in my response, so I concur that my use of "a lot of people" is somewhat over the top and perhaps unrealistic; but my point was made.

To put it in perspective for you... Based on the 11th vana'diel census:

There were a total of just over 65k empyrean weapons across all servers that were level 85 or higher(excluding instrument and shield). Out of those 65,000+ empyreans, a mere 550 of them were unlocked to level 99. Less than 1 out of every 100 people who unlocked an empyrean weaponskill bothered to take their weapon to what you called 'completion' at level 99.

You basically said that more than 99% of the population of FFXI is lazy because they couldn't be bothered to 'complete' their weapons. Now you're saying that perhaps that is unrealistic?

Perhaps you are the winner of the "Understatement of the Century" award...

[Zagen]

To put it in perspective for you... Based on the 11th vana'diel census:

There were a total of just over 65k empyrean weapons across all servers that were level 85 or higher(excluding instrument and shield). Out of those 65,000+ empyreans, a mere 550 of them were unlocked to level 99. Less than 1 out of every 100 people who unlocked an empyrean weaponskill bothered to take their weapon to what you called 'completion' at level 99.

You basically said that more than 99% of the population of FFXI is lazy because they couldn't be bothered to 'complete' their weapons. Now you're saying that perhaps that is unrealistic?

Perhaps you are the winner of the "Understatement of the Century" award...

My Almace and Armageddon are at 85, my Apocalypse is at 95 because I'm lazy. I have the means to obtain the items required to make them 99. Might take a while for the Emps but I can do it. Heck the 5 Umbral Marrows to 99 my Apocalypse cost 50-75 million, or in context of an event I'm currently spamming on a semi regular basis that's 167~250 Airlixir +1s being sold or 417,500-625,000 or 83-125 fracture runs averaging 5k. That doesn't even account for farming Volatile Matamata which usually ends up giving me 3 +1s and 1,500 more plasm. By not rigorously focusing on selling Airlixir +1s to fund my Apocalypse 95 to 99 I'm being lazy, at least I'm willing to admit it.

[Raksha]

This still annoys me how short-sighted people can be, with their references to anyone who has not finished their r/m/e to 99 must be lazy.

For some people, RL>FFXI.

Not to mention, some people actually made 10 empys, but only took a couple of them to 99. Are they lazy??? Really!?!?


Then your weapon that took a weekend to make is being replace by a weapon takes a weekend to make. I don't really see the problem with this.


vertical progression

You can have vertical progression without changing weapons (not that i'm advocating that. Should just continue magian trials with bayld items/ghastly stones/airlixirs)

[Kimjongil]

You can not upgrade 85 90 95 weapons because of the time it would take to rewrite all the stats for all weapons and all trials. And why would they rebalance weapons when a quest has not even been done? I rather the developers spend the time on new events or things.

Abyessa has been out for three years. If you not even made your empy to 90 in three years your sad. For most weapons it takes one weekend to two weeks. As for 95 and 99 trial. Do plazma farming, craft, or whatever.

I do have four REM's.

99 APOC, 99 empy staff, 95 rag and 85 almace. I am holding off on almace because if WoE gets unlock, I rather do the weapon skill with different sword as its main purpose is blu skill chains. Rag, I could make it, to 99 but want to wait and see as it may have no purpose to use at 99 even upgraded.

99 apoc lets me do many things. 99 empy staff if unlock weapon skill lets me nuke all day long. Even if not unlocked I can nuke on the staff and never run out of MP. So both these weapons make me happy.

Instead of them upgrading REM weapons 85-95. Please spend the time for MoT weapons. I would love those weapons to get a boost.

[Demonviper]

I recently unsubbed from FFXI myself because of the issues with R/M/E weapons, now of course I'm not posting for moral support or anything like that.. that would be stupid. I just thought I'd give my two gil: The problem with the sub 99 versions of the empy weapons not receiving a buff isn't really an issue for me, I was working on 99 anyway... what was an issue was the total destruction of the VWNM scene overnight once seekers came out, since nothing from VW is really relevant anymore, why would people spam it and provide the market with much needed HMP and riftdross? It's currently all but impossible to complete an empy weapons magian trials, at least on the server I played since there are no new items coming into the market and since VW isn't small group friendly, there's no real way around these issues currently.

For me, this rendered the game unplayable by cutting me off from any possibility of completing my long term goals. If anything I'd say making sure non-seekers content stays populated needs some attention, at least in cases were it's impossible to solo or small group those events (as obviously, things like dynamis can be done without needing outside help from other players).

[Babekeke]

Then your weapon that took a weekend to make is being replace by a weapon takes a weekend to make. I don't really see the problem with this.

Weekends must be longer where you are than where I am. 21 NMs all with a minimum respawn of 1 hour is 21 hours if you got really lucky and every NM repopped right on the 1 hour mark, and after visiting jeuno, the next NM was already up. In reality, there's always 1 NM that decides to be a b*tch and wait out 8 hours to respawn, and the rest will be an average of ~2 hours.

And some of us like to catch up on sleep over the weekends too, and you can only get lucky enough to get others to do 1 trial for you whilst you sleep.

And then there's the VNMs, minimum of 2 hours per NM, assuming that you either have friends willing to drop everything and go help you, or you're dual-boxing and the job you are on is able to DB the VNMs you need. Some are easily soloable on the right jobs, but others can be nasty. If your friends aren't available to help, or you can DB it, then you have to shout for assistance... that could be your whole weekend taken up right there.

And at last you're onto the 175 abyssea NMs, all that require KIs to pop, and if your weapon starts out in tahrongi (Chloris or Glavoid) then you could spend a full day in that 1 zone.

As for "replacing it with another weapon that took you a weekend to make", this is only true under 1 of 2 conditions:

1) You beat the required delve NMs before the depop nerf.

2) You have a decent WHM BRD COR or SCH levelled.

Otherwise, noone's inviting you to join their delve fights, and it doesn't matter how quickly you can get the plasm if you don't have the KI.

[Bstmode]

I agree with the above. If you were lucky enough to get in on it early then you could do Delve with your now gimp 'weekend weapon'. If not then you've gotta slink in on a job is required more for their utility than what they're wearing.

[Zagen]

I agree with the above. If you were lucky enough to get in on it early then you could do Delve with your now gimp 'weekend weapon'. If not then you've gotta slink in on a job is required more for their utility than what they're wearing.
Best one to "sink in" with is called Leader, best part about that job is it takes a bit of research as well as the ability to make sure people follow through with instructions and that's all it takes to make it pimp.

[Bstmode]

Best one to "sink in" with is called Leader, best part about that job is it takes a bit of research as well as the ability to make sure people follow through with instructions and that's all it takes to make it pimp.

I'll save you the trip to Merriam-Webster...

Slink - 1: to go or move stealthily or furtively (as in fear or shame)

Basically you sneak into a group on a 'safe' job knowing that if you wanted to go on a job you enjoy, you'd probably be denied because you aren't as equipped as they feel you should be. Sure you can make your own group, but the chances of people sticking around after finding out that you aren't already Delve equipped are about the same as you getting into a premade under the same circumstances.

Not saying that it's impossible, but it's much less likely and enough of an annoyance to turn people off.

[Zagen]

I'll save you the trip to Merriam-Webster...

Slink - 1: to go or move stealthily or furtively (as in fear or shame)

Basically you sneak into a group on a 'safe' job knowing that if you wanted to go on a job you enjoy, you'd probably be denied because you aren't as equipped as they feel you should be. Sure you can make your own group, but the chances of people sticking around after finding out that you aren't already Delve equipped are about the same as you getting into a premade under the same circumstances.

Not saying that it's impossible, but it's much less likely and enough of an annoyance to turn people off.

Sorry when I used "sink in" it was meant to be a play on your use of "slink in", essentially hoping it will sink in people's head that if they actually took up the leader role they'd get away with so much when talking about gear/job expectations instead of trying to sneak in.

[Duelle]

The logical thing to do is determine whether a 99 RME is the starting point for new content (as in, starter content for Adoulin assumes your DPS have a 99RME). If the answer is yes, then you need to make it less ardorous to get there, either by easing a bit on the trials or introduce something with which to leapfrog the need for RME altogether (currently there is none).

[Zagen]

The logical thing to do is determine whether a 99 RME is the starting point for new content (as in, starter content for Adoulin assumes your DPS have a 99RME). If the answer is yes, then you need to make it less ardorous to get there, either by easing a bit on the trials or introduce something with which to leapfrog the need for RME altogether (currently there is none).
With the exception of Delve Fracture Bosses I have yet to do (haven't done the bosses myself though) anything in SoA that requires R/E/M for any of the DDs. Just like before SoA they are helpful but not required.

[Bstmode]

Sorry when I used "sink in" it was meant to be a play on your use of "slink in", essentially hoping it will sink in people's head that if they actually took up the leader role they'd get away with so much when talking about gear/job expectations instead of trying to sneak in.
Way to slink past the point. When people have difficulty even being invited to participate in an event unless already geared by that event, something is wrong. It's like being asked to show ID when you're going to obtain a driver's license.

Let the irony "sink in"...

We're talking about weapons that are obtained through magian trials which are based completely on progression. You start at point A and progress through other points until you reach your destination. No skipping over or slinking through content. You start and progress until you're done.

In Delve on the other hand, you're expected to already be at your destination before you are eligible to make the trip. Now I understand that this barrier is created by the community, but SE could easily address the issue. Creating your own group doesn't remove the expectation from players that you should be overgeared for the content.

[Zagen]

Creating your own group doesn't remove the expectation from players that you should be overgeared for the content.

Do you honestly think someone who's elitist about gear that still needs KIs/plasm and hasn't been brought into a group at this point can still be a chooser over a beggar?

[Bstmode]

Do you honestly think someone who's elitist about gear that still needs KIs/plasm and hasn't been brought into a group at this point can still be a chooser over a beggar?
No, I believe all the elitists were granted what they needed before they even set foot in Delve... /facepalm

[Babekeke]

Do you honestly think someone who's elitist about gear that still needs KIs/plasm and hasn't been brought into a group at this point can still be a chooser over a beggar?

I think this is beyond the point. If I went into a Delve NM ally and realised the leader was on SAM and using level 90 Empy for example, I'd probably only give him 5 mins to finish the alliance, and I'd certainly be keeping an eye out for another ally forming.

This is not because I'm 'elitist', far from it, but the NMs are difficult, pure and simple. It's a waste of everyone's time to go with a group that can't beat the NM.

