Define Overpowered

[Hayward]

OK, there are far too many people loosely screaming "overpowered" at the slightest suggestions to improve beleaguered jobs that are being almost deliberately ignored by S-E and the playerbase alike.

What I'd like to see is some unbiased definition of "overpowered". Not some professional endgamer "I don't want my bandwagon job to be overshadowed" definition. Not some developer apologist "Balance" definition. Just a straight up definition.

[Ryce]

Overpowered = So effective at a particular role (tanking, melee DD, curing, pet tanking, etc) that no other job or job combination can compete at filling that role for a given group/activity.

OR

Able to effectively fill multiple roles for a given group/activity, enabling the group to add more to roles (more DD, more curing, etc) than the content would otherwise allow.

For the record, I'm all for fixing broken jobs, and find most "overpowered" arguments ridiculous.

[Vold]

The truest definition for overpowered is essentially being invincible, unable to lose whether by a great defense or great offense or both. When you have zero chance to fail, even after basic human error play their part, you're overpowered.

This works the other way too, AV back then, PW, ADL, to name a few, are overpowered. The price we paid for the FFXI end game style. Without a long term tier system of upgrades, SE often fell back on overpowered monsters to create challenge since players did not have a continuously upgraded gear system in place to be able to defeat the next big bad, like EQ.

[OmnysValefor]

This is an attempt by his, again (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33354-What-will-become-of-Red-Mage-v1.0), to get them to buff rdm's melee.

RDM is a good healer, good nuker, great enfeebler, has a great native selection of enhancing spells that accomodate /sch well.

RDM doesn't the melee bump you keep talking about. For it to melee well enough that it would be worthwhile in a dd's spot, it would have to outdd dnc, nin, thf, bst, blu, etc, and in comparison to many jobs that don't do two aspects well, that is overpowered.

[Hayward]

Sorry, but I made no mention of any one specific job. But feel free to post ignorance if you like. You'll only serve to prove my point.

[Alhanelem]

OK, there are far too many people loosely screaming "overpowered" at the slightest suggestions to improve beleaguered jobs that are being almost deliberately ignored by S-E and the playerbase alike. Where are people screaming this? I don't see it.

[MarkovChain]

Yeah like alternator is not overpowered because the puppet is extremely gimp. I remember my pet parsing 2% of my damage with KKK99. Now it's like 2.1% ?

[Demon6324236]

Overpowered in terms of a job is when a job outclasses other jobs in everything, for instance, if they made WAR have a GA with 350 DMG and ODD on it, it would be overpowered, as no other job could possibly stand up to it in damage, it would outclass SAM, MNK, and any other job who's focus is damage. If SCH had AS from WHM and Cure V as well as a piece of gear which did the same as the WHM AF3+2 legs, it would be overpowered, as it would be able to basically do everything a WHM can do. These are the types of things that are overpowered. People throw it around far to often because they fear that other jobs can become strong enough to step on their toes in a certain field, such as our misguided friend up above complaining about RDM melee enhancements, where he fears RDM would become stronger than many other jobs which are meant for DDing more than RDM is. If that happened to where RDM was stronger than other jobs more meant for DDing then it would in fact be overpowered because it would be capable of doing more damage than these other jobs while also providing support in many other ways, thus, an over powered job. Now to create balance one should have an acceptable level of capabilities in all fields a job has, for instance NIN, NIN has ranged attacks, but it is not up to par with its melee damage, so it is unbalanced and thus, ignored, the same with its magical damage capabilities, because it is far weaker, and its spells are harder to land than for other jobs.

[Nebo]

Aurasteal.

[Calatilla]

Overpowered = So effective at a particular role (tanking, melee DD, curing, pet tanking, etc) that no other job or job combination can compete at filling that role for a given group/activity.

OR

Able to effectively fill multiple roles for a given group/activity, enabling the group to add more to roles (more DD, more curing, etc) than the content would otherwise allow.

For the record, I'm all for fixing broken jobs, and find most "overpowered" arguments ridiculous.

Aurasteal.

Going by your example, SE`s suggestion that making Steal/aurasteal seperate JA`s on 5mins timers being Overpowered makes even less sense, since rdm can spam dispel, and drk`s can recast absorb-attri faster than once every 5mins.

[Ryce]

Going by your example, SE`s suggestion that making Steal/aurasteal seperate JA`s on 5mins timers being Overpowered makes even less sense, since rdm can spam dispel, and drk`s can recast absorb-attri faster than once every 5mins.

Agreed. That's a ridiculous statement by SE.

[Nebo]

Going by your example, SE`s suggestion that making Steal/aurasteal seperate JA`s on 5mins timers being Overpowered makes even less sense, since rdm can spam dispel, and drk`s can recast absorb-attri faster than once every 5mins.

And Sagasinger, and BLU, and BRD, and SCH, any mage /rdm, literally every job /SCH....blah blah blah.

It doesn't make sense when you try to apply that "rational person logic" to it, but it does make perfect sense if your goal is to keep THF in its current pathetic state...which I suspect is the case.

Like how all of us rejoiced when Bully was changed to allow Sneak attack from anywhere....once every three minutes...even though this really isn't much of an increase to anything.

It's 1 in 6 JA's you get some help with easing those positional restrictions. And assuming you weren't missing 100% of your sneak attacks before, your % increase to DPS is actually quite small.

BUT....we LOVE IT!!!! Why? Not because its super good, but because everything else we have sucks rotten, decaying ballsack! :D

[Raksha]

Aurasteal.

Don't forget Twilight Scythe (but not murasamemaru!)

[Hawklaser]

Overpowered = So effective at a particular role (tanking, melee DD, curing, pet tanking, etc) that no other job or job combination can compete at filling that role for a given group/activity.

OR

Able to effectively fill multiple roles for a given group/activity, enabling the group to add more to roles (more DD, more curing, etc) than the content would otherwise allow.

For the record, I'm all for fixing broken jobs, and find most "overpowered" arguments ridiculous.

I agree with this for the most part. The part I don't quite agree on is fulfilling multiple roles effectively. That can be rather a rather tricky balance to maintain without trade offs similar to SCH's Light arts and Dark arts. When it can do it all at once like on RDM, is where it gets very easy to become overpowered. Not saying RDM is a overpowered, just that the basis of how it is set up can get to the over powered state easier. The more roles a job can simultaneously fill at one time, the easier it is to become overpowered.

[svengalis]

I just don't understand why they nerfed ranger so bad to the point the job has become useless.

[Nebo]

I just don't understand why they nerfed ranger so bad to the point the job has become useless.

Tell that to the RNG armies killing the Delve Bosses.

[Demon6324236]

Don't forget Twilight Scythe (but not murasamemaru!)Admittedly they are very different weapons, one effects only normal hits, the other only WSs, in the case of mobs which take 0 damage from Physical, such as the Neo-Salvage Hydra, Twilight Scythe was still effective, Murasamemaru was not because you could not build the TP in which to WS with, unless you use JAs or had the TP previously. Also, the access to the weapon is vastly different, Twilight Scythe is gotten easily from a fight more than 50% of the active playerbase has access to, while on the other hand Murasamemaru is a 1% or lower drop from a NM that many, but not as many people have access to, not to mention the fact it requires 12+ people, and Shinryu does not require more than 3~4 to kill normally.

[Mayoyama]

Every time the topic of ungimping relic in offhand comes up people scream "OMFG OP!"... when really... by today's standard it's far from that.... I could see why mythic in offhand could be a little "OP" but really.. if someone has spent that amount of time and gil.. they deserve to be "OP" lol