Demilune Abyssite after each fight is 100% Upgrades to the next Tier, Please!

[Krashport]

Could we put an end to this time-sink, we have better things to do with our time and money. Make it that all Abyssites upgrade to the next tier 100% after each fight and stop with the randomness. I've gone 0/20+ without upgrading and did not have a T3 in possession. Please and Thank you. :(

[RAIST]

or at the very least, bind it to red proc or something...having it wholly controlled by the crappy RNG is just absurd.

[Angellus]

I agree with Krashport, the current system sucks! Please fix this and while you're at it, all "random" stuff in this game!

[Merton9999]

Agreed! The one/two drop chance on tier 3 is enough random "fun" for a several-year-old activity. Upgrades should happen on the first kill on tier 2 -> 3, even if it's tied to a proc.

[Midorikaze]

As a witness to just how long it can take, I'm all for this as well. 100% upgrade is a superb idea.

[Ladyofdragons]

I wholeheartedly agree with Krashport, This would be very beneficial and help with the traffic on upgrading too.:)

[Draconas]

I have to whole heartily agree with Krashport on this subject. The introduction of voidwalker notorious monters (VNMs) was an interesting aspect to the game, but the mechanics in which are used to make these notorious monsters (NMs) to spawn are in a dire need of an upgrade/overview. Now having said that I am not just going to say "We need change! Change! Change!" and and not give valid points toward the issue. Lets stay on subject and just talk about the VNMs in Abyssea, I wont talk about the ones outside which can be another nightmare sometimes. If a player wanted to make an Empyrean weapon they would go and farm up the pops for the NMs. During this farming most of the pops for these NMs are spawned through key items which are usually gained by killing another notorious monster. They can be given usually 100% of the time if you stagger the NM with a red proc. Some of the trophy/item NMs require many key items some only one. One could argue that then trying to change the tier/color of the key items that spawn VNMs is framing, however there is no guarantee of a change. You can get treasure hunter on it, you can proc it red, yellow, and/or blue, you can do a dance around the VNM, you can bribe it, you can use harsh language, etc etc, but it is totally random. It may only take one time or it could take twenty plus times! There needs to be an introduction of procing red on the VNMs to increasing the chance of upgrading the key items. My next topic on this subject is the number of VNMs spawns compared to the number of NMs spawns in Abyssea. Most of the Empyrean weapon NMs have three "???" location to force spawn them from with a five minute re-time on those locations after the NM is defeated. VNMs have a ten to fifteen minute re pop time. If people go out in a group to spawn these NMs, either regular or voidwalker, and are solely going for the trophies/items you can pop three of the NMs to only one VNM. I am not going to discuss how to play the game and what is the best way to kill such and such NMs but I am just saying that you can clearly get more done fighting the NMs vs fighting the VNMs in less time. Thank you for taking the time to read my long winded post and I am sure that other players would appreciate this change to the game that will increase their overall game experience to a more positive note.

[Daniel]

I agree with the red proc part.

[XiahouOdin]

Fully support this, at least bind it to red weakness!

[pim-ptarutaru]

my longest for T1->T2 is like 1/92... True story lol. I would like it that something would change on this as well!

[Kielee]

I agree with the red proc or some sort of quicker upgrade method. Not only is it way too time consuming getting the items you need but the constant battling with people we're meant to play with is becoming an issue when it's a fighting game spawning and hoping for an upgrade... multiple times. This is one system that should be looked at.

[Stuntmandan]

I'm totally with Krashport on this! Proc system would work out great since that's what Abyssea is all about anyway.

[Demon6324236]

or at the very least, bind it to red proc or something...having it wholly controlled by the crappy RNG is just absurd.This is how it should be, red procs force the KI like everything else, that way people can do it quickly with a good group. If SE really wants to fight congestion... here you are.

[Duelle]

I'll extend my support to this thread. +1 for the OP.

[Hayward]

I can go for this only so long as T2 NMs color changes are tied exclusively to red !! triggers. Some people need those NMs for seal-hunting and get burned by the abyssite changing on one NM.

[Krashport]

I can go for this only so long as T2 NMs color changes are tied exclusively to red !! triggers. Some people need those NMs for seal-hunting and get burned by the abyssite changing on one NM.

You could always hold a T3 in your temp items. Then a T2 will never upgrade as long as you're holding that T3 of said zone.

[Eital]

Won't happen. I'd like it to too, though. Liked.

[Shadax]

Because I've dealt with SE for so long, I understand this is supposed to be a method of alleviating congestion on higher tiers in that there are less people competing for those monsters because they are busy trying to upgrade their clear/colorful. So while it's the wrong thing to do, I at least understand why they are doing it. Of course the correct solution would be to up the change rate of the abyssites by 50% and make all tiers respawn a minute after being popped.

They alleviate congestion by having multiple spawn locations for other mobs that require players to kill over and over for trial items. Why are the Voidwalker NM's different? This is making upgrading things like Ochain a complete nightmare right now because so many people are fighting over these mobs for a shield that is virtually required to do anything in Adoulin.

[Fynlar]

I really want this to be changed, if only because I'm tired of seeing people waste time trying to get red procs on T2s thinking that it helps upgrade rate in some way.

[Ryce]

Yes please. I put VNMs on the bottom of my to-do list because it's such a pain in the neck. 15 minute respawns is bad enough.... but having no control over (usually) abysmal "drop rates" while only the player who claimed it has a chance to upgrade... very unpleasant.

Please link upgrades to Red Weakness Trigger.

[Chimerawizard]

+1 to all supporting posts, this just needs done.

There are VNMs outside abyssea too (Though instead of 100% upgrade, change t3 pops to not break, instead following the same pattern of all other VNMs)

[Xantavia]

You could always hold a T3 in your temp items. Then a T2 will never upgrade as long as you're holding that T3 of said zone.
I don't find this to be perfect solution. I tried doing this, but could never get a reading on the T2 mob when farming for Jyeshtha (or however its spelled)

[Krashport]

I don't find this to be perfect solution. I tried doing this, but could never get a reading on the T2 mob when farming for Jyeshtha (or however its spelled)
I agree this is not a perfect solution. Though its a solution for an imperfect system currently that's in place, I was just informing those that may not understand. Which most of us find that this system should be changed to Red proc 100% upgrade to balance things about a bit.

[RAIST]

I don't find this to be perfect solution. I tried doing this, but could never get a reading on the T2 mob when farming for Jyeshtha (or however its spelled)

yeah... have to pay close attention to the strength of the response--they get stronger as the tier goes up (feebly/softly/solidly/strongly):
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Voidwalker_Notorious_Monsters

Pay close attention to the message displayed when detecting a VNM to make sure it is of the appropriate tier. If the Abyssite is resonating "feebly," it is a Tier I. If it resonates "softly," it is a Tier II. If it resonates "solidly," it is a Tier III. If it is resonating "strongly," it is Tier IV.

Note that the descriptions are different in abyssea (forget the exact words), but they follow the same pattern.

[Calatilla]

Agree 100% with OP, just today my ls and I were farming Gamayun and Chione for T3 abyssites and between both parties in 4hrs we managed to get 3 T3 pops to farm souls. Red proc to force a change would be a welcome addition. You already need enough souls to make this stage a time sink, you shouldn't need to spend hours just trying to get 1 pop.

[Tarquine]

I think a better question is "Who is opposed to this coming in, and why?" - I doubt many, or anyone could really come up with a good reason to say no. At this point then, SE should just implement the damned solution!

You should create an official kind of "Hey Devs: Look at my idea" in the proper feedback forum bit too, in the hopes someone who may change it, actually reads it!

[Calatilla]

It would have to be posted in the JP forums before it got noticed, unless the JP playerbase asks for this too I can't see it happening personally.

[Siven]

Agreed. Enough of the not upgrading nonsense.

[Siviard]

I agree with this. Having to kill 114 T1 VWNMs in West Sarutabaruta is NOT my idea of fun.

Yes, you heard me. ONE HUNDRED FOURTEEN KILLS to get my abyssite to upgrade!

[Krashport]

It would have to be posted in the JP forums before it got noticed, unless the JP playerbase asks for this too I can't see it happening personally.

Link (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33443-%E3%81%9D%E3%82%8C%E3%81%9E%E3%82%8C%E3%81%AE%E6%88%A6%E3%81%84%E3%81%AF%E6%AC%A1%E3%81%AE%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%82%A2%E3%80%9C100%EF%BC%85%E3%81%AE%E3%82%A2%E3%83%83%E3%83%97%E3%82%B0%E3%83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%81%95%E3%82%8C%E3%81%9F%E5%BE%8C%E4%B8%89%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%88Abyssite%E3%81%AF%E3%80%81%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E3%81%8F%E3%81%A0%E3%81%95%E3%81%84%EF%BC%81?p=431969#post431969)

[Miiyo]

I think they need a new team. The Shockwave team! They should deal with the side effects of releasing new content and how it impacts older content. Obviously alot of people flocked to Adoulin so that makes it a lot harder (especially when it may have already been near impossible) to gather people for.