@Duelle: Many things in SoA can be done without even having 99 r/m/e. Reives for certain, and plasm farming. Wildskeeper Reives and Skirmish, I'm not too sure about as I haven't bothered with them myself yet. Delve NMs however are tiered above r/m/e 99.

Edit: also, I think Duelle might have it right when he said 'ease up on the trials'. When they first announced 1500 HMP, many of us thought that it would eventually be reduced. Now seems like the ideal time, especially since they will not be increasing the power of non-99 r/m/e, no matter what anyone would like.

[Radd]

I don't know if this has been said, but since it is apparent that 75-95 R/M/E are going to be basically old content, and the newer weapons are relatively "easy" to get, they might want to lower the trial redundancy on said weapons. If they aren't top tier unless you grind it for an upwards of 4-6 months for the majority of players, and remember this is just to be able to contribute to combat these days. That's insane and poor game design. I see no reason why the trials below the 99 have to be so tedious anymore.

That would be one major way of fixing the problem. Delve weapons might be even outclassed in another update in the near future, making this R/M/E discussion flare up with even more whining. Might as well make the trials easier at this point for everyone since it's obvious they won't be as relevant anymore. This would really remove the bottleneck for the shield/harp trials as well, as ever since the cruor conversion nerf, people have just been selling these pops for money, making it a pain just to even attempt this consistently.

Just my two cents.

[Zagen]

I think this is beyond the point. If I went into a Delve NM ally and realised the leader was on SAM and using level 90 Empy for example, I'd probably only give him 5 mins to finish the alliance, and I'd certainly be keeping an eye out for another ally forming.

This is not because I'm 'elitist', far from it, but the NMs are difficult, pure and simple. It's a waste of everyone's time to go with a group that can't beat the NM.

If you think going with a Leader who has Masa 90 SAM and can't fill an alliance in 5 minutes to an event that doesn't require epic gear to beat I don't know how you think that's not elitist. Considering at this point the gimmicks are known and none of those gimmicks require X gear beyond what I'd consider decent/good gear (AF/Relic/Emp armor, TP set, WS set, anything else is a bonus)

Grasshopper - Don't WS and your chances of losing are almost 0 with decent alliance of DDs and healers
Moth - Spam Debuffs until 20~ Exuviation are used at that point stop using debuffs and kill it,
Fish - DDs come /NIN or /SAM with 3rd Eye and zerg it down. Silencing it is a bonus to help keep shadows from getting wiped by AoE spells.
Oboron - Bring a couple of WAR to use Mighty Strikes (not needed but makes it much faster) to it's face and stun Mayhem Lantern and it goes down quick.
Matmata - Bring a nuker and a tank (RDM/WAR can do both) and nuke it at least once for more than 0 damage between TP moves. After the 7th have the DD go crazy. If it lives repeat (might require letting the DDs die and reraise but 5 minute weakness will be gone before the next window opens).
Peiste - Keep it blind and it's evasion goes down as well as preventing Grim Glower and Oppressive Glare. Just a matter of dealing damage at that point.

That's strategies to get all 6 of the outside KIs. Note none of these strategies require Delve weapons or R/E/M 99s let alone updated R/E/M 75-95s.

[Kihrre]

I don't know if this has been said, but since it is apparent that 75-95 R/M/E are going to be basically old content, and the newer weapons are relatively "easy" to get, they might want to lower the trial redundancy on said weapons. If they aren't top tier unless you grind it for an upwards of 4-6 months for the majority of players, and remember this is just to be able to contribute to combat these days. That's insane and poor game design. I see no reason why the trials below the 99 have to be so tedious anymore.

That would be one major way of fixing the problem. Delve weapons might be even outclassed in another update in the near future, making this R/M/E discussion flare up with even more whining. Might as well make the trials easier at this point for everyone since it's obvious they won't be as relevant anymore. This would really remove the bottleneck for the shield/harp trials as well, as ever since the cruor conversion nerf, people have just been selling these pops for money, making it a pain just to even attempt this consistently.

Just my two cents.

The R/M/E topic will probably never end, because SE is forced to make those weapons relevant. Note that I say 'forced' because I believe it was due to the players' feedback to to point where SE had to rethink R/E/M post-expansion, and rightfully so because of the amount of effort players had made to obtain these weapons. The same thing happened when Abyssea was released with Empys; the R/M owners had said their piece.

SE was clear about the path they want to follow with Adoulin content, and with the reveal of 'content levels', this may open up the possibility of even more powerful gear in the future. Right now Delve weapons are top tier, but what about if the in future SE decides to release new weapons? Can they simply release them with a higher content level, or will they again be forced to think about R/M/E/[D] owners and make the tough decision to either lower their new content to match (thus making it another 'path'), or to upgrade old content to match the new content?

[Duelle]

also, I think Duelle might have it right when he said 'ease up on the trials'. When they first announced 1500 HMP, many of us thought that it would eventually be reduced. Now seems like the ideal time, especially since they will not be increasing the power of non-99 r/m/e, no matter what anyone would like.I look at it more from intended time investment and expected completion. Progression in older/obsolete content does not remain the same once you start using content "tiers". Normally things play out automatically because the older content is lower level, so the player's relatively greater power makes that content quicker to clear (ex: a lv75 dungeon being cleared with little effort and risk by lv80 players).

XI rushed to 99 and had a bunch of content tossed in. As such the players do not naturally get stronger than the older content. Add to this the time spent expectancy and you have a possible issue.

For argument's sake, if an empyrean was intended to take you 4 months to complete and you had content that made that empyrean useless stat-wise, you'd normally be able to outpower the content to clear it more efficiently than when it was "current", some adjustment would be made to acquire it faster or more leisurely, or relegate it to a status item where the stats and procs are irrelevant stat-wise but the weapon looks damn cool.

Instead of going that route, SE seems to expect you to hold off on Adoulin content for the 4 months it would take you to make that empyrean (not counting gearing through abyssea and voidwatch) without what I would consider reasonable means for catching up. And that is honestly my biggest beef with the direction the devs are taking.

[Afania]

In my opinion, the argument can be summed up with two statements and their outcomes.

Level 99 R/E/M holders: "I spent a significant amount of time creating a weapon. When I created it, I knew it would lie somewhere on a contiuum of weapon power - in my case, at the top. Delve weapons have made my weapon useless. I have therefore wasted my time. I would like this to be fixed."

Result: lv. 99 R/E/M proposed upgrades, which will require me to complete an as-of-yet unspecified task to restore my weapon to usefulness.

Lower level R/E/M holders: "I spent a significant amount of time creating a weapon. When I created it, I knew it would lie somewhere on a contiuum of weapon power - in my case, close to (but not at) the top. Delve weapons have made my weapon useless. I have therefore wasted my time. I would like this to be fixed."

Result: I must make a very significant expenditure of time and money before completing the same as-of-yet unspecified task to create a more powerful weapon. There is no option to restore my weapon to its old level of usefulness, which was my original requirement.

The compaints made by level 99 R/E/M holders can just as legitimately be made by those that hold lower tier weapons. No-one wants to lose the work they put into their weapons, which in all cases is significant - just to varying degrees. I think denying <lv99 weapon users the ability to restore their weapons to their original level of usefulness is simply unjustifiable. They made their <lv99 weapon knowing what they would get - something good, but not exceptional. SE has taken that away from them, and they have a right to want their weapon restored.

Weapon users with <lv99 weapons wouldn't get anything "free" from this adjustment - at least not anything more than lv99 weapon users will. They will still end up with an inferior weapon. However, they will end up with a weapon that is "as inferior" as they originally intended - which is the only reasonable outcome.


I disagree, the way you say it sounds like lv 85~95 weapons are different from lv 99, but in fact they're not.

The one who made lv 85~95 weapons already know lv 85~95 isn't the end. Even if you make lv 85~90 in Abyssea era, you should already guessed that one day your lv 85 90 weapon would get a new trial.

Further more, killing lv 99 R/E/M means this game no longer has R/E/M. Which is one of the main reason why everyone is against this idea. If delve 30k weapon(which takes 1~2 days to get if you play more than avg player) is better than 99 R/E/M, then there's no reason to make them, thus one of FFXI's coolest concept is dead.

But keeping 85~95 as it is, and boost lv 99 R/E/M means R/E/M are still use-able. The legendary weapon concept still exist.

Players rant about lv 99 R/E/M isn't just about "I do this for nothing, boost it", but also because the emotional attachment, and I think emotional attachment should be lv 99 only. By your logic, if a player lv NIN during abyssea because NIN was useful, shouldn't he ask SE to boost NIN or give every NM NIN proc too, just because he leveled NIN for nothing after Abyssea/VW era ended?

[Afania]

The R/M/E topic will probably never end, because SE is forced to make those weapons relevant. Note that I say 'forced' because I believe it was due to the players' feedback to to point where SE had to rethink R/E/M post-expansion, and rightfully so because of the amount of effort players had made to obtain these weapons.

Nah, SE already said they're going to make R/E/M relevant again in an interview before delve weapon release. Just that they didn't figure out how and they underestimate the impact of it. I don't think they were planning to boost base dmg until players rant.

[Jerbob]

I disagree, the way you say it sounds like lv 85~95 weapons are different from lv 99, but in fact they're not.

The one who made lv 85~95 weapons already know lv 85~95 isn't the end. Even if you make lv 85~90 in Abyssea era, you should already guessed that one day your lv 85 90 weapon would get a new trial.

Further more, killing lv 99 R/E/M means this game no longer has R/E/M. Which is one of the main reason why everyone is against this idea. If delve 30k weapon(which takes 1~2 days to get if you play more than avg player) is better than 99 R/E/M, then there's no reason to make them, thus one of FFXI's coolest concept is dead.

But keeping 85~95 as it is, and boost lv 99 R/E/M means R/E/M are still use-able. The legendary weapon concept still exist.

Players rant about lv 99 R/E/M isn't just about "I do this for nothing, boost it", but also because the emotional attachment, and I think emotional attachment should be lv 99 only. By your logic, if a player lv NIN during abyssea because NIN was useful, shouldn't he ask SE to boost NIN or give every NM NIN proc too, just because he leveled NIN for nothing after Abyssea/VW era ended?
I understand what you're saying about emotional attachment, but why should that apply to level 99 weapons only? If someone burns their weapon to level 90 in a couple of days because they have optimal jobs, already have a high-tier weapon, lots of available time and plenty of help etc then I can see how they might not be massively attached to them, but not everyone can/has done that. It took me a long time to build my level 90 Hvergelmir, and I'm attached to it partly for that reason.

