PS2 limitation new Zone solution.

[Ilax]

I was thinking about it, SE could make totally new zone for none-PS2 player, those new zone would have new graphic/monster/texture etc.

Let say the same gear would drop from these zone, let say that could be NEW abyssea alternative for everyone that is not playing on PS2 console. I think that would open a new world for DEV, and also could interest tons of new player, without leaving PS2 support, also note how it would decrease zone occupation.

Some of you might remember many of my comment saying how this game need a better challenge, this would open the door for it :) New monster could be harder for the same gear stats but they have different color/texture, so in the end it could interest back the hardcore player.

for sure all this is possible, the real question is if SE have the $$$ for a project like that, but what you guys think about the idea?

[Mordanthos]

I was thinking about it, SE could make totally new zone for none-PS2 player, those new zone would have new graphic/monster/texture etc.

Let say the same gear would drop from these zone, let say that could be NEW abyssea alternative for everyone that is not playing on PS2 console. I think that would open a new world for DEV, and also could interest tons of new player, without leaving PS2 support, also note how it would decrease zone occupation.

Some of you might remember many of my comment saying how this game need a better challenge, this would open the door for it :) New monster could be harder for the same gear stats but they have different color/texture, so in the end it could interest back the hardcore player.

for sure all this is possible, the real question is if SE have the $$$ for a project like that, but what you guys think about the idea?

This just cant happen, and everyones idea of just, hey just make it not available to PS2 users is an impossible and unfair limitation. Its horrible business practice. For people who just cant afford to get a computer, that leaves them limited to the amount of fun, content, and almost not played with anymore becuase if this were to happen, everyone would go to the new areas and leave the PS2 players in the dust. Eventually what is going to HAVE to happen, whether they like it or not, is they will have to cut off the support to the PS2 and it most likely WILL happen, but of course, its going to be a while before they make a decision like that. It wont happen until they are absolutely positively sure that they can still make a buck on the services, and in order to do that, the content has to stay rewarding for players to keep playing, and if its not too large to fit into the PS2, the PS2 will live on until it is deemed impossible for the game to expand when they are planning to expand.

[Coldbrand]

We're already at that point, thus Abyssea.

[Mordanthos]

We're already at that point, thus Abyssea.

i dont even think the game has hit half of the PS2 HD capacity yet. Unless there is some sort of LIMIT to the space that its allowed to use on it, they have plenty plenty plenty of room on it, i seriously think it hasnt reached 20 gigs, and its capacity is 40.

I mean at some point your all going to be crying that the XBOX 360 is limiting the game, this is why you dont bring MMO's to consoles really, a PC is forever expanding, unlimited growth, systems have breaking points. Why we have an MMO that is cross console to PC networking is beyond me. But crap happens, oh well.

[Coldbrand]

Yes, I'm sure they'll have the game expand beyond 120 gigs and we'll "cry" about 360 limitations. Please, continue to marginalize legitimate concerns about the future of a product us consumers who have invested some more than a thousand dollars singlehandedly have since a small portion of the userbase insists on using 11 year old technology and thinks it's inconsiderate of US to expect them to upgrade to even the worst of possible computers or even a console that the majority of core gamers already own to begin with.

[Mordanthos]

Yes, I'm sure they'll have the game expand beyond 120 gigs and we'll cry about 360 limitations.

you say 120 gigs, but look at PS2, its capacity is 40 gigs, and the game hasnt even reached 20 gigs yet, so wtf is limiting the updates because of the PS2. The XBOX 360 may hold some sort of LIMIT to how much data is allowed to be used for 1 single game.

[Vold]

I think the only thing a hardcore gamer is interested in is bragging rights and fuel for their shouting matches at each other about who's #1. Whenever a person goes spewing non sense about challenge they're really just saying that they want the gear from those encounters so they can brag. You go and do what you suggest and all you're really doing in ensuring hardcore gamers stick around current zones because it's more efficient. But hey for what it's worth I'm game for it. It'll serve to prove my point.

I really think with Abyssea it has opened things up to go the challenging route. Problem is we the players have opted to bail out on the challenge part. It's our choice to put a MNK up against Rani while everyone else stands comfortably by watching. Really, why bother with designing challenging content if all we're going to do is skip as much of it as possible? It's all talk from people as far as I'm concerned.

[Mordanthos]

I think the only thing a hardcore gamer is interested in is bragging rights and fuel for their shouting matches at each other about who's #1. Whenever a person goes spewing non sense about challenge they're really just saying that they want the gear from those encounters so they can brag. You go and do what you suggest and all you're really doing in ensuring hardcore gamers stick around current zones because it's more efficient. But hey for what it's worth I'm game for it. It'll serve to prove my point.

I really think with Abyssea it has opened things up to go the challenging route. Problem is we the players have opted to bail out on the challenge part. It's our choice to put a MNK up against Rani while everyone else stands comfortably by watching. Really, why bother with designing challenging content if all we're going to do is skip as much of it as possible? It's all talk from people as far as I'm concerned.

Dude...wtf does any of this have to do with the topic...

[Ilax]

hey just make it not available to PS2 users is an impossible and unfair limitation.

So is limiting PC user because of PS2 sound more fair? You said it, they have to drop it eventually, don't mean they have to do it brutally, my solution is overtime, and of course it give an reason for PS2 to upgrade. Why do you think people left Win95, because microsoft stop support them, do you really think 98 had better to offer? Better security hole maybe, same will happen with XP vs Vista...

I don't know, i think what i say sound more fair because is not brutal as completely drop PS2 support, of course they wont have access to new zone as they can't play FF14, but they still can get the same gear, so they are not really missing much outside new environment that everyone would like to see, and you know if PS2 player are that much interest in it, they will upgrade, is not like they are forced to do it.

Also, nothing say SE can't restore old zone for PS2 player. (is what they are doing anyway atm) To say they going to be left behind i don't think so, specially if SE give a reason to stay in old content as they currently doing with abyssea.

[Antonioklaus]

This just cant happen, and everyones idea of just, hey just make it not available to PS2 users is an impossible and unfair limitation. Its horrible business practice. For people who just cant afford to get a computer, that leaves them limited to the amount of fun, content, and almost not played with anymore becuase if this were to happen, everyone would go to the new areas and leave the PS2 players in the dust. Eventually what is going to HAVE to happen, whether they like it or not, is they will have to cut off the support to the PS2 and it most likely WILL happen, but of course, its going to be a while before they make a decision like that. It wont happen until they are absolutely positively sure that they can still make a buck on the services, and in order to do that, the content has to stay rewarding for players to keep playing, and if its not too large to fit into the PS2, the PS2 will live on until it is deemed impossible for the game to expand when they are planning to expand.
People and business' still use IE6!

[rog]

I think your idea is retarded, and makes no sense.

Why exactly would they ever do this? You realize the ONLY limitation the ps2 imposes is memory, yes? They can add all the armor, zones, monsters, etc they want, with or without the ps2.

[Ilax]

Why exactly would they ever do this? You realize the ONLY limitation the ps2 imposes is memory, yes?

Well my idea was bit more then only that, i just did not go thru all detail.

*more bandwidth to start with, more memory for DEV, more performance, i doubt i need list all the limitation of PS2... The idea stay the same.

[viion]

You can get xbox's with 20gb hdd's >.> which wouldnt be enough, nore would the 4gb but it doesnt let you install anyway :D lol But you can upgrade.

I dont even see any limitation, it confuses me, if the game is 20gb and lowest ps2 hdd is 40gb, wtf is everyone complaining about?

[rog]

Well my idea was bit more then only that, i just did not go thru all detail.

*more bandwidth to start with, more memory for DEV, more performance, i doubt i need list all the limitation of PS2... The idea stay the same.
Only one of those is a real limitation imposed by the ps2. And that one has no bearing on adding new zones/gear/monsters/etc.

[Ilax]

Only one of those is a real limitation imposed by the ps2. And that one has no bearing on adding new zones/gear/monsters/etc.

It do for amazing animation, amazing texture with detail, new armor model and so on which is probably reason #1 why WoW stay #1 as RPG, sad story too because FFXI have full potential, is just the limitation that hold his potential.