[Chimerawizard]

I agree with this. Having to kill 114 T1 VWNMs in West Sarutabaruta is NOT my idea of fun.

Yes, you heard me. ONE HUNDRED FOURTEEN KILLS to get my abyssite to upgrade!

Everyone else was talking about abyssea VNMs, almost exclusive red proc = upgrade.
Responding to what you said though, I agree that t1 upgrade inside and outside abyssea need a boost.

[Krashport]

Another reason this system needs to change.



This is just because I pop the VNM T3 and they did not.

[Ladyofdragons]

Another reason this system needs to change.



This is just because I pop the VNM T3 and they did not.

This really needs to stop!:mad:

[Krashport]

We're also wondering wouldn't it be possible, to tie VNM KI to the player who popped it, not the area where it was popped at. Having more then one VNM up at once and/or having the VNM system bound to RED proc 100% upgrade. This would help so much with the congestion.

There is no need to have us wait on each other, outside of Parties, Alliances or Link-shell. Plus the 10~15min wait on a chance at popping a VNM. We've paid for our product already, that you guys get every month (Which is ContinuousX3 in my case). We did not come home from shopping to wait in another line..... :confused: this is the most biggest time-sink I've seen yet, please fix it.

Thanks Sakura317 for helping us out. :)
Japanese, Forum link (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33443-%E3%81%9D%E3%82%8C%E3%81%9E%E3%82%8C%E3%81%AE%E6%88%A6%E3%81%84%E3%81%AF%E6%AC%A1%E3%81%AE%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%82%A2%E3%80%9C100%EF%BC%85%E3%81%AE%E3%82%A2%E3%83%83%E3%83%97%E3%82%B0%E3%83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%81%95%E3%82%8C%E3%81%9F%E5%BE%8C%E4%B8%89%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%88Abyssite%E3%81%AF%E3%80%81%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E3%81%8F%E3%81%A0%E3%81%95%E3%81%84%EF%BC%81?p=431969#post431969).

[Kaisha]

And bump the VNM aggro range from 4' to 10' while they're at it.

[ChuckNorris]

Oh man, this guy lol. Shouldn't be allowed to fight if you let your bot die 3 times while holding =P

[Krashport]

And bump the VNM aggro range from 4' to 10' while they're at it.I agree, this would help a great deal. Also maybe slowdown VNMs movement speed (a little if anything). I've heard from friends that are on Consoles as well as PC(s), they've gotten frame rate-lag (lack of a better word that comes to mind...) issues and at times can't keep up with VNMs movements within some zones. (Batallia Downs (s), Meriphataud Mountains (s) etc., just to name a few).

[ChuckNorris]

And as much as I dislike the guy, I somewhat agree but don't, the change rate on these is pretty high, and also keep in mind I know it's been awhile since aby has been out, but some people will still target for seals when they need them, and yes I know can get T3 then get another T2 but not everyone wants to deal with all of that. And it would make getting the harp/shield way too easy/fast compared to other emps, and with them being 2 of the best among them it should take some time and effort to actually get everything. The plates and horns aren't really a pain to get.

[Krashport]

Psh lol you know for a fact you got pissed cause ya got out claimed, just try harder next time and stop hating the player(s) that beat you. Might learn something from them, you did say it yourself b4 the conversation got heated (on your part), that you had a bad day. QQ~


Oh man, this guy lol. Shouldn't be allowed to fight if you let your bot die 3 times while holding =P Do you really think this impresses... anyone, think it makes you look good in anyway... stop making yourself look bad dude.

Lets just keep this thread clean though. We really don't want it to get closed. At least I got your support on the matter (somewhat). :p

[ChuckNorris]

Eh, I'm in a bit of a better mood honestly, but really those things are too weak, they are easily solo'd/duo'd with just coming as a DD and speeds things up. That's why I disagree with it in a way, because chloris/glavoid are still more annoying IMO because it's a bit more annoying to actually get all the KI's for them.

[Lazytaichou]

Yeah, I can attest to Chloris/Glavoid... Those KIs are a beeyotch to get. And my LS is working on those two NMs for a bunch of folks.

[Krashport]

Not everyone has a DD (Damage Dealer) or play like everyone else, damn that would be boring iono~. Um with Chloris, Glavoid seeing that it's 100% KI(s) from each NM, w/ REDproc also having the randomness to get w/o REDproc and having more then one Chloris, Glavoid or up at once. I find that to be easier, but then again it all goes into personal preference to say the least. (Some have better luck then others).

[ChuckNorris]

Only thing I could suggest for the soul farming would be, make more than 1 spawn of each or decrease the time between pops.

[Demon6324236]

And as much as I dislike the guy, I somewhat agree but don't, the change rate on these is pretty highWell thats the problem, its pretty high, not any chance at forcing it even by the normal red procs. What they should do is make it so the upgrade rate is the same as now but you can force the upgrade with red like everything else, so there is always a chance of an upgrade for soloers and the like, but people with a party or simply trying to proc it have a 100% chance to get it if its what they are after, and seal parties will be no different than now.

[Krashport]

There are to many people doing this activity, could we please have VNMs adjusted. Brulo, Maere and Ogopogo (just to name a few), It would help to have more then one spawn up at once. As for upgrading, standing by (waiting) while others finish their fight, just to wait again on a (10~15min) re-spawn is redundant.

If anything tie all VNMs to the player(s), not the area if you have to. This needs so much attention, adjustments. We do not play a Video game to wait in a (Edit*) line.

[Ladyofdragons]

It is getting to the point where it is impossible to claim a VNM T2 for an upgrade to T3, cause there are players (Some) with multiple accounts situating their characters to pop and claim every time. I do not find this fair.

[Krashport]

Another day- Yet this event is still OVER camped and SE just sits by, says nothing in hopes that this thread gets lost into the abyss.

[RAIST]

We are sorry, but due to unusual call load, your expected hold time is approximately <2 weeks>. Please stay on the line for the next available representative.

What it feels like these days....

This issue has been reported repeatedly for at least a year through official channels. I myself filed "feedback" several times over the last 2 years with basically the same ideas (more spawns, binding upgrade to elemental WS use (red in abyssea), reduced pop times, etc.). Other's have complained as well (or at least said they filed similar feedback). And all we get from SE is silence on the matter.

[Tarquine]

Now with SoA and every run demanding an "Ochain PLD only" - the hopes of many players are being quashed by the fanatics who are camping these VNMs day in day out... Basically, forcing any casual player out of the the tanking game.

[Kaisha]

Now with SoA and every run demanding an "Ochain PLD only" - the hopes of many players are being quashed by the fanatics who are camping these VNMs day in day out... Basically, forcing any casual player out of the the tanking game.
Welcome to back when every BRD and PLD were wanting their Daurs and Ochains when Abyssea was hot, and folks were blatantly cheating their way to easy VNM popping.

Be persistant and find a decent timeframe to farm. I helped a friend get his Ochain made from scratch last month.

[svengalis]

I would love for them to do this but I doubt they will go back to adjust anything in Abyssea anytime soon if ever.

[svengalis]

I am bumping this thread cause I think it so lame that when I log on and try to do something only to watch me get out pulled by a BST needing seals it makes me want to cancel my account again. This wouldn't have been the case if I had gotten my upgrade on my first pop.

Square Enix, it is not fun watching the screen while you wait until someone else kills the mob you are trying to get. It doesn't keep people playing, it's not a time sink it only makes them quit.

[Radd]

They really need to remove the t2 and t3 bottlenecks or adjust the respawn times dramatically. It's getting silly when I'm seeing people shout for colorless souls for up to 750k each. Every other weapon has 3 pops, having these still at 1 pop is a joke, especially since it's time based.

And no, just because there wasn't a bunch of trials before hand makes this any better, if anything it makes it worse. At least you could have partied up with anyone to camp those nms. Anyone who defends this is either making lots of gil out of idiots buying these or has the "I did it, so you should suffer too" mentality.

[Demon6324236]

Yeah basically, I mean even the people who think that since they did it everyone else should have to too, those people I have to find it hard to believe they could think that way, I would not wish the Soul trials on anyone, ever, its terrible.