Part of the reason that that people want lower level R/E/M upgraded is that there was no warning that this Delve fiasco was going to happen. There have been new legendary weapons released in the past, but they've always been approximately the same tier of effectiveness (generally speaking) to each other. If you had a relic before the mythics or empyreans came out, it's still top-tier afterwards. I think it was reasonable for people to assume that a level 90 Empyrean weapon would stay pretty decent for the forseeable future, and plan on taking it just to that level. It's not the best, but it's decent. Personally, I would not have created an Empyrean weapon if I knew the level 95 HMP trial was mandatory, because I simply don't have the in-game time or resources to complete it unless I slog it out for a year. This is the same issue that level 99 R/E/M holders face - they built their weapon expecting a consistent, indefinitely useful top-tier weapon, and now that's not the case.

Perhaps think of it this way: Empyrean weapons were created during the cap increase, with a definite end-point at level 99. If SE didn't think people might want to stop at some point along the way, why did they bother adding useful stats to any of the non-lv99 weapons? Why didn't they only give you the "complete" weapon when it's actually finished at lv99? Sure, the level cap increase period was fairly long, but if SE intended only the level 99 weapons to be relevant they could easily have announced "Your weird looking weapon will look like this at lv99. Start working now".

Regarding your jobs comment, job balance has been broken since the game's inception, and I think we can all agree that it's even more broken now. Ninja should be a useful job, regardless of when it was levelled or for what reason, or what is the point of having the job at all? I agree with your point - if you level a job, you should be able to be confident that it'll remain useful in the future. We all know that doesn't happen, but we also all agree that it should happen. How it's done is the important part - Ninja shouldn't suddenly become the ultimate job, but should remain just as good at what it does relative to other jobs - just as lower level R/E/M should remain just as good relative to other weapons.

[Afania]

I understand what you're saying about emotional attachment, but why should that apply to level 99 weapons only?

When I said "emotional attachment" I mean emotional attachment to this game/FF title, and irrelevant to the amount of time each individual spent, if I'm going to talk about individual emotional attachment then it will never end, because you can have emotional attachment to Hagun/martial gun or even a copper ring for personal reasons.

For example, "Excalibur" is the ultimate sword in past FF titles, if you have it you have the ultimate sword called Excalibur used by king arthur. If all lv range Excalibur is useless, than it won't be used by anyone and the concept of legendary sword Excalibur would be dead. "Save the queen" is also a legendary sword from past FF series, but most players probably don't know they exist nor care, simply because it's not legendary weapon and sucked bad.

Boosting lv 99 Excalibur and make it relevant, that means the legendary sword Excalibur still exist in this game. Lv 75~lv 95 doesn't need a boost, as long as lv 99 stat is good then this sword still exist. If SE doesn't boost lv 99 then it'd be like Save the Queen, that nobody gives a shit. And FFXI would be a boring game if all weapons have no special WS and looked boring, with little to no back story.

If you want to complain about gap between lv 85 and lv 99 is too big, look at relic weapons from 1st stage to final stage.

[Jerbob]

The trouble with that logic is that, at the moment, lower-levelled R/E/M are already pretty good, which means by your reasoning that a level 99 Excalibur currently doesn't possess that "emotional awe" that you're describing, which I don't think is necessarily true at all. All I am proposing is maintaining what's currently in place - when the upgrades occur, if lower level weapons upgrade at the same time the "relative awesomeness" quotient will remain the same. If anything, your argument implies that we should upgrade lower level R/E/M, otherwise we'll have a load of useless Excaliburs around that are pretty much as useful as Save the Queen is now.

[zataz]

lol...stop being lazy...just farm gil or get a good linkshell and finish your weapon. Why do you think you DESERVE to have SE reward your laziness?

ill agree with this u want the weapon do the work <,<
question
how would u feel, if they fixed the damage on your pre 99 wep and then gave everyone a free wep or 2 on level 90. would u not feel jipped? in the same way people who put the work into it feel about this?

[Demon6324236]

If anything, your argument implies that we should upgrade lower level R/E/M, otherwise we'll have a load of useless Excaliburs around that are pretty much as useful as Save the Queen is now.That, or people should simply take their Excalibur to 99, I prefer people just taking the weapons to 99.

[Sarick]

Been reading most of it is about hardcores talking about how LAZY people who can't play are or how they should suck less. Wonderful logic just tell everyone subscribing that can't participate on the same level to go play WOW now. Maybe that'll help make this game get better when it's already bleeding subscribers and its development resources continue to dwindle. It's this type of logic that makes the game lose interest especially if no one hears the screams of players who can't participate in current content.

The surge of new players was do to the expansion after it settles down you can continue to play in your top tear gear that you had time to get while a system that worked well for everyone gets thrashed. Z-NAME or whatever your real game name is I wouldn't doubt you play this game a lot.

For better words the hardcore have failed to be unbiased about these subjects. As a result they don't care about making the game attractive for a diverse group of players. You see as long as they live in a fantasy world where they can remain on top by playing long hours everyone else can continue to be seen as the LAZY players.

This is why the developers posted the comment when you first enter the game. Unfortunately, they made content that promotes this type of play style. For shame, the amount of effort some players insist on putting into this game for a shiny animated pixel they could be making big bucks as a scientist, lawyer, dentist or doctor. Something to really be proud of that none of these real life professions could ever achieve easily playing games hardcore.

[Demon6324236]

I have no 99 weapons, my Almace is 85 due to lack of use, my Excalibur is 95 due to lack of people to do ADL with. Its not me being a douche, its behind honest, I rather 99 have the huge increase and 95s stay the same way, its not that hard to upgrade them to 99, if you did a Relic, you obviously farmed Dyna a ton, people still get and sell Marrows, just use AC to buy them. If you did not do Dyna for a Relic, you have a lot of money, which again, use that same money, buy marrows, you win. Third option is make a group for ADL, with as powerful of weapons as we have now, I can not imagine its all to hard to do it with a small group of people, maybe a few mules, but in the end I have to think its fairly easy. Like I said, I have no 99RME, and I still think only 99s should get upgraded, there is no bias, its simply how I feel about the subject.

[Zagen]

Z-NAME or whatever your real game name is I wouldn't doubt you play this game a lot.

Pretty sure this is a dig at me as I don't think anyone else has posted with a Z name if they have or if I'm wrong then I'm sorry. If you would have taken a short moment you would have seen my character's name is also zagen (it's in the info under my "unique" avatar).

You must have missed this post:


My Almace and Armageddon are at 85, my Apocalypse is at 95 because I'm lazy. I have the means to obtain the items required to make them 99. Might take a while for the Emps but I can do it. Heck the 5 Umbral Marrows to 99 my Apocalypse cost 50-75 million, or in context of an event I'm currently spamming on a semi regular basis that's 167~250 Airlixir +1s being sold or 417,500-625,000 or 83-125 fracture runs averaging 5k. That doesn't even account for farming Volatile Matamata which usually ends up giving me 3 +1s and 1,500 more plasm. By not rigorously focusing on selling Airlixir +1s to fund my Apocalypse 95 to 99 I'm being lazy, at least I'm willing to admit it.

Do you see how increasing 75-95's damage would actually benefit my lazy butt? Yet I'm against boosting them, mainly because the current stats for those versions of the r/e/m are perfectly fine for tackling the content they were designed to help players tackle.

I get some players have less time to play and some have more but it's still your decision as that player what you prioritize with the time you have in game. If you're focused (unlike me) you'll get a 99 r/e/m, might take a year or two but you'd get it done. Also I'd imagine the increased stats whatever they may be when locked to the 99 version would drive you just like the increased stats on the 80/85/90/95 version are driving/have driven players to bother upgrading to those points.

[Sarick]

I get some players have less time to play and some have more but it's still your decision as that player what you prioritize with the time you have in game. If you're focused (unlike me) you'll get a 99 r/e/m, might take a year or two but you'd get it done. Also I'd imagine the increased stats whatever they may be when locked to the 99 version would drive you just like the increased stats on the 80/85/90/95 version are driving/have driven players to bother upgrading to those points.

Don't worry. Regardless of what is implemented, you'll find a way to spin it so it looks different. That way, you won't have to deal with the the real issues facing the game and it's community.

You said focused? What good is that if your gear is trash every update? This game is going to the sewers because the development has started the mentality of resetting players who've busted their arses back to nothing. You see most players who are or were on the fence about quitting in the past stayed because their character investments. When devs throw a wrench in that the same players no longer had those investments to maintain that bond. This is one reason why they started losing casual subscribers.

You sir have the belief that it "as long as you work really hard for sweet pixels you'll be fine." In reality this is a self centered view of how the game is meant to be played. It's the way the developers think and is one thing that's currently destroying the game. You might not give a shant about the wrong direction the game is headed but others do. Like or not it does effect the player base more then your social fantasy world clique realizes.

The RME gear should always be relevant at all stages. The only thing this topic is asking for is that those lower stages get rebalanced so that they grow towards the 99 stages in a steady fashion not just jump at the final stage 99. Disagree? What the developers did was wrong and it does upset players that's why there was an rage out bust. Unfortunitly, only a small percentage of these fanatical (focused) players where given the chance to keep their RME investments with the lopsided announcement to give RME weapons one final upgrade.

Lets hear you spin this some more, clearly you only see this in one perspective. That's okay though because you won't be missed either.

[Zagen]

The RME gear should always be relevant at all stages. The only thing this topic is asking for is that those lower stages get rebalanced so that they grow towards the 99 stages in a steady fashion not just jump at the final stage 99. Disagree? What the developers did was wrong and it does upset players that's why there was an rage out bust. Unfortunitly, only a small percentage of these fanatical (focused) players where given the chance to keep their RME investments with the lopsided announcement to give RME weapons one final upgrade.

Lets hear you spin this some more, clearly you only see this in one perspective. That's okay though because you won't be missed either.

Here's my "spin":

Relic and Mythic weapons at 75 are great for taking on 75 content.
Relic, Mythic, and to a lesser extent Empyrean weapons are great for taking on level 80 content.
Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at 85 are great for taking on level 85 content.
Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at 90 are great for taking on level 90 content.
Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at 95 are great for taking on level 95 content.
Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at 99 are great for taking on level 99 content.

