Beastmaster: Will I ever charm again?

[Xilk]

Beastmaster is a fantastic job! I love the design. thank you very much for the improvements in the new Jug pets as well.....

However I must ask: Will I ever charm again? Will there every be meaningful mobs to charm and use in combat? It feels like there is a huge divide between what the job was for levels 1~75 and what it is now 75+.

there are so many mobs that really feel like they should be charm-able, such as bugards, buffalo, Roc... There are even NM or NPC Beastmaster who have these pets.

[Draylo]

There are job threads...... :/

[Xilk]

job threads are not suggestion threads.

[Draylo]

This section is for site feedback :rolleyes:

[Xilk]

The purpose of this forum is for players to submit feedback and suggestions on FINAL FANTASY XI, the FINAL FANTASY XI Official Website, the FINAL FANTASY XI Forum and other official websites concerning FINAL FANTASY XI. In order for us to be able to offer a better service, we would like to hear your opinions.

Read. Don't just skim :D I saw this exact argument in another thread earlier.

[Ferris]

This section is for site feedback :rolleyes:

Wrong (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/94-Welcome-to-Forum-Feedback-and-Suggestions!). :cool:

[Wade]

I agree with Xilk, they say that it is feedback for multiple services. Not just the site.

[Draylo]

Oh dear me :(

[Limecat]

I've been rolling this one over in my head a lot the last several months as well. Basically, we've got this abundance of CHR on the emp armor that we don't actually have a use for. We can't charm the stuff inside Abyssea, and if we've got the armor clearly have the add-ons and don't have any reason to be fighting or charming the welfare exp mobs that were added for the Abyssea-less. I'd like to think this points, in a roundabout way, to some major new content as-yet unknown to the player base. I'd love to see another full expansion, since there's still so much of the game world we hear about but have never seen.

Oh, as for charming greater mobs, they did address that years ago in some dev comment or another. This is a very rough paraphrasing, but... The early beta versions allowed it, but the problem ended up being that greater mobs in general are a lot stronger for their level than the smaller critters, have nastier TP moves, etc. They didn't want to weaken the rocs and morbols and whatnot, so they just made them uncharmable instead. Wouldn't mind getting a jug for mini versions of some of them, though, and they could ramp back the stats as well as cut out some of the stronger TP stuff as needed.

[Yopop]

You guys need to understand what your reading. The post was moved to the appropriate section so thus the section you were posting was for Site Feedback only. :)

As for mobs that can be Charmed.

If people leave Abyssea for awhile they'll notice there are DC/EM/T mobs for level 90 BST in all kinds of areas. Tav Safehold, Mount Z, Sky, etc

I soloed from 1-90 on BST outside of Abyssea and there are plenty of charm-able mobs based on the appropriate zone.

[Xilk]

You guys need to understand what your reading. The post was moved to the appropriate section so thus the section you were posting was for Site Feedback only. :)

As for mobs that can be Charmed.

If people leave Abyssea for awhile they'll notice there are DC/EM/T mobs for level 90 BST in all kinds of areas. Tav Safehold, Mount Z, Sky, etc

I soloed from 1-90 on BST outside of Abyssea and there are plenty of charm-able mobs based on the appropriate zone.

Yeah, if you notice around 7:15 AM EST they also added a new clarification on the description for that section clarifying it. So, it was their intention... but it was mislabeled.

Regarding their response to greater mobs not being charm-able in the past.... That was then, this is now. things have changed considerably don't you think?

[Glamdring]

I just think a lizard is a lizard, it should be charmable in Abyssea or out. Jugs are not really intended to be our main pets, at least they weren't before Abyssea. Part of the challenge of playing Beast was the possibility of a mischarm. That's really gone now. The reason beast was such a potent soloer was that no matter how tough an EM mob was, a charmed EM mob was just as tough and gave you the survivability to solo almost anywhere. I really don't like that NOW end-game a ninja is a better soloer than beastmaster as an example. I leveled beast in the 1st place so that I could play without having to wait on forming a party in almost any circumstance; it's a good thing my dancer is also 90 so that I can still solo end-game.

[Yopop]

Xilk, jeeze dude just accept you were wrong and you correct people ended up blowing up in your face.

And I'm not sure what you are speaking about past and present. The mobs I listed in my post are mobs that are in the game now.

I think people need to stop living in Abyssea and explore the zones, they've added mobs all over that are EM to VT+ to 90 , just have to get out of Abyssea and explore.

[Xilk]

Xilk, jeeze dude just accept you were wrong and you correct people ended up blowing up in your face.

And I'm not sure what you are speaking about past and present. The mobs I listed in my post are mobs that are in the game now.

I think people need to stop living in Abyssea and explore the zones, they've added mobs all over that are EM to VT+ to 90 , just have to get out of Abyssea and explore.


As far as past or present, I mean when they would not allow charming greater mobs, at the time they answered that question they felt the mobs were too powerful to allow bst to use them. Game balance has changed considerably since that time. I think it is up for re-evaluation.

Sure I was incorrect... it was labeled wrong. It was contradictory. It was ambiguous. They clarified it.... not sure what you are getting at.