Of course i am not amaze by nice graphic, is reason i play FFXI and not WoW, but trust me is not general opinion, you have to consider more then PS2, tell me your feeling if you buy a HD1080p TV but unable to see the difference because your cable/satellite provider refuse to upgrade? You would be insulted i am pretty sure.

[rog]

It do for amazing animation, amazing texture with detail, new armor model and so on which is probably reason #1 why WoW stay #1 as RPG, sad story too because FFXI have full potential, is just the limitation that hold his potential.

Of course i am not amaze by nice graphic, is reason i play FFXI and not WoW, but trust me is not general opinion, you have to consider more then PS2, tell me your feeling if you buy a HD1080p TV but unable to see the difference because your cable/satellite provider refuse to upgrade? You would be insulted i am pretty sure.
Pc/x360 versions already use better quality graphics than than the ps2. Not sure why you think that would require limiting zones/gear only to pc/x360 players.

[Shadowtaru]

You can get xbox's with 20gb hdd's >.> which wouldnt be enough, nore would the 4gb but it doesnt let you install anyway :D lol But you can upgrade.

I dont even see any limitation, it confuses me, if the game is 20gb and lowest ps2 hdd is 40gb, wtf is everyone complaining about?

The fun part is that the "20GB" 360 HDD really only gives you around 12.

[Altheav]

Yeah, I have a 20GB HDD on my 360, and I ran into "Out of space" errors during the last version update. I plan to upgrade my HDD as soon as I can afford it, which will likely be at least a few months from now.

There is a very good reason why SE wouldn't make non-PS2 zones: it would effectively double the workload for them, as they'd have to maintain two versions of the codebase. Plus they'd have a TON of work to do with updating the graphics. The amount of work required isn't really worth it, IMO. Plus I really, really don't like the idea of players being restricted from accessing certain zones due to what hardware they are running.

[rog]

There is a very good reason why SE wouldn't make non-PS2 zones: it would effectively double the workload for them, as they'd have to maintain two versions of the codebase.
That or because there is absolutely no reason to do so.

[Ilax]

Plus I really, really don't like the idea of players being restricted from accessing certain zones due to what hardware they are running.

I agree, is in some sense a bit crude for PS2 not be able to join new zone, but could be worse... Eventually they wont have choice to swap, is same as i said before, PS2 can't play 14 and please don't get to conclusion is reason why 14 is not a great success ><

Hmmm, i kinda lost track of Everyquest.... IS EQ1 still more popular then EQ2? If yes, then i guess SE should learn about this, i know EQ2 had very hard time at start...

Anyway, EQ1 never died and will probably never since company still put new content in it none stop, for XI it seem they won't have that luck till they make the right choice, and to say people will start play 14 just to get ride of limitation, is like dreaming. I would rather play something totally new instead, which involve totally new monster, totally new concept...

in my head is clear, i end to spend too many year into XI to restart all over again in 14. Is not like i only loose progress i did, but also loosing my friend-environment.

[rog]

I agree, is in some sense a bit crude for PS2 not be able to join new zone, but could be worse... Eventually they wont have choice to swap, is same as i said before, PS2 can't play 14 and please don't get to conclusion is reason why 14 is not a great success ><

Hmmm, i kinda lost track of Everyquest.... IS EQ1 still more popular then EQ2? If yes, then i guess SE should learn about this, i know EQ2 had very hard time at start...

Anyway, EQ1 never died and will probably never since company still put new content in it none stop, for XI it seem they won't have that luck till they make the right choice, and to say people will start play 14 just to get ride of limitation, is like dreaming. I would rather play something totally new instead, which involve totally new monster, totally new concept...

in my head is clear, i end to spend too many year into XI to restart all over again in 14. Is not like i only loose progress i did, but also loosing my friend-environment.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

[Ilax]

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

ah ok because you have better one?

Regression >> progression right?

[rog]

ah ok because you have better one?Yes. The ONLY limitation imposed by the ps2 is its 32 mb of ram. Nothing else. There is no real limit to zones, gear, monsters, etc. They can add as many new zones/gear/mobs as they want, and it won't require even a single extra byte of ram.


Regression >> progression right?Removing access for ps2 players and getting absolutely nothing in return for it is just silly.

[Ilax]

Yes. The ONLY limitation imposed by the ps2 is its 32 mb of ram. Nothing else. There is no real limit to zones, gear, monsters, etc. They can add as many new zones/gear/mobs as they want, and it won't require even a single extra byte of ram.

32 meg is crazy limited, you have any knowledge in programming? Is already amazing the game able to run with only that.

[Nephilipitou]

For people who just cant afford to get a computer,

There are people playing this game on PS2 who can't afford a netbook or don't even have a 5 year old computer? This game isn't taxing. A 200-300 dollar netbook can do it. They could even get a 360 to play it since you don't have to have an XBLG account to play FFXI. I'd like to see what the minimum PC specs to getting it functioning at or better than PS2 quality would take.

But if they can't afford to get a computer that is powerful enough to play FFXI I think they have much more important problems than not being able to play Abyssea content. Like having virtually no money. I'm sure if they pawned off stuff they didn't need, use, or sell some of their old games, they could get enough money to buy a computer powerful enough.

I don't think those arguments are valid.

Having content that you can not buy through the PS2 version shouldn't be an issue, however I would argue that they fixed the PS2 limitations. Before with an update all the files would be downloaded then rewritten aftewards.

Now a file is rewritten after its replacement is downloaded. So a 3GB update would need 6-7GB of free space (including a few hundred to a gig's worth of free space for various data related needs such as temporary files)

That's why some people couldn't download updates without reinstalling FFXI on their hard drive. If they drop Xbox/PS2 support I'd hope that they'd bring on a graphical overhaul along with it since FFXIV started off as a Graphics upgrade for XI. I'd like to see them do it in the middle range though.

So I think that we should be good to get to 99 at this point personally but then again I'm just going off of what devs have said and making my own conclusions. I'm not a dev myself.

[NightDagger]

Pc/x360 versions already use better quality graphics than than the ps2. Not sure why you think that would require limiting zones/gear only to pc/x360 players.

exactly right.

I went out & bought the game for 360 due to the poor graphics on my PS2. But we have to realize something here. The PS2 was the original release. It is hard for a company to drop their "baby". Now i have been trying to find a mod that you could do to the PS2 to increase the RDRAM. It is possible but just how far can you go?

Another thing I am curious is why would they not make it for PS3, I am unable to find the exact reason so if someone could enlighten me that would be great.

[Ilax]

There are people playing this game on PS2 who can't afford a netbook or don't even have a 5 year old computer? This game isn't taxing. A 200-300 dollar netbook can do it. They could even get a 360 to play it since you don't have to have an XBLG account to play FFXI. I'd like to see what the minimum PC specs to getting it functioning at or better than PS2 quality would take.

But if they can't afford to get a computer that is powerful enough to play FFXI I think they have much more important problems than not being able to play Abyssea content. Like having virtually no money. I'm sure if they pawned off stuff they didn't need, use, or sell some of their old games, they could get enough money to buy a computer powerful enough.

I don't think those arguments are valid.

They are not for sure, even SE at this point could give them a computer for free... I mean jeez even Bell Canada was giving Laptop for new customer for only 10$/month...

[rog]

32 meg is crazy limited, you have any knowledge in programming? Is already amazing the game able to run with only that.
Yes, and increasing the value of a variable does not use any more ram.

[rog]

Another thing I am curious is why would they not make it for PS3, I am unable to find the exact reason so if someone could enlighten me that would be great.
Sony requires ps2 ports to get an HD update. I'm not sure what exactly would be required for that, but apparently it's too much effort for SE.

[Ilax]

Another thing I am curious is why would they not make it for PS3, I am unable to find the exact reason so if someone could enlighten me that would be great.

Extra cost that would give no benefit to SE... Not like would give any for us too.

[viion]

exactly right.

I went out & bought the game for 360 due to the poor graphics on my PS2. But we have to realize something here. The PS2 was the original release. It is hard for a company to drop their "baby". Now i have been trying to find a mod that you could do to the PS2 to increase the RDRAM. It is possible but just how far can you go?

Another thing I am curious is why would they not make it for PS3, I am unable to find the exact reason so if someone could enlighten me that would be great.

because they prefer to do xiv on ps3 most likely, plus ps3 with backward compact works just fine.