Now there's a problem and that is essentially SE doesn't want us to go past level 99 (supposedly because of ascetic issues), so instead of us going past level 99 our new level 99 gear and content is actually higher than 99 (post about levels above 99 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33458-Follow-up-Level-99-Relic-Mythic-Empyrean-and-Walk-of-Echoes-Weapons)). This means Delve (non final boss) weapons that read "Lv. 99" are actually supposed to be Lv. 113 or 114 depending on how you read that list. This issue here is now the Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at 99 which are supposed to be the "best" weapons are no longer the best as they haven't been updated like in the past.

So how do the 75 to 95 versions need to be updated if they are still great at taking on content they were designed to take on?

[Demonviper]

Here's my "spin":

Relic and Mythic weapons at 75 are great for taking on 75 content.
Relic, Mythic, and to a lesser extent Empyrean weapons are great for taking on level 80 content.
Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at 85 are great for taking on level 85 content.
Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at 90 are great for taking on level 90 content.
Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at 95 are great for taking on level 95 content.
Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at 99 are great for taking on level 99 content.

Now there's a problem and that is essentially SE doesn't want us to go past level 99 (supposedly because of ascetic issues), so instead of us going past level 99 our new level 99 gear and content is actually higher than 99 (post about levels above 99 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33458-Follow-up-Level-99-Relic-Mythic-Empyrean-and-Walk-of-Echoes-Weapons)). This means Delve (non final boss) weapons that read "Lv. 99" are actually supposed to be Lv. 113 or 114 depending on how you read that list. This issue here is now the Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at 99 which are supposed to be the "best" weapons are no longer the best as they haven't been updated like in the past.

So how do the 75 to 95 versions need to be updated if they are still great at taking on content they were designed to take on?

The problem isn't the damage rating on pre-99 relic/empy/mythics, its the inability to complete them in the first place. This is worst for empy weapons, since it's impossible to solo voidwatch NMs reliably. Major adjustments are required to these weapons, but perhaps not to increase the damage ratings, instead it would be better to simply make it possible for people to progress through the pre-99 trials again by reigniting interest in old content.

I believe most people haven't yet noticed how badly broken this game is since seekers yet, but it completely killed one of final fantasy XIs greatest strengths, a huge wealth of mostly relevant horizontal content and instead, focused attention onto a handful of new content events that have extremely powerful rewards. I still have no idea what SE were thinking, frankly.

[Zagen]

The problem isn't the damage rating on pre-99 relic/empy/mythics, its the inability to complete them in the first place. This is worst for empy weapons, since it's impossible to solo voidwatch NMs reliably. Major adjustments are required to these weapons, but perhaps not to increase the damage ratings, instead it would be better to simply make it possible for people to progress through the pre-99 trials again by reigniting interest in old content.

I believe most people haven't yet noticed how badly broken this game is since seekers yet, but it completely killed one of final fantasy XIs greatest strengths, a huge wealth of mostly relevant horizontal content and instead, focused attention onto a handful of new content events that have extremely powerful rewards. I still have no idea what SE were thinking, frankly.

I agree that the issue is in how accessible it is to complete up to 99 in the case of Emps, to a lesser extent for Relics and Mythics as well. Changing the damage/effects on pre 99 R/E/M doesn't solve that issue. Changing what drops X,Y,Z in old content does, I mean using Emps for example; what if HMPs dropped from Tier IV city bosses (with decent drop rates of course). That would appeal to profit seekers, people who haven't cleared the city paths yet, as well as to the people who're still trying to get X item from those NMs.

[Sarick]

Here's my "spin":

Relic and Mythic weapons at 75 are great for taking on 75 content.
Relic, Mythic, and to a lesser extent Empyrean weapons are great for taking on level 80 content.
Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at 85 are great for taking on level 85 content.
Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at 90 are great for taking on level 90 content.
Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at 95 are great for taking on level 95 content.
Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at 99 are great for taking on level 99 content.

Now there's a problem and that is essentially SE doesn't want us to go past level 99 (supposedly because of ascetic issues)

So how do the 75 to 95 versions need to be updated if they are still great at taking on content they were designed to take on?

This is one huge mistake here. Dispute them being created for older content as new content pushes ahead these gears and the OLD content gets shoved out the door. The game moves forward the diversity is channeled toward ONLY new content. This stagnates old content and belittles returning players. It also reduces the possibility of new players having access to old content and casuals from enjoying their playstyle. Who the Flip wants to do old missions or anymore. The entertainment value is being lost for a large population of players. You might not see it but SE should be seeing the results now. Why did Wadda really resign?

One direction for players Humpt, It's the shortsidedness that disturbs the game in such a way that only the UP TO DATE players with a LOT of FREE TIME and FOCUS that can enjoy the content. The way it is now it's focusing on one tunnel vision. There is nothing for the all groups of players to enjoy. So what if RMES get upgraded it gives players the options to choose what gear they like and extend on that system. THey broke it with SoA by making that gear a waste of time to finish.

I think most people are argent. They fail to notice people pay for this game. If the developers want it to remain interesting and keep subscribers coming back DIVERSITY is the key. Their direction may not be how everyone enjoys the content. It's more or less making more players jump through hoops to play the way THEY want you to. The hardcore don't care they can adapt because of resources the. Casuals just quit and the game becomes stagnant until a new farce is added. Is this the legacy you want that leads this MMO to it's death? That's exactly where it's headed if the they continue making the game less attractive to a broad audience.

I tell you what get five friends to join this game and see how long they last. I'm not talking hand them gear PL them or help them out in any way. I bet most or all of them will quit in a few months. This is one reason the game is dieing. It's because content isn't fun anymore for everyone. The developers also refuse to adjust old content to keep up. The players who are new or don't play much are screwed.

Again, SO what if the RMES was designed for older content. The game has gear growth now so special content should always have a place to grow with the new content. Currently the game has a lot totalitarianism in it's basic design you're forced into new content even if it sucks. It's seriously not good if limitations are created that make one or more groups less attracted to this game. Smart people don't like it when they realize this and stupid people don't figure it out.

[Zagen]

This is one huge mistake here. Dispute them being created for older content as new content pushes ahead these gears and the OLD content gets shoved out the door. The game moves forward the diversity is channeled toward ONLY new content. This stagnates old content and belittles returning players. It also reduces the possibility of new players having access to old content and casuals from enjoying their playstyle. Who the Flip wants to do old missions or anymore. The entertainment value is being lost for a large population of players. You might not see it but SE should be seeing the results now. Why did Wadda really resign?

One direction for players Humpt, It's the shortsidedness that disturbs the game in such a way that only the UP TO DATE players with a LOT of FREE TIME and FOCUS that can enjoy the content. The way it is now it's focusing on one tunnel vision. There is nothing for the all groups of players to enjoy. So what if RMES get upgraded it gives players the options to choose what gear they like and extend on that system. THey broke it with SoA by making that gear a waste of time to finish.

I think most people are to argent to notice people pay for this game. If the developers want it to remain interesting DIVERSITY is the key. Their direction may not be how everyone enjoys the content. It's more or less making more players jump through hoops to play the way THEY want you to. The hardcore don't care they can adapt because of resources the. Casuals just quit and the game becomes stagnent until a new farce is added. Is this the legacy you want that leads this MMO to it's death? That's exactly where it's headed if the they continue making the game less attractive to a broad audience.

I tell you what get five friends to join this game and see how long they last. I'm not talking hand them gear PL them or help them out in any way. I bet most or all of them will quit in a few months. This is one reason the game is dieing. It's because content isn't fun anymore for everyone. The developers also refuse to adjust old content to keep up. The players who are new or don't play much are screwed.

Again, SO what if the RMES was designed for older content. The game has gear growth now so special content should always have a place to grow with the new content. Currently the game has a lot totalitarianism in it's basic design you're forced into new content even if it sucks. It's seriously not good if limitations are created that make one or more groups less attracted to this game. Smart people don't like it when they realize this and stupid people don't figure it out.

I'd buy this sort of thinking if I saw 0 shouts for VW (more diversity would be nice), Emp Armor +1/+2 farming, Emp Weapon 85/95 item farming, Old/New Nyzul, Assualts, Limbus (granted boss items/runs). The list goes on the point is old content is still alive and kicking, not as much as it was when it was new but that's a given people who have gotten stuff from X event move on to Y that happens all the time unless there's nothing new for a long time otherwise they just move on to another game.

You're trying to encourage ways to bypass a lot of the old content not encourage revitalizing it so I'm not sure how exactly you're planning on players being able to "enjoy the content".

[Sarick]

I agree that the issue is in how accessible it is to complete up to 99 in the case of Emps, to a lesser extent for Relics and Mythics as well. Changing the damage/effects on pre 99 R/E/M doesn't solve that issue. Changing what drops X,Y,Z in old content does, I mean using Emps for example; what if HMPs dropped from Tier IV city bosses (with decent drop rates of course). That would appeal to profit seekers, people who haven't cleared the city paths yet, as well as to the people who're still trying to get X item from those NMs.

I partially disagree with this. I agree with making them easier to complete if the case is players can't complete them because new content stagnated the ability to grow the weapons. However there is want big flaw that is these weapons are CRAP compared new NQ AH content until they reach the final stages. This makes the long duration to finish them less attractive. If their growth below 99 isn't progressive enough into the final stages they just aren't worth upgrading unless someone enjoys making them. It's simple you can bet BETTER AH gear for less effort. This is BACKWARDS thinking game design. It punishes people who did accomplish any form of RME under 99. You know the 99% according to the census.

I assure you the developers did this knowing it was a slap in the face to anyone who had 85-95 RME weapons. It's distasteful. I'm sure they think that this strategy makes money but in reality it doesn't. The SoA expansion screwed a lot of RME weapons according to the census, but that doesn't matter does it. /sigh the game has been ruined for a lot of players and you you don't care because your biased.

[Sarick]

I'd buy this sort of thinking if I saw 0 shouts for VW (more diversity would be nice), Emp Armor +1/+2 farming, Emp Weapon 85/95 item farming, Old/New Nyzul, Assualts, Limbus (granted boss items/runs). The list goes on the point is old content is still alive and kicking, not as much as it was when it was new but that's a given people who have gotten stuff from X event move on to Y that happens all the time unless there's nothing new for a long time otherwise they just move on to another game.


You're trying to encourage ways to bypass a lot of the old content not encourage revitalizing it so I'm not sure how exactly you're planning on players being able to "enjoy the content".

Most of these players are looking to make a quick buck off the farmed items so they can sell them. Look at dynamis currency.

As I stated before.

"It's the shortsidedness that disturbs the game in such a way that only the UP TO DATE players with a LOT of FREE TIME and FOCUS that can enjoy the content."