.... I've explored all the zones and new higher level mobs they've added with each level cap increase. I've made a few posts on ZAM specifically pointing out the uses of these higher level charmed mobs for bst. I used the new Sea Monks in Arappago to farm blu magic spells /bst. Its quite clear however that these mobs have limited utility, they are a novelty, they exist only to make it possible to level outside abyssea. They are a legal requirement so that the game is still remotely viable at high level so that all players are not required to purchase the abyssea addons.

Charm-able mobs were effectively removed from top-level content long before abyssea and the level cap increases. It is a stark contrast in the job from 1-75 vs 75+.

[Virtue]

I wonder if the people who are clamoring to be able to Charm again are the same people who melee in their +CHR gear. My inventory praises the day they got rid of Charming, as that means there is that much less gear to carry around.

I do have fond memories of charming mobs and pet swapping. But I definitely don't miss mis-charms, extremely limited selections of XP camps, and people stealing my pets.

I also think you guys might be missing the point. The problem with charmable mobs is that, due to game mechanics, other jobs are better BSTs than BSTs at high levels. RDMs, BLMs, NINs, DNCs, even CORs that solo things in Abyssea could go /BST and throw charmed pets at NMs to supplement damage. They'd be more effective than BST mains due to the other tools at their disposal. As it stands, jug pets make BSTs unique.

Also- what makes your pet awesome in Abyssea is your atma. Are you going to make the atmas you're using extend to mobs you charm? That makes the problem I mentioned above that much worse.

[Xilk]

I wonder if the people who are clamoring to be able to Charm again are the same people who melee in their +CHR gear. My inventory praises the day they got rid of Charming, as that means there is that much less gear to carry around.

I do have fond memories of charming mobs and pet swapping. But I definitely don't miss mis-charms, extremely limited selections of XP camps, and people stealing my pets.

I also think you guys might be missing the point. The problem with charmable mobs is that, due to game mechanics, other jobs are better BSTs than BSTs at high levels. RDMs, BLMs, NINs, DNCs, even CORs that solo things in Abyssea could go /BST and throw charmed pets at NMs to supplement damage. They'd be more effective than BST mains due to the other tools at their disposal. As it stands, jug pets make BSTs unique.

Also- what makes your pet awesome in Abyssea is your atma. Are you going to make the atmas you're using extend to mobs you charm? That makes the problem I mentioned above that much worse.

if pet lost charm, then it would lose my atma bonus. :P
Sure I melee in my CHR gear? who wouldn't?? Ferine Quijotes +2 Ferine Cabasset +2.. Ferine Mantle, Ferine Necklace...

the point is 12 second recast for pet vs 4:10s.

[Virtue]

In mentioning the CHR bonuses on AF3+2 gear (and not everyone has that), you bring up a good point. For charms you don't want to fail, you'll be stacking CHR. For duration, you'll be stacking +Charm. That's even more gear to carry around. I personally like leaving stuff like AF2 head in storage.

The point I was trying to make is that some people aim to be perfectionists. What I like about FFXI is that there is usually a "best" option for each gear slot. Once they got rid of Charm, it freed up a lot of room in my inventory.

I like the nostalgia of using Charm, but I'd be more than happy if they kept it on the backburner and just increased the variety and utility of jug pets.

[Xilk]

In mentioning the CHR bonuses on AF3+2 gear (and not everyone has that), you bring up a good point. For charms you don't want to fail, you'll be stacking CHR. For duration, you'll be stacking +Charm. That's even more gear to carry around. I personally like leaving stuff like AF2 head in storage.

The point I was trying to make is that some people aim to be perfectionists. What I like about FFXI is that there is usually a "best" option for each gear slot. Once they got rid of Charm, it freed up a lot of room in my inventory.

I like the nostalgia of using Charm, but I'd be more than happy if they kept it on the backburner and just increased the variety and utility of jug pets.

I think reward set became much more important after we have to use jug pets. Thats more slots cuz its not chr, its mnd and we have fewer overlap pieces w/ mnd+ gear.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Just because a job can solo, doesn't mean that it should. I personing only ever lvled BST solo from 1-10, that of course is because you never pt in those lvls. Then spent the rest of my time doing more damage in parties then the best equipped elf WARs, plus my jug damage on top of that.

Oh to the topic at hand though. The whole "never charm again" issue is generated by abyssea itself. SE never thought that it would have been such a major game breaker(Since in a typical move, this was thier last-ditch-effort, while betting everything on FFXIV.). SE need to sit down and figure out how fo "fix" life outside of abyssea and/or inside abyssea so that regular zones can be useable again.

[Fabby]

Keep in mind, they (Square Enix) never intended for any job to solo in this game originally. Just because the playerbase found ways to do so doesn't mean its the intent for the job. Look at the way the job abilites are set to the player. the Leave command is level 35 for heavens sake. Try playing a pup or smn without being able to dismiss your pet.

As I start leveling my second BST, originally I want to experience leveling one in our "new world", with FoV and exp increases. So far, not having the need to leave Qufim Island until 40 is interesting, simply because I earn page exp on tip of 100xp per EP mob. That 100xp is what we use to shoot for defeating T mobs. I use jug pets, and just go to town. Subbing NIN or DNC to keep cured up, its so much a different ballgame then from years ago. Hell, I even see party invites easily and daily.