[NightDagger]

There are people playing this game on PS2 who can't afford a netbook or don't even have a 5 year old computer? This game isn't taxing. A 200-300 dollar netbook can do it. They could even get a 360 to play it since you don't have to have an XBLG account to play FFXI. I'd like to see what the minimum PC specs to getting it functioning at or better than PS2 quality would take.

But if they can't afford to get a computer that is powerful enough to play FFXI I think they have much more important problems than not being able to play Abyssea content. Like having virtually no money. I'm sure if they pawned off stuff they didn't need, use, or sell some of their old games, they could get enough money to buy a computer powerful enough.

I don't think those arguments are valid.

I am lucky I own all gaming consoles. I do not own a PC I have a Mac. I prefer the Mac over PC any day. But I am unable to play a lot of games & refuse to run windows 7 on bootcamp again. You have to use a 3rd party UI or smtp program to control the fans or else you fry the HDD, CPU & the such (my wife did that 6 months ago). So it is not worth the money to "hope" my wife remembers to turn the fan speed up.

[rog]

So it is not worth the money to "hope" my wife remembers to turn the fan speed up.
It's too much work to set a program to start up with windows to do it automagically...?

[NightDagger]

because they prefer to do xiv on ps3 most likely, plus ps3 with backward compact works just fine.

Not alot of them in circulation, but heard it is not all that great anyways. I would be interested in a PS3 release not just PS2 game on new system.

But on another note, has SE ever stated why they never made PS3 version? (instead of a lot of peoples opinions)

[NightDagger]

It's too much work to set a program to start up with windows to do it automagically...?

best i was able to do was have ifan run at start up but it reset to default values. So I had to teach my wife how to use dos to set fan speed to around 3000rpm & get the cpu speed to 2200 & video card speed to 3500.

Best alternative is smc fan, which you either setup manually or boot into OSX and then into windows so the sms fan will copy the OSX settings. would love to find a good UI that allows me to create a statup setting.

[rog]

best i was able to do was have ifan run at start up but it reset to default values. So I had to teach my wife how to use dos to set fan speed to around 3000rpm & get the cpu speed to 2200 & video card speed to 3500.

Best alternative is smc fan, which you either setup manually or boot into OSX and then into windows so the sms fan will copy the OSX settings. would love to find a good UI that allows me to create a statup setting.
Try speedfan

[NightDagger]

Try speedfan

Not available for mac, PC only. So in windows I can download & run it but it is unable to pick up all my sensors & gives me zero fan control. That is by far the best UI I have seen just wish they would hurry up & make it MAC supported.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

[Emitremmus]

A good example of the limitations of PS2 vs. 360/PC can be easily demonstrated.

If you have both console types you will notice that on a PS2 if you change the background of your windows, it will take a good 3-6 seconds before your window background will actually change. On the 360 and PC, the background will immediately change to what you have selected.

Also what I have researched and have heard is that the current programming for FFXI does not support a 3 digit level number for your character. This explains level 99 instead of 100. It also leads me to believe that there are set variables for the game that would take a lot of time and effort to implement and change, not to mention you would probably have to do a complete reinstall of FFXI. This would suck for PS2 players. What ultimately holds us back via PS2 is the amount of information that can be displayed on screen at once, which is already bewildering considering our massive amounts of menus that reside in the background. Perhaps if some things were only viewable in mog house they could free up a bit of memory in order to implement some new jobs or something of that caliber. This is merely speculation on my part however, and I'm no FFXI programmer.

Just some insight for some of those who might not understand the memory (not storage space) limitations of the PS2.

[Coldbrand]

99 is FF tradition and how it should be.

[rog]

A good example of the limitations of PS2 vs. 360/PC can be easily demonstrated.

If you have both console types you will notice that on a PS2 if you change the background of your windows, it will take a good 3-6 seconds before your window background will actually change. On the 360 and PC, the background will immediately change to what you have selected.That is not even sort of a an example of ps2 limitations (let alone a good one).


Also what I have researched and have heard is that the current programming for FFXI does not support a 3 digit level number for your character. This explains level 99 instead of 100. It also leads me to believe that there are set variables for the game that would take a lot of time and effort to implement and change, not to mention you would probably have to do a complete reinstall of FFXI. This would suck for PS2 players. What ultimately holds us back via PS2 is the amount of information that can be displayed on screen at once, which is already bewildering considering our massive amounts of menus that reside in the background. Perhaps if some things were only viewable in mog house they could free up a bit of memory in order to implement some new jobs or something of that caliber. This is merely speculation on my part however, and I'm no FFXI programmer.

Just some insight for some of those who might not understand the memory (not storage space) limitations of the PS2.No. It can support 3 digit levels, however jobs like drk will not fit on the equipment screen (http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll220/ffxiRog/d9e782de0097616b42f9d1dc3126fddd.png), but other than that, it would work fine, without changing any code (except to remove the level cap)

[Randwolf]

I'm assuming that the thinking at S/E was that if people wanted to leave the limitations of the PS2 behind, they would switch to XIV. However, that was a flop. But, you are foolish if you think that S/E is going to do anything in FFXI that would exclude PS2. Most companies will come up with a new version of a program that no longer runs on old systems. But, it is a completely new program. Not additions to a current program. Looking at Microsoft as the perfect example, when Vista flopped, they didn't go back and reinvent Windows XP, they simply held tight until the next version of Windows came out.

So, proposing anything that will not run on the PS2, 360, and PC and is part of a game that is viewed as a whole, is pretty much wasting your breath.


See post below for information pertaining to the fact that, indeed, other games have essentially excluded the equipment the game currently runs on. So, I stand corrected.

[Ilax]

WoW was supporting Win98, and they say sorry not anymore, they actually gain more player... i think is time SE move on.

For 14 is same story as EQ1/EQ2, people wont switch that easy.

[Randwolf]

http://www.top1gaming.com/content-916-World_of_Warcraft_Version_history.html


Due to the fact that new content is constantly being added to the game official system requirements often change. In version 1.12.0 the requirements for Windows were increased from requiring 256 MB to 512 MB of RAM. Official Windows 98 technical support was dropped, even though the game continued to run fine until version 2.2.3. After version 2.2.3, the official patches to version 2.3.0 failed on operating systems earlier than Windows 2000. By knowledgeably using an old update executable with new patch data, Windows 98 and Windows ME users could update from 2.2.3 using one of the released patches. Once successfully upgraded, the new version of the game then worked with Windows ME, although version 2.3.0 did not work with Windows 98 Second Edition unless applying updates to the operating system, including an unofficial third party's operating system modifications.

You learn something new everyday. So, as long as someone's PC could handle an operating system upgrade, then your system would handle the updates. If not, you essentially had to purchase a new system. So, there is precedence.

[Ilax]

And guess what, 256->512 meg ram, and we are talking about PS2 with 32 meg ram. i mean seriously...

[rog]

And guess what, 256->512 meg ram, and we are talking about PS2 with 32 meg ram. i mean seriously...
You can't compare them. That 512 mb is including ram usage for windows, and any other background programs running. A ps2 does not run anything in the background, and uses that entire 32 mb of ram for ffxi.

[Ilax]

You can't compare them. That 512 mb is including ram usage for windows, and any other background programs running. A ps2 does not run anything in the background, and uses that entire 32 mb of ram for ffxi.

still the same, remove 128meg max for background = 128available and 512-(128)= 384 meg available for the game.

CTRL-ALT-DEL and tell me how much memory your browser take? mine is firefox and take 355meg, of course Firefox could also run with 32 meg, but then hello all the swap none stop, which mean a terrible impact on performance.

[NightDagger]

i don't know why everyone cares about the PS2. Those of us that play on console's are not saying end the PC version. The PC players have a huge advantage to the game with their third party programs & windower. Now you may think that you are better players cause of it but if you consider cheating making you better then everyone, good for you.

Just face the fact that PS2 started the game & will always be there. i wish they would truly make FF online that was console only. End the cheating & arguing & let PC players play something alone....

[rog]

CTRL-ALT-DEL and tell me how much memory your browser take? mine is firefox and take 355meg, of course Firefox could also run with 32 meg, but then hello all the swap none stop, which mean a terrible impact on performance.
it doesn't need to run well, as long as it runs. Performance on ps2 is already shitty to begin with.