It's simple make more old content paths that improve on old content. This way it competes with new content and diversifies the player base. Right now they're working only on new content and abandoning what worked in old content. If new content was added to old content that made paths compatible to new content then no one could complain. IE: adding a delve level enemy into abbsyea, sky or sea like they did with VW, dynamis sky etc. << that was how to do it.

Right now you want delve level equipment you need to play that content. There are no alternatives even if the new added paths create levels comparable scaled versions or casual development paths inside old content. It's just not there because old content isn't moving forward to create diversity. Everyone is being thrown into SoA or bust.

Look at it like this, Microsoft tried the same thing with windows 8. You see where it got them? They started losing audience. Eventually it clicked that people wanted their start menus back do their started work on windows blue 8.1. It seems they haven't learned much the hate for Xbox one anti-consumer direction is well documented.

[Zagen]

Most of these players are looking to make a quick buck off the farmed items so they can sell them. Look at dynamis currency.

Farmed items? How the hell does shouting for people to help/participate with Old/New Nyzul, Emp +1/2, VW clears (yeah you could get lucky on that 1 round but that's not why most are going), Emp weapon items profit the shouter? It doesn't. I get that shouting for certain VW fights could be for profit but it could also be for personal gain. In either case who cares? That gil seeker is 1 more person helping you do old content.



It's simple make more old content paths that improve on old content. This way it competes with new content and diversifies the player base. Right now they're working only on new content and abandoning what worked in old content. If new content was added to old content that made paths compatible to new content then no one could complain. IE: adding a delve level enemy into abbsyea, sky or sea like they did with VW, dynamis sky etc. << that was how to do it
Nice idea except it has 0 to do with updating 75-95 R/E/M. I wouldn't mind expanding on old content as long as it has a story behind it instead of just "here's 2.0 with monsters you've seen before".


Right now you want delve level equipment you need to play that content. There are no alternatives even if the new added paths create levels comparable scaled versions or casual development paths inside old content. It's just not there because old content isn't moving forward to create diversity. Everyone is being thrown into SoA or bust.
Okay so if you want delve gear you have to do delve... I want Salvage 2 gear so I'm doing Salvage 2... What exactly am I missing? Maybe I'm missing the fact you think everyone wants delve gear and only delve gear. If that were actually true the only shouts I'd see were for delve yet I see shouts for other content.


Look at it like this, Miscrosoft tried the same thing with windows 8. You see where it got them? They started losing audience. Eventually it clicked that people wanted their start menus back do their started work on windows blue 8.1. It seems they haven't learned much the hate for Xbox one anti-consumer direction is well documented.
Yeah the start button is why people didn't like windows 8... Might want to actually look into the technical issues with 8 because there are many more reasons that have a bigger impact on PC users before you even have to worry about "where's my start button".

[Sarick]

Nice idea except it has 0 to do with updating 75-95 R/E/M. I wouldn't mind expanding on old content as long as it has a story behind it instead of just "here's 2.0 with monsters you've seen before".

That's where the the problem is and it does fit in with upgrading RMEs. If content is available for it then items can be upgraded there. The limits are there because the direction is set in arrogance that makes blind players follow a narrow path. There are a few that do stray but not many have the capacity to enjoy the plate of spinach the host is trying to make them eat. To some eating spinach would be considered a punishment that's exactly why things are broken.

The shallow views of what could be and that majority don't seem think in a broad perspective. It's the same vision that clouds the developers. I've explained a few things already multiple times as have others. Most players can't grasp the concepts I laid out because either no one wants to listen to reason or it's beyond their understanding. It's like trying to explain moral decency to a mass murderer. I'm very sorry, I had to say that but that's the jest of most of these spin arguments.

People aren't the same and every gamer plays differently especially on a large MMO. If you and/or the developers can't understand these differences it will eat away until nothing is left. It's like a car manufacture that decides all cars from this point on only come in black. The customer can suffer buying the black version, repaint the black version another color after they buy it or choose another manufacturer.


Yeah the start button is why people didn't like windows 8... Might want to actually look into the technical issues with 8 because there are many more reasons that have a bigger impact on PC users before you even have to worry about "where's my start button".

Still, this was one of the factors that hurt productivity in businesses. Software wise most of these issues where caused by incompatibilities with the new interface and API changes. The point I was trying to make isn't the exact reason for the issues it's the fact that the company didn't see what was wrong until it started hurting them enough. That's the whole point. If you look at the news on Xbox One they still haven't learned their lesson. The reviews and gamer hate is turning customers away from them. This is why it's important to think ahead and consider WHAT IF.

Read this quote it's explains some of what I've been saying.



Then they released Abyssea and the entire game changed in a short amount of time, everyone got used to this new way of playing. You could shout for people and do content that was genuinly fun instead of punbishing and you didn't get left out if you weren't in the specific linkshells. You didn't have to get DKP and you didn't have to keep doing the content for years after getting your gear to get the rest of your group theirs, guilt trips were a thing of the past.

They saw people liked it but they saw that people ate through that content a lot faster, so they decided to go back to the old ways and ignore what people found enjoyable.

The player numbers are around half what they were from Abyssea times and this is just after a new expansion. Biggest problem with SE is simply that they don't ever learn from their mistakes and they will stubbornly stick with what isn't working, even if it kills the game. I guess they don't really mind that anyway anymore because they want us all to move to the horror of WoWish XIV anyway.

For the sake of argument WHAT IF the developers went back to what attracted the most players and there was a surge of popularity? I'm not talking about this farce of a new expansion. Would it really be so bad if people are F'n happy doing what they enjoy instead of what another envisions? Maybe some have already come to the conclusion that this game is dead and nothing will save its future. Two words "TUNNEL VISION" it's a cancer that can destroy anything.

I'm sick of hearing from apologist despite the glaring flaws. Some of these players lack the understanding to see the facts or could simply be shills who've over invested their lives into this MMO.

[FrankReynolds]

Still, this was one of the factors that hurt productivity in businesses.

I gotta call BS on this. Anyone who uses a computer for work spends 99.99% of their time in desktop apps and files that can be pinned to the task bar. Anyone who spends more than about 10 seconds a day looking at the start menu or start screen is doing their job wrong and either needs to be retrained or replaced.

Home users who don't know what they're doing have a (somewhat) legitimate gripe about it. But again, the old start menu did nothing but launch apps etc., so the only legitimate reason to be in that menu for more than a couple seconds out of the day is if you are actually using the live tiles (which did not exist in the old menu).

As far as the actual "Start Button" - People complained incessantly about it back when they originally added it. Tech pundits had a field day with the irony of having to hit the "Start Button" in order to turn off the computer. These are people who are terrified of change and will complain any time you change anything. I mean seriously. Not only is it still in the same spot that it has been for the last 15 years, but there is now a dedicated button on almost every keyboard for it. Even a monkey could find it by simply mashing away at the keyboard.

There are plenty of legitimate issues with windows 8 (and every other OS ever invented for that matter) but these do not fall in that category. Sometimes people just complain to complain and I'm glad MS only met them half way by adding the button back, but still linking it to the "Metro" start screen. People will have a much better experience if they learn to use jump lists and pin things.

[Sarick]

I gotta call BS on this. Anyone who uses a computer for work spends 99.99% of their time in desktop apps and files that can be pinned to the task bar. Anyone who spends more than about 10 seconds a day looking at the start menu or start screen is doing their job wrong and either needs to be retrained or replaced.

Again someone who missed the point. There where many factors. I only listed one or two in my examples. I didn't go into detail about everything nor did I wish to. It's clearly for another topic that would go beyond this discussion so I left things out.

The whole point was to show that mistakes can and do hurt anyone. They can even affect huge developers who could use $100 bills to wipe their rears. BS or not the point is there and the company in question even responded publicly by adapting.

You want proof of this? Merely look at what happened to FFXIV. There was so much hate for the time based limitation that they removed that system on top of that the game was such a train wreck for reviews they puled it to create reborn. Just look at the markets they lost a log of cash recently so much that their Ceo resigned.

The developers could do better if they sucked up some pride and went back to what players liked the most. They started making things really hardcore because some people ate through content to fast.

The EMPS weren't really that bad until about 90. Where others like mythic and relic had the hardest stages early in development EMPS where feasible before they hit final stages. I assume this is because they where updated as player caps where raised where old content was originally designed to grow purely for level 75. These needed less useful stages because they where never initially designed to grow past 75.

[FrankReynolds]

Again someone who missed the point...

I don't disagree with your points about the game, but start menu was a bad example. It actually supports the idea that companies shouldn't listen to their customers because they will come around eventually anyways (remember that customers hated the start menu when it was initially added and now they can't seem to live without it).

I agree that companies should listen to customers when they have valid complaints. Especially when the product is a game and not a tool like windows.

IMO: The weapons should scale the same way they did before the update, with each stage being just slightly better than the last. Not stage 75-95 worthless and stage 99 god like.

[Demon6324236]

I think this will all blow over once SE implements a display for their true level...

[Raksha]

I haven't used windows 8 yet. If there's no Start Menu, then how do you "run" things? (I.E. start -> run)

[FrankReynolds]

I haven't used windows 8 yet. If there's no Start Menu, then how do you "run" things? (I.E. start -> run)

Clicking in the bottom left of the screen pulls up the "Start Screen". Basically they made the start menu a full screen app instead of a pop out and implemented live tiles that show information on the specific apps. IE. instead of a little icon that says "Email", you see a square tile that says email and shows how many unread messages you have so that you know without opening the email app whether or not you have new messages. The "facebook" tile might show how many posts have been made since you last checked or the first line of a message that someone sent you.

It's really all geared towards people who run windows on a tablet and want to see basic info at a glance. For people on desktop / laptop computers, you can pin apps to the taskbar or desktop etc. and never really have to go into that "menu". There are also about a million apps out there that make the whole thing look / function pretty much exactly like windows 7.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I expect S-E to reach out and do for level 95 RME owners what they historically did for stage 4 relic owners when these Magian Trial upgrades first came out to begin with: not a damn thing.

You either finish it, or it's a complete waste of your time. RME's have always been that way. RME's will always be that way. RME's were designed to be that way.

[FrankReynolds]

RME's have always been that way. RME's will always be that way. RME's were designed to be that way.