To be on topic, will we ever charm again? I cannot see why we would when we are given jugs that can do 4x the damage as us. Does me using a jug and not charming not make me a BST? Sure does. Just not the BST from years ago. Just like Abyssea makes getting XP easy unlike years ago.

But I will go on record, I am not a huge fan of the Abyssea stuff. I enjoyed some quick levels, but I don't do the quests, NM's, I have no atma's, I have no Emp Armor. I don't care if xy job is better than me, can solo better than me, and has better equipment than me. It's not the game I play.

I am happy with BST. Charming if I want, or using jugs.

[Panthera]

The very thing I liked about playing Beast was that it wasn't just a pet job; it could control monsters in field areas and make them fight one another, making for gameplay that was like no other job. EXPing this way was a nice break from leveling other jobs the tradition way. The way things are now, there actually isn't a fundamental difference between Beastmaster and every other Pet Job, what with the huge emphasis on Jug Pets. Perhaps camps in future updates can take this into account.

[Jile]

I agree, I miss the old school play on BST. While there are indeed some charmable mobs that have been added at higher levels - I'd be glad if any new expansions SE makes (like for 90->99), could be used without any jug pets.

Anyone that played BST outside aby, soloing to 75 has warm memories of the sapling-bird camp in the mire, or the leech camp vs birds in thickets, great exp camps for solo BST. Ultimately I think its that, the OP is really missing and while there are a few new camps available for a high lvl BST, its just not quite the same.

SE, I do love the new jugs - don't get me wrong... but I'd also like to get more use out of my +CHR set, when the next expansion/areas come out. (plz) lol.

[SNK]

I do miss having the abliity to Charm shit in Abyessa but it doesn't impact the gameplay that much in the zone for me. I just finished my first stage on Farsha and truthfully I'm having a lot of fun trying to make a solid DD build for the job again so anything that gives me more inventory space to load up on DD gear instead of overkilling it with Charm is a good thing imo.

[Superchicken]

BST was one of my favorite jobs. I spent alot of time and effort on building the superb charm setup, then came abyssea that imo ruined BST. With abyssea everyone became a BST cause all it requires now is to throw a jug pet out. Hardly my definition of BST. BST is about charming mobs and since the endgame material now is pretty much abyssea and we can't charm anything in there BST has become meh. I hope they plan to add some new content for 91+ that brings the true spirit back to BST with charming

[Xilk]

I love the finer level of control they've been adding for jug pets. BST is all about controlling the pet, and the finer control, the better, imo.

Charm was being taken away long before abyssea, abyssea just makes it the most blatent because most the mobs are normal stuff we used to charm. There are various mobs in dynamis and limbus that should be charmable. I think anything in the main animal ecosystems should be charmable.

shucks, if a bst MOB can charm me, why can't I charm it? If MOB bst's are immune to charm, then I should be also.

One way or the other, I think it shows a blatent castration of a beastmaster's power for MOB's to be immune to our charm while w are susceptible to theirs. :P

[Nattack]

After a lengthy post I made about how the old ways of bst were more fun, I auto-logged out and lost all that.

So I will give a skimmed down version,
way back when a FFXI Representative - sometime in 04/05, had posted on Alla asking for information on how to improve the game. Asking Alla for this information was clearly a bad Idea, as almost every post had said "Nerf beastmaster" in some shape or form - because we MIGHT be dangerous. This brought about the invention of Mob Depop, a virtuous by design, but ultimately gamechanging downgrade for beastmaster - I might add that it was poorly executed, as the way we played bst involving bringing some mobs from one side of a zone to the other, and using leave to make it quickly heal so we could get some decent solo/party exp. I had dropped my line in, and insisted that instead of the monster depopping, we could make the monster go docile until it reaches its leash zone.

This also killed MPK, which I may be alone on this, but I found it to be lots of fun (not that I am admitting to have done it. maybe. kinda, sorta) it was loads of fun at serket, cassie. etc, to drag a great deal of monsters to your opposing parties fight, in our case it was usually RMT who stole monsters (literally steal, as if I recall, there was a bug or exploit way back when in which you could claim an NM from people in an alliance. I recall this happening at Serket).

beyond that, our AF3 has all this CHR on it, but we have little opportunity to use it, by the time we actually can use it there is no reason to charm things - it may be slightly useful in a few past zones, im thinking the northlands. I'm hoping updates in the future will be more pet-job friendly, introducing new pets for us to charm, NM's for us to fight, perhaps in new or revamped areas. A pattern I've been seeing in the last few expansions (WoTG and on).

I know, or at least hypothesized that most areas weren't exactly designed for beastmaster, as usually mob level ranges are far too unreliable for solo in the FFXI/RoZ zones. It seems that, however, FFXI Team since CoP has been afraid of beastmaster and pet job potential, as beastmaster was ultimately useless in places like Sea, most of Sky, and especially Salvage. Salvage itself had gear for all jobs, but became far too elitest to allow any other jobs but a select few inside.