[Hawk]

I wouldn't be surprised if SE doesn't change this at all. They seem to forget that this is a GAME and want you to spend all your time in it (and the more you waste, the more you still need to get done). That message when logging in is just there for legal reasons to cover their ass. Look how long it took them to change Ulli? Look how long it took them to change ground kings? If this gets changed, it will probably be around 2018 in the "Look, we'll fix all the things that we should have in the first place, please don't quit, we want all your money" campaign. Come on Square, prove me wrong. Make me eat my words and change this horrible system. I dare you!

[Okipuit]

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

[FrankReynolds]

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

It takes about 8 hours to get a delve weapon from start to finish. Do you really think that these are that much better than delve weapons? Or is this newspeak for "We have other stuff we'd rather be doing so suck it up losers"?

[Shadax]

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

I can live with the god-awful upgrade rates, but can't we at least get multiple spawns back on the table? Waiting 10-15 mins on a respawn in a timed area while trying to out-claim half a dozen other parties is not my idea of "equal level" considering all the other weapon mobs have multiple spawns.

Anyway, I guess this is just another example of SE listening to our feedback and kindly telling us to F-off. I suppose we should be excited to at least get a response.

[Radd]

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.


The system isn't difficult at all. It's very luck based and time wasting. All I'm suggesting is that they add in either more ways to spawn the VNMs, lower the spawn timers for the VNMs (or add more spawns in the zone at once,) or give us a way to get rid of the bottle neck of waiting if people pop the VNM, fight it, and wait for the respawn. It can take up to an hour per zone to get 1-2 souls, with a line of sometimes up to 20-30 people in the zone looking for this. Come on now, this is the biggest bottle neck in the game. At least with doing any other event or trial in the game you can do it at your own pace and not be bogged down by other people.

It wouldn't be so bad if jobs like Paladin didn't have to resort to forcing themselves to get this shield just to be able to play their job. It's just that good, and that is the problem.

Throw out a delve shield with a block rate with about the same and maybe it might change something, but having anything but Aegis or Ochain at the moment makes you more of a detriment than a help.

The abyssite nonsense? Fine, I can deal with that, but at least make it so anyone with the KI can pop it at anytime as long as they can find the NM.

[woie]

It takes about 8 hours to get a delve weapon from start to finish. Do you really think that these are that much better than delve weapons? Or is this newspeak for "We have other stuff we'd rather be doing so suck it up losers"?

not really the best comparison ochain is still godly even at 90 unlike other emps, when they release a sheild that s***'s all over ochain then you have a point.

on topic, yes this system sucks but at least the rewards are still worth the effort, there wasnt a day that went by that i didnt want to drown a bag of kittens because of it, fact is with the way the game is now even my aegis is reduced to town gear if im on pld 90% of the time i use ochain, was it worth all the hell to make it?....YES

[Demon6324236]

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.Do you not understand how stupid this system is? Let me explain why we hate it...

First off, you are trying to claim a NM, which is invisible, and you have to fight some random amount of times for an upgrade, now the first one spawns quickly, lots of them in multiple zones, so its not to bad. But then the second NM, the T2, now you are not alone in camping these most of the time, there are hoards of people, 2~3 parties on average whenever I went to do mine, and its on a 10~15 repop timer. So now you get to fight a NM, which is invisible, you have to /heal to find, which stops you from moving and often allows others to pop it before you, and the KI might not upgrade even if you do get the NM. Now say on average we all get a pop in a cycle, that means if there are 2 other parties, I can get 1 NM every 30~45 excluding fight time and pop time, now, what are the rates for upgrading? 20%? 25%? Lets go with 25%, so once every 4 pops I get a KI to pop the T3. Now lets do some math... 1 NM every 30~45 minutes, Ill go with 40, so 40, times 4, is 160, now 160 divided by 60 minutes is 2 hours and 40 minutes. So it would take me roughly 2 and a half hours for a single KI for my T3 NM. Now say it takes 20 minutes to pop and kill this NM, thats about 3 hours now. So 3 hours have gone by, the other 2 parties are still around, and I killed my NM and got lucky, 2 souls! Now how much longer will it takes? 3 hours per 1~2 souls, say on average I get 1.5 souls, thats 3 souls every 2 kills, that means 75 Souls takes about 50 kills, so about 150 hours spent inside Abyssea, farming, fighting with other people for claim on a single invisible NM roaming around randomly. Assuming all of this you have spent nearly 6 full days inside Abyssea doing nothing but this, competing with other people for this single NM, and there are a lot of things I am leaving out too, retiming, getting buffs/atma, remaking T2 pops, and so on, so really its probably more like 170 hours in total, a week in Abyssea for a single stage of a trial.

Does that accuratly explain the pain of doing this?

Why we hate it is simple, only 1 pop, KI changes and you have to get another, people fight over the single pop constantly, and even when you finally get ahold of it you can not be sure you will get the KI you want, nor can you force it like anywhere else in Abyssea... and so on, its a simply painful and stupid cycle of annoyance and frustration for players.

[Radd]

Pretty much what I was saying without an actual time estimation.

Why is this in the game? Is there any specific reason why at this point for this to be bottlenecked this badly? This is the definition of artificial difficulty. There's no reason for it other than to waste as much time as possible.

[Antanias]

Why not make the t3 vnms in the Visions and Scars areas drop Colorless souls? (oh right, they're weaker nms and ppl would instead farm those.)

[FrankReynolds]

not really the best comparison ochain is still godly even at 90 unlike other emps, when they release a sheild that s***'s all over ochain then you have a point.

That was sorta my point. Delve weapons shit all over previous weapons and are a million times easier to get, so the whole "it's so hard because the reward is so good" thing is BS. Don't make a weapon that craps all over everything and takes one day to finish and then tell me that some other weapon has to take months to complete because it's equally as good.

ON TOPIC:

This trial is annoying. No one anywhere ever found it fun. It makes us hate you. we don't want to be haters. Break the cycle.

[Chimerawizard]

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.
While I agree that the rewards of ochain/duradabla are very nice rewards, those items are requirements for a PLD or BRD in delve. A player could have all the best gear aside from those two and still a pathetic waste of a spot if they don't have empyrean.

This is the true problem, those items are basic requirements for those jobs to do end-game nowadays, bottleneck is an actual issue thanks to that. Either create new items that are almost as good as lv90 versions or make that trial quicker.
Three ways to make it easier were already mentioned in this thread. make Red proc 100% upgrade (you can lower upgrade when red is not proc'd), increase the # of spawns, or add colorless souls to the list of drops for T3 VNMs in Vision & Scars areas. I greatly prefer making the trial quicker.

[Duelle]

I'll echo the sentiments presented over this page. The rationale for keeping things untouched is rather poor.

[Bizniztyme]

This is the dumbest system i've ever seen in any game ever, whoever thought of this system needs to be slapped.

[Minikom]

It takes about 8 hours to get a delve weapon from start to finish. Do you really think that these are that much better than delve weapons? Or is this newspeak for "We have other stuff we'd rather be doing so suck it up losers"?

LOL delve shield isnt better than Ochain and there is no instruments on delve equal or superior to Empy Harp. However reduce repop on VNM should be cool and helpful.

[FrankReynolds]

LOL delve shield isnt better than Ochain and there is no instruments on delve equal or superior to Empy Harp.

Yeah, that's why people are complaining. If there was a delve shield or harp that smashed the empy harp / shield the way the weapons do, no one would care. They would just make the delve harp / shield. But there aren't delve shield / harps that smash the old ones, so bards / paladins have to go through a bunch of BS that other jobs don't.

Never mind the fact that these trials were obnoxious even back when empy / relics were the best across the board.

[OmnysValefor]

Dumb? Sure, but it's not that bad. If you just focus on it, you'll get it done. I finished my Ochain early this year and I'm thinking hard about building a Dardablablahblah.

[Fynlar]

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

Nokipuit strikes again~

By the way, pretty sure it was only T1 upgrade rate that was changed (which, honestly, wasn't as big a deal, considering there's multiple T1 mobs in each zone and are probably on much faster respawns). T2 was, as far as I know, unaffected.

[detlef]

T1 -> T2 upgrade increase was welcome but should have been only the first step. In addition, T2 -> T3 should have been increased, and let's not forget about T1 -> T2 upgrade rate for outside VNMs. Those should all have been done by now.

And of course, for the first how many months of Heroes, the double drop rate from Maere and Brulo was probably close to 5%.

[Ryce]

SE - Please reconsider. Competition for a single spawn per 15 mins per zone is not challenging, it's degrading. The negative feelings are only amplified by the low upgrade rate. Building an Ochain is not fun or challenging... it's off-putting.