Have you been playing the same game? unfinished RME were not far behind the finished ones for almost the entire time they have existed. That only changed with delve weapons and the crapstorm that followed. we are now talking about a difference of like 100 damage vs roughly 10-20 damage pre adoulin. The difference in what kind of content you could do with a 95 and a 99 relic pre adoulin was virtually nothing. After they update these, it will be staggering.

[Raksha]

Clicking in the bottom left of the screen pulls up the "Start Screen". Basically they made the start menu a full screen app instead of a pop out and implemented live tiles that show information on the specific apps. IE. instead of a little icon that says "Email", you see a square tile that says email and shows how many unread messages you have so that you know without opening the email app whether or not you have new messages. The "facebook" tile might show how many posts have been made since you last checked or the first line of a message that someone sent you.

It's really all geared towards people who run windows on a tablet and want to see basic info at a glance. For people on desktop / laptop computers, you can pin apps to the taskbar or desktop etc. and never really have to go into that "menu". There are also about a million apps out there that make the whole thing look / function pretty much exactly like windows 7.


So how do you start -> run then? Is there a run app?

[FrankReynolds]

So how do you start -> run then? Is there a run app?

Yeah. You can add the run function to the start menu just like you did in windows 7.

All of the tiles can be organized in whatever way you see fit and re-sized to show more / less info or take up more / less space. It's basically a giant start menu. The main beef seems to be that it is ugly, but they are making the BG fully customizable soon too, so it can look just like the desktop if that's your thing.

http://i.imgur.com/cVqgX.png

Like I said though, you can pin pretty much anything to the desktop / task bar making this menu pretty unnecessary at all if you prefer not to use it.

First thing I usually do on a new computer is go to www.ninite.com (after installing a fresh OS over the factory install) and install all the cool free stuff in one shot from there. One of the programs is called "Classic Start". It gives you a fully customizeable start menu that looks / functions just like the old one.

[Raksha]

I never used windows 7 either (looking to upgrade my vista box soon.) I do have to say that the tiles looks like a huge waste of effort for me, since I only have a few icons on the desktop and in the start menu anyway. Whatever I can't start -> run I just navigate to the folder and run it that way.

[FrankReynolds]

I never used windows 7 either (looking to upgrade my vista box soon.) I do have to say that the tiles looks like a huge waste of effort for me, since I only have a few icons on the desktop and in the start menu anyway. Whatever I can't start -> run I just navigate to the folder and run it that way.

I just pin everything to the task bar like the clip below. I rarely ever use the start menu for anything besides (get ready for it...) shutting the computer down. One of the things I like about 8 is that the task bar can be shown on every monitor so that you don't have to mouse across multiple screens to get to something ( I have 4 monitors at work).

http://www.pallareviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/jumplist_for_Windows_7_task_bar.png

[Raksha]

Yeah but I really don't like clutter. I dont want 10 things pinned to the taskbar. To each his own though. Turns out my sister's laptop has windows 8 and after playing around with it a bit I didnt much care for it. I suppose its one of those things that'll be fine once you get used to it. I'm generally more of a "If its not broke, don't fix it" kind of person though.

[Shirai]

So how do you start -> run then? Is there a run app?

And now to give you a good answer to this question.
Windows key + r will open your 'Run' box.

And here's some other options.
http://www.autohotkey.com/board/topic/1738-comprehensive-list-of-windows-hotkeys/

[Raksha]

Thanks i'll try to remember that.

[Babygyrl]

After reading the proposed adjustments and finding out that only the 99-iterations of RME's will be boosted to compete viably with the new Delve weapons, I must say I'm a little worried. These weapons take time to get and not everyone can take them to 99 (especially in the case of empyrean weapons). So if one has a level 85 or 90 empyrean, it's just gonna be the end of the line for us?

I wield an Almace-90 and I love the thing. I obviously don't expect the damage to receive a boost to equal to that which the 99-variants are receiving, but it would be very nice if it received at least some boost (making the Base Damage somewhere from 90~100 would be nice). Also, if weapons that are 95 and below are not to receive this boost, will there be plans to make it easier to upgrade them?

I agree that the 95> 99 upgrades especially are stupid hard/annoying to get while the delve items are stupid easy to get.. which is completely unfair.. If anything the 95> 99 trials need to be changed! Me and my husband are more casual players now so we dont have time to get in an "ls" to ADL to get marrows for our relics.. so instead we began farming dynamis all over again.. the amount of gil it will cost us to buy them is pretty much rebuilding a new one from 0> 95 all over again, the delve weapons make it so damn tempting to just say screw this after all the hard work we had done to make them on our own.. and it truly sucks. Even with the "boost" that they will receive it will still be outrageously unfair.. all you need to get a base delve weapon is one key item.. oh and plasma f course.. bur R/e/M owners have to work tirelessly to get the same type of damage? its ridiculous! I know why SE had to make them that good because lets face it, if they were not that good no one would bother doing the new content.. but R/E/M completion needs to be adjusted.. no question about it.

And people will wine and moan that "i got it to 99 this way you can too" and yea we probably could but same was said about the old 75 relics when dynamis got overhauled they had a fit, but it opened the doors for more people to enjoy building something because a game is meant to be enjoyed..

[Ruhi]

Has anyone even considered the effect of delve on empy upgrades? Now that "everyone" is doing delve, the number of people/linkshells doing VW on a regular basis has all but stopped. All day only 1 english speaking VW shout at all yesterday (2 JPs were doing Providence) - and that wasn't for a significant HMP dropping mob.
So this will make 99ing an empy even more of a task than before. Less HMP and riftdross/riftcinder in circulation ect, ect.

Going back to farming plasm, discuss.....

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Ruhi, go back into your post, replace all instances of "empy upgrades" with "relic upgrades" and all instances of "Delve" with "Abyssea."

Just wait until they release the "level 120" gear for BST/DNC and go solo Voidwatch.

[Kristal]

Has anyone even considered the effect of delve on empy upgrades? Now that "everyone" is doing delve, the number of people/linkshells doing VW on a regular basis has all but stopped. All day only 1 english speaking VW shout at all yesterday (2 JPs were doing Providence) - and that wasn't for a significant HMP dropping mob.
So this will make 99ing an empy even more of a task than before. Less HMP and riftdross/riftcinder in circulation ect, ect.

Going back to farming plasm, discuss.....

VW will pick up again when the IL of emps etc is raised. Especially if it involves unlocking the weaponskills for all weapons.

[FrankReynolds]

VW will pick up again when the IL of emps etc is raised. Especially if it involves unlocking the weaponskills for all weapons.

Did they change their plans? I didn't see anything about needing to do VW to get the weapon skills. I thought they were going to be linked to the WOE weapons.

[Demon6324236]

Did they change their plans? I didn't see anything about needing to do VW to get the weapon skills. I thought they were going to be linked to the WOE weapons.They are for WoE, VW will not be impacted for that reason.

[Kristal]

They are for WoE, VW will not be impacted for that reason.

I got the impression that both Emp and WoE weapons can be used to unlock. WoE weapons are easier to obtain, but people that are working on their Emp might not want to redo all those trials again just to unlock a WS they already have access to. (Assuming the emp weapons are upgraded in the forseeable future.)

[Demon6324236]

So you are telling me you think people would rather go through the trouble of doing 1500 Metals and 60 Dross/Cinder just to unlock a WS, instead of just making a WoE weapon? I think not, and besides that, if you read the Dev posts they seem to say only WoE weapons are going to be used for unlocks. The original idea was that RMECs would all unlock WSs, but that was before there were plans to update the actual weapons themselves, and before the fact you can already unlock Mythic WSs was brought to their attention.

I think for this reason their idea changed, so we can unlock Emp WSs with WoE, not Relic by any means, and can already unlock Mythic. Also we will not unlock Aftermaths, which was the plan before as well, so far as I know. And finally, in either case this will not effect VW, the only thing that will is the RME upgrades themselves and how worthwhile they are in the end. If they are great, VW will pick up accordingly thanks to those making 99Emps, if the Emps are outdated with their WS unlockable and used with Relics & Mythics as I believe they will be, then Emps will simply die out and VW will not pick back up.

[Sephiran]

So you are telling me you think people would rather go through the trouble of doing 1500 Metals and 60 Dross/Cinder just to unlock a WS, instead of just making a WoE weapon? I think not, and besides that, if you read the Dev posts they seem to say only WoE weapons are going to be used for unlocks. The original idea was that RMECs would all unlock WSs, but that was before there were plans to update the actual weapons themselves, and before the fact you can already unlock Mythic WSs was brought to their attention.

I think for this reason their idea changed, so we can unlock Emp WSs with WoE, not Relic by any means, and can already unlock Mythic. Also we will not unlock Aftermaths, which was the plan before as well, so far as I know. And finally, in either case this will not effect VW, the only thing that will is the RME upgrades themselves and how worthwhile they are in the end. If they are great, VW will pick up accordingly thanks to those making 99Emps, if the Emps are outdated with their WS unlockable and used with Relics & Mythics as I believe they will be, then Emps will simply die out and VW will not pick back up.

But then that will have made the specialness of getting an empyrean weapon amount to nothing, regardless of what level it is. You want to know what my solution is? Either linearly boost RME at all levels (75~99) or make the trials less time consuming. And for the people that already had 95 and 99 empyrean weapons, give them a rebate proportionately equal to how many they built as a way of acknowledging their hard work. If SE is feeling lazy, you earlier suggested nerfing the Delve weapons. I do agree with that as a solution also since it created such a mythic power gap (no pun intended).

Getting some of these weapons to 90 is bad enough. And for all intents and purposes, empyreans are actually complete at 90. Remember the Golden Gobbiebag Giveaway? All the weapons for 1st prize were scaled to 90. So maybe SE even acknowledges these as completed weapons. Anything above that is, in my opinion, super complete.

You said yourself that you didn't have a 99, remember? Well, don't you think you worked hard enough on your 95 Excal? No one deserves to have their work totally thrown away in one update.

[Demon6324236]

You said yourself that you didn't have a 99, remember? Well, don't you think you worked hard enough on your 95 Excal? No one deserves to have their work totally thrown away in one update.I know, I still have not got it to 99, do I think it makes sense for my Excalibur to be 99 while someone else's is basically level 125? Yes, I do, I do not think my 95 Excalibur deserves the power of a level 115 because I got it to level 95, not 99 or above. I can accept that myself. As many people have said on this subject already, they are not making the RMEs go to level 99 and get some awesome stats, rather, they are going to say level 99, and be meant for level 120ish or above, like the rest of the item level system.