I don't exactly mind levelling other jobs, but I don't feel that any event should exclude any certain job by design. It's just too hard to take certain jobs inside salvage (old, i havent done salvage since 09) and still be effective. There was nothing charmable in Sea, Limbus, and only flamingos in Sky. When your only job was BST back then, it's kind of a bummer to be constantly overlooked.

now, that's a rant from 04-09, now we have abyssea, but It's still not quite right. Now we're dead simple WAR's with a pet. It's almost as straight forward as MNK party wise.
I enjoyed soloing on bst, it was challenging and tons of fun. And while I can still do it, sort of, I cant make use of all those old macros, and 5 years of gathering BST AF1+1 gear that I worked so hard for. Given how solo and duo friendly the game is these days for jobs that arent pet jobs, we all deserve our spoils. It's not like BST solo was ever easy, after all.

I guess what I want is some new zones with FFXI's mechanics preserved from middle2004. with tough, unforgiving, but highly rewarding nm's. mobs that don't despawn that we can carry across the zone, aggro, being hit from AoE from out of party hecticness that I so crave from the old days.

[Superchicken]

After a lengthy post I made about how the old ways of bst were more fun, I auto-logged out and lost all that.

So I will give a skimmed down version,
way back when a FFXI Representative - sometime in 04/05, had posted on Alla asking for information on how to improve the game. Asking Alla for this information was clearly a bad Idea, as almost every post had said "Nerf beastmaster" in some shape or form - because we MIGHT be dangerous. This brought about the invention of Mob Depop, a virtuous by design, but ultimately gamechanging downgrade for beastmaster - I might add that it was poorly executed, as the way we played bst involving bringing some mobs from one side of a zone to the other, and using leave to make it quickly heal so we could get some decent solo/party exp. I had dropped my line in, and insisted that instead of the monster depopping, we could make the monster go docile until it reaches its leash zone.

This also killed MPK, which I may be alone on this, but I found it to be lots of fun (not that I am admitting to have done it. maybe. kinda, sorta) it was loads of fun at serket, cassie. etc, to drag a great deal of monsters to your opposing parties fight, in our case it was usually RMT who stole monsters (literally steal, as if I recall, there was a bug or exploit way back when in which you could claim an NM from people in an alliance. I recall this happening at Serket).

beyond that, our AF3 has all this CHR on it, but we have little opportunity to use it, by the time we actually can use it there is no reason to charm things - it may be slightly useful in a few past zones, im thinking the northlands. I'm hoping updates in the future will be more pet-job friendly, introducing new pets for us to charm, NM's for us to fight, perhaps in new or revamped areas. A pattern I've been seeing in the last few expansions (WoTG and on).

I know, or at least hypothesized that most areas weren't exactly designed for beastmaster, as usually mob level ranges are far too unreliable for solo in the FFXI/RoZ zones. It seems that, however, FFXI Team since CoP has been afraid of beastmaster and pet job potential, as beastmaster was ultimately useless in places like Sea, most of Sky, and especially Salvage. Salvage itself had gear for all jobs, but became far too elitest to allow any other jobs but a select few inside.

I don't exactly mind levelling other jobs, but I don't feel that any event should exclude any certain job by design. It's just too hard to take certain jobs inside salvage (old, i havent done salvage since 09) and still be effective. There was nothing charmable in Sea, Limbus, and only flamingos in Sky. When your only job was BST back then, it's kind of a bummer to be constantly overlooked.

now, that's a rant from 04-09, now we have abyssea, but It's still not quite right. Now we're dead simple WAR's with a pet. It's almost as straight forward as MNK party wise.
I enjoyed soloing on bst, it was challenging and tons of fun. And while I can still do it, sort of, I cant make use of all those old macros, and 5 years of gathering BST AF1+1 gear that I worked so hard for. Given how solo and duo friendly the game is these days for jobs that arent pet jobs, we all deserve our spoils. It's not like BST solo was ever easy, after all.

I guess what I want is some new zones with FFXI's mechanics preserved from middle2004. with tough, unforgiving, but highly rewarding nm's. mobs that don't despawn that we can carry across the zone, aggro, being hit from AoE from out of party hecticness that I so crave from the old days.

You make my point exactly. I spent all this time and effort making full af+1 and full relic+1 and acquiring the top charm set to use because when lvl 75 was the cap there was no jug pet that could compare to a charming a VT mob you could actually keep charmed for a good while without using 2hour. Post 75 killed BST imo. Like i've said before, abyssea brought on the want to be BST's. Everyone has 90 bst now cause hey you can take any job 30+ to 90 in no time inabyssea. And all bst does now is throw a jug pet out. that's hardly playing bst imo. BST is about charming those pets and scramblign around for your next pet while your current one is fighting and about to die. Trying to move about mobs that will aggro you while your looking for that next pet. Thats bst. I love watching BST's with weak charm gear struggle to charm mobs and then walk up right next to them and charm it first attempt. I took pride in doing stuff with other bst and saying "go charm that VT over there, don't worry i'll back you up if you mischarm"

[Luvbunny]

All SE has to do is to make any jug pets the same level as your level only in Abyssea, that should solve the problem. If I am not mistaken, all the hp+mp buffs also applied to your pets, and the same goes to atmas, similar to what summoner's avatar? If this is the case, then you have one very powerful pet that is summonable every 5 minutes.