[Vagrua]

"We have no plans of changing this so deal with it" yep that's SE for you. I've helped make a few ochains & I will say, it's no walk in the park. Competition along with sometimes going 0/20+ on upgrading just for a chance at 1 or 2 of the bloody Colorless souls. It's a nightmare.

[Yinnyth]

These trials are intentionally left difficult due to the fact that it only takes 3 trials to get a functional harp/shield, but it takes 10 trials to get a functional weapon. 11, if you want that weapon to be up to the same stage where it no longer takes abyssea items, but requires VW items. So I can understand the need to leave these trials time-consuming to help match the effort required for other empy weapons.

What I find to be unequal about other trials, however, is the competition aspect.

[FrankReynolds]

These trials are intentionally left difficult due to the fact that it only takes 3 trials to get a functional harp/shield, but it takes 10 trials to get a functional weapon. 11, if you want that weapon to be up to the same stage where it no longer takes abyssea items, but requires VW items. So I can understand the need to leave these trials time-consuming to help match the effort required for other empy weapons.

What I find to be unequal about other trials, however, is the competition aspect.

It takes 1 trial and about 6 hours to build a delve weapon... even the Empy weapons are almost all easier than these.

[Yinnyth]

Oh, you want to compare them to delve weapons instead? I'm not willing to take the other side of that argument. You are correct that a delve weapon is easier to build than an empy weapon.

But making daurdabla (90) requires about the same amount of playtime as making a twashstar (90).

[FrankReynolds]

But making daurdabla (90) requires about the same amount of playtime as making a twashstar (90).

I know. The only reason there aren't tons of threads about the pain in the arse that is twash is because there is a better / faster option than twash now.

Honestly, I don't even think they should make this easier. I think they should just add it to the possible rewards from delve as well.

[Demon6324236]

I know. The only reason there aren't tons of threads about the pain in the arse that is twash is because there is a better / faster option than twash now.That... and in my opinion when you look at the trials they are completely lopsided, even if there are more for weapons the Shield and Harp are much more difficult.

I can camp lotto NMs in my sleep or while I play another game, progress on them can be made at the same time for everyone in the party, same with VNMs, which makes teaming up possible. Teaming up with others is only not possible once you hit the Abyssea stages, the first difficult stages at all.

ICs are about the same as Visions NMs, besides Glavoid & Chloris they take 2~3 KIs, while ICs take 2 pop items, 1 from an NM and the other from normal mobs. Even if it is on the easier side of things, stage two as we all know and love is much more harsh & time taking.

Sure all of the weapons require a KI from 1 15 minute repop NM, similar to the VNMs, but on something like Gukumatz, Heqet, or Tunga, you can proc red and force the KI to drop, but with VWs, even assuming you get the NM yourself, there is no sure way to make it drop the KI.

If that one were not enough, the weapon is already useful after that stage, but yours is not, the Shield and Horn make look like their finished counterparts but they have no stats at all, only the shape. The next trial is again harder for the Shield and Harp, some weapons share the same NM though, Apadem is done for Kannagi and Almace as well, but its also one of the hardest NMs in Abyssea, by far the second hardest of the ones needed for Emp trials in my opinion, Azdaja is needed for the staff that almost no one makes, and is easily the hardest of the NMs needed for Emps.

So in the end, I would say they are not on the same level of difficulty, rather the Shield and Harp are harder even if they take less trials to complete, because those trials are much harder, specifically the second one, with the third being harder than any item not on the same NMs, and the fact they are forced to complete that 3rd trial before its of any use to begin with.

[Tickmeoff]

Oh, you want to compare them to delve weapons instead? I'm not willing to take the other side of that argument. You are correct that a delve weapon is easier to build than an empy weapon.

But making daurdabla (90) requires about the same amount of playtime as making a twashstar (90).


Is everyone just going to ignore the fact that the Voidwalker system doesn't exist solely for Ochain and Daurdabla?

What about the entire Voidwalker system outside of abyssea? What about all the T2s that drop body seals, or the T3s like Tristitia that happen to be the only mob that can drop 3 of a certain +2 item? These NMs are functionally useless for the entire playerbase because it is a gigantic waste of time to try and pop them.

If they refuse to change this system at all solely because of Ochain/Daurdabla, then at least take all the other items that come from Voidwalkers and make them drop from something else. Let the people making their empy stuff dick around with this shitty system while the rest of us can just avoid it completely.

[Demon6324236]

Well, in all honesty I have farmed T3s for +2s because no one does the T2s in those areas, except for +2s from the T3s. Sure those NMs are still a pain, but there are no real exclusive drops of worth, even if there were, the competition on them is very low which makes it much easier. As for seals, I do not think VNMs should drop seals at all, but even if they do, none of the seals from them can only be gotten from them, all seals have 3 different NMs they are tied to. You said you want to avoid it completely, there is nothing of worth from any of them besides the Colorless Souls, or a few random pieces like Serpentes and such which are hardly overcamped.

[svengalis]

These trials are intentionally left difficult due to the fact that it only takes 3 trials to get a functional harp/shield, but it takes 10 trials to get a functional weapon. 11, if you want that weapon to be up to the same stage where it no longer takes abyssea items, but requires VW items. So I can understand the need to leave these trials time-consuming to help match the effort required for other empy weapons.

What I find to be unequal about other trials, however, is the competition aspect.

I've actually done all the pre trials time popped NM and VNM in a 24 hour period. I could complete just about any empyrean faster then I could harp or ochain because of competition for the VNM and bad upgrade rates.

[Yinnyth]

I've actually done all the pre trials time popped NM and VNM in a 24 hour period. I could complete just about any empyrean faster then I could harp or ochain because of competition for the VNM and bad upgrade rates.

I've gone 9 hours without seeing black triple stars pop, and I had to kill him 3 times. I've gone 7 hours without seeing bugbear strongman, and I had to kill him 4 times. My abyssites tend to tier-up at an abnormally high rate when I'm killing VNMs for empyrean weapons (like tammuz). If you did all the trials in 24 hours, you got super lucky.

[Zagen]

I've actually done all the pre trials time popped NM and VNM in a 24 hour period. I could complete just about any empyrean faster then I could harp or ochain because of competition for the VNM and bad upgrade rates.
Let's take a look at Great Katana Trials for example and being very lucky:

Vuu Puqu the Beguiler 3 hours
Buburimboo 3 hours
Zo'Khu Blackcloud 3 hours
Seww the Squidlimbed 4 hours
Ankabut 6 hours
Okyupete 4 hours
Urd 3 hours and (assumes you can pop and kill each one in 10 minutes)
Lamprey Lord 3 hours and (assumes you can pop and kill each one in 10 minutes)
Chesma 4 hours & 20 minutes (assumes you can pop and kill each one in 10 minutes)

By my count: 33 hours and 20 minutes
Even if you discount kill time on the VNMs: 30 hours.

Either that 24 hours isn't 24 hours straight or I'm missing something...

[Alerith]

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

"Ochain and Daurdabla are still the only two worthwhile Empyreans not completely made irrelevant by Delve, therefore they will continue to have poorly thought out paths to fulfill their requirements."

Also, while the update increased the change of abyssite, the rate of change is still crap. You went from utterly crappy to extremely crappy.

I mean, let's be honest. You can take an item with a 0.01% drop rate, increase it to 0.03% and still be able to claim "We raised the drop rate!". That doesn't make it any less crap.

[OmnysValefor]

Geez.

Quit whining--do it if you want it.

Thousands of players have. Dozens of players have both Ochain and Durblahblah, as I'm considering doing. The mountain before me isn't my hesitation, but simply deciding whether I like bard enough to do it or not.

SE said no, quit whining, quit insulting them. Ochain, speaking from experience, is worth every minute of farming. It's even more fun when you can take advantage of 100% blocking to trivialize something. I did my PDT Shik after Ochain. I did this by gathering up all the mobs I needed, phalanxing, beating them down to low health, and waiting.

Bukhis is a complete joke with Ochain as well. You'll block the buff-removal every single time, as long as you're not petrified.

[Alerith]

Quit whining--do it if you want it.

And for those of us that do have it and still find the system messed up for our peers to have to go through?

Three time spawned VNMs that drop the item, each with a 15 minute respawn, each requiring the third tier of a key item which is nowhere near a reasonable drop, obtained by one of three other specific time spawned VNMs each on their own 15 minute respawn timer whom, again, don't have a reasonable drop rate on the KI, which must also be spawned from a key item gained from a more reasonable pool of VNMs whom also have an exceedingly bad KI drop rate.

...

How does that sound intelligent at all when you have a server with hundreds of people whom, at any given time, could need something from the VNMs? Let's not forget they put seals on Koios, Gamayun and Chione. And let's also not forget that there are many people who don't care you're on your trials and just want their last BLM seal, willing to run you into the ground for hours of competition until one of you breaks from the constant bullshit.