[Sephiran]

The rebate idea is still the best I got. That way nobody gets left in the dust. Furthermore, this is good for people who have no RMED's at the moment, because the new Skirmish weapons will be great for them and can then help them obtain an RMED of their choice.

Also, why can't the trials that boost item stats just be available for everyone to undertake on an RME of any level? That makes sense, right? That way no one's 99 effort goes to waste and no lesser incarnations of the weapons are made useless. If the trials are all the same, that means that end product will still scale in power along with its level.

[Demon6324236]

Correct me if I am wrong, the way that sounds is that a 90 RME wielder would do the same trial as a 99 RME wielder and obtain the same reward?

[Sephiran]

No, the 90 and the 99 do the same trial; however, 99 gets a greater reward to put it on par with Delve weapons. 90 Will be on par with most Skirmish weapons after doing the same trial. That's fair, right?

[Demon6324236]

That seems fair so long as someone would have the chance to do the same trial as their earlier stages in order to get their upgrades to be on par. For instance if it was, kill a Delve Boss 5 times, and I did, my 95 Excalibur would be upgraded. Now if I collect 5 Marrows I can turn it in and my Excalibur will be as strong as a level 99 Excalibur became once upgraded. I can see that as being perfectly fine, and not a bad idea in the least. No one who did get their weapon to 99 is losing out and no one who didn't is left without the option to do so after the fact.

[Aldaris]

Simple statement regarding RME...The work put in needs to match the quality of the item and right now it does not...Even AFTER the said RME update...a lvl 95 relic will STILL be MUCH HARDER to obtain than a delve weapon but yet will STILL be even more gimpy.

[Twille]

The game has moved on, your old gear can't stay good forever, if it does, there is no reason to play new content. Let the game move forward.

[Hawklaser]

The game has moved on, your old gear can't stay good forever, if it does, there is no reason to play new content. Let the game move forward.

If you had said best, I might of agreed with you. There is no reason major investment items can not remain good, or even great. As to there being no reason to do new content if it does remain good, people do not always do content for loot, Monstrosity is a very good current example of that. Plus I would rather have a plethora of old content to do that is still meaningful than a tiny bit of new content being the only driving force of a MMO.

[FrankReynolds]

If you had said best, I might of agreed with you. There is no reason major investment items can not remain good, or even great. As to there being no reason to do new content if it does remain good, people do not always do content for loot, Monstrosity is a very good current example of that. Plus I would rather have a plethora of old content to do that is still meaningful than a tiny bit of new content being the only driving force of a MMO.

IKR? Remember when Dynamis, Sky, Sea, Limbus, Einherjar, Znm, HNM and salvage were all popular at the same time? That was cool.

[Vivivivi]

As someone who has 4 level 85 Empyrean weapons, I was also upset that if I wanted to continue to use these with any sort of efficacy, I would have to 99 them. I don't think the below 99 should get boosted as another user pointed out, they are still best in class for level 85 weapons by far. I get that.

Relics, to be honest, are extremely easy now to get to 99. Marrow prices are falling to under 8M on our server, and I was able to solo Dynamis Lord on Rune Fencer with the AF gear, so I imagine small parties will be able to handle ADL with ease now.

The biggest challenge I see is with regard to Empyreans. As VW drops become less and less desirable, we are seeing less and less people doing any VW. And while it's now easy to low-man Uptala or Qilin, it's not easy to land procs in a reasonable amount of time with a small group.

I say do 1 of 3 things for HMP/Dross/Cinder-
-Lower the requirement for the trials
-Increase the drop rate
-Adjust VW so that treasure hunter increases likelyhood of magian trial materials to drop (outside of standard procs)

I'm all about making legendary weapon requirements challenging, but the window of realistically being able to even complete the trials for Empyrean weapons is closing fast.

[Zarchery]

I don't do much Voidwatch. How are the drop rates on heavy metal plates, riftdross, and riftcinder? I think that if at least 1 of each was a guaranteed drop from whatever mob drops them, it'd be fair. You'd still need a lot of these fights to finish the upgrade and meet server wide demand, but demand wouldn't be nearly as heavy and prices might come down.

[Aldaris]

The game has moved on, your old gear can't stay good forever, if it does, there is no reason to play new content. Let the game move forward.

Then they need to match the difficulty of obtaining RME to its quality...IF RME is gonna suck..make it 500 HMP and 10 dross/cinder for empy....instead of 30k alex 100k ichor and 150k tokens...5k alex 50k ichor 50k tokens for mythic...for relic slash of requirements in half...1 Marrow for 99...50 for afterglow....if this was implemented it would make sense looking back because RME USED to be the best so they were super hard to get...now they are not the best but easy to get....the problem is now RME sucks...but the difficulty of obtaining them has remained the same....so either boost RME to match its difficulty of obtaining...or make it easier to obtain

[Thorbean]

You can't have an Ilvl 100+ item with a level req of 90... 85-95 do exactly the same job as they ever did vs content they were balanced around. Adoulin content requires Ilvl gear, and Ilvl gear all has a minimum level req of 99.
Emp/relic 85-95 are still >>>> anything else below Ilvl status, so whats the problem?

Finish the weapon if you want the reward.

[FrankReynolds]

You can't have an Ilvl 100+ item with a level req of 90... 85-95 do exactly the same job as they ever did vs content they were balanced around. Adoulin content requires Ilvl gear, and Ilvl gear all has a minimum level req of 99.
Emp/relic 85-95 are still >>>> anything else below Ilvl status, so whats the problem?

Finish the weapon if you want the reward.

WTF does I level have to do with the amount of work these take? I can make enough bayld to buy a weapon that is better than an 85-95 weapon in less than an hour. That's some BS. They should just change them all from level 85-95 and make them 99. Just give people stats on the lower level ones that are of comparatively equal to how they are now.

[Thorbean]

I was responding to the original post.

Read 14 pages of moaning also?
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSCUXdaIqR-RRbtltKS7nf56Zt-ftd3Gnen3pX33e8zsCohGPn-AA

[Aldaris]

Exactly....it still takes MONTHS/YEARS to get a RME...years more on a mythic....and any fucking noob can leech off a decent delve group and get the best weapons in the game in 45 minutes...I do not have a delve win yet unfortunately...but I see A LOT of people that are severely gimped, do not have an RME...yet sport around multiple HQ delve weapons...FIX THIS SHIT SE...I have a Physics degree and I work in engineering and I am intelligent enough to say...YOU SOFTWARE ENGINEERS ARE FUCKING FAIL

[pretre]

we will find out soon they said they couldn't fit R/E/M fix into august update so now it should be next thing on there mind. and if its not then they have no intention of doing and just keep mentioning it to string us along and hope we forget about it

[detlef]

The longer you have to wait, the better it's likely to be in the end.

[pretre]

The longer you have to wait, the better it's likely to be in the end.

now there is a guy that has faith in this game lasting much longer. I wish I had the same faith but given the falling numbers id like R/E/M update now to play with it while I can

[Bamph]

WTF does I level have to do with the amount of work these take? I can make enough bayld to buy a weapon that is better than an 85-95 weapon in less than an hour. That's some BS. They should just change them all from level 85-95 and make them 99. Just give people stats on the lower level ones that are of comparatively equal to how they are now.

Exactly! And while they're at it, they should give my onion sword 50 DMG at least. I mean, they upped the *top tier* weapons and will be upping the lvl 99 versions of REMs, so Gimmie gimmie gimmie /sarcasm

Buddy... It's a freaking 95 level weapon. It is the top tier for level 95 weapons. If I get the level 75 Relic, should it be immediately upgraded to the level 99 version? NO FREAKING WAY!

What is the likely scenario is there will be a quest/TotM type thing to get them higher, just like there was a quest to make them from 75-80-85-90-95-99... continuing on, it will probably go 99-ilvl105-110-115-120-125-130...

Like seriously people... I know it's all about instant gratification and more power with all of y'all, but This post is ridiculous and deserves to be deleted. OMG... Ridiculous post it ridiculous.

[FrankReynolds]

Exactly! And while they're at it, they should give my onion sword 50 DMG at least. I mean, they upped the *top tier* weapons and will be upping the lvl 99 versions of REMs, so Gimmie gimmie gimmie /sarcasm

Buddy... It's a freaking 95 level weapon. It is the top tier for level 95 weapons. If I get the level 75 Relic, should it be immediately upgraded to the level 99 version? NO FREAKING WAY!

What is the likely scenario is there will be a quest/TotM type thing to get them higher, just like there was a quest to make them from 75-80-85-90-95-99... continuing on, it will probably go 99-ilvl105-110-115-120-125-130...

Like seriously people... I know it's all about instant gratification and more power with all of y'all, but This post is ridiculous and deserves to be deleted. OMG... Ridiculous post it ridiculous.

Yur right dude! It's a 95 weapon! So it should either take like 5 minutes and one NM Kill to get, or it should be much more powerful than it is. Otherwise something is completely out of whack. If you haven't made that connection yet then may god have mercy on your simple widdle mind. Stop acting like you don't understand why people are pissed that they put mad work and money into things that got trashed for no reason. You do understand. Nobody is buying the "Hai guyz... why so sad panda?!?" act.

[Rustic]

After reading the proposed adjustments and finding out that only the 99-iterations of RME's will be boosted to compete viably with the new Delve weapons, I must say I'm a little worried. These weapons take time to get and not everyone can take them to 99 (especially in the case of empyrean weapons). So if one has a level 85 or 90 empyrean, it's just gonna be the end of the line for us?

I wield an Almace-90 and I love the thing. I obviously don't expect the damage to receive a boost to equal to that which the 99-variants are receiving, but it would be very nice if it received at least some boost (making the Base Damage somewhere from 90~100 would be nice). Also, if weapons that are 95 and below are not to receive this boost, will there be plans to make it easier to upgrade them?

Adoulin is a L99 game. Why would they update lesser versions of a weapon where the Adolulin-era upgrade is supposed to be the "next step" post oldschool L99? This is another step up on the ladder, not simply making the current L99 weapons better.

[FrankReynolds]

Adoulin is a L99 game. Why would they update lesser versions of a weapon where the Adolulin-era upgrade is supposed to be the "next step" post oldschool L99? This is another step up on the ladder, not simply making the current L99 weapons better.

Because the lesser versions of these weapons still take more effort than anything currently in adoulin so far and probably more than anything they will release in the near future. Because why do you want them to suck? just so you can say "HA HA!" at people? Cuz that's what it sounds like. It sounds like you just want to tell people they can't have nice things.