[rog]

i don't know why everyone cares about the PS2. Those of us that play on console's are not saying end the PC version.
Obviously not, since you wouldn't get anything out of that.

[Ilax]

Just face the fact that PS2 started the game & will always be there.

As WoW was Win98 and they dropped they support.


i wish they would truly make FF online that was console only. End the cheating & arguing & let PC players play something alone....

I guess my idea was not that bad.

[Randwolf]

i don't know why everyone cares about the PS2. Those of us that play on console's are not saying end the PC version. The PC players have a huge advantage to the game with their third party programs & windower. Now you may think that you are better players cause of it but if you consider cheating making you better then everyone, good for you.

Just face the fact that PS2 started the game & will always be there. i wish they would truly make FF online that was console only. End the cheating & arguing & let PC players play something alone....
No one is saying to end the PC version. What people are saying is that S/E is limited by PS2's limitations. Thus, making the game appear even more outdated. I was honestly against phasing out PS2 support. But with a precedent set by a competing company, my view is changing.

I'll also add that the PS2 limits the very basics in the game which, has become a major headache. So, instead of the new zone idea, they might as well go with the complete phasing out of PS2 support.

[NightDagger]

No one is saying to end the PC version. What people are saying is that S/E is limited by PS2's limitations. Thus, making the game appear even more outdated. I was honestly against phasing out PS2 support. But with a precedent set by a competing company, my view is changing.

I'll also add that the PS2 limits the very basics in the game which, has become a major headache. So, instead of the new zone idea, they might as well go with the complete phasing out of PS2 support.

Understand all that. Al I am saying is they have FFXIV with no PS2 limitations. You are playing a PS2 game on your PC & you expect them to end the PS2 support or exclude the PS2 players from getting new expansions while the rest of us get new areas to play in. It has good intentions but we all know that when we get a new area that is where 95% of the players hang out. So the PS2 players would only be able to play with each other then.

I hope when FFXIV is finished that they stick to their initial plans and make the PC players on their own server & console players (PS3 & 360) on a server together. That way in 15 years we do not have to listen to how the 360 is limiting the game blah blah blah.

On another note though, when FFXIV is completed & up to PS3 & 360 quality, I bet FFXI will take a huge hit on players. That could possibly be the start of the end of the game ^^

[Nephilipitou]

i don't know why everyone cares about the PS2. Those of us that play on console's are not saying end the PC version. The PC players have a huge advantage to the game with their third party programs & windower. Now you may think that you are better players cause of it but if you consider cheating making you better then everyone, good for you.

Just face the fact that PS2 started the game & will always be there. i wish they would truly make FF online that was console only. End the cheating & arguing & let PC players play something alone....

Bug off dude. Just playing on PC isn't making someone a cheater. I use PS2 controls with no 3rd party applications. PS2 players aren't calling for the end of PC players because they have no argument to stand on. Zero nada. Zilch. PC players hope that PS2 will be dropped because too often players ask for something, and Square Enix says "PS2 limitations" Why don't we have more auto-translate so we can communicate with players of other languages? "PS2 limitations" so they're deleting words to fix that. Why don't we get some better graphics? PS2 limitations. Why is Play Online so clunky? PS2 limitations. Why is the PC client not optimized for the PC? PS2 limitations that would cause conflicts.

That's probably the reason as well as to why we haven't gotten any new places to go since Vunkerl and Grauberg were added with WotG. A lot of people want to go to the Mithra Homelands of the Far East and find out more about their culture directly and see the story over there. We're not sure if we ever will, and a likely culprit is PS2 limitations. I've been trying to get more people to join FFXI that I know, but the graphics and system turn them off a bit to it. They would be more likely too if the game wasn't so dated looking, and once again that's PS2 limitations.

I don't know what Windower and the other thingies do specifically, but if they dropped support for PS2, then they could add features that some of those third party apps do. I've seen videos of people having their cool downs all on screen in a corner. I don't know how they do it, but ya know what? That'd be a great thing for the game to have built in. What's holding us back from that? PS2 STANDARD DEFINITION COMPATIBILITY LIMITATIONS!

Like I said I play the game on PC with a PS2 controller and a keyboard. Why do you want the game held back by the PS2? Why don't you want the game to be more liberated to expand, become enhanced graphically, and maybe even get new players in on it? What are you going to do when your PS2 INEVITABLY FAILS! Buy a new one and keep going? Get a laptop and play it that way? Upgrade your PC? Just play it on PC?

You wouldn't be posting on this forum if you didn't have a PC, and if the PC isn't 8 years old it can probably play FFXI and if PS2 support was dropped and they made the game more PC optimized the compatibility would increase substantially.

So tell me again what the argument is for keeping the PS2 compatibility around except for that almost 1/5 of the population plays on PS2 (a large segment of it is from Japan)

I thought about buying a PS2 copy and playing it using my PS3, however, finding a copy isn't that easy. I would like them to just drop PS2 support though and go about trying to rebuild the userbase by making the game look more on par with other MMOs or at least make the game run smoother on older equipment.

So it's less that PC players are cheating in many respects, and more that PS2 players are just limiting themselves and those who don't want to use 3rd party apps.

[rog]

Why don't we get some better graphics? PS2 limitations. Why is Play Online so clunky? PS2 limitations. Why is the PC client not optimized for the PC? PS2 limitations that would cause conflicts.None of these have to do with the ps2. Not sure why i need to keep repeating this. The pc version already uses different code than the ps2, with better quality graphics, etc.

[Ilax]

http://www.jpbutton.com/?page_id=3113

8% hmm.. how many user again are we, let say we are 200,000 * 92% = 184,000 player not on PS2 and 16,000 still on PS2, well 16,000 * 300$ = 4.8million to buy these ppl a new computer, 4.8million/ 200,000 player = 24$ each to upgrade them, 2$ fee /month for 1 yr for everyone to fix this issue..

300$ * 8% = 24$

Is everyone ready to pay 2$/month for a year, so we can get the game to move on? Seriously there no reason to keep PS2 support...

[Nephilipitou]

None of these have to do with the ps2. Not sure why i need to keep repeating this. The pc version already uses different code than the ps2, with better quality graphics, etc.

Yes they do. The texturing on the PC versions is just higher resolution and better anti-aliasing. There's a limit to how much the PS2 can handle. When I have pop in ingame, when I have people popping in when I'm in Jueno, it's not an issue with my PC. My PC isn't too slow, it's because the PS2 only has so much memory so it can't store 300 people and have them all running around simultaneously. It has a limited amount of depth that it can see into the horizon.

In WoW I had hundreds upon hundreds of people running around the Major cities and there wasn't much if any detriment to the frame rate. In FFXI I have to type commands to target people because they haven't popped in. That's not an issue with ANYTHING but the PS2 version. I guarantee it.

You are lying to yourself and others if you perpetuate that the PS2 has no impact on the PC version and It'd take me WAY too long to explain to you why, because if you were able to understand, you'd know already.

The code may be different on the PC, but it's not optimized for the PC. There are lots of problems with the code that are artifacts of the PS2 compatibility.

FFIV beta ran great on this computer. FFXI doesn't run as well as WoW or as well as one should expect.

[rog]

http://www.jpbutton.com/?page_id=3113

8% hmm.. how many user again are we, let say we are 200,000 * 92% = 184,000 player not on PS2 and 16,000 still on PS2, well 16,000 * 300$ = 4.8million to buy these ppl a new computer, 4.8million/ 200,000 player = 24$ each to upgrade them, 2$ fee /month for 1 yr for everyone to fix this issue..

300$ * 8% = 24$

Anyone ready to pay 2$/month for a year, so we can get the game to move on? Seriously there no reason to keep PS2 support...Alternatively we could buy new video cards for them, which would cost an extra $1 for 1 month. Maybe factor in people who don't have a computer at all, and it'd be something like 2-3 total per person.

[rog]

Yes they do. The texturing on the PC versions is just higher resolution and better anti-aliasing. There's a limit to how much the PS2 can handle. When I have pop in ingame, when I have people popping in when I'm in Jueno, it's not an issue with my PC. My PC isn't too slow, it's because the PS2 only has so much memory so it can't store 300 people and have them all running around simultaneously. It has a limited amount of depth that it can see into the horizon.