Ochain is a worthy reward for the items. The system in which the items are obtained, however, is complete shit and it always has been. Getting your Ochadurablabla does not suddenly make the system seem acceptable. It just means you were willing to put up with a higher level of bullshit than most others would. A level of BS they shouldn't have to deal with.

[OmnysValefor]

FFXI has always been about putting up with bullshit and coming out with something shiny.

Seriously, it's kinda funny to sit and think about how much of this game has been "effort" and how much has been "fun".

It's there, it's free. People just don't want to invest the effort and it just isn't that bad.

[Alerith]

It's there, it's free. People just don't want to invest the effort and it just isn't that bad.

Yes, Agreed, Strongly disagreed

It's not an issue of effort, nor skill or anything else under the players control. When you have someone willing to sit out in Uleguerand or Grauberg or Altepa for an extended period of time and go 0/30 on abyssite changes, then the player cannot be held at fault as they have no control over RNG or luck.

Spending six hours in Abyssea without an abyssite change and being upset does mean the player has shown a lack of effort or dedication. It means the system is crap and they are suffering for it.

[OmnysValefor]

Not saying it can't happen, because anything can, but I never had such bad luck on t2-T3. Do your t1-t2 in one of the starter aby zones. It's ridiculous to fight a T1 in the upper-tier zones. I'd actually say those elemental t1's are harder than Shiva, Garuda and Titan.

I have definitely gone 0/20+ (maybe 30) on t1->t2.

I think my worst stretch was 0/8? I kept at it and I can't understand how people can want to be a pld, but not put in the effort.

[Alerith]

Not saying it can't happen, because anything can, but I never had such bad luck on t2-T3. Do your t1-t2 in one of the starter aby zones. It's ridiculous to fight a T1 in the upper-tier zones. I'd actually say those elemental t1's are harder than Shiva, Garuda and Titan.

I have definitely gone 0/20+ (maybe 30) on t1->t2.

I think my worst stretch was 0/8? I kept at it and I can't understand how people can want to be a pld, but not put in the effort.

Correct. Never, EVER, do T1>T2 in anything other than Konschtat or La Thiene.

Even so, T2>T3 is where the issue stands, as people have and do go 0/20+ on changes and that's assuming they can get the NM that isn't be camped by seal farmers and other shield/harp builders.

You're viewing it as a lack of effort, but a player only has so much control when the mobs are limited in number, on longer than average respawns and have to compete with seal hunters who don't care to cooperate. Hell, it's actually because the abyssite has such a crappy drop rate that seal farming the NMs repeatedly in one trip is even possible. An increase in change rate of abyssite would even out the competition balance a bit unless intentionally circumnavigated.

[Yinnyth]

It's not an issue of effort, nor skill or anything else under the players control. When you have someone willing to sit out in Uleguerand or Grauberg or Altepa for an extended period of time and go 0/30 on abyssite changes, then the player cannot be held at fault as they have no control over RNG or luck.

It is, in theory, possible that anytime you have such systems which rely on luck that you can do thousands and thousands and thousands of kills and not tier up. If 0/30 is for real, and it is the highest recorded string of bad luck, then the tierup chance may not be that bad. Having done daurdabla myself, my average tierup rate on t1>t2 was about 1 in 8 (highest was 18 kills). My average tierup rate on t2>t3 was about 1 in 3 (highest was 7).

Will there be some people less lucky than me? Yes, though my friends who have also completed daurdabla commented on how remarkably bad my tierup rates were, so it appears that my luck was worse than average as well. You must also take into account there are people who will quite willingly exaggerate how bad their luck is because it's very appealing in our culture to be a victim. Stop indulging these people who pretend to be a victim and look at the actual average rates.

Regardless 0/30 is far from the average.

[OmnysValefor]

With all due respect, I think you underestimate people's ability to give up on anything remotely not-easy.

As I said (days ago) in the shields thread, the same people wanting easier to obtain ochain also are the same ones usually in 5/5 creed and 2% dark rings. Yeah I've seen DT capped paladins in Seignuer's and Steadfast, but it's usually not the case.

A lot of people just want things given to them.

According to FFXIAH, there are as many Ochains as there are Twashtars, and 2/3 as many as there are Almaces and Veres.

Edit: Math and reading. There are 863 (active?) twashtars. There are 1228 Ochains. There are 1400+ 85 Ochains (done with vnm) (those 1400 include the 1228 90s. I'm not trying to be confusing, that's how FFXIAH displays it).

Half as many Ochains as Kannagis, and this is a tool that was useful to a useless job.

Edit: I'm curious. Was the 0/30 your stretch or something someone said on forums?

I went 1/20 on Joyeuse back in the day! >.>

[Alerith]

It is, in theory, possible that anytime you have such systems which rely on luck that you can do thousands and thousands and thousands of kills and not tier up. If 0/30 is for real, and it is the highest recorded string of bad luck, then the tierup chance may not be that bad. Having done daurdabla myself, my average tierup rate on t1>t2 was about 1 in 8 (highest was 18 kills). My average tierup rate on t2>t3 was about 1 in 3 (highest was 7).

Will there be some people less lucky than me? Yes, though my friends who have also completed daurdabla commented on how remarkably bad my tierup rates were, so it appears that my luck was worse than average as well. You must also take into account there are people who will quite willingly exaggerate how bad their luck is because it's very appealing in our culture to be a victim. Stop indulging these people who pretend to be a victim and look at the actual average rates.

Regardless 0/30 is far from the average.

But it is the very possibility of such things that I am referring to. 0/30 may not be an average, but it is a likely possibility. You can also, in theory, go 1/1 on every single abyssite change and get 2/2 souls on every T3 drop. (If the system is truly RNG and we consider absolute asinine luck.)

Just because Player A goes 0/30 and Player B goes 1/1 certainly does not make the system bad. If it was simply left like this without any other factors, and was strictly abyssite changes, then that is one thing.

But you must upgrade the abyssite twice, on two NMs (one of each tier), one of which is on a fifteen minute respawn and a very realistic possibility that your abyssite WON'T change.

But what I'm saying is that if you don't want to change abyssite drop rates any further, than change the respawn times on the VNMs, add more of them or have souls drop off T3s in the other areas as well.

The issue is the bottleneck caused by the RNG due to the very limited number of NMs and their extended respawns. Fix the number of NMs, the respawns or the NMs that souls drop from and the abyssite change issue becomes a LOT less relevant.

EDIT:


Edit: I'm curious. Was the 0/30 your stretch or something someone said on forums?

0/30 was indeed a stretch of my own, evenly split between Chione and Koios. (So if you would prefer, 0/15, 1/16 with the same abyssite.)

[Yinnyth]

But it is the very possibility of such things that I am referring to. 0/30 may not be an average, but it is a likely possibility. You can also, in theory, go 1/1 on every single abyssite change and get 2/2 souls on every T3 drop. (If the system is truly RNG and we consider absolute asinine luck.)

I believe our definitions of "likely" are vastly different. 0/30 on a t2>t3 upgrade is not likely by my definition.

But you must upgrade the abyssite twice, on two NMs (one of each tier), one of which is on a fifteen minute respawn and a very realistic possibility that your abyssite WON'T change.

The T1s are on a respawn timer which is difficult to accurately judge, but appears to be somewhere in the range of 1-5 minutes. The T2s are on a 10-15 minute timer, and I can confirm several cases in which koios spawned 10 minutes after his death. The T3s are on a 15-20 minute timer, but you don't need an upgrade from them, so that's obviously not what you're talking about. No, you're talking worst-case-scenario for T2 as though that's the norm. Just like you wave around this 1/31 record as though it's the norm.


But what I'm saying is that if you don't want to change abyssite drop rates any further, than change the respawn times on the VNMs, add more of them or have souls drop off T3s in the other areas as well.

The end result is the same: trials become easier. You don't care how they make them easier as long as they make them easier. Heck, even if they do make them easier, we'll probably still see posts from other people complaining that they're still not easy enough. At what point should the line be drawn?


0/30 was indeed a stretch of my own, evenly split between Chione and Koios. (So if you would prefer, 0/15, 1/16 with the same abyssite.)

A neat split of 0/15 on one, then 0/15 on another? What are the odds? Such an even number, such an even split between the two zones. Surely, you must be able to understand my doubt when you make such claims. Have you any proof? How did you keep count? Is there anyone who was with you for these kills who can confirm that you indeed went 1/31? Or did you just pull 0/30 out of thin air, then decide to defend this number to the best of your ability because no one has the ability to prove that you're lying when you claim it happened to you? Just like you can't prove I wasn't abducted by aliens who look like Tony the Tiger, but you have darned good reason to doubt I'm telling the truth if I say I was.