[Bamph]

Yur right dude! It's a 95 weapon! So it should either take like 5 minutes and one NM Kill to get, or it should be much more powerful than it is. Otherwise something is completely out of whack. If you haven't made that connection yet then may god have mercy on your simple widdle mind. Stop acting like you don't understand why people are pissed that they put mad work and money into things that got trashed for no reason. You do understand. Nobody is buying the "Hai guyz... why so sad panda?!?" act.

Hmm... I like how you said that you could buy a better weapon *with bayld* than the 85-95 versions of weapons. Before Adoulin came out, I could buy a better weapon (or farm one up) than the 85-90 versions of REMs with GIL. I don't see your point of how a 95 weapon should suddenly get its stats upgraded. There's a way to get the ultimate version of it. Upgrade it to 99. Quit your bald-headed hume whining and save it for when the actual (read: final) progression of the REM comes out.

If you don't like not having an uber REM, then quit until it is up to your satisfaction. Once you can get the uber version, then come back. Vs. other weapons of its level (read 95), how do the 95 REMs stack up? Are they top tier for 95? Yes?

My "simple widdle mind" understands the fact that level 99 REM owners are rightfully pissed that their weapons got trashed. That was addressed and will get fixed... My "simple widdle mind" cannot comprehend though, the idea of the level 95 versions getting an upgrade alongside them. Methinks you've spent too much time outside in the northlands without a had baldie, for your brain must have frozen and fallen out. Or are you too upset that you can't play the game well enough, and want a free upgrade to the weapon that YOU HAVEN'T EVEN FINISHED MAKING.

I love how you're jumping on the *outraged that my REM sucks now* bandwagon, hoping to get a quick upgrade from it without having to completely upgrade it.

[Bamph]

PS... Your entitlement is showing.

[FrankReynolds]

Hmm... I like how you said that you could buy a better weapon *with bayld* than the 85-95 versions of weapons. Before Adoulin came out, I could buy a better weapon (or farm one up) than the 85-90 versions of REMs with GIL. I don't see your point of how a 95 weapon should suddenly get its stats upgraded. There's a way to get the ultimate version of it. Upgrade it to 99. Quit your bald-headed hume whining and save it for when the actual (read: final) progression of the REM comes out.

Yo mamma!! Ooooohhhh... My bald headed hume just pwned you kid! Seriously though, your insults are lame.

They just upgraded about a hundred different pieces of gear in exactly the same way. Don't like it? Don't use any adoulin gear then. Wouldn't wanna be a Hypocrite right?


If you don't like not having an uber REM, then quit until it is up to your satisfaction. Once you can get the uber version, then come back. Vs. other weapons of its level (read 95), how do the 95 REMs stack up? Are they top tier for 95? Yes?

You're confusing iLevel with the level that an item can be equipped. Furthermore, there's no reason why the stats on literally any item in the game can't be changed regardless of levels or why the level of items cant be changed regardless of power, or why I level can't be added to any item for that matter. Also, level 51 ele / chatoyant staves say hi, so this stuff about being apropriately powered for the level is nonsense in general. You're just arguing because you like telling people No. You really have nothing here.


My "simple widdle mind" understands the fact that level 99 REM owners are rightfully pissed that their weapons got trashed. That was addressed and will get fixed... My "simple widdle mind" cannot comprehend though, the idea of the level 95 versions getting an upgrade alongside them.

Maybe it's because you don't have any. Maybe it's because you like to argue. Or maybe it's because you aren't smart. I don't really care because you have no logical basis beyond "The number 99 is cooler than the number 95".


Methinks you've spent too much time outside in the northlands without a had baldie, for your brain must have frozen and fallen out.

Oh yeah, well "Your face" ...

Do your parent's know you are on the internet?


Or are you too upset that you can't play the game well enough, and want a free upgrade to the weapon that YOU HAVEN'T EVEN FINISHED MAKING.

Play the game well enough? You can buy all this stuff from bazaars. You're a special snowflake.


I love how you're jumping on the *outraged that my REM sucks now* bandwagon, hoping to get a quick upgrade from it without having to completely upgrade it.

I already have weapons that are better than these will be.


PS... Your entitlement is showing.

Yep, I'm entitled to the world and everything in it chico. What now?

[Bamph]

They just upgraded about a hundred different pieces of gear in exactly the same way. Don't like it? Don't use any adoulin gear then. Wouldn't wanna be a Hypocrite right?

ATTENTION INTERNET: We changed the definition of "Exactly." It will henceforth be known that when we say "exactly," we mean "similar."

Seriously dude? Exactly the same way? So they took level 80-95 gear and made it level 99? And then put an ilvl on it? Please inform me which pieces of gear.


You're confusing iLevel with the level that an item can be equipped. Furthermore, there's no reason why the stats on literally any item in the game can't be changed regardless of levels or why the level of items cant be changed regardless of power, or why I level can't be added to any item for that matter. Also, level 51 ele / chatoyant staves say hi, so this stuff about being apropriately powered for the level is nonsense in general. You're just arguing because you like telling people No. You really have nothing here.



Maybe it's because you don't have any. Maybe it's because you like to argue. Or maybe it's because you aren't smart. I don't really care because you have no logical basis beyond "The number 99 is cooler than the number 95".

Or: you must be this level to equip this item. Works the same way as "You must be this tall to ride this ride."



Play the game well enough? You can buy all this stuff from bazaars. You're a special snowflake.

I already have weapons that are better than these will be.


Please tell me how you'd fix everything and refund everyone's time and effort they put in for bringing their weapons up to 99 if, as you so put it, "It's a 95 weapon! So it should either take like 5 minutes and one NM Kill to get, or it should be much more powerful than it is."

[FrankReynolds]

ATTENTION INTERNET: We changed the definition of "Exactly." It will henceforth be known that when we say "exactly," we mean "similar."

Exactly the same way. They just add stats. They didn't change the level of any of the other gear, so it doesn't matter if it's level one or level 99. They just added an arbitrary number after the level to give you a performance gauge. The level at which you can equip it never changed. It's all still 99 just like it always was. That was actually the whole point of Ilevel. So that they could give you a way to gauge the expected performance of an item without them having to raise the level requirement. They can add an Ilevel to an onion rod if they want.


Onion Rod:
DMG 1 Delay 364
Club Skil +5,000 Magic Evasion +120,000

Ilevel: 216,987



Please tell me how you'd fix everything and refund everyone's time and effort they put in for bringing their weapons up to 99 if, as you so put it, "It's a 95 weapon! So it should either take like 5 minutes and one NM Kill to get, or it should be much more powerful than it is."

I wouldn't. I would make the weapon more powerful. You're the one who said they couldn't do that. You come up with an idea to make those people happy.

PS. What's with all the strike through text? Lern2internetz.

[zataz]

if there gonna up the damage of anything pre 99 id be ok with it if they put rdm on ochain <,<

[Rustic]

Exactly....it still takes MONTHS/YEARS to get a RME...years more on a mythic....and any fucking noob can leech off a decent delve group and get the best weapons in the game in 45 minutes...I do not have a delve win yet unfortunately...but I see A LOT of people that are severely gimped, do not have an RME...yet sport around multiple HQ delve weapons...FIX THIS SHIT SE...I have a Physics degree and I work in engineering and I am intelligent enough to say...YOU SOFTWARE ENGINEERS ARE FUCKING FAIL

They did. Now you don't have to do RME's anymore. Just like you don't have to kill colibri in meritpos because we pageburn/Abyssea. The "hard way" still exists, but it's no longer needed to advance.

Deal with it and get into Adoulin and stop masochistically trying to do your RME to 99. Like the aforementioned colibri, they can rest in peace.

[FrankReynolds]

They did. Now you don't have to do RME's anymore. Just like you don't have to kill colibri in meritpos because we pageburn/Abyssea. The "hard way" still exists, but it's no longer needed to advance.

Deal with it and get into Adoulin and stop masochistically trying to do your RME to 99. Like the aforementioned colibri, they can rest in peace.

Does it kill you that people who leveled in 6 man exp. parties still end up merited at 99 like everyone else? Why does does it make you so sad to imagine a world where adoulin is not everything? I mean would it really kill you if some guy who spent 30 million and / or 30 days building a 90 empy had a better weapon than a guy who spent 2 hours whacking a wall in marjami? Why? Just because Marjami is new? Are you afraid that if people got an upgrade to their 95 relic that cost 100+ million gil that they would suddenly have to close down adoulin?

[Bamph]

Exactly....it still takes MONTHS/YEARS to get a RME...years more on a mythic....and any fucking noob can leech off a decent delve group and get the best weapons in the game in 45 minutes...I do not have a delve win yet unfortunately...but I see A LOT of people that are severely gimped, do not have an RME...yet sport around multiple HQ delve weapons...FIX THIS SHIT SE...I have a Physics degree and I work in engineering and I am intelligent enough to say...YOU SOFTWARE ENGINEERS ARE FUCKING FAIL

I heard that SE was going to make a new requirement: Anything in Adoulin can only be done with a 99RME. Forgive me for not knowing how to play BLM because I don't have the Relic Staff. Or RNG because I don't have the Empy Bow. It's really our own fault for complaining that these RMEs take so long, and SE listening to us and making these powerful weapons to even the playing field for those who don't have an RME weapon.

[Kristal]

What is the likely scenario is there will be a quest/TotM type thing to get them higher, just like there was a quest to make them from 75-80-85-90-95-99... continuing on, it will probably go 99-ilvl105-110-115-120-125-130...

The likely scenario is that they simply apply an ilvl to 99 REMs, which can be done without breaking any existing quests or force people to lose any progress on 99 AG versions. But they can't do that until they got the whole ilvl thing worked out. Remember, only earlier this month did they modify a whole lot of 99 weapons and armor to accommodate ilvl.

Excalibur (99) DMG:73 Delay:233 Attack+40 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
becomes
DMG:136 Delay:233 Attack+40 "Knights of Round" Sword skill +242 Parrying skill +242 Additional effect: Damage varies with HP Item Level: 119
while
Excalibur (99 Afterglow) DMG:73 Delay:233 Attack+40 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP Afterglow
becomes
DMG:136 Delay:233 Attack+40 "Knights of Round" Sword skill +256 Parrying skill +256 Additional effect: Damage varies with HP Afterglow Item Level: 120

There's bound to be an ilvl 120 weapon (probably the final evolution of a skirmish weapon), that is going to be on par with REMs. (Making it REMSs.. the preciousesss)