[Superchicken]

All SE has to do is to make any jug pets the same level as your level only in Abyssea, that should solve the problem. If I am not mistaken, all the hp+mp buffs also applied to your pets, and the same goes to atmas, similar to what summoner's avatar? If this is the case, then you have one very powerful pet that is summonable every 5 minutes.

your pets dont get your cruor buffs just your atma

[Chocobits]

I think George Michael might have something to say about this:

I feel soo sore
As I dump this macro to the floor
As my charm set dies, it's really no surprise..
With TEARS in my EYES, I tell my light staff "GOOD BYYYYYE!"

Ohhh I'm never gonna CHARM again!
This gimped JA's worse than it's ever been.
Though it's easy to pretend
That it sometimes Binds..

I SHOULD'VE known better than to CHARM again
This BIND effect don't PROC on NMs
So I'm never gonna charm again
Because of Abyssea

A moment of silence for Charm.. and my really terrible compositions..

[Kaeoni]

Look on the bright side, you can still charm kite Kirin~ yipee!

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Look on the bright side, you can still charm kite Kirin~ yipee!With my +72eva! Whooo!

[Bookong]

I think George Michael might have something to say about this:

I feel soo sore
As I dump this macro to the floor
As my charm set dies, it's really no surprise..
With TEARS in my EYES, I tell my light staff "GOOD BYYYYYE!"

Ohhh I'm never gonna CHARM again!
This gimped JA's worse than it's ever been.
Though it's easy to pretend
That it sometimes Binds..

I SHOULD'VE known better than to CHARM again
This BIND effect don't PROC on NMs
So I'm never gonna charm again
Because of Abyssea

A moment of silence for Charm.. and my really terrible compositions..

*-* BLOODY AWESOME!

[Arguss]

For me bst was a cheap class. I do love the new jugs, don't think anyone will disagree with that. But i do agree the charm job ability isn't used any more any pet that would compare to the new juags you can't charm. I would like to see charmable mobs in abyssea and other areas

[Olor]

yeah bring on the charmable mobs! I haven't done Abyssea yet but making bst 75+ all about jugs just makes it really expensive and takes away a lot of what it means to be a bst.

I just got to 51 today (first ever limit break) and as someone who is grinding bst up on the outside, it really does seem like a shame that charm is pointless inside abyssea.

[Xilk]

yeah bring on the charmable mobs! I haven't done Abyssea yet but making bst 75+ all about jugs just makes it really expensive and takes away a lot of what it means to be a bst.

I just got to 51 today (first ever limit break) and as someone who is grinding bst up on the outside, it really does seem like a shame that charm is pointless inside abyssea.


charming was dead before abyssea and the level cap increase. Dynamis, Limbus, Einherjar, Nyzul, Sea, at least 1 zone in sky had something charmable...
Abyssea just makes the contrast painfully blatent. Its full of TONS of mobs. They respawn quickly, they are everywhere, and most of them are normal mobs.... and we cannnot charm them at all...

[Cream_Soda]

job threads are not suggestion threads.
OP was a question, not a suggestion

[Gotterdammerung]

Charm is being weened out. Its a balance thing and its been happening for a while now. As the lvls increase the monsters that must be created to challenge the players grow exponentially in power. Having an ability to make these monsters fight for you rapidly becomes overpowered. As it stands, even now with just jug pets there is very little bst can't solo. If charm was allowed in abyssea, instantly everything would not only be soloable, but be extremely easy to solo. Heres a good example. Bukhis. An NM that is regarded as un-soloable by a bst (not including brew) would instantly become a joke when he ran into an army of handy nearby bats.

It just isnt balanced to have a job that will eventually (by 99) be able to throw 10k hp local fauna endlessly at an NM until it gives up.

Luckily, instead of just taking it away from us, they gave us a very needed and useful boost to our jug pets. I think they chose jug pets because they can better control the stats and abilities available to us.

In my opinion OP, no you will not ever charm again in an endgame setting. If u miss the charm playstyle there is still outlets for that desire via the new monsters added with each update in old zones. I personally visit these places occasionally for nostalgia's sake. But i dont predict charm being valuable in any event of real importance. I use it as a hate tool and thats about all its good for in endgame.

[Haglaz]

how about getting a rare/ex "empty" jug. On that can be filled by using charm on an aby mob, (with a normal jug pet out to take up the damage) filling the jug to say 5-10 charges. Then to be able to use that rare/ex jug to crowd control mobs around NM's or such in aby. Eh just a thought, would need more details but I think it's a start of the bst job being more then just a warrior with a pet.

my two gil...

[Xilk]

how about getting a rare/ex "empty" jug. On that can be filled by using charm on an aby mob, (with a normal jug pet out to take up the damage) filling the jug to say 5-10 charges. Then to be able to use that rare/ex jug to crowd control mobs around NM's or such in aby. Eh just a thought, would need more details but I think it's a start of the bst job being more then just a warrior with a pet.

my two gil...
There's another thread for that. No need to derail this one to make all the threads talk about 1 thing.

[Flunklesnarkin]

It would be nice if they could come up with *some* use for charm

At least make it useful for something hah...