I'm not saying 0/30 is impossible. Even if the abyssite had a 99.99% chance to upgrade, there is a tiny tiny chance that you could still go 0/30. But the upgrade chance for T2>T3 appears to be somewhere around 25%. Assuming a 25% chance on tierup, your odds of going 0/30 are roughly 0.017858209%.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.Tell them to check the numbers again, because they're either lying or did something wrong. People are still spending hours upon hours just to get it to change from T1 to T2. If it realy was "fixed," then people shouldn't be going 100+ kills of T1s to get an upgrade.

[OmnysValefor]

According to FFXIAH, there are as many Ochains as there are Twashtars, and 2/3 as many as there are Almaces and Veres.

Edit: Math and reading. There are 863 (active?) twashtars. There are 1228 Ochains. There are 1400+ 85 Ochains (done with vnm) (those 1400 include the 1228 90s. I'm not trying to be confusing, that's how FFXIAH displays it).

Shamelessly quoting myself.

It occurred to me last night that there's the SE Census data.

As of the 2012 census, there were 9600 Veres, 4200 Twashtars, 8000 Almaces, 3100 Caladbolgs, 1000 Farshas, 7000 Ukons, 850 Scythes and Polearms, 15000 kannagis, 5800 masas, 800 clubs, 800 Staves, 2800 bows, 5700 guns.

There were also 700 harps* and 4200 Ochains*.

In the case of weapons, I subtracted the 80 version from the total.

In the case of shields/harps, I did the same. So yeah, I counted 85 Ochain, but 85 Ochain has finished the VNM. This data is a year old and Ochain has fine representation in the population. I'm a bit shocked harp is so low. But here, again, it shows that there are as many Ochains (vnm finished) as there are twashtars.

Again, this is the representation when noone was using PLDs for much of anything.

Source (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/11/4.html)

[Zuidar]

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

would be better to adjust it so red procing would definitely give upgrade to T3. As with other Empyrean weapons that has items with other NMs you get KIs from procing red, this would make sense in abyssea for VNMs to follow the same rule when you proc red

[svengalis]

Let's take a look at Great Katana Trials for example and being very lucky:

Vuu Puqu the Beguiler 3 hours
Buburimboo 3 hours
Zo'Khu Blackcloud 3 hours
Seww the Squidlimbed 4 hours
Ankabut 6 hours
Okyupete 4 hours
Urd 3 hours and (assumes you can pop and kill each one in 10 minutes)
Lamprey Lord 3 hours and (assumes you can pop and kill each one in 10 minutes)
Chesma 4 hours & 20 minutes (assumes you can pop and kill each one in 10 minutes)

By my count: 33 hours and 20 minutes
Even if you discount kill time on the VNMs: 30 hours.

Either that 24 hours isn't 24 hours straight or I'm missing something...
may have been bit of an exaggeration but i got all the timed NM within an hour of each, think you can force it somewhat and did the vnm right after.

[Alerith]

A neat split of 0/15 on one, then 0/15 on another? What are the odds? Such an even number, such an even split between the two zones. Surely, you must be able to understand my doubt when you make such claims. Have you any proof? How did you keep count? Is there anyone who was with you for these kills who can confirm that you indeed went 1/31? Or did you just pull 0/30 out of thin air, then decide to defend this number to the best of your ability because no one has the ability to prove that you're lying when you claim it happened to you? Just like you can't prove I wasn't abducted by aliens who look like Tony the Tiger, but you have darned good reason to doubt I'm telling the truth if I say I was.

I'm not saying 0/30 is impossible. Even if the abyssite had a 99.99% chance to upgrade, there is a tiny tiny chance that you could still go 0/30. But the upgrade chance for T2>T3 appears to be somewhere around 25%. Assuming a 25% chance on tierup, your odds of going 0/30 are roughly 0.017858209%.

Sorry, I don't go around recording every moment of my gameplay, especially on something as godawful boring as VNM hunting. You have the right and choice not to believe me, but basing your argument around "I think you're a liar" is no argument at all.

Also, the trials are not becoming easier. You still have to progress through the requisite VNM tiers, you still have to be capable of defeating the VNMs and you still have to actually get the drops. What people want is more accessible trials so that they aren't standing in line for 5+ hours waiting for the chance to work on their trial.

[Godofgods]

I went 0/70 on upgrading a t1 to a t2 before. After that i never hunted them on purpose again. (And no, i did not already have a t2.)

With upgrade rates fairly low, and sooo many ppl camping them, and camping them over and over and over at that, its really an insain process. I realize the reward is high, but still, you could effectively spend months working on this and not be any closer to getting it.

[Zagen]

So I decided to revisit my Ochain and came back to these as this is where I stopped originally.

T1 -> T2 upgrades can be annoying but the fact that they're almost always up is great and reduces the frustration.

T2 -> T3 upgrade is fine with 0 competition otherwise it outright sucks. Even if it's people who're after seals in many cases they refuse to let you be the one to pop when all you're after is the upgrade.

T3 I haven't had any issues with these so far as there seems to be much less competition. Obviously this could just be a factor of T2 -> T3 upgrade being so random.

I think a few people have mentioned this already but so far the only problem I have with this is the respawn timer on T2. If the respawn timer was instant after death or 1 minute respawn similar to the ??? NMs I think that would go a long way to alleviating the severity of this bottle neck.

[Krashport]

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

We didn't know waiting in a line was considered difficult, thanks for clearing that up for us <insert VNMsLINEs here>. We're sorry that the company feels this way. To be honest, Square Enix is coming off like Microsoft with each and every passing editXbone... day. Good day Sir!

Waiting Lines and Customer Satisfaction Vs Paying a monthly fee to wait in them and using the word (http://www.scribd.com/doc/983308/WAITING-LINES-AND-CUSTOMER-SATISFACTION) difficult (http://www.scribd.com/doc/983308/WAITING-LINES-AND-CUSTOMER-SATISFACTION). (http://www.scribd.com/doc/983308/WAITING-LINES-AND-CUSTOMER-SATISFACTION)

[kylani]

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

Paying a monthly fee to spend most of your time waiting around is not difficult, it's simply a waste of time and not fun. It's what has made me realize it's time to pull up stakes and quit.

[Kristal]

Change Delve so NMs are popped rather then up and about when entering. When you don't need PLDs to not fight NMs, the pressure on the VNMs will reduce, and everyone is happy.

[SqEnisfilledwithgeniuses]

Went 1/9 on Koios. Typical number is around 6. That's 1 hour of just waiting on repops minimum. Then I popped Brulo with a thief in the group. Fought it, beat it, 1 soul dropped. So taking out any fight times, and assuming titan pops every 10 minutes, worst case scenario (including single soul drops) is 75 hours to gather souls if there is no competition. I did all my Briareus and Sobeks in a single weekend for my lolKannagi. I'm sorry, but SE's "deal with it brah" mentality doesn't impress me. A brain damaged chimp slamming its face into a keyboard could have come up with a better system than this. And to all the others who threw in the "Well other people have to camp notorious monsters and they are haaaaarrrrd!" I know from experience, you can walk on out to these NMs, and afk in a group while other people get the kills. Letting a JP player kill the NM for you 3 times while you take a nap is pretty hard work after all.

[Tamoa]

In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades


Yes, the upgrate rate was increased in a previous update. But only for T1 -> T2. And that means SE indirectly made the issue at hand here, which is the T2 -> T3 congestion/upgrade rate, even worse. I.e. people upgrading to T2 faster = more people "waiting in line" to upgrade to T3.

Like so many others have mentioned, at the very least increase the number of T2 spawns in each zone. T1 -> T2s have multiple spawns, and since it doesn't matter in which area you make the upgrade, you got NINE of them to choose from. T2s have one spawn in 3 areas only (when you are popping them for the purpose of making Ochain or Daurdabla).

[SqEnisfilledwithgeniuses]

Nevermind! I finally figured out what's challenging about these trials. The challenge come from competing against the WHM, who has no "Enhances Movement Speed" equipment on, and uses no items, yet still runs at Flee speeds to beat you to popping by a matter of seconds. I'm sorry SE, I was wrong. I've seen the light. There is obviously no issue with the system here. Let's just go ahead and leave it as is.

[FrankReynolds]

Nevermind! I finally figured out what's challenging about these trials. The challenge come from competing against the WHM, who has no "Enhances Movement Speed" equipment on, and uses no items, yet still runs at Flee speeds to beat you to popping by a matter of seconds. I'm sorry SE, I was wrong. I've seen the light. There is obviously no issue with the system here. Let's just go ahead and leave it as is.