In WoW I had hundreds upon hundreds of people running around the Major cities and there wasn't much if any detriment to the frame rate. In FFXI I have to type commands to target people because they haven't popped in. That's not an issue with ANYTHING but the PS2 version. I guarantee it.

You are lying to yourself and others if you perpetuate that the PS2 has no impact on the PC version and It'd take me WAY too long to explain to you why, because if you were able to understand, you'd know already.

The code may be different on the PC, but it's not optimized for the PC. There are lots of problems with the code that are artifacts of the PS2 compatibility.There is nothing stopped them from allowing the pc version from drawing more characters/further distances/etc without touching the ps2 version.

No, it's not optimized for pc, but only because SE is too lazy to do that, not because they need to keep the code the same as the ps2's (lul, it's already fairly different).

[NightDagger]

Nephilipitou,

Thanks for that little burp. I can not play on a PC as I own a Mac. i play on a 360, would play on PS3 if I could. I do still own a PS2 & also use that if a friend comes over & wants to play. The fact that you are unable to accept the fact that PS2 only limits the game in a manner you see fit is irrelevant.

The graphics are 10x better on the 360 then PS2, so how is PS2 limiting that? I am sure they could add new area's & will do so without telling us the PS2 is limiting them from that as well. There are really very little the PS2 is limiting & i do not know how you can have an argument with someone about a game that is 9 years old & expect it to look like a game that is 1 years old. Cause I own a 2001 jeep should I expect dodge to upgrade me cause I am unable to do the things a 2010 jeep can? If you are that unhappy with how a game looks & plays then go play something more recent. Heck I still play FFVII on my PS3 but am not complaining that the graphics suck & they should upgrade these for me.

[Ilax]

Alternatively we could buy new video cards for them, which would cost an extra $1 for 1 month. Maybe factor in people who don't have a computer at all, and it'd be something like 2-3 total per person.

Even if they would charge me 5$ per month for a year to fix this issue, i would not mind. I mean i am poor as .... and i still would be ready to pay because to me is worth the money to see new graphic/zone/performance in FFXI.

[rog]

i do not know how you can have an argument with someone about a game that is 9 years old & expect it to look like a game that is 1 years old. Cause I own a 2001 jeep should I expect dodge to upgrade me cause I am unable to do the things a 2010 jeep can?
If you pay dodge a monthly fee to keep it updated, then yes, you should.

[Ilax]

There are really very little the PS2 is limiting & i do not know how you can have an argument with someone about a game that is 9 years old & expect it to look like a game that is 1 years old. Cause I own a 2001 jeep should I expect dodge to upgrade me cause I am unable to do the things a 2010 jeep can? If you are that unhappy with how a game looks & plays then go play something more recent. Heck I still play FFVII on my PS3 but am not complaining that the graphics suck & they should upgrade these for me.

Go check WoW and tell me about it, i did not see yet how is going into EQ1, but i bet is not same garbage looking at it was when it came out. You can't compare your jeep with RPG.


If you pay dodge a monthly fee to keep it updated, then yes, you should.

/amen

[NightDagger]

If you pay dodge a monthly fee to keep it updated, then yes, you should.

but they can change the PC code to justify this problem without having to worry about PS2 limitations. The codes are different & it is just the fact they can't be bothered to tweak them to allow more depth for the PC or 360.

I see a lot of the things people are blaming on PS2 limitations is not really a problem. Thy could easily fix this with some code tweaking 7 anyone on PC or 360 could get a graphics upgrade, better depth & such.

[Ilax]

I see a lot of the things people are blaming on PS2 limitations is not really a problem. Thy could easily fix this with some code tweaking 7 anyone on PC or 360 could get a graphics upgrade, better depth & such.

there a limit on tweaking, 32meg of ram, i think is enough said right there, is already amazing they got able to go that far with only that.

[rog]

but they can change the PC code to justify this problem without having to worry about PS2 limitations. The codes are different & it is just the fact they can't be bothered to tweak them to allow more depth for the PC or 360.

I see a lot of the things people are blaming on PS2 limitations is not really a problem. Thy could easily fix this with some code tweaking 7 anyone on PC or 360 could get a graphics upgrade, better depth & such.
So, you're one of the .1% of people that actually have some idea of what limitations are actually imposed by the ps2? Gotcha.

[rog]

there a limit on tweaking, 32meg of ram, i think is enough said right there, is already amazing they got able to go that far with only that.
Except only the ps2 version needs to run within 32 mb of ram. The pc version already does not even come close to that, usually taking 3-5x more.

[Nephilipitou]

but they can change the PC code to justify this problem without having to worry about PS2 limitations. The codes are different & it is just the fact they can't be bothered to tweak them to allow more depth for the PC or 360.

I see a lot of the things people are blaming on PS2 limitations is not really a problem. Thy could easily fix this with some code tweaking 7 anyone on PC or 360 could get a graphics upgrade, better depth & such.

Not true. what so ever. Auto-translate is a feature that is not upgraded because if they added more words PS2 players wouldn't be able to see them, and that's part of the problem, because people in Japan play on PS2 more often than PC, and we're trying to communicate largely with Japanese players so that there's less of a communication barrier when trying to do quests. Square Enix said flat out that they have to delete words in Auto-Translate in order to add more words into it.

That's just a simple demonstration of PS2 limitations effecting everyone. A French Player and an American player who don't understand each others languages have a harder time communicating that could be alleviated from more auto-translate.

Those are just a library of words, it's not even rendering ANYTHING. There is no graphical issue, the RAM issue is limited, but it's a clear definable demonstration of how the PS2 is holding back the other version and how this would not be rectifiable. There are plenty of other examples, but then again if I explain them they'd go over your heads.

Here's a hint. It has to do with databases and other such underlying architecture.

[Ilax]

Except only the ps2 version needs to run within 32 mb of ram. The pc version already does not even come close to that, usually taking 3-5x more.

They do because Game take advantage of extra memory, but it could run as low as 32 meg ram available too -.-

[Juri_Licious]

All this boils down to is PS2 players trying to make excuses and not understanding how hardware works.
Also not understanding how a 100 dollar computer can play FFXI flawlessly as can a 200 dollar laptop.

Give up, it's going to happen eventually even if you don't like it.
I suggest trying to get a computer now but, even so you're posting posts on a forum so you MUST have a computer unless you're on a phone.

If you pay for a monthly game, and a monthly internet bill you can afford a 100 dollar computer or 200 dollar laptop.
Stop holding almost the entirety of the FFXI population because YOU don't want to move on.
This isn't about YOU, it's about FFXI being held back due to the PS2's hardware standards.

Stop lying to yourself and just admit you don't want to move on to a Computer or a Xbox 360 because of YOU.

[Randwolf]

Not true. what so ever. Auto-translate is a feature that is not upgraded because if they added more words PS2 players wouldn't be able to see them, and that's part of the problem, because people in Japan play on PS2 more often than PC, and we're trying to communicate largely with Japanese players so that there's less of a communication barrier when trying to do quests. Square Enix said flat out that they have to delete words in Auto-Translate in order to add more words into it.

That's just a simple demonstration of PS2 limitations effecting everyone. A French Player and an American player who don't understand each others languages have a harder time communicating that could be alleviated from more auto-translate.

Those are just a library of words, it's not even rendering ANYTHING. There is no graphical issue, the RAM issue is limited, but it's a clear definable demonstration of how the PS2 is holding back the other version and how this would not be rectifiable. There are plenty of other examples, but then again if I explain them they'd go over your heads.
I believe they also said the amount of slots available in each kind of storage, Bag, Satchel, Safe, etc. was also impacted by the PS2. And, why they have had to find alternative storage methods.

[NightDagger]

Except only the ps2 version needs to run within 32 mb of ram. The pc version already does not even come close to that, usually taking 3-5x more.

Yeah do people think they just took the PS2 version of the game and reformatted it for PC & 360?

They have made a lot of adjustments to make it run more smoothly on PC & the 360. Heck my 360 freezes after running the game for 8+ hours, I have to hook my ipod up to it and play music in order for the system to read the disc again. This a code issue with the 360 that has been around for awhile now but they have yet to rectify this.