How about lengthening the bind effect of charm...

or adding some sort of debuff effect to charm... magic def down maybe? ... some sort of addle effect? ... more susceptible to sleep?

I would love to be able to charm anything and everything again... and maybe we will get the opportunity again if the game ever moves outside of abyssea...

A few additional effects to charm I could see being possible though.

[Gotterdammerung]

Personally, I would like to see the charm bind become more reliable, especially on NMs.

Too many things are flat out immune to it. I mean its a .5-3 second bind effect, why is SE scared of letting this land more?

[Coldbrand]

I don't understand why buggards and buffalos aren't charmable at all.

[Gotterdammerung]

Because they have googly eyes. I find most things with googly eyes are not charmable.

[Visari]

I dont think i have seen one person mention anything about CHR being one of the modifiers for Primal Rend. I'm just saying

[Gotterdammerung]

I dont think i have seen one person mention anything about CHR being one of the modifiers for Primal Rend. I'm just saying

Why would you? its a thread about Charm not chr.

[blowfin]

and lolPrimal Rend

[Glamdring]

This post has been around since the 1st day of the forum, no crown. I think we have our answer, the developers don't care about this, and the answer is "no, you won't".

[Daniel_Hatcher]

This post has been around since the 1st day of the forum, no crown. I think we have our answer, the developers don't care about this, and the answer is "no, you won't".

They don't care about any of the job forums, the only post a developer has replied/posted to are the Welcome ones.

[Glamdring]

The reason they don't care is because everyone seems to be proposing stuff to make their character play in god mode. Seriously, the dancer forum is just stupid, almost every post there would kill any balance in the game. This is simply a very reasonable request. Our core ability is charm and yet we haven't really used it (maybe NM claim?) in 15 levels; sorry, but I see a problem there. Judging by the lack of +charm stuff on all the gear added since the level-cap increase it looks like we are now to be all jug all the time from 76 on.

[Xilk]

The reason they don't care is because everyone seems to be proposing stuff to make their character play in god mode. Seriously, the dancer forum is just stupid, almost every post there would kill any balance in the game. This is simply a very reasonable request. Our core ability is charm and yet we haven't really used it (maybe NM claim?) in 15 levels; sorry, but I see a problem there. Judging by the lack of +charm stuff on all the gear added since the level-cap increase it looks like we are now to be all jug all the time from 76 on.

its not the lack of +charm. there is plenty of chr gear if we want it. Its the lack of charmable mobs. 1/2 the stuff they added in the new pockets of "exp" mobs for non-abyssea leveling 76+ are charmable.... and they might rarely be useful. but they block anything useful from being charmable..

[Gotterdammerung]

Charm is Godmode. Its not a skill that scales well. If you could charm unhindered right now, NOTHING in the game would be safe from a beastmaster solo. And believe it or not it would continue to get even stronger. By 99 charm, unhindered, would break the game and then put it back together so it could break it again. Charm is the Chuck Norris of job abilities. Of course they have to regulate it.

[Coldbrand]

Charm is Godmode. Its not a skill that scales well. If you could charm unhindered right now, NOTHING in the game would be safe from a beastmaster solo. And believe it or not it would continue to get even stronger. By 99 charm, unhindered, would break the game and then put it back together so it could break it again. Charm is the Chuck Norris of job abilities. Of course they have to regulate it.

Thanks for explaining your argument instead of using it as an opportunity to spout out an annoying dead meme.

[Flunklesnarkin]

ehh.. I don't think giving charm a use... would make bst "god mode"

I think giving charm some form of debuff effect would make it useful without overpowering it.

[Alukat]

ehh.. I don't think giving charm a use... would make bst "god mode"

I think giving charm some form of debuff effect would make it useful without overpowering it.

so u want to debuff your own pet?

[Agetos]

he means debuffing the mob we're fighting. debuffing your own pet.. lawl

[nobodyhere]

bst should be able to charm any mob thats charmable type in any area.
as for soloing out side of aby that just being stupid.
all endgame in aby and it take more pet pdt gear and top notch skill with jugpets to solo.
but all and all bst need to have charm option cause people dont seem to have reasonable pricing option.

[nobodyhere]

chr and mab chr to a point like 130 chr be enough rest has to be mab work really well my favorite sc

[Glamdring]

The reason bst seems so powerful is that it was the original job designed to solo, although we could party if asked. The core of that soloing is charm; I'm not wowing any DD with my stunning Axe numbers here. Voidwatch seems to indicate an intent to move back outside Abyssea where traditional job roles will be more in evidence, so hopefully we can charm again. I was merely pointing out that SE not putting any charm+ on the 76-90 gear seems to indicate that they don't intend for charm to be workable in the new end-game, a hint if you will.

And charm is not god-mode! Beast was designed to be able to solo most content from level 1 on, in fact beast was often hinderred in an XP party due to a lack of pets that were DC-EM at camp and forced to be a 2nd class melee if you didn't have jugs yet. It was so those of us logging in with 3 hours of available time could actually do something in the 2.5 hours it took to find a level-appropriate party instead of being bored stiff seeking/searching in Jeuno.