You forgot that he does all this running around while in a full time /heal position :)

[Yinnyth]

Nevermind! I finally figured out what's challenging about these trials. The challenge come from competing against the WHM, who has no "Enhances Movement Speed" equipment on, and uses no items, yet still runs at Flee speeds to beat you to popping by a matter of seconds. I'm sorry SE, I was wrong. I've seen the light. There is obviously no issue with the system here. Let's just go ahead and leave it as is.

Do your part and report them for fleehacking:
https://support.na.square-enix.com/form.php?fo=17&id=20&la=1&p=0

The STF responds a bit slow (don't expect the fleehackers to go poof for about a month), but I have personally seen 2 such fleehackers camping abyssites on Fenrir. They haven't been online for about 2 months now.

[Fynlar]

Nevermind! I finally figured out what's challenging about these trials. The challenge come from competing against the WHM, who has no "Enhances Movement Speed" equipment on, and uses no items, yet still runs at Flee speeds to beat you to popping by a matter of seconds.

Just saying, in Abyssea I often use WHM/THF.

[SqEnisfilledwithgeniuses]

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

Off topic I know, but would it be possible to add a Dislike option to the forums? It might come in handy when certain people give cut/paste answers.

Also off topic. My favorite tool is a shield. They mindlessly defend whoever paid to hide behind them.

[raps1355]

Do your part and report them for fleehacking:
https://support.na.square-enix.com/form.php?fo=17&id=20&la=1&p=0

The STF responds a bit slow (don't expect the fleehackers to go poof for about a month), but I have personally seen 2 such fleehackers camping abyssites on Fenrir. They haven't been online for about 2 months now.

That does not sound very helpful when they get a 1-3 day ban for it yet still have the harp/shield.

[Alistaire]

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

Could you at least put it back to the way it was before?

The update you made, which was to increase how fast a tier 1 upgrades, only served to cause more of a bottleneck where alleviation was needed the most.

[svengalis]

Went 1/9 on Koios. Typical number is around 6. That's 1 hour of just waiting on repops minimum. Then I popped Brulo with a thief in the group. Fought it, beat it, 1 soul dropped. So taking out any fight times, and assuming titan pops every 10 minutes, worst case scenario (including single soul drops) is 75 hours to gather souls if there is no competition. I did all my Briareus and Sobeks in a single weekend for my lolKannagi. I'm sorry, but SE's "deal with it brah" mentality doesn't impress me. A brain damaged chimp slamming its face into a keyboard could have come up with a better system than this. And to all the others who threw in the "Well other people have to camp notorious monsters and they are haaaaarrrrd!" I know from experience, you can walk on out to these NMs, and afk in a group while other people get the kills. Letting a JP player kill the NM for you 3 times while you take a nap is pretty hard work after all.
This is not true I have seen people farm 75 souls in a 2 day period with 12 hour shifts.

[SqEnisfilledwithgeniuses]

This is not true I have seen people farm 75 souls in a 2 day period with 12 hour shifts.

worst case scenario (including single soul drops)

Because reading comprehension is hard!

If you're going to take the time to necro a thread, you should read the full post you're replying to before arbitrarily quoting it and telling me I'm wrong.

As it is luck based, it's possible to get 75 souls in 24 hours playtime. On the other hand, it's also likely you can go a whole 12 hour period without a single upgrade.

And besides, you're wrong because I saw this one guy do a thing one time in a place that is completely different than what you said.

[Daniel]

ya I don't know why you guys bother, SE doesn't want our money XD just let it die!

[svengalis]

worst case scenario (including single soul drops)

Because reading comprehension is hard!

If you're going to take the time to necro a thread, you should read the full post you're replying to before arbitrarily quoting it and telling me I'm wrong.

As it is luck based, it's possible to get 75 souls in 24 hours playtime. On the other hand, it's also likely you can go a whole 12 hour period without a single upgrade.

And besides, you're wrong because I saw this one guy do a thing one time in a place that is completely different than what you said.
Honestly that's not likely at all.

[Fynlar]

I'd actually say it's about as likely as getting 75 souls in 24 hours

The only reasonable way I see that happening is by shouting to buy pops in town, and actually offering enough gil such that people will bite

[svengalis]

I'd actually say it's about as likely as getting 75 souls in 24 hours

The only reasonable way I see that happening is by shouting to buy pops in town, and actually offering enough gil such that people will bite

I have gotten 75 souls in a 24 hour period.

[Fynlar]

Good for you? I never said it was impossible. But the upgrade rate being what it is, you have to have the luck of God Himself in order to get all those souls on your own in that time frame, which is why I said the only reasonable way I see it being done is with purchasing pops.

Having done many 4-6 hour stretches myself without an upgrade, it's not totally unbelievable to hear about 12.

[Demon6324236]

I have gotten 75 souls in a 24 hour period.As someone else pointed out before, this is basically impossible.

1 hour, per T3 NM, per zone. If there are 3 zones, which there are, and you need 75 souls, which you do, and you need them in a 24 hour period, which you claim... You have to kill every single T3 as soon as it pops, and with single drops that would net you 72 exactly, if you got only 1 per kill. Now if you got 2 per kill, you could kill just 2 zones NMs as soon as they were up and you would be done in about 19 hours. So are you seriously telling me you camped 2 zones at the same time and killed their NMs as soon as they were up? Or did you camp all 3 zones for around 15 hours? Also this is assuming you got double drops on each kill. If it was 1.5 drops per kill, which I saw an average of when doing my Souls for Ochain, then you would need to camp all 3 zones at the same time, killing the NMs as soon as they pop, for roughly 17 hours?

All in all, that seems like a fairly unlikely or near impossible statement.


I never said it was impossible. But the upgrade rate being what it is, you have to have the luck of God Himself in order to get all those souls on your own in that time frame, which is why I said the only reasonable way I see it being done is with purchasing pops.Even if you purchased pops, it would take 1 hour to repop in every zone. Mathematically speaking if you were to kill every NM in every zone the very instant they popped so far as I know that would mean 72 kills, as every time I killed a T3 it was exactly popped 1 hour after the time of death of the last, I never saw an earlier repop. Going by that, not even factoring in the kill time you would have to kill them roughly 50 times for all souls by my average, meaning you would have to do it literally the entire 24 hours and have roughly 25 minutes to kill them each time, not counting the time to pop them, or time to buy them and get in zone, or time to change zones.

[SqEnisfilledwithgeniuses]

Honestly that's not likely at all.

And yet on at least 3 different occasions I went 0/9~0/12 on T2-T3 upgrades. Which again I say, worst case scenario.

Believe it or not, a lot more people than you think end up on the unlucky side of the "not likely at all" RNG.

[Alerith]

I have gotten 75 souls in a 24 hour period.

Yea, ok.

It's borderline statistically impossible. Sure, that means it IS possible, but the improbability of it essentially makes it impossible.

For the stars to align and this to become possible, you would need to camp all three zones, without any competition, and get all the VNMs as soon as they pop, killing them in a sufficient amount of time. This is with the calculation of 1-1.5 souls per drop on the T3. If you got two souls on EVERY SINGLE KILL, which is a statistical improbability so absurd it can't be seriously considered, you would still need to farm two zones for nearly 20 hours under perfect conditions.

[predatory]

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

Hmmm maybe I have no further plans on paying for the game anymore, seems like SE is pretty good about pushing customers away recently. Well good for you'

[Kormak]

I went 0/70 on upgrading a t1 to a t2 before. After that i never hunted them on purpose again. (And no, i did not already have a t2.)

With upgrade rates fairly low, and sooo many ppl camping them, and camping them over and over and over at that, its really an insain process. I realize the reward is high, but still, you could effectively spend months working on this and not be any closer to getting it.

There is a system in place where you can Upgrade T1 >T2 1st time, every time. Just because you haven't figured it out and want all the answers spoon-fed to you doesn't mean there is an issue with it.

As previously mentioned the T2-3 is about 25% chance, therefore in empty zones riding all the timers you can get 3 T3 pops per hour with no luck. More with good luck and less with bad luck.

As SE said the rewards are still 2 of the best items in the game.


And for the past 3 month during GMT 5pm - 9pm all 3 zones have been empty on Asura.

[Daniel]

There is a system in place where you can Upgrade T1 >T2 1st time, every time.

do tell? >_>

[Leocon]

I'm on the fence with this issue... Having finished a 90 Ochain back in March-April, I had to deal with a HELLUVA lot of competition from all the people rushing to make them, so I definitely agree the upgrade rate is too BS, even at 25% for T2-3... but at the same time it felt like a real accomplishment (yeah, yeah, virtual rewards LOL video game accomplishments blah blah) when I finally finished Ochain, and tbh Azdaja, one of the supposed worst NMs from Abyssea, felt like a bloody cake walk after the VNMs.