Your PC is using more then 32mb of Ram to play the game. So to blame everything on the 32 mb ram the PS2 has is nuts.

OK the PS2 may not be able to handle alot of the upgrades people want, but they could change that for PC & 360 players. Now adding new area's that PS2 players can not access is just wrong though.

[Dazusu]

Really, why bother with designing challenging content if all we're going to do is skip as much of it as possible?

Because it's not within human nature to "gimp" yourself. You're always going to use the method that works best. The problem is that SE designed monsters that can be killed that way.

When people start walking to work instead of driving, then you can argue your point. Until then, understand that people aren't going to make things harder for themselves.

[Coldbrand]

But not adding new areas because of ps2 users holding everyone back is right. Ok.

[Ilax]

All this boils down to is PS2 players trying to make excuses and not understanding how hardware works.
Also not understanding how a 100 dollar computer can play FFXI flawlessly as can a 200 dollar laptop.

Give up, it's going to happen eventually even if you don't like it.
I suggest trying to get a computer now but, even so you're posting posts on a forum so you MUST have a computer unless you're on a phone.

If you pay for a monthly game, and a monthly internet bill you can afford a 100 dollar computer or 200 dollar laptop.
Stop holding almost the entirety of the FFXI population because YOU don't want to move on.
This isn't about YOU, it's about FFXI being held back due to the PS2's hardware standards.

Stop lying to yourself and just admit you don't want to move on to a Computer or a Xbox 360 because of YOU.

Right, and is even worse when is at the point where everyone could only pay a 2$ extra to get them upgraded, i just don't get it is all... SE really need to do something about it, i am really shocked that only 8% are still on PS2.

Let face number (say SE have 200,000 user)

92% = 184,000 * 15$/month = 2,760,000$ we pay per month...
8% = 16,000 * 15$/month = 240,000$ they pay per month...

And all SE do is keep supporting PS2, i am sorry but this is just shocking, even worse if SE have 500k+ player. Like i said, i am sure no one would care at all to pay a stupid 2$/month for a yr only to get this 'FFXI being held back' issue fixed.

[NightDagger]

All this boils down to is PS2 players trying to make excuses and not understanding how hardware works.
Also not understanding how a 100 dollar computer can play FFXI flawlessly as can a 200 dollar laptop.

Give up, it's going to happen eventually even if you don't like it.
I suggest trying to get a computer now but, even so you're posting posts on a forum so you MUST have a computer unless you're on a phone.

If you pay for a monthly game, and a monthly internet bill you can afford a 100 dollar computer or 200 dollar laptop.
Stop holding almost the entirety of the FFXI population because YOU don't want to move on.
This isn't about YOU, it's about FFXI being held back due to the PS2's hardware standards.

Stop lying to yourself and just admit you don't want to move on to a Computer or a Xbox 360 because of YOU.

I do not and never will own a PC. I paid almost 5k for my mac and I love it. I do own an Xbox 360, along with a PS3. I DO play the game on my 360 but still have the PS2 fully updated for when friends or my wife would like to play.

Ending the Ps2 support would not affect me at all, but I still feel the fundamentals of doing so is wrong.

Call me what you want, and say what you will but it is MY OPINION and I am entitled to it.

[Nephilipitou]

Here's a list of things that could be fixed.

Less pop in
Faster load times
No more play online viewer, or a better version of play online viewer
a more robust messaging system
No more having half if not more of Jueno being ghosts due to inability to render everyone
No more hit detection problems when AoE is being used on like 20+ enemies.
More U.I. tweaks to make things easier
More U.I. Customizability to make things more versatile.
Less testing needed, bug hunting, and trouble shooting.
Opprotunity to add more worlds to the game, new lands, and maybe even new quest types that may not be possible on PS2 hardware.
and so much more could be yours for the low low price of playing on a better platform.

Now what's the argument against other than some people may have to get an old computer for cheap or a 360 to play?


Since FF XIV started off as a project to upgrade the graphics off FFXI it's not as if there's no desire in Square Enix to give the game a more updated look. Once again though that would have led to the PS2 being abandoned and so once again the PS2 is holding everything back.


I do not and never will own a PC. I paid almost 5k for my mac and I love it. I do own an Xbox 360, along with a PS3. I DO play the game on my 360 but still have the PS2 fully updated for when friends or my wife would like to play.

Ending the Ps2 support would not affect me at all, but I still feel the fundamentals of doing so is wrong.

Call me what you want, and say what you will but it is MY OPINION and I am entitled to it.



A mac is a PC. It is a personal Computer. You can install bootcamp, and load up windows of your choice, and voila...

Heck imagine if they made a mac client or even a linux client when they drop PS2 support? Your opinion is that people should just deal with subscribers decreasing, and having a hard time getting new subscribers because of the aged qualities of the game, and that FFXI should not be trying to prevent or slow its demise down at all by making the game look newer and fresher to show people who abandoned it that they are still committed to making a quality product better and to get more new blood interested?

That's your argument? That FFXI should continue getting realatively worse every year by the standards of the rest of the MMOs improving every year, while FFXI holds its ground to stay an artifact of the PS2 generation rather than continue to evolve and progress?

Not a very good opinion IMO.

I'll never understand why people pay 5k for a mac. I paid 1.5 k if you combine the price of my computer, a new power supply, a new video card, a new hard drive, 2 monitors, my keyboards, etcetera. It can even handle FF XIV.

2k is the upper limit I'd pay. Are you a photo, video, or music creator?

[Haldarn]

I suggest trying to get a computer now but, even so you're posting posts on a forum so you MUST have a computer unless you're on a phone.
Ironically, even my phone has 256MB of RAM and a 16GB HDD - and that's 2 1/2 years old.

So yah, FFXI for iPhone plz!

[Ilax]

Ironically, even my phone has 256MB of RAM and a 16GB HDD - and that's 2 1/2 years old.

So yah, FFXI for iPhone plz!

rofl they should support it at this point i agree.

[Nephilipitou]

Ironically, even my phone has 256MB of RAM and a 16GB HDD - and that's 2 1/2 years old.

So yah, FFXI for iPhone plz!

16GB is just not enough storage. An android app would be great though. Cause lets face it. I've got 32GB and I can throw in a 32-64GB chip if I need to. :P

[Nephilipitou]

Your PC is using more then 32mb of Ram to play the game. So to blame everything on the 32 mb ram the PS2 has is nuts.


Wrong it's not nuts. What the PS2 can do limits what the PC and 360 versions can handle due to the fact that they all have to play together which means that there are things that could be done on the PC and 360 versions that could not be accomplished due to PS2 compatibility issues.

Not adding places at all because PS2 players wouldn't be able to go there, is just wrong. Way more wrong. More people are effected, there's less of a reason for it, and everyone suffers rather than just some.

It'd be like saying "Ok class the field trip to China is cancelled because one of the student's parents religion is against us going there. So none of us are allowed to go"

[rog]

Not adding places at all because PS2 players wouldn't be able to go there, is just wrong. Way more wrong. More people are effected, there's less of a reason for it, and everyone suffers rather than just some.
Except there is no possible way they could add an area that wasn't compatible with the ps2. A new zone requires them to increment a variable which goes up to 65335. That's it. Nothing else.

[Ilax]

Except there is no possible way they could add an area that wasn't compatible with the ps2. A new zone requires them to increment a variable which goes up to 65335. That's it. Nothing else.

Except if that new zone would support more 'translation word', would support more texture/geometry that go higher then the 32meg max that PS2 can offer, i doubt i need to tell you all the limitation that is related to a 32meg memory, because i know that won't change your opinion, as it been said if you would understand you won't keep going to defend PS2.

[rog]

Except if that new zone would support more 'translation word', would support more texture/geometry that go higher then the 32meg max that PS2 can offer, i doubt i need to tell you all the limitation that is related to a 32meg memory, because i know that won't change your opinion, as it been said if you would understand you won't keep going to defend PS2.
You want auto translates that only work in a certain zone? wat

They can easily just not have the ps2 load as many textures at once if needed. Not sure why that would be a problem.

[Ilax]

You want auto translates that only work in a certain zone? wat

They can easily just not have the ps2 load as many textures at once if needed. Not sure why that would be a problem.