[blowfin]

Voidwatch seems to indicate an intent to move back outside Abyssea where traditional job roles will be more in evidence, so hopefully we can charm again. I was merely pointing out that SE not putting any charm+ on the 76-90 gear seems to indicate that they don't intend for charm to be workable in the new end-game, a hint if you will.

Voidwatch looks like its going to be BC type content so i doubt well be charming much in there. Also, the reason theres not going to be much more charm+ gear is there is already plenty of it available.

[Gotterdammerung]

charm is not god-mode! Beast was designed to be able to solo most content from level 1 on, in fact beast was often hinderred in an XP party due to a lack of pets that were DC-EM at camp and forced to be a 2nd class melee if you didn't have jugs yet. It was so those of us logging in with 3 hours of available time could actually do something in the 2.5 hours it took to find a level-appropriate party instead of being bored stiff seeking/searching in Jeuno.

Ok so in a thread about the future of charming, you bring up that we had to charm at lvl 1?

Yeh well charm isnt broken at lvl 1. It is broken at lvl 99. SE has been moving away from charm as an endgame option for years. I'm telling you why. Charm doesnt scale.

taking control of something designed to be fought by a few lvl 1's is not as threatening as taking control of something designed to be fought by a few lvl 99's.

Hell, i would personally love to have charm back. Id abuse the hell out of infinite fodder.

[Reauland]

Because they have googly eyes. I find most things with googly eyes are not charmable.

I just spit Mountain Dew all over myself XD I christen this the Gotterdammerung Googly Eye Principle, or GGEP for short.

Let's not forget, folks. Not all the new content's gonna be abyssea(or at least that's my bet). I'm on board with a lot of my Pld, Drk, and Rng friends who are hoping for new content in some old, [Familiar] places.

[Dethard]

Well I for one wish they would let us know if they plan to let us charm for any of the future endgame content. If they are not then what's the point of us having +CHR on our AF3 when it does not help us.

[Glamdring]

/dnc? actually, the GoV will allow you to charm, no idea on Voidwatch as I have't tried it yet.

[Xilk]

/dnc? actually, the GoV will allow you to charm, no idea on Voidwatch as I have't tried it yet.

Voidwatch you lose your pet when the battle starts... but you make a good point on GoV. There are some nice big NM's for charming in GoV. Also, I actually saw that when scars was added, they put charmables on Vozold Isle in Mount Zhayolm. I knew there were new mobs there, I've seen the fish and crabs, but I hadn't been to Vozold since then.

It was really irritating being there before, but w/ level 88 charmable pets there... its a playground. Zahak? Wamoura? just rip'em apart w/ a pet who doesn't care how much fire they unleash on it.

[Sortis]

Keep in mind, they (Square Enix) never intended for any job to solo in this game originally. Just because the playerbase found ways to do so doesn't mean its the intent for the job. Look at the way the job abilites are set to the player. the Leave command is level 35 for heavens sake. Try playing a pup or smn without being able to dismiss your pet.

As I start leveling my second BST, originally I want to experience leveling one in our "new world", with FoV and exp increases. So far, not having the need to leave Qufim Island until 40 is interesting, simply because I earn page exp on tip of 100xp per EP mob. That 100xp is what we use to shoot for defeating T mobs. I use jug pets, and just go to town. Subbing NIN or DNC to keep cured up, its so much a different ballgame then from years ago. Hell, I even see party invites easily and daily.

To be on topic, will we ever charm again? I cannot see why we would when we are given jugs that can do 4x the damage as us. Does me using a jug and not charming not make me a BST? Sure does. Just not the BST from years ago. Just like Abyssea makes getting XP easy unlike years ago.

But I will go on record, I am not a huge fan of the Abyssea stuff. I enjoyed some quick levels, but I don't do the quests, NM's, I have no atma's, I have no Emp Armor. I don't care if xy job is better than me, can solo better than me, and has better equipment than me. It's not the game I play.

I am happy with BST. Charming if I want, or using jugs.

This person is my hero. lol

[Raka]

I think George Michael might have something to say about this:

I feel soo sore
As I dump this macro to the floor
As my charm set dies, it's really no surprise..
With TEARS in my EYES, I tell my light staff "GOOD BYYYYYE!"

Ohhh I'm never gonna CHARM again!
This gimped JA's worse than it's ever been.
Though it's easy to pretend
That it sometimes Binds..

I SHOULD'VE known better than to CHARM again
This BIND effect don't PROC on NMs
So I'm never gonna charm again
Because of Abyssea

A moment of silence for Charm.. and my really terrible compositions..

Roflmao~! :D

[Sharnak]

may "Charm II" for charm any unable to charm one (sure not count nm or beastmen or undead) =) may with long recast and lower chance of success.
It just fact that beast that bst can't charm is just it too strong mob. not about any of natural of mob. (i wonder what else reason we can't
charm gnat, peiste, roc type bird, ect. it not like gnole that it halfbeast halfbeastmen. and all of that i dont think it all cleaver than
opoopo which we can charm.)

[SephYuyX]

xpost just because.

This is where SE is failing at BST.

Ive been playing BST for longer than this game has been out in NA, and SE just has no idea which direction theyre taking the job.