So I do agree the upgrade rate is horrible, but the idea of making them 100% is just too boring. Just look at delve. If anything I'd suggest making red proc increase the upgrade rate to 50~75%, so there's still at least the fake difficulty EVERY MMO needs to keep subs active, but it isn't the terribad headache it currently is. Tbh, I'm willing to bet it's somehow worse now for some people with no competition. At least when I was doing mine the competition gave me a reason to actually TRY to be there in time for spawns, it gave me a drive that eventually won me my Ochain. With no competition, I could just do it whenever I want, which tends to cause me to put things off longer and longer...

[Fynlar]

There is a system in place where you can Upgrade T1 >T2 1st time, every time. Just because you haven't figured it out and want all the answers spoon-fed to you doesn't mean there is an issue with it.

I bet your dad's uncle's cousin's nephew who works at SE told you that, right? :rolleyes:

Just realized this is the same thread from a while back with some guy claiming he got 75 souls in 24 hours. What is it about this thread that's attracting all the people with outlandish claims with zero proof?

[Kormak]

do tell? >_>


I bet your dad's uncle's cousin's nephew who works at SE told you that, right? :rolleyes:

Just realized this is the same thread from a while back with some guy claiming he got 75 souls in 24 hours. What is it about this thread that's attracting all the people with outlandish claims with zero proof?

I laugh at your disbelief that 75 colourless souls cannot be done in 24 hours, technically it can be done in under 5 with perfect timing. * Without the use of any third party applications* before you start barking up that tree. Using vanilla ffxi on pc!

I will not give the game away on that one however T1 >T2 one I will give to the community because I am feeling generous.

Step 1 Buy Clear abyssite for 300 cruor. (If done in one of the first 3 zones move to step 3)

Step 2 Travel to one of the first 3 zones. (I personally use Konschtat Highlands)

Step 3 Track down the T1 and pop I. Do not attack it! you can mark it with a weak ability like Chi Blast making it easy to identify.

Step 4 Kneel again to get the next hint. If hint <= 120 yalms track that one down.
If >120, usually around 200+, move on to the next hint and start at step 3 (you can kill the first one as it is now useless)

Step 5 Once you have popped the second T1 (if it was within 120) kill it and you will be rewarded with a nice colourful abyssite. (The first one should still be hitting you, hence why marking HP bar making it easy to tell which one is which)

Now that I have put this out there I am sure there will be a patch unless SE did want it to work like that. If so good job Fynlar for ruining it for everyone.

To the rest make the most of it while you still can :p

[Byrth]

I've farmed a lot of colorful Abyssites and the above does not work. I used to round up three or four and attack them in whatever order auto-attack picked and I'd still regularly not-upgrade.

[Fynlar]

I laugh at your disbelief that 75 colourless souls cannot be done in 24 hours, technically it can be done in under 5 with perfect timing. * Without the use of any third party applications* before you start barking up that tree. Using vanilla ffxi on pc!

I laugh at you seemingly ignoring the enormous levels of cards that have to fall in just the right way for that to even be a remote possibility, even with buying pops (which involves its own luck factors, like people actually having them, being willing to sell them to you, taking absolutely zero time to get to each pop, and not running into competition). The odds of the sun blowing up tomorrow are probably exponentially greater.

Still say doing it in 24 hours is almost guaranteed to be BS without buying pops.


I've farmed a lot of colorful Abyssites and the above does not work. I used to round up three or four and attack them in whatever order auto-attack picked and I'd still regularly not-upgrade.

I bet you weren't doing it on a full moon on Watersday. He probably just forgot to mention that bit

[Kormak]

3-5 is not what I said.

Have you even followed the instructions? If the second one you pop isnt in the same mob "area" then it doesnt work.

Ill tell you what tell me a good free screen capture/ recording softwate and I will make a video right now!

And then you (Fynlar) and you two like group can kiss my Galka Meat Rod


Edit: And if you want 75 or 150 souls Fynlar then come to asura and you will have them before the end of sunday. @350k per soul of course.

Double Edit: Infact why should I go out my way to prove myself. You post a video proving me wrong following my exact instructions (not 3-5 in any order). I am also not bothered if you dont believe me or go out your way to prove me wrong, you keep taking 30 min + to change T1-T2. My above offer is still on :) its usually 300k a soul but since you are a bawbag its 350.

Good day

[Fynlar]

I'm 150/150 on souls, so nah


Double Edit: Infact why should I go out my way to prove myself.

idk, I thought the reason you bothered to type all that crap out is that you wanted people to believe you

Proof generally helps with that

[detlef]

Who cares about clear > colorful anymore? They upgraded that and it's quick no matter what you do.

Aside from that, I am on the fence when it comes to this. Yeah the process is tough and annoying but your reward appears to be something that will never be affected by ilvl and is probably going to be best-in-slot for a long time. That probably seals the deal and makes the headache worth it.

[evanwimbish]

Well.... considering they gave most of the empyrean armors +1 and +2 away in the last event.... it would appear that most people only enter abyssea in hopes of getting exp, or to start the quest for empy bard/paladin items. It would make sense if SE made the trial items easier and quicker to obtain by making each pop 100% upgrade considering you have to fight each monster 25-?? times (and that's just for one person out of the 500+ people on a server) In some respects I see why they have not allowed this yet, because they most likely were concerned with people completing this event (abyssea) too quickly, and leave them with nothing to do....however I feel that with the current state of the game (and the arrival of Seekers of Adoulin), this concern should and could be addressed quickly... I feel most people just sit at their computer now and look at the screen blankly instead of playing the game... but if we had more things to do in older areas, perhaps it would give everyone something to do other than listening to the very lively music of jeuno/adoulin.......... PS cant wait for the new update where they most likely will fix this issue plus many more!

[predatory]

I can't wait for Elder Scrolls online to be release, I hate WoW because it's a simplistic game, same with FFXIV, and I dont plan on renewing my account here until they straighten out this game, so that leaves me waiting for Elder Scrolls. I'm so glad I read through this post, and found out what SE said they weren't going to do with a game I pay money to play, it makes the decision to no pay to play much easier. Good thing I have the option to hit them in the wallet.

Great customer service and public relations you have SE

[Fynlar]

Who cares about clear > colorful anymore? They upgraded that and it's quick no matter what you do.

While yeah, it's usually pretty easy, I remember the last one I did took somewhere around 20 kills ;;

[bungiefanNA]

3-5 is not what I said.

Have you even followed the instructions? If the second one you pop isnt in the same mob "area" then it doesnt work.

Ill tell you what tell me a good free screen capture/ recording softwate and I will make a video right now!



http://ohsoft.net/product_ocam.php#new

oCam is good. You can define the area of the screen to record.

[Kormak]

http://ohsoft.net/product_ocam.php#new

oCam is good. You can define the area of the screen to record.

Thanks alot for this, really good program.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVYHP4SFVak&feature=youtu.be

Enjoy!

If you didnt believe me before you will probably just call luck on this but I have done it over 150 times so believe what you want.
I just wanted to help the community and get assaulted by people claiming I am wrong.

Hope you find this helpful everyone else.

Take Care

[Byrth]

Unfortunately for you, it seems to be much easier to disprove your theory than to prove it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vCBtsB0JF4

If I hadn't thought it would be so easy to disprove I probably wouldn't have bothered walking out there. Next time you want to make up a voodoo procedure please remember to claim a sub-100% success rate.

PS. the thing that gives you timestamps has a built-in video recording function.

[Fynlar]

^ rofl

So again, I must reiterate my earlier question: What is it about this thread that's attracting all the "voodoo procedures" as it were?

[Kormak]

Well I can only appologise.

It works for me everytime so I am not quite sure what to say.
I have no issue with the way you did it only that you had 100 tp from somewhere.

Anyway, perhaps I am just the luckiest man on the planet and beat the RNG every time.

I can only say it has helped me speed up colourless souls to no end and if it doesn't work for you then I cannot help you.

As for the T3's I will take that to my grave :)

[Fynlar]

Anyway, perhaps I am just the luckiest man on the planet and beat the RNG every time.

Yeah, I'm sure that's it :rolleyes:

[Demon6324236]

Ill be honest, I think the VNM system is general just sucks and should be removed. The randomness of upgrades, the fact monsters are invisible and run around faster than we can, the fact a T3 breaks every time no matter what... I hate it all, very stupid system in my opinion, but oh well...