True on that, i mean they could make everyone look the same, 1 armor/texture onry, everyone look the same on PS2, but again that is just buying some time till they reach another limit, that not really fixing the issue, and i doubt PS2 player would appreciate such of change too, but i guess could be a temp solution until PS2/PS3 reach 1%...

[Soulrunner]

Here's a solution, a final solution.

SE: "We like to thank all our loyal players for their continued support of FFXI, We would like to announce that we are working on the next full Expansion to FFXI for the "Xbox 360, PC, and PS3" systems. We regrettably must announce that the next expansion will not support the PS2 system, although you may continue to play FFXI up to the most recent prior expansion, this system will be incompatible with further expansions. Thank you"

That's all they have to do, make a full expansion and exclude ps2 from it, but offer the game with next expansion for ps3 as an alternative. Hell i'd buy it.

[Ilax]

Exactly what i was saying with new zone for none-PS2 user, and i find this fair enough since 92% player base are not on PS2/PS3. I still think is less brutal then totally tell them that SE don't support them at all.

Of course that will cost SE $$$ for development, but they don't have to redo a complete new game with 100 new zone, just 2~3 new zone as beta-release would be already a net progress. And if is not perfect day 1 (as it was the case of 14) who care? We still have our old zone without bug available to play. In the end i am sure that would increase player base of FFXI which is sadly maybe not anymore they prio with 14 :(

[Randwolf]

Exactly what i was saying with new zone for none-PS2 user, and i find this fair enough since 92% player base are not on PS2/PS3. I still think is less brutal then totally tell them that SE don't support them at all.

Of course that will cost SE $$$ for development, but they don't have to redo a complete new game with 100 new zone, just 2~3 new zone as beta-release would be already a net progress. And if is not perfect day 1 (as it was the case of 14) who care? We still have our old zone without bug available to play. In the end i am sure that would increase player base of FFXI which is sadly maybe not anymore they prio with 14 :(
Kind of ridiculous to create new zones for non-PS2 when the basics are still gimped. You suddenly have 90 spaces in your sack when you enter the new zone? When you exit, where do those extra 10 items go? And, that's just one issue.

[Ilax]

Kind of ridiculous to create new zones for non-PS2 when the basics are still gimped. You suddenly have 90 spaces in your sack when you enter the new zone? When you exit, where do those extra 10 items go? And, that's just one issue.

Who say they have to start with this? Just an environment with better graphic, new battle system, (who know, you can jump in the new zone!, There new crazy emote) You can have LS with more then 64 player, The zone is impossible HUGE with zillion monster without facing a BLACK OUT screen saying: Loading. New PVP system that allow you to change gear. Who the hell know what they can put in these zone that would obviously not affect when you zone back... As i say you can get new gear with same stats, they just look almost same when you zone in old content (just the color is different) but in new zone they look crazy.

Also note that buy time for SE/DEV, they can work on a new world with free testing (kinda) i mean if people don't like they still have access to old content and will still pay they fee/month, and eventually PS2 will die and SE will have more option like increase SAC space and so on.

[Randwolf]

Who say they have to start with this? Just an environment with better graphic, new battle system, (who know, you can jump in the new zone!, There new crazy emote) You can have LS with more then 64 player, The zone is impossible HUGE with zillion monster without facing a BLACK OUT screen saying: Loading. New PVP system that allow you to change gear. Who the hell know what they can put in these zone that would obviously not affect when you zone back... As i say you can get new gear with same stats, they just look almost same when you zone in old content (just the color is different) but in new zone they look crazy.

Also note that buy time for SE/DEV, they can work on a new world with free testing (kinda) i mean if people don't like they still have access to old content and will still pay they fee/month, and eventually PS2 will die and SE will have more option like increase SAC space and so on.

I just see this as adding an extra layer of complexity to the programming because now everything that works in the new zone would have to be figured into how it behaves outside the zone. Just cut PS2 if you are going to cut it so you don't create a ton more issues every time something new is added. Or, keep supporting PS2 and figure it into all future content.

[Ilax]

I just see this as adding an extra layer of complexity to the programming because now everything that works in the new zone would have to be figured into how it behaves outside the zone. Just cut PS2 if you are going to cut it so you don't create a ton more issues every time something new is added. Or, keep supporting PS2 and figure it into all future content.

That add nothing complex to coding >< I bet you anything DEV spend 90% of they time to figure how they going to fit next expansion on PS2. Make new engine take time of course, but no matter what they have to do it eventually, better start now then later... Or wait, do you think FFXI will die with PS2?, in that case FFXI is already dead and there really no point to any new player to start playing it, then only FF14 is left, but that also a bad news.

[Randwolf]

That add nothing complex to coding >< I bet you anything DEV spend 90% of they time to figure how they going to fit next expansion on PS2.
I doubt it. You normally would start with your most restrictive parameters and expand to the other operating systems, which allow you to do more. There was a reason WoW stopped Windows 98 support 'cold turkey' instead of zone by zone, as you suggest.

[annewandering]

If there is no problem with ps2s now then why do the ps2 players have so much trouble lately with updates? SE has bent over backwards to keep FFXI on as many platforms as possible but one of these days people are just going to have to realize that even Atari bit the dust. Just because some people still have Ataris is no reason for game makers to decide to port modern games to them any more than they should be held to a product as old as ps2. Even Play Station has moved on.
What we need is a way to phase them out gradually so the ps2 users can have time to replace their old consoles. Those consoles really are going to die eventually and some people just need a bit of incentive to change type of machine.

[NightDagger]

A mac is a PC. It is a personal Computer. You can install bootcamp, and load up windows of your choice, and voila...


2k is the upper limit I'd pay. Are you a photo, video, or music creator?

I love bootcamp but can't rely on my wife making sure she turns the fan speed up (she alread friend the HDD & video card on me once)

And yes I take wedding photo's & family photo's with my mother in-law & make dvd's for them.

[NightDagger]

Exactly what i was saying with new zone for none-PS2 user, and i find this fair enough since 92% player base are not on PS2/PS3. I still think is less brutal then totally tell them that SE don't support them at all.

Of course that will cost SE $$$ for development, but they don't have to redo a complete new game with 100 new zone, just 2~3 new zone as beta-release would be already a net progress. And if is not perfect day 1 (as it was the case of 14) who care? We still have our old zone without bug available to play. In the end i am sure that would increase player base of FFXI which is sadly maybe not anymore they prio with 14 :(

Not trying to flam or troll, just That JP Button site has to be off. It stats that 30% of JP users are playing on PS2. but it is only 6%? must be old data or they are saying hardly any JP's play lol

Just something I read & have a hard time believing.

Oh and SE stated last year that FFXI will be fully supported until 2013 & they have already got new full expansion in the development. After 2013 they do not what will happen, it will depend solely on the player base at that time.

So this means that they have zero intention of eliminating the PS2 & are still goingto continue to work around there limitations. (I will search for the press release this is stated in, I know it was one from when FFXIV was getting ready for Alpha Testing)

[Zyeriis]

Not trying to flam or troll, just That JP Button site has to be off. It stats that 30% of JP users are playing on PS2. but it is only 6%? must be old data or they are saying hardly any JP's play lol

Just something I read & have a hard time believing.

Oh and SE stated last year that FFXI will be fully supported until 2013 & they have already got new full expansion in the development. After 2013 they do not what will happen, it will depend solely on the player base at that time.

So this means that they have zero intention of eliminating the PS2 & are still goingto continue to work around there limitations. (I will search for the press release this is stated in, I know it was one from when FFXIV was getting ready for Alpha Testing)

That 30% statistic is from 2 years ago, from a survey. I wouldn't take that seriously at all.
That "expansion pack" is Abbysea I'm about 95% sure on that, considering that was over a year ago.

[NightDagger]

That 30% statistic is from 2 years ago, from a survey. I wouldn't take that seriously at all.
That "expansion pack" is Abbysea I'm about 95% sure on that, considering that was over a year ago.

Tough to say cause the first Abyssea was already out with the second following soon. But I also can not confirm whether it is or is not.

[Nataskiller]

I was thinking about it, SE could make totally new zone for none-PS2 player, those new zone would have new graphic/monster/texture etc.

Let say the same gear would drop from these zone, let say that could be NEW abyssea alternative for everyone that is not playing on PS2 console. I think that would open a new world for DEV, and also could interest tons of new player, without leaving PS2 support, also note how it would decrease zone occupation.