Jug pets are not BSTs main forte, Charm is. Adding new Jugs (worthwhile even)? Ok, thats cool. Making BST suck less in PTs by giving them access to heavy DD gear? Awesome. But why BST cant use their staple JA in Abyssea (or even back in Sea days) is beyond idiocy.

The charm mechanics really need to be redefined.

-I should be able to charm any current charmable family mob any charm them anywhere, firstly.
-SE should expand the range of charmable mobs. Goldfish in Sea, etc. Add some lvl 99 trait that lets you Charm undead, a JA that lets me charm Arcana, or something along those lines.
-I should be able to charm IT mobs, and be able to hold them for more than 1 minute. Make charming purposeful again by increasing Charm+ duration significantly.

Jugs were horrible a couple of years ago; low defense and would only last 30 mins. Now they take more hits and have a longer duration, which is great, but thats not what BST want.

The allure of BST was that they could control beasts. Why should I expend gil to buy a alchemistic pet, when I have a useful JA that can claim a mob right next to me?

However thats really hard to do when you cant claim ANY mob where current content has been for the last few years.

Fix Charm. Screw Jugs.

[Koroma]

Many have begged and pleaded with se to let us charm in abyessa but they seem content to ignore us. As for we will ever charm again unless se makes a new event with charmable mobs probably not.

[GailC]

I also think you guys might be missing the point. The problem with charmable mobs is that, due to game mechanics, other jobs are better BSTs than BSTs at high levels. RDMs, BLMs, NINs, DNCs, even CORs that solo things in Abyssea could go /BST and throw charmed pets at NMs to supplement damage. They'd be more effective than BST mains due to the other tools at their disposal. As it stands, jug pets make BSTs unique.

They still have to level their Beastmaster to cap (not just to 45) in order to make full use of the subjob, so I think that balances out. Anyone who has gone through 90 levels on beastmaster and then goes RDM/BST or DNC/BST is still a beastmaster in my mind.

With the addition of strong jugpets, though, that's a moot point. A charmed mob is strong, but the new Jugpets are nearly as strong, and the BST has greater control over it's behavior than a /Bst with a charmed pet. All in all, I think it balances out. Beastmaster is one of the few jobs I think they got right when it comes to subjob use, at least before Abyssea came around.

Although I wouldn't mind seeing some weaker jugpets that were All Jobs equipable..

[firelurker456]

Honestly... If we explore we can find charm camps... I mean I have seen a bunch of DC-VT mobs at 90 and lots of charmable mobs near them. And I always carry my Charm gear in my satchel for those days when I do feel like going out for a good ole charm fest. But honestly I do love the new jug pets.

[Kvana]

why would we want to charm agan anyways? we dont need to solo exp no more, nor we need charmable pets to solo NMs, were all good now that we got strong pets that we can control 100%. Unlike charmed pets you cant even choose what tp move you want it to make, i love bst as it is, only thing we want is TP transfer from pet to master (Self killchain all the time baby) :)

[Gotterdammerung]

I don't want to charm again. I don't need to solo exp anymore, nor do I need charmable pets to solo NMs. I am all good, now that I have strong pets that I can control 100%, unlike charmed pets, which don't even allow me to choose my pets TP move. I love bst as it is. The only thing I want for my bst is an abilty that allows me to transfer TP from pet to master (Self killchain all the time baby). ;)

The easiest way to spot when someone just jumps into a thread without reading the previous posts is when all the questions they ask have already been answered.

I took the liberty of changing your questions to statements and cleaning up your grammar a bit so your post could be a coherent contribution to the topic.

[Kvana]

The easiest way to spot when someone just jumps into a thread without reading the previous posts is when all the questions they ask have already been answered.

I took the liberty of changing your questions to statements and cleaning up your grammar a bit so your post could be a coherent contribution to the topic.

You couldnt be more right about every word you said :)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I took the liberty of changing your questions to statements and cleaning up your grammar a bit so your post could be a coherent contribution to the topic.Yet another case of simply ignoring/belittling someone who dissagrees with what you are saying instead of defending your standpoitn against it. If you want to charm something so badly, go book burn.

[Gotterdammerung]

Yet another case of simply ignoring/belittling someone who dissagrees with what you are saying instead of defending your standpoitn against it. If you want to charm something so badly, go book burn.

Why would i take the time to translate his post into a clear statement directly in opposition to my viewpoint, if i was just ignoring him?

What does book burning have to do with charm?

Why would i defend my points against his post? He did not make any new points. They were old points that i have already defended against.

Also, you either do not know the definition of belittle, or you do not understand the definition of belittle, or enough people have misunderstood the word causing its meaning to change. Pointing out someones shortcomings is not belittling them. If is saw you trip and i said "you suck at walking." I am not belittling you. I am just describing your general inability to put one foot in front of the other.

Belittling is when you take someones great accomplishment and you diminish that accomplishment. Here is an example of belittling. Tommy comes home and shows his mother his report card. "Look mom! I got all A+'s except for one B+ ;)" To which Tommy's mom replies, "Your Sister made all A+'s and has been accepted to Yale." Which leaves Tommy with nothing to say but, ":("

So anyway, congratulations on misreading, misunderstanding, and mislabeling the situation, yet again.