Some of you might remember many of my comment saying how this game need a better challenge, this would open the door for it :) New monster could be harder for the same gear stats but they have different color/texture, so in the end it could interest back the hardcore player.

for sure all this is possible, the real question is if SE have the $$$ for a project like that, but what you guys think about the idea?

we all wish it was that easy...but sadly that would mess with the whole community its like runescape...you have to buy membership to access certain area's armor and mobs and crafting skills and magic...just completely not fair for people who still own and play off a PS2...if anything SE should implement a option for PC and XBOX360 users to turn up graphics?

[Nephilipitou]

we all wish it was that easy...but sadly that would mess with the whole community its like runescape...you have to buy membership to access certain area's armor and mobs and crafting skills and magic...just completely not fair for people who still own and play off a PS2...if anything SE should implement a option for PC and XBOX360 users to turn up graphics?

Graphics alone isn't enough. The devs need the freedom to make the game how they want to. Not to just make the game within the defined parameters. Imagine cutting down or even eliminating load times. Imagine more convenient item storages NPCs, or even ways to have item storage without needing NPCs. Imagine a redesigned interface that doesn't have to be compatible with 640x480 or lower displays (PS2 resolution) imagine being able to customize the interface, imagine just more freedom for them to make the game better. Imagine Auto-translate for every Abyssea NM Atma, etcetera as well as every NM involved in a Magian Trial or the items for those as well. Imagine not just the ability to have text chat with linkshells, parties, or friends, but being able to do voice chat as well, but without having to add a ton of people to a Ventrillo Client, or Skype etcetera. Maybe even a better PVP system, and especially faster version updates since they wouldn't have to test everything on PS2 every time.


I love bootcamp but can't rely on my wife making sure she turns the fan speed up (she alread friend the HDD & video card on me once)

And yes I take wedding photo's & family photo's with my mother in-law & make dvd's for them.

I wouldn't really call Family Photo DVDs something that requires a 5k mac. I was talking more of like higher end video editing and music editing. Do you just use mac because you like the O.S.? Do you use it because you hate Windows? Do you actually need Mac O.S.? Or is there some other reason. Right now I'm just curious.

If you have an iPhone, regularly use iTunes and have or are thinking of getting an iPad you can just say "I'm an Apple kinda guy" and i'll understand. I personally was about to switch to apple, but then, they pissed me off with their control freakiness and so I just stuck with windows. After Windows 7 came out I was really happy with that decision. Apple products just aren't for me.

[NightDagger]

No it is more professional photography. My mother in-law takes the pictures & I do ALL the editing on my Mac. Plus make the DVDs.

But yes OSx is amazing. i am apple all the way. You really do not know what you a missing until you own one. Took me about a month to get everything figured out on this & man let me tell you the things it can do is great. Not to mention that when editing photo's the graphics are unbeatable, the programs are greatly improved. Not to mention that if I want to fix a little blurb on someones forehead, i am able to zoom in to an extreme close up with little pixel lose. This allows me to get right in there when trying to get the best skin/color match to edit with.

I wish you lived close by I would let you actually see what a Mac can do. But yes I do want an IPad also lol. Wish apple would come out with a gaming console (they are saying in 2013 it will release, japan got one in 1995 I think but it flopped). Bet it would be very pricey but just amazing.

But in all seriousness a 5k mac is not that unheard of. A 27 inch IMac, with 16 GB Ram, 2.93 Ghz Quad Core, 2 TB Hdd with built in 256 GB Time Machine drive, add the mighty mouse & key pad, office 211, file manager & photoshop you are looking at 5-6k before tax. (time machine is awesome as it does real time backup if you would like it to)

[KorPoni]

It's completely natural that systems become out of date as game developers stop making games for that console, and we keep moving up to newer, better consoles. I really believe they should make "Final Fantasy XI-2" and allow players to choose to move their characters to the new game, where it's basically the same old game with expanded content, but it not support older systems like PS2, or just stay in FFXI with it's content at the limit it's allowed with PS2. If PS2 has alot more room for content as I'm seeing alot of people claiming, this obviously won't need to be done for a good while.


i dont even think the game has hit half of the PS2 HD capacity yet. Unless there is some sort of LIMIT to the space that its allowed to use on it, they have plenty plenty plenty of room on it, i seriously think it hasnt reached 20 gigs, and its capacity is 40.

I mean at some point your all going to be crying that the XBOX 360 is limiting the game, this is why you dont bring MMO's to consoles really, a PC is forever expanding, unlimited growth, systems have breaking points. Why we have an MMO that is cross console to PC networking is beyond me. But crap happens, oh well.

XBox 360 is the only console atm that doesn't have a real memory limit. Microsoft can just keep making newer, bigger hard drives. If PS2 harddrives weren't so out of date, Sony would really be able to do that too.

Edit: Alot of players of PS2 version are starting to play their PS2 versions on PS3, so I think SE should simply make a PS3 version. The reality is this: alot of players either hate XBox360 or can't afford a computer. But with a PS3 version, they could play a much larger content base, better graphics, and don't hafta resort to 360 for these things.

[NightDagger]

I refused to buy a 360 for years. Was Sony all the way, but broke down & got one now and have to say that I love it. I still have certain series of games that I will ONLY play on PS3 cause the graphics, sound through home theater and everything is better (to me anyways).

I also wish a PS3 version would come out. I would switch from 360 to that hands down (then my wife could play CoD & kill zombies all day as well lol)

[rog]

XBox 360 is the only console atm that doesn't have a real memory limit. Microsoft can just keep making newer, bigger hard drives. If PS2 harddrives weren't so out of date, Sony would really be able to do that too.
Ignoring the fact that you confused HDD space with memory, ALL systems use the same hard drives computers use, and can use HDDs up to 2 TB each.

[Rambus]

This just cant happen, and everyones idea of just, hey just make it not available to PS2 users is an impossible and unfair limitation. Its horrible business practice. For people who just cant afford to get a computer, that leaves them limited to the amount of fun, content, and almost not played with anymore becuase if this were to happen, everyone would go to the new areas and leave the PS2 players in the dust. Eventually what is going to HAVE to happen, whether they like it or not, is they will have to cut off the support to the PS2 and it most likely WILL happen, but of course, its going to be a while before they make a decision like that. It wont happen until they are absolutely positively sure that they can still make a buck on the services, and in order to do that, the content has to stay rewarding for players to keep playing, and if its not too large to fit into the PS2, the PS2 will live on until it is deemed impossible for the game to expand when they are planning to expand.

ok let me ask you what is best:
1. shutting the game down
2. Getting rid of Ps2 support so it is ps3 only
3. giving new content that ps2 can't acess
4. deleating 75 content instances.

to me the bad business practice is bowing down to 10% of your total revenue or w/e.
do sony even make ps2 or sell replacement hard drives? really no reason to support the ps2 anymore, when your p2 brakes its prob best to buy a ps3 to replace it.

[Yarly]

http://parchmentpaper.blogspot.com/2011/03/explaining-why-reskinned-graphics-dont.html#more

just a post i found, it's not mine.

[Ranadir]

I agree, is in some sense a bit crude for PS2 not be able to join new zone, but could be worse... Eventually they wont have choice to swap, is same as i said before, PS2 can't play 14 and please don't get to conclusion is reason why 14 is not a great success ><

Hmmm, i kinda lost track of Everyquest.... IS EQ1 still more popular then EQ2? If yes, then i guess SE should learn about this, i know EQ2 had very hard time at start...

Anyway, EQ1 never died and will probably never since company still put new content in it none stop, for XI it seem they won't have that luck till they make the right choice, and to say people will start play 14 just to get ride of limitation, is like dreaming. I would rather play something totally new instead, which involve totally new monster, totally new concept...

in my head is clear, i end to spend too many year into XI to restart all over again in 14. Is not like i only loose progress i did, but also loosing my friend-environment.

Nah EQ2 has/had a larger player base, at least until they easymoded the content in the last 2 expansions.

[Detoxy]

as ive stated b4 in other threads the ps2 is a washed up old hunk of junk it needs to be used as a door stop its way more usefull that way people stop trying to breath life into this old machine let it die as it should have long ago